Brown Girls Do It Too - We Used To Be Besties...

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Poppy and Rubina are joined by content creator Salwa Aziz and actress Anoushka Chadha to talk about the heartbreak of a friendship ending. Does it hurt more than when a partner breaks up with you? Can you ever get closure? They dissect the ins and outs of friendships and why we should all start dating our friends... not in that way!Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. So who was that girl? It seemed like she knew you. Well we used to be friends. She's a Virgo and we were obsessed with Buffy. So what happened? The story will make me swear so best to give the warning first. This podcast contains strong language and adult content. When was the last time you had sex? Because when brown girls get down, the world tends to have a little something to say.

And we've got something to say right back. This is a podcast about sex, where we can't stop thinking about it, talking about it, and doing it, and doing it. It's a fucking weird, weird way to say it. Brown girls do it too.

I'm Robina, and the last time I fell out with a friend, I was 12, and we stopped talking to each other for one year. Wow. But our parents had already collectively booked a centre parks trip for us. I'm Poppy and the last time I fell out with a friend was which friend do you want? First falling out I had with a friend was when I was in college going into university. She was the OG ghost, she just ghosted me. I saw her on the 69 bus and I was like, let's call her Lucy. Lucy, Lucy! And she just did this with her hair and she just like hid her

hair and I was just like, and you know when you see it happening to you and you're like, oh my god, this is happening, it's happening. I've never tried to avoid you in public, but actually, I wonder if I could. Me? Do you know me? Brown Girls do it too. This is a Valentine's Day special episode, which is very exciting. Happy Valentine's Day to you. Happy Galentine's Day to you. Happy Galentine's Day to you, exactly. And obviously Valentine's Day is all about love, and love sometimes leads to heartbreak.

Yes it does. It does indeed. I love a breakup. Do you? Well I was dumped in a big way after a five year relationship, and it's like one of the best things that ever happened to me. Okay, fine. But at the time it's awful, you feel shit, you feel terrible. But really, we're talking about friendship breakups this episode. Yes, we're focusing on friendship platonic breakups. Yeah, which is almost a bit more painful, you know, when somebody, they're not even sleeping with you. They don't even fancy you. I know. It's just all about your personality. Your looks don't

even fucking count. There are no friends that you have that you're like, I'm friends with her because she's good looking. Exactly. Although, well, something to get into. Joining us to talk about the highs and lows of friendships is content creator Salwa Aziz and actress Anushka Chadha. Welcome to Brandy on 32.

Welcome to our studio. Welcome. Thank you for having us. So who wants to go first? When did you break up with your friend? How old were you? What happened? Were you on a 69 bus?

I wasn't on a 69 bus. Okay. Wish I was. I can't remember the first exact time, but I definitely fight with my best friends. They're my sisters. Okay. We fight. Are you doing that now?

Not for a while, but we can. I think my first friendship breakup which I actually don't care about like when I think about it I literally don't care but I had a girl that I was I went to all girls secondary school so we were all very close and you know I'd known this girl probably since I was in like reception I think definitely year three but I think reception and she got a boyfriend in year 11 and she basically just like turned on all of the girls. And she was like, you're all jealous of me because I've got a boyfriend.

And I on my life, I don't think I've ever not been jealous. She was like nothing. He was ill. He was so gross. He would comment on like his girlfriend's friends and be like, oh, she's too fat, she's too this, and she just let him. So I was genuinely like, I was the only one in my friendship group who said, that's not okay. And I was like, literally, me and your girlfriend,

not me but one of my other friends, I was like, we wear the same size clothes. I was like, I don't know who you think that's an insult going to. And then she was just kept defending him when we just stopped being friends. And then she was like, Oh, like everyone turned on me. But it was obviously because of, I think it was her first boyfriend. So she just went a bit crazy, but still not acceptable. Like, I'm sorry. How old was, how old were you guys again?

We were 16. So like, you're not, you're not actually, you're not that young. You do understand like what's okay and what's not. But you know, hormones, but hormones, understand like what's okay and what's not. But you know. But hormones. But hormones. But hormones. But that was one I didn't care about.

And like even now when I think about it, I could not care less. Wow. Which friendship record did you care about? So when I was in uni, my uni happened over COVID. So I was there for the first few months. And then I was living in halls because I went to the University of Nottingham.

So when I was there, I became really close to like this girl and there was a couple of us, but we were really close, we were like inseparable. And then COVID happened, everyone came home, different parts of London. And then when we all went back after COVID, we had like the third year or something. I was still kind of like nervous about COVID

so I used to come home, but we were completely fine, really close, again, like so similar, like genuinely, I was like, I don't think I've ever gotten this close to someone so quickly. And then she just stopped talking to me and I was in London. No reason. I don't know, because she's still like, even now to this day, like sometimes she was maybe every like a year or six months, she'll like check in with some other uni friends, but she just like stopped replying to me. Got very good like sixth form friends and secondary school friends. But did she follow you on socials?

Yeah, we still have each other on social media, but she just kind of stopped. Like I don't think there's any bad blood, but I don't know, she just stopped messaging me and we were literally, she was one of my best friends. Did you never confront her or ask her? No, so I'm kept messaging being like, hey, like, do you want to catch up or hey, da da da da. For ages, I just kept it to myself because I was like, it's kind of embarrassing.

