BTC Sessions - 6th LARGEST Wealth Fund ALL IN Bitcoin—Saylor WARNS | Tone Vays, Will Reeves, BJ Dichter

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

The 6th LARGEST wealth fund just went all in on Bitcoin, and Michael Saylor issues a major warning. Tone Vays, Will Reeves, and BJ Dichter break down what this could mean for the future of Bitcoin and global finance.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/ToneVayshttps://x.com/wlrvhttps://x.com/BJdichterFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCp#btc #bitcoin #crypto

Michael Saylor just told three of the wealthiest Middle Eastern nations to take their sovereign wealth funds, currently worth trillions, and buy all of the Bitcoin. Not a small allocation, not a cautious 1% hedge, everything. And of course, if that sounds outrageous, think about this. There were already rumors swirling just months ago that some of these very same nations that he mentioned have already quietly started stacking some Bitcoin. behind the scenes. Now, Sailor is making waves publicly. He, in a recent interview, called this the ultimate IQ test for the wealthiest nations on earth, a once-in-a-generation event that could turn their oil and gas profits into a financial empire and 10x, 100x, or even 1,000x, their wealth. We'll be watching that clip momentarily. The question is, have they already

started and if not what's stopping them this might be the biggest financial power play of the 21st century and we've got a killer panel to discuss this and much more today we've got tone vase independent content creator and producer of three events including unconfiscatable coming up may 30th in las vegas after the bitcoin conference we've also got will reeves founder and ceo of fold the first publicly traded bitcoin and financial services company, and BJ Dichter, author of Honking for Freedom, the trucker convoy that gave us hope. So stay tuned. You're not going to want to miss a beat.

I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your bullish session. All right. I want to welcome our guests to the stage, Tone Vase, BJ Dictor, and Will Reeves. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. How are you guys doing? We're great, man. Awesome.

Good, Ben. Awesome, awesome. Glad to have you guys. I want to play this, I want to play this Sailor clip for you guys so you can see what I'm talking about and who he was talking about. And I'll show you guys a couple things here. So this was very recently. I'll get us up on the side here so we can all be pretty beside Michael Saylor. But this is him on Saudi State TV talking about what they should do with their sovereign wealth funds. Let's take a listen. Pretty unstoppable. The White House has anointed it as the one sole digital commodity in the world that they recognize. That makes it digital gold. That makes it ethical. And so if the most powerful man in the world says it's digital gold and says, don't sell your Bitcoin and we're going to buy more, I think that the last hurdle has been leaked in terms of on the path of legitimacy. So tell me if you're a sovereign wealth fund, Saudi Arabia, the United Emirates. Kuwait, how would you be diversifying that portfolio? How much Bitcoin would you own? All of it? Look, to tell you the truth, I always want, I think it's kind of an IQ test. It's like if you had a billion dollars and you wanted to double it, you would buy the billion dollars of Bitcoin and put out a press release.

But if you wanted to make a trillion dollars, you would try to buy as much as my company has right now. You go buy $50 billion worth of Bitcoin and just keep buying, and it'll be a trillion. to you. So you ought to buy as much as you want money, right? Yeah. I think that my forecast for Bitcoin is it goes up 29% a year compounded for 21 years, which is going to be three, four times better than the next best thing. So, yeah, I could tell you, you have put 5% of your portfolio in it, but smarter would be to put 150% of your portfolio in it. If you want to 10x your money, you buy Bitcoin. If you want $100,000,000, you buy Bitcoin. If you want $100,000, extra money, you buy Bitcoin with somebody else's money. And if you want a thousand extra money,

use somebody else's money, buy Bitcoin, and you lever it, right? The simplest thing going is borrow money at three, four, five percent, invested at 30 to 60 percent. Keep the difference. My company went from a $600 million enterprise value to $108 billion enterprise value in four and a half years. And we just did that formula. We're just levering it. So I think as much as you get is the right answer now i just want to quickly uh show the the countries he was talking about their sovereign wealth funds so uh he said what abou dabbi kuwait and uh sorry yeah uh uae kuwait and saudi arabia they are ranked fourth fifth and sixth in terms of sovereign wealth funds interestingly norway does have exposure to bitcoin through micro strategy itself uh even

though they've poohed on the idea of actually owning Bitcoin, they're still getting exposure to it. Those rumors that were circulating were back in November as we were kind of having that post-Trump pump. There was speculation that it might be UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia that had been quietly stacking stats. and we seemed to get some confirmation from Coinbase, head of strategy at Coinbase Institutional, just a couple weeks ago, not specifically of who, but he did say that the pools of capital that have been buying while retail was scaling out of the ETFs

have been sovereign wealth funds, institutions, again, large institutional, long-term, duration pools of capital, sovereign wealth funds, all these different things. He just didn't say who exactly. So I'm curious to get you guys takes on this, on the interview, just in general, the idea of sovereign wealth funds. Maybe tone, I'll toss to you first. Any thoughts on what you just heard? Sure. Look, Say, Sailor is not wrong. You leverage US dollars to acquire as many Bitcoin as possible. It's actually interesting. Like a lot of people, he's asking me, like is sailor running a Ponzi scheme?

And the answer is no, because he's just, you know, leveraging the fiat to hold on to the Bitcoin. Now, there are, of course, concerns because he's not holding on to the Bitcoin private keys, which is a big concern of mine. So it could look like he's in a Ponzi scheme if all of a sudden he can't access the Bitcoin that he thinks that he owns and suddenly he's got to pay something back and he can't get access to it and suddenly it looks and feels like a Ponzi scheme but but in general i mean i hope he's advising these sovereign wealth funds to actually hold on to their private keys because they can i mean he's

not holding on to the bitcoin for perhaps some legal reasons or uh corporate reasons or whatever the reason is but My bigger concern is, I mean, this is all great, but if you're not holding on to your own private keys, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Now, very few people are completely crazy to have all of their wealth in Bitcoin. I mean, there's probably, you know, it's possible that it's 4-4 on this show. But in general, that is a bad idea. I personally would never advise a sovereign wealth fund to put everything into Bitcoin, maybe 10%, 20%, maybe as much as 30%, but I wouldn't go all in because there are other obligations and bear markets do happen and they can't happen unpredictably.

And not to mention that what we just went through, right? Everyone thought we were going to go higher. Bitcoin fell about 30, 35. percent from 109,000 down to 72. And if you're the person that got in at 105 thinking that it's going to 200, you're probably the one selling at 75 and suddenly it's back to 103 again. So I always tell people to ease into it until you get the confidence that it's okay to hold on to more than you probably should have originally. does pay off in the long run, but you need the confidence in the Bitcoin ecosystem that you can

hold through the bare markets and someone that got convinced by some guy on a podcast to buy more than you should, you're not going to have the confidence to hold through a downturn of 20%. So I would advise a little bit differently, but Sailor is Sailor. So it's, hey, it's good for all of us if a multi-billion dollar sovereign wealth fund goes all in. It's great for us. It's just I would be a little more rational about this. BJ, are you one of the four for four crazy 100% in or where are you at? And I guess to the topic at hand, what's your general feel on the idea of sovereign wealth

funds, nation states, like entering the. Bitcoin game because you know, you and I had our for a with governments and we were able to utilize Bitcoin in a way to get around draconian overreach. And now we see governments saying, huh, we should own some of this. So like how what's your general feel here? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, you never think you'd be in this place. Let me backtrack a little bit. For the past several months, I've been giving talks in the U.S., particularly Florida, with people who are, let's say, adjacent, and some of them involved in the Trump administration. And this is a good example of, I mean, many of what we see are good examples of if you know the news stories, that doesn't really tell anything. You've got to know who's behind the news.

