BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Alex McShane, Mitch Morse, Euro Dale ep254

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

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What is going on, everybody. Welcome to the show. Another Friday. Another, why are we bullish? We've got all new guests this week. First time on the show for all of them, although I've interacted with them in different capacities, both in depending on who it is,

meet space and online. But I'm very excited to have all these gentlemen here. Hope you guys are having a good week as well. Now, as always, this is live. Anything can happen. I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay.

We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The fucking thing sucks. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share. All those things, super important. They really do help to get the show in front of more eyeballs. And as always, I am Ben with the BTC sessions.

This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a look. at where we are on the market right now. A single coin, 38,544 U.S. dollars. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 2,594 sats. 90.6% of all Bitcoin have been mined. And in terms of fees, it looks like six sats per byte for the next block. And if you're willing to wait an hour, one sat per byte should do you.

So not so bad. We've seen some tips upwards in the fees and the mempool the last little bit. But it always seems to settle back down. up to 10 sats per bite. Other than that, shout to sponsors of the show, ShakePay.com. If you're in Canada and you're buying Bitcoin, super easy way to do it. E-transfer is in and out. No fees involved with that.

Thin spread on top of that. If you sign up with the link down below and you purchase your first 100 bucks for the Bitcoin, they'll give you 30 bucks for free. You get the same deal if you recommend to your friends and family, and then you can shake your phone every single day for free sats. They've also got their sats back visa card. Check them out in the links down below. Lendon.io, you can use your Bitcoin for a ton of different services,

in particular if you're in a pinch and you need dollars, but you don't want to sell your Bitcoin. Well, you can deposit Bitcoin here, get a loan of dollars to your bank account within 24 hours. You pay back those dollars. You get back the same amount of Bitcoin. They also have savings accounts for Bitcoin and USDC. They've got their B2X offering,

and they're starting to offer Bitcoin-backed mortgages. So keep an eye out. Links are below. Bit refill helps a ton when it comes to living on Bitcoin. in more ways than one now. Number one, you can pick up any gift card, your little heart desires in a ton of different countries and you can pay with Bitcoin,

both on-chain and Lightning Network. You earn sats back as you shop, and you can earn even more sats back with the referral program. But now they're starting to roll out bill payments in the U.S. So all of you that are in the U.S. that maybe have been jealous of me using bull Bitcoin to pay my bills with Bitcoin, looks like you may have a good contender down there south of the border.

So check them out. Links are down below as well. Keystone, one of my favorite and most used hardware wallets, 100% air-gapped. You never plug it into anything internet connected. Everything's done offline via QR code. And that keeps the keys to your money safe and away from internet connections. Definitely upgrade to the Bitcoin-only firmware. And it works great with Blue Wallet, Sparrow Specter.

Awesome in a multi-sig. I've done a full tutorial on it. Check it out. Links are below. And finally, if you're backing up any important Bitcoin wallet, get it in solid steel friends. Paper doesn't cut it. I use a bill foddle over at privacyprose.io.

And yeah, you know, fire damage, water damage, the gamut. Get that piece of mind. This is how I do it. So check them out. And enough of my rambling here. Let me bring in my guests here. We've got Alex. We've got Mitch.

We got Dale. Welcome, gentlemen. Very happy to have you. We're going to do a quick round of intros so you can introduce yourself who you are and what you do. Let's start with Alex. Dude, who are you? What do you do?

Hey, I'm Alex McShane. I had a video over at Bitcoin Magazine, Bitcoin Inc. You might have caught me at the conference, do a lot of work with them as well. The side stage that kind of did the playback material after speakers would go on in front of the giant volcano. That's where I got to meet BTC sessions in person. And that's a project of mine, also a writer. But yeah, I'll pass it to Eurodale. And Dale, I'll take it away.

I'm a YouTube star. I'm a big host of Scandinavia's biggest Bitcoin program. It's called Conjuriket, but we're relaunching it as plebs. Dot City to make it a bit more accessible to our international audience. I actually launched that domain today, so be free to check out plebs. Dot City, but all you can do is to sign up for our email list, of course, for the moment. Yeah, we're the world's biggest Bitcoin community in members per capita, and we're excited to finally bring Norway to the world.

That's awesome, man. That's very exciting. And welcome to the show. I got to meet you in Miami as well, and that was awesome. So glad to have you here. Let's kick it down the line to Mitch. Welcome, dude. Let people know who you are and what you do.

