BTC Sessions - MAJOR WARNING: $95 BILLION Paper Bitcoin ATTACK No One Sees Coming | Larry Lepard, Kratter, Anil

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

A $95 billion paper Bitcoin attack is unfolding behind the scenes—and almost no one sees it coming. Larry Lepard, Matthew Kratter, and Anil Patel break down how this could shake the entire crypto market and what smart Bitcoiners need to do now.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/JimCriderTXhttps://x.com/Bquittemhttps://x.com/djvaleriebloveFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCpCRYPTOCLOAKShttps://qrco.de/bg5Dvo#btc #bitcoin #crypto

The countdown, I'll go. Okay. Hopefully. Hopefully we're live again. We'll just get a Neil in here again, and I'll make sure that we're going. So everybody that is on the stream, I just heard Neil come in. Oh. And is that a Neil?

Did it name? It says Nathan back. Yeah. That might be. Oh, no, that's actually Nathan here to tell. to help. We're getting feedback that's working now. We're getting success, yay, back.

So it appears to be alive. So all we need to do is recover a Neil. There we go. All right. All right. Okay. So it looks like everything is working again. Wow.

Okay. And it's on the same stream. So that's positive. Okay, good. We'll do some fancy playing around here. Anyways, gentlemen, you heard my little rant off the top. Let's just dive right into it. You know, I was saying, Anil, you're literally writing the book on this.

Matthew, I saw you drop some videos recently on Bitcoin Treasury companies with a nuanced take on it. Larry, I'm sure you've got thoughts in and around this. So my general question to you guys is, where do you sit on this massive trend of, you know, we love Bitcoin buy our stock? Is this okay? Is this okay for now? Is this a problem that is brewing? Where do you sit? So maybe Anil, I'll go to you first, then Matthew, and then I'll get Larry's take.

So Anil, where are you at with this? You're writing the book on it. Yeah, but I'd probably defer to these two gigabrains here. I guess my take is it's fairly inevitable. There's a lot of capital out there that just cannot access spot Bitcoin. via their mandates, so they're going to look for other avenues to get that exposure. But I got to throw it over to Matthew and Larry for this one. All right, Matthew, I'll toss it to you.

I saw, you know, you chatting a little bit about maybe the difference between somebody like Microstrategy and Sailor versus other entrants. Where do you sit on the whole Bitcoin Treasury trend this year? Well, I would say that there are risks that people aren't aware of. And there's certainly a lot of passion in the space as well. If you say anything negative about them, you get, I'm not sure if they're bots or AI agents or real people. Maybe that's why we got taken offline here. I don't know.

Yeah, exactly. But I think one of the risks that, I think it's risky for people who don't have a trad-fied background and may not be aware of all the intricacies when it comes to capital structure, when it comes to the order in case there's a liquidation. And people are aware of the problems with debt. But one thing I highlighted in a recent video is that there can be a problem for a company that is unable to issue debt and tap the credit markets. If they're small or micro or medium-sized market cap, this wouldn't really apply to a micro strategy, but you could be subject to the Bitcoin Treasury Congress. company could be subject to a speculative attack or some sort of hedge fund attack where they're

doing basically what Channos is doing. Jim Chanos is doing a micro strategy right now. They go short the common stock. They go along Bitcoin. They bet on MNAV compression. And if they're able to ever get that MNAV down to one or even below one and the market and that company doesn't have access to credit markets to borrow money to try to buy more Bitcoin or buy back their stock, they could be in this sort of.

of dead zone where they're just hovering one-to-one just backed by their Bitcoin and people will lose interest because they're no longer getting the leverage. Like why hold one of these if you might as well hold the ETF at that point and you're not subject to operational and counterparty risk. So I think I think there are a lot of intricacies and I worry that people aren't familiar with all the things that can go wrong with publicly traded companies. Larry, do you want to tap any very long? Good point. Yeah, I would just make the following comment. I've had several A lot of investors and friends ask me about these things.

And I strongly believe that the core of everybody's Bitcoin investment strategy should be coins where you hold them yourself in cold storage. And, you know, this is the best performing asset in history of the world. It's going to continue to be that. And, you know, I kind of say to people start there. You need to have cold storage coins full stop. I think I saw somebody on Twitter recently, a young fellow posted that he had sold all his coins. he was using it to buy Metaplanet. I thought, oh, you know, I hit my head.

I was like, no, no, no, no. That's not what you're supposed to do. Not, and that's not a knock on meta planet, by the way. It's just an observation about the nature of this asset. It's very volatile, and it's going to perform extremely well. So when you decide you want to perform even better than this asset, you know, fine, but understand that doing so involves risk, and these companies have risk attached. There's several risks.

One, there's the management risk. I mean, who's to say the management teams aren't going to get greedy and pay themselves big salaries? particularly if they have control positions or they own all the voting stock. I mean, we've seen that in the miners, you know, guys like Fred Thiel paying themselves 40 million bucks a year. And, you know, there's obviously all the other capital market risks associated with taking on leverage. And, you know, leverage kills. I mean, it can enhance returns, but it can also crush you.

And so, you know, my view is, so my overall view is, look, anything that supports Bitcoin and leads to more Bitcoin adoption and Bitcoin usage and Bitcoin accumulation, that's generally speaking good, particularly if it goes into strong hands. What I wonder is at the margin, if some of these companies will be strong hands or they'll be weak hands. And the reason I say that, as you alluded to in your prelude, Ben, was it just that if they get too levered up, they have two large a commitment in terms of debt or dividend payments. And the price swoons, then they're going to have to sell Bitcoin to make their commitments. So that's obviously the risk.

And some of the MNAB multiples are quite high. I tend to believe that the MNAV multiples will kind of collapse towards Sailor's MNAV multiple of somewhere between one and a half and two and a half. I mean, you know, what Sailor's done is brilliant. And, you know, he's figured out a way to let pools of capital that can't directly own Bitcoin, you know, participate in the sense that, you know, they might get a nice dividend yield or convert yield, you know, with upside. And so to me, that's great.

We're demonetizing all these other financial assets and that's a good thing. But as with anything else, there will be excesses. And we haven't been through a full cycle. And so I just caution people, you know, with respect to that issue. I think that's what Matt, you know, kind of alluded to as well. Yeah. Yeah, I'd echo that, especially the point of, you know, somebody selling coins to exclusively hold Bitcoin treasury companies.

