BTC Sessions - Elon Musk Just Sent A Chilling WARNING & Bitcoin Bombshell | Joe Burnett, Cohen, Pollock

Episode Date: June 7, 2025

Elon Musk just issued a new warning about a $36.1 trillion lie—and it’s pushing Bitcoin into the spotlight like never before. Joe Burnett, Boyd Cohen, and Stephen Pollock unpack what this means for global finance and Bitcoin’s role in the chaos ahead.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/IIICapitalhttps://x.com/boydcohenhttps://x.com/spollockbtcFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCp#btc #bitcoin #crypto

Elon Musk, the main man in charge of cutting government waste, is sounding the alarm on the nothing stops this train of debt barreling towards the U.S. He said recently, quote, I'm sorry, but I just can't stand it anymore. This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it. You know you did wrong. You know it. And guess what?

Democrats and Republicans are best buds when it comes to piling on spending. Just this weekend, Elizabeth Warren and Donald Trump both agreed, on not only raising the $36.1 trillion lie of a debt ceiling, but eliminating it altogether, because staying on budget is, quote, too catastrophic. Let's quickly hop over and have a listen to see what they had to say. I'll tell you, a certain senator, Elizabeth Warren, said that she would never ever allow a default on our debt.

She would never let it happen. and she would like to get rid of the debt ceiling, what's called the debt ceiling. I call it the debt extension, because we really need an extension, that she'd like to see that gotten rid of. And there are many people that agree. Many Democrats agree with that.

But we gave that through, and I don't want to say that, he did it well, meaning they gave that to us. It was a Democrat problem just before the election. Would have had a huge impact on the election. And to our benefit, we won anyway, but to our benefit, but felt that really for the good of the country, we should extend that.

But Elizabeth Warren and various other people would like to see that. Her whole career, she wanted to see it, terminated, gotten rid of not being voted on every five years or ten years. And the reason was because it's so catastrophic for our country. And I always agreed with her. That was one thing I agreed with her on. Now, I haven't spoken to her, but I would say that if you asked her that question now, she'd say, no, no, it's their problem. But it's a very unfortunate situation.

It's a very unfair situation. And she happened to be right on that. It should be gotten rid of, or it should simply be extended. But that's one of the things that gets taken care of in this bill. That automatically gets extended for a four-year period. And it should be. But I agree with Elizabeth Warren on that. I think you should get rid of it. It's too catastrophic. Absolutely ridiculous. Just it's there's no attempt. It's, even like pretending at this point anymore. Now, we all know Bitcoin is the solution to this Fiat mess, but the question now is, has Musk maybe seen the light? Recently, Brian Armstrong, CEO of Coinbase said in response, quote, if the electorate doesn't hold Congress accountable to reducing the deficit

and start paying down the debt, Bitcoin is going to take over as the reserve currency, to which Elon responded with the single American flag. Elon also mentioned that a new ex-chat feature would be rolling out with, quote, Bitcoin-style encryption. sounds like someone might be doing their homework. We're going to discuss this and more with our amazing panel of guests today. We've got the Bitcoin strategist and author of Bitcoin Singularity, Boyd Cohen, senior vice president at the Bitcoin Policy Institute, Stephen Pollack, and Director of Market Research at Unchained Mr. Joe Burnett. Plex, get in here. This is an episode you can't afford to miss. Filling in for Mr. BTC Sessions, I am Nathan with the BTC Sessions,

and this is your bullish session. All right, let's bring the team in here. We've got Stephen, Joe. Gentlemen, it's so good to see you. Thank you for joining me today. Let me get that screen. I'll sort it out in the order that it should be. We'll find our way there. There we go.

Beautiful. Even just quickly, guys, I want to get your thoughts on that on the congressional spending bill, where this fiscal train is going. But even to add insult to injury, I saw recently it was Jerome Powell talking about the end of the Breton Woods era. So it seems like things might be kind of picking up. Joe, I'll throw it to you first, man. What we'll take there?

Yeah, I mean, for me. my perspective, it's kind of funny and interesting that both Elizabeth Warren and Donald Trump agree that this train actually has no breaks. It's the one thing that they agree on that Linald also mentions. I mean, to me, it's not too surprising. Like both sides of the table, you know, might disagree on what they should be spending money on, but at this point, they both agree that they should be spending a lot more money than they actually have. And the national debt is, you know, as Elon is starting to realize is going to keep trending up forever, no matter if, you know, you have Trump who is willing to shake things up and Elon, which was willing to shake things up,

those were the maybe the Doge dream team and they were, you know, absolute failure at significantly reducing the national debt and just physical stimulus in general. So it's like, it seems like he's starting to catch on or he's starting to get really irritated that the train actually has no breaks, and maybe he's close to diving down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. We'll see. Man, I hope so. Stephen, I'm curious your take on that, too. Well, I'm sure it's terrifying to, like, you know, stare into the eye of this storm,

as many of us have, you know, come to understand. And the president's no different. I think it's one thing to come in with a plan and a strategy. And it's another thing to have to, you know, accept reality. And reality is that no amount of, you know, no amount of budget cutting, no amount of Doge was going to, as you said, to stop the train. And not only that, but when we look at our deficits, when we look at what we're staring down, and this is like comments. I don't think, you know, it's kind of funny because like, hey, welcome, welcome to the real world where a lot of us have been kind of camped out for a while. It's like the only way we're really going to get out of this mess is we're probably going to have to.

make more money and print it and increase supply. And that's how we're going to, the only way forward. So I guess I'm not surprised. I get to your point, I think I am, it is interesting to hear and see Elon changing ever so slightly. Not necessarily his tone. I mean, he's been pounding the table for, for, you know, fiscal discipline all year. but in the face of kind of, I think, you know, a hard L here, you know, Doge, you know, going away. And now, you know, this being pushed forward, debt limits being extended yet again.

Shocker, right. But, yeah, I think, I think there's an opening here. And, you know, we've, you know, Bitcoiners have been some very, you know, kind of picked on Elon a little bit. But I think, you know, this opportunity may hopefully welcome into bold. Absolutely. I completely agree. And Boyd, I'm going to toss to you then. I'm really curious if you think it's, it's what kind of strikes me as unusual,

but maybe it's possible as well, too. Elon is clearly someone who has identified the problem. And now experiencing like the emotional frustration because he actually did a solid attempt. I know a lot of people were telling him like, hey, man, even if you do the best possible work, it's just not possible. The numbers don't, they don't line up. And we had Tesla originally accepting Bitcoin. I think it was back in like 2021.

one, like he's been around the space. We know that he holds Bitcoin, and I'm pretty sure still too. And I think both SpaceX and Tesla do. I wonder, like, is it even possible that you could be so close to this and not actually see the solution? I'm curious, your thoughts. No, I think it's impossible. He doesn't see it.

