BTC Sessions - Hedge Fund LEGEND — “This Is Bitcoin’s BIGGEST Opportunity Since 2010” (WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON)

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

A legendary hedge fund insider, Jordi Visser, just called this Bitcoin’s biggest opportunity since 2010. What does he see that others don’t? In this episode, we break down the macro shifts, institutional signals, and what’s really going on beneath the surface that could send Bitcoin into uncharted territory.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/carlabitcoinhttps://x.com/PlanBpassporthttps://x.com/satsieFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCp#btc #bitcoin #crypto

So Bitcoin just dumped again. The headlines scream panic. The influencers turn bearish. And retail does what retail always does. They sell the bottom. But one hedge fund legend just dropped a theory that completely reframes what's happening right now, calling this moment Bitcoin's silent IPO. Most people won't understand what that means.

They'll panic sell and watch history repeat itself, while smart money quietly positions. Because if his thesis is correct, we're not witnessing the end of a bull market. We're standing on the edge of a similar inflection point that has defined every other major asset in history. So on today's show, we're going to be chatting what the term silent IPO means,

comparing it to similar turning points from the past and show why the average bitconer might make, or worse sabotage the greatest opportunity of this decade. Today on Why Are We Bullish to discuss this and much, much more. We've got an incredible panel of guests, not only building a brighter future, but also parenting the next generation of Bitcoiners. We've got Carla the Queen of Bitcoin content with a moderately talented husband.

We've got Katie with Citizen X helping you secure a second passport, your plan B, and we've got Stacey doing work with Bitcoin Debt Project, pay join, formerly of CASA, all kinds of great stuff. I think she may be more technical than myself. I'm going to have to, I'll have to keep up. So lock in, drop a like on the video, and stay tuned. You're not going to want to miss this one. I am Ben with the BTC sessions.

This is your daily session. So I want to welcome to the stage, Stacey, Carlin, Carla and Katie. Ladies, how are you this evening? Hey, hey. Thanks for having me. Incredible. Thanks for being here.

It's about time that I was outnumbered on this show. It doesn't happen often. But figured we should have some talented bitcoinsers in the room here. And there's no shortage to pick from. But I wanted to start us off with a little bit of sentiment. I mean, you guys saw the the absolute Armageddon is what you would see on Twitter,

but I'm sure you guys just kind of brushed it off. But we did go sub 100K, which was interesting to watch. But I wanted to bring up this article that was dropped by this guy by the name of Jordi Visser. So I'll just share my screen here. So

So this dude, if you're unfamiliar with him, and maybe I'll just won us along the side here. So who is this guy? He began his career at Morgan Stanley, working in risk management derivatives, all of the financial stuff. He then moved on to become president and chief investment officer of a major hedge fund called Weiss Multi-Strategy Advisors. and he recently dropped this article here called Bitcoin's silent IPO, why this consolidation isn't what you think. And so kind of the long and the short of what he wrote here is he's basically saying

that Bitcoin's not broken or dead as many of us know, but it is in a little bit of a transition phase analogous to a silent IPO. And he's basically describing how the early holders, the old early hoddlers of Bitcoin who took enormous risk are gradually just kind of realizing their gains. Like they've been some of these people have been holding on for 10, 15 years. And they're again, just kind of beginning to enjoy their lives as many of us want to be able to do. And in doing so, there's this kind of reason. distribution. And there's this cool chart that shows that actually over time, the inverse of what

happens in fiat is happening in Bitcoin, where capital just kind of coalesces on a select few that are closest to the money printer, whereas in Bitcoin gradually, the largest holder is like to enjoy the fruits of your labor, you do have to spend it. And so the on-chain data is showing that coins that have been dormant for years, even from like the single-digit era. are becoming active. So that's indicating large holders are actually moving. And meanwhile, of course, we've got all the institutional stuff. So the result is that price action, and I feel like most people would echo this,

has been frustratingly sideways or muted because it feels like with all the good news constantly, it should be ripping. But it's just kind of this redistribution of people that, again, took this massive risk. And it's similar type of thing when a company will have an IPO. They will, you know, all of the people that began from seed rounds will kind of offload a little bit in that moment where the general public is really starting to get it and dive in. And it kind of sucks initially. But after that six, 12, 18 months, then you start to actually see what people felt should have been going on long ago. And so like some examples of this, of recognizable like Amazon, Apple meta, like all of their post IPO stuff, it sucked initially.

Like you had drops because people were just like, well, I've had this forever. I sat through like the riskiest times and I'm going to enjoy my life for the risk that I took. But then post IPO, you're getting like tens to 20 X's beyond. before. So I'm wondering, one, have you guys found this year to be particularly frustrating price-wise compared to previous cycles? And two, do you think this rings true? Do you think this is kind of what's happening? What's your kind of intuition on where we are or you just don't give a shit? You're just silently stacking and enjoying. Whoever wants to dive in here. I definitely have a have a comeback to what you described from the article.

The precede investors in the companies that go IPO sitting on absolutely illiquid asset. So they're forced huddled and they have no exit strategy. Like sometimes they're able to sail on secondary market, but that's a rare thing. Again, a liquid asset. All this huddlers that are realizing their gain. now had to have the conviction throughout the year. So that's very different. They were sitting on a liquid asset they could sell at any point of their life, but the conviction was there throughout the year. So that's a very different sort of asset. And the investors are very different too.

So that's definitely worth noticing. And most of them were not only buying pre-seed and seed round. They participated in every damn market up and down and kept stacking. So the conviction is much more there. But at the same time, I was wondering, you know how people who gradually get reach over time, they usually are able to access loans, financing, etc. Because they're sitting on Fiat terms. Like they're earning in Fiat. They can show Fiat transactions.

many of the Bitcoiners got wealthy through one asset that has no interaction with Fiat system, so they don't have access to the same line of credit. So they do have to sell the asset. And they can't as easily borrow against their asset like the traditional investors either. So, yeah, the distribution will have to happen because the only thing we can do is sell. in majority of times. But yeah, we'll

learn. We'll build some instruments around that, I'm sure, as well. Yeah, absolutely. Carla or Stacy, do you want to dive in? I am not frustrated at all. I think it's a good thing. I'm like a very big, slow and steady wins the race, gal.

