BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Adam Curry, Untapped Growth, John Vallis, Guy Swann ep211

Episode Date: October 30, 2021

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Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What is going on, everybody? Welcome back. It's another Friday, another edition of Why Are We Bullish? We've got a stacked panel today. I don't mean to brag, but this is an exciting show. If you're feeling mega bullish, you can join us in a beverage. I got a little bit too overzealous on the old fashions earlier in the week,

so I'm just having tea right now. But I've got my don't trust verify mug, so I'm good. But yeah, we've got a killer panel today. Very excited for this. As always, this is live. Anything can happen, so I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay.

We'll do it live. Do it live! I can write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks! Yeah. If you haven't already, make sure you smash that like button, give this a share, subscribe. All those good things.

And I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. All right, before we bring in our panel, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. I'm taking a look at the bitbo.io dashboard. We're sitting at $62,442 per coin. A single US dollar will pick you up 1,602 sats. This will come back from our 58K gang dip.

We'll see if 58K gang is obsolete or if they make a return. But 89.8% of all Bitcoin have been mined. And in terms of fees, six sats per byte will get you into the next block. If you're willing to wait anything beyond that, one sat per bite will do you. Open up some lightning channels. Do some coin join. Have fun. Do some podcasting.

All that good stuff. Of course, shout out two. Shake pay sponsors of the show. If you're stacking stats in Canada, super easy. I would say the best. way to do it, if I'm being entirely honest. You can e-transfer in, no deposit fee, no withdrawal fee. The spreads are super thin, so you're getting some of the best rates in Canada and killer referral program. And once you refer a single friend, you can shake your phone every morning for free

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Links are in the show notes. I do live on Bitcoin and bit refill is a huge help to that. All the gift cards you could shake a stick at in a ton of different countries, and you earn stats back as you shop. Plus, they got a killer referral program. Check them out. You know, Keystone, my favorite and most use hardware wallet. These guys are awesome.

And it's all offline via QR code. It's air gap. So you can link it up with your favorite wallets, whether it be blue wallet, wasabi, spectra, sparrel, you name it, they got it. And it's badass in a multi-six setup, which you've seen in a ton of my videos. So you can check them out. Links are down below. And finally, if you're backing up any important hardware wallet or hot wallet, well, hot wallet,

if it's got a meaningful amount of funds, you want to make sure that backup is secure. Paper might not cut it, you know, fire damage, water damage. or just accidentally misplacing the thing because it's on a piece of paper. A solid piece of steel gives you a bit more peace of mind. Check out the bill bottle over at privacyprose.i. And with that, I'm going to stop my rant here and I'm going to start bringing in some awesome guests. We have untapped growth. We have Adam Curry.

We have Guy Swan. And we have John Valles. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. I hope you're all doing well. And I want to do a quick round of who you are and what you do. So I'm going to toss it down the nut line. We'll start with untapped. Man, can you let people know who you are?

Start with me, man. I've got to figure it out of the fly here. So I'm on top growth. Man. So I'm working on the emergence of the Bitcoin Sededal Revolution. Your first emergent civilization is always starting the soil. Soil is your first productive asset where until there's an overproduction of food, there can be no division of labor and the rest of society emerge out from it.

So we've got this black swan risk of all the arrogance of humanity of all the ways that they've tried to compile everything into stealing from the future to control it with this Keynesian system. And that black swan risk is propagating into everything right now with supply chain breakdowns. We've got soil erosion that's just destroying our ability to raise crops in the U.S. And problem after problem after problem. goal being is first to start with the ability to restore soil, raise healthy food, because in order to have an emergent revolution in civilization, you need healthy people. I mean, partly the junk of like all the seed oils, all the bad like medical practices and things going on that are poisoning people,

or part of why that the masses are getting sci-opt with these fear spells and being manipulated the way that they are. So healthier people will be able to have a stronger stand for freedom to help us win for our side. From there, it flows into securing everything else that the plebs need to be free because the plebs are Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a mathematical software tool for us to work together in trade. It's a means for human governance and consensus. So unless the plebs are free to use it to take their value, they create an ad to the world, exchange it on Bitcoin together, Bitcoin can't defund the money printer and win for us. So building citadals to protect the plebs to protect Bitcoin through hyper-bitconization so we can win.

Awesome. I love that. And you've been on a chunk of podcast and you've outlined kind of what you're working on. And I've listened to some of it. It's really, you're taking some initiative there, man. That's very exciting. We're going to come back around and talk more about maybe a little bit about what you're doing. But let's get the rest of our intros out of the way before we dive in. Adam, let people know who you are, what you do. Well, hi. Hi. I'm Adam Curry. Untap growth. Nice to meet you, man. I love what you just said there. This fits in so well with what I'm doing right now. If you're old enough, none of you are. You might remember me from MTV back in the 80s, late 80s, early 90s. I've really gone through a number of media revolutions from pirate radio to video music revolution to the internet and podcasting. Dave Weiner and I invented podcasting 1.0 about 18 years ago now. And last year during the pandemic, Dave Jones and I birthed podcasting 2.0, which includes value-for-value streaming Satoshi payments through the Lightning Network. And I'm happy to be here and talk about it today and share some thoughts with y'all. Awesome. I am very stoked to have you.

Thank you for agreeing to do this, too. I reached out. I wasn't sure if I'd get a response and you were very courteous. Dude, you open up with such a fan. That opener of Bill O'Reilly, I'm such a fan of shit like that. And so I'll just give you my two seconds worth. Stop the hammering. You know, that kind of goes along. Lawrence O'Donnell goes along with Bill O'Reilly. That's fantastic. Awesome. Well, glad to have you and I'm sure we'll get into a little bit of what you're working on too. Let's toss it down the line. John, welcome back. Can you acquaint people with you who may not be. familiar? Thank you, brother. It's always a pleasure. Yeah, I host a podcast, or two podcasts now,

I guess. One's called Bitcoin Rapid Fire, and that's my own, and the other is closing the loop, and that's for CT, a subsidiary Bitcoin company of a larger energy group in Norway. And mine, I just started because I became obsessed with Bitcoin, and in 2019, it kind of bubbled over, and I couldn't not talk about it, and I needed some excuse to hit up these people in the space to have these conversations. And I guess since then it's morphed into, you know, I don't get too deep into the technical aspect of things. I really like to discuss what's happening on the personal side of this phenomenon

and how engaging with this thing and adopting it and using it as your kind of lens for many different aspects of reality influences people on a very personal and deep level and what kind of impacts that's having on culture and such. So, yeah, that's what I like to investigate. And I can't wait to chat with you guys. You also like to orange pill people like Peterson. So that's that's a plus too.

I love that I love watching him dive down that rabbit hole and start and start bringing in his circle into it. So I know that was a while back, but once again, kudos on that. So glad to have you. Thank you. Yeah. It's inevitable that Peterson takes the orange pill and really, you know, really goes down the rabbit hole. So it's nice to participate in some small way in that. Yeah.

The speed with which Peterson, like, totally was on the same foundation of the principles to, to grasp it from. And then just started running with it. It was, it was great. It was, it was, he skipped so much of the bullshit in a matter of like 20 minutes. It was, it was, it was. It was. Guy, why don't you take it away? Let people know who you are and what you do as well.

I'm the guy who's read more about Bitcoin than anybody else you know. I got two podcasts. I host Bitcoin Audible, the Audible of Everything in Bitcoin, and also co-host of Shitcoin Insider. My Guilty Pleasure, where we just have a lot of fun digging into some fun shitcoins. And I think we've got a world coin one coming soon. So that's going to be fun. Are you going to get yourself an orb, man?

or what it would you? Yeah, I think I might need one for my, for my wall. Yeah. My wall of novel to things. But, yeah, I, I explore Bitcoin and how it touches everything. Awesome. Well, I am glad to have you all. Very excited for this.

I guess I will kick us off. For those that are watching, that maybe this is your first time watching, very simple premise. It's why are we bullish? we go by the three R's, those are, somebody's going to give a reason why they're bullish, then all together we're going to riff on the reason, and then we're going to rotate to the next person,

really, really easy. So I've got a reason this week, and it was an unintentional self-own by Steve Hankey. And he pointed out one of the positive things in Bitcoin, not meaning to, but I'm just going to share my screen for a second here. So this was a tweet by Steve Hankey, I don't know, like in the last day or two. So he said the top 10,000 individual investors in Bitcoin own one third of the Bitcoin in circulation.

And that's kind of the key point I wanted to hit on here. And somebody in the replies posted the following, if I can here, posted this. This is from December 18th of 2017. 1,000 people own 40% of the Bitcoin market. And so when looking at those two things, basically 10 times the number of people from 2017 own less Bitcoin, like the top of the top whales in Bitcoin.

And all of that was done with natural market forces and a currency that cannot be inflated at will and distributed as central planners see fit. And so it gets rid of the can't the cantyon effect. And all of a sudden, you have what was a fud point or meant to be a fud point of look how much these people earn or look how much these people own. It's unfair because they were early. But then you see the directionality of it of, oh, it's actually.

flowing to people who create value and and those that maybe lucked out early on and, you know, took a risk and they, they made some money and, and they had a lot of Bitcoin. Well, the amount of Bitcoin that they have, when you look at a lot of these OGs, they would never be able to purchase that amount of Bitcoin now, right? Like they, they're not actively doing or creating enough value to purchase that amount of market share of Bitcoin. Sure, they may be able to add to their stack gradually, but to have accumulated what they're holding on to. And so what that means is that naturally over time, the Bitcoin kind of flows to to newcomers, to people that have created value to people that are

offering goods and services or people that have a fiat mining job that are just spending less than they earn and allocating the rest of Bitcoin or, you know, podcasting or doing whatever, and they're earning their Bitcoin through one way or another. And you're not having this concentration of wealth that continues to accrue. And just because you have money, it doesn't guarantee you more money. So I think this is a beautiful example of what the world could look like with a cap supply money and a lack of cantyon effect. So I'm going to open it up to you guys. anybody can jump in here.

