BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? A Perfect Storm Forms For Bitcoin ep159

Episode Date: March 20, 2021

In a week of US stimulus checks flowing into Bitcoin, VISA’s merchant network opening its floodgates to Bitcoin, and SO much more signaling a perfect storm for Bitcoin’s takeover, today’s panel guests riff on what has them feeling bullish 🐂. 👉 MATT ODELL: BITCOIN AND PRIVACY ADVOCATE. HOST OF THE Tales from the Crypt & Citadel Dispatch PODCASTS. https://twitter.com/matt_odell 👉 Desiree Dickerson: Gaming Operations at MintGox. https://twitter.com/dickerson_des 👉 Dennis Porter: Expert in all-things Bitcoin who currently hosts "Deep Dive with Bitcoin Experts" in Cafe Bitcoin on Clubhouse. https://twitter.com/themachinebuilt 👉 Tony Cai: Co-Founder & CEO of Atomic.Finance and self-described Shitcoiner-turned-Bitcoiner 😉 https://twitter.com/TonyCai_ 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $25 free https://bit.ly/397rlLN Get Wasabi wallet for Bitcoin privacy https://wasabiwallet.io/ Cobo Vault: secure your Bitcoin! https://bit.ly/2GgMFlH BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 LIGHTNING tips: https://tippin.me/@BTCsessions Audio-only version of the show: https://anchor.fm/btcsessions Telegram channel: https://t.me/btc_sessions

What's going on everybody? Welcome to the show. It is Friday. That means we got ourselves another episode of Why Are We Bullish? We got a killer fucking panel today. I'm super stoked about this. I just got distracted. I've got my Twitter feed up right now.

And an account called Bitcoin Fuck Boy just posted laser tits. So I got a little bit dumbfounded on the side of my screen here. Anyways, welcome to the show. again, stoked to have you guys here. As always, this is live. Anything can happen. Quick disclaimer from my good friend Bill here. We'll do it live.

We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. I'm very excited for the panel today, by the way. We've got like near 150 people already in here. Smash that like button. Give this a share.

Let's get rolling. As always, I'm Ben with the BTCC. sessions. This is your daily session. All right, before we get going with this panel, let's take a look at where we are in the market. We're sitting at around $58,940 some odd dollars per coin. A single US dollar will pick you up 1,697 sats. Stack them while you can. 88.85% of all Bitcoin have been mined. And in terms of fees, not bad actually right now. Next block, 59 sats. per byte. If you're willing to wait an hour, around 20 sats per byte will do you.

Really quick before I bring in the panel. Of course, shout out to sponsors the show. Lend.io, you can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different things here. They've saved my ass on a couple times where I needed dollars, but I didn't want to sell my Bitcoin because taxable, worried about having a buyback and in a higher price. I was able to deposit, get dollars, pay that off, get back the same amount of Bitcoin, which for me is the important number. Of course, they got their savings accounts. They got their B2X offering.

Tons of great stuff. Check him out. Also, Maricio is a legend from there. So check out my interview with him. We talk all about coming from Venezuela and all that stuff. Again, super awesome guy. Up next, Kobo, one of my very favorite hardware wallets actually. I love this thing, air-gapped, Bitcoin-only firmware. You've got to upgrade to that.

Secure Element. I've been using it a lot with multi-sig alongside my cold card. And I just really like the way that you can do QR codes and everything. Never plug it into anything. Yeah, it's awesome. Check it out. Links for that down below. Bit refill, of course.

I'm living on Bitcoin. One of the ways I do that is bit refill. They have gift cards for pretty much everything you can imagine. And they accept on chain and lightning. So if you want those cheap, fast transactions, that's easy. You also do earn stats back in the process. So check them out. And finally, guys, please be careful.

I've been getting so many people. they did not back up their wallets well they put them on paper they threw it out they didn't realize it was important treat your backup seriously uh one of the ways that you can do that is to get it into steel then you're uh at least kind of mitigating against against the risk of fire water damage or like these people i've been talking to accidentally throwing it out so check out bill foddle over on privacyprose.io with that let's get into our panel let me get my screen up here we've got Matt O'Dell, Dennis Porter, Tony Kai, Desiree Dickerson. Welcome, guys. How are you doing?

Great days. Pretty good. Yes. Guys, this is a super chill, easy-to-do show. It's why are we bullish? There's so many reasons. The only difficult part of this show is narrowing it down. So we've got three, we go by the three R's here.

We give a reason, we riff on the reason, and then we rotate. Really, really easy. Really quick before we do that, let's go down the line for anybody that's watching. That's a noob that has no idea who's in the room here. Just give yourselves a quick intro and kind of what you do. I'll start with Matt, take it away. Who are you? What do you do? What's up, guys?

Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Name is Matt O'Dell. I just really like Bitcoin. Bitcoin privacy is my focus. and I do have a bunch of education resources and we have two shows that we do every week. And you can find those all at Matt O'Dell.com. Awesome.

Awesome. Let's jump to Dennis. Let people know who you are. What you do. How's it going? Dennis Porter. I recently became a full-time Bitcoin educator. I've been around since 2017.

Just following in the footsteps of great guys like Matt O'Dell and Ben over here, looking to continue to build up my. educational tools of a guide coming eventually here soon. But big fan of Clubhouse, that's where I spend most of my time. So if you want to listen in on me, just feel free to follow me over there. Awesome, awesome. Yeah, and we've had a couple chats on Clubhouse together. Always have a lot of fun there.

I heard Matt talking about it on TFTC the other day. It is a total time suck, dude. You got to choose which rooms you're in and why. And yeah, but it's a good resource. I can't imagine having that kind of a resource early on in Bitcoin being like, I'm just going to jump in a room and directly ask all these guys that like do podcasts. My exact question about Bitcoin. So we are orange-pilling people left and right on Clubhouse.

It's an incredible place for people to learn about Bitcoin. It's probably one of the things I'll talk about that I'm bullish about. Awesome, awesome. Des, let people know who you are, what you do. Yeah, I am the VP of Business Operations. at Lightning Labs. So that kind of means a lot of everything. Anything business related at Lighting Labs.

I'll also help out with a cool project called McGox, which is a monthly e-sports tournament that showcases games that are built on Bitcoin and Lightning. So that's like my favorite thing to talk about in Shell for sure. Awesome, awesome. And Tony, jump in. Let us know what you do. Hey, everyone.

I'm Tony. I'm one of the co-founders of Atomic. Dot Finance. Made a bit of a noise earlier this week, but basically what we're doing is we're building a super simply use mobile app for Bitcoin holders that care a lot about transparency, care a lot about self-custody,

to be able to deploy their Bitcoin in yield strategies that are fully non-custodial and transparent. Yeah, Matt, my co-founder, Matt was on with the Dennis yesterday on Clubhouse, and Dennis is, we're planning for Dennis to be our first beta user. So that's very much in the pants. The deal, the deal was made that I had to, I had to answer the question correctly. Who was the smarter co-founder? I caught at the tweet before you deleted it. But we'll see what the end of this show, which I choose. Yeah, but I had a great

time talking to Matt, man. He was, boom, he was on point. Aaron had a bunch of tough questions for him. And it was like, boom, boom, boom, he just answered them without a problem. And so I'm really excited about what you guys are doing over at Atomic. That's awesome. Yeah. You're right. We're a great moderator as well. Thank you. We've got people in the chat already telling us that it started pumping the moment we started the show. Somebody said they market bought when Matt popped that cork.

So kudos. Ben, can you set me up with an all-time high tomorrow for my birthday? I will do my best, Tapper of Yuvius. Absolutely. So we're going to get into it. I'm going to start with my reason for being bullish. and it kind of is similar to one I did, I don't know, probably a few months back. And it's about, I would say, the information asymmetry that's going on just everywhere.

Because everything seems just so ridiculously similar to 2017. There are definitely differences, like the drawdown of Bitcoin on exchanges, things like that. But like in terms of some of the bullshity scammy stuff that's happening in the background, that is so similar. It's just whatever the flavor of the week has happened to be. You know, ICOs replaced by defy and NFTs. But also in the people assuming that, you know, things will replace Bitcoin, that, you know, this is already the top. All of these assumptions as if it's not going to be so similar. to 2017, but so far it just has.

And the narratives that we're seeing on, on, you know, mainstream media, we're getting the same fud that's being recycled four years later. So I think my main reason for being bullish is just how hilariously similar this is to last time. And in my mind, I feel like we're going to have at least one more of these cycles. And if so, then the advantage that anybody who's been paying attention to, like anybody who's actually been paying attention over the past number of years or actually taking the time to look back historically what has happened, the advantage that you have is just so much more than anybody who's dismissive and not paying attention. In short, asymmetry. That's why I'm so fucking bullish right now. So I'm going to pass it down the line, get thoughts from everybody if they're feeling the same way about this, if they think it's different this time.

Let's start with Matt. Dude, what are you feeling? First of all, it's hilarious that everyone always says it's different this time. It's like the most perfect meme. And I mean, I guess the TLDR of your statement is the having isn't priced it, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Like it's it's who was it was it Joe? Joe Wisenthal that that had said that having isn't priced in and you quote tweeted him like a million times over. Yeah, I was a little aggressive with it, but I love Joe. Yeah, yeah. No, it's he's a professional troll so so he enjoys when he gets trolled back. Yeah, I've been I've been quote tweeting him a bunch lately with imagine tweeting this or imagine recommending listening to Stephanie Kelton was the one that I just retweeted.

