BTC Sessions - Did The US & Middle East JUST Make A $2T Bitcoin Deal Behind Closed Doors? George Bodine, Keys

Episode Date: March 29, 2025

Did the US and Middle East just make a $2T Bitcoin deal behind closed doors? If true, this secret move could shake up the global financial system forever.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/Jethroe111https://x.com/Greencandleithttps://x.com/Matyas44CookFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCp#btc #bitcoin #crypto

What is going on, everyone? I hope you are having an absolutely lovely, fantastic Friday. We have got so much to chat about today. It is absolutely a wonderful day to be bullish. So with that, it appears like the U.S. isn't the only large nation state that is again eyeing up Bitcoin. This week, the UAE and Saudi Arabia have officially agreed to invest $2 trillion into America. The brother of the UAE president personally met and sat down with cryptocurrency. Zard David Sacks as well as President Donald Trump, seemingly trying to reline relationships between the Middle East and the U.S. following, of course, the recent breakdowns in the Petro-Dolar agreement. When we look to all the big players on that global chessboard kind of repositioning,

it becomes clear that this week very well may have been one of the most bullish in a long time. So we decided to discuss this and more with someone who I personally think is one of the most underrated bulls in Bitcoin. We've got Mr. George Bodine. We've also got Brandon Keys from Green Candle Investment, as well as Mateas Koucher, co-founder of BTC Prague. And with that, I am Nathan with the BTC sessions, and this is your daily session. All right, all right. Let's get everybody in the room hanging out.

We've got George, Mateus, and Brandon. Let me get a little reorganized and shifted here for fellas. And just keep things off, you know, before we get into all the reasons that you guys are bullish, and I'm sure there was a ton of fantastic ones there. George, I kind of want to throw to you if you had heard about the UAE meeting with David Sacks and with Donald Trump. And if you had any thoughts on the matter. Yeah, you bet. Let me get my beer here because I told people that I was going to share a beer with him.

So here's a toast to you. Absolutely. Let's start this thing going. Cheers, gentlemen. You know, Tanun Nayan, if you, sheik, Danun Nayan. That's a big deal. He's coming over here. I don't know if you know who that guy.

is, but not only is he the national security advisor for that country, but he's also the president of the brother. And probably even more importantly, he is the head of the fourth largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. So this is a big deal, him coming over here. He has a large footprint, both in the Middle East, but also in his country's development of AI and digital assets. So, You know, they've pledged a tremendous amount of money to us through that meeting that he had with Donald Trump, $1.4 trillion. Yep. And if you look at that and then you look at what followed up there with Saudi Arabia, you know, you're looking at a couple trillion dollars that they've pledged to invest in our country. And additionally, as I said before, if you're following the UAE and there have been rumors even Rajat Soni, the CFA that I follow, this was probably about three months ago.

there's a lot of rumors about them accumulating Bitcoin. It hasn't been confirmed, but I'm not a bit surprised they're stacking right now. They ended up, you know, if you look back in November, that first weekend in November, it might have been the second one. There was a very unusual amount of buying activity at that point. It was like someone who was agnostic to price. It wasn't through dark pools or accelerators, no alga's involved. It was just somebody smashing the buy button and buying Bitcoin. And it was pushing the price around. And it was like, I don't know, you know, whoever was doing, it really didn't give a shit.

So I don't, I'm not, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they're stacking right now. And I, I would imagine that some of that meeting, you and I will never be privy to it probably, but some of that meeting probably discussed coordination with this upcoming strategic Bitcoin Reserve. And maybe even our own sovereign wealth fund. So I'm, I'm really excited about it. I will say that. Oh, that's fantastic, Georgia. I agree. I'm curious, Mateous, if you have any quick thoughts on the matter at all too.

Well, not really because this is the first time I hear about this. I was too busy to read the news today about just my quick idea is like why the price is not reacting to this. Why the price is dumping, right? So I'm buying. I'm just like stacking sets. every now and then to make sure that I have a chance against these giants. Because when they start buying properly, I think that the price will look differently. Agreed. Yeah, you're that agnostic buyer that just keeps stacking. Me too, right? Don't look at a price. Just buy. I got spare cash. I'm just going to buy.

Brandon, quickly, on that particular topic, did you have any thoughts or anything that you want to add? Of course, man. I'm a talk about it. I've got an opinion on everything these days. But as George is saying, man, $1.4 trillion that they're looking to invest into the United States. And Saudi on top of that, $600 billion. And Trump came out and said he's going to ask him to round it up to $1 trillion. So $600 billion to $1.000. He's like, ah, just round it up, man. It's rounding air guys.

Don't worry about it. Nothing for you. Exactly. What's another $400 billion that they're looking to throw in the United States? But what is the unique aspect of all of this is that they've met with David Sachs and then they meet with President Trump. Why are they doing that? Saudi Arabia and the UAE have two of the largest sovereign wealth funds on the planet. And they're very energy dense. So we already have Donald Trump coming in and filing trademarks. Trump media has filed trademarks on America first. And what are those top things that he's filing those trademarks for? They're energy and Bitcoin ETFs. Saudi Arabia, huge in the energy sector.

Makes you think. And their sovereign wealth fund is one of the, the most invested into the energy markets. So I'm just connected a few dots here, folks, but it looks like the Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth and potentially could be buying Bitcoin originally. And at the very least, they're looking at the United States investing into Bitcoin and they're saying, hey, we want to be a part of this. We want to get on board. And that's why I'm extremely bullish seeing this going forward. I can't this price can't be reacting as Michaelis is saying here earlier. I mean, we're sitting here at 84. I mean, I'm looking at my chops, sweating at the bit trying to get as much stats as possible these days.

