BTC Sessions - "Everything Changes in 5 Years" — Bitcoiners Must Prepare to Escape | Katie Ananina

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

Mentor Sessions Ep. 066: Bitcoiners Are Racing for the Exits, Germany Now Requires Military Approval to Leave the Country, and Why Bitcoin + Passport Portfolio Is Your Life-or-Death Survival Plan | Katie AnaninaWe're 18 years into the Fourth Turning. According to Katie Ananina, founder of Citizen X, that means the next 5 to 7 years will reshape borders, tax regimes, and individual sovereignty in ways most people aren't prepared for. In this conversation, Katie breaks down exactly who is leaving, where they're going, and why the window to act is narrowing fast. Whether you're a Bitcoiner protecting generational wealth, a high-net-worth individual seeking legal tax optimization, or simply someone who wants options — this is the roadmap. You'll learn which jurisdictions are actively welcoming Bitcoin wealth, what a real exit strategy looks like, and the specific mistakes people make when they wait too long to move.⏱️ Timestamps:0:00 - 18 Years Into the 4th Turning: Why Everything Changes in the Next 5–7 Years0:30 - Who’s Panicking & Racing for the Exits Right Now?1:18 - Germany, France & UK: The Countries Losing Sleep2:54 - Normies Want to Move to Canada… Bitcoiners Say No3:24 - $100K African Passports: Sierra Leone, Botswana & the New Plan B4:23 - Why Bitcoiners Want “Blood Diamond” Passports from Sierra Leone5:49 - The Genius Logic Behind Low-Profile “Invisible” Passports6:08 - Ancestry Passports: Poland, Egypt, Cambodia & How Far Back You Can Go8:49 - Germany Just Activated Pre-Mobilization & Draft Prep10:00 - Why You May Soon Need Military Approval to Leave Germany13:24 - Suicidal Empathy: Germany’s Generational Guilt Is Cracking15:23 - France, UK & the Coming Social Unrest18:00 - BTC Mentor: Personalized 1-on-1 Bitcoin Guidance19:41 - The 4th Turning Fully Explained (1929–1945 vs 2008–2026)23:09 - Bitcoin + Passport Portfolio: The ONLY Two Assets That Survive Crisis25:37 - Is Dubai Still Safe? The Reality Check28:01 - Where Bitcoiners Are Actually Relocating Right Now30:54 - How to Move to El Salvador (6-Week Test Trip + Residency Guide)34:18 - Honest Concerns About El Salvador, Bukele & the IMF37:44 - Best Places in El Salvador for Bitcoin Families40:12 - Costa Rica vs El Salvador: Which Is Better for Bitcoiners?41:59 - Hidden 4th Turning Winners: Poland & Czech Republic51:55 - Final Advice: Build Your Passport Portfolio Before You Need It56:53 - How to Work With Katie Ananina & CitizenX (Free Strategy Call) 🔗 Links & Resources:About Katie, CMO at Citizen X• Website: https://citizenx.com/?ref=BTCmentors• Twitter: https://x.com/PlanBpassportBitcoin + Privacy + Security: https://btcmentor.io/untouchable-bitcoiner/Bitcoin Survival Workshop: https://btcmentor.io/bitcoin-survival-workshop-2026/📌 Previous Episodes: Simon Dixon → https://youtu.be/ZWUGS92Dv8UBitcoiner Privacy & Personal Security → https://youtu.be/RD5FyX4cmBs⚡ POWERED by Abundant Mines: Fully managed Bitcoin mining. Learn more at https://qrco.de/bgYKPB🔒 Lockdown your Bitcoin with the BEST gear on the market from Coinkite. Get the 5% Off the COLDCARD visit: https://qrco.de/bfiDBV💡BOOK Private Sessions with Nathan, Gary, or Ben at Bitcoin Mentor: Master self-custody, hardware, multisig, Lightning, privacy, and more. 👉 Visit btcmentor.io Follow Us on X:• BTC Sessions: @BTCsessions• Nathan: @theBTCmentor• Gary: @GaryLeeNYC#Bitcoin #BTC #BTCSessions #SecondPassport #JurisdictionalArbitrage #ExitStrategy #CitizenX #KatieAnanina#BitcoinPrivacy #Sovereignty #HighNetWorth #FlagTheory #BitcoinLifestyle #FourthTurning #GlobalMobility

for 18 years into the 4th 30, meaning that in the next 5 to 7 years, everything is going to change. Who's panicking and racing for the exits right now? Germany, France, and UK. If you want to leave Germany for more than three months, you have to send a request into the military department. The previous 4th30 was from 1929 to 1945. It's like the highest unemployment, all of this mess culminating with the World War II. And after that, we have a completely. completely different game board. I think EU is going to look completely different. Relocating out of necessity is like a third major crisis for human life. The two things that you have to help is Bitcoin and the passport portfolio.

Well, Katie, we really appreciate you being here. I know that I'm even, you know, these days with the world so stable and everything going fine, I'm really not sure why we have you here. I apologize. Watching any good movies lately? Yeah, a waste of time. What a waste of time with the geopolitical crisis hitting literally every continent of the world right now. Not sure why people would want to hear about optionality when it comes to jurisdictional arbitrage. What are you going to do? But I do have a real question for you. For the non-Bitcoin people in the world who seem to want to make their plans to escape and get out,

are you hearing anything from them? What jurisdictions are they trying to leave? What are they considering going to? I don't know if you even kind of parse it out the Bitcorners and non-Bit-corner's, but you must have a sense for that. What are the Normies doing? Definitely.