One of the things that, you know, was discussed on a podcast some time ago is just like the idea and this concept of like, okay, let's say we were to like moonshot to a million or even just like 750K, whatever. It's like, what world, what does the world look like in that scenario? What precipitated that? Because like I'd bet that the rest of the world would not be looking great. You know, like I am much more of the opinion.

Like let's have the transfers from the whales to the small guys. Let's do it over time. Let's chop solidate for another five years if we have to. if it means, you know, the world wasn't plunged into chaos. Everyone fled to Bitcoin. And, you know, it's like, great, Bitcoin's a million, but I care more about my ammo. Like, let's take it slow and study. And I think also with this new crop of Bitcoiners that's come in through the hype around

treasury companies and stuff, it's like a lot of people have lost sight of the build wealth slowly and it's become more of a get rich quick thing, which is just not what it was like when I initially entered. But I'm a product of the bear market. So, I mean, if we do go bearish, I'm like, I'm honey, I'm home. It is. The people that stick around on the bear markets are the best. Like, those are the.

And also, you feel like when you come out the other side of a bear market with somebody that's been around, there's this knowing of like, we've been through it together kind of thing. I like that dynamic. But Stacey, I'll toss it to you. Yeah. All the best stuff is built during bear markets. And it's kind of my favorite time to be on Bitcoin, Twitter. I didn't notice that we went sub 100K.

You said today. Oh, okay. Yeah, in the past day, I think it was yesterday at some point. Yeah, I think nothing good ever comes from watching the price usually. But I think that I can definitely sympathize with this frustration that so much good is happening in the Bitcoin space. Yeah, I feel like the price is not quite reflecting that. But, you know, there's nothing. I can't really control that.

So yeah, I think I'm just grateful that we're anywhere near 100K. I remember when I first got into Bitcoin and I was telling people, it's going to go to 100K. You just, you just wait. And we waited and long enough it did. And for my own selfish reasons, I like lower prices because I don't have enough Bitcoin. Does anyone have enough Bitcoin? So gives me more chances to stack. It's a good opportunity, right?

Like, it's, if you, if you can find a way to, to create value for others and just spend less than you earn, and you can just kind of keep that conviction through those bare markets, like that's, that's where you make the difference. Like, yeah, the people that bought the top in 2021 with FOMO and then just sat on that single buy, they're doing okay. Like, they're up. But it's like the people that when it was like absolute apocalypse, FTX imploded and it was 15K and they're like smash buying, those people are are love in life. Like, yeah. To Carla's point, you know how like this entire epoch of bull market is literally filled with people with tickers in their Twitter bio without the Bitcoin in their bio whatsoever? And like many of us came for the price, right? Like the number goes up, it draws people.

Like, that's why you pay attention. That's why the new cycle happens. But then during the bear market, you see, like, you kind of pretend to huddle through exchanges. Exchanges go down. They blow up. The lending platforms blow up. And you learn the importance of self-custody and, like, one of the main features of Bitcoin. Well, these people, they don't even pretend to hold Bitcoin.

They know exactly what they're holding. They're holding the paper on the stock market. And like, are they ever going to get educated or is it just an entire generation of Bitcoiners that never going to learn the, you know, the principles behind the asset while their number goes up? That's, that's a good question. And I was having a conversation with somebody the other day about, you know, we have had a bit of a suit corner corner era here. And it feels different because there's a class of, you know, Bitcoiner right now that has never really, as you said, Katie, has never known, like, the why. They just see it as, oh, this is like a great asset to own or get exposure to. Right.

Like, they don't, there's not the, there's not the visceral, like, fuck the state kind of like, hey, like, We're, this is an alternative. We're building the silent, peaceful revolution here, and you need the tools to do so. And actually, we've seen a good number, like on the channel, definitely, there's been a good number of new people coming in, maybe some people watching right now, that came in on a news story of like MSTR or something and started watching the channel through that, that hopefully through watching, they're beginning to hear things like self-custody is important, and they're beginning to ask those questions. And like, I always, these shows, I hope are educational for those people

to begin that, you know, that breadcrumb trail and begin learning about like the basics. How do I use a wallet? How do I use cold storage stuff like that? So, you know, you'll probably hear me over and over throughout this episode, just drilling that home to people, like, use the tools. I literally have a QR code that I throw on the side. I'm like, guys, there's tutorials here. Go to the page and it helps. But anyways, yeah, I constantly put this up and say, like, if you're coming in because you have stock that has exposure to Bitcoin,

you can do a lot more than that. You can become a lot more self-sovereign. So, yeah, it's, I hope we can change that. I hope we can, naturally, with new people you're going to get. Yeah. And I was just to stop by my neighbor on a street and was like, okay, Katie, do you still have the same conviction?

I'm like, yeah, dude, I do. Like, that's just not going to change. And he goes, should I just go for an ETF? Because I don't trust myself actually doing the hotline. I'm like, well, if you want immediate big exposure, yeah, sure, like go what you know. But start dipping your toes and like you will learn. This is not hard. But yeah, this interaction, I was like, wait a second.

Are we at the flick at the top of this market? I'm being stopped by a neighbor now. Yeah. Yeah, I think a good response. If somebody says, I don't trust myself, you can ask, who do you trust more, yourself or the government? Yeah. That's usually a good starting point.

But nonetheless, I don't want to dwell on this too much, but I feel like we're all doing okay. I think we're all weathering the story. just fine if you can even call it a storm when we're at 100K. Yeah, it's not a storm. Yeah. It's a light drizzle. But the reason we're actually here is to find out why you guys are bullish,

what you're currently excited about in and around Bitcoin. And the topic can really be anything that you like. So we're going to find out why each of you is bullish. And so I'm going to turn to Stacey, aka Satsy here first. And Stacey, I'm going to give you the same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? Yeah. So I come from the developer world, specifically now I work on developer education resources

tooling through the Bitcoin Dev project. And I anecdotally over the past few years, I've just seen so much excitement in the developer community in ways that did not exist five, you know, even 10 years ago. the amount of educational resources has just exploded. The amount of people working as Bitcoin application developers, that wasn't a thing about five years ago. I remember I was working at Kasa at the time, and I just felt it was such a weird place for me.

I was like, I'm not a core dev, but I do work on Bitcoin. What do I call myself? That wasn't like a job back then. But it is now developers are getting funded. We're having all these big conferences. So I wanted to shine some light on the kernel project. It's called Lib Bitcoin Kernel. This is a project that's been going on for quite some time on the order of years, if not possibly 10 years.

