BTC Sessions - URGENT: This Is So Bad… 99% Are ASLEEP | Matt Odell, American Hodl, Madex

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Ben Perrin with guests Matt Odell, American Hodl and Madex sound the alarm on something almost no one is paying attention to. While 99% of people stay asleep, the system is quietly shifting—and the consequences could be massive. If you’re not preparing, you’re already behind.FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS:https://x.com/americanhodl8https://x.com/[e-mail] BTC SESSIONS on X/Nostr: x.com/[e-mail] private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL - BUY BITCOINhttps://qrco.de/bfiDC6COINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://qrco.de/bfiDBVAQUA WALLEThttps://qrco.de/bfiD8gNUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://qrco.de/bfiDARHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://qrco.de/bfiDCp#btc #bitcoin #crypto

They are coming for you. Your freedom, your privacy, your way of life. Governments and tech giants are constantly tightening the screws. And the question is, how do you fight back? The UK Prime Minister is pushing a digital ID scheme. In Canada, they're forcing a gun buyback program. And fun fact, the government is now responsible for one in 20 Canadian deaths each year. I'll detail that in a moment.

Google is cracking down, controlling what you can install on your own hardware. And we're reaching some new levels in clown world here north of the border, where 400 ostriches in Canada are on the chopping blog. And we'll chat a little bit about the details of that. So we all know that Bitcoin is Freedom Tech. There are some other tools out there as well. Some interesting ones just dropped this week, which we'll discuss. And what do we need to know about?

Will they be enough to push back against all types of government overreach, or are we just a short step away from losing control? What can you do today to protect your sovereignty? We've got an awesome lineup today to talk about this and plenty more things. We've got Matt O'Dell, influencer extraordinaire, managing partner at 1031 and co-founder of OpenSats. We've got Madex, prolific creator of original artwork and regalia, some of which I am sporting at this moment.

And then American Hoddle, some guy who owns 6.15 Bitcoin. Stick around, drop a like. That's going to be an excellent show. I'm Ben with the BTC sessions. This is Why Are We Bullish? All right, I want to welcome to the stage, American Hoddle, Matt Odell, Madex.

Gentlemen, how you doing? Good, man. Good to be here. Awesome. Yeah. Matt, you're looking slick. I'm enjoying the trim. It's looking nice.

It's time to clean it up. Yeah, yeah. Lock in. I mean, you look serious. It looks like you're ready to go. So, yeah, glad to have you. Madex, good to see you, man. Thank you, man.

Yeah, good to see you as well. Awesome. Well, let's dive in. I kind of wanted to cede the beginning of the conversation with some of the, you know, there's always draconian bullshit going on. But I figured I'd highlight a few things and then just kind of prompt you guys in regards to how do we better prepare ourselves

for crap like this? Is there any preparing ourselves? So I'll bring up a few of the things I was talking about. So, I mean, we've got in the UK, there's the digital ID thing, Keith Stommer.

It's under the guise of illegal immigration, but like we all know it'll be used for much, much more than that. In Canada, I mentioned there's this gun buyback program. The actual safety minister that's in charge of it was recorded unbeknownst to him criticizing it, saying that he would have done it completely differently and he thinks it's a bad idea. But it's going forward.

So, yeah, they're going to force Canadians to give back guns and buy them back. We can have guns up here, but very specific ones and it's a lot different than the U.S. And soon less guns. Of course, this has been known for a little bit. here, Google is apparently starting to crack down on side loading. People building apps will have to identify themselves, all of that. So it might be a good idea to check out something like graphene. There's a couple of the things I wanted to touch on here. The Maid thing, this was the Canadian 1 in 20. This is fun. The Maid program is medical assistance in dying. This is

a fun program that we have here north of the border. But basically, if you want to die for a variety of reasons, one, being terminally ill, which I may understand, but others are like, I'm sad. I'm depressed. And so in 2023, the new stat out, 4.7% of Canadians who died in as a whole, of all Canadians that died in 2023, 5% were through made. So one in 20 people were killed literally by the government. Now, outside of that, I did want to show this thing from, where was it?

And I may have lost it. Here we go. Here we go. I'll share here. So this is Ursula from the EU here. She's talking to a European Parliament about the EU. about the EU democracy shield, which is basically like a ministry of truth.

But I just wanted to play because it's fun listening to some of the crowd jeer her, but it's more jarring listening to the people cheering on what she's saying. So let's just take a quick question here. And honorable members, the rise in information manipulation and disinformation, as we hear, is dividing our societies. It is not only eroding trust in,

the truth, but also in democracy itself. This is why we urgently need the European democracy shield. We need more capacity to monitor and detect information manipulation and disinformation. So we will set up a new European Centre for Democratic Resilience. This will bring together the expertise and capacity of member states and neighboring countries. You obviously are fearing this new center. So you get the point there. And the last little story I wanted to seed, which is why there's an ostrich blocking my picture on the thumbnail, is this ridiculous Canadian story that has been all over the news

lately is this ostrich farm in BC, the province next to mine. And so the story here, as silly as it is, it is just another example of government oversight. Basically last year, late last year, there's this ostrich farm that is being used for medical research. And a number of the birds got sick. There was avian flu going around. The birds that were sick with that were called. There was 60 something of them. There remain 400 ostriches on this farm that are all now a year or more later, perfectly healthy.

But because the order from the government was to go and kill every single. ostrich on this farm and was delayed it was given a stay for a while but they sent rcmp officers there just a couple days ago and and they were starting to like they arrested the people who owned the farm and you know we're arresting protesters and people like this and they created a giant ring of hay bales to like hide what they were doing as they were going to basically gun down all the birds uh and so So there is a last minute stay granted by the Supreme Court just today to buy some time. But basically the government wants to go and ruin this family's livelihood and just murder 400 ostriches because of bureaucracy, despite, you know, despite them all being completely fine now.

And so my question to you guys, I know there's a lot there. I just had a whole, there's never a shortage of bullshit going on. First off, Hoddle, how would you save the ostriches? I think, yeah, man, I mean, armed resistance. We don't have that here, though. They do this stupid shit. The Biden administration did this where they killed a bunch of chickens that didn't need to be killed. And I don't really understand the thinking.

It's just like, yeah, some birds got sick, so let's napalm the whole area from the sky. Like, it doesn't really make sense to me. But because the ostrich is, you know, normally I don't care about birds because birds are kind of like, you know, cunty dinosaurs that are left over from a prior era. And they just, they are annoying and they're dirty. But because the ostrich is kind of the unofficial mascot of Nostor, maybe we should like band together and do a zapathon to save these guys. That would be a great idea. That's what's coming to mind anyway. I like it.

I mean, and so in the greater scheme of things, though, you know, we know, we know, like, Again, Bitcoins are freedom money, but what other tools are at our disposal? Like this EU draconian kind of, you know, Ministry of Truth type stuff, I, does having something like Noster save even the individuals that are able to freely discuss things? or is society just so plugged into the stream of state sponsored news that it doesn't really hold much weight? Odell, I'm curious your thoughts here. I mean, I think there's two pieces here, and we saw it in the more extreme with Brazil earlier this year or late last year, where they went after X. And then you couldn't access X for a bit in the country. Then they also went after the influencers that were posting on X and they made it illegal for them to post on X.

Then they went after Starlink and went after Starlink's bank accounts. And eventually, Elon ended up complying and then everything got restored. But the reason I bring that up is because there's two pieces here, right? So there's the technical piece, which I think Noster provides a really interesting tool set for, which is you have censorship resistant, verifiable, non-centralized communication. So you don't have to rely on a company or whatnot to give you permission for speech, right? Which solves a lot of the problems we saw during the COVID era, for instance. You know, YouTube just came out and admitted that they censored a ton of stuff.

And it was because it was a centralized company that got pressured by the government to do it, right? But that second piece, Brazil actually going after the influencers and saying, if you post, we will fine you and seize money from your bank accounts and make your life living hell. Obviously, that isn't solved on a technical level. Now, of course, you can post on Noster or elsewhere with a NIM, and that provides some level of protection. But, and in that situation, something like Noster is cool because it's permissionless and you're able to basically build a reputation around that NIM, right? If you use that NIM for five years, six years, seven years and someone that people trust, even if they don't know your government name, then you get a lot of the benefits of like a trusted public figure. that is relatively resistant from government pressure.

