BTC Sessions - NEW: U.S Just ATTACKED Chinese Bitcoin Wallets FORCING $12.7B Bitcoin WAR

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

A shocking new report reveals the U.S. just launched a hidden Bitcoin offensive against a major global superpower — China. The result? A $12.7B Bitcoin war is now underway—and it’s escalating fast. In this video, we break down what’s really going on, who’s involved, and why this could change the future of global finance forever.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/_MattHill_https://x.com/countbtchttps://x.com/HodlDeeFOLLOW BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCp#btc #bitcoin #crypto

There's a shadow war unfolding in Bitcoin, and it's being waged by two of the most powerful countries on Earth. A new report just dropped, and China is accusing the U.S. of hacking its Bitcoin wallets to the tune of $13 billion. What's even more astounding is that this actually all happened back in 2020, long before Washington began talking publicly about holding Bitcoin as a reserve. Now, this wasn't your typical centralized exchange seizure. It was actually a direct wallet compromise, a brute force attack of wallet keys, allegedly executed by the Americans. It has echoes of the old CIA playbook written all over at MK Ultra with a digital battlefield twist.

So how did they pull it off? Are your coins at risk from similar types of attacks? And zooming out a bit, what are the greater implications of a digital war where nation states go after each other's Bitcoin to build up their own reserves? Today on Why Are We Bullish to discuss this and much more. We've got an awesome panel. Joining us, we have Matt Hill from Start Nine Labs, building a world of sovereign computing. We've got Nolan Bowerly, host of The Great Awakening over at Roxham TV. And we've got D from Coin Kite, makers of my favorite Bitcoin security solution.

The cold card, maybe if China was using one of those, they'd be better off. Either way, lock in, hit that like button, and stay tuned. It's going to be a killer episode. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. I want to welcome to the stage, Matt Hill, D, and Nolan. Good to see you, gents. How are you guys doing?

Doing great. Thanks for having me. Yeah, good to see you guys. It's been some time since I've seen all of you. So I'm glad to have you guys here. Perfect. In my opinion, given the topic at hand, a great panel of people to kind of opine on both the technicals and in the geopolitical implications here. So I'm just going to bring up this article here, just to outline a couple things.

And then I want to get your guys take on what's going on here. So I'll just snag this. So this is over at Bitbo. I'll throw us over on the side here. Yeah, so China accuses U.S. of stealing 127,000 Bitcoin in the Lubian hack seizure. So this was a, there's a big scam going on. It was actually focused out of Cambodia. But, yeah, China basically says 127,000 Bitcoin now valued at around $13 billion,

originally taken from the Lubian mining pool in 2020. So this was a report released by China's national computer virus emeritus. emergency response center, a very long name, again, accusing the U.S. government of seizing that Bitcoin. The agency claimed that a state-level hacking organization was responsible for the original theft and implied that the U.S. was behind both the hack and the eventual seizure. Their technical analysis highlighted by the state-run Global Times pointed to the use of advanced tools and suggested the operation deviated from typical criminal patterns. So, yeah, this is, the U.S. is saying that, well, this is a criminal law enforcement action,

and they took it from this guy. He was a chairman of Cambodia's Prince Group, and they're under indictment for fraud and money laundering and all these things. And so there was some forensic analysis done, and it tied the C's coins to what they refer to as vulnerable wallets. and they didn't attribute it to any specific state actor, but what did it show? So they said that first the coins, they were dormant for years, and then they were consolidated into wallets that are now tagged as U.S. government controlled. They explain that weak random number generation made the wallets susceptible to brute force attacks. and I'll maybe lean on you guys a little bit to chat about what that actually means technically.

But Chinese authorities, again, link U.S. custody of the assets to possible state involvement. Western researchers stress a lack of technical evidence for their claim, so not fully refuting it. But yeah, so overall, the long and the short of it is there were wallets that were brute-forced, meaning that they basically use computers to guess and guess and guess and guess until they were able to obtain the private keys and sweep the wallets of all their funds. So maybe, Dee, I kind of want to go to you first because you work in a realm where you deal with Bitcoin security all of the time. The cold card and tap signer, they generate keys. Can you explain a little bit what the hell is a low entropy wallet?

Yeah, so when you generate seed in the first place, you're looking to generate 256 bits of entropy, meaning that if you have a, we do this with dice with our wallets, right? Every time you roll a dice, it's kind of like you want to create a big random string, a very large number that no one else can guess. And if you can guess it, obviously that is very low entropy. So with dice rolls, every time you roll a dice, you get 2.58 bits of entropy. When you roll dice 100 times, you get 256 bits of entropy, meaning that it's very hard for someone to guess those 100 dice rolls again. If someone can guess the dice rolls that you did, then they can essentially recreate that wallet and then steal your funds. So because that string is so large or that number is so large, it is basically impossible to recreate those hundred dice rolls again. Similar to winning the lottery seven times over and over, right?

It's just a very large number, very hard to guess, almost impossible to guess, theoretically impossible. But I mean, I guess you could guess it if you figured it out. But yeah, so you just want to have a very long, random number that no one else can guess. If you have a very weak, if you only roll twice or three times, it's very easy for someone to replicate that and then take that seed phrase because it is on quote unquote low entropy. Yeah. So yeah, so that's kind of the just fit. Yeah. Yeah, I like the lottery analogy, right?

Yeah. You know, the lottery is hard to win because it's a bunch of random numbers that are seemingly very, very difficult to happen across. But if every single number was a one, you know, somebody's going to put one, one, one, one on their, you know, entry into the lottery. And then somebody could easily hit that. And it's the same thing. When you have a computer making guesses and you have infinite guesses, a computer can just start at, you. the very basic one one one one one one all the way across and check if there's a balance and that's effectively what they did they kept on guessing numbers that are very very easy to start from until

they saw a balance and then they took it and it's kind of astounding to me that they're you know somebody that was holding 13 billion dollars would have would have bitcoin in a low entropy wallet um a I'm curious if you want to touch on this too. Yeah, I'm a little hazy. This is the first I've heard about this. I'm in my own bubble a lot of the time. I'm a little hazy on kind of what is known versus what is accused or suspected and what actually happened. But maybe D, you know, can weigh in on this.

But you can't say like they identified an address that had 13,000 Bitcoin in it, right? Was it 13,000? $13 billion. $13 billion. $7,000 Bitcoin. Yeah. So say like you identify a wallet that has an enormous amount of Bitcoin and you, you associate it with an address or a public key, right?

I didn't think that brute forcing could be done in that direction. Like I thought you're just guessing private keys. So the fact that they couldn't have intentionally brute forced that particular wallet, they would have had to just be trying to brute force any and every wallet and just happened on a wallet with a boatload of Bitcoin that also happened to be. somebody who's Bitcoin they wanted to take? Like something is very, very fishy about the story. I'm not up to date fully on how, you know, obviously they could probably lie and say,

oh, it was a low entropy wallet, but maybe it was just stored an ICloud server somewhere and they just ripped it. But there are like older tools that people use in the past to create entropy that are flawed. There's a few examples. I can't name off the top of my head. But if you know that there's a flaw in that entropy generation, Then you can go back to what, say that version, put that on your computer and then use that as knowledge to brute force that wallet. So maybe they knew that they already had a low entropy wallet per se.

Maybe it wasn't just random. You know, they knew what they used to generate it. Took that. And then from there perhaps took the, took the Bitcoin. But it seemed very directed at them, right? It wasn't just some random guy just spinning up a bunch of low entropy wallets. Or maybe it was. I'm very sure.

The U.S. government, I don't remember. I'm just plucking this out of the Apple situation from a few years ago where, you know, they wanted Apple to unlock some phone. And Apple, like, took this stance. And there was all this theater around it. And they were like, no. And then finally, the U.S. government was just like, oh, never mind.

