BTC Sessions - BREAKING: 3 Rate Cuts?! Gold & Bitcoin CHAOS – What’s Next? | James Lavish, Brandon Gentile, Leland

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Markets are reeling after three major rate cuts were just called—and both gold and Bitcoin are already reacting in chaotic ways. In this episode, James Lavish, Brandon Gentile, and Gary Leland join Ben Perrin to break down what’s really going on behind the scenes, why the Fed may be panicking, and what comes next for risk assets, inflation, and the future of Bitcoin.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/jameslavishhttps://x.com/brandon_gentilehttps://x.com/garylelandFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCpCRYPTOCLOAKShttps://qrco.de/bg5Dvo#btc #bitcoin #crypto

Not one but two of the world's largest central banks just resumed cutting rates. A little lower in the pecking order, my home country of Canada, has again gone back to cutting interest rates after doing so aggressively earlier in the year. And now the U.S. has joined the rest of the world. But that's not all. Fed Chair Jerome Powell not only signaled the return of cuts, he also laid out the game plan for the rest of the year. Now, the interesting thing here is that inflation in the U.S. is still running hot at 2.9%. So are they cutting because they want to or because they have to? Now, the moment the news broke, gold rocketed to brand new all-time highs before reversing course and actually ending down on the day.

So the question now, will Bitcoin be following gold's recent upward trend? Are we going to crab walk sideways a little bit longer? We're going to find out. We're going to chat a little bit about this today. To make sense of it all, to help us here, of course, we've got the incredible James Lavish. He's co-founder of the Bitcoin Opportunity Fund, and he'll share his takes on this pivotal moment for markets and for Bitcoin. He'll also be joined by, of course, Brandon Gentile. He's the host of his own podcast here on YouTube. He's had incredible guests, including James Lavich just recently. And I highly recommend you go check him out and give him a subscribe. And possibly we may be joined by, of course, the wonderful Gary Leland of Bit Block Boom. More on that in a minute. But this is going to be a hell of a show. Stick around. You're not going to want to miss it.

Drop a like. And without further ado, I'm Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your bullish session. All right. I want to welcome to the stage, Mr. James Lavish and Mr. Brandon Gentile. Gentlemen, how you doing? Very good. Very good.

Great to you guys. I'm on mute. No, all good. How are you, man? I'm good. I'm good. Don't worry else. I'll shoot over a tutorial on how to work the mute button.

It's only like my 940th podcast. That's all good. That's all good. Well, I want to kind of, James, toss it to you a little bit. I want to get your thoughts on what is going down in regards to the Fed. So, of course, Jerome Powell, chatting today. cutting rates, 25 basis points, but he gave some forward guidance as well. What did he have to say and what's your interpretation?

Yeah, so, I mean, the market came in expecting, if you look at Fed Fund's futures, market came in expecting a rate cut of 25 basis points today. There were a few outliers who thought maybe they would cut 50 basis points, but I didn't, I mean, I thought there was a very low probability and it ended up. up being yeah non-existence they didn't they did not cut 50 basis points they cut 25 and so that's what the kind of what the market expected so what everybody was hanging on though is the words coming out of Powell's mouth and just was he going to lean a little bit doveish is going to lean a little bit hawkish like how what's he focused on and so um when he started talking he was very he was talking

about pricing pressures and the dual mandate and making sure they keep inflation in check. And you see the market kind of sold off right away. And then as he kept talking and kept and started answering questions, the market realized that he's focused on unemployment. And for good reason, I mean, we had the jobs numbers have been rolling over. The unemployment number is ticking up. And, you know, in reality, the job market is definitely softening here. There are fewer job openings. They're just in the job participation rate is ticked up and people are not finding jobs.

So that's concerning to them. And so what basically he's saying is that they're turning their attention to the unemployment numbers and the unemployment or the, you know, the jobs aspect of it because the Fed has two mandates, a dual mandate. dual mandate. And Brandon, just feel free to interrupt me at any moment. But, but, you know, the dual mandate is, is stable pricing, which is supposedly 2% inflation and full employment, which is there's no measure for full employment. It's just how does it feel, you know? But he's clearly, he's turned his attention to the employment side. And this tells us two things. It tells us, number one, that they are concerned about 900,000 jobs being revised out of the numbers over the last year going through March.

And he addressed it directly, stuff I've talked about before, which is the birth death model, which is the BLS has a problem. They do these surveys that are lagging and they're problematic because they don't get everybody to response them. they get like 40 something percent of respondents now, which tells you that the only ones who were responding are the ones who are doing well. Everybody else is in either ignore or survival mode. And so you're not getting accurate data, number one. And number two, you go back and revise these things

and revise them over and over again, and you realize that this birth death model, which is not birth death of people, it's birth and death of companies, it's completely out of whack. They're using assumptions that just don't work anymore. And they're using assumptions that were prior, a model that came prior to the pandemic. It just doesn't apply anymore.

So they're completely off the reservation there. And he addressed it directly in the press conference today. And he said the birth, death model obviously has its issues. So what he's telling us is that they're concerned about the employment. side of the equation and they're comfortable with the fact that they haven't hit that 2% inflation rate. And that's telling us that they're comfortable with it being well above 2%, close to the 3%, and some measures over with your core stripping out other goods. So that means that he's worried about the big bad word that I live through you two or

too young to remember it. But I lived through it in the 70s and early 80s. It's something called stagnation. It's absolutely utterly horrific for the economy. When you have the economy slowing down and prices continue to go up, it's extremely painful for anyone who's in the middle class or lower. And that's what he's concerned about. But he thinks that the pricing pressures are kind of under control. He's comfortable with the inflation being around this rate and he's more concerned with making sure the jobs numbers don't get worse. And there's good reason for that. I can share a chart with you guys and just show like why it's so concerning for him. Yeah, share it over and I'll bring it up. Yeah. So but just bringing up, let me bring up this right here and see if we can show this.

There we go. Yeah, so these are, you know, prior releases of inflation. You can see inflation just kind of bottomed out, it's rising again. It bottomed out, it's rising again. And then you've got your jobs numbers are kind of rolling over. Unemployment's ticking up. But this is what he's worried about here. You know, when you get into a period of recession, this is the unemployment rate.

you can just see how it spikes up. It completely spikes up and it happens so fast. And they often miss it. They're too late. And the white line is the Fed Funds rate. The blue line is the unemployment rate. And these red shaded areas are recessions. You can see how quickly it happens.