And they just had a PR get merged into Bitcoin Core called the number is 3059, 30,595. And the title of the PR is Kernel, Introduce C-Header API. And the way that the lead dev, the Charterlin describes it is developers can use this to build, their own full node implementations, validation tools, data readers, indexers, zero knowledge systems, and wallets. So what does that all mean? Let's circle back and come back to Bitcoin Core. Bitcoin Core is the reference implementation of Bitcoin. It's the first one that was built. And by way of that, that's the Satoshi's code base, I won't start as Satoshi's, things that happen, like behaviors in Bitcoin Core end up sometimes accidentally becoming like the standard. So that's,

there is a bug in the up multi-sig op code such that you have to add an extra item to the stack. Now, the problem with that is it makes it really hard for other node implementations to exist because they have to behave exactly like Bitcoin Core when in reality we kind of just need them, we need to encapsulate all of the consensus logic and then make that reusable such that other clients can build on that. And that's exactly what the kernel is doing. It's called the Bitcoin kernel, but a lot of people just call it the kernel project. So when we talk about consensus rules, what do we mean?

It's often things that you just know about, like block size. All nodes agree that there is a limit to the block size. We also all agree that you cannot double spend a UTXO. We agree that miners cannot create Bitcoin out of thin air, aside from the block subsidy. So this project is an example of one reason why. in the developer world. I'm really excited. I think that people are building a lot of great things. I think we will, as users, come to see them in the years ahead. But yeah, I just like from where I sit, I'm very bullish. So when you, I've got a question here, when you say,

be able to create their own node implementations, all this kind of stuff, what do you mean by node implementation, like are you saying like its own, their own client or is, are you referring more to like an umbraul start nine type deal? Like what does that? Yeah. Um, specifically the software, not not so much the hardware aspect, but right now most, although with the whole like, knots discussion, we're seeing a lot of people running knots as well, but knots is based on Bitcoin core. Most people are running the Bitcoin core software if they say they're running a Bitcoin node. no matter if that's like an umbrella or start nine, or they could be running knots, which is, you know, again, based on the same code base.

There are a couple other implementations like BTCD, which the folks that Lightning Labs maintain. So if you're running an LND node, you're probably using that. There's a library called Bitcoin. There's Lib Bitcoin kernel. But there's just not a ton of variety. And I think it would be very good for the ecosystem to have some variety. The developer working on Libbycoin kernel, he's actually working on a rust. implementation of the Bitcoin protocol. And earlier this year, there was a participant in ChainCode

Labs' boss program that actually wrote a wallet against the kernel and used that for the consensus. So when I talk about, I mean the actual software itself. So this would be something that makes it simpler for there to be more alternatives to running core then? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because there's a lot of stuff in core that like doesn't need to be specific to Bitcoin like when we talk about the peer to peer layer and how how nodes handle like the networking and like what they do with the messages. Yes, they all need to speak the same language, but they don't have to do things exactly the same

or like fee estimation. Like if you don't like Bitcoin Core's fee estimation, you should be able to write your own client that does it a little bit differently or the block template construction, stuff like that. So I do find this very. interesting in that on one hand and we're gonna are we gonna dive down this pieces i'm i'm i'm hearing knuckles cracking ready for keyboards to to be typed on in the chat nonetheless okay so it's funny because on one hand you have um you know a recent uh the most recent version of of of of core that that as in a negative sense caused a number of people to run an alternative implementation. And where, you know, Bitcoin Core was 90, you know, most, it was like high 90.

97. I checked it literally the day that it, for other reasons I checked it. And it was 97. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now and I don't know the exact like how many of these are just spun up for whatever. But If you look on like some of the, some of the stats, it might be like 80, 20, somewhere in that range, you know, give or take a few percent back and forth. But the long and the short of it is one added function or change to the defaults resulted in, you know, a very vocal group of people wanting to run an alternative implementation. But what you're saying is that now this has been also. the ability for more people to more easily create other alternative implementations to Bitcoin Core has now just been merged. And when I look at something like this, I think it's a great thing that we have multiple

implementations in the long run for the risk of if one implementation were to do something really, really, or to try to do something really out there that changes the consensus rules. If there's one main implementation that is overwhelmingly run by everyone, it's more likely that a bad decision could get through. But when there's many, many, when you're talking with the main kind of like consensus rules, not only do you have to convince the people to upgrade to the latest version of the current implementation, but you have to also convince the other implementations to change that consensus level change, like when it comes to like hard forks.

So I think it protects Bitcoin from ultra contentious potential hard forks in the future. Am I often left field or is that okay? Yeah, yeah. I think that it also a good point. to make is it protects the developers also working in the repo. Like it's right now, if you make a small change to one area, it's possible that there could be a cascading effect in the consensus part of the code. And now that we can encapsulate that out, that makes it safer to make smaller changes to like maybe the wall or something. But I do want to point out that the

I believe the kernel project is far from over. We just had a big milestone get merged, which is amazing, but I think there's still quite a bit more work left to go. That's fair enough, but I mean, that's really cool. I'm curious if Carla Keda, you have questions, comments, whatever you want to ask of Stacey here. So considering that any implementation, like let's say I build my own node, I obviously have to participate in the same sort of transaction, and that can be changed.

But like, how can I reject something? Like, can I only route transactions that come from legacy addresses or things like that? What can I actually do to, like, be different kind of node and not participate in your sort of transactions? Yeah. So the idea is that, like, we, there are certain rules about the Bitcoin network that we all agree on, like, block and transaction validation, that basic stuff. you wouldn't if you were using the kernel you would be agreeing to all those things which is kind of what you want to do um but let's say that you don't like bitcoin core's wallet and i know like you could build your own that works very closely with the node implementation and do things that you know mallets today might not be able to do

so it's it's about like um it's it's less about changing any of the like i feel like if people were to try to make consensus changes, it would still kind of all consolidate in the kernel. Like that would be the discussion space for it. But it's like everything that's auxiliary to that, that Bitcoin Court does at the moment that people kind of want to change or make different and unique to their own implementation. Awesome. Carla, anything? Do you have anything that you want to ask?

