Brown Girls Do It Too - What's Your Trauma?

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

Poppy and Rubina are joined by comedian Fatiha El-Ghorri to talk about one thing they definitely got from their ancestors: intergenerational trauma and discuss remembering the smiles of their mothers as opposed to their scars. If anything discussed in this episode impacts you, there are great resources available on bbc.co.uk/ActionLine. Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

If brown girls do it too, did one of those DNA tests that reveal your ancestry, the results would be undeniably South Asian. Duh. What those test results wouldn't tell you but should is that if you share DNA with us, you probably have a predisposition to occasionally being gaslit by your mother and grey eyebrows. Maybe the test would reveal some sordid secret. If it did, we'd discuss it here. That's our way of warning you this episode will contain content of an adult nature. And perhaps the results would explain why we are the way we are. Like, why do I swear so much?

That's our way of warning you that this episode will contain strong language. Adult content, strong language. I think our ancestors would be proud. Mashallah. This is a podcast about sex. At least it started off like that. Now we talk about everything. Everything is sex.

And sex is everything. And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreaks. And our hot, hot, hot takes. I'm Robina and I feel connected to my ancestors when I squat, feet flat. To know that's how a lot of them waited for the train makes me feel close to them. You know where my mind went? How you'd shit. That's probably how your ancestors

Did a poo right Were they pooing in toilets? Probably not No In a hole in the ground Yeah But I wanted to just be classier Than toilet humour

So I went for the train And I just went toilet humour I'm Poppy And I feel connected to my ancestors When I speak Bengali And eat chutki with my hands Chutki is as you know The very well documented curry

That I Very famous Often talk about. Yeah, still need to eat it. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. You cannot eat it. You are not allowed to eat it. What? It's disgusting and it stinks.

But it's delicious. For me, it's like a delicacy. It's like, would you go to Australia? Not like my ancestors weren't brought up that far from where your ancestors were brought up. What, they could be Bangladeshi and have shutki?

No, but they probably have sampled some shutki in their time. I bet you my great-great-great-grandfather and your great-great-great-grandfather maybe had some shutki and did some dice. The way you say shutki, you kind of like make it Cockney, shutki. It makes me feel weird and I don't like it maybe possibly Shutki with their hands yeah sure

why not it was all India one day I sadly don't feel any connection to my ancestors other than

the pain it's so sad that I do this though because I just think about the pain when you think about trauma it's like buzzword pain

so I just think about all the sad shit they went through but I should probably think about all the sad shit they went through. But I should probably think about like the happy shit they went through. But did they go through happy shit? They must have done. They must have done. And trauma is such a word that's like overused in social media and like therapy speak.

Oh my God, we talked about this the other day. It's just so quickly like chosen as a word. Trauma, triggered, gaslight. I said it in the fucking intro, didn't I? Yeah, and actually it doesn't do the kind of discussion justice. Yeah. Because like how could you possibly talk about the stuff that your ancestors went through and just use it in that word trauma?

I mean, one of the reasons why, I mean, when we first started this podcast, to be silly, but I think what we've done is we've shed a light on quite serious stuff, like our trauma, our shared trauma, the trauma of brown women, the trauma of our mothers our aunties it's like we are sponsored by intergenerational trauma yeah I mean we carry it with us every day

every day I feel like I carry it in my hands in your hands? I see it every day it's like so worn face of a 20 something year old

on a good day hands definitely of a 55 year old that's really interesting because I do always think of my mum's hands when I think of my mum I always think of her hands

and like how hard she worked cooked drived cleaned clothes it's just like those hands of people who have lived a life

it's weathered and gnarly and my mum's hands are the same and it's got marks from cutting and cooking and boiling

and frying and burning so I look at my hands and I never take care of my hands it's funny you don't hear anyone getting a hand lift

like people get facelifts sorry it took a real moment so I look at my hands and I never take care of my hands so I just it's funny you don't hear anyone getting a hand lift like like people get facelifts sorry it took a real moment for the penny to drop I need a hand lift like Botox for the hands who's doing that oh my god I need a hand lift

is anyone giving hand lifts I always do this on the tube when I see someone and they look really young and I do it especially mostly with women actually which is very unfeminist of me

I look at their hands and I think their hands and I think that their hands sort of give away their true age because right now 25 year old hands of an 80 year old yeah that's me but I just think about like the love

you know my mum plaiting my hair washing my hair combing my hair all the things that she did with her hands all the things I do with my hands so I yeah I think about my hands I don't know why

it's not often I don't know where my trauma's stored it goes to different parts of the body can it do that? right now I've got a crick in my neck and there's a lot

of trauma there apparently if you've got a stiff neck you know what I mean you're just a bit fucked you're just I mean you have a stiff neck right now

I just slept funny last night but god that was traumatic not the deep intergenerational trauma that we're going to be talking about not the IG trauma

we're talking about not the OG IG trauma you're not the Instagram trauma the OG trauma that we're going to be talking about. Not the IG trauma we're talking about. Not the OG IG trauma. You're not the Instagram trauma, the OG trauma. Yeah. No, this was Instagram trauma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The shoulder Instagram trauma is IG. My mum's hands, OG trauma.