It just spikes up so rapidly that they're behind the ball. You know, this is COVID. So it's kind of unfair. But that's what they're concerned about. They don't want that to happen again. And so it's up to the middle class and the lower class to suffer the weight of inflation so that the economy doesn't go into the tank completely. Sorry, but if you don't own assets, you're going to be hurt.

And that's kind of the message here. Yeah. Now, I do want to, I'll posit this to both of you, but maybe I'll get some input here from Brandon. Where do you feel the Fed's credibility is standing now? They've finally kind of capitulated after being, you know, there's actually some bipartisan agreement. Like, it's time to cut rates over and over and over again. The rest of the world has been doing it for some time now. And, you know, of course, they're, they've just got a barrage of the whole trumpet men just berating them and destroying.

trying to destroy credibility there. Where do they stand? What does, you know, what are we looking at here? Yeah, I mean, it's funny. I don't know if it was, and this is about my pay grades, this was maybe throwing it back to James almost, but I think it was Jack Muller's other day was kind of talking about this.

And the game of, you know, there's different ways to devalue your currency, but also to devalue the treasuries and get people to buy them and things of that nature, right? You're kind of arbitraging the system. And one of these ways is really what we're doing with the system now. And like you said, they're cutting rates around the world, but we haven't. Right. So it's like, you know, it's the 3D chess, you know, 4D chess that people,

the financiers are playing that it's hard for the average guy to see. And I think that without going into the weeds, because it's, you know, most of us are 80 IQ plebs. You know, financial repression is is the game, right? Everything James has laid out, you know, we have to get good at reading between those lines. And I think the Fed is, you know, what? It's 112 years old. It's, you know, as we all know, it's past its expiry date. And it's just we're at the endgame. We obviously can see civil unrest. We've been seeing it for years, really, right?

And clearly it's getting, you know, there's more and more and more. James has been famous for talking about the debt spiral or the death doom loop. And that's what we've entered. We started maybe, what, in 2008? I know Larry talks about that all the time. You know, many people talking about starting in 08 and they're just trying to paper it together somehow. And so again, the credibility is just, you know, really been falling apart for decades. But now it's, I liken it to like if anyone's, you know, watched a drain before or you had like the quarter, the penny that you put in the little thing at the arcade or the science museum and it starts out really slow.

And then like when it gets to the drain, obviously, it speeds up and it just starts going crazy. Well, that's that's where we're at. We're like in them, maybe we're in the middle somewhere. Maybe we're getting close to that center point where it's starting to speed up. And James, we had him on the show there day. We just talked about this. And it was, you know, what, we had a four or five trillion printed last, you know, last time and, you know, during the COVID. And it could be, what, 10, 15, 20 trillion. Maybe that's the starting point next time.

You know, we have, we have something, the pin that pops the bubble and have to paper over these things because you have this economy that's running on just vaporware. So it's, you know, like we just talked about the revisions of the jobs. Like this is insanity. I mean, we're just, it's a, it's political money or currency for the political world that we live in. And it's just hot air. So as Jim said, own assets. I mean, all the roads lead to Bitcoin, the hardest assets, hardest asset is Bitcoin. Therefore, you need to own Bitcoin. Yeah.

I mean, the Fed's credibility is kind of shot here. Why is it shot? You heard him say, and I think I heard him say three or four times, the Fed is working for the American people to make sure that it's taken care of the American people. It's absolute utter horseshit. They know that they have manipulated the system. psychotically and it's hurt people in a way that is really actually pretty easy to identify. And the separation of wealth in this country has been dramatic since they started printing money.

They threatened to do it back in 1987. Or Greenspan, you guys again, this is Black Monday where the market crashed on a Monday. The Greenspan came in and said, we got your back. It's short up the market without them having to print anything, really. And then in 1998, when long-term capital management collapsed, they engineered a bailout for them through Goldman Sachs. So they didn't print again, but they basically said, we're here to protect Wall Street.

We're here to protect the market. And then in 2008, they had no choice. They had to print because otherwise they were just going to allow the entire financial system to collapse. But they created this and they've created the system of, you know, the financial markets relying on the Fed to backstop them and take on more leverage. So we just continue to do it. And by the time we got the 2020, it's ballooned out of control. So they're not protecting the American people. And, you know, if you pull it, pulled my screen back up, then this is a pretty easy it's pretty simple equation and um if you can see here let me uh actually make that bigger

huh is that better you can see here it's very difficult to see but this blue line down here this is the amount of wealth that's shared between the bottom 50 percent demographic and this is what it's done yeah it's doubled since 2020 yippee look at the top 10 percent wealth has done since the Fed started printing money, really started printing money here in 2008 and 2010. It has just gone up and parabolic here. Okay. And so that is the, that's the issue. The separation of wealth has just been dramatic and that's why you're hearing people

frustrated and they're struggling. And then Powell today, he lies. He says the American consumer is doing great. Yeah. Well, that's if you take it holistically. which is this 10% driving the economy and the stock market driving the economy. These guys are not doing so well. And the reason that they're not doing so well is because the share of income it takes,

the percentage of their income it takes to, sorry, I'm pointing at the wrong screen here. This demographic is not doing well, you know. These guys doing great. We've gone parabolic. You know, this, yeah, doubled, but the share. of income it takes them to buy the necessary goods the the the food groceries the gasoline you know their rent they can't buy houses these people are struggling so um the the lower demographic is not doing like great and you can tell because credit card usage is through the roof it's at all that

highs obviously well there's more money in the system so of course dollar wise but then you look at delinquencies 90-day delinquencies on credit cards and today they're i i'm Actually, as of July, as of July, they were at 12.3% delinquencies, 90 days. The highest they ever got in the great financial crisis was 13.1%. So tell me how well everybody's dealing. It's nonsense. So they just manipulate numbers or the data to make themselves look good. They're not doing that great.