What was the other one? He tweeted out the other day. He chirped back at you, right? He's like, I don't have to imagine. I tweeted it. He did. Yeah, it was great. I loved it.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I don't know. Like, I just, I feel like it's so similar. I feel like there's, there's, it's like the movie Groundhog Day where everybody's oblivious to it. And there's just a group of bitcoins being like, is, was this not, did this not just happen? Is this not the same thing? So I don't know. Dennis, are you?

Yeah, for me, it's like 2017 was my big first pump. And it felt like we, everyone was saying the same things. Oh, this is it. This is the last chance to get on board. We're going to reach escape velocity. Better take a heat lock out on your home and then mortgage yourself and go absolutely all in on debt. Because this is going to be your last opportunity to get in on Bitcoin. And I just don't see it that way.

because I think we've realized that this is going to keep happening over and over again. What is it like 1% of the global wealth is like in Bitcoin at this point? Like we are just leaving the dock in my opinion. And I think that that being said, I think we're still going to see Bitcoin as far as the price goes. I think we're going to absolutely see it surpass everyone's expectations, even probably ourselves because that's what always happens. It always goes to some crazy number.

And then that's when this is how you know it's done. where the true Bitcoiners like Matt O'Dell are like, maybe we are going to reach a scapilosity. That's when the price is going to crash. At $18,000, I was like hyper-biturinizations upon us. You crashed the price. It was your fault. Hold strong this time, Matt, hold strong.

That's not the only top that O'Dell has caused. I remember specifically a very drunk Matt O'Dell on the roof of the Bitcoin 2019 conference telling everybody to market buy, which if you did and you held, you're still way up. But that was the local top for that entire year. How long was it before we? Like a year and a half, two years or something.

It was a long time. People kept reminding me. They didn't let me forget. I can imagine. Des, how about you? What do you feel? Do you feel like this is kind of just a slight variations on a rehash of what happened in 2017? Yeah, it's madness.

It's like it's, but it's so much more of a shit show. I mean, like, this NFT thing is like, I think it might have been like the NFT fart, which like I totally support. Like that's probably the best NFT out there. Like also like I am not into knocking things unless I try them minus like heroin. And so, you know, I'm like, I'm trying, I'm currently in the process of trying to buy this NFT from this artist I love and it's like a disaster like it's a total disaster he has an nfti boy who's like hustling me on like rareable and I'm like I don't know what's going on but like

the artist doesn't understand what the fuck is going on and like it's like he's like well I'll send you a physical a physical copy as well and I was like do you not get the point like it's such a shit show so like I don't know at lighting labs was like you know Elizabeth has all about like we don't look at the price like we want to build we want it to be low so we can like be quiet and build so i don't know i mean i'm definitely being distracted on twitter are you getting a lot less shit done right now oh yeah 100 percent like it's just like i i can't even concentrate like math's like all over twitter with cap locks and like my brain is basically scrambled eggs at this point but like i'm so bullish and then honestly like um

I was like the guys at Bitcoin Magazine and Celia from Zebedee and I played CSGO for like a few hours. The other night was like the Zebedee's infused product and it was like insane. Because like I've done it before but like I always get like totally poned by like these like little boys who like say horrible things to me. So like this was the first time I had fun doing it. I was like this is it. This is the future. Like, it's like ubiquitous lighting, ubiquitous Bitcoin. It's like it's happening.

And I think it might be soon. I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's interesting that, I mean, it's inevitable. But with every when Bitcoin pumps, when Bitcoin goes up and and starts getting into like a manic kind of, you know, we surpass all time highs and people get, get crazy about things. Obviously, it's. and unfortunately it's going to come with all the scammy bullshit because people always want to tag onto the success of that. And because it's so cyclical and it comes in those spurts, then it's easy for people to forget or people that just never got involved in the first place not to realize what all the scamy bullshit that came before was and not to see the exact copy pasta bullshit that's happening.

It's unfortunate, but it's just going to take to the point where literally everyone has used Bitcoin and fallen down that shitcoin rabbit hole once or twice or seen and heard enough of their friends to have succumb to it that until everybody in the world more or less understands why Bitcoin is important, you're just going to see it repeat over and over again, I think. Anyways, let's let's let Tony speak a little bit, dude. How are you feeling about this cycle? Is it feeling like it's repeating a little bit? We had a good, speaking of not falling down the shit coin rabbit hole, you and I had an interview and you told me about your kind of story of being big into Heath previously and then like all the realizations you had of being like, oh, wow, I'm going to work on Bitcoin.

So you might have some unique insight here. I think it's very, I mean, like, the issue is like basically the new people that first come in, they don't know better, right? And so basically, you know, like, like, I think similar to Dennis, like 2017 was my first real bull cycle. And obviously the flashy things were the, where the, like, were the, like, crypto kitties, where all those, like all that kind of stuff, right? Like all the, all the ICOs and stuff like that. That was the flashy stuff. That was where like people were making like crazy amounts of money in a matter of days, etc. Et cetera, et cetera. And, and, you know, obviously, like, you know, once, once you go through one whole cycle, like, that's when you actually learn, like, what is the real value prop here? What is the, what are the things that actually has staying power, right? And, and obviously, you know, for the real unfortunate people are some of my, a select few of my friends who got screwed by the ICO stuff last time and still going down the same NFD, that stuff like that. Those people, I'm really kind of trying to really, really, you know, correct some, correct their behavior there. But like, basically, you know, it is, it does feel similar. And, you know, whenever you, I mean, sometimes on Twitter, you also hear this.

I don't know what it is with some Ethereum, Ethereum, who really feel the need to, like, say, like, oh, eph is sound money or eph is ultrasound money. I think you guys saw, you guys probably saw that. I'm like, what are you guys talking about? Like, why do you feel the need to really like try to claim Bitcoin's value property? It's very clear what Bitcoin's value prop has always been quite clear for a while now. And I don't know. I don't know what it is. It's like, it's like, Eith is struggling to find its own value prop kind of thing.

And it's just kind of repeating itself. Well, guys, didn't you hear that Ethereum's getting more scarce, guys. It's getting more scarce because it's been decreed. It's been also to have Tony and Matthew who moved over from Ethereum. So did you have the similar story, Tony, of you were working together with Matthew on a project over it. It was Ethereum and Bitcoin, right? And then eventually there were some big good bitcoinsers on the team who Matthew wouldn't even name because they're like so all in on Bitcoin and the Opsack. But eventually this guy convinced Matthew.

Did he convince you also? Was it the same kind of story for you? So he, it was a chain. So he convinced Matthew and then Matthew convinced me at the end of the day. So I was like the last dominant to fall. And then and then that was that was when we were like, hey, yeah, Bitcoin's the way to go and, and whatnot. But yeah, it took it took too long for me, to be honest, to make that full switch. Yeah.

Hey, everybody has their moment, right? That's all good. So I think, I think the consensus here is, uh, this is basically, you know, know, another, we're just driving around the block seeing the same scenery pretty much. So anybody out watching out there, this time is not different is the consensus here. Someone asked in the chat, you know, what's the problem with holding good alts? You know, in the, first of all, every, I believe that every single asset in this world is trending to zero when priced in Bitcoin. Here's, here's the good answer.

The problem is, there are no good altz. But besides that fact, and what Tony kind of hit the nail on the head there is in these short term time periods, scams pump the hardest. They pump the hardest. If you somehow magically are able to buy the bottom and sell the top, you're going to have a lot more Bitcoin. And people have a tendency to think that they're smarter than the rest of the market and they're going to be able to do that. And they usually need a whole cycle to realize like, oh, the scams did pump the hardest and then they dumped the hardest. and now anyone was caught holding those bags has way less Bitcoin, right? And so usually it takes at least one cycle for someone to realize that.

Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait for next week going to do a takedown. We're going to take down Ethereum, which is like what? That's the only theoretically some people claim is the good alt. So I'm really pumped about that. Matt would be more than happy to have you on the deep dive show on Clubhouse. We are just going to absolutely rip this thing wide open for all of the community to see on an economic side and on a technical side.

I think it really needs to be done at this point. Obviously, Tony would be great to be there too, man. You were, you were a shit, you're a shit coin insider. You know. That's a show. That's Guy Swan does a show called shitcoin insider, where they review what the hell's going on with all the shit coins. It's great.

Yeah, it's, it does seem very similar. But let's, let's round this out. I feel like we're pretty much in consensus that it's more of the same. This time is not different. And if you're smart, you can use that to your advantage by just staying the course, stacking sats, and sit back and relax, you know, enjoy the ride. So let's move on to our next reason for being bullish. Before we do that, of course, we've got like 170 people watching live.

Smash, like, give this a share. Let's get even more people watching. And keep commenting because I'm seeing great comments in here. We love them. I'm going to jump to Matt. Dude, what is your reason for being bullish this week? So it actually fits perfectly with your reason. Although this time is not different in terms of Bitcoin cycles, it is very different in terms of Bitcoin-only education and content.

