BTC Sessions - BREAKING: US STRATEGIC BTC RESERVE SIGNED- $1T Buy INCOMING | Jeff Booth, Robin Seyr, Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim

Episode Date: March 8, 2025

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Donald Trump has just signed an executive order to create a strategic Bitcoin reserve. Today, we've got on not only Jeff Booth and Robin Sayre on the show to discuss this, but also the mayor of Vancouver, Ken Sim, who is responsible for a now approved motion to investigate the idea of a strategic Bitcoin reserve for his city. Today, I've hand-selected the perfect panel of guests to examine the seismic shift that has just taken place and explain why you may be surprised how little time there is left to accumulate Bitcoin before. Perhaps the largest nation state on earth deploys rumblings that I've seen of up to a trillion dollars into the network. Welcome to Why Are We Bullish. I'm Ben with the BTC

sessions. And this is your daily session. All right. I want to welcome to the stage, Robin Sayer, Ken Sim and Jeff Booth. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. Glad to have you. How are you all doing? Great, buddy. Yourself? I'm good. I'm good. I'm raring to go. I'm hopped up on caffeine here, so I'm a little... But off we go.

I mean, just off the top, this strategic reserve, I just want to pull up something from Lynn Alden here that she dropped just today, a little article. just wanted to point out a couple things and get your as thoughts before we go into your reasons for being bullish today. So Lynn Alden always love to hear her thoughts on what's going on. And so she gets into what happened with the Bitcoin Strategic Reserve. The tweet, the original tweet from Donald Trump a couple days ago now, a U.S. Crypto Reserve will elevate the critical industry after years of corrupt attacks. from the previous administration.

He said that they're working to move forward on a crypto strategic reserve that includes XRP, Solana, Cardano, all these things. And then he had to then quote that and say, and obviously Bitcoin and Ethereum, as well as other valuable cryptocurrencies. Now, this is different from what we heard last night with the actual signing,

but the Bitcoin Strategic Resortings, reserve establishes that Bitcoin in the reserve shall not be sold, rather. It also authorized secretaries of the Treasury and Commerce to develop a budget-neutral strategy for acquiring additional Bitcoin as long as the strategies impose no incremental costs on the American taxpayers. And Lynn points out that the most interesting word in this entire signing was the word shall. So the secretary of the treasury and the secretary of commerce

shall develop strategies for acquiring additional government bitcoin provided that such strategies are budget neutral and do not impose incremental costs on the United States taxpayers. And she goes on to say, while this may just seem like semantics to many, the use of shall in this section of the executive order informs the secretary. This is not optional. They are required to develop these strategies. So I'm going to kind of start with it there. And I want to hear your guys take on what we've seen over these past few days, kind of the reaction to it.

And are people interpreting this correctly? I've seen rumblings of, and I'll show one last thing before I get you guys to chime in, you know, Here we have David Bailey mentioning various things that could be a non-burden to the American taxpayer. But again, he's rattling off numbers, surplus of ESF, ESF, $160 billion from selling SDRs. The gold certificate revaluation, which is interesting, they have, here it is, the official gold reserve in the U.S. is 260 million ounces. But it's currently valued at 42, 22 an ounce. If they marked it to actual market value, it would be $770 billion. And Bailey is basically saying like all of these things add up to somewhere in and around

$1 trillion of budget neutral Bitcoin buys. Now, I know there's a lot here to nibble on. So I'm going to open it up. Whoever wants to dive in. What are your thoughts? What is it going on? How do we interpret this? I'll just quickly start with my initial thoughts there.

I watched the very short crypto summit that was also going on, where Sala was also presenting. Unfortunately not speaking, but he was present there. I think my first thoughts is, which is super interesting, that everyone makes the distinguishing between Bitcoin and crypto. So like that, the separation is very clear. think that's extremely important because more and more people in the beginning had the problem they come into Bitcoin and then they like, okay, I have to also look at Ethereum, Solan and all those

other things. And now people get to see like, okay, it's Bitcoin and I research Bitcoin. And yes, there's also something else, but it's completely something different. It's not a competitive Bitcoin and it has nothing to do with Bitcoin actually. So that's something that I, look towards which is super interesting in those kind of conversations. And also the no more hostile environment policy. Trump himself even said the choke point 2.0 is over and he never wants to sell the Bitcoin that America now has. And those are some small snippets that I'm like, okay, that's really

bullish and then of like what are other countries are now now going to do what is what is China now behind coastal south korea european union uh doing so i think that's that's just my initial thoughts there yeah i would agree with uh robin the executive order was really clear and that was a good thing um it probably kicks off game theory um in a in a bigger way gives them some clarity uh for that there's a there's a comment by luke in the comments that let's not talk about it but let's talk about it on the show for sure because it's going to be important, really important. But high level is everybody is going to bend the need to Bitcoin, period. It is imposing discipline bounded by energy on governments that don't have discipline.

And so it's repricing the world other than the other way around. And most people are still pricing Bitcoin from the piece of paper. So that's going to lead to all sorts of chaos and confusion, but it literally, it doesn't matter if you're in Bitcoin, if you're running, if you're running a node, if you're part of the network, you are Bitcoin and you are part, and you know this been as much as saying. So it's more what's happening to all, it's the cognitive dissonance of our mind trying to understand that change rather than anything in Bitcoin. I love that. Ken, I'm curious your thoughts, given that.

you are in government and is it imposing, do you interpret Bitcoin as imposing some, some restriction or some reason in and around government and the way that money is spent in the future? Yeah, you know, so maybe I'll qualify the statement. So unlike a federal government, we do not have the ability to increase currency. And so we are price takers like everyone else. And from that perspective, you know, in general, we absolutely love it. It provides us with a path to, you know, sovereignty and or financial sovereignty in it. You know, it could set up the city for the next hundred years. This is, you know, so personally, I think it's great.