Man, I completely agree. And the other thing that I noticed this week as well, too, is that it was the Hong Kong ETF issuer let slip that it looks like China is considering unbanneding Bitcoin and reconsidering their position on it as well, too. And it really goes to show that I think that there may have been a bit of a starting gun with the strategic Bitcoin Reserve. and that everyone around the world is having to reconsider like, hey, maybe we got to give this another look, another chance. We got to reevaluate what we previously thought to be true. But with that, I want to get into the first reason why we're here, the first reason why we are

bullish. And Brandon, I'll give you the same question that everyone always gets. Tell me, my friend, why are you bullish? Well, I mean, outside of these nation state fomo that we're seeing here, you're lining up China. We're lining up Saudi Arabia. What's next on the list? It's corporate FOMO, folks. What do we just happen this week?

We had GameStop, who is 10 times the size of micro strategy when they started buying Bitcoin, has 10 times the amount of free cash flow that Micro Strategy had when they started Bitcoin. And on top of that, they announced their first giant buy of Bitcoin, which is six times bigger than Micro Strategy when it will put in the measly 250 million. in there. So what does this mall mean? It means that this FASB ruling and what Michael Saylor has been able to convince seemingly lawmakers like, hey, we're going to put all of these accounting rules and make it easier and make you actually be able to report a positive earnings with your Bitcoin holdings. That's going to be a unique aspect that we're going to see this

quarter here after Strategy reports its earnings probably in a couple weeks here. They're going to report that positive earnings on their Bitcoin holdings that they basically been reporting a loss for the past four years. So more of these corporate treasuries are going to be looking at what GameStop's doing, what strategy is doing and saying, hey, we've got a bunch of cash sitting here on the sidelines. Why aren't we doing the same thing? So I think corporate FOMO is just getting started. And I couldn't be more bullish here as we're seeing GameStop start to come in. And then we're going to see some more companies start to come in. I think last year at this time, we had 33 publicly traded companies with Bitcoin on the balance sheet.

And right now we're sitting at 88. And I think that exponential number is going to keep on skyrocketing, especially as they're making it easy and more desirable for us to hold that Bitcoin on the balance sheet. So I can't wait to see what's coming up in 2025. All I know is some more of these big dogs are going to come in and trying to be skyline. scooping up that Bitcoin. That is, I couldn't agree more, right? Like the the playbook is is unarguably working, right? And it's, you can't ignore it at this point in time. When it comes to kind of the corporate adoption side of things, Matej, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on what Brandon said or what your takeaway was. No, no, no. It's it's, I absolutely agree. The year 2025,

it's, it's feeling absolutely differently than the previous years and previous bull markets. that no one can argue that Bitcoin is not here to stay. And it's just weird that the price is so low. I don't want to repeat myself, but like those people who are saying no, no, no, now are coming with serious questions and they are jumping in. So I'm just curious how this will end up and where we can go this bull market. I completely agree, right? Like it definitely feels like it kind of reminds me of it seemed like the corporate adoption narrative was kind of what was getting hyped up back in 2020,

kind of timeline, especially with micro strategy first entering. But it seems like it was just a little bit early, right? It was the kind of first dip the toe in the water, but we might actually be getting some momentum here. And so George, on Brandon's point there about corporate adoption, what's your instincts, man? What do you thinking? Well, let's go right back for a moment, though. Let's talk about something that he brought up because this does need to be addressed. you know, people are not bullish enough.

And as Brandon mentioned, 2025 is going to be a set the dial to 11, cook noodles, and a come-to-jesus moment for a lot of people. This is going to be an incredible year. I'm just telling you right now, and people are not prepared. The reason price is suppressed right now is because you've got all these leaky lettuce-handed short-term holders panties in a wide cry babies out there. And, you know, there are cost bases about 93-5 right now. And so this period that we're at down here represents a lot of pain for these people.

And this happens on every damn cycle that we go through. As you come up into these bull runs and as we went from 58 up to 73, 73 to 93, we went all the way up to 108. Guess what? Long-term holders were selling into that. Those short-term holders were picking those coins up and they've been selling them. And long-term holders have been selling. They sold about a million coins into this rise up to where we were.

And guess what? That's a lot of cell pressure. So the fact that we're holding in this area that we're at is incredible. I'm just telling you there is a strong underlying bid beneath Bitcoin right now. I don't know if it's from these countries, nations, sovereign wealth funds, ETFs. I don't know where it's all coming from. Maybe it is companies starting to step into this space. But I'm just telling you right now, you haven't seen anything yet. And, you know, there's going to be a lot of people setting, you see my t-shirt?

What's that say? I want to thank me. I want to thank me for being me. I want to thank me for having the balls to hang on to my Bitcoin through this whole cycle and the last cycle and every other damn cycle. And nothing's going to get that Bitcoin out of my fist. I hold it like this. And, you know, you people need to get on board to all the my fellow Bitcoiners out there that have been through these cycles or it, Maybe you're new.

And maybe you haven't sold your Bitcoin. Maybe you're a short term holder and you're saying, I really don't care. Well, then that's to you. Cheers, guys. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more there. And it's funny, you know, Brandon, the one thing that really stood out to me, because I was thinking about this earlier, like, I'm actually really pumped about like GME,

about GameStop getting into Bitcoin. But it's not even necessarily for the purchasing power that they're bringing to the table. The one thing that caught my attention is it really feels like this cycle that retail hasn't shown up, right? It hasn't caught their imagination. They got burned maybe in, you know, 2022 there, and they just, they don't want to touch it. They hit the stove. They didn't know what they were doing. They panicked sold.

And it's been painful, right? It's been painful ride. But people love stories, right? They love narratives. And the whole GameStop saga really caught the imagination of a lot of people. And it felt like it was a little bit of like a cultural revolution, like a little bit of a revolt against the system. Even if they didn't quite understand the problems with it or why maybe it was an issue, they wanted to be a part of it, right?