OG trauma, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Do you believe in intergenerational trauma? Yeah. Or OG trauma, IG trauma, all of it? Yeah, I believe it exists. I feel like you can't survive as a person without feeling a deep connection

to the experiences of your parents. And I like to sometimes think, or maybe because we're South Asian, we feel it more, but I just don't think that's true. I think everyone carries some sort of trauma that their parents or ancestors have felt across the line. Like whether your parents have had to move country,

become stateless um because of wars because of famine or there was like yeah anything any conflicts happening in the countries that you're from like you still have a weird connection to all of that without knowing and without addressing it all the time so yeah i definitely believe it and i know that there's not huge amounts of research being done into it and i know they're just looking at like genetic the things that we can carry on in genetics if you come from poverty-stricken places like what you can pass down but I think that there's still so much research to be doing so how do you how do you collect qualitative data I just study my family study my family study my whole extended family

study and you're right actually I used to think I didn't know what it was and then the first time I heard this term bandied around was five years ago and everything went click click I was like this makes total sense yeah there's one thing that I really didn't realize was a real us family thing um until much later until really recently which is like the passport being like a really important thing because my parents are refugees and then they're refugees again but weirdly they all have British passports because both of the countries that they had come from were colonized by the British. So India then to Kenya. But the passport for them is like the ticket that is so important.

It is the Willy Wonka. It's the golden ticket. The passport was kept in a special drawer. My dad had charge of all the passports. Suitcase, bruv. And like locked. It was such a big thing. And if you were holding your passport even for a second to look at a stamp, they'd be like, put it back in.

Put it back in. Oh, my God. Same with us it was like the most prized possession it was more valuable than gold and your mum's wedding gold

like wedding jewellery like it was so you couldn't fuck around with it my dad kept all my passports till I moved out when I was 28 we kept all the family's passport

and now I'm just like it's right near my fucking dildo right near the butt right near the rope right near my butt plugs but the passport thing is something that I still think is so important like it's right near my fucking dildo right near the rope right near my butt plugs but the passport thing is something that I still think

is so important because it's like this anxiety around your life could be moved at any point and like I don't feel that like I'm British I feel like this country is mine as much as anyone else is

who was born here my dad to this day and my mum they're so stingy and I think it's taken me so many years to be like they had to be stingy

my dad is one of eight he had to take care of all of his siblings and got them married then he's one of six my mum doesn't work like it's he grew up with a in a level of poverty that I just don't understand and clearly neither do my fucking siblings because I was buying shit online and it just drives him mental but you know now I have a bit I'm not I don't I'm not rich but I still think like a working class brown person do you know what I mean a bit I'm not rich but I still think like a working class brown person do you know what I mean I'm like

wheelie dealer del boiler how much money do I have can I get a saving I'm still like this now yeah yeah but I think that's really really

I don't know like if that was his trauma he's turned into something positive for you because I think to be wily about money and to appreciate how far a pound can go

in today's world is a gift it's a gift but all of his kids were like, he went too far. My dad tells me the story about like growing up in a mud hut. In Uganda. In a mud hut. Like the walls were made of mud.

Yeah, mental. I'm sorry, is that from like a movie or like a book? Because it just can't, doesn't it feel like your experience? Is it from the film Gandhi? Because you just like, it doesn't, but do you remember that episode of Master of None? like it doesn't but do you remember that episode of Master of None

it was absolutely brilliant do you remember that episode where they went back to the the Korean guy's dad is like chopping off a chicken

and his dad's doing something wild and you're like this is my father this is like this is in his lifetime this is crazy and here we are

doing fucking TikTok videos I just wonder if like my child is gonna grow up one day and be like, yeah, I've got intergenerational trauma. My mum did a sex podcast. Oh, fuck.

I think because of the way you've raised your little bubs, he'll be proud of this. Look, I'm going to say this that is a bit controversial. I think we all need a bit of struggle. I think we all need to like fight for something because when everything comes easy to you and look, I'm not just saying this, when my, like my poshest, richest friends, they have everything on a, on a, handed them to on a plate. Everything's free. They don't have to pay for rent. I'm not saying that we don't have mental health. Of course we do. But like, you have to fight, you have to struggle. You have to go to hustle for a bit. You've got to be grounded in some way. Like you can't just have everything given to you on a plate all the time because you don't understand life.

So there's, you could take it too far and you're like super poor. Or you can go the other way and like, here's everything that you could ever have. And you don't have to work for anything ever. Then you're just like, well, who am I? What am I? What am I doing? So you have to have a goal. Trauma is a really funny word, isn't it?

Because it's more of like, like in medical speak, it's like a shock to the system. Yes. And so when I think about trauma, like I think I can say that my parents went through trauma because they were refugees. They were taken from their country. And then the same for my grandparents.

That's a traumatic, life-changing experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think I've experienced that same level of trauma, of like a shock. Part of the reason that I really wanted to do this episode was because I watched this video of a guy online i saw this yeah doing a podcast with his mom and he basically was like mom we need to set some boundaries and he's she he's from he's south asian boundaries what is boundary she's like and she was like so angry with him that he would use this word

because he was like you laying down boundaries in between me and you is so offensive like I have given you life I've given you everything what is what do you mean by boundaries boundaries are you gonna just leave me what does that mean and it's so interesting because like some of this that clip went viral because I saw I just saw the clip I wouldn't even I really want to hear the whole podcast but I felt her rage and I felt his rage and I I was them I was him and I was I mean I'm not a mum but like I it's so many South Asian experiences in that conversation. And also such a miscommunication.

Oh my God. Such like a language barrier. Sometimes I feel that even though my mum does speak English, I still feel like we can't find the words to meet in the middle sometimes. And again, that's really difficult when you have this idea of them having a traumatic experience because they haven't found the words.

They don't have the tools to articulate it to you. Oh my God. You're literally making my hair stand on end. Like, you know how language is so important to me and the fact that you've said that kind of, it doesn't make me feel better.

That's not the right turn of phrase, but I used to think, me and my siblings used to think the reason why we can't connect with our parents is because they don't speak English. And my dad speaks it, but very functional.

