BTC Sessions - United In Bitcoin, Divided in Fiat: Why Progressives Need Bitcoin Now | Jason Maier

Starting point is 00:00:00 Bitcoin is the money for the resistance. No matter who's adopting Bitcoin, it's one step closer to sort of global reserve currency and hyper-bitcoinization. We want to broaden the tent of Bitcoin adoption because we see the benefits that it might have on society and just for everyday people's lives. Meet Jason Mayer, author of The Progressives Case for Bitcoin, a book advocating for Bitcoin from a left-leading perspective, educating progressives on its societal benefits and challenging political assumptions in the space.

Starting point is 00:00:26 In this episode, we'll discuss the environmental benefits of Bitcoin, the left misses. Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining specifically could address and mitigate some of those concerns. How changing political forces will push progressives towards Bitcoin in the coming years. That people outside of the sort of the conservative bubble arguing what's happening. They're concerned, right? People on the left fearful of what's like what's the next step and where are we three years from now. Strategies for communicating with the left about Bitcoin and why conservatives and libertarians need them on board too. Describe to them the,

Starting point is 00:01:00 problem and echo back to them, what their concerns are, and how Bitcoin kind of addresses that issue or helps mitigate the problem. We also find some unexpected common ground. You sort of sounding like a libertarian here. Now, before we dive into the episode, I need to address the tone of the interview and why the elephant of the room is never brought up. We recorded this interview on Wednesday, September 10th at 12.30 p.m. Eastern, about two hours before the horrific, tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Starting point is 00:01:27 So with that, let's begin. Jay's, that's a pleasure to have you on the show. It is a great change of pace. I listened to your interview with Bitcoin Magazine a couple of years ago. And one of the things that you mentioned is how you will oftentimes be in Bitcoin spaces. And everybody sort of just assumes, well, if you're into Bitcoin and you believe X, you probably also believe ABC, D, E, and F. And it's an assumption that I personally have sort of dealt with in the other job that I do. I'm an actor on the side. And I've been in rooms where everybody is sort of on the political left. And if somebody, like you said, cracks a joke or makes a political point, it's just assumed that

Starting point is 00:02:10 everybody in the room agrees with them. And hey, I'm here. I don't necessarily agree with what you said. So I think it's really important not to fall into group think because you can easily start making mistakes and there's nobody to challenge you. So I personally think it's wonderful to have people from a wide variety of perspectives in the Bitcoin space. How do you view the importance of expanding Bitcoin beyond people who were just sort of libertarian or conservatives or ANCAP? And what sort of benefit do you see, if any, to expanding that to the libertarians, conservatives, and CAPs to have a perspective other than those that they're exposed to constantly? Yeah. So I appreciate the question. I think it's probably one of the more important, you know,

Starting point is 00:02:53 things to consider at least sort of my space, you know, my role in the Bitcoin space. you know, my day job is that I'm a teacher. I'm an educator. I want people on board with Bitcoin. You know, I get a thrill and energized from teaching high school students math all the time. And now I'm energized by teaching people about Bitcoin and understanding the importance of that technology. And so when you really just view what we're trying to do from sort of an education perspective, it's having different messages out there for different kinds of people, having the ability to sort of question your assumptions. or to make people feel comfortable so that they can learn something complicated. All of that's, I think, critical. So I think that that's really the key benefit is if we want to broaden the tent of like Bitcoin adoption, which I think that we do because we see the benefits that it might have on society and just for everyday people's lives, that is harder to accomplish if we're speaking a language that doesn't resonate with people or if we're assuming that they're on board with certain

Starting point is 00:03:56 sort of political or philosophical standpoints that they're not. So just from purely like, how do we teach people about something that they don't know about or they don't realize the importance of or is really intimidating? Just having different voices in the space for, you know, for all of us who consider ourselves bitcoins to be able to speak a language or at least point to somebody to say, well, I know that you don't maybe agree with me on this, but here's a resource that might speak your language. is crucial because I don't think that we're going to get the next wave of people who really appreciate the value of Bitcoin if we're not able to do that.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And for people who are already in it, you know, most of the, like, the most frequent message I get about my book is that somebody, a Bitcoiners bought it for somebody that they love or that they care about, right? So it's usually a gift for somebody else. So I think that the message of like a Progressive case for Bitcoin is, simply like here's here's some of the priorities that exist out there for everyday people who don't really think about Bitcoin a lot. Here are the problems that they see in the world. Here are the frustrations that they have with the system. And how can we talk about Bitcoin

Starting point is 00:05:08 in a way that it sort of honors those frustrations and those problems that they see in the world? That language and those messages are super important if your hope is to sort of get somebody off board that you care about. I think that makes complete sense. We definitely want to expand Bitcoin, especially of people we care about, you know, whether whatever their politics are, we love them, we care about them. We want them to benefit from this. And I think there's also a bit of a game theory thing that we can get into about how everybody benefits by having more people on board, whether it comes to just simple number go up or not having politicians step in to try to stop it. I do want to get

Starting point is 00:05:42 into that, but first, if you don't mind, if you bear with me, I would love for you to sort of define how you view progressivism in your mind. And I ask that not to start a political argument, but because for me as a libertarian, it often seems that the definition of progressive, along with the definition of conservative, it's sometimes hard for me to grasp what those principles might be. Sometimes they seem to me to be more of an amalgam of, well, this is our issue position on this issue of the day that we all sort of agree with with a wink and a nod, and that can change from month to month or year to year. So I, and if I'm wrong, please tell me if you think I'm wrong. And maybe you see libertarian ideals that way, too. I'm not immune to that. So how would you define like the

Starting point is 00:06:29 principles of progressivism or being a progressive and just so we know we're operating with a common language so we can see how that applies to picture? Sure. Sure. So I think it's actually pretty useful because especially for folks that are outside of the U.S. You know, I get this question a lot. So I think that in the most broadest terms, you know, and I speak for myself, I see that, I see that, the importance of understanding societal structures and understanding that there are people who are sort of systematically disadvantaged or vulnerable in our society and a desire to see those people, you know, benefited or helped or, you know, sort of recognized in their struggle. So I think that that has a lot of very practical, like, all right, this certain policy looks like

Starting point is 00:07:18 this because I believe that. But I think that in the broadest sense, that's maybe what we're talking about. But there is a role, like in my, in my worldview and my political landscape of the way I think about things, there's a role for a government to have a voice in some of those solutions and not all. And I think that I'm happy to get in this specific, like a montage, like you say, like a hodgepodge with different issues on different things. But in general, a recognition that the system that we have in society. I think Bitcoiners talk a lot about how there's certain systems that are broken. Like our financial system is broken.