We have a major problem. Our problem is the stock market keeps going up and it's driving the economy. these guys are not doing that great prices are still rising yeah tariffs have have had an impact and we don't know how much of an impact or echo of that we're going to have but it's continuing but you can't let this pop if you let if you let this demographic if you what you do is if you if you drive the stock market down by removing liquidity by QT or driving up interest rates or keeping your interest rates way high that pops this part of the economy which is basically all of it. We fall into recession, which goes back to this chart. And that's, that's not okay. That's not acceptable. And so that's, that's the problem here. And that's the problem they're facing. They don't want to face that. They don't want to have, you know, another spike of unemployment like this because that, that will require them to do exactly what Brandon just said. Print 10 trillion, 12 trillion, 15 trillion, who knows. How, how do they continue

to gas light like this. Again, the attitude of everything's, you know, how long can this possibly go on where they say the average American consumer is doing fine when in reality it's the people owning the assets? Everybody knows and feels like I go to the grocery store. I can't put healthy food on the table anymore. I'm cutting here, there, and everywhere. No more vacations. And the younger generation is like, I'm never going to own a home or retire. Well, it's easier to do. This is what they don't want as a revolt where prices start spiking again. And it's easy to do when people are just getting clipped for two, three percent.

You don't really, you know, it's the boiling frog thing, right? But, you know, you've lost 25 percent of your purchasing power since 2020. And people feel that. And they would rather have easy liquidity, lower interest rates because for them lower interest rates helps lower the credit card rates it helps lower the mortgage rates you know it makes it a little bit easier for them but and and as long as it just doesn't start driving up inflation it's better and they know that and so that's what they're trying to do they're trying to make sure that they keep the economy out of recession because they have to print again it's going to be twice as bad So, yeah, it's a really, it's, they're in, they're in a, they're in a, they're in a, they're in a tough spot. And what's so frustrating about it is they know damn well that they're the ones behind it, manipulating the money and causing the separation of wealth. And that's just reality. What the one thing I'm going to say really quick to. This is, what's really wild is, I'm reading a book right now. It's called you, you are you, you are the mountain. I forget what it's called thing I have right here. The mountain is you. And again, it's about, you know, taking personal trauma out of your life. life in essence and and just becoming a better person, right? Jim Rohn, Bob Proctor, the personal development people of the world. And after 15, 20 years of just studying money and myself, a lot of

this is just mental, right? Like, you could give a lot of people Bitcoin or you can do a lot of these things, but until someone's like ready to understand it, it's like given, you know, someone who doesn't understand money at all and how to budget and how to take care of things, they're going to go to the casino and blow it anyway. Like a lot of this is just such a mental game. The numbers are numbers and this. I mean, you look at like Bitcoin. Bitcoin is objectively better than everything else out there, bar none. But why after 16 years? Again, that's a short amount of time. We have a lot of adoption in 16 years. I don't want to discount that. But why with social media, the world is its oyster? Like how does it not every all 8 billion people on Bitcoin yet?

Well, the pain to change, it has to be less than what you're doing now. And like James just said, like, if it's like 1% or 2% of frog in the boiling pot, people are like, whatever like it's okay it's not a big deal and I think the other the other big thing that we discount the bitcoins you know a lot of us is a social impact like this printing will continue going on until absolutely implodes on itself because the social impact you look at like the Great Depression a lot of people do even know what the hell was going on like you didn't know like what your neighbors on your own street maybe you knew what was going on right but you didn't know what

was going on in the world so like the keeping up of the Jones aspect is so is amplified to a degree that we have never in here human history is seen before. So whether it's student loans or, you know, someone buying something in the grocery store and you can't afford it, you, you have this like aura of like, I can't be shown or be, you know, I can't be seen as lesser than. And so you're going to have this world where the social impact is greater in the emotional charge is greater than like the actual logic of what's happening. So they will, not only will they have to print, as James just outlined,

just monetarily, but the social impact, I think is far amplified or, you know, exponentially greater than anything else we could ever imagine of in the you just look at like um how the exception is the rule in society today where like a 0.1 percent of society we govern off of that basis so if this group is hurting or that group's hurting we just take everything and say okay throw it at that person or throw it at that group well what's the next group that's going to hurt what's if it's 20 percent of society or 30 or 40 percent of society that's going to continue expanding to going back to this whole thing of it's going to be 10 15 20 trillion next time maybe it's the next time maybe it's the next 30 trillion. It's going to be 50 trillion eventually. They're going to have to. So this,

this drain just keeps getting faster and faster and faster until it just flies apart at some point. And I don't know when that is. I'm so trying to ask James the other day, right? None of us know. I mean, that's the part we don't know when this absolutely flies apart. But I will say the social impact, I think, is the thing that no one talks about really. And it cannot go down for that fact alone. They will print it into oblivion because socially we are so connected that you can't be seen as, oh, I'm losing in life, right? The Instagram culture and this and that. I'm showing how great my life is. I mean, if you imagine if 10% or 20 or 30%

and 40% of society is all of a sudden losing everything, it won't happen. They'll just print it into oblivion and it'll blow apart. In the context of what you're saying around, oh, they're going to need 10, 15, 20 trillion. I mean, it's it is crazy looking back and thinking that during the great

financial crisis, the mind the mind blowing numbers that were being printed then we're in the hundreds of billions. If I heard that number today, you'd laugh at it. I'm, I don't blink. Now when I see multiple trillions, like when they announced, oh, the deficit is going to be an additional five trillion, it was kind of like, well, I mean, yeah, you're clearly blown a ton of money. But I don't think I would really blink until I saw like a double digit trillion at this point because you become desensitized to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're totally desensitized to it. We have this year alone, we had the Doge Commission that was supposed to be cutting costs, getting us to a budget,

wipe out the budget deficit, getting us to a surplus. That was, you know, that was the goal, the aim. I mean, you guys, we have added $1.4 trillion to the debt since January. $1.4 trillion. dollars just think about that for a second okay so we we had a budget agreement and took off the debt limit and boom went right back up the third now we're at 37.5 trillion dollars okay so who cares well it just means that you they have to manage this by having greater GDP the greater GDP nominally meaning they got they have to have more liquidity more money in the system to tax more

to keep up with this because the interest payments alone on this is over a trillion dollars a year now. Okay, so that's bigger than every other line item, but Social Security. So the, you know, they can't have, they literally cannot have a market collapse or an economic collapse without knowing they're going to print massive amounts of money. Why? It's simple. You're, you take in $5 trillion of taxes, okay? You're spending $7 trillion. And the vast majority of that is mandatory expenses. You could take $900 billion off the deck if you cut every single discretionary program, but they're not going to do that.