As the mayor of Vancouver, it really is bittersweet. Overall, it's great. It legitimizes that much more the direction that we want to go into. and it gives a lot of people cover to, you know, anyone he's pursuing it. And on the flip side, it just means our runway is a lot shorter to figure this one out. And so we have a lot of roadblocks in front of us that may take four, five, six months to, you know, jump over. And we may, we'll still be early, but we will lose a big opportunity if we're slow on this. I want to ping pong one thing to Jeff and then back to Ken because Jeff, one of my favorite quotes, and I'm going to paraphrase the hell of it.

But that you were asked a question, I believe when you were visiting El Salvador by people who were against the initial Bitcoin law. And they asked you, what is the worst thing about Bitcoin? And do you recall what you told that person? Yeah, your enemies could use it? Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah.

Not only that, but your enemy using it makes it better and stronger. Makes it better for you. Yeah. Yeah. And so what I'm wondering is perhaps for Ken here, do you see this announcement under the current U.S. administration, given that everything is so partisan right now, really everywhere. People are very, very at each other and divided.

Do you think that people that sit on the other side of the political aisle will knee-jerk say, if they like it, I don't, and that that's going to become an issue depending on who's in power or who's opposing? Yeah, look, I can't speak for a future administration, but our experience has been, we already experienced that right now. And so, you know, maybe I'll set this up a little differently. I'm not, I don't consider myself a politician. I'm an elected official.

This is not a stepping stone. I do not want to be a premier. I don't want to be a prime minister. We just want to fix this place and make it better because our four boys didn't see a future for themselves in Vancouver. And that's why we're pursuing Bitcoin because I think this can set up the city for the next hundred years. So to deal with that, to get politicians

on board. We actually put on sessions. You know, we invited, you know, Jeff has offered to help educate people and he has and a whole bunch of other people in the community. And I can tell you, our opposition counselors, the ones that attack us, to use all the same BS, like, you know, it's bad for the environment used by organized crime, it's a Ponzi scheme, all that crap. Not once have they attended any one of these sessions to get educated by a third party. And so, yeah, no, it's disappointing, it's frustrating, but that's how politicians act. Yeah, unfortunate. Robin, I'll give you the last word on this little topic here. Anything that you wanted to pull from that last exchange?

I think it's really important that we, I made a small tweet about that. I'm really bullish on individuals and families having Bitcoin and not that a fan that governments and those have Bitcoin. But even though I'm not a fan of, Bitcoin is still for enemies. Bitcoin is permissionless. Even the government, even central banks can have Bitcoin. So for me, what I'm looking for is like, okay, what are the regulations around Bitcoin? Are they hostile against Bitcoin?

How are they taxing it? Maybe we can release taxes under 10,000 or like maybe 5,000 euros or dollars. And that's kind of like those stepping stones I'm way more a fan of. And if America buys it, it probably will make Nambu go up a lot more barabolic in the future, which is also great. But it's more of the validation that comes for Bitcoin. and less of the, or I'm a fan of the government buying it. So the strategic Bitcoin Reserve should be the families and individuals holding Bitcoin. I think that's the main message there.

I like that. Create your own families, strategic Bitcoin Reserve. Perfect. Well, gentlemen, of course, the title of this show is Why Are We Bullish? And we kind of started it off with some of the crazy stuff that going on, but each of you also have your own individual reasons for being bullish. And we're going to get to that right now. We may touch the reserve one more time before the end of the video because I got a couple

things that I wanted to say on it. But, Robin, I'm going to keep it with you. I'm going to cue you up with the same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? It's really interesting because when you are like me and interviewing every day different Bitcoin, you get very quickly in a person. where you have a big bubble around you, a big echo chamber where a lot of positive bitcoins are around you.

But I have my arms out with my girlfriend is going in a chemistry, a startup where there are non-bitcoins, that my mom that works a normal job, my dad, like all those people that are close to me that are still outside of Bitcoin because as many know, I work in highly and only for Bitcoin. So it's super interesting to hear, okay, when I go to a company event of my girlfriend, I'm like, what are they saying about Bitcoin? And one thing that makes me super bullish is that most people actually see Bitcoin now as part of their strategy, especially for me, the younger crowd.

They are seeing, okay, if I want to invest in something outside of the Euro, and they are getting they have to invest in something bitcoin is now like oh i have to make a one percent or two percent or three percent allocation and and this gives me a lot of hope of like okay the the general population that is outside of my bitcoin bubble also get okay at least something i should have in bitcoin they don't get the feces don't get why bitcoin revolutionized money they don't get the deflationary uh price of tomorrow thesis um but the get in Transinglio, like, I have to get some of it. And yeah, that's the main thing.

I'm really bullish on. And I told that story, I think in the chat before. I bought a robot vacuum cleaner just a month ago. And now my mom wanted to have the same one. And it got 100 euros more expensive on the website. And just like, oh, that's why we need Bitcoin. And small things like that makes me really happy that people around me, but also people further out to me actually slowly, slowly get Bitcoin.

Because I think we have to look a little bit outside of our bubble to see the real adoption and not just within our small community. Yeah, it is refreshing to see that Overton window shift. And gone are the days of using the word Bitcoin and people saying, what's that? Like, that's just a very rare thing nowadays. And there's, you know, I think we are kind of on the cusp of that just general acceptance that it's theirs. People are still a little mystified by it if they haven't ever dabbled. But they're aware of it.

I'm curious, Ken, you've obviously, through what? what you've been doing with the city, you've come across a lot of different people. And I'm sure a lot of people have different takes on it. But what's your feel in terms of just general familiarity with the fact that Bitcoin exists and what it is? You mean in the city of Vancouver, where are we? Like the residents and what have you? Maybe give me a read on the residence versus the people that are calling the shots for the city

as well, the people that you're surrounded with. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting during this journey. I was surprised to, how do I put this? And I'm going to contradict myself here. I was surprised to see how many people had a negative visceral reaction to it. And I'm talking about very smart people, people that are respect, not just as entrepreneurs or business minds, but also as good human beings. And, you know, they still have these cognitive biases and they're against it.