Like, I feel weird. Like, I feel like I'm begging from like, someone. That's really interesting that you felt that. I think silence is sometimes stronger than the other thing, which is when they're just like always busy. She would just be like, yeah, I'll call call or whatever and I would just send loads. She would respond to you but she just sort of fob you off. No she'd respond and be like yeah I will like catch up. This is someone who I would speak to like every week we

would have a call like every week and then suddenly it just stopped and then I spoke to like my best friends from sixth form and secondary school because we're very close. I was like guys is this weird and I showed them my messages and they were like that's they were like you need to stop like you let her go if she doesn't want to message you you've got all of us basically you don't need her and I was like yeah but sometimes I'd be sitting on the tube and I would see her we were literally no like see her station oh right and I'd be like I'll just start tearing up and I'd be like oh that's horrible I'd be like, Oh, just start tearing up. And I'd be like, Oh, that's horrible. I'd be like, Oh, my God. You'd see her at her station. No, no, no. I would see

like a memory. Just a memory. I'd be like, Oh, that's her station. And then I'd be like. Salwa, that is like the most romantic story, like seeing her station and tearing up. Yeah. But I was with one of my best friends when I was tearing up. And they were like, stop. They were like, you know, it's just it's fine you've got other people who want to be in your life and I was like yeah. So I don't want to get all Sherlock Holmes on you but let's take a few steps back please. I have some questions. Okay.

Can I ask you why you didn't ask her? Just because it literally just happened over time so I didn't even realise that it was happening. It's just more like oh like I miss you like we We would sit in my bed and be like, oh, when you get married, your wedding's going to be like this and this and this. And I'm like, where are you? Oh my god. It's so hard, isn't it? Because with friends, you bond on such a different level. Do you have a story of maybe a breakup? I have one friendship breakup, which it's really sad actually, because we were so close. were like besties we did everything together but we kind of lived like the same life like we were partying we were going out we were young we were in our

early 20s do you know what I mean and then all of a sudden like she gets this boyfriend she gets pregnant she has a baby oh currently right now she's literally got two babies she's married she's got mortgage I've got none of the above I just can't relate to her anymore yeah so I just think we She's literally got two babies, she's married, she's got a mortgage. I've got none of the above, do you know what I mean? I've got none of the above. I just can't relate to her anymore. So I just think we drifted off. Like, I remember going round once she had her first baby. We were still quite close then.

And she was talking about the birth. She was giving all these medical terms and she'd ripped the bit, like, you know, from your fanny to your bum. Oh my God, which is so normal, but like, oh my God. And I was listening to it going, I feel like I'm literally 16 years old by now. I can't even think of birthing something out my vagene. Do you know what I mean?

I just couldn't relate. And I was going, you're right then. Children is definitely a big divider of friends. You suddenly have your friends who care and then your friends who don't care. Your friends who are like, I liked you when I could get stoned with you and cycle around London. Anthony, never messaged me anymore.

I love you Anthony, but you actually should reply to my messages. It's a direct thing to make you feel like Anthony. Yeah. And then you have like, cause you have these magical moments with friends and the thing is if one of you moves on, the boyfriend thing is interesting as like a thing that's come up, right? Yeah. You move on because you're just like, you used to be my faker cause I one of you moves on, the boyfriend thing's interesting as like a thing that's come up, right?

You move on because you're just like, you used to be my favorite because I could call you every day, but now I've got a boyfriend or I've got a child. Like the focus shifts and maybe that's part of why it's harder to relate. For sure. Oh my God.

Now she's got two babies. I still follow her on social media as well. So I see what she's up to. I saw her wedding, she looked good. I wasn't there because I wasn't invited. Oh, you weren't invited? No, no, no. She had quite a small wedding. But I do think she's up to. I saw her wedding, she looked good. I wasn't there. Because I wasn't invited. No, no, no. She had quite a small wedding.

But I do think she had a big wedding I don't think I'd still be invited to. I haven't spoken to her. I literally haven't spoken to her. And my friends too, that we're also friends about, no one speaks to her. She's creating a mother's meeting. She's got a mother's meeting.

She's got a mother's friend. She's got a mother's friend. Yeah, she's got a mother's friend. But I think that's so fair enough. Like if now one of my friends had a baby, this was like probably like five years ago. if now one of my friends had a baby, this was like probably like five years ago. If now one of my friends had a baby, I would feel a bit more like mature now.

But then I just thought, I just wanna have a WKD with you. And you also, you also have friends. Other brands are available. In your 20s you resent those friends who speed up their 20s. But sorry, why have you got married? Why have you done that?

We were having so much fun. We were. It's like an offence to me, in our life together, that you're gonna go and do that. Why are you cutting this friendship so short? Why are you so selfish? Exactly, it's rude. In terms of my friendships, right?