And there's an insane amount. We have like, through this bear market, we basically, a bunch of us have built out this Bitcoin-only content. content network that just didn't exist last cycle. And there's like this whole subculture now around responsible dollar cost averaging and then taking self custody of those stats and then using your own node while you why you use those stats. And like that's crazy. That just didn't exist before. And I think people are really, you know, fortunately we're getting a bunch of newcomers that get to skip that that burn period where they don't have to get burned in a cycle before they realize. So that's good for them.

And then second of all, I think it's going to, it could make the intensity of this cycle larger. Like I think we might have more upside. It might go for a little bit longer because you have this floor of like humble sat stackers that are coming in and they're withdrawing their sats from the exchanges. They're pulling them off. They're holding them in their own keys. And they have no intention of selling. Like it's literally a one way street. They just go into sats and they expect at some point in the future they're going to spend it.

but they're never going to sell it. And that never really, we didn't have that last cycle. Yeah, I agree. So what you're saying is we can all get rich by just staying humble. So is what you're getting at? Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Dennis, go ahead. No, it's so accurate.

I mean, it's like the people that are coming in now, I get to have all the bumps and bruises that we went through. Like, you know, it was like there's no flippinging. Like, nobody's that are worried about Bitcoin being flippant. Like that's not even a conversation anymore. I really, really think that like I was going to talk about earlier, it was a clubhouse thing, man.

It's like these people are coming in and learning about Bitcoin and then they're not learning about anything else. That's it. Like they're just learning about Bitcoin in these cafe, Bitcoin rooms. There's like a couple other ones, but they're great out there. Yeah, 100%.

And to your point, like I've, you know, there's people in the chat right now. Like they're running nodes. Like that was not a thing that people really understood last cycle. It was not a regular occurrence to see people posting pictures of the nodes that they just spun up. And all the projects, all the projects that they all came up after in the in between.

My node, umbral, all of that. Like, it's, it's so great. And lightning itself is so much easier to to work with over the past few years. I mean, yes, we have a long way to go in terms of usability and like making this easy. for people to use, but now, like, I mean, there's, like Matt said, there's so many projects where people are, like, hacking away, getting, like, normie users. Like, my dad literally uses the fold card. He's so addicted to it.

Like, he called me and was like, does. Let me explain Sats to you. Okay. Like, he, dad explained it to me, and I was like, got it, dad. Thank you for informing me. And, like, the point is, like, yeah, all so easy. Like, I mean, does anybody even, I don't even remember what Walla I was using in, like, 2017. But, like, I'm sure, like, yeah, exactly.

Like, just imagine how far we've come. And, like, I mean, we host these things at Lightning Labs called, like, Roundtable, where we get, like, all the projects in, like, one space. Now it's virtual, but, like, online. And, I mean, in Berlin at the Lightning Conference, we had 30 people in 2019. Now I have, like, 150 people who come to these, like, these round tables. So that means like, I mean, just the projects alone in the past like year and a half have like, you know, grown that much just in Lightning alone. So it's like, you know, I think not only

are the projects growing, but like we're really, really like kind of chipping away at the usability piece. Yes, yes, there's like a lot of progress to be made. But like, I mean, even Zebedee's wallet, I realize it's custodial. But like for onboarding new users, I mean, they're using the LN URL, like static QR code and people are putting it in their like streams when they're playing games and you can tip really easily so like yeah I mean not and nothing's perfect yet but like we're slowly slowly getting there and experimenting and you know a lot of people call this like the Cambrian explosion explosion time and like let us not forget the Cambrian explosion only lasted for 20 million years like if you've ever taken significant evolutionary biology which is very very short amount of time so it's

There's going to be a lot of experimentation. You know, people are going to be playing around a lot. And a lot of it's not going to work and that's fine. But like what results after that 20 million years is like much, much evolutionary progress. And like stronger projects, we're going to have like better products. So I think, you know, with all with this bull run and all this hype and all this attention in the space, like we're going to have more projects. But in the end, we're going to have better products. So I'm super.

super bullish for that reason. That's so true. Like you see not, you know, it's a lot of noise during the bull runs, but there's also a lot of money and funding that comes into it. And the bullshit projects and, you know, garbage scams that can't sustain themselves when there's not a constant influx of new money, they disappear. But the good projects, they proliferate and they like so much building happened over the last bear market.

And it was an incredible time. You know, I had some friends that kind of came in as, you know, as the last bull run, it was kind of like coming to an end like January. In fact, one of them is in in the chat right now. He was, I pulled up a couple of his. But he got in like January of 2018 and he rode out the whole bear market. But it was probably the best thing for him because it gave him so much time to focus in and realize what was actually important without nearly as much noise.

and nearly as many distractions. It was beautiful for him. It really worked out. And now he's like much better off, much happier. You know, he's definitely on the verge of, you know, working for himself and not having to, you know, having a better life. So I'm really glad that that timing worked out. I basically did the same thing in the cycle where I joined in. I was coming off the top of a bull run, but then through 2014, 15, 16, it was such a great time to start learning.

And like one of my favorite creators at the time, Vortex, he was such, he was so integral to my learning and avoiding all the missteps of, of like falling down, as Canute said, the shit coin shit hole instead of the shit coin rabbit hole. But that's what I'm saying, right? Like back then, we only had like a couple, a couple content creators that were creating Bitcoin only quality content that was available for all for free. Now we have way too much content, not too much, but like way more content than you could ever listen to, ever watch, ever read. We have guides for every type of little thing. And then at the same exact time, you have all these open source projects that are flourishing and they have no shit coin support. It's the craziest thing that there's no central coordination here. And we watched all of this explode in the last three years. And the majority of people on the planet have no idea. Yeah. Yeah, I was very lucky. When I first came in in 2016, 2017, so here, Andreas as like one of the first people that I heard speak about Bitcoin. The other one was Richard Hart, but it was fun to watch him kind of spiral out of control.

I was like, man, I really trusted this guy. He's really lost it now at this point. Yeah, it was funny to see his capitulation. anybody watching back in the previous kind of bull run there's this guy Richard Hart and he came out like full on Bitcoin Maxi at the time and it seemed like he was kind of in line like understood everything and he was like okay this this is what makes sense and then he got wrecked because he was he was doing some Dgen trading he was like leveraged longing and he thought that it was just going to keep on going forever and he just got totally fucking wrecked and And then he got, it seemed like he kind of got angry about that. And then just like in an instant, he was like, fuck it. I'm making a shit coin on Ethereum.

And I'm just going to pump it. And he like all of these buzzwords for it. He called like pumpamentals and all this shit. And he just went off the rails. Anyways, uh, dude's a scammer. Don't buy hex. Um, sorry, Tony, I've been taking up your time. Do you want to add commentary on like quality of content out there?

things have changed. Oh, you're muted, dude. You guys, I think you guys have pretty much covered everything I wanted to say. But like, yeah, I mean, the wealth of Bitcoin centric content, Bitcoin only content is certainly a lot, lot better than when I first joined the space. I think that, I think that, yeah, like, like to your point about, to your point about like running your own node, it's so easy to set up like an umbrella now. It's crazy, right? And like basically like, you know, it's before when it was like perceived that, oh, only the, only the techiest of techies like can can like actually really actually like fully become your own self-sovereign Bitcoiner and run your own node and that kind of stuff is the barrier

of access to that has been dramatically decreased. And that's amazing, right? And you're never going to be able to do that with Ethereum because like you need like a huge supercomputer to actually run your own node or with even. some of the more egregious, less centralized or less decentralized chains out there. Bitcoin's really the only one that you can do that. And I think all those points make me incredibly bullish on Bitcoin for sure. Awesome.

I love it. We're going to keep rolling down the line. We're going to go for another reason for being bullish. There's like 200 people here. Smash like. Give this a share. Let's get even more people watching. Thanks for the stream of constant comments coming in.

Good to see you guys here. Let's jump to Dennis, dude. What has you feeling bullish this week? Oh, man, it's probably the same thing that has me feeling bullish every week. And that is this new app that I play with every day called Clubhouse. It is an incredible app. We are orange-pilling people. We are indoctrinating people.

We have a Sunday Satoshi service with Padre John. Like, it's a full-blown religion at this point. Like, sorry about it. These rooms don't stop. Oftentimes, they just go all day. It's like better than a conference because you're literally just skipping the part where you listen to someone who is smarter than you. And you're just getting in a room and talking to people one-on-one, basically is what it feels like. Anybody can come up and ask questions.

It's an incredible device. I think it's going to absolutely change the amount of like that base layer, you know, of hoddler we have. This is the base layer of hoddlers. And then when Clubhouse came out, it was like this. It's just going straight up. So I'm super bullish about it. I think that it's taking more and more Bitcoin off the market and putting it into permanent long-term,

you know, hoddling wallets more faster than ever before. And I couldn't possibly be more bullish about it. I mean, that's how I met you, dude. Like, that's how I met you. That's how I'm on the show right now. Like, I just started, there were a lot of Bitcoin education like a month ago.

