BTC Sessions - Bitcoin Fixes Double Standards Like WallStreetBets - Guest Gigi ep143

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

Gigi is the author of “21 Lessons - What I’ve Learned From Falling Down The Bitcoin Rabbit Hole”. In this episode we discuss the fallout from WallStreetBets, the halting of Gamestop trading, the systemic problems and inequalities that allowed for this to happen, and how Bitcoin does indeed fix this. Check out everything Gigi is up to: https://twitter.com/dergigi https://21lessons.com/ https://dergigi.com/ https://bitcoin-resources.com/ https://www.swanbitcoin.com/gigi/ https://www.patreon.com/dergigi SUPPORT THE SHOW! @hodlwithledn offers Bitcoin backed loans, interest bearing savings accounts, and their B2X product for you big bulls out there. Check them out and get $25 free: https://bit.ly/397rlLN @wasabiwallet is an easy to use desktop app for Bitcoin coinjoin and interfacing with your hardware wallet. Check it out now! https://wasabiwallet.io/ @cobovault is a badass air-gapped hardware wallet with optional Bitcoin-only firmware, secure element, and interoperability with great software like @electrumwallet @wasabiwallet and @bluewalletio. Grab one today! https://bit.ly/2GgMFlH @bitrefill gives you sats back when you purchase gift cards with Bitcoin. Pay main-chain or lightning, grab cards for Amazon, Uber, Apple and more! https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 @BillFodl_Wallet lets you store your backups in SOLID STEEL, making you water/fire/shock/hack and YOU-proof. Ditch the paper and go with steel. Grab a faraday bag while you’re at it! https://privacypros.io/ Been watching the show for a while? Like what you see? Drop me a lightning network tip! https://tippin.me/@BTCsessions

Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What is up, everyone? Welcome to the show. Very excited to bring you this interview. Today I have the man, the myth, the legend, Gigi, who is author of 21 lessons, what I've learned from falling down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. If you haven't read it, you got to check it out. I'll have links down below in the show notes about where you can find Gigi, his book.

You can read it for free or you can get a physical copy, whatever you please, but don't miss this one. And he's got another book in the works. Today, we are chatting about what everybody is chatting about. We're talking about Wall Street bets. And we'll get into exactly what happened here, but the long and the short of it is that a bunch of billionaire hedge funds took a bet that the price of game stocks would go down. amongst other companies, and they risked more than they can afford to lose. And a bunch of regular people got together on Reddit and said, let's buy this stock and pump the price up.

And those hedge funds ended up losing billions of dollars. And trading got shut down and the little guy got crushed and the big guy seems to have won the day, unfortunately. But we talk about a lot of the implications. of what this means and what people are waking up to and what people are realizing. We talk about how it relates to the ethos of Bitcoin. And in our opinion, we talk about how Bitcoin does indeed fix this. So it was a great conversation.

I loved having Gigi on. So without further ado, let's dive in. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. And this is your daily session. Now, before we get started here, of course, shout out to sponsors. of the show, ledden.io, this is where you can use their Bitcoin for a variety of different services. I've been using them for a couple years now. They save me my butt on a few occasions. First of all, with their Bitcoin back loans. And I've used these in the past when I needed to

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I'm already recorded. I'm just going to let us do our thing. It's good to see you, man. Yeah, I good to see you as well. In all of your green screen glory. I see the setup is evolving. Oh, of course. You know, you have to go with the times and the times are crazy.

So the setup is getting crazy and crazy as well. Yeah. Don't change, man. I love it. Keep going. Dude, what a fucking week. Like, this shit's crazy. What is going on with the world?

It's amazing. It is quite amazing to watch. It is very painful as well. Like, you know, I posted the other day that I'm 69% amused and 69% enraged, which coincidentally adds up to 180, 138%, which was the amount of stock was overshorted. So, yeah, that's how I'm feeling, you know, like it's hilarious to watch that a bunch of meme lords can basically, you know, destroy hedge funds just by meming a stock to the stratosphere. And it's really sad and enraging to watch how the legacy system and everyone who is in power is colluding against the small man and just crushing them by just censoring everything that's

happening online. Now, as we speak, the first reports are coming out that, of course, you know, like you can't sell the stocks anymore on the apps. Like, you can only sell. You can, you cannot buy anymore. You can only sell. And now the first reports are coming out that positions are automatically closed. So basically, stocks are automatically sold in the name of the people. And it's insanity.

It's absolute insanity. And I truly hope that it will be different this time. that some people are going to jail and some people are going to pay for this. And I hope it won't be like 2008 all over again. Yeah. It's crazy to see. Let's, I guess,

I mean, for people watching that, that maybe don't, like, don't have a good handle on what's going on. I don't know, like, how,

I mean, you've probably been like me glued to Twitter, kind of reading what you can, figuring out what, what, what's going on. but maybe let's let's step back and and and kind of talk about kind of what went on in terms of so you had what you had melvin capital i believe one of the hedge funds at least and they

they shorted the stock by by a stupid amount right so what was the percentage you were saying yeah i think it was 138 percent so it was all the short this and this and this is this is GameStop, right? GameStop we're talking about. And so basically what happened is that a bunch of people online figured it out. So someone on Wall Street bets figured it out. And he was like, you know, like if we all band together. And you know, like it's like in the subreddit there are like two million people. And if only like 10% of them are active and actually following through, then it's still a bunch of people.

And they don't have large sums to play with. So it's just a numbers game. You know, like some of them that they're in this game with like, you know, Oh, 100 bucks, 500 bucks, whatever. And the fun thing about short squeezes is that to cover their losses, those who short the stock actually have to buy the stock, and all shorts are like time locked in Bitcoin speak. So you have to get out of your position.

And to cut your losses, you have to get out earlier, which drives the stock price up even higher. And everything, it's like a positive feedback loop, which is disastrous for those who have the short, and good for those who bought the stock and might go along. And it's all in the bounds of the game. You know, like if you play these financial games, nobody did anything illegal.

Nobody did like it's just someone found a loophole, so to speak. It's not even a loophole. It's just they saw what the big financial guys are doing. And they were like, okay, if we make this counter move, then we like the small man is going to win big time. And that's what happened in the last like 48. 70 to two hours. Like that's what happened in the last two or three days.