We didn't need you after all. We did it. Like they already have a history of like claiming to have brute forced encryption when without actually proving that they did. So I could see this as some sort of social engineering attack where the person actually gave up the keys and they thought it was more strategic to say that they brute forced it to kind of shock in awe people and scare people. I don't know. That's what this looks like in that the part that was missing from the story that you had there is the woman who was benefiting from all this Bitcoin was living a very lavatory. lifestyle in England trying to buy a castle like she was trying to be a citizen of Liberland she was trying to like even go around saying she was a Bitcoin

investor trying to make a real life in London of all places so it looks like there probably was a lot of social engineering and getting targeting this person in particular as someone who was of interest yeah now the point that I like about it is that indeed what's happening here is that the Chinese government is no, no, she's our criminal. We should have rights to this. So they're trying to make this, like, legal layer argument, which in Bitcoin is really fun watching like a nation state, say, actually, technically, excuse me, sir. That's actually my Bitcoin. Because, yeah, it's just great, because as we know, right, when you see the legal system, as it is, right, I come from the legal

world. And I remember that really striking me in the early days of understanding what Bitcoin meant the legal world where, as we understand, that, you know, possession is nine-tenths of the law in the normie world. But in Bitcoin, possession is really ten-tenths of the law. There really is a note debating. So that America and whatever deep state person was spying on this woman and conducted the social engineering attack, it's just fun to see another country try to use the excuse me, technically, she's our criminal, please hand over the Bitcoin. So it really makes Bitcoin shine, you know. And the lesson being, and I think it's a great lesson for all of us, if she would have just watched Matt Odell a little more, she could have stayed humble,

she could have kept her stack. She decided to go and buy castles in London and live a lifestyle, and now she's paying the consequences. Yeah, yeah. A quick, there's someone that commented, similar to like an auto card shuffler, right? If you know what the layers of cards that are going to be made by that shuffler already, you have an advantage to take that. But I definitely, my guess is it was a social engineering attack. They happen all the time. We get them a lot on on things like Telegram, unfortunately. Telegram is full of scammers and people impersonate all the time.

And they're like, hey, was, hey, Dee, was that you that just messaged me? It's like, no, it wasn't. It's like, oh, well, I just sent you or them $10,000. And you're like, why did you do that? Like, you know, I would never ask you. It says, do not. I will never DM you, you know. Obviously, it's way more sophisticated than that.

But social engineering attacks are probably what I would say is more likely in this situation where they extract it that way. I don't, if they say it's low entropy, then it's low entropy. But that just means that a lot of people that are running those brute forcing programs also could have had the opportunity to take this Bitcoin. So the fact that it was like very targeted, it does seem very likely that it was a social engineering attack. But again, we don't know the fact. So it's hard to.

Dee, I'm just for one final thing in here, a lot of people are, you know, that are relatively new to Bitcoin. We've been getting lots of people kind of coming in through through different avenues and and they're kind of maybe just starting their Bitcoin journey. And they're thinking like, well, shit, what if what if my wallet's low entropy? So I'm wondering if you can just change. chat about like, you know, does the average person need to be worried and how can they ensure that they don't have a crappy low entropy wallet that could be forced? Yeah, for most people, regardless of whatever hardware wallet you use that are popular today, you can reasonably rely on that device generating a huge random number for you.

Where things kind of get complicated is where people think that there may be, they want to be more sophisticated. They want to be more advanced. And they take the steps to, you know, roll their own entropy or, you know, have a different program that creates the entropy for them. That's not tested. I think those things are definitely a risk.

I think for your average newcomer, just, you know, click generate seed words and then write those down. You know, I think for, at least for people just getting into it, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you are worried about it, you can always just generate a new seed and transfer your Bitcoin over. Obviously, there are some that are better than others. I work for Coin Kite, so obviously I'm going to shill the MK4 and Colecard Q. You have the option to let the device use its true random number,

true random number generator inside the device to generate for you, or you can roll your own dice. We enforce 50 rules at least. So you have at least 128 bits of entropy for your wallet. Obviously, if you roll dice and press one every single time, you know, that could potentially be a low entropy wallet because you're not doing the generation properly. And the device only does what you tell it to do. There is something to be said about that.

You know, just just just, just, I think he, yeah, we got you though. All right. Yeah, did you get that? Yeah. So basically, you know, do some learning. Take some time. I always say $5 to $10, right? Learn to send it around. But yeah, like most devices today will give you a really good seed that you don't have to worry about. Yeah, 100%. Awesome. Well, okay, we're going to change gears. Obviously, we are here to find out what you guys are

currently excited about, why you're so bullish. And so we're going to go around to each of you and find out exactly that. And so, Matt, I'm glad to have you back. It's been some time and you're back and you're bullish on something. And I'm curious what it is. So the same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish, man? Sure.

Well, I'm not bullish on the price of Bitcoin right now. So we can get that out of the way. I'm sure that gets said a lot. It could do what it does. I mean, it could sky right, but I'm not bullish. I think we're in a, building phase now, which I love, by the way. So what I'm bullish about is actually very personal.

And maybe others will be able to share it with me. But we, Start 9 and myself are really coming out of what is the longest product release cycle of my entire life. I have never in my life, I've built a lot of things in a lot of different industries. And I have never spent over two years working one thing. thing before. And I'm talking like day in, day out all day, every day for two years. And these are, you know, talented people who work hard working on it. So it's not, didn't take two years because we were being lazy. It took two years because it's big and good. And we are nearing the end of that. So what I'm talking about here is StartOS 0.4.0, which was announced as a ambition over two years

ago and we've had, you know, a lot of things that we've done since then, like we've kept the ball rolling with service updates and even with a couple minor versions of the 035 series. But 040 really has been our focus for over two years now. And as of this week, multiple of us are now running O4O for our production servers and it is running well and it is stable and it is everything we wanted it to be and then some. And so I'm just, I'm so excited. I feel like a huge weight is not quite off yet, but in the process of lifting off of our shoulders, I think that we are going to surprise people with how good this thing actually is.

It's bigger and better than we pitched at the beginning even. So we kind of outdid ourselves. It took longer than we thought, which we apologize for because we should not have messaged it when we weren't absolutely certain, but you will not be disappointed. Furthermore, we are launching a surprise product that we needed to develop in parallel with StartOS 040 to kind of supplement or complement O4O's feature set, which is practically speaking, like just to give people a comparison is a tailscale alternative. So it is a self-hosted, fully open-source MIT licensed tailscale alternative.

And it goes a little further, too, because it can be used trivially to also expose services that you're running on your server through the cloud tailscale alternative for clear net hosting. So you're able to put things on the public internet without exposing your home IP. It acts as a reverse tunnel. We're calling this thing Start Tunnel. It is a self-hosted open-source wireguard VPN that is purpose built to enable either remote private VPN access to your server and any of its installed services or to expose any of those installed services to the public internet while obfuscating your home IP. And it is button, button works. There's no technical expertise required.

It has a beautiful GUI. You install it on any VPS, and about five minutes later, you're doing either of those things with total ease. And it's yours, fully self-hosted, no third parties, no intermediation, fully open source. So that is a sort of surprise. Everyone, look at what we built, that we're just giving away to the world. It really is totally outside of StartOS, right? This is like just a wire guard VPN solution that people could use for all sorts of things.

It just is something that we needed to complement O4O's network stack. to allow people to hide their home IPs, really. Wow. So we're giving that away. And also, we have made surprisingly fast progress, contrary to what we did with 040, surprisingly fast progress with our router product, which is much further along than most people realize,

and we'll definitely launch in 2026. So Start 9 router is coming, and it's going to be a game changer. Damn. Okay. Okay. So number of things. We need to touch on. First off, you know, all all the hardcore bitconers that are here watching are like,

holy shit, you know, when is this? Like, when can I get my hands on it? The people that are not hardcore bitcoiners are like, wait, what the hell is this? What you're talking about? Yeah. So like first, for the benefit of like newcomers, they're in Bitcoin. They're like, you know, start nine sovereign computing. Like what are the implications?

So can you give like just a quick TLDR, start nine, running a person? personal server at home, running your own private server, the why as it pertains to not only Bitcoin, but other aspects of your digital life. Yeah, from the highest level possible, whenever you use a computer, whether it's a phone, a tablet or a laptop, if you want data to synchronize across those devices, which is most use cases of a computer, if you want to message someone, if you want to save a photo, if you want to send a transaction via the Bitcoin network, anything, anything, it requires a server. So if you are not running a server, you are using somebody else's server for those basic computing needs.

And I'm talking about cloud services here, anything from iCloud to WhatsApp to signal, to Dropbox to somebody else's Bitcoin node. Whatever it is, we believe very strongly that the world is a better place and you are a more independent, secure human being if you are running your own server. And to date, that has been a very, very difficult, technically challenging thing to do. So what we build are software and hardware products that make running a personal server easy and accessible to anyone so that you can selectively cut out any aspect, any trusted third party or custodian from your digital life. You don't need to do it all. It's not an all or nothing game.

