BTC Sessions - Could Bitcoin Save Us From Wildfires?! Feat Bitcoin Shooter, Sue Ennis and Tom Honzik

Episode Date: January 11, 2025

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://x.com/BitcoinShooter https://x.com/bigsuey https://x.com/tom_honzik FOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/BTCsessions [e-mail] BOOK private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted. https://bitcoinmentor.io/ JOIN OUR AFFILIATE PROGRAM, EARN BITCOIN FOR REFERRALS! https://bitcoinmentor.io/affiliate-registration/ 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Use The Bitcoin Well - my favourite self custody bitcoin platform in Canada and USA! They offer KYC free accounts, 1% spread, no on-chain fees and tons of other incredible features. Check them out at: https://bitcoinwell.com/btcsessions COINKITE offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions HODLHODL is a NON-CUSTODIAL, ANONYMOUS solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION Speedwallet - your one wallet to send, receive, shop & earn. Simple, fast and convenient! Download now, use code BTCSESSIONS10 via this link & get 5,000 SATs on your first transaction. https://speedbtcwallet.onelink.me/cGph/ssbtcsession DEBIFI is a non-custodial Bitcoin backed lending platform with institutional grade liquidity providers, loan periods of up to 5 years, and no rehypothecation of your funds. Find them at: https://debifi.com/ #btc #bitcoin #crypto

Yo, what is going on, everybody? Welcome to this show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? In my opinion, the best Bitcoin panel show out there. I'm very excited to have our guests today, but we're going to be talking about some interesting things. There are some devastating wildfires happening in California and L.A. right now. One of our guests is there. My sister also lives in L.A.

And I feel for everybody down there. But there's an interesting line of conversation that we may go down. Do Bitcoin miners play a unique role in potentially helping the aftermath of this situation? We're going to get into that and plenty more of this episode. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. All right. So as we said, again, it's been absolutely devastating down there in L.A.

It's absolutely insane. So we're going to be chatting about that here with our guests off the hop. We're going to be having in Sue Ennis from Hut 8. They've been mining for ages, and they were boasting some impressive hash power as of December 2024. A number of X-A-Hash? I'm losing the number, but she'll be joining us from Hut-A-8. They are absolutely awesome. We've also got Bitcoin Shooter, an incredibly talented filmmaker whose most recent work is

No More Inflation, I highly recommend you go check it out at no moreinflation.com. And finally, we're going to have Tom Hanzig from one of my favorite companies, Unchained, love these guys, fantastic solution when it comes to assisted multisig and plenty more. So I'm going to kill my screen here, and I'm going to bring them all up on stage. So welcome to the stage, Sue, Shooter, and Tom. Thank you guys so much for being here. How are you guys doing? Hey, thanks for having us.

Pretty pumped to be here. Lots to chat about. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we're going to get right into it. I also want to give a shout out to everybody in the chat. Thank you guys for being here. I'm already, we've got across all platforms right now.

We've got 200 plus people already tuning in. So everybody, especially over on YouTube, if you can, give that like button a little smash. Let's see how quickly we can get up to 50 likes and beyond. And if you do a good job, we're going to give some. SAT giveaways in between each guest. So smash that like button. Let's help get this out there. But Sue, I'm turning to you first for your reason for being bullish. And it has to do in and around what's happening in LA. So a simple question for you, maybe not, but why are you bullish? So outside of being incredibly bullish because of the incoming administration, a new pro-crypto

SEC chair and just a very pro-cropto administration that's coming in, more ways for RAAs for the general public to actually buy crypto and understand what it is, particularly Bitcoin, I think what's going to be really interesting is to see people learn more and get a better understanding of how Bitcoin miners help with things like grid management and load balancing. So let's zoom out. Over 200,000 people have been displaced in L.A. over five people dead. It's absolutely terrible what has been happening in L.A. So now what causes wildfires? A lot different things. No one knows the exact cause yet of these LA fires. There's been a lot of different theories. Wild drought, dry vegetation, complete lack of water. I have heard some stuff about arson,

but who knows that that's real. But one of the other things that can cause wildfires is voltage issues on grids. So if there is a voltage issue, if there is a spike on the grid and the demand on the grid is imbalance that can cause the grid to overheat or if there's issues with power lines on the grid that can cause the grid to overheat, create sparks, and then effectively light up dry vegetation in the surrounding areas and cause a wildfire. And so one of the things that Bitcoin miners are very good at doing is balancing grids. We can power up in periods of, because the other nuances that grids need to be balanced at all times in order to function effectively and avoid those spikes that can cause too much heat and create a wildfire. So the one thing Bitcoin

miners are incredibly good at is. powering up when there are periods of not enough demand on the grid and the grid needs to be balanced in that sense or powering down if there's too much demand on the grid and they need a little less power being pulled on that grid. So Bitcoin miners are incredibly instrumental in that. And this is where I think that there's going to be greater focus on Bitcoin mining as not just a means to capture more Bitcoin, but also to really help stabilize grids and that we really are a partner in terms of energy management systems. And so I'm pretty jazzed about that. that there's going to be more conversation around that.

This is so, again, this is something that more and more people are beginning to recognize in and around Bitcoin mining. We had the early fud of, you know, bitcoins, not only boiling the oceans, but eating up all of the power and taking it away from people that need it. And there's just, it couldn't be further from the truth. And, you know, Bitcoin miners, it's so cutthroat. you have to go at the most efficient mechanisms of obtaining power that you can.

Can you maybe outline how Hutt 8 has kind of tackled this thus far? Like where are you guys looking at? And what have you guys been doing? Yeah, absolutely. So we manage a little under 800 megawatts or so of power. And we disclose that we've got 430 megawatts of potential AI megawatts coming online. And then we've got another 205 megawatts of Bitcoin mining infrastructure coming online in West Texas. And so, but our total portfolio of power is like north or pipelines or our total pipeline of potential power deals is north of three gigawatts.

We've got a power first power native team. But I think in terms of, you know, what has Hut done, we were one of the first guys to actually co-locate with a wind farm and provide what I'm speaking about, which is balancing grids and things like renewable grids using Bitcoin mining. So we were one of the first guys to do that in 2021. We've got a lot of front of the meter and behind the meter relationships in the power space. And again, really driving home that message that we are partners in the transition to renewable energy because renewable energy also needs load and grid balancing. We are partners in effectively all things energy management is really something that we're super focused on moving. forward. Yeah, and I want to bring up a comment in the chat, which is on point. Again, people

often criticize Bitcoin mining, but they tend to ignore AI data centers and all that. Why do you think the bad rap for Bitcoin mining or like the focus on specifically the fact that Bitcoin uses energy when there's so many other things that use even more energy? Yeah, for sure. Well, again, And I do think that that bad rep has been changing. So I've been in the industry since late 2016 or early 2017. And I do think that regulators, lawmakers, like the media fud around Bitcoin being bad for the environment is starting to assuage versus hitting all-time highs in 2021. I mean, I think initially it was because there was this perception that Bitcoin mining

was for, you know, trafficking drugs on the dark web. It was potentially going to be a threat to KYC and money laundering and used for money laundering and all of that. And so I think that that perception is starting to change. And then people obviously had to point to the environment just sort of that extra layer of fud back in the day. Again, I do think that's starting to change. But yeah, again, I think it's a whole new game with this new incoming administration. Yeah. I've got one more question in the chat before we get the thoughts of Shooter and Tom here as well and whatever they want to add to the conversation. Sue, Is there a run for prime minister in your future or is that off the table?