I think he's seen it for a very long time. There's some ulterior motives. There's something going on there that he's gone, like, very silent around Bitcoin over the last several years, like way before Trump took office. even though all around Elon during the take the initiation the inauguration

everything else there was so much discussion around the the treasurer and all the rest you would have thought he would have opined on it then made some comments about it he's probably been more in the last few years

more vocal around the Doge meme coin than he has been around Bitcoin which makes no sense whatsoever although he's pumping his bags there but as you say like he's seen he's he's been in the eye of the storm he's seen it firsthand he knows he now knows more than we do about how hard it is to to move that ship that the trains left the station all the rest of it and you would think i mean it's almost impossible to come to any other conclusion

other than the fact that we need to go back to sound money and when you hear his argumentation around what's wrong with the way they're doing it now with the with the big beautiful bill and all the He sounds just like a bit corner, so he probably is one in the closet. We just need to get him out of it. Yeah, he might still be vying for some of those, you know, green subsidies, if any of coming his way. So perhaps there is an ulterior motive. Can't say can't read the guy's mind.

But gentlemen, yes. I don't think so. Hold on. I was thinking about this today. The way he's coming out swinging against Trump, Trump does not take that stuff likely. He thought that Elon was in his corner and now he's coming out, calling it an abominium. of a bill, which is Trump's beautiful bill.

I don't know. I have a feeling Trump's going to be trying to find ways to get at him by like, I don't know, imposing tariffs on domestically made EVs in the U.S. Actually, boy, that's a fantastic point. I completely agree. You're right. And yeah, Trump is one of the fiercest. If you're his friend, he'll try and raise you up.

And if you turn against him even slightly, he'll do everything he can to tear you down. I remember going just off topic quickly, the little Kim Jong-il, right? Rocket Man. Clear example of like when you're with him, he'll praise you. When you're against him, he will try and shut you down. But with that, this is why are we bullish? So Boyd, I'm going to toss it to you first, my friend. I'm giving you the same question that everyone gets. Why are you bullish? I mean, we could start with what we just said. You know, the U.S. realized nothing stopping this train. They want to, you know, remove the debt ceiling. We know money's coming in. We know what happens. That injection of a new money supply always ends up.

trickling down to Bitcoin. It's just like a black hole with gravity, just sucking anything that's of less value into it. So that's a starting point. But, you know, I also would like to say on another side of the whole perspective, it's just the sort of growing adoption of Bitcoin and the growing mainstreaming of Bitcoin that we're seeing over the last months and the past year or so, not just on the corporate side, which is super exciting. And not just on the nation state side, which is debatable within the Bitcoin

community if that's actually a good thing or not but i'm thinking more on like the ways that it's becoming more uh accessible for the average person to acquire and spend bitcoin and again that of course is debatable you look at you know michael sailor with strategy sort of saying you shouldn't spend your bitcoin but you know i think a lot of us in the bitcoin community believe is spending replaces is the path forward for now while bitcoin and fiat kind of operate together and you know i i At the Las Vegas conference, you know, I took a group with the Aqua Wallet to steak and shake, and we had an awesome time, you know, buying, you know, burgers and tallow fries with Bitcoin. And I brought a social media emerging star, Professor B, her name is Tha, with me.

And her shock and odd, how easy the whole thing was, was just amazing to witness. And then you look like right around the same time, you know, Square announces that now all of their POS termination, I don't know how many have I've heard something like five 10 million I'm not sure small businesses have these terminals and They're going to make it so that it's not like the the retailers have to do anything to adapt or sign up for opt into this It's just going to be a default setting in there that for any customer that comes and wants to pay in Bitcoin they can and of course it could be Automatically diverted the fiat if the retailer wants or could be used as like four savings that they want I think we're starting to see, we're on the cusp of mainstreaming Bitcoin across all levels of society and this convergence from just a store of value, the best ever seen in the world,

to also being the best money in the world. We're witnessing it firsthand and we're lucky to have a seat at the table. Yeah, amen to that, right? I feel unbelievably lucky to be here. And it's funny because it kind of feels to me like, I know it's not actually, but like Dorsey v. Sailor on this medium of exchange at front. where we got one really pushing. No, no, no, it's fine.

Dollar's fine. Don't worry about it. Just to store a value. And then we got Dorsey going out there and looking at including this at every square terminal. So, Joe, I'll start with you. What are your thoughts on Boyd's reason for being bullish?

I agree with a lot of what Boyd said there. I mean, I've been to steak and shake twice now, actually. It's been a, it's been an awesome experience, actually, like going to the terminal because you don't even talk to a person, or at least the one that I went to, scan the QR code. it's a pretty much instant experience. And the burger and the fries and the milkcake that I had the second time was pretty good. So it was an awesome experience.

I mean, yeah, like I said, I agree with what Boyd said. I think overall, it's still so early in global Bitcoin adoption that most people really just have like no idea. I think a big thing that I've been thinking about recently is micro strategy, potentially entering the S&P 500 next quarter. because I think a lot of people, in fact, like, you know, like 99.9% of people are kind of just like sleepwalking through their finances and sleepwalking through saving in their 401k or their IRA. They're, you know, listening to their traditional financial advisor. They're buying passive index funds that just decide to buy everything in the market and effectively just follows the market. And so I think having micro strategy potentially entered the SB 500 later this year, if it qualifies. and if the SMP committee grants it into the index could be huge because that will pretty much

instantly enable everyone with a typical 401k that just does the basic, you know, target date portfolio or just decides to invest in index funds. Now they'll actually have a pretty significant allocation to Bitcoin, whether they know it or not. And then financial advisors that just kind of preach the same thing, build this, you know, massive diversified portfolio of a variety of different. assets, they will also be allocating naturally to micro strategy. And then as the price of Bitcoin goes up and as micro strategy goes up, all of those advisors and individuals that have those diversified portfolios will be increasing their allocation

to Bitcoin and micro strategy simply because the price goes up because that's how those index index funds function. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, short term is so hard to tell in the world of Bitcoin. I never like to say like what's going to happen over the next 12 months. But I mean, long term, it seems like it looks more bullish than almost ever before. Yeah, it's incredibly exciting right now. And it's funny because everyone's kind of getting bored at like 100, 4005K. Guys, we're six figures and everyone's already like sleepwalking on this one.