I feel like that's completely missing the point. I was actually, yeah, I was tagged in a tweet earlier today. And this is, again, Jeff Walton, he talks a lot about micro strategy, but he's saying that, you know, Bitcoin and Cold Storage should always be step number one. And again, somebody here asking, hey, you know, I've been in Tramify banking 20 years, recently got orange-pilled. Why would I need to have one Bitcoin in Cold Storage first if Micro Strategy is 2x BTC, help me understand? And somebody got tagged. And I mean, the main point is that, you know, Bitcoin itself is the thing. Whereas when you're buying, you know, a treasury company stock, you're trying to get exposure to the thing through the counterparty risk of the promises of the company, right?

Like you're, and so like, I feel like if somebody wants to go and speculate on those things, it's a free market. You can absolutely go and do that, but you should have some Bitcoin. You should have, and I would say that your allocation to Bitcoin should definitely be larger than your allocation to treasury companies. I think people discount the importance of good self-custy way, way, way too much. And again, like if, I mean, you're at the place. If you're watching right now and you're like, I only own treasury companies and I don't own any Bitcoin myself, please, please fix that. Please learn how to get some Bitcoin, get it into self-custy, get it into a hardware wallet, like a cold card or something like that. And just begin that journey because that's how you actually truly protect yourself and become self-sovereign.

It's important. And there's lots of resources for that. There you go. There's a QR code and you can scan that and there's literally a single page of every resource that you need for free to learn how to self-custody. So go do that if you have not already. But I digress. We're here to talk about why you gents are bullish. And so I'm very excited to have so many great minds in a single stream here.

And so I'm going to tee up the first reason for being bullish. And actually, Matt, I'm going to toss it to you first. And you're going to get the same question. Everybody gets. But Matthew, why are you bullish? What are you so excited about currently? I'm excited on, obviously, it's nice to see the price hitting the fiat price and dollars hitting new highs or getting close.

I'm excited on some other metrics besides price, though, that there seems to finally be a sea change in the community where people are waking up and realizing that we have really two main centralization problems in Bitcoin. And the first one is obviously mining pool centralization, where we have just a few people in the world creating these block templates and deciding what goes into a block. And that's obviously a very dangerous place to be. And the second point of centralization is we have one main software implementation, of the Bitcoin Consensus Rules, the reference implementation,

which is Bitcoin Core. And I've spent a lot of time on the channel, those who follow this, talking about just the problems, the recent problems with, it appears that Bitcoin Core has gone rogue. And there's this disturbing trend we've been seeing really since 2023 where there's increased tolerance among the, you might even say the Bitcoin intelligentsia,

increased tolerance of spam. And so the two things I'm bullockers. I'm bullish on, I'm bullish on Bitcoin Notts adoption, which we're really seeing, just seeing movement away from having one centralized software implementation. And of course, Bitcoin Notts is, is Bitcoin Core plus the work of Luke Dashr and some patches and some things that make a lot of sense. But just this change in thinking where people are, it's almost like what's happening in politics globally. We're seeing these realignments. We're seeing people waking up in many different ways. So the two movements would be people moving to Bitcoin knots, which can be largely symbolic,

though it does have an effect on the network. And also, I'm very happy to see, even though I'm not affiliated, I don't have equity or options or not compensated anyway, I'm very excited to see ocean mining's hash rate taking off because what they have is a very good product. You can use their datum gateway, use datum to create your own block templates and do solo mining or you can mine with them. And this is, I'm not sure how much people realize what a problem this is, especially as we see Trump's coalition falling apart. And I'm sort of extrapolating to 2028, expecting everything to sort of move to the left again in the U.S.

And if we still have centralized mining and we have foundry here and we have these attack vectors from the U.S. government, that's going to be a real problem. So to the extent, we can decentralize block template construction over the next three years. this will solve one of the last remaining problems. And then Bitcoin, really, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I'm I'm going to, um, I guess kind of tag into it a little bit and then tee up, uh, some of the other, uh, our other guests, um, just for thoughts or questions, but, um, you know, as it, as it pertains to knots itself. I think the, it's very encouraging to see that when there's an implementation that, you know, puts forward a change to how that implementation works, that it doesn't have full

consensus where a lot of people are saying, do we want to change this? That there is a very real reaction from people that are running nodes. You can actually see a difference in distribution of who's running what, which is a signal to further say that, hey, you can't just do anything and have people go along with it. There's a very real feedback to that.

And whether or not Nauts gets to a threshold where the filtering and those things have, a larger effect on the network to the point where it actually really filters out those things. I don't know. But the main point is that there's feedback for when developers go against the grain or go against, you know, what a large swath of people would prefer. There's, you know, it's supposed to be, if there's not consensus, then it's the status quo. And that doesn't seem to be what happened specifically.

specifically with the latest update in core. And so, yeah, I find it very encouraging. I don't know what knots is at right now. Is it like 13%, 14%, something like that of nodes being run? Which is it? It depends if you're filtering out. It looks like Bitcoin Core is running some AWS instances. And so you've got to, Luke Dasher has a better, he's got a website,

which tracks these things and treats like AWS as a single as a single note. But yeah, we're at Coin Dance. I think we're something like 13, 14%. Yeah. And just in a couple of months, it's unbelievable. Yeah. And that's quite a meaningful percentage. Even just as a symbolic, like, hey, there's a degree of unhappiness with the direction of development.

And the other thing in regards to ocean mining, so for those that are uncertain, you know, what they've done, basically right now, typically if you're mining with most mining pools, those mining pools decide what transactions get into the next block. They're the ones that basically create that template. Okay, we're going to grab these transactions and put them through. whereas with ocean you know you can pick your own template you can say these are the transactions that I want in and so what that does is when you have people in a pool where you can actually choose your own block template it further prevents censorship of like again if you have centralized mining a lot of centralized mining and for instance a nation state says oh anybody transacting with this address, we're going to exclude them, exclude their transactions.

It's not to say that those transactions wouldn't necessarily get through eventually, but it's going to be a lot more expensive to get those transactions through. And there may be instances if the centralization is high enough where, you know, existing large mining pools may not build on top of a block that has sanctioned transactions. That's a great part. And so that could become a problem. So when you're implementing mining pools that allow people to create their own block template, it means that the mining pool doesn't get to say anything about what goes into the block.

It's the individual miner who wins the block and mines it. They say this is what's in the block. And so you don't have to. We got to a point years ago where, what was it, ghash.io got to over 50% of over 50% of hash rate. And again, the issue there, like people eventually migrated to other mining pools. And if a mining pool started to censor right now, people would have to migrate. But with an example like Ocean, you don't have to migrate in that instance.