But that said, all that said, depending on who your government is and how sophisticated they are, it's really difficult to be private on the Internet, right? And if it's the U.S. government, if it's the Russians, if it's the Chinese, if it's the Israelis, they can probably figure out who you are. If you make one fuck up, they're going to figure out who you are. And Noster does not solve that. Like, we need a cultural revolution in the non. commie sense to prevent that from happening yeah speaking of that look what just happened in nepal because

social media censorship was at the core of the story of the nepalese revolution and basically you know they had my understanding of the stories they had taken away social media from the youth and then the youth started to riot and then they reinstated social media in an effort to quell the riots and then the youth was like fuck that and then they just kept going until you know people were killed and then they had a discord vote for who was going to be the new prime minister of Nepal. So literally, the Gen Zs in Nepal voted on discord for who was going to be the new prime minister. So, I mean, that is like a crazy escalation from even what the Arab Spring was. And, you know, I don't know, man.

People are so dependent on these social media algorithms that like the outright censorship thing, that they can't do that because it'll cause a revolt, right? but like the thing where they get you to self-censor, you know, I'm one of my lights when I, the thing where they get you to self-censor, I think that's like the most effective way to do it. And that's the most insidious way. Like especially when you're in the UK, France, Germany, etc. Like people have lost free speech to such a degree that I don't even think they know

how non-free they are. I make this point off into British friends. Like British sarcasm is actually a result of not having free speech because you need the ability to say, no, mate, that was just taking the piss when you said something negatively about the crown or about parliament, right? I was just taking the piss, mate. Socasm, mate. It's a shield. It's a shield. But you can't see that when you're British because that's the dogma of your life. And you just think, no, us Brits, we're just all cultural and sarcastic. That's how we are. So it's this very deep self-censorship that you like can't even understand how much speech you don't

have when you live in a world of no free speech. As Americans, we're a lot more sensitive to it, but I think Europe has a much harder time because they really have never had free speech. And now they're getting, you know, it's crazy. You get put in jail for a Facebook. Yeah, the sarcasm is illegal now. That's how they got around that loophole. Exactly.

The jokes are illegal. UK is crazy right now. Like some of the, I saw, what was it? They were trying to arrest like an 11-year-old boy for having a British, flag around his shoulders with his mother as a former protest. Like it's, it's getting to a level there where I, I don't understand how, how, again, I guess it's just like the frog and the boiling pot scenario where people just let it go.

I think they're trying to push, I think they're trying to push us to break to snap. They're trying to push people to the very edge. And what they want most is somebody to break. and specifically break into violence because then they have all the justification they need to just fully exterminate us once and for all. So I think it's all just pressure, building, building.

They just push it further and further and further and further. And they want somebody somewhere to break. They want a group to break. And they want that excuse to just come in and finish everything. They've been slowly working away at, for the last 50 years. They just want to clear us all out, you know, in a matter of months.

And so it's like poking the bear and over and over and over and over and over again. Like eventually something's going to happen. And I hope that on our end, and I say our as in free men, that we're able to strategically organize and be precise far before that break happens. I think it's a push to accelerate things by having people act out of emotion instead of, like, calculated resistance. I do wonder how Canada is going to fare moving forward, because, again, voting harder turned out to get us more of the same. surprise surprise uh so that so that didn't work out and uh you know of anywhere in in canada alberta gives me the most hope but like i don't know the cities i don't think that they're

going to vote in their best uh self-interest so it's going to be a rough one uh man i did find that that google admits uh censorship thing here uh yeah it's incredibly fucked up yeah yeah so they basically said they had uh where was it uh commits to offer all creators previously kicked off youtube due to political speech violations on topics such as covid and elections an opportunity to return uh so they said that they admitted the biden administration pressured google to censor americans and remove content that did not violate their policies uh the the censorship pressure was unacceptable and wrong um again they also said that that public debate should never come at the expense of relying authorities.

A company will never use third-party fact-checkers. Oh, Europe's censorship laws target American companies and threaten American speech, including the removal of lawful content. I mean, a lot of this. That's a very nice letter, but where's the compensation for the careers destroyed, the creativity destroyed, the lives destroyed, the financial destruction? Like, oh, yeah, we're sorry. They're just going to do it again.

Yeah. Well, two pieces here. Oh, go ahead, man. I mean, first of all, Canada's fucked. Like, whether you're human or an ostrich, you should probably consider moving. And then second of all, my guess is, so Europe's coming in heavy-handed with all these laws, right? And Google, you know, they went, they kissed the ring of Trump. They were like, please, Daddy, protect us. And he was like, okay, you have to admit that Biden pressured you and issue the letter and revoked the policy.

And that's probably what happened. Well, they don't really, they're not sorry. It's a result of Jim Jordan. It's a result of Jim Jordan subpoena and investigation, but I think Matt's, you know, probably right about what happened behind the scenes there. And at the same time, it's like, is this a revelation to anybody? No. This was obvious that this was happening. All of us were screaming about it until we were blue in the face.

And people were gaslighting us and telling us that it wasn't occurring. And we were crazy and blah, blah. And it's like, enough, man. Enough. You know, I'm sick of it. Like, as an American especially, you should be incensed when anybody, you know, lately the left got all apoplectic about Jimmy Kimmel's light suspension from ABC. And it's like, okay, fine, I'm with you.

Free speech is my number one core principle. But where were you when meta and Google and all of big tech in unison was censoring every conservative, by the millions, conservative voices by the millions, which was creating deleterious downstream harm in our society for decades to come via a COVID policy. I mean, that was a huge test of your principle, your free speech principle, which you claim to have, and you failed, right? And so, fine, you failed. Like, let's get back on track and, like, going forward, you claim to have this principle. You're very upset about Jimmy Kimmel. Good. Stay on that principled train. And anytime you see censorship of free speech anywhere in the

world, call it out. Do you know what's happening in Europe? It's so Orwellian, it would make your head spin, you know? But nobody does. They have their hand, like an ostrich, they have their fucking head in the side. Nice. I think, I mean, okay, so then what are the tools that we have at our disposal in general to be as self-sovereign as we can? What, you know, we have Bitcoin. We have Noster.

Is there anything that you've seen out there that you've seen in kind of the freedom tech realm that gives somebody a bit of a leg up, helps them in in some way, shape, perform. What are some best practices? What are some things people can do? Yeah, I mean, I think, listen, we could talk about the tools a lot and like we do talk about the tools a lot. But at the end of the day, like, this is deeply political and you're going to have to risk something. You're going to have to stand up. You're going to have to say something. You can't run away and hide and live with your cold card in a mountain, you know, in the woods. Like, it just doesn't work that way. There's nowhere on earth this can't touch you. This will touch you everywhere. The surveillance binopticon has

already been built and it's widespread and it's global. So like, you got to stand the fuck up and say no more of this bullshit. Odell looked unconvinced on the woods point there. I mean, you probably, I mean, it depends on what your goal is. Like, you probably could just be pretty quiet, live in the woods with your cold card and live like a pretty good life. Now your children will grow up in a fucking dystopia. So you have to weigh that.

So you got to do something. A tool that we don't talk about very often that I think is, really important is your neighbors and your community and the people on the same street as you and the people in the same building as you. And I think that this is something that is wildly under leveraged, especially because, you know, as Bitcoiners, it's very difficult to spend extended periods of time around Normies. But also, we all ourselves started as Normies as well. So there has to be a little bit of compassion there. But I think that the architectures of our local communities are extremely worth investing in and extremely important.