So you've got a $2 trillion deficit. What do you think it happens if Powell drives this thing into the gutter, if it drives the economy into a recession? Well, you have somewhere around a 10 or 12% rise in your mandatory expenses because of social, secure the the uh the social uh expenses like unemployment and all that stuff and then you've got a drop of 10 or 12 percent in your in your um income side of things because of taxes going down and you know there's less GDP lower GDP lower so you're talking about at best you know 10 percent on each side which is another 700 billion dollars of spending and then you know you're losing

losing half a billion dollars of half a trillion seven hundred billion dollars half a trillion of income you're taking out because of the loss of income i mean you're talking about adding another one to two trillion dollars on top of the current two trillion dollar deficit it just gets out of control and that's if we have just a normal recession if we have a massive one those numbers could be like four or five trillion dollars of uh of you know budget deficit i mean It they can't have it and so that's why you're seeing a act like this. They're like yeah, we've got stagnation, but I mean reality by lowering price or lowering the interest rates allowing the economy to continue to run and avoiding that downturn. Yeah, we may have higher inflation, but that helps our debt. Yeah, it may hurt the middle and lower class a little bit, but it helps our debt. You know, I mean, that's just reality. So it's a better outcome. for them to keep that fire hose going. Now, I do want to, I do have some, I want to get some thoughts from you guys in regards to the,

you know, this year, the kind of the movements in gold versus the movements in Bitcoin. And so I'm going to get to that in a moment. We're going to do just a quick little break, a little sponsor shout out here. And then we're going to dive back in. But I will say everybody that's joining us here live, thank you for being here. If you brand new to the channel, welcome. If you're returning, welcome back. And make sure you drop a like on the video.

We're going to say a quick shout out to sponsors of the show. And then we'll be right back. And I'm really curious to get your guys take on what happened with gold today, but also what's been going on through the course of the year. And the typical movements of Bitcoin versus gold, what we've seen historically versus what we've been seeing as of late. So we'll examine that in just a moment. We'll be right back.

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And gentlemen, I said I wanted to talk to you a little bit about how gold's been behaving this year. you know, we've seen it doing very well. Regular new all-time highs. Very interesting today watching during the Fed's announcement here. But we saw a spike to brand new all-time highs. And then it's actually, oh, it is now up on the day. But it was down on the day for a good chunk there. So that's been very interesting.

Bitcoin also was kind of all over the map. like it kind of took a dump earlier and went into the 114s. It's right back up in the mid-116s. But we've kind of seen Bitcoin lagging gold a little bit. It hasn't been doing its thing yet where gold will have a price explosion and then Bitcoin will do its thing and kind of follow up with an equally, if not more violent move. And I guess my question is, should we expect that coming down the line? Or is this kind of an indication that right now we're skirting between people that understand what it truly is, which is, again, something that allows you to store the fruits of your labor way into the future and secure them a new age gold for the new generation? is it between the people that understand that and the people that are still thinking of it like a tech stock?

Is there a push and pull, thus the crab walk that we've seen the last few months? Or is there something else going on here? I'll let either of you dive in. Yeah. I mean, from, look, gold has been on a tear, right? So if you look at, if you just look at gold over the past number of months, I shared another chart. here for you. You know, it's been on an absolute tear. What's going on here? Well, you've got a lot of central banks that are buying gold right now. They're buying gold in massive quantities. And they're doing

that because they're not trusting the U.S. Treasury quite as much anymore as they're as a reserve asset. And they want to hold gold to protect them against fiat inflation everywhere. That's just reality. And so, and secondly, you've got a lot of people who are buying gold just as protection against uncertainty. You've got, you've got this market that we don't know what's happening with it. We don't know where it's going. We don't know if we're going to have a turnover in the economy or not. You've got some, a lot of global unrest, as we know, that has not really, it's not spilled over until World War, but we've got we've got proxy wars everywhere. And so there's just unrest. And then, of course, gold is also sniffing out the fact that the fed's, the fed's pivoting

here. It's going to pivot. It has to pivot. And they're going to have to move back toward more liquidity. And gold usually takes off in those cases. So the question is, why has Bitcoin not kept up? Well, it's exactly what you said. If we go to this chart, you think Bitcoin usually does, when gold has a rip, Bitcoin will follow, you know, and it's done that consistently. This is not a long enough chart to really see enough of it. But you can see here that gold has taken off and Bitcoin has not followed like you're saying. It has not followed yet. But it's going to.

And the issues, like you said, in my opinion is that Bitcoin's still trading like a risk on asset. That's just reality. On your day-to-day, it trades like a risk on asset. It doesn't have perfect correlation to the NASDAQ or the S&P anymore. It's kind of, it's pulled away from that correlation. But by and large, it leads the way. And you see it sell off on weekends right before the market sells off. It's something that they can, you know, institutional investors can trade over the weekend. So they'll use it. They'll use it to make sure that they get ahead of margin calls. But the issue here is that you've got uncertainty that kind of hurts markets, hurts Bitcoin, and that Bitcoin's been grinding sideways here.

But in the end, we all know what's going to happen. The Fed's going to expand liquidity and it's going to catch up. It's going to screen past gold. That's what I fully expect. I expect for Bitcoin to be up in this range at some point. later this year, way past where gold is. And, you know, gold's had that tremendous run. It's just kind of taking a little breather here.

But again, because we had tempered comments out of Powell at the beginning of the press conference, you saw gold sell off. You know, it just tanked. And that's, you know, no surprise. It tanked. And then when he said, oh, we're, you know, it sounded a little bit more duffish. it kind of stabilized and now it's moved up. But that's generally how I'm seeing it.

And maybe Brandon has a different view on it, but that's generally how I'm seeing it right now. Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything James said. I mean, it's, I think that it's, again, we talked about this the other day on our show. It's how many people own gold across the world, the central banks owning it? And you would think that Bitcoin would run more just because it's,

you know, what, one-tenth of the size in Mar-on? market cap of gold. But at this, you know, at the same time, it's, it's, it's, it's something that Bitcoin is, is newer, you know, like it's just, again, we've, it's kind of in the theme of the show a little bit. Like, Bitcoin, it's 16 years. It's spread. I mean, it took gold hundreds and, you know, thousand years to become money across the world because we didn't have ways to communicate. Now, Bitcoin has done what it's done in only 16 years. At the same time, again, it is that asset like, like James just said, it's, it's trading, uh, as, you know, risk on asset, something that people are, you know, for lack of a better phrase, they're, it's volatile to

them. They're a little bit more scared of it. It's newer, um, to put it in layman's term. So to me, it's the demographic cliff is, is huge. Harry Dent's been writing about this for, you know, what, 15 years. Um, and that to me is, is really the changing of the guard. It's the silent generation and the, in the boomer generation, really sunsetting and going away. That, that to me is, is where everything kind of lies. The devil in the details is the next 10 to 20 years. We're going to have big gold movements because that's where the games are being played right now. You know, whether it's bricks or, you know, whatever is going on with different assets moving around the world and geopolitical risk games, the actual game of risk in the country is moving

things around geopolitically. That is the game right now. Whether we like it or not, whether Bitcoiners like it or not, that's the game. And we have to be pragmatic about that. I think Bitcoiners, a lot of us are very idealistic. We're forward thinkers. We tend to be entrepreneurial. So we are bringing the world into the future, but sometimes it's hard for us to be pragmatic and see the world for what it is right this second and the nature of what life is and the networks that are already built and already established.