You can identify the assholes in your world that piss you off the most and cut them out first and gradually work your way towards total digital independence. many, many people that buy our servers or run them for free because it's just free software that you could install on your own computer, do so to run a Bitcoin node or a lightning node. I would say a majority of people who use our technology do it at least at first to do those things, but then gradually it becomes, it's like getting your first tattoo. You just want more and more after that. So we hope that we're, you know, Bitcoin's the orange pill.

We're the red pill. We're the full. We're the whole nine of take back your life, not just your money. That's amazing. Clearly you got a good reputation because everyone in the chat saying, you know, shut up and take my money basically. When is this when, when? We're running a business too, right?

And we provide excellent customer support and we warranty our hardware. Everything we build is open source. We give it away for free. You do not need us. But if you want that handhold and you want the warranty, we're here to help and that's where we really shine as a business. So anyway, look, we've, we screwed up with the 040 timeline and we're very open about that. We admit it and we apologize for it, but we are not fucking around here.

What's coming in 2026 is going to be game changing. And our router especially takes us to a whole new market, right? Like the market for people who run routers is dwarfs. I mean, it makes the Bitcoin market look like a pond compared to the ocean. So, you know, and that's not because like we need to get out of Bitcoin. It's just because we are a computing company, right? We have heavy ideological and market overlap with Bitcoin at the moment, but we, We are generally a sovereign computing company and Bitcoin is just one really, really important

application in the world of software and networks. But there are more. There are others and we are going to go after them. That's awesome. Nolan, I'm curious if you have any thoughts or questions in and around for Matt having heard what he just dropped here. Yeah. You know, when I look at what's going on with, because it's

you know, part of what I'm going to go into with some of the bullish stuff, but I was wondering, you know, you look at the cash app deployment of all these merchants and things like that. And I wonder, you know, can, are people able to really obfuscate physically where they are using this technology? Because I always knew that that attack vector would come, you know, for miners, for example, they look at the electricity use. And that's how the Venezuelans went around and targeted these folks. And you saw all these different things. And I wonder, with the merchant's aspect, you know, it's obviously not, maybe not going to be a problem in America, but other places because you can't deploy that cash app thing right now. Does it fit into any of these

consumer applications or some of these mining applications to really fight against state power? Is that is that what I'm understanding? So our baseline mission is to enable people to exist on the internet in a private, secure way, which involves the ability to obfuscate your identity and your location. And so, you know, when it comes to, say you wanted to host an e-commerce store, right, you wanted to sell something. Like, let's even get into like Ross Ulbrook, right? Like he went through painstaking efforts to set up and host Silk Road in a way where they didn't

know where the location of the server was or who was operating it. And eventually they were able to figure it out. But he had to go through an enormous amount of effort that many other people in the world would not have been able to accomplish. And even then, it was undermined. But still, the point is that we are lowering the barrier to digital privacy. And so if you wanted to, just using that example, operate an e-commerce store that was selling goods that were prohibited or frowned upon. Raw milk. Let's go with raw milk.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to sell raw milk. for Bitcoin. And I don't want the authorities to know who I am or where I am, right? You could set up a point of sale application on BTC pay server that is hosted entirely over Tor, set up the entire thing, and begin taking payments and sending out shipments in approximately five minutes using StartOS. And, you know, assuming the server was already set up, which itself takes about five to

10 minutes, but assuming it was already set up, you can set up a dark net e-commerce website in about five minutes and be off and running. Now, let's say you wanted to put that on the clear net. I wanted to put that on the public internet so that people could go to like my raw milk.com as opposed to some, you know, Tor hidden service URL.orgion, you are taking a huge risk, right? Like you are now going into the public. But that doesn't mean that you're just inherently doxed and shit out of luck. There are ways that you can do things on the public internet in a relatively anonymous way, unless law enforcement wants to target you, and then they're going to figure out who you are.

So if you're really doing something dangerous, don't put it on the public internet. But if you're just trying to obfuscate your identity from your customers or some naive snoopers, very easy to do using our technology now and start tunnel. So what you would do is you would, well, especially with our router. So our router is really, really cool because one of the features of the router, which I'll be showcasing all sorts of features from it in the coming months, but one of the features is the ability to seamlessly easily chain outbound BPNs together. So you'll be able to, for example, send your, please get that, you'll be able to send your request out through one VPN and then actually have it tunnel through another VPN and have it tunnel through another VPN. You can sort of just chain these things together indefinitely. And our stance is that so long as you have of two VPN providers in non-cooperative jurisdictions,

you're pretty much good to go on any front except for like, you know, the FBI is after you. And then they're going to be able to coordinate those things. But any naive snooper is not going to be able to put those two pieces together or even naive law enforcement won't be able to put them together. So what you could do is if you had the server in your home, right, you could. you could tunnel, you could put multiple layers of tunnel in place so that anyone visiting your e-commerce store sees some IP address of some random VPS. And then even if they were to call that VPS provider and be like, who owns this VPS? They still wouldn't be able to like unravel the ultimate location of the server. Because even if the VPS provider says, oh yeah, it's Matt, whoever, whatever,

it's like they then have to go to the next VPS provider and possibly the next VPS provider to kind of like undo your own onion routed self-built network. So the Chinese lady who had the thousand, 10,000 Bitcoin taken from the American government probably should have been in touch with you a few months ago, right? I mean, not me personally. Like, look, we build technology that gives people privacy, dignity, you know, censorship, resistance, the ability to speak, right? We stand for free speech and privacy and dignity.

if some people use that technology, we know people will use that technology for other reasons, whether they're moral and legal or moral and illegal or immoral and legal or immoral, whatever they fit on that matrix is really not. But Castle buying probably not a great idea. Probably not a good use case. That's an FBI worthy activity. We endorse moral use cases. We don't talk about legal versus illegal as much because that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,

and the law does not always align with right and wrong. But we do not endorse immoral use cases of our technology, and we will not assist anyone who's trying to use it for something that we consider to be immoral, but we also know that we can't stop anyone, and we think that's a good thing. Yeah, milk is a great example. That's why I bring it up. I mean, in this country here, you're going to be thrown in jail. Moral and illegal.

Yeah. Well, that's amazing. Yeah, so, Matt, you said public beta is happening soon-ish? What was the general idea of timeline? Public beta will happen when I wake up one morning and go, okay, we're not going to, nope, you know, this isn't going to kick our ass in support. Like, I want public beta does not mean bug-free and perfect. It means good enough, my standard is very high. Okay, when I say good for public beta, most people would say it's fine for production, but I really want.

We need this release to be seamless because we're already a year late, right? The last thing that we can do is penny pinch another week and ship it before it's fully ready. Like it needs to be a seamless update. It needs to be a bug free and stable and reliable and all the rest. So very, very soon. I'm using it in production and I can't find things wrong with it anymore. So we're really close. Amazing.

And when that becomes available, how do people that are running start? OS currently go about getting access to the public data? For public beta, you'll need to download the ISO from GitHub and flash your server. We're not going to make public beta available over the air. That's for production. When it goes to production, it'll show up as an update in your UI. You'll just click update. Okay, okay.

So if it's public beta, does that erase, if you flash it, does it erase what's, or no, it'll be okay. You're just flashing the operating system. All your data will go untouched. And when it updates to 040, the data will be migrated as it needs to be. That's part of the testing that's going on is because, you know, there's thousands of people out there running StartOS servers. And they all have slightly different configurations, different services installed, different states. Each of those services could be in an infinite number of different states. And so we're just testing endless configurations to make sure that those people will, their update will be seamless.

And that's like almost an it's an intractable. problem, but the more we do, the more confident will be that we've covered all the cases. And then once you're on 040, you'll want to update your services because while we built it backwards compatible, like you can update to 040 and all your system will just keep running. It'll just keep working. But you'll want to update your services to the latest versions that take advantage of all the new features of StartOS, right? the old ones will be kind of boring compared to the new ones.

The new ones are a lot fancier. They can do a lot more. Awesome. Yeah. I love to hear. Thanks, guys. I know it was long-winded, but I am very bullish. Very excited, I should say, about finally kind of getting some of this stuff out there.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited. As soon as that public beta is available, I will be chipping away at it. And then I'll put together a spicy tutorial to hopefully drop with the, with the production release. So yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Awesome. Jets. So we are going to, we're going to change gears and we're going to do a rotation and find out why the rest of you are bullish. We're going to do just a quick little shout out to sponsor the show of which D is one. So that'll be in there. Either way.