But if anybody has initial thoughts of the tweet here, the directionality of Bitcoin ownership, anything. Hank he's a moron. The beauty of energy currency. Untapped, if you want to take it. I mean, it's the beauty of energy currency, right? Where it's tied to reality and produce value or perish, man. It's like you have to really have proof of work.

At the end of the day, it's going to reground us to, actually having to create again versus just rent seek that's going to have a pretty balancing effect because everybody gets a chance to do it yeah absolutely yeah it it takes away the rent seeking it it's i love that you said that you have to create again you have to do something of value because so much of the world today is not that you you see you know the s&P hitting all time highs is that because it's created so much more value over the past few years, hitting all-time eyes repeatedly?

Absolutely not. It's astounding. I don't know. And John, like, I know that you look at Hanky and he's a moron, but like, it's almost as if he's, he's a beautiful example of kind of what's wrong with the way people are looking at this thing. Yeah, what?

Absolutely. But I think more than that, I mean, he's a dinosaur that's gotten comfortable and cushy from being in his position of authority for so long. And he's just used to being an authority and people around him consider him an authority. And when he steps into the real arena of actual thought and discourse and, you know, throwing around ideas and seeing which ones are most true, which is, you know, Bitcoin Twitter, let's say, broadly speaking, none of that matters. Your accolades, your credentials, they don't matter. All we care about is the ideas and the truth of the matter. And he has obviously been shown to be a buffoon, you know. And he almost seems to be malicious, you know, like he wants Bitcoin to fail, not just that he's like objectively commenting on what he sees.

I mean, I think he's salty pants about having missed it. And the fact that a, when you have a non-discretionary monetary, system, then everyone whose career is based on discretionary aspect of the system, they're theorizing about how things should go, it disrupts their whole livelihood. Now, you wouldn't think he'd care much because he's obviously at the end of his, you know, coming up on the end of his career, but everyone like him, like the Cato peeps and all that stuff. I mean, they rely on the consulting fees about thinking about all this stuff, whereas the Bitcoin network, because it's non-discretionary, it just says, this is the way it is.

is order will coalesce around this. You don't need to be theorizing around it. Act, cause and effect. That will take care of everything. And so Hanky's just, you know, another punching bag that we love to laugh at on Twitter. And another one for like, I know you got a Peter Schiff tweet frame somewhere around you, Ben. Or I thought you did formally. He'll be maybe another one of those.

Those that can't read, this tweet is from January 6th of 20. And I'll just recite it to you. He said, for those Bitcoin bugs excited about Bitcoin's 4% rally in 2020, think about this. Gold is also up by about the same percentage this year, only with significantly less downside risk. If this is the best Bitcoin, this is the best rally Bitcoin can muster, how will it ever hit 50k, let alone one million? And this thing is aging like fine wine on my shelf here. It's beautiful. I will treasure this forever.

It's also great to see Buckele and El Salvador just dunk on Hankey like every time he tweets, you know, like he sub-tweets him or retweets him and he just gets ratioed to hell, you know? So that's kind of a fun one for the timeline. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's... Go ahead. So, John, to extrapolate what you were saying about this credentialism, right? take that and extrapolate that out to the economy at large, not just the intellectuals and the scholars, right?

So this Fiat world, it's incentivizing credentialism where whoever's best at politics to cozy their way up the chain gets to be at the top. It's not meritocracy based on competence. It's based upon who panders to the flow of the capital the best. So like you think about that, the people at the top, top over decades of this are not the best decision makers. And it's brutally obvious when you're an entrepreneur trying to live this in the business world, right? Like one of my mentors,

he's a physicist and inventor. He'll spin up new technologies, do the R&D, create a company around it, bootstrap the company up from zero. Everybody tries to steal it from you, because you're the little guy, dog eat dog world,

you get to the market, you succeed, runs repeat, do it all over again, right? So he has recently invented. this new tech. I can't get into the details too much. But he went out and he talked to the whole marketplace of like this one segment of the market, hey, what's your guys's biggest problems? And so he pulled them all. He figured out where the biggest problem was. He sat down and

invented the solution. Okay. So he did the prototyping. He did the lifecycle testing. It's all functional and working. The only thing that's not done that he didn't bootstrap was the actual optimization for like the manufacturing processes for direct customer applications. Right. So he takes it, he goes and plops it on the desk of all the people he talked to. I mean, these executives running these multinational corporations type stuff. You know what happened? Not a single one of those fuckers believed that the tech he invented actually worked. They have the life cycle testing.

They have it working in front of them. They have it with their use case, all the problems they listed beforehand. They don't even have the intelligence to assess that he laid the answer on a golden platter right on their desk. And this is not unusual. He's created multiple of these technologies that were kind of revolutionary game changers in these particular industries. And it's always this nightmare getting into the market because the people you're trying to interact with to raise capital or even sell the freaking product to are so used to like Fiat. Fiat's the world of the snake whale. It's like Safedine says when you've got a money that's soft, everything else has to become money to compensate, right?

So what that is is everything has a monetary premium. if you're trying to predict where is your buddy going to put their money next? Like Mark Cuban was talking about, like we don't care where the fundamentals are. Or my buddy's going to invest in the shit coin. If they do, I'll bet you sell it to retail or a profit. Right. So it's like you're chasing the waves of human emotion. And so we're used to it being a world of complete fuckery and scammery where nothing's real.

The whole world out there in real entrepreneurial business can't tell what's real anymore. when you get rid of that so that you don't have the chaos of human emotion driving valuation based upon chasing whoever's most excited about like vaporware, you're going to have real entrepreneurs come to the surface again, which is going to add an incredible amount of value to the world. That's a bigger game changer. I think anybody realizes. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, just think just one little piece on that. How exciting is it that we will have a culture and a market in a world where it's actually the preferences of each individual in coordination in conjunction with those of other people and the natural world that dictate what the culture becomes. Because then the capital is being allocated around those preferences versus right now the capital in large part is being allocated from the nexus of the monetary spigot. Right. So it's being allocated along ideological lines. Like people like Hankey, for example, and subsidized crops in your world and all this kind of stuff, it creates. a reality around education, around food, around finance that wouldn't be there, if not for

the super market privilege of the monetary spigot. And then being able to allocate capital, let's say unnaturally, right, not in response to the preferences of the market participants, but along the lines of their ideology. And of course, they have to steal the capital effectively or the siphon off capital and wealth from other people in order to do that. And that creates, you know, another layer of fuckery in the system. But I agree, man. It's super exciting to when the point where that Bitcoin instantiates a mechanism for the true

expression of preferences in the world. That's very exciting. There's something about like you mentioned how they're able to allocate enormous amounts of capital. And yet this is capital that no one has created. This is debt.

This is the fiat. It's the ability to allocate capital based on political relevance rather than productivity. It is the demonetization of the productive class and the monetization of the political class. And when you think about the idea of sending interest rates to zero and reserve rates to zero, you're talking about completely eliminating the cost, the discretion of where to put capital. so why choose where to put it why does it matter where to put it when there's no when the actual cost of capital is zero

there's no incentive there's no structure there's no market mechanism whatsoever the pressure to to actually care about what fucking happens to that capital is gone and it's funny that Hanky actually brought that up and

kind of made it so clear because I didn't really know how that trend was. It makes kind of logical sense, like when you just kind of break it down that, okay, the trend would simply be that the market forces would spread it out. And the kind of nature of that is, is because the rent seeking, the sort of privilege that you get in the Fiat system, if you have a billion dollars in the Fiat system, you have an access to, or something of a billion dollars in value,

you can get a billion dollar loan like nothing. like the spigot will create new money for you without breaking a sweat if you have a billion dollars in Bitcoin they ain't not shit that somebody's going to do to be like yeah I'll give you a bunch of

Bitcoin why would they do that they're not they're not going to get if they're they can have a billion dollars in Bitcoin but if they're completely unproductive they're never going to get anything else it's all about productivity in Bitcoin you can't just

beat Bitcoin ROI by sticking it in the stock market. You can beat dollar ROI by just sticking it anywhere. You just throw it at something and it's going to go up in price. Everything's going up in price. And so the political relevance, the political access to capital doesn't exist in Bitcoin. It doesn't matter how politically available or important or central or how close you are to the money spigot. You're not getting more access to Bitcoin. So when you have, when you have, you know, 10,000 Bitcoin or whatever, because you bought them out a penny or something like that, you just, all you do is lose Bitcoin from then on out. Like you still, unless you're horrifically, painfully, incredibly productive, all your, your Bitcoin balance is just ever going to fall.

That's all it is. And everybody else's is going to grow around you. And all it will do is even out unless you are productive. And if you are productive, then you fucking earn. it you get to keep it but otherwise it's just going to spread because there is no rent seeking there is no free capital in bitcoin it actually costs something and the discretion of where to put it is always present because there's no way to manipulate it that's going to fix the incentives and there's no fucking undoing that it's it's going to be a god it's going to be a thorn in every

fucking boardroom. Like the Fed, like when they sit down, it's going to start to eat at them. Like somebody's going to bring that up. You shut up. You shut up and you're sitting down. I'm not talking about this. The interest rate is zero, damn it.