The good old boys clubs that are already established a trillion of them all around the world. Well, those things are hard to break. And you mix that with the demographics, they all kind of go together. It takes time. It takes time. So, you know, old habits that hard. Yeah. Yeah.

There's something else that, I mean, Ben, that we haven't. talked about is that the Fed has been hinting at a third mandate. A third mandate would be to make sure that the long-term rates are kept under control, you know, and remember, the Fed controls the short end of the curve. They control Fed funds rate and, you know, and that in turn helps control up to about the two-year-ish, you know they do not control the five year the seven year the 10 year the 20 year the 30 year they don't control those rates especially the 10 year and so um the only way they can control those is with yield curve control with qi with going into the market stepping into the market and buying bonds to keep rates low and gold is kind of sniffing out that that's what they're

headed towards in my opinion it's sniffing out that they're headed towards making sure they use yield curve control because everything we talked about earlier in the show they must allow for high perpetual inflation it can't be zero percent inflation it's got to be two three four percent they'll admit to two and a half three percent but there there there there are pockets of of inflationary pressures that are just ignored clearly and so you can't tell me with my auto insurance company wanting to uh double my rates this year with a perfect driving record and not even a speeding ticket with the last five years. They want to double it. It's just ludicrous, you know. And it's all over the place with insurance and rent and all that.

But the, the, what, one of the things that is going on is that you've got whispers from from fed officials that they know that they can't let the long end get out of control. What does that mean? That's a third mandate. It means that it's a silent mandate, but they're going to, They're going to exercise QE to keep the long end of the curve down, which allows for long-term inflation. Because if they are fighting the bond vigilantes who are saying, no, we need to be compensated for the risk of these rates going high, of inflation going higher. And my bonds giving me a yield that's negative. Yeah. Can you actually dive into that a little bit?

For those unfamiliar, can you, I guess, explain a little bit in regards to the dynamic of, you know, the overnight rate and shorter, you know, shorter duration versus the long duration and the risk and reward like when somebody looks at a 30 year and they say, I'm going to get X amount, but they're looking at the inflation rate. and the real inflation rate? What is the dynamic? What is the thinking there? And what is the consequence of them not being able to sell long duration bonds to people because they don't see value? So sorry, that's a lot there. No, that's a great question.

So basically, the way you look at is that if you plot the yields on a curve, right? You say that the Fed funds rate starts here. And then you've got the, you got a three month, the six month, or one year, or two years. the curve should look like this, right? It should go up and to the right, and you should be compensated in a normal, healthy economy. That's what it should look like, because you're going to be compensated on the long end of the curve

for risk of holding that bond and there being inflation in the future or a much larger issuance of those bonds because of deficits and the government having to just flood the market with these bonds. So, you know, that's just pure supply and demand. If there's more supply, there's it over, it overshoots the demand. And then you've got people demand a higher rate for that. They want to be compensated more for holding this bond.

That's normal, right? Well, in a situation like today, and the Fed only controls this little dot down here, which is the Fed funds overnight rate. And everything is kind of keyed off of that at the short end of the curve. to the curve. Bank rates, money market rates, you know, what you're getting it in your Fidelity or your Schwab account for cash, that's keyed off of this rate. But what's not keyed off of that is the 10-year. And the 10-year is the global reserve asset of, it's the global reserve asset. It's a 10-year U.S. Treasury. And that rate basically is what all of other

things key off of credit cards personal loans key locks mortgages auto loans they all key off of that 10 year and so that is the rate that they need to keep under control to not kill the consumer so even if there's inflation that rate needs to be kept at a at a level that doesn't crush the consumer if this 10 year goes from 4% to 6 or 7% it's game over for the u.s. consumer. They know they can't allow that. But they also know that if they let inflation run hot, this rate will naturally go up because you've got bond investors are saying, I need to be compensated more. Because if inflation is now, if we expect inflation to be 7, 9, 10, 12, 15% in the future,

I can't accept 4.5% for this rate. I need 6% or I need 7%. And so they've got to make sure they keep a lid on. on that in order to make sure that the borrowing doesn't get out of control because if that you have two things happen the consumer gets crushed and then the and then the interest on your debt gets out of control because now you've got you've got a problem here where you you know you're not paying one trillion dollars of interest you're paying one and a half or two trillion dollars or three trillion dollars and it just spirals out of control which is what brandon was saying they can't let that penny get

closer to the bottom of the bowl. They got to like tilt the bowl back up and get it back up here, you know, slow it down a little bit. How do you slow that down? Inflation. And you just allow to keep circling the bowl. Keep circling the bowl. At the same time, it crushes the smaller people, the smaller income people. Brendan, I'm curious if you have any other questions. If you have anything you wanted to tag in there, I know, I know this was something you were touching on with James, I think, last week. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah, it's an incredible. I mean, this is the game right here. You know, this is, this is the game. I remember Howard Dean, I think it was like 20 years ago in

the United States, you know, one of the mainstream legacy news shows. He even, he said himself. He's like, yeah, we got to, we have to task people enough, you know, inflate enough, basically to get what, you know, the government needs and to redistribute things the way we see. But not enough. where the people recognize what's going on. I mean, the quiet part, that's what we were talking about earlier, like hiding in plain sight. We have to get good at reading between the lines and understanding these things are hidden in plain sight. And it's there for everyone to see if you're willing to do the work.

And, you know, we have some great comments in the chat and stuff like that. And, you know, like it is, it is a good old boys club, you know, and that's what it is. All of these things are good old boys clubs. And that's what we, you know, the politics is part of all that. So humans are human. And politics is just part of all that in every sector of society. Whether it's in sports and growing up in sports, James and I obviously play hockey at very high levels.