The first friendship was this friend I had in school and we only became super close in year 11, right? When we realized we were going to the same college. During school, from year 70, year 11, we were in different classes, didn't barely look to her. And then college, we got really close. And then I was going through my forced marriage, as you do, and I was telling her everything, like everything that was happening at home, everything. I was 16, I was 17, basically a virgin, bit of a loser, bit of a dweeb. I was so learned about the world, but also so immature and didn't know how relationships,

didn't know anything. And she was great. And she was like my confidant. She quickly upgraded to best friend. And then I went to uni. Then I met my best friend, who's my best friend now. My first best friend who lives in New York. Her thing with me was,

I confronted is such a strong word, and I was like, what's wrong? And she said, you were so close to me, she went to a different university, you were so close to me, you said all this stuff. And I didn't realise this, but I must have phased her out, spoke to her less, didn't text her as much, just because of the distance. And I was living with my friend at the time, we were living out in the first year, and so I could come home and things were happening so much at home and it was so intense and things were changing a mile a minute. And I sort of needed someone in close proximity to me to be like, my mom and dad

doing this and that and doing that and now getting mad. And so, so that was her thing. And then I did apologize, but it just wasn't enough for her. And it was clear that she just didn't want to hang out with me. And it was like a rejection of an ego. And I tried to apologize. And the same thing happened with these two other friends at college who just, they just didn't want to hang out with me anymore.

And I was quite hurt by that. But I guess you move on, you have different friends. But it's so tricky, isn't it? What do you think defines like friendships that make them different to like a sexual relationship? What's the kind of magic of like a friendship and why is it so undervalued? I've never been in a relationship. So again, this is just hypotheticals. I feel like I could probably annoy my partner more

and they've got to take it because they will annoy me more and I'll take it. Whereas when your friend does it, a lot of people just won't. So I feel like there's a difference in that way, but also they are really similar and you cut a lot of slack for your partner, but when it comes to your best friends, you won't.

I've recently just got into a relationship and I haven't had a boyfriend for like six years and it took me so long to like find this amazing partner. And I feel like if we have a little argument or something like that, I'm gonna let him off because it took me so long to find you and I know deep down he is amazing. Whereas with friends-

I really hope he's not fucking listening to this. Because he's gonna get rid of murder right now. But with friends, you have so many and you grow up and kind of different stages of your life, you go through so many friends. You kind of think, ah, well, you've done me so dirty here. I've got other friends. I've got other people.

You could do different things, don't you? You have home friends, mosque friends, or like, house black friends. I think with like, there is maybe one friend in my life who I've known since I was zero and we've been through everything together. And when I look back to my life, I'll have the greatest loves and the greatest hits

and the one consistent will be her. That's lovely. She is one great lover. She's the one who I would get pissed with and have a massive blowout argument with because I feel like she deserves it sometimes. Well, they feel like yes sometimes sisters then yeah exactly we're like sisters she's actually got a sister and she's getting married next year and her sister's

gonna be the maid of honor and I'm like that should be me I'm just telling everyone I'm the maid of honor and yeah we've got like a really tight bond she was the center part and we had an argument very specifically because we were at Saturday school, we were at Mosque, and we got in trouble because we were all jumping over a wall into like this area that you're not supposed to go into. And we all jumped off, teacher came around and was like, all of you guys, you're all in trouble. Like who did this? Who was in charge? And a bunch of other kids pointed at her and I didn't really know what to do so I pointed at her too.

She was like. She was fucking snitch! That's out of order. I don't want to get in trouble. It is out of order. So she's been talking to me for like two years. Yeah but also valid. Two years with the centre parks. I think the difference fundamentally for me, female friendships and romantic relationships,

is that I think your female friendships are in your everyday. They are part of your everyday. They are part of your everyday brain space. Whether you're talking about your poos, whether you're talking about your periods, whether you're talking about your fannies, the guy you went on a date with, the girl you went on a date with, your work, your boss. Like the things I talk about with my best friends, like that level of detail. It's your inner monologue isn't it? It's the inner monologue that they get. Like with my partner, there's no way I'd be like,

I had a packet of skits today and it was really amazing. And I'm going to tell you what, he's just on a fucking time for that. Whereas my friends, they are there for the minutiae, the great things and the important things, but the minutiae and the everyday, like they're just the shit that maybe, and the mundane and the men and they're there for the fun times and the parties. It was interesting what you said about how with your friend, you were in bed like having little sleepovers together talking about your wedding. And I have tried to recreate that with my partner like a hundred times.

We'll go to bed and we'll get under the covers and I'll be like, so we should like talk. How are things like? Thinking, oh my God, we're going to be that couple that like stay up all night talking to each other like, Ravina, that only happens in the movies. I'm done. Oh no, I actually think I can find that. I will find that. I actually will because I'm such a talker.

Yeah, you'll be like, oh, this is my wedding. I'll be like, shh. I'll literally be like, I'll be like, you don't love me if you don't want to speak to me. I will lose my... I will literally be like, I need someone to speak to. I also think like, when you don't have sex with your friend and you break up with someone,

I suppose the biggest difference is it's, you don't have sex with your friends, you have sex with a partner. And I think about the times when I've broken up with a partner and it's hurt, and it was a different kind of pain. But when you break up with a best friend that you loved, that you respected, that they were your sister, they had your back, it just slaps in a different way. That's a different kind of pain.