Yeah. When you think about real economics, right? It's non-zero-sum economics games to the betterment of everybody. Versus Fiat, it's zero-sum social games of trying to cozy up close to the money printer of the theft from humanity.

So it's a race to the bottom of trying to get more access to the time theft versus a race to the top of competing in economics for the betterment of everybody. It's that difference there of Fiat's chasing the political whims of these incompetent parasites versus Bitcoins chasing efficiency and real value creation. Yeah. I was actually going to wrap that back. around to Harry Suttuk. I had him on the show recently, the guy who does the mining. He's like with Gary. Dude, Harry's great. He said on the show and that was, I was like, boom. Like while he was

saying, it was like, I am typing this, I am saving this. He said, Bitcoin demonetizes the political class and remonitizes the productive class. I was like, yeah. I'm wondering if perhaps this would be untapped. I'm unsure of what you were getting at initially was, you you are a reason for being bullish, but it might be a good segue into the idea that you're getting out of being productive and creating value through what you're doing. So I don't know if you, you would like to segue into your reason for being bullish if you want to. Sure. Yeah. So, I mean, I could, I can rip it in a few different ways. How many hours do we have? Yeah, I know, man. Like, I could, I can talk for days of stuff, especially with you, buddy,

go. I'd say I'm bullish because I have hope. I'll just start first and foremost there, right? Like, Bitcoiners is finally a place who people that have the inner strength to handle looking at the world with eyes wide open, right? They're willing to see how deep the darkness goes of what's really going on out there of just how bad it is. yet they're willing to stand there with the faith to discover how we're going to evolve into fixing it and healing it, right? I mean, we're willing to sit back and look at it, right? Like, the parasites use the word Svenkis, when it's to start calling it, or rather the elites. They got control of the money printer. They've got control of the media to manipulate consent of the masses.

They got control of all the regulatory authorities. And they got control of the monopoly of violence. But I still have hope. because at the end of the day, they're freaking incompetent. They've spent their whole lives used to having all that power and using that to manufacture consent and box everybody into a corner. And they've not really had to be creative or smart or tactical or hardworking. Like they've never had to do what we've had to do.

So we've got all these awakening plebs who've lived under this friction of all this opposition, their entire lives, and still they're making it. Now we've got the benefit of Bitcoin. We're not getting robbed from anymore. We're actually gaining rather than getting behind. And all that creative workforce, all that power of all that ability and skills and wisdom, we've had to master in order to survive

in the midst of such a negative sum world is going to be applied into, as this money printer breaks, going out there in actually resetting the world, back into a frame of truth and justice again. They don't stand a freaking chance. They don't stand a chance at all.

Justice is coming and it's coming on the backs of the plebs. I like that. It's interesting because when society as we know it is effectively built atop and somebody in the chat was saying this earlier, there we go. How can you build a just society on a lie? right and so when when the fabric of her society is is built on on a promise that is entirely malleable effectively a lie it's it's very difficult to present people with the truth and you were

alluding to this with with your friend who keeps on building solutions for people and they look at it and say what the hell is this you you didn't do it I refuse to believe it because they're so used to believing the lie that it takes a while to get through but we're starting to see the people recognize the cracks, right? We're starting to see the, because it's so blatant now, right? What, 30 to 40% of all existing base money created in the past calendar year? That's kind of a hard thing to ignore for even the average person who has no idea what's going on. And that's just, listen, supply chains, it's bad weather.

it's it's the canals did you hear like canals got stuck up like everything causes inflation except money printing right understand it's yeah it's it's wild to see the the pushback but i think like people normie friends of mine are starting to go what the hell is going on like things are definitely harder things are definitely more expensive and like some of them are taking the the supply chain you know stick but not all of them and and they get that there's something bigger at play here so i i don't know like like adam in your in your circles of people that you speak with like how many i don't know what your allocation of normie to our orange-pilled friends are but like are they cluing in to kind of how things are being laid out

for them? And I've been quiet because I realized that I should just shut the fuck up because I can learn a lot by listening to you guys. And I really appreciate the opportunity. I understand exactly what you're talking about, but you know a lot more about the material than I do. I live in, we moved out of Austin about four months ago. I lived there for 11 years and I decided it was time for us to re-enter the state of Texas. And we moved into the hill country. And so this is real patriot, MAGA, Trump, but in general, just

leave me alone, we're here in America, we're having a good time, we just want to be citizens and, you know, do the right thing and have a nice life. And all the things that you're talking about when it comes to people realizing how the monetary system

is broken, they're understanding their own version of it, and they attribute it to other things, but it's not just the monetary system, although I think it all ultimately flows from the monetary system. People are seeing the cracks in the educational system. I mean, who are the parents around the country going to school board standing up and yelling? And then they're being implicated as domestic, violent extremists, as terrorists.

So, you know, so the cracks are showing there. The cracks are showing in a clear health care crisis. The cracks are showing in the insanity of mandates. That doesn't mean that you can be, you have to be, or anti-vaccine or this vaccine, but mandates is a whole different deal. These cracks are showing up everywhere. And it's kind of funny because my wife and I talk about this all the time.

I married her six years ago and basically married her for the money and put it all into Bitcoin. And I've orange-pilled her so hard. She even says, oh, man, you see that Peter Schiff says, what a dick. I'm like, holy shit, you know about Peter Schiff? I know about it. here in the hill country everyone was looking for something so i think that uh myself speaks for myself as a maximalist i see it you know it took me quite a while i hit i had bitcoin in 2010 i mean but i

didn't know what was going on it really wasn't until about almost four years ago that it all kind of came to me it was the bitcoin standard yeah c fidu dean's uh book it was actually max kaiser who i i really connect with max on a whole bunch of levels, and that really works for me. But all of the different podcasts, and I just started to see it. And so, you know, people are still holding on to maybe, oh, you know, QAnon-like stuff. Like Trump's really in charge. They can't really, they're just putting placeholders.

But what's happening is this, and it's you, because I think you're all kind of around 30. So I have 20 years on you, but I see it. I see this is the generation, older millennials, who are, who have, um, I, I, have a 31-year-old daughter. And so the first Gulf War, she was in her little rocker chair. I was watching CNN. And then we had 9-11, which was really traumatic. I was in Europe at the time. It was a whole different experience, but traumatic nonetheless. Don't worry about it. You know, we're going to fix all this. And then we invaded the wrong country. You know, so now she's in her early teens. And then we have the financial crisis. Don't worry. We're going to fix it.

And, you know, and Oliver peers, everyone's graduating with worthless degrees and $50,000 to $100,000 a debt. And everyone's saying, fuck this. Oh, and by the way, your peers are telling you you're going to die in 11 years from climate change. So it's not, you know, crazy to think that some group is going to say, no, no, no, we're not going to change it. We're going to opt out. And unfortunately, although it's going to be good, it has to get so much worse. It's really going to get bad. think it's going to be kinetic with guns and all that, although I feel pretty safe here with all of

my friends in Hill Country. But that's not it. It's an information war. It's a war of control. And we all see it. You know, we see how the biosecurity state is trying to do their bit. And it's just all these relatively big groups finding their own synchronicity and harmony. And Bitcoin is truly the only instrument that I see that is disrupting it. And, you know, the fuckery is really, that's, it's, it's us. We're the fuckery in their system, John, just to use your word, because that's exactly what it is. We, Bitcoin is the fuckery in the system. And, um, I'm very, very blessed to be a part of what's going on. It's, I mean, we're all, we're all on the, we're the front lines of World War B, right? Like, we're, we're, we're taking that fight to them. And it doesn't have, like, you're, like, you're

said, it doesn't have to be a kinetic war. It's a, it's a war for, for mindshare. The war, I mean, we have wars happening right now. We're in the middle of it. But the kinetic is, it's just, that's just theater set dressing at this point. It looks good on TV, but it's not really what's happening. Yeah. It's a war of fear, right? It's a war of hurting you through misinformation of lies to make you afraid of something. And this is what makes the Bitcoin community so special. Is there the one group that doesn't have, like as you said, these placeholders of false hopes. They're people who are doing the work to see the world clearly and still have hope,

which goes right back to why I'm bullish, right? It's a group that's willing to eyes wide open, look at the first principles of where is the manipulation of the lies coming from and have a real plan to solve it. That's got a gravity to it. That's just sucking the world into it, irregardless of the incentives of like join us and get wealthy. You know, Adam, you brought up.

something about like, you know, parents standing up and like, you know, yelling at a school board meeting and just being pissed about the direction that things are headed. And I thought a lot about this. I've been reading the Fiat standard and a couple of the books that have just kind of got me stuck on this thread of like, how does socialism come about? How does how does this stuff, how does the destruction of liberty happen? And it happens like just a little bit at a time, right? You know, it's the road to surfdom. It's little itty-bitty notches.

And the reason that those notches keep coming out is because the people who want control and the people who want you to be afraid are willing to stand up and make things uncomfortable. And it's when those who want to defend the liberty don't want to make it uncomfortable. So for decades and decades, we've essentially had this situation where those who wanted to defend liberty and stood up and pushed back against, you know, wanted to, wanted to stand up and push back against, you know, this climate change shit is really kind of sounds like bullshit when you look at it from this perspective or, you know, this 11 years and we're all going to die. What was that 2012 the first time you said that? You know, like, and like, um, and like, You see this path occurring, but then they immediately, the socialists and those who want to push for control will stand up and they'll be like, you evil piece of shit.