Thank you. Yeah, my name's Mitch. I am one of the co-organizers of the Kansas City Bitcoin Meetup, KCbitcoins.com, and co-host of a new-ish podcast called The Orange Pill Addicts, we're like episode 15 now. So that's been super fun. And yeah, just all about encouraging the meetup scene and the local kind of Bitcoin economy as much as possible. Awesome.

Well, gentlemen, I am very excited to have you all here. Thank you for being here and taking the time. And also shout out to everybody in the chat that is here. I see we have some Norwegians in the room that have been saying hello. So welcome to anybody that may be. new to the channel. Eurodale has been, I'm sure,

pitching this out to his own audience. So, and, and, you know, let's return the favor. If you're not familiar with Dale, and for, for, for the rest of the panel,

whether it be Mitch or Alex McShane, be sure to check them all out. Their Twitter handles are in these show notes so you can give them a follow and then find all their stuff from there. But those that are unfamiliar with the show, This is why are we bullish.

We go by a very simple premise. We go by the three R's. Somebody is first going to drop a reason why they're feeling bullish and get a little rant on that. Then we will altogether riff on that reason. And then finally we'll rotate to the next person until all of us have had had a chance to get our bullishness off our chest. So I'm going to be giving us a start here. And I'm bullish this week on Bitcoin hardware. And I'm going to get specific in a minute.

But more broadly, there are so many great companies building incredible things out there. And the plethora of options that people coming into the Bitcoin space have in terms of hardware options to secure their coins, whether it be just single-sig or multi-sig and all of the ways that you can put. that together is incredible. Now, the reason why I'm bullish, particularly on, on, uh, on, uh, hardware today is that I just got my cold card mark four in the mail. And I'm super, super stoked for this. Uh, I am a huge cold card fan. Um, Coin Kite is doing some awesome, awesome work. I've got probably already five other cold cards kicking around. So this is like number six. Um, so I love doing testing stuff like that. I love

doing the multi-sig stuff. The new one, I guess, has NFC enabled and USBC for power and all kinds of awesome stuff with it. So I'm going to be diving down that rabbit hole. And now that I think of it,

I do have other cords, but I'm going to have to order one of those fancy magnetic USBC cords for my air gap via the cold power. So there's just so much to play with. On top of that, I've got to give a shout to Coin Guy for the other stuff that they've got coming down the pipe. In particular, the Sats card I'm super interested in. If those unfamiliar, there's something called an open dime, which looks like a little USB stick, but it's,

it's like a bearer instrument for Bitcoin. You can load it up with Bitcoin, but then you can give it to an individual. So let's say I gave an open dime with one Bitcoin to Mitch. I'm not going to do that, but let's say I did. Mitch could leave that transaction, walk away with the open dime, and be confident that I would not be able to sweep the funds off of the open dime after the fact. So in an instance of you're buying an expensive item, you can actually use an open dime as a way to transact and somebody can audit the amount of Bitcoin on there and know that nobody has ever seen the private key. The Sats card takes that another step further. And it's, It's like a credit card sized item, but it actually has 10 digital slots on it that function

the exact same as an open dime does. So slot number one, you load it up with Bitcoin. Somebody takes it. They want to move, like you give the card to somebody, they want to move that Bitcoin that effectively unseals that slot and will give a warning to anybody moving forward that that slot is no longer valid, move on to the next one. And there's 10 slots. So it's basically like 10 open dimes in a single card that function exactly the same as a bearer instrument for Bitcoin.

So they're in the midst of rolling those out. I imagine they're jumping through the hurdles of getting all the Mark 4 shipped first before they roll out the stats card. But yeah, they're doing some cool things. And I'm very excited. And I guess while I'm on the topic, I'll just give this a little shill because I'm actually doing an event. in and around, in and around cold card itself. I'm heading to Vancouver and Colonna. And I'm doing like a self-custody beginner workshop in the a.m.s on, on these,

these events. But then in the afternoons, I'm doing like a deep dive on cold card because it's so awesome and there's so many things to learn. So I'm going to be covering like, you know, basic setup. But then beyond that, learning air gap transactions, learning how to do an encrypted backup to SD card, the seed XOR backup where you split your seed in two, pass phrases, decoy wallets. We're going to kind of run the gamut on that.