I'm off hour. Yeah, exactly. If you guys watching or enjoying the conversation, If you're stoked about the new StartOS update and you're having fun watching the show, please do drop a like on the show. And we will be back in just one minute to tell you why Dee is so damn bullish. Be right back. Bitcoin Well is the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the US.

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I'm going to give you the stage here. I'm going to tee you up with the same question that everybody gets. So, Dee, why are you bullish? Yeah. Just to touch on the cold card stuff in privacy, we delete all personal data after 120 days. We do what we can to make sure that any personal data you get. of us, we try and eliminate it as much as possible. As soon as you buy our device, we don't want to know anything about you.

And same with backwards compatibility kind of thing. If you want to upgrade your cool card for more features, you can do that, but you also don't have to upgrade your firmware. That's all up to you. So obviously, I'm bullish on cold storage, as always. Even if you click a malicious link online, you can't get your fund stolen because it's in cold storage. So having some friction there is actually beneficial. But my real reason for being bullish is kind of Bitcoin's immune system per se.

Obviously, a lot of us online or have heard about a lot of the controversy in Bitcoin regarding soft forks and policy and how you should run your node or what you can and can't do in consensus. and there has been, it seems like, a lot of divide in that sense, unfortunately, but I think it's out of love and passion rather than hate, even though, you know, there's kind of size being drawn and lines being, you know, lines being crossed or not cross, right? So it's a tough situation right now,

and I really just hope that everyone can discuss civilly, cordially, perhaps, And everyone has kind of their own thoughts on what Bitcoin is and isn't and what should and shouldn't be upgraded or allowed in consensus. And yeah, I think Bitcoin's immune system is important. If everyone just agreed on everything, then we'd all be yes men, you know, circle jerking each other. And we don't want to do that. Like, I don't think that's a prosperous future for Bitcoin. even if we disagree, it's okay to have differing opinions. And at the end of the day, kind of consensus rules all.

All of us run the same rules on our node, whether our policy is a little different or not. I don't think we have to get too far into the weeds on this subject. But yeah, just obviously that software proposal is being kind of talked about recently. there's always been a lot of podcasts on, you know, confiscation of funds and and reducing arbitrary data. You know, yeah, I think I'm just bullish on on Bitcoin's immune system and the fighting is, is good within reason as long as you're not name calling and, you know, being too far on either side, right?

I think there's obviously people that are just kind of starting to get tired. of it and just start name calling and just just hand waving away other people's opinion because they don't agree and then we get into these circular arguments and yeah so bitcoin's immune system is alive and well clearly and i think we're all passionate about bitcoin and really hope for its success i welcome all people to bitcoin within the rules that are set i'm not saying hey shitcoiners come on in and change Bitcoin, you know, you know, I'm new to Bitcoin and I'm here to fix it. I don't really agree with that stance, obviously, right? I don't think that's good.

But I think if we want Bitcoin to be a global monetary reserve asset or money, you know, people from other chains will eventually come to Bitcoin. And I think we are seeing that slowly. Obviously, there's kind of this culture shock perhaps in the past few years that people, have kind of been debating over because before Bitcoin really wasn't a chain for shitcoins or NFTs or all that. And then through the past few years, people have kind of been fighting and saying, you know, you can do that stuff over here. Like, go do it somewhere else. And it's almost like given those people more incentive to do it on Bitcoin. Like, it's like when your mom tells you like, no, you can't have that candy. And then you're like, I really want that candy now.

I'm going to do anything I can despite those people. So yeah, I know that was kind of a broad aspect there, but I think Bitcoin's immune system is alive and well, and I do welcome people to Bitcoin as long as they're not here to change it, per se, and just opening the conversation up there. One of the themes I use regularly on my show to talk about how political order, you know, the World War II consensus or whatever,

whatever people call it, the way institutions have functioned since World War II with centralized media. You know, the fault tolerance, you go back to these sort of adversarial environments, the cryptographic structure of these networks. And you think of it in terms of fault tolerance. The fault tolerance of the World War II consensus was really low. You know, if 10% of the people had too many questions about Kennedy, the immune system kicked in in the opposite way. You know, that's why you always get the added infinitum to Hitler all the time, and that's why things get reduced down to that very simple binary to make sure that there is a sort of narrative cohesion.

And one of the neat things about Nakamoto consensus, which I think is the error to the World War II consensus, because it really does have a fault tolerance of, you know, probably beyond the 49, the 51% attack, you know, there's all the sort of just the way the network works. It looks like we can handle a great amount of debate and still move forward. And that's a really big lesson for political systems. You see that in the end, I'll tie that into why I'm going to go.

But that's how I see it. It's the Nakamoto consensus that we see the network actually impacting the way Bitcoiners live their lives and that we can still handle debate, but get along. It's like politics used to be for normal people. Like everyone used to be able to disagree and still be friends. And it wasn't the end of the world. You could still go to the movies together and stuff. But World War II consensus and this collapse that it's undergoing right now

simply doesn't have the fault tolerance for that. The system is too weak and can't handle that kind of dissent. And that's why everyone's siloed and no one talks to each other and all these things. But Bitcoiners can disagree, still hang out. I was in La BitConf over the weekend in Buenos Aires and all the Bitcoins were having a good time together. Fighting as usual. Absolutely. It's like that Ned Flanders meme where, you know, Bitcoiners always like, like,

it's like, oh, you bickorners are contentious people are like, you made a, you made an enemy for life. Like, it's everyone's just, you know, fighting with everyone. And yeah, it is just, it does seem like we're getting divided. And I hope that everyone can have a different opinion without being like in two different camps. Like it really seems like these two different camps of people. You're either a shit coiner that supports illicit stuff on, on Bitcoin, or you're like the monetary maximalist. And like, I feel like there is this gray area. in the middle where a lot of people don't kind of fit in those two two camps and it's just getting

more and more blurred obviously yeah for every for every two bit corners you get three opinions citizens i want to hear the third opinion from matt i don't think i differ from their own um you know obviously debate is good and healthy uh arguing is unavoidable and ultimately um ultimately the truth and the incentives will play out. I don't want to be a determinist, like things have to either work out or they're doomed, right? It is up to us. We decide, you know, what happens. People decide.

And ultimately, that comes down to power. So, you know, I think, I personally think I've been very, very unfairly kind of pegged in this entire debate. because I have continued to have some very strong and I think sound opinions about relay policy and its place and effect that it has on the Bitcoin network. But saying anything along the lines of, you know, if a lot of node runners agree that a certain type of transaction should be rate limited, it's important that they have the tools to do so. Like saying something like that is not met.

on that field anymore saying something like that immediately caused this mental derivation of that sounds like a pro filter statement therefore this person is a nazi who wants bit 4-44 and i'm just like oh we've lost the nuance we've we've lost the ability to have productive conversations in a nuanced way at the moment and i'm not sitting here just sort of griping about that and saying like all is lost i'm just saying that um it has now come down to a game of force right like we've lost the nuance in the conversation I do not think the community, the broader Bitcoin community is going to come around to some sort of kumbaya compromise that makes everyone happy. I think some group or another, probably a more extreme faction, is going to kind of strong arm

the rest of the network in their direction. It's either going to be core or it's going to be a bunch of lawyers that make mining pools update to some soft fork that they weren't intending to or it's going to be, you know, the plebs just laying down the hammer in some unknown way that the network has never seen before. Who knows, but I just don't see this. It's either just going to like fizzle off in a long tale of disappointment and bitterness or there's going to be some kind of like rugpole where it's like, well, guess that conversation's over, but I didn't see that coming.

Those are the only two things. I don't think we're going to come together on this. I wish we could, but I don't think we're going to. People are too far apart and they're too emotionally involved. Yeah. In 2017, you had the catharsis of all the forks that happened. and that's sort of settled with a very clear answer. I'm not sure we're going to get there this time out of.

It does seem a little tribal for sure. It's a good. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. And I hope there can be nuance eventually. But yeah, I agree. It's tough.

