BTC Sessions - The Brutal Truth about Government Bitcoin Adoption No One Wants to Hear

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Mentor Sessions Ep. 044: Bitcoin Freedom, Government Adoption Risks & IMF Criticism | My First Bitcoin Founder John DennehyWhat if government Bitcoin adoption isn't the victory everyone celebrates... but the greatest threat to true Bitcoin freedom? In this eye-opening interview on BTC Sessions, John Dennehy — founder of My First Bitcoin — drops the uncomfortable realities: governments and corporations could co-opt Bitcoin, turning it into just another controlled asset while stripping away self-custody, sovereignty, and individual power. He exposes the IMF's exploitative grip on nations, warns that politicians are "fair-weather friends" to Bitcoin, and shares why grassroots education and real-world usage are the only path to genuine liberation. From his own arrests and jail-cell epiphany ("They can't take this from me") to brutal lessons from El Salvador's experiment, John reveals why Bitcoin isn't just "number go up" — it's the tool to build a freer world, starting with self-custody and rejecting centralized control. If you're serious about Bitcoin as freedom money, this is the conversation you can't afford to miss.Key topics: Bitcoin freedom, government Bitcoin adoption, self-custody, Bitcoin education, IMF criticism, My First Bitcoin.Support My First BitcoinWebsite: https://myfirstbitcoin.orgX: @MyFirstBitcoin_Chapters:00:00 Teaser & Intro00:01:45 Government Adoption: Threat or Victory?00:03:09 Education + Usage for True Freedom00:06:46 Money = Power: Bitcoin's Unique Freedom00:08:01 Predictability & Long-Term Thinking00:11:08 Self-Custody vs Treasury Companies00:13:14 Global Adoption & Hurdles00:17:09 Politicians as Fair-Weather Friends00:22:27 The Cliff Analogy & Urgency00:25:08 Personal Actions & Leading by Example00:26:57 Regions Primed for Bitcoin00:30:36 John's Seizures & Bitcoin Journey00:36:48 IMF Exposed: Sovereignty Killer00:44:54 Alternatives & Preventative Solutions00:51:13 El Salvador Lessons00:58:25 Governments: Get Out of the Way01:01:13 Bitcoin Transforms Mindsets01:04:27 Building New Models01:10:59 Jail Liberation & Bitcoin Power01:16:52 Help My First Bitcoin & Get Involved About John Dennehy:X: https://x.com/jdennehy_writesPrevious Episode:Exposing the Global Elite's Bitcoin Psyop | Dr. Jack Kruse & Simon Dixon: https://youtu.be/4Rzv9meq3Yg💰 Supported by @BowValleyCU — Tired of big banks? Join Bow Valley Credit Union, run by freedom and sound money advocates, as Canada's only traditional institution directly integrating Bitcoin for seamless, no-hassle transfers, no rehypothecation, self-custody withdrawals, insurance, auditability, and ideal corporate balance sheet integration. If you or your business is in Alberta, switch today! 👉https://qrco.de/bgGaIQ⚡ POWERED by Abundant Mines: Fully managed Bitcoin mining. Learn more at abundantmines.com/boomers💡BOOK Private Sessions with Nathan, Gary, or Ben at Bitcoin Mentor: Master self-custody, hardware, multisig, Lightning, privacy, and more. 👉 Visit bitcoinmentor.io Follow Us on X:• BTC Sessions: @BTCsessions• Nathan: @theBTCmentor• Gary: @GaryLeeNYC#Bitcoin #BitcoinFreedom #GovernmentBitcoinAdoption #SelfCustody #BitcoinEducation #IMFCriticism #MyFirstBitcoin #BitcoinPodcast #BTC #BitcoinNews #IMF

I would be very, very worried about the future of Bitcoin if it was only governments and corporations. On a long enough timeline, every single government, every single politician will disappoint you. We need to destroy the IMF. The IMF is the major mechanism that keeps the rich, rich, and the poor poor. We traded our sovereignty for money. You know, the IMF doesn't care about people die in. Once I sat in a jail cell and I realized my conviction did not change at all, I realized that they didn't actually have any power over me.

It was so liberating and so free. And I think Bitcoin does that in its own way. They can't take this. They can't take this warm power for me. Today, we're sitting down with John Denahe, the founder of my first Bitcoin, the guy who's taken Bitcoin education global with over 70 projects in 40 plus countries. A passionate activist, John doesn't hold back. In this episode, John reveals the dark truth about the IMF.

Not just influence, but really control over the end. And the IMF is the poster child for that. My government adoption of Bitcoin might actually be the biggest threat to its future. They're fair weather friends to Bitcoin. And the brutal lessons from El Salvador's Bitcoin experiment, what went right and wrong. Almost all of the progress here in El Salvador around Bitcoin adoption has come from grassroots initiatives. Almost none of it has come from the government. Plus, you'll be surprised to learn that the most liberating moment of John's life was sitting in a jail cell.

That's why it sounds so strange to say that getting arrested was a good experience. John, thank you so much for joining us. This is really a pleasure. We love all the work you're doing at My First Bitcoin. We review of financial literacy and that Bitcoin is some of the most, if not the most empowering tools for the individual for freedom. Are you concerned that government involvement with things like Strategic Bitcoin Reserve and the Bitcoin for America Act allowing tax payments in Bitcoin? Is that, extend the evil empire or does it not even matter from an individual's perspective, kind of the money for enemies thing?

Right. I think about this a lot and it's a great question. And I think the money for enemies is super relevant here. I would be very, very worried about the future of Bitcoin. If it was only governments and corporations, the fact that that is happening, is okay so long as there's strong grassroots initiatives, so long as there is work going on that is outside the influence of governments and corporations and traditional power brokers. So it would be something that I'd be very worried about if there wasn't alternatives to that

as well within the Bitcoin space. Okay. What do you see as the most important things we need to do to spread Bitcoin, not just as a means for number go up and accumulating wealth within the existing system, but to break out of that system so it can be true freedom money. Yeah. So I think there's two things. One is education. One is just learning about what Bitcoin is and learning the power that it could give the individual. And the second is using it because, and they go hand in hand often. So let me give you an example of something that we've done with meetups down here.

We have a meetup at a place that accepts Bitcoin, and we may give, depending on who sponsors the meetup, whatever. We may give a bonus. A lot of meetups will give like, you know, a welcome drink when you come in. What we did instead was we gave people SATs when they came in that is the equivalent that they could use to buy that drink, right? And we work with the establishment, so there's a discount if you pay with Bitcoin. So we create the right incentives, we give them the tools, and we walk them through spending their first sets, if it is people that have never used Bitcoin before.

