BTC Sessions - Saylor Just SLAMMED Bitcoin Core Devs — NO ONE Expected This!

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Michael Saylor just made shocking comments about the Bitcoin Core developer community—and it’s not what anyone expected. Whether you think Saylor’s a hero or overstepping, this moment could mark a major turning point in Bitcoin governance and long-term vision. Here’s exactly what he said—and what it means for Bitcoiners.BOOK private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------FOLLOW BTC Sessions on X: x.com/BTCsessions—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions AQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCpCRYPTOCLOAKShttps://qrco.de/bg5Dvo#btc #bitcoin #crypto

At the inaugural Bitcoin Treasury Unconference, Michael Saylor was asked about the growing rivalry between Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Knotts, the two most widely run implementations of the Bitcoin Protocol. His answer was surprising to me, and it's already made more than a few people, maybe a little angry. Sailor's way in begs the question, are we on a trajectory not unlike the one in 2017, where we had a Bitcoin Civil War of sorts. Now, we're not at the point of hard forking or anything like that, but there is a lot of tension. In a minute, I will be playing for you the clip so you can decide about what he said yourself. Now, that's not the only thing that Sailor dropped at this event.

He had another very interesting quote that sent Microstrategy shares soaring. So stick around to hear exactly what he said and why it may change a little bit about how you think about MSTR. So everybody, drop a like, buckle in. It's going to be a great show. I'm Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your weekly session. And I want to welcome to the stage my co-host with the most, Mr. Nathan Fitzsimmons of Bitcoin Mentor. How you doing, buddy?

I'm doing good, sir. Did you see that Minero still sucks? I did see that. I saw some sucking, really. recently. So I'm sure we'll touch on that in a little bit. I think we will. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's let's let's let's chat about the topic at hand. There was some saucy comments from Mr. Saylor himself here. So I'm going to pull this up and this was actually, let's get us over here. We'll look. Oh, handsome.

So yeah, this was at the the Bitcoin Treasury on conference in New York City just the other day. And he, And he was asked in a live Q&A what he thought about, you know, what was happening with Bitcoin Core. There's a lot of people kind of pushing back in regards to a soon-to-be update. And so we'll leave that there. Let's just take a listen to what he had to say and then what other people wanted to chime in with it. I have my thoughts. I'm sure you'll have yours. Let's just take a quick little gander at it.

I think protocol proposals, however well-intentioned, can go horribly wrong. And I think that the late debate, that this debate we see right now over op-return limits, this is actually a second order or maybe even a third-order change. It's not changing the amount of Bitcoin, which of course is an atomic zero-order change. It's not changing the block side, which is the first-order change. It's somewhere in the second and a half to third order. But the reaction of the community, which is to reject it, you know, an inflammatory reaction, I thought it was a healthy response.

It's healthy to be skeptical of a third order change to the protocol, right? Because it might become a second order change, and it might be – and if it's a first order change, it puts everything at risk. And the biggest danger is a very talented, well-funded, well-intentioned developer. trying to do something good. That's the danger. And that is fundamentally the issue, which is a very competent, well-funded, well-intentioned developer that wants to upgrade the protocol. That is the risk. The risk is, I've said this tongue-in-cheek before in my long business career, I don't regret my bad ideas because no one's stupid enough to pursue their bad ideas.

I regret all of the good ideas that I pursued to the, you know, to the detriment of my great idea. Like, it's the good ideas that, that actually dilute the product, dilute the brand, dilute the network, and destroy the company. The good ideas will destroy the company. The good idea for Bitcoin will destroy Bitcoin. If I want to destroy Bitcoin, I would just fund infinite developers who are very talented and tell them to make it better. Oh, a little, little spicy there.

Now, we did have a little bit of people pointing fingers. Who's he talking about there? I mean, I've got my own ideas, but we did have a little bit of the Spider-Man meme happening. It's about you. No, it's about you. No, it's not about any of us. Even the tweet that I shared initially that this was from, this is Adam Semeck, and he said, Saylor isn't making the case for naught specifically.

He is making the case to leave Bitcoin alone. people think the choice is between corn knots, it's not. To ossify would mean to fire all the Bitcoin devs and just leave it how it is. Now there's, yeah, so there's been a lot of back and forth on this whole topic. And I actually was a little surprised at Sailor's response, not because it falls out of line with his ideas in and around kind of, you know, leaving the thing alone as much as possible. and being careful and very cautious about upgrades. But I kind of just assumed he would tow the line with core and just say, yeah, well, I mean, this is the reference implementation.

We're just, you know, just cleaning things up. And I didn't think that he would, I mean, some of the quotes there, you know, him saying that effectively that knots as a reaction to the trajectory of Bitcoin core and some of the changes being implemented was healthy, was a healthy reaction and also pointing out that if he wanted to kill bitcoin he would just hire a team of developers to 24-7 work on making it better um so i you know i think he's he's not assigning ill intent to bitcoin core but he is saying like yeah good maybe there should be some questioning of of how things go forward now um a couple other quotes because this is there is a longer i'm

encourage you you you can go back and watch the videos from the event over the weekend. Again, it was the inaugural Bitcoin, uh, sorry, Bitcoin Treasury on conference. And, uh, but a couple other quotes. I won't play this whole thing here. There's another seven minute video from the same chunk here. Um, but he did say the lack of features is the feature. And another thing he said was there will be other implementations of Bitcoin that will form that will keep us from going off the rails. And this is how I'm tending to look at the whole situation right now is, I mean, are the filters overall going to work? Well, it really kind of depends on, you know. How you define work?

Yeah, well, exactly. And, you know, it would take, you know, a fair amount. Well, basically you'd have to have most of the network kind of switching over for really, really to take place. And there's some nuance there. But nonetheless, the way I view it is, one, if you're just running it just because, and it's not an economic node, you're not linking wallet activity or anything like that to it, then really it's just a redundant copy of the Bitcoin blockchain, which isn't really having much of an effect either way. If it is an economic note, then yeah, you're implementing your Mempool policy. You're doing all of that. But still, it's going to have to have a larger piece of the pie than it does right now.