On the flip side, I was also blown away by how many Bitcoiners were closeted that have started to come out. You know, people that have been ostracized, but now we've given them, you know, political cover for them to come out. And the flip side is one other thing I was surprised about what we find is, you know, I thought it would just be younger people that would really understand this. And there are some young people that understand it. But it's really people from different countries. And so the Iranian janitor, custodian, will come up and go, yeah, we love your view on Bitcoin. It's like, what do you mean? It's like, oh, yeah, no, we get it.

Your background, where you came from, you needed it, you understood it. And so it's been a fascinating journey. I love that. Side note, my Lebanese barber absolutely gets Bitcoin. And now, unprompted by me, he has asked if I want to pay in Bitcoin every time I come in. So I didn't even have to like twist his arm to do it. Now I come in. He's, oh, you want to pay him Bitcoin again?

He's got his lightning wallet ready. And it's great. I love it. So, Jeff, I'm going to toss it to you. What's your read on where are we in terms of understanding and acceptance? And I know those are two different things. So insanely early. Like so insanely, so broadly, and I'll get into it and why I'm bullish, but it's the same thing.

When I speak to the counselors, Ken's talking to, when I talk to it, if I use Ken as an example, if I use me as an example, if I use any bitcorner I know as an example, every one of us goes through the stages of removing our bias of the other system and moving into the system. And that takes a bunch of time to get to the here. Once you're here, you don't go back. But through that path, there's a whole bunch of people that, if you said the alligators and the crocodiles and all of the chaos and crypto nonsense and everything, there's just so much nonsense to go through, to go through that path. And what ends up happening is people get scared through that path and they just, or it's too big a deal and they put their head in this end. And even when you understand it, by the time you understand it and then where do I buy it, how do I buy it? That's why some of your work, Ben, that you do is so important, is you don't know who to trust in this minefield of nonsense, right?

In this, and at the highest level, if it's as big as we think it is, which it is, right, it would have to look like this. It would have to look a chaotic, crazy transition as every one of our brains changed to be able to move to the new system. So when I'm not in kind of my primary world, investing Bitcoin and doing all of the work with all Bitcoiners, which is so abundant, so beautiful, so everything else, when I step into the other world and I see where most people are, they're not close. They're not. It's, we're a long, long way away. Yeah. There's plenty of work to do. That's absolutely certain.

but it is exciting that people are at least familiar, right? Because, I mean, we all have the same first. It must be a scam. So I don't think when I say that, I actually don't say that as a negative. I say that as a positive because what that means is we're so early in it repricing everything else that there's so much opportunity in it because the problem, any problem creates an opportunity for entrepreneurs. Any single thing that scares greats a value for entrepreneurs to solve in the free market. So what do you think this chaotic system that's consolidating and centralizing creates?

It creates a massive opportunity if you know it, you want to learn it and move in to solve problems that that other system does. So I actually don't look at that as if you're saying the price of Bitcoin in paper money today, I don't care. And you don't care. I look at the opportunity that presents for every one of us and what you can do by moving your time into it. Yeah. My favorite laundry list of things you can do to have a bit of a cheat code for life is provide value for others, spend less than you earn and save in money that nobody can print. That does you pretty well. Gentlemen, I love this topic.

We are going to do a pivot. And Ken, I'm going to come to you next. Before I do, though, we're going to take a quick little breather slash shout out to sponsors of the show. When we do get back, everybody watching, of course, before we go to break, smash that like button. Much appreciated when you do if you are enjoying the conversation so far. And we're going to give away some sats on the other side of the break.

So get your lightning wallets ready because one person will steal them from the rest of you. So we'll see you guys in just a minute. Bitcoin well. the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the US. And now with Bitcoin Well Infinite, it's also the best place to be making large buys at their OTC desk of over $50,000. Their White Glove service gives you fast transactions, no slippage, and the lowest fees. You can scan the QR code on the screen or simply head to Bitcoinwell.com slash BTC Sessions to sign up today. And you can share your own personalized referral link to earn

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And the way it works, you just need a lightning wallet. And the first person that ends up scanning the QR code that pops up on the screen will be the one to snag it from everybody else. I'll also put Bitcoin well off to the side if you want to check them out there. But in the main browser window, the way it works, when you sign up, when you buy a Bitcoin, when you refer friends, you're in points. And then you can use those points to toss a coin in the Bitcoin wishing well. Each time you do, you have a chance to win up to a million sats.

So we're going to do just that now. And away it goes. And again, whoever scans this first will snag 210 sats. Only one person gets it, though. So if you get an, if you get an error, it's because somebody stole them from you and you need to be quicker next time. So there you go. And congrats to whoever sniped the stats from everybody else. And we're going to dive right back in.

So, Maristam, I am looking right at you and I'm going to cue you up with the same question. Why are you bullish? Well, I think it's going to change everything. It's going to make this world an incredible place. You know, we can talk about how it's going to save the environment, how it's going to eliminate a lot of wars and make a lot of wars shorter. It's going to allow people to store their energy into the future. People will be able to build a life by a home, actually have kids. You know, we see people that are pushing off having families.

And so this changes everything. You dropped a ton of bombs there in like three and a half seconds. I, you basically outlined a number. number of things that bitcoiners often point to um maybe let's let's pull in a thread of let's take a look at and i know it's a spicy topic right now but let's take a look at war do you want to do you want to maybe elaborate a little bit okay so how how does bitcoin uh maybe shorten and and and limit the ability of wars to continue to go on forever yeah yeah so back in the when you had to pay in something that was real like you had to pay soldiers in gold once you

ran out of gold there was no more work because most people just said i'm not dying for nothing and so they left and so uh and people are being tricked now with uh you know the printing press and they think they're earning something but they really aren't and so once we migrate over to our bitcoin standard people are actually going to value these things and you just can't give them out uh because you can't buy them back um on the flip side or sorry in addition to uh You know, gold. Countries can actually invade other countries to get gold. There's nothing to invade.

Right? Like, you can invade a country to steal their Bitcoin. It doesn't work that way. And so there are a whole host of reasons why wars, a lot of them won't happen. People are going to have to think, or not people, governments are going to have to think long and hard whether or not they want to fight a war in the first place. I love that. It's almost as if you've been hanging around Jeff a whole bunch. I just try to repeat what Jeff says.