And one of the things I've learned is that Jared Kushner, who is very close, he's like the most senior advisor to Trump behind the scenes. He knows everything about Bitcoin and crypto and that whole space. He is well versed and has been well versed for quite some time. And he also is very close personal friends with MBS, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. And that's why you're seeing a lot of this movement. In terms of sailor saying put everything in, I mean, that is, he is, him and Trump both do this very well using hyperbole as a persuasion tactic. And I think that's what you're seeing. In terms of governments custodian, you know, Bitcoin in their sovereign wealth fund, honestly, I don't care.

I mean, it's good for Bitcoin. It's great for us. If the government makes money or not, I could really care less at this point. As long as it's not become, it's not a tool of leverage that they can use against us, which we all know can't be because of the nature of Bitcoin and its decentralized properties and nobody controls. So, okay, good, fine. I really have a problem with it.

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Hey, DJ, I couldn't agree more. I was never on the let's get government to buy Bitcoin train. Like all of these state bills that are coming out, like I don't care. Like I actually don't care It was the same view when people When a software came out the book that

What's his name? Jason Lowry's book, right? Like I didn't read the book But I knew about the book. I know what the book's about. I don't need to read it. And I remember What's his name? Greg Foss.

Apparently for Greg Foss That was like the greatest thing ever written. And I remember how high he was in that book. And I said straight up, I'm on the other side of this argument. And I never really cared about that book. And my argument was very, very simple. Jason Lowry is a military person. And he views the world that the U.S. military is a force of good.

And he wrote a book to help the U.S. military be stronger by acquiring Bitcoin. and my argument was, I see the U.S. military is a force of evil. And the last thing I want to do is help the U.S. military be stronger. I really don't care for that. So I'm not in a rush to get governments to buy more Bitcoin. Bitcoin will do its thing no matter what. So I couldn't agree more. Will, I want to get your thoughts on everything that's been said here.

I mean, buy it all. what he said. It takes me back to so many friends and family gatherings over the years after, you know, probably too many drinks getting down to it. How much should I buy? Just buy it all. You know, if I didn't have it on good authority that they were already seriously in accumulating Bitcoin at in that area of the world, I would say Saylor just went on state television just did an remarkable job, you know, Jedi mind tricking the sovereigns to just YOLO into Bitcoin, he always, I think, is very effective in that way. But I think you mentioned an interesting point is that you look at the top sovereign wealth funds and you have Netherlands,

also an oil producing country, but one that said no to Bitcoin, but what do they say? They said yes to microstreptu. They said yes to Sailor. And I think half of this is really about, hey, if I get them to buy Bitcoin excellent, but there's a really good chance that people are going to short and they're going to say, hey, I think it's, it makes more sense for us to buy strategy. And he, I think he knows it well. I think it's a, you couldn't have a larger buyer of your equity. And, you know, he gets to remain on brand, on narrative saying buy Bitcoin, but, you know, functionally a lot of these sovereigns and we're seeing at, you know, corporate level as well, we're seeing it on Bitcoin Twitter as well.

Some people would open their brokerage and just would prefer to buy a leverage Bitcoin equity on the stock. And so I know there's a little bit of self-servingness going on there. But, you know, overall, you know, we talk about keys. A lot of, you know, a lot of criticism on Sailor, does he hold the keys or not? He's giving it a wall the way to Coinbase. I think it enters an entirely new level when you have sovereigns thinking about saving or investing in Bitcoin. You cannot have a sovereign country who is having, letting a essentially a corporation of, you know,

one of the largest, the largest, most powerful country on earth hold the keys. I think it becomes an interesting question of, you know, how can you even make this call when you're not holding the keys as a sovereign and you're letting a U.S.-based corporation like Coinbase do it? Now, Michael Saylor is an American with an American company, so maybe we can, you know, let that slide. But I think at the sovereign level,

it's almost inexcusable not to hold your keys in that way for, you know, especially to your own citizens when making that type of choice. And so it's going to be interesting. Who's going to be demanding it? I'm not sure like BJ was talking about. Who's behind really pushing these decisions? A lot of them are going to help glide path these and actually how are they going to be done? How are they going to be bought?

Where is it going to be stored? And I don't know if anyone's making the case that the Saudis or, you name it, sovereign country should be holding their keys because there's massive risk at Coinbase. And today I think Coinbase just came out and said they have over 20% of Bitcoin supply or something insane. I forget what it was, 13%, maybe something like that, hundreds of thousands. And they, you know, I think that's going to be a question that whether we're not asking that now, there's going to be some hard lessons to learn in the future. Not long ago, International Gold Reserve, the war kicked off.

It's an inexcusable thing to let your country be exposed to that risk when you're making that big of a decision. Yeah. Yeah, it's again, like as soon as, as soon as the U.S. said to Russia, hey, we're, you know, we're freezing any of your, your ass, we're freezing your dollars and everything like that set the president moving forward. Like, hey, you know, if you're going to hold anything, then you've got to, you've got to have custody of it. So, yeah, I totally, totally get that. Yeah, I, and I would echo what everybody's saying. A lot of people I'll often see in the comments, like, why are we celebrating corporations and countries getting into Bitcoin? And my answer to that is that I'm not necessarily celebrating that they are getting into Bitcoin. I'm celebrating that game theory is playing out. And it's pretty obvious that what we thought was coming in that Bitcoin was going to be an important part of the world is very clearly playing out. And we're seeing indications of that from people whose job it is to try and retain purchasing power or grow purchasing power.

Right. Like that's their very job. And so, yeah, I think this will continue to play out. And, you know, I just my favorite, one of my favorite things to ruin somebody's quote or try to paraphrase it. But Jeff Booth always says, like, you know, one of the most difficult things about being in Bitcoin is, is understanding and being okay with the fact that your enemy using Bitcoin actually makes it better and stronger for yourself. And so this is just a reality. Bitcoins are going to have to live with forever. But with that, I'm going to put a bow on this topic.

And we need to get into the meat of the show because the reason we're here is to find out why you guys are bullish. And so, Tone, I'm looking at you first. I'm going to give you the same question. Everyone gets served. Why are you bullish? All right.

Well, there are fundamental reasons, of course, to be bullish. We are in that perfect part of the cycle, the four-year cycle. I know there's a debate. Is there a four-year cycle? Is there not a four-year cycle? I'm still on that four-year cycle train.

I don't see why it would go away. And to me, a four-year cycle means that in a four-year pyramid between the two, between the havings, we get a bull market and a bear market. And we are so far lagging all prior bull markets at this point in time. So from a cycle perspective, we are way lagging behind. And I think we're just starting to pick up steam. We're Trump getting elected and is good for. Bitcoin and I actually went back to this video. I did a video I think maybe about two months before

the election and there was a political video about the election and it was like reasons to vote for Kamala and reasons to vote for Trump and I just went back to it and my number one reason to vote for Trump was actually that it would be bullish for Bitcoin and I'm very disappointed with the current administration and everything that they have done since getting election. It's still probably the better choice over the other option. But it is still good for Bitcoin, even though obviously that your federal government does not buy in Bitcoin. I mean, they had that shit coin event over at the capital. That was hilarious.

And so that's still pretty bullish. The possibility that he's going to significantly lower taxes, he probably won't, but there is a choice. there is a chance he's going to lower taxes because if he's going to rack up tariffs, the only way to counterbalance that is to drop investment taxes like capital gains. Like imagine if capital gains drops from 20% to 5%. That would be absolutely incredible. And as a technical analyst, as a trader for 25 years now, I got to go back to the charts. I can do a quick screen share.

I know my audience would love it. And I'll just, let me see. Once you got it, I'll pull it up. This tab here and share. I go to my chart. So you're in control there. And yeah, let me know when my charts are on the YouTube channel. Yeah, I got it up here.