And there's, you know, people get it. You could talk to them. You could say, like, Bitcoin is great for X, Y, and Z. And they'll nod their head, and they'll understand much of it. But when they actually use it, when they download the wallet and they make that first transaction, then something else clicks for them. And then that becomes an avenue to explain it further because then you could point out, because it automatically clicks when they make that like, oh, that was easier than I thought, right? This wasn't a super complex thing.

Like, I can do this. And then you're like, right. And did you notice how you didn't have to give your name? Did you notice how you didn't need anyone's permission to do this? Well, it would be the same if you wanted to, if you wanted to send that value to Venezuela or Nicaragua. or anywhere where people are pretty aware that it's tough to send value to much of the world. And it's not with Bitcoin. And the same thing that you just did, the same way that you and I just made this transaction,

you could do it with anyone anywhere. And that's very special and that's very liberating. And so I think the two go hand in hand, education and actually using Bitcoin. Okay. Well, I ask these questions because I think it's a really important point. the show a lot and a lot of our best episodes or number go up. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you can find more wealth for your friends, your family, yourself, it's wonderful, not poo-pooing that at all. But, you know, there are people out there who could give you great stock tips, who could,

a lot smarter than I am, who could show you the best stocks to invest in or the best currency trades to do. And you could make money in the existing Fiat system faster than you could in Bitcoin with the right deals. So what is it? What's so special that Bitcoin that we have to have a show about this that sets it apart from everything else of just, well, number go up. And I know you've talked before about the importance of freedom, the importance of meaning, the importance of being able to be free not just in your body, but in your thoughts.

You talked about from the very first day you were arrested, being in jail, allowed you to think, gosh, this is the best, the worst they could do to me. they still haven't killed my resolve. I still have my freedom. And it's, it's kind of like one of those, well, you've taken your best shot. I'm still here. Now I'm not scared anymore. I don't really know how to want to word that question to you, but what is it about Bitcoin that you believe can help build a freer world for people that they can't find anywhere else? Yeah. So money and power synonymous, right? If you control somebody's money, you control their power. And with Bitcoin, you control your money, therefore you control your power. And that is almost always the lowest

hang in proof when somebody wants to control your actions. Someone wants to control your life is money, right? It's like in Canada, we saw it with the trucker protest. People that donated to it, they got, they had their bank accounts frozen, right? This happens all the time, all over the world. And it's not, it, it's not just that they, that it has happened, that it will continue to happen. It's that we all know that it can happen. Right. So actually, I think most of it is inside of our own minds, right? We, we feel less free because we know that somebody has this control over our money. And if they control their money, they control everything about us. Right. If you have no money, then it's very difficult to do everything else.

So if you want to be free, you have to take that away from everyone else but yourself. You have to be in control of that. And once you're in control of that, then I think it creates a series of other questions that that you ask yourself. Because once you control your money, once you control your power, you have more influence. over your own future, right? Because when somebody else is in charge of the money, and this works on two levels with Bitcoin, one is that it's predictable,

which I know probably sounds weird for people who are on the outside of Bitcoin, and that Bitcoin is predictable. But it is, right? It's we know exactly how many Bitcoins exist today. We know how many are going to exist in one year and five years and 10 years. That doesn't change. There isn't a small group of people that don't know you and don't care about you that might change the policy.

at any moment. And that's the world that we come from. And in that world, it's very hard to look into the future because, again, money is a foundational thing. So if you don't know how much the inflation is going to be, if you don't know how the policies are going to change,

it doesn't just affect or discourage you from starting a business and start in these financial ventures, but it discourages you from starting a family, money touches everything, right? It discourages you from thinking into the future. It discourages you from, it incentivizes you to get what you can today and to discount the future a lot more than you have to with Bitcoin. So everything becomes temporary. Everything becomes pleading. And that comes down to even just your neighbor, right? Just how you view the people that you

cross in your lives. You live in an apartment building and the person next to you that you walk by in the morning, you don't care about them in a fiat world, right? You walk right by them. You, it's, they're going to move on, you're going to move on. Who cares? In a Bitcoin world, it flips everything. And when we control our money, we control our power, when we control our power and we could look further into the future, it is. it encourages us to build that business because we have this baseline that we could predict into the future. It encourages us to start that family. But it also affects these everyday interactions.

That neighbor that's next to you, maybe you say hi to them. Maybe you're friendlier with them because you're thinking further into the future. And it's like when you're thinking further into the future, you know what? Years from now, a friendship. with this person may be beneficial because this is permanent, right? This isn't this bleed in relationship. So I think Bitcoin triggers a mental shift, which just changes how you view your place in the world. Nathan, I want to give you a chance to jump in if you wanted to here.

Yeah, there's just one thing that kind of came top of mind even talking about the way that Bitcoin shifts are mental view. Like all that only comes to fruition if you actually take self-custody and you use Bitcoin. Like you must have it in self-custody. you must use it as money to get the benefits beyond just the protection of your purchasing power. And I'm curious what your current view is of the corporate companies, the treasury companies, that sort of thing. And the reason I bring it up is that for me, and I'm not sure if you're share the sentiment, 2025, we're coming up to the end of the year here, has felt very disappointing in terms of adoption. And one of the things that I suspect may have happened, I can't necessarily prove it, but like,

even if you go on chain, fees are unbelievably cheap right now. I don't really know a lot of people that came in in 2025. And I suspect that many of the new entrance of this year may have been directed to these treasury companies, to these other products, which completely removes the benefits that you were just talking about. I'm just curious your thoughts there, John. Yeah, yeah. People go for shiny things, right, especially at first. I think that the, I share that disappointment. But I share that disappointment today.

I continue to be extremely optimistic about tomorrow because I think a lot of people, it's the same thing. The number go up, right? Like many, many people enter Bitcoin for the gains, for the number go up. And it's once they're inside that they realize that there's so much more to it. So I think if we could, if we could bring more people in, even in ways that are less than ideal, I'm optimistic that on a long enough timeline, then they shift towards things that are more ideal.

And a lot of my philosophy actually comes down to having faith in humanity, right, having faith that people figure it out if you open the door, they'll walk through it because you can't walk through it for them, right? But you can't open the door for them. And I think that Bitcoin adoption is, good, period, however it happens. There are, as you said, there are ways that people could be exposed to the price of Bitcoin without getting these freedom benefits.

But that's also why I think education is so important, right? If people don't realize that there's more to it, then there is a worry that they just stay at the treasury companies. And actually all Bitcoin gets absorbed into. these institutions, governments, and we individuals miss out on these, what I think are the bigger benefits, right? Because protecting your purchasing power is huge, right? Like, I don't mean to diminish that.