So it's interesting how my audience is very much Bitcoin heavy these days. But once in a while, I'll get somebody who's like, I need to, like, Trump is destroying our. country, I want to go to Canada. What? I mean, yeah, a lot of people are unhappy with the U.S. but when I hear somebody saying, I want to move to Canada, that surprises me for sure.

Because I understand why Canadians would stay there still, like, being settled at home with family nearby. That worse a lot. but moving there actively at this point of time sounds interesting, interesting. Well, hey, you know, Nate, you can enjoy more people who will ruin your country. Perfect. I'll get the Americans who want to come out of there and come to Canada. I can't believe that anybody would actually come to Canada at this point in time,

but I guess it makes sense because even like if I look at the normie culture that we have here, they largely still don't see what's going on. And like I talked to Ben and the boys about this, and it becomes so incredibly frustrating. And it's funny that, you know, the U.S. clients would reference Trump because we get the same sort of thing here in Canada where they're looking at Trump as they very, very skillfully put them up as a boogeyman to direct the Canadian population to do whatever the hell they want. And it's working. Okay. So most of the people are coming in for Bitcoin. We had a few that are trying to escape the U.S. to Canada. I'd rather go the other direction right now. What are the top jurisdictions kind of overall that you're seeing that are really causing alarm for people that they're at the point now where they need to reach out, start to make plans, figure out how they're going to get out. Yeah, well, a few things that have changed over the last year or so since the last talk. So many new jurisdictions showed up on the market that are extremely affordable in their African jurisdictions. And while none of these clients would actually move to Africa, they truly see that as a plenary passport. They're never planning to visit that country.

They're just getting the second set of documents in case something like military conscription stuff. in their whole country. So they just want a second set of documents to be able to cross borders when somebody, some three-letter agency, revokes their passport. And those who are talking like 100 grand for a family of four

and all of you get a passport. So it's like way more affordable than anything else on the market. It's countries like Sierra Leone, Saute Ome, Botswana is coming out too. Wait, wait. Sierra Leone, the movie that inspired Blood Diamond, or the country that inspired

the movie Blood Diamond. That's the country where people want to go. Well, they don't actually go there. They just want to have that affordable passport from there. What world are we living in? Because I grew up in the 80s where we just thought of Africa as like, oh, it's just live aid. Everybody's poor. And they

desperately need our help. And this is never a place you want to go. And now I guess we live in a bit of a topsy tour every world. This is Sierra Leone and a couple of the places you mentioned. I would never my life of a thought of these to be attractive places to live? Well, see it from a different perspective. Is your country a major player in the world geopolitics?

Yes. What if you had a passport from somebody, from a country that nobody's going to really care about when you cross borders? Yes. You cross a border with like Sautau and my passport. Nobody really ever heard about this country. You don't seem like a threat. You're fine.

So, yeah, that's the logic behind it. Obviously, nobody is yet moving to Africa. I think we are a few decades away from them becoming a major player in world trade and geopolitics. So that's one. Obviously, Latin America is still booming. Yes, there was some internal crisis in Mexico, Venezuela, but that's been going on for years. But the rest of the continent is doing pretty well. well, expots are loving it, great weather, same time zone as the rest of America.

So pretty solid option for specifically relocation. So we're still looking a lot at this region. Well, I have heard that argument you've made from a couple other people about wanting to go to someplace that nobody's paying attention to. So yeah, we don't care about that country. They're kind of off the grid. They're not between the major players here. And I've thought about it personally for me, for my kids especially, because their background

You know, there's Egyptian on my father's side and also Polish and Russian on my mother's side, but that's several generations gone. I'm never going to be able to get a passport for that. But my dad, he actually is from Egypt. I thought about Egypt. And I'm like, no, that's going to be like, you know, World War III Central for the coming religious war. Like, I don't need my kids there. But on their mother's side, it's Cambodian. And I thought, well, that seems out of the way. Is that maybe a place that just nobody's going to give a crap about them and they can go hide? I'm really glad you brought that up because I have a mission to tell everybody. If you are eligible for any second, third, force passport, you should most likely get it.

Because if Egypt becomes part of the geopolitical crisis, you are not there. The military requirements are usually residency-based. So a second passport is still a second passport. You don't have to use it at the time. You just put it in a safe. You make sure that this nationality keeps running in your family and your lineage. You keep this optionality going for your kids and their kids. So if you can put your hands on Egyptian, Cambodian and Polish passport,

you should totally do that. How far back is Polish? The Polish are my great-grandparents and the Russian same thing. That's not going to fly. It's too far removed. I already have any documents. Well, we're the one finding your documents, so you don't have to really deal with that. We're pretty much serious.

But they were Jews. I think you burned the documents. Yeah, it's actually, it's a good point. No, it's true. So we do a lot of citizenship by descent. We do a lot of genealogical research and then actually finding those documents to confirm that they were born or residing in the country at the time. And it is much harder for Jewish. lineages to find those documents because they're either in some private archives, like they're

not in state archives because some guy just decided to collect all the documents and keep them safe and move them to America on the ship. So it's much harder to find those records, but still doable. So I would look into that great-grandparents is not that far. Poland allows two, three, four generations back. I didn't realize that. Okay. Thank you, Katie. Good info. Sorry to Hognate. I decide personal family. She's here. Let me ask the question. So Gary gets to escape, but it looks like I'm kind of screwed stuck here in Canada, which we'll explore in a second as well too. I do want to just pause them at those. So Katie, are you telling me that most of the clients are still coming from? Is it U.S. residents that are looking

to escape? Or have we seen any uptick in like my immediate thoughts are like if I was like, I'm in Canada. The fact that I'm still here shocks me. But if I was in the UK, I feel like that's getting way worse in terms of regulatory oversight and just losses of privacy and control. It feels very Orwellian at the moment. And even seen the same thing with things like Australia, they're talking about the unrealized capital gains. So it feels like the Commonwealth just sucks. But where are you seeing the inflow of curiosity of customers? Who's panicking and racing for the exits right now? Germany, France, and UK.