So as a chartist, this is as bullish as it gets from a chart. charting perspective we are about about to break the prior swing high i mean i have my own indicators of green star candles uh if i go to a two-month chart and i this was actually written in bitcoin magazine and uh this is a two-month chart one of my uh someone that i do charting analysis with pointed it out so you see the blue circles it's uh it's not often that a two-month chart has this green star candle which is part of my indicator and every time this green star candle has shown up Bitcoin has always done a hundred percent move or greater and uh we had the green star candle on a two-month chart and this was back in the September candle

And like you can either take the moment the green star showed up. The green star shows up when the current candle breaks the prior candles high, which means it showed up at 65,000. So from 65,000, we are close to that 100% move or greater. But even if you enter it at the very end of the candle, now you're entering at 70,000. So that means it's a move to 140. And we're continuing to be on the way.

I became super, super bullish at that level. The Green Star Candle also came on this breakout. One of my favorite trades is the breakout trade when we have a consolidation. The only time in Bitcoin's history where this trade failed was in October, November of 2021. That is the only time. The best time to buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin is when it breaks the all-time high after several months of not breaking it. And we just had that again.

We're on the verge of breaking that again. Right now, we're breaking that all-time high or about to. We're only $5,000 away from breaking the all-time high after several months of a pullback. And this is as bullish of a situation as it gets. It's one of the safest trades you can make. And just from a TA perspective, no matter what time frame I use, whether it's the weekly timeframe, the daily time frame, the monthly time frame, everything is bullish right now. I still think the real bullishness won't start until late summer fall.

I could be wrong. We could be all the way at 120 next week. I still think we're going to pull back. I still think when it gets stuck between 95 and 105 for most of the summer, and then break above that 105 level and go all the way to 125, maybe even 150. And if I look at the longer term picture with the cycle chart, and this is what I mean about the cycle, this is that time where we have the final push into a top. And you can see all prior cycles.

The red one is the original, the first. four years. So right here, this is September of 2011 when we reach like $30 or something. Yeah, $30. And the blue is the second cycle. So the blue is 2012 to 2016. The green is 2016 to 2020. And the purple is the last four years, 2020 to 2024. So we are in this zone of where we make a top. So the top has historically come in between March, so two months ago, up through October. I think we're going to last a little bit past October. And I mean, I just, I don't see how we don't break 200,000 on this move over the next, say, six to 12 months. So just based on cycles alone, this is the time for us to rise.

So I'm really bullish from a technical reason and a general cycle. I wouldn't call it fundamental. But yeah, everything is going for it, including the current administration is very pro-Bitcoin. And we got three more years of that. All right. I'm going to leave it here. So go ahead and cut screen share, I guess. Yeah.

From a TA perspective, I'm loving it. right now. I've got a question for you. So the one time that it failed at the end of 2021, would you attribute that to the fact that, well, to a couple of factors. One was the China mining ban and two would have been FTX pretending to buy Bitcoin when there was indeed demand? Maybe. So the China mining band prevented us from having a proper top. earlier. So we topped in April of 21 at about 65,000 and then the China mining ban dropped us 50% into the $30,000 range. And then going into November of 2021, we broke that high of 65,000 and went to 69. I

Markets don't top like that And usually when you fall 50% And you make it back to the top six months later And you break that top You keep going My worst case scenario at that point was 85 And even that was very, very conservative I don't have a good explanation

it really was a bit of an anomaly. It could have been the fake buying at FTX that at that point they couldn't fake buy anymore. Look, we can blame FTX, we can blame Celsius, we can blame all kinds of stuff. But from a charting perspective, I mean, all that doesn't matter. I mean, it's just making excuses.

I don't make excuses. I will admit I was super bullish in November of 2021. And we topped in a way from a technical analysis perspective. Based on my, everyone has their own technical analysis view. I'm sure there's a trader out there that called out top perfectly. I did not. From my view, I was as bullish as it gets. And I'll be right nine out of ten times and I was the one time I was wrong.

I, uh, I, there's, there's an accusation tone in, in the, in the chat and it says, and it says, Tone says, don't put everything in Bitcoin, then says it's going to double by your end. Tone wants to buy all of the Bitcoin. I think it might be on the money there, but nonetheless, BJ, I want to. What's that? But what we just described, right? Like, I thought we were going to double in November of 2021 and we top at that moment, right? So that's the reason you don't put everything into Bitcoin, no matter how confident you are that it's going to double, the one time you put everything in and you leverage, that's the one time it's wrong, right? It only takes one bad investment decision to ruin you, no matter how many good investment decisions

you've made in your life. Do you want to know how I, in hindsight, knew it was the top in 2021? I was I was super drunk on whiskey with my friend and we were celebrating with an all-time high rye once again. And I was on a rant and I remember I blurrally remember multiple times saying it's like a cheat code for life. And that was a very clear indication that it was it was the top. So nonetheless, I want to, BJ, I mean, if, I know, we're not chartists. We don't have the skill set.

But, you know, what's your feeling? Are you feeling just to tag on to the pure price perspective? Are you feeling good about this year? What's the read? Well, I'll tell you what's interesting. You know, I have a brother who runs a very large pension fund. So I have exposure to charting technical analysis and evaluation of securities and stuff. And what's very interesting, as Tone just went through that and showed us the chart and explained that when you hit all time high after, you know, a very long, bearous cycle, that's the best time to buy.

It's one of those things. You can tell somebody's really good at doing analysis. When they show you something and you tell, they tell you something, you don't need to go to confirm it. you can just feel back that wait, that's actually right. I can feel it. You've been in Bitcoin long enough that your subconscious just knows that, oh, yeah, everything he just 100% right. I remember going through that in previous cycles.

So good on you, Tone. That was you just, I think you just sparked a lot of interest in a lot of us that you just articulated what many of us were thinking in the back of our heads and just gave us us some added confidence. So yeah, I mean, obviously we're, that's another reason, just another reason to be bullish on it. But in terms of technical analysis, that's when I look at people like tone who do it. I'm like, oh, yeah, I have no clue what to do. You know, I think I'm going to TA, you know, do the charts. And then he comes along and like, okay, I'm just going to go mosey on and do my other work sort of thing. You know, you know, the one group of there's a few people that

I'll say we'll have you beat. That's 58K gang, the most long-term right people for a number of years. But other than that, I haven't seen better TA than 58K gang, 58K forever. So, Will, how about yourself? How are you feeling about this year before we get into a, before we do a rotation and get BJ's reason for being bullish after the break? I want to hear what's what's what's your pulse you're now again first publicly traded bitcoin financial services company so you probably have a little bit of a feel of what the the pulse on

retail and everything is going on so how's it feel I mean I think there's there's a lot of ways to go at this because you know Tone started off saying he's disappointed and where we're at with the current administration you know I I still fail to see how there could be a more bullish setup over the last six months. And I don't, I think it's in spite of all the fumblings from an administration. We're at the point where now we're just seeing the inevitability play out. And it's when you start getting a lot of people mad about sovereigns adopting or Michael sailors buying too much or, you know, but what you're seeing today is I think one of the

biggest examples. Coinbase just added 2,000 Bitcoin to their balance sheet. And they recently had a conversation with Brian Armstrong, he was saying over the last 12 years, multiple times we said, should we put 80% of our treasury into Bitcoin? In the company that was at the center of Bitcoin adoption was able to see the data never did it. They never did it over those last 12 years. If they had, they could very well have completely outpaced Michael Saylor. And we may not have ever heard of someone like Michael Saylor making that play. And so I just love seeing the world capitulate. It does mean that you will have enemies of your enemies of your enemies also using Bitcoin. But at the end of the day, what are we seeing at fold dramatically new openness to

partnerships to collaborations with the world outside of Bitcoin. So traditional financial companies, retail partners, but we're also seeing a lot of new retail entrance into the space. Now, it hasn't kind of gotten that blow off the top moment that, you know, we got in the 2021 or the previous 2017 cycle, but we are seeing the rumblings there. And so I think the spring is absolutely loaded. Again, the tones charting just gets me bullish every time. I'm looking forward to a good summer. Nice. Summer, you know, I wouldn't mind instead of a hot girl summer and up only summer,

but we'll see what happens. Maybe we can get both. If it's up only summer, then it's hot girl summer all around too. So, don't go. Ben, let me just comment on what was said. So I should have come on on two things. real quick, and I know I'm getting a bunch of crap in the live chat about me being very upset at the Trump administration.