You terrible person who doesn't care about our children or doesn't care about our world and they'll be like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm just trying to put some sense in the room. You know, just trying to ask some questions. And they sit back and they let the notch happen. They let it be taken away. They become complacent. Why? Because stuff's kind of all right. you know like i mean there's been some bad shit in the last 30 years or whatever but stuff is like

kind of been okay so we don't want to rock the boat the boat is rocking the boat is just for the last two years we've just been in stormy seas the whole time and everybody can see it and there is a massive subset of people that i have seen willing to just kind of say, you know what, go fuck yourself. I'm so tired of this shit. I'm so tired of this. And this is absolutely gone too far. And people who have been so reluctant to make it uncomfortable, now just recognize it's just always uncomfortable now. It's like, well, then why the hell should I play by these rules? Why, but why should I hell, why the hell should I sit here and watch another notch of my freedom be taken away from me when I've,

let it get this far. And it reminds me a lot of common sense, Thomas Payne's common sense, is that there's been this feeling that, you know, like the whole country, there's this underbelly of people who just have this feeling that we need to do something, that we've got to address this, we've got to push back against this. But right now it's just not really convenient. I'm going to do it tomorrow. Don't worry, we'll do it tomorrow.

Don't worry, we'll do it tomorrow. and tomorrow is here. And it feels like people are waking up and realizing that I got to fucking roll up my sleeves because this shit has gotten out of hand. It's already cost us everything. So what's the, what now is the, what's the, what's inhibiting me? What's the problem for me? I'm not going to make it get uncomfortable.

It's uncomfortable. I don't want to rock the boat. It's rocking. Like, okay, let's just fucking stand up and fix this thing. and I think Bitcoin is that foundation to actually work from so that that's actually possible. And I want those two groups of people to meet each other and make sure that they are working in tandem because I think we both have the technological foundation and the beginnings of a cultural foundation to fix things. Is this the quote rise of toxicity? The previous people that would like is this, I mean,

Because that's what, like, Bitcoin is the resistance, right? Bitcoin is the anti-status quo of what we've been fed for the past X number of decades. And from what I see, Bitcoiners have no qualms with making it super fucking uncomfortable. We do it on the daily. And nobody cares. And that's great. And even amongst each other, if you have a, like, this is one of the most beautiful things about Bitcoiners is, is we celebrate ideas, not people.

If you have a shit take, we have no problem tell you to go fuck yourself. And that's, and if you realize you're wrong and you can admit it, well, then people will be like, okay, all right,

you know, shit take, sorry, I, you know, totally wrong. And I think that's, that's one of the unique qualities in and around Bitcoin is,

is we have no problem just saying, that was bad, man. Like, that's, that's no good. And if people have the humility to admit that, then fantastic. But otherwise, you tend to have a hard time.

Well, that's what happens when you prioritize truth over everything else, right? Over credentials, over status, over previous successes. If your true highest priority is truth, then you're just dealing with ideas. And if someone comes in and they got lots of accolades and stuff, but their idea is shit, Now, you can, personality will determine whether you tell them they're fucking morons and they fuck off, or if you just say, bad idea next, you know, but this is what's so great and so valuable about this network of people that are interacting. Like there's an unwritten understanding that all we care about is the truth of the matter.

It doesn't matter if we're talking about the existing system, the culture, deeper spiritual, philosophical ideas, technical components and that kind of stuff. like we want to know the truth. And it's almost like an expected reaction to a culture predicated on lies. Like, you know, you would expect that, right? If you're coming out of a culture that lie and deceit is everywhere, lying in deceit and deception is everywhere, then the response to that, the blowback is going to be a culture that necessarily prioritizes truth as like the most important thing.

And what's really interesting about Bitcoin, of course, is like if we agree that the lie in the Fiat money system then creates a culture filled with lies. Well, if you can see, you know, to this point about people kind of waking up, if you can see like, oh, I see the lie in the top of that pyramid, then you begin to see the lie its manifestation further down the pyramid. And then you say, okay, what happens if we remove that lie, i.e. what happens if we have a. a fair money system like Bitcoin. Well, I don't know exactly how culture is going to bubble up and emerge around this thing, but seems to me that it's probably going to have a lot more truth imbued into it. It's going to be a lot less tolerant of lying in deception. And I want that, you know, because that's a more fair, just world where, again, in response

to the world that we've been forced to come up in. And, you know, it's so cool. And I think part of the reason why we all jive so well is because, we're all those kind of like initial people that popped our head out of it all and like looked around. We're like, whoa, this is fucked up. And we found a really good solution. And because we're like, there's this shelling point of truth that we're all coming together on and we're prioritizing truth in that way, we develop these really great relationships with one another,

even though we come from all sorts of different places and have different beliefs, but we're like we unify based on that, based on our prioritizing truth and using that truth to combat this. disgusting world of deception and lies. And it's pretty fucking exciting, you know. Yeah. It's great. It's incredibly encouraging and, and again,

to get back to, you know what this is reminiscent of? I was really two and a half years too young at the time, but I always hung out with the older kids. This is punk. This is when Johnny Rotten went, God save the queen. She ain't no human being.

You guys are punk. This is another version of it. But with, you know, we figured it out. You've got, you've got a monetary unit to go along with your fuck you. It's the literal fuck you money, I guess. Yeah, it's fuck you money except not fuck you nominal amount. Like, fuck you actual money. Precisely. Yeah, precisely. Precisely. It's like we're finally calling the bluff, right? Like there's that old saying about communism where like, we know they're lying. They know we know they're lying. And like, they know, we know, they know we're lying. Right. It's like at what point do you call it and make it all stop? And then you've got the Bitcoin of the

seekers, the willing to be disruptive, mix of the hard money standard that it's an immovable object that everybody else keeps trying to rob from. And every time you grasp at it, you come away with less fingertips, right? It's just, it's hurting the people that attack it. It's not that it's violent. It's just, it just is the thing that turns your own violence back on your own head until you learn to be peaceful again. So amazing what it. Oh, God, go ahead. Go ahead. It's amazing what it does to the, there's like this soft, just always changing worldview of those who kind of become reactionaries to the authority, the system.

And I say this as someone who was in that world, like, like who had that perspective, who just saw, oh, well, if the political apparatus kind of changed its direction and its wind, it's like, oh, well, I guess I should be looking over here now. You know, it was just like that was the world. You know, the world was the mainstream. And when the mainstream started saying a different thing, it was just obvious that this was the new thing that was right.

And the old things were just wrong. And when you have that, like thinking about how fiat actually reinforces, allows this to occur, people are not subject to the consequences of false worldviews. Because if the police. political apparatus actually agrees with them, they can allocate capital, even though reality doesn't actually support this, doesn't actually profit this. So even though they're not actually making productive capital, even though their view of reality is wrong, the fact that the

rules can simply be changed because we feel they should just be different for you. You know, you got a bad deck, you got a bad hand, you know, like, maybe we should alter all of our fundamental rules in order to fit them to your worldview. It will just be this giant blob of no foundation anywhere. And it will simply mold itself to everybody's belief of what they wish was. This is what I want reality to be. This is what I wish I got in money. And because of that, you actually develop this idea that that's actually truth.

that the lie is truth because the rules the entire rules of our structure of our entire system just mold themselves to whatever you wish they were as long as you get a bunch of people to wish it with you and the costs of that are finally coming due the reality is finally stepping up and saying you've done this shit too long i'm gonna punch you in the face now i'm sorry but it's got to happen and over here bitcoin is actually changes that frame so powerfully because you realize there is no way to change the rules. The rules don't change for anybody. You know, I talk about the story of like when I lost some keys really early on. You know, I've been in Bitcoin for 10 years. So I've lost keys to more Bitcoin than I have. And there was something very profound in learning that lesson

that Bitcoin does not change the rules for you. that there's no 1-800 number to call. There's no, like, it doesn't matter how much I deserved to not lose those coins. I was really nice that year, you know? Like, I did a lot of good things. I hugged my family. I was good for my friends. Why did I lose it?

Because I didn't follow the fucking rules. And if I don't take responsibility, if I don't learn how to take control and actually listen to reality, actually respond to reality and live in the real world. Bitcoin will not feel sorry for me. Gravity doesn't feel sorry for you if you jump off a cliff by accident. It just doesn't. And neither does Bitcoin. And the great lie of our time is the political system has let us believe that it will.

That we can fly even though that our plane is made out of twigs and dog shit. And it just doesn't. And we're finally paying the price. And Bitcoin is this totem of reality. of truth and people are going to continue to beat up against that they're going to continue just like you said they're going to reach in they're going to try to change it they're going to try to push their worldview on it and it's going to bite off their fingers every time they do it until they realize the reality is reality and bitcoin is bitcoin and the incentives are actually aligned

and it's going to slowly but surely change everything so let's pull on this thread for a second though because like obviously there's so many analogies, particularly in Bitcoin with the movie The Matrix, right? But like when you confront reality for the first time, right, you're pulled out of that make-believe world where, you know, all the soft, the edges are softened and you get second chances and stuff. And you come out and you realize like, oh shit, like I am now fully responsible. And this is how it's going to work. And you have to adapt a bit to that. And as you were speaking, guy, you know, I was thinking, again, this is a topic that I like to explore. but we do so much, when we get this lens of Bitcoin, a new fresh lens to see the world and kind of

see the deception and the lies and all the stuff we've been talking about, you end up rejecting so much, right? That's fucking fake and bullshit. And that and that and that and that. You just like get it all out. And then you're confronted with the circumstance or question. Well, what do I put back in? Like, how do I construct?