Politics is part of everything. It's part of Bitcoin, it's part of sports. It's in politics itself, right? Like we are human. So if we don't understand that and start voicing our opinions and what's actually happening and standing up, then we are complicit into what is going on. And that's why we're, that's why I didn't eat family or dinner tonight.

That's why Ben's here. not eating family dinner. That's why James is taking a break from what he's doing. It's because we're called to do this and to alert people to what is going on. That's why people you're here in the chat for crying out loud and commenting and putting their two sets in and asking questions because we know something is wrong. We've known something is wrong. And this is why we're here to change us and alert people that there hopefully there isn't a good old boys club to the extent of it's in the money system. Hopefully we can have something where there's rules and not as many rulers and being a part of something that we can shift to to help it equalize the system of it.

There's a there's a measure that's a really good point, Brandon, there's a measure that shows and I've got I just shared another chart. I mean just share all day here, Ben, but there's a measure here that shows this is the white line here is what is calculated as the neutral rate, what, what Holston-Labek Williams, it's a, it's a calculation that determines what they think the neutral rate is. What is the neutral rate? Where if Fed funds was at that rate, then it would not be restrictive and it would not be expansionary. You know, it would be, it would be right on target. So it wouldn't impact the economy either way. If you look at the neutral rate over the, over the past, you know, just call it 25 years.

Look at how often it has the Fed funds rate has been under the neutral rate, meaning it's been expansionary all this time in the early 2000s. And then it got up there just a little bit, just for a little bit in 2007. And then it dropped and stayed under. Look at how long it's this, it's been under the neutral rate, meaning it's been expansionary all this time. And what do you think happened with assets and the SMP and gold? And then, of course, Bitcoin was born in here.

Great timing for Bitcoin to be born because this is expansionary, meaning that the U.S. money supply basically in debt and leverage expanded this whole time all the way through here. And now it's been above this neutral rate now for a little while here for about two years. And it's time for them to bring this back down. And they know they've got to bring this back down because otherwise they're going to drive it the economy into the toilet. And so that's, you know, into the gutter.

And they don't want to do that. They know they really can't do that. So look at how often they've allowed it. Where do you think rates are going to go now? Of course they're going to go lower. They're going to go lower soon. And if the Fed doesn't lower them soon, they're at risk of a massive,

policy error. So they got to pull them down quickly here. In my opinion, they're going to come down over a percent in the next six months at least. Interesting. All right. I've got one other line of thought that I want to go down with you guys. And it's in regards to kicking the can down the road and tactics that the U.S. can employ to do that. Because I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I don't believe that in the ultra long run, Bitcoin and the dollar can peacefully coexist. I think that the dollar can definitely exist for an extended period of time. I think some of the smaller currencies are going to be in trouble. But I do have some questions in and around some taxes around that.

We actually had a clip that came up. I'm not mistaken, it was about a week, just over a week ago. and it was Russia talking about what the U.S. may be trying to do with its debt in regards to, well, they referred to it as crypto, but they're talking about stable coins and other things. I'm going to touch on that in a sec. We've got one last little break that we're going to take, and we're going to come back and get our thoughts on this to round it out. So I'm very interested to hear your thoughts.

I'll play the clip. It is in Russian, but we'll just mute it and we'll take a look at what the individual had to say. So we'll see you guys in one sec. We'll be right back. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile, Aqua Wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full control of your Bitcoin with secure self-custody. Aqua also supports lightning and liquid network, making fast, fast, cheap Bitcoin payments and asset transfers easier than ever. Plus, it even supports stable coins giving you ultimate flexibility. Build on open source code, Aqua is transparent, trustworthy, and perfect for beginner and pros alike. Ready to upgrade your Bitcoin experience?

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So, yeah, about 10 days ago. But they're chatting about how they believe the U.S. plans to handle its debt situation. And all kind of, it's muted, but it says the U.S. is now trying to rewrite the rules of gold and crypto. with gold in cryptocurrency markets. Remember the size of their debt, $35 trillion. That's 37 now. But these two sectors, crypto and gold, are essentially alternatives to traditional global

finance. Washington actions in this area highlight its main goals. And those are to urgently address the declining trust in the dollar. As in the 30s and the 70s, the U.S. plans to solve its financial problems at the world's expense. This time, by pushing everyone into the crypto cloud, I hit that terminology over time, Once part of the U.S. national debt is placed in stable coins, Washington will devalue that debt. Put simply, they have 35 trillion currency debt.

They'll move it into the crypto cloud, devalue it and start from scratch. And yeah, that's the reality for those enthusiastic about crypto. Now, I'm curious, again, the terminology there pretty bad, but overall, I'm wondering if this stable coin play, this genius act, this having well-regulated and approved stable-coin issuers that, one, not only make U.S. dollars accessible to pretty much everyone on a global scale, so if you have a crap local currency, you can utilize it as an individual, as a business, as whatever, as a reserve asset potentially. does that help them? And furthermore, the stablecoin issues, what do they do when they get the actual dollars? They buy treasuries.

So is this a play? Is this a kick the can down the road moment? Look, I was in Washington a little over a year and a half ago, and we were talking to congressional aides and congressmen, senators, Senate Aides about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and just trying to educate them a little bit about what they are and why they're so important. And we got into one of my local senators' offices, and the aid was like, oh, yeah, we met with Tether.

We know how important this is. We understand how critical it is for us to embrace stable coins because of the U.S. Treasury. So they got it. This is a long time ago, and they already get it. So what does a genius bill do? Well, it allows for stable coins to be issued by these major banks under strict rules and regulations of the government with very strict audit capability and all that. So no longer do you have tether, it's just saying, well, we buy what we buy, just trust us. It's going to be like circle with circles like the gold standard for the audit of,

of the underlying holdings of these of these stable coins but what are they for the listeners who don't know a stable coin is it's it's a cryptocurrency that is pegged to something anything it could be pegged to gold it could be pegged to copper it could be pegged to you know the uh they could rupee whatever you want but by and large the vast majority of them are pegged to dollars u.s dollars and so um why is this important important. What's important because what exactly you said, Ben, is that you can have access to an exchange that offers stable coins, tether or circle or something else, a USDDC or something else. But if it's pegged to the U.S. dollar, then you can effectively get dollars without actually having

dollars because it's pegged to it. It's pegged to the U.S. dollar. So now, if you want to hold your money in rather than your local currency, you know, if you're in Venezuela or Argentina or Egypt or somewhere where you have a very high inflation, then you can hold it there and be paid to the dollar and kind of, you know, protect your hard-earned money, currency, whatever, assets. Now, of course, we know the dollar is debasing, so it's not great, but it's debasing at a lower rate the most everything else then what do the stable coin issuers do they turn around and take those that currency that they've been you know that's been subscribed or bought with they they they create the the stable coin and they go and buy u.s dollars and u.s treasuries and so that what the point of all of

it is is that it allows the u.s treasury to find pockets of liquidity for treasuries for u.s treasury sales that they didn't have before and there's there's a billion people across the world who are unbanked if they're able to go and buy us dollars then they're able to they're effectively pushing them into u.s treasuries it's another avenue to get people to buy treasury so was that was that uh russian minister wrong about you know the u.s pushing treasuries into the cloud and and and just revalue them. Yeah, they're not doing that.