When it comes to censorship, you just, you set your block template as you please. So it further decentralizes things. It further prevents censorship. And I mean, same with when it comes to Nantes and Core, it kind of decentralizes things. So I'm a fan of multiple implementations. And I think that might be the first inklings of, you know, I don't toss around the term lightly, but ossification, dare I say, where it becomes much more difficult to make changes to Bitcoin if there are many different implementations that actually have a large threshold of users. way harder to mess around with,

let alone, oh, we're going to increase the supply cap of Bitcoin or something. Nobody's going to screw with that. So anyways, I'm going to went on a bit of a rant there. But Anil, Larry, either of you, if you have comments or questions about anything, like if you're unfamiliar, toss them out. Yeah, I don't know. Do you guys have thoughts on any of this? I don't know. I just think, you know, I don't like that.

to make decisions until I fully understand the choices in front of me. And it just goes back to the beauty of Bitcoin's backwards compatibility in that no one is forced to make a decision at the moment. They can keep running on a previous version of core to see how it plays out or until they fully understand what's going on here. So again, I just think that's the beautiful thing about Bitcoin. There is a fairly small window there though, because at some point the current version of core if you don't want to upgrade the current version probably going to be some problem with the

software and you'll be there'll be some security holes or something so that's that's when push really comes to shove in three to nine months yeah fair enough larry am i'm i don't have i don't have a strong view on this one or the i don't feel technically competent to weigh in on it the people i know and respect support knots and uh and support you know what ocean's trying to do in terms of templates and also the the fact that ocean just pays better than all the other pools. And, you know, it sounded to me as if core somewhat misbehaved. I watched some of the interactions and the way they kind of treated everybody I thought was not so great.

And I do recall a conversation with Sailor at his place way back, a bunch of us there. And we asked him, we said, what could go wrong with Bitcoin? And what are you concerned about? I said, well, the only thing I'm really concerned about is that human beings have a tendency to tinker. and this thing's pretty good. And if we got a bunch of court people doing the wrong shit, that wouldn't be a good thing.

And so I don't know if this qualifies. I don't know how big a threat, you know, Nazis addressing, because I'm not technical, but I do know that, you know, I think it's great that there are people in the community standing up and trying to defend what I consider to be the core reason that Bitcoin exists, and that is monetary sovereignty, you know, separating money from state. I mean, you know, NFTs, you know all this other shit that they try and put on the network i mean to me that's always been

a distraction against the core mission of of the coins so and i'm glad people pushing back yeah yeah absolutely um it's basically it's a d-dos attack on bitcoin and whenever you see the spam come through we certainly saw it um people like anita posh you know doing evangelism in africa and trying to get people to open up their wallets and you know they're all they're all full of fees or 500 sats per v byte or something and it's a it's a gamified ddase attack so i think it's actually i think it's actually very serious and we can be lulled into complacency thinking well they're just selling pictures and they're just jpegs but once you start if these things can be monetized and if the culture changes and this becomes the way that people begin to interact with bitcoin then it's

very dangerous i don't disagree with that based on what i've heard yeah yeah 100 percent um anybody that is watching and curious about really any of the stuff that we're discussing running core versus knots being able to even if you're just tinkering with mining at home using some little like something like a bitax or something um again peruse through the channel there's tutorials on you know how do i switch from core to knots uh how do i run a home miner how do i use something like datum and ocean mining. So there's tutorials on literally every single thing that we outlined here. Encourage you to check it out.

And again, I'm going to keep on showing this because I think it's important that people level up. But some mining stuff and everything is on the zero to hero page. So keep learning. Never stop. You know, it's great to stack stats, but you also got to stack your skills. So gentlemen, we're going to continue on. I'm going to give a quick sponsor shout out in a sec here. But on the other side of the hop, we're going to find out why Anil is so damn bullish.

So we will see you guys in just a sec. If everybody watching, please give that like button a slap. Appreciate you guys being here. And we'll be back in just a minute. See you guys soon. Bitcoin Well is the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S. And now with Bitcoin Well Infinite, it's also the best place to be making large buys at their OTC desk of over $50,000. Their white glove service gives you fast transactions, no slippage, and the lowest fees.

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You can head over to debify.com to check them out or simply scan the QR code on the screen. All right, we're going to give away some quick sats before we get into the next reason for being bullish. So all you need is a lightning wallet. And I'm just here on Bitcoin well. I'm going to toss a coin in the well. Basically, when you sign up by Bitcoin, all that stuff. for friends, you earn points. And you can toss them into the well to win sats.

Today, 618 sats for whoever scans it first with their lightning wallet. If you do snag the sats before everybody else, which is exactly what happens. Nobody gets it other than the first person. Let us know in the chat. Love to hear it. Anyways, we are going to continue on. And Anil, I'm going to put you up here. And same question everybody gets.

Danielle, why are you bullish? I'm bullish because it's getting easier to find signal amongst the noise. And if you know me, you know I care a lot about education. And there are some great events out there all around the world. And finally, there is an awesome event here in Vancouver where I am. It's called Learning Bitcoin. It's happening in mid-August at the beautiful Vancouver Convention Center. Ben, you are speaking yourself.

Francis from all Bitcoin is speaking. You don't get much higher signal than that. Our mayor, who was personally orange-pilled by Jeff Booth, will be speaking. And you get a ticket for, I think, around about $100. So it's also excellent value. And it's purely about education. No noise. Straight to it.

And I think even the My First Bitcoin guys are throwing a unconference the day before. as well. So a lot of great conferences out there. I think this will join the ranks of the likes of you know, BitBlock Boom and BTC Prague. Oh, and while I'm on the topic of education, just because he probably won't do it, I got to plug Larry's book. He gave me a copy on the way out of Bitcoin Vegas recently. I read it cover to cover in a single flight and it's really become my now go-to-book Oh, thank you. That's kind. Yeah, it does an incredible job, Larry.

So congratulations again. I appreciate that. Yeah, thanks. Got mine signed with a block height and everything. It's great. Thanks for that, Larry. Matt, I owe you one. You got to give me your address.

I'll send you one. I appreciate that. I'll definitely take you up on it. Just be it out on the show, Matt. It's fine. Hit my DM with your mailing address and I'll send you a sign back. Okay. So, and Neil, I want to kind of pull on this thread a little bit because you

You know, going to events, typically a lot of people's experience and mine up until recently, it's like you go there and you watch some talks and you talk to other people. And it's a lot of like, hey, Bitcoin is so great. Here's the reasons why Bitcoin is so great. And let's talk about them. And then people do nothing. They'd like there's no subsequent action. Yeah, they might, they might, you know, get some Bitcoin.