Starting point is 00:07:54 And like it's not any, it's not Jerome Powell's fault. It's just a system-wide issue that doesn't work. And I see other systems besides the financial system also affecting people in their everyday lives in ways that I think is unfortunate and things that we can either try to mitigate or replace or help. So I think that that's like, maybe so broad that it's not useful, but I think that that's the idea of,

Starting point is 00:08:22 you know, when I say I'm a progressive, I feel like that's the role. Like there's a community and a government and a society that all is not really functioning properly and that we all have different roles to play and helping it be better. Well,

Starting point is 00:08:37 and that is sort of, and I want to get to you too, Nate, that is sort of why I wanted to ask you that, because I saw in that previous interview you did, you did sort of define it in the sense that, well, I do believe government has a role. And I think, you know, 98, 99% of people, regardless of the politics would say, well, yeah, I'm not for no government. I mean, some people are, and that's cool.

Starting point is 00:08:56 So I don't know how much that really sets apart progressivism from conservatism, from liberalism, from even mainstream libertarianism. It does sound like you're saying that there are certain structures that should be changed. I think you find a lot of agreement with libertarian types, even some conservative types. So that's where I was trying to ask to try to get a little more specific. And so sometimes it's, you know, it's certainly what are the structures that we have trouble with, right? Or how much of a role should government have? Or, you know, those are sort of the differences, right? So I think that between progressives or conservatives, sometimes it's like, well, nobody likes the way things are going. But like, what are the problems that you actually see?

Starting point is 00:09:36 What are the structures and systems in place that are actually harming people? And then between sort of like everyone else and libertarians, like how much role or how much, you know, how much, you know, much power should the government have to address those things and how should they do it? So I think those are all fair game in terms of, you know, like specific issues or just general topics. Okay. On that note, yeah, Jason, of the non-financial systems that you see issue with that progressives take issue with as well, too, that Bitcoin can help with.

Starting point is 00:10:08 Is there one in particular that really stands out in your mind? You can give us a bit of a layout of how Bitcoin can help and why it's also so important for the progressive community. Yeah, I mean, so the number one thing that jumps out in terms of just an issue that progressives care about before they're ever in the Bitcoin is like the idea of environmentalism and global warming and all of like global climate change. These are things that just run-of-the-mill progressive people, liberal people are going to latch on to. And, you know, I go into my book in great detail about how, you know, the ways that Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining specifically could address and mitigate some of those. concerns. I think that's sort of, you know, it's connected to the financial system, of course, and, you know, there's a lot of sort of misaligned incentives and things like that that they're

Starting point is 00:10:55 causing and contributing to that problem. But it's not, you know, there are also people out there that will deny that this is true or it's happening or that maybe it's not so bad and it's just an excuse for the government to control people. And that's not a language that would probably resonate with any buddy in my audience, right? So I feel like that. So I think that that's, yeah, that's just a specific example of saying, all right, well, like, you know, I think that global climate change is real and it's caused by, you know, humans. And that here are the ways and the offsets that we can do to help mitigate that. Some of those are worth it and some of those need to be longer term solutions. But Bitcoin in terms of, you know, incentivizing renewables and mitigating methane and all of these things.

Starting point is 00:11:40 And maybe even more so than that, just educating people about how the electrical grid. works and how electricity does and doesn't work. And that just using electricity is inherently a bad thing. Those are all really useful conversations to have if you're trying to get somebody on board to Bitcoin who has only heard that it's harmful to the environment or something like that. There's a low information person who's just starting their journey. It's not useful. And there are plenty, I don't even know where you guys are on this.

Starting point is 00:12:11 but, well, global climate change is just a hoax so the government can control more people, right? That, you know, that's fine if you believe that. It's not going to win over anybody that sort of fits within my target audience. No, 100%. It was something that Spike coincided to us recently too that really stood out to me is that people at the first know that you care about them and what's important to them before they're even remotely opening to listening to you. And so you have to come at it. You have to attack the left from the left, the right from the right. you have to come at it from their perspective and first demonstrate empathy before they're really

Starting point is 00:12:43 going to be open to particularly a novel or conflicting idea. I do just want to tease out briefly if you can, even just the elevator picture, a little bit of an explanation too. We do have a lot of newcomers actually stopping by the channel. For someone that hasn't heard how Bitcoin can improve upon environmental issues, could you give us a little bit more information about that? Sure. So, you know, the very structure of Bitcoin mining, like as an industry, is important to understand that there's essentially perfect demand response within the Bitcoin mining operations. So what that means is if there is a demand for electricity from other sources, let's say there's a heat wave and a lot of people are trimming on their air conditioners and they need

Starting point is 00:13:27 electricity in a community, then a Bitcoin miner who's plugged into that same electrical grid can immediately and with sort of instant accuracy dial down their operations or turn them off. So this demand response is important because if you really care about, let's say, renewable energy sources, things like solar and wind, and in your mind, that's sort of the path towards having sustainable energy production or at least a part of it, those sources of electricity that are being generated are variable, right? The sun's not shining all the time. and the wind's not blowing all the time. So if there's a demand side and Bitcoin miners have to dial down or dial up because of that demand,

Starting point is 00:14:12 well, the same is true for the supply of electricity. When electricity is generated, it needs to be used or it sort of dissipates into the earth. There's no financially viable way to store mass amount of electricity for like a grid. So all of which is to say that if you want your electrical grid to be, you know, primarily hooked up to wind or solar power, having Bitcoin miners available to you to sort of dial up or dial down their demand is useful because it can kind of balance the grid. And in addition to that, a lot of renewable sources, things like hydropower and wind and solar,

Starting point is 00:14:56 sometimes there's not really an incentive to build that out because the demand doesn't exist where the electricity is being supplied. immediately. So Bitcoin miners are, you know, just as a whole, are a revenue source and able to sort of incentivize a build out of that infrastructure, which is costly, and a revenue source for those companies who are trying to generate electricity in a way that, you know, might not be incentivized to do that otherwise. So you're going to see more solar, more wind, more hydropower, things like that. So those are a couple of quick tidbits. There's also wasted methane gas in

Starting point is 00:15:35 landfills and in oil fields and things like that it just gets burned off and really stood the atmosphere in Bitcoin mining because it's location agnostic and can move anywhere and it's pretty mobile can actually utilize that energy and in the process mitigate it and turn it into less harmful greenhouse gases.

Starting point is 00:15:53 So there's a lot of different ways it can happen but certainly the picture as it's painted in a lot of the media or some politicians is like, well, you're using electricity and that's bad. And it's just more complicated than that. You know, I had a conversation recently with somebody and just sort of articulating the differences between like a Bitcoin mining operation and AI data center and how Bitcoin miners are willing and a responsive to turn off when they need to.