My mum speaks no English. But what you've said, and actually I've had other people say this, like, you know, their parents are doctors and they still have really this backward way of thinking their parents are middle class or educated i used to think and oh my god but you can both speak english and just not be listening to each other as well you can just not be listening to each other and not having the words in that clip it's really interesting because you can hear him being like mom that's not what i'm saying that's not what i

meant that's not what i'm saying and then she's she's already she's she's already heard it she doesn't have any time to listen to anything else so she just carries on yeah and i'm like that just mirrors every argument i have my mum where it's like we're both talking at each other no one's listening yeah and then we both cried this happened like just the other week she came over and she came she came over and it was like friday she was helping out with my child she'd been looking after him all day so i'm sure she was tired i just had a full week i just come home I literally came in she'd made curry I sat next to her on the sofa I was like this is yummy put my feet up and mum was like you know you really need to sort out your house it's such a trigger for me oh yeah and then I was like what do you mean I've literally just come everywhere

do you want me to clean the floor now she's like you need to get a cleaner because you guys cannot keep this big house clean and I was like mum I just think you know you're like home so I'm not cleaning the house when you come here because you're home like if somebody else comes I clean the house but if you're hitting it just went not listening not listening tears then both of us in tears yeah like the month my mum left the next day to go home and when she got back after driving back to London she texted me and just said I'm really sorry I think that all came across badly I was like done we're done because you know like you can like forgive your family like the way that you can rage at them in a second.

You can forgive them in a faster second. In a faster second. In a half a second. You'll forgive them. So it's like, sorry just is such a great, great word to use with family.

And especially with brown people. Over fucking use it, man. Just be sorry. Just be sorry. Love unconditionally. Get to the good place quicker. Yeah, love unconditionally. This is why my siblings

argue so much. But the way they argue, they make up quite kickly. But I would argue that's a bit toxic. The only time I heard my dad say I'm sorry and um sorry uh to he asked me for my forgiveness is when um he apologized for the wedding like what they made me do and um I've never heard him apologize since but that was just you know when something knocks you for six

I've never heard him apologize since but you're just like you see when something knocks you for six? I've never heard him apologise since, but you're just like, you see them as this like grown up that you revere, that you are, they're a god. How could they apologise to you? In our culture, in our culture,

elders don't apologise to young people. That happens in white people's cultures, not ours. And he did it and I know what a huge moment that was for him.

Huge. Yeah. He doesn't fucking apologise about all this other shit he's done but like but you know it's a step oh my god yeah i had the same you know when i stopped talking to my dad for two years and i went home pregnant and he had a massive fall and he was like i'm sorry you know i'm sorry about everything you need to come home and you need to visit us and we need to we need to fix this like he wanted to do it makes all the difference i like that's one thing

i'd always make sure with my kid is that I'll know that I'm fallible and I always say sorry and then we do this thing like me and my toddler

where like if we hurt each other we kiss the part that we've hurt so we're like sorry sorry and so he'll hit me

because he's a toddler sorry our guest today is a comedian who uses her stand-up routine Sorry. Our guest today is a comedian who uses her stand-up routine to challenge mainstream perceptions of Muslim women. She's truly unlike anyone else in the British comedy circuit and we're so honoured to have her here. It's Fatiha El Ghori. Welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too.

You guys. I love you guys. So why don't we just start with a very basic, breezy question. Really easy icebreaker. It's what we do with everyone. How much trauma do you think you've inherited from your ancestors? Discuss. I think a lot.

Truckloads. Okay, let's say... What's your heritage? Moroccan. Moroccan, okay. Yeah. So I'm very in touch with that side of myself. I speak the dialect. I go there like two, three times a year and stuff like that. I know how to cook the food. I know all that kind of... When I say to people, I'm Moroccan, they go, oh, your parents are Moroccan. I'm like, no, I'm Moroccan. I was born here, but I am Moroccan. I'm British Moroccan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I don't know why people do that. And then you get the opposite of that, where they're like... Where you from from. Yeah. And then I'm like, what? And yeah, so it's like, I'm like, when they say that, I'm from my mum's vagina. Do you know it?

I hope you don't. I have a different answer lined up for who I'm talking to. So if I was talking to you, I'd be like, I'd just say, I'm Bangladeshi, British. Yes. I'm talking to a guy I'm flirting with and I'm like, anything and then. And then if I'm was talking to you, I'd be like, I'd just say, I'm Bangladeshi, British. Yes. I'm talking to a guy I'm flirting with and I'm like, anything and them.

And then if I'm just like straight up, I'd be like, from or from from? Yeah. Because from is East London, from from is Bangladesh. Yes.

Having these two different heritages, like the, is that even a word? Heritage. Well, it is now. Heritage.

Yes, exactly. Plural. Heritage. So like having these two, like obviously we're British and then we're also like the other side of us as well, whatever our cultural or ethnic heritage is. So I find you have like several brains that you work under.

It's like what you, and that's what, when you said sometimes you respond when people ask you where you're from. Code switch, code switch. Yes, yes. So, and then you've got the trauma of both of those sides. So you have like double trauma. So you have your own trauma. And sometimes I look at my mum,

I used to always think this for my mum, and now I look at my dad, and I look at like the pain in their heart, in their eyes, and how like they've, and the pain that they took on from their grandparents. Because intergenerational trauma is a fairly, I say new word. It's not a fairly, I say, new word.

It's not a new, new word, but it's been doing the rounds for the last five years. I mean, I think the first time I read about intergenerational trauma, it wasn't like a BuzzFeed article, but it was an article. And I was like, yep, experience that. She loves a list to call this one. I love a list. Top 10 ways to feel intergenerational trauma. Ticked.