I think it's important to get off the phone and go walk down the street and meet your neighbors, knock on some doors, join some local clubs. Like just get involved with the community because that is really all we have and all we can trust are the people that kind of are around us. And as we can see, everything is escalating, escalating, escalating. It's probably going to get crazier and crazier. And you cannot unite with our global community of international bitcoins in a moment of chaos or just in support of your family and yourself. The support system has to come from your local community. So let's try and like get first red pill your local normie. and then maybe later Orange Pill him,

just ease them in slowly and start getting some new people who have vision that we can actually win against these people. We can actually defeat this Goliath and be at the very least a signal broadcast of hope. If your neighbors were the type that spent most of 2020 and 2021

calling the authorities on you every time you had friend over, then find some new neighbors. Then you should move. Yeah, time to move. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, Jens, I'm going to, I'll put a ball on this one, but I do want to rotate into kind of the main reason we're here is,

despite all the dystopian bullshit, there's always a reason to be bullish, I would hope, anyways. And so I'm here to find out why you guys are currently bullish, what you're excited about. in around, I mean, I guess Bitcoin and anything tangential to it. And I guess I'm going to start with Haudle. And Hoddle, why are you bullish? What's top of mind for you?

Why am I bullish? Well, I've been in a week. Like a week and a half now. So like, I wouldn't say I'm riding high at the moment. But like, you know, I think the reason I'm perpetually optimistic, you know, and I am always optimistic. is that I just think that the human spirit wins out, that freedom wins out, that Bitcoin is something that cannot be corrupted or destroyed, that we have a shot here, that we have a third way

politically, that we can sort of thread the needle between far left communism and far right national socialism, which I see increasing, like in scope and scale. on both sides. And it seems like in America, we're in this sort of like race to Hitler where everybody wants a dictator, you know, in order to inflict damage on the other side that they don't agree with and gift them infinite largesse from the public treasury. And I think, you know, Bitcoin is this movement of optimism that just says, like, you can have a good life.

You can be prosperous. You know, you can have a family. You can have things that matter to you. You can retire with dignity. you can own your time. And all you have to do is saving this little orange coin, the string of numbers and letters, right? And it's kind of a revolutionary thing,

but it affected all of us very deeply when we first got here and I think has changed our outlook significantly on who we're going to be and what we're going to do in our life and how things are going to go. And when I get, you know, during COVID, we were in a room full of Bitcoiners at Bitploc boom in Dallas. And like the world was on fire.

And it was just calamity. and everybody was depressed and angry and race riots and all this shit. And I got with the bitcoinsers and I just felt joy and optimism and hope and laughter. And like it was so great to just be around other people who had a positive vision for their future. They actually could see into the future and they could see that things were going to be better for them. That's actually really hard to find almost everywhere in society. The only place I find it is in Christian circles and Bitcoin circles. And those people seem to have an optimism about the future, where they're headed, what life's purposes.

There seems to be a mission that accompanies the suffering. Like the suffering has meaning and purpose. And so, yeah, man, it's just Bitcoin. I'm bullish on Bitcoin in general. Not any specific thing, just the fact that Bitcoin exists. I mean, I'd echo that. Like, just I think you're, again, kind of Christian. slash Bitcoinser quality of life thing is pretty on nail on the head or hitting the nail on the head here.

There's and one indication is just the degree to which Bitcoiners are popping out babies, right? Like this, the main people that I know that are popping out babies that aren't just nihilistic. Why would I bring a child into this world kind of thing are the Christian people that? I know and all of the Bitcoin like so many but I mean the you you see it all the time and my wife is in like a Bitcoin or mom's group and there are so many more Bitcoin babies being birthed right now than even are known about in social circles online it's just everybody's uh pretty busy right now we'll say but I mean it's it's super bullish because it down the line, those kids are hopefully going to grow up with some decent morals, grow up in a good household where they have what they need, but they also learn some valuable life lessons.

And hopefully that shifts things for the next generation where things are looking a little bit brighter. But I don't know. I want to get O'Dell and Maidex, your takes on what Hodel had to say there. Madex? Yeah, I mean, it's, you can just make your life better with one simple trick. And, you know, I had an interesting comment from a rancher that I supplies some steak for me. And he was saying, you know, the most amazing thing about Bitcoin is that even if I fucked up my whole stack today and I lost everything, if I just started saving again tomorrow and worked hard for another eight years, I'd be right back in the same position I am now. And I don't think that

there's any other, that there's nothing in Fiat world where you can, you could get wrecked so badly and be able to have 100% certainty that you could make a return. And I think that is just obviously great. And it does, we are very confident in what's happening because, you know, We've been right over and over and over again for so long. And yeah, that's just extremely exciting. And creating more bit corners is definitely important. I mean, that's one of the most common things I see with Normies is that they don't want to bring kids into the world because they see only the dark side of it.

And then it's like, hey, well, you can, with one simple trick, you can see the light of the world and also become very wealthy. And I recommend that you all do that. O'Dell? I mean, I think very well said across the board, you know, I'm extremely bullish on Bitcoin or families. I think when we're having this conversation, first of all, it's very easy to get disenfranchised with the state of the world. I think it's important to frame what success looks like. I think for better or for worse, at least in the short to medium term, the masses are more or less fucked.

So the focus should be on the few like the ride or die. And that cohort of Bitcorners has never been stronger. There's never been more of us. There's never been people that are more passionate, more focused, constantly just shipping improvements to the world, whether that's at the family level, the community level, the tool level. I mean, no matter how you cut it, I mean, Hottle mentioned BitBlock boom. COVID edition, which was, I believe, 2020.

Yeah. It was like August 2020 when they said people were dying in the streets in Texas. That conference was lit. Nobody died. I definitely got COVID. Yeah, everybody got COVID for sure. No, no, the 20, the 2021 one was when we all got COVID. Because we were cocky at that point.

The 2021, we were also cocky, but we just dodged bullet or whatever. We just got lucky. But 2021, it was like 80% hit rate at the 2021 conference because there's no hit rate on the first one. But anyway, besides that, five years go by. And we're sitting here today, basically five years from that BitBlock boom. And it's really hard to imagine a better timeline, Bitcoin specifically, of where Bitcoin's at, where the Bitcoin community is at, where the Bitcoin tools are at. I, sessions, I linked a primal note for you in the chat. Do you see that?

Yeah. Let me. So there was a thing that went viral about median U.S. income denominated in gold terms from, like, way back when, right? And it was just showing, like, you know, what they took from us, that they basically inflated away the currency, which sent me down a Bitcoin rabbit hole. And obviously, Bitcoin hasn't been around as long. But I did the same calculation in Bitcoin terms over the last 12 years because those early years of, Bitcoin kind of were just the numbers are absolutely ridiculous. But this chart, like, how can you look at this chart and not be like insanely motivated

to stack as hard as fucking possible? And I thought it was particularly ironic because we have Hoddle here. And 2020, when the COVID bit block boom happened, the median US household income was 6.15 Bitcoin. And now it's dropped to one Bitcoin. I would question that number. I think it's one off, you know. Clearly my calculation.

are wrong. I mean, this is great. Even 2024, it's like you're still, you're still doing infinitely better. These are important charts to look at when, when,

if you're evaluating your stack size. There's another one that I really appreciate, which is the block rewards over the having schedule and just how how quickly it goes to almost nothing. And because I think that like a big problem that people who are new to Bitcoin have is they get like 0.1 Bitcoin or 0.01 Bitcoin or one Bitcoin or whatever. And they just don't understand that they think it's not enough. And they don't really understand or respect what they have. And they take risks to try and like increase that that stack. But really like whatever you're able to pull in with your effort and your labor and your work. and your value contribution to society. Just look at it in comparison to charts like this.

Like, we're all really crushing it. And so I think that's an important thing to like respect, respect the bitcoins as they're coming in and really understand that like 0.01 Bitcoin is a fortune. It's generational wealth. It's just going to take some time, which is why we got to prepare our kids for that. There's something that you said. I can't remember where it was. Medex, but you were on a show

and you're talking about like if you think that you're late to the party and that it's hard to stack meaningful amounts of Bitcoin now, think of the people that haven't even been born yet, like 50 years from now where they're like, fuck, I wish it was

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've said that this is the number one thing your grandchildren will ask you is like, what the fuck were you doing, grandpa? Like one, you couldn't have bought one Bitcoin, one? Grandpa. It was like $100, grandpa. What the fuck, man? And you're going to sit there just like this, like, I don't know, those like fucking. You're volatile.