I love that. Jeff, I want to volley to you. Maybe you can tap on what Mercerin was saying in regards to families, people putting it off having kids. A lot of people have trouble stringing together how a plummeting birth rate could be downstream of fiat money. But maybe you want to touch on that. Yeah, and by the way, and just with

Ken and I, before I go, just if you think about kind of what starts things, having somebody curious enough to learn, like we all started somewhere and we weren't curious, right, and we're in this other system trying to fix it. Ken was too. Without a fix from that.

And so our friendship kind of led to a deeper dive and an exploration. and it takes time for everybody to come to come to that. So if you tied to your question, so hoses going up or everything going up, every single thing in the world that is, when Bitcoiners say Bitcoin fixes this,

it literally fixes all of these things. We can't see it because we're both the map and the territory, and we're giving most of our strength to the other system. And we're giving it to it, and so we're putting money, or people are putting money, into houses because money is bad and you can only store it in houses or the stock market. And so the stock market valuations go crazy and they keep on like it's going higher and higher and higher.

They're ridiculous. You actually looked at real value. House values go ridiculous because because money is bad, the house becomes the store of value against the bad money and it keeps on climbing and then more people want it. And then the tax rates go up on that. And so you're essentially renting a house from the government and you think you own it. And it's because it has a monetary, because it's attracted to monetary premium simply because money is bad.

But in Bitcoin, houses are falling back to their utility value. And not only the utility, so you know this if you measure in Bitcoin, the house is falling back to its utility value. And then the free market works against all the products inside the house. And as they get more efficient, all of the lumber, all of the labor, all of the, is all of that gets more efficient. The house price falls not to its marginal cost of production, the materials fall to the marginal cost reduction and the house falls to its utility value.

And in that system, you don't have to live in a debt system forever. You provide value to other people. You can buy the house outright. you can raise your family and like houses used to look like a hundred years ago and communities thrive out of that example. So if you're if you're measuring everything else in the broken money, it would seem normal to you to do the things in the broken money. You would be putting off family, you'd be putting off all of these things because you'd feel like how could I feed my children? And so it would just, it would all seem normal from that system, which is the

most abnormal thing that we could ever imagine but it's all been it's it's it just happens so so slowly you don't know what's happening yeah i want to i want to touch on the housing thing in two ways one is going to be throwback to anybody who has an appreciation of the 90s but i just saw this clip the other day uh from boy meets world and uh it's corian tapanga are getting older they're moving out they're getting their own first house for the first time. They were in Philadelphia at the time, and they're looking at houses. And the quote, Topanga, the girl, she says, how on earth are we possibly going to afford an $80,000 house?

And so then the guy dissects the actual pricing and wages then and everything for that specific city. But Philadelphia, I believe, the house was $80,000. average take-home pay in Philadelphia, this was 1999, the average take-home pay was $40,000. The down payment on the house with the requirements at the time would have been $2,400, and the interest rates were roughly what it is right now in the states around 7%. But the monthly payment was like $700-something. And now the average house price in Philadelphia is $200,000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000. And now the average house price in Philadelphia is 200,000,000, $150,000, which is way below the national average, but the take-home pay, the average

take-home pay, is $60,000. So the price of homes went up like 213 percent. The take-home pay went up 50 percent. So it's, again, like basically house prices tripled and somebody got a 50 percent pay raise. And so like, it's just crazy. And Ken, I'm sure you're about to comment on the state of things in Vancouver, and I'm sure that you've also seen the shorts that that guy makes that are called Canadian real estate

or literal European castles. Please tell me you've seen those kids. I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. No, just to add to that, you know, that point that you just made, I ran numbers and I remember hearing a stat a long time ago that said the average house price in Vancouver has not changed in the last hundred years. And so I had to prove it to myself, And so the latest data I looked at was from 1995 to the 2022. And so in 1995, the average house price detached home in Vancouver costs 500 grand. And at the end of 2022, it costs 2.43 million or went up 383%. And that sounds normal.

If you're from Vancouver, it's like, yeah, that's been our experience. But over that same period, when priced in gold, in 1995, you could buy the average house for 958 ounces of gold and at the end of 2022 it's basically the same 957 ounces it didn't change now you can say i cherry pick those dates but if you over that same period if you take out the outliers the variability was plus or minus 11 percent whereas in terms of fiat currency it just rocketed and so yeah no our currencies are getting the base the value of gold's not going up the value of our homes aren't going up the purchasing power of our dollars are going down significantly and that's how people are getting screwed.

Yeah. I like that. Again, that when you, I think it's when you price the stock market in gold, it's basically flat for however many past decades. And the other thing that I like when people say price in gold, an ounce of gold will always buy you a good suit. And that's, I mean, yeah, now it's a gold right now for an expensive suit. Yeah, not bad.

Robin, I want to hear your thoughts here too. It's super interesting. I think one website that I bring up a lot in my podcast is priced in Bitcoin, where you can basically see the real estate market, where you can the stock market, basically everything that you can possibly price, like even orange juice and things like that. And this is a really interesting one where you make the flip of like,

I don't price Bitcoin in my euros or for you Canadian dollars. I price everything else in Bitcoin. And obviously it's hard to do it day to day because you have to transact with those euros and it's hard to always make the calculations. But I've started measuring my own success in like how many Bitcoin or Satoches did my network go up. And two things happen with that. The first thing which happens is it makes it way more smooth.

It makes it way more realistic what was actually happening and not the crazy net worth going up and down in Euro terms. And the second thing with that is you realize that Bitcoin is actually the fixed thing and everything else is kind of volatile. And this is really interesting because if you look too much at the Bitcoin price and Bitcoin is going up this month like 50%. or 60%, you feel really good. But if you feel good on the upside, you probably feel bad on the downside. And I think that's like, if Bitcoin is going up 50%, we're not 50% smarter.