Even if people were buying just a single share just so they could say that they participated in it. And I'm wondering if this will have the same sort of narrative effects. And maybe this is just the next chapter for GameStop and we can capture that imagination, that kind of hope and that inspiration and really get that powerful story that speaks to the every guy who feels screwed. Be like, hey, maybe you should look at the asset that they're buying and why this relates back to that, right?

100%. Yeah. Yeah, and what you and both George said, I think, is a key point here is that, you know, retail hasn't really come in this cycle just yet. And what we're seeing is we're seeing nation states come in and we're seeing big players like they're putting it on the corporate treasury and everything else. And the unique aspect of all of this is these big dogs with all these giant bags, they're not going to be day trading, right? So, I mean, we had the big players come in with Black Rock and all of these traditional financial guys that are going to be playing the derivative market, doing all these other things, which, you know, could potentially be manipulating the price. But the unique aspect of this cycle is that we're seeing these nation states, we're seeing these corporate treasuries. They're not going to be selling Bitcoin.

They're not going to be buying it one day and selling it the next day. They're going to be holding on to these things for the long term, which is going to be. going to set that floor even higher. So what we're seeing is that Bitcoin saw that rise up, saw a few people get off, and it sees a few of these retail sellers have that selling pressure right now. But what I think in the long term is going to be extremely bullish is that these corporate holders, I mean, we got to scoop up our Bitcoin now, folks, or else there might not be much left. Yeah, I couldn't. It's unbelievable to me that I never thought in a million years, that the U.S. government would potentially be front running the U.S. citizens.

Like I thought that that kind of level of adoption would come long after, basically, we've hit that S curve and most people are already involved and interested. Well, guys, with that, that was a wonderful topic, Brandon. I really appreciate it, and I think it is definitely something to be bullish about. We're going to take a quick brief message from our sponsors, quick break for message from the sponsors. When we get back, we're going to be given away a couple sats with the Bitcoin wishing well, or we've taken a drink of our beers, as George is pointing out here as well, too.

and we're going to go to Mateyish's reason for why he's bullish. So stick around. We'll be right back. Bitcoin Well is the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the US. And now with Bitcoin Well Infinite, it's also the best place to be making large buys at their OTC desk of over $50,000. Their white glove service gives you fast transactions, no slippage, and the lowest fees. You can scan the QR code on the screen or simply head to, Bitcoinwell.com slash BTC Sessions to sign up today, and you can share your own personalized referral

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If you scan the QR code, that lightning invoice is going to pop up on the screen. What do we get? Beautiful. 210 sats for anybody looking to snipe those. If you get an error message, it means that somebody already grabbed them. So let's pop back in here. Mr. Mateas, Mr. BTC Prague, my friend. I'm very excited to hear what you maybe have for us today. But tell me, why are you bullish?

Well, a good question. I think that we all have many reasons why to be bullish because it's awesome to be Bitcoiner and I will try to keep away from the price. So I'm bullish mostly because I see people thriving on Bitcoin. And I mean real human growth. People are building their lives around Bitcoin, their careers, relationships. and this is really rooted with the values of Bitcoin. So it's it kind of feels right.

I'm also bullish on my personal level. And like George said, yeah, I'm proud about myself, how I grew during the last five years, building the business through struggling and believing with my brother, Martin, it's a family business. and we finally got to the point when we can say that we have been recognized by the whole world, like a top European, maybe top words Bitcoin conference, and it's because thousands of people are looking for a way how to connect in the real life. Michael Saylor is coming for a third time in a row,

Seifidin Amus and another 200 speakers are coming from over the border. globe to Prague to the Bitcoin capital in Europe and I can say that I'm living my dream because of Bitcoin so I'm very bullish about about that talking to so many great people and every other person who joins this revolution is an asset to something what is global what is under one flag orange flag and that makes me not only bullish but hopeful for the future I'm also bullish because of, I see other people how they grow with us and they've been starting same as me as a PLEP. And now they are working for some Bitcoin companies and they are doing what they love. And, you know, most of the people feel that something is rigged and they are looking for a tool.

how to fight inflation and it's almost impossible. We see that the word is full of world economic forum freaks. It's a bureaucratic clown word and they are just laughing to our face. But I really feel, and that makes me bullish that it's over, they just don't know yet. And this year, 2025 is the year when it's finally feeling like we won, and Bitcoin is here to stay, it doesn't mean that we don't, we should stop fighting. It's, there will be always something to do with Bitcoin. So stay vigilant, but it's going to be, it's going to be different.

And I think that because of BTC Prague and why we are staying so true to the cause, we have really chance to empower a big part of the Bitcoin community and teach them how to stay on the edge of the technology and how to use Bitcoin for your own personal freedom so you can teach it to other generations to your kids. And we together create a much better social economic future, which is just an absolutely new step. in our life and if everything will go, like I think it will. I think that the history books will be speaking about this decade. So it's really bullish and I cannot just like comprehend

from the philosophical point of view, from the technical point of view, how fast the things are unfolding. So that was my bullish rant and it's not about price. Yes, people come for a price, but stay for technology, freedom, and for the things which Bitcoin brings together. Because Bitcoin, for me, is a level up technology. And it doesn't matter where you are now, you cannot imagine where Bitcoin will get you in five years. I completely agree, right? It ends up permeating every aspect of your life and you end up doing just better in your health, your relationships.

Just everything seems to follow that path as soon as you lower your time. preference diving into Bitcoin. George, I'm curious your thoughts on what Mattia shared with us. What's your what's your reaction? What's your instinct there? Well, I'm really, you know, I'm a Bitcoin bull. I mean, and permable. And that's true. I mean, I and it's not just about number go up, but I am a Bitcoin permable. I'm cast in arm with gonads the size of church bells. Because I believe in this technology. I believe that this is an opportunity for us to finally front run these people that have managed a system over the last century that has really made it difficult for just the average Pleb to get ahead.