Yeah, go ahead, sorry. Yeah, I was going to say there's a lot of Bitcoiners that I just didn't know previously that were like kind of front and center there that were like good solid bitcorners that just I didn't know from basically Twitter where everybody was and still is. But like I just there was a lot of really great commentary that I wasn't expecting to hear from like a different platform. So I mean, don't get me wrong. There's absolutely like trash NFT rooms and stuff like that. But you can get into some excellent rooms and there's some good conversations.

And I love seeing the nubes coming through there and getting funneled into those rooms and going, oh, okay, this is the other thing. And I guess this kind of tags on to Matt's reason is that the narrative across all of these different content creators and mediums and, you know, things like Clubhouse when it comes to Bitcoiners, it's just so incredibly consistent everywhere. Whereas when it comes to like the shit corner narratives, they're all over the place, right? It's like this is better than everything else because we want to pump this thing. But then something over here is saying, no, no, no, no, this is better than everything else. Whereas like Bitcoin is pretty much like this is what you're looking for. This is the whole reason for things being here in the first place, the reason for Bitcoin to exist. And it's not like, it's not, I mean, other than the joking like sell your chairs.

most of the advice actually being thrown out there is like, hey, you know, take your time. Learn the ropes. You know, you got to learn about security. You know, it's not like, you know, pump and then dump at the right time. It's like, no, this is a long-term savings plan. It should be treated as such. The narrative is so much more cohesive, I think. The strongest example of that was Sailor coming into the space.

Sailor came into the space. And he basically just like, since he came into the space, he just repeats the party line over and over again. It's just like the same, it's like the same information distilled and perspective distilled and just like a very easy to digest away. It's very, very, very strong narratives. Dennis, I'm curious on your opinion here on Clubhouse since you brought it up. Do you think that it's a platform that is more prone to like affinity scamming and shit-cornery because of because people don't. feel because it's more personal.

I feel like it's twofold. It's more personal because you're talking to them in words. So like people have a tendency to let them keep talking rather than call them out for it. And then second of all, it's a femoral technically, even though there's probably a bunch of state agencies recording it and advertising companies recording all those conversations. Technically, it disappears right away. So there's no record of the shit coining. Like on Twitter, if I said something that the hive mind disliked,

45 years ago, like they can go back to it and they can call it out, they can tweet stamp it, they can post everything that I said that was wrong, right? But with clubhouse, you don't have that.

Yeah, so you kind of hit the nail on the head. I was wondering, when you asked the beginning, I could kind of see where you're, and you actually literally hit the nail on the head. There is a small problem on Clubhouse where because there's no record,

there's no record, which I kind of like that a little bit. That aspect, it's a feature, but it does allow these people, people to come in and talk and an affinity scam. They get, if you don't know what affinity scamming is out there, it's basically where someone comes in and they say, hey, I love Bitcoin and they make friends with you.

And then they're like, hey, look at my shit coin. And because you're friends with them, you're like, oh, I trust this person now. I'm going to go, maybe I should go check out. In the club house case, specifically like being on stage in like a popular Bitcoin room. So we've actually done a lot of work recently. So I have, well, there's two clubs that I really focus on because I really think they've done, well, one is mine, but one is Cafe Bitcoin. They have like this admin page where we do a really good job of communicating and making sure that we are staying on top of stuff like that.

So there's some really great leaders in that group that have made the number one project to make sure that affinity scamming is not allowed to occur. I mean, here's the thing. You know Bitcoiners, man. It's like the moment someone comes on stage and they start talking, the moment they say one little tiny thing wrong and it's really easy to say something wrong when you're talking. You know right away. You know right away. I see it coming. I know it's going to happen.

Either this person is super new and ignorant, right? I hate to say the word ignorant, but they're super new and they just are unaware of what the truth is in this situation or they're a scammer. So immediately 50 people go start looking at all their social media platforms because they're linked. And unfortunately sometimes some people that may be good bitcoiners in their heart, but they promote chip coins on their social media platforms. They get ousted pretty quickly. And we do a pretty good job, I think, of moderating that. But it is something that we do have to be aware of at all times because affinity scammers. are real, I mean, it is probably the number one type of scamming, and it's unfortunate that

we have these scammers, but we do try to do a really good job of toning that down. Yeah, that's fair. Des, have you dove into the clubhouse realms yet? I got a unpopular opinion. I don't love clubhouse. I know, I know. I mean, I do see it as a super useful tool. Ryan and I created this

You know we have something called The Lightning Lab which is Ryan Gentry and I is like Skunk Works project Where we just like hey like you know How do we bring this to more people? How do we onboard new devs? And so we decided to create this clubhouse room like I mean it's been a while now we do it weekly and it's been an absolute I mean you know I give it credit where credits do

It's been an amazing tool for like reaching new people onboarding new people I mean obviously our group is like a little bit more technical, really focused at developers who are trying to build on L&D. But I just like, you know, I think it's, I mean, it's very ephemeral. I think it's like very, you know, on vogue right now, given the pandemic and like, you know, the lack of being able to be in person. I mean, I don't know.

But I just hate being always on. And I hate that it's like less of curated content. Like for me, it's like I love putting on a podcast, being able to go about my business. But it's like I jump at a clubhouse room. Someone puts me on the stage. And it's like they're asking me questions. And now I'm like in the shower, which has happened. And it's like, holy shit.

I got to like jump out of the shower. I'm like, oh, yeah, like respond to something. I mean, it's interesting. When you're on the toilet for a few hours, you have to like time. Yeah, when you're on clubhouse for a few hours, if like time when you go to the bathroom. It's like, I've been hosting some of these rooms, and I'm like, okay, I really have to go to the bathroom.

And so I have to like time when I go. I get someone to like ask a question. And then I'm like, all right. You're right. I'm sorry to interrupt you that does right. I just wanted to throw that in there. No, no, no. I feel you.

But I mean, I think it's an interesting tool. Like, I think it's like, okay, maybe we should start like branching out to like these other avenues of communicating and reaching people rather than just like the shit show that has become crypto Twitter. I mean, I don't really know what that looks like. I mean, Ryan and I have toyed around with like, I mean, now we have like a really, really engineering focused Discord server with like a voice chat every couple weeks,

like an office hours. You're playing around with like doing some stuff on Twitch. Like I set my umbrella note up on Twitch and, you know, had people, like I do my makeup on there as well. So like I'm just like trying and bring you different audiences. So, I mean, yeah, I think it's just like, you know, we live in the age of like, you know, every company is their own media company. And so I think it's like an interesting tool.

And, you know, I do think that there's a lot of really, really well curated groups like Dennis, you do a great job. You know, the folks at Swan Bitcoin have done incredible work. And like they've helped us a time, Ryan and myself out a ton with our group. But, I mean, I don't know. Like I just got to step away from it. It's not my favorite. I got to be honest.

I mean, the two things that I love about it and I totally see the negatives on Clubhouse. I definitely can see the points that you've made. For me personally, it launched like right as I was deciding to kind of get out there and be an educational person around Bitcoin. So at the timing was kind of perfect for me. And it really helped me kind of grow my audience in that way.

So for me, obviously, there's some personal selfish. reasons for why I like Clubhouse. But two things that I really do like about it, aside from the downsides, is that the debates are live. And Bitcoiners always win because we have the best arguments and because what we're saying is the truth. So people are able to come in these rooms and they're able to hear the back and forth. And they're just like, wow, it's so easy to choose which side I want to be on. I think the other big thing really, too, is the authenticity that you can hear in people's voices like you Desiree and Matt O'Dell. Obviously, I've heard your voice many, many times on your podcast. And I think that when you can listen to the debate and you can hear the

argument and you can hear the authenticity, I just think it really bypasses that whole educational curve for some people, some newbies and really just plugs them. Like it's like downloading. I call it a matrix style download of information. And so it just really just plugs people in and gets them going right away. And for me, it works really well, but it's definitely not a tool that works great for everybody. You definitely have to have a lot of time on your hands. Luckily, I haven't, I don't work like for a blockchain company. I don't, I'm not working on developing Bitcoin.

And I bow down to all the big people that do do that because that's the real work that needs to be done. But for me, I just want to educate people. And so it's a great tool for me. Wait, I got an idea. And I actually got this idea on,

um, your podcast, Matt. Um, and, um, because I love Paul, a toy and everything he does. Like I'm obsessed with him.

I met up with him in Utah. and I went away and I was like, I have to change the world. Like, this guy has inspired me. Why do we move these things to Clubhouse? Like, Paul put it out there. Like, I actually have a tweet draft that I haven't got around to tweeting that because I have been working a little bit today. Why don't we move some of these conversations to Sphinx?

And, like, you know, put our sats where our mouths are or whatever you would say and, like, start doing some education on Sphinx. Like, that's what I'm doing. You know, it's super promising and I love Sphinx and I'm excited for it. The Android app is still very not stable. That's what I heard. And it's, it is not easy to onboard people yet. I like, we have, like Marty, I love Marty.

Marty's my brother. Okay. But Marty gets very hyped and very excited about Sphinx. And he hipes up all the freaks about Sphinx. And then they all jump in my DMs and they're like, how do I get into your room? You know? And they just can't. We cannot meet the demand right now.