Jumping back to Boyd's comment on me, move exchange. Stephen, I want to get your thoughts. But before I let you go there too, one thing I want to interject is you're right, Boyd, spend and replace absolutely way to go. It gives you a chance to practice it, right? A lot of people in the Western world that's just hodeling. you don't get a chance to use your signing devices to actually familiarize yourself with Bitcoin on the day-to-day level. And I will say from personal experience, too, if you can get paid in Bitcoin, it's wonderful. And there's some sort of a psychological switch there where I had such an aversion to spending my sats when I was, you know, fiat to Bitcoin and then putting them away.

When I got paid in Bitcoin, I was actually kind of excited to go out and then just use it. I want to try it at merchants. I want to spend it. If I had a stake in shake nearby, I would absolutely be using it. But, Stephen, medium of exchange, excitement for Bitcoin. What are your thoughts, man? Yeah, I mean, I think if there's one thing, I think it's bake and shake wants to accomplish, it'll more burgers and French fries. And I mean, that's their goal in life, right?

And so if we see a major retailer, a major chain, when we see these types of companies getting to adopt Bitcoin and not only adopt it, but, you know, show up with dancing cows. Yeah, that was a little critch. at a Bitcoin conference in Vegas and speak on stage and use this, again, not just as a thing they're doing, but as something they're actively promoting that's the focus of a massive major marketing campaign. I think that tells us a few things. One, I think it tells us that the economic incentives are aligning for even those who maybe, maybe I'm not saying they do or don't, but they may not, they don't have to care

about Bitcoin. They don't have to necessarily get it. But they're seeing something happening. They're seeing massive adoption. They're seeing an active, you know, a group of people who are passionate. And they're saying, we want to be, we want to get a piece of that. We want to be a part of that. And that may sound cynical to some people.

But I don't think it is. I think it's incredible. And especially when you go back to like, you know, in your local restaurants, I mean, man, it's so great. We got the local burger joint up the road to start accepting Bitcoin. Well, we just got thousands of them all at once. And nobody was pressuring them to do it. They just saw, they're like, man, you know, maybe they love Bitcoin.

Maybe they just love selling burgers and fries. I don't think it matters. I think it's bullish. Absolutely. Completely agree, right? And it's, it doesn't matter if it's selfish. It's essentially just incentives aligning. Like, it's beneficial for steak and state.

It's beneficial for us too because I'm going to get another place that we can use them. So there's nothing wrong with everyone following their own incentives. Well, beautiful gentlemen, with that, I'm going to put a bow on this topic. We're going to take a quick break for ads from our sponsors. When we come back, we're going to jump into Stevens' reason for bullish, being bullish. We're going to talk a little bit about some shifting political alignments, and we're going to give away some stats from Bitcoin Well. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.

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to scan that Lightning QR code. If it's not working for you, it means that somebody beats you to it. And if you did get it, do me a favor, leave a comment down below. With that, things moving along here. Stephen, I'm going to come to you. Same question that everyone gets. Same question of the show. Why are you bullish? Yeah, I'm incredibly bullish right now.

Nathan, you know, we're seeing, we're going to talk politics. I'm with the Bitcoin Policy Institute. It just makes sense. Let's stick out here. We're seeing a real industry and a presidential administration. We've seen that where everybody knows that. it's obvious. But I don't know if we fully grasp, and some people I talk to that haven't spent, you know, 15 years working in this world may not completely understand that. So I want to unpack

it just a little bit if you guys will humor me. And the reason this matters, just so we're clear from the outset, is because we have this alignment where we have our industry and we have an administration, the administration saying, tell us, like, we want to hear what you're thinking. We want to hear what you need, what you want. They're asking. They're asking. that. And I'll give you a huge example of that here in a minute. But we can we can set the policy rails for success for decades to come. And we have a, we have a just an unprecedented window of opportunity to do so. The, the obvious example of this was just last week in Vegas. And you may, guys may have already hit on it three or four times by now. And it's not going to hurt to hit it again.

Vice President Vance came and spoke at a Bitcoin conference. He, uh, He had, I thought, a great speech. The second half of his speech, I've got a few notes. Here, I'll share with you guys. He said, he talked about Bitcoin. He talked about expanded access to banking. He mentioned Bitcoin being a hedge against central government control, hedge against inflation, hedge against private sector censorship and debanking.

This is a guy who gets it. And if I'm right, it felt like in the moment he was not reading from a teleprompter. This guy was speaking from what he needs. knew and what he's learned over the years. And so that's important. He called Bitcoiners digital pioneers, which was awesome. A cool thing. Cool things are bullish, too. He said, we have the posture of listening to your industry and we want to hear from you guys. He said, you guys deserve the respect and support of your government versus being torn down by your bureaucracy. And he was talking, and there's a, I could keep going on and on, but there's a number of reasons this is important.

When we're talking about regulatory clarity, no more debanking, we've seen that play out. Those weren't just empty promises on a campaign somewhere. Those were, you know, self-custody, the right self-custody, the right to use non-custodial tools. These are really, really important things. And if you don't think so, then just ask all the human rights activists that are using, Bitcoin internationally. The human rights use case for Bitcoin is flourishing as well. But I think, you know, you look, look abroad and you'll see the importance of locking some of these things down while we can. So we have a vice president who comes and speaks. Well, big deal.

We had the president speak last summer, right? We had a guy running for president speak last summer. That summer was a campaign speech. And that doesn't mean it wasn't fantastic. It doesn't mean it wasn't a watershed moment, it absolutely was. But to me, this is a very, very different tone. J.D. Vance is not running for office right now. He will be here in a few years, and we'll get to that in a second, but running for office. It was a campaign stop. I don't think anyone debates that. And now he came through on many of those campaign promises that he made. And I give him a lot of credit for that. But having a sitting vice president come and speak is very different tone and tender that we experienced last summer, and I don't think we can over-emphasize that. The other side of it is he's running for

president very shortly. I looked up the odds on this at the end of the day today. He's sitting, Vice President Vance is setting plus 250 on becoming the next president of United States. The closest to the next closest are setting up plus 1,000 odds. That's the like of, of, likes of Gavin Newsom, AOC, Don Jr., So we're sitting at like a 30% chance that J.D. Vance is going to be the next president of the United States. Three years before that, he's at a Bitcoin conference unpacking some like pretty sophisticated ideas and philosophy behind Bitcoin. I don't know of anything more bullish. I think it's, I think it's fantastic. I think kind of the smaller like point B to this point A would be.

