BTC Sessions - WARNING To MicroStrategy & NEW RIVAL | $900B BUYER EXPOSED!

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

WARNING to MicroStrategy and its NEW rival — a $900B buyer has just been exposed, and the game is changing fast. This power move could reshape the entire Bitcoin accumulation race.🔥 Don’t miss this action-packed episode! Subscribe, hit the bell, and join us LIVE to stay ahead of Bitcoin’s biggest moves! 🚀—------------------------------BOOK private one-on-one sessions with BITCOIN MENTOR! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more - all from a team of top notch educators that I've personally vetted.https://bitcoinmentor.io/—------------------------------FOLLOW Simply Bitcoin & BTC Sessions on other channels:Simply Bitcoin on Youtube: youtube.com/@simplybitcoinSimply Bitcoin on X: x.com/simplybitcointv Nico on X: x.com/bitvoltBTC Sessions on X: x.com/BTCsessions—------------------------------SHOW SPONSORS:BITCOIN WELL BUY BITCOINhttps://bitcoinwell.com/btcsessionsMINING DISRUPT CONFERENCEhttps://www.eventbrite.com/e/mining-disrupt-conference-2025-fort-lauderdale-florida-tickets-980017277057?discount=BTCSESSIONSCOINKITE/COLDCARD (5% discount):https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions AQUA WALLEThttps://aquawallet.io/NUNCHUK HONEYBADGER INHERITANCEhttps://nunchuk.io/individualsHODLHODL NO KYC P2P EXCHANGEhttps://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSIONDEBIFI LOANShttps://debifi.com/#bitcoin #crypto #btc #money

While the entire world was celebrating Jack Mallor's massive move, a much bigger money was unfolding. Almost no one saw it. For those out of the loop, Mallors just launched 21 Capital, kicking things off with a stealthy purchase of 42,000 Bitcoin. His mission? Maximize Bitcoin per share. A clear shot across the bow at Michael Saylor's micro-strategy.

The King. of corporate BTC exposure. Until now, this has the makings of a heavyweight title fight, Mallors versus Sailor, for the crown of Bitcoin-backed public equity. But while everyone's been glued to that headline, something else just quietly slipped through an SEC filing. A buyer with way more firepower just made a move that could redefine the entire landscape. And today, I'm going to show you exactly who it is. Stick around. You're not going to want to miss this one.

I'm Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your weekly session. All right. I'm going to bring in my co-host with The Most. And I don't know what's going on there, but let's jump over. Dude, it has been absolutely wild. It feels like one of those weeks where years happened. Like there's tons of stuff to get into it.

So let's just dive in, my friend. Yes, absolutely. First off, for the people that are unfamiliar with the whole 21 Capital Jack Mallor's thing, let's just hear it from the horse's mouth. Let's hear exactly what they're doing with 21 Capital. Jack, when did this idea come to bay? The founding story. So I co-founded the business with Tether.

I would say I've known the Tether Group for over a decade. There just weren't that many bitcoins around over 10 years ago. So we've done a lot of work together in El Salvador. We've been so inspired by Michael Saylor and all of the public companies acquiring Bitcoin. But I would say over the last few years, that inspiration turned into what we thought was an opportunity and a hole in the market that we could deliver on, which is bringing blue chip credibility and startup upside. We feel like we can bring enough capital and be big enough to win. We're small enough to grow.

And most importantly, a pure Bitcoin business. A lot of these companies, they're pivoting from a past operating business. They're rebranding, changing their name. there, maybe selling video games to buy Bitcoin or selling medical equipment to buy Bitcoin. And we're a purpose-built Bitcoin company. We're going to build Bitcoin products, Bitcoin cash flow, and we're going to give Bitcoin per share growth to shareholders and be hopefully the best way for investors to get Bitcoin exposure in the public markets. Jack, I think off camera just before we started, you used the word vehicle, a vehicle