Absolutely not. I would be the worst prime minister. I am way too blunt. I'm way too much shit. There is no, I'd be the worst prime minister. I mean, we have the worst prime minister. It's true. Okay, you're right. You're right. I would be the second worst prime minister in history. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. So barring prime ministerial runs, uh, shooter, Tom. Where are you guys at with this line of thinking Bitcoin? You know, obviously it's not like Bitcoin doesn't put out the fires, but it does help with certain aspects of, you know,

things that can be parts of that can contribute to bad outcomes when grids aren't balanced. And even just if you want to touch on misconceptions and kind of where we're at and where you think we're headed in and around Bitcoin mining, either of you, if you want to dive in. You want to go, Tom? Sure, yeah. Mining, I feel like, is one of the subjects that I know the least about. So it's awesome having Sue here to talk more about that.

It's one of those things that for me, it was a huge light bulb moment learning about Bitcoin. You know, first you kind of have the initial light bulb moment of like this solves inflation. But like I had never really known that. But when you have excess energy, that's a big problem, you got to figure out what to do with it. And so, you know, there's batteries, I guess, but those fill up and everything. And so learning that you have this like perpetual buyer of energy in Bitcoin and AI to the extent that there's demand for that is just mind blowing. And it just expands into so many other interesting points. Like I had never considered, you know, Sue's point about overheating and stuff if you have too much energy and potentially leading to fire hazard and stuff.

So it's just awesome that you can truck over Bitcoin miners, plug them in and take care of that problem. Awesome. Shooter, I'll toss it to you. Yeah, right on. Well, first of all, what's up, Nathan Fitzsimmons? I see them in the comments there. Give me a shout out. What's up? And I also see Alani there with the Satisphir, which I see you have in the background there, Ben.

That's a cool little piece of technology that globe moves without any electricity somehow, some way. It's pretty magical. Yeah, the mining stuff is interesting. Part of the film that I made, I went in North Dakota with a huddle tarantula, and he was, you know, mining off a flare gas. And of course, I went to Kenya to see what gridless is doing out there. They're basically making small power plants more profitable, which is bringing more electricity to people that have never had electricity before. So, yeah, mining is quickly becoming, like, my favorite aspect of Bitcoin because it's like it's the physical aspect of Bitcoin, right? Like, the guys that are working on mining are like these jacked, like, you know, like battle scars, you know, because they're carrying all this heavy machinery and they're out there a lot of times in very dangerous environments.

And those guys are real badass people. And so I think, yeah, there's a lot of applications for it. And I think any smart government will start to look at different areas of, you know, how Bitcoin mining can help. Why don't we have mines on every single flare, you know, that's causing pollution? Why don't we have mines balancing every single grid, right? I mean, I personally don't have power right now. And of course, it's maybe because of the winds and, you know, maybe they knock down some transformers. But, you know, in Los Angeles, we have blackouts, you know, at least.

a couple of times a year. And so yeah, so that's super bullish. You know, of course on the flip side, it makes me a little bit cautious about centralizing mining and having, you know, bigger and bigger farms out there. And if government wants to regulate or something like that, then, you know, I'm in like the Bob Burnett camp. I want to have as many small, you know, rabbits and horses out there as possible. And I think the big guys, the elephants, you know, as he calls them, want that too. Because, you know, if you do have more small guys out there, then, you And really that attack on the big guys becomes irrelevant. Why would you attack the big guys if you know that if you do that, the small guys are going to keep running anyway.

So, yeah, I'm bullish on mining. I think we're just scratching the surface of the applications of it. And yeah, yeah, that's what I got to say. Yeah. So I'm curious what you think about all these little fun home mining projects that are popping up. Because obviously you're, yeah, it's cool. You're in a different world, but like I just booted up a future bit here and I'm working on a video for it. I've got the brains mini minor beside it.

I've done the nerd acts. I've got a bitax off to the side. Then I'm going to be doing a video on. Like, how are you receiving this? Yeah. No, I think it's awesome. And it's also the whole, that's one of the fundamental ethos of Bitcoin, right? Like access for all.

and decentralization. So I am super pro all the different ways to add more stats to the balance to stack stats. Personally, I've never actually tried to mine Bitcoin, but I tried mining helium and that went horribly, horribly awry. But Bitcoin is next on my list. The company I ordered the server from never actually came and they ended up going bankrupt. And I think there's like a claim with my name on it somewhere in Louisiana, but whatever. But no, I love it. I think it's great.

The more solutions, the better, the more access for everyone to be able to participate in this network, the better, in my opinion. Yeah. And I love the Bidax project in particular because a lot of the mining, like the OS and everything on a lot of miners, it's very close. Like it's, we've, with all our software and our hardware, we have this open source ethos. And then, you know, when it comes to Bitcoin mining the firmware, it's kind of like, like it's a black box. And so Bidax made a point to make everything open source. And so like you can see exactly what's happening.

And if only to just kind of give that nudge of like, hey, let's, we're going to start moving in this direction. I would love to see one of the big chip manufacturers or like a new one pop up that has a different ethos. I think it's it's ripe for disruption in my opinion. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. Now, I'm curious for those in the chat that are watching this right now, I did see Chad. He got his full bit axe for Christmas. Let us know in the chat, if you have played around with mining in any capacity, we'd love to see it. And yeah, I guess for this topic, does anybody have any closing thoughts before we do a rotation? jump into our next line of thinking. Any final things or recommendations for people in and around

this topic? Maybe I'll just pose a quick question. So if somebody is curious about mining, what are the avenues of exploration? I would definitely, I mean, look, I would start on Hutt's main page. We've got a lot of information there in terms of like, what is Bitcoin, what is Bitcoin mining, what are the different ways to play in it? Luxor, has some really great research as well. I mean, just Twitter in general has a ton of solid, solid resources. The Bitcoin mining mafia, shout out to the Bitcoin Mining Mafia.

That's a major community that goes into all things Bitcoin mining. But yeah. I'll mention something here too. So I think there's a couple ways of doing it, right? If you're going to try to do it yourself where you are, you have to check your energy price first of all, right? Because that'll just, you won't be able to to do it if the price is too high.

But if you still want to get involved, you still have the capital to buy machines. You may want to link up with somebody like Haudel Tarantula who's out there in, you know, native reservation land, sovereign land. Yeah, in North Dakota. And, you know, he's kind of doing this hosting thing, right, where he's literally tapping into those, those flares. And, and you can power your machines out there that way. But otherwise, you know, just get your hands on a machine, even a bit axe and just

you know, get it going, point it at a pool, ocean, you know, and just kind of see how it goes. But I think if someone's really going to try to take it seriously and really do it on your own, based on what I've heard from Hoddle Tarantula and other miners, like, be ready to learn a lot of stuff because, you know, you're going to have to know electrical networking, HVAC, depending on the energy you're dealing with, you know, sometimes like mechanical stuff too. So if you're going to really do it all yourself, be ready to learn the full stack and, you know, be, you got to be kind of a person that's, that's hungry to learn all those things. Otherwise, you're going to pay people to come out and do those things for you and that's going to kind of, you know, eat into the profits too. So, yeah, either link up with somebody like a huddle tarantula, you know, who can help you or if you're going to do it on your own, just be ready for a full time, you know, a deep dive here.

So, yeah, that's what I would say. Yeah. And again, if you're diving in, if you just want to dip your toes in and learn things like BitX, things like Future Bit, things like Brains Mini Miner, things like NerdX and those projects, those are lower cost opportunities where you can just buy a little thing, have a weekend project, learn about Bitcoin, and then have, we'll call it like a forever lottery ticket sitting on you just solo mine. You're probably not going to hit a block, but you're going to learn. Some of them double as a node as well. So you've got a fun little tool. You've got a talking piece. And then who knows, maybe one day you get surprised with 3.125 Bitcoin. And it has happened before on bid axes and on a future bit. So yeah, and shout out to everybody in the chat.