So if you're in Vancouver or Colonna, I will be out there in July, and you can find all that on the website, BTCsessions.ca.ca. Slash events, if you want to get specific. But again, my main topic here, I'm bullish on hardware, and in particular, I'm super excited to get my hands on this Mark 4 and start playing. So I'm going to open it up to you guys. I think I'll just throw out the general question for you guys. What kind of hardware are you working with?

What do you like using? What's your favorite? So I'll just open it up. I'll say I'm excited about your workshops for the cold card. And I'm a huge cold card fan. I'm jealous that you've got your Mach 4 already. I'm here working with. You know, I keep a number of threes hanging out.

I'm always sending them to friends and family. You know, when you first get into the Bitcoin space, you'll probably hear three hardware suggestions off the bat, and that is, at least in the States, you'll hear ledger, treasur, and then cold card if you're technically savvy. And I have since stopped recommending the first two and just told people to challenge themselves and take on the learning curve with as much handholding as they need

for me if they're close to me to learn the cold card because there is no alternative um yeah it's just it's my favorite hardware man i love it how about you guys dale Mitch also have cold card on the desk they sent some from the meet for the meet up to give away so that was awesome of them um great company kind of work within that respect but yeah cold card is my favorite as well um i kind of like a lot of the intermediate features that are on there. You can do the parent child seed, I think is really cool.

So, I use it for like trusted like friends or loved ones who aren't probably ready to do the whole cold card journey on their own. But I can generate a seed off of my cold card, give them that seed. And if they lose it,

I can still recover it. I'm like their ultimate backup. So I know that's a really cool option that I like to use. I actually haven't tried that yet. Parent child seed. Yeah, I can't remember that I think it's a BIP, but I can't remember what BIP it is. Is this a function that's actually in the cold card?

Yeah, I can't remember what it's actually called on the cold card, but basically you can generate as there might be a cap on it, but basically as far as I know, as many child seeds as you want, and you can regenerate those. It uses your private key or public key to generate that. So it can recreate it whenever you want. Okay, yeah, I think I catch your drift there. So that's interesting. Huh, that's, I'm going to have to play around with that.

God, this new cold card video is going to end up being like an hour and a half long, I guess. Because I want like an all in one every possible thing you can do with it. You got a contact David Attenborough and see if he wants to narrate it. Yeah. That would be, that would be fantastic. Yeah. How about you, Dale? What have you played with?

What are your inclinations when you're first dealing with hardware? And again, like, you know, we've had three pretty hard cold card chills here. But there is awesome. Hey, cold card is great. Nothing to, but I guess I want to add something else. And I just want to go back to what you were doing, just open dimes. Like I started buying open dimes just for fun and, like, doing some stuff on my own. But by now, you know, I put in their hands with so many friends and family.

and I've really just used them as tools in so different contexts. And they're just, they're so versatile and so convenient. But I got to say, I'm not a huge hardware guy in general. You know, I'm a content creator. I'm a community leader. Try to be a teacher as much as I can. So my actual hardware repertoire is what I think is limited. You know, I have a cold card.

I have my hardware wallet. And then I play around with some DIY projects, like making a beer tap that I can pay with lightning. I don't know if that counts as hardware, but I have a dream to create the bar. I would put that under the umbrella of hardware. I would give it that title. Okay, fair enough. I mean, this is a weird little thing to be excited by it, but I can't wait for the day

when I can choose to put 862 sats or whatever and get that exact amount of milliliters of beer, no more or no less. Hey, I'm going to have to talk to you about that project because I'm looking for a solution to feed my chickens and have people like a rounder. around the world feed my chickens via lightning invoices. We already have all of that set up as open source. So you can basically apply it to anything that you need to distribute in any quantity, right? That's fantastic.

I love it. Well, I mean, while we're on the topic of hardware, I will give shoutouts to, you know, everybody that's kind of building. I've played around with lots of different types of hardware. Of course, I've done, you know, the Trezor and the Ledger route. And like those are especially for their very beginner friendly for the most part. And some people may step down that route and may never go further than that. And that's okay.

But I do think it's worth exploring the other options in particular, if you're putting a large amount of funds into Bitcoin, it's worth getting your hands dirty and playing around. Like outside of Cold Card, I got to give a shout out. I actually quite enjoy Foundation Passport. It's really good. I mentioned it off the top of the show, but again, the Keystone is solid. When you're setting up a multi-sig 2, particularly on mobile, if you're using that, then having like a combo of different devices that can all air gap is really cool.