for Bitcoin. I think like a reasonable question that people have is what does the CEO of a new company whose mission is to accumulate Bitcoin due day to day? Like what is it that you're going to try and manage or achieve? Yeah. So for all the Bitcoiners out there, we encourage you to check out our filing. We've introduced two new metrics to the public markets. One is BPS stands for Bitcoin per share as opposed to earnings per share and the other is BRR, which stands for Bitcoin return rate. And my job and what I'm dedicated to do for our shareholders in which we view similar to our customers is grow our Bitcoin per share. So we're in operating company and when you buy a share of 21 in a hypothetical sense what we intend to do is let's say

our bitcoin per share is 0.05 our intent is to be able to grow that to 0.06 Bitcoin per share, 0.07 Bitcoin per share where a vehicle like an ETF, your exposure is static. So 21's an operating business and we will be building Bitcoin products, Bitcoin operative cash flow and then using the capital markets to accretively grow the Bitcoin on our balance sheet so we want our shareholders to get wealthier, get richer in Bitcoin terms, and our metrics encourage the market to view us, not in Fiat terms in Bitcoin terms, because we're not here to necessarily beat the market. We're here to build a new one and encourage the world to adopt Bitcoin in a sense that we believe it hasn't yet.

So very interesting there. Some of the terminology that he's using, what he's talking about in terms of what he's trying to do, and the comparisons are what are striking to me, right? He's saying, listen, we are a Bitcoin-focused company. All these other people, they're pivoting from a software company. They're trying to sell video games or medical equipment. He's literally rattling off and taking shots at microstrategy, GameStop, similar scientific, and basically saying, yeah, they do this, but we just do this.

And so you want to park your money with us. Any thoughts there? Well, I think it probably was the screaming obvious play for Tether. I think that's one of the interesting points of that that Tether is involved because comparatively, last I looked, Tether's cash flow, their profit there is about 10 times that of micro strategies from the operating business standpoint. So they've got a major advantage of dealing potentially with additional credit. They could take on more leverage because they've got substantially more cash flow.

And I wonder how fast they're going to try and run at this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean, just to rub salt in the wound, look at the graphic that they released for 21 Capital, literally side by side with the now revamped strategy. But like they all these metrics, pure play Bitcoin exposure. And with strategy, they give it like a 75% and them 100%. Bitcoin native operations, a big donut for micro strategy. existing debt balance, half and half, and 21 is all good. Debt collateralization, insider ownership, purpose-built KPIs.

They're basically piece by piece saying we are better, go with us. We're doing everything better. So, I mean, is Mallor is out to eat Sailor's lunch, do you think? It seems like he's going for it, but funny enough, and I very well could have missed it. So please forgive me if I'm just absolutely wrong in this. I'm not lying, but I might be wrong, too. but the one thing that I've seen is they got all these like, okay, we got more cash flow. They're introducing some new metrics to measure buys.

Like, okay, that's great. They got some big money behind them. I haven't heard one single business plan, though. We're going to do Bitcoin businesses. Excellent. Could you tell me a little bit more about your business? They're going to be great. At least Sailor has a software business.

Yes, it's not a Bitcoin business, but at least he's got a game plan there where this feels like, this is just an excuse to get some cheap capital, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I guess we don't really know exactly. There wasn't a lot of specifics. Although, again, I'm sure over time, we'll learn a little bit more about it, have a bit more detail. But, I mean, everybody's looking for that Bitcoin exposure and look what it's done for micro strategy.

Again, he saw a gap in the market. It makes sense that they took it. Now, off the top of the show, we were talking about Mallors, Sailor, you know, they're now in direct competition. They are trying to raise capital in order to buy more Bitcoin. And so, you know, Sailor hasn't slipped up. He just bought another half a billion dollars worth just recently. And they're not the only ones. Of course, you know, you got GameStop, similar scientific.

You've got a whole bunch kind of throwing their hats in the ring in that mechanism of raising capital to buy Bitcoin. But you're also starting to see different approaches. And so here you see Circle and BitGo. They're about to apply for bank charters. And so, I mean, Nathan, do you maybe want to talk about what a bank charter enables an entity to do? Yeah, essentially, it's going to give them access to the Fed window. They're going to have the ability to get kind of subsidized loans directly from the Fed. And from a banking standpoint, that's essentially more competitive because you're always dealing with that spread, right?