So it seems a little unfair. And I think even this is a main complaint I have with Clubhouse as well. And Clubhouse doesn't even have the hometown hero effect where like I want to support Sphinx like a fuckton. Like we were the one of the first podcasts that that has a Sphinx tribe. But with Clubhouse, like if you don't have an iPhone, you can't use it. So it's intentionally like inclusionary with with, thinks that's not the case it's just because it's beta so you know obviously it'll get better over

time and i'm very excited for it but something like this chat um you know i ben is streaming it out through how many platforms are you streaming out through two three uh right now too but like you know i i used to have it going out to like facebook and a whole bunch of other places too dispatch i have going out to twitch twitter and youtube it's recorded and then you're able to download the full videos for free afterwards and audio afterwards either through a podcast feed through keybase through telegram like it's able to get out to way more people um so i'd be 100% down to do it through sphinx if at least at the very least i could export it afterwards you know if i could easily export the whole thing afterwards then then we i mean rhr we would move rhr right away move it over to

swings all right it's a little early but like just putting the idea out there then i'm ready i'm ready Let's fucking do it. Matt, you said you said you're not a big fan of Clubhouse either, but you know, I've seen Max Kaiser using it in a very interesting way, which is where Cafe Bitcoin kind of airs his podcast in a room and for people to just listen in to kind of broaden your audience. And then what you can do is you can have an after party where you can come into the clubhouse and you can actually get with people. I think that's been working really well for the Orange Pill podcast. Yeah. Maybe you want to look into. I've had, I've had, I've got a dedicated iPhone just to see.

what was going on with Clubhouse. I was curious about. I'm an Android user. I'm like an addicted Android user. I have like four different phones right now. Like two of them are running graph feed. One's running stock. The other ones are running Calix.

And then I also got an iPhone so that I could do Clubhouse. I actually have experimented the opposite way where, you know, I've been consulting for Bitcoin Magazine and they did a couple clubhouse rooms that I felt bad that other people couldn't access them. So I was rebroadcasting the Clubhouse room out to Twitter. because everyone was on Twitter and Twitter is multi-platform. It's literally, like, if I want to broadcast into Clubhouse for my podcast, I have to, like, put my iPhone next to it and manually have it on, like, speakerphone.

And then if I do it the opposite way, like, I literally took this mic and I just put it right next to my iPhone on speakerphone, and that's how I broadcast it out. It's, like, not native, right? And I know that once again, it's early, right? It's low-hanging fruit for them. Like all they need to do, a massive boost for them is if they just have easy export functions or easy import functions, right? Like Ben uses this platform stream yard. He's got like buttons that he presses that enables his YouTube, enables his Twitter, you know, like there should be a clubhouse button.

And then it just broadcast over it. Yeah. Yeah. I think they definitely have like a control issue over there at clubhouse. Like they're really controlling the way things are done. But I think that Cafe Bitcoin has done too is they do, they stream. it live on YouTube as we're doing it. So we usually have like Brecky or someone over there trying to stream it. So there's lots of options, but I just thought it'd be something that you might want to

look into just because Max Geyser Seeming Geerted it out. I just thought it was a cool model that he put forward and he's been using very effectively to grow and to communicate directly with his audience. Sorry, Ben, you want your go ahead. The thing is I like the live chat. The live chat's the best part, right? So if I rebroadcast out the clubhouse, I have no idea what like I, it's, it's too analog. It's not like I'm not communicating with that audience, right? Like the coolest part about a live show to me is the direct

audience participation. And because it's so the way that you have to do that setup, like it's just lost. It's just like a broadcast method. It's one way. For me, it ends up being like, I want to hang out with bitcoins.

And that's just like my outlet. It basically gives me kind of like what I get on Twitter. but I get to like have semi, you know, actual human interaction, which is like I, I think everybody's just fucking missing actually talking to people right now. And like us is like being in the space actually get to have some of those conversations,

especially making content. Thank God because I'd be going insane. But like everybody's dying for meetups. I like Bitcoin 2021 can't come fucking soon enough. Holy shit. I'm so stoked for it. But yeah, like for me, it's just, it's an outlet to be able to. And also I really just, I really love seeing that aha moment come out of people as like shit gets explained to them or at least hearing it where they're like, oh, oh shit, I get that.

And like, I love that moment when it happens for people. So I don't know. Like, Tony, have you, what kind of outlets do you have? Like, are you, obviously you're on Clubhouse the other day. Like, what, what are you feeling? And why are people drawn to this stuff? Yeah, I mean, one thing I know is that Apple's got to be pretty happy with Clubhouse being being iOS only. I'm sure they've been breaking some market share from the Bitcoiners.

I think like, I think like for for Clubhouse, like my thing about it is that if I if I'm going there, it's one thing to be obviously like, you know, one of the speakers or whatever. But like if I'm going there to learn from some folks as well, the issue is that like I always. I'm one of those people that likes listening to things at 1.5 or 2x speed. And that's obviously not possible on clubhouse. Everyone except for Olau. For him, I need to listen at 0.75. That's the max I can do. But, you know, so that's the issue there that I found.

And it's just hard to be always on. In fact, I was chatting with a few just like casual conversations with some VCs and whatnot. And they were like, yeah. So I've been like, trying. I've been noticing some of my portfolio founders being on Clubhouse like 24-7 and that like has me greatly concerned. So like yeah, but it's interesting. Like I think clubhouse like I think it's it's very obviously like to Ben's point, especially without the conferences, without that stuff. It's been a fantastic like little gathering place, right, just for Bitcorners to share ideas.

And to your point, previously, Ben, about, about like, like everyone, how everyone in Bitcoin is just like, they're always like speaking on party lines. They're always kind of presenting a united friend. And that's such a difference from like my chikwinery days. Like it's so different. Like if we were having this kind of discussion, like, you know, with a kind of a checkpoint panel, everyone would be coming in with their own agenda. that everyone's trying to really like, you know, like show their coin in one way or another. And whereas in Bitcoin, everyone's just working to increase the value of Bitcoin. And that's why I love about this community, right?

Like everyone is united on that. And I think that's been one of the biggest differences from, from shit coin, shikornery to Bitcoin. So I think that's been an interesting thing for me. 100%. So I think we'll round out this one. I guess no specific consensus. I guess I'm the only one that likes it.

Mark your bullish theory. I love it. I think I just jump on there and I have fun all the time. And I think it'll be a net positive for the nobs that are using it, assuming they get into some solid room. So anyways. I'm not saying it's not bullish. I mean, the key to Ben's show here,

that he doesn't want to admit to his audience, I presume, is that literally everything is bullish for Bitcoin. Yeah, everything. You can say anything in here, and it would be bullish. Everything is good for Bitcoin. Yes, absolutely. And everything, Bitcoin fixes everything. That's not bullish.

So we're going to keep rolling here. Guys, thanks for being in the chat, dropping all your comments and everything. Keep them coming. Smash like button. Give this a share. We're going to move on to our next reason. We're going to pass it to Des. What has you feeling bullish this week?

Oh man, I guess it wasn't last week. I guess it wasn't this week. It was last week. Just OKCoin announcing their full lightning integration was a big win in our court. You know, I think that's like been something Ryan and I have been thinking about for a very long time is onboarding exchanges to the Lightning Network. So I'm super bullish on seeing that. You know, we obviously have a lot in the works. I'm really excited to, you know, get things rolling with, you know, exchanges like Paxville

who have like these amazing, amazing user bases who could definitely be life-changing just to have, you know, deposits and withdrawals on lightning. So I am just incredibly bullish on exchanges and lightning. I think that's just like an incredible progress for the entire ecosystem. So that's like, do you think that one? So I have a question for you. Do you think that this is the run where it becomes more or less a necessity to implement it? Like I feel like last run, it was like, okay, Segwa gets implemented.

And then every exchange was like, holy shit, fees, we're going to, like, we got to do something. And like now the transaction per second narrative is fucking out the window. for alts, right? Like, it's just dead. And so it kind of seems like it's coming to the point, like any exchange that isn't doing batching, you're getting raked over the fucking coals for a withdrawal. Like it's, they'll cover maybe a tiny portion of it if they do. And then you're like, oh shit, 20 bucks, 20 bucks, 30 bucks to get my coins out. It just, it seems totally unnecessary. So do you think it gets to that point where it's like, if you don't have lightning on your exchange, you're at a huge disadvantage? Yeah. And,

it's been really interesting actually you know before we kind of launched this this whole um initiative like on our bd front um like a couple quarters ago was like okay the exchanges will get it they they're they're they're they're like this is a no-brainer to them but like it's been interesting because that's not actually the case like these exchanges are making like boo-coo box on like shit coins i mean they don't care like these fees mean nothing to them however you know where you know where the demand is coming from is from users like you know they are the ones who are fee sensitive they're the ones who want um lighten withdrawals like and they're really the ones who are kind of pushing these integrations so like that's been really easy to or interesting to see that there's like this the way we thought

it was going to evolve is not been what we've actually witnessed um but i actually kind of like it better this way like i'm like okay cool like i mean it makes such a better business case um you know for us to pitch it to exchanges that way. Last cycle, we didn't have Bitcoin only like broker, we didn't have as much Bitcoin only like brokerages and on ramps and stuff. Those like those Bitcoin only places, stuff like cash app, bull Bitcoin, Swan, like