I see a few people that are running like bit axes, future bits, different things here. So, yeah, love to hear it. But with that, let's put a ball on that topic. We're going to keep on going here. We're going to do a quick rotation. Before we do, we're just going to give a quick shout out to sponsors of the show. So we'll be back in just one moment. We'll see you guys here.

And we're going to move on to Shooter. Shooter's got a very interesting topic to bring to us. So we'll be right back. Bitcoin Well is the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S. And now with Bitcoin Well Infinite, it's also the best place to be making large buys at their OTC desk of over $50,000. Their white glove service gives you fast transactions, no slippage, and the lowest fees. You can scan the QR code on the screen or simply head to Bitcoinwell.com slash BTC sessions to sign up today. And you can share your own personalized referral link to earn commissions.

Coin kite has been in the game for years creating hands down the best and most secure hardware when it comes to securing your Bitcoin. The cold card cue is an absolute. powerhouse and my daily driver and it's ideal for newcomers and advanced users alike. The tab signer gives you a low-cost user-friendly option for those just getting started or for convenience when traveling. You can head to coin kite.com and use code BTC sessions for discounts or simply scan the QR code on the screen to get started right away. All right, we are back in. We're going to give away some sats really quick before we get into

our next topic here. Again, everybody in the chat. Thank you for being here. here, please do go ahead and smash that like button. Let's see how quickly we can get to 50 over on YouTube. And of course, thank you for everybody watching across every platform. Currently, we have around 1,500, actually getting close to 1550 people that have watched across every platform so far this evening. But this is Bitcoin. Well, I'm on right now. Great place to stack SaaS in Canada and the U.S. And the way it works is when you sign up, when you buy Bitcoin, when you refer friends, you earn points, and you can use those points to toss a coin in the Bitcoin wishing well. I have a QR code that is now going up on the side of the screen, not over our faces,

if you want to check them out, but you don't need to be on Bitcoin well to claim the free sats. We're about to give away. I'm going to toss a coin in the well right now. If you've got a lightning wallet, first person to scan the QR code that pops up will snag the sats from everybody else and there's 200 and 10 that we've got there. So whoever scans that first steals, let us know if you got it in the chat or in the comments down below. And congrats to whoever did. And hey, if you guys get us up to 50 likes, we'll do another giveaway later in the show. But with that, let's give a rotation shooter. I am looking straight at you. I'm going to queue you up as well. Why are you bullish? Right. So, yeah.

All this stuff in Los Angeles is making me really bullish, guys. Because as many of you know, lots of people, unfortunately, you know, have lost their houses. And the rest of the people are still worried, like, keeping an eye on their phone because these fires seem to be spreading and popping up wherever and then spreading. And so this whole time, people have kind of, no matter where you are in Los Angeles, feel like, hey, maybe a fire might be headed in my eyes. away in the next 15 minutes or something like that. And so what I see is really people starting to lose confidence in the government, right? Now you could be looking at us and yeah, you know, in California, maybe we don't clear our dead foliage, you know, yeah, our hydrants are running out of water and, you know,

the mayor is cutting $17 million for the firefighters a couple months ago and over 100 firefighters got fired because they don't want to take the jab and people aren't getting hired because they're white because they want to make sure they have a diverse group of people. We have lots and lots of homeless people. They start fires all the time. We don't know if they started these or any of these. Someone did get taken into custody. It was walking around with a blow torch somewhere around Brentwood, I think, which literally trying to set a fire. Do you know, L.A. is insane. Can I just interrupt and say L.A. is crazy. What the hell? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's good. Yeah, go ahead and laugh. But, you know, everybody's going to

pay for this because the federal government has said that they're going to pay for a hundred percent of the recovery costs for the first 180 days. So, you know, you know where that money's coming from. They're going to be printing that money. And so, you know, you're all paying for it. Anybody who has anything that's tied to the U.S. dollar and pretty much the whole world is tied to the U.S. dollar, you're all paying for the lack of accountability over here, right? But you know who's not paying for it is the insurance companies, right? I mean, even they looked at the situation and they're like, we don't trust that California is going to handle these fires well. And, you know, they've canceled insurance policies over the last couple of months. So, yeah, why am I bullish? Because

more disasters like this are going to happen. And more money is going to be printed to take on these disasters, which is going to cause inflation. But also, people are going to lose confidence more and more in the government when they realize how incompetent they are. And those two things are what lead to hyperinflation, right? The money is backed by confidence. People lose confidence. You know, the money is going to inflate. So, you know, pain is a really strong motivator. Like, you know, I think maybe Ben has said this before, but I think Justin Trudeau orange-pilled more Canadians than, you know, Ben or Samson Mao or Francis or, you know, everything. every other hockey playing maple syrup eating moose loving Canadian Bitcoin out there.

You know, so yeah, it's a it's a reason to be bullish. Unfortunately, you know, pain is what a lot of people need to actually wake up. But when the prices go up and when the confidence of the government goes down, the solution becomes abundantly clear. It's, it's Bitcoin. So, yeah, I guess that's a silver lining in all of it. But that's why I'm bullish. Government incompetence, I guess.

That's how I would sum it up. Yeah, yeah. Sue, I know that you have to drop soon. You've got somewhere to get to, but I want to give you the opportunity to briefly touch on what Shooter said and we'll go from there. Yeah, I have to roll, unfortunately, but I could not agree with Bitcoin shooter more. Confidence in government goes down. Bitcoin goes up. I mean, it really is the counter argument to complete government incompetence.

And this is yet another of many, many, many examples. Totally agree. Thank you so much for having me. Talk to you guys soon. All right, Sue. Thanks for being here. Cheers. Awesome.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'll pick up where Sue chimed in there. You know, the reason that Bitcoin was created in the first place was government incompetence when saddled with the insanely important. important task of managing money. And it was very quickly exploited. And in many instances in history, like nobody should be able to be tasked with that thing, but we didn't have better options. And so, yeah, when you say, you know, confidence in our institutions is being whittled the way to nothing, that's absolutely true. In fact, it's, it falls in line with a couple books. that Bitcoiners hold near and dear, one being the sovereign individual and another one being

the fourth turning. You know, like those books are basically so prescient in pointing out kind of the cycles that govern our lives and kind of the ebb and flow of like the victories and the defeats of humanity, but also the implication of kind of where we're at in a digital world and how humanity is reacting to it. And so the sovereign individual was, uh, was written in 96 and it talked about, uh, the implications of a digital world where we can communicate seamlessly worldwide, but also potentially be free to move wherever we want and go to jurisdictions that, that, uh, treat us the best and be able to, you know, the missing piece of the puzzle at the time

that they stated was the money, the, the, the mechanism to communicate to, communicate value. And so they cited that as this happened and same in the fourth turning, that there's this dissolution of trust in all of our major institutions. And we're seeing that more and more. Nobody trusts the news. Nobody trusts the government. Nobody trusts the medical establishment. All of these things, like the amount of trust in all of our major institutions are just in our lifetimes, at least in my lifetime, is just record lows. And so what we're seeing with Bitcoin is a response to that, a response to the idea that that those, when there's the incentive to pervert the system, the people at the top will not be

able to resist those incentives for long. and Bitcoin is an answer to the money side of it. And yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate that everything has to get so crappy to get this knee-jerk response for these things to be created. But the tools are there and they're starting to come to fruition and people are starting to be able to use them and take advantage of them. So, I mean, that is ultra-bullish in a harsh light, but it is coming to fruition. So I want to get Tom's thoughts here as well, and then maybe we can jump back to Shooter. If there's anything that you heard, you want to touch on. Awesome.