You want to make sure that you're borrowing as low as possible. But they're all kind of taking the same play. It's different roundabout ways of essentially printing money. Because if you haven't dove into this, it's a fascinating subject. I had a great talk with Bob Murphy about it about two weeks ago there. But when you go and get money from the bank, they're not lending you somebody else's money. They're creating it there. So you're essentially printing dollars by borrowing it in order to then go buy Bitcoin.

With Circle and Bitcoin, it's the same sort of play. They'd have the ability, potentially, if they get their bank charter to borrow from the Fed and then purchase whatever assets or what they need to with that. So it seems like this is kind of that, maybe we're getting a little later in the dollar's life cycle here. That would be interesting to explore. And so, I mean, what we've been talking about so far,

these are all people trying to get lent money in order to purchase Bitcoin. But what we've kind of been, like in these first two examples, we're working our way towards the money spigot, right? You've got people that have got to raise capital in the public markets. You've got people that are trying to get access to cheap capital directly loaned from the central bank. But what if the central bank wants to start getting their hands on Bitcoin? Well, I mean, we've seen some interest here and there, but we've also seen some, you know,

some things that were proposed with central bank faces call to hold Bitcoin in reserves. There's a proposal to oblige the SNB or Swiss National Bank to hold Bitcoin. It was set in motion. This was late last year and in December. We then had a story where the Swiss Central Bank chief basically rejected the whole idea. Hey, we're not going to hold Bitcoin. There's issues with digital currencies. We're good with everything that we have.

It's not happening. And so the posturing was, hey, not going to happen. Swiss Central Bank. And I mean, these guys, you know, you were saying before the show, they were the last country to go off the gold standard, right? And so like they understand hard assets. They understand the value of holding that. It's unfortunate that they ended up bending the knee and going off the gold standard. But there's a saying to not listen to what people say, but watch what they do. And the Swiss Central Bank is indirectly involved. investing in Bitcoin by purchasing Microstag Strategy stocks. So the Swiss National Bank has reportedly entered the Bitcoin market indirectly acquiring shares of micro strategy, a business intelligence firm. We all know who they are. This move highlights a growing institutional interest in digital assets.

According to the media outlet, the defiant, the SNB's decision reflects an indirect approach to digital assets, aligning with increasing institutional appetite for cryptocurrencies, aka specifically Bitcoin. Industry observers interpret the move a strategic pathway for the Swiss central bank to gain exposure to Bitcoin without engaging directly in cryptocurrency purchases. So while the head of the bank was saying, now, we're not doing that, what they're actually doing in practice is trying to get exposure without the optics of actually buying Bitcoin because it collapses the whole central bank narrative that Bitcoin is useless. It's a really stark move. And when you think of, okay, Jack Mallors, Michael Saylor, they have to raise capital to buy Bitcoin. You know, BitGo Circle, if they get a bank charter, they have to get loans from the central bank and then purchase Bitcoin. But a central bank will grow their balance sheet at will.

Money printer go burr is infinite. And right now, like the GDP of Switzerland is, you know, closing in on 890 billion U.S. dollars. They're not a joke. This is massive. And they're not the only country. Like, this is newer, but Norway already started doing the same thing, trying to get exposure to Bitcoin through micro-strategy. So there's an appetite there from the central banks themselves who are trying to say this stuff is worthless, but their actions are saying the complete opposite.

It's crazy. I mean, what are your thoughts here? Man, and I feel like it was always going to go this way. Like, we might not want to have the institutions and the big players coming to join us in Bitcoin, but what did you necessarily think that hyper-bitcoinization was going to look like? It's going to start with the, on the ground level, with the plebs going like, oh, my God, I got to get as much of this crappy money and trade it in for Bitcoin. It's going to move to the corporations.