Starting point is 00:16:22 And that was news to that person. It just lumped it all in together and didn't really distinguish. So like that education is part of what I'm trying to do. Jason, this is the internet. We don't do du lots here. I say I prefer the long form, at least as somebody cares about it. They can watch the whole thing. Imagine mining Bitcoin, cheaper than buying on an exchange with direct payouts hitting your wallet like clockwork.

Starting point is 00:16:46 Saz mining makes it real. You own the rig. No gimmicks. It's your asset pumping out Bitcoin every single day. No markup on hardware or electricity. They get paid when you get paid. Fully aligning incentives. Mining Bitcoin below exchange cost is a great way to DCA your staff.

Starting point is 00:17:00 It's so simple, anyone can do it. No tech skills required. You get white glove support and education, a rig performance guarantee, plus it's powered by 100% carbon-free energy prioritizing renewables. Ready to take control of your Bitcoin future? Visit SaaSMining.com by scanning the QR code or clicking the link in the description down below to book a free consult and start mining today. Attention all freedom-loving Alberta bitcoins.

Starting point is 00:17:23 Tired of the Big Six banks freezing funds, blocking transactions, or slamming your account shut without warning or explanation just for dipping into Bitcoin? Remember the Freedom Convoy debanking nightmare? Federal government has invoked the emergencies act. But don't let them control your money or raise your financial life. Join the pioneers over at Bow Valley Credit Union, a place run by freedom and sound money advocates. I banked there myself.

Starting point is 00:17:44 They are the first and only traditional banker credit union in Canada to directly integrate Bitcoin via their Bitcoin Gateway. If you have to use dollars, why settle for a Fiat only account when you could seamlessly move in and out of Bitcoin? No hassle, no questions, no re-hypification, no leverage. This isn't paper Bitcoin. Withdraw to self-custody at any time. insured and auditable, it's perfect for adding Bitcoin to your corporate balance sheet.

Starting point is 00:18:04 If you or your business is in Alberta, switch to your Bitcoin refuge at Bow ValleyCU.com. Scan the QR code or click the link below. Continue with that, Jason. There was something actually that you said earlier that really stood out to me, and I have this idea. It could be a completely crazy idea, but I wanted to run it past you. So you spoke about Bitcoin being attracting people who feel disadvantaged and that kind of being part of the progressive view. the thing that I was thinking about the other night is kind of the idea of skating to where the puck is

Starting point is 00:18:32 or where the puck's going to be or versus where the puck necessarily currently is. I kind of have this theory that Bitcoin is not necessarily. I mean, it's always going to be kind of libertarian, but it's definitely not necessarily conservative. That I think what it is is this anti-authoritarian. And in what I mean by that is it's always going to find itself with the underdog of the day. Depending on what the dominant culture is,

Starting point is 00:18:51 depending on what the dominant political party is, that it'll be the people who feel disadvantaged that needs something that gives them that power of the individual that's going to ultimately attract them back. And so with that, I would say that over the last maybe decade or so, the Trump phenomenon and kind of what we've seen rise up there was a response to, I would call kind of pseudo progressive authoritarianism. You can think of like the cancel culture, a bit of a harder swing in terms of moving, what would you say?

Starting point is 00:19:17 Yeah, I'd say the cancel culture, the kind of a little more nanny state aspects coming into. I think they definitely felt like conservatives were being pushed to the outskirts, being kind of marginalized, and then we had this response in return. And I think that's why that group was primed and ready for Bitcoin, right? They felt like they had no power. They needed something to kind of boost them up. In that same vein, I'm getting increasingly concerned that we're seeing the pendulum swing back the other way, that we might have, unfortunately, a return to think like the George Bush,

Starting point is 00:19:43 neocon kind of years, that we might have this conservative kind of authoritarianism creeping into the dominant culture, creeping into that position, where then your progressives of the day would feel like the disenfranchised, the disadvantaged ones. And I think that would really prime them to be a new large cohort coming to Bitcoin as they feel that they've lost some power and are trying to protect themselves. That we might actually be looking at kind of an era of progressive Bitcoiners in the coming years. Particularly, like even I don't want to talk too much about current culture. It definitely seems like things are getting ramped up and super hot. But I was even seeing conservative commentators calling for capital punishment on things like armed robbery.

Starting point is 00:20:24 Right. And that to me just immediately sets off. red flags like that is going to be a terrible escalation and it's i don't want to give the state the power to kill anybody i'm very hesitant to give the state that sort of authority and power and so i feel like again i'm seeing this rise of like okay now that conservatives might be taking over the culture again they might start trying to impose their will a little bit and that this would lead to the next group of bitconers being the progressives who feel like they've they need that defense system crazy idea just want to throw that kind of out to you and the tag onto it i think that's why it's

Starting point is 00:20:54 so important from a Bitcoin adoption standpoint. Again, no matter, like, Bitcoin grows stronger by your worst enemy even adopting it, right? The more people in the network, the better for everyone. We move to that global kind of reserve currency status. So I think it's important that Bitcoiners be ready to potentially welcome these people because they might be very open to it if we see some creeping right-wing authoritarianism. A lot of stuff, thoughts. Yeah, no, lots of thoughts.

Starting point is 00:21:18 I'd say I probably agree with most of that if you take out like kind ofs and the maybes, right? I was trying to soften my position. I know. I think that most definitely, and if you're inside sort of the conservative libertarian Bitcoin bubble, you might not see this, but this is 100% a concern for people out there, right? Like we've elected somebody who, you know, the fear is does not respect the peaceful transition of power. We see people, you know, we see the military on American soil. So like the authoritarianism, like the problems and the worries from, you know, the progressive audience, it certainly is there, right?

Starting point is 00:22:00 And so you have this idea that like you're, I think what you're saying is like Bitcoin is sort of the money for the resistance. It's the money for the people who are in like, you know, have less political power or what have you. So I agree with that. I think that that's one of the messages. I think that, you know, we see already, you know, there's people who need to travel out of state to get health care because their state has outlawed certain health care procedures. They're being tracked and their finances are being tracked. Like Bitcoin is a tool for people to do something that they think they need to do. And there's a lot of other examples, too.

Starting point is 00:22:39 So I feel like that money for the resistance. And certainly is true. That's what Bitcoin is. I think that you make a good point. No matter who's adopting Bitcoin, it's one step closer to sort of this adoption and global reserve currency and hyper Bitcoinization. You need the network

Starting point is 00:22:58 effect if people, if you want Bitcoin to kind of achieve what we're hoping it does, you need people to be using it. And there is no doubt that people outside of the sort of the conservative bubble are viewing what's happening. We don't need to

Starting point is 00:23:14 get into it as much as you want to. get into it. But like they're concerned, right? They're seeing conservatives enforce their will and changing policies and ruling by executive order and all sorts of stuff that like some Bitcoin is like, yay, executive order, you know, but then there's a lot of other things that are really concerning and sort of make people on the left fearful of what's like what's the next step and where are we three years from now, those kinds of things. And I think Bitcoin is the money for the resistance, right? like the rebel cars. So I think that's a perfectly valid way to frame it.

