BTC Sessions - Orange Pill ANYONE—Klan Whisperer’s PROVEN Strategy | Daryl Davis

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Mentor Sessions Ep.008: Daryl Davis on Befriending the Klan & Lessons for BitcoinersUnveil the extraordinary story of Daryl Davis, a black musician who befriended Ku Klux Klan members, helping over 200 abandon their hateful ideology through empathy and conversation. Daryl shares how his journey—from facing racism at age 10 to engaging Klan leaders—offers powerful lessons for Bitcoiners struggling to Orange Pill. Discover how his approach of addressing ignorance with education and exposure can help Bitcoiners connect with skeptics, overcome resistance, and drive Bitcoin adoption. From his childhood travels to disarming fear with human connection, Daryl’s insights reveal universal strategies to bridge divides in the Bitcoin community and beyond. Ready to rethink how you share Bitcoin’s potential? Dive in now!Chapters: • 00:00:00 - Episode IntroductionPreview of Daryl Davis’s story and its relevance to Bitcoin education. • 00:01:03 - Daryl’s Early Life and Global ExposureGrowing up as an embassy kid, immersed in diverse cultures. • 00:04:50 - Facing Racism at Age 10A parade incident sparks Daryl’s lifelong question about hate. • 00:13:08 - Music Opens Doors: Meeting a KlansmanA country gig leads to an unexpected encounter with a Klan member. • 00:25:51 - Interviewing the Grand DragonDaryl meets Klan leader Roger Kelly, facing tension and humanity. • 00:40:42 - Empathy in Action: Lessons for BitcoinersHow education and exposure can win over Bitcoin skeptics. • 01:02:15 - Perception vs. RealityOffering better perceptions to shift mindsets without confrontation. • 01:10:20 - Success Stories: Over 200 Klan Members ReformedDaryl’s impact and advice for fostering understanding.About Daryl Davis: • Website: daryldavis.com • Instagram: @realdaryldavis • X (Twitter): @realdaryldavis • LinkedIn: Daryl DavisSchedule a Free Discovery Session with Nathan to learn more about how Bitcoin Mentor can Fast-Track your Bitcoin Education and Level Up your Self-Custody Security: https://bitcoinmentor.io/?fluent-booking=calendar&host=nathan-1712797202&event=30minStruggling to explain Bitcoin to friends and family without losing them to complexity or misinformation? Blockhunters - The Bitcoin Board Game is your solution—a fast-paced, strategic game crafted by Bitcoin enthusiasts to make learning about Bitcoin fun and effortless. Through real-world stories like the García family battling hyperinflation or Omar escaping the CFA franc system, players build a blockchain, protect private keys, and compete for block rewards in just 30 minutes. Visit blockhuntersgame.com and use code BTCMENTOR for 10% off to spark Bitcoin curiosity today!FREE Bitcoin Book Giveaway:New to Bitcoin? Get Magic Internet Money by Jesse Berger FREE! Click here: bitcoinmentororange.com/magic-internet-moneyBOOK Private Sessions with Bitcoin Mentor:Learn self-custody, hardware, multisig, Lightning, privacy, and more from vetted educators. Visit bitcoinmentor.ioSubscribe to Mentor Sessions:Don’t miss out—subscribe and follow us: • BTC Sessions: x.com/BTCsessions• Nathan: x.com/theBTCmentor• Gary: x.com/GaryLeeNYCEnjoyed this episode? Like, subscribe, and share! Check out our previous interview with Dr. Bob Murphy on Austrian economics and Bitcoin for more insights. https://youtu.be/KgqkfKd0VeQ#Bitcoin #BitcoinEducation #DarylDavis #Empathy #BitcoinAdoption #LearnBitcoin #BitcoinMentor #MentorSessions #Education #Humanity #Crypto #Cryptocurrency #BitcoinPodcast #Podcast #OrangePill

He looks at me just as plain as day. And he says, I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan. I wanted him to fix me up with the Grand Dragon of Maryland. Ignorance breeds fear. That fear in turn will escalate into hatred. That in turn will escalate into destruction. There is a cure. And this can be applied to Bitcoinsers.

The new ones who are skeptical on the fence or not even near the fence yet. You think talking to people about Bitcoin Asard? Imagine being a black man at a clan rally. Meet Daryl Davis, musician and author of clandestine relationships and the Clan Whisperer, a man who befriended Ku Klux Klan members and helped over 200 radically change through conversation alone. Discover how his secrets to breaking down barriers can transform the way you connect with skeptics and spread Bitcoin adoption. Stick around. Your next talk could change everything. Going beyond Bitcoin to bring you the skills and insights to exit the Fiat Matrix, this is Mentor Sessions.

Darrell, thank you so much for joining us today. It is an honor to have you on, and I'm sure there are a lot of listeners we have who may not know your story. You have an incredible story of befriending people from the Ku Klux Klan to the point where some have left the clan and even given up their robes to you. So for those listening who might not be familiar, can you tell us a bit about your story? Sure, and thank you all very much for having me. It's really my honor and pleasure to be here and share the story. Well, I turned 67 years of age this month, in fact, tomorrow. Happy birthday. Thank you. But my bat story is really key to why I do what I do today. I grew up as a child of parents in the U.S. Foreign Service, so I grew up as an American Embassy kid.

And how it works is you get assigned to a foreign country for two years and you come back home here to the States at the end of the assignment. You're here for a few months, maybe even a year. and then you're back overseas or abroad for another two years. Back and forth, back and forth were the formative years of my life. I started traveling the world at the age of three in 1961. And my first introduction to school was abroad. I did kindergarten, first grade, third grade, fifth grade, seventh grade,

all in different schools in different countries. And here's the interesting thing. Because my first introduction to school was abroad, that became my baseline for what school was supposed to be. So my classmates when I was in school abroad, everywhere I went, were from all over the world. Anybody who had an embassy where we were stationed, all of their children went to the same school. So this little girl sitting next to me at this desk might be from Japan, that kid from Nigeria, that kid from Russia, France, Germany, Sweden. if you opened the door to my classroom and stuck your head in, you'd say, oh, you know, this looks like a United Nations of little kids, because that's exactly what it was. But each time I'd come back

home at the end of my dad's assignment, I would either be in all black schools or black and white schools, meaning the still segregated or the newly integrated. And there was not the amount of diversity in the classroom that I had overseas. So literally, when I was abroad, I was living about 10 years ahead of my time because that multicultural scenario had yet to come here, you know? And when it did come, some people were not happy, right? Now, today, of course, you know, you go to a school, people from all over the place. But even though desegregation was passed in 1954 by our U.S. Supreme Court, schools did not integrate overnight.

You know, I was born in 58, and they still weren't integrated. Even today in 2025 in some parts of this country, they're still struggling with integration. So, skipping ahead, 10 years after I was born at age 10, 1968, I had come back from overseas, and now I was in a school that was newly integrated. There were only two black kids in the whole school, me in fourth grade and a little black girl in second grade. So, you know, I really didn't see her except for like at recess and lunchtime. And, you know, I didn't play with second graders, you know, being in the fourth grade. Obviously.

Yeah, you know, hey, I'm a big bad fourth grader, man. So, you know, consequently, all of my friends were white because, you know, they were fourth and fifth graders. And several of my male friends were members of the Cub Scouts. And they invited me to join the Cub Scouts, 1968. So I joined the Cub Scouts. And we had a parade. And this is right outside of Boston. We marched from Lexington to Concord, Massachusetts, to commemorate the ride of Paul Revere,

right? And somewhere down, you know, people were waving and cheering. I'm the only black participant. Everybody marching were white in the parade. All the spectators are white. They're waving and cheering, smiling until we reached a certain point in this parade route, when suddenly, pow, I'm getting hit with bottles and solar. of pop cans and just debris from the street by just a small group of spectators standing on my right.