Like I said, the main reason to vote for Trump was Bitcoin price go up and Bitcoin price is up, even though we did have a little bit of a dip. We do have the most Bitcoin-friendly bullish administration, but I am not happy with the Trump administration for everything else that it's doing. This is not a political show. My personal channel has gone political. And considering I lost so much of my audience by being very pro-Trump and very anti-everything else.

And now I'm going to start doing videos that are anti-Trump. So I'm going to lose the other 50% of my audience very soon. I am just very, very upset on everything else that he's doing. But I'll stay up for another show. And the other thing I want to mention on Coinbase and Brian Armstrong. So the way I described Brian Armstrong is imagine Jeff Bezos, but a Jeff Bezos in an ultimate reality that hates online shopping with a passion and wishes it never existed, right? Like that's how I describe Brian Armstrong. Brian Armstrong hates Bitcoin to such a passion.

He wishes it never existed. It's actually sad that Brian Armstrong is running a company like Coinbase. So the fact that they have never held Bitcoin in their strategic reserve doesn't surprise me one bit. I mean, you are talking about a person that was pro Bitcoin Cash, that was pro Segwa 2X. He's done everything in his power to try and eliminate Bitcoin to have shit coins rule the world. And yet, the only reason why his company so popular is because of Bitcoin. And maybe he finally gets it. Maybe, but it did take 10 years.

Yeah. The opportunity cost of their actions over the past decade or more. And then having sailor swoop in and within a couple, you know, a few short years, completely just decimate them with just a simple strategy of just buying Bitcoin. And they built this entire casino with all these employees. and everything like and and the magic thing was just yeah just do offer a service and and stack bitcoin and spend less than you earn like it was just such such a simple formula and they somehow shit the bed on that for 16 years yeah you can't be blocked on Twitter for most of those 16

years by don't hey awesome awesome well uh great topic enjoyed this uh again it's not often that i get somebody that can come on and get me bullish on a chart, but I appreciate that. So, gents, we're going to do a rotation here. We're going to do a quick shoutout, quick sponsor shoutout before we do. Everybody that is watching live, of course, thank you for being here. Give that like button smash if you're enjoying the conversation. Also, grab out your lightning wallets because on the other side of the jump, we're going to give away some stats, and we're going to find out why BJ is so damn bullish.

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I'm over here on Bitcoin. Well, by the way, awesome place to stack stats in Canada and the U.S. There's a QR code there if you want to check them out and give them a try. If you do, right away, you'll get some points to potentially win some. some sats, but we're going to give away some right now. All you need is a lightning wallet. The way it works is when you sign up, when you buy Bitcoin, when you refer friends, you get points. You can use those points to toss a coin in the well and win up to a million sats every time. Or you can redeem them for swag now as well. But we're going to toss a coin in the well.

Whoever scans it first steals the sats from everyone else. So we'll toss that in. I'll get this one out of the way. and if you do win, let us know in the chat at the side. We'd love to hear it. 586 sats for whoever scans it first. So best of luck to everybody. And with that, BJ, I am looking at you. Same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish?

Well, a couple of things. I just want to make sure everybody knows instead of thank you to you, Ben, because Pubby says he got out of doing the dishes because of the live stream. Perfect. I'd love to hear it. I'm glad Pubby is here. He also just gave a shout out to Charlie Lee for dumping his light coin bank for $332.2. So, shout out Charlie Lee. And I was so lost. I had some light coin at that time because somebody convinced me about, you know, the silver to Bitcoin's gold. And then the guy just dumps it. And I'm like, what the hell?

You literally got dumped on by Charlie Lee himself. Oh, I had a bunch of it. I was confused. I didn't know. Nobody did. Nobody did. Well, some people did, but it wasn't common knowledge. We didn't yet have a decisive, you know, Bitcoin maximalist textbook in the Bitcoin standard yet. That was released in 2018. So like there was, you know, there was there was the workings of Bitcoin only, but there wasn't yet like the common knowledge or the ability to come across that, that vein of thought as, easily back then. So understandable. Anyways, BJ, I digress. Yeah. Well, Charlie Lee dumping his bags on everybody is a good way to make you a Bitcoin maxi. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, it's funny. For me, it's all cultural framing and how things have, have changed. Um, you know, I just did a two hour long interview with Adam Meister earlier today, uh, that we recorded. I'm going to release on, or,

we're going to release on Sunday and Monday. And it's very interesting to talk with people like Tone and Adam and get a view of the world from their eyes, even though they were here, you know, we're here. Some of us were there earlier, but they were even a couple of years early than we were, right? And so much has changed culturally. It's the framing where we are in the world. Like, I got involved in politics like an idiot because I thought, you know, getting involved in politics, you can usher in some positive change. Boy, was I wrong? But I learned about all the corruption and how it works, right? And when I ran, I ran federally for Parliament in Canada. And what I ran in 2015, I couldn't tell anybody I had Bitcoin. If I told, if anyone knew, you have to, like,

when you run in politics in Canada, you got to do a screening. There's an application. It was, if I remember correctly, 72 pages long. Everything in your life, your financial history, if you have a criminal background, everything, social media, you name it, takes days to do it. So I just omitted the fact that I have Bitcoin, forgot to tell them. But if they had found out, I would have been instantly disqualified. And here we are today where the political class is tripping over itself to figure out how can we utilize Bitcoin, obviously for themselves, but to better things in places around the world. That's why you're seeing this sovereign wealth fund idea. And it's often being perpetuated by people who hated Bitcoin, right?

Remember how vicious they were towards Bitcoin just a few years ago, people on Wall Street now. And look, whether their intentions are good or not, I don't know. I can't read their minds. But the fact that they are forced to completely pivot 180 degrees and get on side with Bitcoin, those sorts of cultural shifts have had a major impact. And that is, and I'm sure you've seen it now too, I know about you, but when I mentioned Bitcoin, now to people who are non-bitcoinsers. Remember that dismissive, arrogant, smug attitude we used to get, oh, you're a bitcoiner. That's completely gone. Now it's curiosity. Now it's, wait, I think people are

making money in Bitcoin. Tell me more. And one of these presentations I made in the United States, one was a couple of hours long. It was about the political instability in Canada, something you and I are intimately aware of. One of the people at the end, end, and I always mentioned Bitcoin. In every presentation I talk politically, I'll always mention Bitcoin when it's relevant, my soft orange bill. And one of the guys, very, very wealthy, older guy in his 70s, late 70s maybe, came up to me after and he said, you know, I get it.

I don't really know what Bitcoin is, but I know it's important. I understand what it's supposed to be. How can I get it? Should I just buy a million dollars of Bitcoin tomorrow? Like, what do I do? And I'm like, listen, why don't I just come to your house? Let's buy, let's get you a wallet. I'll send you 100 bucks and we'll start there.