And I'm going to, I'm going to talk about my organization. organization here for a second, the Bitcoin Policy Institute, we have a summit coming up this summer. And the reason I bring that up isn't just to, you know, pump my bags here at BPI, but we just announced we have the deputy director of the CIA, Michael Ellis, who's speaking. That seems interesting. And we have, obviously, Bo Heins is coming. His deputy director, Witt is going to be coming. We have an SEC commissioner. She spoke at the Bitcoin conference last week. She's speaking at the summit in D.C. An SEC commissioner speaking at Bitcoin events, back to back, boom, boom. We have, I don't know, like nine or ten members of Congress, three senators, five or six

congressmen. They're all wanting to be a part of it. They're all, they all get it. These aren't campaign speeches, and I can't emphasize that enough. They want to help forge the path ahead for Bitcoin and build the rails for strong Bitcoin policy for years to come. And I'm I'm incredibly thankful for it. And I think it's insanely bullish. No, I completely agree. And it's, I'm so glad you brought up the human rights organization, HRF as well too,

because that's where Ben is coming back from. That's why I'm filling in today. So that's why I'm sitting here. And it's interesting. You're right. Because I think at the end of the day, sometimes we forget to that politicians, governments, they're just, they're just all people with the same sort of incentives.

They have every reason to come to Bitcoin as well too. But with that, Boyd, I want to get your thoughts on this first. What do you think about what Stephen Hetz share? First of all, Isn't it ironic that we started this whole thing off talking about Elizabeth Warren, the woman who is leading the anti-crypto army? And now she's in cahoots with Trump, who's the pro-Bitcoin president under the goal of removing a cap on debt. Like, are we living in the Matrix already? Like, what's going on?

But from from the sort of U.S. sort of leadership on this, it's fascinating. You know, it's gone from, you know, a place. I'm an American and I was building in the blockchain space in Europe up until just over a year ago. Now I'm in Mexico. And, you know, Americans were fleeing in the crypto, blockchain, Bitcoin space. They were avoiding the U.S. like the plague, and now the U.S. is becoming the epicenter of the world for Bitcoin. I've seen some data that shows if you look directly and indirectly at holdings of Bitcoin

worldwide, it's something like up to 30 to 40 percent of all Bitcoin is held somewhere in the U.S. or by Americans or American companies. So the U.S. is poised to really lead in the Bitcoin transformation of the global economy. the U.S. has been the leader of the global economy for decades anyway. If the U.S. really gets behind it, which as Stephen is saying, they are right now in a way that I don't think any of us could have predicted a year ago, this could be really fascinating times for us over the next several years as the economy sort of maybe migrates to sound money again or there's a more important role for Bitcoin. We'll see whether J.D. Vance is president or not in the future, but I think, you know, I think a point Stephen made that I, I think is true was implied by what he said is that, you know, some of these things get codified

into law. Like, yeah, Trump did the SBR as an executive order. But if it gets passed as law by Congress, that's the kind of thing that just doesn't get unpassed later. It's pretty hard to do that. And on that topic that directly relates to what we're talking about, I think it's worth mentioning what Senator Lomas said yesterday, which for me has gotten insufficient coverage in the Bitcoin community so far, though I did hear some people very concerned about it,

which would be interesting to have a debate about it, but is the point that the U.S. military is now telling her we want the U.S. at a federal level to start stacking Bitcoin because it is now a national security interest that the U.S. is accumulating Bitcoin. Now, like, yeah, that's incredibly bullish for nation-state adoption, FOMO. there's a whole other you know tricker on this around okay well if nation states starts seeing it as a national security issue what are they going to do to try to control it to manipulate the community to you know constrain our ability to you know do a softer hard fork for quantum resistance whatever fascinating topic but the point being it's elevated to military level national security in the u.s like i don't know how much more interest you could have from the national government than that. Yeah, that's incredible. It sounds like Jason Lowry has been climbing the ranks somewhere behind the scenes. Joe, there's tons to unpack there, man. What are your thoughts on all that? Yeah, I mean, I think Boyd and Stephen made some really great points there.

Unchained and BPI actually hosted an online event yesterday with Congressman Nick Begich, and he actually iterated the same idea that Bitcoin is a matter of national security. and if the United States continues to abuse the power of the money printer, at a certain point, they may not be able to use that anymore or may not be as effective as it has been without causing extreme CPI inflation. But I think Stephen made some interesting points about the Trump presentation or speech last year at Nashville at the Bitcoin conference. I think some people could have interpreted it as like, oh, that was a campaign speech.

he's trying to win over the Bitcoiners. And then now it's like, as Stephen made, like, J.D. Vance is not running for, for, you know, election yet. He's just, you know, going to the Bitcoin conference and speaking his mind and speaking his thoughts. And he's pro-Bitcoin, which is like fantastic. So I think it's showing the evolving trend that you have Elizabeth Warren's anti-crypto army, which, my opinion. Nope, Joe froze up on me for a second there.

I'm not sure if he's frozen for you guys as well, too. Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. Well, we'll keep going on and let them jump back in here in just a second. But to his point, right, there's been a huge shift exactly in what's been happening in terms of the sentiment around it. Joe, sorry, we just lost you for a second there. We got you back now.

You were just talking about Elizabeth Warren's crypto army. Okay, great. Yeah, sorry, I think my connection went out first, what second. Yeah, my point that I was trying to make with Elizabeth Warren is I think most normal people or people that are just voting for the next presidential candidate or whoever, there are many normal people that are anti-Bitcoin or anti-crypto. Maybe you have Elizabeth Warren and Brad Sherman that's kind of get what's happening here and understand that Bitcoin is like a pro-freedom movement that potentially could eventually restrict the government from, you know,

spending outrageously, which at this point is, as Elon's pointing out, might actually eventually become popular. But I think most people don't really connect those dots. And most people don't care too much about being anti-bitcoin. On the other hand, you have people that are storing a lot of wealth in Bitcoin, and that's a exponentially growing segment of the population in the United States and all over the world. And those people really care about Bitcoin. If there is a candidate that's against Bitcoin, they're not going to vote for that candidate at all. They almost become like a single one voter issue. So I think that it's just like it's an important point that should be made. that, you know, pro-Bitcoin candidates are probably going to keep winning, and it's only

going to become more important as Bitcoin becomes a more widely held asset. The other thing I kind of want to highlight, and I mentioned this kind of in passing, but spending a career working in the political world, you know, wearing every hat you can imagine, I, I, and I realize many bitcoins are, you know, very political now. Some weren't, and some still aren't. Some don't want to have you to do with it. I get it. I don't blame you. But you know, Bitcoin's been in the political spotlight.