But like there's not, there's learning of the why, but not the how. And so that's kind of what you're on right now. You're saying like that is, that is shifting. Like how are you kind of seeing that, that shift taking place? I think typically people change their behavior when they're forced to, you know, pain is information. And I think the result of. the global economic conditions, more people are in pain and they're looking for a answer to why that is.

And hopefully if they're curious enough to figure out the answer or the root cause, then they'll be able to understand what a potential solution might look like. And I think more people now than at any point in say, you know, the Federal Reserve's history actually know what the Federal Reserve is. So to me, that is incredibly bullish. And that's the first step. Yeah, 100%. I think I've been seeing a lot more of kind of the hands on, you know, how do I actually use and secure Bitcoin. And a lot of that going around. And that makes me super bullish.

I mean, that's kind of my, you know, the whole reason for the channel. And that's kind of my wheelhouse. And I've been seeing more of that incorporated into good events, right? And prominently so, which is great. So like learning Bitcoin, I didn't get out to it last year, but I'm very excited to get out there this year. And Pablo from Bull Bitcoin is going to be one of the hosts of day one, I believe. And that dude is just an absolute boss, incredible educator. He was actually out here in Calgary for the Bitcoin Rodeo just a week and a bit ago.

And then he also joined myself and Nathan from the show here and the other guys from Bitcoin Mentor. And we did like a full day Bitcoin survival workshop out in the Rocky Mountains, which was amazing. And we went through, it was like a six and a half hour workshop. And we did like set up a cold card, learned how to pair it with mobile and desktop and did like a multi-sig and coin join and all this different stuff. I think it was the most I've ever taught to a single group of people in a single day. It was unreal. But like, again, the people are hungry for this stuff. Like when we ask people, do you want like a longer break or do you want a short break to grab a coffee and come back?

They're like short break, 20 minutes and we're back in. So like they slogged through basically six and a half hours of like brain melting Bitcoin skills in a single day, which is crazy. So hats off to, you know, if anybody's watching this, that made it up to the Rocky Mountain Workshop. Kudos to you, because that was a lot. But I think there's more of this coming down the pipe, right? Like we've got, you know, the Vancouver event. I also want to give a hats off to Bitcoin Atlantis in Madeira because Andre there, who organized, I, you know, I came to him with an idea.

And he just ran with it. And there was just like a full workshop area that I was able to curate of like skills, like hands on walking through skills, taking questions and everything. And that was probably one of the busiest that I've ever been at a conference, but the most rewarding because so many people packed that room to learn these skills. So I think it's super important. And I love that you brought up the education topic here. I want to maybe go to each, you know, barring any other questions that you guys have.

But in the panel, I'm kind of curious what you guys would say are some of the core skills that you think, you know, either a newcomer Bitcoiner should have or maybe getting a little bit further into their journey. Like, maybe I'll go to Larry first. Like, when, as you were getting into Bitcoin and kind of understanding a few things, what would you say are like the couple core skills? Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously running a node is a good skill to have. But I don't think that's as essential. Probably the first one is actually just being comfortable doing transactions and getting your Bitcoin off of an exchange. You know, in my case, it was getting hell out of Coinbase.

It was such a piece of shit. And finding who the good, the better brokers are. And I tend to use strike and river as my two choices. Others, people use other choices. But then, of course, custody, self-custody and cold storage and, you know, BIP 39, the, you know, the 12 words and all is essential. And I try and train all of my clients. And I have a lot of clients that, you know, I advise that, you know,

the first thing they've got to do is get a core, you know, get a wallet and, you know, establish, put a little bit of Bitcoin on it and then wipe the wallet out and then reestablish it. do that a few more times until they develop a real comfort with the fact that those words represent the coins and that they understand how to do it and that, you know, the nuclear launch code are the words. And so you've got to secure the words and you're good. And, you know, I think in my case, I know you guys use lots of different things and support lots of different things, including the cold card. I haven't actually gone to the cold card yet.

I've just been a simple treasurer guy all along. I think, you know, the high-att treasurer product is a very good product. And so I've talked, I've walked through many, many treasurer demos with my boomer clients. And I think it's essential because I do believe that someday, you know, the blue team could win. And, you know, they could come back and try and tax or grab or, you know, go after the ETS, whatever. And so having self-custody Bitcoin is, and that's job number one. If you want to be able to separate money in state, you've got to take your money and separate from anything that the state touches and all the all the all the

companies you know the state can touch them i mean if the state calls up unchanged and says give us all your bitcoin uh you know they're gonna have a problem right but if you're if you're on your own you know you're good to go you can leave the country you've still got your wealth so to me that's the the core skill i mean there are a lot beyond that i know and you've done i mean you've got 16 million views i'm amazing right you've done so many so much good work in this area So I'd kind of throw it back to you. I mean, what am I missing? What's the next level after you've got yourself secured on a cold wallet?

What do you do next? So, I mean, I'll go to the other guys in a sec here. But what I'll say to you, Larry, is we've got to get you out to the mountains next year. And I'll give you that free cold card workshop. Okay. Yeah, we'll probably do. I will say that, especially like the newer treasors that now have added a secure element, stuff like that, and the Bitcoin-only firmware.

They've definitely done some good work there, and it is a very easy-to-use device. I actually just recorded a side-by-side comparison video of like five different hardware devices that I looked at that I'm going to put out soon. But yeah, Cold Card, I would – I think that's kind of like in terms of hardware. it's interesting when you use some other devices and kind of like the proprietary software that goes with them and then you jump to something like a cold card the first foray into it you're like what what the hell am I looking at and then all the sudden you're like oh my god this is giving me so much more uh of an understanding of what I'm looking at and oh I see like my UTXOs and I see like the transaction grant and you so like

bit by bit you learn the basics and then you start asking what's that thing there and you you level up and what's this button do and you level up it's it's like a it's it's like a whole new aha moment as you interact i'm here for it i just i need i need to sit down with you and have a have a personal instruction session we'll do it we'll do it awesome well uh i will tag in there after but um maybe I'll go to Matthew and then Anil just in terms of what do you guys think are core Bitcoiners skills that would be great for people to level up with. So Matthew, I'll start with you. Well, I think we can take guidance from Satoshi's app, which was obviously the first

app. And that was a node and it was a wallet and it was a miner all in one. You could press the button. It was well before my time, but you press the button, generate coin. and I came late to mining. We talked about this the last time I was on the show, that that was my week of scale, and I've learned a lot since then.

I think it does make sense to start with cold storage and a hardware wallet, but quickly, quickly, and that's one reason I like Sparrow, and I know you've done some great tutorials on it as well, because you can start with Sparrow, you can set up a hot wallet, you can use a public node, a public electric server, and then you can link your cold card to it,

then you can eventually you can migrate to your own node, et cetera. And then you, with things to start nine, then you can bring in the mining piece with Datum gateway and your bidax. But I like to think of Satoshi's app. So it's node, wallet, and miner. Nice. Larry is like, holy shit, what am I getting myself into? No, I know I got to go there.