But freedom doesn't come from how many things you could buy. Freedom comes from the fact that nobody could tell you, what to buy. It's the ability to say no, right? That's where it really starts to shine. I'm curious then talking about education, because of course my first Bitcoin, gone international now as well too.

Boots on the ground currently, if you're looking maybe at Latin America or other places in the world, what is kind of the state of adoption right now? And I'm curious being that you're creating all this educational content, you're running the diploma program. Are there any hurdles from an educational standpoint

that you didn't expect to see that we ran into or any surprises kind of came up along the way? Yeah, so I think adoption is, you know, it's not consistent. It's not just a steady line that goes up in different parts of the world at different times. It's going up or down at different paces and ratios. But on the whole, one thing that has been really inspiring for me to see is how many Bitcoin education projects are springing up around the world.

So my first Bitcoin, you mentioned that we're going. fully international. And one of the things that we do is we work with Bitcoin educators and Bitcoin education projects around the world. And currently we work with 70 plus projects in 40 plus countries. And they're all growing. All of them are growing. And this is, you know, Africa, Latin America, Asia, North America. It's all over. Right. It's happening all over. So I'm bullish on the whole. there's always going to be exceptions, countries that are shooting up and countries that are stagnating. But on the whole, I think it's trended in the right direction. And then the second part of your question, which was about unforeseen obstacles.

Yeah, any hurdles that we didn't expect that would be like, oh, I didn't realize this would be hard for people to get around or understand or they'd be very resistant to. Yeah. Yeah. So many. Here I'm thinking, it's like, no, no, it's been easy the whole way. It's like, okay, where on the list of 100 things do I start? Well, I think a lot of this is contextual. So I could maybe give a couple of examples from El Salvador. Early on, so in 2021, one issue that we dealt with was many people, perhaps even a majority of Salvadorians, in 2021, had a strong association with the government and Bitcoin, which I know is like kind of the

converse of much of the world. No, just quick side note, I recently had issues with family members because all they see right now is Trump and Bitcoin. I can't even talk to them. Well, it's probably, so I think what happened in Nelson Alveter in 2021, it's probably happening in the U.S. right now. And that was a challenge because people had opinions about Bitcoin before they knew anything about it based on their opinion on a government or a politician. And, you know, so that was something

that we had to peel back before we could even get to the starting line. That has, it was to the point, and I wonder if this is true in the U.S. It was to the point that many people here in El Salvador thought that the president, Bukeli, was the creator of Bitcoin. Wow. You're Kelly Satoshi now. That's what? There is my. There is my. There's my video title. I don't know. I wonder if there are people in the U.S. But I guess it's different because in the U.S.

by the time Trump became president, I think a lot more people had heard of Bitcoin. You're in El Salvador before they passed the law in 2021. Outside of Bitcoin Beach, which is, you know, it was a village of 2,000 people. Almost no one had heard of Bitcoin. So the first time they heard of it, they have this strong association with the president.

So that might have helped the U.S. a little bit more. I think there's probably less people that think Trump is Satoshi, but maybe there are so. I hear AI created was the new one I got. It's like, oh, it's created by AI. It's like, nope, I think we're a little late to that, but I'm glad you're paying attention to a video. All right.

Yeah, yeah. But on a positive note, that is much, much less true. there's very few people at this point in El Salvador that, and maybe zero, that think that Foukele was greater Bitcoin or that, you know, I think people's opinion of the government here and their opinion of Bitcoin with time have become independent of each other, which is a positive thing because Bitcoin is so much bigger than any government than any politician. And, you know, on a long enough timeline, every single government, every single government, every single politician will disappoint you and they will, you know, they won't be, they'll, they're fair

weather friends to Bitcoin. Yep. Agreed. Right. They're always politicians. Please let me go on believing that Ron Paul is the one good one. Oh, sorry. Yeah, with the exception of Ron Paul. I mean, he may disappoint. I know. I get it. Just let me have my one. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's always, there's always, and I don't know if there's always, but there's often an exception to the rule. But I wonder, I wonder what would happen to Ron Paul had he been elected president. That's good question. The higher you rise, the more susceptible you are to corruption. And I, I, you know, that old phrase power corrupts, absolute power, absolutely corrupts.

I actually, I don't know if anybody's immune. from that. I think people are immune to it to a point. But at a certain level, then I think there are no exceptions to that. So Ron Paul, as a as a congressperson, yes, as a president, I don't know. We never got to find out. Yeah, it's a fair point. Yeah, I know you've said before to trying to change the system from within the system, you will ultimately get hijacked by the system to some degree or another. Attention all freedom-loving Alberta Bitcoiners. Tired of the big six banks freezing funds, blocking transactions, or slamming your account shut without warning or explanation, just for dipping into Bitcoin? Remember the Freedom Convoy debanking nightmare?

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One of the things that you said, speaking of Bitcoin adoption, is you've talked about how in our current fiat world, you've used the analogy of we are in a speeding car heading towards a cliff. And while we are speeding towards this cliff, we are trying to build wings. And what you meant by that wasn't correct me if I'm wrong is that it's not enough to just adopt Bitcoin and you just sit back long enough. Things will resolve and everything will turn out fine at a long enough timeline. You believe, again, correct me if I'm wrong, that there is an urgency to this. Why is there an urgency to act proactively?

Yeah. So, yes, that's correct. Right. I'm super optimistic about the future with Bitcoin, but if we don't realize Bitcoin's potential, then I'm super pessimistic about the future. And that analogy, without Bitcoin, we crash into the rocks below. With Bitcoin, we could fly into the unknown. And that urgency comes from the fact that I think Bitcoin, of anything, has sped up the timeline, has sped up like the cliff edge, right? Because we, Bitcoin has exposed the system. And there's a, I'm forgetting the exact quote, but it's, you know, everything is,

the system works through fraud and force. And once you expose the fraud, then it relies more heavily on the force. It's like a wounded animal. Yeah. And I think Bitcoin is exposing the fraud. So the force is, you know, central bank digital currencies. Like I actually wonder if we would be talking about central bank digital currencies if Bitcoin never was invented. I don't think we would.