Although we're sitting at about 20% of nodes out there right now, reachable nodes that are running Bitcoin knots. Bitcoin core currently below 80%. The interesting thing here. year is that Nott's was like not long ago what a year year and a half ago it was like pretty sure it was zero point four you can see there's been little bumps along the way but i'm pretty sure it may have been sub 1% before this really kicked off yeah yeah so if anything what i'm viewing this as is um a way for individuals also to kind of be vocal about concerns around the

trajectory of development. You know, this would obviously have to be a much larger number to really take an effect, but it's grown pretty quick. So I think that it's important that developers in general do take note because this isn't nothing. Like there is a degree of discontent here. The other interesting thing, and to caveat this number on the story. screen, there was just the latest update for both core and knots. And some of the knots nodes

were being double counted during the upgrade. And so I think we had both Luke and mechanics saying, hey, like these numbers may come through really exaggerated for a while before they correct. And we have this graph here of kind of the line of the growth in knots over time. And then we have this crazy spike and then kind of a dip below and then a return pretty much to what would look like the same gradual line increase. So this 20% number may actually be relatively accurate if you just kind of extend the line here. We're at a place where it's somewhere in and around the range where it would be if we just kind of kept with the existing trajectory. So yeah, I don't know, Nathan, what are what are your thoughts here in and around?

all of this and and sailor actually giving an opinion on this because he's been not it i didn't even think he would really weigh in on it to be honest well this is perfectly in line with what his actions prior like uh i definitely i you know i was wrong on this one gave him a hard time for not funding developers before but now it's quite clear he didn't fund developers because he didn't want to attack the network so at least we know in that respects he's kind of on at least in his eyes being a good guy. I think that it is very interesting. Vijay made sort of the same point to me, too, that like really we should be looking at kind of ossification that we should be looking at, like, we don't want to mess with this. And it goes, and I know Jimmy Song, I think, touched on it as well, too.

It's the unknown unknowns, right? Because no one ever implements an upgrade or a policy, knowing that it's going to cause a problem or have a bug or create an issue, right? You wouldn't do it if you knew that was going to happen. It's the unknown unknowns that when we're dealing with something that is like the greatest hope for humanity, a $2 trillion asset, the best money that's ever existed, don't screw with it. It's like first do no harm is kind of the requirement. I like the idea of multiple implementations. I have been a fan of that for a while in the sense that people are corruptible or they make mistakes, right?

Just gives us more redundancy and more eyes on things as well as not being so concentrated in one group of people that could come under coercion. I don't think that there's necessarily any maliciousness here. I think he has a really good point. The other thing, and I hear this, I've heard this talked about in kind of like trading spaces and stuff before as well too. One of the hardest things you can do as like a trader, and I would imagine it be for like these developers who are brilliant, at what they do and want to contribute is to do nothing. The correct answer is to sit on your hands and do nothing. Just do some maintenance, just do some slight upgrades but not actually make any meaningful

changes. And that can be difficult for ambitious, smart people, right? It's not their instinct. I was kind of curious, though. I was thinking about this too. I wonder if any of the at the Treasury Unconference, that any of the Treasury miners or Treasury developers, did they weigh in on these technical issues? Not that I've seen.

I don't know if you, are you writing on an M. STR node? I have been, yes. I've been running MSTR knots for a while now, at least a week. Really, really trying to filter out the spam on those not shares. Every day, every day. It's funny. I'm surprised to see a Treasury unconference.

I still think that the, I think strategy has a long way to go. I think that's kind of a bad idea, and it's not good. Well, if you saw NACA, I don't think the Treasury gameplay is going to continue forward very well. Yeah, we're going to have to pull up that in a second. Now, before, actually, we're going to chat about MSTR and a sec here because sailor dropped some interesting tidbits when he was asked, which ended up sending shares going, I think it's up still 6%. 6%.

6% last it looked like 5.8, yeah. Yeah, it did get up to like 8%. But anyways, before we change gears to that, I do want to say, again, this channel, the main thing that we like to focus on, obviously we have fun. We chat about, you know, the news and the price and stuff like that. That's all fun and good. but you do want to actually partake in Bitcoin. You do want to actually use the tools at your disposal.

And I think overall it's a good thing to be running a node. And so if you do want to run a Bitcoin node, then I highly encourage you to do so. So I do have tutorials actually on how to run both types of node implementation. So there's one on Bitcoin knots. And I guess to lean into the legitimacy of some of those numbers, this video, 40,000 people have watched a video on what I thought was a very niche topic on how to run knots. So very, very interesting there. But nonetheless, I've got a video on how to run that, whether it's just on your desktop or through Umbroar Start 9. And if you're already on core, how to switch over.

But just to ruffle even more feathers here of people watching, if you want to run core. I also have a video on how to do that. And you can also take a look at my original Umbrolet and Start 9 videos. And they will show you how to run core on that because at the time when I made them, I was running core because there wasn't all this stuff going on. And furthermore to really kind of show I'm kind of, so here's my update screen on my Start 9 because I have run both, it gives me the option to upgrade Bitcoin Core

versus Bitcoin Knotts. Shocked face right now on this particular machine, I'm running core. Reason being is I'm playing with Ashi Garu and Dojo, and I don't think they play nice with knots. So anyways, there's core on that machine. And on Umbrell, there's knots,

but there's also a core beside it um so yeah i'm that i'm doing the tutorials i got to i got have everything at my my disposal people just a friendly fence sitter there ben not making any decisions whatsoever i've decided why don't i just end bitcoin myself why don't i just completely destroy the protocol what fund the devs i was going to say why don't we just come up with our own btc sessions client right we'll just have you know bitcoin sessions where every every transaction will include a large operant of you dancing at the light coin conference. I think that would be the way to go. Perfect. Perfect. I love it. I love it. Well, let's, on the note that we were talking about before regarding micro strategy. So what did sailors say? In a Q&A, he said that he is open to selling

calls or warrants to fund dividends. And here's a kicker in a worst case scenario, even selling Bitcoin itself to cover said dividends. Now, this is contrary to the never-ever-selling Bitcoin, you know, fundamental promise of MSDR. Granted, the question was, in a worst-case scenario, what would you do? And despite, I guess, what would have been my initial thought of, oh, he said he might at some point sell Bitcoin price goes down, it actually went up because people viewed it as a reasonable option in worst case scenario that they're still going to get their dividends, I guess.