Starting point is 00:23:52 No, beautiful. Yeah, I'm immediately writing to just like Occupy Wall Street and kind of when it first began. Like it just seems like we're just going through that transition and we're going to be coming back the other way. And it would be nice because my view is, and again, it's all self-interested. I just want, I want libertarians to take over and just leave everybody alone, right? That's where I want to be. But I ultimately think that the pendulum swings will continue to escalate until they ultimately stop. And then Bitcoin is the way to actually stop the pendulum swing, to have these.

Starting point is 00:24:16 kind of giant moves and cultures that we can actually go to the position of people just living amongst and doing the kind of going to a state or a city that has the values and the opportunities that they want to see and no longer feeling that they have to impose their will on the other side regardless of what position it is. So yeah, I do think it's really important that the non-progressive Bitcoiners be prepared to get them on our team, get them on team Bitcoin as they start to see problems with the existing system that may not have noticed before when it was. maybe doing things that they agreed with. Gary, do you have any thoughts on that?

Starting point is 00:24:51 Yeah, well, I did want to ask you a question, which isn't necessarily specific to the progressive side of Bitcoin, just Bitcoin in general. You mentioned Bitcoin being kind of rebel money, so to speak. I'm with you on that. And you've seen there are certainly members of the Bitcoin space that are very happy with the idea of government starting a Bitcoin strategic reserve and government buying more or governments around the world buying more

Starting point is 00:25:16 for number go up. And sure, in my Bitcoin wallet, that looks great for me. But on the flip side, I'm like, I thought we did all this to kind of take power away from the state. Where do you fall on that? Yeah, I think that I'm not philosophically opposed to Bitcoin, you know, strategic Bitcoin reserve necessarily. I think that if I were to prioritize the things that I would like government to do in response to Bitcoin, that would be sort of at the bottom. I think that, you know, sort of of protecting your right to own like a non-hosted wallet or mine Bitcoin or transacting Bitcoin, you know, being able to transact in Bitcoin without being a taxable event. These are way more important.

Starting point is 00:25:58 I think for most Bitcoiners, I would imagine, and apart from the number go up. So I feel like it just sort of a, I would just categorize it as a misstep. I think that anybody can buy Bitcoin and invest in it and use it as a resource. So I'm not going to say that the government shouldn't do that. But if I were in a position of power and advising people in the government, I would be advocating for those other things first, way before a strategic Bitcoin Reserve. I think the strategic Bitcoin Reserve is sort of part of the short-term thinking that's happening a little bit with sort of this marriage of politics and Bitcoin that's happening right now. and started maybe during the 2024 election. So, yeah, I mean, it sounds like we're probably in agreement on that.

Starting point is 00:26:52 I don't think that the strategic Bitcoin Reserve is like the number one priority. Obviously, that's what was at least what it seems like was pushed as the number one priority and like the signal that this administration is pro-Bitcoin and all of these things. But, you know, that raises the question, too, of like mixing in all of these other cryptocurrencies and sort of what's being done in the education front to differentiate Bitcoin from the rest of this. And it's really gotten muddier rather than more clear, which is also unfortunate. I mean, Jason, you're talking about being secure in private property, not making Bitcoin spending a taxable event. You're sort of sounding like a libertarian here.

Starting point is 00:27:33 Well, and there's overlap, right? I mean, certainly, the issue that a lot of people have with libertarianism is, you know, I want to speak for everybody. I'll speak for myself, right? Like, how do you deal with, like, the negative externalities as a society? And I feel like you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm somebody else. And the definition of have you harm somebody else? And what does that mean in its most abstract form is really hard to answer? Fair.

Starting point is 00:28:04 I feel like there are places where liberals and progressives are going to overlap with libertarianism. And same thing with conservators. So I feel like you guys have the benefit of saying, hey, you know, how you like legalize marijuana and prostitution and you guys like guns. You know, like you get to do it. You get to have that. Let's do it all. Right. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:28:26 So certainly we're going to find plenty of places where we overlap. I think that I should be able to use Bitcoin, you know, and spend it. as sort of a medium of exchange without being a taxable event. I don't think that I don't know how that works necessarily within the current laws as they're written. So that's why I would say I would be advocating for something like that. And there's plenty of other places where I don't overlap with libertarians. So, you know, but hopefully respectfully so.

Starting point is 00:28:55 Of course. Yeah. Well, you're going to find weird overlap in different places. Like I was just talking with Gary before the show. I technically overlap with communists as well too. Because if I'm not mistaken, end state of communism is a stateless, moneyless class of society. Stateless, I am 100% on board with you guys on that.

Starting point is 00:29:11 Moneyless, but we can get rid of fiat and maybe compromise. And then classless is like, yeah, there's not going to be a political or financial elite taking advantage of other people. So you can find commonality with just about anybody these days if you really try to empathize, take your time and listen to what they have to say. I want to tease apart a little bit more about kind of what's going on maybe with the Democrats right now. Maybe some conversations that you're having.

Starting point is 00:29:32 Kind of a couple different angles. that are sticking out to me. One, that I think that Bitcoin is entering, it will eventually reach the point where like every politician is just pro-Bitcoin. It just becomes like, yes, we're going to lower taxes and have Bitcoin. That's just kind of going to be the standard talking point at some point. I'm wondering if you think that on the perhaps the Democrat side, what the current view of Bitcoin is and where it may be headed, particularly for the next election coming up, because that'll be interesting with no incumbent. And then additionally, if you think that progressives accepting Bitcoin, maybe that being wrapped into their policy positions as well, too,

Starting point is 00:30:02 does it necessitate that it, do you think it's likely to come from a bottom up sort of standpoint, progressives getting into Bitcoin politicians pandering? Or do you think the politicians may find their own kind of game theoretical incentives for why they want to get on board with it and then leading the audience there as well? It's a great question. I think I have my preference about how it would be, which is bottom up, right? I wrote my book for the audience of like the voter, not the politician. And the hope there was to educate a broad swath of progressives about the value of Bitcoin and then have them pressure the politician. That's not how it's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:30:39 So this is like an admission of defeat in terms of like my primary hope for the book that I wrote. But that said, I do think that it is happening. And, you know, I don't necessarily like the fact that it's going to happen from politicians realizing there's no viable choice except to give my Bitcoin. And then educating the populace and the voting population thusly, right? So it's going to be, all right, well, we're in a really competitive swing district. We need to, you know, we need to win this house seat. It's not going to happen from like the bluest of blue congressional districts. It's going to happen from those like borderline swing states.