Right. So it's like it's kind of a race. Bitcoin has kicked off this race, which was always happening. The world was always heading towards this cliff. Human civilization was always headed towards this cliff, but it got closer with Bitcoin. And it became more urgent with the creation of Bitcoin. Okay. And you've talked about steps that we need to take. Obviously, you said education, and that sounds great. Are there affirmative things each of us should be doing as Bitcoin

or something? Should we each be running our own node? You know, obviously self-custody is a big thing. Are there tangible things that we can do, aside from the wonderful thing that you do in educating others? Yeah. You know, for for me personally, I think that the most you could do is, is to educate others, but also educate yourself, right? It's almost like when you're on an airplane and you're with a child, you put your own seatbelt on first, or you take the oxygen mask first and then you give it to the child because you have to help yourself before you could help others, right? If you drown, you're not going to save anybody else from drowning. So it's important that we take charge of our own life and our own future, our own destiny.

And there's so many different ways that each individual could do that. And the way each individual does that will be different. But the point is that the individual must control their own future to find their own destiny, not be passive observers in their own life, in their own future. And I think it's so important to lead by example, right? Because if you're saying like, oh, you know, you got to be, you got to be your own boss and you got to do this and that and you're not in your own life.

Then it rings hollow and no one will listen to you. And in fact, if you do it yourself, you don't really have to speak that loudly about it, right? Yeah. People will just follow that. So take care of yourself first. Realize that we create revolution by living it and then create the future that you want.

And I think the others, others around you. Great, great an example for them to follow. Yeah, I just want to, so I do want to talk more about your experience in El Salvador, the good, the bad, kind of what we've learned from the ongoing experiment there.

And I definitely want to talk about your history with the IMF because that's just way too much fun. But before I do, I'm kind of curious, particularly now that my first Bitcoin's gone international, I'm wondering, in your view, looking out at the globe as a whole, which areas do you think are most primed for Bitcoin adoption?

And similarly, where do you think of the world? needs it the most right now. They might be the same place. They might be two different ones. I think it is the same place. Because there's, you know, earlier, earlier we spoke about many people come into Bitcoin for a number go up and then they stay for freedom go up.

That is somewhat of, you know, somewhat of a privileged perspective. that's the environment that brought me to Bitcoin where I didn't really need it. I wanted it. In fact, I kind of needed it, but I'm an edge case because I was an activist where governments had already seized my assets. But for the most part, that's true in certain parts of the world and not in others. I think people will realize the full potential of Bitcoin. most people will realize the full potential of Bitcoin when they need to, not when they want to. So it's been we work with, it's funny.

So I was just on a call before with some of the education projects that we work with, including one from Indonesia, one from Kenya, Nigeria. And those three countries all have pretty restrictive policies around finance. Anson around Bitcoin and other things. And they are, they are among the fastest growing Bitcoin education projects in the world. They are, they are getting so much traction because it's, it's easier. You don't have to convince people like, hey, imagine if the government, like, the government has the potential to seize your assets and therefore controlled your behavior and how you think. You don't have to imagine it. Right. Like it's much more present in certain parts of the world.

And I think that, you know, and they're not, they're not buying ETFs there. Right. If you're in, if you're in Nigeria, you're not buying an ETF. If you have Bitcoin, like, yeah, maybe you're just trying to protect your purchase and power, but you might actually need it there, right? So I'm helpful for the parts of the world with, without a lot of freedom that Bitcoin could be a beacon for those places. And education is easier, right?

Because there's a lot less to explain. Because I think what you need in order to understand Bitcoin, first you have to recognize that there is a problem in the status quo. And you don't have to do a lot of work to convince people there's a problem with the status quo, specifically with finances, but perhaps with the status quo. everything in certain parts of the world. And so that in a place like the U.S., and this is, I think, becoming less true with time, you have to do some work to get past that first thing to show people that there actually is a problem.

That's amazing. I don't want to rush past that comment there. So just to quickly throw it out, why did the government seize your assets and why does the IMF suck? Right. So two governments have seized my assets so far. I'm impressed. Going for the hat trick. Yeah.

The first one, the second one was directly related to Bitcoin. The first one was before Bitcoin. I was living in Ecuador. This would have been 2005. And it was politically unstable. I worked for the government, kind of. I worked for a social program which was associated with the government and I had a visa from the government

the government was overthrown by street protests and a new government took over the new government did not recognize the visa that I had gotten from the previous government and arrested me and deported me. The irony is that I was actually a participant in the protest that overthrew the government. Amazing.

Yes, that seems like revolutionary history over again. But as part of the arrest and deportation, they also froze my bank account, which I needed a bank account. I opened a bank account in Ecuador to get paid by the government, and then the next government, just froze it, right? Which is like I never got that back. So that was, that experience really helped me get Bitcoin

immediately. Because when I first heard of Bitcoin, which was eight years later, in 2013, it was related to the Cyprus bank bailins where, you know, Cyprus had some debt and they basically gave a haircut to

they went in to people to bank accounts and they took money out. Everyone doesn't know. They can do that. They can just say that you're going to pay this bill. Right, right. So that was like, and there was a line in an article that mentioned Bitcoin. And I was like, wait, is there?

Is there something where they can't do that? Because it had already happened to me. So I was, I was very interested in learning if there was a tool that would prevent that. So I got, because I understood the problem. I understood the problem. So therefore, like the solution click. right away. The second time a government froze my bank account permanently was the British government, the UK government. So I was living in the UK. I went to grad school there and I was selling

Bitcoin peer to peer on local bitcoins then. Nice. And a lot, pretty high volume. It paid for grad school. And I, you know, I'm not KYC in the people that I sell to. So I sold to all sorts of different people, including a criminal, right, somebody that the government didn't like. And, I mean, this wasn't, they were actually a criminal, right? Like, I try not to make judgments on when governments say somebody's good or bad because they have their own incentives sometimes in motivation. of but but I think they were I think they they got it right this time I was it was a a pretty large fraud like a Bernie Madoff type thing where they were selling selling fake stocks and bonds and they had the way that they bought Bitcoin for me was through a bank transfer so

they transferred from their account to my account I sent them Bitcoin So they had my bank information. So one, the police, they identified that this account was associated with this fraud. And then they identified that money was sent from that account to my account. So then they looked into my account. But because the person who was running this, the criminal was running this, they had my bank information. They actually set up a false lead for the police to me with. So they set up a shell corporation.

with my bank account, with my name. Wow. Wow. So the police, the police raided my house. Like, like, like, you know, the major crimes division. They came to my house. I wasn't home. I never went home again. I left the country. Or I was actually out of the country. I just never went back. I had to talk with the police. I had to explain Bitcoin to them because I was a And that's where the idea for my first Bitcoin came from. Okay, so officer, yeah. Yeah, the first student, the first student. But this was all on chain then, right?