So yeah, up 6% on the day still. So here's the, here's the private year. I'm probably that a little bit revealing. It's like, oh, so you're not buying it for the Bitcoin. You are buying it for the share. Yeah, it's not it's not the price per share. It's the, the Fiat return. it would seem. So, yeah, interesting. I think it's worth kind of pointing out there too, because this is something that Vizier pointed out

to Gary and I, is that there is the, like that might even be forced upon him at some point. That risk is there. That if the Bitcoin, if they're valued at less than MNAV, if they kind of go below one in terms of MNAV, that there is money to be made by people coming in

and basically buying up the shares in order to sell the Bitcoin and then buy more shares. That the underlying asset is worth more than the company, you risk people stepping in because it's a public trade company and trying to basically dismantle its parts and sell it for a profit. Yeah. Now, the other interesting thing here, now,

he says this at the conference where, in a worst case scenario, yes, we would look at selling Bitcoin, but that would be kind of the very last thing to do. Now, he also did mention, remember he came out and said that proof of reserves is a security risk. security risk and that sat

poorly with a lot of Bitcoiners because it's the security risk again comes in comes in revealing to the world how much Bitcoin one holds because then it's it's a honey pot you're painting a target but as a company that is reporting saying

hey we've got so much Bitcoin this is why we want you to own our company and this is the value proposition I you know just because you show an address doesn't mean that you can work backwards and compromise it. You know, you have El Salvador's address, you know, their public address where they're cycling in Bitcoin. You have that and that does, it's not a security risk to the Bitcoin underlying. It's just how do you handle the key material. Now, the interesting thing is he did

mention that in this event that it's an evolving situation and they're looking at it. So it's something to that effect. So it seems like. like maybe changing gears on that. And I remember speaking with Marty Bent, and he was saying that it's possible that they're not fans of showing public addresses because there may be a need to move Bitcoin around, but there also may be a need to sell Bitcoin at some point and reaccumulate it through other means so that net you end up having the same exposure to Bitcoin so you can report you have the same but in different vehicles in different ways and if you have publicly viewable addresses

it may spook markets when a bunch of Bitcoin flows out or something else happens. That happens all the time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, I'm wondering if his lightning on the idea of public proof of reserves is also coming in line with his, yeah, we may utilize Bitcoin. You know, he's kind of lightning on that. Does it become a, listen, we're going to move Bitcoin around. We're going to do all these different things. And it may ebb and flow. But over a longer time horizon, we're looking at we want to accumulate Bitcoin.

Does it become a little bit more loosey-goosey than the stated, we're going to continue buying Bitcoin, having it there, never moving it, never selling it? I don't know. I think it's probably smart for him to get it out in public and I also start to normalize the ability to move it. I think that's where he wants to be, to avoid that market reaction, like, oh, my God,

say those funds move, like maybe they're just changing to new wallet set up. Maybe they were just reallocating. Or again, they had to do some sort of financial maneuvering in the background or maybe they were selling some sort of cover calls or something. Who knows, right? They're going to want to try and capitalize. that. Remember, they were rejected from the S&P.

And part of that speculation was because they're basically just like an ETF, right? They're not actually a company. So maybe he wants to use that Bitcoin collateral in some sort of a business-related way that requires potentially moving it around. But in order to do that, again, normalize it getting out there. Because you're right, there's no security risk. I mean, we have

a lot of newcomers that stopped by the show. And by the way, thank you. Wonderful. Glad to have you here. But for anyone who's not expressly aware, every Bitcoin address with the balance is fully available for audit. You can see all of it. You just don't know who owns what. So there's no security risk at all by simply knowing the address. But there might be some sort of a security in terms of MSTR risk by knowing that.

Yeah, yeah. Maybe he just meant security as in the stock. Maybe just all misinterpreted him. Maybe we have no idea. Now, we had on the show yesterday the wonderful James Lavish, and we were talking all about the craziness of markets in and around the Fed rate cuts that happened the other day. there was a really interesting find from marty over at tf tc in and around uh some of the guidance and and uh talk from jerome powell and the fed and it points to a fundamental change at the mandates

of the federal reserve which could really i mean it's it's an indication of what's to come It's an indication of money printer go burr. It's an indication of forth-turning powers that be trying to hold on for dear life as the wheels come off the thing. And we're going to chat about that on the other side of this. We've got an interesting. And then just the chaos that is these indicators that things are not all well and good in the economy as a whole. And we're kind of we're starting to see an inkling of that in the big. Bitcoin price too. I think it took took a little bit, but people are starting to have in mind,

hey, maybe stacking some sats is a good idea. So we're going to chat about that in a minute. Everybody that's here, again, if you're brand new to the channel, thank you for being here, smash the like button, subscribe if you're not already. On the other side of the quick break, shout out to sponsors, we are going to actually also give away some sats. All you need is a lightning wallet on your phone, and you just got to be quick on scanning the QR code that comes up. So we'll be back in just a minute. Stay tuned. Bitcoin Well is the best place to be buying and selling Bitcoin in Canada and the US.

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You can head over to debify.com to check them out or simply scan the QR code on the screen. All right. We are right back in. If you are watching, we're here on the Bitcoin Well dashboard. Awesome place to be buying Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S. but we're going to give away some. So to pull out your lightning wallets, the way it works is when you sign up,

when you buy Bitcoin, when you refer friends, you earn points, which you can then redeem for awesome swag. I might grab some bit axes. I've got to add to the shelf here. I've got some points going. But you can also use the points to throw a coin in the well and have a chance to win up to a million sets every single time.