they have a direct incentive to implement lightning and liquid and try and reduce their fees batching, all these different things, Segwit. But like as you said, like a perfect example is Binance, right? And we're seeing him, it's kind of funny because he's doing it to Ethereum. But he also does it to Bitcoin is they charge a single flat fee to withdraw from their

exchange if you withdraw Bitcoin or Eath. And it's a very high fee. He chooses a fee that it's almost like predatory. He's like picking a fee that is like 40% higher than he ever really needs to do. And he makes it flat. And then if you withdraw with his token instead, like your fees are just very low. You know, so there's definitely a disincentive on that side. but on the Bitcoin-only side, I mean, they have the strongest incentive ever.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. It's definitely a little bit more of a challenge with the, you know, non-Bitcoin-only exchanges. But, yeah, I mean, we're making progress. Yeah. Most of the exchanges in Canada, well, the ones that have, obviously, like, that have the easiest access that have, like, native apps and stuff like that, all of those, the Bitcoin withdrawals are

ridiculous. Like they, the exception would be shake pay because they actually batch and they actually cover any because they actually, they do it efficiently. And so they cover you with draw fee. So it's like the only, you know, in terms of companies that have multiple coins on them, yeah, most of them, it's like, yeah, either your fee is not covered. We'll cover up to five bucks of it. And then the rest is like on you. And we charge a flat. I've seen a lot of the flat fee where it's like, oh, yeah, it's 0.003, which is, it ends up being like 15, 20, 30. I didn't even know what it, I didn't even know what that translates to right now with it being. I'm so not used to like the $10,000 mark.

It was so easy to calculate now. It's just out the window. I have no idea. Now you just use 100K. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, an estimate down. Yeah, okay. That's fair.

Yeah. I'm super stoked. to see this happen. I'm super stoked to see Lightning. Like somebody was saying in you know, Crack and also, you know, Pierre Richard working hard to keep his job to make sure lightning is implemented. A ton of them

have, you know, have announced, like they just haven't like fully implemented yet. But isn't Coin Corners in Canada, right? No, they're in the UK. I actually just had the whole team run last week for Why Are We Bullish. And yeah, they... That's what it was because you're Canadian. And I'm getting it all... Because you all have like, come on

at Gox and I'm getting everybody's tribes mixed up. But yeah, they're doing you know what I need this is unrelated but you know what I need is I need a looping white noise track of just Odell popping corks

to fall. My bullish track for bull markets. Cool. Does anybody have anything else to say about lightning being added? jump in. I did not know that that incentive there though

Matt that you brought up. I think that's such a key point where these exchanges, especially Binance, don't want to move over to Lightning because they have this incentive to push people using their utility token, which is the BNB coin. And it's like why would they ever want to implement Lightning?

They're going to just end up losing money on this token that they've created. And so that's, I think that is a really interesting point to bring up when you're discussing why these exchanges are not moving over. But what's beautiful here is because we have these Bitcoin-only services that are prioritizing. I mean, I left that River too. River has been on the fucking forefront in terms of trying to implement everything.

They're like, River is like what Coinbase should have been if they didn't go down the shit coin rabbit hole. And they're just becoming a fucking powerhouse over there. And what's happening is those services are providing the necessary incentive pressure to these big guys. Like, OK Coin, if you hear OK Coin talk about it, what they want for the services. their US arm is they've historically been, you know, a full exchange trading outfit where you're doing limit orders and leverage and all this shit. They want to have like a simplified portal that's like Bitcoin only in perception, like this idea that like, oh, this is the Bitcoin only portal you can send a noob to.

And it's because they're getting the pressure from these Bitcoin only services that didn't exist last cycle. Well, you see the same stuff out of wallets too, right? Like if you've got a wallet that supports a ton of coins, what's the our priority. We're going to add every fucking coin under the sun, whereas you get a Bitcoin only wallet and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I have

features like RBF. It's used in Beck 32 addresses. You know, like every, I have manual fee adjustments. It actually does a good job of checking the mempool for the most accurate fee information. Like all of these things that you want

to, just to use Bitcoin efficiently. And even though it may not be right in front of your face, when you need it, the features are there. And teams like Blue Wallet are fucking knocking it out of the park where they just keep on adding all these great things. You can do multi-sick. All of these things that you'll never get out of a multi-coin wallet

because they're too concerned with supporting everything that they possibly can. And it's the same with exchanges that are Bitcoin only. They're going to focus on bringing the most utility to their users to efficiently use Bitcoin. And I think that's the end game. It's funny that so many times we talk about bear markets and their importance for the development of Bitcoin and all these tools that happen in that. It's almost like we're at this point we're starting to say we're bullish on bear markets. Like there's such an integral part of the development of Bitcoin because it washes away all the shit and all the shit coins and it just leaves you with what's real.

100%. 100%. I love it. I'm super stoked to see. I feel like next, you know, over the same. over the next few years, like I think this year will nail into exchanges heads that, oh, shit, we better, we better implement lightning if we want people to have like a positive experience in terms of, you know, not only funding, but withdrawing from our exchange. And I think by, you know, if we do indeed go through a similar cycle, then next time around, it'll be like you don't have lightning, are you fucking insane? Like I,

that's what it is. Like when I go to, to, if I look at an exchange and I see a legacy address, you're like, what? What are you doing? It's ridiculous.

Yeah. Anyways, I don't know, Tony, if you want to add in. Have you been, uh, uh,

looking at, at lightning using it a lot? Yeah. Well, hopefully, like, we hope to, to be on lightning at some point.

Um, we've been chatting with Ryan, a lot of, about that so looking forward to really really pump for hopefully to be actually able to see tap root happen and then all the good things that'll that'll do for lightning as well as uh dLCs which is you know the tech that we're working with and allowing dLCs to actually happen on lightning would that stuff would be a huge step forward and so very very optimistic about that and uh yeah like like you guys are doing the the right stuff by kind of taking this one step at a time

It's a bit of a grind, but like, you know, I respect all the work that you guys are doing and I'm super optimistic about all that stuff coming. Awesome. I'm always super pumped to see on Ryan and I as like notes when like atomic finance is in there. So, we'll to learn about it. So hopefully we'll actually get to be on a call together. I'm also pumped about DLCs for everything and not gambling or betting. But yeah, yeah, I'm super pumped for that.

Hey, Tony, do you want to just, like, because I'm sure we're going to have people in the chat that are like, what are DLCs? Do you want to do like a TLDR on what they are? Yeah, sure. TLDR. So DLCs stand for this thing called discrete law contracts. And basically, the simplest, I guess, thing that I can explain in it with is that it's a very interesting way to be able to do, do like, it's basically a two of two multi-sig on chain. that allows you to do some really interesting stuff. So basically, for example, you can have a third-party Oracle.

And an Oracle, all that is is something that pulls data from the real world, right? And basically feeds that data and basically allows something to happen on chain based on that data. So for example, the easiest example is a prediction market or a betting market, right? Like basically, you know, the U.S. election, you know, you had a Oracle that reported on who won the election. And then, of course, based on that data, then I get to resolve that bet between two people, right? It's a contract between two people. And so, but then, like, what we're working with right now is using DLCs and extending that to kind of sort of some more interesting financial permittives, like potentially options and futures. And, you know, these kinds of financial instruments where you have two counterparties and then you need, like, a third-party Oracle to basically report data in order to,

basically, you know, cause a payout. So, you know, in a bet, the simplest thing is one person gets 100% of the payout and then the other person gets zero and then with options and future it's a little bit more complicated than that. But yeah, that's the general gist. And a good example of like an Oracle would be like the New York Times posting the baseball scores from this week. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, then you guys are also working some people. Was it you or, you know, we talked about it on last night, but the multi- Oracle solution where you can pull data from multiple sources to make sure that you're not having to depend or trust a single Oracle. I thought that was pretty big piece. Yeah, exactly. Like,

you know, in the event where like, you know, one exchange, for example, you know, they have a crazy flash crash. I think Cracken had that with like ETH or something like that, you know, in that kind of situation, then you have multiple oracles or multiple exchanges providing their data, their price feed so that we kind of eliminate those kind of outlier situations and make sure that, you know, you're actually getting an accurate price. Or even a better example would be like the contested election, right? Yeah. We're like some oracles would have reported one winner versus another.

That's cool. I was just going to interject here. The price has pumped, then dumped, and then stabilized at the price from the beginning of the show. as a tradition. Yeah, exactly. We're going to get into our final reason for being bullish. Guys in the chat, thank you so much for continuing to put them through there.

Keep doing it. I'm going to bring up more whenever they come up. We've got 160 people in here. Smash that like button. Give it a share. And we're going to stick with Tony and let you round it out with your reason for being bullish this week. Yeah. Yeah, so this week, I guess it's not this week, but like, you know, a week ago or something like that, where basically I was chatting with some no-pointer friends.

And basically I was thinking that, like, after that chat, I thought a lot about, okay, like, wow, it's actually quite so interesting that the macro environment has made it a situation where no-cointers are actually able to understand things and latch on to why, like, Bitcoin is such a powerful thing, like, in, like, just one, like, face-to-face conversation. Like, basically, you know, some of the things I brought up during the conversation was like, okay, well, you look at, so I live in Toronto, right? And Toronto and Vancouver are kind of famous in North America for being one of the craziest, like, housing markets, right? And, like, I was like, we were, we started a conversation like, okay, well, did you see that, like, like, that, like, like, shack looking house? I saw, yeah. Yeah.