But what they are doing is they're finding pockets of liquidity to continue the charade that we've been talking about, which is debasing the US dollar with inflation and finding people who will buy it because it's inflating at a lower rate than other people's currencies is effectively sucking the currency from foreign fiat creators, And it's just the playbook that Brent Johnson had laid out years and years ago with the dollar milkshake theory. And they're just using a long straw and sucking currents.

They're sucking the money out of other fiats. And it's just going to end up in the dollar and end up in U.S. Treasuries. And that's kind of the playbook. Brennan, I'll let you chime in if you have anything. Yeah, just real quick. I mean, James laid out really well. It's number one, you look at what you're, and again, it's your, you know, the U.S. is enemies, you know, so again, who's to say who your enemies and who your friends are in this world. But again, when it's, you know, Russia or China or whatever, I mean, look what they're doing and I'll throw it to the altcoin stuff or, you know, anything else out there. It's like, are they talking about, you know, some alt coin? No, they're talking about Bitcoin. They've been talking about Bitcoin for, for, you know, years now, that's what they are focused on. So if you want to know where the signal is, look at what the people that want to take you down, at least, you know, quote unquote, are doing.

That also will help you find some signal within noise. So I just, I want to mention that really quick. But also, you know, we're talking about the CIA, you know, creating Bitcoin. A lot of people like, oh, CIA created Bitcoin, the government created Bitcoin and stuff like that. It's just there to absorb the liquidity. So there's not like the shock in the market and people, it's like, you'd think you want to be in on that trade then, right? Like if the CIA created, you'd think you'd want some of that. So you're there to ride the wave as it's absorbing all the liquidity over the next 10 or 20 years, whether they created it or not, that's the beauty of it.

And oh, by the way, they can't control it. So the argument falls apart somewhere because no one can control it. CIA created it. It's there to absorb the liquidity and to be this fail safe. You know, like, so you're going down the mountain in a truck and it's like the ramp that you have to go off on to like save yourself. and that's their escape valve. And they created it. And it's like, okay, so it's there for you to take, but you're not going to take it.

And then at the same time, they can't control it. So again, just some things to note, James of the nail on the head when it comes to some of the specifics. But I just wanted to mention some of those other things out there, those extraneous things that are kind of attached to this whole argument. Yeah, remember how stupid we were. where back when Russia invaded Ukraine and we turned around and we seized their assets, we seized their U.S. treasuries and we kicked them off swift. What do you think Russia wants to do? And that's when you hear people talk about bricks and creating their own currency,

they're not going to be able to create their own currency. But what they're going to do is get away from the U.S. dollar and U.S. Treasury. Who wants to own U.S. treasuries when the government, in a monumentally stupid, mistake. Like this is categorically catastrophic for the U.S. Treasury, for them to do this, because they just signaled to the world that, hey, if we don't like what you do, we're going to, we're going to seize the treasuries that you have, and we're going to kick you off Swift. And then the Treasury's sitting there going, wait, we need them to buy the treasuries. Like we need buyers of treasuries or we can't facilitate this idiocy out of Congress of this

endless spending, which is the whole point of the Treasury. They're there to facilitate the idiocy. Congress is there to get reelected. So just spend as much money as they need to. And then you've got Biden that turns around and cuts them off the swift network, takes their treasuries. And everybody around the world, who is not a very close ally of the U.S. government, is saying, oh, shit, I don't think I want to own these treasuries.

So they're looking for pockets of where to, like, so they're buying gold, you know. It's not the U.S. playing with it. That's exactly what's happened. So we paint ourselves into this corner very, very eloquently. I mean, I couldn't have come up scripted a better way to do it. Like, how stupid was that? So, and here we are. Now, I did want to touch on one other thing in the stable coin vein.

And yes, we're talking about stable coins, people deposit dollars with the issuers. and then the issuers give them the pegged tokens then they can then use freely and then they buy the issuers will go and buy treasuries well the treasuries have a coupon of course and then they are paid the corresponding interest rate

the interesting thing is what somebody like tether is doing with the proceeds they're buying bitcoin and they're building a bitcoin treasury now that's a part that has nothing to do with the the actual pegged stable coin that has to do with their own treasury for their company with a few hundred employees making billions of dollars a year it's mind blowing how like the the per capita revenue of that company is mind blowing but yeah go ahead so so this again i i tend to look at the stable coin play as a kick the can down the road moment but correspondingly could it

also be an accelerationist moment in that the people that are buying the treasuries are mostly excited about the coupon that they can then stack sats with well okay stable coins the the bill prevents the stable coin issuers from passing on the interest to the uh to the buyers well not to the buyers but to the the as an entity as a sure of course yeah they that that that that that that That makes perfect sense for them to do them. They are doing it. I don't, I haven't spoken to Circle Management, you know, but of course, they're looking for ways to maximize their own treasury, and that would make sense to me.

And I would expect that to happen over time, you know. But it is worth noting that these banks, these, it's insidious, that they backdoor this, you know, regulation into the Genius Act where they're not allowed to pay out interest on these pegged stable coins. Wow. Why? Because they're worried it's going to hurt the deposits and, you know, in their banking system and that'll hurt their ratios. And so they can't have that. So they don't want to, so now they've got a way to issue stable coins and turn around and reap the profits themselves. instead of passing them on to the consumers that are actually buying and taking the risk of those treasuries by having a stable coin. So is it is it is it is it is it.