Germany. Why Germany? Well, they just started this kind of like remobilization kind of thing. Okay, so basically they said every male citizen between ages 17 and 45 must go through the like the medical testing questionnaire to determine how fit they are for the military. Nathan, I've seen this movie before. Exactly. Exactly. So they do that. And then like that's a first step. And then if you want to leave Germany for more than three months, you have to get, you have to send a request.

request into the military department and get an approval for your trip. Whoa. And it's like, why do I have to ask if I have to live the country for more than three months? That sounds pretty weird. I don't think many people actually do it, but it is a requirement. That's very concerning because, yeah, we're seeing little hints of the draft because I forgot about that one. You're absolutely right.

There's the U.S. They're talking about it as well, too. I feel there's a concern for draft again in the U.S. And I'm even just trying to wrap my head around. Do you have any thoughts on why Germany is doing this at this point? in time. I don't see a ground invasion on Germany, but I'm not sure what I'm necessarily missing from the geopolitical chessboard. Well, just to give you an idea, like Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are convinced that Russia is about to attack them. Okay. They are absolutely sold on the

idea that Putin is trying to literally have the entire land of Europe to himself and he's going attack everybody for no reason. Like, this is the belief that is happening in the country. And, like, they're preparing for nuclear things, too. Germany is not far behind that.

And considering, I mean, considering how much socialism that they have been spreading, like, literally inviting everybody to leave off of their taxes, like, for free, that's my blowing. I do have some people

who, exactly, who's the one who's paying for that. So that is very noticeable. Even the people who do leave off of those social securities, even they realize that's not sustainable. Like for example, there is a big Ukrainian population

that moved from war zone to Germany and they're currently being provided with free rentals, insurance, some medical help, some food stamps, etc. But they're from like Soviet country, right? Like they've seen socialism before.

And they're sitting there getting all this benefits and realizing like, this is going to be a disaster. They know. They know where it leads to. So yeah, that's happening in Germany. That's people starting to wake up. And there's been a lot of propaganda. And Lena, Lena Sish from who lives in Los Adoro right now, she talks really well about it. how few German generations have been raised on the fact that they were the bad guys.

And that they were behind the World War II. And now they have to be apologetic about everything. And they have to help every victim in the world to kind of redeem themselves. And it's like, this generation was not involved in the World War II. They do not have to apologize. guys, this does not run in your blood. You don't have to. So that's basically how they've been raised.

That's what they know. They still want to save everybody because they feel guilty. And this guilt is running out, thankfully, and people are starting to wake up and realize that they're destroying their own country. It's a suicidal empathy, right? This idea of suicidal empathy. It's too bad we don't have like a Russian on the call to maybe ask their thoughts on whether or not Russia would potentially do this?

Do you have any communication still home? Do you share that view that Putin is looking to be expanded? I'd be remiss if I didn't ask. I mean, I obviously don't have a crystal ball and I'm not as cut up on Russian politics this day as you would expect. But I do not see why in the world Putin would be interested in Latvian, in Estonia.

I mean, we had them before. It's old news. No, I completely agree. I don't think, I think that the war in Ukraine just centers around NATO expansion. I don't see him as necessarily looking to take over Europe. But if nothing else, it's a powerful narrative that they can use to drive any sort of social or regulatory policies they want to have in those regions. So I'm with you. I'm kind of naturally skeptic, but not necessarily well versed on it.

So then taking a quick look. So Germany, very interesting, didn't expect that to see that come up on the list. The UK and France, I necessarily would have. is either what's going on for the people in the UK and France that they're looking to get out. And I'm wondering if any of it has to do with social unrest as well too. Because that's what I view is maybe more the larger risk on the horizon is not necessarily even these geopolitical conflicts,

but the resulting social unrest you might have at home from higher food prices, from declining economic activity, these sort of things and populism. Well, in the UK, it doesn't feel like... It feels like people just leave. That's it. Like those unhappy just leave and the rest is just suck it up and think that that's fine. In France, I tend to realize these days that the generational psychology plays a big role.

Like, there's a reason we have this feeling of belonging to a certain culture that runs with us. So French are naturally into protests. Like, that's been centuries and centuries of that. Yeah. And it still runs in their blood. So I do expect some social unrest in France taking place soon enough. I was thinking if the Olympics, they had Olympics a few years ago, that actually Olympic games hosted in your country keeps the morale up for sure. Like it gives people excitement.

They see money flowing in. After Olympics, there is this high because everybody made money off of all this tourists. So many new things gotten built. So many things gotten cleaned up. So there is this high that they've been writing. And usually it's like two, three years post-Olympics when it's like, whoa, we are dipping again. So the bear market is happening. And I think it might trigger some social unrest soon.

So Katie, just thinking notes, we want circuses along with the bread. That's right. Gotcha. Okay. And you know, we're having Olympics in a couple years in the U.S. In L.A. Yay. Lots of money built on stadiums that never be used again.