I don't speak on this topic. I've been getting dragged enough. That is okay. that is fine um stacey where can people find uh everything about this like if people want to kind of dive into this become a part of it like where where do they go that's a really good question um so i'm always saying it's because i have a tab open well the main developer is the chartillin so you can try to follow his stuff either on twitter or on github the uh rust node that he's building is rush rust dash bitcoin kernel um and then um and then

I would just do a general search on Lib Bitcoin kernel. It's GitHub issue 24303 in the core repo is kind of like the big one. Awesome. And then in terms of the, is this in relation to the Bitcoin Dev project as well? Like are people there a part of this? Not specifically. we do kind of direct people if they're looking for something to work on. This is definitely something that we say.

And actually, to my knowledge, the Kernel project has gotten some more contributors over the last few months. Sorry, just to correct it, the newer issue is 27-587. No, in general, with the Bitcoin Dev project, we kind of show people different open-source Bitcoin projects they can participate in. So this would come up in a discussion like that. Okay, awesome, awesome. Well, we'll link it down below and everything, but yeah, I mean, this was, I'm glad to hear that even despite the Twitterverse panicking about many things, there's always positives happening in the background. Builders are building for a better Bitcoin. So I love to hear it.

Thanks for that, Stacey. And with that, Carla, I know I can feel the bullishness seeping. through the screen. We're going to address that in a moment. We're going to find out why Carla is so damn bullish. Of course, everybody that's here now, if you're enjoying the conversation, please drop a like in the video. We're going to find out why Carla is so damn bullish. I can see you're chomping at the bit ready to tell us. But we're going to give a quick sponsor shout out. We'll be back in just one moment. See you in a sec. Bitcoin Well is the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S.

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You have access to flexible conditions, the best rates, and institutional grade liquidity. If you're looking to make use of your capital, don't sell your Bitcoin, borrow against it. You can head over to debify.com to check them out or simply scan the QR code on the screen. All right. We are back in and Carla, I'm going to tee up. Same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? well I'm actually kind of a bull larp like deep down inside I'm always a short-term bear

um no but why am I bullish um and I actually do have a reason I think what square is doing and I think it's like officially November 10th right with allowing merchants to opt in to Bitcoin like I think that's huge I think this cycle I mean maybe I'm just not as involved in the space like admittedly but I just feel like merchant adoption has sort of fallen off like I feel like years ago all we cared about was like, let's go get more merchants on board. Let's actually use it as money. Ha, ha, ha. And then lately it's like, where did any of that go, right? So I think it's very refreshing. And, you know, some people would say like, long time coming, right? But I think it's very refreshing that we're finally seeing something on the merchant side that is at such scale. I think there's something like

four million merchants on Square in the U.S. And, I mean, even if we get a small fraction of that, like, that'd be sick. You know, you got to start somewhere. Do I think that it's going to be like, it turns on November 10th and all of a sudden, everyone's opting in like, no, of course. And I think it's going to be like a slow trickle. And hopefully, you know, number continues to go up as merchants decide to accept it and not the other way around. That makes them be like, just kidding, I'm turning this off.

But again, I think that is a huge step forward. I think it has huge potential to bring in normies, even who are like in the crypto side. Because a lot of people like have Bitcoin, but they're also shitcoiners. but, you know, if they have an option there, it's like, oh, that's cool. So I think that's, that makes me bullish because it has the potential to be huge, whether or not it will be. I don't know, but it definitely has potential. Yeah, I saw, I was seeing something about this. I think they were doing some of the initial, maybe like testing or whatever, but there was a, a coffee chain that started doing the square terminal thing.

But I think, as you said, it's rolling out officially kind of to any user pretty soon here. But yeah, I mean, it's, I think even if the vendor at this point isn't, you know, isn't stacking away the Bitcoin. It's not only good for the Bitcoiners that, you know, the crazy people like myself that just want to live on Bitcoin. But I think it's also instructive for the vendors that are accepting it because they're going to have this moment years down the road where they're like, oh, we were just like dumping that shit for dollars for the past five years. And had we put some of this away, like we can literally see, we can see through every single transaction how much Bitcoin was actually paid and what we could have put away. I think in and of itself, that's a great instructive moment for people because pain is an effective teacher. And actually, I'm kind of doing a similar thing with my daughter with her allowance. So my daughter gets her allowance split between Bitcoin and dollars like cash.

And while, so here's why. I know. I know boo, but it will do her good in the future, I think. So the idea is that Bitcoin is kind of like a forced savings unless we're, you know, doing something where she can use Bitcoin to pay. But, and then she goes and she buys her trinkets and, you know, necklaces and stuff like that with her with the cash portion. The idea being that years later, when she's grown up and she's looking at her allowance and

she's like, holy crap, this is a car or a house. And I'll be able to say like, yeah. And like, you know, this is, this is actually how many dollars you got. And now it's, it can, it can do this. But the funnier thing is you, you, this amount, even though it's, it's increased in value. And the dollar amount is is relatively low compared to that. You actually could have had double this, but you got it in dollars and then you spent it on all these things that you probably don't even remember what you got.

So I'm hoping that that can be an educational moment as it would be with a business accepting Bitcoin and auto converting it to dollars where years later it's like, oh, crap. Like it's the return of savings, right? We don't have that. There's no savings culture whatsoever. And so that's what I hope that this, what you're talking about with these merchants that might start to flick these switches and just accept it passively. as maybe even as like a marketing schick.

Well, just like a mainstream signal, just like steak and shake, you know? Like I bet they started as a marketing stick. They're like, oh, look at all these like crazy bitcoins on Bitcoin Twitter.

I'm just going to create an AI image of a burger and put Bitcoin on it. And then everyone liked it. And then they were like, hey, wait a minute. What if we took a burger and put a Bitcoin on it? Oh, okay.

Well, maybe we should learn about this. These guys are crazy. Oh, our sales have increased. You know what? Let's start an SBR. Like, look at that. And I'm, you know,

let's just see. Maybe it'll happen again. someone else is going to do it. The steak and shake playbook. Why not? I hope so. I don't know. What do you, what do you, Stacy, Katie? What do you guys think? So where I'm at, I'm in Austin, Texas. And it seems like square terminal is like the go-to for all the businesses. Anywhere I go to, everybody got square terminal. So it's already a strongest player for a POS. And maybe it's good they didn't focus on Bitcoin right away in adoption. They just built like the best damn product that every business

used, the best POS, and now it's going to be a very low entry point for those businesses to actually start accepting Bitcoin because they already have the POS, the terminal, all we have to do is opt in. And yeah, here's where we step in and start asking

every business, do you accept Bitcoin? Because if they hear it enough times, they will, because again, the entry point is so low now for them. But yeah, in Austin, Texas, everybody He's already using Square, so I'm pretty hopeful. That's great.