And it worked. Like enough people, enough people believed in the strategy and banded together. And it worked and it started working. And it was obvious that it started working like two days ago. Yesterday it was really obvious because the hedge funds already had to, yeah, get a lot of bailout money just to cover their losses.

And now just everyone on Wall Street banded together. to just crush the little man. Like, like, all the, all the apps that supposedly are for the regular people, for the plebs to trade, they all, like, everyone is in on it. Like, everyone, everyone is in on. It's crazy. Just like for anybody. The people are not allowed to profit.

Like, those, those games are just allowed to be played by, by hedge fund managers and the big money. As soon as the small man and the small money is playing these kind of games, everyone is getting crushed. Like it's insanity. It's insanity. Like how many instances could there possibly be of them stopping trading because things are going up, like going up too much? How many instances could there possibly be of that? I can't imagine many. And it's just that the wrong people were on the wrong side of the trade and they just couldn't have it. It's fucking crazy.

It's insanity. It's such a double standard. And the most insane thing, and Dave Portnoy pointed it all as well, is everything is happening in plain sight. Like, you know, like the amount of moves you need to do, like the amount of people you need to speak to to like delist stocks from apps to implement functionality in the apps that do not. allow you to buy more that only allow you to sell that automatically sell and and all of that like delisting everywhere and the subreddit was closed i think but that was just just out of out of caution but um like their discord server got shut down and and all of that happened in like 24 hours you know like the amount of of like coordinated effort that has to go into that that

a large scale financial and political move like that actually happens, it boggles the mind. It's beyond belief, you know, like sending out, sending out stimulus checks to a couple of people that takes like, you know, 150 days plus, but shutting down some degenerates that maybe make a little bit of money and bankrupt hedge funds in the process, like 12 hours. It's all it takes to shut everything down and to really make a difference. And it's, it's beyond insanity. Like it, I'm speechless.

I'm basically speechless. Yeah. It's, it's interesting to see. So I was looking through, I was looking through your book this morning through 21 lessons. And a lot of the lessons there actually mirror pretty well with what's going on right now in that, not all of them,

but some of these guys. are learning those lessons that you wrote about, even though not specifically about Bitcoin, they're learning about the vulnerabilities and the costs of being in this walled garden put forth by the higher ups, where there's a certain rule set for some where they can privatize the gains and socialize the losses,

and that only applies for them and everybody else. If you're going against the grain and you're making money at their expense, then they just shut you down. You're not allowed to play ball anymore. It's fucking insane. Yeah, absolutely. And we can see that play out in real time. Like some of the Wall Street Betts people, they are just now, like this couple of hours figuring

it out. You know, like I just saw tweets that of the big Wall Street Betts accounts that we can only lose because we are using their currency. We're using, you know, like we. we're using rigged money in the first place. So they're about to figure it out. And all of that, all of that,

like, the reason why I'm so passionate about it, I have like no skin in the game. Like I have zero stocks. I don't even have Robin Hood installed nothing. Like, like I don't play these kind of games. I'm just,

I'm just fed up that the game is so rigged against regular people. And only, only the small elite is allowed to profit. And everything is set up this way. And so, so I'm cheering on the little guy that, that found that, that found a way to just burn a small part of the system down.

And I think it would be for the better. You know, like every single bailout, it just makes everything worse in the long run. Like the system is sick and broken. And what we would need, it's like, you know, the regular, like Max Kaiser is saying it all the time. And other people are saying it as well. It's like a drug chunky, you know, like you need the next heroin shot. and the next her in shot and the next heron shot. And this is basically what bailouts are.

And what we would need is like, you know, letting it crash and burn and go cold turkey for a while and just recover from that and don't get addicted in the first place anymore. And this is exactly like the cure to all of it, of course, is Bitcoin, you know, but it takes a while to wrap your head around it and to figure that out. And so I think just seeing and experiencing it firsthand, that everything is rigged and everything that, like, everything that has a central point of failure will be used by the powers that are currently in charge to, to rig the system against you.

And we are seeing this now in real time and we see people waking up to this reality in real time as well. And I don't know how it will end. Like currently it doesn't look good, you know. Like it's almost impossible to buy the stocks in question. it's it's almost also impossible to communicate uh i would say like there's also there's already like so much misinformation started from from like those people that want to stop that i i already saw posts like like faked 4chan posts where people were writing like oh i i'm just a 50 year old guy and i lost all my pension because the hedge fund uh controlled my pension all

of this is bullshit. Like this is complete misinformation and and like 10, 20% of the people that are on Wall Street, but we'll probably believe this and will, will like think twice and maybe sell their position or whatever. I mean, you know, like the Robin Hood app is doing it for them automatically anyway. But still, like all of it is so messed up. And it just, it just shows you very, very clearly how broken things are, like how broken the centralized platforms are, how broken the monetary system is how broken the financial game is how broken Wall Street is and and who who truly has the power in in our world today like if you can basically shut down parts of the internet and shut down parts of like free speech and free trade just on a whim in like 24 hours those are some

powerful people that can do that and it's it's insane like it's it's truly insane the the thing that has me excited is like you said, we're watching in real time as all of these people, first of all, they found a chink in the armor and they exploited it. And the response to them exploiting that and actually clawing back some of their purchasing power or trying to, they're seeing, by being shut down, they're realizing and it's like, and it's happening fast, but like to us, it's like we get to watch them have this aha moment as they hopefully coalesce realizing, you know, why Bitcoin is here, why it was created. And it's, you know, the entirety of this whole debacle that's gone on, more was accomplished with this than the entirety of like Occupy.

You know, Occupy did nothing. People like stood in the street. Nothing happened. And eventually they just kind of disbanded and went home. But they, they felt that. something was wrong. You know, some of that anger was, I'd argue, pointed in the wrong direction, or maybe some of the concepts were muddled. And part of that is the education system doesn't, it doesn't really lend itself to creating people well-versed in economics or anything of the realm, let alone Perciable monetary responsibility. But they know that the scales are tipped in a certain direction and they're angry about it. And for the first time, I'd argue, in years and years, they found a way to actually ruffle some feathers. I mean, they've been shut down. But now they're

seeing, okay, that's a point of failure. That's a point of failure. What do we do? And I think at least some of them are going to start looking and going, well, there's an alternative, you know, instead of, and this kind of hits on one of, hits on one of your points in your book. And I'm kind of applying it in a different manner, but one of your points is that, you know, Bitcoin won't change or I won't change Bitcoin. Bitcoin will change me. And I think some of these guys are realizing, like they're trying to change the system. But the system is built with a certain set of rules that favor a certain set of people.