And I would say even worse, because they couldn't have sex with you and you weren't as strong as they were. You were as strong as they were. You didn't have that attraction and you were as tight as you were and for them to walk away or maybe you had a fight or whatever I think it's a different kind of pain for sure. Yeah well that's kind of like what you said at the start of it Robina when you were like it's really my personality you really just don't care it's just my personality it's not my looks. Yeah there's nothing else to rely on.

I don't know, like this specific friend I've had my whole life, it would be remiss for me not to say 90% of my personality is built on her. It's built on me copying shit she said, her copying shit I said, us liking the same cultural references and having like real cheat sheets

on how we talk to each other. And just, and I have that, luckily I have this with my partner, but the belly laughs that I get from hanging out with her, like I definitely have that with my partner, it's very, very funny and makes me laugh. But that is so raw. Like I can spend an hour with this friend

and feel pain from laughing hard. It's also the way women speak, right? We're constantly talking. I wake up to like four text messages from my, I've got a girl group of like someone saying this, someone saying that, someone saying that, I'm like, all right, I'm ready, guys. I'm ready, tell me, tell me, I'm here.

But I love like waking up and having like five like voice notes from your friend and you can listen to them while you're getting ready. Like, and it's like monologues. Oh yes. It's so good. I listen to it the best time at the gym on the stair master. No one wants to be walking them stairs.

Get your friends podcast on. Oh my God, it's just like voice notes. She's like, just walking to work today. God, it's miserable. I mean, it's so. She's like fly by. I said Poppy voice notes. I'm like, you can listen to that one at the gym.

It's so good. I listen to music at the gym. I'm not listening to your problems. But it makes it go so much faster. And then you start replying too. You're about to break. I know, I know. Why is that so pure joy that you're so right?

I've got a friend who lives in America and when I get a voice note from her I'm like, I'm going to save it. Seven minutes. Seven minutes. That's literally what I do. I'm going to wait until I'm on public transport and then be like, Oh, yes. I'm the complete opposite. I'm like, oh my God, I need to be like, I need to be at home with a cup of coffee, like listening in.

Taking notes. Taking notes. But there's just such joy from female friendships. And I think the way we bond and the way we talk to each other and the way we are there for each other, like almost like sisters. And when you have that and it breaks, it just crushes you a bit. Because I think men, sorry, will come and go. Men will come and go. Whereas a good fucking friend, when are you going to have a friend

like your centre Park's friend? My best friends, I mean, it's only been 13 years, but we've got to where we've got to because it's been 13 years, 14 years of grit and trust and being there for each other. And work. And work and highs and lows. And yes, there's been arguments,

there's been disagreements, but it's like, we're fucking tired as fuck because we are there for each other. It takes time to earn that, right? You've got to curate that. You can't just have it. You have to put in work into your friendships as well. As much as work is your relationships, you have to make the friendship work. You have to, and if the friendship is strong enough, you can come back from massive arguments. Cause me and my best friend, we fight like sisters. We really do. But because we love other so much Yeah, there was one time actually she we had a birthday trip for my 21st birthday to Barcelona and it was me

Her and our other friend and we had this massive fight. It's so stupid because it was over a boy Oh my god, I hate that. I like it. She hate that now. I'm like 27. That's make people sick and she didn't come to my birthday She was like I can't like I need like it was that makes me feel sick. And she didn't come to my birthday. She was like, I can't, like I need, like it was literally like a few days before. And I was gutted, my 21st birthday, even without my best friend. I was really, really upset, but like we actually needed that time.

Cause when we came back, she was like, so how was it then? And we were literally back, but we needed that space. I was gutted at the time. We did a game when I was gutted at the time. We did a game when I was younger with some school friends where we all went around and said on a bits of paper you had to write two things you like about your friend and one thing you think they could change. Oh my god, that's...what? Yeah, I'm really just remembering it really strongly now.

And all of the, like, everyone wrote really nice things about me, like, you're really, like, you're great to go to parties with, you're really confident, you're really fun. And the thing that was the thing that they thought that I could change was that I'm too much of a people pleaser. Oh, okay. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's like being in a jail interview and then saying what's your flaw and then you actually give them a strength that disguises as a flaw. Yeah, yeah, no, that was not a real negative. Yeah, no, it's like, ah, which is great because I was like, those are solid facts. That's great. Do do you get any negatives? So one person, one person's a little bit bitchy,

and I mean, this is when we were like teenagers at school, so she's not anymore, but she used to just be like, really nag on anyone who wasn't in our circle. Right, okay. Because I think she was really protective of our friendship, so if somebody new came in, she'd be like, did you see what she said about that, this or this, and like, everyone was a bitch,

basically, that wasn't us. Yeah. Which is how you feel about the world when you're 15 anyway, isn't it? What are your friendship regrets? I've got two friends. So I've got one friend who was my best friend. And then we both demoted each other to like a tier five friend.

Tier five? Yeah, like quite low down. That's a big jump there. Tier five, OK, wait, let me just rephrase. Like, we were best friends. And she was one of my friends I met at uni, incredible, amazing and still is and helped me through my divorce.