That could never have happened just a few years ago. And now we see movement, obviously BlackRock with their ETF. And we see what? There's capital inflows, what $2.5 billion total is, I mean, tone can give this. specifics on it. Invidia is now considering it and is getting very close to putting it on their balance sheet. And it's all this long-term money that I never would have imagined getting into the space. You know, my brother, I mentioned before, runs a very large pension fund. And so I would always ask him when I see him, I would mention Bitcoin, just to kind of, what's the word on the street

on Bay Street, which is Canada's Wall Street for the Americans who are watching. And, you know, he would frequently say to me that, well, you know, we're a pension fund. We're going to be the absolute last financial institution or segment of the financial industry. That's going to get into Bitcoin. Like that's, he didn't say it's never going to happen. But he basically inferred that many times. I just don't ever see that happening. But guess what?

Now they're being asked about it by their clients. And all of this has proven the robustness of the Bitcoin protocol. And the entire world doesn't matter your left or right, up, down, doesn't matter. Everybody is now understanding that this might be the tool, really, that saves us, that saves a lot of us. if that is not a reason to be bullish, all of what I just outlined, I don't know what it is. I'm going to be going back to Florida speaking at Bitcoin Day in Tampa. June 14th, by the way, if you're in Florida, come join us. And I'm also going to be getting together with some people and giving a talk on geopolitical issues and all that sort of stuff.

I know that those people I previously would have just completely ignored the word. The word Bitcoin was like kryptonite for those people because they're high net worth people. They benefited from the current system. But now, you know, because governments and sovereign wealth funds, like I'm not, I'm not completely there with tone that I think governments are, you know, it's not, it's the empire with Darth Vader and the SIFLords running it. I think government is just a system. And there's good people and bad people that get involved in the government. and I know because I've seen behind the curtain. But the fact that government and these institutions are being very aggressive getting into the Bitcoin space,

you know what that does? It gives it credibility to the normies. It allows me now to talk to my parents about Bitcoin in a way that now they understand. They don't understand how it works, but it's a new financial tool that never existed. And the parallel that I drew for them a while ago was, you know, in their generation, they're not even Boomer. They're a little bit older than Boomer, but many of their friends became very wealthy by investing in Templeton. Remember in the 90s? That was the rage. Everybody was losing their minds of Templeton because for 30 years they got a gazillion percent return on their interest on their investment portfolio.

Well, now I've equated it to that, that the modern. you know, monetary system, what you're seeing from Bitcoin, that's this era's Templeton. And when I frame it that way, all of a sudden, now I got their interest. It's never been so easy to orange pill people. And nobody loves orange-pilling people like puppy, by the way. That is true. I've got to say, I'd echo the fact that because it's so, often like just casually mentioned in the news like very matter of fact now it's no longer if if it gets

brought up it's very seldom now oh you're the crazy person in the room right yeah it's like there's still a lot of people have no idea have no bitcoin no meaningful allocation to it but there's definitely a curiosity instead of a what are you trying to sell me kind of attitude they're no They're no longer arrogant and dismissive. They're in some cases I've noticed a little bit embarrassed, that they don't understand it. So they're afraid to get into the conversation. I've seen that quite a bit. Yeah, it's the meme.

You know, I don't understand Bitcoin. And at this point, I'm too afraid to ask like that. Exactly. Yeah, it's pretty much that. I do want to, you mentioned that you just had a chat with Adam Meister. And given the people that are in the room, I just wanted to do a throwback. I think this was 20, too, but Tone, this is a picture of you, me, and Adam in Miami that I will pull back.

So, yeah, I think that would have been, that must have been, yeah, it was the first time in the big, the big Miami conference hall there. But yeah, throwback to that. And shout out to Adam Meister. But I want to get thoughts here. I'm going to go to Will first. Well, like, I mean, you're probably seeing this too. It's because of the coverage that Bitcoin's getting, it's becoming a lot.

I mean, again, with what you do, it's easier to have that conversation with people that maybe haven't been around Bitcoin before. Yeah, I think the way I think about it is that, you know, over the last eight months or so, the career risk and social risk calculation of promoting or representing or further. Bitcoin has completely flipped or is in the midst of flipping. What that means is the those in positions of decision-making power who are in bureauc-corporate bureaucracies, organizational, larger public bureaucracies, it's been a pretty safe bet to say, hey, not interested in Bitcoin, that we're good the way it is. Your paycheck's still coming in. No one's going to fire you. You made the right choice on a, you know, and given down five, five, 10 percent swing. That now is flipping where the opportunity of not pursuing or being ready is now flipping where heads are going to roll when they are not making these decisions.

People are going to get fired because they didn't have a forward-looking Bitcoin strategy. And I think that's going to be a healthy turnover. You know, we have to, you know, some people say, you know, what's the best way to get major change through? society, it's well, wait 40 years for the generation above you to die. And in this case, it is the career risk of is being moved. And that actually comes down to the social level where the social risk, supporting it, educating about it, has that calculation is also flipped in terms of, are you going to put your social capital on taking over a conversation about Bitcoin today?

Or you're going to just keep it cool and let the meme of the guy, you know, what happened on, uh, how do the, you know, how do the sports team do yesterday? So I think it's a thing that we're going to see accelerating, but at all levels, that career risk is gone. And very soon, very soon, it's going to be career risk to not have been out in front of us. We've had over a decade. Yeah, I mean, though, even you had just recently, I think it was Larry Fink, BlackRock, saying like, it's no longer, is, is it risky to hold Bitcoin? It's like the perception is going to shift into being it is risky to not have some exposure to Bitcoin. That's that's going to be the

shift there. But anyways, I'll toss it up to a tone as well to get your thoughts. But is there a specific question? Well, I mean, just in general, like the the ease with which, you know, the ease with which it is, you're able to have conversations with people in and around Bitcoin, the acceptance of Bitcoin as as a, hey, it's, it's, it's just a thing that's around now as opposed to having to like you almost had to sell the idea of even talking about it to people before it was so much more i i stopped doing that a while ago while it is a much easier conversation now people you know right back then it was like socially proper to make fun of bitcoins and dismisses

Bitcoin and now it is socially proper to speak highly and positively about Bitcoin and yet the same person still has no idea what Bitcoin is, still has no idea how to acquire it, has no idea how to maintain their private keys. You know, the amount of people that know how to use Bitcoin properly has barely increased from six or seven years ago. And, uh, you know, And I think all of it is due to your channel, by the way. Whatever small percentage of people that know how to hold Bitcoin properly today versus seven, eight years ago, that entire small percentage of people is all due to your channel. But in general, it's now has become socially proper to not make fun of Bitcoiners, generally because they become. a lot wealthier than the person that used to make fun of them.

And but the person, the people still don't get it. And I don't think they will get it. So I got so frustrated trying to convince people to buy Bitcoin and then educating them on how to properly hold on to their Bitcoin. And 90% of the time, I just get, well, what about this shit? Bitcoin. And I just walk away. I walk away. Again, I just tell them, go watch BTC sessions. I, I believe alone. And so to me, I kind of mentally have checked out from the Bitcoin world, trying to convince people about it, how good it is, and why it's so important.

Because at this point, Bitcoin has become a common name, but people still don't know how to properly use it, but they'll use it eventually, right? Like, I'm sure there were internet conferences back in the day. I'm sure there was an expert that used to convince people to send emails instead of writing letters. But eventually those people moved on to other things with their life. And I think we're almost at that stage. and people will just use Bitcoin, and they never know the underlying proper reason. Hopefully some of them will.

But yeah, no, I agree with you, but I just don't waste my energy anymore trying to convince them. And a lot of other people do it at this point. I think I've adjusted where I focus my energy in that. I no longer care if somebody is is actively pushing against it. I'm like, okay, you know, don't buy it.