And that's not going to change. So they need to change and adapt to that reality. And in my opinion, adapting to that reality means opting out of that reality. Yeah, absolutely. And I think those people are starting to realize it. And it's very true what you said about Occupy Wall Street. They had the right idea, but no solution. You know, there was no action that, like, no, no action that was possible at the time to be taking, so to speak.

And now an action was taking, but still, the game is so rigged. It doesn't matter what kind of genius moves you play. It will always be rigged against you because the people that make the rules, they can change the rules arbitrarily at any time. And what used to be a winning move, like two days ago, shorting these stocks was the winning move. And now it's not allowed anymore. Now, like, there are basically no winning moves in a rigged game because every move you can think of, it will be made illegal, like, after the first time you played it. And so opting out is the only viable long-term strategy. It's the only solution that really works.

But it's really hard to do. And I think it's also, it's not as like psychologically fulfilling. it would have been really nice to get this win, you know? So it's a kick in the balls to not get this win now. And it will be really hard to read a bunch of books, truly understand the monetary system, truly understand money, understand that Bitcoin is the solution, understand that all shit coins are shit coins and start stacking sets. Because that's what these people need to do.

And I hope that all the bitcoins will be here. I think, you know, like 95% of the Wall Street bets people, they have the right energy. They have the right idea. they have the right motivation. And we should be very, like, chanted to them in terms of helping them to understand what's going on and what the actual solution is. And there is a way to opt out of the system. And you can also do it gradually and just, you know, like stack sets start as soon as you can.

And just, you know, like automate everything you can. Like, like, if you still get a paycheck, just take 10% of that and start stacking sets. And just watch like, do it like the Bitcoin is do it now. you know like just go along on on popcorn futures and just enjoy the ride but but again you know like it's it's it's really hard to to actually do it it's it's like a long a long game and it might not be as as fulfilling as burning everything down yourself if you know what i mean yeah yeah and that's part of i guess the culture that this fiat culture that we've grown up in where everything, you want that instant satisfaction.

You know, like we were driven by debt and having whatever we want immediately pay for it later. And so, yeah, you're right. Like there's that want for, you know, I want this system over now. And if it doesn't topple immediately, then I'm disappointed. But, you know, one of the main narratives that Bitcoiners try to push is the idea of low time preference. And, you know, as you kind of dive down that rabbit hole and you start to understand that it doesn't need to happen all at once. And as long as it's trending in the right direction, then you're going to be okay.

And you can start to shift your life that way. I think, I hope that some of these guys start to understand that. And it'll come in spurts. I feel like this year is a year where it comes in spurts. But, you know, it's going to take more than a single calendar year to see these types of changes that we all kind of really want to see. But, you know, these spurts of new people that start to understand, it starts to snowball over time. And pretty soon it'll be difficult for everybody to look away. That's when we have some real challenges in front of us.

You know, like the one thing I will say that's beautiful is, you know, you have Robin Hood introducing, you know, oh, hey, buy Bitcoin with us. Everybody just got a lesson in why that's a bad idea because you can't withdraw. You have exposure to the price volatility. That's it. I had somebody who lives, I live in Canada, but I had somebody in the U.S. text me the other day, where's a good place to buy Bitcoin? Should I go through? Robin Hood. I said, don't touch it. And I said, you know, maybe go swan, maybe go cash out, whatever you want, but get it into your own custody. That's much better. Get a wallet. And literally like 24 hours later, I can point to a news story that shows them why. And it's, you know, these guys are the people that set the rules are architects of their own demise. It's just a matter of how quick. Yeah, absolutely. And it's,

I think it will always happen in this way because Alex Swetsky has this line that people either learn because of curiosity or because of pain. And I think, you know, only in terms of Bitcoin, only like maybe one or two percent of people are curious enough to learn everything without going through a lot of pain. And so what we're seeing now is a very, very painful lesson. like you don't you don't control these apps for example you don't host your own instances of twitter of your discot server of reddit of whatever like all of this can be shut down and if shit really hits the fan it will be shut down um you don't hold these these stock certificates in your

hand like they can be sold in your name like you you have no control over all of those things it's only the illusion of control and bitcoin is the the only thing like it shows you really directly that you are in control. And most people learned this also because of pain, because you can shoot yourself in the foot really hard with Bitcoin. Like everyone who, you know, like sending to the wrong address or losing a seat phrase or like there are still a million ways to mess up in Bitcoin. And it shows you that you are truly, really and truly in control. There is no one who can help you if you really mess it up. And people will have to learn that. And I think all of these are important lessons.

And I'm super bullish in general. Like I'm bullish on Bitcoin and I'm bullish on Bitcoiners. And I think, you know, like Wall Street bets, 2 million people. Those who are involved in this drama, I don't know how many, maybe 100,000, 200,000. I don't know. How many will stick around for Bitcoin, even if it's just 10%. It's like 10,000 people, you know. And if you look at what Bitcoin actually does to you in terms of how it lowers

a time preference, how it increases your understanding, and how it also teaches you to take on the responsibility that you need to take on to do self-custody and just figure all these kind of things out. I'm super bullish, you know, like that's like 10,000, 10,000 new bitcoins that will be invincible in like a year or two. And that is what makes me insanely bullish. And everything else will come from that as well. You know, there will be people that, that, you know, actually, not only host instances, for example, for better communication and things that can't be shut down so easily, but also the tools will evolve and people will work on that, just because of that. Like, this is a defining moment in history that we are living through right now.