It was, I know they were printing $3 million dollars, but it was super volatile. That's what it. 20 or 50%. The printing is a hard point for like normies or new people that I try to drive home as well. Is that like forget about the way the world is changing. forget about all the innovation, forget about all the brilliant people coming into Bitcoin every day, finding ways to be valuable to help create this future. Forget about all of that.

Just on the bet, is government going to print more money? Like the coins are going up. Just only on that, no matter what. And that's like the one thing that is just non-questionable, you can't argue it. So it's like, if you think they're going to print money, it's worth it to buy the coins. And honestly, don't even worry about anything else that's going on. Yeah. Before I do a little rotation to our next reason for being bullish, I do want to tell a story, again, Maynex is something hilarious that you said.

And it was in Riga. We just had like a super epic day at Baltic Honey Badger. And, you know, we were hanging up with. Eric Yakes and Efrat. And so we, you know, we went to like some awesome friggin spa at like the hotel. And then we were in some like beautiful courtyard, all eating steak, like looking out at like the beautiful flowers and like people going down the street. And like we're just having the best best day ever. And as you like shoved a bunch of steak into your mouth, you're like, but aren't you guys worried about the volatility?

volatility and we just like burst out laughing. And again, like this is this is the hilarity that is people that that think it's too volatile, that it's too risky, that is too late. It will always, in retrospect with enough time, seem like such a silly statement that I love that moment. Oh, fuck, dude. This is breaking, man. In the chat, I'm seeing South Korea just adopted.

Tableco? Dude, we're fucked, dude. Wait. He is adopting BSV, dude. It's over, dude. Just kill the show, man. What do we even do? Oh, no.

Was he saying that satirically, or is he actually I think it's bullish? I think that might wait. Oh, no, he's got to be saying that satirically. He's laughing about it. Yeah, don't worry. Don't worry.

All the people still on BSV are very excited about it. So congratulations, guys. Enjoy it while you can. We are going to do a rotation. Before we do, I'm going to do a quick little sponsor shout out here, but we're going to find out why the hell Manix is so bullish next. And then we'll jump to Odell after that. But if you're watching the show for the first time, welcome.

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You can head over to Debify.com to check them out or simply scan the QR code on the screen. All right, we're back in and we're going to tee it up. I see people. They huddle, before we ask Maynx, why he's so bullish, somebody needs to know how many sass they need to retire. Is it still, are people still on the 6.15 train? Has that been adjusted? What's your forecast here?

I, well, when I first started the 6.15 thing, it was like, it was like $30,000, which felt kind of ridiculous to tell people, you need to go get 30, put $30,000 in a Bitcoin. It feels really, a huge douchebag. If I was like, if you don't have $600,000, you're a piece of shit. Fuck. So I don't do that anymore. but I do think that trying to get to one Bitcoin is the admirable goal

and I think one Bitcoin is now the new goal you know has been probably will be dude 6.15 is almost 700K now I know like so how insane would I be to be like you don't have 700K you're a bit you know we know you're thinking it but you just don't say it I don't think that

Madex, I'm going to you. Same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? What's top of mind for you? Well, it's important to find reasons to be bullish all the time because we are in this constant onslaught of mental retardation avalancheing at every angle of the earth. And so it is, I get lost in a lot of the dark stuff sometimes, but important. preparation for the show. There's two things that I'm extremely bullish on.

And the first one is that we are giving an inconceivable advantage to our children for the future. And everyone listening to this and like anyone who's ever on this show, like we had to go out there and first of all, get programmed and indoctrinated. with the full power of the state for a very long period of time. And then on top of that, had to go out into the world and start figuring things out on our own. And I think that probably a few Bikorners were lucky and had like very radical parents,

but I think for the most part, we all had to figure it out on our own. And what I imagine we give to our children by them having us as our parents as this just incredible, incredible gift because by the time they're 10 years old, they'll know as much as I know in this moment. And by the time, you know, and they'll probably start to teach us stuff.

And that foundation is what really gives me hope that we are going to destroy this fucking tentacle sludge monster and we are going to win and going to succeed because the tools are being created, the communities now are being created, and then we are just giving a huge head start to this next generation that is going to grow and inherit the efforts of our lives and then also be way ahead to start building whatever crazy stuff that they can come up with. And I think that that is just a kill shot for this whole global homo.

thing and I'm extremely bullish on it. It's awesome. I mean, can you imagine growing up and having the foundation of knowing that, you know, the right to bear arms is the only difference between a slave and a free man? Understanding that at 10 years old is pretty amazing. And, you know, that inflation is theft and all the other, all the other stuff. So extremely bullish on that. It pretty much to me is certain that these children will grow up.

And they will have an arsenal of tools, as we said earlier to their disposal. And it's just going to be havoc. They're going to be armed up. And the next thing is, like, I'm bearish on how intense the crackdowns are coming and how intense the governments. I think that, like, the flying under the radar for Bitcoin era is coming to an end. And that's going to make things a lot more difficult across the board. However, all these networks have come up and exist.

And so I'm bullish on, I think, a future of shadow development coming for Bitcoin. And I think there's going to be a lot more extremely cool projects that we only hear about through time with each other, meeting up with each other and other. There'll be projects that are not widely broadcast or marketed. And I'm just really excited for that because when you can develop in the shadows without having to worry about all the state stuff coming into play and their crazy surveillance network and all that stuff, we're just going to get some really creative things put together. And bringing in practices to fight their surveillance systems and all that is what I see, like the next chapter of Bitcoin becoming. Nice. I like that, again, just in the vein of teaching our kids, you know, differently than state-funded schools. So my daughter is in public.

Well, actually, we switched over to Catholic school recently. But she's also learning a lot at home. And I'm waiting for the day that I get a call. because just the other day like me and me and my wife are having a conversation we're talking about you know how again your average person is kind of screwed now like you thought you had a good job and your your income can't can't put food on the table anymore and you don't understand why and everything's more expensive and taxes are horrible and everything and my daughter's just kind of sitting on the couch and overhearing and then she turns around and after outlining how

everything is such shit for basically most people. She turns around and she goes, that's because of the government. She's eight. And so that was a proud dad moment for me. But, you know, she's learning the tools and she's got her own Bitcoin. Well, I posted something the other day. Like I was teaching her about mining.

So I've got like a few, you know, fun like bid axes and home miners and stuff like that. And I'm teaching her like, hey, this this will earn. you some Bitcoin every single day. And I linked it up to her lightning wallet and just did like a daily lightning payout. And she sees it come in and she's very excited about it and also sees that it's worth more in dollars every day. So I'm explaining like, well, yeah, it's worth more in dollars. But it's like the dollars are worth less and less. And if you keep your allowance in dollars, you'll be able to buy less stuff next year. And if you keep in Bitcoin, you'll probably be able to buy more stuff. And so she's started to clue into all these things. And I

think it definitely is going to give her an advantage. It's also going to give her some friction as she begins disagreeing with her teachers. So that'll be fun. I'm looking forward to that. And to Maddox, to your point, like Bitcoiners and community, maybe the eventual solution is kind of, you know, these community collectives where, you know, we hire educators that, you know, we prefer somebody takes each subject and kind of teaches the kids about it. I've seen a lot of that I heard that they're doing some of that because there's a lot of Bitcoiners in Madeira. So there's like a lot of these kind of communal education like day home type things. So I think that's really, really cool as well.

And I hope more Bitcoiners lean into pushing back from the stereotypical education that one would get and teach their kids in a different way, whether that's just be adding. the ability to question things at home and spending meaningful amounts of time with your kids and getting them to question things or whether that be homeschooling or, you know, going at things a different way. So anyways, I'll shut up. I'll let the other gentleman chime in. My kindergartener the other day said she heard me talking about the government.