You can do it, Larry. It's, you do much harder things. Even a boomer can learn it. Yeah, no, I'm sure if I apply myself, I'll do it. I just, I feel like I've got the first step and, and I know I've got to go to multi-sig and do a lot of other things, but that's, that's down the road a little bit. Yeah. You know, I mean, again, it's, it's typically, it's just a, it's a worry for people because they just haven't done it yet. It's just anything unfamiliar is going to seem more until you've done it once or twice, and then it becomes easier and easier.

So, but, Neil, I'll go to you as well. What do you figure are some of the core skills that, you know, Bitcoiners, should look at and level up with. I'll give you two. First is watching your channel. And the reason is, I think if we went back one cycle, two cycles, there are a lot of things that were prudent to do, that people didn't do because it was intimidating.

And now there is no excuse. Like you will walk someone through step by step, setting up a call card, for example. And I now personally only recommend cold card to people who are at that step. And even if you're not, I would still recommend getting one because the education you will get from using it, even experimentally, will more than pay for itself. The second piece, I think, you know, the way you can level up that is very, very simple, and almost no one does it, is read history. Read more history. Understand all the attack vectors

that are out there that will, you know, be cyclical and come back again. And that way you will avoid blowup risk. Yeah. So that's my main one. I like that. Yeah, absolutely. I'll echo that cold card thing there as well. And caveat.

Hey, they're a sponsor the channel. But I quartered them. I hunted down Rodolfo and I said you should sponsor the channel because I use the shit out of your product. So, but yeah, it's, I mean, is the medium becomes the education, right? Like, just by asking questions of what you're doing, you, you have these moments where you're like, oh, now I understand Bitcoin better. So it's, it's definitely, you know, a great pathway to being a better Bitcoiner, in my opinion.

But I digress. Anil, this was a fantastic topic. I'm huge on the education front, obviously. And I'll show it one more time again, just because I really, I'm so passionate about people leveling up. But please do check out the zero to hero page. There's a ton of content there, but I've just kind of laid out like a few single videos for each topic from beginner to intermediate to advanced so that you can kind of, you know, check out some options. But then there's playlist below for more options on each type of wallet or node or whatever. And then the other thing I'll say is if you're going to be in the Vancouver area, do I still have that link in front of me?

I don't know if I do. But please do go to Learning Bitcoin. Anil off the top of your head, is it learningb Bitcoin.com? Is that right? It might be. It might be. LearningBitcoin.ca. Yes, head to learningbitcoin.

dot CA if you're going to be in the Vancouver area. And once again, it's August 16th and 17th, some great educational hands-on opportunities, some great talks, some great people there. I'm looking forward to being there as well. So yeah, it should be a good time. But with that, we're going to jump to one more break on the other side of it. Larry, I'm looking right at you. I'm curious why you're so good. I have, I have a complaint. as to why you're so bullish. Where macro's coming. Yeah, we'll hear about it in just a minute.

Everybody that's watching the stream, please do drop a like. It's very, very helpful. And we'll be back in just a sec with Larry Lepard and the reason why he's so bullish. See you guys in a minute. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile,

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to win a cold card cue for free. And we'll just let you know. We'll let coin kite know, and you'll be able to claim and ship your cold card queue if you happen to be a winner. But with that, Larry, I'm going to bring you up beside me, and I'm going to tee you up with the same question everybody gets. Larry, why are you so damn bullish?

I'm incredibly bullish. You know, what's going on in macro world is really quite amazing. and I'm not sure everybody's focused on it aware of what's happened. I mean, just to kind of recap the last six months, you know, Trump came in and they talked, they put Doge into place, and they talked about trying to balance the budget. And, you know, I've often said the one thing,

the one case against Bitcoin or gold as investments would be if the government ever got its act together and balanced the budget. And, you know, so Elon comes in with Vivek, and they're going to take two trillion out, which, of course, is ridiculous. And then one trillion. And that was pretty ridiculous too. And now it turns out it's maybe $100 billion.

And it's all good. I mean, I applaud the effort. But, you know, what they found is that Lynn's statement is true. Nothing stops the train. And so the Doge effort is, you know, maybe going to save a couple hundred billion a year. And then they come with the tariffs, very aggressively, rather poorly explained, etc., trying to solve that problem. And they immediately tanked the stock market and realize, oh, shit, we can't do that.

You know, another reason why kind of nothing's, stops this train. And so he puts a 90-day tariff delay on to get the stock market back up because he needs the stock market up. So if the stock market rolls over, tax receipts roll over, the economy rolls over. So, and of course, then the acronym Taco got, you know, coined. And, you know, so the tariffs, you know, come and go and then they get delayed. Now he's coming back at them. We'll see how the market reacts to that. But, and then finally, the final piece of this puzzle that I thought was very interesting was that originally the sent criticized Yellen for, you know,

going to short-term issuance on all the bonds, you know, when she had a chance in the 2021 timeframe to term out a lot of the debt at lower interest rates. And he criticized that decision. He implied that maybe he would term them out, you know, as well. But what we've seen very recently is he has absolutely no plan of doing that. In fact, he's going the other direction

and they're shoving everything into the short-term, you know, short-term bills. in terms of the money that they're raising to cover the deficits. They just increase the amount of short-term bills that they're going to issue two times, 25 billion times two. And he announced he's going to try and take the TGA up to 500 billion. And that's relevant. The TGA is the Treasury's checking account.

And the TGA is what he's been using to buy the longer bonds when they become illiquid or when the bond market gets closer to the tenure, which they watch very carefully. When it gets to 4-4 now, when it gets to 4-5 or 4-6, they get very nervous. goes to five they have a heart attack and so what you're seeing is you know from time to time he's using the tGA to go in and buy buy bonds um and you know all of these things really indicate that the the federal government is trapped and of course because he's a democrat because he hates um you know Powell's not willing to play along and so you know you've seen this incredible verbal attack the president on Powell i mean coming out sending him

and note and saying the rates are wrong and implying that we should take rates down to, you know, 100 basis points to drop them by 300 basis points, taking down a one and a quarter or something and, you know, very, very aggressively calling on him to resign, etc. And of course, the more he does this, the more Powell will dig in because Paul wants to be remembered as Volker and he doesn't want to have the whole thing blow up on his watch. And maybe he can get it, get out till next May. But then they came in with another strategy, which I find fascinating, which is they said, okay, well, you're not going to leave. You're not going to cut rates for us. that's simple. We're going to create a shadow fed president. We might even appoint somebody now

to be the next head of the Federal Reserve. And by the way, we'll probably pick somebody who's extremely doveish. And then hopefully what the market will do is they'll look through, you know, the next nine months or 10 months from between now and next May, knowing that when that guy gets in or gal gets in at that time, we're going back to ZERP and QE. And so, you know, that'll juice the markets. And then I guess there's one more piece of the whole plank, somewhere along the line in here, percent and Trump and others kind of threw up their arms and admitted, well, this is when the big, beautiful bill came down, right? And they were going to cut expenses.