And, you know, I looked over to see, you know, who's throwing things. And I saw, you know, maybe four or five people. I remember there being a couple of kids who I didn't know, maybe a year or two older than me and a couple of adults who were throwing things mixed in with a larger crowd. And my first thought was, oh, these people over here, they don't like the scouts. That's how naive I was. because I had no precedent for that kind of behavior. And it wasn't until my scout leaders came running and covered me with their own bodies

and escorted me out of the danger that I realized no other scout was getting this special protection. So now I'm trying to figure out what had I done? I didn't do anything. Why are they doing this? And I kept asking them, and all they would do is kind of shush me and rush me along, tell me to keep moving, keep moving, everything will be fine. I kept moving, but they never answered the question. So, you know, unfortunately, the people didn't follow us as we continued the march.

By the end of the parade, I still had no answers. And when I went home, my mother and father, who had not attended the parade, they had something else going on that afternoon. I don't remember what it was, but anyway, I know they weren't there. When I got home, they were like cleaning me up and putting band-aids on me and asking me, how did you fall down and get all scraped up? i told them i didn't fall down i told them exactly what had happened and for the first time in my life my mother and father sat me down and explained to me what racism was now i know you guys are going to find this funny or strange or whatever but believe it or not at the age of ten i had never even heard the word racism

I had no clue what they were talking about because that word and that behavior was not in my sphere. And that's why it's so important to understand my background. You know, racism. Yeah, I was around people from all over the world. We worked together, went to school together, had played together, had slumber parties together. This racism thing that they were talking about, you know, was not in my world. I had no clue what they were talking about. And when they told me, you know, what this racism thing was, it was about the color of my skin.

I refused to believe them because my 10-year-old brain could not process the idea that someone who had never seen me, never spoken to me, knew nothing about me, would want to inflict pain upon me for no other reason than the color of my skin. And they assured me that was the case. I still didn't believe them. We argued, and I pointed out why I was right and they were wrong. I was right because the people who were doing this to me did not look any different than my fellow scouts or my friends at school or my friends overseas, whether they were my fellow Americans at the embassy or my little French or Danish or Swedish or Australian friends, right? So color had nothing to do with it. So I didn't believe them. Well, again, I point out this was 1968, which was a milestone, you know, in this.

country, on April 4th, shortly after all this incident, on April 4th, Martin Luther King was assassinated. And I remember it very clearly, every major city in this country burned to the ground with violence and a lot of this new thing I'd heard about called racism. So now I realize that this phenomenon did exist, but I didn't know why. And I formed a question in my mind called, well, the question was, how can you hate me when you don't even know me? And ever since then, so now for 57 years, as I was 10 years old back then, I've been looking for the answer to that question. That is unbelievable. It's just a hearing story. And it's very interesting, the things that like have to align in order for everything to kind of progress and continue down that path,

right? Had you not been traveling the world at that point, you probably would have been introduced much earlier. You could have had a different framework. And your parents maybe even had a different framework coming into it where they may have even purposely, even before getting exposed to any sort of abuses or hatred, would have wanted to warn you in advance, which could have also then planted, you know, that, what do you call it, like, preliminary seed for kind of hostility or defensiveness that then would have not allowed you to continue on from there. So from that point then, how in the world do we get to you hanging out with clan members? Okay. So, you know, like I said, that always fascinated me.

You know, it's sort of like, I won't say everybody, but who goes into the psychological field, whether it's psychoanalysis, psychology, psychotherapy, psychiatry, whatever, not everybody, but a lot of people who do go into that field have had some kind of something going on in their life, you know, as a kid. And they try to figure out how to, you know, self-analyze a way. whatever. And once they figure it out, then they want to try to help other people and they go into that field. So I didn't have any abuse going on with me, you know, internal, you know, with my family or anything like that. But I had that external, you know, stimulus to cause me to think, you know,

how can people behave? I need to find the answer. So that was my, you know, delve into the psychological world, right? All right. So I went to, I went to high school. of course and graduated, went to college and graduated. I got my degree in music. Music became my profession. But still, studying race relations on my own became my obsession. You know, there were no courses you could take like race 101. You know, that still doesn't even exist. So I had to do it all myself. And throughout my life, you know, I've purchased every book I could find on black supremacy, white supremacy, the Ku Klux Klan, anti-Semitism, the Nazis in Germany, the neo-Nazis over here. I have a wide, vast library of that stuff.

All my books talk about it, but they don't tell me why people can hate you because of the color of your skin. And when I would ask people, they would say, oh, Darrell, you know, some people are just like that. That's just how they are. Well, that's not a satisfactory answer. So I always had it in the back of my head, right? After I graduated, you know, I wanted to play music full time. Well, country music had made a resurgence. It had never gone away completely, but it had fallen off the top 40 charts.

But now a new movie had come out called Urban Cowboy with John Travolta and a lot of country music in that movie, right? So a lot of your bars and clubs and things switched their format from R&B and Top 40 and Disco to country. And, you know, I want to work full time, so I joined a country band. and I was the only black guy in the band. Country music and blues music is the exact same music, just three chords, each one, right? And it's society that puts us

and compartmentalizes us. Oh, because you're white and you're singing this song with three chords, you're country. Because you're black, you're singing the same song, you're blues, you know, that kind of thing. So in any event, I joined this country band because the music had come

back and this band was pretty well established here i'm in maryland here in the maryland area and they had played this place in a town called frederick maryland which sits about an hour and 20 minutes north of washington dc i know it well i used to go there a lot of times okay so you know it so uh anyway there was a bar there that then called the silver dollar lounge and um it had a reputation which i was well aware of long before i ever went there that it was unwel to black people. There were no signs, you know, like you used to see way back in the day, colored water fountain, you know, colored restroom, all that, nothing like that. But you just knew if you were black, you would not welcome there.

And, you know, when you go somewhere where you're not welcome and alcohol is being served, sometimes it's not a good combination. You know that too, huh? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so here, so the band had played there before. They had another gig there, and now I'm in the band. So I go, you know, fully aware. And, you know, people gave me some looks when I came in, but nobody bothered me at that point. And we did our first set, took a break, and I'm following the band to where they're going to sit.

And I feel somebody from behind reach over and put their arm across my shoulder. Now, I see the whole band in front of me. I don't know anybody in this joint. So I'm, you know, trying to turn around, you know, getting ready to get ready, right? Yeah. So, but there's a. It was a white gentleman, I'd say 15 years, 20 years older than me. Big smile on his face.

And he says, man, I sure love your all's music. I said, thank you. And I shook his hand. And he pointed at the stage and said, I've seen this here band before, but I ain't never seen you. Where'd you come from? And I explained, well, yes, they've played here before, but this is my first time.

I just joined the band a couple months ago. Man, I sure love your piano playing. and this is the first time I ever heard a black man play piano like Jerry Lee Lewis. Now, I was not offended by the statement, but I was surprised, given the fact that this guy was a decade and a half, maybe two decades older than me, that he did not know the black origin of Jerry Lee Lewis's piano style. So I proceeded to tell him, well, Jerry Lee got it from the same place I got it from. He was like, you know, from black blues and boogie-woogie piano players.