Same sort of thing. I need to get much of this crappy money and trade out for Bitcoin as I can. And then from there, it's going to the corporate bank levels. We're seeing like the commercial banks with the charters looking at for Circle and Bicko. But eventually it would make its way up the stack to the central banks going, oh, my God, I got to print the crappy money and get the good stuff. So maybe I'm surprised that we're starting to see that. I thought that this kind of thing would take a little bit longer.

And I know it's a very, very small amount, but everybody just dips their toe in to begin with, right? Everyone in place it's safe. They're not quite sure. They need to learn more. They're going to start to experiment. But yeah, this was tucked away in a 49 page. It was 13F SEC filing. They bought 517,000 shares of micro strategy,

about 150 million at the time. But they're buying micro strategy because it's a Bitcoin proxy. It's exactly what Mallors is trying to now offer to other institutions and players out there. And one of the really interesting points about this is that they did indirectly kind of print to do it. But they bought it using their form. currency reserves. So the central bank of Switzerland literally took other banks fiat paper and traded it for a Bitcoin proxy. Fiat paper that they first actually got by printing their own and then buying it up in the first place because, and this is where it's a little nuance,

it's a little new, it's not quite that. But the foreign currency reserves are there to manage their price, to manage the cost of the Swiss franc. So when the Swiss franc is doing great, they'll print some and they'll buy US dollars, euros, other things, and kind of have those on reserve. It's used to manage it. So they're buying assets that they can also sell off if they need to that are used to manage it. So dare I say, in a very, very small roundabout way, technically, technically the Swiss franc is kind of a little bit backed by Bitcoin now. Yeah. It's wild to see. It is absolutely crazy to see. And I, so the criticisms that I've heard here is, hey, Swiss Central Bank, Norway, you know, they're not buying Bitcoin. It's through proxy.

They're diversifying. They're getting exposure to micro strategy and other things. I get that. And that's valid. But there was another crazy interview just yesterday that basically points to the fact that other sovereign wealth funds, central bank. banks, major institutional players, are directly buying Bitcoin. And we're going to cover that as soon as we get back. So don't go anywhere. Everybody that's in the chat, thank you for being here. Make sure you drop a like if you're enjoying the content. And we'll be back in just a moment.

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into this next story. We're over here on Bitcoin. Well, of course, if you want to check them out, there is, as of now, a QR code on the screen where you can sign up and check out what they're up to. It's a great place to be stacking stats in Canada and the U.S. And we're going to give away some stats right now. The way it works is when you sign up, buy Bitcoin, refer friends, you earn points. And those points can be used to toss a coin in the well and have a chance to win up to a million sats. All you need is a lightning wallet. The QR code. that pops up in the browser window, once I do, will be a one-time thing.

Whoever snags it and scans it with their wallet first, we'll get the prize. So I'll get rid of that. Good luck to everybody. And if you do snag it, of course, let us know in the comments. 630 sats for whoever scans that first. Love to see it. But let's get into, I want to segue here.

And I want to frame this kind of next section with this interview, this recent interview of the legendary investor, founder of Bridgewater, Ray Dalio. And he's talking about something worse than recession just around the corner. Let's listen. That right now we are at a decision-making point and very close to recession. And I'm worried about something worse than a recession if this isn't handled well. A recession is two negative quarters of GDP and whether it goes slightly there, we always have those things. We have something that's much more profound. We have a breaking down of the monetary order.