The best part, too, is if they start doing that, not that I want Jack and Square to hear this, but like at some point, somebody's going to put together like if a whole bunch of their sales are coming in through square terminals in the form of Bitcoin. And then they start seeing like, oh, well, Square is scraping a fee from this. and then they just become self-sovereign Bitcoiners. They're like, we can find a Bitcoin wallet. Why the hell are we doing it? Like, I, you know, this is the Trojan horse maybe.

I don't know. Stacey, is this the Trojan horse? I hope so. I just love being normalized. And do you accept Bitcoin? Because I ask that and I get the weirdest looks. And then I'm getting embarrassed. I'm like, I don't want to be talking.

Sorry I mentioned it. I had a question and I think you guys are kind of alluding to it. So is it that merchants have the options? to decide if they want to keep the Bitcoin or cash it out for Fiat. And do we know if there's our defaults there? I guess either way is like, you know, you get Bitcoin at the price you deserve. But I just curious how it works. I think there is an option and that they're keeping fees very low for like, I don't know.

I don't work for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For like a year or something. I don't know, I don't know. Yeah. Don't quote me on this. Jamie, Jamie. Yeah.

I've got to assume that Square would like, that Dorsey would enable them to choose kind of, I mean, assuming, I guess. Can someone get Jack on the line? Yeah, Jack. You guys know them, right? Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I would hope that that that would be the baseline, like, at least, yeah, it can land as Bitcoin and stay as Bitcoin.

But who knows? I mean, it is Jack Dorsey, who's been into Bitcoin forever, and they're just, rolling out this functionality. So like maybe maybe that's not there yet. I'm saying in the chat, no fees at launch. I don't know if it's true, but no fees. Chat, if you're right, Nathan Fitzsimmons. Yeah.

Are you six, six, four? He, he's 99% sure. Thank you, Nathan. Yeah. Nathan, you fact check that if again. Well, and then let us know and then we'll take it as gospel. Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's great. I think actually the timing now is better, too.

There was a huge push in like 2014, 2015. Let's get everybody to accept Bitcoin. It was so early. Yeah. It was so ill-conceived, too, because, like, what, you know, what ended up happening, it's like block size wars and lightning and all of that shit. And so then it's like, you then have to go back to the merchants and be like, all right, so here's the deal. We're building an entirely new monetary system.

And actually, you kind of entered on like the global settlement layer. So like we're literally watching like all of the layers atop be built. And so you have to then update the merchant as each thing happens and try to explain the monetary. base and then like the fast payments and they're like I can't with it. Oh, also we split into two different currencies and both sides are arguing that they're the real Bitcoin and then the other like real Bitcoin split into two other real Bitcoin. Imagine imagine going through all that shit in like 2017 after you onboarded somebody like a year ago. It would have been a nightmare. Yeah.

Yeah. We don't do ourselves many favors in Bitcoin, but hey, that's right. It's so early. Yeah, exactly. But I do feel it's, it makes sense now. Because also back then it was, it was all marketing schick, right? Like it was like Dell and Microsoft. Like, give a shit about Bitcoin.

They're like, we want to seem cool. and it's like the Steve Bouchemmy, hello fellow kids. Like it was it was that. And unsurprising to anybody, they all turned it off eventually. And so maybe is this time different? I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.

We'll give it some time. I don't know. What would be your choice of if there were to be another mechanism for people to pay in Bitcoin? other than obviously just directly accepting Bitcoin, what would be the next best thing next to Square to enable it? I mean, probably Square just doing it through PNC. Through what? What's the thing that we have in our phones that allows us to do this?

NFC? NFC, yeah, NFC. Okay, okay. What was your abbreviation? PNC, it's a bank in the U.S. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Did PayPal ever offer Bitcoin support? I know they're doing some stuff with it, but I think something to make it easier for merchants over it. It makes no sense to me that like more merchants online don't accept Bitcoin, the currency of the internet. PayPal's been so, so anti-Bitcoin over the year. They've done so much bullshit, like just shutting down account. Like I've had like account flags and all kinds. of crap on PayPal. At this point, I just, if somebody wants to pay me in Fiat in any form,

I charge like a 15 to 20% premium. It's just like. Yeah. I thought we all canceled PayPal. Yeah, exactly. I remember when we all canceled PayPal. They canceled me. Yeah, exactly. They canceled most of us. Yeah. Yeah. We are a suspicious bunch. So it makes sense. Make sense. Yeah. I mean, I'm hopeful. I think, the number one thing that, well, I won't say it yet because we're going to find out why Katie's so bullish in a moment.

And I think it very eloquently ties into what we're talking about right now. But we're going to jump out. We'll do one last quick sponsor shout out. If you guys are watching, if you're enjoying the conversation, please do drop a like on the video. And yeah,

we're going to be back in just one minute and we're going to find out why Katie is so damn bullish. Let's see in a second. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile, Aqua Wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full control of your Bitcoin with secure self-custody. Aqua also supports lightning and liquid network, making fast, cheap Bitcoin payments and asset transfers easier than ever. Plus, it even supports stable coins giving you ultimate flexibility. Build on open-source code, Aqua is transparent, trustworthy, and perfect for beginner and pros alike.

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I'm mooted. Well, first, I'm bullish on all of our husbands doing the bad time without us. So shout out to that. Nice. But what I wanted to talk about today is I just got back from El Salvador. And I stayed for two months almost at Bitcoin Beach, which is the greatest Bitcoin circular economy right now in the world. And I've been there before. I've paid in Bitcoin before.

but this time I spent like a serious amount of time there to actually go ahead and meet locals and interact with all kinds of businesses, all kinds of people, entrepreneurs, etc. And it's settled with me that it's truly a circular economy to such an extent that it blows my mind. Like the one experience that was the most crazy one, me and my husband has been to the beach, he goes take a surf lesson. I'm in a different. bathing suit. I don't have a credit card. I don't have cash and I really, I'm hungry. I'm pregnant. I need a coconut. So I come to this lady who's like in her mid-60s probably and she sell coconuts that she probably got for free somewhere in a forest. And I'm like, do you have

a big lunch? She's like yeah. And that moment blew my mind. Just like random lady on the beach with six coconuts trying to sell them for a dollar and a half. And I was like, man, this is truly such an orange-pilled place and they did such a great job. And with Bitcoin adoption, it really doesn't go linearly, you know, like one people in whites two, two in whites four, etc. It feels like there are this big black holes of people like Twitter is one giant black hole that sucks people in definitely and we are radioactive. And same goes for this circular economies. There's this black hole, orange hole of Bitcoin Beach in Al-Zonte in El Salvador. And absolutely everybody living in this town got orange-pilled.