And I don't get explicitly political with my kids. Like, you know, because they're kids. Like, I'm not going to see that. It just kind of leaks out. It's the area. in which they grow up and they hear me in the office or whatever, you know. And she goes, Daddy, what's the government? And I go, what do you think the government is?

And she goes, to me, I picture it like a big hole in the ground where trash goes. And I was like, that's pretty, that's, you nailed it. That's what it is. It's basically exactly that, right? And so it's funny because she's picking up these things just from, you know, being around me. And of course, we have little savings accounts for them in Bitcoin and all this kind of of stuff. But I think that it is like, I think

Medex's point about us growing up in a totally different, because we all grew up brainwashed, and then we had to undo the brainwashing, and that took like years and years. It was like, you know, it actually was like the process of leaving a cult is what it felt like. And we all sort of stumbled our way

out of the darkness and we were like, I think something's wrong. I don't know. I'm going to buy internet drug money and see what happens. I'm going to go on Matt Odell's podcast. a man I've never met you know like that was my journey

it was like yeah I think that was the best podcast episode of all time if you know what I'm saying but it was a fun podcast we got really drunk great great conversation yeah we got fucking wrecked

but yeah no it's we just kind of stumbled our way out of the darkness and we sort of found each other and it is very similar to like when people leave fundamentalist cults or religions and then they they sort of group up And then they spend a lot of their time talking about their experiences of being in the cult and then how they deprogram themselves and what they're doing now in order to lead a stable life.

And I think this is instructive for us is I actually think one of the traps of leaving the cult is that you spend all your time focused on the cult that you left instead of your new vision for the future. And so some of the people that leave these cults, they just spend all day long thinking about where they came from and not where they're going. It's like you only actually got halfway by leaving. you leave, that's important, but now you've got to build the new future. You have to build the new world. And I think that's something for Bitcoiners to sort of think about. Like don't spend, you know, yeah, fiat sucks. Okay.

And there's a lot of fiat problems. Got it. Bitcoin fixed a lot of those problems. Cool. Don't spend all day long focused on how fiat ruined the world. Spend your time focused on how you as an individual who's empowered by Bitcoin can fix the world. Not how Bitcoin fixes the world, how you the individual can fix the world using Bitcoin. as a tool.

Yeah. Yes. Amen. Yeah. I like that. I, uh, it, it seems like as Bitcoiners, um, they're starting to be, you know, there's these different phases, like the early phases, nobody meets each other in person. There's all the like online interaction and that's it.

Um, you know, now it's pretty hard into the, the Bitcoin like conference event type circle jerk type thing. And that seems to be, you know, I think there's going to be less of those as time goes on. But the thing that I'm excited about in terms of bitcoins and building communities and like, you know, in terms of kids as well is just Bitcoiners being a legitimate community that actually get together in meat space and just do cool shit. Like I'm, what I want for for as with Bitcoin or friends is just, hey, guys, let's let's let's go. to the mountains and do a hike. Hey, let's go out shooting. Hey, let's go do some fun adventure thing with no need. We don't need talks. We don't need like you're saying. We get it. We know what's up.

Literally like build a better lives amongst ourselves now. And if somebody wants to join into the fray and become part of the group, then then welcome. But yeah, I mean, that's that's the thing. like everybody's kind of, we got the cliff notes. And now we can move forward and see what a better life as a Bitcoiner actually looks like. So, Odell, I'll toss it to you as well if you want to tag in. I mean, the Citadals are going to have the best daycare. Look, at the end of the day, I'm bullish on the people the most. I think there's really not that much more to talk about.

Like, we've kind of talked about it all through the years. Now you've got to either put up or shut up. It's up to you to actually make a change in your own life and with the people you care about. I'm completely fucking done with conferences. What did you say? Traveling clown show or I don't know what a circle jerk. It's ridiculous. But I, you know, the price is $113,000.

and people are freaking the fuck out. They're bearish as hell. They're arguing about random bullshit that doesn't really matter. That's bullish as fuck. That's just incredibly bullish. And like meanwhile, like the new people coming in, they're all buying like stocks that won't be here in 10 years. And like the alpha is to just stack as hard as fucking possible and raise a strong

family and build a community around yourself. And for some reason, it's still the contrarian opinion. We've been screaming it from the top of the fucking rooftops. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We still got our edge. Pretty crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. It's pretty wild. So, Matt, are you saying that the intense debate over Corp versus Knott's doesn't matter? I do not think of matters. No. Okay. I think in the beginning there was a productive debate about like software development and having multiple teams. I think we should have multiple teams.

I think Bitcoiners should have more choice, not less. I think since then it's kind of just evolved into, you know, social media mob fights that aren't actually. really accomplishing anything. The whole debate is solved. The whole debate is solved by just getting more people working on Bitcoin, more people building Bitcoin. And when it gets nasty, that's not like a great way to attract more people in, right? And running code and using tools and building fucking tools and doing the fucking thing.

It'd be different if people were arguing about like an actual protocol change. But that's not this. This is like, I don't know. This is just like the poor man's version of the block size war. It just feels like people are trying to relive the glory days because they're fucking bored with $100,000 Bitcoin because the bull runs not strong enough for them. Well, it would be a sequel to the block size wars by Jonathan. Yes.

Oh, no. I mean, not about this. But I do think shit's going to get crazy. I mean, um, you know, that's the box size war. is you it kind of started similarly and that people were kind of doing the same starting good faith and then it became tribal and then it became

a real thing you know so this could be a real block size war right now it's kind of like a LARP block size war though you're right I mean yeah I agree with that I mean Hottle think about how crazy it would be if there is someone actually like proposes and ships

a hard fork that has like you know maybe not majority stakeholder consensus behind it. Like the majority of Bitcoiners aren't going to go behind it. But let's say it's like 10, 15%, like loud minority.

The chaos that would ensue at the treasury companies in BlackRock and shit and Coinbase for like how they honor that fork would be completely worth it. Like that would be the funniest fucking shit ever. Everyone would just be freaking out. In some sense, like I almost feel like we have an obligation to stress test all these companies.

Yeah. Does that then open the door to like, I feel like would that then open the door for one of these big entities to be like, actually we're going to put out our vision of like, do more hats get thrown in the ring if shit like that happens? Is that the

chaos every time that happens? Yeah. Well, the cool part, The cool part about Bitcoin and one of the reasons I have so much conviction in it is because the status quo is no change. It is really difficult to change the protocol. So Black Rock or Sailor or whatever coming out and being like, we support the fork probably doesn't actually move the needle that much. Them going the opposite direction and be like, fuck, no, we're not changing. Solidifies that default no change or whatever. So I think most people can sleep easy at night

Like I don't think first of all It's not cool anymore like the DEI Uh environmental shit So like Black Rock's very unlikely to try and push forward like a proof of stake thing But that was like a fud line that we heard for a while right which was that Black Rock was going to come in and try and switch us to prove a stake like I just don't think they can fucking do that But like imagine if we're going to go to the technical side like imagine like a hard fork for like a CTV or something like 15% technical support from like the technical community.

I wouldn't support that. But anyone can do it if they wanted to. And it would be very, very chaotic for all the new Wall Street people that are in. Like they just don't, they would not know how to react to that. They would have shareholder meetings and shit. Like are we going to honor the fork? Are we going to sell it for Bitcoin? Are we going to try and distribute it?

How do we distribute it if no one knows how to self-custody? are we going to then sell it and then distribute the dollars like it'd be a whole fucking thing and it'd be interesting at the very least yeah yeah that would be worth fighting about yeah that that was like the point yeah i'm trying to recall back when there were all those you know kind of shitcoin splits in and around bitcoin there's like bitcoin diamond gold at what point i can't remember how many iterations it was before exchanges were just like, okay, we're not, we're not fucking deal. Yeah, at a certain point, maybe it was like Bitcoin private, I think was the last one. I remember being even like nominally worth it to claim the fork. Yeah. And after that it wasn't

even like, like, cash was really the only one that was like worth it to claim. Yeah. And I think most of the, yeah, because SV was a fork of cash. So that kind of came afterwards anyway. Like most people that were not like completely retarded didn't have like Bitcoin cash to to convert to SB when that happened. And that was hilarious, right? Because it was like the like the two evil guys like Roger and Craig like then they split up, which is just like classic fork philosophy. It's just like you're just going to keep forking to death.