Should we just go on now? No, I'm joking. But I sometimes look at the pain and the anguish in my mum's eyes and the the way she sighs and the kind of and I and I feel it and then she puts projects all of her shit onto me and my siblings and that's basically isn't it like it's just one of those things that I think that is passed down is guilt like one of those things that I just get off my mum is some guilt that she feels about being a woman or how she treated her mother or whatever it is

and then she puts that on me. She puts her guilt on me and then I feel guilty. You know what emotion I feel? Rage. I feel my mum's rage, my dad's rage.

What emotion do you feel? What's coming down? I would say definitely Inside out. Which emotion are you? I'd say definitely the rage thing.

Like now, I think when I was younger I was a little bit angry at my mum because my dad passed away when I was younger I was a little bit angry at my mum because my dad passed away when I was six so like I didn't have a lot of

like a male yeah although I've got five brothers but I still didn't have they're not a dad figure though are they no no

until this day to this day I'm like I'm a man and a woman I am too I'm like venom you know like you see

and then this one comes out and that one comes out like whenever I need it to, to be honest with you, the thing that jumps out, I don't know if it's an emotion, but the thing that jumps out to me, I remember when I was young, it was the sense of not belonging. So when I was young, I remember, so we didn't speak English at home at all. My dad used to say to us, but we was, I was young, you know, he used to say, so I didn't see it. I didn't know it was, yeah, I didn't know it was a thing so like my brothers he'd be like no we're not allowed to speak English at home in in home you speak the dialect and when you're outside then you speak English but we have to preserve our culture and our language and our practices and stuff like that

and our faith and I remember like like my brother would be like he would say in the dialect he'd go pass me the bread please and my dad would be like what did I say? What's the word for please? He would say please in English so he'd go

but what is it in your language? Afek Afek yeah and he would say ataynil khubs give me the bread is it Arabic?

We're more comfortable speaking Arabic and French it's a dialect it's a mixture that's why it's a dialect we don't speak pure Arabic so yeah so he would be like ataynil khubs so. That's why it's a dialect. We don't speak pure Arabic. Ah, okay. So, yeah, so he would be like, So give me the words.

It's kind of funny that your brother's getting backhanded for being polite, but in English. That's weird, isn't it? Exactly, the other way. And then I remember going to, like, nursery, and I remember this, like, yesterday, and I was holding my mum's hand, and the teacher spoke to me,

and I looked up at my mum and I said, I don't understand what she's saying. And my mum looked down and she teacher spoke to me and I looked up at my mum and I said I don't understand what she's saying and my mum looked down and she said this is not our country and that was it and that's what always stuck

and like oh my god I don't know what I wasn't going to cry I don't know what happened there that was some deep suppressed trauma

that was because when we was growing up as well I'm going to be 43 inshallah in April you look 25 thank you I'm not just saying that to be 43 inshallah in April you look 25

thank you I'm not just saying that you've got amazing skin that's what happens when you pray five times a day honey yeah honey I mean

I'm a Muslim and I have to see my mum part time Fridays listen no judgement from me everyone's journey's different everyone's life is different my mum knows when I haven't fasted

you know because I do half yeah she can tell she's like you're not angry you're not as angry I told you it's the rage it's the rage that's passed down. I think that's really interesting about othering because I think that's so spot on I feel exactly the same like my parents all of their friends were Muslims everyone they'd bring home everyone they'd go out with at the weekend all of them were brown and part of that like messaging to me was like white people won't be friends with you and they won't be real friends they won't look out for you like the community looks out for you and that has come from my parents arriving in this

country in the 70s as immigrants it comes from my grandparents arriving in east africa as immigrants so like i've got two generations of people being completely displaced and then sticking together in the community for safety yes and so for so for me, even like growing up, it took me ages to be like, I am a white person's equal. Yes. Just to feel that. Even to this day though,

I struggle with that. I'll be honest with you, that is a struggle for me. Like to this day, I just think that because I'm visibly different as well, you know, like, so it's like

straight away they see Muslim women. Yeah. Do you know? Yeah, absolutely. Not to like with no no of course you're ambiguous you could be you could be colombian yeah yeah yeah colombian you could be do you know what i mean like all these different things you could be it from whatever faith but

like when you were i used to wear i used to be i'm an ex hijabi so i when you when you wear a hijab when you wear a headscarf it's one of the most visible signs of your faith like you are wearing that loud and proud well for most people loud and proud so i wouldn't know what it's one of the most visible signs of your faith like you are wearing that loud and proud well for most people loud and proud so I wouldn't know what it's like to be in your shoes because obviously I took off the headscarf a long time ago yeah and I think that that's one thing that will always will try to um like you know the trauma that you have from your generations you're always trying to diffuse dilute I guess or make better yeah reorganize it or repackage it in some way but you know there's also this other idea that like some genetic things that you've

gained from your like lineage i mean you must have heard about this thing that's like if you're from generations of poverty and this isn't just like indians this is like anyone whose parents went through like wars or famines or whatever you know your body the evolution of your body adapts to um like hold on to fat because you come from starved people because you come from hungry people. And that's why diabetes in the South Asian community is so high because we come from starved people. Is that proven? Yeah.

Oh, wow. I did not know that. There's a genetic trauma that connects. So that's why they're saying like the stuff that's in your body, the stuff that you like trauma is carried in the body, right? It's carried in the brain and the body. That's interesting. I didn't know that. now i can explain it whenever people be like fatia why you look like that after i punched them that's right bitch that's right but it was very different when i was growing up like you had maybe in a class of 30 kids there was maybe like three or four ethnic kids and we all stuck together and it was very my mom would come home come to collect us in a headscarf and they would take the piss and stuff

like that I got into so many fights I nearly drowned a boy when I was like young in the pond the school pond because they used to pick on me so much for being different we all used to play together it was so mixed we had like Malaysian family, Jewish family, Greek family, family from Thailand, South Africa. We all play together. And then the white kids, white English kids, Irish kids. And we all play together, you know, and it was the best. But then we created that as kids. Do you know what I mean?