First of all, who am I? Once I let go of my belief and trust and use of all this information. and institutions that I now know are corrupt and full of shit. You know, how do I construct myself? Because like it or not, we obviously use culture to understand ourselves, construct ourselves. I mean, it's a harmonious sort of interplay where both the individual serves the culture, the culture serves the individual. That relationship has been so corrupted that the culture is now a negative influence on the

individual and feedback loop. and then the individual is a negative influence on the culture. But the point is, is like once we reject all that stuff, how do we fill that back up? And one of the things I'm super interested in looking at and observing is how Bitcoiners are doing that. You know,

how they're pursuing different philosophies and, you know, approaches to spirituality and approaches to political ideology and approaches to their health and their wellness and their diet and their relationships and all of that kind of stuff because it's almost like the, the etch-a-sketch has been cleared.

And now it's like, wow, how do I reconstruct this on a foundation of truth and meaning? And how do I discover meaning in this new landscape? And how does my, how does Bitcoin as a, you know, very potent, intense, let's say, nexus of value, how does that help me assess and construct value hierarchies that lead to the things of greatest meaning? And this is what I see, you know, playing out. And my why are we bullish thing was going to be a bit twofold. One, kind of the tension that's happening now and how everyone's kind of like realizing

the game is on and they're grappling with kind of the fear and tension and anxiety of the world falling apart, falling apart, but the excitement of having a tool to actually engage and a group of people to engage to effectively fight back. But the other thing was this, you know, we often delineate now. You hear it a lot in Bitcoin land, like my Fiat self, right, pre-Bitcoin, and now my Bitcoin self. And anyone outside the space might think that's an incredibly weird way to characterize your life for the progression or development of your life. But I think, as I say that now, you're probably, yeah, you're probably all like, oh, yeah, totally, obviously, you know. And so that process that's unfolding of these new, these people that are reconstructing their very personalities and the things, the ways in which they construe and construct and direct.

arrive meaning in their life, that is super exciting to me. Because that's like a genuine big time phenomenon that is, you know, in its very early days and no real precedent by which to understand it immediately. So we just kind of have to observe and talk about it and keep exploring it, which is what I think is super exciting or what I like to do most these days. I love this topic so much because that really resonates with me. like the feeling of the person I was before Bitcoin and now is is just it's so polar opposite. Like it was it was so I mean first of all I was terrible with money like terrible.

I never saved there was never there was never an inclination to save and like part of that was you know like things as a kid like we were we were not well off and I remember saving a lot for to buy myself a bicycle and my mom had to spend that money on groceries because we literally wouldn't have eaten. And so like that was effectively taken away from me all of the fruits of my labor were just gone. But like that's what people are feeling now

as they as they get a raise at their job and then a few years later they still are scraping by even worse than they were before. And so people are disincentivized to and now I'm, I'm hopeful. I'm more analytic about the things I look at. I don't just take things at phase value.

I think I'm, I don't want to say I'm more cynical, but I'm more careful in what I believe when I'm presented with information. That's for sure. And also, like, the way that I measure my life's goals. When I set a goal, it's not a, you know, let's knock this one out in, like, in a day or a week or something,

my time horizon has grown a lot. And actually when I was down in Miami for the Human Rights Foundation, awesome freedom forum, I got speaking with somebody, they're doing, they're actually, they're making a watch that's actually just blocks, block time.

And you like link it to it, which is super awesome. But we got talking on the aspect of measuring time in, and measuring, your progress in life in in havings and epochs and so rather than saying like oh you know I have a new year's resolution or something like that actually saying like what what have I accomplished this epoch before your time frame is massive and the amount of change that can happen to a person in that amount of time and I really really like the idea of of starting to measure

my life in these epochs and having longer term goals and and fitting them into that like the the the you know as g-g his article bitcoin is time and and and thinking of of bitcoin as as how am i actually spending that that only resource that i have that is more limited than more finite than bitcoin my time um it it's really given me a completely different look at and at where i allocate that time and what I can achieve in that time. I really love the idea of, again, that appreciating one's time instead of just taking it for granted and pissing it away as so many of us do, and as I did prior to Bitcoin. So that's definitely a problem.

Well, time becomes your ally rather than your enemy too, right? We can't discount the enormous benefit. And this probably runs subconsciously for most people. But like there's a subconscious anxiety around your future. Of course there is. We all have it to varying degrees. But I think what Bitcoin allows you to do is dial that rate down because you know that your stored labor, the fruits of your labor, which you store in Bitcoin, that's

going to be there. And in this particular slice of time that we're in, it's probably going to increase in purchasing power based on the, you know, the initial adoption or distribution of Bitcoin that we have now. But even in 100 years, you can have that degree of, you know, assurance that what you put in that basket will be there? And to what degree does that declutter your mind? Does that dial down the anxiety so that you can assess your life and your values and the things that you derive meaning from more clearly? And then you can approach them in a healthier way, right? You're not just frenetically and frantically always pursuing and chasing and wondering and worrying.

It helps you really take down all those things that feed into the anxiety about the future, dial them down so that you can more productively move forward and build the life and the families and the businesses that you want to build. And again, amazing, you know. I'd love to hear anybody else in the panel like on with a, with John's topic here. What are the most notable pre and post Bitcoin aspects of your life? Like what has changed in yourself?

I save so much more money. Like so much more money. Like I don't like I know had I gotten the income previously that I now have from the show before Bitcoin I would live at the edge of that. Like, it was just kind of my habit. That was how I dealt with things.

And, you know, if I felt like I was richer, I lived richer. And now I just have no, it just seems totally pointless. It's just like, outside of the things that really matter, outside of the fact that, like, we're trying to start a family, and, like, we want to get this house in order. Like, you know, we could afford a much, much nicer house. but why? You know, it just seems like a good.

The Sartan Drop Guide, that's exactly it, right? Because you said outside the things that really matter, Bitcoin makes you focus, or puts into focus, the things that really matter. And the process by which it does that, you know, very interesting, maybe we don't have time. But just to say, isn't that crazy that this, however this thing is interacting with your psychology,

it's allowing you to identify the things that really matter and then preferentially focus on them. everything else goes into Bitcoin for your future. Isn't that anybody who takes a trip down? Oh, sorry. I was going to say, it seems kind to me, because of course I have a difference. I've noticed a remarkable difference,

is that I have a choice. We put all of our savings into Bitcoin now. And any expenditure, well, I know that I'm not going to liquid any Bitcoin, but I know I could spend it on this or put into Bitcoin, and I know it's going to be worth more. And that is the only struggle.

Can you imagine the joy of this? It's like if I could buy this now, but this would be worth more in maybe five years, and I could buy the flying car that I've been looking at, you know, all these different things. So, so, but, and that's joyous. But I've always, personally, I've always, like I'm going to buy, it doesn't matter what I buy,

I will sometimes take five weeks just to sniff. What I'm going to do? Is this, it's just the one I want, all these. It's slower. That's right. There's no, there's no bearing on the actual. cost, it's like, in five years. And it's just a process that started happening ever since I really, really got into Bitcoin. I noticed it for sure. I would like you, guy, I was always living,

I would always live large. That's why I had to marry a woman with money. Think about that process, just, you know, and then I'll shut up. But like, the fact that we now have this thing that represents such a dramatic opportunity cost, which Adam was just describing, right? If it changes the way you judge all the different opportunities in your life. And I mean opportunities for gratification as well, right, for buying that car or whatever. And so because it represents such a high opportunity cost, the force of that judgment is so intense.

And it basically melts everything else away other than the things that are of the greatest value and meaning to you. Again, like Guy was saying, like his family, like if it's an expenditure that he needs for the health and happiness and well-being of his family, that sort of thing can stand up to the opportunity. cost and maybe things around health and maybe things around beauty and, you know, other things.

But the point is, is like the utility of such a maybe unprecedented opportunity cost or thing that represents such an opportunity cost that it changes the way that you judge and assess everything else in your life seems to mean that the things of greatest value end up emerging and bubbling up to the top. And this is kind of the phenomenon we keep seeing in Bitcoin land. where people are kind of prioritizing a lot of the same things, you know, health and relationships and truth and family and this kind of stuff. Like, why are these things rising to the top? Well, because they're the only things that can stand up to the, to Bitcoin, right, to the opportunity

cost that Bitcoin represents. Super interesting. If I had to make that an analogy, the Fiat system is so subject to the government manipulation, to the access to the ability to issue loans. And because to get new capital, to get the allocation of today's capital, the rush is to get a loan. The rush is to be near the issuance of new money. And because of that, there's no orientation. You know, anything that you could attempt to weigh in value against another, the prices become the prices don't reflect it. The cost is not what you end up thinking like your actual value

metrics. So you lose you lose comparative value. Suddenly it's it's like I don't really I don't know why I want to chase this thing. This thing just seems pointless to chase but it's so worth it. Like there's so much capital over here to chase this thing that really is kind of meaningless. And Bitcoin is value gravity. It pulls you back down and reorients everything so that you can look at your whole world and your life again against a single thing. And when you go to a Bitcoin standard, you realize you can and you can see so far ahead. You look so far out in your life that you stop and you go, it's like, okay, now I can actually tell what these things weigh because I have something to weigh them against. I finally have some sort of totem to see the

world in the context of comparative value because there's been no totem. Everything is just, we've just been out in space kind of floating around and the political class has just kind of pushed us one way or the other. And so we all just kind of go with the wind. And Bitcoin truly does change that. It kind of becomes this totem to, you know, like how much, how much A, Bitcoin is this going to cost or how much B? Bitcoin is this going to get me.