Oh, no, no, no, no. you know, Jerry Lee invented that style. I never heard no black man play like that. I'm thinking, dude, you know, what, you never heard little Richard or Fas Domeno, you know? And I said, look, man, I said, I know Jerry Lee Lewis. He's a very good friend of mine. He's told me himself, you know, who he would see play and emulate and all that kind of stuff. He didn't believe I knew Jerry Lee either. But he was fascinated with me and wanted me to go back to his table and let him buy me a drink. Now, I don't drink alcohol. I never did. But, you know, I went back to his table, let him buy me a cranberry juice. So he paid the waitress. He takes his glass and he clinks my glass and cheers me. He says, you know, this is the first time I ever sat down with a black man had a drink. And now I'm kind of like, you know, mystify. Yeah.

Okay. And this is why my background is so important. You know, I'm not stupid, but I am naive. All right. So I'm thinking to myself, how can this be? I mean, at that point in my life, I had sat down with thousands, literally, tens of thousands of white people or anybody else, and had a meal, a beverage, a conversation with them. How was it that this guy that much older than me in Frederick, Maryland, had never sat down with a black person, and I know for a fact that there are black people in Frederick. I have seen them. So how did he somehow miss them all these years, right?

And so I wasn't trying to be facetious. I was genuinely curious. I said, why? He didn't answer me. He looked down at the table. I asked him again. And his buddy said, tell him, tell him, tell him. I said, tell me.

And he looks at me just as plain as day. And he says, I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan. I burst out laughing at him. I just laughed because I knew this guy was joking. I knew he was joking because, like I told you, I have every book written on the Klan. I've read them all. And none of my books talk about how a Klansman will come up and embrace a black guy

and want to hang out and buy him a drink and have a conversation. It does not work that way. So this guy, I'm trying to justify why he would say that. Sure. And I'm thinking in my mind, okay, he thinks I'm jerking him around about knowing Jerry Lee Lewis and Jerry Lee learning anything from black people. So he's going to jerk me around about being. in the damn KKK. So, you know, I'm going along with his joke. He goes in his pocket, pulls out

his wallet, flips through it, and handed me his clan membership card. I recognize the clan, the clan emblem, which is a red circle with a white cross and a red blood drop in the center. I stopped laughing. This thing was for real, right? It wasn't funny anymore. And I gave it back to him. But he was very nice, very friendly. And, you know, we had a good conversation, talked about all kinds of things, including the clan. But he gave me his phone number and wanted me to call him any time I was to return to the Silver Dollar Lounge because he wanted to bring his friends, right? Klansmen and clans women to see, as he put it to me, the black guy who plays like Jerry Lee Lewis. I'm not sure he called me the black guy to his friends, right? But that's

how he explained it to me. So I said, okay. And, you know, I would call him every six weeks. You know, we're on a rotation with other bands. So six weeks rolls around, here we come back. I call him in the middle of the week and say, hey man, you know, we're going to be down to the silver dollar this weekend. Come on out. He would come. He'd bring his friends, Klansmen and Klan's

women. They came in street clothes right, not, you know, robes and hoods. And they would gather near the stage and watch me play with the band. They'd get out on the dance floor, dance to our to our music. And then on the break, I'd make my way over to his table, thank him for coming, meet some

of his friends, and most of them would stay there and meet me. There were a couple of them that would get up. Every time they saw me coming, they'd get up and walk to the other side of the room. So the message was, you know, we just want to look at you. We don't want to shake your hand or talk to you, anything like that. Which, you know, it's fine by me. I don't care. So I would talk to the ones who were there, and that went on until the end of that year, at which time I quit that band, and I went back to playing rock and roll and blues and rockabilly or whatever. else was going on. And then it dawned on me a couple years later, well, actually several years later, Daryl, you blew it. The answer to your question, how can you hate me when you don't even

know me that's been plaguing you since the age of 10, it fell right into your lap and you didn't even realize it? Who better to ask that question of than someone who would go so far as to join an organization that has over a hundred year history of practicing hating people. I mean, you have organizations that practice playing basketball or soccer or volleyball or stamp collecting or judo or karate or, you know, whatever. But who ever heard of an organization that practices hating people? Get back in contact with that Klansman. Because if anybody would know the answer, it would be him or people of, you know, his clan members, right? Get him to, uh, to introduce you to the clan leader from Maryland. If you're enjoying this conversation with Daryl Davis so far,

please hit that like button, share this video. It really does help. And now quick message from this episode's sponsor. Bitcoin gives you back your time. So why not spend it having a blast orange pilling your family and friends with the ultimate Bitcoin board game? Blockhunters is a fast-paced adventure that mirrors how Bitcoin actually works. Anyone from Bitcoin beginner to season hodler can play as one of ten characters, each highlighting a real-world use case. You'll fill the mempool of transactions, mine like a pro, and fight to fill the block to claim your Bitcoin reward, all while keeping your identity hidden. After all, privacy is important. Blockhunters is a stem.org, authenticated game, fostering critical thinking, problem-solving

skills, and exploring real-world applications. Turn off the screens and have a 30-minute exciting experience the whole family will enjoy. Remember, Blockhunters isn't just a game. It's your secret weapon to fight misinformation, spark understanding, and lead the charge toward a bright orange future. One play and your friends will be begging to set up a wallet. So what are you waiting for? Grab your copy of BlockHudders today and become the unstoppable Bitcoin evangelist. No preaching required. Head to Blockhuntersgame.com by simply scanning the QR code or click the links below. Use promo code BTC mentor for 10% off. So now, you know, it dawned on me that, you know, hey, I blew my opportunity to find out my answer. Let me get back in contact.

with that guy. So long story short, I got back in contact with him. I wanted him to fix me up with the Grand Dragon of Maryland, which was the group that he belonged to. He didn't want to do it. He was fearful. By the time I'd gotten back in contact with him after a couple of years it passed, right? He was out of the clan. But he did not want to introduce me to the guy. And he was, he was fearful for my safety and for his own. And I said, but you're out of the clan. And he goes, it doesn't matter, Darry. I just can't do it. So I convinced him to give me the man. I knew the man's name. His name was Roger Kelly. And of course, he knew Roger very well. And I convinced him to give me Mr. Kelly's address and phone number. And I said, I will meet up with him myself. Well, he didn't want to do that either. But he gave it to me on the condition that I not tell Mr. Kelly where I got his personal information. And he warned me, he said, Darrell, do not fool with Roger Kelly. He will kill you. I said, well, that's the whole reason I need to see him. Why will you kill me?

Just because I'm black? I mean, I don't understand this. This is why I need to sit down and talk with this man. And my mission was, all the books on the clan have been written by white authors. And there have only been two books written on the clan, not on the clan, but two books written by black authors that dealt with the clan. One author detailed how he escaped a lynching in the 1930s, yeah. And the other one detailed how he escaped a lynching in the 1930s. 1940s, but not from the perspective of sitting down face-to-face interviewing their would-be

lynchers in person. And that's what I wanted to do. So I would become the first black author to write a book on the KKK from in-person interviews. So I had my secretary who, that particular secretary has passed away now. But she was a white lady. And I only mentioned the color of her skin, because it doesn't matter to me, but it's important to the story. I gave her Mr. Kelly's number, and I told her, you call him and tell him that you're, you know, that you're working for somebody who's writing a book on the Klan. Would he consent to sitting down and being interviewed? And I told her, do not tell him that I'm black. If he asks, don't lie to him, but don't allude to it to give him reason to ask. Now, the reason why I had the number, I could have called him myself, but I figured, you know, if I called the guy, he might recognize in my voice that I'm black. I'm not talking to you, click, and the whole project would have ended before it ever got started. But I knew if Mary called him, he would know that the voice on the other end of that line belongs to a white lady. And I knew enough about the mentality to know that he would not automatically assume.

that A, this white lady is working for a black man, and B, let alone a black man who's writing a book on the plan, because they don't exist, you know? Yeah. So that might up the chances of him agreeing. And then if he agrees, then obviously when we meet, he can see that I'm black. He can figure that one out, right?