Starting point is 00:31:20 So how can I, how can I appeal to, you know, more than 50% of the people in this district? And being against Bitcoin in that way is not necessarily. going to work for you. I think that the Democrats as a large organization understand that Bitcoin was part of, you know, their loss in 2024. If you hear Bitcoiners talk, it's like the only reason they lost, it's not. But it's definitely the Democratic Party writ large and the people advising them understand that it was part of and an important part and certainly overlaps with a lot of the reasons that Democrats lost in 2024. So I think that the politicians are shifting not from a sense of being pressured by their core voters,

Starting point is 00:32:06 but by the populace in general and realizing that this is something that's popular. I think that there's plenty of people now with the inclusion of the ETS and the different Bitcoin strategic companies, all of that stuff. It just indicates that if we go after this and make Bitcoin an enemy, then it's going to be a losing battle. So I feel like I think that's unfortunately going to be the direction. Not what I was hoping for, but I guess in the end, it's going to be somewhat of the same result, right? Where you have politicians sort of pandering to the wider audience and then educating progressive voters and saying, yeah, we can't take this other option.

Starting point is 00:32:43 We can't fight Bitcoin. We need to be part of it. And so some of the conversations that I'm saying is exactly that. It's the organizations that support the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party themselves, realize that need new policies on this. They need to understand. They need education. and reaching out to people like me and others to say, well, how can we learn about this? How can we educate our campaign managers?

Starting point is 00:33:06 How can we educate our candidates about this? So when 2026 rolls around in the midterms or even 28 in a presidential year, I think that the general tone from the Democratic Party is going to be way different about Bitcoin. And unfortunately, they're going to lump crypto into it and call it digital assets and all of that. but just like the Republicans have. So I think you're going to see a much different tone, just coming from a space of political necessity. And then once it gets sort of that vetted, approved,

Starting point is 00:33:43 like this is okay for us shine around it, then the everyday voter will come along and try to learn about it. So I think that's kind of the direction I see it happening. That's very interesting. I think it's unfortunate that there probably was a ton of people out there that went like, oh, Trump likes it now? I'll check out Bitcoin, despite the, I know that Walker used this exact example that had somebody in their life that was giving some good information. I have some more questions, but Gary, I'll let you jump in there.

Starting point is 00:34:08 Well, yeah, you know, you mentioned politically how, you know, one side seems to have embraced it or whatever, but even using the term sides is silly because I remember reading somebody saying somewhere, which made a lot of sense to me that in the United States at least, there should probably be about six different political parties, but because we have a two-party system, everybody's kind of lumped to one team or the other. And certainly you could make the case that, you know, Thomas Massey is a very different person from Lindsey Graham. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Ro Khanna is a very different person from Elizabeth Warren. Yeah. You know, and Roe Kna embraces Bitcoin. Elizabeth Warren decidedly does not. Right. Right. Why do you think, at least recently, because I don't think this

Starting point is 00:34:48 was always the case, at least in the initial years of Bitcoin, but why in the last few years, has Bitcoin been much more embraced on the political right to use that crude term as opposed to the political left? Yeah. Well, I think that there's just sort of a more natural overlap between the libertarian sort of political influence, at least within the United States and the conservative political influence. So I think that libertarianism kind of aligns with Bitcoin in this sort of philosophical way. And then conservatives latched on to that. So I'm making a distinction between those two camps.

Starting point is 00:35:25 And I think that ultimately is really easy. It's a blind spot for a lot of Democrats. And I'm speaking about elected officials like Elizabeth Warren. I think that your political intuition is this is money that intersects with the Internet and therefore it's a scam. That is actually a pretty, you know, pretty good algorithm to figure out like that's true. So I'm going to protect people from that. I'm going to make these bad guys. So I feel like there was just sort of a missed up right from the very beginning,

Starting point is 00:35:58 that heuristic of saying, well, this is bad, so I should fight it and protect my constituents. And then as things are, I think there's just a matter of our political discourse as it is now. We have a media that makes everything seem really important. And if the other side is winning, then we're losing. And that's not just like, oh, unfortunate, but it's super existential. like the fate of our country and the fate of the world depends on this. So it's just hard to sort of unravel that once you lock in, right? And so I feel like, you know, that's the simplest answer is that a couple of people on the right figured it out.

Starting point is 00:36:34 A couple of people on the left like followed their gut and decided it was a bad thing. And of course, it's more complicated than that. I think I'll also say that in the last couple of years with Trump's, you know, I made this point to a friend recently say, you know, like if I walked into Mar-a-Lago and said, hey, Trump, you should support Bitcoin and change your stance because we know that he was against Bitcoin previously, and he agreed to it so quickly that you should probably be suspicious. Like, if somebody is willing to just change their mind so quickly and be all in favor and tweet

Starting point is 00:37:14 out what you want to tweet out and go to the conference and say all these things, maybe you should have just a little bit of suspicion, especially if you're sort of overarching like Bitcoin narrative is not the trust politician. So I feel like there was an opportunistic gamble made by some people in the Bitcoin community and people in the Trump organization that was like sort of a perfect marriage. And I feel like, I mean that opportunistic and just a literal sense, right? Like they're just going to say, okay, this is what we can do to get more votes and this is what we can do to get more clout. And so both sides really latched on to it. And I've argued many times. I think that's a short-term thinking. It's not really good for

Starting point is 00:37:57 Bitcoin adoption in the long run. It's not really what we want. But it just was too, too tempting to not go after, I guess, for some people, unfortunately. If I may real quick, Nathan, I just one more question. What do you find is sort of like the reflexive, most common pushback, one or two things that you get from fellow progressives when you suggest Bitcoin. Now it's Trump, right? Like it's 100%. They have like I was saying, like, what's your puristic to decide if something is good or bad? Like if you decide that like something that Trump likes is bad or a scam, then you're going to

Starting point is 00:38:36 be right 99% of the time. So if Trump is into Bitcoin, like, and you already kind of thought before Trump even started with Bitcoin, oh, that seems a little scammy. like there's internet it's not from the government it's the money like if it's that's already your mindset and now donald trump is involved in it and we know it's awesome involved in all these other crypto self-dealing and grifting and things like that um that that's a really powerful like model to have to overcome from my position right so i feel like number one it's it's donald trump now before that um you know it's it's essentially just a misunderstanding it's low information it's like