And when it costs something, is it worth that? Because I'm going to lose that Bitcoin. That element of sacrifice is needed for valuation. As you were saying about the Fiat system, like they remove that element of cost, right? And it is that cost. It is that sacrifice.

It is what am I giving up that you need in order to make a comparative valuation. And the skin in the game during monetization of a choice like that is tenfold. Right. And it reached that point, you know, because you just know what the future is. I like that you guys were talking about, again, and Guy John, you were both saying how, you know, if it warrants the expenditure, you know, if it's important enough to kind of make that cut. And when you think about it, when you get down to like what, if money were no object, then what do you actually want, right?

If you could just do anything you wanted, if you're no longer trying to race just to kind of either stay in place or get a little bit better than where you were, if that was just a natural progression of being semi-productive at whatever you're good at. And then the rest of your time, you didn't have to stress about that and think about that. You know, how, yeah, how would how would you spend your time? Obviously, in my head, I want to, I want to travel and spend time with my family. I want to read a book. I want to, you know, I want to do just the things that I enjoy. I want to live a healthy lifestyle. I want to go to the gym. I want to, you know, challenge myself, learn a new skill, maybe a new language. Things like that, all of a sudden, they become accessible and. feasible because you're not stressed trying to figure out ways to make more money and take up more of your time to do so just to make it, just to survive. Yeah. But I'll, I think what I'll do. That sounds really fucking positive, bro. I like that. I like that. The rings threw me off. I was like, did I mean it? I just had to accentuate your excellent.

point. I won. Oh, is that you, Adam? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's great. No, that's good. I need more of those. I need a bell. I'm going to get that for the show. Every time I'm reading an article, I get a really good point. That's what this is for, right here. That's awesome. I think, you know what? While we're at it, Adam, I'm, I think I know this is kind of, we were kind of, I felt like we were kind of rounding out the topic, but I think, Adam, I'd love to segue to you. And I don't know

if it's going to be a clean segue or if it's just going to be like we're shifting gears here. But I would love to hear from you about what you're currently excited about what you're bullish about this week and whether or not it relates to what we're talking

about or if you want to take us on a little bit of a journey you can too. I think it's totally relevant. I'm very bullish because I have a use case of Bitcoin that works and I have the receipts. And this whole conversation was actually a perfect lead-in because for the past 14 years, John C. Dvorak and I have developed the value for value model, which is a word we've been using throughout the past hour value. We developed it on the No Agenda podcast, and it was very simple.

We, well, we didn't want advertising. We just felt that was censorship, even if it's just not being able to talk about a competing product and we didn't really care. But the show when we first started turned out to be a little more work than we thought. And we said, you know, we're putting some work into this. So if you want us to continue, send us something, whatever you think it's worth. And I developed, we developed really a whole methodology, but a pitch that is not that foreign to even a nonprofit, I guess, is without you, we can't do it. But here's the comparison that worked very well for us. If you go, so you just listened to our podcast for two hours.

If you had gone to the movie theater, taken a date, had a popcorn and a drink, it's 50 bucks. Did you enjoy that? Okay, good. Did you have the same enjoyment listening to us? Well, then maybe it was worth 50 bucks. But it doesn't matter. Maybe you, maybe it's worth a lot to you and all you have is five bucks. That's not the point.

It's make it meaningful to you. And what we found is that people would send five. A lot of people. And a significant amount of people sent 50, and there were a couple of 500, and it was a 5,000. And it just showed me like, I value. How can I decide what value is? And we kind of slipped into this really silicon.

Steve Jobs, although I appreciate him very much for what he's done for podcasting, he really determined what digital art would be worth by saying, okay, this is 99 cents. That's what a song is worth. Forget for a second the unbundling of the album and all the other destruction that took place in the music industry. A lot of it is their own fault. But if I listen to the Beatles, I want to hold your hand, you know, I think one of the best love songs ever written, I'll pay $99 for it.

And that doesn't be 99 cents, but I can't even do it even if I wanted to. And worse, no one's asking me. And my wife Tina, who is a semi-retired communications. professional C-suite level. She says the number one reason people don't give to charities, and she worked for nonprofits all her life, is because people didn't ask. So it turns out if you ask,

hey, was this valuable to you? People will answer you. This is quite a fine. So we have lived by this, which, of course, it's scary. We were kind of living Bitcoin life pre-Bitcoin because we just had PayPal. We had no other way to do this,

and you never know what's going to happen. did people like it? Are we going to get enough to pay the rent this month? It always goes up and down. And then you learn all kinds of other things. People start seeing money as content. Like, oh, here's $1.13.37. This is my leap donation. Ah, here's my $80.08. It's a boob donation. Okay. But there's also much more spiritual things. And people, numerology is incredibly important. And it turns into me. memes. And so this concept of exchange, giving someone something and saying, just give me whatever you think it's worth, particularly in a throwaway product like media, turns out the human psyche is really geared for that. And this is a big part of how it intersects with

Bitcoin. Very philanthropic because, you know, Bitcoin only works if a lot of people have it. So we want to make sure that we spray sats as far and wide as we can so people get the joy of that. So now it's my use case. The receipts I have is that we now have in podcasting 2.0 every single day, one million Satoshi's flowing through the Lightning Network from listeners to podcasters, to producers, to service providers, and to app developers. Every single fucking day, a million Satoshes. And, you know, Dave Jones and I started this, and then we got...

By the way, these are stats that were streaming. from people listening to the pod as well. We brought Eric Mackey on board, and the three of us have, you know, we're not getting any money for this, but we have a podcast that goes with it. We set up podcast index.org, which was really set up also to have an uninterruptible index of podcasts.

So, you know, there's a lot of cancel culture, takedowns, all annoying shit that is completely unnecessary. So with that, we were able to, incentivize dozens of app developers who have come on board and are using an uninterruptible index and distributed of content with uninterruptible money. And the way it works is you have a wallet. We basically melded a wallet with a podcast app and you decide how much you want to send per minute while listening to the podcast.

So the minute you hit play, that's when Satoshi start flowing. And some apps have a default at 30 SAT, some 100, some 10. It's all different levels. Then you can also send a boost, which is very much like we're seeing here with SuperChats. You can determine how many sats you want to send. Some have a default of 5,000. We even have boosted grams now. It's new technology, but we're getting there,

where a message shows up along with your token of appreciation, literally. And this system is so beautiful because it goes directly from the listener to the person creating the content in real time. And you're getting ones and zeros and MP3s and you're sending ones and zeros in Satoshi's back. And since we started this, people who were receiving 30 SATs a minute, that's when Bitcoin was 30,000. It's doubled in value and everybody's just stacking it. It's like I got Bitcoin. You know, it's like I'm just holding on to this. We now have, I don't know, the index.

We get 1% of every transaction. We have 28 million sats. You know, we're just going to let that ride for as long as we can. It's beautiful what's going on. And it's the attachment of value to this unit, this, you know, the Satoshi that proves the fucking point. and people are jumping through massive hoops to get into this. You know, we're onboarding people who don't even know what it is who started with, well, what is this internet, you know, circus token?

And now they're like, well, you know, I got all these sats and this is this much and I'm going to do this with it. I'm going to stack it over here. Like, holy crap, this is a massive onboarding moment. And it is showing the true value, but also the concept of living, not, with a paycheck from a big corporation, but kind of what on Tapta is saying is, you know, there's, this is a whole new economy that is being created, the way people compensate each other for certain services. I mean, there's goods always have some fixed cost in it, but for services

and doing things for each other, you just look at the podcasting 2.0 development project, which anyone can join at podcast index.com. Social. If, if you had to put the amount of people together with their skills, you'd have a $2 million a month payroll, and they'd be less honest and less productive. And everybody's winning because ultimately they all get a little piece of Bitcoin if everything they're doing is successful with everybody else. And this group and this movement of people is stunning. I'm very, very happy to be witnessing it.

It's quite the tool that has been created here. and just being able to plug plug into this open monetary network and have that peer to peer interaction. It's just something that it's previously, like you said, wasn't possible, right? There was, it was PayPal. It was it was whatever else. I, I cannot fucking wait for this to be for video as well. It's actually already working. And we're doing it through peer tube because the biggest problem with video is storage and bandwidth.

the cost. Yes. So now, um, not all of them, it's just all getting started. Live is going to work as well. We're going to have, you know, um, live streaming that'll work in your regular at podcast app with the equivalent of super chats, which we call booster grams, which will show up separately. Oh, bro, we're going to do versus on this shit. This is going to be so fucking cool when, once we're rolled out. It's, it's, it's, this is what everyone's going to do. It's, there's no stopping it. Yeah. Well, and like even just when it comes down to the math of, of, you know, what you would make off something like YouTube revenue versus something like this, even just in the in the tiniest little bit. If if somebody was willing to let's let's say you have a decent following and you do a podcast that's an hour long and and, and 10,000 people listen to it. You know, what, what do you make? owe to that from like regular ad revenue, not much, right? This is the, this is the big, the big, so the couple of things we got to set straight.

First of all, the mainstream media does not have anywhere near the narrative of alternative media. It's a fact. Just look at the numbers. They have no numbers. The only consistent information outlet is Fox News that has, you know, at prime time, almost 3 million viewers, which is shit. It's nothing. Joe Rogan has 10 million.