And the QR scanning on both the passport and the Keystone make it quick and easy to do too. So I really dig what they're doing there. The new foundation is coming out pretty quick here. I'm not sure exactly when it starts shipping, but I got one coming of those two. But there's just there's so much. And I guess, you know, I can't, I can't neglect the bid blocks as well.

Like that's a solid option as well. So there's so many great possibilities out there. Have you guys played with much multi-sig yet? Can I just say there? like one thing that I'm starting to notice in the way that I'm starting to distribute my Bitcoin is that all these different options with you know different tradeoffs I'm now really starting to spread my funds from everything from just being something that's disposable income versus something that's like hardcore savings for Knox versus stuff that I you know I don't want to feel

too tempted to spend it like put a little extra step there or something but uh yeah uh I think the hardware options the ledger option is great for for beginners and so on but I'm excited to see like how what the culture and best practices will evolve out of this hardware space now that we have so many more tradeoffs to play with all of the all of the wallets that have grown out of are now just decoy wallets around the house you can steal bitcoin from the bathroom the kitchen whatever absolutely i got so somebody brought up um has anybody tried out the engrave seven i'm super unfil- like the name sounds familiar, but I'm basically unfamiliar. I would say when selecting a hardware wallet, be cautious.

It should at least have some flavor of like a Bitcoin-only option because, you know, with more compatibility and complexity comes more attack vectors. So you've got to be very cautious of that. and then I don't know if I want to go to I'm going to say it anyway the Arculus or whatever the hell was yeah the Arculus yeah

Miami 2020 The infamous yeah I don't know about that you guys I don't know a lot about it but it doesn't seem like a thing that I would put money on so yeah I didn't play with it just for fun and it was great to give to girls that didn't know what they were

getting So is that a silver, heavy metal card? It's got Bitcoin. You're like that kid, that viral clip of the kid of the baseball game, where he catches the ball and then he gives it to like. Well, if it's free, you're the product, right? I mean, yeah. Yeah, that sponsorship is under protest by yours truly, by the way.

But I think it goes to show, I mean, you know, support your local Bitcoin developers, your open source creators, your hardware creators, because a lot of these crypto projects receive heavy funding to do crazy marketing campaigns. So just you got to support the little guys. And stupid me, I can't believe I didn't bring it up sooner, but seed signer.

Yes. Seed Siner. Fuck yeah. Just awesome stuff coming out of them. Tell me more about that. I don't know what this stuff. So this is a device and software. that are effectively fully open source.

So you can build your own hardware wallet out of just run-of-the-mill parts that you can get off Amazon, although right now the pie zero is a little bit more difficult to get. But you can build your own hardware wallet, a tiny little thing, and basically put it together, flash the software on it. It's called the seed signer. It is stateless, meaning that it actually doesn't store the seed once you unplug it, or once you cut the power, it's completely independent. And then you create a private key that is like a QR code that can be held separately.

And it's effectively just a signing device. If you want to approve and sign a transaction, then you create the transaction. You scan the private key to approve it. But it can be done entirely offline. You can air gap the transaction. Like it's pretty awesome what's being built. And I did. It's sovereignty taken to a pathological level.

Yeah. Yeah. It is. And so even just as a concept to know that it's possible, that's the important part. That's what people don't get. It's like, some people will look at that and be like, yeah, but who's going to do that? It doesn't matter that everybody does it. It matters that you can do it if you want to.

And that mitigates the risk of. of a clamping down on hardware wallet companies, you know, like in draconian governments where they say, oh, you're not allowed to do this. Bitcoin is banned. You can't ship in any hardware. Well, fuck you. I can source the parts. You don't know what I'm building.

Well, surprise, I just build a hardware wallet anyways. So that is the key kind of takeaway here from what Seed Siner is doing, I think. Yeah, super powerful. That's been on my list for a long time to play around with. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but it looks really cool. Yeah. Yeah, same. I've got like two hours of a Sunday evening that I can dedicate to learning new hardware

and watching BTC sessions videos to learn something. Somebody said the other day, forget what they were talking about. It was some, you know, some app or something to do with whatever the hell the app was. And, oh, it was mining. It was like home mining or something. And I mentioned that I wanted to start tinkering with that and start making a video series on it.

And my friend Mike who runs coin cards, he's like, to be honest, I've just been waiting for you to make a video because otherwise I'm just totally lost. So yeah, I guess we'll have to dabble in that at some point. But again, shout out to Seed Siner. I'm going to do an updated video of the device and everything because the firmware that they've upgraded to is basically an entirely different experience from what I made the first video, which is par for the course when you make a tutorial.