And the same way on the downside, we're not getting damage just because Bitcoin is going down this month in US dollars or in euros. So I really like to make that shift of let's price things in Bitcoin as much as possible. And I have understanding that, day-to-day, it's hard, but I think the first step we can take is just seeing our net worth in Bitcoin and making the unit of account switch.

Yeah. I forget who said it, but somebody said Bitcoin is volatile. People are, and we're trying to discover what the price of Bitcoin should be. And we're a little finicky about doing it, I think. Does anybody have any last? in and around this topic before before we make a shift again this could this could um i again i guess i'll speak a little bit even just myself and some of my experiences around family like the family unit and and just the existential dread that so many people have in and around being able to just afford kids

like so often i hear like how there's many people that i've known that I think would have loved to have had kids, but they've reached their late 20s, and they're either still at home or just to get by, they've got to live with multiple roommates, and their only hope of moving out of that situation is to find a long-term partner, but then once they do, they move out,

and it requires a dual income to just make ends meet to afford their bills as is, as is and they're thinking like how how do we introduce a child into this if we're barely scraping by let alone have a large family whereas i look at i mean my father-in-law is one of nine that's unheard of today i don't think i know anybody my age that is on their way way to nine kids except for maybe some bit corners. There's a bit more. It's not the norm nowadays.

I mean, Jeff, would you attribute at least part of that or the bulk of it, I don't know, to the fact that we've kind of been disenfranchised just by the nature of the system? For sure. But in other countries, remember, we're on the winning side of the system. So the worst person here is stealing from other countries at a crazy rate. And when you get into that stage, people are having kids so that they can live, right? So those kids can go out and collect money from other people. So when you look at that across the world, because we live in an extractive system,

and we're closer to the top of that extractive system. And the only reason we're feeling it here is it's starting to affect people here. But this has been going on for a long time. And it's a zero-sum game in the system that we live in. And Bitcoin is a cooperative game. It's a different, complete different game that every node makes. So look at what's happening right now on this. Look at what's happening with Ken.

Let's just use Ken as an example. I'm sorry, I'm going to do this, Ken. But the courage that it takes to step out from what you're doing, what you're doing. Once you understand it, and it takes a long time to understand it, am I right, am I, is this, but the courage that it takes to step out into the, and activate, now you're a node in this system. And because you do that, other people do that too, and they don't know, and they're attacking you everywhere and I watch it and you're getting attacked, but you know all the answers and there is no attack that you can't defend. And people are, or either putting

their head in the sand and taking add on them and attacks, right? And so and and and, but their attack has no merit, zero because you know this is true because you've done all the work. And so you add your voice, you become a node, the network gets stronger by every single person doing this. You're living in the first cooperative game the worlds have ever lived in. It's in service of all of us and it's wild to watch. So is that, what does that mean?

space we are it right all of us every single person adds their voice to it and it gets stronger well the good thing is i'm used to baseless attacks at home so i wish you know we're to hear that joke let me tell you um maybe maybe can i add something yeah yeah go ahead yeah look i got to qualify this with uh i am not qualified to give investment advice so anything i say please don't take it as advice don't trust verify um but i see and by the way i know i'm going to be comparing bitcoin to dollars here and i know that's not what we do i i you know i don't do that anymore um but you know uh i actually think there's an opportunity for people that think that they're shut out of the housing market to place an asymmetrical bet um which i actually think is high

probability but once again don't trust like you could buy a bitcoin for what 80 $37,88,000 US or whatever that is, 120 grand Canadian right now. Right. And if you think that in five years, that's going to go up significantly, there will be a time because like everything's falling to utility value. And at some point in time, they're not so distant future. You'll be able to buy a house for a Bitcoin or less. Really, if you're willing to do it, you can take out a loan in fiat currency for

for a hundred and twenty-grin Canadian, carry it for like four or five years. And at the end of the four or five years, you have a house. So all of a sudden, all these people, like, we see it all the time where we see, you know, a family of two doctors that are priced out of Vancouver. And they have no hope of getting home. And now we're talking about an asymmetrical bet where you take out a loan for 120 grand. I'm not saying do it, but I'm saying think about it. Do your own work.

And if you believe it's going to play out how we think it's going to play out, all of a sudden, you're on the housing market. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it is crazy to see what is what has happened. And I mean, Jeff, you, you know, you've done the whole experiment of, hey, I priced it my house in Bitcoin, however many years ago versus now. And it's just like, you often say, we're living in the future. This is what the future is like. you you pay for something and the money that you paid at the time is going to have greater purchasing

power later so you have to go through the cognition of you know is this do I really want this thing so it also again Ken to your earlier point how it can also be an environmental thing it gets away from the disposable nature of things because people are more conscious of what they purchase like do I want something quality or am I going to buy the rickety crappy thing that I'm going to replace again the next year? No, I'm going to go to, I mean, I've got, I'd always talk about my kitchen table because when I moved into my house, I were looking at the crappy IKEA, whatever. And then we're like, we're going to replace this thing in no time. And instead, what I did is I ended up spending more, but it's for a table that should a tornado roll around. and take out my house, that thing's still going to be standing there.

It's made of solid oak with a marble top, and my friend, who is local, made it for me. And so that thing is like, that's now a family heirloom. So I think it shifts our perception of value, and rather than looking for the cheap, quick thing, you're going to look for the robust thing that's going to last forever, so you never have to replace it. Yeah.

Gentlemen, we're going to do one more rotation. Jeff, I'm going to come to you in just a moment. We're going to take just a quick, quick breather and shout it to sponsors. But everybody that's in the chat, we've got 430 some odd people live on YouTube right now. We've got 2,700 people across all platforms that have been watching throughout the show. And if you all could, if you're in the YouTube live chat, please do give that like button a tap. It really does help. So if you're enjoying the conversation, slap it now.