But when I started school, it was very different. Because as kids, you don't understand race. No, we don't. And you don't understand trauma, really. We don't, no. That's the really tricky thing about difference that i always find really hard it's like sometimes so i think my parents always talked about us as being different like we were the different thing and that was the normal thing like we were the other yes and i really like that's the thing that always like baffles me because it's like it's always done from a white centric point of view

where the difference is yes and i think like if we weren't thinking about differences then we'd just be like we're the same we're all just people we're all just people we're all just people but the truth is like we can't we can't have this theory of we're all just people because we all live different lives our experience of life is so different like you know people have a problem sometimes with us talking about our podcast like it's brown girls do it too because we're putting the brown on it but it's like that's the literal color of our skin that's our experience yeah exactly it's so just like they find that word divisive because we're all just humans at the end of the day but we're humans who have different experiences of this world right but it's when it comes to your experiences that's when it becomes um that thing of well this is woke oh

we're all just human oh why do you have to always bring race into it and i'm like bitch are you crazy like you wouldn't after you know how many gigs i have to do in a pub and when i will before i walk in i have to give myself a pep talk because as soon as i walk in they're all just staring at me like what you're doing here and all this do they say do they say no they would oh my god i'd smash them up like trust me bro i don't take shit yeah and i i feel this london girl i feel it i just but it's a feeling because they're looking at you right so you've got so much bravado but you're what you're saying is this inner voice that obviously comes from your family.

You're the way that you are, where you're looking there being like, I didn't come to pubs growing up. My family never took me to a pub. And the first time you go to a pub when you haven't come from that culture. Especially wearing a hijab as well, right? Yeah, when you have to walk in there and do gigs.

I mean, country pubs still. Do you find that level of abuse, racial abuse, how does it affect you affect you yeah definitely it just reinforces the the the thing of your parents of you will never be one of them you will never fit in you'll always be out of place and we're 20 in 2024 how is it still i think i mean our podcast is kind of radical because we do graphically talk about the sex that we've chosen to have with multiple partners across, you know, 10, 15 years of being able to be single. You do think about the generation. I mean, for me, it's just the generation above me where I know a lot of those women did not have consensual relationships. And like, I'm very aware of that, that like it was just one generation.

I almost had to rebel completely on the other way to be like all of these decisions about my body I will make and I will be in charge of them I remember telling my mum and I just something I wish I did more and I don't and I want to I kick myself I was like do you remember the first day when you came to this country and honestly my mum's a tiny woman but she's like a pit bull right but when she was telling me the story she just she just suddenly turned into this like tiny frail older lady she's only like 55 or something but she was like I came to this country and her voice she's she's like her voice projects but she's like I came to this country and it was really cold and I was wearing a sari and I didn't know anyone and she just kept saying how cold it

was and I just oh my god I just wanted to hold her and hug her like Like she, she's so like, she wouldn't have known anything about sex. She just married my dad, right? I was consummated in Bangladesh. They came here. She has no family here. She's in this foreign land. She's freezing her tits off. Like she's got no one to talk to.

And I only found this out the other day and I'm 38. And it's like, who is she saying these stories to and then I think about and this is where it gets a bit weird I guess but it's like yeah like consensual like I am her daughter and when I got married and I say this in series one of our podcasts so I was in a forced marriage I got married in 2005 and I and I wasn't watching porn so this is pre um smartphone I did not have a clue about what to do in bed I was so scared

I have never experienced this feeling since my heart was beating in my head it was like doom doom

doom and it's like no one teaches you this stuff and that was 2005 like imagine what my mum was feeling imagine what your mum

was feeling the two biggest things for me actually aren't about sex they're about poverty and an education that my mum never got to have. She tells me these stories about growing up in East Africa

and then having to decide which one of them got to go to school. Wow. That's wild. Because of money, because of like, they had to also look after their parents. And my mum was just like, so I had to be the tailor. I went and got a job in like a sewing factory. And I always just wanted the education. And I'm not very smart.

And she has all these hangups about her intelligence. And that for me, this other way, when someone calls me smart, it makes me feel so good. Yeah. I take that from my mum. Yeah.

So I had to be like, you didn't get the education, I got all of it. I got to go to university. I went all the way through secondary school. It's always the way, whenever we start talking about our fucking mums,

I get emotional. Yeah, it's tough. Do you, like with your mum, I mean, obviously, I don't talk about my mum and her sex life. She's obviously had sex six times because there's six of us. But do you think about the sexual trauma of your mother's generation in your community?

For sure. And look at the stuff that happens now. And we're in 2024. Do you know what I mean? And the way women are treated and stuff. And so I think for them, it them, there was a shame around it. And I say this to a lot of my male friends. I'm like, every single female that you know

has had some sort of sexual assault, harassment, even if it's a stare, even if it's like a guy looking at you. Have you ever broached this with your mum or like an auntie or like a mum's generation? No, never. It's embarrassing. And there's always that thing of, what did you do? What did you do? What did you do? Yeah.

Was you looking at him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's your fault. Yeah, yeah. Because that's how they've been taught. Right. Conditioned. Yeah. And also, that's how they deal with it. Because it's painful. But it's almost like they're regurgitating what they've been taught.

Yeah. Do you know? They just say like, that's the way it is. That's like my mum's response to things. She'll be like, well, that's just the way it is, isn't it, Raveena?