That's what I'm going to do right now. And the first person to scan the QR code that pops up on the screen will steal the Bitcoin from everyone else. You just need a lightning wallet to scan it with. And so that's 532 sats to whoever scans it first. If you get an error, you weren't quick enough. Let's take a peek at the Bitcoin price right now. We're sitting at 117,322.

Not bad. And it's funny because the other day we had Jerome Powell announcing that, yes, indeed, they are cutting rates by 25 basis points. And Bitcoin, like, on the day, just took a dump all the way down to, like, it was in the 11th's for a while. And then it just started pumping back up again. We didn't even see a real spike from it when the announcement came out. But gold, on the other hand, went way up to new all-time highs and then tanked again and was

down on the day. It was kind of crazy to watch. But nonetheless, we're kind of we're back up above where we were yesterday at any point, which is interesting to see. Now, that wasn't the only thing to come out of the Fed meeting here. And I wanted to bring up this. Larry Lepard here, of course, quoting TFTC. But let's take a look at this.

So the Fed third mandate forces bond traders to rethink an age-old rule. This is from Bloomberg. the Federal Reserve's dual mandate of price stability and maximum employment may be supplemented by a third mandate to pursue moderate long-term interest rates, as cited by Donald Trump's pick for Fed Governor Stephen, Stephen, or Stephen or Stephen, I think Stephen. The mention of the third mandate has sparked debate among analysts with some seeing it as a sign that the administration intends to wield monetary policy to influence longer-term bond yields,

the potential for the Treasury and Fed to intervene in the bond market to bring down long-dated interest rates has raised concerns about the risk of adverse effects, particularly inflation and the erosion of the Fed's independence. So let's break this down in layman's terms. What the hell does any of that mean? So, I mean, the Fed can can set interest rates, the overnight rate. And then kind of all of all of the bonds, the government debt, basically the government saying,

hey, we want to borrow money from you. We will pay it back to you at whatever interval plus interest, whatever the interest rate may be. A lot of that is pegged off of the Fed's overnight rate. And so short duration stuff is going to be really close to whatever that rate is. But the expectation for people that are buying bonds for longer periods of time, a lot can happen over longer periods of time. And so it's meant to be as risk averse as possible because realistically, the government will always just have enough money to pay you or print more.

So nominally, the risk isn't there. But what about inflation? What if inflation were higher than the interest rate on the bonds? And this is what we're seeing from a lot of the bonds, is that the interest rates that people are willing to buy bonds at are not high enough. They're trying to go higher. They're forced to offer higher interest rates on these bonds, but they don't want to.

Reason being is the debt in the U.S. is out of control, and they're not going to be able to pay back the interest rates on these bonds if they continue to go up. If we take a look after dipping below 4% for the first time since April, following today's rate cut, the 10-year government bond is now pointing to higher rates. This means costlier debt servicing and mortgage rates, even as the Fed fund rate moves lower. And actually, if we look at the rates today, it's high. higher than it was yesterday, 4.11%. So it has moved up.

And so what this means and what this original third mandate thing I was showing means is if they can't sell bonds, they need to entice the market to buy them by raising the interest rate saying, we'll pay you more interest on these bonds. But if nobody's buying them, they could have some. somebody come in and buy those bonds at that interest rate. But who would that buyer be? Nathan, do you have any ideas? I believe the answer you're looking for is the Fed.

The central bank would go in and buy the bonds. Yes. And so you have monetization of the debt. You have the Federal Reserve going in, buying bonds from the country itself. printer buying debt. So it's just it's it contributes to inflation. It is the beginning of the end. The only I mean, you look at Japan. We just did a show on Japan. I just pull that up. 250% debt to GDP. That the Bank of Japan, I believe, owns around 46% of the outstanding debt. Yeah, it's crazy. So it ends up just being that the central bank,

of the country owns half of the debt of the country that's crazy it's q a infinity yeah and this is this is what's i guess being batted around um by the administration because they can't like inflation's still running hot but they're being forced to cut interest rates uh from the fed because everything sucks the economy's in the shitter and uh they can't get a handle on it like and and just to the point of the economy being in shitter. This post, people, Google Trends searches, the term help with mortgage. So people that are trying to figure out how to handle their mortgage payments because they're in dire straits. It's now higher than what it was in 2008 during the great financial crisis in the housing bubble. That is not looking good. When we're hearing that everything is all hunky dory,

You know, this is, there's a lot of red flags that are happening right now. Bank of Canada, we just cut again. We had gone on a tear cutting earlier this year and last year. And, or I guess last year, pretty much primarily. But we kind of leveled off, but we started cutting again because things are not looking so hot. you know, if you look at the housing prices index in Canada, we've seen 30% real house price decline since the 2022 peak. So people that were buying houses back then are shit out of luck right now

because, yeah, it's just unaffordable for everybody. But it's still, it's funny because nobody can afford a home. Nobody can afford their current mortgage. They've already cut interest rates a ton in the country. And house prices are still dropping because nobody can fucking afford to get a house. So people are stuck in shit interest rates right now from before. They can't afford the mortgage that they have. but they can't sell the house because nobody can afford to buy it and they would be taking a hit on the cost of the home.

It's not looking good. The other thing in more Canada is awful news. This one gets me. I saw a clip on it the other day. So Mark Carney, he just launched the Build Canada Homes, a new federal agency with $13 billion to scale up affordable housing. So they said they, we need $13 billion. We're going to build some affordable housing. Key word affordable.

It's affordable at that price. Affordable. Now, how many homes initially did they want to build? 4,000 modular homes. That's $3.25 million per dollars per home on those affordable homes. Now, they did say that they promise, which government promises are always great, to scale up to 45,000 homes. eventually, they put in brackets, unlikely, that would still be almost $300,000 per home if they hit

the 45,000 homes. There were already proposals from Trudeau years ago to do all these affordable housing projects and start building and building and shit has happened. Nothing has happened. And it's just going to be more of the same. Now, one last little, again, if you're in America, at least feel good about these little tidbits because, you know, things north of the border are a little, little rough. This is funny. New report, poverty and food insecurity in Canada jumps 40% since 2023. Post-pandemic, you were supposed to have people heading back to work, things getting back to normal. Everything's looking hunky door.