So, you know, I'm not going to disguise myself. And I figured, you know, I want him to see me in person. And then he can decide if he wants to talk to me or turn around and walk away. or attack me or whatever he's going to do. So she understood. She calls the guy and he agrees to do the interview. Didn't ask what color I was. So we set the interview up for to meet at a motel right above the Silver Dollar Lounge in Frederick.

The lounge was in the basement. And we got a room there. Mary on a Sunday afternoon, about 5.15, Mary and I got there several hours early. I gave her some money, sent her down the hall to get soda pop out of the machine, put it in the ice bucket, get it cold, and all that stuff. I had no idea what this man was going to do when he walked into that room and saw me. But I knew what I was going to do. I was going to be hospitable, right?

I'm going to offer the man a cold beverage, like I would offer either of you if you came to visit me. So she got all that prepared. Now, there was a lap table, a little tiny, you know, you know how motels are. our little tiny lamp table. Sure. I took the lamp off, put the table over in a corner of the room. By the way, the way the room was situated,

you know, not by my choice, just the way it was, if you people are standing in the hallway of this motel looking into the door of the room, you cannot see who's in the room. You've got to come in the room, turn to your right, and go around the corner, and then you'll see the room. So I put the table in the most obscure corner of the room.

So Mr. Kelly would have to come halfway in before he realized it's a black hole. guy in the room. And I put a chair on one side from Mr. Kelly, a chair on the other side for me. And I had like a little black duffel bag sitting beside my chair. In it, I had a cassette recorder, which I sat on the table. I had some blank cassettes. And I had a copy of the Bible in the bag. Why did I have the Bible? Because the Ku Klux Klan claims to be a Christian organization. And they claim that the Bible preaches racial separation. So I want to be able to, you know, to reach down, pull out my Bible, say, here, Mr. Kelly, please, you know, show me chapter and verse

where it says blacks and whites must be separate. So I'm all prepared, right? Right on time, right to the minute, on time. Knock, knock, knock. I'm seated back there where you can't see me from the hall. Mary hops up, runs around the corner, opens the door. In walks what is known as the Grand Nighthawk, a grand, okay, grand means state, right? Nighting. Nighting. Nighthawk means bodyguard. So a Grand Nighthawk is a bodyguard to the Grand Dragon. So N. Wants this Grand Nighthawk. He's wearing military camouflage with that red circle white cross patch right over here. The letters KKK right here. On his cap it said Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. And on his hip, he had a semi-automatic handgun in a holster. He comes in, comes around the corner, and sees me and just, you know, freezes. Right in.

place. Well, this feels like a Chappelle sketch. Continue. So Mr. Kelly is on the other side of the corner and doesn't realize that his Nighthawk has stopped short. He comes around the corner and slams into the guy's back, knocks the guy forward. And now they both are stumbling around tripping, trying to regain their balance. And they're like, you know, looking all around the room, like, you know, is this an ambush or did we misunderstand the room number? You know, and I'm saying they're like, you know, looking at them. And I can see the apprehension in their faces. So I stood up and I went like this, you know, showed my palms to show I had nothing in my hands. And I walked forward. I said, hi, I'm Darrell Davis. And Mr. Kelly shook my hand. And the Nighthawk shook my hand.

So so far, so good. I said, thank you. Please, please. Come on and have a seat. Mr. Kelly sat down. And the Nighthawk stood at attention to his right. And before I could sit down, Mr. Kelly says to me, Mr. Davis, do you have any form of identification? I said, sure. Give him my driver's license. He goes, oh, you live on Second Street in Silver Spring. Now, that had me a little concerned. Why is he reading my address? Is he going to come to my house and burn across, you know, whatever? Or worse? Yeah, or worse? You know, all he has to do is look at my name, look at my face on the picture, and look at me, match it up, and give me back my license. And so I did not want to let him know that he is slightly unnerve me. But I want to let him know, you know, don't come to my house with any

nefarious ideas, you know, without permission. And even if you had permission, we better not be nefarious, right? So I said, yes, Mr. Kelly. I said, that is where I live. And you live at. And I named his house number and his street. That way, I was leveling the playing field, right? Yep. Well, he smiled, he nodded his head like he understood. I did not realize that day. It was months later that I really had no reason to be concerned about him coming over to my house uninvited. It was pure coincidence. He recognized my street. One of his members lived right down the road here. My street runs through two neighborhoods. And in order to get to that guy's house, he has to get on my street. So it was just pure coincidence. And I just had no idea at that time. Today, that same

member sits in a federal prison in the state of Maine for committing a hate crime. So he's there for a while. So anyway, so we got on with this interview. And every time my cassette ran out of tape, I'd reach down, get a fresh tape. Or Mr. Kelly would say, Mr. Davis, the Bible says, I'd reach down and pull out the Bible. Every time I reach down like this, the Nighthawk would reach up like this. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. And he never pulled out his gun. He just, you know, rested his hand on the butt of the gun, which I completely understood. That's his job. He's the bodyguard.

I'm the enemy. He doesn't know what's in my bag. So he's doing his job to protect his boss and protect himself. So I got it. So, you know, 45 minutes, you know, later of me reaching down him reaching up, he relaxed. He realized there was no threat in the bag. And, you know, I went in and out and the Nighthawk didn't move. So a little over an hour into this interview.

Mr. Kelly and I were just talking, you know, casually and stuff. And out of nowhere, there was a very fast, very short noise, like a, and we all jumped. Like, what was that? You know, and I jumped up out of my seat, and I hit the table. And I knew that Mr. Kelly had made the noise. I didn't know what it was. The noise was so fast and so short that my ear could not discern what it was. And so I perceived it to be an ominous, threatening noise, right?

And all I could hear in my head was, Daryl, don't feel with Roger Kelly. They'll kill you, you know, the words of, right? And so I'm trying to figure out, you know, what had I done to cause this guy to go off and make some, you know, weird, you know, weird noise. And so at that point, I feared. I feared for my safety. And, you know, when you fear for your life, you go into what's called survival mode. and in survival mode you will do anything and everything to preserve your safety. And there are only several things you can do.

Some people, they faint, they pass out because the fear is so great their brain cannot process it and the brain shuts down and they faint. I don't do that. Another thing people will do, their muscles will constrict and they'll ball up and start shaking and this. You know, you ever seen anybody get into a fight and they ball up into a fight and they ball up into a fetal position. You can be kicking them, punching them.

You know, they're not even trying to block. That's called paralysis by fear. It's a real thing. I don't do that either. Another thing people would do is to run away. That is the best option. If you don't know what the fear is or whatever, separate yourself from it.

Get away from it as quickly as you can. And that is the option that I would have chosen had it been available to me. But it was not available. How am I? going to outrun a bullet in a motel room not happening i'm not yeah i'm not armed mary's not armed the only person that i know for sure who is armed is the nighthawks i can see his weapon right there it's obvious i don't know mr kelly is wearing a suit and tie i don't know if he had a weapon up under his suit jacket or not all i know is i don't want to die that day so you know your your other option your only other option is to do what's called a preemptive strike get them before they get you.