Because it was like two people and then it just kept spreading more and more. And it's so radioactive that the near town is starting to do that too. And it just sets more and more people in. And spending my time there, I also got to hang out with the Bitcoin Beach crew. and they're now doing the same in a bunch like they're teaching their framework or how they did it at bitcoin beach and they're sending like they're bringing people from africa showing them what they built here educating them how to orange people people how to onboard businesses what software to use what's the easiest way to accept bitcoin is a business and do accounting and then those people go back and start building their circular economies and like yeah we just discussed square square is going to be this giant

horge hole that will bring those merchants in but square is not all over the world yet so those circular economies i'm super bullish on it and i'm still under such an impression from what i've seen in al zonte in al salvador um super bullish on that the guys did like incredible job just mind-blowing i love that uh i only got to see bitcoin beach for like a day i was day and a half. It was very, very short-lived. But, you know, I didn't spend, I didn't use a credit card or anything the entire time was there, which was awesome. This would have been last year around the having party, which was a blast. And yeah, I think it's like when an idea works and takes hold.

It's cool to see these little seeds get planted and then replicated around the globe. Like you're saying, like people from Africa coming and learning. And I mean, those are places where it makes a ton of sense as well from multiple perspectives. Like one is like you're just cut off from banking. And so there's no opportunity. but also a lot of the times there, you know, the currencies are crap. The oftentimes it's quasi-terranical governments too. Like there's a lot of, in my doing work with like Human Rights Foundation,

there's a ton of African communities that come and they're learning. Oh, how do we use Bitcoin for this? Like our government shut down our bank accounts because we protested. So, you know, if they even had one. And so, yeah, I love seeing the different ways. And on top of that, Bitcoin Beach is a unique, a unique beast in that one, like the way that happened just to some anonymous Bitcoin or like, yo, I'll donate a bunch of Bitcoin, but you have to use it for this.

I want you to see if this will work. And years later, it's actually happening. but it's unique in that you know this is a small town and so it is possible to go person to person shop to shop and and try and make that work

and see if it's possible but you're also seeing efforts in large cities too and that's like it almost like an entirely different beast because it's one thing to say here's the main strip of merchants and we'll just hit every place down this block and really push and try and make it happen. But when you've got like a diverse group of bitcoins in a city of a million plus,

it's like how do you tackle that? Do you go after brick and mortar? Do you try and just create like a network of bit corners that know each other and then grow from there? And like it's it's so different from place to place. But people are, people wanted to happen and they're making it happen. Lugano is another example. Carly, you were just in Lugano. What was your experience there, like in terms of Bitcoin?

I know it's not every shop, but like, did you find some places? What was it like? Well, I spent it mostly at the conference because I really didn't have time to do anything outside of it. I'm seed one day and then I had a little guy with me the other day. So I didn't have much of a shopping spree. But, yeah, I mean, hundreds. of merchants are accepting it all over the city from, you know, what I heard other people doing. And I mean, the mayor is just really cool. Like his enthusiasm for the whole project is just like

so refreshing to see because I mean, again, I had never even not that this is saying much, but I'd never even heard of Lugano until, you know, all of this happened. And just like with El Salvador, it puts places on the map. It brings people that would have otherwise never gone there, never gone there and spent money there without having adopted some sort of Bitcoin strategy. So, you know, whether you're Latin America or Switzerland, like, it's awesome. It's representative of the whole system, I guess. It's a perfect juxtaposition of the two extremes. Like Bitcoin Beach, you go walk down the street and you buy your papusa on the street with some sats.

Or you have a coconut lady come out of the forest and you buy a coconut with sats. And in Logano, you go buy a Prada bag with certain. Spanitone. Yeah, yeah. Stacey, I'm curious about your experience, you know, different places you've been. Have you done a lot of spending Bitcoin? Have you found places in your travels going around? Like what has been your most immersive Bitcoin circular economy experience?

Not really. And this is going to be more of a rant. And I know you've done a lot of work to help onboard merchants. But I live in Boston. And we have merchants that come to BitDevs that want to talk to us about how they can start accepting Bitcoin. But it's kind of hard because the answer is like no one-size-fits-all solution. And what Square is doing makes me really bullish because it is a very easy way to do it. But I mean, there are so many different ways you can be sovereign about your Bitcoin stack,

especially if you want to accept Lightning, which then it's like, okay, do I run a Lightning node? do I manage all those channels and all that good stuff. But it took me a while to come around to just this whole idea of like spending my Bitcoin. I don't like spending my Bitcoin. But the more that I interact with people, especially outside the U.S., I realize like, it's just way easier. Why would I? So an example is for the Bitcoin Dev project, we're going to have a booth at Beatrust Developer Day ahead of the Africa Bitcoin Conference in about a month. And my colleague, Tudan, is running the Viguan Dev project.