Like, it's funny, I look back and I, in hindsight, I was definitely the friend that relied on the other friend too much. I was probably really selfish. I was probably just talking about me. Like, you know, really, when you hold the mirror to yourself and you're like, you were that friend,

did you ask her about how she was feeling? And I don't think I did, in all honesty. And I was going through this divorce and it was terrible. She was such a rock and she still is. Shams, if you're listening, I love you. But what happened is she had kids. We went our different ways. I met these new group of friends that I've got now that I met 13 years ago.

I don't grieve it because she's not, she not she's still in my life. Right. I text her every now and then I'm like, oh, it's cute. We're just not as close. And I'm like, she was such an important person. She was so I couldn't have got through that divorce if it wasn't for her and my sister and this other cousin who I don't talk to. She doesn't. That's totally different. Sounds like a lot of people don't talk to me. That's a whole different thing. I didn't do anything to her. She just doesn't talk to me. That's a whole different thing. I didn't do anything to her. She just doesn't talk to me. Anyway, that is a friendship in my life right now where I'm like, we're so different though.

So it's like, what am I doing it for? But she meant so much to me and I probably should tell her that more. So my other great loss and my breakup is this girl called Ruge. She lived in number 12, we lived in number six. And she was like a year older than me and we did everything together. She's in my dad's precious family photo albums. Like we had the same bag, the same dress,

the same hairband, the same jelly shoes. Like we basically did everything together. And then when I was 11, I moved from Tower Hamlets to Wolfham Forest. And then it was pre the days of internet. Like I didn't know, I couldn't keep in touch with her. And we just drifted apart, drifted apart. I basically turned into a slag

and she just turned more Muslim. And then this was my biggest regret. I had a little bit of a love-hate relationship with her mother who was my Quran teacher. And I didn't go to the funeral. And I so regret not going to the funeral. I don't know why I didn't go. Because she was, the mother, the teacher had to be so informative.

She was so important. She was a huge character in my life. And maybe Ruge was mad about that. Anyway, I sent her this long text that I sent her sister to give to her. She just never got back to me, but I got closure. I got closure. I sent her this long text. I sent the thing I wanted to say and I said,

I'm so sorry that I didn't come to your mom's funeral. And I really regret that. And I just want to say that I had, I'm so sorry that I didn't come to your mom's funeral. And I really regret that. And I just want to say that I had some of the best years of my life with you. And I appreciate that you've gone, we've gone our separate ways and we couldn't keep in touch. But she was really important to me. And I've gone over it. I have, I have gone over it. You know, when you don't dream about someone anymore, like I've gone over it.

It's funny. It feels like the recurring pattern isn't like having a breakup with a friend. It's more like a slow drift. Yeah, I feel like it's a slow drift. With men, it's more like da-da-da-da-da. More like, how could you do that? How could you do this? Then you fuck one more time

and then you fucking break up. Absolutely. I'll be inside the room. One thing I always struggle with is kind of the feeling you have when you leave a friend. And so when you leave and you feel really light, you feel like light because you like go go of something or you feel like joyous because you just had a good time but sometimes you have this friends who are

going through a tough time themselves and you sometimes leave feeling really drained like they just talked about their problems and they're just they've sucked every what I did to poor shams yeah a little bit of you is like should I hang out with you anymore because you're just every time I see you, you're making me feel like this. See, I don't know if I'm that friend because I'm really lucky where I've just never felt like that with my friends. We genuinely are like trauma dump on us, like tell each other everything. We what's the last time you saw a Sagittarius? I'm just not really into it. What's the last time you saw a burger?

Oh, OK, nice. I like burgers. But yeah, I don't. I literally don bago. Oh, okay. Nice. I like bagos. I don't care about star signs. I literally don't care. I don't enjoy talking about star signs. I'm stuck for it. I don't know if anyone's watching this before the haramperlies continue. Like, come at me. I love Gemini's. Anyway. Salma, I just want to say something though. When you are, now I'm going to sound like an old person. When you're now in your, about to be 40, you're going to be a young woman and you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And

you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And you're going to be a young woman. And, I just want to say something though. When you are, and now I'm gonna sound like an old person.

When you're now about to be 40, and that's all you've known, it will drain on you. There are people who are quite neg. And sometimes they say you're friend and then I'm friend. Yes, not my friends. And they're like, I don't. And that's really hard. But obviously some people go through phases

where their life is a bit more tricky. And like you said, I'm gonna be there for you now, because I know you're gonna be there for me later. It's actually, I think there's a problem that we have And like you said, I'm going to be there for you now because I know you're going to be there for me later. It's actually, I think there's a problem that we have about like, oh, they're really like draining my energy. They're like killing my bars. I just need to like let go of them for a bit. When actually that's the moment they need you.

Yeah, yeah. That's what being a friend is. Exactly. It's not, you're not just a friend when it's convenient for you. When it's good. It goes both ways, I think. I also probably wouldn't trauma dump to my full capacity with people that I don't fully trust. Unless I've had a few tequila shots.