Starting point is 00:39:16 not understanding that money doesn't have to come from the government or that it doesn't have to be physically in your hand, just like really basic stuff like that, or that it's back for the environment or that it just makes certain people really rich and they don't deserve to be really rich. So those are like the most common things overall. But right now there's no question. It's every single time I thought that Donald Trump liked something and it turned out to be a really bad thing. I was right. And now Bitcoin is the most recent thing, right? So now if you, if you like Donald Trump, then you don't, you don't have that heuristic, you don't have that decision making, but there's, you know, 55% of the country right now is not liking the way Donald

Starting point is 00:39:57 Trump is doing things. So that's pretty common pushback I get. Thanks, Nate. Are you sick at the Fiat-funded fast fashion that falls apart quicker than the dollar? You know, the cheap stuff made to drain your wallet one inferior product at a time. Stop it. There's a better way. Panties for Bitcoin is a family-oriented company built by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners and held to that unbreakable Bitcoin standard. Certified Made in Italy underwear that lasts as long as their metal backups. Guys, grab a couple pairs of those lightning boxers for yourself, the softest, most comfortable, durable pair you'll ever own. And surprise your lady with luxurious panties bras and thongs. No better way to spark those all-too-important Bitcoin conversations and spread adoption than attractive people in their underwear.

Starting point is 00:40:35 Naturally, you can pay with Bitcoin supporting the circular economy and building that parallel system. Simply scan the QR code or click the link in the description. description down below at hand to panties for Bitcoin.com and use promo code BTC sessions to save 10%. Snag yours and share your love for Bitcoin in a new peer-to-peer way. I want to ask kind of almost from like a strategic standpoint, we can dive into a bit more too as well. One, I would think that from the Democrat political party that getting potentially a new donor class, particularly like West Coast kind of progresses that might be into Bitcoin, that might be very beneficial from you just a fundraising standpoint. But I want to ask,

Starting point is 00:41:07 in your opinion, as even necessary in the conversations, do, do, you know, progressives coming to the conversation have to understand the problem with the money first before they're going to be open to it. And going back to kind of the earlier point about the pendulum swinging being the underclass, I would imagine that even still currently progressives have more faith and trust in institutions, which would include like the Federal Reserve and the kind of the monetary system overall, whereas conservatives, for sure libertarians, would not maybe priming them up. So succinctly booked, do we have to educate progressives about the Fed first in order to get them into Bitcoin? Is it a requirement? And

Starting point is 00:41:41 if you have had those kind of conversations, are they open to the problems with the Federal Reserve system and what kind of maybe gets their attention or works? Yeah, I think the short answer is no. And again, just sort of from a teaching education standpoint, right? Like we talk, you know, I teach high school mathematics. I'm teaching calculus. And it's all about keeping people in what they call proximal zone or development. You want them to be uncomfortable, but not too uncomfortable. That way you can grow and learn and you're pushing yourself, but you don't feel like overwhelmed or lost or, you know, it's too far. So if you start a conversation with somebody on the foot of the left, like we have to get rid of the Federal Reserve. That's your opening line,

Starting point is 00:42:25 or if that's sort of your main argument, you've lost them. And maybe a lot of people listening to this, I think don't even realize that. Obviously, I've been into Bitcoin for end years. I've done all the research. I've, you know, read all the books. I know, you know, the preacher from Jackal Island. Obviously, we have to get rid of the Fed. You start that conversation. You're not within somebody's proximal zone of development. It's too far from where they are. Now, if you're willing to talk to them, not about how the money is broken necessarily, but to find things that they see that are wrong with society. And they might not attribute that to the money being broken, but you're able to kind of describe to them the problem and echo back to them.

Starting point is 00:43:09 what their concerns are and how Bitcoin kind of addresses that issue or helps mitigate the problem, that's much more likely to resonate. So I feel like that if you want to talk about, you know, wealth inequality as a problem that a lot of progressives see within our society and is a genuine concern in terms of just the stability of society and having massive wealth inequality being a problem, you can kind of slowly work into the idea that there's a, you know, maybe even without saying Federal Reserve. but the way the money is created and it can't pull on effect and all of these things are contributing to that problem that you already see.

Starting point is 00:43:46 I'm not trying to convince you that there's a problem and then have you agree with it. If you start by saying, oh, we got to get rid of the Fed. Let me tell you why the Fed is a problem. Then you're not going to probably win them over if that makes sense. So I feel like the real strategy is, you know, you mentioned a whole new class of political donors. I think that some of the people I talk to that are high up in the Democratic Party or, advisors to the Democratic Party or think tanks that sort of supply talking points to the Democratic Party are absolutely like, how can you get the money? How can we say the right things so that people donate?

Starting point is 00:44:21 I think that's part of it. I think the much more sort of naive view for me is like, how do we make the world a better place? Right. So you talk about... That's why we're here. Right. So we're here, man. Right.

Starting point is 00:44:33 And it's discouraging. I think it's true for any political party. It's not about Democrats necessarily. But I think you start talking about the pro-social use cases of Bitcoin. Here are the problems that you see in the world. And here's how Bitcoin can help. And if you think that Donald Trump is going to freeze your bank account because you donated to Black Lights Matter and that's now terrorist organization and he's going to crack down, a lot of people are thinking things like that.

Starting point is 00:45:01 And you're not trying to learn about Bitcoin. Yeah, I don't know what to do, right? So I feel like you figure out what are the pinch points, what are the problems that people are saying and you just speak their language in a way that, you know, and again, you might be saying something, you might be saying the exact same sentence that somebody else might be like, oh, he's talking about destroying the Federal Reserve without ever saying it, right? And so I feel like that's probably the way you got to go without doing it. You give them enough to understand that you get their problems and you're proposing a solution without giving them everything. So it would be too

Starting point is 00:45:36 overwhelming or they would just knee-jerk fight against it. Two things quick. And then, Gary, I'll let you jump in. One, I'm curious because I'm sure you would have talked about like the human rights foundation in some of your conversations too. I'm wondering if you find that that actually is effective and resonating. The concern I always have with using those examples is that if it's too far removed, like those people over there, even though they might empathize, it doesn't really,

Starting point is 00:45:56 it doesn't land in a visceral way, like a threat to yourself, like your account being shut down. So I'm just curious how those kind of conversations go. And then additionally, if you were advising these democratic strategists, on the best way to communicate to both kind of like to put out a Bitcoin message and maybe to communicate to Bitcoiners, what areas do you think that they should lean into? Is it targeting specific influencers,

Starting point is 00:46:17 maybe in the progressive space and trying to educate them about Bitcoin? Or is there certain things, do you think, like, guys, if you roll with this, I think it'll work? Yeah. So I'll answer the first question, or the second question first, which is, I think that at a very basic level of Democrats, are just starting out, right? They have shown interest. they've shown a desire, they've shown, like, they understand the need to get into Bitcoin,