is running the booth he lives in Nigeria I need to get him stickers it's going to cost me like $69 or something to mail to ship them it was like okay we're not doing that we're going to find a supplier in Nigeria found a supplier and I'm like okay you accept bitcoin and they're like no we don't you can try using something called like lemonade or yeah I didn't know about those I have since found out of a couple of other solutions called bitnob where I can deposit bitcoin and it will send fiat to the merchant but what I ended up having to do having to do is the merchant provided their bank account information and my colleague Tudan had to go pay them and then I reimbursed Tudon in Bitcoin. And that is just so roundabout backwards and not

easy for anyone involved. And so the more I do these things, the more I'm like, I wish I could just spend my Bitcoin. And yeah, I want to hear more success stories like Bitcoin Beach and Lugano because it makes my life easier. Yeah. Yeah. Many people ask me like, why would you, why would you go ahead and spend your Bitcoin? Well, my argument to that is you come to a place that made your currency, like made another huge step in legitimizing the asset that you believe in, and they did such a great job that the best thing you can do is come and spend your Bitcoin. So I was trying to do as many transactions as possible in Bitcoin and just support the local economy and they truly do appreciate it like another funny experience I was in the surf

city which is 10 minutes outside of Bitcoin Beach uh El Tunko and I come into this thrift shop and it's like my third week at El Salvador and the girl's like I'm new here I don't know how to accept Bitcoin I'm like don't worry about it I've seen everybody using Blink here let's do it so I help her do the transaction and the owner lady of the thrift shop is on the phone and I'm looking at this wallet and like this thrift shop got an SBR going on for them like they've been clearly accepting Bitcoin over time and like this for El Salvador the amount of Bitcoin they held was like extremely solid like many months of salary like probably years of salary of this employee and I was like good for them this is great this is what I want to support I'm thankful that they're meeting me with the asset that I want to spend and I'm going to appreciate. I'm going to appreciate. I'm appreciate it and pay them in Bitcoin. So I do encourage people, if you see the opportunity like that, do it. Like, legitimize the asset that you believe in.

Like spend and replace. Yes. Yeah. All right. I think, again, when, you know, what do you want this thing to be, right? Like I'd say most Bitcoiners would say, well, we want to, we want to replace the money. We want this to be the money. But if you're not willing to use the thing as like, who do you think is going to do it first?

Like who else is going to do it? You're the crazy one doing this first. You need to get crazier. Get crazy with us. Like you need to take the step and actually, you know, be the change that you want to see. And so, you know, like, and, you know, I get people, they get paid in in dollars. and then they carve out some of their dollars to buy Bitcoin and they save it and everything like that. But like, yeah, as Carla, as you said, spend and replace.

Or if you're an insane person like myself, just stop having dollars. Then you have to spend your Bitcoin. And it does an interesting thing to your brain when your money is just Bitcoin, it also makes you more carefully consider like what you're buying, right? Like, are you going to get the trinkety crap that you're going to replace in a year? or are you going to get like maybe the more expensive thing, but it's going to last you an entire lifetime? Like I tend to lean towards the quality.

And then furthermore, we've seen in Fiat land, the trajectory is progressively worse products over time, less bang for your buck, always shrinkflation, quality of the thing, shit falls apart. Your food is garbage. but in Bitcoin land, there's there's an ethos of trying to create things of quality that last. Not always like, yeah, there's still going to be trinkety crap that pops up. But like, who do you want to support? If you find somebody accepting Bitcoin that is also creating something of quality,

it's important that you support them with the money. that actually will allow them to function into the future. If that merchant that's creating something of quality gets paid in Bitcoin is able to spend less than they earn and save, then that gives them a runway to continue creating quality products. Whereas if you're like, I'm just going to spend my fiat on the shitty fiat stuff, then you're unintentionally potentially putting the person creating quality products out of business. so there's no good things to buy. It's on us as the people that are participating earliest in the better money

to make sure that people creating the better stuff can continue to do that. Sorry, rant there. I did want to also say in terms of the whole circular economy thing, if this is something that's not where you are, then again, if not you, then who, right? Start with the, start with the Bitcoiners. Go to the meetup. If there's a meetup, if there's not a meetup, start one.

But if there's Bitcoiners in your area, you guys already know it's better money. You already take some of your dollars or whatever local currency and buy Bitcoin with it. Why not cut out one of those steps? And one, accept it as money yourself. but actively tell people about it. Go to the meetup, not just once. Don't just slap a sticker on a window and think that people are just going to flock to your location. Like regularly interact with the bitcoins and say, oh yeah, like if you ever need this thing, come to me.

I accept Bitcoin. And vice versa. Like ask at the local meetup. What do you guys do? Like, would you accept Bitcoin for that if it's useful to you? That's kind of like that's the approach that we've taken in Calgary so far where I live. And so far so good. Like we run a market a couple times a year.

If I have one sec here. So yeah, we have, we have, this is and Stacy, you know art, but he's been integral in helping me kind of spearhead this thing. But we just created a local market here in Calgary. And we just went to the meetup and did exactly what I described. Okay, we all know Bitcoin's better money. You guys all have skills and businesses. Like, let's all accept Bitcoin and come together once in a while, but not just at the market,

but in between markets, if there's somebody that has something that you regularly need, use them, spend Bitcoin. And so we're actually doing another one coming up December 12th. So we're doing a Christmas market. But we get all kinds. We get like farmers with beef and chicken and eggs. We get like tradesmen, like people who do flooring. and roofing. There's a plumber because my kids love shoving stuff down the toilet. I'm putting

that dude's kids through college. He's been here. I'm not even kidding five times. So, but there's all kind of personal trainers. There's a chiropractor joining us this time. There's a whole bunch of stuff that we just aggregated either directly through the bitcoinsers just locally or kind of like a six degrees of Kevin Bacon. Hey, I'm looking for a chiropractor and somebody's like, Well, I know a guy, he's not a bit-koyner, but like I'll ask him if maybe he'd consider coming. And then it sparks this curiosity. And we've, every, every market we have, we have, I don't know, 40, 50 vendors, something like that. Which is solid.

And it's, we're spread out amongst a city of a million people. But like, we have a network beginning. So I think this can be replicated in large cities. And if you're in a small town like an Alzante, just walk down the street. start knocking on doors. I think it's I think it's worth doing. So yeah, I don't know.

Any final thoughts, Katie? I also found out that Bitcoin Beach is doing grants, grants for those small circular economies. So they're also dropping from 5,000 sets to something like 5 million sets into those circular economies to try and, you know, start up this movement. So they like, go ahead. They'll teach you how to orange peel people. teach you how to jumpstart this circular economy and there will be a grant to to help you get that

done so just absolutely God's work I definitely support that hell yeah love to see it um I'm wondering if I could just do one little final aside topic with you guys uh and that would be we're all parents here I want to hear you your hot tips on Bitcoin or parenting. Is there anything that you think might be different parenting as a Bitcoiner versus a fiatur? Is there anything that you guys have done? And I'm not sure how old all your kids are, or maybe it's something that you planned in the future or some way you're going to approach something.