We have, you know, presidents and vice president speaking at the conferences. This is like a, this is a recent phenomenon among, you know, in the Bitcoin world for sure. It was, you know, nobody even knew what it was like three years ago, right? Like, people are like, I don't know what you're talking about Bitcoin. I don't know. how insane this trajectory has been. We're spoiled. I think we're spoiled rotten.

Like, this does not happen this way. You do not suddenly show up. And then the president comes. And then you're the talk of the town in Washington, D.C., and this just happens overnight, especially when you don't have, you know, like a CEO, an Elon Musk, who's, you know, a multi-billionaire who, you know, or has all this influence. It's, this is really of the. like unimaginable grassroots movements that's like ever happened.

It just is it's sort of it doesn't make any sense. But unless you know, if you're looking at it through the lens that we do, it makes a lot of sense. But I just think I can't overemphasize how just how insane the entire thing is. And I hope everyone can appreciate that. No, dude, I completely agree. Like, I could have the dates off a little bit, but like wasn't it like a year and a half ago? maybe a little bit longer, like we just got the ETFs, and that felt like the dream on the horizon. We went from like ETFs to US adoption at a speed that I did not think was fathomable, right?

I did not expect that the US government would possibly be front running some of just like your everyday no corners. I did not think that would happen. I figured it would have been basically complete, almost like public adoption before we reached that kind of level. And to your point, like it's, it's not just the US. Like we had another pro-Bitcoin candidate now just elected in South Korea. and it really feels like to me it's Bitcoin's almost entering the position of one. So everybody already knows the name of the brand. And now we're at the point that everybody has to have an opinion on it.

And it seems like governments and political officials are having to basically dictate or announce where their position is, where their stance is. They have to have some sort of Bitcoin policy, whether pro or against, they have to have some sort of Bitcoin policy. It's become a major campaign issue. And I think it will get to the point where essentially it's almost like saying that like, yeah, we're going to give you more stuff and we're going to cut taxes and we're going to adopt

Bitcoin. It's like, yeah, that just makes sense. We can move on and talk about other things at this point. I'm curious what you guys think because I have this suspicion that like for me, the U.S. adopting Bitcoin makes perfect sense, that I think it's the nations that have particularly are very energy rich. They have a lot of energy resources, but more or less just resources in general that they're the ones that are going to be trying to ride the wave of monetization, ride the wave of Bitcoin adoption. But countries that necessarily don't have those sort of things that are maybe more in services industry or financial sector is more kind of their bread and butter, have kind of a reason to want to hang on to the money printer because they don't really have

things that'll be necessarily in demand or be able to demand Bitcoin for them. Steve, I'll just pass it back to you. Your initial thoughts kind of on that idea. You know, I think that makes sense, like at first, at first blush, you know, I think countries that, I think countries that have debt should find Bitcoin interesting. I think countries that, like you said, energy rich, find it interesting. I think countries that aren't should find it interesting because it's a way for them to become more self, you know, self-efficient and to build out their energy.

I don't know if they're quite there yet. I think countries that have a lot of power find Bitcoin interesting. As apparently, Interlemmas's military, we're saying, I'm not surprised to hear that. That's something some people have been writing about for a while, you know, Bitcoin and nation state competition. This is, there's a number of different layers there. And I think any country that really does some like soul searching will look at their ballot sheet or look at their like sort of strategic alignment or lack thereof or their place in the world and say, I think this would be a lot better if we had a little Bitcoin. And so I don't know. They're not all there yet, but I think there's probably way more people than there were 12, 18 months ago.

I mean, barely a year ago. And I think we're seeing the public part of this. Imagine the behind the scenes, closed door, pounding the table, like, hey, you need to put this on your political platform as a party or as a candidate. it or you need to put this on your ballot sheet. Hey, look what the U.S. is doing. Hey, look what these other countries are doing. Freaking steak is doing it, you know? So I think you're on to it.

Beautiful. And quickly, too, I guess, want to get your guys' take on this. And Boy, it'll start with you. Then I'll come to Joe. In terms of governments adopting Bitcoin, good thing or bad thing. Is it more government's going to get its hands around Bitcoin or maybe Bitcoin's going to a Trojan horse the government. Boy, it'll start with you. I'm an eternal optimist by nature.

So I'm going to say good for the world. even though I see the risk, the downside, I do believe very deeply that there's no way any government could single-handedly directly influence Bitcoin in a way that is extremely detrimental. At least I have a hard time seeing how that could happen, given how decentralized it is, and how many different actors around the world with billions of dollars invested in this are invested in its success and would fight any attempt to usurp, control and I don't see how it could happen. I think there's a couple things on this bigger on this topic around nation states. So first of all I read a statistic the other day that there's evidence that 15 nation states have started stacking and we could name some of them we already know about El Salvador, Bhutan, U.S. supposedly China has some from, you know, seizures. We know the UAE through sovereign wealth funds. So we know Pakistan is now wanting to do.

We just heard about that. So 15 nations say it's not surprising. Another thing I'd like to say, it kind of goes back to your point, Nathan, about, you know, would it be more in the best interests of nations that have substantial energy? I don't really see it that way.

I think if you do, there's a path for you to be a sort of a player on the mining side, and that's what a lot of countries are doing right now. But Bitcoin is just the best money the world has ever seen. And if it is the best money the world has ever seen, okay, there's about seven or eight countries in the world that use

the U.S. dollar as legal tender. Then there's about a... I forget the data, but it's something like 70 or 80 countries in the world where U.S. dollars are regularly circulating as a means of exchange and daily commerce. All right. We all know if

the debt ceiling is raised, whether it is or not, we know where this... We know where the train has left the station. We know what's happening. They're going to keep printing money. They're going to keep debasing the currency. We also know throughout history, thanks to Seifedine and many others who've been sort of, you know, pioneering the thought leadership in the space in Bitcoin for many years, that throughout history, the countries that adopt the soundest, strongest money are the strongest economies and the strongest countries that come out on top. well if bitcoin is the soundest smartest best money the world has ever seen and may ever see

then every country is in their best interest to acquire bitcoin and you know if you do this game theory out which i've done a lot because i'd like to do this kind of stuff like even in my book bitcoin singularity i sort of project out through 2050 and how i think this will unfold i could see that there's going to be like an economic war for the best money basically as U.S. dollar becomes increasingly obvious that it's not. And what you could see is some nations embracing Bitcoin and some nations embracing gold. Anything else they try to do will just die fast. Okay, now let's think about this.