Starting point is 00:46:42 and it's literally just like, like, how can I get a talking point that's actually correct? Like, how do I use a vocabulary about Bitcoin or something like that? And so, like, it would be amazing if we can get a few, like, very high-profile Bitcoin progressive influencers to actually, like, just even consider Bitcoin in a serious way, not as a joke. I think we're going to get there eventually, but it just seems like we're going to up hill. I think the messaging for me has always been, you know, we want to see, you know, policies and laws put into place that that lets everyday Americans benefit from the use of Bitcoin, not just the Trump family, right? I think that that you drive home the point that

Starting point is 00:47:26 there's really good, useful, important ways to use Bitcoin and understand it, and that Donald Trump, who, you know, you all hate, is not doing those things, right? So you don't throw the baby out with the bat water and say because he likes Bitcoin, now you're allowed to hate it. It's what are the positive pro-social use cases of Bitcoin? What are the good things that people can do for everyday working people? And then just contrast that. If you feel like you need to contrast that with what Donald Trump is doing,

Starting point is 00:47:57 which is not necessarily aligned with the ethos of Bitcoin, at least certainly not 100%. So I feel like that's the messaging that takes. place, and I forgot your first question. Oh, if, if, like, the stories of the Human Rights Foundation, if you find those actually impactful or if they're too far removed from like an American audience, more or less? No, I think that, you know, if I'm perfectly honest, I think that those are impactful and resonate.

Starting point is 00:48:23 I think, you know, offering up Alex Spadsteen's check your financial privilege is a really good starting point. I think that that will resonate with some people, not all. I think that there's a lot of people on the left who, even if they don't truly deeply believe in like these human rights causes across the globe, feel like they at least need to play lip service to it. So it's a really cynical view, but I feel like that's true, right? And that's not unique to Democrats or liberals. So that's true for everybody. So I feel like if you could at least in some cases, not all cases, guilt them into saying, well, you know, listen, your money works.

Starting point is 00:49:02 you're an American, like your debit card is working. It's not being checked down or compensated. Then, you know, but these other people are not, don't have that privilege. That really speaks their language too. But it's also increasingly true that there's people on the left within the United States who are fearing that, you know, we're slipping into authoritarian rule and like we're under threat and whether or not where we are on that, on that path could be up to debate. But I think that there's a mirror argument to be made to say, okay, well, there's dictators all over the world that are freezing bank accounts, complicating funds, taking away funding for their political opposition and controlling the populace with the financial system.

Starting point is 00:49:45 And do you think that we're immune from that here? And I think that would resonate with a lot of people right about now. Yeah. No, 100%. From a strategic standpoint, do you know, we acknowledge right now that the political, right as kind of crude as that term is, sort of has, you know, the, the Bitcoin crowd right now on their side. Do you believe that there is any issue that the left could take advantage of to kind of outflank the right? Now, you know, I mean, I would suggest you mentioned earlier, not having

Starting point is 00:50:19 Bitcoin transfers and spending be taxable events, but then we're talking like eliminating the capital gains tax. And that doesn't strike me as something left to be on board with. But is, Is there something that you would see it? And if you haven't given any thought, that's fine, where the left say, aha, the right has missed this, we'll get the Bitcoin crowd with this. Yeah, I think I do think there's an answer to that question. I just think it's very unlikely that they'd be able to do it.

Starting point is 00:50:43 So I feel like the right answer to that is to be that the political part of it's Bitcoin only and to realize that we don't need all of these other like crypto currencies and digital assets and all of those things, right? So I feel like that's the way you went over the Bitcoin. crowd, they're not able to do that. Just from a practical political standpoint, right? You talk about money. There's not a ton of money flowing into like any political organization from Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:51:10 It's like crypto, right? And so I feel like that's the way you could really win over like the Bitcoin voters say, hey, we understand the value of Bitcoin. We're not going to like necessarily stop crypto from happening, but we're not going to like value it in the same way that these Republicans are. You highlight that difference. So I feel like that's what you should do, and that's what I've been advocating for. And, of course, people will chuckle at me or dismiss me.

Starting point is 00:51:36 And so once you get involved with, like, the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, you have to kind of speak the language that they're willing to speak. And that's, like, digital assets. It's not Bitcoin. And every comment that I say, like, the word digital assets, like a part of my soul dies a little bit. You know, but essentially it's either that or you just don't have the conversation, right? So which one's better? It's,

Starting point is 00:51:59 that's where we are right now. So I feel like that's how you do it. I think that from a more practical, like what's possible standpoint, is that you could, you highlight the grip and the self-dealing and the scams of the crypto and the Trump and all of this stuff mixed up. And if that's, if your political motive is to like get people who are upset at Trump to vote for you,

Starting point is 00:52:23 then you just distinguish say, hey, Bitcoin isn't like that. You know, Trump is doing. doing it wrong and they had that conversation, I think, a little bit easier, but you're not going to do it in a way that says, hey, you know, we're like XRP is a scam and we're just going to focus on Bitcoin. That's not going to be able to do it. So I feel like that's the messaging in terms of strategy. And ultimately, I don't think that, you know, just to be clear, like, I don't

Starting point is 00:52:47 think that Bitcoin should be only one side or the other. I don't think that we should outflank and, like, get all of the Bitcoins for it. I just think it should just be a non-thing, right? I, I, I just think that it should be, like you're saying before, yeah, we're going to lower taxes and Bitcoin's good, right? Like, they're just going to be sort of the standard routine for all politicians. I think that's the goal. It's just really hard to imagine what that's how we get there based on sort of the polarization that we currently have.

Starting point is 00:53:16 I want to see everybody fighting for my love. I want all the politicians fighting for my attention in love. This is wonderful. Yeah, yeah. I did just want to quickly edit that because the idea popped into my mind. I don't know if it would fit with a progressive worldview too, but I wonder if there's even opportunity in something like the Samurai Devs case to be the ones to go hard on basically code is freedom of speech and not going after developers.

Starting point is 00:53:38 If that sort of our privacy tools, I'm not sure if privacy tools align with the progressive worldview in such a way that they could try and take that position to get in front and kind of hold up a mirror to Trump for what he did to turn out of cash in Samurai Devs. I think that the privacy vantage point or like the Code of Speech vantage point is really poignant if you're the group that's not in power. And so I feel like that speaks to your previous point. I don't think Democrats are like Democrats as a political organization are like,

Starting point is 00:54:06 yeah, code to speech, privacy, when they're the ones in power, right? So I feel right now the Democrats are definitely on the ropes. You know, they're licking their wounds. They're figuring out what went wrong. And then you say, yeah, well, we need privacy because, you know, who knows if we want to sort of put up a good resistance towards what Trump is trying to do or what the Republicans are trying to do. We need to be able to transact and communicate and have that privacy. I think that's more like, yeah, Democrats would be on board because they're not the ones in power right now.