You can't outrun these people. You can't get in front of that printing press. Bitcoin is the way for you to escape. And those of you that have in this space long enough, you know what I'm talking about. This is your opportunity. That's why we say stay humble, stack sats. Your goal right now is to just stack sats like a smart psychopath. that's what you got to do.

And then you can't let go of those damn things. I mean, you know, when you get your sats, it's got to be precious to you. And I don't trade. I don't do leverage. I don't, I never exposed mark to market. I never have to worry about losing my Bitcoin. I keep it in many different buckets from cold storage to every other thing you can imagine. And again, you know, these jackasses that don't understand the value of what they have and they're trying to trade around it or they're short term holders that are getting washed out of this.

market, you're going to learn the hard way. Everybody gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve. Absolutely. Yeah. Some of us are going to pay a higher price than others, and it's going to be a painful event. There's going to be a lot of crocodile tears, and there are going to be a lot of people in the future that are pissy about this. They're going to look at the four of us sitting here on this screen. There's going to be people that think we had a privilege, almost like a first look, a first take on something that we were early because we were lucky. That's not the case.

Anybody that's been in this space long enough, you know you're not lucky to be here. You've got to, you know, you've got to be tough. You've got to be hard to hang on to your Bitcoin and get to where you can sit back and relax in life. 100%. You got to put in the time, the conviction, you got to study hard, right? If you don't know what you have, I was just talking about this with a few people today. If you don't put in the time to really understand why you're getting into Bitcoin

in the first place, the problems that it's solving, you're going to get completely shaken out. You're going to be one of those short-term holders that's feeling the pain coming down for like 92 to 84. And you're going to be panicking because you still don't realize what it is that it's trying to fix. What it isn't even trying to fix, what it does fix. Brandon, your talk, your thoughts on all this, buddy. Give it to me. Yeah, I mean, Bitcoin has absolutely changed my life just like Mattias is saying. But Mattias, you forgot two big Bitcoin bulls that are going to be there as well.

You're looking at him. George Bodie, the legend is going to be in Bitcoin Frog as well. as myself too. So both of us are ready to explore Prague and the great things that you've built out there and the great Bitcoin community. And I think that's the beauty of Bitcoin is that we're all coming here from all over the world talking about one magic internet money that's just floating through cyberspace that's changed our entire lives here. So I think the beauty of Bitcoin is it's opening up multiple different things. And it's not just about number, go up. It's about personal freedom and other aspects of things as well. And so I think, you know,

we're lining out a bunch of bullish reasons as to why Bitcoin keeps getting that number go up technology. But I think people come for the money and then they stay for the money. They realize it's going to be freedom technology. They initially come in for that number go up. And then they realize how Bitcoin can change their lives. And they witness it firsthand as we all sitting here have. So that's why I'm extremely bullish on what Matthias is saying, and I couldn't be more excited to see everybody down in Prague here in just a few short months here, right, Mattias? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The dates are 19 to 21st June.

It's a summertime and beautiful medieval Prague. But, like, I mean, going to any conference is a win situation because you need to meet the people And you need to see if your real eyes that it's an industry as any other, it's growing, you need to see it to get the conviction to be able to stack sets properly and don't have this lettuce hands like the people who are now selling. You know, it's also the time, as Nathan, you said, it takes time, but you can speed it up with being surrounded by smart people. and you don't get the conviction behind the screen, really. You need to go there and talk to people and see it all in one space. It just, you cannot multiply this experience.

No, I completely agree. And before even, I have some things that Brandon, you just teed me up so perfectly for my day today. But, Matash, for anyone that might not be familiar with BTC Prague, can you give us a little bit of what they can expect, what the experience is like? Because I've got to tell you, like, I want to be there so bad,

but I am tied down this year with the newborn. So I got to sit this one out. But from everyone that I've heard go to this event, they tell me it's one of, if not the best, one of the best Bitcoin conferences. Yeah. Thank you for your kind words and congrats on your newborn. So, look, Prague, we've been organizing Bitcoin events since 2020 with my brother.

We started during COVID. It was a lockdown. It was impossible to meet. And we did it because we are honeybedgers. We don't care. So we did it. We had 500 people there. The year after 1,000, the year after 2,000, the year after it was 7.5. And that brings us to last year.

So we are scaling up. And this event is massive. It's the biggest Bitcoin conference in Europe, almost 7, 8, maybe 10,000 people this year, 200 speakers, 100 Bitcoin-only companies. And we create it like we... We do the conferences like it would be for us. So no shit coins, not even slight bullshit, no ordinal stuff, no blockchain event. Nothing like that. You won't see that in Prague.

Because Prague is really hardcore and full of cypherpunks and they would kick us out. So we have to behave. It's a strict Bitcoin Maxi only conference. And again, yes, from everything that I've talked to, from all people have spoken to in the space, they rave about BTC Prague. Brandon, kind of what you were talking about there earlier, and you guys talking about the PLEBs and the empowerment of this too, I got to tell you.