Cool. All right. Good way. Katie. Yeah, I guess I'm wondering and I guess I got two things. And Nathan, I was wondering, you brought up why they'd be coming back, you know, in Germany, why they're talking about. militarization. I mean, I would assume some of it has to do with a threat for America to leave NATO

and a lot of these countries feeling like, well, we got to take care of ourselves here. I think I saw Japan making some sort of alliance with Germany recently. I was like, oh, everything old is new again. So I assume, does that have anything to do with it, Katie? Are you hearing anything from people in those countries thinking, well, you know, America's not going to defend us anymore and now there's threats to us? I'm sure there is a better person to comment on that. All my fields on geopolitical, I get from my clients. So I jump on this one-on-one calls and I hear it from people.

So like this further macro alignments and what's going on in the chess board. Like I keep track of it somewhat by going through Twitter feed. I absolutely stay away from traditional mainstream news. So I can't comment on that at all. All I do is just talk to people on the ground and see why they want to escape on what's their feeling about the country. So I'm not sure what's happening on a larger game board. When I first got into Bitcoin, I was overwhelmed. The jargon, the security risks, the fear that one mistake could cost everything.

I remember staring at my screen and wondering, are my keys safe? Did I do this right? That experience is why I started BTC sessions. For over a decade, this channel has helped millions of people like you learn how to use and secure Bitcoin. But I realized something. For many people, videos aren't enough. Everyone learns differently. Some need to ask questions in real time as an expert walks through their setup, their goals, and their threat model. And certain things like advanced cold storage, inheritance planning, privacy, and node or mining setups often can't be fully solved by

watching another tutorial. So I built BTC mentor. I recruited the best Bitcoin educators on the planet, to work with you one-on-one. Real experts, real answers, personalized hands-on guidance, tailored to your exact situation. Whether you're brand new or building a complex setup, we meet you where you're at and walk with you step by step. By the end, you don't just hope your Bitcoin is safe. You know it is. If you're ready for that level of confidence, then head to btcmentor.io and book a call with us today. Gotcha. Well, the only thing I know about the world is I'm reading the New York Times. That's it. That's all for me. But I do have a larger question. We've talked about how much the world is shifting. And it's definitely not this unipolar world post-Cold War where, you know, America sets that board and everybody just kind of stays in their place. So, you know, we've talked before about, hey, maybe wanting to go to El Salvador or any other number of countries that seemed very appealing to Bitcoiners. But I wonder, are those countries going to be the ideal ones to, to look at four or five years down the road. And what would you, do you have any advice for a Bitcoin or anybody else who says to himself,

well, I don't know if I want to splurge that 100 grand or a whole Bitcoin or a couple hundred thousand dollars on a passport to a country that may not be the best place to go in four or five years? Is there something you'd recommend them doing just generally to be ready to go as those things shift and the board shift so they can be a little more dynamic in their choices? You just threw me such an easy ball. to you without even realizing it. Perfect.

It's really funny. So I just, I was just a bit of a boom conference and my entire presentation was on getting through the fourth turning, right? Are you guys familiar with the concept? Yes, but just in case, could give us a quick rundown for the audience as well? Yeah. So the basic idea is history moves and cycles. Usually it's around 80, 200, 105 years that takes the entire cycle.

And the cycle is separated in four stages. The high. Think about 1950s America. So institutions are strong. The global reserves in US dollars. Employments are very low. There's this unity between people. There's like very common enemy, the Soviets, right?

So it's like this United States. of America, funny. Very good, financial, et cetera. Then there is a awakening when people start questioning things. Is everything actually the way we think it is? Then there is unraveling. That's where the media starts going different directions. That's where we're getting into our own tribes,

getting further and further from the center of the politics. The institutions are losing their power. the money, the inflation is rising. And then there's the crisis, a.k.a. the fourth turning. And this fourth turning usually takes about 25 years. So the previous fourth turning was from 1929 to 1945. And if you look at this times,

it's like the highest unemployment, like all of this mess culminating with the World War II. and after that we have a completely different game board. Everything changed over the last five, seven years of the culmination of this fourth turning. And well, guess what? The last fourth earning, the current one, started in 2008.

This is kind of agreed upon that in 2008, we started this process just like in 1929 with the financial crisis. Here we are again. And now in 2026, we're 18 years into, the fourth turning, meaning that in the next five to seven years, if you believe this theory, everything is going to

change. So, let's think who did well through the previous fourth turning. People who held gold, people who held money outside of government control, right? Because like, I mean, you look at many European countries, any government promises got wiped out

right there very quickly. So you had to help asset outside of government control or not attached to the government currency, and you had to have access to a safe jurisdiction. You had to have optionality. You have to have sovereignty of your assets and sovereignty of your geographical location. So fast forward, 100 years later, the two things that you have to help is Bitcoin and a passport portfolio, or at least a jurisdiction outside of the current geopolitical mess that you might be able to call home if you have to. So this is basically, I think, where we stand.

And obviously, not a single one of us can guess who's going to be on top seven years from now. Like, we can somewhat try and predict. We can see the directions and trends. But again, those last five, seven years of the fourth turning usually are absolute mess. And it's hard to see through this crisis. So the best you can do is hold backpointed and self-castity and try to stack some flags. Get second passport, get a residency outside of your home country,

build a tribe somewhere where you think it's going to be safe, have a bug out home. So all these things are really important to do. Makes sense. Thanks, Katie. And again, just Gary, like you mentioned, you might not be interested in Egypt today. seven years from now, you don't know who's going to be on top. You don't know if your ability to claim that citizenship is still going to be intact.