We are going to change the monetary order because we cannot spend the amounts of money. So we have that problem. And when we talk about the dollar and we talk about tariffs, we have that. having profound changes in our domestic order, how ruling is existing, and we're having profound changes in the world order. Such times are very much like the 1930s. I've studied history and this repeats over and over again. So if you take tariffs, if you take debt, if you take the rising power, challenging existing power, if you take those factors and look at the factors, those changes in the orders, the systems,

are very, very disruptive. How that's handled could produce something that is much worse than a recession. So Ray is basically talking about the fact that over time, there's rising and waning powers, global superpowers. And those superpowers, typically, they'll have the World Reserve currency. And so, you know, in our lifetimes,

all we've ever really known is U.S. dollar supremacy. And he actually made this charge. that I'm going to show here, showing the last few world powers, the Dutch, the British with the British pound, and currently the U.S. dollar. And what Ray thinks is happening is we're in one of these 10 to 20 year transition periods between monetary superpowers and that China is the one that is aiming to displace the U.S. dollar. However, I think you guys know where I'm going with this. what we need to take a look at is what is the world actually acting upon

don't look at what people say look at what they're doing as we witnessed in the first part so let's take a peek at another clip here this was from CNBC and it's talking about well I'll just let the clip speak for itself and then we'll chat about it here we go

We're going to talk Bitcoin. Take a look at where things stand right now. We want to talk about what's driving this because we're going to back up at 96, almost 93, almost $94,000. This of course we were down, but 76,000 was maybe the recent low. I don't know. 675, yeah. 76 5. John Degasino is here. He's the head of strategy at Coinbase Institutional. Tell us what's going on in terms of the coupling, decoupling, I don't really really know. Because there's periods of time where it feels very coupled, then it feels uncoupled, then it feels

coupled up again right well first of all thanks for having me it's great to be back on so we talk about decoupling we're really talking about neutral negative correlation and more specifically we're talking about negative correlation when markets panicking on the downside nobody minds correlation when it's upside correlation so you know first and foremost got to be super careful right this is a relatively short-term data set April you don't want to assume it's going to persist I could be making a fool in myself right now and today it can jump to a one correlation the other thing you want to be careful about

is even if we understood exactly the reasons, and I'll get into what we think they are, just because this occurred now, it doesn't mean if that similar set of events occurred, we'd have exactly the same behavior. So just a disclaimer, be very, very careful. And that applies to gold. That implies to any asset.

So the nice thing about my position is I don't have to guess as to what traders are thinking, we're kind of the center of the crypto ecosystem. So when you called me, I made a bunch of calls. And the pools of capital that have been buying during April, sovereign wealth funds, large institutional, long-term duration pools of capital, they're looking at it basically three ways. One is, if you think about the tariff announcement April 2nd, if you believe that that's going

to have a spillover effect on global trade, you believe there's going to be less global trade, then much of which is denominated in US dollars, then you think there'll be lower demand for US dollars, that we refer to as de-dollarization. Well, some of the ways Bitcoin is used by these large pools of capital is they buy it it in their local fiat currency, they hold it, and they sell it into dollars when they need it. Well, if you think dollar is going to weaken, then you don't do that anymore. And so you're holding more Bitcoin and these again, large insurance pools, sovereigns, etc. So that's one thing, is this de-dollarization trade. The second piece is that post-COVID Bitcoin got kind of got

caught up in this levered tech trade, kind of just bundled into the QQQ, bundled into NVIDIA. It's not really a tech stock, but it kind of got associated with tech stocks. Well, I always thought that the issue was that there were retail investors who were taking their winnings in some cases from an Nvidia or Apple or whatever, one of the Mac 7 and then moving it into Bitcoin. And therefore, then it was all tracking because to the extent that then they had to ever, they owned that other stuff too. Whenever went down, they had to sell out of stuff, they also were selling out of Bitcoin. During the bubbly periods in tech stocks, that's not an unfair assumption. But I'll note one thing. So for the month of April, as you would expect, gold ETF inflows were massive,

like $8.5 billion roughly from the second through the 21st, 22nd. Okay. Might surprise you to learn that Bitcoin ETF flows were net negative to the tune of about 470 million. So the opposite of that was occurring. So institutions, sovereigns, patient pools of capital, were piling in during April, which resulted in about a 13% increase in Bitcoin versus 10.5 for gold. And retail via the ETF were exiting. So you got to ask yourself, what do the institution?

know that institutions buy what do the institutions know that retail doesn't and the other thing he said there's sovereign wealth funds and institutions were piling in like retail is asleep at the fucking wheel and then you have the people that whose job it is to preserve capital to preserve purchasing power and they are piling into bitcoin in a variety of different ways. And I mean, I feel like this is reflective of what we see from your average person. They have no clue. Like Nathan, what are you seeing in your normie friend circles? Do they have their eye to Bitcoin? Are they piling in?