I love the whole different post-docs. Everyone knows. Your mom knows. Everyone in the girls toilet says. Everyone you're like, seriously, this is what's going on. Trauma dump on me, I'll trauma dump on you because we're best friends. Do you know what I mean? That is what's going on. Traumatized me, I'll traumatize you because we're best friends, do you know what I mean? That's what we're there for.

Do you know what actually really pissed me off? When you've gone through the situation 20 times over, you've given your best advice to this best friend, you've given her everything you've got in your brain and she does everything. She does everything the other way around. You think, seriously, I can't listen to this again because I'm gonna give you the same advice

that you're not following. Friend A, trauma dance on friend B. Friend B gives great advice. Yeah. And then friend A continues to do the same shit. Yeah. More trauma. And then you're just like, oh God.

There was a moment I had to say to a friend, basically I'm paraphrasing, but we weren't there for her and we were there for her, but we were just really busy and it was a miscommunication. But equally I was going through a really sad time myself and I just, I was like, I can't have the emotional bandwidth right now to deal with my shit and your shit. And it was the first time actually that I'd ever said that. And I'm like, I need to fling out that card more.

Because often I will pause my emotions or whatever shit that's happening in my personal life and be like, I'm here, tell me everything. I think like in my relationship as well, we do the whole thing like I need to be like good here so I can be good to you. If I'm good here, then you're gonna get like the best version of me.

And so sometimes it's like I need to go and do some stuff that's gonna make me good up here so that I can like, I can give you to you. If I'm good here, then you're gonna get the best version of me. And so sometimes it's like I need to go and do some stuff that's gonna make me good up here so that I can give you the right advice, I can be the best parent, I can be the best partner. And I think the same with friendships. It's like I need to come to that friendship with a good solid thing. So I can be there for you when you need it.

Do you think we need to, as women, maybe try to bring a bit more fun into our friendships? Because we love to go deep quickly, don't we? You see your friend, the small talk is like what? One percent of the chat and then you're like in it. You're like, what's going on with your life, your family? And in fact, should we maybe just, you know, go ice skating? I love ice skating to be fair. I'd be up for that.

I think with my friends, we are like constantly belly laughing. Like we do laugh a lot and the serious moments are like a little bit with my, I think personally with my friends, we have a lot of lot of fun yeah I think if it's constant sadness something is going to drain on you but then they're probably not your best friends because with your best friends you should be having a fun time yeah you should be able to have the range of experiences yeah you can go from one extreme to the other like in the space of 10 minutes yes you know what I mean yes one minute you're crying the next minute you're laughing because you've got a snoring accident while you're ice skating.

Exactly. God forbid. Oh God. No, yeah, I agree. I think it's like dates. You should be dating your friends kind of. Yeah. I love that.

You've got to date your friends again because whenever you plan a date. We should all click to that right now. Yeah. I like that. Whenever you plan a date, I guess you're like, let's do an activity and dinner, but you don't really make that much time, I guess, for your friends and people. By the way, it's Valentine's Day today, right? And on Valentine's Day, I've planned to go out with my friend who's got a son. And I said, I'm going to pick her up in my mom's

car that I'm borrowing and we're going to put our boys in the car and we're going to drive to the countryside and have a big walk together. That's sweet. That's actually what we're doing. Yeah, because she was like, we can go for a coffee in your mum's. It's what we always do. Always do. She lives in America and I was like, yeah, or or I get the car. And I suggested it like, oh, whatever.

She's also pregnant. So I was like, whatever, we can just have a coffee. And she was like, let's go to the countryside. It's like, if you throw that into your friends, something random, and they like grab the fishing net, you got a good friend. Yeah, you look back at. I love that, like dating your friend, because I guess when you're a mum and you're so strapped for time, when you do have time for your friends, it's so precious.

I like Rubina, I actually do love to just like dinner, sit and talk, but I do think there's a thing about women, we just love to chat, don't we? We chat, like I say goodbye to my friend after an hour and 40 minutes and I'm like on the toilet and I'm like, I'm going to text you in exactly 17 minutes again. I say bye to my friend, I'm like, okay, I'll talk to you in about four hours. So it is constant, which I love, like I love that connection, but maybe there's such a thing as doing something

and then maybe you take out your frustration through the activity. The best activity in the world is karaoke. Have your dinner, have your drinks, then go for a karaoke session. It's the best thing ever. I recently changed my chosen karaoke jam choice. What is it? It used to be Candy State and Young Hearts Run Free.

Young hearts run free, always the story of the worst. And now it's Neil Young. I'm sorry, what's that song? Neil Young. Go on, sing it. It's called Old Man. Okay. Okay. Oh man, take a look at my life, I'm a lot like you. I think this is growing up. Anyway, so when I've been breastfeeding, I've been learning all the lyrics to that because I thought what would be really cool is next time anyone asked me to karaoke. Oh, you'll be like,

oh I'm going to get drunk. I'll get drunk. I'll be kind of stated, everyone's like, I know who she is, and then I'll bring out Neil Young. Brilliant a kind of state and everyone's like, I know who she is. And then I'll bring her up. You switch her up. Yeah, I can switch her up. It is the best. Anyway, what's your karaoke jam? Um, I love foundations. What's that one?

You know the cracks in your foundations. That one? But I can't. That's such a good- Are you a K-Nash? K-Nash. Yeah. I love that.