The borders might be completely redrawn. I mean, I might sound really pessimistic if we talk about redrawing the borders. But still, if we are talking about preparing for a big world crisis, this should be on your mind. Well, yeah, the borders could be very different. Maybe if I get an Egyptian passport in seven years, I'll be. sitting in greater Israel. So, yay. There you go. You're not wrong, Gary. But even on that note, too, even for me from a non-pessimistic standpoint, like that lines up with my hopes and thoughts about Alberta, right? That Canada's borders very well could be redrawn here. That's not outside the realm of

possibility we're making attempts to do so. And who knows where else may kind of come into play. I do want to dive more into like where Bitcoiners are congregating right now for that aspect of community. But I did want to briefly touch on, I'm curious your thoughts at the moment on Dubai. because we were talking about places to escape from. My understanding that it could be wrong is that a lot of the, you think Europe and UK has gone to Dubai for favorable tax reasons over the years. But of course, right now I saw a chart of the Dubai real estate, not looking so great, makes sense with all the conflict going on over there.

So it just speaks to that idea that where you go may be good today, but might not necessarily be the best optionality in the future. Any thoughts currently on areas like Dubai? Yeah, Dubai was definitely a hot spot for both single successful entrepreneurs and families, because it was very safe for a very long time. Right now, people are not that bullish, but the life on the ground has not changed much as of yet.

So they still feel quite okay being there. What they did realize is that Dubai will never become their Plan B passport. You can basically never have the UAE citizenship, no matter how long you leave there. there are a few exceptions like Pavel Doolrock, the Telegram founder, but it would be, it would have to be a really significant contribution financial. You also would have to switch to their religion if you're not Muslim. And like basically impossible. Just let's get it there.

Basically impossible for anybody to actually get naturalized and become a citizen of UAE. So what we see from those who just relocated there and been living on temporary permanent residences is that they realize, okay, I still want to stay here. But what I do need is a citizenship from a jurisdiction that still has low taxes. That is going to be my plan B option. So I don't have to go back to my socialist country if something happens in Dubai. So that's what we see within our clientele. Beautiful. All right.

So switching gears a little bit directly to the Bitcoinser perspective, the Bitcoiner Avenue, where in the world, and we can kind of talk about the, maybe the pros and cons of each as we go through the list, but where in the world are Bitcoiners relocating? And the reason I'm asking this is one, because people are directly asking me, which is interesting, as well as if I want to consider getting out, I think that community aspect is incredibly important, especially if like I've only, I think my son is fifth generation Calgarian. So like, I've never been anywhere else in the world. And so I'm always apprehensive about actually pulling up roots and going somewhere new.

It would be nice to have that cohesive tribe where I already know that we're aligned in values and kind of perspective. Yeah. And I think this is very right approach. Like staying in your place of residence where you really like your lifestyle and you feel that you belong is a great idea. Like I have three kids. We are quite rooted here. We have grandparents in walkable distance from us. like this works, it's very convenient, comfortable.

We're thriving here as a family. But we have a couple spots that are our plan B options for us, where we still love the people, love the lifestyle, love the culture, et cetera. So obviously El Salvador still comes to mind first. This is still the destination. And you can find any sort of lifestyle there. I've recently posted a really big article covering like transportation

education, education, medical system of El Salvador, specifically for families, not for, because there are a lot of single big winners. We just move to El Salvador because why not? But when you're moving with kids or literally parents, your considerations might be a little different. So I wrote the article from that perspective. And El Salvador is becoming more and more convenient for families. They actually have pretty good options for private schooling for like pennies on a dollar compared to United States of Canada. It's something like $6,000 a year for American or British or French or German private schools. So you have you have options there. Yeah.

You can find the beach lifestyle there with surfing every day. You have this golf courses with a private gated community for like luxury living. There is a big city with lots of traffic and lots of opportunities. So El Salvador being this small country, but making such huge swings in policy to attract Bitcoiners, it's working. And people really do like their life there. Costa Rica is definitely the destination. We'll see how things go in Argentina. Everybody is very curious and bullish in theory on how.

things are going to turn out in Argentina. But nobody's really pulling the trigger yet. Everybody's waiting to see if it sticks. So that's what I see. Interesting. All right. So going through kind of one at a time, if I'm a Bitcoiner in the U.S. or in Canada, what do I have to do?

How do I get to El Salvador? How do I make that work? That's what I, like my advice in the article was book a six-week trip. Because six weeks is not a vacation. It's a temporal relocation. You actually have to build out routines and figure out how this would potentially work if you were to stay.

So six weeks is this threshold that I really like for pre-relocation trip. It will allow you to do all the necessary research, try out different areas, figure out your diet, figure out your play dates and all these things. That would be my advice. And then from there, like six weeks,

you still doesn't require you to have any sort of immigration program going on. You can just be on a tourist visa for 90 days. So from there, you will be able to decide which immigration program works out for you. Are you just wanting a passport in case you need it? or do you actually decide that you're going to get the residency, which El Salvador just changed the policy. So now in order to keep your residency running, all you have to do is spend three months a year there.