But Ben, I'm just curious your thoughts kind of on the overall general thing. I think one of the positive things that has come out of this is, you know i'm i'm i'm not certain that uh you know that there's enough uh kind of support on either side to have like a or that there will be it shifting one way of the one way or the other because people decide to all lean one way or the other um but i think what's come out of this is there's now, there's now kind of a way to visibly voice, you know, displeasure with the direction of development in a very real way to the point where had had this not kind of, this, this argument and this, you know, kind of back and forth between Bitcoiners not come to

fruition, then it would primarily be, you know, 90, 90 plus, you know, high 90 percentile people just running one implementation. And what has happened now is there's a large swath of bitcoins running a different implementation. They work together fine right now, but there's nuance in how you run your node and people have choices. And I think in the long run, what that does is that let's say down the road there was a really contentious hard fork so those that don't know what that means non backwards compatible everybody must make the change at the same time if there was something contentious that came up you know in a world where there's kind of just like one main implementation and that implementation makes a change and you know most people

are running that. Yeah, you still got to get everybody to upgrade to it, but it's, you know, if there's, then there's more likelihood that it could work. But in a world where there's multiple implementations, it makes it even harder to execute something like that because you don't, you don't just have to convince the people that are currently running the same implementation to upgrade to the, or like to change the fork. But you also have to convince the other implement and the people running that to also fork and make those changes. So I think it just makes it more difficult to make really contentious major changes to Bitcoin in the future.

I think overall that's a good thing. Could be off base here, but that's been. You've got options. You've got options. If you don't agree with something, you can signal over here that, hey, I don't like this and I want to run something else. Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't know that signal was necessarily. taken. Sure. So I gave a talk at the Bitcoin conference that, you know, has made some rounds on X recently as well. And the thesis of the talk was that you want multiple layers of political activism. You don't want nukes or nothing, right? That is not a good extremist environment to exist in.

You want people to be able to appropriately express their will. Right. you want, that's what protests are for. That's why the state allows people to march through the street and express their will collectively because it is the feedback mechanism. And if you cut that off, what you end up with is pressure just builds until the people hang all the politicians in a violent revolution. And so you really want, you know, if possible, various layers, ways that people can express themselves. And so part of my talk was about that's sort of what a function of policy that was completely overlooked in all of this debate. It was all about whether

it works or not. Well, what do you mean by works? You're talking about to rate limit a certain type of transaction? Or you're talking about to let people express themselves and release the pressure because that's important too. Bitcoin's a political system, but nobody's thinking politically. They're only thinking technically or emotionally. They're not thinking politically. Politically, there's use case in these things. And so I was like, look, node operators, whether, you know, Pleb nodes or large economic nodes, only have two ways of expressing their political will and having it be done. One was through policy, right? And that only works if everyone's acting collectively. It only works if 90% plus of the nodes agree, in which case it starts

to have an effect on the network. And the other power that node operators have is fork, consensus. And so if you take away the node's ability to express their will in a diplomatic way, we'll call it, right, in a more harmless way through policy, then they're only left with one option. And so we saw that literally play out. I predicted this at the Bitcoin conference. I was like, guys, look, if, if Core cuts off people's ability to express their desire to limit the size of an opertern transaction and policy, they're going to try to do it through a software. Now, everyone then accused me of wanting to fork Bitcoin and everything, but I'm just, I'm just trying to analyze the battlefield for everyone to try to spread understanding. But every time I think I'm stating some sort of fact and observation, everyone's like, you're trying, like they're applying intent.

So I've kind of backed off a little bit. And then I come back because I'm a sucker for pain. But like, but yeah, I mean, we're watching it happen now. There's a constituency of people in the world who feel totally disenfranchised. And they've now been silenced to a degree with their ability to do it in a harmful, harmless or less harmful way. And now they're attempting to fork. And it's like, that's what you should have seen that coming.

And maybe that's a total nothing burger. And it'll just fade away and fail and everyone will make fun of them. but at the same time, it's like, that's a whole constituency of good Bitcoiners that you've just sort of like, you know, exercised from the system. And it's not good. It's not long-term good. I appreciated your talk with Isabella. I listened to that yesterday. It was a good.

It was a good one. And same with tone and Jimmy, Jimmy song. That little kind of, they've got like a five-part series going on right now. And I think the podcast. way of talking and not like, you know, online keyboard warrior, wariering it is good. I think it's definitely helpful to a lot of people because people are just very uninformed and you're just kind of laying out the situation and saying this is what may or may not happen.

And yeah, so these are what, this is what they're going to do. And I'm not, you know, whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. This is kind of just what their options are and what they're, what they're, they're thinking. So I think podcasts like this and the part series with Tone and Jimmy and yours with Isabella was a good one for people to reference in this regard for sure. I appreciate that, right? I'm trying to figure this out as we go too. I'm not right about everything. I make mistakes. People think that those mistakes are some sort of like covert like I'm not like guys, I'm trying to think this through and help others to think it through. And who am I to do that? Well, it's like,

25% of the nodes on the Bitcoin network are running on my operating system on StartOS. So it's like, I have a view of the field that many people do not have. We are being asked constantly by our customers and community what to do. And does it matter if I run knots and what should I set my data carrier size to? And it's like, I'm trying to. I found myself like not at the center, but as a participant in something that I didn't even fully understand myself. And I'm both trying to figure it out and help others to figure it out in a honest, high integrity way.

And again, it's fine. You know, yeah. The trickiest part about, you know, this kind of contentious debate here is, you know, somebody in the chat said, if BlackRock forked Bitcoin, it very clearly wouldn't be Bitcoin. The tough part is when Bitcoiners have a divergence of opinion of how big. a quenched work and it comes to something like a chain split like a fork that's where things get tricky right that's where it's like well shit you know it's it's very clear when black rock's like this is real bitcoin you're like no it's not but but when when bitconers are going at other bitcoiners saying no this is the real this is the real thing um that's a a little bit more difficult to navigate

you know as as much as it hindsight is 2020 and you can look back and say, no, that's B-Cash. No, that's B-SV. And, you know, those are shitcoin forks. At the time, you know, people had opinions and picked sides and everything. And there was definitely times where I'm sitting there going like, holy shit, on cash, hash rate is getting pretty high. Is that big coin?

Yeah. Yeah. Like price starts rocketing. And it seems like it might eventually get as high as big. And it's like, crap. Like, you know, my morals are telling me this is the thing. But like, you know, what if, what if I'm, what if I'm wrong? And, you know, yeah.

You can hold both. If you really, if you're really worried about it, you always just do nothing. Obviously, doing nothing is still a stance, right? But I don't think this is going to cause like a hard fork or anything, like two separate coins. But, yeah, if you don't think we end up with a chain split. No, exactly. And you can always just kind of sit and wait and just leave your coins alone for, a little while while the dust settles perhaps.

But yeah, just to wrap it all up, I think all of this is good for Bitcoiners because there's a lot of people that are learning a lot of stuff that they didn't maybe know about before, especially in regards to policy and consensus. And if you can take it as a learning, you know, you can take it a, it's a learning opportunity. That's what I'm trying to say. And I think a lot of people are getting involved. and learning a lot. And yeah, I think we're better for it.

In the short term, it can be not so pleasant as we can all see. But hopefully we come out stronger for sure. And we're all still here. 100%. Now, we are going to change gears here. We're going to come back. We're going to find out why Nolan is so damn bullish. But Matt, I know you have a hard out.

I know you've got a bit us ado here. But thank you for coming on and telling us about the new release. I'm super stoked. Is there anything you want to point people towards anything before you head out? No, just stay tuned. We'll be making a lot of announcements soon. And Nolan, sorry, man. Sorry, Ben.

We're not going to have a heart out right now. We'll catch you next time, Matt. So I look forward to talking to you guys again at some point in the near future. Thank you all. Nice time with you, Matt. All right. Cheers, Matt. And everybody, stick around.

If you're enjoying the conversation so far, please do smash that like button. We're going to give one last quick shout out to our sponsors. We're going to come back. We're going to find out why Nolan is so damn bullish. We'll see in a sec. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile, Aqua wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full control of your Bitcoin with secure cell custody.

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billions of dollars in Bitcoin. The Honey Badger Plan offers 204 assisted multi-sig, guiding you step-by-step on mobile or desktop. It works seamlessly with hardware wallets like TapSigner, Cold Card, Jade, and plenty of others, so you're always in control. Plus, with non-KYC inheritance planning, you can ensure your Bitcoin goes to your loved ones. No private info needed. Take control of your Bitcoin today. Click the link in the show notes or scan the QR code on the screen to check out the Honey Badger plan. All right, we are back in and Nolan, I am looking straight at you and we're going to find out why Nolan is so damn bullish. So same question to you, Nolan. Why are you bullish? 50 year mortgages, $2,000 stimmy checks. We got dead ostriches in Canada. We got the

the fiat apocalypse is upon us, everybody. Tom Donnie is the mayor of New York City. It just couldn't be better. And what I'm seeing, you know, because I do daily political news, I look at it through a Bitcoin lens. So I see it as it churns out. And when I saw Mom Dani coming, I said this is going to complete that cycle of the Unipartian politics, the fake liberal versus conservative, the fake Democrat versus Republican frame, the fake prison of two ideas, two bad ideas that get people stuck in these fake binaries that don't show the exit ramp. And what we're seeing from all of this, what we're seeing from the recalibration of politics and what's going on with

Mamdani is the focus now is, you know, and we're dealing with mega titan-like persuasion. You know, God forbid Memdani is coming up with this stuff on his own. If it is him, we've got a real problem because affordability is hitting everyone right where it matters. But the limit of the, let's call it, socialist or communist mind becomes apparent because it's all words, right? We even saw from Obama's new library opening. He's got a literal wall of words.