Starting point is 00:54:39 So that might be that might resonate too. Very cool. Very cool. Gary, do you believe that it's merely just a matter of time before, you know, fellow progressives kind of get on board of Bitcoin? or do you believe that affirmative action, not in the way we think of it, do you believe that affirmative steps have to be taken by fellow progressives to try to teach them and convince them? I think, though, the answer to that

Starting point is 00:55:05 depends on your timeline, right? Like, eventually everybody, like, it's not going to be Bitcoiners, it's just be called people, right? Eventually. Yes. And so I feel like that's, I truly believe that. But like if we're trying to talk about,

Starting point is 00:55:20 like within my lifetime. What kind of progress are we going to see? I think that affirmative steps do need to be taken to educate. Now, like we said before, that looks like it's going to probably be coming from sort of the political class and saying like, oh, it's not that bad. Like, it's actually, this is good about it, as opposed to the bottom up, which is what I would have preferred.

Starting point is 00:55:41 But I do think that that's going to happen and it's going to have to happen if we're going to see sort of like substantial movement from the people on the left side of the political. spectrum about Bitcoin, like in the next 10, 15, 20 years, right? So I don't think that, you know, my goal in writing the book was to write a book like a progressive case for Bitcoin. Like, you're in a big, like you're a progressive person. You're kind of curious about Bitcoin. We keep hearing about it. You want to learn about it. Like now there's a resource that will speak your language. That was written for like the class of 2025, right? Like aspirationally, like as we kind of think about

Starting point is 00:56:18 the four year cycles and how it's, you know, adoption grows. That was my hope. So I feel like it's possible. We have a lot of advocacy, you know, happening with, you know, not just my book, but there's other progressive people in the Bitcoin space. You know, the progressive Bitcoiner is a, is a nonprofit organization that started this year who's just providing like educational resources to voters, constituents, politicians, you know, it's a, it's a nonprofit organization that's actually trying to do that proactive, reach out, educating. Here's a resource. It seems like you're curious, watch this video, here's a book, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know,

Starting point is 00:56:59 hopefully that just sort of continues to gain traction as I think it is. I think that it's really hard for people to dismiss Bitcoin. It's like a silly idea now compared to five, 10 years ago. So as we continue to go and like people just don't feel it, it's like a punchline. They're going to be curious and they want to learn, we're just making sure that the resources to actually learn in a language that speaks to those people exist and are ready for them. I'm kind of curious, sorry, just jumping away. For the progressive Bitcoin as nonprofit, what kind of resources are they offering up? Is it like education workshops?

Starting point is 00:57:35 I'm kind of curious how they're, especially doing Bitcoin education myself, how they're getting into the weeds and doing it and where they're how they're, would just say, targeting their audience. And then I also want to ask too, speaking, going back to the progressives case for Bitcoin, Do you have any updates coming out to the book or maybe a second one maybe in the works? Or how is that or is it kind of finished product for now? So the progressive bit coiner is, you know, like I said, they were just incorporated as a nonprofit this year in 2025. And, you know, they're in the process of trying to get funding and people can donate if they want.

Starting point is 00:58:07 They can find the website. Can they donate in sets? Yes, they can. Absolutely. Or full Bitcoin if you want. that's so magnanimous of you. Right. I mean,

Starting point is 00:58:19 I just want people that have options. So they're out there providing articles that speak to specific pro-social use cases, things that align with progressive values for Bitcoin. They're providing videos. They're providing, you know, they had for a long time, even before it was incorporated as a nonprofit, a podcast where you have long-form conversations.

Starting point is 00:58:39 They're speaking to not, in a way that's compliant with nonprofit, regulations. They're speaking to interest of political constituents and consultants and things like that to educate people about Bitcoin too. So there's a lot of different resources out there. Available, you know, one page risk. Here's what you need to know about Bitcoin from environmental standpoint or from an authoritarian standpoint. So they're doing all of that good work and more. I think that they're limited by sort of funding right now. I think that, you know, everyone who works for or is like part of the board, I'm part of the board. has a day job, right? So there's no like full-time, you know, employee of the progressive

Starting point is 00:59:20 Bitcoiner yet. Maybe that will be an aspiration so we can keep putting out that content. As for the book, we progress as a case for Bitcoin. This fall is going to be, we're going to release the second updated edition. So there's going to be updates to the text in terms of statistics and use cases and just the most current up-to-date things so that politicians and voters have access to what's accurate and current. As well, as sort of a whole treatment of the political landscape as it currently lives, right? So I think that for a lot of progressive people who we were mentioning are turned off by the fact that Trump is into Bitcoin, it's a really important to have an explanation about why Trump

Starting point is 00:59:59 doesn't speak for Bitcoin. And here are the progressive values that Bitcoin aligns with, independent of which political, you know, which politician is supporting it. So you should expect next month a new edition of that book out. And so we're, I'm really excited about that. Bitcoin Magazine has been great to work with in terms of that. I think that it's been an interesting collaboration, just getting an educational resource out there for people. And they were excited for me to write and then release a new edition of that book.

Starting point is 01:00:31 That's wonderful, Gary. I mean, I would love to take more of your time, but that seems like a nice place to finish with your book promotion. Yeah, buy the book. Yeah. Where can people find you on social media? So I'm on Twitter. I see Jason Mayer.

Starting point is 01:00:48 The website from my book is Bitcoinprogressive.com. And my DMs are open. There's a way to contact me through my website for anybody who has questions or anything like that. So yeah, I'm happy to always engage with people who are reaching out in good faith. I want to learn more about either Bitcoin or how to talk to progressive people of that Bitcoin. Always welcome to that conversation. you. Yes, you watching the Bitcoin price movements and the latest exciting news. It's awesome to stay informed, but the real power of Bitcoin comes from taking control. Don't just watch,

Starting point is 01:01:26 take action. Head over to btcsessions.ca slash learn for free step-by-step tutorials that guide you through every major skill you need to know, plus full video playlist for deeper dives on any topic you like. And if you're ready for the ultimate fast track, scroll to the bottom and check out Bitcoin Mentor.io for premium one-on-one experience with my team of Bitcoin experts to ensure you get it right the first time. Don't wait. Secure your Bitcoin future today. Hit the link in the show notes or scan the QR code on the screen. If you enjoyed this episode with Jason, please do like and subscribe and check out the previous episode with Walker from The Bitcoin podcast on Starting.

Starting point is 01:02:11 Bitcoin podcast.

BTC Sessions - United In Bitcoin, Divided in Fiat: Why Progressives Need Bitcoin Now | Jason Maier

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.