But yeah, I guess that's it. Any final thoughts regarding hardware, anything that you find interesting, anything that you're about to tinker with? Any final thoughts? I would just say it's a great orange pill If you have I don't know any given piece of tried and true Bitcoin hardware Like Dale was saying

The open dimes make for a very interesting gift That kind of give someone immediate stake in the game And just lend legitimacy by interest to Bitcoin So it's just great to have a couple on hand to distribute it Yeah 100%. People feel like they've got the curiosity factor kicks in, right? They get, oh, this is cool.

It's like, it's the old days of when you get some sort of new piece of electronics and you want to tinker with it, you want to play. So you have to- Everyone intuitive understands that you just need to plug this into your computer. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to know much more than that, and then you can work it out from there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right, well, let's wrap this topic.

up and we'll give it a rotation. Before we do, I'll just say, Mike in the comments asked if I'm planning on visiting Houston. I mean, maybe. It's all kind of contingent on how these first two go. If they do well and people attend them, then yeah, I'll go wherever the hell people want me to go. But I got to make sure it's economically feasible first. So we'll see. So if you really want that to happen, then go. I pinned a tweet on my Twitter. Twitter, share it out. That's the event page. But yeah, let's do a little rotation here.

I'm going to jump to Alex, and I'm going to let you take it away with your reason for being bullish. What are you feeling this week? What's got you excited? Well, my reason for being bullish, you know, Central African Republic, very cool. But I'm always kind of like a let's wait and see kind of guy. I think like the distinction between the adoption there, outside of geography. is like El Salvador wasn't a top-down adoption, right?

This was fundamentally like Bitcoin Beach happened first. This came from the bottom up and the government had a chance to either squash it or embrace it. And the reason I'm bullish now, even though, you know, probably a year ago we all thought would be at much higher prices is the community is still alive and well. Bitcoin is in the news every single day of the week. A lot of it's, you know, nothing burgers. but it's on people's minds and you've got just so much innovation and marketing and community building happening that we're developing small pockets of Bitcoin economies all over the world.

And I think I didn't really realize that. I mean, I finally have kind of digested what happened at the Bitcoin conference and what like an overwhelming experience that was to be surrounded by so many Bitcoiners, but also so much Bitcoin commerce that it just really makes me bullish on, you know, free trade and sovereignty and Bitcoiners' ability to be entrepreneurs. So kind of, kind of all over the place in general, but I'm just, I'm bullish on the Bitcoin small economies, I guess I would say. Yeah, I'd echo kind of your sentiment that despite current price action, it's, it's like

it's there's just been so much going on like think of the amount of news and interesting new developments and both on a technological and geopolitical um and like payments infrastructure like all of these different facets of bitcoin have just been it's like non-stop fucking incredible news on the daily um yeah and you're right there's some nothing burgers as well but i mean think back to 2014-2015 the nothing burgers were like mind-blowing you know somebody'd be like oh there's a corner store

in Iowa that accepts bitcoin and it would be like top top entry on Reddit and everybody's freaking out like it's it's shifted so much to the point where Jack Mallors you know boots open the door on stage and says yo one in six point of sale terminals on Earth will be able to accept Bitcoin and everybody's like

we are so spoiled. It's insane. I don't know, I'll let Dale or Mitch chime in here, but what do you feel about what Alex said? I think he's spot on. I mean, I think like price can do whatever it wants to do short term, but if we keep getting number go up on these local economies and these meetups and things,

like that's one of the most important numbers to me. And I think that's super strong. At the Bitcoin conference, they had like a mega meetup, which was like the meetup of all the organizers of the meetups across the world. And that was like one of my favorite, if not my favorite event. Just like people talking about tricks of the trade, what they're doing with their meetup and like sharing ideas with how to increase their meetup and better educate their communities.

So I totally agree. it's a fantastic reason to be bullish like meetups are on the up and up local economies are on the up and up for sure and it's beautiful like no one's subsidizing those right these are true grassroots movements that are persisting in what i would call and i'm sorry to be the bear here but like somewhat of a bare market uh which is it's beautiful i mean it just goes to prove the point again that number go up at least on adoption and people do not cycle out of bitcoin once you grok it you're in it for good And TikTok next block is not just a technological concept that also happens in the way that we're building our culture and community around this.