That's why you get the meme, the left can't mean. It's a linguistic plane. It will all be naggy and it will all be about, now they're going to try and try. Just like the Chinese are crying about the Americans getting the Bitcoin. You're going to have Mamdani in New York, the capital of capital in the world. crying about how hard it is to tax Bitcoin transactions. He has a Bitcoin taxation scheme. He's going to raise money from taxing Bitcoin transaction, he believes.

So watching the ineffective naggy behavior contrasted. And now Trump has to put up or shut up. We saw what happened today on Twitter with the H-1B thing. It looks like Trump's focus on the economy. It has to be absolute. It has to be laser-focused. Trump has to model success. to model success. He's got to embrace the Bitcoin part of this coalition. It's probably the only

palatable part of the coalition that he's built. The tech pros, the crypto thing, that's not going to work. Most of the MAGA people hate them. But there's a blue collar aspect of Bitcoin. And it goes beyond the highly engineered 50 year mortgage stuff. It goes beyond all of those things. And so more than ever, Bitcoin and the P-to-P network, not the big lobbyists, but what it brings to the enthusiasm of young people, it really is the only potential countermeasure they have to what Mamdani is conjuring up. Without someone like Charlie Kirk around, Trump really does have this blind spot. And it really only is Bitcoin that can fill that void. So Bitcoin has become more important to that Bitcoin MAGA coalition. And if they don't embrace it, that is also fine,

too. We saw this week and just, you know, as things happen in Bitcoin, weirdly, by coincidence all the time, we saw the deployment of the merchant tool with Cash App, which really does show this really positive aspect in particular of American small business, right? Cash App has always been a darling of American small business, of the small entrepreneurs out there with a little tile on their phone, and now they can all take Bitcoin. And they're going to be running all these bounty tests or quests and things like that, things we've never seen before. And that whole aspect of economic enthusiasm, economic optimism was always our best weapon. It's one of the things that is most appealing about Bitcoin. It's one of the things that wins people over that Bitcoiners

continuously have this optimistic vision of the future. It is the antidote for the malaise that's setting in in America, both with the MAGA people, disillusioned with Trump, feeling like he's not hearing them and what you see from the Mamdani and the nihilism of the communists. So weirdly, is more center stage than ever. The importance of Bitcoin just went up again in the Trump administration up to them to embrace it, but it is a proof of work situation as well. Again, it is the modeling of Bitcoiners being successful in this world. Folks like you putting muscle on, lifting weights, not being nihilistic is pretty much the only answer there is in America to all of this trouble. So how can you not be bullish? I see everyone all upset in the MAGA world.

I see everyone all upset in New York about communism. But in the end, it heightens the importance of Bitcoin to the conversation. It drags Bitcoin more and more into the main player energy for what's going on in the United States and that can reverberate around the world. Yeah. Yeah. There's, man, you were just rattling off so many things that my brain went, oh, yeah, that's sideways. You forget how much is happening at once.

Like, again, the New York thing, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, city-run grocery store idea like the you know taxing uh certain subsets of people depending on their skin color like that kind of like wild uh you know approach to to governance and then again on the you know at the existing administrative 50 year mortgages like think think of that think of the implications of that more bitcoin to buy i don't mind i think it's it's the it's the slow way to taper the Ponzi, right? And so we can do this gently or we can do this hard. That's always been the case of Bitcoiners. When COVID came around, I think we all said, okay, well, it might not be as gentle this whole Bitcoin thing as we thought. Unfortunately, not everyone can make it. I think there

are going to be CBDCs for some people. Like there's only so much warning we can do before it just becomes reality. But I don't think these rules apply to people who are looking at the future optimistically and they're building for that optimistic future. So there's a divergence. And it's becoming more and more obvious to people. And some are going to choose the future that they get. But we're building this other thing on the side. And it doesn't need permission from any of these institutions. Exactly as we said we were going to do years ago.

We're on schedule. We've completely altered American politics. And we're more important than ever. And the ostriches and all that kind of stuff. I mean, there's all these wild stories. The eggs and antibodies. It just shows the lack of trust and the system. that one little thing like ostriches getting called can turn into an international incident

and can really, I mean, it has the potential to take the country down. It's that embarrassing. And you see, you know, we all talk about reasons to buy Bitcoin every day and that's great. I mean, I love doing that. But on my daily show, I also give the reasons why people are selling dollars every day. And that's the other side of the trade, right? And the other side of the trade is, this is fuck, man. I'm not going in the ostrich killing guy.

team, like, that's not my team, you know? So this has the potential, again, it's just one of those things, but these are physical proof of work actions. These aren't words. This isn't, I have a definition of a word. I define genocide. Now you have to agree with me. So now you agree that this thing is genocide, because we've all agreed on the word. It's always these word games that are being played. And the importance of the word games are becoming a lot less important to attract these people, because everyone is kind of a free radical right now. Everyone is kind of loose, especially young people, and Bitcoin is probably the most attractive thing that you can dangle

to align people and get folks to fight against whatever this crazy future that's being offered up by these mental cases. And maybe some of it will work. I don't know. Maybe you can have a grocery store with five or six things the government gives to people. In the end, that's where I think this is headed. I think that the U.S. dollar and all fiat currencies, I mean, most of the other fiat policies are going to get.

get shut down the argentine one is over i won't be taken for much longer the canadian one that's what i've been telling canadians to give them some cognitive dissonance when i went down to argentina i said i want to go see what the maga bitpointers picked up i want to go see what they bought and see what we can apply to here you didn't get to the 51st state quick enough they already got it but there's room we got other spots here don't worry and canadians would be like what are you talking about they don't even know what's going the the one thing i just wanted to pull on here in regards to Canada. Man, this, I'm certain

you've covered this and maybe you've kind of alluded to it here, but this Bill S-206, which is basically UBI in Canada. And it is the Senate, what is this?

It's, what stage is it in? Anyways, basically there's a quote, whereas every person should have access to a livable, basic income. The minister must develop a national framework for the implementation of a guaranteed livable basic income program throughout Canada. This is, and for any person over the age of 17, they need to determine what constitutes a livable basic income for each region in Canada to ensure that participation in education training or the labor market is not required.

It does not result in a decrease in services or benefits meant to meet individual. exceptional needs related to health or disability. So, I mean, it's, it passed the first reading. It passed the second reading. It's now in committee, I guess. It still has to get. It'll bounce, right. You use the Senate to run long-term committees and studies.

So it'll probably stick around there for a year or two. That's the old white devil. That's what they always do with reparations. The old white devil move, just go put it in committee, and they'll study it for two or three years, and then everyone comes back, and they'll say there's no reparations, nothing happens. Yeah.

It's the same kind of thing. You go study it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think we get there? Do you think we get to... Oh, yeah. Yeah.

No, I've been a big believer in UBI for a long time. I think that we're not going to go directly from whatever the hell the Fiat world was, extreme fiat craziness straight to a Bitcoin standard. Just like we didn't go straight from a gold standard into the paper money mental illness system that we have. There was bimetalism between them, and bimetalism is one money for consuming, one money for saving. And that's what Argentina's had. That's why there's so many Argentines that were so ahead on Bitcoin.

When you ask an Argentine, how much is that cup of coffee? They know it in pesos. Coca-Cola, anything you're consuming, they understand the money in pesos. But if you're saving money, if it's how much money you earn, how much money your house costs, they had to use dollars. What's going to happen is the dollar is going to become consuming. more money. Fiat will get exactly what they asked for. It's going to be food stamps. The whole thing will be food stamps. And it'll be good for consuming stuff. It'll be good for policy. And because there are so many remnant sludge people from the Fiat system, what do we do with them? I mean, I'm not,

I'm not heartless. I have empathy for these people. They're victims of intense military-grade brainwashing, the likes of which the world has never seen. And some of them are salvageable. And so we've got to do our best. I don't want to live in a world that jumps right to a Bitcoin standard. And we've got to deal with all of them. I mean, think of the maid. Think of what we would have to go through to get to that point. It would be just depressing.