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And I can't. I'll preface it with that. But we'll segue to you, Jeff. Why are you bullish? So it feeds off what Robin was saying and we talked a little bit about, but I'm at a, I'm at a conference in California right now called Forward Global and it's 400, about 400 family offices, some of the wealthiest families in the world. So there's about $300 billion, $350 billion kind of here looking at philanthropy, how do you make changes in the world? And it's just, it's staggering. So I spoke at a conference. conference like it, a smaller one with a number of different billionaires in Bliss and Costa Rica earlier in the year, kind of connecting the dots between democracy, freedom. And one of the things I'm fascinated by is how many people are trying to fix the system

from the system and making it worse. And all of this money, they can feel the same pain, right? They, they're, and once you get, when you really get to know them, you, in your Bitcoin bubble, you think they're all, these are the bad people and everything else. It couldn't be further from the truth. They actually care about solving some of these. In fact, they're investing billions of dollars into Africa, into different places to try to solve this, into trying to topple dictators and put in democracies.

And all of the dictators are getting more powerful. Right. Why would that, the freedom in the world is going down because if you just said, do you, does anybody actually live in a democracy when you don't have a vote for how much money is being taken from you each year, each year? And I'm not even talking about taxes. I'm just talking about the difference, the gap from the productivity rate that should be deflationary to the inflation rate. You don't have a vote. Right. So, so if you don't have a vote, right? So if you don't have a vote, and probably one of the most important things in your life. We don't live in capitalism. We live in crony capitalism. We don't live in free markets. And that is, and it's such a big deal that that's hard for people to hear the first time because they think they do.

And they think their actions are kind of, you don't want to feel like, you want to feel like you're doing good in the world. And a lot of these people think they are, but they're making it worse. It's not like a whole bunch of Dr. Evils saying, how can I consolidate this? They actually think they're doing good and they're making it worse. And it's the same thing that you face Ben, I faced because at first we had a hedge in Bitcoin. And most of our time was in the other system trying to make enough money to be able to kind of move vehicle. And then we woke up one day and we said, what the hell are we doing?

We're making the other system stronger and we move our time to do that. and we move our time to the new system. And as we move our time to the new system, that everything gets better for us and everyone else because it's this cooperative process. That process, that's why I say it's not about Bitcoin. It's about us. Each one of us, all 8 billion people in the world,

moving down that path. But once you're there, you don't go back. You start to contribute to what you do more. And every single person in Bitcoin, whether you're teaching, yelling at a shit coin, doing what investing in entrepreneurs that are looking for other other vulnerabilities, other

attack vectors, everything building the second, third layer. All of these people building in the Bitcoin are making this network stronger for all of us in service of all of us. And so when I go back and forth between these worlds and I watch how far away they want to get it, but how far away.

And when you crack the code, they'll talk to them in their language, and you crack the code, and you can see their minds melt. And it's going to take some time, because then they have to go through that cognitive dissonance that we all did, and they'll probably start small, and then they'll probably do more. But I'm watching it. I'm watching kind of funds flow move the other way.

It trickle at first, but then it'll be a fly. And again, it happens in each of us as we come to understand this new protocol. There's not, there's few things that are better than getting to live vicariously through somebody that's discovering Bitcoin for the first time. You get to relive that moment. You get to see in their eyes and wish that you had that moment back. it's it's it's very exciting watching people break through those those barriers i i love experiencing it just from a technical perspective but again from from a worldview perspective you know that's not my that's not my my forte but it's i i like i like listening to you talk to people and watch them have their brains melt. It's a fun thing to be around. It's, yeah, it's really something. I'll open it up to

Ken or Robin if you guys want to tackle what Jeff has just said here. Maybe it's interesting. Jeff is actually a huge inspiration of mine. Why I went last year in February, all in Bitcoin. I basically went last year in January said, like, oh, I have to quit this Fiat thing. And I really want to focus on Bitcoin. And I had a YouTube channel with like 400 subscribers, like no no income security, anything like that. Also not a huge Bitcoin stack, but I was like, okay, maybe if I'm good, I can live off my Bitcoin stack maybe for a year. And did this basically. luckily I never had to touch it and it went all good but but I had the realization I had to be in Bitcoin and now I'm getting my incoming Bitcoin actually paying one of my post-production

members in Bitcoin so there's like a circle of economy all of the sudden coming in and this all happened in one year but before that there's there's a lot happening you have to get orange but you have to learn about those things I was a stock pro before I had to go through this barrier that an asset has value also if it doesn't has a cash flow that that was a barrier for mine and and just looking at those stories that Jeff Ben and I also myself and and Ken also went through it takes time to make that switch in in the head and and what's for me also important which is sometimes a little bit overlooked in the Bitcoin community this, we have to do it kindly and not pushing me.

I don't like that attitude of like, have fun staying poor. I'm more of like, let's keep pushing a little bit and let's be there as educators to help them go through that process because I know I needed a solid three years to go over from 2017 to 2020 to even go over that step of Bitcoin is a scam. I needed three years for that. And then I needed another year to go all in with my money and then another three years to also go with my time all in. So it takes time and we should be aware of that and we should not push people hard or even maybe pesticides them with like, have fun staying poor. Yeah.

Yeah. Being a little vulnerable here, maybe. giving you a little bit of history when my boy one of my sons came up to me and said dad i want to buy bitcoin i and my background was i'm a chartered accountant former investment banker private equity so like obviously i must be the smartest person on the planet right so when my boy uh came up to me and said dad i want to buy bitcoin i said you touch that shit i'm going to punch you in the throat and uh and then you know we had these conversations they got curious i spoke with jeff read his book, you know, read 12 books at the time adjacent to not just Bitcoin, but like,

you know, when money dies, like layered economy or token economy, layered money, a whole bunch of bucks, went to a bunch of conferences, and then I flipped. But, you know, I think, and where I'm being vulnerable is, I don't know if I, over the last few years, I haven't afforded, you know, the newbies, the same luxury. come on why don't you get this it's so obvious you know we buy books and read the bitcoin standard and read you know view god bless bitcoin and hear all the things and if you don't get it you know i don't say it overly but it's like jesus but you know what i found actually is um instead of preaching what i've done lately is i've gotten people to you know download uh you know a wallet

of a boshi or a coin house lightning wallet and i just give it them 20 bucks and it happens within a minute and people are like wow that's it yeah can we just demystify the process and i've been doing that for about a month and a half now and i can tell you the uptick in getting people super curious has been um it's been phenomenal just cost you a lot of money yeah you know what here's the thing if we migrate to the bitcoin standard it doesn't cost you Exactly. Or can kind of make this place way better. Yeah.