So you get that residency. You come here as a, how do they call them something birds? Oh, snowbirds. Snowbirds. Yeah, you just come there during the winter or, I don't know, whatever. Surf for three months and you're good. If I wanted that El Salvador passport or like permanent residency, what are the requirements to do so? Different programs. So there's a passport program. That is a very premier program. One of the most expensive

programs in the world right now for $1 million, your whole family get citizenship in the matter of six weeks. I'm too poor. I'm definitely too poor for that. Yeah, it's very high check, high reward program. If you're just looking for residency, all you have to do is start a business in El Salvador, invest $10,000 a year into this business, and it qualifies you for the, how do they call it, business person, business person, basically. No, I'm trying to remember it in Spanish, but yeah, that's basically business owner's visa. There is also retired people visa, which is basically as long as you can prove that you have around $2,000 a month's income coming from outside of the country, you're welcome to stay. So it's not, yeah, it's not much of an investment if you just want a residency to call it home for three months a year or 12 months a year. A little detail on the business. And if you don't know the specifics of this, I'm not trying to put you on the spot, Katie, but in their requirements for starting a business there.

and like you said, invest $10,000 a year. Is it required to be a profitable business? Are there any restrictions on the type of business? Like, can I go down to El Salvador and start my only fan site? Like, what are we doing? You have a lot of freedom on that. Okay. Gary, there you go.

You can get to El Salvador and have your only feed site. That'll be absolutely beautiful. Nice. Still kind of touching on that as well, too, for El Salvador in particular, because that one is, of course, the hot topic for Bitcoiners that comes up often. Do you have any long-term concerns, reservations about it or things that people are maybe a little bit worried about in the medium or long term. So for example, for me, it's things like the IMF's involvement that puts up a bit of a

red flag for me. Of course, just to clarify, too, there is, as far as I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there is no like perfect place. Every place has its tradeoffs and you're trying to make the decision of what's most important, kind of that cost benefit analysis. So specifically with El Salvador, because it comes up so much, do you or any of the clients have any concerns around, say, like, the IMF's involvement or even, like, I believe Buceli still has emergency powers in play and kind of what happens after him. Is there any red flags or, like, things that people should be considering as well? Yeah, so a few things that I want to address there. First, people think that Buckelly is just calling the shots. They call him dictator and, like,

all the power in his hands. And while it is, like, he's definitely more powerful than most other presidents of the world in terms of decision making to the country which I don't think is a bad thing at all. If you want to move, if you want to make a change, you kind of have to be able to call the shots. It's like startup versus corporate,

right? And the corporate things move so slowly because there's like a line of command and a startup. It's like we are doing it, make it happen. So there's definitely this more independent decision making that comes from Buckele, but there's still lots and lots of checks and balances. And I know that because

I've been working with their immigration department trying to clarify on a few things, clarify on new programs coming out from there. And I realized that there's a lot of power that departments hold still and push back on whatever new ideas come from the top. So, yeah, the checks and balances are in place. place so I don't think it's going to be like he's going rogue and turning everything, I don't know. The other

thing is the IMF line of credit and things like that could be concerning in some way because we understand that who has skin in the game, we understand that if you have certain control over the country, you have certain power, but at the same

time, sometimes you have to like not look at this precise detail and look at the country's trajectory overall because you are trying to predict how your lifestyle is going to change in the next 10 years. You're trying to predict

how your kids' high school time is going to play out. And for that, you need to look at a bigger picture and see how things are changing. And that is an incredibly upward trajectory for El Salvador right now. Me coming there every year,

just seeing the change, like, that looks very promising. My parents visited for six weeks with us last year. They're obsessed. They're totally coming back this year for longer. And they've seen a lot of the world. They've traveled a lot, and they're like, so far, this is our literally favorite trip of our entire life. Oh, wow.

Okay. That's beautiful. That's good to note. And then just kind of a little curiosity on that, too. In terms of where, like, again, if I want to do get into that big, ecosystem. Are most people just like San Salvador or where do you're finding people kind of congregating? There's San Salvador. There is the suburbian city called, oh, now I'm blinking. I want to say Zupupon, but that's in Mexico actually. Zaragoza. Zaragoza is a suburbian city,

20 minutes from San Salvador. And there's a big gated community with really luxurious lifestyle, It was like restaurants and golf courts and tennis courts, pick a ball, paddle, whatever fake tennis you play, there's everything for you. Very good for kids too. So there's a big Brooklyn community in that city. And then the beach towns. El Zonte, El Tumco, pretty awesome. Coin Kite has been in the game for years, creating hands down the best and most secure hardware when it comes to securing your Bitcoin. The cold card Q is an absolute powerhouse and my daily driver, and it's ideal for

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What kind of is available to us? Is it just as expensive as El Salvador? Do I need a million bucks that I don't have? No. If you just want to relocate to anywhere in Latin America, it's very cheap. So relocating to El Salvador is cheap, relocating to Costa Rica. Costa Rica being lifestyle being the most expensive in Latin America. Really? Yeah. It's one of, maybe. I don't know, Chile. But, yeah, Costa Rica is definitely on the more expensive side. I recently met this couple from, they were from Guatemala. And they were telling me there is this joke that Central America is a broken family.

It's like a toxic family. And they had a role assigned for everybody. How like El Salvador is an uncle with guns and something, something. Well, it's an old joke. And then Costa Rica is that girl that got into American culture or something like this. Like the niece that is hanging out was Americans too much and things like that. So I thought it was funny. But yeah, in my opinion, Costa Rica is like a safe bet.

I don't expect it to change much in the next 20 years. I don't expect it to skyrocket in anything because it's a safe bet. Life is good and nothing changes much. I like that. There's that I'm a disability. Sorry, Gary, go ahead. No, not a problem. Speaking of safe bets, it brings me back to the point you made earlier about how some people are looking into some countries in Africa.

And you mentioned Sierra Leone. And forgive me, I don't remember the other two that you mentioned. But I don't want to put you in the prediction business because like you said, it's so difficult to see if we do subscribe to this fourth turning idea, how it's going to end in five to seven years, how the chess board is going to look around the world. But are there any countries that you're seeing today, which, may not be ideal places to go today, but maybe you're seeing a kind of a seed, an inkling, that maybe in five, seven years, these might be worthwhile places to consider.

Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia. Yeah, those countries on the eastern side of EU that also had experience with socialism prior, they're the ones that getting out of this fourth turn, differently before countries like Portugal and Germany, etc. Poland is currently doing pretty well. And there is this belief that the EU is going to start closing the internal borders for, because right now as a EU resident, you can travel across without problems, right?

Well, now some countries have immigration policy that allows everybody to come in while others are pretty conservative with their immigration policies. But if you have open borders, that doesn't really matter. It's like the water between two containers will always equalize at some point. So I think it might happen sooner rather than later. I do expect EU to potentially not exist in a form and shape it is now about nine years from now. Oh, okay. I'm sticking with my prediction.

I called the year, and I should stick with that to see if it actually realizes. And then I think Poland is going to do well through this change. We'll see, of course. And they're very close to the Eastern European conflict. The war between Russian Ukraine, they're very close. So that might be the factor. We'll see how that plays out. But currently they're doing really well.

In this thesis, do you think Poland's going to leave the EU? because my understanding would be like they were going to suffer the same sort of problems, just like you said, if they're still part of that system. I think EU is going to look completely different. So I think the unions, the partnerships are going to change. And there will be new partnership. Like if you look at the last 430, the new institutions have like were formed over the last 5, 7 years. So the IMF, the UN,

That actually all came out from the crisis. So I think the new alignments are going to start happening over the next seven years. And the reason I brought up specifically Czech Republic and Poland is those are the most, the ones that you wouldn't guess. So like if I say El Salvador or Paraguay or Argentina, that's kind of like, yeah, everybody's looking at those. But the ones that I think might do really well. and nobody really watches them necessarily. That would be bold. Well, then let me flip it on you, Katie.

And again, I know you're not in the prediction business, but you said a lot of those changes in the past fourth turning happened over the past five, or the last five to seven years of it. Are there places that look relatively safe and okay now, which you might consider, well, maybe after this is all over, they may not be as safe we currently envision them?

Well, it depends on what we call safe. So are we talking about internal, like a civil unrest or are we talking about geopolitical unrest? Because civil unrest is definitely, I mean, during the crisis, civil unrest is very often happening all over the world. Like the money changing pockets, those with capital lose the capital. They can't get used to this new format of living. So yeah, the civil unrest is going to happen in a lot of places.

that kind of change over the next seven years. The geopolitics, well, we are in such a different world now from the last fourth turning. The wars are digital and technological. And I mean, how do you call bio, whatever, a weapon, weaponry, like all that stuff. Like, we're getting sicker by the day in some way. So that's another thing to look into.

Yeah, we'll see how that plays out. In terms of global geopolitics, I don't know who else is going to get involved in those conflicts. It looks pretty pessimistic already. Gotcha. I guess what about on the financial side, countries that seem relatively free economically now, maybe in five, seven years, not as much? Yeah, so here we need to look into, okay, who has, resources, who is involved in trade,

but then on the other side, who is involved in the trade between residents, right? Who is attracting people with capital? And we talked about sovereign individual before. It's like which country is going to be on top? The one that's getting stricter, who's global trade, the one that is getting regulatory environment hardened and hardened. or the one that is playing the carrot rather than a stick and saying,

look, there will be less taxes. Just bring your money and build here. And we're going to see interesting changes from that because I think that's the first time that the capital is so mobile during the crisis that they don't even realize that the carrot and the stick going to be very visible. Yesterday, I was thinking about it, preparing for the Bitcoin conference. I was like, I need to make a map where all the countries on the map are either carrot or a stick. That's it. That's fine.

That's fine. And from there we go and see how capital moves. Again, there's Capital Exodus, Patreon Citizen X, where we basically try and track where money are moving from and where they're going. Again, UK is going to be the leader of the Red Board where it's like the capital Exodus is so CVN. year, it's hard to believe. And they're not fully realizing it yet, but once they hit the bottom, it's going to hurt really bad. I don't know if you guys have been keeping track, but I really like some of Peter McCormack's

doings. Like, just allow it to private militia to protect local businesses of the street. How crazy is that. Yeah, that'd be great. He's got the, what is it, we do not consent. I forget what the specific web, side is for he's got his basically no consent organization. Yes, anarchist

libertarian Peter is my favorite Peter. This vigilante Batman businessman who's tried to like save his country, I love it. He's my favorite thing right now. You have to right. It's interesting to see that even someone like him who's gone, his political journey has been completely public

for all of us to watch and participate in that the UK is getting so bad. It's pushing him in this direction. It's unfathomable. It's literally the meme who radicalized you. Yes. It completely is.

You know, it's interesting. I'm getting this vision now of like your carrot and stickboard. I almost don't, I'll get clod or somebody to do it. I almost want to have like a topological map

of where capital is flowing because you could almost see like the gravity pools pulling it in, right? You have that kind of depth to it and see where it's going to move. I did want to talk about one. The other country is I kind of curious,

but I'm still optimistic that Serbia will be a monarchy again. And then I've got an inside there so that I can hopefully move to Serbia. I did want to, question. Right? Super bullish on Serbian monarchies.

I'd love to see that again. Are you orthodox yet? I'll have to be. I'll be fine with that. Argentina, I want to ask what, I don't know the situation in Argentina and why people are paying attention to it. And then the other one to want to quickly touch on as well

is just New Zealand because not for Bitcoiners, but I hear, I don't know if it was like just for getting out of like nuclear threat or what the reason is, but I've heard wealthy people going to New Zealand as another country that was being fly. But for me, even just on a political standpoint, I don't think I'd be any happier there than in Canada.