Yeah, that was an awesome riff by Shooter there. And I actually lived in California for many years, and it's kind of been sort of an ongoing problem with the forest fires. And California's just been criticized ongoing in terms of managing forests. Also, I believe the biggest utility company in California is PG&E, and they don't have the best reviews from the people using them. And so, yeah, it's just time and time again year after year. I would agree that people are just losing trust and faith in the government. They keep demonstrating incompetence.

Things are not improving, despite. elections trying to shake things up. It's the same game over and over again. One thing that that my mind went to as well is like, you know, there's been other big natural disasters in recent history in the United States with like hurricanes in the East Coast and stuff. And there too, we saw so much, you know, incompetency from the government. You know, they just, people were not getting the help that they needed. The funding wasn't there. Meanwhile, money's being sent to, you know, overseas warfare, et cetera. And so it's very, it's very frustrating. And I think things are really kind of amping up in terms of people kind of not trusting the government anymore,

because it seems like the government is almost not even trying in some extent now to continue the facade. Like one thing that caught my eye recently was like the the drones in New Jersey. Like we never got an answer on that as far as I know. And so you've got the government telling us that everything's fine and they, but they won't tell us what's happening. And so it's all very frustrating. And I think I think it's spot on that this is driving force bringing people to Bitcoin because why should anyone have any faith? in the Federal Reserve or the Treasury Department or, you know, anybody that is claiming to lead the show in terms of the monetary system when they can't even get these kind of basic things,

right, that we need to survive. So, you know, people need to start looking elsewhere. And Bitcoin's the obvious place to look. It's growing fast. And yeah, these things are just going to to keep happening, maybe even accelerate, unfortunately. Yeah, sure. You were notting a lot. It sounded like you wanted to maybe add something there. Yeah, again, I think it's like, even if you're in like a Goldilocks city or town or state where your government is actually good in the United States, right?

I mean, these things still affect you, right? Like if these big states, California, New York, whatever, we have these disasters and the federal government's going to come bail. out and you're still using the dollar. Like, you're paying for it, man. You know, so I hope it's a wake-up call for these other states that's like, if you really want to, you know, reap the fruits of your own labor, of your own competence, you know, and not be pulled down with other governments that are causing these issues, then you've got to start putting your money in Bitcoin. Otherwise, you're just anchoring yourself to the dollar in these incompetent governments. And, yeah,

I hope that it makes people want to take more responsibility for themselves, right? Because, I mean, as a Californian, you know, I would want to look to myself and say, well, next year, if there's fires again, I can't count on the government to protect me. What can I do to protect myself? And another thought I've been thinking about lately is, you know, there's all this talk about Bitcoin's public ledger and the privacy problem and, you know, we've got to get privacy tools, which I think would be good. But on the flip side, you know, if the government's on.

on Bitcoin, like we can actually look at what they're doing too, right? Where if all this money is coming in to help with fires or different things, like, where is that actually going? Because like Tom is saying, you know, we're supposed to be clearing these forest floors and, and I think supposedly Newsom had said, you know, the governor of California had said that they cleared like 90,000 acres in the last couple of years or something like that. But some independent study showed they only did like 11 or something like that. So again, it's just like, I've always felt that if people have more transparency on the money, you know, and they should want more transparency in the money, like where is this money actually going? What are you actually doing to help prevent this next year? So anyway, maybe the transparency of the ledger is actually a good thing. I mean, the current ledgers we have now, fine, you know, with the banks, they're not, they're not transparent to everybody, but the banks can see everything, right? It's like a one-way door where they can see all of our stuff, but we can't see theirs.

So actually maybe with a public ledger, the government and these bigger institutions that typically are the only ones that have the privacy, maybe they're the ones that actually, you know, lose the most in that situation. So anyway, yeah, that's all I got to say. So this is what I really like about this. Like with our existing system, it's ass backwards, right? You've got the people with the most responsibility for other people's money. You've got the banks and the central banks. And you've got this, again, it's so, it's so obfuscated. You have no idea what's going on.

You have like the Pentagon not able to account for like, is it trillions with a T? Something like some ridiculous amount of money that they just, they're just, oh, we failed another audit. But so you have governments not accountable at all to let like orders of magnitude worse than their entire populace. And then you have a government pulling out a magnifying glass for your $600 Venmo. And it's so it's so ass backwards. But with Bitcoin, what you can have is when governments are dealing and they're, you know, you can, we should be expecting the most transatlantic. transparency when people have to deal with other people's monies. So when it comes to central banks, governments, and regular commercial banks, those should be super transparent. Everybody

should be able to audit those guys. Whereas the individual should be able to have their privacy, you know, barring them being suspected and probably, you know, implicated in a crime. then yeah, you look at the individual person, you try to find them, but it's just completely backwards how it exists. With Bitcoin, it's possible to say like, hey, here's, you know, force the government to have a singular, you know, on-chain address. We can audit it. That's for this department. What's this transaction for? What did you do here? Who authorized this? But when it comes to individuals, maybe you're able, maybe you're using lightning or some form of e-cash or something that gives you privacy for your day-to-day expenditures. I don't need people being able to audit that I went and bought a stake or something like that.

I don't need, nobody needs to be auditing that type of stuff for these day-to-day transactions. So I think this is the system that Bitcoin can give us. and it's just a matter of whether we reach out and take it or whether something else is forced upon us. So how are you feeling about that, Tom? I agree with most of what you said there. I don't know if I have too much to add in that department, but I do want to give a quick shout out to the people in the chat talking about John Galt and Atlas Shrugts. If anybody has not read Atlas Shrugged who's tuning in, definitely go do it.

It's the best Bitcoin book. It's long. But you know, read it, listen to it on audiobook, not the abridged version. Don't watch the movies, you know, do the proof of work. And yeah, because that's it. That book perfectly describes the situation that we're in. I don't know if you guys have read it. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a dozy for sure. And it's a slog to get through. Like, it's, there is, it's perfect. Proof of work is exactly what you need to make sure that you get through that. But, yeah, you got to get through the romance, right? And like the, the descriptions of the body physique and the hands running and different. I like, I enjoyed it.

I thought it was, I thought it was really good. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that, too. There's definitely a heavy love story weaved in there. But yeah, it's an amazing book. It's like Thomas saying, perfectly described like bureaucracy, I think, in general. Absolutely. Well, gentlemen, I think the time is right to do our next and final rotation. What I'll say to people in the chat, hey, we're going to be giving away some more sats in a moment when we come back.

Also, make sure that you're sticking around because at the very end, we're going to allot some time for audience questions. So start queuing those up in your head. It could be anything that we spoke about today. Or maybe you just have like a general question about, you know, your Bitcoin setup or about something about Bitcoin media for shooter or something perhaps about multisig, which we may chat about in a little bit here too. So we encourage your questions. We're going to do that again at the very end of the show. we're going to give a quick shout out to sponsors of the show, our remaining sponsors. And when we come back, we'll give away some sats and dive in.

If you can, please do smash that like button while you're there. Let's get it up to 50. We're at 41. And across all platforms, we've had almost, we're just on the cusp of 2,700 people over the course of the episode across YouTube, X, and Rumble and Noster. So we'll be back in just one minute. Debify is the best and easiest way to borrow against your Bitcoin in a non-custodial way. Funds are held in a multi-sig escrow where you hold a key, and the platform allows for excellent hardware like the cold card Mark 4 and the Q.