So when I flew out of my chair, hit the table, I was on my way to dive across that little lamp table, grab the night hawk, grab Mr. Kelly, and slam them down to the ground, and take away that night hawk's gun and immobilize that situation, because my job is to protect myself and my secretary. All right?

When I hit that table, I mean, already I'm less than, you know, two or three feet from the guy, But when I hit that table, I'm inches from his face. And I'm looking right into his eyes. And I didn't say one word because my eyes were doing the talking for me. In fact, my eyes were shouting so loud, he could hear my eyes. My eyes were saying to him, what did you just do? Well, his eyes were fixated on me.

And I could read his eyes. His eyes were saying, what did you just do? And then I thought it's like this looking at both of us, like, what are either one of you all just do? So Mary was sitting to my left on top of the dresser because there were no more chairs in the room. And she realized what had happened. And she began explaining it when it happened again. The ice bucket with the soda pop in it, the ice had begun melting and the cans of soda were shifting down the ice. Just cascading down the ice.

And we all began. laughing at how ignorant we all were. And I will say this. I won't say that particular moment was a learning moment. The learning would come later, but it was a teaching moment. Now, it's hard enough to picture a black guy and a clan and a clan leader sitting together in a motel room, let alone a black guy and a clan leader sitting together in a motel room laughing. You know, that just doesn't happen. You know, it's very serious stuff. And anyway, we all were laughing, which proved that we all in that moment were human beings. We all felt fear.

And when the fear was addressed, we all felt relief over the same thing. We exhibited human emotions. Now, here's another lesson that was taught. All because some foreign underscore circle highlight the word. foreign entity of which we were ignorant, that being the bucket of ice Kansas soda. Now, you know, we were aware it was over there, but we'd long forgotten about it because we're so engrossed in conversation. Of course.

Yeah. So all because some foreign entity invaded our little comfort zone via the noise that it made, which we didn't understand, we became fearful of each other. So ignorance breeds fear. We fear those things of which we are ignorant, those things we don't understand. If that fear is not kept in check, that fear in turn will escalate into hatred because we hate the things that frighten us. If that hatred is not kept in check, that in turn will escalate into destruction. We want to destroy the things that we hate.

Why? Because they frighten us. But guess what? At the end of the day, they may have been harmless and we were simply ignorant. And that goes not just for adults. That also goes for kids. Because, you know, a lot of times I will speak to children, you know, elementary school, middle school, whatever, right? You know, I mean, all grade levels. But when I'm talking to little kids, of course, I tone, you know, the lecture down to their level. And sometimes I'll just be standing in the front of the room. And they're sitting at their little desks, you know, know, six rows back, whatever. And I'm just talking casually, whatever. I say, hey, hey, hey, there's a snake under your chair, snake under your chair. And I'll point, you know, down at the ground under, under somebody in the front row's chair. Everybody in the classroom screams and throws their legs and arms up in the air. Right. They throw their legs up in the air, everybody. And they start screaming. And then they realize, you know, there's no snake, you know, and I'm laughing and they're laughing. And I'm like, What's wrong with you?

Why were you all screaming? Oh, I hate snakes. I'm afraid of snakes. There's your hate. There's your fear. I said, well, why do you hate snakes? Why are you afraid of snakes? Well, they're poisonous.

You know, they're slimy. Well, there's your ignorance. Not all snakes are poisonous. And no snake is slimy. They're dry if you ever touch them, right? So there's your ignorance. Ignorance breeds the fear, which breeds the hatred. So I say, okay,

obviously there's no snake under your chair. But let's just pretend that there really was a snake under your chair. What would you want me to do about it? You know what they say? Kill it. Of course. Yeah. There's your destruction.

Ignorance breeds fear, which breeds hatred, which breeds destruction. Of course. And that goes from kids to adults, you know? So I say, you know, we need to stop addressing the destruction. Yes, hold people accountable for destruction. something, but let's not focus our energy on the destruction. What's been destroyed is gone. It's not coming back.

The trade towers in Manhattan are not coming back, okay? The destruction is just a symptom, a byproduct of the root cause. Let's not focus on the hatred. That's another symptom, another byproduct. Let's not even focus on the fear. That's another byproduct. The root cause is the ignorance. If you cure the ignorance, then there's nothing to fear.

With nothing to fear, there's nothing to hate. With nothing to hate, there's nothing to get mad about and destroy. So the good thing is this. There is a cure for ignorance. That cure is called education and exposure. And that's where we need to focus our time, our efforts, our energy, and our resources, our money, whatever. Focus on the ignorance and cure that.

ignorance, and then all those other byproducts will go away. They won't come into play. You know, Darrell, this sounds wonderful, and you're a complete inspiration. As we mentioned before we got on, one of the reasons we wanted to have you on this show is because this show was to try to teach Bitcoiners, at least offer Bitcoiners sort of life lessons that go just beyond the technical or economic ideas behind Bitcoin. And, you know, one of the things we talk about in Bitcoin is that Bitcoin is for enemies in the sense that it's designed. ensures that all participants, regardless of their intentions and how you might feel about them, contribute to its security and resilience. So everybody is working together whether they think they

like the other person they're working with or not. And this even goes to larger issues. There's the saying, you know, when goods and services cross borders, armies don't. You know, you want to trade with each other. And there's some in Bitcoin, myself included, who would argue, you know, that when governments can stop printing money to fund their wars, they'll be less wars, and we often say in Bitcoin, Bitcoin fixes this. I think that there is something to that, and I hope that we do live in a future with less wars. But to your point, I think we are all, we are all animals. We are all emotional creatures. And sometimes those emotions, like you said, fear can override things. So it's so impressive to see you be able to put aside the insults and the hatred

and meet with people in a very level-headed way to try to understand where they're coming from. And as you know, this has not come easily to human beings, myself included. So for any Bitcoiner who's listening, you know, I'm sure you've dealt with people who may not like you, for whatever reason, might be hostile to you, for whatever reason that may be, is how did you come to the point where you were able to kind of keep a level head and listen to people who might otherwise hate you and try to understand them, in the hopes they could better understand you. And is that something that can be taught or learned?

Yes, it can be taught and learned vicariously or through courses and study and that kind of thing, you know, if it does not come natural. I truly believe that everything we do in life is a stepping stone to where we are. And we use that experience to, you know, become who we want to be in the future, I will say this. If I had not, let me put it this way, today I'm a professional musician.

And as I said, music is my profession, but the race relations things is my obsession. I travel around the world performing and lecturing today and around this country. I have performed in all 50 states. When you combine my childhood travels with my folks and my adulthood travels on my own a musician, lecturer, putting together. I've been in a total of 64 countries on six continents. Wow. So, you know, but actually I'm a bit behind because there are, yeah, you know,

there are 195 countries in the world currently. And so a couple of years ago, I met two guys totally unrelated within two or three weeks apart. One guy from California who had been to 125 countries and another guy from Estonia. who had been to 161. Wow. So, like I said, I'm behind, right? I think I've been to like three.

So it's amazing. But what, you know, what I have learned, you know, listen, according to our U.S. Census Bureau, most Americans do not travel. Less than 50% of Americans even own a passport. Wow. Europeans, yeah, yeah, it's true. European people, they travel all the time.

They're always going somewhere. They don't call it vacation. Like, you know, they call it holiday. I'm going on holiday. And, you know, our vacation may be a two-week vacation. Theirs is like two months, you know, what it is, travel the world. And so, you know, so therefore, you know, they're a lot more worldly. Now, all this travel does not make me a better human being than someone with less travel.