If you put a battle of gold and Bitcoin together from a nation state perspective, over what period of time would it take before the Bitcoin nations are the superior winners? and the gold ones have to capitulate and adopt Bitcoin, although by that point, it will be so expensive and hard to stack. They will end up being third world countries, even if it was China-level first world country before this battle unfolded. So in my opinion, that is going to happen. You are going to have countries that have major investments in gold or don't want to align with the U.S. because of political reasons or whatever. And if the U.S. is aligning to Bitcoin, they're going to choose the gold path. But the difference is Bitcoin is absolutely scarce and gold is not.

And so we know what happens when an absolutely scarce and a less scarce asset go head to head. We know which one wins. So in my opinion, all countries are gradually at some point over time going to figure out they need to move to sound money. And the smartest ones move to Bitcoin and the ones that do will win, whether they have the energy reserves to be a miner or not. Interesting. Yeah, it's gold versus silver all over again. I'll pass it to Joe quick and then we'll take a quick message from sponsor. So Joe, your thoughts, government adoption, good, bad, and Boyd threw a lot out there, man. How do you see it playing out? Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with Boyd. I think the purpose of money is to be the most saleable, most wanted good on the market that's easily tradable. And that's a for the most part, a winner take all market.

And so if you end up choosing the wrong money, well, that's a bad decision, whether you're an individual, a corporation, or government. And it's, you know, it's kind of funny because it's like some people will say, oh, well, Bitcoin is nothing more than a greater full theory. You're hoping that you exchange your Bitcoin for something else in the future. Of course, that's the purpose of money in itself. But greater full theory is actually the other inferior monies, whether that's the dollar, the end, the euro, the gold, silver, or whatever else. And it's like if the entire purpose is to converge on one best tool, well, you better hope that you can convince someone else to buy your second best tool.

If it's less scarce, less portable, less durable, et cetera. on the topic of governments, you know, adopting Bitcoin as a strategic reserve or just embracing it overall, whether that's good or bad, I don't think it necessarily matters what we decide, right? Like, if Bitcoin is the best form of money, it has the best monetary properties, they're probably going to be adopting it no matter what I think or what anyone really thinks. And so we're probably just going to have to watch it play out and see what happens rather than, you know, say like, oh, this is going to be good or this is going to be bad. Overall, if I had to narrow it down, I would say it's still going to be good. Like Boyd said, I'm a natural optimist. And I think that right now it's not healthy that countries have this endless money printer to do whatever they want, whether it's to fund war or unnecessary programs that

are not needed. It's good to have some discipline and some balance to limiting the size of government. And I think sound money does exactly that. So yeah, I agree with a lot of what Boyd said. Beautiful, beautiful. I got to say, yeah, I'm very optimistic that wherever Bitcoin goes, it sneaks in some freedom there with it. But with that, guys, I'm going to put a bow on this topic. We're going to take a quick break for sponsors.

When we come back, we already hinted at it a little bit earlier, too, but we're going to dive into Joe's reason for being bullish. Stay right with us. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile, Aqua Wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full content. control of your Bitcoin with secure cell custody. Aqua also supports lightning and liquid network, making fast, cheap Bitcoin payments and asset transfers easier than ever. Plus, it even supports stable coins giving you ultimate flexibility. Build on open source code, Aqua is transparent, trustworthy, and perfect for beginner and pros alike. Ready to upgrade your Bitcoin experience?

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We'll see if we can help you out. And if you need some additional custody help too, I know that Joe could also give you a hand there as well. So with that, we're going to keep things rolling along here. Joe, I'm going to throw the same question that everybody else gets. And I know there's a lot to talk about. Joe, why are you bullish? Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the main reasons why I'm bullish right now is the Bitcoin Treasury company

phenomenon that's going on. I think looking back at previous cycles, specifically like the 2021 top, I think part of the reason why Bitcoin just peaked and it didn't go up much further is because we had so much monetary stimulus and the market was relatively confused. They were buying alt coins. They were buying NFTs. They were buying Game stock before it adopted Bitcoin meme stocks. They were buying Mags, you know, the Mag 7. They were buying every, every time. tech stock under the moon. There was just a lot of supply for speculative capital that was kind of just getting absorbed by the market through all of those different entities. Whereas now, I think this cycle, we have an interesting phenomenon occurring where we have these Bitcoin treasury

companies to where obviously some people have recognized that Bitcoin is as a superior monetary tool and they're just buying directly into Bitcoin, which is great. And obviously, I think everyone should do that. But there's also this more speculative group of people or capital that's out there searching for something a little more volatile, something that might 10x in a short amount of time. And historically, that may have been alt coins, like actual altcoins, but this cycle, it seems to be like Bitcoin treasury companies. And I think what's really interesting about the Bitcoin treasury company phenomenon is whenever these companies traded a premium over their net asset value, which is almost every one of them at this point,

all that they do is issue additional equity and buy more Bitcoin. And so with this phenomenon that's occurring, even the speculative capital that's kind of avoiding Bitcoin at first ends up getting redirected into Bitcoin because that's exactly what these Bitcoin Treasury companies are doing. And so I think it's like a really interesting phenomenon that actually kind of reminds me of the 2017 bull market to where, from what I remember at least, people would find alt coins that they may want to buy on some random crypto exchange. But if you lived in America, you would have to buy Bitcoin first on Coinbase. You buy Bitcoin on Coinbase, then you send

the Bitcoin to another crypto exchange, and then you buy the altcoin. And so back in 2017, the same kind of concept was occurring to where speculative demand for crypto tokens kind of still redirected into Bitcoin at first, and then into the altcoins bidding the price of Bitcoin. Now we kind of have a very similar dynamic occurring, except first capital flows into the Bitcoin Treasury companies, and then the Bitcoin Treasury companies use that capital or their premium to then buy more Bitcoin. So I think that's like a really interesting phenomenon that's going to keep occurring as long as these Bitcoin Treasury companies keep trading at a premium.