$1.5 million, like something crazy. And like, and like, you know, and then that, that really got me going like, you know, the reason for that really is that like, you know, and that's happening, obviously, at the end of this year where obviously we had millions of small business shut down. We had, you know, stole a ton of people out of a job here in Canada. And, and, you know, really it's it's because people are just desperately looking for an inflation hedge. And for the average Joe person, like the real estate. market is really, really that thing. And, and, you know, like talking about that, talking about kind of,

you know, obviously in a year, in a year where there's been, you know, a lot of economic devastation and for most companies in the economy, you know, this idea of some of the richest people getting a lot richer because they hold, they don't, they don't save in dollars, right? They, most of their wealth is just in these stocks and in these non-cash assets. And, and because, of all the money printing that's been going on, the fact that they've been, the fact that, you know, these guys are getting richer in this kind of year. It's just a testament to, you know, the real impact of the money printing that's been going on. And it was so cool for me to see, shit, like, see the, see the light in their eyes and see that they actually started getting some of this stuff, right?

It was actually, you know, it's just like some of these, like, trying to, trying to onboard no coiners, like, you know, a couple years ago compared to now. it's such a change because they can actually see, yeah, it doesn't make sense that this, all this stuff, all these asset prices are increasing, all that kind of stuff in this kind of year. And, you know, there's just really one simple explanation for it, which is all that money printing that's been going on. And, you know, when you bring up Bitcoin, you know, that transition to really understanding the value proposition. It's so much clearer. And, yeah, that's just, it's just amazing for me to see that.

And one of the reasons why I'm extremely bullish, like this time around on Bitcoin, right, compared to, compared to other times, I guess. But I mean, always bullish, but just so the macro environment just lines up so much for the average person to be able to get it. That's powerful because we don't, like, we, we just, we don't even have to do all the education ourselves. Like, basically, the government's helping us, right? Yeah. So that's really fine. It's amazing. This year, like, there's never been an easier time for Bitcoiners to explain why Bitcoin.

There's so many things to point to. You just don't look around. This is why Bitcoin. It's like even the narrative of there's no inflation or the inflation isn't coming. Like Stats can did a report like in the past few months saying, oh, the past couple of years, inflation's only been half a percent, which is so, so ridiculous. And meanwhile, my friend is doing my basement right now. And the price of lumber is quintupled. It's fucking insane.

It's like it's everything. Like I had, if you guys follow on Twitter, fart face 2000. He did the bitpigies. He's the best. So he, I don't know what he does, but he had a thread back from December of all his suppliers. He must do something in construction. all the suppliers, all of the individual emails from suppliers of supplies, basically saying, hey, like, expect the price of this and this and this.

And there was a list of the percentage increases based on inflation of what they're going to be up in their prices. And most of them were double digits, 10 to 20%, sometimes more. So like when people say, oh, yeah, inflation is like one point something percent or here in Canada, oh, it's only been half a percent. What are you talking about? Don't worry about it. It's total bullshit. So, like, you're right, Tony.

Like, you can point to everything, and now it's not a struggle to prove your point. I don't know if anybody wants to tag on to that. It drives me insane, though. I mean, I agree with you just because that's, you know, it's so easy to see with people around me on a day-to-day basis. Even my partner, she was like, you're crazy, you're insane. Like, why are you buying Bitcoin? Like it actually almost like came to a point where like our relationship was being impacted by the level of like Bitcoin I was buying and the amount of mining machines I was buying. Like I was going all in.

Like it was about to happen. And you know, she's good to always be reeled back a little bit just in case. But now it's like, you know, I'm buying Bitcoin for her with her money. Like it's like she gets it. And I think there's there's still a lot more knowledge to be to be, you know, listen to and heard by the no coiners. But at least they get like a piece of it now. And that makes such a big difference on. talking to people and trying to explain why Bitcoin is so important.

But yeah, inflation, dude, it's like, it's out of control. Absolutely of control. And we haven't even started spending money yet. Like the velocity of money is like, it's like bottomed out. It's like almost zero. Well, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.

There's all this money in the market. Like when we printed like 26% of the M2 money supply in the last 12 months, we've printed almost 50 to 60% of the M2 money supply in the last 10 years. What's to say they're not going to be? going to double and triple it again, right? I mean, obviously they're going to keep printing money. But what happens when they start spending money? When they start spending money, you're going to just see inflation absolutely go through the roof. So it's going to be, it's going to be real fun to watch Bitcoin just absolutely tear people's faces off. Yeah. Here in Canada, they were saying how

how everybody is, all these economists are so worried about how Canadians have been getting. And it's different from in the States, like the States, you guys got like a pittance. and here in Canada, they're like two grand a month. Does that sound good for everybody? They sent us like 100,000 Satoshes and then called it a day. Yeah. Yeah, they've been divving it up.

And it's funny because there was like no checks on, on like whether you actually qualified for the money. So a bunch of people were like that clearly did not qualify whatsoever. We're like, hey, can I have this money? And they just got sent right away. And then they obviously spent it. And then right off the bat, like, and they're like, oh, yeah, you're going to have to pay that back. And then they walked that back.

They're like, well, you know, I don't know what we're going to be able to do about that. It's like, okay. So, yeah, so anyways, there's been just a nonstop burr in Canada. And people have been actually saving it and or investing it. And there was a there was a report the other day where like 40, I think it was like 40 to 50% of people that even in the states getting their stimulus checks were planning on investing all or at least a portion of their stimulus checks. So it's like additional money that they're like, well, I may not need this just to eat. I'm going to go dump it on Robin Hood and buy. Yeah, they were like they were direct depositing it into Robin Hood and then fucking dumping it into like.

like the worst fucking meme stonks ever. There was one benefit of being in United States, which is the business loans they gave out, though. To small business loans, I don't know if any of you guys took part of those. But that was fucked up because anyone who wasn't savvy couldn't take advantage of it. And anyone who was savvy took a huge advantage of it. We actually missed out on the first round.

It was designed in the most predatory fucking way ever. The crazy part was they said, you're going to have to pay this money back. And then everybody was the same, same thing with Canada. And then everybody went out and got a loan and we basically stood back because we're like, well, we don't need the loan yet. Because it was very early on in all this mess, right? We didn't know we were going to be a year in.

And we looked at the loans. We're like, we're not going to take the first round, maxed out. But some people took like maxed out loans. Like we had friends. Yeah, we took a maxed out loan. 200K. And they were like thinking they had to pay it back. And then one day the government's like, nah, you just keep that.

Our accountant. Our accountant was like, take the loan. We gave our secretary in a raise, like in the middle of this whole thing. Because you had to use it on salary and stuff like that too anyways, right? Yeah. It had to be applied to salaries and the jobs had to stay. So we just took it and gave her a raise. Just because like who's going to sit there and just like not take the free money?

If you're going to let all the Wall Street guys take it, you got to take it. Yeah. I agree with you. I think that's a really great point. Some friends have been saying that to me. They're like, man, the government is offering to give you free money. Like don't be like. It's not free.

They're taking it from all of us. So if they're offering it, you have to take it. Like, if you don't take it, then you're just getting charged for no reason. Yeah, you're part of the tax bill anyways. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's literally like, again, it doesn't matter the number of dollars. And this is what a lot of normies don't get.

It doesn't matter the number of dollars you have. It's the percentage of total dollars that you have. And when they do things like all of the stimulus and it, well, 350 billion of the, almost two trillion was stimulus checks to individuals and the rest went other places. And so wherever that went, if it's concentrated in like a few places, then those people are the ones that actually really won out of that equation. Like you may be up better than people that got no stimulus money, but still you're going to be net negative over the long haul because you're purchasing. power in the economy has gone to shit.

You're treading water. You're treading water. It's the beauty of the scam. The beauty of the scams, they tax you with the inflation. And then the inflation causes gains, which then they tax. That's the beauty of it. Like if they can make stonks pump forever, then you're going to pay capital gains tax forever. Yeah.

It's crazy. This is, this is why it's scary to, you know, this is why it's difficult for me to, to partly live on Bitcoin because, you know, those capital gains. But I guess in the end, if I'm paying the capital gains, I'm still, it's because I've gained instead of just infinitely lost on my dollars. So I don't know. So that's the point. Like we're going to hit a point where you're not even gaining. Like right now, we're in the adoption cycle of Bitcoin. But when it starts just matching inflation, like when we plateau out and it's just we go up, you know, because our purchasing power is, is, is big. basically increasing at a steady rate while the,

while the thing is measured in, the dollar or the Canadian dollar or whatever is going down in value. At that point, it's just matching inflation. And it's, that's just bullshit, right? At that point, it's just, they're just creating arbitrary rules to take your money. Yeah. Like, is there still a dollar when Bitcoin gets to the point where it plateaus and it's only like an average, of a couple percent deflation per year. Like, I don't know that a dollar exists in that world at that point.

I don't think so. I think that's still probably what? Like, it's got to be at least 10 years out, 20 years out at best. Madge just smiles. I just love that. I love that like 10 years is like the conservative guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my bullish case for the dollar being destroyed.