So I was like, no, I could show you the transaction. I could show you the chat logs. And I had to help them understand Bitcoin in order to clear my name. So the blockchain actually helped clear my name. But it's a whole different process to unfreeze bank accounts. right like even though that invests even though like you know I'm not I'm no longer you know suspect in this case it's a different procedure to unfreeze the bank accounts

like once bank accounts are frozen once assets are seized is it technically possible to get it back yes does it actually happen rarely I'm reminded of like civil affid civil asset forfeiture in the U.S. You did it. Yeah. Yeah.

You're kind of guilty and so proven innocent. Right, right. And then what's the second one? Why does the IMF suck? Correct. Maybe they don't. Maybe you've had a change of heart. I have not. That is a hill I will die on. The IMF

represents the problem. Bitcoin represents the solution. So, which is why I've been passionate about, you know, speaking out against the IMF here in El Salvador and other places, because it's two polls for me. So why does the IMF suck? Because so I talked about earlier how how one of the major problems with the legacy system, the status quo of the Fiat world,

is that institutions that small groups of people have, not just influence, but really control over the individual. And the IMF is the poster child for that. So another thing that I've realized this year is most people don't really understand how the IMF works. And I think that's actually by design because if people understood how the IMF worked, everyone would oppose it. Right. But now I think a lot of people are like, yeah, I know.

the IMF is bad. I don't really know why. They're like kind of bad though, right? They are so much worse than that though. So the way that the IMF works is when a nation is financially distressed, they are a lender of last resort, right? So a nation has exhausted other options. No one goes to the IMF as a first choice or second choice or third choice. It is the last choice. and that's also by design. And the IMF never approaches a country. It's always the country that approaches the IMF. Interesting.

I didn't know that, yeah. Yeah. And that's also by design. So they always have leverage, right? They always, you know, if they approach the country, then they're asking the country for something. Instead, the country's asking the IMF for something. So the IMF sets the terms.

So there's so much about the IMF, like a lot of these little things that give it a lot of power and influence that I think people don't understand very well. So a nation approaches the IMF. The IMF knows that they're desperate and they'll basically do anything. So I mean, this shows you how bad the IMF is and how much countries don't want to go to them. They give low or no interest loans. Right. So it's, cheaper money than you could get anywhere else and still no one wants it. So what happens is they give conditions, right? It's like, so we'll give you money, but you have to do X, Y, and Z.

And there's not a lot of wiggle room for the country. There might be some. There might be some pushback from the country. But again, they have no leverage. Like they need the IMF. and the power of the IMF isn't. So basically the IMF dictates to nations, the conditions that they have to follow for the loan.

And all of these conditions take away, always they take away the sovereignty of the nation. The nation is no longer decided. So a great example, and they don't care about the future of the country. They're not working for the interests of the countries that they lend the money to. They're working for the interests of the country

that put the money into the IMF, right? Which is effectively the status quo. It's the rich countries. It's how the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. Like the IMF is the major mechanism that keeps the rich, rich, and the poor poor on a nation-state level and keeps the powerful, powerful, and the weak-week on that level. So an example is in Bangladesh. when they gave, you know, Bangladesh is very low line.

So they're flood prone. So they had built up a lot of levies. And IMF came in. They're like, listen, we're going to give you this loan. And they did that for a reason. Because, you know, however flawed governments are, in some way, they do represent the population. And they do have the interests of the population in mind.

So, you know, keeping the interests of their population in mind, the government of Bangladesh, presuming was like, hey, we should, you know, prevent flooding because that's bad for our constituents, right? Like, people might die. Sure. Let's build some levies. Okay. The IMF doesn't have the same concerns about the people in Bangladesh. So they said, hey, listen, you got these levies.

you know where you could make a lot of money to pay back these loans? Shrimp farming. So take down some of these levees so you could flood some of these low-lying areas and do some shrimp farm in there because that's going to boost your GDP because that's kind of what they care about. They care about like that's the metric that they're really after on a finance side. The metric that they really, really care about is intangible. It's control and power.

But on the financial side, it's like, how are you going to boost your GDP fastest? And it's not having these levies. It's taking them down and encourage and shrimp farming and all that. And as a result of that, thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, this is a couple of decades ago, have died in Bangladesh from Floodin as a result of these levies coming down. But there was a short-term boost in GDP. you know the IMF doesn't care about people die in in whatever country they're

lending money to they don't care at all about that they publicly care about boosting the GDP and you know behind the scenes they care about keeping the weak week right and the powerful powerful and and one of one of the another kind of like genius part of the IMF is that it is always unpopular to take an IMF loan because as much as the general population is very poorly educated on the IMF, there is still a sense that a nation is in trouble if they take a loan. It's like going to the Fed window. Right.

So once a nation takes a loan, the government and, you know, it's. government allies who are best positioned to talk about how exploitative the IMF is are now the most incentivized to pretend that they're not to pretend like oh yeah we're like going to do this anyway or it's a good idea like no government is like yeah we traded our sovereignty for money no one will ever say that. So the people who are best positioned to push back against the role of the IMF in the world are the least incentivized to do it, which is another like kind of genius design of it. And then I just hate the IMF. Well, John, let me ask you this. They said that you said that, you know, they're going to take the country's sovereignty. Sovereignty. And okay, I'm with you on that.

but I'm devil's advocate here. It sounds like if the country got himself into that shitty of a position, the sovereignty wasn't working out all that great to begin with. So what is it that the country should be doing instead of going to the IMF? Great question. So this is one of these things where it's more preventative than anything. Like once you're at the point where you're going to the IMF, there's not much you could do. There's something you should have done five years ago or 10 years ago.

there's not that much you could do in that moment. I was optimistic that El Salvador could have found an alternative with the Bitcoin bonds, which they announced in 2021, but that never came to fruition. And I'm still hopeful that there is a way that Bitcoin could provide an alternative to create debt out of stranded energy. which a lot of these countries have, like, they're stranded to energy everywhere. But even if that was, even if that came to fruition, it would still, you can't wait until the last minute to implement that. It's preventative more than anything. And one last point

about the IMF that I think people don't understand and I think is important to understand. It's not just about, in fact, it's most. not about the money that the IMF loans to the country. It's mostly about the signal that that sends to larger piles of money. So when a nation, so typically a nation, if they need to create debt, then, you know, they might issue bonds. And as the country becomes more financially distressed, less people want to buy those bonds. so they have to hike the interest rate and until the point that usually when they go to the IMF, you could always, a nation could always issue debt and issue bonds.

Yeah. But it comes to a point where the interest is so high that it just doesn't make sense for them. Like, well, we'll just be paying interest rather than the principal forever. So what a nation takes an IMF loan, it sends a signal. to institutions, governments, you know, large piles of money that buy bonds and might otherwise lend and help these nations, that this country will play ball, right? This country will kind of do whatever it takes to get money. So then the interest rates come down. They could issue more bonds. It opens up a lot of other larger buckets of money. It's a signal. And that's also part of the leverage that the IMF has once a nation takes an IMF loan. So they never give, the IMF never gives the nation the money in a lump sum.