And then you had diamond, which was I think a joke from the beginning. Gold was a joke from the beginning. Bitcoin private was like outright. They added a pre-mine to it. But I think like CoinBacer instance, which is probably the best example, I think they only allowed Bitcoin cash. But if you remember, they didn't for a while. And they waited and waited and waited. And then like a random Tuesday night in like a fall.

Yeah. They ninja launched it. And at that point, Bitcoin Cash like they spiked to like 50, 50% of Bitcoin, right? It was like 0.5 Bitcoin for Bitcoin cash. It would be $500 or something for Bitcoin cash. It was crazy. No, it was like four, you said 4,000? No, no, it was 8,000.

I thought like regular Bitcoin was $8,000 in Bitcoin cashers. But anyway, the point is, is it was pure insanity. Yeah. And we didn't have. It didn't sell either. It was a period of time. Exactly. I know.

I was sitting there eating a burrito being like, Brian, I'm trying a fucking piece of shit. Fuck you. Just staring at my phone. And for the new people that might be freaked out about this conversation, The cool part about a fork, a hard fork, is if you hold self-custody Bitcoin, you could literally go on vacation, go to sleep, do whatever the fuck you want. And if you don't make any changes, you have an equivalent amount of both sides of the fork. So you literally cannot lose money in that situation.

Now, if you have conviction, you can then go and sell one side of the fork for the other side of the fork and try and double up the amount of Bitcoin exposure you have. But if you do nothing, the status quo of doing nothing, you don't have any money at risk. Now, if you're using a custodian, you're completely at their will about how they honor that or not. So it would also add to this reduced custodian pressure. Like imagine being, you know, imagine being one of these Bitcoin treasury companies or Bitcoin corporations and you're completely beholden to the custodian you use on whether or not they honor your fork or not. All of a sudden, self-custard becomes a lot more interesting to the Wall Street types, because it's like voter agency almost.

I also will say, like, last time around I dumped my B-cash like day one, pretty much like the minute you could do it for ideological purposes. You know, it would have been better to wait until it reached the 50% mark like Matt was talking about. But I didn't wait. I was like ideological and I was like, fuck the fuck B-cash. And I had a friend say to me who wasn't around during the block. size war. He goes, you know, watching this core knots debate, I won't say which side he said this about, but he goes, watching this core

knots debate, it's just so obvious to me then I would have dumped my coins right away because the other side is just so severely retarded. And like, I do think it does become obvious which side of the fork is going to win out and you can dump your coins for more

because whatever wins ends up being Bitcoin and the other thing ends up being some new name. I'm hoping that a lot of all of this like forking crap and all this stuff. Also, I think that a lot of it was just attempt to play Fiat games with Bitcoin. And I'm hoping that as we go further into the future, that that just becomes less and less incentivized and that people focus on putting their energy into actually providing a value

instead of just some financial trick-fuckery to, you know, try to do this or try to do that. I hope that people will find a way to use their time productively in the future. Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit sensitive conversation for all of us because our entire livelihoods are in Bitcoin. And no one wants like any type of real chaos on, you know, the holy ledger that protects our families. But if we could change the perspective a little bit and let's talk about shitcoins for a second. One of my dream jobs that has not come to fruition yet would be to run like a hedge fund that maliciously forks the shit coins. And we've never really seen that happen.

Like, how has no one done that? I was hoping someone was going to do that. Dave Bradley killed a, Dave Bradley has killed dozens of coins in his career. And he can talk about it himself sometime. But he was just driving insane amounts of mining power into crappy fucking coins and just obliterating them. one after the other. And, yeah, he was doing up to a lot of hilarious stuff like that and was a good fighter against the shit coiners.

Okay, that's awesome. That's kind of my idea. Would he short it at the same time? He was doing all kinds of stuff. But yeah, what hilarious? The one, it was too early for him to have shorted it, I think. But he told me this story. He saw, and this would have been like the shit coin mania of 2017 or something.

And he saw this coin. It was called Women Coin. And it was the first blockchain-based tokens, specifically for women. And their tagline was like, because women love shopping. And he was like, God, this is such a stupid idea. And then he's like, well, I see an opportunity here. So there was no, as I understand it, I don't think there was like a difficulty adjustment on the mining. And so they just thought that like, you know, it would take like five years to mine all the coins or 10 years or something.

So he bought like a bunch of hash on nice hash and pointed it at women coin and mined the entire supply in like a few days. And the market interpreted that as man, everybody fucking loves women coin. And so the price like went way up. And he controlled like all the supply. And so he gradually just like dumped on the market until like it was just completely illiquid. but he said that he uh that was a that was a decent one wow i think of the women all of his poor women how are they going to shop now i don't know i don't know yeah good times in uh in in chikweymoury um jents i i i do want to bring up a more technical topic on the other side

i'm going to quickly do our last uh our last little sponsor shout out odal i don't know if you have additional bullish thoughts or if we kind of dove in. It seemed like we kind of steamrolled through into yours. Am I correct in that assertation? Yeah, I mean, I can always be bullish. You're the boss. Okay. Well, I've got, I've got something to seat us with on the other side.

I'm just kind of curious your thoughts on something interesting that I played around with on a tutorial this week. But we'll do a quick final round. Shout out to sponsors. There's everybody that's here watching the show, new or returning. Thanks for being here. Drop a like on the video. We'll be back in just a minute.

And I want to chat about something that I played with this week that I thought is super awesome. And now there's a couple different, there's a variety of different implementations of it. Our friends of Anchor Watch are using it. But Nunshod just dropped it as well. I'll let you guys know what that is in a second. Looking for a simple and secure way to manage your Bitcoin. mobile, Aqua wallet has you covered. It's user-friendly and puts you in full control of your Bitcoin with secure self-custody. Aqua also supports lightning and liquid network, making fast,

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You can head to coincite.com and use code BTC sessions for discounts, or simply scan the QR code on the screen to get started right away. All right, back in. Man, Adela, you've got lots of space there. You just can wander around. Somebody said you were creeping around like a, a shady criminal or something earlier. I saw that.

What did that mean? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's the haircut. Nonetheless, I wanted to bring up the idea of passing on your sats to your family. And, you know, this is a lot of people, I think, rightfully worry about this. It's very important. And I want to relate this back to, so I've got the team at Bitcoin Mentor, and we do like our one-on-ones with people.

But one of our mentors actually in the team call earlier this week let us know that he had a frigging stroke in front of his family, like in front of his daughter and wife. And he couldn't speak or move. And he's basically lying there as they're panicking, trying to figure out what's going on. And they're calling the ambulance. and he's thinking like, shit, this might actually be it. And he said that while he was panicked, at least in that moment, he was like, I have set myself up where my family knows how to access the Bitcoin because without it, they'd be destitute.

And he was like, I at least had that, you know, to give me a little bit of solace in the moment. Thankfully, he's okay now. He's just under watch, but, you know, he's a young guy. And so, like, scary as hell to happen. But, you know, this is an important thing that people need to think about. And so I guess my way of lending this to the technical side is there's lots of different ways to kind of pass on stuff to your loved ones. But one of the interesting things that is relatively new is miniscript and setting up multi-sig wallets that can, act one way for a set period of time, but then become easier and more accessible later on.

If you know, you set a time threshold or the coins haven't moved in a certain amount of time, then your family members could have just a single key that, you know, a year out of not moving the funds can become accessible. And so I've been playing around with that a bunch. You know, I love everybody over at Anchor Watch. Like, they've built some awesome. stuff over there. They're really hardworking. I remember Rob pulling me aside at a conference. And it was still like, I had no fucking idea what he was talking about. And he's like showing me like his like charts of like, if this happens, then this happens. And I'm like, I was completely lost, but I was nodding and smiling. Now I see the value in what he was trying to tell me about. But I played

around with Leanna Wallet, which is really cool. I believe Keepers implemented it. And most recently, I use the Nunchuk one, which they've rolled out, which is really cool. Just for anybody that's watching this, and you're like, this sounds like Greek, I have no idea what's going on. You can basically set up a multi-sig, which is kind of like a digital vault that requires multiple keys. But you can have it for that eventually you need less keys to access it or you have more available keys to access it. or you can change really whatever you want. So you can have like a vault with three keys and you need two to open it. But if you don't touch the coins for a year, then you just need one key to open it.