Oh, dude, I'm getting no text, no comments. Like, retail hasn't shown up at all. I don't know if they were completely scared or burned back from like the 2021 cycle, but they have not even remotely arrived, which is why, again, the financial advice, but I still think that the four-year cycle is very much so intact and that later this year is going to be absolutely crazy because at some point in time, I think they will get that foam up, but there's still, there's that information asymmetry.

And we see these giant pools of capital sovereign wealth funds taking positions in Bitcoin. It's obvious why, right? If you look back and remember when Russia got kicked off the SWIF system, they need something neutral that cannot be controlled more than anything by anyone else to protect their purchasing power there. But these guys, they don't act quickly. They're slow. They're methodical.

They absolutely have research teams. They can even have investigators, boots on the ground. They've got the resources at their disposal to make smart moves. And if they're seeing an opportunity or if they're making moves now, to the point where it's even possibly affecting price, then you know they've got, they know something that we don't because they got the ability to spend the money to find it out. Yeah.

And again, don't listen to what they say. Watch what they do. And to harken back to Ray Dalio's famous chart here, the Dutch, the British, the U.S., and his assumption that it's the Chinese next, everybody here that's watching, we know exactly what's happening, and it's this.

Bitcoin is next. And the proof is in the pudding. It's happening right before our very eyes and the rest of the world's asleep. So we're going to be right back. We have a few exciting updates to share with you guys, some really cool tech stuff, but stack those stats where you still can because institutions are here, countries are here.

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Make sure if you're enjoying the show, give that like button, a tap or a smash, whatever you prefer, a tickle, anything. We appreciate it all. But let's dive into some of the quick tech updates that we got here. Bitcoin Well, they've now got a point store. So obviously, we just gave away some stats you guys saw. But now you can actually redeem your points. for Bitcoin gear. Shout out to our brothers over at Simply Bitcoin. The Simply Bitcoin hoodie is on

the shelf there. I have my Simply Bitcoin gear. And by the way, we do this once a week. Okay. We do the news once a week. If you want it mainlined into your veins, go be sure to subscribe to Simply. They're doing it five days a week. They're holding it down. Awesome, awesome dudes. But I digress. More stuff in the store. Stampseed, leather mint. They even say, Tesla's cyber truck in Bitcoin Orange. Wait, really? A cyber truck? Who approved this? You got to get 69 million points to get it, but you know, start stacking them down. Maybe one day. I wonder how much Bitcoin you would have to stack to get that many points. I hope somebody does it. I need somebody to do it, too. There was the, did you see the, like, back in the day, the Pepsi points, somebody

bought enough to buy an F-18 or something, then tried to redeem it? And there's a whole documentary on it. Adam, be careful. Somebody's coming for that cyber truck one day. I swear to God. All right. Let's, let's move on here. This is interesting. Ark, this just from their Twitter account, someone asked what we've been cooking. We're pleased to report we recently completed a prototype integration of Lightning's taproot assets into the ARC protocol, another scaling protocol, unlocking tokenized VTXOs or TVTXOs, new opportunities for efficient and secure token operations in Bitcoin. So basically the idea is it has something like a stable coin that goes over lightning or over

arc. You can also have things like stocks, stuff like that issued on directly on Bitcoin, no need for an external blockchain, anything like that, just done over lightning. And so this is what they're rolling out. Again, first prototype just kind of hidden here. You can kind of go into the full technical details. Arc is a bit of a blind spot for me, but again, always happy to hear about new scaling technologies and options on Bitcoin.