And I don't care if you don't buy it. But when somebody is, you know, I focus my energy on the person that's genuinely curious. So like how does this work? Like how do you get Bitcoin? Like stuff like that, I'm more than happy to like get into a conversation. be like, oh, it's cool. Like, you can just do this and that. Like, there's all these different things.

And without overwhelming them. And just conceptually, it's fun. I still get a kick of living vicariously through somebody who's discovering the why of Bitcoin for the first time. Seeing those aha moments of like, oh, holy shit. That's earth shattering for me. I think eventually, and this will be. to me it'll be a a celebration, but a

sad moment when like you said, tone, where the people will just use it because it's just a given that it's there and it works and it's kind of like, yeah, whatever, I don't know, it's always been around. When that happens, it's like, yeah, I'm obsolete,

which is welcome. That's totally fine because it means that mission accomplished. But I think that it'll also be a little bit of a oh, we no longer get to watch the excitement of people realizing that this is going to change the world because it's already changed. So it'll be a very different thing. Like Bitcoin conferences won't be a thing.

It'll just be, well, we just use this now. And so it'll be, this is a very special moment in time having been a part and continuing to be a part of watching the world change. with something that a number of us saw so early in the game and got to be the ones that were called crazy until we were the geniuses in the room. It's a very unique period of time. But, you know, I'll miss it. I'll miss it when it's gone.

Anyways, gents, we're going to do a final rotation here. We're going to do a quick shout out to our last sponsors here. as well, but we're going to be finding out, Will, why you are so bullish. Everybody that's watching, of course, please do smash that like button if you're enjoying the conversation. And we will return in just a moment to find out why Will is just so damn bullish. So we'll see in a second. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile, Aqua Wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full control of your

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And starting next month, we're giving away a cold card cue every single month to a random subscriber. So every single month, cold card queue, and you'll just get an email or notification from us. And then cold card will ship directly to you. So, yeah, head over BTCSessions.ca, or just scan that QR code and sign up for the newsletter. But with that, Will, you are up. You are our final bullish guest of the evening. So same question to you. Why are you bullish?

I mean, I think a lot of the headlines get grabbed by the Saudi sovereign wealth funds. Are they going to be investing? Is the U.S. going to be creating a strategic reserve? And I'm kind of partial the same thing. I didn't get into Bitcoin for governments to own it. But at the same time, it hits a little different. when the entities around you are doing it. And I love visiting businesses that are stacking Bitcoin and their treasury.

I will proactively use them and go with them versus an alternative. I like when my friend, Dave and Bitcoin. And I also like when local government does that as well. And I think there was a, it hits a little difference. And this week we had two states come out. And at least in some form having passing, fully passing, full in law, start investing at some level at the state treasury into Bitcoin. And I think it's poetic on who it was.

Number one, my current state of Arizona and New Hampshire, I think are low-key the bastions of liberty in the United States. And, you know, all the headlines go to Texas and maybe Wyoming and my own. Montana, but I've always been partial to New Hampshire and Arizona are truly the ones that carry that light. And so I thought it was very cool that they were the first ones to come out and do something official here. Now, I also know underneath the whole thing is a lot of politicians doing something very self-serving, know that they can court some good Bitcoin or donations, they can get a new voting cohort or electorate. And I'm happy for them. At the same time, I'm a little bit more interested when that happens closer to home. I love when those around me, the businesses

I visit and my local government are starting to look and invest in the Bitcoin. Those are the things that I think are going to set them up for long-term success. And if I'm living and around them and I rely on them, I'd like them to be on my side. So I'm very bullish on the states, even a level down of other elements of local government looking to save in Bitcoin and make that. And so pensions, BJ, like you said, might take a long time. But at the end of the day, this is an inevitable thing that's going on. And I know in the hopper, there's about 10 other states that will most likely come out over the next few months with similar legislation. So it's big.

And being from Arizona, got to be proud of the Grand Canyon state. Nice. I want to bring up the, there's a website that actually has a, all the state reserves and they're kind of where they're at. So you have Arizona and New Hampshire that have actually signed something into law. There were multiple bills that were going in Arizona. So that's why you see it a few times there. Texas, kind of at that second to last stage there.

And then you've got a ton of different states that are kind of just like a couple steps down the line. And, you know, a few have been slapped down. Funny enough, Will, I'm curious your take on because we also see Arizona here. And so it got vetoed. One of the bills got vetoed. And then there was a secondary one that came through that there's a little bit of nuance to it, a little bit different. But what was your take on the veto and then the passing of a different one? Ben, this is where it's one of those things where it behooves you just not to look too hard.

Because at the end of the day, what is this? This is a bill coming out of political machinations of people with, you know, strange incentives that you don't even know. And somehow we get one bill goes through and the other doesn't. And at the end of the day, I think the first bill that got struck down, the governor, Katie Hobbs famously said, we're not willing to put public funds into an untested asset. And that bill happened to allow Arizona to invest up to 10% of the state treasury or, you know, I believe it was the treasury into Bitcoin directly. And was a bill that allowed Arizona to invest unclaimed assets. So if someone has a tax refund that they never go and actually get in three years go by, it technically

goes back to the state and they'll invest that. So it's very much at the level of the strategic Bitcoin reserve for the U.S., which said, hey, we have a reserve here. And everyone's like, well, where did the Bitcoin come from? And everyone's, well, it came from Bitfinex and maybe Ross and a couple of other friends along the way. This is a similar vibe. And so I would say more than anything, we have to know that Bitcoin, people are going to be using Bitcoin for self-serving needs. And so politicians who actually don't really, may not actually really care about Bitcoin, but can think of it as a tool for their immediate needs,

you're going to get strange watered down bills like this that are really meant to be for a headline, but maybe not, you know, not a real conviction in the asset. So hopefully that will change over time. Again, I think it's less a thing to celebrate about politicians passing a bill. about Bitcoin is inevitable. It will get there because it takes advantage of it changes the incentive structures. It is essentially like one of those the the the the host. I think it's a bacteria or maybe a it's that essentially takes over ants and other insects and essentially allows them to take over that insect and then use that insect to go you know collect resources that it wouldn't

have been otherwise able to. Bitcoin, you know, we are all Satoshi's automaton's. It takes a hold of us. We think we're doing what's best in our self-interest. But at the end of the day, what's happening, Bitcoin's inevitable march continues. And we just happen to be players on the game. So I feel like I need a shirt that just says Bitcoin is invasion of the body snatcherous with like the pointing like open mode. Yeah. I feel that's what I was thinking the whole time. Like we all, we're all, yeah, we think that we're working on our own accord, but we've all been infected with the Bitcoin virus that is taking over the world. Yeah, I mean, I, again, to echo what we've kind of touched on here a little bit over the course of the episode, not so much a celebration of yay politicians, but just seeing it play out as we had kind of thought it would, you know, we thought it was going to be inevitable and it seems. to be going that direction.