Like so many people just got completely fucked. And it was so obvious and so in plain sight, like it was daylight robbery. And it's not clear to me if this will have. legal repercussions but I think I think this this is going to be etched into the minds of people for a very long time and and this is how things actually change this is how this is how people actually change their habits and they will they will think twice about you know like buying Bitcoin on PayPal or on Robin Hood or what have you like yeah this is a very teachable moment

well it's it's beautiful What an incredible talking point and introduction to Bitcoin we've been given by these Robin Hood crooks. Because it's such a simple leap now to say, hey, when it comes to Bitcoin, if you're running your own node, you're running a copy of the underlying rules of the network. It would be like somebody like Robin Hood trying to change the rules of the game saying you're no longer. able to do one side of a transaction and you saying, nah, and just going along with the rules as you see them according to your node. It's such, now that concept is the forefront of everybody's mind and there's a solution right there. This is it. You can easily do this. You get a friggin, you run it on your computer for free or you get like a $100 raspberry pie and you boot it up

and you're set. And that's a pretty powerful thing to present to somebody who's just been fucked so hard by the legacy financial system. Yeah, we didn't have any precedent in the West. Like, we all said the last couple of years, like if you come from from a country where things aren't as good, where the money is broken or where if you're living under a totalitarian regime, then Bitcoin is very easy to understand because you are facing all these problems daily. And now it showed us clearly that we are in the West also living under a totalitarian regime. It's just not so obvious who is the dictator, so to speak. But now, like, this shows that there are certain people where the rules that are in place for everyone else,

they just don't count for them. And they can change the rules at any time. And it really feels, yeah, totalitarian. It's like, you know, like you are not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to say that. You're not allowed to make that trade. You're not allowed to connect with other people. You're not allowed to visit this platform and exchange information.

And you're not allowed to speak on Discord. And you're not allowed to install this application and so on and so forth. And all of all of this is, it's complete craziness, like, you know, especially in the US, but also in other free Western countries. It's complete craziness that this is like this is where we at in history. Yeah. It's absolutely insane. If someone would have told you that like two or three years ago, it would have been

very hard to believe. And yet here we are. Yeah. It's crazy to me too, some of the news coverage of this. Like, okay, first of all, the interview with Chamath on CNBC was fire. That was an incredible interview because he tore that guy a new asshole when he was talking to them. But I just, I can't wrap my head around the fact that a lot of these news pundits are defending what's going on right now and saying, well, I mean, these guys were talking and manipulating

things together. When that's common practice amongst hedge funds, they'll go in and they'll, they'll, behind closed doors, have idea dinners. And they'll all basically say, well, we're going to long or short this stock and they'll all kind of agree to cooperate. There was investigations into those that basically yielded nothing years ago and they're just allowed to continue. Regular people do it and we got to shut it all down right away. It's just, you know, and you have the other thing that struck me in that particular interview. I don't know if you saw it, but the, yeah, the anchor was saying how.

the value of the stock doesn't align with the fundamentals of what it is. What a fucking joke. We're in the midst of a global lockdown where businesses are effectively not able to run and the stock market is at all time highs. If you want to talk about fundamentals, why don't we start there? Because that's the biggest fucking joke of all of this. like yeah and it's also it's also it's also like um jamaath counted it perfectly it's like who is going to say who who's going to make the evaluation who who is going to be the value dictator are you going to dictate what the stock is actually worth you you have no idea like value is completely 100% subjective it doesn't matter like if if everyone decides to buy this this

fucking stock at that price that's what it's worth you know that's how bitcoin got its price the first place what's what's the fundamental intrinsic value of bitcoin like fuck you nobody knows like it's it's it's it's i'm willing to pay a lot for one bitcoin and that's how much it is worth to me and and you can't you can say anything else so don't and chamaths that as well you know like don't even try don't even try to to to say how much anything is worth you know you you won't be able to to say the same thing about tesla or what have you pick any stock you know like tesla just i don't know like 20x in like 14 days or something like yeah exactly like fundamentally did the fundamentally did Tesla change that much about their operations over the course of a calendar year to justify that it's you know

people see value how you know and and he was talking about the way people interpret value some people are basing it on earnings now some people are basing it on a history of that stock some people are basing it on potential future earning some people are just playing the momentum and all of that is fine to do apparently unless there's too many of you and it's against against the grain yeah it's no what it is is you know like if you're an outsider then it's then it's basically illegal so what they are what they are saying is that outsider trading is illegal that's that's basically what they're saying you know like insider trading is perfectly fine if you if you're the financial inside circle, you can do whatever. Like all of that is, it's just normal business.

You know, like, that's how it's done. And, and there is no manipulation there. There is like, no, like, no, no collusion or whatever to, to pump or or drive a stock down and so on. And as as long, like, as soon as outsiders do it, suddenly everyone cries like manipulation. And if, if the wrong people lose money, then suddenly, like, everything is terrible and we need to stop trading and we need to the platform all the plebs. And it's, it's, it's, it's a horrible situation. And I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm just so, so disappointed by, by, for example, by these news anchors, you know, that, that, that clearly don't get and don't see what is actually going on. And how, in this situation, how can you side with Wall Street.

Like those people that never paid for the great financial crisis that fucked everyone over over and over and over and over again. And now they're doing it in plain sight. Like if they get away with it again, then then, you know, like the fight that is currently being fought, it won't stay in cyberspace. I don't think it will, you know? Like now, now nobody is marching in the streets yet. But if they are getting away with all that and everyone keeps.

getting the platform and you know like there's like quote unquote free markets but some people are more free than others then uh it's it's a it's a it's a really bad situation it's a really bad situation so let's let's take this to its uh you know dystopian future and let's let's let's go down down the negative side of the rabbit hole and then let's talk antifragility and how that makes things robust potentially in that type of a situation. So, you know, right now the eyes are on, you know, a rag tag group of Redditors that decided to pump a mid-cap stock that was shorted a lot. What happens when that sentiment switches to short the dollar opt-out, everybody's in Bitcoin?

point. What are the first bits of infrastructure that are the, what's the easiest thing to attack first in terms of the state, the regulators? Where do they go first? I think the playbook will be exactly the same. And I think all of this will happen. So just make sure that you also know about decentralized alternatives like Bisc and Hodel hoddle, and just where you can buy Bitcoin maybe in person and stuff like that. Also make sure to take precautions in regards of privacy, best practices in Bitcoin. It's just in general a good idea. If you guys haven't noticed, Gigi is a little bit better at that than me.