And of course, the whole Freedom Caucus has disappeared. And there are only two people left in that, you know, Rand Paul and Thomas Massey. And, of course, Trump attacked them aggressively. And, you know, they ended up increasing the deficit, increasing the spending, increasing the debt limit, but Trump came around the other side and said, but don't worry, we're going to outgrow it. And so, you know, what that implies to me, and I watched the stock market recover, and I thought the stock market cracking on the terrace was a serious crack that wouldn't be recovered from. And here we are at new all-time highs.

And so I'm beginning to think that what we're looking at here is actually what Von Mises described as a crack-up boom, which is, you know, they just keep printing money and finding sources of money to shove into the system. And everything goes up because it has to go up. And so anyone who studied history, as Neil alluded to, you know, Venezuel market, the Weimar, I mean, stock markets in inflation, highly inflation economies can do pretty well because it reached stocks represent a claim on a business as earnings, future earnings. And so, you know, it feels to me like that's the direction that they're aiming to take

us and whether they'll be successful at doing that. I don't know. But one thing is for sure, you know, if Trump is going to emphasize growth, he's going to need cheaper money to do it. He's already angling to get that and he will get that. We know for a fact next May. And so my sense is, you know, this is, you know, the big print, so to speak. I mean, it may not be coming tomorrow, but it's definitely coming sometime before the middle of next year.

And markets are forward looking, right? They don't just look at what's happening now. They look at what they expect to happen. And if they, if we do a shadow fed president and we continue our assault on Powell, you know, I think there's a very good. chance that the, you know, the asset markets are going to look through all this and, you know, Bitcoin's going to 400 and gold's going to 5,000. So, you know, I'm incredibly bulled up on what I see happening because even Trump himself has admitted that we can't balance the budget.

He supported the big, beautiful bill. And he's taken the path, which says that we're going to grow our way out of it. And there's only one way to get the kind of GDP growth that they're looking for, and that's massive inflation. And the only way to get massive inflation is to, to get massive growth in the money supply, which of course we all know has to be coming. And that's what my book outlined has to eventually happen. And they've had a lot of tricky ways of doing it. I mean, there's, you know, in the, you know,

in the Genius Act, there's something that says that, you know, three trillion dollars of bank reserves that are stored with the Fed might be able to be used. And this is kind of gray to back stable coins. And you know, Trump is talking about how big they are on stable coins. Of course, they're huge stable. supporters because it's you know there were three trillion dollars of stable coins then those as we all

know the stable coin issuers are huge buyers of the treasuries and we got a lot of treasuries to sell so so so kind of you know wrapping all of that up you know it's it's not coming in the traditional fashion we don't have zirp yet we don't have q e yet although they did cut the qt from 25 trillion or billion a month to to five and and and maybe if something breaks the fed will be forced to act before Powell leaves, but even if they're not, we know what's coming come next May. So, you know, the big print in my view is still imminent and the markets, I believe, will front run it. And that's why Bitcoin's an all-time high today and gold is bumping up right against its all-time high. So that's a lot. Can I just say? I'm sorry to interrupt you.

No, no, that's it. I mean, I'm done. I love being in this room where none of us seem remotely excited about the all-time high because that's the signal. Everyone's looking out long-term, not getting caught in the high, but I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, talk to me when it gets to 200, right? I mean, then I'll be like, all right. Now we're talking.

I feel something again. Yeah, yeah, I feel something. I mean, and I feel like that's, I've been telling my clients. I mean, I think we're 140 to 200, you know, within 12 months easily. Yeah. So Larry, I want to ask you just in regards to, so the big beautiful bill, if I'm not mistaken, that adds, what, five trillion addition? Over a 10-year window, I think. Yeah. And so. How does this compare historically to? Well, it's just, I mean, we're already, so we're already running $200 billion, or $2 trillion annualized run rate deficits, where we're at right now. Now, to be fair,

you know, Doge did accomplish some things, and it's probably knocking 100 or 200 off of that. And I just read that the tariffs are bringing in 20 to 30 a month, so call maybe another 200 there. So that all helps, but then if you turn around and look at the big, beautiful bill and you look at just the defense, I mean, here's an area where, you know, I got surprised. I thought Trump was anti-war.

I thought Trump might actually go after the defense budget. I mean, I sat at a conference and talked to David Stockman. He said, that's the biggest, pile of shit in the in the country i mean we're spending you know almost a trillion dollars on defense and it's not even smartly spent we're spending it on big things that drones can take out we should be spending it on drones because drones will be the future of warfare um and you know i thought maybe trump would keep defense flat but no it's gone up um partly because of the war in israel but you know also because of ukraine etc and so you know i just don't see anything that

slows down this spending. I mean, at the end of the day, the system is constructed in a way that even the Freedom Caucus that ran on the whole issue of controlling spending, they all got rolled over by Trump. And, you know, so be it. I mean, if that's the case, fine. I think the answer is we prepare for a crack-up boom, you know, and the price of, you know, the good news is the price of Bitcoin is going to be higher, the price of gold is going to be higher, et cetera, except. The bad news is, you know, we're going to get another wave of food inflation, similar to what happened the last time around where, you know, money supply grew 40% in the COVID example. So it's, you know, it is what it is. It's the system we live in. And I think ultimately it'll,

it'll fall apart and Bitcoin will be the numeraire. But, you know, we probably got a few backs and forth before we get to that stage. Did you see that was it, I think it was today that Trump was basically saying that we're the the the interest rate is at least three points too high basically yeah no he he wants free money i mean he's a debt guy he's a real estate guy and they need free money i mean they really do i mean you know look at the we're spending over we've got 37 trillion in debt we're spending close to a trillion two or three i'm sure the run rate on the interest costs If you took those short-term bills down to 1%, you would cut your interest costs substantially.