And furthermore, I find it less, I don't want to say like unfortunate because I don't see it as unfortunate, but I find it, it irks me less when it's smaller local governments that are dabbling in Bitcoin because I find that smaller local government is more in tune with the people in that locale, whereas when you get these massive apparatus trying to govern tens, if not hundreds of millions of people, that's where it's just impossible to set a law of the land for that many disparate views. And so I think that, again, like as you get down to the state level, more so when you get down to like the municipalities, that that could be better. And then even more so when you get down to small communities, I think that it's that's like

the most bullish, like the individual, the family, the small community, all that. kind of stuff, family offices, stuff like that. I want to get, let's do BJ and then get tone your thoughts as well. BJ, go ahead. You know, I want to go back to, because we've all circled around this, and you articulated the moment where people really get it. And that is rare. And what tone said is correct. But people just don't get it. But a lot of them don't have to get it. They don't understand our current Fiat system. You know, large percentage of the world are people who are just followers who go along and get along. And those of us who get really deep in the, deep down the rabbit hole on issues, we're the weird ones, right? Because we're kind of the outcasts,

which I think we all kind of like. But, you know, in December, I went to El Salaf. And I went without anybody knowing with a friend of mine who's a very well-known YouTuber from the UK named Callum. And he's got a very large channel. He'd actually be a good guest for you to be on your show at some point. And he wanted to tell the story of Al Salvador's shift from what it was to now, to say, okay, is it really, really that safe? And when he asked me about it in August, if I'd help him, I said, well, if you're going to do that, why don't you also? talk about Bitcoin. And he said, oh, mate, that's a perfect idea.

I don't know anything about Bitcoin. Sure. Let's do that. We went to Miami and you can find the video on YouTube. It's called El Salvador, the Bitcoin Dictatorship, hyperbolic title, but you'll understand when you watch it. And we were in Miami on Lincoln Road and we filmed this. We didn't film this part.

We filmed me sending him his first transaction using Moon, he who's using moon and strike and just kind of getting his feet wet. We spent about an hour of me explaining everything about Bitcoin. And then, Ben, I saw that moment that you're talking about when you see it in their eyes. All of a sudden, boom, it hit him. And this is a guy who's in England, who's very political, very discouraged and disheartened what's happening to his country. And just a little bit, you know, everybody's uneasy in that frame if you're very political right now. And all of a sudden there was a new spark in his life. And he said to me, oh my God, wait.

So there's nothing between. I'm like, no, it's just my part of the blockchain to you. There's no intermediary. And it finally, you can see the spark in his eyes. You know what he said to me? He's a journalist. He said to me, and I didn't even thought of this. He said, I go to all these dangerous places.

Afghanistan, the Russian Front. He went to Zimbabwe. He's in Iraq right now. And to fund his trips, he's got to buy little trinkets. And he sells them to his audience. And that's how he funds his YouTube channel. And he said to me, mate, you try buying anything in the middle of Kabul. But he said, I know they're all using crypto or Bitcoin or whatever.

He says, I don't know anything about it. This solves all my problems. I said, exactly. It was the first time in a long time. I've seen somebody get so excited because I witnessed that life-changing moment. And I know it's frustrating because so many people just don't care. They're just too lazy. I'm sure you would agree with that.

They're just too lazy to learn. But then once in a while, you get that person that it strikes them and hits their heart and it changes their world. That's why I try to still orange pill people because it is one of the most rewarding experiences. you can have in helping people discover true freedom no matter where they are politically they understand that now I am a free individual so yeah I it's it is pretty cool watching and I'm gonna have to watch that video I think I found it what was the name of the channel again it's called Britannica yeah I found that and yeah you'll see it awesome awesome yeah I'll give that uh I'll give that a watch there for sure um

Tone, I'm going to again kind of call on you really quick, just general thoughts. Again, I know that you're not super keen on the government aspect of things. I don't know if you've kind of looked at any of the state bills, stuff like that. Do you have a general take on what you've seen coming out of the states, like the veto and the acceptance and like the fact that there's so many states all of this like this there's quite a few in some form are you surprised to see that many u.s states piling in so quickly not not really right because it's about uh it's democrats versus republicans right so i'm not surprised at all uh it's a this is why my personal channel has gone political and not it's no longer a bitcoin channel it's now a

political channel and uh don't get me started on the governor of arizona which is probably the biggest fraudulent election state election in the u.s and uh and you have a situation where if the republicans like something the democrats have to hate it and uh and vice versa So we're in a situation where Trump came in being pro-Bitcoin because the Democrats were not very pro-Bitcoin. And now that the Republican administration is pro-Bitcoin, by default, the Democrats have to hate it. So the fact that the governor of Arizona did not sign the bill made total sense to me because she's a Democrat while everything else in that state is pure Republican. which again makes no sense how she is the governor so that made no sense and then she probably got a lot of backlash after not signing it so she kind of quasi signed some other garbage that was kind of pro-dictoin

and uh new hampshire is another weird like everyone in new hampshire is uh apparently a libertarian or republican but yet the legislature is democrat as well uh That's why I always make fun of Bitcoin motorists who thinks that New Hampshire is going to be a beacon of freedom. And my answer is your state is literally surrounded by communist on all sides. We're like, it's not going anywhere. You want to be able to get out. And so New Hampshire turned out to be the first. Look, signing it and doing it are different things.

If I ever find the episode, I mean, we used to do Bitcoin news shows every day back in the day with Jimmy Song and Jacamo Zucco. I'm sure you guys have seen a few of those. And I remember vividly what El Salvador announced that Bitcoin was going to be legal tender. And everyone on my on my show was so bullish. And I wasn't all that bullish because it made no sense to me. Like, I'm sorry, it didn't make sense. It did not make sense why they made it legal tender. if they had just announced that they're going to use it for strategic reserve and buy it and just completely decriminalize it and just allow people to use it if they want i think that would have been so much better and i said that in real time the day after they made the announcement because

look where we are today where al salvador suddenly has to backtrack on bitcoin being legal tender in order for the IMF loan to get in, right? And it's just a bad dynamic. So going all in on something before you really understand it and really know what you're doing and the potential consequences of going all in is great. I mean, it'll help the price rise, but is it ideal long term? So same thing with the states. just because they signed something to allow Bitcoin doesn't mean that someone actually knows what they're doing at the state level to actually start buying that Bitcoin.

And so we'll see what happens. It's a great headline. It's going to help the price of Bitcoin rise. Is it really going to make a difference? Eventually it will over the years, but it's not going to make a difference tomorrow. And I mean, the ETF have been helping to pump the price of Bitcoin as well. And eventually when a bear market comes, they're going to help drive the price of Bitcoin down. It's a, you know, it's a double-edged sword.

And so it's great news. I'm happy that this is happening because it is making the price of Bitcoin right. Tone, I got a question for you. When you came out and suggested that the legal tender deal in, El Salvador was not a good thing. And this goes back to some of the tribalism we're seeing. How much pushback did you get? Did you get ridiculed and criticized a lot for that or no?

I got a lot of pushback on my show from like Jimmy Song and some of the other guys. I didn't really get that much pushback from the community because I mean, leave a YouTube comment. So I didn't get too much pushback. It's just I felt that it was wrong. rushed and I felt that I mean are you really going to like force businesses to accept it? And I remember like, and I remember people were proud. It was like, hey, I came to El Salvador. I went to this little bodega shop.

And the guy didn't really know how to accept Bitcoin. But I was there for two hours and I forced him to take my Bitcoin so I can buy this this bracelet. And I'm like, shit. I mean, like really? Well, like, is that really the best use of our time? So I felt that it was rushed and I felt that it was pushed onto people and I'm all about, you know, more voluntary things. So something like just a state, like the way the marijuana laws kind of started, it's like, yeah, it's illegal federally, but we as a state will not stop you. That's it.

Like deal with the federal level. Well, like, I think that would be better. just knowing that using Bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee is not going to get you in trouble with any law enforcement, which again in America is still questionable today, right, just even from a tax perspective alone. So clarity on this would be ideal, not the government buying it up. I mean, it's, again, one government buys it up just so another government can spend it. like when the regime of the state changes so i'm not a big fan of that uh i would rather a state say that uh they're going to give you a break on you know state taxes if you hold bitcoin

or a state encourages their citizens to do it uh not necessarily that a state actually does it I mean, I mean, that's kind of my view on it. I think that would have been better. Just like with El Salvador, it would have been better if they just said, hey, we as a country are going to slowly start acquiring Bitcoin in order to get under the thumb of, you know, to have more freedom. And anyone using Bitcoin is not going to be criminally charged for anything. And if we're treating it as a currency and there's not going to be any tax obligations and

or investment taxes on it. Now, we're encouraging all our citizens to get out of poverty by adopting Bitcoin. But no, you're not forced to use it as legal tender. And it looks like history is proving you right. So, good call. I got to find that episode. I'm sure it's doable. You've got to find the date when they announced it.