10 years. Hey, man, we're doing crazy shit these days. You never know what could have. happen out there. So I'm just glad that we have Bitcoin that we can even opt out of all this garbage. Yeah. That's that's that's all it is man. That's all it is. Uh, guys, I'm going to round it out here. I'm going to go around, uh, to each person quick for a final thoughts and then we'll wrap it up. Um, again, everybody in the chat. Awesome. Thank you. Give this a, uh, a like, a subscribe, a share, whatever you can do. Uh, but let's get some final thoughts.

Uh, O'Dell, what do you got for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me. Uh, We got, I got Citadel Dispatch coming on Tuesday. We're going to be doing a, a Bitcoin gaming focused show, Lightning Gaming. We got, we got one of my boys from Zebedee is going to be there. And then the lead dev from Bitcoin Bounty Hunt. So I'm super excited about it. It's going to be very good. So, you know, search Citadel Dispatch on whatever platform that you enjoy and it'll be there.

And then second, I've been consulting with Bitcoin Mackey. and Bitcoin 2020 is going to be fucking insane in June, June 3rd through 5th. We're going to have Bitcoin Gaming Tournament there while we're there. It's going to be fucking crazy. Today we announced Warren Davidson. Sitting congressman in the U.S. Congress is going to be a speaker there. That's on top of Mayor Francis Suarez of Miami who's going to be there, sitting mayor. and our queen, Senator Loomis, Cynthia Loomis of Wyoming is going to be there and speaking as well.

So far we have three sitting politicians that are going to be there. And over at least four or five billionaires, it's going to be ridiculous. Tony Hawk's going to be there. We're going to have a half pipe. You can use code humble, all caps for 15% off. And they're going to pull a plug on that at some point soon. So, I mean, either use it or don't. Don't forget those caps.

I make no money from that promo code for what it's worth. But you should use it. They just added Preston Pish, which I'm also very excited about. And I think he's the only panelist who currently in their profile there has laser eyes. What's up with that? Dude, the speaker list, both the public speaker list and the speaker list that has not been announced yet is the most bullish fucking thing ever. Like it is fucking ridiculous. And people do not, they do not fully comprehend what,

what this event is going to be. It's going to be fucking ridiculous. I can't wait. It's going to be insane. Okay, we're going to get final thoughts. I'm going to go to Desnex. And the reason is somebody in the chat also just said, Lightning Network tutorials, anybody.

So just as mental. Yeah, I do have a few beginner Lightning Network tutorials for kind of like the in-betweener wallets where you're, It is like self-custody, but there's like a degree you kind of don't have to do the heavy lifting on the back end of setting up channels and stuff like that. So I have some tutorials around that for like Breeze Wallet, B-R-E-E-Z and for Phoenix Wallet. And I'm going to be working on Moon Wallet, I believe, soon. I don't have a ton on on doing like setting up your own channels and stuff like that. Other than I did it with my Umbral Node tutorial.

I showed you guys how to set up outgoing and incoming. channels there. But Des, if you have any suggestions for Just Is Mental and some parting thoughts. Yeah, definitely shoot me a DM on Twitter. It's Dickerson underscore Des. Another one if like you're a little bit more advanced is docs.lightening. Engineering, which has great resources. And then we also have a really great builders guide to the L&D Galaxy, which I guess is like the same thing. But we have like a series of blog posts as well. So I can send those out to folks. If you DM me, But yeah, I guess, check out everything we're doing at Lightning Labs. You know, we've got a lot of recent really cool releases with pool and sidecar channels.

We recently released in our product update, I don't know if it was this week or last week. We have a great blog post covering that. And then also check out McGaX and everything that's like kind of going on in the Bitcoin Gaming Space. Our next event is March 28th at 2 p.m. Eastern, and we will be giving the price pool is 10 million stats, so there's a decent amount folks can win. And then, yeah, I mean, stay tuned for, you know, announcements around an in-person event because we're doing super, super big things and, you know, super pumped, you know, being in contact with Matt about that.

So big announcements coming up there. But, yeah, I'm super bullish. And this has been great to be on this podcast with all these folks. It's been awesome. I'm honored. Awesome, glad to have you here. Let's jump to Tony. Tony, any final thoughts?

Let people know where they can find you, all that's good stuff. Yeah. Thanks so much for the invite. It's been amazing chatting with all you amazing people. Yeah, so for us, if you want to check out Atomic. dot finance our link is atomic dot finance um and you if you want to explore kind of like how you might be able to make yield on your bitcoin and uh without giving up custody still maintaining your privacy still maintaining yourself sovereignty um that's what we're wanting to do um so we'd love to

see y'all uh who are interested in that signing up for a beta we're going to start rolling some invites out uh next month um Dennis will be part of that contingent um and uh and uh yeah so if you want to check out more stuff about DLCs as well that we discussed other shirt the Shred Bits which is an awesome company that we're we're partnered with and there's a bunch of brilliant guys that are really spearheading the development on DLCs you can Google them and and their blog they have tons of amazing content about that and yeah super excited for for Miami hopefully we can we can make it down there I'm still debating with Matt

my co-founder, whether or not we're going to head down there. Make it happen, dude. What the fuck? Sessions, I think we're going to need to organize a Canadian contingent. I'm super curious to get your thoughts offline, like how you're finally handle the quarantine stuff. But like, man, it's just annoying. I'm going to take that hit, man.

Like, even if they still have these terrible quarantine, like right now, if you fly back to Canada from traveling, there's like you get tested. If you end up positive, then you have to like sit in a hotel room. on your own expense of like a couple thousand dollars for like however long. If that happens, if that's still in place, I will take that hit. I am not missing this fucking conference. But the trick is,

the trick is you just make a longer Miami vacation and you just come down for a while. There's going to be a bunch of us Bitcoiners that are going to be there for a long period of time because honestly, you know, it's probably one of the best places to be right now to begin with. And the Airbnbs aren't that expensive. So you go down there, have a good time with it,

and then get yourself tested in Miami. So if you're positive, then stay in Miami, quarantine down there, then go back up again. That's the play. Smart. Yeah, I bought my ticket today, so we're going to be there. You've got to show up. Yeah, well, I know Matt's listening to this right now.

So, Matt, there it is. We should go. Let's make it happen, Matt. You got to get together. All right. Let's toss it to Dennis. Final thoughts. Last person.

let people know where they can find in and any other thoughts, yeah. Yeah, thanks, Ben, for having me on here. Matt Desiree and Tony, been great to speak with you. Nice to meet all of you for the first time. I have to say, Tony, obviously the smarter co-founder

over at Atomic Finance. Hey, man, I want to be first in line for this app. I got to be the first beta tester. But more about what I'm doing, obviously I'm on Clubhouse. I do show is almost daily. I'm basically just fully addicted the way that some people originally got addicted to Twitter. I do a lot of cafe Bitcoin stuff, but I also have my own club called Bitcoin Plus.

I do have a really, really good show coming up where we're going to do an absolute just thrashing of Ethereum. I mentioned it earlier, hoping to get us some amazing heavy hitters on there. We've already got big players like Brad Mills, J.C. Crown, talking to Dan Held. We're about to send a letter over to Lynn Alden to see if she wants to join in. would love to have Marty and love to have Matt there as well, just so we can round out the crew. Vijay, if you're listening also, please come on. Any of you on who have could just rip this thing wide open. But aside from that, you know, that's going to be Thursday on the 25th.

Aside from that, just you find me on Twitter. On Twitter, it's the only time it's different. It's the machine built. Everywhere else, it's machine built as my username. But it's been an honor to be on with all of you and a pleasure to finally meet one of my favorite podcasters, Matt O'Dell. Awesome. Cheers to that. Thank you, Dennis.

That's awesome. I'm just putting a camera in my, a battery in my camera because when I do long shows and I don't have a power supply, shit goes wrong. You have a battery powered webcam? Well, how does that work? It's a, it's a DSLR camera. It's a Sony, but then I've got some little dongle that plugs in to turn it into a webcam. which is why it looks all fancy when I get myself. You look so beautiful all the time.

You're like crystal clear. We have to upgrade it. I can, I can zoo. Oh. Oh. That's beautiful. Yeah, guys, thank you so much for being on the show. This is always my favorite part of the week.

It's just like such a good roundout to the end of the week to just shoot the shit with a bunch of awesome bit corners. So really appreciate you guys. everybody watching links for all of these guys Twitter handles are in the show notes so be sure to if you're not following them what the hell are you doing so please go do that guys I'm going to cut your audio and video right now do my little outro if you want to stick around

to say quick goodbye afterwards that's all good we'll do good thank you guys everybody watching again thank you so much if you're here on YouTube please do smash that like button give this a share subscribe if you're already subscribed all of that super important it helps get this content in front of more people if you want to help with the show in another way you can hit up

the previously mentioned sponsors down below in the show notes that was leaden cobo bit refill and privacy pros for the bill fottle all of them are there and if you really really loved what you saw especially since we had des on here you can always drop me a lightning network tip at my tippin dot me page that is t i p p p.m. me slash at BTC sessions. With that, I am out. Have yourselves a wonderful day, a wonderful evening, wherever you may be, and I'll see you guys next time for your daily session.