And your family has that key. It protects you against single points of failure for the time being. But with enough time passing, it becomes easier for your family to access. So they've got all these different kind of templates that they built in. but I really like the idea of of having the flexibility to set up things as you see fit I think templates are really necessary because people can definitely shoot themselves in the foot here as well

you don't want to set a time lock that you know comes to fruition in the year 3027 or something like that by extent but very very useful nonetheless so I'm just curious your guys thoughts on passing on coins to family, what people should consider in that. Like, you know, what should they be thinking about right now? What kind of tools are available to them? What's the easiest?

What's the most secure? I don't know. Whoever wants to dive in here. Maybe I'll toss to Odell first because I know that, you know, you've probably played with a bunch of this stuff. Look, I mean, any of us that have families, this is top of mind, like, number one thought. Right? Like the normie's first thought when they have families is like, oh shit, like I need life insurance. Our first thought is like, okay, how do we make sure the Bitcoin goes to the next generations?

And I think, first of all, as everything else with Bitcoin, right, there's no one size fits all. I think you kind of have to, first of all, most Bitcoin is lost, not stolen, right? So overcomplication is the enemy, right? So you want the simplest, most effective process for all aspects of Bitcoin, really. But particularly when you're talking about long-term storage. Most people fuck something up rather than actually have Bitcoin stolen. And so then you have to think about what your threat model is at the same time. Because with inheritance, the air can be put at risk because of the way you set it up as well, right?

I will speak for myself personally. I don't want my wife to be able to spend the Bitcoin unilaterally. And that's not because I don't trust her. I mean, she's raising my children. I trust her implicitly. There's no other person I trust more in life. But I don't want someone to be able to come in and put a gun to her head and be like, move the Bitcoin.

Like she literally cannot, right? And that was an absolute must in how we thought about custody. I think for the average person, Anchor Watch is a really, interesting option. If you want to talk about why I'm bullish, seven years ago start my podcast, you know, young kid, no family, just screaming about Bitcoin to the world.

Rob Hamilton listens to the podcast. Me and my co-host launch an investment fund. He launches an insured self-custody insurance, collaborative custody tool and anchor watch. And then we become the largest investor. That was seven years. That's fucking insane. Like if anyone's upset about that timeline,

it's impossible to not be bullish about it. But the cool thing about Anchor Watch is they'll hold your hand and they'll insure the whole thing, right? So if you lose it because of like house fires or theft or they have a ton of different coverage. Any kind of fuck up, it'll get covered by Lloyds of London insurance. It's like one of the best insurers in the world. So I think that's a good option. You do lose privacy in that situation. So if your threat models of the state, probably not a good idea.

the state could go and pressure anchor watch and be like how much bitcoin does hoddle have um and so in that situation if you want to go the self-sovereign way i actually probably if i was going self-sovereign i wouldn't go manuscript yet like i think if you're going to do that you go the handheld way with like an anchor watch um because they will make sure you won't fuck anything up and they'll even ensure it if there's a fuck up um i would go like simple multi-sig uh you give your air one key you give your lawyer one key you have one key and in that situation if you die

you take it your heir takes their key goes to the lawyer neither of them can spend it without the other person and you have a relatively robust setup I will say that what are the majority of people doing self custody out there right now doing? They probably just have a seed somewhere that they told

their wife about and when when they die like their wife's going to call me up and I'm going to have no idea who the fuck they are and they're going to be like this person told me to call Matt O'Dell to help me reload the seed, which I do not think is a scalable solution. But if that does happen, I will help your wife restore your Bitcoin for you. Seed phrases here. They're just going to hand a Bitcoin buddy a seed phrase and be like, my husband told me that you're going to restore this for me.

Yeah. I think Matt hit on a lot of key points here. I'm an investor in Anchorage Watch also. I don't want to do an anchor watch commercial. so I'll just say like it's an extremely like robust custody. It's like very, Mnyscript is a super powerful technology. It's actually like, you know, for the people that talk about, you know,

oh, Bitcoin's not evolving and this and that. Like, dude, there's so much expressibility on main chain that we haven't even tapped into yet. Evidence by stuff like Mnisccript. Mnisccript is just like most Bitcoiners don't even know about it. Like you were saying, Ben, it's kind of complicated in terms of like it actually is the best way we have right now to make Bitcoin programmable. money. And when you see like a miniscript demo or like the way it works, like, holy shit, Bitcoin is programmable money, like in a very real way. Because not only is it like a decayed multi-sig, but I can have a multi-sig, multi-sig that all decay back down to sigilsig.

Yeah. Yeah, you can have a crazy level of sophistication security. So this is like nation state level self-custody. This is like corporate level self-custody. And I do think it's appropriate if you're like a very rich individual Bitcoiner. But probably for the average pleb who values their privacy, it maybe is not the solution for you as of yet. I would say like the biggest thing right now. And I love Leanna and all the other guys that are doing manuscript stuff. Mnisccript is great.

But Matt's right. It's kind of like multi-sig was like six years ago. And that it's a little complicated. You need a little handholding. You need a white glove service right now unless you're a very technically adept Bitcoiner, in which case, do whatever the fuck you want. You don't need to listen to me about any of your shit. but I do think the number one thing is like don't leave your wife and children a treasure map

that's just like all right all right ladies big under the heck you know like I buried the Bitcoin in the garden and this map leads to a trail and then you take the trail to a waterfall and I know by the way I know you all think like that because I think like that and the most dangerous thing you can do in a Bitcoin setup is you go if I do this one special weird thing, no one will ever access this Bitcoin ever. And you're right, including yourself and also your family. So don't fucking do that. Keep it simple.

Have something that your wife can find and just go through and be like, check, check, check. The point Matt made about like having a Bitcoin or friend that your family can call, I think is very key, especially if you're like a person who's been around Bitcoin a long time. You got other Bitcoin technical friends. You have people you trust in Bitcoin. That's a great idea to just put a phone number at the bottom or an email and say, hey, this is a guy I really trust. Hit him up. He will help you out, you know, all things considered.

And yeah, I mean, that's basically it just like, don't do stupid things. Don't do treasure maps. Don't do really weird effort generic setups. Like, dude, okay, I'll just tell you guys, because I don't do this setup anymore so I can do docks it, but like I once took my wife out in a rainstorm. I didn't even live at this location anymore, but I took her out in a rainstorm seven years ago. And I like point, I didn't even, I didn't even talk because she had her cell phone on her. I was like, and I just pointed at a rock. And then I went like this.

I like, dig. She was like, the fuck are you talking about? I was like, this is the best. I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore. I, I, I, there's, there are some people watching this right now that are deeply offended by us laughing at that story. I, again, like, I've definitely heard no shortage or done one-on-ones with no shortage of people that really do think they have to make it super complicated in order to be protected. But again, like, I think you need to have a hierarchy of what the risks are. And the number one risk, Matt, you said it, is people. People lose it. They do something overcomplicated. They buck up a seed. They don't store things properly. They just are forgetful. That's what's going to happen first. And so, like, number one, like, how can you prevent that? How can you prevent yourself from losing it? Number two, in the absence of you, how can you prevent your family from not being able to access it as well? Those should be order one and two. Those are the things that you need to address.

Are you worried about the state? Absolutely. Are you worried about somebody breaking into your home? Absolutely. So those are things to address after the first two things. Like if you fuck up and yourself or your family can't access it, then it doesn't matter if you protected yourself from the state because you haven't protected yourself from yourself. So, yeah, I don't know.