You have access to flexible conditions, the best rates, and institutional grade liquidity. If you're looking to make use of your capital, don't sell your Bitcoin, borrow against it. You can head over to debify.com. to check them out or simply scan the QR code on the screen. Speed wallet is the easiest to set up and use Bitcoin wallet out there. When you sign up, you can, of course, buy Bitcoin within the app. You can send and receive Bitcoin transactions via the Lightning Network, and you can also send, receive, hold, and swap between stablecoins, aka EUSDT,

via the Lightning Network. They baked in a ton of other great features as well where you're able to earn Bitcoin. This can include referring your friends, shopping your favorite gift cards, or playing fun games via the Speed Arcade. I encourage you to sign up today. There's a QR code on the screen to do so, or you can hit the link in these show notes down below. And when you do, you will earn 5,000 sats as you create your first. All right, we are back in. We're going to give away some stats really quick before we hit our final topic here.

We're back on Bitcoin Well here. Again, get out your lightning wallets and get your cameras in said lightning wallets ready. Whoever scans first is going to snag these sets. I'll hit redeem. We'll drop a coin into the well. Congrats to whoever grabs them. We've got another 210 sats up for grabs. Let us know if you snip them from everyone else in the chat.

We love to hear it or in the comments if you're watching this elsewhere. The other thing that I'll mention here is somebody mentioned a great book in the chat here. Mike S. says, The Mandibles shows what can happen to families and the countries. The Mandibles is a great fiction book that is perhaps a little too close to real life. It tells the story of a slightly futuristic, not too far into the future family as America defaults on its debt and the rest of the world is picking up the pieces, but America is thrust into a little bit of a hellhole as confidence in the U.S. dollar is lost, and they need to figure out how to navigate that situation. It's a little bit dreary. It's also shocking to read

some of the situations, but all in all, a great book. The author was interviewed by Matt O'Dell, and I quite like her. She's not really fully on the Bitcoin train, and there's a passing mention of Bitcoin in the book, but solid, solid read. Highly recommend. But with that, of course, everybody, we're at 45 likes, by the way,

five away from that 50 threshold. So let's hit it. But Tom, I'm going to toss it to you and cue you up with the same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? Well, Ben, I am bullish because of, stronger Bitcoin security. A lot of times when people think of Bitcoin security, their mind immediately goes to protecting

their Bitcoin from theft. They want to get their Bitcoin locked up so that other people can't steal it from them. But there is another element that people need to protect their Bitcoin from beyond theft, which is loss as well. And I think that actually, actually it might be more common. Not sure exactly what the stats are on that, but things like these natural disasters, they are a sober reminder of, if you have a single point of failure

with your Bitcoin custody, that it's hard to sleep well at night in that scenario. And that really is the case for a lot of people who have started buying Bitcoin moving it to self-custody. People have usually started with single-sig wallets. And so there's one key that's protecting their Bitcoin. And you know, you can do things to try to mitigate loss or theft.

Popular strategies include like making a duplicate copy of your key and putting it somewhere else so that, you know, if one place is compromised or destroyed in a natural disaster, then you know you can go get the copy of your key somewhere else. But when you do that, you're actually increasing your vulnerability to theft, because if either one of your two copies of your keys are accessed by a thief, potentially, you know, you're in trouble at that point. And then kind of the reverse is also true. You can try to protect against thefts by introducing a pass phrase or coding your

encoding your seed phrase in some manner. But then it's easier to lose your Bitcoin because you've got multiple pieces. Either one of them are lost, then your Bitcoin is not accessible anymore. And so what I'm really getting at here is multi-sig. That's really what I do all day with Unchained, Unchained is a financial service company for Bitcoiners in the United States. We're built on multi-sig. That's really our focus. multi-sig is what allows people to remove all single points of failure and really address both

theft and loss. I'm sure a lot of people tuning in are familiar with multi-sig, but just very briefly, you can have, you know, like three separate keys that are all unique and any two of them can access your Bitcoin. And by having a threshold like that, that means that if any one key is is stolen or lost, then you can still take steps to recover with your other geographically separated keys. I think, you know, really the point of why I'm particularly bullish on this subject is that when I started out in Changed three years ago, things were a little bit harder to navigate. If you were interested in multi-sig, it was kind of a technical endeavor to start

trying it out. It was a bit daunting, a bit overwhelming for a lot of folks. And I think it was kind of seen as like multi-sig is for kind of technical, nerdy people that, you know, are engineers or something. They can do multi-sig, but me, just a regular person, I should be doing just a typical single-sig wallet. And I really think that narrative is changing. I think the tools that we have, the design of those tools and just how easy they are to use. Just in this last three years, I've seen people kind of onboarding to multi-sig that were like, wow, this is kind of complicated, but I'm glad, you know, there are people out there to help. Now it's more like, wow, that was easier than I thought it would be to actually set up a multi-sig.

And so I think it's actually moving into sort of the golden standard of how to hold Bitcoin safely. And I just think that's great because, you know, you don't have to worry anymore about your seed phrase or a hardware wallet or whatever kind of being destroyed by natural disaster because you've got backup, you know, different keys in other locations. I am a huge multi-sig fan, I will say. Again, the key thing here to recognize is that you can, of course, have mechanisms to protect yourself when you're single sick. You can have decoy wallets and trick pins and pass phrases and all of that. And that's great if somebody stumbles across your seed, phrase. Those things can be helpful in those situations. What it doesn't protect against is physical coercion. In those instances, if you're threatened in the right way, you're very likely to just

give up access to your funds, you know, based on the perceived threat. And with something like a multi-sig, you are unable to comply. So the person can say whatever they they want. You literally just do not have access. You might have one key present, but that doesn't give the person the threshold of keys in order to be able to actually have scone with the funds. And if you do it properly, if they want to try and get all of the funds, then, you know, get in the car because we're going on a road trip. And a lot of thieves, they're going to, they want a quick smash and grab. I want the money. I want out. I don't want to risk getting caught. It's like a quick kind of thing.

And so in those instances, it's kind of like, well, sorry, man. Like, this is what I have here. This is a multi-sig. Here's a key, but like, I mean, I got my hot wallet. Like, you know, grab the TV. I don't know what to tell you, man. Like, I don't have access to it. And like that alone, you know, like there's nothing else.

There's nothing else for them to take, which is huge. Shoot, I'm curious. If you've done any experimenting in and around the realm of multi-sig, how you look at security and the different options out there, what are your general thoughts here? Yeah, multisic is something I have to practice a bit with. You know, I think when I looked at it originally, like Tom was saying, it was probably a little more complex or, you know, there was more worry about you have to keep more information. And so if you lose it, you know, like one piece, then like you kind of can't access it. But I agree with Tom. I mean, everything's getting better in Bitcoin.

And I think more people that come in, you know, more users, but also more engineers and more programmers and more developers. Like, we're just going to keep getting better and better. Yeah, I'm still a single sig guy, you know, with, you know, copies of it, you know, distributed a bit. The seed plates, I mean, like the fire is making really, you know, makes you think about things. because, you know, if you have a seed plate and a fire and your house burns down, you know, firefighters are going out there, right? I mean, if that seed plate is just on the floor somewhere, if firefighters in the future start to realize that, hey, this could be, you know, something that's there. Maybe a seed plate is not a great idea because now I got a single SIG on a seed plate that might be a compromise. I got to go get the other one and move it.