And I'll be like, no, actually. This is what men are like. Yeah, this is what men are like. No, no. Is that how you teach your son? Exactly. And then, you know,

like I've been divorced. I've been married and divorced twice. Right. And I had my first marriage was an arranged marriage, but it wasn't a forced one, but it was arranged marriage. And when you when you you know your son's doing something bad and then you're just like oh no just don't worry like oh he's just got a temper you just have to keep him happy and

then you won't see that side of him and i'm like are you crazy bruv are you you know you got like daughters do you want that to happen to your kids like this is not okay you know your son's doing this why have you not intervened i can't be the first woman he's done this not okay you know your son's doing this why have you not intervened I can't be the first woman he's done this with do you know what I'm saying and I think this is

the thing with generational trauma and trauma in general you have to break the cycle you have to break the cycle you have to break

the cycle and you have to be like I understand my mum had these difficulties I understand she went through this but that is not and she's hurting this, but that is not okay. And she's hurting me now

and that is not okay. But I think that comes with, I think you and I talk about this, like it comes with, like when you get older, your rage turns into empathy. So now when my mum says something dumb that I disagree with,

I'm like, okay, let me put myself in her shoes. Let me be that 19 year old woman that came with a sari that was so cold that had no one. Let me understand why she thinks the way she does and why her experiences have shaped her worldview. And I try to be, and I think one of my worst qualities,

especially with my family, is I'm so impatient. I never shout with my friends, but I shout with my family really quickly. That's a family dynamic. And the shouting is part of that intergenerational. We're a very shouty screamy family and I look at some of my like predominantly white friends who are middle class and they're like oh darling just and I get so envious of the way they talk to each other because they're so patient and kind and they listen I'm like oh my god your mum listened to you what oh my god yeah I remember like going to my first white boyfriend's parents house and sitting around the table and them all having dinner in this wild way

where I was like, this is like friends. You're all just friends. There's no hierarchy here. Everyone's equal. What the fuck? And I remember going home and then my parents, the only time in the year we'd all sit around the table was Christmas. We're Muslim, but we would just do that one thing. We'd sit around the table for Christmas and I'd be like,

every year I'd psych myself up for this Christmas dinner thinking like, this is when we're going to be friends. This is when this thing is going to happen. We're going to have these like really incredible dinner conversations and really like reach each other. And it's going to be like full on bonding. No, we couldn't even get past the like mince pie before like there's an argument. And someone walks away.

Like that's like the level of rage that was going on in our house. Wow. I mean, I remember my sister Nadia, she'd come back from a mate's house and she was like, you would not believe what happened. The mother and the daughter, they sat down and the mum asked her, how are you? And we were like, shut up. No, she didn't. Say it again. Say it again. She's like, how are you? And we were like, oh my. We were absolutely flabbergasted. Three words, so much power. But mum's really cute now.

She says, I love you. That's taken out. Like, I think we can break the cycle and I'm not being pessimistic about the future. But like, I am raising a child right now. I have a two-year-old. And recently, because he's two, and he's going through like lots of developmental changes.

His language is amazing and he's really getting there, but obviously there's frustrating moments. So he has these tantrums and it's hard. It's hard being two. But I found this new rage rise up in me when I get really angry and I have to catch myself to be like, I never thought I'd be the type of mother who shouts at my child. Yeah.

And I'm, but I'm here. I'm this close to doing it so many times. I spoke to my partner about it the other day and I was like, I have had to walk out of the room. Yeah. Because all I've wanted to do was shout at him because that's the instinctive primal thing that I grew up with. I think that I want to put him in line.

He should not be talking to me like that. He should never hit me. He should do this. And I like catch myself because I'm like I can't bring that in but also it's so in me it's so in me and it's like I'm lying I'm fighting against

this thing that's like really me did you grow up in a shouty family yeah definitely shouting angry everything

but I think the thing the most important thing like for what you're saying is that you recognise it and that's how you break the cycle do you know what I mean you're not

nobody's perfect but you're trying your best and that's all you can do and I think that's what we have to realize like you as when you notice the pattern is to break it to try and break it you're not going to be able to break it straight away but maybe you might never break it but you you will he's not going to be like that yeah when he's parent. If he ever, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I wonder if our generation have had the biggest radical shift. Yeah. If you really think about it.

Yeah, possibly. Like my mum's life and my grandmother's life, not too dissimilar. Very similar. Like the refugee context, everything they were growing up. Then all of my great grandparents' life

beyond that, all in India. So all the same, really. This generation is completely different. Oh my God. We're in a different world. The chasm.

I mean, the fact that we can do a podcast about sex this is a response I mean when we started it we were like shits and gigs no one's going to listen to it except those six girls

in Bradford or Birmingham but now it's turned into this thing because we know I mean like I said we were idiots because we don't take things seriously

you can really talk about serious topics because we're not I mean we're not preaching or pontificating yeah and there's multiple ways to resolve trauma, right? Acupuncture?

Huh? Well, I had acupuncture as a way to relieve trauma. Acupuncture is good, but I don't know because it's, yeah, maybe physical. Because you do, because with trauma, as with every other kind of thing, it manifests physically as well, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. So anything that can help you relieve that. How do we heal?