No, no. Everybody is screwed. housing, food, all of it's horrible. Now, the interesting thing, let's take a listen to this and see what they proposed. This report suggests one in four. Let me pull back. The amount of people living in poverty or facing food insecurity has jumped nearly 40% since 2023.

That finding is according to a new report from Food Bank's Canada. This report suggests one in four Canadians are struggling to put enough food on the table. with some going full days without eating. The charity's 2025 Poverty Report Card gives Canada a failing grade on both food insecurity and unemployment, but a slightly better grade for legislative progress. The report... Yeah, let's celebrate the legislative process. People are starving, but at least they're legislating well.

Okay, continue. Also says new government programs could help ease financial strain. Oh, God. I feel like Coit is doing a lot of the hard work there. Seriously. It's wild to me that the solution proposed is, while the government really screwed things up here, we better put in place some more government programs

to fix what's going on. It's wild to me. I'm going to throw in these last couple things, Nathan, and then let's do a little banter on the state of the world here. but a couple of things I didn't want to miss here. And so we're going to go to another part of the world, Vietnam. Just another example of the draconian kind of oversight that countries will try to get on your finances as, again, the wheels come off and they grasp at power here. Vietnam Central Bank just initiated closure of 86 million bank accounts starting on September 1st.

All the accounts closed lack the user biometric information, which gives the central bank next-gen financial surveillance ability. The official reason for closures to prevent fraud. This is a post from somebody in Reddit, I believe. bank is closing my account due to biometrics while I'm out of the country looking for advice please I used to work in vietnam left the country after my contract was over I'm waiting for my social insurance money that is owed to me I was also told by the bank representative when I opened the account to keep money in the bank once I leave so it won't be closed until I received the transfer that I was waiting for since I left this biometric law was put in place I tried to update it online but it sends you

to a one-time password on a Vietnamese phone number I don't have anymore I called the bank there of no help basically said my only option is to fly there in person. On top of it all, they said they would close my account this month if I don't fly and update the biometrics, while the transfer should happen next month from the government, which means they won't be able to transfer me my money I'm still owed. I will also lose all the money I have in the account as well once it's closed. So basically, drag net surveillance happening in Southeast Asia now, which is crazy. and to stay in the same general region in Asia here,

some governments, they know what's up. They're part of the problem, but they're also hedging their own bets. We've got China buying up massive amounts of gold, 10 times more than officially reported. This is crazy. why like that Shanghai futures exchange gold inventories

yeah they're being honest right yeah yeah well they were they were trying to they were trying to keep it secret but I mean cats out of a bag so I mean Nathan we've got

we've got dire straits for your average person we've got governments that are telling us everything's fine and but they're also going to fix it apparently those things aren't mutually exclusive. And then we've got draconian control measures, absolute surveillance, and governments that are taking actions to hedge themselves against what I think a lot of Bitcoiners see as inevitable.

The whole Lin-Alden, nothing stops this train. They need to print. Things are breaking. And you better have assets to hedge against that. Otherwise, you're screwed. So I don't know. What are your thoughts here, man? Asset. Asset, it's not plural. Singler. You just need Bitcoin. Get in there, guys. No, my thoughts are, what we're seeing here is the Emperor has no clothes. And it's something that people need to do. It's definitely a deep rabbit hole to go down. But none of the central banks control interest rates. They don't control interest rates. They say that they do. And they say that they do, and they do a lot of talking, but they don't actually control it. They just said the overnight rate. And you're right. The yield curve will not go in line necessarily with where they wanted to, despite that policy. And a key example. Don't take my word for it. Bank of Canada's cut what, 10 times now, 250 basis points down.

The interest rate on the five-year bond is trading at the same place it was in December of 2022. The five-year has not moved. It's been flat because anything particularly beyond the two years can be a combination of growth expectations, inflation expectations, and risk, whatever the risk profile is there. And so the reason that you see the third mandate, why this is so interesting is that literally in order to try and combat rising inflation, remember guys, bond inflation goes up. is the price going down is it's basically the equivalent of like Ben saying that oh man I can only get like you know 700,000 dollars for my house and maybe like oh don't worry I'll print a bunch of money and buy it at 800,000 so it's still priced at that level right it's your printing money so that prices don't drop the same thing happens on the yield curve or you're doing it to purposely raise the price right that's all they can do it's QE and they have they can print money and buy stuff to try and control the prices of it which includes the

yield of the bonds or it's just they can play with the overnight interest rate but the key feature here, whether it's the Bank of Canada, which by the way, do you have the Bank of Canada only has a single mandate? Fed's got three now. Technically Canada is only supposed to care about inflation. That's it. But again, they're totally separate from the politicians and don't care about anything else besides inflation. That's absolutely what's going on here.

The key thing is, and it goes back to that classic, why nothing stops this train, is that the coming debt destruction, the coming basically like financial problems and monetary problems, problems that we're going to have, no central bank can fix them. They can't fix it. They can't stop it. They can try to paper over it, but there's nothing that they can actually do. And that's why Bitcoin, just Bitcoin, you've got to be in that hard asset.

You've got to be out of that system in order to weather the storm. They're going to try and reset the debt again. That's coming, right? They're going to try and reset the debt, which historically means war is when they go and rebuild the monetary system. Hopefully this time, the new monetary system is the one that we're all. he were talking about. Yeah. And to that point, Russia just accused the U.S. of doing exactly that. They're basically saying, like, hey, guys, you know, the U.S. is trying to get around all of this by

exporting the inflation to the rest of the world. True. That's what they've been, you know, that's what the U.S. has been doing since the advent of, well, even before they went off the gold standard. It was people discovering what they were doing that led to the Nixon shock, right? It was France rolling up to New York with a ship being going to give us our gold. And then Nixon going, huh, yeah, we're not going to do that. So we're going to temporarily suspend the convertibility of the dollar to gold. Can I do that with credit card debt? Can I just like temporarily suspend the convertibility of my debt into dollars? Yeah, I'm going to temporarily suspend the convertibility of my paycheck into your payments.