Yeah. Well, gentlemen, I am conscious of time here. I do want to let you all, you know, have any quick final thought, any takeaway from the conversation, anything that you want to point people towards, of course. I'll also say to everybody watching, if, you know, we talked a lot about self-custody today, the importance of holding keys and how, you know, a lot of institutions and probably governments are maybe not. doing that, unfortunately. You can be better than that. The tools are at your fingertips. So always keep on learning. Of course, there's a ton of free material on the channel. There's endless tutorials that you can sort through and learn. And again, if you're a little shaky on it and you need some one-on-one, I'll pull up. Again, I've got Bitcoin Mentor.io. That's my company.

I've got a team of hand-selected educators at this point. And yeah, you can give that a scan. if you want to book one-on-ones and we can make sure that your setup is rock-solid and secure and that you don't go losing your sats, you know, and just don't, don't leave your coins on the exchange, not your coins. So, you know, take control, be self-sovereign. I think that's the way to go. But anyways, Tone, before I do a quick ask of BJ and Will, any final thoughts, anything you want to point people towards. Of course, you got Unconfuscatable coming up, you know, let people know.

Yes. Uncompensatable, it used to be a conference in Las Vegas, but organizing conferences is a total nightmare. So just as the big Bitcoin conference encroached on the city that Uncomposcatable was always in, I'm not doing a conference anymore. It's hard to have speakers, sessions. Thanks for speaking at my last. demand now is just a bitcoin poker tournament and a full day hangout i have a private venue rented for the entire day there is no registration anyone can just show up and enjoy the day at the private venue where we will be having a bitcoin poker tournament the venue is the nerd it's on the website actually it says it right there the nerd las vegas it's on fremont street in downtown Las Vegas just Google the nerd and we'll be there as of around 1 p.m.

So come by any time after 12 o'clock around 1 p.m. And later that night there'll be midget wrestling at the venue. I think that that is a you do or to pay for that to watch that. It's absolutely hilarious. I've done it. I've watched it at the venue. It just happens to be on a Friday to do it, I think, Thursday, Friday, Saturday at the venue. will be poker will be over by 9 p.m. And then we're all just going to hang out at this giant bar. And it's a private venue for the Bitcoiners.

Bring your Bitcoin trading cards. And anything else. Still open to sponsors. If anyone is interested at the moment, it's just me paying for poker dealers and the venue. And just having fun with a bunch of friends and Bitcoiners. It's a word of mouth event. Anyone is welcome. But only those that.

really follow my work, know it's happening. So I get to hang out with one, two, 300 people. I think the venue fits about 300 people. So anyone's welcome. So just show up. No need to register. But if you do want to play poker, you do need to register. I think I only have a couple of spots left. The website actually sold out for poker tournament, but there are a few spots left. Try to reach out to me if you still need a spot. But we are on the verge of selling out the 50 spots for the poker tournament. Oh, yeah. Awesome. BJ, how about yourself?

Any final thoughts? Anything you want to point people towards? Yeah, a couple of things. But I think the first thing is, I don't know that we thank you enough for everything you do and have done for the space. You know, I remember, Antone, I'm sure you saw this too, that you would see these YouTubers come out of nowhere. All of a sudden, they were experts about Bitcoin in 2015, 2016.

And then all of a sudden the price dives and they all disappear. And they are starting hustling something else. You, Nico, a few other people are the ones who've really grinded through it and stuck with it. And I've told you personally face to face that you're the one who really taught me had a custodial my own Bitcoin from the very early days when you started. And, you know, on behalf of all of us, I don't think I'm overstretching to say, thanks, man, for the commitment that you never stopped, and you've changed a lot of our lives. Really appreciate that.

Well, that's on to us. Very, very kind of you. Making me blush here, man. No. And then also, you know, you bring us together. Like, look, we have a lot of divergent political and world and philosophical opinions. But I tell people in politics outside of Bitcoin, the biggest thing it's given me is the ability to interact with people who we disagree.

with, but we agree with one fundamental principle, which is freedom. So we can hash out our arguments. We can fight or we can say, you know what, we're never going to agree on that topic. Let's just move on. And you've been a big part in that journey and bringing us together and what you do weekly. I can't, I can't thank you enough for everything you do. And then beyond that, I have a substack. Tone won't like it. It's political. If you ever want to fight Tone, let me know. I love the arguments, but BJdictor.substack.com. You can get a copy of my book, Honking for Freedom, at honkingforfreedom.com, which is a story of, you know what, you and I went through during that period. And hopefully, everybody tells me it makes them cry, and it gives them a little bit of

hope, which is something, I think all of us, no matter where we are on the spectrum, spectrum here, we're trying to give hope and show a positive vision for the future of friends and our families and the people who follow us. And if we keep doing that, you know, the world's going to be a much better place in the future. Yeah, I agree. And yeah, go grab the book and check out the substack for sure as well. I'm sure our politics are going to agree. Why would we argue about it? But you know what? The argument is best because you know what I like honestly? I respect you for one, well, a bunch of reasons, but one thing I've noticed about your political takes, I like, I love hearing the best arguments for opinions I disagree with. So a lot of stuff

you say I agree for sure. But when I disagree with you, you're giving an opinion that, okay, I disagree, but I understand how he gets there, which is what we need to do more of. We need to give the best arguments on all sides, which is what Bitcoin does, right, when we try to communicate. So I have a lot of respect for you. Even when we agree or disagree, I respect the fact that you're always very good in articulating a point that I disagree with. Awesome.

Thanks, man. Well, I'm going to toss. Do you last? Any final thoughts? Anything you want to point people towards? Go ahead. Topic of the day, why are we bullish? There are a million reasons to be bullish now.

So it comes with the every cycle warning. Bull markets are fun. They can be frightening. Don't over leverage yourself. Stack sat, stay humble, and enjoy the ride. I think we are definitely in for a wonderful next six to eight months. And if you didn't, don't believe me, just watch the clips again about Tone and his charting. again, excellent work.

But use your favorite local Bitcoin company. And you can get at me at WLRVS on Foldap.com. Check out what we have to offer. Bitcoin rewards credit card dropping as well as a few other major announcement. So let me know what you think, what you'd like to add. And we are also hiring. If you're a fantastic senior front-end engineer, I'm looking for you.

So we got a couple open wrecks, but otherwise, it's fun to a pleasure to be up here. Will, one last question. I'm pretty sure the last time I had you on here, I said, when Canada? So question stands. Honestly, Bitcoin well, Shake Bay, have been holding it down so well that I've known that you guys have. Our brethren to the north. 2025 is about getting our stuff together in the U.S. then we go outside.

So hopefully not too soon, but I'm also big fans of some of the Canadian services as well. Oh, yeah, they're awesome. Well is incredible. I'm just eyeing up that credit card. It looks nice. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here.

Everybody that watched live over the course of the episode looks like somewhere in the realm of six, or 7,000 people that have been checking us out over the past hour and a half here. Thank you for being here. If you haven't already, make sure you smash that like button. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And I'll just finish it out by saying keep stacking stats, but also keep stacking skills. I'm Ben with the BTC sessions.

This was your daily session. Thanks, guys. We'll see you later.