And I know that I can't let go. You can really belt it out. But obviously if you can't sing you could have just like talked it out. Exactly, because it's talking in the interest of the bird. Yeah. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I know that I can't let go. You can really bail it out. But obviously if you can't sing, you could have just like talked it out.

Exactly, cause it's talking in the reverse. Sex was worth it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's such a good like song. Also I do love like American boy and like. Oh yeah, American boy. The rap's hard though. You can't get ready.

The lyrics on the screen. I'm gonna drop out with you. But this is only fun. It's always like a boo, ow, ow. Don't let the boo, ow, ow. Always let the boo, ow, ow. It's only fun when the other person's into it as well. Yeah.

God forbid I'm sitting there going like, it's the clown. And then everybody's sitting there like. No, karaoke only works when you're all drunk and you all wanna do it together. And you can be allowed to have one group, one person in the group who's like, oh, I don't want to go. And then they secretly fucking love it.

And the belting out boys. There's always that one person who's actually really fucking good. And you think, oh my God. Girlfriend with an emo or something. Brilliant. What kind of things like All Saints is quite a good one to do with friends. That always never ever have a party. Solo. That one's a really good one to do with friends. You don't know that one. Oh my God.

Oh my God. Sorry. How old are you? 37. I'm only 37. I'm a part of the party. Solo, that one's a really good one to your friends. You don't know that one? Oh my God. Oh my God, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. How old am I? 37. I'm only 37. I'm only 24. I'm born in 2000. ["Round Girls Do It Too"]

Round girls do it too. But if I suggested karaoke or axe throwing or ice skating or arcade, like playing a game, My friends would laugh in my face and say no. Why? I wouldn't. Nah. Yeah we go, oh man take a look at that. Maybe that's what we need to do but they just want to sit and talk and drink but I think maybe we up the ante and do something. No I feel like people make time for like a partner and they'll say like oh I'm gonna I'm not free but I'm gonna make time for us to plan an activity and go for dinner

whereas when it's their friends it's just like oh when am I free and I'll fit you in then whereas when it's a partner you're moving things around and I feel like you need to have the same energy when it comes to your friends because also it's annoying when your friend has a partner and is like moving things around for them and I get it like I Can't be below talk so I understand that but also I was here before him. Yeah This weekend because I haven't seen my partner for a bit as I'm hanging out with them It's like you fucking live with them

Did you see me when did you see me and I'm better than him? Yeah Exactly. I am my boyfriend are actually long distance and it's kind of amazing. Like he goes, he lives. We didn't live that far. He lives like near Manchester, Liverpool kind of area. But when he comes down, we spend like this lovely time together. And then he goes back up and I've got all the free time to see my friends, do whatever I want. Like it's actually brilliant. The perfect one. I love it.

He is kind of perfect. I love you. We're kind of perfect. Love you. We're only a year in. I've been doing Galentines for the last like six years. This is the first year in six years I've actually got a Valentine. But I think Galentines is like the best day of the year. It's amazing.

I think I've always been a bit of a party peeper. Growing up I was like, oh, Valentine's Day commercial bullshit. I'm like that. Really, really anti and negative in every single relationship I've ever been in. I've been like, no, trash, absolutely no. Although my partner is always really funny and sends me really hilarious cards. But I think like

this year I'm going to go Galentine's because I'm going to meet my friend and I'm going to go have a girl thing and I'm going to make it a date. I might even bring flowers. Do it! Oh my god, just absolutely. That is adorable. Is that weird? No, that's so cute. Maybe a gift? Yeah. A card? Do it. Or a picture of my face framed. Yes, especially that one. Maybe not. I would be so happy if my friend got me flowers. I had Galentine's last year hosted at my house and there was probably like 15 girls from all of my different uni, school, whatever. And I hand made every single galent card like about them. So whatever something about them,

like if they were like tea, it would be something about tea. If they- Are you employed? Cause I am employed. I'm about to go home. It would be in bed when I was like watching EastEnders, I'd be like doing this. That's something I think that if someone wants to do

Gallantines, do that. It's just nice. And I think they all still have them. I definitely remember making a podcast for my friend. This was years and years ago, like pre-podcast even being like interesting. I recorded it like it was a radio show basically which was like, and then like a song is and then like lined up a song and then I put it on a USB stick and I stuck the USB stick on a record and I gave it to her for her birthday. She was so mashed at her party I didn't even know where it went. Oh no! That's so sad. I'm very anti-Valentine's Day. I do think it's corporate bullshit. I think

you should be loving your partner every day of the year and not just on Valentine's Day. However, now on Valentine's Day I celebrate my female friendships and I make a point of celebrating my female friendships. And one of my friends who turned 40, I couldn't be there for her 40th birthday, and I made her a scrapbook of everything that I kept from our friendship when I met her when I was 18. And she said it was one of the best gifts that she'd ever gotten. That is the best gift.