The second thing that I kind of want to mention that is another reason why I'm bullish, that I think a lot of even Bitcoiners are kind of discounting may actually occur is the Bitcoin Act by Senator Senthi Olmos. I think most people probably feel like that's more unlikely than likely, even in the Bitcoin space. I kind of disagree. I think that if Bitcoin continues increasing in purchasing power and like say it goes to 125 or 150 later this year, we have some momentum.

Like someone mentioned on this call, like Congress and senators and just people in government, they're just individual people at the end of the day. They are going to feel the same sense of fear and greed that all individuals feel. And we're at a time when the national debt is going crazy, Bitcoin would be soaring at the exact same time. That might create like an interesting incentive to where they're like, oh my gosh, like we need to do something to protect our monetary sovereignty as a nation. It would be very bad if the United States abused the money printer for so long that it

became ineffective. And if that's going to happen at some point, we might as well hedge our bet with the Bitcoin Act, which actually, you know, would enable the U.S. to accumulate Bitcoin in a budget neutral framework by revaluing the gold. And, you know, so we're not necessarily adding to the national debt. We're accumulating a sizable Bitcoin position. And I think it could actually, you know, happen. I think if that actually does happen, we could be really off to the races for what's to come. Man, you're absolutely kind of right on that as well, too, because even myself, as I kind of wrote it off as like, yeah, it'd be great, but it's not going to happen. I've kind of discounted one, but even everything that's happened so far I wrote off previously

is like not really going to happen. So maybe I should be giving that more credit than I currently am. And one thing on Senator Lummis on her positions as well, too, that I found really fascinating was I think it was last week a little bit earlier when she talked about no cap gains on de minimis amount. That for me was like the big standout, even going calling back to Boyd's comments on medium of exchange in the sense that I know there's a lot of people that, I know there's a lot of people that were kind of, you know, bummed out. You only said like $600. And I thought that was completely missing the point.

Like the distance between zero and one is what's most important. If you can just make it so that that's an acceptable idea, we can adjust that level later on. And then from there, small retailers, online stores have everyone who's doing normally transactions, even GameStop. You're selling digital games online. You have every incentive now and no reason not to to just set up your square terminal and have a little Bitcoin QR code and get it there as well. well too. Before I let the other guys jump in, though, Joe, I'm curious if you've had a chance to even take a look at what Jack Mallors is doing with 21 for another Bitcoin Treasury company there. And if you have any initial thoughts kind of on that. Yeah, I mean, I think he's

capitalizing on the same trend that all the other Bitcoin treasury companies are capitalizing. One thing I guess it's interesting in particular with 21 is the people that are backing that company, right? You have Tether and Cantor Fitzgerald, which Tether is an absolute behemoth. they own billions and billions, hundreds of billions of dollars of U.S. Treasuries, which is massive. And then you have Cantor Fitzgerald, which is Howard Lutnik's company. And he's now Secretary of the Commerce, which I believe reports directly to President Trump. And he also has the ability per the executive order to accumulate Bitcoin in the strategic reserve today in a budget neutral framework. So, yeah, I mean, I think like the dominoes are lining up. And a certain point,

they start falling and price starts rising and it really just becomes a positive, reflexive feedback loop that could get absolutely insane. Yeah, completely agree. Boyd, I'll start with you on this one. What are your thoughts? And then Steve, it'll come to you. I agree with Joe on both fronts. I also am bullish and believe that the Bitcoin Act will get passed somehow.

I'm not exactly sure in what form. In Congress, it'll get watered down or maybe be altered. I think the U.S. is going to start stacking this year, and I agree with Joe, it's going to be crazy time when that happens in terms of price action and FOMO from other nation states. And it will sort of further endorse any U.S. state, which we haven't even mentioned yet, that that's exciting too, that states are starting to pass their own SBRs, etc. On the corporate adoption through treasuries, I'm also very bullish. And I know some of your listeners are kind of hardcore Bitcoin maxis who are probably annoyed at this whole conversation that we're like, you know, supporting government adoption from the nation state level. Now we're like pro-corporated stake and shit. What happened to like fight the power and the whole, you know, anarchist sort of cypher punting?

But, you know, one of my, and I'll come back to this point about corporate treasuries, but I think this point is worth reinforcing to that audience, which, you know, I came to Bitcoin. coin partially through that kind of philosophy of really realizing how much the fiat economy has destroyed the middle class and how we need to fight back and you know reflecting on what happened with the occupying movement so i'm very empathetic to that logic but what i think those that community is missing is again when you game theory this out imagine that and okay let's do this real quick a scenario you. We have the one we have now, so we don't have to rehash that. Like a crazy adoption at the government level, national, state level, like beyond our dreams in 2025. Okay, what's the alternative? The war against crypto gets ratcheted up to the point that not just the U.S.,

the U.S. puts pressure on their allies and others to basically make it illegal for any individual or company to transact in, hold, or do anything with Bitcoin. Because you could totally see that happening. They're either going to see Bitcoin as their friend or their enemy. And if they see it as their enemy, you're their enemy if you're trying to use it. And I could totally see country. I mean this. I could see countries implementing capital punishment in that scenario for anyone engaging

and transacting with using Bitcoin because it's this evil, like disruptive, anti-government, anarchists, like, you know. perceived thing. So we had two options. We go down that path, which is pretty damn ugly. Or we go down the path of saying, okay, the Bitcoin is going to gradually kind of weave its way into all of our systems so that no one could say no anymore. And that's exactly what's happening. You look at that famous quote from Hayek, which basically says the only way that this is ever going to get fixed is somehow through some subversive mean, a full. of money is brought to the world that isn't done through arms but just like gets weaved into the ecosystems in ways that no one can fight it that's exactly what what's happening right now that's what we're witnessing so now on the corporate treasury real quick because it's in that line of thinking that hey this is just part of where the world has to go because the alternative is way worse i'm as bullish as joe on it i think there's you know i've been tracking this a lot i have a whole chapter on in my book

I'd like to say there's sort of three types of corporate treasuries right now. There's like the full business model, which is like a business is sort of Bitcoin native or adjacent that is generating Bitcoin from its commercial activity. And portion of that Bitcoin is being put into their treasury. You have a second kind, which right now, and it really upset a lot of hardcore Bitcoiners because they were way more optimistic than they should have been about GameStop, who felt that GameStop. was going to go all in, but they didn't. I never felt they would because they never said anything. Like, if you really get it, if it's in your veins like it is in sailors, you're not going to be quiet for two months after raising a billion and a half dollars,

say nothing, and then come out with like a whimper. So my point is that's a second kind of treasury company, which is like, you know what, this is a hedge against the basement, probably worth having, which is basically what Ryan Cohen said. Like, well, you know, if the thesis plays. out is probably a good idea to have some well okay he's not a big corner we know that then the third one is sailor maller um semler although sembler's kind of unique in that they're still very focused on their core trad business as well sailors is less so muller is the thing i love about

muller's vision around 21 and you also forgot to mention joe soft bank they're also yeah the thing which they're crazy and also it gives the internet national capital market access. But, you know, what I love about Mueller's strategy is that it's a native Bitcoin treasury company without any traditional legacy business that they have to figure out how to manage. They're building this from Ground One as a Bitcoin treasury company with the ambition of creating a lot of native Bitcoin business models, financing, lending, whatever, on top of it. So kind of like a blend of what fold is doing with what strategy is doing.