I, I, uh, so Ken, I want to, I want to throw something, uh, your way in regards to, um, in regards to Vancouver specifically earlier Robin alluded to kind of creating a circular economy, even just amongst him, you know, like paying people that are working for him. Same thing over here on my end. And I've been kind of stringing together living on Bitcoin since 20. 2020. But like, so for those unfamiliar with this website, this is not BTCmap.org. And this is Vancouver. And, and so I'm going to, maybe I'll pull this up here a little bit. But this is, when you get into like downtown Vancouver, there's, there's actually quite a lot of businesses that accept Bitcoin. And you mentioned the coin. this wallet here, but this map is largely thanks to one of the guys from Coinos, coal. That guy is like a one man wrecking ball and he just goes through that city and gets merchants,

brick and mortar merchants to dive into Bitcoin. He helps them through everything, shows them how to use wallets and everything. It's wild what he's able to accomplish. We need a coal in Calgary here. would love to have a coal. Maybe we'll steal him one day. Nope. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. I'll entice him. But I mean, I think this is part of it. I think this is how we win.

Because, yes, like top-down regulatory approval, things like that. Those are very, very nice. But, you know, it's just one regime change away from people stamping that out. And so I think that really where it's at is, is that grassroots building communities of people that understand that this is better money. And I think that, you know, potentially paired with people that are in positions of power that begin to understand it is huge. But without those grassroots communities and people on the ground that are just going to use Bitcoin, no matter what, anyways, that top down is very fragile. And so I love the idea of these communities coming together and people helping each other out with their learning. I'm very excited. I'm going to be in town for this coming up learning Bitcoin in Vancouver, August 16th and the 17th.

Jeff and Ken, are you going to be around for that? Yeah, I'm going to be there for sure. I think I'm speaking there as well. So I can't be. I can't believe I can't be in Vancouver for the conference. I was there in Victoria last year. But funny enough, my son is speaking at that conference. Oh, I'm going to have to hit my car.

Tell them we'll be there. I'll tell them I'll be there. But yeah, I mean, it's super exciting. If any of you are ever out Calgary way, the way that we're trying to accomplish it, we've got the sat market here. And so we went to the Bitcoin meetups first and said, like, hey, you all have businesses. You do, you know, offer goods and services. and all these different things.

You already know that Bitcoin's better money. Why wouldn't you just, you know, you're earning dollars and buying Bitcoin. Why don't you cut out one of those steps and accept Bitcoin as well and save some of that? And, you know, we've been running this for about a year, year and a half. We've got another one coming up end of June and around the Bitcoin rodeo, which is an event that we throw here yearly. And now because of this, I can get so much stuff with Bitcoin. I just stocked my freezer with beef for Bitcoin.

I've got a Bitcoin dentist. I've got a Bitcoin personal trainer. I've got a Bitcoin plumber because my three-year-old likes to shove toys down the toilet. I've got all kinds of great stuff that I can get with Bitcoin. And it's just thanks to building local communities with like-minded people. And I think it's a beautiful thing. And I love seeing that in Vancouver. I love seeing that all around.

So, Ben, I love what you're doing. doing there. And it just, what we did in Madeira was the same thing. Like one year ago, Madeira had, I think, 39 or 42 Bitcoin businesses. And it felt like a community like this, because Madeira is a small place. You know what I mean businesses they have now? No. One year later, over 300. Oh my God. The number of tourists that are going to Bitcoin, to spend the Bitcoin, and then community that you have a circular economy that you can buy anything. in that region. And that's available to any single region in the world.

And it's happening. Why? How is it happening? It's happening by people like you or people who are coin us or people just going and doing it. And it's individuals changing, literally changing other people's lives through this. It's wild to watch. Yeah. It's excellent.

Yeah. Can I just add one thing? Look at it. I don't get paid to plug people or whatever. There's no stake in the outcome here. coinos has been absolutely great. They came to one of our companies to, you know, bring a way of accepting Bitcoin at our location. I'm not going to mention the name of the company, but it's ours.

And they were absolutely amazing, and they made it so simple. And so if anyone's thinking about it, you know, called Coinos, they're awesome. Hell yeah. I also think about what, because like most people are probably a little bit uneasy, it's just going around the, the really orange pill every merchant. But what everyone can do, and I tried that out, and it's really easy and I think it has some impact. It's like if you come to the point of paying, as you would do, like, oh, like cash, credit card just dropping in like, oh, can I pay with Bitcoin?

And in that way, just that one question maybe sparks something and maybe then a little bit later, someone else comes in. And when there's two people in a week or like two people in two weeks, I think that makes a huge difference. So even if you don't orange pill really hard, just asking the question, how can I pay in Bitcoin might make some difference. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Well, gents, I'm cognizant of time, but there's one thing that I wanted to touch on before we go. And maybe I'll segue.

I know, Jeff, you wanted to touch on a particular topic. So I'm going to, I'll volley it to you and just get your thoughts on the topic at hand. Yeah, so Luke dropped in the post earlier on about people using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange. And that's important. And we've talked about why that's important. And I saw a bunch of comments in the chat as well as save your Bitcoin, no matter what, don't spend it. And so think about the world that we're about to go through. And what has always happened to money.

Like, money has always been centralized. And if it's always been centralized and then change the rules on money for 5,000 years, then we must be part of the thing that's centralizing it. Right. We fall for a trick of the inflationary monetary system. We trust institutions. We fall for that and we remove our accountability because we trust somebody else has it. So if it's always looked like that and then gold gets repriced like in 1933 or 1971 because it's centralized,

why would that look any different now? Right? Because are we smarter than we've ever been? And I don't think that that's true. I think it's just the, it seems so easy to use the system and because that's the way the system looks. So imagine what's going to happen. You know, you know for sure what's going to happen.