And I wrote photos and I kept all the things from her dissertation and like ticket stands. Oh yeah. That would make me cry. Yeah, that would make me cry. I'm also a real hoarder and I've got issues, but lucked out in the end, didn't it? So each of your friends

you take and give different aspects of your life and what you want from them and then if at some point you can keep that as equal as possible or in some sort of equilibrium because some days they're going to take more and some days you're going to take more and if you know they're your family and your chosen family and they love you and you love them and there's respect then they're basically your friends for life. Here's to friends for life! Friends for life! And now we are your Shaggynie aunties! You've reached the Shaggynie aunties call center. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like how do you ask for what you want in bed?

Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life? Accidentally called your boss daddy? Is your long time love not going down south? For more than just the tip, we're here for you. Yes, you. And you.

And you. And you. Please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling us. Shaggy aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. Hi Shaggy aunties. I love your podcast so much. I absolutely loved Poppy's first episode as part of the Big Boy Energy series. Thank you both so much for the incredible work you do. I've recently joined a few dating apps and started messaging this one guy. We've been sending each other some hot steamy messages and I started to find myself very attracted to him. However, he sent me a voice late last night and it's all gone downhill. I don't find him attractive anymore because his voice turned me off. What should I do? I know being attracted aroused by a person's voice is a thing, but I do like what this guy's saying to me. But I also can't get his voice out of my mind and how it immediately

turned me off. Help. She's basically got the ick, right? Yeah. Can you come back from the ick when it's a voice? When it's a thing, it's fine because it disappears, but the voice, that's a constant. But how bad could it be? It must be really bad. It must be bad. But how bad is bad? Like, what would you say is bad? I like a deep voice, like a hey, you know.

I don't, listener, I know you've just spent the first part of this message saying how much you love Brown Girls, and Big Boy Energy, thank you so much, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but I am going to turn it back to you and say, is it just you and you're maybe a bit picky with voices and things? No, no, no, no. I can feel that. Also, just sleep with him. You don't have to be with him forever.

Well, I'm not saying that. My next point, my next no. Also just sleep with him. You don't have to be with him forever. My next point, my next point was going to be meet him. Yeah. Yeah. If there's a different vibe and you can overcome the voice and the ick of the voice gets less or wanes and you have fun with him, you go out and you have sex, you have dinner and it's fun. Then that, but to off someone, to get rid of someone because of a voice, it's a bit harsh. But if she gets down to having sex with him, and then imagine like she's about to finish

and then he speaks and she goes, fucking hell, what the hell was that? Imagine being told on a date, like, I really fancy you, I think you're brilliant, you seem really great, but your voice is awful. Oh, it's awful. I feel like that's a really hard thing to get past. So she maybe, if she wants to meet him, if she really likes him, if it was my friend, I would

say if you really like him, meet him. If not, just long it off now. Put on a different accent. Guys, guys, we haven't read it properly. Okay, listen, I've changed my mind. Okay, we've been sending each other hot steamy messages. Can you imagine him saying dirty shit with that voice? It's over.

Game over. Game over. And it's in your ear like whispering sweet nothings in your ear but it's like, yeah. I think you should meet him. It might be your microphone on your iPhone. No. No, there are some X I think you can overcome

but not a voice. I don't know. I feel quite harsh saying to this listener, don't meet him but I think that you should to then say his voice is terrible and then you can tell your best girlfriends about it in the group chat. It's a story, right? It's a story. It is a story.

Because then what are we telling young women that just because of a voice you're going to fucking get, like you're going to cut someone off? It's a bit hard. I mean you maybe don't need him to speak. You got your friends to chat to at night. This guy just realized he's a Silence fan. Well that's true. So look, I'm going to say to you, I know the voice is really unnerving, but I think you should not send in each other any voice notes anymore and meet him IRL and see where it goes, that's what I'm saying.

Yep. And we should go, yeah? Yeah, I agree. But also try the role play in the bedroom with a different accent. Oh yeah, the accents, yeah. Salwa, what are we saying? I think if you really like him, meet him.

If you're not feeling, like if you're not 100%, instead of getting more feelings involved, just cut it off now. Yeah, fair enough. But if you really like him, meet him. If you're not a hundred percent, instead of getting more feelings involved, just cut it off now. But if you really want him and you can maybe overlook the voice, go for it. Like, meet him. It's not going to be a no-arm. You're not making a podcast with him. No. All right. That's all for now. Thank you so much for joining us and thank you to our listeners for listening.

Yeah, and thank you so much to Salwa and Anushka, you guys have been great. Thank you for having us. Thank you for inspiring us. I'm gonna treat all friendships now like I'm on a date with them. Like we're re-dating again and I'm going to a karaoke bar with my mates. Brilliant, I'll be there. Thank you so much. If you have any thoughts or questions or dilemmas for the Shaggy Niantis, you can email us at browngirlsdoit2 at bbc.co.uk or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 07968 100 82 2.

Thank you. Bye. I'm Joanna Page. I'm Natalie Cassidy. And we want to tell you all about our podcast. Off the telly. It's basically both of us chatting about what we've been up to. On and off screen. It's just brilliant.

Who and what we just can't resist. With plenty of behind the scenes stories and gossip. Yeah. Cracking, we always say cracking now. Really? Everything's cracking. It's definitely the place for what's occurring. Oh, Jo, you do that so well.

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