Yeah. So, I mean, this is the thing that Russia accused them of, hey, that's the stable coin play. I don't disagree. I think that it's just another mechanism to, if they have locally reasonable, regulated stable coin issuers that have a set number of mandates that favor the U.S., then they can create these stable coins. They can get them into the hands of anyone anywhere on earth that wants U.S. dollar exposure that has a difficult time getting it or just wants the ease of a stable

coin without having to go through the traditional banking system. And now they've got a new set of demand. Yeah. I mean, they'll absolutely use that as a mechanism to kick the can down the road. I think it's going to work too. I think it's going to give them some time. And I think it's going to be detrimental to most other currencies on the planet, including the Canadian dollar.

I already don't use the Canadian dollar. I get paid in Bitcoin and my invoices are denominated in USD. I don't even The only time I see Canadian dollars is if I'm looking at a price at the store here But like my money sits in Bitcoin And my pricing mechanism is the least shitty fiat that I can find Because it's just currently tricky to price in sats

But that won't always be the case I'll be one of the crazy ones that Eventually starts pricing in sats But that's going to take some time I don't know I like a lot of the audience like that ben we all know that you don't go to the store that's lisa hey sometimes sometimes i may no i i uh i i do but i'm usually if i'm picking up uh my my protein shakes or my uh my rotissory chickens or something like that all my selfish buys so um all right well i mean

doom and gloom but hey we've we've got a way out uh so stack those stats people. It's important. Now, you said asset, not assets, meaning maybe not other cryptocurrencies. Off the top of the show, you alluded to a little something that's been going on with Manero. Now, obviously, Manero created it to have way better privacy. And I will say that, yes, inherently more private than Bitcoin, but not without a its issues. And there's been, there's been some issues. So I'm going to chat about those in a moment. We're going to examine what tradeoffs were made with Minero and kind of what happened here. And maybe kind of use it as a lesson as to why Bitcoin specifically. And there's also a couple

other interesting little things that I think you guys should check out this week. So on the other side of the break, we will get to it. But if you're new to the channel, of course, drop a lot. like. Thank you guys for being here. If you're returning, of course, welcome back. Everybody, make sure you're subscribed if you're not already. We'll see you guys in about a minute. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin on mobile, Aqua Wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full control of your Bitcoin with secure cell custody. Aqua also supports lightning and liquid network, making fast, fast, cheap Bitcoin payments and asset transfers easier than ever. Plus, it even supports stable coins giving you ultimate flexibility.

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All right, back in. Let's chat. What's see what's going on. Now, in things that I would file under, please make it make sense, Manaro did pump a good chunk. Actually, it's up even more, I think. As of right now, nonetheless, the price went up a fair amount in spite of this massive reorg that just happened.

Now, what is a reorg? I mean, let's chat a little bit about it. Basically, you've got, you know, on the Bitcoin blockchain, you'd have your transactions ordered in blocks one after another. X number of transactions all went throughout the same. time and then based on the state of where everything is at that time you build new blocks of transactions and where funds moved in the next 10 minutes and so you've got this kind of order of what has happened and what transactions are officially added to the blockchain. A reorg would be taking the order of what has happened and completely changing that based on a

a different set of data, that everything is still valid, but just happened differently. Maybe certain transactions happened earlier. Maybe some transactions have been omitted. Maybe different transactions got through instead. And this is happening on Manero right now more than once because there is a 51% attack. There is a minor that has obtained, a singular entity has obtained more than 51% of the hash power on the network. So just a quick little read here. Security Britch was committed by the team behind Kubik, a layer one AI-focused blockchain and mining pool that amassed 51% hash rate on Monero

and committed a six-blog-block reorg last month. The reorg started at Block. I'm not going to read all that anyways. And finished roughly 43 minutes later, according to sources who run Monero nodes and shared to their command line consoles. Minero's latest security breach was also confirmed by cryptocurrency protocol researcher Rucknium on GitHub. Surprisingly, again, Minero went up, traded relatively flat while it was happening, and then eight hours later was up 7.4%. It's up even, I think, I'm not mistaken, it's it was up.

That may be down now. Anyways, it doesn't really matter. Now, why is Monero susceptible to this? And why might one not see as much of a risk in that and something like Bitcoin? And so I think the thing that we need to look at is one of the key promises of Bitcoin is the degree of certainty you have that you're trying to. transaction won't be reversed. How final is your transaction? And so in Bitcoin, there's a common set of guidance of let your, you know, after six

confirmations or about an hour, then you can consider your transaction is like absolutely confirmed. It is very unlikely that there would be a six block reorg. A single block sometimes, yeah, there's there's a stale block where two, people mine basically at the same time and then you kind of have to wait to see which block is going to be the valid one and then continue on from there. But with something like this where you can have an 18 block reorg, you need to have more certainty. You've got to wait longer. So this is a website called How ManyConfs.com, C-O-N-F-S dot com. And it shows the difference between the certainty

of finality in a Bitcoin transaction versus all these other. proof of work chains. So Bitcoin up top, six confirmations over this last couple of weeks would have taken in around 55 minutes. On average, that's going to be 60 minutes, right? 10, 10 blocks. Sorry, 10 minute blocks. When you start going down the line, you see Manero down here. It is, you know, it's still only fifth in the list. And you think, okay, not bad. But in order to have the same degree of certainty that your, your transaction will not be reversed, and this may even be out the window with the 51% now, 11 days and 10 hours. So it is 301 times slower than Bitcoin when it comes to transactional finality. And again, with the 51% attack ongoing, really you kind

of have no idea right now what can be reorged and what can't. 18 block reorgue, that's that's huge. So why is Monero particularly susceptible to this? I mean, these other chains up top here are also susceptible to this. We haven't seen large scale examples of it, but they're more susceptible than Bitcoin because of the degree of hash rate. How many people are mining it? How dispersed is the mining?