But what it does is it gives me a better and broader sense and perspective of humanity than people who have not had that kind of travel and been exposed to different people and cultures around the world. My favorite quote of all time is by the author Mark Twain, otherwise known as Samuel Clemens. It's called the travel quote. And Mark Twain said, Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating and

one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. And that is so true. So here's what I've learned that no matter how far I travel from the United States, whether I go right next door to the 51st state or right next door to Mexico or halfway around the globe, no matter who I meet, you know, they may not look like me. Maybe they don't speak my language or worship as I do or not even worship at all. I always conclude one thing that everybody I've encountered is a human being. And as such, every human being on this planet wants these five core values in their lives. Everyone wants to be loved. Everyone wants to be respected. Everyone wants to be heard. We all want to be treated fairly and truthfully. And we all want the same things for our family as anybody else wants for their family.

and if we can learn to apply those five core values or any of those five values when we find ourselves in an adversarial situation or in a culture or society in which we are unfamiliar or uncomfortable i will guarantee you that your navigation of that society that culture that situation will be much more positive much more smooth and much more productive And I will say this, perhaps if I had not had all that travel experience as a young person and had that exposure, would I be doing this today? Maybe not. Maybe I'd be trying to stay as far away from those people as I could. If my first encounters with white people was having soda pop cans and bottles and rocks thrown at me, I don't want anything to do with those people. Of course. Understandable, too.

Yeah. Yeah, you know. And to your point, Nathan, you know, you mentioned early on. You know, my parents had not forewarned me about this. And sometimes people will ask me, you know, when I'm doing a lecture in the Q&A section, you know, how can you parents, you know, didn't tell you about this? And initially I thought about that. You know, yeah, why didn't they warn me, you know, getting my head knocked up, you know, whatever, right?

In retrospect, I'm glad they didn't tell me, okay? Yes, information is power, but it has to be disseminated, properly. All right. And the reason why I'm glad they didn't tell me because they didn't poison me or make me prejudice, prejudge in advance. Because if I was told all this, then perhaps I would prejudge every white person I'd see without getting to know. Uh-oh, is this guy going to, you know, try to hurt me? Of course. So, yeah, I learned it the hard way, which was unfortunate. But fortunately, I had already had exposure to people who treated me very well. who looked like the people who treated me not so well.

And I think, you know, that's, you know, that's key. That's why it's important, you know, as children that we give them that education, give them that diverse environment so that they grow up being able to navigate society because they're going to run into all kinds of cultures, colors of skin, religions, and whatever else is going on, you know, beyond the confines of their homogenous neighborhood, you know, once they get up and out. And speaking of Bitcoin, you know, do you ever find anybody? You know, Bitcoin is relatively new to the common man.

I mean, it may have been going around for a while. But people who are like, ooh, I don't know. You know, since I can't touch it and feel it in my hand, there's a resistance to. Of course. That's that ignorance. That's that fear. Sure. So how do you convince somebody old school?

Gosh. You know, you don't have to feel it in your hand and hold it and, you know, count your money. deposit it into the bank, all that kind of stuff, or put it in a sock and hide it under your bed. So you're confronting the same ignorance. And how do you, you know, transcend that by exposing them and educating them, which I'm going to ask you to do for me right now. Oh, okay. I was about to say, Darrell, you're asking us. We're hoping to learn techniques from you.

That's why you're here. Well, we're giving each other. All right. All right. Sure. Nathan, do you want to take this one? Well, yeah, I'll jump in there and let me see if I can run with because there's actually a number of things when you were talking that I kept finding these weird little parallels in what you were doing and in your story there as well, too. One of them that really stood out to me was this unbelievable openness.

I'm not sure if you've ever heard like the Big Five personality traits, but I couldn't help but think like what is what is compelling you that you had to make that call and set up that meeting and to continue. And the first one, the first instance is that you knew that the bar was hostile to blacks to begin with, but you were still compelled to go regardless, which just spoke to me about. about kind of preconditions a little bit and personality in terms of like relatively disagreeable. I know I'm not welcome, but I'm still going to go as well as an openness that like I need to have it. And it's it's weird because I couldn't help but think about my own experience because you were talking about like you're a musician who became fascinated with race relations. Well, I worked in medical research and I studied biology, but I became fascinated with economics. And it was that same sort of thing where there was a burning question like, wait, why does there have to be 2% inflation? This doesn't make sense to me.

Why is there money have to constantly be devalued? And what are the consequences of that? And it was those questions that I couldn't get answers to and particularly trying to find a solution for it. Originally for me, I very much saw gold is like the solution to these sort of things. But then as I grew in my understanding, realized the shortcomings,

particularly with censorship and verification. That just threw me down this rabbit hole. And I felt almost possessed in the sense that I needed to continue learning, pursuing, getting more involved, finding out more, I need to have my questions answered. And the other thing that I was kind of drawing a parallel to that really spoke to me was there's a few touch points that they seemed

really, really important in terms of how you were able to progress with people. And it was this idea of coming back to universality, things that are universally human. So I don't think it's a mistake or a coincidence by any stretch of the imagination that your initial contact was through music, which again is another human universal language. We all love music. We all understand music. And then the next one that jumped up me a little bit was also the the Bible references as well too, but more importantly, the laughter. That that probably was a major breakthrough moment with Mr. Kelly in terms of making a connection when you all had this universal expression of laughter. And then going back to your question, okay, like how do we talk to people about Bitcoin? Yeah, that's why we wanted to

have this conversation because it's almost like you get every Bitcoiner goes to their evangelizing phase. You see and it starts with kind of going back to those fundamentals, right? you start to see the problems with the existing monetary system, the problems with the existing structure, and it's hard to think of how we could ever possibly get out of it. And then you find a solution, and you realize the more you learn, the more your confidence and conviction in a solution grows. And not only with that, but you start to have that kind of optimism and hope for the future. For me personally, I was very kind of, I was kind of referred to as like economic nihilism. Like I was aware that like, okay, sound money would be better for the people.

gold is the best option what we have but it'll always get centralized in banks they'll always re-hypothecate it it's never going to work it can't work and it was kind of this doom and gloom and that when I found when I found Bitcoin money that nobody could print

nobody could confiscate nobody could censor your transactions a completely neutral language for value transmission in the same sense as like music is a mutual universal language that I had all this great hope

and I wanted to tell everybody about it but nobody cared as like I couldn't I couldn't Orange pill being the expression for, you know, talking somebody to about Bitcoin, you're right. Most people are very apprehensive. It's not matching up with their previous experience. It doesn't match up with their previous worldview. It may not even match up with how they've already been successful in their life. Like if you've made a lot of money in the traditional finance sector, you're going to look at Bitcoin as a threat, right? You're going to have that ignorance about it.

You're going to hate it because it potentially is a threat to your livelihood if we move to a monetary system, and you might actually move to the point of wanting to destroy it. And so what I'm taking away in that I'm really want to kind of almost expand upon, and Gary, I'll get your insight as well, too, is that even in everything that you're doing, so the idea with Bitcoin being the, you know, fix the money, fix the world, is that we're going back to the base layer. Like, you've got to go right back to the very beginning. We don't focus on destruction.