It's always spaced out over many years. So if a nation breaks conditions of the loan, you know, a year later, two years later, three years later, while it's still in progress, while they're still distributing the funds, then they could pause or even or even just stop. And that sends the same sort of a signal, right? Because basically the reason why the interest rates are going up before the IMF loan is because people are lose, investors are losing confidence that the nation will honor their obligations. Yeah. Sure. And then the IMF loan is like, oh, they are going to honor their obligation.

So cool. We could get involved again. But then if they break those conditions, then the confidence is even worse than it was to begin with. Like, oh. So like, yeah, I definitely don't want to give them any money. So it sends. So again, the IMF is designed very intelligently, really, to they have so much leverage over the country. And yeah.

And that's so that's why. I, I, I, I, I, I, we need to destroy the IMF and the way, I was waiting for that. All right. Too long didn't read destroy IMF. John, has there ever been a situation where a country has broken free from the IMF or a situation where they've, what's to say, um, uh, defied the term set out, but gotten away with it? So on the first one, there have been countries that have taken loans from the IMF. IMF that have turned out pretty good. Iceland took a loan from the IMF,

and I think they're in a pretty good place. You know, not recently, but it worked out on a long timeline, I think pretty good for Iceland. So there are exceptions to that, where it actually does work out to the country's advantage. There are, to my knowledge, no countries that have ever actually defied the IMF and come out the other side better

almost every single country that takes a loan from the IMF pretends to defy them but they don't and the IMF doesn't actually care about that the IMF doesn't care if you pretend to defy them they care if you actually defy them

So, you know, again, these countries that take loans from the IMF are never going to say that, yeah, we compromise their sovereignty for this. So they posture that they, you know, they negotiated really hard and they, you know, they wore them down and whatever it is. They posture, but I don't believe there's ever been a country that has actually defied them. them and it worked out for them. Interesting. I want to pivot for a minute. There's a lot I still want to pick your brain about, but you spent a number of years now in El Salvador,

if I'm not mistaken. And you know, you're in our chat the other day. I was thinking myself like, we don't do ourselves any favors by not speaking honestly about what we're seeing, even if they're like people we consider on our team or friends or allies or projects that we like. So with the time that you now spent in El Salvador,

the experiment that they're doing there, because sometimes I hear kind of mixed messages, what have they been doing that has worked out really well? It's been very positive for BIC, coin and kind of freedom, things that we should take and adopt elsewhere. And what maybe was a mistake or didn't work out as well that we should learn from and not repeat? Yeah, a great question.

And I think this is something that we should all be asking. One of my current frustrations with El Salvador or I guess El Salvador boosters is that nobody wants to talk about the things that could have been done better. nobody wants to talk about the pit balls and mistakes everyone wants to pretend like it was perfect and everything just worked out perfectly and I came to El Salvador

about four and a half years ago so before the after the announcement before the law went into effect and my hope then was that El Salvador like it was I think it was logical and obvious that they would do some things right and something's not.

That's just how it is if you pioneer something. So my hope was that other nations or other parts of the world would copy what worked and learn from the mistakes and do it better, right, that the second place, the third place, the fourth place would learn and do it better. But in order to learn, we have to be honest that there were mistakes, right? If we pretend like no mistakes were made, that everything was perfect, then we learned nothing.

And in fact, now my worry is that the mistakes that were made here because they're, you know, people want to pretend that that never happened. They actually, one, there's no, there's no learning from it. And two, there's the danger that these mistakes could become entrenched. rather than change that could become entrenched. So, you know, not to keep bringing up education, but this is something that, you know, is very close to me.

One thing that if I could go back in time and have some influence over how a nation adopts Bitcoin before they did, then it would be education. Because on day one, there was, here in San Salvador where I live, which is the capital,

and it's the major city, this is where most of the country lives. Almost literally no one knew anything about Bitcoin. And there were not really any efforts to address that. for years from from from the from the from the government side um and from the grassroots side like we were trying to address that but like there's capacity issues right like we were we were literally double in in size every 10 weeks which is crazy growth but like wow you know it still was a drop in the bucket compared to what needs to be done for a whole country so one one very specific opportunity

that was missed by El Salvador with education is. So one thing that they did well was they installed Bitcoin ATMs around the country in great locations, in malls and parks and in high traffic areas all over the place. Super accessible. Like, you see them all over the place and they're not, yeah, very accessible. I went on day one, day two, day three, early on, I went, and they're all staffed by two to three people that work for the ATM. Cool. So I went on day one, day two, day three, and they were packed.

The government also had an air job, everybody that signed up for the government wallet. They gave them $30 in Bitcoin. So a lot of people were going to the ATM to get $30. Yep. So there were every single ATM had crazy long lines. And every single ATM had two or three, maybe in these early days, even four staff at each ATM. And the people on the line, the people who were going to the ATMs, knew nothing about Bitcoin. So they would

Many of them Maybe even a majority As they were going to the ATM They might ask about Bitcoin Like hey I have a question Like how does it work with this Can I do this with it? Can I do that?

Where can I learn more? To the staff The staff knew nothing about Bitcoin Yeah They only knew And the ATMs are like Pretty self-explanatory right There wasn't

So they were there to walk you through how to use the ATM, not to teach you about Bitcoin. And that was such a huge missed opportunity. Yeah. If that, the government could have taken a weekend, right? A weekend, not this super intensive thing. A weekend brought these few hundred people together who were going to be out all these ATMs and given them a crash course. They could have had, you know, some brochures, some pamphlets at the ATMs that people could have taken home with them. they could have worked with projects that could have done it for them.

They could have outsourced it. And they didn't. So if another country adopts Bitcoin or a city or anything, then they shouldn't neglect education. Right. Education is so important. If people don't understand Bitcoin, then that makes them susceptible to scams and bad experiences with Bitcoin.