Nathan, hot take here. Thoughts on Arc? Well, realistically, the one thing that always gets me is like, I don't, maybe I'm wrong. I'm glad to see people experimenting and building, but I don't see there actually going to be much demand for other things on top of Bitcoin than Bitcoin. So I'm always skeptical of it. But again, I don't necessarily have a dog in the fight.

So I'm free to go with it. Correction, though, whenever someone tries to be like real world assets on Bitcoin, it's like, you can't do that. It's got to be information of some kind. It's got to be natively digital. Because if it's real world shit,

then they're going to have to be somebody with a gun and forcing the actual handoff at some point in time. And I agree, Arc has always been a bit of a blind spot for me as well, too. And I can't remember who it was, but I had someone much smarter than me, sit me down and actually explain that the integration, possibly between arc and lightning is very, very, very promising for scaling in the future, too.

So I'm glad to see people are working on it. If other people can get other value of it, that's another reason for there to be kind of a demand to continue doing the research in these projects. So I'm all for it. I'm not sure it's going to work, but I'm all for it. Yeah, yeah. In general, if you're not holding actual Bitcoin, if you're not using the Bitcoin blockchain specifically for Bitcoin, there's always going to be a degree of trust in and counterparty

risk in what you're trying to accomplish. If you have a stable coin, that's meant to represent dollars in a bank account held by somebody somewhere. If you're using a stock, unless it's issued specifically on the chain, I mean, even still, you still have to, as with a normal stock, rely on the issuer and that they're not going to dilute you, which happens with stocks anyway. So, you know, there's some nuance there. the one thing that would maybe set apart, there's still the counterparty risk, you're holding a stock or something, but it gets rid of the walled garden

where you have to trade within a particular platform. You could just trade across platforms or you could peer-to-peer send over some stock to somebody without having to use a specific platform like Robin Hood or whatever. But even on that note, too, it's funny. I guess this is just like my long-term view coming out is essentially like, yeah, but Bitcoin adoption is growing.

So who's really going to want dollars and stocks down the road? That might be a fun kind of intermediary, but I think it's going to be a ghost town at some point. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I'm not going to argue too much here with you. So let's just move on.

Bolts, this is cool. They just released zap swaps. So if you're unfamiliar, bolts is kind of the back end of wallets like Aqua wallet. So I love Aqua. It works great. But it's using. liquid in the back end. And so when you receive a lightning payment, you end up with liquid

Bitcoin. When you send a lightning payment, you're swapping from liquid to lightning. And it just uses bolts as this atomic swap functionality in the background. You can do the same thing with on-chain to lightning, liquid, all of that. The main hurdle has been, they had limitations on the size of payments that you could make because on-chain, like liquid is its own like a side chain of Bitcoin, but it works the same. Like the fees are structured on how much data you're sending. It's not like lightning where you can get away with payments that cost a few sats. It's likely more like 50 sats or 100 sats or something like that.

So what they've implemented is it doesn't solve the fact that it's still a blockchain that has like a SAT per byte, you know, or LSAT in this case per byte payment. but they are allowing you to pay and swap for smaller amounts. You just need to be aware that if you're doing it, you're sending a payment, you're zapping somebody for 50 sets, there's a good possibility that the fee to send the zap will be 50 sets. So, you know, it's trade-off. The trade-off here is when you use something like Aqua,

or in this, they're saying that this is in Breeze, text, Misty Breeze, and with Bloxroom Green. When you're doing this and you're using the liquid as the back end, there's no lightning channels to deal with. You just open the wallet and you get a seat phrase and that's it. And the rest is just handled. So nonetheless, pretty cool. And speaking on the same topic here,

I've been playing around actually with Misty Breeze this week. So some of our viewers may be familiar with the Breeze Lightning Wallet, which is full self-custodial. It creates a lightning channel to you. the node runs on your phone. Misty Breeze uses the same, generally the same backend infrastructure as Aqua. So it's using that bolts that we're just looking at.

It settles in liquid Bitcoin. So you don't have to deal with any sort of like setting up channels or liquidity or any of that. You just open the wallet, start it. And you can just start receiving payments. So I don't know. Have you played around with this, Nathan, yet? No, I haven't. I was actually going to ask you on that note, too.