This is the face of somebody who's fucked, and that is not the face of anybody who, who has been poor in handling their privacy. So kudos to you, friend. Yeah, well, you know, my privacy outfit is more a statement than anything else. Because if you really want to be serious about it, then you have to go full on 6102 and just never connect to anything without going through tour or at least the VPN. Never show your face ever to anyone.

It means never go to a conference. That means don't work in the industry. That means never send a picture of yourself to anyone ever. And also never show your voice. All of these are bad ideas if you want to truly stay private. But still, it's all about reducing your attack surface. If I can find out where you live and how you look like in like two seconds on Google, then you're not as private as someone else where this is more difficult.

And it all depends on your attack service and reducing that as much as you can and just knowing your attack factors as well. Like for example, if you're a bitconer, just since we are on this topic, if you buy Bitcoin swag or as we've seen with the letter hacks, if you buy a hardware wallet or anything like that, just try to not send it to your home. Like send it to your office, for example, or just get a PO box or something where you can pick it up. And like small things like that go a long way because if there is if there is like a leak again, there will be a leak again. Like that's 100%. The probability of that is 100%. And then maybe your email address gets leaked, but maybe not your postal address gets leaked.

And it's little things like that. But anyway, to go back to the playbook, how this will play out in the Bitcoin world as well. And I do believe it will play out. not necessarily everywhere on earth at the same time, but there will be situations, I think, where similar measures will be taking. And it starts with social attacks. And we saw that with Wall Street bets as well.

You know, suddenly you're a right-wing Nazi pedophile, whatever. Like that's, you know, like it's, I saw headlines of those. Yeah, because discord was shut down for quote-unquote hate speech, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because they are all like right-wing pedophiles, that live in mom's basement and they are just bored of yeah yeah and that's why they are doing it you know i also saw an article that labeled it the the wall street insurrection yeah yeah exactly and that's like that's step one vilify vilify the group of people that you don't agree with and the next step

is obviously attack joke points and for bitcoin these are the centralized on and off ramps. So this will be exchanges. This will be apps also like, yeah, cash up equivalents. And it's that already is like a large scale attack. You can see it now with Wall Street bets. It's really difficult to buy the stock, you know? Like if you remove the most frictionless on ramps, so to speak,

you get rid of like 90% of the people. You have to be really in it with your soul and really stubborn to still buy games of stock now. You know, like just introducing, yeah, thought and friction is enough to knock out most people. That's why, unfortunately, this playbook works. So we can see it now. It kind of works. Like, it's, it pains me, like, to say that.

But the big guys, so to speak, currently as far as I can tell, they're winning. Because, you know, like, you said, you said all the apps. to auto sell. You make it impossible to buy, and you label everyone like right-wing, Nazi, pedophile conspiracy theorist, whatever, pick your mainstream media slur. And you almost win by default,

because you can bend the rules of the game in such a way. And I think the same thing has happened in Bitcoin as well. You know, like Bitcoiners were always kind of, of vilified. It doesn't matter if you're like Andreas Antonopoulos that have been using Bitcoin for, I don't know, like seven years completely legally, never, never bought a single drug or anything with it. It doesn't matter. You're like, you're one of those people, you know, like you're only, like this is dark net money. This is like dark market money. This is only for like hiring hitman and and all the rest of it, you know. This changed with a lot of the macro guys coming in and now,

you know, companies having it on on the balance sheet and so on. And I, yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if Bitcoin will be hit that hard because of the corporate angle and because it is kind of weather to Wall Street in some sense already. But just be very aware of that and just make sure that you have your, like, your things in order. Make sure you, like, you have control of your private keys. Like all the basics.

You run your own note. you have control of your private keys. You don't docks yourself too hard, maybe, if you can. And just, again, like, use privacy best practices in Bitcoin. And also make sure that you cannot shoot yourself in the foot with Bitcoin. Like, try to not have all your eggs in one basket, try to use multisic if you can, and so on and so forth. And I think that's how you can mitigate those kind of risks. But they are still there.

Like if a similar situation, if such a short squeeze happens with the US dollar and everyone is foaming into Bitcoin, all of this will happen. Like, like, and it doesn't, it doesn't matter. They will, they will come up with, they will come up with one-liners that make a large part of the population agree with what they are doing. Because we have to save the state. We have to save the financial system. We have to, everything will collapse if we don't stop this. This is basically the argument right now as well. you know like the hedge funds will collapse if the hedge funds collapse other things will collapse as well

we have to stop this at all costs it doesn't matter what it takes so this is why they are doing it you know because it's also true it's true that these things would collapse but it doesn't make it better as i said in the very beginning you know it only it like the damage gets externalized and that's what's so horrible about it because now the damage does not end up being at the hedge fund side but at the, you know, 200,000 people side that are on Wall Street bets, and it's just horrible to see. It breaks my heart. Do you think that for the people that are in charge of this kind of stuff,

do you think that they're currently believing that they can actually prevent the damage? Or do you think that they openly know that they're just kicking the can down the road? That's a good question. I think that's a really good question. I don't know. I think you can't, I think that's different for every individual. Like there are some like magical faith healers, for example, that truly believe that they have those powers and that there are others. Stephanie Kelton.

That no, that knowingly scam people, you know? Yeah. So, and I think also in this world, there are, there are definitely people that think that they are doing the right thing. And also, you know, like if we go back to the drug metaphor, they're like working alcoholics and also drug users, they don't realize that they have a drug problem. And I think also in the fancy world of monetary economics that we find ourselves in, there are people that truly think that they are doing the right thing with just endless stimulus and QA infinity and all those kind of things and endless bailouts and doing whatever it takes to inject liquidity

into the system and so on and so forth. But I'm sure there are also people that know that this is not a stable solution, and it is definitely kicking the can down the road. But what are you going to do, you know, like let it crash and burn? So, yeah, we take the next shot into the arm and let's see if we survive it another week or two. Yeah. It seems to me too, like the tactics may change a little bit if Bitcoin were to become

even more entrenched than it already is. We're seeing the beginnings of institutional interest and actual. The position sizes outside of people like Sailor are small enough where the downside risk is very minimized if they're only holding a percent or two. But if those positions grow and become a sizable portion of, major funds and and you know central to the economy uh then do you think that it's more likely that they just directly go like a 60102 confiscate and and reimburse with an equivalent of dollars at the time and then revalue i think they will definitely try if it comes to that i think we can see

this already happening as well they're talking about um you know like taxing the those who have real estate at like insane levels. And that's the same thing, you know? Like, I mean, real estate is the perfect example because, like, it's immobile. You cannot run away with it. And everyone knows that you own it. So this loops back also to using privacy techniques in Bitcoin and try to reduce your exposure to KYC. Because if they can find out who the whales in Bitcoin are, they're going after them for sure.