And I'm not saying that Bitcoin mining is, to a degree centralized. There's still problems there that are being worked on, and I hope to see move in a better direction. At one point, Bitcoin did have a single miner that did have over 51%. Way back in the day, it was called ghash.io. But what ended up happening is individual miners that were part of that pool, packed up and left and went to different pools,

because these pools are comprised of a lot of, individual miners that are choosing which pool they go with. So I expect you would see the same type of thing. If multiple pools colluded together to do something shady, people would move away from them. Nonetheless, with 51% attack happening, you have uncertainty in and around Monero. And Minero, Bitcoin's mining is industrialized. it is at a very, very large scale. The amount of energy that goes into Bitcoin mining is nothing to scoff at.

And it's around the world. Yes, a large portion in the U.S., but also a large portion in China. And the U.S. and China are rivals. And while people may look and say, oh, that's too much hash power in China or, oh, that's too much hash power in the U.S. If it was just one of them, yeah, but when it's both of them simultaneously that, kind of like sweet let's let's get more people that hate each other mining bitcoin because they're never going to agree on on doing shady things together in tandem um so minaro actually moved away from asics uh which is application specific integrated circuits meaning that they do one thing

and so bitcoin is asic mined you buy a bitcoin miner it can do one thing it can mine Manero, when they started seeing ASIC mining, they actually hard forked back in 2019 to become ASIC resistant, meaning that they wanted people being able to mine with, what, like, you know, GPUs or, you know, graphics cards, that kind of thing, keeping it more peer-to-peer, more accessible to the average person. But what this is done is also made a relatively low bar for people to attack it as minors. And so on one hand, there's the lower hash rate, which makes it more difficult to be certain of if your transaction can be reversed. But also just the precedent set by quasi-regular hard forks, which is a non-backwards compatible change to the protocol. This was 2019.

Okay, so that's a while ago. That's six years ago. But there was a hard fork in 2022, so three years ago as well. And so there's also this ever-shifting kind of foundational change that you can't quite be certain exactly what's going to happen there. The interesting thing that I found is some people were floating around the idea. that they may need to centralize in order to prevent this, in order to prevent this 51% attack. And I'm, I don't know. It's just bad news bears, man.

I'm kind of at a loss. But you did, Nathan, you shared in the background this tweet from Francis Puglia. And I think this is a pretty good indication. and a pretty good take. And this is from June of 2023. But he said the point that Minero users often don't get, if you convert Minero to Bitcoin, your privacy is only as good as your Bitcoin OPSEC.

To truly be private, Minero users must thus remain in a circular economy. To have a circular economy, you need holders. To have holders, you must outperform all other currencies. So there's kind of this loop that needs to be achieved of, of, you know, people need to find value in the money. And if you need to remain private, you need to be using that money in a circular way. And one of those things has not been met in that not as many people are finding value in the money, thus accepting it. You can find places to spend Manero, but it's going to be trickier. Bitcoin has not been difficult to live on for me at all, especially now.

So, yeah, I mean, he has a valid point. Anyways, I've been rambling for a little bit. Nathan, your thoughts here. I sent you another link there in the chat, check it out. I was just going to add that essentially, like, this reminds me even what I would say that was saying earlier in the show, that we have probably very smart, very well-intentioned developers trying to work on privacy and building on Manero. And that's not the way to go.

That ultimately, it's not for the reasons that Francis stated. And of course, you can only have, you go back to Jeff Booth's finding signal a noisy world. You have decentralization, security, or scalability. Pick two, right? It does not have the security of the hash rate behind it. It leaves it vulnerable, right? And if they have to centralize it, then it's a essential throat that they can choke. Yes, you said that Manero was up, but I pulled up the chart and it looked like it wasn't.

So I just thought I'd share that with you there. That's clarification. Yeah, this is the lifetime Minero versus Bitcoin chart. And so, yes, indeed. over time, as with pretty much every other altcoin, there's a gradual decay of value versus Bitcoin as people gravitate towards the soundest money. And I mean, there you have it. So does Minero have privacy benefits? Yes. Does it work well as a long-term store value? Absolutely not. And so at the end of the day, I like to focus on what tools can I use to make Bitcoin

more private so that I'm not swapping into and out of currencies depending on whether I'm saving or spending. And yeah, I'm using the tools at hand. Agreed. Unfortunately, but it is like that by that's very nature to, privacy is not a characteristic of money. It's something that we should all have. And it should be the default setting, is something that we want through different tools and mechanisms to get there. But store of value very much is a characteristic of a good money, right? And that one needs to be met. You can make an argument that's maybe part of medium of exchange, but realistically,

if there's no store of value, it won't function as a money, not in the long term, which is exactly what we're seeing with fiat, right? We had the tradeoff in terms of transactions beat from gold, which makes sense. But the winner is going to be the thing that does both. And Monero is just not a store of value. And it never will be because it's not decentralized or secure enough. Yeah, yeah, I'd echo that. Now, in the vein of privacy, we were talking last week about the, last week I think, about the Android crackdown where they are, basically Android is taking a page, unfortunately, from Apple's books.

And they're now requiring new rules for all app developers. They have to submit personal information to Google. And this is even for apps outside of the Google Play App Store. So the big draw of Android, in my opinion, has been you can, if you want to, put anything you want on your Android phone, right? You can side load an app. You can do whatever you want. And that's fantastic.