So I am the biggest proponent of UBI in Bitcoin. I'm the self-built Bitcoin, UBI proponent. Not for us, you know, but people will meet it. And I think it's the only way to get to the other side and get to an actual Bitcoin standard. That's, you know, right now, that's what we believe at Roxham, but the big markets that matter are going to move over to Bitcoin denomination, of course, oil, everything else, right?

We launched the Bitcoin Treasury products on the exchange other day, so you can buy the Bitcoin Treasury stocks measured in Bitcoin, so at least you know if their goal is to buy Bitcoin and acquire Bitcoin, well, pretty stupid to measure them by dollars. You can get the S&P 500. Yeah, you'd be surprised. Well, yeah, you're right. But anyway, we think it's a pretty good product,

and we're going to keep expanding that. Eventually, the goal, of course, is that we will be the venue to trade energy for Bitcoin, the only real part of the economy, the oil that really matters ultimately when the Bitcoin standard is implemented and realized on Earth, you know, we'll understand energy, will gauge energy prices in Bitcoin. Nothing else will make sense to us. You're not going to be able to measure oil in food stamps. It won't work. Snap benefits oil prices.

oil price is not an index it doesn't matter it'll be good for coca cola and it'll be good for all those folks so that's where it's headed and i embrace it i say let's get them their ubi for now let's find a way to pay for it and don't take my bitcoin yeah figure it out yes get those steamy checks out and we got energy the state does own energy it owns real estate there are things that it can make work for it and there's ways it can pay for these people i hope it's not through taxation debasement debasement I'm curious what

Nolan your thoughts are on all the stable coin talk within the states and all that regulation and how that plays into all this it's exactly that it's until I mean the very simple way

that I see it is like this after World War II again go back to this World War II because this was shocking Canadians right now is that it looked like all the borders and each individual Fiat Ponzi was going to be protected

what Trump is doing that the world is very surprised by is he's basically telling every other fiat Ponzi you're done you're rolling it up and you're putting it into our thing because negotiating with the central banks and then they're fuckers and then they do this and they don't do it and then America like Nixon genuinely from what I know I'm a bit of a Nixon historian nut he definitely did he meant that it was a temporary thing with the gold convertibility this was not what he wanted to do the Europeans were kind of screwing them they were pulling the gold out and causing price spikes and it was affecting his own hand as president.

So you understood why he did it. So the capriciousness of the other central bankers has probably bothered the Federal Reserve for quite a while. And that was my story. I covered the inauguration from Pubke with Bitcoin magazine. And I said the number one story of the year to look for is the subordination of the Federal Reserve to Scott Bessent and the Treasury Secretary,

that the policy of Treasury Secretary would eclipse the Federal Reserve to the point where the interest rate would be set, buy the actual treasury, which is why the bid bond will become important. It's what they're going to use eventually to stimulate interest in their own issued product that goes beyond central bankers buying it and goes beyond their own central bank buying it. That's how they're going to get control. But going back to how they see the stable coins, what they're able to do because they can't charge or they can't give interest on Americans depositing, but they can on foreigners, as long as the stable coin issuer is the new buyer of the treasury. So that's what's going to report.

place the central banks. I mean, Paolo's in. It looks like he was just in D.C. again, or he's in Miami. He's in America every other day. It looks like everything is ready to go. It looks like all the stable coins they're going to be starting and ready to go. They're going to be buying tea bills like crazy. Even when I was

in Argentina, it's all stable coin. You can't do anything already without stable coin. If you're there and you want to go around, you can't take your Canadian bank card and go and get pesos. We can't use our moose shekels. None of that way. You need stable coin and then you can get you can get the pesos.

So they're already distributing the USDT down there. Eventually, they are going to be able to offer interest to Canadians. And they're going to be able to wipe out the Canadian market. If you get US dollars and you can get like 10% interest, which is what I've already seen, Coinbase hinting is the number they can give people on deposits in Canada. As like a typical Amazon market share,

aggressive market share destruction tactic to go wipe out the monopolistic Canadian banks. It's a sitting duck. It always has been. So I think you're going to see a corporate level attack by major international stable coin firms into the Canadian market within a year and they're going to start offering really it'll just look like wow, we're getting products. And then suddenly people are going to be saving in that and you're going to see a run on the moose shekel dollar. It makes total sense. Like honestly I when when I I do my invoices, what do you think I'm using as, as, as my unit of account? Not Canadian dollars.

Who knows anything about it? I don't, I live here to sometimes. I have no understanding. When it goes beyond the coffee and all that, I don't know what you're talking about anymore. When you get to bigger numbers, I stop, like when someone says that was whatever Canadian 10,000, I have to do like, oh, that, well, you know, okay, that makes sense, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. But it's not. When, you know, it, it, it makes you. temporarily feel good when you invoice in USD and you see the number of Canadian dollars, but like, really it should make you feel bad. It's just,

it is what it is, but it's done. This thing is getting, this Ponzi is getting rolled up pretty much. I think it's, if I was to choose, if I was in the war room deciding which Ponzi to roll up first, I'd go here.

I mean, like, you know, not not because it's what I want. I'm just saying strategically, It's the most, it's the biggest game for the least amount of work. This central bank balance sheet is wrought into the core. It's disgusting.

There's nothing on it to defend. You can run right through this thing. A couple of degenerates bitcoins that are used to shorting shit coins could rip this thing apart at this point, right? It's not going to be that hard. Unfortunately, bitcoins have become super financially literate and know about all this stuff. And when you look at what's on offer with the Fiat Ponzi is getting wiped out, It'll happen across the continent.

I can't see any other country's fiat existing outside of this revolution. It's like the US dollars, the dirtiest or clean a shirt and the dirtiest in the dirty laundry hamper, right? And yeah, I mean, me and Ben here are in Canada, obviously different parts. But every time I go to a family event or something like that, they're always complaining about something going up, prices going up. I always really push Bitcoin as much as I can. I don't want to be too heavy on it because the more you push, the more they push away from you sometimes. You got to read my, you got to read my Bitcoiners guide to NPC management.

Okay. Not arguments. It's all magic tricks. Yes. All different cognitive dissonance inducing. Perfect. Don't think of them as arguments. Yes.

All right. I will look into that because. They're mind tricks. Yeah. I'm really trying to get everyone on the Noah's Ark per se before before the flood. comes and it's it's it's getting tougher and you know everyone's excuses like I have no money to even save right and they're they're in these pickles that it's very hard to get out of and these are people like my family members and aunts and uncles that you know I looked up to as a kid and now it's

really hard to see them in that position where where where I've been saving Bitcoin the past few few years right and it's like you know I keep catching up and they keep becoming farther and farther behind and it's hard to see those people around you struggle. And I really hope that they can, I will look into what you try it. Yeah, I will use Bitcoin to identify NPC type, right? There is Bitcoin first contact story will generally tell you where and how you can cause cognitive dissonance and then you go and spring a trap and you use some Bitcoin memes when they're a bit confused.

And if you keep whacking them with them, yeah, hit. Yeah, you need a few touches. You need a few touches. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of trial and error with it. But these, I have a lot of feedback from folks. I have a lot of people tell me it worked. They used it at, I wrote it for Thanksgiving 2020, U.S. Thanksgiving 2020.

And since then, I've had lots of good feedback and lots of folks saying it worked. Amazing. There you go. Yeah, I'll check it out because I'm not going down with the ship in my country. I'm not to well so I have a new book coming out maybe I'll come and plug it here some time called the rinkside seats to the Canadian Apocalypse and so there you go some pretty funny anecdotes about the rise and fall of Canada in there so amazing we actually have a myself and Nathan doing the Thursday show we've a we've installed a regular segment because there's so much material on it but it's the Canada sucks section Perfect. There's so much fodder to work with.

It's wild. But yeah, I mean, there's no shortage of reasons to point to Bitcoin these days. But you're right, Nolan. Like people, you have to present it. And D, you have to present in a certain way. And that way is going to depend on the person you're talking to. And some people just won't want to hear it. And so I think.

think what we end up having is, you know, as you alluded to, it's going to be a subset of people that, albeit rockily, navigate what's coming, okay. And there's going to be a subset of people that navigated poorly and become all but completely dependent on the state to help them scrape by with, you know, with government programs. And today news, it's the bell curve all over again, right? It is really the bell curve all over again, just like with the vaccines. You know, there are some people that didn't need to have all the poetry of Bitcoin. Just stay some humble stacked ads, right?