I'm wondering how this compares because I play around with Aqua. lots in the Bull app as well too. I'm curious how this compares to something like Blitz, if you're finding it's a better UI or what your kind of initial take is. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty smooth when I tried it out. I'm actually, I'm making a video on it right now, but pretty much you download it, you hit Get Started, and it just bumps you into the wallet interface right away. You can pretty much start receiving right away. Again, it goes, it uses bolt swaps to settle in liquid all the time. You can send, it's the difference I'd say between Aqua and this. Aqua has like savings and spending where it separates on chain and liquid,

but liquid is liquid and lightning. Whereas this is one unified balance, more kind of like a moon wallet like that. And so for that, you know, depending on your use case, I actually like it. There's a couple things I encountered. So like when you want to fund it with an on chain payment, you know, Aqua, you can just go to the liquid send and then there's a button that says peg in and you just send a, you send a regular on-chain payment and it just lands. With this one, you actually have to specify the amount. So if you want an on-chain payment, it's like type in the amount you're going to receive, which isn't a big deal if you're sending from one of your own other wallets, but if you're trying to withdraw from an exchange, it can present problems because you're getting a very specific amount of stats. And it may, throw a wrench in it. So once that changes, I think it'll be pretty smooth. Other than that, it worked pretty down well. And I just love these kind of hybrid wallets where it's like on-chain, lightning, liquid, cashew, like all this kind of stuff. Blitz incorporates cashew. And I like the way that they've done it is if you've received small payments, you're in an e-cash mint. If it gets

slightly larger, it uses a lightning swap over to liquid. If it gets even larger and it makes sense, they'll just open a full lightning channel to you. So you get more sovereignty as you build your balance, which is a really cool approach. No, it's a good way to go. And I love that it's really hard to argue that Bitcoin's not going to be built out in layers at this point. I think big blockers be damned. That it's going to be base money and then we have these wonderful different applications and protocols that are built on top of it. And the other thing that always makes me happy to, even with something like cash room, is that like, do you really need those kind of micro payments? But it just seems like that forethought, like, hey, let's just get ready for sat sent parity.

Don't know when it's coming. Could come, or sorry, sat dollar parody. It could be any day now, as we're fired from Ray earlier. So we'll just be ready in the case, in the event of. Exactly. Exactly. And on the same note of really cool wallets that are available or once again available. Phoenix Wallet. We mentioned this last week back in the U.S. now that the regulatory pressure seemed to have lifted. So they're back. If you're the U.S., be sure to give it a checkout. And I just, because of that news, did a revamped tutorial on Phoenix Wallet. And there's been some updates since I did it last. So I kind of walk through everything, starting from a beginner's perspective, but then kind of dive into some of the stuff in the background, talk about tactics.

And I've broken it up based on user use case. So are you somebody that's going to be basically pulling money in and then using it as a spending wallet? Or are you somebody that's going to be receiving a whole bunch of payments over and over again? Because the way that you set up the wallet is going to be slightly different depending on what you're looking to do. So if you're curious, head over, check out the new Phoenix wallet tutorial that just came out on Monday. And before we part, of course, we need to remind you guys that if you ever need some help, be sure to check out over at Bitcoin Mentor where both myself and Nathan work and work alongside a ton of incredible Bitcoin educators.

So if you need some handholding through your Bitcoin journey, you want to get set up on hardware, multi-sig, run a node, hobbyist home mining, and anything in between, privacy is a big. one holy crap you guys need to coin join i'm not going to go any deeper than that but just do it just trust us just do it yeah if you're in canada especially you're probably going to want to start coin joining if you haven't already um but if you need some help scan the QR code or just head over to bitcoin mentor.ao uh Nathan I will see you uh over the course of the week and we'll be seeing each other next Thursday everybody else thanks for being here this is Nathan I'm Ben And this was your daily session.

See you guys again soon. Hit that light button, everybody.