Now, I'm not sure necessarily who's going to be buying those bills at 1%. I mean, I think it's, you know, you get into real problems. I mean, the federal government is bankrupt, and it's kind of like it's close to checkmate. And so how quickly it unwinds, I can't say, but it, you know, it could unwind pretty quickly. I mean, what happens if we wake up one day and Bitcoin's at 400 and gold's at 10,000? I mean, to me, that's a sovereign debt crisis.

I mean, we're kind of on the cusp of a sovereign debt crisis right now. And, you know, I think that it wouldn't take a lot more to shove us over the edge. You know, I mean, how are people going to react when these things start going up and Bitcoin starts going up $10,000 a day? You know, or gold starts going up $500 a day. I mean, it's, you know, this is a, I mean, the model, and I talk about it in my book, is it's smoke in a theater where a few people smell it and they get out, you know, and then eventually everybody knows it's there. I usually don't take questions from the audience in the middle of a stream, but I did see this

one, and I thought that, Larry, you might. Sure, I haven't been watching the stream because I've been talking about it. Yeah, so there's a dude, it's funny because he's always got quite good questions, but his screen name. It's hilarious. So this question from pood in the cereal, he says, Larry, thoughts on the M1 velocity barely rebounding since 2020 while M2 velocity has. Are they in favor of stable coins to increase liquidity? Liquidity before big print? So, I mean, I think the answer is yes. I mean, they're in favor of stable coins just because it helps them sell their debt. You know, M1 and M2 velocity have been slowly trending up.

I think it's interesting that the U.S. has not been printing much, but Canada, I just retweeted it this morning. You guys are doing great. Your M2 has grown about 8% a year. Really good at that up here. Yeah, you're great at that. And China is even a bigger number. And as we all know, it's global liquidity that matters because all the money is very fungible.

And so, yeah, it's, look, you can just see it and feel it coming. I mean, and what's really interesting to me, again, I point out just kind of wrapping all my comments into one is look at how the Trump administration, look at the change that's taken place from where we started to where we are now. You know, we started with, oh, we're going to balance the budget and we're going to put all these tariffs in. The tariffs are going to pay for everything. That's going to go down, blah, blah, blah. Now we're at, well, that didn't work so well. The market crater, when we put in the high tariffs, you know, let's party on Garth. And you know what?

We're going to grow our way out of this thing, you know? And if that means we got to cut rates by 300 basis points, well, then we're cutting them by 300 basis points. I mean, there's just no way you can't interpret that as being enormously inflationary. And it will be. And so I've often said this decades like the 70s where you had these waves of inflation, right? We had the first wave was COVID. And then Powell, you know, jumped in.

said, oh, no, no, no, I'm taking rates up fast, and he did. And he kind of got it back in the can, kind of. You know, it went from nine down to the three-ish. The targets, too. But now, you know, I think we're kind of looking at the beginning of the next wave, and it's probably only, you know, seven, eight months away. And the markets might front-run it, knowing that it's coming, right? Yeah, yeah, he's really teeing up what he would like,

potentially Besson to do when he gets. Well, that's right. I'm not sure if he'll pick Besson, though. He might pick Hassett. I mean, he's going to pick somebody, though, that's going to be very, very loose. And it's interesting. There was an article in New York Times this morning. It's, well, it doesn't matter who he picks if he does pick somebody who's loose.

You know, the board's, it's a board vote. But that's bullshit. I mean, the fact of the matters, if you read any history of the Federal Reserve, the chairman bullies everybody into what he wants to do. So if the chairman says we're going to Zerp and QE, we're going to Zerp and QE. And that's pretty much what they've got to do if they want to keep it going. in my view. And so we'll just have to wait and see. I mean, there are a lot of moves. I mean, I saw somebody tweeted today that Powell's going to resign. I don't think Powell's going to resign.

It's going to get a lot of grief, though. I tweeted out recently. You know, he's talking about doing a $2.5 billion renovation of the Eccles building in Washington, D.C. I mean, this is like the Marie Antoinette Award. I mean, you know, he's got a $200 billion deficit that the Fed has run that he's calling a deferred asset, which is total horseshit, you know. And he's got a, and he's got a, you know, and he's He blew the call on transitory inflation. I mean, he's in so many ways he's just been totally wrong. He cut rates twice to try and help Biden. It didn't work.

Now we've actually got lower inflation. He's not cutting rates, okay? And he's proposing that we spent $2.5 billion to renovate this old building in DC. I mean, you know, the guy, the guy is just, he's, he's living in another world. And that's fine. He can continue to live there and he can hold rates where they are. But what I think what he's going to find is that, you know, the markets are going to move beyond him pretty quickly because he's now officially, quote unquote, a short timer. You know, he's done in May.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, I want to defer to the rest of the panel. If you guys have things you wanted to tag in here or questions of Larry, Matthew or Anil, either you want to jump in. I'll jump in briefly. I remember that period during the bear market when a lot of us, there was, there was. the Bitcoin bear market. There was nothing to do except make macro videos and everyone was trying to time the money printers.

And so I made a lot of videos then. And the one I remember that most was I used this famous Robert Frost poem that's about the end of the world. Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice. And I use that as a metaphor for fires, of course, inflation and ice is deflation. And then I went through and looked at historically

and ice is deflation and austerity, which never works. because the politicians get thrown out. And so I think, you know, I agree with everything Larry said. And I think when you're trying to choose between austerity and growing your way out, the guy who is fond of gold toilets is not the guy you bring in to do austerity. Like Trump is, you don't think austerity. And so, but it would have been inevitable with Kamala or whomever. I was going to say, I mean, it was a better choice than the alternative.

But the thing I worry about is, okay, so now we're, four years from now, inflation is very high. Maybe the economy and employment have held together okay, but inflation is very, very high. And, you know, you get a politician similar to this guy in New York and comes and starts promising all kinds of things. People are hurting. UBI. And Team Blue wins. And, you know, Elizabeth Warren has got a real voice. And as far as she's concerned, you know, Bitcoin and gold are ruining the Keynesian economic model. And they need to be taxed and seized and all kinds of bad stuff, right? You know, that's, I mean, and there's history of chief executives making those kinds of decisions.

I mean, you know, it's supposed to, the monetary stuff is supposed to be in the Constitution. It's supposed to be controlled by Congress. But in fact, Nixon took us off the gold standard. Roosevelt seized the gold. You know, Lincoln printed greenbacks and created the first form of fiat. So, and none of them had any kind of congressional backing to do what they did. And so, you know, Mike, you know, Mike, we got to make hay here in this next four years because if Team Blue wins in four years, Stephanie Kelton's going to be Treasury Secretary. And that's, that's frankly how I think we get to hyperinflation.