No agenda has almost one and a half million. Tim Poole, Tim Dillon, I can go on forever. Megan Kelly, the alternative narrative is way more powerful, only we don't realize it yet. And so we, and, you know, politicians and their messaging system, you know, it's still do an interview with CBS, 60 minutes, do meet the press. do the New York Times, do the Washington Post. Okay, everyone understands what we're doing. The message is clear.

That's broken. That doesn't work anymore. It's the same thing. Fiat. Exactly. It's the only reason Fiat existed is because it was built on the foundation of gold. It was built on the foundation of sound money. And so there was this tale of 40, 50 years in which,

even after being completely disconnected from anything of value in losing any of its monetary assurances, it continued to hold the prestige, the appearance of good money. And I think that's where we are with a main. It's a very important connection you make here, Guy. That's absolutely true. It's the same thing.

And the quicker we realize it the better, and parents at the school boards, they're realizing it. You know what they can do in America? Start their own school. That's, that, is that simple. Just making a damn school. Like, you know, I'm learning how to field dress a deer. You know, I have no illusions that we may not be,

able to get to meet for a bit, you know, that may happen. Okay, so, you know, we're going to have to rely on each other. And you know, I'm going to ask bird dog across the way to go kill one for me, and I'll send sats to him. I love that. That's incredible. Yeah. And I mean, I won't be far from you, Adam. I'll be up north of you in Oklahoma with plenty of cows. Right on, right on. I got to get south of the ice wall, guys. I don't know. I'll make my way. I'll get my dog sled team. I'll So anyway, I'm super bullish, really, and also just bullish about seeing you guys and this whole, this whole group of very enthusiastic people who have figured it out and are still learning and growing and it's great to watch. You know, I love it. Yeah, this is, yeah, it's, it's pretty incredible.

I don't know if anybody else has any, you know, thoughts on what Adam's doing, any, anything that you want to tag into the conversation before we move into our, into our. last reason, but feel free. Well, I've been... Well, I'll just say a public, you know, kudos and thank you because it's fucking awesome. And I love podcasting 2.0. And there's, it's obviously super early days, but the potential is mind bending. And so, you know, I use it on my pod, the CT pod. We've done some cool stuff with the episode splits so that like the stream goes to

different, you know, people in each episode. And it's, I mean, so. much potential. So it's super fun to be working on it. And again, kudos for getting the ball rolling. Thank you, man. And those splits that you mentioned, I'm so excited about that because that is, in essence, a decentralized royalty distribution system. So we will circumvent ASCAP, BMI, Harry Fox agency, all these cock suckers who take everyone's money and then give it to the wrong people and you wind up with a goddamn penny at the end. We're going to disintermediate them.

Amen. And you know, you make, you know, everyone's a Seinfeld now. You make Evergreen content 10 years from now. If you were the audio guy on that show or if you were the guest, you're getting the streaming sats, you know, that people are streaming when they listen to. You always get your share. And I think out of everything,

whether or not it ends up as a subscription model, a pay-by-the-minute model, like streaming sat. Like, it could be any model when we're talking. talking about how to pay for it. But the real thing that's happening is that you're attaching a key send address to the infrastructure of all of our communication. That's right. RSS to the video, to the metadata on your messages. Like all of it is being connected to a massive Rube Goldberg machine, man. It's just all the ping pong ball falls on the spoon and flips up the dog's tail. That's what it is. and I think that's going to like really change things like when when you're getting paid for the content directly on a subset of how the payout happens written in the just tags in the instructions of how to download the content you can so here's your payment you can do it all yourself you don't need Apple or Google or Facebook or Spotify there are no royalties like like the idea of royalties don't matter because you get paid directly direct through the content

the content is your royalty yeah it's so much it's so much more gratifying too because like you're getting a streaming payment from someone anonymously so they're not broadcasting who they are they're not asking for credit for it they didn't have to do it right but they're still sending you bitcoin which i know we all basically revere you know and it's it's when someone gives you bitcoin like it's a thing right and they're doing it you feel good yeah you feel great yeah exactly it's amazing even a hundred satch like shit, man, it's 100 sats I got. I know, it's crazy. Someone actually somewhere in the world is sending me 100

sets because I like what I did. Those 100 sats will put groceries on the table for my great-grandchildren. For no agenda, we have Dredge Scott. He does chapters. We have, you know, podcasting 2.0 has a lot of cool features. And so he does those chapters and we give him 5% split. The clip custodian, who used to be a janitor in a school. and now he's also like, fuck it, I'm going to, I'm going to be my own free man, but he gets a part of the split because he sends in lots of clips.

And it goes on in perpetuity. And on podcasting 2.0, we have a guest. The guest gets a split. Most recently, Oscar Mary from the Fountain app, he said, you know, hey, why don't we create a fund? And he set up a node. And this fund is for any podcaster to send some sats, some split of their sats to. and we're going to use that to onboard new people by giving them a podcast app that already has a couple thousand stats in it. So this collaboration is mind-boggling what is possible. And I think it'll be going long after I'm gone. Another thing we've been doing just to put a pin on this one, which is just, again,

super cool, so many possibilities just early days. But a lot of the guests will opt to direct their stream to a charity that receives lightning payments, right? So, for example, a recent one like Preston directed a stream at Human Rights Foundation. So how kind of cool is it? And that'll, in some podcast apps, that'll be articulated or there'll be a note about that. Right. So how cool it be to like you're getting the content you want.

You're thanking the content creator. As you're listening, you have the knowledge that you're supporting XYZ cause, you know, just it enriches the experience in many, many ways. And it's interesting you say that because my wife, the last place she worked is Ronald McDonald's charities, the Ronald McDonald's house where parents can stay if their child is sick in the hospital at no charge. And that's kind of our forever charity, but we're now setting them up to have exactly the same. So they have a lightning node. They can receive it and they can get splits from from podcasters who want to support them in that way. This is happening so fast. And for a reasonably

old kind of conservative charity, you know, to say, fuck it, we'll take your shots. Yeah, it's good. We don't care. Everybody wants a monetary spigot directed at them. Who would say no to that? Yeah. You know, that's something, this is very much attached to one of the reasons I'm really bullish about Bitcoin right now. You can segue into it if you like. Here we go.

It hasn't lost focus. It hasn't lost focus. The mission remains and still is about, about making money work, about making a good money, a global infrastructure for monetary value. And we are just, you know, we went through a two-year node and lightning channel bear market. Like, it spiked and it was super exciting in 2018. And then it kind of teetered off.

But we never lost focus. we're still building we're still figuring out how to make that channel update a little bit better why did this channel close and still sit there okay let's figure that out like it's just iteration

iteration by iteration by iteration working out all the kinks have you seen the lightning chart lately have you seen the channels and the nodes it's steeper than the Bitcoin price chart for Christ's sake and we're

working out all the kink and we're not getting distracted with shit tokens and like building arbitrage into the fucking blockchain and selling NFTs like no we're just we're just here to fix money we're just gonna fix money and that's what we're doing and lightning network feels like that moment when email was really a pain in the ass to use and you had to set up an email server and you had it you really had to punch that shit in you had to give a command to your fucking modem like I'm not sure like

people really remember how I mean Adam probably does I do now of annoying and ridiculous email. Right? Yeah. And it was a real pain in the ass one day. But then there was this point where it was like everybody's like, well, yeah, but this is like crazy, useful. And even though it's a little bit unreliable here, here and here, or a little bit hard to use here here here here here, we should figure out how to integrate this. And it seems to be getting a little bit better all the time.

And I think that's where we are in lightning. Like lightning is seeing a hell of a move. taproot is in like a what are we at 20 days something like that in that vein guy i would like to just put out a cautionary tale uh which may be more oriented in the shit coin world but there's kind of this web 3.0 idea that floats a little bit around the lightning network and i kind of want to uh jump behind roy from breeze and say i just read that article it's gonna be on the really good article and he and i talk regularly and he sets me straight you know him and dennis parker these are the people who tell me what the fuck i should be thinking and they help me a lot and and uh and i think he's

right that you know we should not try and make web 3.0 out of the lightning network or any other type of blockchain but just fix the money just just just integrate it make it work that's fantastic that that is clearly the way to go all the protocols we've developed i mean just look just look at at activity pub and how well that has done for decentralized content, you know, subscription publication with Mastodon and Pluroma and New Social, et cetera. We've kind of figured all that out. The only thing that was broken is, you know, the A, people thinking they have to be somewhere because that's where everybody is. And once you get beyond that and realize that with a thousand people in your group, you know, who each give you one buck, you know, in Sats, you're going to

look pretty good versus someone who's trying to come back to your question, been coming back to, you know, trying to make some advertising money or make a living out of whatever you're doing. So let's just keep the money part fixed, you know, that, keep that continuously getting better and not try and recreate a wheel, which is perfectly fine. Yeah. Yeah. I still have to die. I haven't read the article yet, You got to read that. It's really good. I mean, I'll have it in audio probably early next week. So you can listen to it if you're like.

That's going to be my, well, I'm driving the kids to preschool or something. That'll be my schick. Yeah, that'll be great. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, guy, I like what you're saying about the innovation moving forward. And I like that you were talking about the bear market. market and we built through it.

And I say we. I mean, I'm just, I just tag along and test all the shit afterwards. But, but, Hey man, come on. I downloaded some clients and stuff. I hope.