But as Bitcoiners, what are you thinking in terms of parenting? that you might do different than your average parent? I'm in a trenches of it. I'm 30 weeks pregnant. I have a 3-year-old. I have a 1-year-old. And it's important to remember everything is a season. So just like, full market, bear market, you know what you're doing it for.

So same goes for parenting. Yeah, everything is a season. Somebody might be not sleeping. Somebody is potty training. Things might be hard. everything is a season try to enjoy it as much as you can bear markets are good for stacking bull markets are good for writing so just uh same thing sometimes things are hard and but you know why you do it for what you do it for so that's that's why i'm on kit number three in one bitcoin epoch

uh because why not that's a bullish epoch i like that how long can i keep doing it i don't know Go ahead, Stacey. My kids are two and four, so we're just getting ready to start thinking about kindergarten next year. And for me, I have found so much support in the Bitcoin community in terms of parenting. And I mean, Katie, you're talking about homeschooling all the time. Like I just compared to the people outside of Bitcoin who I talked to, maybe I haven't found the right community. I know that Massachusetts has homeschoolers.

It's not as popular as other states like Texas. But it's just like I tell people like, oh yeah, we're going to home. school next year on the playground and like it just gets weird it's they're not like the vibe is just off and um so while i don't have advice to bitcoiners for parenting things um if you are a parent i would say go to the bitcoinsers because like a lot of ideas that have come out of the bitcoin community the bitcoin parent community have been really valuable to me and i'm appreciative of that support and and everyone was called parents who i've all talked to separately about this. Carla, how about yourself?

Actually, to think about this one, because my guy's only two, but I think it's personal responsibility, right? Like, no one cares about your kid more than you do. No one cares about your Bitcoin more than you do. So it's on you. Do the work. Trust yourself. And don't expect, like, yeah, you can like listen and take advice, but don't trust verify and do it yourself. Trust yourself, but learn first. I love it. Katie, how old did you say your oldest is? Three.

Holy crap. Yeah, that's exactly where we at. Holy trust everywhere. Lots of potty training going on. Dedication, my friend. Wow. That's awesome. Well, I'll say, I mean, Stacey, you're probably the closest,

but in and around eight Tuttle Twins. Awesome. Tuttle Twins is great. My daughter just started in on that. We started doing, I got all like the, I think there's like 12 or 14 books, but I ordered them all.

And we actually had a teacher's strike. So I was, you know, my wife was doing a bunch of stuff. So Lisa was at home with our daughter, a bunch, trying to cover like the the core subjects and stuff. But there were a number of days where we got to kind of do stuff that I was like,

okay, here's what we're going to do here. And yeah, I just started with a couple of the Tuttle Twins books. And we just sit down, we read the book. And then there's a lot of the cartoon episodes that are on the same subject matter as the book. So like one of the first ones was just in and around like, the law and that was interesting and we there's another one about the money and so we we would read the book and then we'd watch the cartoon afterwards and so it's like a little like reward of like

okay we get through the book and like she's pretty was even into the book and she'd be curious and asking questions but then we get to watch the cartoon afterwards and she actually like she began to really internalize i was surprised lesson wise that she would understand a core concept Like I asked her, what would you think if the government promised you a whole bunch of free stuff? And she said something to the effect of, well, they have to get the stuff from somewhere. So that means somebody had to like make the stuff. So like, are they taking it from other people? or so it's like it's piecing together just like core concepts of like shit just doesn't come for free

like somebody somewhere did work to make that thing and so like they're so good at distilling that type of information in in a digestible way so anyways tuttle twins if anybody watching has not heard of Tuttle Twins, books and cartoons, incredible, incredible stuff. Nice. I'll check them out. I've heard of them. I've never watched their stuff. I just love that people are making this.

And I am very curious to see how this generation grows up on the Bitcoin standard, like that has grown up on the Bitcoin standard, how they react to it. Because for us learning about Bitcoin, I felt like for me, at least, it was such a change to my current, like, model of how money works and what the government. does. And for these children who have no nothing else to hold as a frame of reference, I'm curious. Will they be a generation of self-sovereign individuals? Maybe. I hope so. I hope so. Well, I mean, thank you guys for the additional family tips here. I'm sure there's going to be many future parents, even watching in the chat and everything,

that we'll be able to glean something. And for all the other thoughts on them, everything we discussed today. I'll quickly just go around and ask where if you want to point people to anything to check out, then please send them that way. So Stacey, I'll start with you. Where can people find you? What do you want to point them towards? You can find me at Satsy on just about every platform. And for the work that I do, I work on the Bitcoin Dev project where BitcoinDevs. XYZ and I'm also want to give a plug to the payjoin foundation, which is doing some really great stuff. Nice. That's awesome. Katie, I'll go to you next. Absolutely. I'm plan B passport on Twitter. And for the last six plus years, I've been helping Bitcoiners to get a second

passport for their benefits. So I still do that at citizenx.com. You can schedule a free consultation with us and we'll brainstorm what jurisdiction is best for you. So that's that's how you can find me. Awesome. And Katie, again, I've got to give you a shout out. You helped Lisa get her second passport as well just through lineage. And there's this whole fancy her dad ended up doing it too. But it could be this whole fancy like presentation box and everything and you get your passport and all. It's crazy. But it was, it was, she found it super easy. So, so, so huge thank you for that. We, we appreciate that. That's what we hear for. Awesome. Awesome. Carla, I'll toss it to you last. I'm Carla Bitcoin. You can find me at Carla Bitcoin. I don't do anything anymore. I'm just a shit

poster now, but my husband has a podcast. So check that out. I haven't even been on that. He hasn't invited me. Awkward. What a, he's fired. Is there any chance that, we'll get a a crypto-cruple Christmas thing. I am going to do a Christmas song, yes. Because I always do the Christmas song. I'm already starting to write it. Okay. All right.

Christmas wouldn't have been, it'd be like a Christmas without snow. I know. It's like I've been doing, I think, the last four years. So yeah, I'm doing the Christmas song.

Okay. If it's out by the time I do my Christmas special, can I, can I throw up on there? Yes, yes. Perfect. I love it.

Awesome. Okay. Ladies, thank you so much for joining. me. Again, everybody that watched, please check them out in the show notes, follow what they're doing. And thanks for coming and getting bullish with me on a Wednesday evening. I appreciate you all. Thank you, Ben. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Good to see all ladies. See you soon. Cheers. Hey, you. Yes, you watching the Bitcoin price movements and the latest

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