Yeah. Well, Larry, you're making a great case for self-custody. Well, yeah, right. This is exactly why people need to self-custy their Bitcoin and not rely strictly on. Yeah, I mean, people should remember that. I mean, if the government were to call up Fidelity or BlackRock or any one of these ETFs and say, we've decided to outlaw Bitcoin in the United States, please send all those coins to us and pay your people out in the cash. Give them the cash they get for the coin.

Send them to us. We'll print the cash. You can have it. They're going to get cashed out at yesterday's price. You know, those organizations would have to do it. They would have to follow the law. Of course, the price of Bitcoin would soar, you know, the following day. But you wouldn't own any of it, you know, if you were in an ETF.

So those of us who are not, you know, we may not like it either. They might decide they want to tax us or come to our houses and grab it. But, you know, I'm chronically having these boating accidents. And, you know. You need both, man. You need both. Yeah, I mean, they're dangerous. And to be frank, I mean, you know, there's a point in time at which I'm not a citizen

in the United States anymore either. So I hope I never have to go there because I love this country. I want to fix it. But, you know, if the government goes rogue on Bitcoiners, you know, we're going to go rogue right back on them. Yeah, 100%. I hope so. Anil, I want to get any thoughts or questions or whatever you want to toss in here as well. I think it all comes back to everything we're talking about is just increasing uncertainty and increasing entropy.

And all the Bitcoiners kind of understand that. and they've opted out, which means the repercussions of everything that does happen in the future is just going to fall on fewer and fewer shoulders over time. So again, it's just like a call to action, you know, educate the ones you love, get them to understand this because it's at a point now where it's really important. That's right. I mean, that's why I wrote the book. I just wanted to try and help average people.

I mean, those of us who are aware of the macro can see this train, you know, that Lynn talks about. That's just coming down the track. And, you know, there's a lot. As Neil pointed earlier, one of the best things you can do is investors study history. There's so many historical examples of this. And to think that we can pursue all the policies that all these other countries pursued that led them to serious inflation, you know, depressions or hyperinflation and not have consequences, I mean, certainly we've been able to do it because we've been the reserve currency and we're the leading country in the world.

But that doesn't always have to be the case. So I think it's you know that's that's why we all Bitcoin right yeah a hundred percent Well gentlemen I am conscious of time here and we're we're coming up on our end but before we go I'm just going to do a quick round any any final thoughts a little tidbits you want to toss to people or recommendations for them to check out where they can find you anything for them to maybe watch or read or whatever and I'll just kind of go down the line line. Maybe Anil, I'll go to you first. And even though you might do it and not do it yourself, I'm going to bring up, here's the website. Is this the best place to be sending people to?

Yeah, that's a good place. So I have a book called The Bitcoin Handbook. If you want to grab it for free, head to my X handle, get a free copy later this year. Oh, actually also on that page, there's literally thousands of slides if you're ever giving a presentation on bitcoin you know there's no sponsors there's there's no noise it's all free uh use them if you're ever speaking at a meetup public speaking is hard let me solve like half of the problem for you and then later this year i will have uh as ben mentioned the uh my upcoming book is about um well it's actually taking the work of michael sailor a lot of his interview transcripts and speeches and putting it in a book that should be out in Q4 this year.

And as always, the digital version will be completely free for anyone. Awesome. Awesome. That's great. And the Neal's handle is in the show notes. So go check it out. Check out the website and check out the books, plural. I'll toss it over to Matthew next.

Of course, we got a show Bitcoin University here. Let's pump those numbers up. already a huge channel, 274,000 subscribers. You know, one of the absolute best in Bitcoin. Great content on the regular. But Matthew, any final thoughts? Anything you want to point people towards? I would just encourage people.

We really need people who take, we really need Bitcoin plebs who take Bitcoin seriously. If you're not running a node, if you're not mining, you need to do both of these things. If you love Bitcoin and if you want, humanity only has one chance for this. So I refer you to BTC Sessions Channel. He's got great tutorials, the one on bidax, the one on Sparrow Wallet, the one where he shows how to run a Bitcoin Notts Note, and then I've done my own on Bitcoin University. That's the most important thing you can do because we've got a little bit of breathing room here with Trump and the wheels are already coming off.

And I fear that things are going to get really, really bad in the coming years. And so we need an army of really strong plebs. running nodes, preferably running Bitcoin knots nodes so we can solve this problem and doing pleb mining as well. So please, please take that seriously. And there's just so much great free material on YouTube. Spend a weekend, spend a couple hours every weekend and really increase your skills and think forward what's going to what's going to happen because things could get really, really bad for American bitcoinsers, for Canadian bitcoinsers. What are we going to do? We're a decentralized, distributed movement. We've got a little bit of

breathing room here, but I'd encourage everyone to prepare and increase your skills. Absolutely. Love that. And Larry, I'll toss it to you, of course. Got the big point. First of all, I want to thank Matt and Neil for bringing out up. I haven't been familiar with your work on either of you, and I'm going to go dive in and I'm going to start running a Knot's node and try and level up BTC. I haven't been doing all my homework. I guess I watched the macro stuff too much, but obviously my contribution to the space has been the book. you know, some like it, some don't, but it's the best I could do. And, you know, I'm a book horror, as I say, I'm not, you know, you don't make much money on these books, but I do think

it's a decent tool for, you know, orange-pilling boomers. And that was kind of what it was written for. And hopefully we can kind of pass it around. And the more it goes viral, the more people that are aware of it, you know, I've had a lot of stories of success with it, some of failure. but I just encourage people to, you know, direct people to the book, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's a great read. Highly recommend. Go check it out.

And I guess to round out here, I'll say, again, go check out the zero to hero page. I'll plunk this along the bottom so that you guys can find it easily. But there's a little bit of everything here, hot wallets, cold wallets, you know, coin join, running a node, running your own lightning node, multi-sig, all this different stuff. And then there's playlists to dive deeper on all of those topics with various different options. So highly encourage you guys to check that out. And secondly, if you need actual handholding, like if you need like step by step, somebody's going to tell me exactly how to do this because you're worried to do it on your own.

Of course, I've got a team over at Bitcoin Mentor.io, all personally trained by myself. incredible educators. You can check them out as well. But with that, gentlemen, thank you so, so much. This was incredible. I really enjoyed this conversation and I really appreciate all of your time. And everybody, geez, across YouTube X, Rumble, looking like nearly nine or 10,000 people that have tuned in over the course of this stream, thanks for being here. Smash that like button. Share it wherever you're watching it. Really appreciate that. And with that, we're out.

Thank you so much, gentlemen. Thanks, guys. Yeah, share it, guys. We'll see you next time for your daily session. See you guys.