But it's true. Like, it's, it, you get to see that the people that are, are kind of here for the right reasons in the depths of the bear market. That's the kind of the best time to be a bit coiner is,

is, you know, like, you know, Bitcoin 2021 was awesome, but like Bitcoin 2023, it's going to be a fucking banger because you'll see who's still there, right? And, and you know, as things ebb and flow, you know, it's, you see the familiar faces that you saw before and whether it be a bear market or a bull market, you make that eye contact and you give each other the nod because you know that you've

both been through the through some shit and and and and you've got the battle scars to prove it and uh and you stuck it out and you you kept on uh being a part of the the revolution and i think it's a beautiful thing i love sharing that with people god let's all hug now tell me yeah i'm so glad i was here in 2019 because i've got so many people wanting to volunteer and help with the citadel building stuff i'm doing and with all this bull market chaos of the noise it's hard to know who the real people are right but being here during that earlier time where it was so painful i know who the real faces are it's like i can easily be like okay sole exporter knows you you were here back 2018 19 you were here when it hurt like you're you're you're you're one of the real ones come on come over here and help me you know

yeah yeah it's uh it's it's you know and it's every every kind of you know ebb and flow it captures some of the noobs too, right? Like you get to see the people that, all right, I saw, I saw you when shit was getting bubbly and there was a lot of noise out there. And now things have calmed down and you're still here. So I know you're here for the long haul.

And that's, I love seeing seeing who sticks around, who gets it and, and who doesn't. I think, you know, if we want to, yeah, we could say like maybe, one of the primary functions of Bitcoin Twitter is like refining these ideas, right? We're all trying to get our heads around this thing and figure out how we should be approaching it all. But a very close second, if it's not the first, is we want, you mean, we're kind of observing

character. We want to see what everyone's about, who's who, who can be trusted, what, you know, and people act and they engage on Twitter and obviously you come away with a sense of that. And, you know, I think, speaking of Bitcoin 2021, that conference was like a way for you to kind of celebrate the character observations and relationship building you'd been doing over the course of the previous year or two. Dude, it was fire festival too. Yeah, I mean, I know you're a real motherfucker. Get over here and give me a hug.

You know, I fucking love you. And that's, that's awesome, right? Because it's that no bullshit environment where people can smell bullshit, right? And plebs call it out whenever they even get a whiff of a cent. And that's amazing because it one forces you to not be full of shit, to speak honestly, to be yourself, to be humble.

And it allows you to see who people really are and build relationships off the back of it. I mean, it's, you know, what more do you want? Especially now when you need those trusted relationships. Yeah. Yeah.

I enjoyed how people, um, well, the, the, the, the, the,

They honed in on the signal through the noise because I mean it's you know it's been a big year so so obviously there's going to be a flocking of of shit coinery that's going to descend upon any any event. But if you knew what you were looking for, you could find it, right? I flock to the to the swan dome and like hung out there with people and like all the all the side stage stuff was kind of for me where it was at outside of like mallors you know being awesome on stage and like guy you had a fire panel and there's there's like some really good stuff but um you know you you just you cut off the fat you cut off the stuff that that um you don't uh that's inevitably going to come up up and you look for the signal through the noise and the corners are good at that. And there's just less noise when it's not a crazy year. I think what I want to do now last is just kind of do a quick round of final thoughts for everybody. Guy, did we address your, that was your, you were kind of getting into the, we kept

on building or did you have anything else you wanted to add on to that before we do any of that? That was pretty much it. We stayed the turtle. We stayed focused. We made step by step, and we've continued on the mission of fixing money. And I think Bitcoin is going to, Bitcoin and Lightning together. And even liquid, I've found myself using, actually using liquid, like kind of more in a normal sense. And I just spun up my state chain wallet, Mercury wallet.

You heard about that? I haven't. No. I'll talk about that. Yeah. But it's a Ruben Sompson's state chain idea. It's like Bitcoin bills on the chain. So you actually have different UTXOs

that you can continue to move back and forth or exchange. And you actually have to like make change. You have to get like a 0.1 Bitcoin UtXO, a 0.01 Bitcoin UtXO. But those UTXOs stay static, but you can constantly change their ownership. So it's like lightning except with virtual bills. Really interesting.

concept. So you could, so, so feasibly you could have like, uh, you know, um, you could, you could be plugging in sparrow. You could be pumping out coin joined 100,000 sat UTXOs and exchanging those, uh, in state chains potentially. Yeah, yeah, you could wrap them up like you could swap them into a state chain or whatever and like you're, you're swapping UTXOs and you can make them into a bunch of different denominations of Bitcoin. And then they can, you know, spread you can send them out on the state chain. So it's like having a crisp $100 bill and just

there you go. I like that. Huh. Interesting. I'm going to have to play around with that. Sweet. All right. Well, let's do a quick round of final thoughts. Basically, I'll just go down the line. I'll call on you and of course

let people know where they can find you what you're at, anything you want to direct them to. And then just any final thoughts on anything that we chatted about today would be super awesome. So untapped, I'll head over to you first, Matt. All right. You can find me on Twitter, Untapped Growth. My website's Untapgrowth.com. My final thoughts would be Bitcoin's fixing the money, but everything else is up to us. I think it's time to start leading forward into that emergent world of how do we start preparing

for what's next? What are the things we need to be expecting? Like, what are the potential, like, hiccups and road bumps we need to be solving for and getting ourselves into a position where we can be leaders in that new world i like that i see a lot of uh uh bit corners like yourself taking the initiative which is fantastic um i think you'll see you a lot more of that i think that's something that that bit corners will lean into and and i'm seeing it currently so uh yeah excellent final thought i love that let's toss it down to adam adam once again let people know where they can find you and what you're working on and final thoughts you can find me on mastodon adam at podcast index dot social buck twitter um i would implore everybody if you have a boost button

here's your cue to boost you know you want to if you don't have a boost button on your podcast app get a better one at new podcast apps dot com uh pleasure to meet, of course, Guy, I'd already met you before. Nice to hang out with you guys. I really appreciate it. And I'll leave this last one with you from the great Reverend Manning. They're saying that all hell is going to break loose and you're going to need a Bitcoin. Just so you know.

That was fantastic. I need, why don't I have like a sound switchboard here? That is a profoundly dense line. It was a profoundly dense line. All hell's about break loose. You got to get yourself from Bitcoin. It's the best of the most dense value advice per word. Yes.

Worse to live by. Worse to live by. Guy, you may as well, again, let people know where they can find you, what you're working on. And any final thoughts? Yeah, yeah. Just listen to Bitcoin Audible. We got episodes all the time working on two audio books. The seventh property by Eric.

Rick Yakes on the back end of that one. And at the same time finishing up the Fiat standard, Safedine's new book, both of them are phenomenal. I've been getting into them, like going chapter to chapter, like back and forth. But yeah, I'm the guy Swan on Twitter. And I just wanted in to, in case anybody didn't notice, Nightig bought bottle pay.

Did everybody see that? Didn't see that. No. Nightig, which is plugging into like 200 banks. And they've been sitting on like a lot of like, I've been like kind of watching like things as, as they go. And I feel like, I feel like there's something big coming from them,

uh, probably in the next few months. And they just bought bottle pay. So the lightning app. And they're banking institution. They're plugging in banks here. Um, but they bought bottle pay for $300 million.

Shit. That's so. Oh. It's just something I'm keeping an eye on and I think it's worth mentioning. Wow. Huh. All right. It really is a vow of poverty compared to this.

Oh, man. All right. Well, John, you get to lead us out here. Again, let people know where they can find you and what you're doing. And any final thoughts? Yeah, Joel's final thoughts made me think of a quote from some notes I was taken earlier, but I can't find it right now, unfortunately. But yeah, on Twitter and the podcast is Bitcoin Rapid Fire and closing the loop.

But, you know, I'm, as corny as this sounds, I'm just excited. Like, I feel alive, I guess, is the best way to put it. Like, we're in this crazy time where the old shitty corrupt decaying system is reaching its zenith and its kind of death throws and this new, fairer, better, more truthful world is coalescing and emerging from it. and we all know it's going to be, you know, it's probably not going to be a super easy divorce, but we're all here for it because we know what lies on the other side of it. And even though I oscillate between anxiety like an extreme excitement, that tension makes me just feel really fucking alive.

And I love it. So that's my final thought. Awesome. Well, guys, again, I appreciate all of your time so much. I feel like this was an awesome conversation. I had a blast. I hope you guys did too. All of you, of course, are welcome back anytime.

Yeah. And yeah, guys, I will see you again soon. Everybody watching, by the way, all these guys, their Twitter handles are in the show notes. But as Adam said, fuck Twitter. You can find them on Massadown. So maybe through the grapevine, get your way over there. but gentlemen, thank you again for being here.

I'm going to cut your audio video and do a little. Thanks, Ben. See, boys. I appreciate you. Bye. Later, guys. All right. And everybody that is viewing right now,

thank you for being here. As always, please do hit, like, subscribe, and share if you're here on YouTube. If you're on the podcast, especially if you're into the podcasting 2.0, feel free to smash that boost button. you know, or if you like listening to these audio only later,

yes, of course, they're available on all the podcast platforms. I really like Breeze. I really like Fountain app. Those are pretty awesome for the podcasting 2.0 stuff. As always, of course, you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors down below. Those were Shake Pay, Ledden, Bit Refill, Keystone, and Bill Fottle. and if you really liked what you saw, you can always hit me up with a Bitcoin tip at my strike page.

That is strike. Dot me slash BTC sessions. When you get there, you type in any amount you like. You hit the tip button. You'll be greeted with a lightning invoice or if you tap to the right, a regular Bitcoin QR code.

That is it, guys. That was a hell of a conversation. Again, I really had a blast. I'm glad you guys could be here. Have a great day or evening, wherever you may be. See you guys next time. for your daily session.