But no, multi-sig is something that I have to practice more with. And I'm sure, like Tom is saying, I'm sure since it's, easier and now it's going to be something that I can approach more easily, you know, and I think as time goes on, people will have different setups, you know, and maybe you'll have a single sig with a smaller stash, like in an emergency stash where it's like, okay, I might need to get this right away and I don't want to have to go to multiple different places if I need to, like, access these funds here. But like the deep, cold storage stuff that's like, I know I'm not going to touch this no matter what in four years, five years, ten years.

Yeah, makes sense to have a multi-sig. So it's something I need to get more familiar with. And I'm familiar with Unchained. These guys are so nice, man. I think I've crashed three of their parties. In L.A., I think like a Pacific Bitcoin the year before that. And then this recent year in Santa Monica, they had a party. And I just walked in.

And I was like, yeah, I think I'm on the list. I think I'm on the list. Like, oh, what's your name? I don't see here. But you know what? It's probably our mistake. Why don't you just come on in? So anyway, that's a tip for everybody out there.

If there's an unchanged party, just go and say you're on the list because they're so nice. They'll just let you in, man. You're going to be on a different type of list next time, apparently. No, yeah, but no, they've always been super cool. I met Drew also, Drew Vanzel, a really cool guy, great mind. A lot of really cool guys at Unchained. So, yeah, definitely I'm going to look into it a bit more and definitely explore some multi-sick stuff. Yeah, yeah.

I, again, my favorite thing about this as you're navigating multisig, again, it can, it's gotten so much easier to set up. But people are always like, well, there's lots of different things to take care of. Like, I'm worried about that aspect. But that's kind of the point, the point being that, like, especially in an assisted multi-sig, you got on chain sitting there. And they're, you know, they're managing one key. They can't rug you because they've just got one key. And you've basically, you've got four things. You've got two devices and then you've got a backup of each device.

And you just kind of separate those things. Technically speaking, you can safely keep the device with the same seed phrase backup together if it's metal because it's, you know, a fire happens. It's still there. And if somebody stumbles across that seed phrase, they've got one key. They don't have full access. But in the grand scheme of things, you basically have four things. you can lose 75% of the shit you're supposed to take care of

and you can still go to UnChain to be like, yo, I messed up. Can you guys help me? And the answer is yes. And so that's a pretty powerful thing to be like, I can massively screw up and still be okay. And furthermore, you can have it set up where you can view your balance

without having to rely on the Unchained website. And if Unchain went Tits up, you can still access your phone. funds as long as you got your two keys in some form. So, like, you can really hedge against every scenario and the likelihood that unchained disappears and you lose the entirety of a key and its backup and you don't have anything else at the same time is very, very unlikely. So it's just, it allows you to screw up a lot, is what I'm getting at.

Yeah. Yeah, everything that is. you said there is spot on. I would clarify one thing is that if, if unchanged, the website was not accessible, yeah, you'd need both of your keys. There's also a backup file. So all multi-sig does have like you need this backup information about how your multi-sig was put together. It's called like a wallet configuration. But yeah, we make that easy to, you know, get that and know what to do with it. I also want to go back to the point that you had brought up earlier about like you literally cannot, you know, spend your Bitcoin if you're, you know, someone's trying

to get it from you in person or something as opposed to a single SIG. That's actually a point that I think a lot of people don't know about multi-sig is that when it comes time to actually withdraw from your multi-sig wallet, you don't need to bring the keys together at the same time in place. So a lot of people think that like, you know, if it's a two out of three, I need to go get two keys and bring them together. That would actually kind of be a vulnerable situation because you've got the access to the Bitcoin in your hands there to sign any transaction and broadcast it. And that, by the way, that's kind of the Shamir secret sharing model, which can also do two of threes, but it has that disadvantage because that's how that actually works. But with multi-sig, you can

create a transaction, sign it with one key in one place, and then, you know, a week later in a totally different place you sign with your other key. And so you never have to co-locate them. Even when you're setting it up originally, you could set up one key in one place and then go set the other key elsewhere. So yeah, it's a multi-six is super powerful and anyone who wants to learn more about it, yeah, I would be happy to help. So it unchained and tons of other people out there. There's a lot of great educational content on this. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I recommend that even if you don't feel fully ready to dive into the realm of multisic, maybe you've just started learning about cold storage in general. You got yourself a device. It's not a

a bad idea just once you're comfortable with that to just start the learning process. Just become familiar. Like I'm not saying you never want to be rash with your decisions with your Bitcoin, right? Like you don't want to just suddenly do a bunch of stuff because you're panicking because the price went up and it's more than it used to be. But if you can be slow and methodical and intentional with your learning, you can start the learning process now and become more familiar over time so that as you're like, oh, Bitcoin's going up, maybe I'm going to consider starting to move portions of my Bitcoin into

something more secure. And you can kind of weigh risk in terms of, you know, what are you securing it against? Is it against somebody finding your C phrase or threatening you? Then multi-sig may apply. Is it against, you know, the government and you got to get the hell out of Dodge and you're like, you know, hiding on a boat somewhere to get out of the country? country and reacts as your sack. Maybe in that instance, a single sig with a portion of what you wait that probability of that threat coming is so you have buckets of risk and maybe you have

your stack split accordingly. But again, everybody's going to have a different approach, but it's definitely worth, you can never be overeducated on this stuff is what I'm getting at. So gentlemen, with that, what I'd like to do is I'd like to turn to the audience in a moment and I would like to ask them questions or get their questions of you guys. Or, I mean, maybe for myself, too, if you got a question as well. But audience, I want you to queue up your questions and you can start dropping them in the chat right now. In the meantime, let's give away some sats as we do that. And then we'll check the chat for what kind of fun questions we got. I'll pick the best once and we'll all take a stab at them. But again, one last time, visit to Bitcoin Well,

get those lightning wallets out and ready. So I'm going to drop a coin in the well, first one to scan the QR code that pops up on the screen. We'll snipe the sats from everybody else. Yeah, maybe it'll be Evelyn Mitchell this time. She's been in the chat there trying to get it going. But every time I watch, you know, I can never get it in time either. feel like it's always the participants of the show just snagging it. I think one guy did do it, right? One of the guests did do it one time. Yeah, you know, one time a guest did get it. Oh, man. Yeah, Evelyn, come on, Evelyn. Yeah. Yeah, Evelyn, we hope that it's you. And you know what? Because we did surpass our goal of 50 likes, we're sitting at 55 now. So I want to give

another shout up for everybody that helped make that happen. So hell, let's do it one more time. We're going to do one more toss in the well. We'll give you guys another crack at it. So off it goes, down into the well. And maybe it'll be Evelyn this time. I would love to see that. There's another two to ten for you guys. But there you go. I'll leave that on the screen for a moment. The other thing I'm going to mention to you guys, that's not the only way to be stacking and earning sats through this bull run as we get into it. I'm also a part of a company, and that's all the time you get, by the way, called Bitcoin Mentor.

And so what we are, I became inundated with doing one-on-ones, helping people set up their Bitcoin security. And I just didn't have any more time. Time is the only thing more scarce than Bitcoin. And unfortunately, I just couldn't keep up with it. But fortunately, I was able to assemble an incredible team of educators, now known as Bitcoin Mentor.com. So they can be visited at Bitcoin Mentor.i.

So if you feel stuck in your Bitcoin journey and you need some help, head over there. But if you also would like to earn some sats over the coming Bull Run, you can become an affiliate. So there's a QR code up on the screen there. If you scan that, it'll take you to a place where you can set up your own personal link. You can put that in your social media profiles wherever you like, or you can send it to people whenever they ask you about getting set up on Bitcoin. And every time a person books a session through your link, you earn $21 worth of Bitcoin to be paid out at the end of the month.