Not going to be the case anymore. And that is gradually rolling out over time. And there's going to be requirements on the part of literally anybody. who wants to have an app that works on a regular Google-o-fied phone. And so how do you go about de-googling? Well, luckily, I put out a video at the beginning of the week on how to install Graphene OS. And I do think it is an important thing to look at

when it comes to trying to remain digitally self-sovereign and private. You know, I got to play around with it. Admittedly, I'm relatively new to utilizing graphene. But the idea that you can have full control over what you put on your phone to me is very, very important. In fact, it's the reason I switched to Android in the first place. I used to be on iPhone for a long time. And it was actually when they, for a period of time, banned Bitcoin wallets from iOS that I jumped over to Android. And that was years ago, and I never went back.

I mean, while I use other Apple items, you know, like a laptop, stuff like that, it was the telling me what to do with my own device that really bothered me, that sent me somewhere else. And now I'm seeing that from Google. And I'm saying, okay, well, what are my options? And if the same thing started happening with general purpose computing hardware like my laptop, then of course, I'm looking at other things. I do have a Linux machine here. I don't use it as often because I do a lot of multimedia. But should I not be able to load a certain Bitcoin wallet or something like that?

Yeah, you better believe I'm going to be switching. So long and the short of it, go check out the tutorial, play around, graphene. ironically you do have to have a Google pixel phone in order to install it. Samsung has locked down theirs so that you just can't even install it on them. But nonetheless, you can free yourself of Google, ironically, with a Google product. Any thoughts on this? No, no, I think it's funny because we always assume that these Titans are going to be the ones in control for a long time. But just remember, like, no one really saw Blockbuster getting taken out by Netflix.

There will be churn in the market. And I think this probably is a mistake on Android's part, on Google's part. And so in the same way that you went from Apple to Android, they're very well probably within our lifetime. We'll see somebody else, a new entrance to the market, somebody else where there's demand for these sort of options or something else I hadn't even thought of, that they won't be in charge forever.

It's not forever. We'll probably have a, if customers are unhappy, and I would be unhappy with that. New companies went to the space. Yeah, 100%. Now, one last thing I wanted to touch on, and then I got a jet here pretty quick, But interesting update for Wallet of Satoshi.

Now, this is, it rolled out to my phone. I do have access to the beta. You can apply to be in the beta. But this seemed like it was a regular update to me. Now, Nathan, you don't have the update. Correct. I do, but I'd encourage everybody. And let me know in the comments if you do have access to it.

But Wallet of Satoshi on my end appears to have rolled out self-custody mode. I may be mistaken there. But if I am, then it must be. right around the corner because, yeah, I got an update and the update said, hey, self-custody mode is on this one. So if it's not this update, it looks like it's probably the next one that everybody's getting it. So what does this mean? Wallet of Satoshi, obviously, you know, super easy lightning wallet, but the big tradeoff was it's custodial. You know, they hold your funds and, you know, technically speaking, yes, they could rugpole you. But they do have.

they are rolling out a self-custody mode. And what this does is swaps you over to a different wallet and you have a regular backup and everything, and you are in control of your funds. Now, I say that there's some nuance here. There's some developers that have chimed in. Matt Corallo says, oh, and wallet of Satoshi's self-custy mode is absolutely not self-custody.

It's fully trusting a third-party multi-sig with your funds, though you can in theory unilaterally exit at substantial cost. I'm going to quickly kind of mention this. I want to deep dive too much. But what is the trade-off? The back end of self-custody in wallet of Stoci uses LightSpark. Light Spark is a layer to protocol that uses something called state chains. What are state chains?

That's a complicated answer. But the long and the short of it is you can own portions of a UTXO or a chunk of Bitcoin. and there's a transaction, the transactions take place are actually encrypted key material and you own parts of private keys and it's very, very complex. But the net effect is that you don't need to have lightning channels or liquidity or anything like that. But you can link into lightning channels. So a state chain can have a lightning channel atop it.

So you can, even though you're using state chains and the state chains and the state chain, the Spark protocol, you can transact with somebody on a Lightning wallet. So it all lends itself to this blending of all these Layer 2 protocols that all interact. You can be on a wallet that holds liquid or Lightning or eCash or uses a fetament or ARC or now state chains and you can just send freely between them and the wallet does the work for you. So is this fully, fully self-custodial? You can argue against that. Can you unilaterally exit, meaning nobody's permission?

Yes, though there may be costs associated with that on chain. So it would have to be for a decent amount. Is this better than fully custodial? Also, yes. So I'm super happy to see changes like this. I think, yes, it's worth noting the nuance in and around things like this, but the more choices, the better. And you as an individual, depending on what you're using a particular wallet for, can look at it and say, you know, what's the chances that a whole bunch of different entities around the globe are going to collude to rug pull my $100. Am I super worried?

Am I going to put my life savings in there? Probably not. but you can find balance with the force as you investigate. Nathan, any quick thoughts here? No, absolutely. I mean, I think there was a place in a particular for small amounts. Like, I use liquid and aqua wallet and stuff all the time, the bowl app as well. I've used custodial lightning because it's just super easy and convenient, especially when

I was having problems with just, you know, transactions not making its way through. It's all you're taking on certain amount of risk. And honestly, for like 100 sats, I'm totally fine using that sort of stuff. And as we scale up, then it's going more and more to a hardened security setup to a nice cold storage vault. Yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of the wallets that make you more and more self-sovereign as your balance grows. I like that trajectory. There's automation. I'm looking at Blitz wallet. I like what they're doing. I think you start e-cash. You graduate to Liquid, and then you graduate to your own self-custodial Lightning Channel is kind of a cool progression, and you don't really

have to do anything in the background. It just kind of does it for you. So, Anyways, cool ideas coming out of wallet developers everywhere. Investigate, play, decide what works best for you. But with that, we got a wrap. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Again, if you're new to the channel, welcome. If you're returning, thank you guys for coming back. Drop a like if you enjoyed the conversation.

And if you haven't already, subscribe, of course. I am Ben. This was Nathan. And this was your weekly session. We'll see you guys for the next one. Hey, you. Yes, you watching the Bitcoin price movements and the latest exciting news. It's awesome to stay informed, but the real power of Bitcoin comes from taking control. Don't just watch, take action.

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