Medex, I'll let you chime in here as well again. Yeah, I mean, it definitely. keep it easy. The biggest mistakes I made with Bitcoin or was making things complicated and making mistakes and experimenting with something that you're like, oh, it's not a lot of money.

It's worth taking this experiment. And so just like, don't fuck around with that, even if it's like not very, you know, many sets or whatever. But the biggest asset that you have for like succession and, well, for, for protection. protecting what you intend to pass on is obscurity.

And so you can have a very simple setup for it. You don't have to complicate it. I mean, like protect against like the major things, obviously like theft and fire and other like natural disaster stuff. But I think that this was my comment on Bitcoin kind of moving into the shadows. I think also that it's a I know we're all really excited about it but the worst thing that you can fucking do is come on a show like this and fucking talk about Bitcoin stuff and that that's what you got going for you is that like don't talk about your fucking coins don't talk about how much

you have when people ask you about it make sure the story is always that you fucked it up and that, you know, this, and like, just have all the covers so that you're not a target. And I think that that's like the most important thing is to be under the radar and be quiet about it and, you know, not be broadcasting to more people. Like, keep everything super need to know with it. And that that's your best friend for security. And then, you know, whatever your strategy is, just like everyone else here said, like just keep it fucking simple. And obviously, like all this tech, like Haudel, you said, you know, like multi-sakes a couple years ago, it's going to get more and more simple over time. And there will probably be a lot of really cool stuff in the future that is, you know, a lot less janky, a lot more trustworthy.

And we're all working on solving these problems as a group of Bitcoiners. And I think we're going to have some really amazing solutions created. We're going to try them. We're going to see the unknowns from actually using them in the real world and just continue to build and iterate. And in the meantime, keep it simple and keep your mouth closed. The alternative is you could also just buy go to madex.art by a ton of madex art with your Bitcoin and then just pass that down to your family. And then you don't have to deal with any of this. That's true.

I'm working on it. And it's a guaranteed value because of the SATs. So, you know, pretty good deal. Yeah, exactly, exactly. There's a comment. You guys are talking about why people don't want to self-custy, why some people transferred to the ETFs. Yeah.

That's, yeah. Sorry, go ahead, move down. I mean, no, look, I think that's a good point, and I see someone also mentioning past phrases. Look, it depends on what your threat model is, right? If you're not a public figure, like us, then the chances that you're going to actually have some kind of like home invader or, you know, some malicious person try and rob you,

specifically for Bitcoin are significantly reduced, right? And so your setup can be much simpler. You can have a much simpler setup. If a common thief, if you have, let's say you have a nice house and a common thief goes in a nice house, they are not looking for Bitcoin. They're going to, like, rob everything else. They're going to like take TVs and stuff, computers, whatnot, jewelry. they're not going to look for Bitcoin. For the average person, for like 99% of people, like single sig with a cold card on steel, right? You just put the backup on steel so it's fire resistant.

Make two of them. Put them in two different places just in case, you know, like in California they had the wildfires that, you know, even if you had a steel backup, a lot of people were shit out of luck. So put them in two different places. And then consider possibly using a pass race. If you want a little bit more protection, you add that last user-generated word.

And then he'd draw it all together in a treasure map. No, I mean, you don't have to, but that's my point. It's like just single-sig, 12 words. You have a, you're in an amazing situation. You're in a really good situation. And you're way better. And then we got to remember, too, guys, they're like ETFs, micro-strap. They bring additional risk to the table, too, that you just might not be thinking about right now.

There's no, there's no risk-free way to hold Bitcoin. The question is how you measure those risks. And I would just say self-custody is much easier than you think it is. And so if you're sitting there overwhelming, the first step is to just try it. Just try it with a small amount of money. Get comfortable with it. I promise you you're going to be able to figure it out, especially with BTC sessions, amazing tutorial videos.

Yeah. I'm still, I hope you made it through the car seat stage. I remember your comment that I hadn't put together a tutorial. You install a car seat. No, I'm still well within the car seat stage, but when I was installing my first car seat, I was like, fucking Ben doesn't have a tutorial video for this thing. It's so fucking complicated to set up. They are the worst. They literally are the worst.

Yes. One last point about self-custy. I would say don't keep Bitcoin at your house either. Keeping Bitcoin at your house invites violence. You know, there are other places you can keep them. Safety deposit boxes, you know, private, et cetera. You might not want to use one that's in a bad. If unless you're using multi-sig, I mean, these are things to think through, but like, don't keep Bitcoin at your house.

You wouldn't keep, you know, a whole stack of cash, like a million dollars of cash at your house. So why would you keep, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars of Bitcoin at your house? Shouldn't do it. Yeah, 100%. Good advice, but don't, not save deposit boxes. Well, they drill into those things. Yeah. Yeah.

If it's single-sig, if it's single-sig, if it's single-sig, not a safe deposit box. Yeah. Everybody's setup is very specific. to their own network of trust and their own environments. And, you know, the guy who lives next to a volcano's setup is going to be different than the guy. This is important. I think this is important. Dude.

People are hearing us talk about this and they're like, well, okay, why would I do this? It sounds fucking annoying, right? And it's like, I, you know, when you're at self custody, you're on a sovereign, you're on a sovereign level of, of Bitcoin ownership. You actually are above micro strategy in terms of being a Bitcoin first class citizen. like micro strategy doesn't have their own their own bitcoin they let coinbase hold it for them so they have a proxy that's doing it on their behalf custodian when you are taking control of your own custody especially when you're using these high you know technologies like minisccript and multisig and etc you are literally at a nation state level of you know encryption powered monetary sovereignty that's pretty crazy right so like why would you want to be at that level well it gives you the ultimate perch from which to negotiate with other powered entities, right? So like, you have the ability to, like, if there's a fork, you have the ability to take control of the fork, you don't have to wait on somebody else who's a proxy for you

making that decision. If there's a crackdown on Bitcoiners, you're not at risk because your Bitcoin is not in a proxy. You can flee, you know, that jurisdiction, et cetera. Like, there are reasons to do it that go beyond the obvious day to day of like, why would I want to do that? Also, it doesn't cost any money, you know, like to hold your own Bitcoin. Whereas if you're in ETFs, you're slowly getting eroded. The fees are pretty low. There's 0.25% right now, 25 bibs. But over time, we expect those fees to rise.

And they'll get closer to probably 1% or so. So like, do you really want to give up 1% to your Bitcoin over time? Not particularly. Not for me. Right. So some of these risks are worth of. It's also a lot of fun to just be a fucking pirate. And like everything's a fucking risk if you're a pussy.

So figure it out. Also, don't live next to a volcano. Yeah, stay far away from volcanoes. That too. I think that's a great note to end on. Everything's a risk if you're a pussy. So stop being a pussy and learn about self-kowski. I think that's an excellent way to round this out.

Gentlemen, I appreciate your time. Come and getting bullish with me on Wednesday night. Very, very appreciated. It's been too long. and I hope to see you guys maybe in person at some point here in the future but either way everybody

of course go and check out what these gents are up to there's always awesome stuff coming from all of them and go get yourself some Maidex regalia their excellent pieces so yeah

Hoddle's not all blinged out are we being too overt did you not get the memo yeah we're not staying humble here anymore. I'm waiting on my Maidex art, which Maidex hasn't shipped me yet. I wear this so often,

I wear this so often that my son, if I don't put it on in the morning, like runs into the bedroom to grab it to make sure I put it on. That's sick. Yeah. It's awesome. It's, and it's obsec friendly. So that's a bonus. I mean, I guess kind of. Yeah, yeah, for the most part.

Usually, like, I don't, we're not going to sell wearing a gold chain around your neck is obsequ friendly. a little bit of a stretch. That's true. That's true. All right, gentlemen, thank you guys so much. Again, everybody, if you enjoy the combo, please do drop a like on the video and we'll see you again very soon. Thanks, guys. Have a great evening. Thanks. Good night. Cheers. Cheers. Hey, you. Yes, you watching the Bitcoin price movements and the latest exciting news. It's awesome to stay informed, but the real power of Bitcoin comes from taking control. Don't just watch.

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