Would you guys, I mean either one of you is it similar to What sailors doing in the sense of a just the flywheel? You know like what I don't know the arbitrage. I don't know like whatever whatever Coupon the rate they're getting versus buying the Bitcoin you know whatever but I mean there's it's similar ish in a way I would imagine to what Sailor is doing, right? It's a flywheel that where, how does it end? Where does it stop? I guess what tether is doing to your point, Ben?

I'm like, they just keep, you know, you're just, okay, I'm taking this, the fiat, I'm just now putting it back into Bitcoin and then I'm just a repeating process. Yeah, they're arbitraising it. Yeah, for sure. They're arbitraging. It's just a question of how much. They, we don't, we don't get to audit tether. So we don't know how much.

We can hear what they say, but we don't know for sure. So, yeah. Well, so what they've got their operating budget, whatever, whatever that may be, but then they, well, they're basically saying, okay, give us your dollars. We'll give you the token that we create. You can redeem it later. But in the meantime, we're going to buy some treasuries and we're going to get the interest from that. We're going to stack Bitcoin. I mean, that sounds like a pretty good deal. Makes perfect sense to me. I would, I wouldn't mind people. She would have thought of that, boys.

Yeah, well, I wouldn't mind people stacking billions of dollars in a bank account for me while I you know get whatever the the interest rate on those treasuries are and and just use those billions of dollars to just buy bitcoin yeah don't forget the tether was a key part of the launch of 21 you know jack maller's company with with cep with canter fitzherald so they know they they're very well aware of the power of the bitcoin treasury play so yeah interesting all right jens final kind of thoughts from you guys. If we were to teleport a year into the future, we're all reconvening,

kind of reflecting on the past year, what is one thing that you are, that you feel relatively confident will have transpired in the prior 12 months that would be very notable to chat about? Go ahead, Brian. Boy, that's a good question. I mean, I think the price will be a lot higher.

I think we're on the precipice. You know, it's gone up, you know, what, double since Trump got elected. I think it's going to be higher. I think it's going to be much higher. I think we're at the precipice. If we talk about the rate cuts, it just, there's a lot going on in the world that it's, you know, there's the by the room or sell the news aspect of things, right? But at the same time, a lot of these announcements, a lot of these things that have happened,

they haven't actually taken place. A lot of the things haven't actually transpired yet, meaning, hey, we're selling our fiat and we're actually taking it and buying Bitcoin out of the market with it and prices made at the margin. So there's a lot of things that have to happen still. Retail is completely asleep. I think there will be a retail push at some point again, people waking up. Because again, as we outlined here, and you guys said this beautifully during the episode today,

I mean, whether it's people going to buying meat at the grocery store or whatever it is, people are feeling it everywhere. So something has to give at some point. And Bitcoin will be that, like we said earlier as well, that escape felt, that thing that people are going to realize as more of us are opening our mouth about it, hey, there's this thing over here that doesn't steal from you. That, you know, there's, what's the saying of, you know, the invention that its time has come, right? It's there. And then the people start seeing it. You know, the teacher doesn't appear until a student's ready type of thing, right? Like, that's coming. And that's here. And we have the power of social media, what we're doing here, that that's going to happen. So I think price will be

much higher. And I feel very confident to me. You look at all the people in the space, all the announcements we had, but just the people in the space, you know, James obviously himself, Gary, you know, Leland is supposed to be on today, the Jeff Booth's of the world, you know, Larry LaPard, all these people that have, they've lived so, so much life already and the wisdom they have and then humility to actually see, hey, this is, this is a better way. I think those are the true signal and the noise, people that have lived 50, 60 years or more, you know, maybe say 40, 45 years, 50 years or more. And they, they can say, hey, I'm humbling myself and realizing there's, there is something better here actually. Again, just like we talked about the social aspect of

people discounting how much printing there will be because of the social aspect of keeping up the Joneses and making sure I don't look as a fool, we can't discount that signal in, in all the noise of the world as well. There are people out there that are incredibly smart that have lived a lot of life and said, wow, there's something better here. After everything I've experienced and learned in my life, that is true signal, true, true signal. So to me, I think we're just in the precipice of massive, massive, you know, again, coming back now in full circle to the circle and we're hitting that drain part. And as James said, we have to actually have to, which is a great analogy, you have to like, they're going to have to lift up this, this thing to get it back out of that.

And that means massive, massive currency printing, financial repression, you better own assets. Bitcoin is going to be a fastest horse in the race because it's the finite one out of everything. But hey, get some assets. I guess more of the story. Get something because you're going to need it going forward. My main takeaway from that is that I don't know whether to be, I don't know whether to take it as a compliment or an insult that you included as somebody who just turned 40. 40 as somebody old enough to have gained wisdom. I'm 38.

So I have to, I mean, like I'm trying to finagle it. You're really skirting that line there, my name. James, we'll toss it to you. A year from now, what's the story of the year? What's the interesting thing that has come to fruition that we can't get over from the past year? So I think if you just look at a big lens, I think a year from now, US debt's going to be over $40 trillion. dollars. We're going to be running deficits that are even larger than now, regardless of the

lower interest rates. And I think that Bitcoin's going to decouple, continue to decouple from the market and not be correlated to anything. And that's going to be, to me, a really big story. And the reason will come out from whatever this next Black Swan event is, there's, I mean, I've been doing this for so long that I've seen like 700 year events in my 30-year career. They seem to come every five to seven years now. It's crazy. And so the next time we have another 100-year event, I think that Bitcoin's going to act in a way that people don't expect, just like it did in Silicon Valley meltdown. And so that decoupling is going to be important.

And I do think that we're going to find all-time highs here this year. and you're going to have people who wish they had bought the dip. Now, that's one year from now. It's a long time for Bitcoin. And you could easily have a market drawdown where everything correlates to one. But the response will be violent from the Fed. And they will come at the market with an absolute money bazooka. And so it will be very difficult at the time.

So that's what I expect on the other side of anything. But that's just kind of my base case. Well, we'll have to do this again in a year then. Hopefully before then. But this has been fantastic. Gentlemen, I really appreciate both of you coming on, getting bullish with me on a Wednesday evening. Everybody that's been watching,

thank you guys for being here, whether you're new to the channel or returning. Make sure you drop a like on the video. Make sure you go follow both James and Brandon. I've got their info in these show notes down below. And James, Brandon, have a wonderful rest of your evening. I'll see you. I'll be here, Ben.

Thank you for having us. Cheers, guys. See you, Brandon. Ben. Yep. Thanks, James. See you guys. Hey, you.

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