And I've said this recently. I'm engaging in dialogue around Bitcoin treasury companies around the world. And if I ever was involved in leading one or whatever, I would go to Mueller strategy. Like build a Bitcoin treasury company natively and add native Bitcoin business models on top. So I'm bullish on all of them, although I love the ones where either the Fold model or the Muller's model are my favorite. excellent excellent and i'm i'm kind of with you i'm any adoption i'm taking is good adoption in the sense that like i feel like that's how i get rothbard and mises into like the common consciousness so i'm totally fine with that government companies you go for it just you're going to do a little bit of

reading i think on the whole on the weekends there stephen there was tons of stuff there man i'm curious your thoughts on the corporate level adoption where it's going how you see devolving has the bitcoin policy institute had any conversations with businesses with corporate uh i thought you were going back we'll do that too with corporate level adoption that's not something we um not really like advice on or anything like that but uh man i mean you guys knocked it out of the park i don't know there's a ton more to add it like i think it's super bullish and they were going to see it a lot more of it and, you know, there's a lot of kind of first-miver advantage right now.

Joe touched on the, you know, a discount to NAV and some of that, some of that, that component. And maybe that'll, you know, maybe that'll continue. Maybe it won't. But, you know, I think smarter people than me are probably working on figuring that out. But I think we're going to see, you know, we're going to see this. I think we'll, I think we'll be shocked over the next 12 months, the number of companies that you're going to see start to adopt these types of strategies. I think there's going to be new ones.

I don't think we've figured it out yet. I think this is sort of the tip of the iceberg on creative ways that traditional financial institutions and other types of businesses are going to experiment with ways to use Bitcoin. I think one of those is the idea of BitBonds, which Andrew Hones did a key. keynote at our Bitcoin for America event in March, kind of laying the foundation for this idea. And when I first heard about it, I was like, that sounds a little out there, you know.

And but cool, like, great. Hey, you know, shoot your shot. And we started working on it. Some of the guys at BPI did a white paper on it. And now it's starting to, we're kind of like this. You know, there's people starting to kind of raise some eyebrows. And I think it makes a ton of sense now. I think, wow, you know, that's a brilliant idea.

So I think we're going to see a lot of those, those types of strategies be tested and tried. I don't think we're going to, I don't think, I think we're just getting started. I mean, I think we're just getting, we're really just getting started. No, I completely agree. And funny enough, too, I think that there's, there's something to the stake, stake model as well, too, that we might see more companies enter the space, especially if there's something like a digital product or digital service and then just pocketing that Bitcoin as their treasury. But I did steal your thunder a little bit there. the Bitcoin Act. Give me your thoughts on that. Yeah, well, Bitcoin Act, two things. One, Bitcoiners are just spoiled rotten with Senator Cynthia Lummus. I mean, it's hilarious how just unbelievable she is.

Most industry groups would cut off their left hand in order to have an advocate like her who's not only so passionate, but also so, just sophisticated, isiled in, intelligent, understands the technology, understands the industry inside and out, understands the Bitcoin network. She has a fantastic team of just sharp people

who are working on this. This isn't some, and I don't know if you guys have, how much people listening have dove into this, but like this is a very serious piece of legislation. It's gaining a ton of momentum and has been for quite some time.

Senators like Jim Justice, Senator Marcia Black, Blackburn, a number of co-signes on this bill on the Senate side and on the House side. And so we have a lot of momentum on this right now. And I don't think it's a nice to have. I don't think, oh, that would be cool if that'd be crazy. I think this is something we absolutely need to pass that has to be done. We have a massive advantage.

This was mentioned earlier. The U.S. has somewhere between 30 and 40% of Bitcoin that's owned by U.S. in U.S. hands, whether it's U.S. residents, companies, government. governments, whatever, 30% or 40% of all Bitcoin. Do you guys know, do you guys know having to know anyone, what percent of gold we have? No, not a clue. 10% Boyd, Boyd gets some extra credit. 10% of gold.

And so, yeah, we have a lot of gold. That's a lot of the gold to have 10% of the gold. We have 40% of Bitcoin. So we have a massive first mover advantage as a country on this. And we have to seize that and capitalize on that. long term, protect against some of the things, you know, that everyone is rightly concerned about. Obviously, Bitcoin was created for out of certain environments and for certain environments. That doesn't mean we want that environment in our country, right?

Like, I would prefer to live in a place where the government's like, sure, use self-custody. Yeah, go for it, man. Like, yeah, you know, non-custodial tools. Fantastic. I would prefer that over like having to, you know, deal with the opposite. And so I, you know, I want my, you know, kids and family to grow up in a place where with a government that's for that. I think everyone with a lick of common sense would.

And so I think you prepare for one reality, but you hope and push for it, you know, the other reality. And so I think we have that opportunity to do it right here with this bill. And with some of the, you know, whether it's, you know, like I just said, like self-custody, nustodial tools, regulatory clarity, all this sorts of things. And for the U.S. to say, yeah, I think it makes sense for us to have a lot more Bitcoin than we currently have. So we've got a season and press. Beautiful. I completely agree.

Excellent. Wonderful. That's an amazingly bullish point to end it on. So, guys, I'm going to wrap it up there. Thank you so much for joining me. Everyone watching, please go follow Boy, check out the Bitcoin Singularity, follow Stephen, follow the work of the Bitcoin Policy Institute, and make sure to check out if you haven't already, Mr. Joe Burnett

and everything that they're doing over at Unchained. I am Nathan with the BTC Sessions, and this is your daily session.