Most people will measure Bitcoin price go up because they're so used to it. Where they're really saying, I'm trading this for a piece of paper at some point. They'll sell their Bitcoin and it'll be centralized by BlackRock, the government's, everything else will be central. All of those will be held at Coinbase. It'll keep on centralizing. And if they don't spend it, it'll continue to be centralized. And they'll trust all of the ETFs and everything else.

They won't self-custody because that will feel hard. The other thing will be easier. They'll use tether as they're on wrap. And then the attack will come. That attack wouldn't come now. It couldn't come now because right now there are so many nodes that know that that attack ECHO-KEM, that that chain, the cheating chain, would go to zero today. But fast forward four years, if people have all got rich in Bitcoin and they've trusted

that system, fast forward four years from now, and they're all centralized, what would happen? And I think people need to realize kind of what these systems are incompatible. One is the free market prices fall. One is extractive market prices rise. If you're measuring Bitcoin in the extractive market, you're part of the old system. And you will get, you'll probably take risk with your Bitcoin. You'll probably not be in self-custody.

You probably not run a node. And at some point that chain is going to try to attack this chain. It has to because they're completely opposite systems. And what I suspect is going to happen because what's happening so fast is this network of people spending in Bitcoin and all of the other tools like Fetament and other things to make this entire circular economy. By the time that attack comes, if it comes, that's true hyper-bitcoinization because the cheating chain and all of the people that are in that are going to

get wiped out by the honest. But what that takes is to understand what's happening and to be part of the network. Spend, if you're spending in it, you can always buy more the next day, right? You buy more right away. But if you're spending in it, you're incentivizing the network,

the world that you want to see. If you're not, you're consolidating, you're centralizing. Sorry for that rent, but it's a really important, topic that most people are going to get confused about because this is this is such a deep we've never seen this type of technology that can stay decentralized and secure and our human need or how we think about it we will we will trust others or most people will trust other so it's important we talk about this what is likely to come so we're ready and people have already

moved and you have the rails of commerce in the new system that provides abundance to all 8 billion of us. I want to. Can I catch just quickly? I think because of what you have just said, a lot of people confused the spending Bitcoin of selling Bitcoin and spending me because just using basically the network. And you can still have a positive cash flow. You can still accumulate more Bitcoin each month while spending your Bitcoin.

because we also saw one comment of saying, like, oh, why should I spend my Bitcoin, then I basically just spend it to someone that stacks it. But you can stack it and use the system and still get more Bitcoin even while spending it. I think that's a very important point. I like minimizing my exposure to the Fiat system in every possible way. I mean, when somebody asked to pay me in dollars, I, I, I, I, Well, I shudder a little bit.

But also, I actively, like when I'm pricing things, when somebody wants to pay me, I actually charge a Fiat premium now. So it's like if somebody wants to pay me in dollars, I feel like, yes, you could do discounts in Bitcoin. And that's a valid way of doing it as well, of incentivizing things. But I feel that the way that you communicate is so much better when you say the price is this. And then somebody says, okay, great, I'd love to pay you. And you say, oh, you're paying in dollars. Okay, there's a premium on that because it communicates how little I enjoy being paid in dollars.

I don't want it. I don't want to deal with the bank accounts. I want the money to land and be mine immediately to do it as I please because there's been so many, barring that other thing that happened a few years ago, there's been plenty of times where I've gone to use bank accounts. And it's just like, oh, this got flagged. You can't do this. There's a limit here. There's where you have Bitcoin.

It's just yours. It's like cash in your pocket. You can use it as you please. And it's just, you know that you have full control over it. And I just love that feeling. So Ken, I don't know if you have anything to add there, but feel free. Yeah, I don't feel it's a pain in the ass. You know, and every time we try to deal with the banks, it's so clunky.

Like, so from a practical perspective, If I actually hate dealing with the banks, you know, they're shut down half the time. If you ever have to wire something or do whatever, they charge you a fortune. And things get delayed. I just dealt with it this week. I had a wire transfer delayed a week. It's crazy. And like when you're, you know, transferring Bitcoin, it happens instantaneously.

So no, we use it. We transact in it. The only challenge we have is because every single, in Canada, every time you do a transaction, technically it's a capital transaction. But the amounts we do right now are still so small, it's irrelevant. But what we have to do is we have to change the tax code here or, you know, we're not going to get mass adoption. You see what tries to, you know, enforce it.

Yeah, yeah. It would be a tad daunting figuring out the gains on your latte, maybe. But, you know, such as life. But, I mean, again, like the local markets and stuff like that, it's just, it's nice to just be able to side proud dad moment at the last sat market. My seven-year-old daughter was running around with her iPad. And there's a bunch of merchants that are just kind of learning Bitcoin and they're accepting it. And they're fiddling with their wallets figuring out how to create an invoice.

And my daughter's just ready there, ready to pay. She already knows what's up. Everybody's like, who the hell is this kid? that just is able to do all this. And I'm off to the side like, that's fine. So yeah, proud dad moment there. She spent some sats and was very excited about it. And now if she gets a lounge or something,

she's starting to ask for Bitcoin for it because she's getting it. So anyways, gentlemen, I'm going to round it out here. I want to say a huge thank you to you guys for coming, getting bullish with me on a Friday. evening everybody in the chat thank you guys for being here please do give that like button a tap it really really does help out the show and uh if anybody here is still on their learning journey and they're trying to figure out things like wallets hardware running a node you've probably heard that a few times this episode even just like hobbyist home mining all that kind of stuff uh you can check

out my team over at bitcoin mentor dot i oh and uh that's where you can book one-on-ones to help you through stuff. Of course, all the free tutorial exists on the channel as well. So peruse through those, but if you need some handholding, there's a QR code you can scan and head over to Bitcoin Mentor. Dotio. But with that, gentlemen, thank you. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful evening and to everybody that came. This was great. Thanks for being here. I'm Ben with the BTC sessions. This was your daily session. See you guys. Thanks, guys. Thanks.

Bye-bye.