And that's not just for somebody's first session. It's for every session they book. So somebody books 10 times, you get 210 bucks. So highly recommend, give that a scan, get yourself a link, put it in your social profiles, share it whenever necessary. And you can stack some sats while new Bikorner's stack skills. But with that, let's take a little peek at the chat here. I'll bring it up. Maybe I'll just, I'll just stick it off to the side here. It should populate here. I'm going to do some scrolling. I like Nathan's cheering on Evelyn. Did she get it? I don't know. I don't know. Okay. So I'm scrolling up

to find, find some questions here. But if you did have questions for the audience and you already posted them above, do me a favor and repost them in the chat so that they're easier to find. But there were some good ones that I saw before. So I'm just scrolling really quick to find that last one. There was a good one from Scotty. Okay, there we go. From Scotty V. I'm going to put that down below. Do you need a different hardware wallet? But for every key, for a multi-sig wallet, example, for two multi-sig wallets, would you need six different hardware devices? So I think what he's referring to is can one device be a part of multiple different multisig setups?

I know there's some nuance here, but I'm going to toss this question to Tom. And I know there's going to be some scenarios that you might want to cover. But general question, if I have, say, even like a single-sig wallet, can that be a single-sig wallet and part of a multi-sig? Or does that not work? Yes, this is a great question. And I get it a lot because it's not intuitive. I think it has something to do with the term hardware wallet is not the best term. Really what you've got with that device is you've got a key, right?

It's holding a key. It's managing the key. You perhaps used it to generate the key. But once you have a key, you can use that key for any number of Bitcoin wallets, whether they're single-sig or multi-sig. So you could have a key that is used for two different single-sig wallets, and you could go ahead and include it in a multi-sig wallet, and then a year later you could include it in yet another multi-sig wallet.

I kind of like to use an analogy of like, it's sort of like you have a bunch of these different treasure chests that are holding Bitcoin and they're all separate, but you've got, you know, similar keys that can, or, you know, got the same key that can fit into the locks on all of these different treasure chests. So that, and that's important because that really helps minimize how much you got to keep track of if you want to, you know, be using, more than one wallet like that. Yeah, yeah. It's a unique thing.

Again, people don't realize like, oh, yeah, you can have one hardware device that has multiple purposes. What I would say, though, is if you're using the same three devices, you're not going to create two entirely separate multisig vaults in per se. Like, they can be, if you create multiple accounts, they can be reached. from the same three keys always. So it's not like they're somehow separate really. Like you can have account systems where it's like,

oh, this account is for this and that. But it's not a true like separation between them in the security sense. I guess it does that make sense to you, Tom? Yeah, so if you have like three master private keys, you know, three seed phrases, what you would do, to create a multi-sig wallet is from each of them, you would produce an ex-pub. That's an extended public key. That's the main ingredient of a wallet.

You throw those three ex-pubs together, you give the rules of two of three, and you're done. You've got a multi-sig wallet. Now you can use each of those seed phrases to produce another unique ex-pub. And so you can actually use the same three seed seed phrases to produce two completely separate wallets. They're separate in the sense that all their addresses are different and stuff like that. So the balance would be different when you're looking at it. But it would be the same security model. It would be the same keys.

And so, you know, in that sense, it's, you've kind of created the same thing. It would really just be for organization, not for security that you would do something like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we have technically have one device, right? I mean, maybe it's not ideal. But I mean, a multi-sig from what I understand is you're just signing a transaction that it requires multiple seed phrases or multiple keys, right? So technically like I could put one seed phrase on a device, sign it, restore it, put the

other seed phrase on the device, sign it, and then I can actually broadcast it, right? I mean, so yeah. But I mean, obviously that's not ideal, I guess. I think a lot of people want to do multi-sig because they also want to diversify the hardware that they're using, right? Like in the case that treasors has some type of bug in it or something where every treasurer device or your treasure device, you know, someone knows what the seed phrase is. So then you got a treasurer and you got a jade. And then so they would both have to be compromised or something like that.

But from what I understand, obviously, like you're saying, a signing device is just that. It just, you can put any key in there and it'll sign the transaction. And so if the transaction needs multiple signatures, technically you could use the same device and put the key, sign, put the next key, sign, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that's why I kind of like the term signing device. Yeah, you could have three seed phrases and just like load them in one at a time and wipe the device in between. I think that approach is more suitable to people that have been around Bitcoin for a while. like you guys and like me because it does scare people a lot to have to wipe their device.

And so it's not a comfortable experience for a lot of people taking that route. They'd rather just their key remain in the device. But it is definitely possible. And once people understand that, it's also safe to do that. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to bring up a couple other quick ones. I got a quick one just from Nathan for Shooter. Shooter, what is the next project for you?

Oh, man, we'll see. So this project I just finished No More Inflation was a two-year project. I traveled to like eight or nine different countries, sharing stories of double-digit inflation, triple-digit inflation, quadruple-digit inflation. You know, how that affects war and health and foreign aid and COVID and then Bitcoin, how Hawaii can't be printed and mining. and just all kinds of stuff. So a project like that is not only a sacrifice of time. Two years is a lot of time. But it also, you know, it's quite financially intensive too.

So we'll see. I'm still, you know, there's still time for people to watch no more inflation. You know, I think with the holidays and the Bitcoin price, most people haven't watched it yet. So we'll see how that goes. But yeah, maybe there'll be an opportunity, you know, to do another big one like that. But otherwise, you know, maybe I'll do a couple of small ones every year, you know, where I'll find interesting stories.

Like, you know, I'm here in L.A., right? And so is Don Bay. Don Bay is a firefighter, Bitcoiner. I wonder what his story has been like, you know, over the last few days. And same thing with the unchained. I wonder if there's like any customer stories of, you know, people that, you know, have benefited from having services with unchained, you know, through this fire in L.A. So I think that's probably what my next project's going to be like. It's going to be more focused. Another short film. I mean, how I started this No More Inflation film was doing a 10-minute film about El Salvador, which Naibu-Kelle reposted.

So, yeah, we'll see, man. I'm not sure at all. I'm still kind of like in rehab after this two years of making no more inflation. So, yeah, we'll just let the universe tell me. And, yeah, we'll see, man. Oh, yeah. I've got one here real quick that I'll just touch on quickly. What's the next upcoming video that I've got in the works?

What are what am I working on these days? Well, you might hear a little bit of like airflow behind me and that's because I literally right before doing this video I was setting up and filming the initial start of a future bit, which is just a home miner, a plug and play device. You plug it into the wall. You plug it into your router. And then you access it from any computer on your home. home network and you are basically solo mining.

So you've got like a little forever lottery ticket on your on your shelf or conversely, it, you know, you can actually have it mine and send to a lightning wall or whatever. So I'm covering that right now. There's a lot of interest in in home mining and and all of these, this explosion of home accessible devices. So that's the next project for me. And then I've got plenty more planned in the coming weeks. The list goes on and on and on many things.

I did just cover the Bitkey as well, which was a super interesting one. It is a nice device. I do like it. So check out that and weigh your preferences. I'm looking for the Jade Plus that you're going to do. You know, that virtual Oracle thing seems very interesting to me. Yeah. Anyways, yeah.