Like, that's, that's, if they can, they will. That's, that's, history has shown us that. And this will be true in Bitcoin as well. The beauty in Bitcoin is, however, that you can, like, as a sailor said as well in, in one of his, I think it was one of the lost interviews or I don't know, but it, it was resurfaced recently. It's really hard to tax Bitcoin if you know what you're doing because it, it lives in the space of ideas. Like, you can, you can put it in your head.

Like, it's 12 words and that's it. And you can forget these 12 words, you know, like you can have a boating accident and you can have amnesia and you can, you can like, it's very plausible that, I mean, there are like hundreds of thousands of instances where this actually happened. Like people lost access to the Bitcoin. That's it. What are going to do? And we will have to see this play out. So in the end, as I've said before, it's a very profound property of Bitcoin that you cannot steal Bitcoin. Like you cannot steal Bitcoin in the conventional sense.

If someone knows what he's doing, you cannot take it by force. Everything else can be taken by force. But Bitcoin is an idea. Even like even the physical Bitcoin is an idea. Like it's 12 words in your head. You cannot steal 12 words out of my head. I have to give it up willingly. Even if you kidnap my daughter, even if you like put a gun to my head, it's still an act of will.

So you have to provide some services to get my Bitcoin. And that's basically like if shit really hits the fan and I think it will, that's what it comes down to. Like you can actually draw a line in the sand with Bitcoin and you can't do that with gold. You can't do that with anything else because they can always come knocking at your door and just take it from you. And with Bitcoin, you can have a setup where this is not possible. And this can be as simple as geographically dispersed multisignature. You know, like you have three out of five. keys and all three keys are in three different countries.

Like that's, if you have a meaningful amount of Bitcoin, that's not even that hard to do and it's not even that expensive. And, and yeah, well, try to try to get those, like, try to get access to this stash. It's, it will be really hard. Also legally speaking, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not really clear where, where the bitcoins are in the first place. Like, there is no, the legal frameworks of this world don't map on nicely to Bitcoin. And it will be very interesting to see this play out in the next five to ten years.

I'm also wondering in a 60102 confiscation kind of situation for companies, you know, we've already seen jurisdiction shopping for companies in general, locating their offices to other countries so that they don't effectively pay zip and taxes when the day is done. in a situation where you actually hold a natively digital asset as Bitcoin and there is no locality to it. Does that, you know, is there a portion of those entities that just say, listen, we're no longer in your jurisdiction. we're no longer going to operate here. The cost of, especially as companies are buying up Bitcoin because they recognize the reason.

They understand the risk of holding dollars. So how easily do they decide to hand that Bitcoin over in exchange for dollars in that type of a situation? Or do they just say, listen, you know, the downside risk for us, if it gets that bad, If it gets to the point where where countries are saying, give us all your Bitcoin because we need to protect the dollar, it's probably because the dollar is on its way out. And I've got to believe that some companies and people holding large amounts of Bitcoin will just say where, and they'll be spinning a globe and looking at where they can go. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think, again, this is also already happening, but it is only happening for individuals and also. I mean, we can see it for companies as well.

I mean, to pick an example, the bid license in New York, there is a reason why there are like no Bitcoin companies were launched in New York. And so in general, like there is the saying money likes to go where it's treated best. And I think this is true for Bitcoin as well. So Bitcoin will go where it's treated best. And also Bitcoiners will go where they are treated best. And this is exactly where a flag theory and jurisdictional arbitrage comes in. And we can see already that Bitcoiners are fleeing jurisdiction.

And in the US, for example, everyone is going to Texas. Like the amount of Bitcoinians in Texas is too damn high. Like it already is like a centralized point of failure almost. And we can see this all over the world. You know, like there are some places where just for tax reasons, but also just for convenience reasons, you are allowed to earn Bitcoin, for example. And also you can pay parts of your taxes, for example, in Bitcoin as well if you want to and stuff like that. And it makes a lot of sense if you're a Bitcoin to move to a place like this, also because

you will meet other Bitcoins, because Bitcoiners will move there. So this is where, you know, like Citadel theory almost starts to play out. And I see this for companies as well. Like if, I mean, we see it already in the Fiat system. So why shouldn't it happen on a Bitcoin standard? There is a reason why Raul Paul is on the Cayman Islands, you know? Like, I mean, it's beautiful there as well, I'm sure. But there is a reason why on such a reason why.

on such a small island, there's like 5,000 or 10,000 companies registered. And we will see similar things. Like if countries are smart, they're going to make it easy for Bitcoiners to start companies there. Or at least, you know, like hold your treasury there in this country. And maybe you text it a little bit or you pay for the service or whatever. We saw this also in the European Union. In the UK, it was really easy to launch it like a business where you just have,

you have an address there. It's not even a real office. and you can do it online and you just do five clicks and you have like a limited liability company there and I think those kind of things those kind of services will spring up and it will be very interesting to see in combination with like shared custody with multi-six services like CASA and Unchain and others if like I we don't have many companies yet to do that but I think just wait five to ten years and we will have like dozens and dozens of companies all around the world that specialized on exactly that.

And then if you are a company that operates globally, and if you're a Bitcoin company, you're by default, like globally operating, especially if you are in the Bitcoin economy, then you just set up, set up shop in whatever country is best for your needs. And that's,

I think we, we see this, like, to me, all those cycles and everything that is happening, it's like fractal in nature almost. Like the first, this already happened, but it was, it was like extreme,

extreme early adopters and cyphopunks in the past. Now, 2017 forward, it was like regular people. Still outliers, but regular people. Now the first companies are coming in, but those are outlier companies. I mean, just listen to Michael Saylor. He's definitely an outlier. It's not a regular company. It's not a regular CEO.