And it also, it also, prevents or makes it more difficult for them to realize how powerful this tool is and how it could benefit them. What I think the government has done well here in El Salvador with Bitcoin adoption is maybe some exceptions here. But for the most part, gotten out of the way, right? Fair. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, you know, there's a, there's a Bitcoin Beach, of course, but there's a couple of other circular economies that have popped up around the country and I

the government isn't stopping them, right? The government isn't making things more difficult for them. They're letting them do their thing. I actually think, you know, my experience here in El Salvador, I wouldn't really advocate for nations to adopt Bitcoin at this point, I would advocate for governments to get out of the way. Because almost all of the progress here in El Salvador around Bitcoin adoption has come from

grassroots initiatives. Almost none of it has come from the government. I know the perception is the opposite. Governments aren't incentivized to say that other people did a better job than them. I was going to say, yeah, what politician has an incentive to get out of the way and let other people do it. Yeah, but, but if there was ever a government that actually wanted their country to adopt Bitcoin, I

think they get out of the way. And here's one more thing that El Salvador did well, that is them getting out of the way. There's no capital gains tax on Bitcoin here. Yeah. So that that's get rid of capital. Get rid of capital gains tax and

get out of the way of Bitcoiners who want to push adoption. I think that's it. The formula, I think is quite simple, actually. I think you're spot on in the sense that there's no skipping over the work.

Like, your Bitcoin journey and understanding the benefits that come, it's kind of like benefits from, like, nutrition and benefits from exercise. There's no shortcut. You're going to have to learn these things. Education's kind of a requirement. I do have another question I want to get to, but Gary, why don't you go first?

Yeah, you know, you said, you criticized a bit, things they could have done better, not having people there educated to teach the people getting their $30 what Bitcoin is, what about it? I don't think you were saying it necessarily to criticize the state in particular. You were saying it because you want us to be able to learn from our mistakes and be honest about things. And I know you've previously said that you and your organization really go out of your way to not take money from any other company, organization, or government if there are strings attached to that money, if it's going to force you.

to say something in a certain way that you otherwise might not say it. And this gets back to something we were talking about earlier, about so much how valuable it is the freedom to say no, the freedom to be able to express yourself and act in a way. And I wonder how much of that can be taught. I wonder how much of that Bitcoin can influence somebody to see the freedom aspect once they adopt it for a number go up. Or is that something a mindset that some people have to come to on their own even before adopting

Bitcoin? And I think about, you know, we talked about other countries, talked about your time in the UK and how now they're arresting people for social media posts. Australia just made it illegal for anyone under 16 to view social media. Of course, we have the samurai devs who were convicted and have years in prison ahead of them. What would you say to folks to get them to realize the power they have to not always have to think of how do I just get that extra buck, but end up living in a gilded cage and willing to say, you know, maybe I have enough things. And if I don't have that extra day on vacation in a fancy hotel, that doesn't mean as much to me to having peace of mind and to be able to think and act like a free human being in this very limited

of time we have on this planet. Yeah. So another thing that Bitcoin does exceptionally well is it transforms us from spenders into savers. So again, it's about time preference and looking further into the future. But it's also about realizing what is valuable and what isn't. And it kind of doesn't matter if you have a new pair of shoes. or not. It does matter if you're free. It does matter if you're free to make your own choices

to donate to the causes that you want, to spend your money on the things that you want, to not spend your money on things that you don't want, to not spend your time on things that you don't want. I, it's tough because I think everybody comes to this in their own way. I don't think there's a standard. This works for everyone. But you know, you mentioned that we don't take, since day one, we've never taken money from,

from any government or any corporation with strings attached. Because there's always strings attached, right? Like that's, it's understanding the incentive models. Governments and corporations have their own incentives. And it's different from what our incentives are. So that's the theory. And I think a lot of people could grasp the theory, but to live through it is different, right?

And, you know, example here is, is I have been critical of the IMF after El Salvador took a loan. If we were taken money from the government, I probably wouldn't. I probably wouldn't be critical. So it's it's like I understood that before. I understood the theory. But now to live through it is like, oh, yes, we definitely made the right design choice when we decided not to take money from from these piles, which are all the traditional piles to take money from. Right. Those are the, they're the tradition.

If you want the same, if you want to create a different future, you have to act differently in the present. So we can't copy the models that come from the Fiat world and expect different results. We'll get the same results. So education, let's use education. Education, Fiat education, or non-Bitcoin education is primarily government funded. Right. Yep. And it's broken.

It's a broken system. What? That's an understatement. Yeah. Traditional education teaches what to think, not how to think. Because that's what governments want. Governments want to influence what you think. They don't want to teach you how to think.

Sure. Whatever they say, that's just not their incentives. Of course. Yeah. So that's why I firmly believe that's why education is broken in that world. And that's why we need to do things differently with Bitcoin. We have this incredible opportunity to reimagine what's possible. But in order to execute on that and actually have a different future,

we can't copy the past. We can't copy the models that we're trying to replace. We need to make them irrelevant. We need to build new ones. And that is so much harder. It is so much harder to have a machete and climb up the side of the mountain that no one ever has before. And, you know, worry about all these snakes from the branches that you're whacking away at. It's so much easier.

There's a trail on the other side with steps and a rail, right? But like those steps and a rail lead to a place we already know we don't. want to end up at. Right. And like you're saying, I heard in your interview with a frat, I guess about a year ago. Did you do that interview with her? Yeah, or maybe it was in January. Yeah, but about a year ago. About a year ago. And you were saying just that, that it's not enough to just oppose the current system. It's finding aware, maybe you both were saying it, finding a way to build towards something new because it just saying, no, no, they're doing it wrong. They're doing it wrong, you're just trying to, I forget how you put it, but it was really interesting way.

You're just trying to slow down. You say it. You say it better than I will. It cannot be about slow in the bad. It must be about speed in the good. That's right. Yeah, not something bad to speeding the good. And you're right, because so often we think in terms of politics, or if we just vote for, if we vote harder for the right guy, they'll start trimming away the power of, of state in these existence. They have no incentive to do that. It's not going to happen. And what are you trying to build towards? Right. And we're never voting for the right guy. We're voting for the least bad guy. Yeah. Each of our minds, whoever that is. And the least bad guy, if you're if you're advocating for the least bad, you're actually advocating for slowing the bad.