So I had a wonderful experience today of people who are absolutely ready for Bitcoin in the message, and there's still more and more coming. I got invited to speak at basically like a regenerative farming conference up north of me in kind of rural Alberta. These were farmers, ranchers, people kind of in the, we'd say like alternative health and nutrition, but they're all people that are extremely, freedom focused, absolutely freedom focused. And so I ended up giving a bit of a talk. And what I

spoke about was going back to 2022 to the trucker protest and how Bitcoin was the only digital payment system that was able to get the funds where it had to go and how that built the template, like really talked about, we didn't touch on price. We didn't touch on even necessarily store value, just kind of quickly, you know, brushing by. But these people that are feeling the pressure of regulation and some of the ridiculous new, I've heard about the farmers like getting in all kinds of shit with the authorities because they're selling food to people. Like, it's absolutely ridiculous that they're stopping people from getting the best most nutritious beef they could have possibly had. But of course, the government has to inject themselves there as well, too. And I got to

tell you, like, I was so worried that I would get through my presentation too fast and to be just dead silent. It was a packed room full of farmers that just had a million questions about it. Because that sort of self-sovereignty, that idea and those freedom aligning, those plebs, there are still plebs out there that haven't discovered Bitcoin and they're finding their way to it. And it's absolutely incredible. In fact, I'm not sure of you guys have ever heard of. We had him speak, I think, at the Bitcoin rode you last time, but Dakota Cohen of building your homestead, he was there in one of the speakers too. And there's this amazing overlap between all those low time preference behaviors, your health, your food, new nutrition, all that stuff too, that just ties back to the

Bitcoiners that we have, we have piling into the space. George, I saw you nodding your head there. So I wanted to quickly ask if there's anything else you want to add to that, buddy. No, I'm just, I'll tell you something, that that circular nature of what Bitcoin is, you know, sometimes it feels like we're all sitting around in a campfire speaking to each other, you know, and I'm sure people outside are looking at us going, what a bunch of nuts. But the bottom line is, you know, most of the people you meet in Bitcoin, they're, they're brothers in the sense that they're, you know, they're usually well read, they question authority, they're independent, they're strong, morally and ethically aligned with who you are. And this is going to grow and it's going to get bigger.

And the stronger we become through adoption and bringing normal normies into here. And I'm not just talking about big companies. I'm not talking about, you know, there's things I've got real concerns about, you know, Coinbase. I mean, give me a break. You know, talk about a honeypot. That should make people nervous. You know, all these big regulatory agencies that are coming into our space. They're friends now. And we've got executive orders. They're friends now. But what we really want is we want normies. We want people like ourselves in this space. We want to be able to go to these meetings and go to Prague. And we want to be able to go and talk to our friends. People that are aligned with us and that are building a better future. And that's, you know, that's what I'm

for. I completely agree. You know what we really need? We need self-c custody and non-KyC Bitcoin. That's what you really need. Don't give them chance. it's not so difficult. Like, just don't be convenient freak. Just do it the right way. Yep. And with that, I'll just throw the good old cold card QR up on the screen there for anybody looking to get a new Bitcoin wallet.

Highly recommend the cold card. I love cold card. I absolutely love mine. I got it in my bag. I brought it with me to the conference, too, just to show people. But even to your point, Mattias, like that idea of a circular economy, that's a great way to get non-Kyc Bitcoin, right? If you've got some beef, some good, you got some services, something you could sell the people,

ask for Bitcoin. It's a great way to stack. I'm kind of curious. And Brandon, I'll throw it to you on this kind of lower level pleb adoption. So for me, again, it's the bias that I'm going to see. I'm seeing, although retail's not coming back in necessarily yet, I'm seeing small mom and pop real estate investors starting to be a bit of a stream of people coming into Bitcoin. Hey, you don't have to deal with landlord issues and you can get a better, you know, kind of compounded annual growth return. and they're kind of identifying because again, they come from the kind of sound money camp.

Like even if they don't necessarily know why the house is appreciating in value, it's easy to kind of make that connection. And then the other one that I mentioned is also a lot of these kind of freedom-focused, kind of regenerative farming community that are jumping on board too. I'm wondering, let's assume that retail does jump back in here at some point. Who do you think the audience that's maybe prime that's going to come in? Or what are you maybe seeing from some interest right now? Yeah.

So, I mean, real estate is obviously just hand in hand here. They understand the hard money principles. The one unique thing that real estate does have is that a bank will throw thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions of dollars to you at a low interest rate just to have you buy a house. Hopefully we could get some banks to do that for us for Bitcoin here pretty soon. But regardless, they all understand the hard money and hard money principles and putting your money into hard assets, right?

They understand the scarcity assets. So it's really something very easy. The one thing that they were very tentative on before was a lot of that regulation. So now that Trump is in office and a lot of those real estate investors are seeing a crypto-friendly president come in, they're not really worried about it. So now they're getting what I like to call as crypto-curious. They're going to become Bitcoin Maxis here soon. But right now they're trying to figure out what the hell this thing is.

And is it just Bitcoin only? Do I need to go to XRP and all these other things? So that's why we need great shows like we've got here to continue to pump out that content and really preach Bitcoin and Bitcoin only. So I think real estate's a prime one. And I think if you look at the numbers, people say retail is nowhere to be found. Over 60% of millennials own some sort of Bitcoin. So I think the younger you get, the more Bitcoin that's there, I think we just got to get George, to get his buddies and right in by his back there, George. You know what?

Listen. Listen, I'm going to tell you something. I stand alone here. I mean, in the sense that none of my buddies, I've been talking about Bitcoin for five fucking years of these idiots. And you know what? Anybody my age that's in my group, not a one of them have bought.

Not a one of them's gotten into it. You know, in 22, I sat at a coffee shop with a friend of mine, my hunting buddy. I go out with a bow every year and I go out in the woods and chase elk around. And, you know, I told that guy, said, I'm buying as much Bitcoin as I can comfortably afford right now. And you know, he never got any. And if you're listening out there, Aaron, I don't know what to say to you, buddy. Just, you know, get off your ass and get going.