I mean, breaking the cycle is one. I think this is on you. You need to have the answer for this. Yeah, I've got the answer, honey. For me, it's talking. Do you know what I mean? Like go and do these comedy shows and then I'll get Muslim women coming up afterwards

and saying, oh my God, I've been divorced and I feel so shamed by my family and stuff. But hearing you is so refreshing. And sometimes people come up to me like I've do you know the amount of times I burst into tears after shows because like people come up and they're like you don't understand what you've done you don't understand and and all this and um and that but there's a there's a pressure with that again going to like you're because I'm this visibly identifiable Muslimlim woman but i'm not just a muslim i'm fatia

i'm british i'm moroccan east londoner exactly east london i'm a comedian i'm a um there's many layers to your identity yeah there is and then sometimes because i the way i look i get put in this box of like they just want you to talk about halal things or yeah and i'm like yeah but i'm talking about my experiences yeah the things i talk about i have lived'm like yeah but I'm talking about my experiences the things I talk about I have lived that's why I'm talking about it and that's what makes

comedy work it's the relatability that's why this podcast is good because there's relatability there's people that are listening and going shit that's me

or that's happened to me that's our story that's right and it's your honest story like you're not you haven't written this I feel like with trauma I feel like

it waters down. Do you know what I mean? I mean, that dilutes down. Yeah. Like it does. Like, for example, when you were saying with your son, your son, like it's watering down. Do you know what I mean? And that's where the change comes. I find things like if you're if you're seeking a therapist, for example, I would always prefer to see a therapist that's North African, Arab or Middle Eastern or like that because they understand there's so many things I don't have to explain. You know, like if you go to...

The unsaid. The unsaid. If sometimes I find like, if you go to a white person and you go, I have to go to my mum's every week, otherwise my family kicks off and they go, well, you don't have to go. And I'm like, it's not that easy, bro.

All right, white person. Yeah, I'm like, it's not that easy. Maybe you you can do that my whole family would fall apart if i did that i'm just giving you an example that's not the thing with my family but like do you know what i mean so like there is this i don't know there's like with us we can bond yeah you know i know we're different i know like your bangladeshi background you say your indian heritage bangladeshi heritage moroccan heritage but we can bond. Look at the things we've said. Our Venn diagram is very...

My mum's like that. Yes, the Venn diagram, that is it. These circles, you know, and where we link and connect on a lot of it and understand, like, you can, you know, you saying that thing about your mum in a sari, like, my mum, we don't wear saris but my mom had the same experience being it being cold you've come from this warm country and you've come here and it's so cold yeah yeah and i remember i remember one of my friends she came here as a teenager she was

like 12 and she said because in morocco in our town we've all the buildings are like white that's why when the bastard spanish came and colonized morized Morocco they um that's why Casablanca white houses yeah Casa is houses white is because of the sun why was it all white yeah they're all yeah to reflect the sun so the houses stay cool but that's why it's called Casablanca they called it that you know so and and then she and I remember that was the image she told me she was like I came I had henna my hands were all orange and um and the houses were all gray and that was the thing that upset me the most like it was so great yeah like colorless life yeah yeah I think like it's I think all of that stuff of like like thinking that you're like connected to your parents and their parents and

their parents parents like I always find that when my parents show me old photo albums and like seeing my mum as a toddler and then seeing like her mum as like a 20 year old and you're like oh my god I have my grandmother's nose I've never met my grandmother never haven't met her she died before I was born but I have her nose I have her smile I have her hair and I think about how my mum must look at me sometimes and see her mum in me and how you're like so connected to all of those things like I remember the first time I went to India and I was like these people look like me yeah like actually look like me because I'm like not a conventional looking Indian Indian but like there's a bit in the north in the mountains where they look a bit more like me you know my brother so I've got so my family split

so my dad was married before my mum and he had eight children and she passed away and then my mum was married before my dad and she had three children and she passed away and then my mum was married before my dad and she had three and then she got divorced and then her and my dad met and they got married and had me and my sister here we're the only two kids out of all of them that are married so that were born here but like my so my brother my brother's black because his dad's from sahara but his sister like my brother from my mum's side he's his two sisters are not like they're like my skin color yeah and it's funny how it jumps and when he went to the Sahara to see his family like his dad's side of the family he's got a little brother that is like photocopy of him

and his son my mum's like oh my god you look like your uncle from your dad's side like it's funny how it feeds down into us you know like my mom my mom's always saying to me so she's like oh you've got toenails like your your uncle i know i'm like why are you looking at the man's toenails you pervert like you know and it's funny like they're not here well they're not with us but we're connected to them in some way whether it's physicality i also think weirdly through food because sometimes when I eat like a meal that I know that my mum's mum prepared or whatever. Or like when you eat something spicy and you like love it and you're like sharing that enjoyment with your mum. And you're like, this is like, we've enjoyed this spice, like Haldi.

We've enjoyed Haldi for generations and generations. Anything wrong in my house, my mum's like put Haldi in it. Yes. So as a British Bangladeshi, and I think a lot of of second generation kids have this we don't have a concept of history so like beyond my granddad I have no idea where I'm from I don't know my granddad once wrote me the names of all of my his dad his dad's dad and I fucking lost it and it makes me want to cry but anyway I guess I could get it from my dad but and I need to do this but um I sometimes wonder about the personality of my like great great grandma like is she like me is she like my mom is she fiery is she feisty

like she would have been born maybe 150 years ago obviously it was a different time I don't think about them often because it feels so long ago but I just sometimes think about like would they are they like me I do I like I remember going to a wedding once and um getting there late and I was it was a family wedding and I got there late and I was like I don't know where everyone is I can't find anyone and then I just saw my mum on the dance floor like like really going for it on the dance floor and she wasn't really with anyone she was just there and I was like whoa that's so weird she dances like me and then I was just thinking like oh my god I wonder how many generations back of people danced this very

like way that she danced I was thinking like the things they did for fun because we always talk about their trauma we never talk about like what they did for enjoyment like even like

you know my dad really liked taking photographs growing up so he's got like photo albums like he did all these weird self-portraits of himself and like made these little films and like that's what he did for fun and like what did my mum do for fun

where was her fun well this is the other thing isn't it it's like you're so right because when I think back to my mum and my mum's mum and my mum and like what did my mum do for fun where was her fun well this is the other thing isn't it it's like you're so right because when I think back to my mum and my mum's mum and my mum and my nanny's mum