Yeah, I know. I think, yeah, I think that New Zealand is in their own bubble in some ways. And yeah, the nuclear definitely, if you look at the nuclear reach map, the New Zealand is just hanging out there eating popcorn while we all getting blown up. Okay, so that is why. Yeah, that's probably the case. But, yeah, my clientele is not going to New Zealand. know that there are some businesses like Citizen X on the other side of political spectrum and

they help people move to New Zealand and Canada specifically that's like their business model. Serbia, you mentioned something else. Oh, Argentina. Well, Millie came to. Millie was the new president. People like what he had to say. But seems like he is getting a lot of pushback from the other party. and he just keeps pushing through.

They had the midterm election recently, and they won them, which is a good sign for the country trajectory, but still curious how it's going to play out. Excellent. Katie, is there anything that we've missed? Because again, this question's coming up so much. So if someone wants to get out, they're done, they're leaving.

We talked about taking that six-week trip. Is there anything else that they should start to do, start to consider, when should they come? talk to you. What else are we missing here to give people the most information possible to plan for their passport portfolio and to plan to have those exit strategies in place? Because even I'll tell you right now, like even for myself, this is a conversation me and my wife are having. We are trying to figure out where to go. And at times it feels like option paralysis. Like I have besides like North America and a little bit of Europe and once in Australia,

I haven't been that many other places. And it's so hard to identify like what's going to work for us and even how to begin. It feels overwhelming. Yeah. Step one, look into your ancestry. Again, you might have ancestors from Europe, and this is not the place you want to relocate right now, but a second passport is a second passport.

The game board might be redrawn. You want to keep this optionality running for your kids and their kids because the next generation will be born automatically dual nationals. So keep that optionality running. second immigration is a skill so if you have to relocate like push come to shelf you have to relocate you're going to have much harder time if you didn't try that six-week trip um relocating out of necessity is like a third major crisis for human life like they say that losing a relative is number one divorce is number two um and number three is like immigration

out of necessity. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're pushed to get through that, no matter what, with your kids, put the right things in place. Understand how it's going to work out. Take this moment of crisis out of the picture because for Warners for armed, if you have

a plan, the crisis ends when the system starts. So put a system in place. And in case you have to pull that trigger, everything is going to work out. So do that. Look into second passports if you think that your country government might have an overreach soon.

If you think that there might be civil unrest that is going to cause log borders. That's what they do in a civil unrest. Make sure that you have a second set of documents for that. So those cheap African passports might be just a play. And yeah, you don't have to get the passport

from the place that you consider your plan B residency. Those could be two different locations, and that's what people mostly do. And they get a second passport for escape. They get a residency in the country that they want to live in. That works pretty well and might be much cheaper than you think. Yeah, that would be my advice. I'll book a free call with me.

Let's brainstorm together and what can work with you? That would be another call to action right there. But yeah, Gary, looking at you. Let's look into those ancestral lines. I would love that. Well, Nathan, I'm looking at your last name. There must be something, too. I'm so like white bread mutt that it's hard for me.

So for me in particular, I think, like, you have to go back quite a ways to touch the Irish heritage. So I think I'm too far away from Ireland to make it happen. Mum was the only one not born in the UK for her, but she never got her UK passport. So I'm grandparents for UK. I don't know if I can get that one. I thought that was too far.

And then there's like, there's Russian, Polish, Ukrainian. Like basically the whitest countries you can think of, throw them in a blender, that's me. But I'll just call myself Irish because of the last name. Yeah, okay. Well, I would still look into, I would even get a UK passport, honestly. Like, I know this is like the last thing you would think about right now, but I would still go for it. Again, for the sake of you don't know what's happening 60 years from now. Keep this optionality writing for your kids.

Completely agree. I have one last final question, and this might kind of just be out there. I don't know if you have the answer or not, but we talked about getting different passports, different residencies. All of this is working within the legal system. And it's all great. And presumably if things will turn out fine and when you show up to the airport with that other passport, they're like, all right, well, you have the other passport.

We've got to let you go. But as a student of history, governments don't always necessarily follow the law. So I know, I know, Nathan. I'll have to explain it to you sometime. It's weird how it works out that way. So are there, is there any advice you'd give for something people can do in a situation where you do have your second passport? And the man at Custom says, yeah, that's nice. I don't give a fuck.

I have a gun. You're staying here. Learn how to sail. Okay. I love it. Totally fair enough. I think that's the perfect. Play this rabbit. Katie, where can people go if they want to talk to you? If they want to know what the

team does, where can they follow you? Where can they find you? Yeah, we actually allow you to schedule a free call to brainstorm with us through citizenex.com. You just create your account. And from there, you can join your private signal chat to ask any questions in a private manner or you can schedule a call with us. This is the best way to start working on your plan B flag. Obviously, that's what I tweet about quite a bit, plus throwing some motherhood, some language struggle here and there in Twitter. So I'm Plainbee Passport on Twitter. And yeah, those are the two best places to find all we talked about today. Hey, guys, thanks for watching the video. Just wanted to quickly let you know we're going to be doing our

annual Bitcoin Survival Workshop covering how to privately use and acquire Bitcoin June 28th in Banff. You can scan the QR code or check the link in the description to learn more. We'd love to have you there. If you enjoyed this episode with Katie, please do like and subscribe and check out last week's episode on upping your privacy and security or the war in Iran.