But, you know, retail is buying. I mean, on the ETS right now, you're right, 70%, maybe even as high as 80% of the purchases right now or by retail investors or high net worth individuals, not companies. So that's a big deal. I mean, we are attracting people into this space now that, unfortunately, that's not self-custody, but you know what? I don't know what to say to that. Hopefully we can make that happen in the future. One step at a time before Coinbase blows up. Yeah. Well, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, sorry. I just wanted to say that like I don't I don't mind if someone starts with ATF or even some

shit coin always always lead to Bitcoin. Yeah, it's just a learning experience. It's it's an evolution of Bitcoinser to fall into some traps. I think, I believe that everyone needs to feel the pain to really understand the value. And I had my shit coin face. I'm not really proud about this, but I tell it. I can tell it. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

I used to trade all these shit coins. I had like hundreds of them, you know. And that's why I have a compassion for people who comes new to Bitcoin. And they really don't see the difference because you need to spend a lot of time to actually differentiate Bitcoin from something else. And those shitcoins, those companies, I don't have compassion for those companies. I have only compassion for the people who fall for them. Because those companies, they have so much money. They spend money and they do marketing and it's really slick.

It's not nice. It's manipulation most of the time and a lot of lies. So yeah, it's it's a all roads lead to Bitcoin and it's as as you said, George, in the beginning, everyone gets Bitcoin for the price they deserve. I love that. All roads lead to Bitcoin and all roads also lead Bitcoiners to BTC Prague. So if you haven't booked your trip already, make sure you go and you hit that up. But it's funny quickly before we take another break here, Brandon, I want to touch on even that idea of banks lending against Bitcoin. And one thing that caught my attention, and I still don't know exactly. what to make of it, but I think that we are going in that direction, talking about loaning against

like a house, like would they maybe recognize Bitcoin as the pristine collateral that it is, was Anchor Watch with their insurance product. And when I found out that their Bitcoin insurance was only 55 basis points for the whole thing, I was blown away by how cheap that is. And I do suspect that that kind of Bitcoin as a collateral is going to get much more favorable terms down the road. But with that, gentlemen, I'm going to put a pin in this topic. We're going to take another quick break for the messages from the sponsors. And when we get back, we're going to rotate. And George, I'm going to come to you.

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All right, guys. We are back. We are back again. For everyone in the audience, please do us a favor if you can, smash that like button, throw a comment down below, maybe share this with somebody who's maybe gone down the shit coin path and trying to help them out a little bit. And for anyone that's looking for help with their Bitcoin, myself, Gary, who does another show with me as well, too, and of course, Ben, we're all part of Bitcoin mentor.

So if you're finding that you just don't have the time necessarily to dive into all the tutorials, sort of make it way through all the documents and articles and things. Feel free to reach out. We'd love to chat with you and help you speed run that self-custody journey. And with that, George, I'm going to throw it to you. I'm going to ask you the same question. Same question that you knew was common, my friend. And I am very excited to see what kind of rant we get out of you today.

Mr. Bodeen, why are you bullish? Oh, fuck, bud. Man, I mean, how much time have I got? Can I just like spend the next 30 minutes? You just poster, absolutely. Man, I mean, I won't guys, but I, oh my God, I don't know where to start. I mean, if you haven't been paying attention over the last year, see, I actually think that this last year and the next year are going to be pivotal moments. People are going to look back on these last, the next year and look back on this period and they're going to say, man, that was that was a moment.

That was when we crossed the Rubicon. And, you know, I've been using that term quite a bit. And I've noticed that other people are picking up on it, not because of me, but it's just because they're starting. to tumble to the same fact. You know, I love Roman history. I mean, I was just reading about the gladius, that short little sword that Roman soldiers used for, you know, a thousand years to create their empire. But you know, the thing that about the Rubicon is that takes place in 49 BC. It's on January 10th. It's in the evening. Julius Caesar is going to march to Rome. And he's right there on the north bank of the Rubicon River. And he's told his men earlier in the day, he said,

hey, we're going to cross. And they all know what that means. They fought with him now for years. He has behind his back on the north side is all of Gaul. He has conquered 1,000 cities, 300 tribes. Did you ever watch that movie, Gladiator? At the very beginning, there's a battle scene. That's what Julius Caesar was involved in for years battling that type of a battle. And he was victorious in every one of them. His men had been starved. They'd been cold. They'd stood with him. and now they were standing on the bank and they were shifting foot to foot. Couldn't understand why he didn't give the order to cross. It was said that he was staring off in the distance, wondering,

and I'll bet I know what he's wondering about, because there was a law in Rome that if you cross that river with your army, which he was about to do, you had committed treason, and you were going to be executed, and all his men would be executed. So he stood there. Finally, he raised his hand, and he gave the signal. And when he got to the other side, he said, the dye is cast. Elena Yaqda est, the die is cast.

And what he meant was, I could never go back. And that's where we're at right now. We have squeezed the tube out of the toothpaste kids. And although we're, you know, screwing around here on these different levels like 80 to 88 to 80 to 88 back and forth, you know, this cycle may be different. It may be a different cycle. we may be building a stair step that just goes up to the right forever. So you got to just be prepared. I would not be trading Bitcoin right now.

I would not be thinking I'm going to time this market because you'll get your eyes watered. You'll have that come to Jesus moment. So I'm just telling you, all you have to do is pay attention in the news cycle. You look at back what's happened over the last year and then trust me, where it's going in the next year, you are not going to be able to keep up with it. And you just get to stack as much Bitcoin as you can right now and just hang on to it. And yeah, I'm pretty bullish right now.

That is fantastic. And like I completely agree. I often, it's funny, at the last halving, I actually had like a bit of a panic attack. Like I was worried like that point in time was approaching. Whereas like, oh man, my runway for stacking stats is slowly but surely kind of maybe running out here. But George, too, absolutely put you on the.

spot and in no way financial advice. I'm just kind of curious. When you say you're really bullish, man, where do you see things going maybe this year? Again, just random numbers that we're throwing out. So since I'm an artist right now and I'm not actually professionally doing this and I'm not writing a newsletter, I can say anything I want. One of the nice things about being an artist is people don't expect a lot out of you. They know you're half crazy. In fact, I could just take my clothes off right now. Nobody'd give a shit. They'd go, oh, he's just an artist. He's in nuts. But the bottom, bottom line is, you know, I do follow a lot of people and I was following cycle theory pretty tensely. And my base case was with 225 to 285 in the next cycle. And I'll tell you right now,

pay attention. If you're watching this or you're listening, pay attention. I don't have any clue where things are going next. I am clueless. I think we're in a new paradigm shift. I do know that it's going to go up and to the right. It's going to go up there forever. but I don't know what's going to happen in this next cycle. I mean, you know, it could go, it could go to a million dollars of coin. I don't know. And it could stick around here for another month and then start going up again. So I'm sorry I can't give you a number other than what I originally had.