Yeah. Where the real revolution comes from speed and the good. Right. I have one thing before you get to Nathan, just one thing that you said how you don't take money. And if you were taking money from the state, it would be a lot harder for you to criticize the IMF now. And you said you might not do it. But because you never took the money in the first place, you find that you don't have that restriction on your own voice. And I think there's something very important about that in human psychology, about how people are more willing to do things in their mind that are meaningful to them in other ways if it means not getting the money to begin with versus having the money or something taken away from them that they already had. And I think of, and this is nowhere near comparable

necessarily, but I think of, I'm an actor. I'm part-time actor. I've been doing it for 15 years. And for a long while, I was getting a pretty frequent amount of auditions. And it was nice. I was doing enough to live on. And about two years ago after, you know, the really ramp up of Israel, Palestine, I started posting a lot on social media, my criticism of the Israeli government and their lobbying efforts here in America and so on and so forth. And I had a feeling it would probably cost me auditions and jobs. And I don't know if you know, there's a lot of Jews in Hollywood. I am, by the way, Jewish myself. Don't let the name fool you. I'm sure someone call me a self-hating Jew. but I had a feeling it would cost me. And it did. It cost me. I'm getting nowhere near the

auditions I used to for probably other reasons in addition to that, but I've no doubt that it cost me in some regard. And it was hard. But now that I'm on the other side of it, it was so liberating. And I'm like, I can't imagine being in that frame of mind where I'm worried about expressing myself when there are kids literally dying and getting maimed and fighting for their lives. And how much do I have? I have all the money I'll ever need. My kids will never go hungry. they'll never lack a roof over their head, hopefully theory, you know, fingers crossed. Do I need, like you said, that extra pair of sneakers, that all that would have done for me? Like, what difference is that making the grand scheme?

I have it better off the 99.999% of people have ever existed on the face of the earth. What extra few dollars am I fighting for? So to get into that mindset, gosh, that's so liberating. Yes. Yes. I don't have a question there. It's just something. But that reminds me, and you referenced it earlier, like I've, you know, being an activist, even before Bitcoin, I, so I'm an anarchist, right? Like, I've always viewed the principal problem as the concentration of power.

And I've always considered that the institutions that have this. power that wield it in such terrible ways only get it with our permission, right? They take that from us. Actually, I think better phrases, we give it to them, right? And because of that, I never, so I would organize protests, you know, against the Iraq war was kind of like where I really cut my teeth and I am apt to. like 20 years ago or even more at this point. And as a point of principle,

I would never, never organize a protest or even I would try to go to protest that did not ask permission from the state. So that didn't seek permits, that didn't seek permission to dissent. That never made sense to me. To seek permission to dissent from mulls from which you are dissent in makes no sense at all.

all. It's you are given them power. You are given them authority. So because of that, I got arrested a lot, right? Because, but there was, there were a couple of, a couple of times, and it was like minor, right? Like, you know, within 24 hours, I'd be out and the charges had we dropped a few months later. It was mostly an inconvenience rather than anything else. But, but before that, Before taking these actions and getting arrested and actually like, you know, spending a couple of nights in a jail cell at different times, usually just one at a time, I was scared.

I was really scared to get arrested. And that is by design, right? Like many people avoid protests. Many people avoid the sort of dissent that could get them into trouble. and when you avoid it, like we become our actions. Our mind follows our actions. Like if we start to avoid certain behaviors

because we're afraid of the consequences of them, it actually changes the way that we think. Like we will self-justified be like, yeah, but is it so bad? Like I didn't go, but I didn't go because I don't even really believe in that anymore. So it changes the way that you think. But the converse is also true.

So once I went through that, once I had those experiences in the rearview mirror, once I sat in a jail cell and I realized my conviction did not change at all. Whatever the issue was, whether it was the IMF or the Iraq War, whatever, I felt the exact same way about it. I realized that they didn't actually have any power over me, right? I realized that there's nothing to be afraid of. Because that's the, you know, obviously you're, you're, we all fear for our physical safety. But it's, I would argue more important than that is, is, is, is our mental well-being.

Is our, is, is the freedom that we have inside of our own minds. And when I, when I, when I realized that all they could do, every, everything that they could throw out me wouldn't change what was inside of my mind, wouldn't change my thoughts, wouldn't change what I believed. It was so liberated and so freeing. And I think Bitcoin does that in its own way, right? Like you cross through this threshold and it's like, wait a second, they can't take this for me.

They can't take this form of speech for me. They can't take this form and power for me. Okay. I'm free, right? But you have to pass through that challenge and you have to come out. other side. Yeah. You're not like there's a there's a reason I think much of the world's order is maintained not necessarily by the oppressors, but by the mindset of the oppressed. A hundred percent. The state government, whether companies, wherever they can and force their

will on everybody all the time, 90 percent of it is just people self-regulating because they, well, I saw what happened to that guy. I'm definitely not going to do. that. Yeah, and it's so, it's so liberate and it's so free and to, to, to know that it's another, it's another way to experience for the individual to experience their own power. It's like, right, I control this. Right. No one else could get inside this. But I don't think that's something that you can tell people. They have to experience it for themselves. They don't understand that feeling of being a free human being until they cross through that painful experience and come out the other side. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why it sounds so strange to say that given arrested was

a good experience. But it was. It made me freer. It made me stronger. I think it made me a better person. That's beautiful. John, this has been fantastic. I have a couple of things I want to ask your quick. One, I get a lot of people that come to me wanting to know how to work in Bitcoin how to help with Bitcoin adoption, Bitcoin education. So for my first Bitcoin, what is it that you guys could currently benefit from? If somebody wanted to jump in and get on board and help out, where do you need educators, what courses are maybe missing that somebody could maybe spin up? What will be helpful to you guys?

And where can people go to find all that information? Yeah. So the easiest single place to go to is just our website, which is my first Bitcoin.org, and there's tons of different resources there. if you are an educator, and we all are in our own way, right? Like you don't have to have this formal train in and have a classroom and the right seats and whatever. We're all educators in our own way. If you want to, we maintain a or we support a network of independent Bitcoin educators around the world.

There's more information. At this point, it's a self-governed network. So the network itself decides whether new educators are admitted or not. You could find more about that on the website. If you were, you know, experience with curriculum development, then you could find out how to volunteer. If there's job post-ins related to that, you could reach out to us on the website. But we need everything, right?

This is a huge, huge task ahead of us. So we need everything. I think actually the most important thing that the individual could do isn't actually to help my first Bitcoin. It's to help themselves and mels around them. And we actually want to make that easier for you. So we want to create tools and resources frameworks to make that easier for everyone to do that, either individually or on a larger scale as part of a project.

But, you know, also we also need a help, right? So we do need people to help with, and you could do both, right? It's not mutually exclusive. But we do need help feedback or help create in new materials and proven existing materials, help with marketing, help with social media, help with, like literally. everything with fundraising. Fundraising is pretty important. So because we don't take money from traditional sources,

we are reliant on the community itself. So almost all of our funding comes from either grants or individual donors. We do have a page on Geyser, but you could also donate directly on our webpage. We only take Bitcoin. And yeah, we really believe that on a long enough timeline education will be captured by whoever funds it. And we want to be captured by you. Right.

We want to be captured by the community. That's so nice. Lastly, give me the Twitter handle. Give me the website. Yeah. Yeah. So the website, again, is my first Bitcoin. dot org and the Twitter handle is my first Bitcoin underscore.

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