We're not focusing on hatred. You have to go back to the fear. And even in the sense of Bitcoin, it's that the problem isn't how. you know, government money is being allocated or where the funds necessary. The problem is actually that there's a fundamental problem in the money itself and we've got to go back there. And what I'm realizing talking to you is that there's almost no hope necessarily in being able to convince somebody of the hope and optimism and the promise or what we can maybe want to accomplish with Bitcoin. If they can't first go back from where they are to understand the ignorance

of the current system, if they can't see the problem, if they can't get back, act like, no, the reason, one of the reasons that you need to have, you know, two incomes and you're struggling, whereas your grandparents, it was one income, mom stayed home, seven kids, you were good to go, is because your currency has been debased the whole time. Your house isn't getting more valuable. Your dollar's just getting worth less. And if we can't take the time to empathize with them in the position that they are, one, I like, I love those five points. I had to write them down. I think it was love, respected, heard, treat fairly, and same thing for your family. that if we can't at least try to communicate with them on that level,

they're never going to be open to the conversation. And if they're never going to be open to the conversation, we're never going to have a chance to even address or try to outline the problems. And so with that, yeah, the reason that I really want to talk to you is because I joke that, and people in the Bitcoin space, friends that I talk to, they're so invested in, and I don't mean that in like a financial sense,

and what this could actually bring in terms of peace and prosperity, not only for like North America, but around the globe, right? It's a fair game for everybody to take a example that I've heard Ben talk about the BTC sessions on this channel is that in the existing system, governments and banks can print money, and that's to their advantage. We very much so distinguished Bitcoin from crypto, not the same thing. In the crypto infrastructure, everybody can print money. And in Bitcoin, nobody can print money. And essentially, it's we're all going to play by the same fair rules, no matter who you are. It's that equal treatment, that fairness for everybody that's involved.

And we get so excited about what it could mean for the future that we try to tell everybody, but so many people get so quickly discouraged. And I think it's because they're almost, it's almost like they're running to the destruction. They're trying to get to the point and explain to them that, at least this is what I'm kind of picking up from the conversation, that no, no, no, you need to go back to where you kind of had your eureka moment. You need to connect with them on a universal language, something, about their family, something about wanting to be loved, something about just human emotion and expression and goals and desires. You have to go back to the root cause if you want to

inject some information about the root money. Now, Gary, I've been rambling for a little while because I've been loving this conversation and very excited about it. Do you want to give me your thoughts on it, pal? I was going to say, Daryl, you see how excited we get about this stuff? Yeah, yeah, to your question of what is Bitcoin and, you know, when people say I can't feel it, I can't touch it, I can't store it away, that's certainly something that I first thought when I got involved in it. And it's something that I don't expect people to get overnight. And I think one of the things that inspired me from your perspective, and I've watched some of your videos, and I've read about you, is that you don't go in talking to somebody,

expecting to change their mind on the first day within five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, because that's not going to happen. They have a certain worldview. and they have a bit of a defensive wall up against your worldview. And what I've tried to do when talking with people about Bitcoin, and I want to be, you know, let's be very clear, you know, Bitcoin is you're having trouble talking to people of Bitcoin is nowhere near on the level of talking to somebody who hates you because of some immutable characteristic like the color of your skin.

I mean, Gary, I was going to say, I have no excuse not to go out and try to talk to people about this again. There's no, there's no excuse. Nobody who is not as a Bitcoin, is going to be like, ah, that Bitcoin over there, I'm going to go burn a dollar sign on his lawn. You know, it's not going to happen. I feel perfectly safe. So I don't even mean to compare these two because they're not even close. But one thing I have tried to take away from it is when I do talk to people about it, I try to listen more than I talk. I try to understand where they're coming

from because if somebody else feels heard, they're, as you have said, I believe, they're more open to be willing to hear you. And I know this is not going to be an overnight process. For me, it wasn't. And I was somebody who was interested in this, you know, way back in like 2013 is when I started dabbling it a little bit. And even then, it took eight, nine years for me to fully, fully, fully, after reading and learning a lot, being, okay, I'm fully in now. I get it. I understand. Because I was hedging for a very long time. Gosh, this sounds great. It's money that can't be censored. nobody can stop me if I want to send something to somebody else. Like I know you're an advisor for the social media app minds.

And one of their great things is we want to have hard conversations. We don't want to censor people. We want people to be willing to express themselves and talk about difficult subjects. So on a monetary level, we don't want to be censored either. If I want to send you money, you want to send me for whatever reason, we want that to be uncensurable. So that sounds great. The government can't just print a bunch of it and lower the value of it. it. That sounds great. It all sounded great and it all sounded too good to be true for me.

And we all reminded of the cliché, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Exactly. Yeah. And I said to myself for a long time, you know, I'm not the smartest person in the world, but I feel like I'm smart enough to know that I'm not that smart. So what am I missing? What is here? I so want this to be true in my soul, I must be blinded to something. I must be missing something. So yeah, that's what I tried to do when talking to people about Bitcoin. But, you know, again, I want this to be something that even Bitcorners can learn from beyond Bitcoin, just in their daily lives. Because even when you have people trading in Bitcoin, like you said, there's still going to be people that hate and fear other people for whatever reason. Even if we have this great harmonious Bitcoin world, we are still,

you know, social animals. And I want you have said what's destroyed is what's destroyed but we have to be willing to try to build from here and that's a great thing to say and as you've said it I thought to myself

gosh that is really good and for many things it is so it sounds wonderful but for some people in some situations that is easier said than done I see pictures of wars going on in the world right now and I see some horrible horrible images I'm not going to get into right now and I put myself in the situation

And I thought, you know, if I'm the father of this child who I just saw this horrible thing happened to who I don't have anymore, what you're telling me you may be right that I have, what's gone is gone and this is not going to help. But man, I'm a social animal and I'm putting myself in that situation. I'm thinking, you know what? I have nothing left to live for. I don't want to say how many people can I take out with me? Because, eff it. You know, I'm so distraught. And most people, of course, are not in that situation.

thank goodness. But again, it's easier said than done. It's real. And how do you do it? Because it's so amazing. Okay. So, and this will help both of you understand. And this can be applied to your bitcoins, you know, the new ones who are skeptical on the fence or not even near the fence yet. All right. We've all heard the expression, one's perception is one's reality. All right. And that's so true. Whatever somebody perceives, becomes their reality, even if it's not real, it's their reality. Get it through your head.

You cannot change anyone's reality. Say that again, you cannot change anyone's reality. Only they can change it. So if you want somebody's, if you see something wrong with their reality, do not attack it. because if you attack somebody's reality, they're going to push back. They're going to resist because to them it's real. And you are attacking what they know to be fact. All right.

So they're going to resist. And if you continue the attack, they're going to escalate. And to yelling and screaming. And then that escalates is going to be physical clash. Right. So never attack someone's reality, no matter how much you know it's not real, it's only in their mind. What you want to do is you want to offer them a better perception or better perceptions, plural. If they resonate with one of your perceptions, then they will change

their own reality because their perception becomes their reality. So let me give you, I'll give you two examples, one hypothetical and one real life. All right, hypothetical one first. So let's just say, Gary, you have an eight or nine-year-old brother. And he goes to a magic show with his buddies. And he comes home and says, Gary, you're not going to believe this man. You know, this magician on stage, he asked for a female volunteer and 50, 60 women raise their hand. And he picked one out of the audience and brought her up on stage. You know, where are you from? What's your name?

And then he had her climb into this long box and put her feet out the hole at that end and put her head out the hole at this end. and then he closed the box and he took a chainsaw and went right through the middle of the box chainsaw came out the bottom of the box he cut her in half and then he told her to wiggle her feet out that hole and she wiggled her feet

and you said listen it didn't happen like that yes it did I was there you weren't there I saw it with my own eyes right he is 100% correct you are you are not there you did not see it he was there and he saw it

he knows this man cut that woman in half how dare you tell me I didn't see what I saw you weren't even there right so you have attacked his reality and he's going to push back and rightfully so and then to prove to you

that this guy really did what he said he was going to do he tells you after this man went through the box and cut her in half he took the half with the feet and moved that over here to stage right and took the half with the head and moved it over there to stage left and then he walked over there and spoke to the woman's head and she talked back to him they had a conversation And then he brought the two halves back together. He did some abracadabry incantation.