I just think of the trauma and how sad it must be but surely they would have had light moments certainly when they were with their family certainly maybe before they were married

what did they do for fun what made them laugh but they like light up like we light up when they talk about being around their families like my mum's always like oh when we were like kids

we used to like run to my uncle's house and because he worked in the cinema he used to work in the cinema he used to get these reels of film and bring them and project them on the house and they would get there oh my god i love it watching films and i was like that's like the most magical yeah it sounds amazing and she like loves being around her family that's what makes her happy basically in conclusion with our ancestors especially the female ones pre-marriage happy post-marriage over so the

learning from today's episode is don't get married I was just about to say that do not live in sin I'm joking don't live in sin

or drive to the partnership drive to the partnership yeah well yeah whatever works for you man just do whatever makes you happy you know and break the cycle

and keep talking, right? That's right. And carry the smiles of your mother rather than the tears. And yeah, definitely. Remember the good times. Yeah. We used to go to the beach a lot. There's this place in Morocco we always used to go to,

always growing up. Agadir? No. The only place that she and I know other than Marrakesh. No, it's called Larache. 99% of the people from from Moroccans from West London are from there I think that's another

thing I've carried though the like desire for sunshine yes oh god yeah and I'm always like I've always said to my partner I was like we need to turn the heating on

he's like it's fine I'm like sorry my people come from hot climates I'm used to hotter results of food well you know like what you said as well you know like

when you're eating something and you like I can tell stuff in food I can be like oh my god there's cinnamon in this oh my god there's turmeric in this I can tell you know like and it brings're eating something and you, like, I can tell stuff in food, I can be like, oh my God, there's cinnamon in this. Oh my God, there's turmeric in this.

I can tell, you know, like, and it brings you back. It brings you back to. Smells and tastes do that. Definitely. There's nothing like your mum's food, man. Oh my God. And everyone does a mum off, don't they? My mum's cooking is better.

Yeah. My mum's cooking is actually better. Mum of Barney's dropped off the map. Mum of Barney. She kicked me on. I was like, mum, what is this? Oh. Just the last one? Just the last one. Just the last one.

Oh my God. That is so. My mum calls us before she's going to come over and be like, get your orders in. What does everyone want? Get your orders in.

My mum, she cooked couscous the other week and she was like, Fetha, because I live, I live on my own. And she's like,

Fetha, do you want some? And I'm like, no, mum, it just makes me sad. I like to eat when we're all together. Yeah.

And then you just overeat all the stuff they give you anyway. You take the Tupperwares and you're like, I'm going to share this. I'm going to share this. And by the time you've got home, they're empty. This is it. I've eaten. The card door and the other card door. And I do match as well.

I eat when our food's cooking, I'll be eating over the pan. She's like, Fethi, home. Oh my God, that's literally what I do. My mum would literally fry, put to the side. Then they'd be gone over the pan. She's like, fed it home. Oh my God, that's literally what I did. My mum would literally like, fry, put to the side, then they'd be gone. Fry, put to the side,

gone. Roti, hot roti, hot roti, done. On the butter, gone. It's like,

my mum's just like, disappearing out into the kitchen and everything just keeps going. I'm such a grazer. I'm like, I've always found, like with my mate, where you just eat as you go.

Whereas Asian mums, well, just ethnic mums, they're like, they cook the feast and they lay it out on the table and I'm just like but that like

love of food that greed that kind of hand that's so like that's a cultural thing like I remember going to when I went to university in Edinburgh

having dinner somebody had made a really nice Thai curry and I like put my finger on the plate and I took some sauce and I put it in my mouth

and this girl was like what are you doing and I was like oh god there was such a shame in eating with your hand I was like what are you doing yeah and I was like there was such a shame in eating with your hand I was embarrassed to eat with my hand there was such a shame

with like being greedy and like feeling satiated because I think all of us just talk and eat and talk and eat and talk and eat but that's the ethnic way like you're around a dinner table

there's only six of you but you could feed 50 and your mum would be embarrassed if there wasn't enough food and you talk and you eat and you talk some more and you go give me that or

thank you so much for coming on brown girls thank you for having me i've had a lovely time it's great to meet you and these i need to say these kind of platforms are really important because we're not there's no one type of brown girl we are women and we have different walks of life different experiences and they need to be shared we're not on our own there are other women like us and we need to share like speak you know what i mean we're always like you know as as ethnic women always like be quiet do good you know um don't shout back yeah oh you know don't be fiery don't be this don't be that and like and we're not you know we've got to be ourselves be true to yourself there are others like you you are perfect as you are.

There is nothing wrong with you. Like, just have it, bruv, innit? Have it, bruv. We all come from long ancestral roots. Humans have been on this planet for a long time and there's multiple traumas that our grandparents and parents have experienced and the stuff that we'll carry. But there's also traumas that our grandparents and parents have experienced and the stuff that we'll carry. But there's also all this good shit. And if you can carry

the good shit and like live your best life, that is the biggest justice you can do to your ancestors. Because they'll be looking down on you or looking up at you or... Seeing Mulan. Looking through you. Seeing Mulan and all the ancestors come out. Yes. Oh yeah. They'll look at it and be like, be your true self. If you can do, if you can remember the good shit, all the ancestors come out. Yes. Oh yeah. Be your true self.

If you can do, if you can remember the good shit, it helps you carry the bad shit. Yeah, I think that's great. That's a great piece of advice.

So. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you feel impacted by the conversation we just had, there are lots of great resources

available at bbc.co.uk forward slash action line. And if you have any thoughts or questions, you can email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bb you have any thoughts or questions you can email us at brown girls do it too at bbc.co.uk or you can send us a whatsapp or voice note to 07968 100 822