No, absolutely. I just wanted to tease it out of you because I was curious like, what is he envisioning? Because, man, he's getting me pumped. I'm getting ready, apparently to storm Rome. Brandon, I want to throw it to you, man. What are you thinking from everything we just heard from George? And I'm going to pressure you for a random, of course, not going to hold you to it prediction at the end.

Hey, I want you to hold me to it, man. Okay, okay. One of these predictions here. George, I thought you were supposed to get me bullish, man. What are we doing, man? Come on. We've got a huge bull run ahead of us. I mean, I was saying before the Bitcoin strategic reserve, regardless of any of that,

if anything didn't happen, I would be shocked if we didn't see at least 250k Bitcoin. But now with all of this here, I mean, we could be on the cusp of a million dollar Bitcoin this cycle. I wouldn't be surprised if we at least get up to 850,000 that range towards the top here. And hey, hold it. Hold me to it. If you guys think I'm crazy by the end of the year with all this, then fine. So be it. But I'd rather be on the bullish side of things because of everything that George is lining out here. We're about to storm everything. I mean, it might be January 6 all over again here as we're just going and getting ready to go storm and get as much Bitcoin as possible because we have governments coming in. We have corporations coming in.

We got all the big dogs coming and finally realizing what you, the plebs, have realized for quite some time. So now they're all coming to roost. And it's our time to shine here, folks. 2025 is the year. I completely agree. And I'm definitely more in your guys' camp as well, too. For me, I've been, I kind of had a feeling and I maybe didn't give it necessarily enough credit of what kind of a psychological hurdle, psychological hurdle six figures was going to be,

that there must have been so many people that have been waiting for so long, dreaming of Bitcoin at $100,000, those really long-term holders that when it actually came to fruition, they were going to make that big lifestyle change. That was probably the number, the easy number, they picked that in their mind like, man, one day, I swear it's going to go to 100K. And when that happens, I'm buying a fucking island, right? They were ready to go.

We've seen that. It's like a million coins from the long-term holders have changed hands. But eventually, in my mind, six figures is going to be normalized. That's going to become the norm. And then moving through that range, getting back to where we're going to attack, perhaps on the next cycle,

or maybe this one as well too, I don't think it's unreasonable. I think that even big players can get stupid with leverage. And I fully expect, again, in no way, financial advice. I fully expect a blow off top and a giant crash as well too. I would absolutely love to see it like peg $500,000 and drop down to $58K, just to make those guys happy. I'll ride that out again.

I don't care. I think that we have crossed the Rubicon. It's gone too far. You can't have nation states and corporations at this kind of, of level, again, even going back to that idea of narrative, normalizing Bitcoin, and every time a new one of them enters a space, it's the admission that, yeah, it is the best money. It is the pristine collateral. You got to take a look at it.

It's going to happen. It's everything is ever so slightly, not even slight. Some of these are big jumps, inching us towards that final kind of, you know, it's the global money. It's that global settlement layer. So, Mattias, I'm curious, throwing it to you, buddy, do you think, do you agree? Maybe I'm crazy, right? Maybe like, no, we're done here.

It's the next cycle. But give me your random number generator price prediction because it's fun. And I won't hold you to it, I promise. But also, do you think that we've crossed that threshold like George was talking about? Have we crossed the Rubicon? Is there no looking back now? It's a good question. Very, very difficult.

I like, and now after hearing Brandon, I don't know what to say. He throwed out a million there. And I think it's more close to what George said. And I have my personal strategy for this bull market to also sell some Bitcoin because I want to enjoy. I have a family. So I want to have a nice life. Finally, you know. So the question is, what will the bear market look like?

And if we get the downside like it used to be 80%. And I think that's something what will change this bull market, that the floor won't be so deep. And it will smooth out the way till forever, yeah, forever up, Laura. But, you know, I really, I think that I want to be surprised about the big gut candle, how far it will go. I think that we will all have our jaw drop down because we will see something crazy, some hysteria like the bull market before and the one before. I think it will be same, same, but different. No, all very good points. It's funny.

My biggest fear, my biggest fear is that either George or Brandon is right and we never get that correction, that that accumulation phase is starting to run its course. I hope the four-year cycle is still in play because. I'm not going to get shaken out. It's not going to scare me at all. I just got to tell me that I got more time to try and get friends and family on the light boy. I mean, to George's earlier point, I do this and I can barely orange pill anyone. Like I try. I had one good friend of mine when we hit 100K. He reached out to me and he goes, man, I bet everyone's so happy that they listened to you. And I had to stop him and go, dude, you're the only one. You're the only one. You're the only one that followed me on this even a little bit. It's just, it's so much to take in.

So, George, are you kind of thinking that like the four-year cycles are perhaps reaching their end, that we're getting maybe a little less volatility, a little more stability? There's a real good chance that things are changing. I mean, I follow a lot of charting. You know, I subscribe to Checkmates, James Checks's Check on Chain newsletter. He does good work. He does do good work. And I mean, he's always kind of my grounding rod.

And I don't know about it. I want to address one thing, though, that Mattie. said, I want to say something. You know, there's a very good chance in the future that you'll never have to sell your Bitcoin. And it's going to piss some people off what I'm going to say right now because, in fact, I don't know if you saw the breaking news today, but the FDIC just was given clearance by regulators to go ahead, or they gave clearance to banks to go ahead and start entering the crypto space, permissionless basically.