Like, he's an extremist through and through. And, but the same dynamics are kind of playing out, you know, And also there's the same kind of psychological dynamics are playing out. I really had to laugh because last week there was like this double spent thought and a company ate it up and sold their Bitcoin position, you know? Like they had Bitcoin on their balance sheet. And it's like, you know, it's the same shit all over again. It's just not individuals.

It's just, you know, again, I mean, it is individuals, but it's CEOs and they are deciding what has to be done for the company. And so that's how I see it's playing out. It's crazy how similar this is, this year is to 2017. far, like the same, almost like, tip for tat exactly what happened before just on a grander scale. You know, we're seeing the runups. We're seeing the pullbacks of about the same amount.

We're seeing the same fud, like not even new fud, really, like recycled over and over again. And people listening to it, but they're in control of more money. Like that company had 100-something Bitcoin that they dumped, and they were all excited because they made 200 grand. On 100 plus Bitcoin, it was like a $4 million position. They're like, yeah, 200K, we did it. Can you imagine what they're going to be looking at,

even within this calendar you're going, what did we do? Yeah. But the same psychology is going to play out on the other side. I don't think we're done with these kind of four-year epochs. I think it's just the same sentiment, but with more cash and we'll go through another bear run. And the information asymmetry is fucking insane. Like, yeah, I saw you comment on it,

but I clipped together some old video that I made of what I thought Bitcoin was probably going to do for 2017. And so all I did was as it was kind of clear that the bull market was coming to an end is I just kind of said, well, what happened in 2013? for that bull and then bare market and then I just kind of applied it to 2017 in general percentage-wise and I just said

it'll probably be pretty close to this and I had some ballpark numbers and it was basically exactly what happened. Yeah, it was spot on. Like it was wild to see this video and just look at the actual numbers and just see it's like it was spot on. So yeah, it's,

I don't know what to make of it because obviously, you know, I really don't know what to make of it because it can't go on like this forever it would be too perfect and if it turns out to be too perfect then you'd simply front run the cycles and the models and everything

but it seems to me that there are some just fundamental psychological things at play and for example also what I think is really interesting if you get burned by Bitcoin in whatever way and even if it's just selling too early it's really hard to get back in so there are so many salty no-coiners

like all the critics that are still around, like they all almost die of sodium poisoning because they are so insanely salty. Like, just the debate with Nick Carter, it's like, you know, yeah, my wife, my wife told me to buy Bitcoin when it was $10 and I didn't. Yeah, no wonder you don't like Bitcoin because imagine living with that decision that you could have been set for life and just, I mean, it doesn't mean that he would have held through it, but you see this over and over again, like the, Those who are against Bitcoin the most are those who are aligned with it the least. Like you're either wedded to the Fiat system or you got completely wrecked because like you got out to earlier, you think you missed the boat.

And this is also a funny psychological trick that Bitcoin is playing on you because on an exponential curve, you will always have missed the boat always in perpetuity. Like, there will never be a time where you will think I haven't missed the boat in that kind. Well, and the reason for that is because people are using dollars as their measuring stick, and that measuring stick keeps on shrinking. Yeah, of course. You're always missing the boat because. Always late. Yeah, because you're married to the dock.

Like, you're not. It's crazy. It's hilarious to watch. And if you go back to old forum posts, There were people that were like, I missed the boat now. It's at 20 cents, you know? One Bitcoin is at 20 cents. And I missed the boat because it went from like basically zero to 20 cents.

How high are can it go? And we like it's the same, it's the same psychology all over again. And so what I always say is just get in. Just start stacking sets today. Like even if you don't know what Bitcoin is, even if you don't understand it, like $5 start stacking. $5 every week, $10 every week. Doesn't matter. Just just get in.

Get in now. You'll just please, please believe me. It's the best. It's the best thing. I was having a conversation with somebody recently and they were talking, we were talking about how it, you know, the people are so fixated on the units and the values and they're they're fixated on, oh, I got this many dollars. Oh, I only get this much Bitcoin or even if they're in sats. They're, oh, I'm getting this many sats. They're not fixated on the percentages and the percentage of the monetary base that you're actually holding. And the fact that Bitcoin locks that. that in from the moment you own it and fiat dollars do not and imagine if you had a bank account where it didn't show your dollar balance it showed your percentage of the economy that your purchasing power represented and you got to watch that tick down second by second like how it would

be eye opening but we don't see that we just see a static number and it's a broken measurement Yeah, absolutely. And I think feature requests to all the wallets and all the interfaces out there, because we can do that in Bitcoin, we definitely should do that in Bitcoin. You should be able to see your percentage in the current economy and in the maximum supply that would be really need to see. Like you can just toggle it. And if you have like one Bitcoin, you're already in the wealthy super league. Like just just keep in mind, you know, like there aren't enough Bitcoin to go around for every current US dollar million. to have one. So if you if you have a hundred million sets already, then just yeah, you, you've basically made it in my opinion. And it's, it's wild to think about those kind of things. It's, it's really, it's also really difficult to wrap your head around it. And I think, I'm sure you experienced that as well. But I think the deeper you understand the two systems, the Fiat system and the Bitcoin system, the less interesting the price gets.

Like once you are, once you are pretty much all in in Bitcoin anyway, the price is almost meaningless in my opinion. It's just, of course, you know, like, it's better if it's lower because you earn more sets and so on and so forth. But still, it's not necessarily even about the price. It's about all the things we talked before. It's, that's why I think this, this Wall Street that's fiasco is so insanely important because it shows so clearly that you are not in control. And with Bitcoin, you are in control.

And that's what it's all about. And that's what's so beautiful about it. Like it's, it's, it brings so much peace of mind. And I talk a lot about the Bitcoin send, like the send that Bitcoin brings. Because you know, you know, like with basically a hundred percent certainty that Bitcoin will still be there. and that there won't be more than 21 million Bitcoin. And you have your little sash and you have it hopefully secured in a somewhat sensible way. And you know, like, when it comes to those sets, you're untouchable.

And this gives such a peace of mind. It's beyond belief. Like, it's, I can't, I can't even put it in words. You cannot have this with any fiat currency because it's always inherently unstable. You don't know how it will. And I think people kind of feel that because they feel. and they know that the dollar doesn't buy you anymore what it used to buy you. And the euro especially doesn't buy you what it used to buy you.