And then he opened the lid. And the lady climbed out, you know, full form, no blood. He cut her in half, put her back together. No, listen, that's an illusion. No, it's not. I'm telling you, it's not. I saw it. You know, now you've escalated him.

Because you're calling him a liar, basically. Telling him he didn't see what he saw. You have attacked his reality. He's going to defend. Yeah. Okay. So you'll get nowhere attacking anybody's reality, whether there's a magic show, whether it's their racism or anti-Semitism, or whether it's their skepticism of Bitcoin. All right?

What you want to do is, rather than attack their reality, offer them a better perception or perceptions. So what you do is after he tells you this story and you realize, no, something's amiss here, you know, offer him a better perception. Say, listen, I hear what you're saying. But let me ask you a question. Do you think that maybe it's possible, just perhaps, this maybe, that this woman, you know, when the guy asked for a female volunteer and all these women raised their hand and he picked one out of the audience, you think it's possible that perhaps she works for him, she knows the trick, and she travels all around the country with him and always sits in that same theater seat wherever they go.

That way he looks around and he always zeroes in on her, brings her up on stage. and when she climbs into the box there's a pair of mannequin dummy legs laying on the floor of the box that are wearing the same stockings and same high heels that she has on so when she gets into the box she takes the ends of those handles and shoves them out the hole so her feet shoes are sticking out the hole and she takes her her knees and brings them up under her own chest so now her body is sitting all the way over on the in that half of the box. When the saw goes through, it never even touches her. When he says, wiggle your feet, she just reaches over, grabs the handles, and just shakes

them, and the feet wiggle outside the hole. Right? And then when he separates the two halves and puts the feet over there on stage right, they can no longer move. So he has to distract your attention from looking at them. So of course he's going to walk over here and talk to her head, because you're going to follow him with your

eyes, right? He doesn't want you looking at those immobile feet over there, right? Of course she's going to talk back. Her whole body is there. So now, when he brings the two halves back together, she simply pulls those feet back in, leaves the poles, the dummy legs in the box, and she climbs out. And your brother says, hmm, you know, that might be the only way that could work. You've offered him a better perception, which has resonated with him. and his perception becomes his reality. So you've allowed him to arrive at your conclusion that you knew all along. But if you attack somebody's reality and tell them, you know, they're wrong, they're going to resist.

Nobody wants to be told that they're wrong and they're lying and they're stupid, you know, whatever else. You know, Daryl, you're giving away the trick here. If you've thought the clan hated you, the Magician's Guild is going to really... Well, I got to tell you, God's honest truth. I got to tell you, I saw David Copperfield in person. I saw him make an elephant disappear. And he made that thing disappear. That's all you know.

And there's no way we could convince you otherwise because I have no idea how he did that trick. That's right. You're going to escalate me immediately. You tell me I didn't see that. Are you still keeping your Bitcoin on the exchange? Are you confident in your current Bitcoin setup? At Bitcoin Mentor, we've helped hundreds of people level up their security and fast track their Bitcoin understanding.

If you find that you say we don't have time to go through all the tutorials, the books and the guys, you can book a free strategy session with me by simply scanning the QR code or clicking the link in the description down below. Discover how Ben, Gary, myself, the entire expert team at Bitcoin Mentor can help you accelerate your Bitcoin Journey. Simply scan the QR code or head to Bitcoin Mentor.io to learn more about how we can help you. The one thing that I do want to touch on, we did hint at it a little bit too, but I think it's

really important to kind of convey because we're talking about these strategies for talking, for building relationships against over kind of hostile waters. But before we go, Darrell, I did want to make sure we touched on, because you have had a number of success in building these friendships and then, you know, not convincing people, but almost guiding people out of this way of life, guiding people out of the Ku Klux Klan. I was wondering if you just even talk about some, how many, kind of like, what has your success been with this kind of this empathetic tactic? It's been great, okay? Otherwise, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be continuing down this path. over 200. I've lost track. Wow. But over 200, over the years, yeah, have renounced that ideology. Some of them even come out with me on my lecture circuit and stand on stage with me and renounce their former movement,

whether it's Nazi or Klan or whatever. And they work hard to de-radicalize people still in that movement or try to prevent young people from going down that rabbit hole. I'm starting to jump. Can I emphasize how impressive a number 200 is because this isn't like convincing somebody to switch from Coke to Pepsi. This is like a fundamental shift in their perception of reality. And as we said, it takes a long time. It's not going to happen in just one meeting. So 500 people say, you know what? Am I fundamentally at my core? I've been thinking about this all wrong is incredibly impressive. But you know, as I pointed out, I majored in music. I'm a musician. I did not major in psychology or sociology. So if I can do this, any,

can do it if they go about it the right way. And I talk about that, you know, in my brand new book. You know, this is my second book. My first book was called Clandestine Relationships. Hold it up to the screen. Let's all see it. Yes. Yeah. That's my first book. That book is out of print now. And don't go on Amazon or eBay and try and buy it because some booksellers have leftover copies. And because it's out of print, they skyrocketed the price. Don't do it. All right. The new book is called the Klan Whisperer. It just came out. And it has everything from the old book in it, plus updates and new stories. The old book came out in 1997. So a lot of things have transpired since then. And in the new book, I talk about, you know, how people can go about doing these

kinds of things and having conversations. And it applies universally, as I pointed out before, to skeptical bitcoinsers or to people having issues with, it may not even be racial issues. You know, other hot topics, abortion, nuclear weapons, the war between Gaza and Israel, Ukraine and Russia. You're on one side. Somebody else is on the other side. How to have those conversations. How to apply those five core values.

I get so upset when I hear people say, you know, I'm not going to my family's home for Thanksgiving dinner because my sister voted for so-and-so and I voted for this one. It's such a trope. Yeah. You know, that's crazy. Yeah. Because no matter who becomes president, they're only going to be there in this country for a minimum of four years and a maximum of eight years. How long have you been with your family?

Decades. Yeah. And you're going to throw away a relationship with your best friend or your sister, your brother, your father or mother over that. No. And even if you think they're thinking the wrong way, do you think calling them names and then saying now after I've called you these names, I'm not going to speak to you. anymore. Will that help them reconsider their thoughts? Right. And that's why it's so important to have these conversations. And once you listen to them, you know, you may not agree, but at least you'll understand what triggered them to vote in that direction. And then when they hear you, they might

understand why you voted the other way. And so even if you don't change minds, you know, you will at least understand why each one did it. And there'll be less, you know, animosity between the two of you. and more respect. So Darrell, before we do let you go here, before we close out this call, could you please tell everybody in the audience where are thinking they go to learn more about you? Where should they go and check you out on the internet online too? And then just to remind everybody, too, the new book is called The Clan Whisper. Go and check that out. I assume it's on Amazon and good to go. Yep.

Clan Whisper on Amazon.com. And they can go to Darrell Davis.com. And Darrell is spelled D-A-R-Y-L, only one R. And as you go there or at Real Darrell Davis on Instagram and, you know, X and LinkedIn and all that good stuff. If you enjoyed this episode with Darrell Davis, check out our previous interview with Dr. Bob Murphy on Austrian economics and Bitcoin. And don't forget to like and subscribe.