Bitcoin, good. And so on the IQ, you know, the IQ bell curve, that meme, that's the problem with Canada. It just has so many in the middle. And it's always going to be from these two directions. I just don't see any, having worked in media for a long time, how many do times have I heard? When the middle come, when the mainstream comes, this is what's happening.

It's always going to be, we'll get more of the share of these people, but there is an aspect of it that is just like that. Right. Are you, sorry, are you under the, you want the slow and steady transition rather than almost the rip the band-aid off approach? What's your kind of answer? No, I mean, I think we can. can go pretty fast. I think people are pretty adaptable. And as long as, you know, that's why I like

things like the 50 year mortgage. And look, I think there is a way to taper this Ponzi. I think that if we had the best and bright, I mean, fundamentally what Bitcoin, what, what, what I first noticed separated Bitcoin from like crypto, for example, right, was that crypto made this argument that actually you needed a higher IQ to participate in markets. You actually have to learn how to do minor extracted. value. You've got to front run them on the nodes. You've got to know how to run a rig. You've got to do this. And it was like, not only is a Series 7 Wall Street license on enough, you've got to get a computer science degree. And then all will be right with the world. We just need smarter people. And Bitcoin fundamentally, you know, the ethos are the result of Bitcoin and what it proposes

suggests that the best and brightest won't go into Wall Street anymore, that this whole thing where the best and brightest for this generation, you know, they'll go into whatever job pays the most they're indifferent whatever job pays the best of that generation the best and brightest are going straight forward we made financial engineering the best job fiat made financial engineering the best job and we did that for way too long and so fundamentally we'll have a net benefit as north americans by having cattle ranching and all these bitcoin aligned type blue collar jobs become actually, you know, high income hiring. We're already seeing it.

The plumbers are doing great. All the tradesmen are doing great. All these people who did great. These are all great bitcoins in general. And so we can actually get things built. And I think we can really embrace the type of golden age that can pay for all the sludge people in a way that would make everyone happy, I think. And give them all they want, their hormones and whatever else they need.

And not bother. Just forget it. You know, say it and forget it. Nolan, would you say you're bullish on sludge people? I am. Sludge people are having the stable coins, the CVDC, the algorithmic enhancements. They're going to be dopamine out. They're going to be flooded with the dopamine.

If they thought they had enough dopamine in the consumer culture, wait until they get a load of the CBDC culture. It's going to be bugs galore to eat. There's going to be so much in this. We have so much canola oil to get rid of. I don't know. Literally swimming in it. It's great.

Deep fried everything. Let's go. Yeah, the canola oil ocean would be as deep as. How much tofu do we have to unload? I mean, it's going to be crazy, you know? Well, you heard it here first. Nolan Bowerly, bullish on sludge people. So, I mean, we have that to look for.

I think this is the perfect time to begin rounding out. I had an absolute blast. Of course, everybody watching. Thank you guys for being here. Make sure you check both these gentlemen out as well as Matt Hill, who was here before. We got links down below to check them out. But I will go to each of you really quick. And if you want to point people towards something,

if you want to highlight something for people to go check out, please do. So Nolan, I'll go to you first. Where can people find you? What can they check out? You can see me from 9 to 11 a.m. Eastern Time every day at Roxham.com for the Great Away. We do NPC News first today. Oh, there was a new word. I just want to share it with you before I go. It was great. You're going to love it was a Canadian headline. I got to tell you what it was. It was a Oh, no, I got to see.

Never mind. It was something like, no, I have to. Too good. It was too good. It was too good. I got to see it. It was in my notes today. I can find it.

It was something about monetary anxiety. One second. Oh, God. Yeah, this is. Oh, my God. It was too good. It was too good. anxiety oh my god it was so so good let me find it it was just too much and it was in

canadian news experts say we got some good stuff oh it was good yeah it was a cbc article i think of course it was yeah oh i gotta read nothing that where else would it have come from yeah no no i think i erased it i'm not going to able to find it sorry for the low entertainment Put in the comments. I'll find it. I'll find it. It's just too funny. I can't believe I can't find it.

That's all good. That's all good. I mean, you know, while you're taking a quick peek, I will bring up Roxham. Dot TV. There's the Great Awakening here. So again, you can check out Nolan there. Every weekday, you said, every, what days of the week? Monday to Friday.

Monday to Friday, 9 to 11. 11 Eastern Time. Yes, sir. Perfect, perfect. Yeah, so make sure you check them out, roxham.tv, rocksam.com, and yeah, go watch the Great Awakening if you were getting a good kick of the combo here.

Dee, I will also ask you as well. Where can people find you? What can they check out? Yeah, for sure. My name is Dee again. I go by Hoddle Dee, if you can see it right there. That's me on Twitter. And I work for Coin Kite

in head of customer support. So anything related to hardware wallets. We're a Bitcoin-only company. We sell things like the block clock, tap signer, SaaS cards, Mark 4, Cold Car Q, and all things, Bitcoin. So yeah, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. And I just want to thank you again for having me on. I think that was a great discussion.

And unfortunately, Matt had to leave a little early. But, yeah, it was great talking with all you guys. And thanks for having me. Yeah, no worries, no worries. And I'll give Matt one last chill because he's not currently in the room. But Start 9, love these guys. They kill it. They make the server and the server pure.

And yeah, awesome way to be running your Bitcoin node. And it sounds like that update's going to be killer. And I think Nolan is celebrating. I found it because I closed it, but I realized I had transferred it. So this is an actual headline. Ready? This is an actual headline from CP-24. Don't let money scarcity mindset get the best of you, experts say.

I don't want you to tell you that it's all in your head. It's all in your head. Money scarcity. Are these people like reading, what's that book where it's like the you just like think about it and it happens? It's a real headline. It's not like a scary mindset. It's all in your head.

It's all in your head if you just. Lower your expectations, you're going to be fine. Okay, but don't let it bug you. If you let it bug you, you're going to have more problems. So they're trying to tell you you can't let it bug you. It's fine. Just get another credit card. It's fine.

It reminds me of that book, The Secret, then that like everybody got all, it was like on Oprah. But it was like, it was basically like, guys, the secret is just don't think bad things. and like this is the problem you guys are thinking about bad things and then bad things happen to you just think about good things

and you'll manifest it that's that's the secret this is this cbc to give a taste i've got this one from the detroit news where they tell you yes you do need to clean your water bottle here's why and how and they got into the details about the soap and the sponge you ought to use it's like all the stories they run them every summer too with the heat right what you should do when it's hot, right? Did you know you gotta go, you can go into the shade, okay? Water, right?

Experts say water helps during a heat wave and so does staying indoors and staying out of the sun. But if you can't, then a shady tree can do that. I run that story every day. Experts. You heard of electrolytes. Have you tried, again, it's like the Paris Hilton, like have you tried not being poor?

Yeah. Start this sign, stop being poor. Yeah, it's, come on, CBC. Let's go. Anyways, gentlemen, thank you so, so much. This is a blast. Had a lot of fun. Shout out to Matt Hill as well.

Everybody, check out where these gents are at. Follow them where they're at. Links are down below. And I'll finish by saying, it's always fun talking about the news, talking about the latest events, talking about various things. but if you do not act and you do not take your self-sovereignty into your hands, it is all for not. It is very important that you both understand why Bitcoin is important,

but also how to use Bitcoin. So I always play a clip at the end of the show that encourages you to head over to a learn page that I put together with step-by-step tutorials on various tools that can help you make sure that you have your Bitcoin in self-custasy and you're securing it properly. So don't ignore that. stick around. There's a QR code. There's a link that you can go to. Very, very simple. And you can get started on your way if you have known already. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Have a great evening. Thanks, man. Cheers, guys. Hey, you. Yes, you watching the Bitcoin price movements and the

latest exciting news. It's awesome to stay informed, but the real power of Bitcoin comes from taking control. Don't just watch. Take action. Head over to btccessions.com. for free step-by-step tutorials that guide you through every major skill you need to know, plus full video playlist for deeper dives on any topic you like. And if you're ready for the ultimate fast track, scroll to the bottom and check out Bitcoin Mentor.io for premium one-on-one experience with my team of Bitcoin experts to ensure you get it right the first time. Don't wait. Secure your Bitcoin future today.

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