I've got it sitting right here as well. That's on the docket coming up pretty quick as well. So there's one other one here as well that I wanted to touch on. And maybe this might pertain to unchained as well, because I know you guys did something in this realm before. Mike was wondering in and around like avoiding capital gains, but being able to utilize his Bitcoin and in the short term. I mean, no matter what, like if you bought Bitcoin at a dollar and it's $100,000 and then you actually. spend the Bitcoin, you've experienced a game. However, you can, there are mechanisms in which you can get loans against your Bitcoin. So like if it's, you know, you're running a business or

sorry, you're bootstrapping a business and you want to get a loan. That's a possibility. Now, Tom, you guys did, I know things have changed a little bit. Do you guys still do loans? Like, How's that working? So Unchains focused on kind of business loans that are of like a higher value. That may change at some point. But yeah, so if you're in the United States with a business and you want a Bitcoin-backed loan, check us out. Yeah, yeah. And if you're doing smaller amounts, if you're like I'm doing a small project and you're

trying to, you just don't want to sell your Bitcoin, you don't think it's an opportune time, you can do loans against your Bitcoin. I would just be cautious about how you go about that. If it's being re-hypothicated, a.k.a. if you're putting your Bitcoin with somebody and then they're going and loaning it out to somebody else, that's no bueno. Shit hit the fan last.

A lot of people learned about shit hitting the fan with that last cycle. So, you know, be cautious there. One option is Debify. So it ends up actually sitting in a multis-sigating. when you deposit it, you can audit it. You have one of the keys. DeBify has another key. And then there's an impartial third party.

So if there's some sort of a dispute where you're like, I paid back my loan, I deserve my coins back. And DeBify is saying no, then the impartial third party gets to be like, okay, well, let's see on either side of that. And then we'll make the call. So yeah, that's basically how that works. So there's options out there. Just be careful about rehypification.

or your money being reloaned to others. That's not ideal. I'm going to take one other thing here. Now that the Chad is going, I lost it. I'm finding it really quick. Okay, so I'm going to throw up this one really quick from Chad. And this is, I mean, this could be taken many, many different ways. But I'll let you both kind of chime in here.

Chad said, I don't trust anyone. how can I safely store my seed on single or multi-sig? So I'm assuming he's referring to the backup seed phrase. And I'd say there's a different answer maybe for single versus multi-sig because multi-sig you have some fault tolerance there. But Tom will start with you. Yeah. So I think when you first create a Bitcoin key, you need a method of doing that that's safe.

And the most popular way to do that is with some sort of device, such as a hardware wallet. If you could generate your own entropy and then try to hand calculate some hashing to do it on your own, I suppose. But almost everyone does use some sort of software at the core to generate a key. You don't have to keep that key stored on a device, right? You could just have a raw seed phrase. But ultimately, a lot of these devices, right, these hardware wallets that can generate and store keys, they are open source, right? So that means that if you don't trust the device, you can look at the firmware. It's running.

You can control the firmware in a lot of cases, and you can review the code yourself. So, yeah. Shooter, how about you? Do you have any quick tips on like somebody who's a little paranoid wants to make sure they're safe? Right. So I think Chad is specifically like talking about where to put the words or, you know, like he, you know, he's got, yeah, yeah, there we go.

How to store a seat plate. I think this is kind of a cop-out, but I think the answer is different for everybody. Whenever like I have friends that ask me, like how do you keep it safe? I tell them that is something that you need to decide, something that you need to think about, and you need to figure out where you think the safest place is to put it. Yeah, it's kind of like the ultimate game, you know. But I think ultimately it's up to everybody to figure out where they're going to put their seed phrase. They're going to friggin stuff it into a tree, you know, or they're going to put it under the ground,

or they're going to put it in a safe, or they're going to, you know, whatever it is. is it's kind of like everybody everybody has to decide that for themselves you know and you have to put yourself in the position of somebody else right like looking for your seed phrase and then you know outsmart yourself so yeah I think the answer is different for for everybody else but I'm with chat I don't you know I don't I don't obviously Bitcoin is not is about not trusting anybody so you know I never have a seed plate like in a in a security deposit box or something something like that, you know. But yeah, I think that is the decision that everybody has to make for themselves.

Part of the reason why I don't like to give advice to people is because I also don't want to tell them what I'm doing with mine, right? So it's kind of like one of those things with Bitcoin where you're on your own. You, you know, you have to decide what's what's best for you. Yeah. I'll tag in there. And the answer is going to be a little bit different, whether it's a single sig or a multi-sig. but in terms of just general best practices when it comes, you've already got your stuff in metal for your backups, okay? When it comes to lack of trust for hardware or software, lean open source so that the code can be audited and there's eyeballs on it, making sure that it's doing what it says it's doing.

You may also want to lean towards devices that don't have, you know, if you don't want to be roped into a singular app, then you can use devices that don't even have a dedicated app or don't rely on a dedicated app to start the setup process and allow you to choose the software after the fact. Beyond that, let's say single-sig, in terms of where you store it, again, you want it away from prying eyes. You want it somewhere maybe separated from the actual device that the backup is for because the device itself at least has. as a security mechanism to access it, it has a pin or something. The other thing about the seed phrase is,

if you don't have a pass phrase on it, that naked seed phrase is immediate access to your funds. So if you're really, really worried about that, add a pass phrase, but make sure it's something that you can easily remember and perhaps something that you've written down and stored somewhere just for a safekeeping, but something that you will Absolutely remember no ifs, ands, or buts.

You don't want to be so secure that you lock yourself out of your Bitcoin. So I'll say that about it. You can also, if it's single-sig, leave a decoy amount on the main seed phrase. So you can maybe leave 500 or 1,000 bucks sitting on the main seed. And then if somebody comes in, oh, well, I mean, this is all that's on it. There's the seed. Like, check it yourself. That's it.

there's no indication that there is a passphrase when you add one. So that's another thing. When it comes to multi-sig, I would steer clear of pass phrases. It's unnecessary because your seeds are geographically dispersed anyways, and you're adding complexity, which is more likely to result in you not being able to access the funds yourself. So keep it simple. And just with those, if somebody stumbles across a seed, they've got, they've got, they've got like one

they've got one key and if you don't necessarily have the if you don't necessarily have the the multi-sig quorum there in present there may not even be an

indication that it's part of a multi-sig it may just look like a single key and you can put you can put a decoy amount on that as well so yeah I mean there's there's a lot of ways to approach it

the wear of where you place it can can very much very much depend on on your situation there but yeah and and i just wanted to point out to the earlier question in regards to um in regards to projects that shooter is going i know i'm kind of hopping around here but shooter you have this can you give a quick explanation of that yeah so i'll show you this real quick this is a buddy of mine's brand without rulers. He made this sweater for me. I don't think he's selling it, but for the films. Like you can see, it says like no more inflation on it and stuff like that. He's got like a bunch of cool stuff on the back here. But anyway, he's on Twitter. He's at Gen X and he's just got like super cool design. So anybody who's into like, you know, Bitcoin

clothing, lots of really cool stuff there. So I just wanted to give him a shout out because he just sent this to me because he was inspired by the film. It's got like my little avatar right there. It's pretty sweet, man. So it's like super, super cool stuff. So I just wanted to give him a shout out. If anybody's interested in that, you go to the website without hyphen rulers.com. There's a bunch of cool stuff there. So thanks for putting that up, Ben. I appreciate it, buddy. Yeah, no worries, no worries. Everybody in the chat, this has been awesome. We're going to do a quick roundout. Thank you guys so much for being here. This is a perfect time to put a bow on it. Tom, you're awesome. Shooter, you were awesome. Sue was awesome. Make sure you follow them.

Their links are down below. Hit up Unchained.com. Hit up No More Inflation.com and hit up hotate.com. But until next time, we'll see you guys later. This has been your daily session. Thank you so much, gents. Thanks, Ben. Cheers.

Peace.