And I don't even want to like go further back and convert like in Austria, for example, we had the Austrian shilling. And one euro was like 13 shilling and 13.7 or something. And to go back and I still remember, you know, like with 20 shillings, I could buy a meal. And this would be like one euro and like 30 cents or something. You get nothing. You don't even get a chewing gum for that anymore, you know. And so people intuitively understand that and feel that, especially if you're like older than 18,

if you're a little bit older, you know that you live through those kind of things. And I think the worse, like the further removed from the US dollar your country is, the worse it gets because there are some countries where it's horrible. Like you definitely know that your savings are melting away in front of your eyes. And with Bitcoin, it's exactly the opposite. it. And not only that, it's also, you have the certainty that it will still be there. You know, like that's, it's, it's so beautiful. And it's like the amount of peace of mind that Bitcoin can bring if you use it correctly cannot be overstated. And that's also why I basically, I despise traders,

which is kind of ironic because I love the Wall Street best people, because I think, you know, exploiting the system and trying to bring it down is the right thing to do. But in general, with Bitcoin, I don't think you should trade basically ever, you know? Like, if you truly understood it, just just try to try to figure out how much purchasing power you can put into your savings and just start savings in sets and just stack sets as hard as you can, basically. Yeah. Well, Bitcoin obsolets the need to trade because the whole reason the majority of people try to utilize the stock market is to preserve the fruits of their labor through time and space so that they can retire.

When your money no longer necessitates you doing that, then far fewer people will want to roll the dice on some stocks that they barely understand, they'll be happy, just saving for their own future and not have to become professional investors just to hope that they have enough money when they do retire. So it's game-changing. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it will just become more and more and more obvious. And I think it also, it already is obvious that on a four-year time horizon, Bitcoin is a

perfect savings vehicle. Like it's, you know, like how much, how much did we make on average every year? Like 200% or something like that? It's just, it's insanity. So not saving in Bitcoin is like it is almost irresponsible already. Yeah, I love it. Well, Gigi, I think that's a good place to wrap it up. I loved this conversation. There's so much excitement in the air. And it's, you're right, it's like a double-edged sword because it's excitement and it's disappointment at how corrupt the system is. But there's been so many things, whether it be the trillions upon trillions of dollars being printed that just point to the worthlessness of fiat currency in general, or the blatant spotlight that we've shone on the balance of power and the double standard for the people at the top that is not reflected in the people that are just trying to scrape back some of their purchasing power.

There's so much that we're watching an aha moment on a global scale, and I don't think it's slowing down. I think it's going to snowball and interesting times. Yeah, maybe to add to that. Like if someone is listening to that, that is just really outraged as I am, as also my deflames in the background show. Like I would love to burn it all down. But just keep in mind that the beauty of Bitcoin is,

you don't have to. You don't have to burn it all down. Channel this energy and try to do something productive and just start stacking sets. Like that's the best thing. you can do. Take this energy, take all the hate and the disappointment in the current system and all of it, and just try to educate yourself and others what Bitcoin is and what this is truly about and try to use this opportunity to exit the old system and channel all your energy

to build the new system in a better way. And we can definitely do that in Bitcoin. Like we have Bitcoin as our base layer, as our new base layer for society and for financial, for all things financial and just build upon that. And don't, don't like, don't waste your energy on trying to, to break the old system. Like, I don't think that's necessary. Channel it and do something productive in the new one. And again, like, I'm cheering on the people that try to mess up the hedge funds and everything. But I think you can easily burn out trying to do that.

So if you have an opportunity to educate yourself, and I think in Bitcoin, it gets, easier like every day almost and just try to do that try to understand it and try to help others understand it and try to try to yeah exit like leave the old system behind and build a better future with the new one yeah well said man uh i'll i'll let you tell people where they can find you anything that you're working on of course uh 21 lessons if you don't have the book or if you haven't read it uh check out uh i'm sure what gg is going to tell you to go check out i'm sure what gg is going to tell you to go check out. And you've got another one on the horizon. So my friends, let people know what you're working on, where they can find you. Yeah. So as you mentioned, 21 lessons,

I wrote it like two years ago almost now. You can read it online for free and you can also listen to it online for free. You can also buy it, like if you want to have the physical copy. It's available on 21 lessons.com. I'm working on 21 ways, which is kind of a follow-up. and it's going to be like way longer and I hope way deeper. Let's see if it's more interesting, but I've been trying to work on it as much as I can. But, you know, like with all the chaos that's going on, that proves difficult. And I'm also working for Swan. So I'm an engineer there and I've been working in the industry now for, yeah, a couple of months full time.

And yeah, so if you want to stack sets, just find a good DCA service. if that's your thing. If you're in the US, of course, I'm biased, but I can highly recommend one. And if you don't want to KWC use peer-to-peer services like BISCodl, try to get exposure to Bitcoin if you don't have already. But I'm sure everyone who's listening has some exposure to Bitcoin, I hope. And yeah, if you want to tag along on the right, find me on Twitter. You can also support me on Patreon.

I try to, I try something new with the writing. I'm pre-releasing chapters for the new book, and I do this for my patrons, and we have also like life chats sometimes and a good community around the book going on where we share ideas and discuss things. So that's really cool. It turned out way better than I thought. And other than that, you know, just as Matt always says, stay humble stack sets. It's the best thing you can do.

I love it. Well, dude, thank you so much for being on. I had a blast. Yeah, thanks for having me. That was a lot of fun. Thank you guys so much for watching. I hope you really enjoyed that. Again, check the links down below if you want to catch up with what Gigi is doing and follow him on Twitter. Now, if you really liked what you saw, you can do a few things. You can hit like, subscribe, and share because all of those things really held the show and bump this content in front of more eyeballs. You can also hit up the sponsors I mentioned down below. That was Ledden, Cobo, Bit Refill, and Privacy Pros for the Bill Fottle.

And finally, if you really liked what you saw, you can always hit me up with a Bitcoin Lightning Network tip at my tipin.me page. That is t-i-p-p-in.m-me slash at BTC Sessions. With that, I am out. Have yourselves a wonderful day, a wonderful evening, wherever you may be, and I will see you next time for your daily session.