And Bo Heinz was the director there, the executive director of that digital advisors group. I mean, he posted this and then some other people jumped on it too. I don't know if you remember who the guy was that was in charge, the FDIC. His name was Martin Grudenberg. And I'm glad, you know, I hope the door hit him on the ass on the way out. He was there for the very first choke point 1.0 with Barack Obama. He's the one that helped.

He was the architect of some of that. shit illegal shit in my mind and uh he stayed he was there for choke point 2.0 he was there as a stooge for you know Warren and and other people that were against Bitcoin and digital assets and he's gone he resigned because he knew what was coming he was going to get the broom and he's gone and guess what this is a big deal and the repeal of sob 121 I can't tell you how important that is damn it. You know, you're going to see banks enter this space left and right. And they are going to want your Bitcoin. In the future, you know, in a couple of years from now, you're going to have all kinds of product coming out. And if you actually own Bitcoin, if you have Bitcoin,

not some ETF, but if you have Bitcoin, they're going to want it. And I mean, it's up to you what you're going to take for your level of risk and exposure. But you're going to be able to generate yield in the future. Heck, there was a great article just came out on the lightning network and a way to generate yield in the future in lightning. But of course, the last thing I want to say before I shut up here is that, you know, when you've got your hardware wallet in your hand or you've got those seed words memorized, that is a bearer instrument, good for final settlement, just like a bar of gold, whether it's stuck up your butt or wherever it is. A bar of gold is the same thing. There's no counter party risk to that. And so it doesn't generate any yield. There is no yield. You are the

yield. And so when I say that you're going to be able to live off of that Bitcoin, what I'm talking about is you're going to have to decide how much you're willing to risk and what that risk is. And if we're actually dealing with banks, my bottom line is I will never deal with the bank unless it has proof of reserves that I can see out there in clear sight. And I guess I'll stop there. No, that's absolutely wonderful. Mateus, your thoughts on that. Yeah, you can live on Bitcoin without selling even now.

Yeah, like, yeah. We can borrow against it. But the conditions are just not really good yet. So this will also evolve in some that those products will be better and better. So in a future, yes. But we, I think that we will still need to wait. wait one or two cycles before it will really hit the part what you are talking about. You might be right about that because right now the interest rates are ridiculous.

It's it's not possible to do what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is buy, borrow, dye dynasty. That's what I call it. And that is possible, I think, in the future. And the reason is because Bitcoin, what is Bitcoin? Bitcoin is the greatest single collateral that any bank could ever want on their balance sheet. It's liquid. It's good for a final settlement at the speed of light.

Every bank is going to want that Bitcoin on their balance sheet. And that means you've got a pristine asset. Everybody wants. And that means if the sofa rate, you know, what the overnight funding rate is, right now it's about, it used to be about 4.5%. I don't know where it is now. But that means that you're going to be able to get a loan for probably about 5.5%. Now, if I told you that I'd give you a billion dollars and you had a 5.5%,

rate on that and you stuck it all in Bitcoin, what would you say to yourself, you know what, in four or five years or three years even when I have to pay that loan off, there's a very good chance that I'm going to have a lot more money than that loan's worth. And I can just keep rotating that in and out. And as you get to be my age, you're going to be one of the wealthiest human beings on the planet. So you're right, but I think it's coming. And I think if I can just like final comment, I think that money, are here to save your energy and normal people shouldn't be thinking about financial engineering. You should just do whatever you like and save money, you know? I think that's the main reason.

And like this is, this is, we are crossing a chasm, this Rubicon, to the new age where people finally would be thinking about money differently, you know, and the banks will also change. So we have just like this transition phase before probably we guys, we die, that our kids will live in absolutely different world and they will not use Bitcoin how we envision they will use Bitcoin in absolutely different way. No, I agree. It's funny. I kind of see both your positions and see value both because as long as the loans are still

denominated in fiat currency, yeah, you can just run that game all day and you're probably going to be able to refinance and be just fine down the road too. But Matej, to your point as well, like it's the ultimate, like we, We've reintroduced savings technology, right? That's essentially what is. We've got an ability to save for the future. And I don't have any intention of ever selling or even necessarily borrowing against my Bitcoin. But boy, howdy, would I sure love to just be able to spend it without any tax implications?

Like if that comes down the pipe where there's no capital gains tax implications, I can just use this as money. For me, that's game over. I'm great. I'm golden. I'm done. My family is happy. Before we wrap thing up, though, Brandon, I want to give you a quick chance to respond to all that as well, too. Yeah.

I mean, I think that we're on the cusp of something absolutely electric that cannot be even fathomed. I think majority of people, including those in Bitcoin, still don't understand the amount of scarcity of Bitcoin just because we've never seen anything like it before. So, you know, I think with that, we're just primed for a blow off the top. And that's why I'm so bullish. And I'm throwing out a million dollars a coin here. Because I think, you know, I think we're about to pop that top off. I know George is a little scared to give us a price prediction. And I want George to do it.

But I will do it for us, George. You can tell you can tell your friends that it's just a young kid with the backwards hat with the microphone that's too big for his face that is yelling and spewing all this bull. But in reality, I think I think you're just as bullish as me, maybe even more bullish, George. You're just too afraid to say it right now, man. Well, I am bullish. There is no doubt about that, buddy. I can't wait. We'll have a beer.

You know, anybody that's listening right now, if you go over to Prague, you know, I'll definitely buy you a beer. We'll have a good time. Let's sit there and have some fun. Beautiful. And with that, gentlemen, I think that's the perfect place to wrap up the show. Everybody watching and listening on the live stream, please do smash that like button. Make sure you're following Brandon and Mateus and George all over social media, and we will talk to you again soon. Thank you, everybody.