And I really feel that with how even though you go through this, what you call beer market or whatever, the bedrock here now is so solid and growing and the work is being done every single day. We've already been on the hardware track on this, but also the community side and the political side. I mean, Europe, it's a place where, You don't get these kind of, they're very stale old societies where you don't get this like massive

change that you do with El Salvador or like the dynamism of the US. So here we really have to rely on this one thing that we have to be bullish on, which is PLEBS. You've got to be bullish on PLEBs. The grassroot stuff is so powerful, right? Like there's, you know, obviously there was Bitcoin Beach, but there's Bitcoin Lake and in Guano, Guatemala, I think. And then in Costa Rica now, Bitcoin jungle, right? And so like all these just kind of like grassroots, hey, let's get merchants accepting.

Let's let's kind of build this like local economy around Bitcoin. And it's funny because it was kind of, it was like a meme back in 2014, 2015 merchant adoption. You know, I was, oh, we got to get merchants on board. But it came from a place that the logic was kind of ass backwards where it was like, oh, we'll get, we'll get merchants or will like pest or merchants until they accept it. And it was like a marketing stick for them. It was like, hey, we accept Bitcoin. Come here and spend your Bitcoin.

And they wanted dollars, right? They just wanted dollars. And they thought it was like a thing that would get them in the news, which it kind of did for a little bit. But then it became stale and nobody gave it fuck. And now it's different. Like it's being approached from in a lot of cases a place of, you know, Bitcoin can genuinely help, especially in areas where, you know, they deal with a lot of remittances. But then you also get just regular brick and mortar stores that are like, no, we want this on our balance sheet.

So we're just going to accept it and then we'll just hold it. Right. And so you get tahini's, for example, in. in Canada here. They just said, hey, you know, this is important to us. We're going to, we want the Bitcoin. We're going to hold on to that. So it's kind of the same mission, but with a different underlying purpose to it.

And I buy it more this time because of that underlying purpose. Yeah, I would say, I mean, just anecdotally, I think everyone's got to have a Bitcoin take at this point, right? Like we're just an item line on everyone's future, whether that's, you know, they'll be buying Bitcoin or rejecting it out of hand and buying it later at much higher prices. But I notice now when I go places, like, especially in Uber's, I made several requests to drivers heading to Miami and around Miami. Just, would you rather be paid in Bitcoin? And I think I had three that canceled the trip there and then. And I gave them an open dime. And think about how much trust that takes. They can't verify the open dime there. And they're happy.

We're still in contact. They offered a drive like any time. It's great. I mean, it just, it clicks because people are getting those first, second, and third points of contact, even just by virtue of mainstream media, fudding Bitcoin. They're coming into contact to it. It just, it's great. Will Uber drivers become the new global elite? from all of their orange-pilling sessions from driving bitcoiners around Miami. So last week I was invited to this big business conference in Scandinavia and the presenter after me was the director of the Norwegian oil fund,

the largest sovereign wealth fund on the world, 10 trillion coronerous, that's about a trillion dollars managed by a single fund. The guy before me was the director of the biggest bank in Scandinavia, managing all their saving products, managing also funds for ridiculous, amount. And just a year or two ago, it would have been unimaginable that a bitcoiner would be given an equal stage next to the manager of the sovereign wealth fund and the manager of the biggest bank. But yeah, no, one third of the whole conference was just Bitcoin. And that section

engaged people so much that they changed the whole program and set up a panel debate about Bitcoin at the end of the conference. And so, you know, things are really changing. Well, your value proposition there is that you are, managing director of your own sovereign wealth fund, but you can provide, you can have everyone be their own sovereign wealth fund. Yeah, I'm always saying to people in Scandinavia that, you know, we've done cradle to grave for 100 years now. So now let's do, you know, from slavery to sovereignty. That's the next path we need to build from slavery to sovereignty. I love that. That's fantastic. Well, any final thoughts here before we round of this topic and do a rotation?

if anybody has any last things to say to wrap up this kind of you know, Pleb-based the small kind of swell of sleeper Bitcoin action that's been going on. Just to piggyback off what Dale was talking about, I think it is pretty amazing how mainstream Bitcoin is now. Like even I feel like three, four years ago, most people had probably heard of Bitcoin.

But today I feel like almost, everyone has heard of Bitcoin. It's kind of like all publicity is good publicity long term for Bitcoin because eventually those people flip. It's pretty crazy how mainstream we are now. Yeah, I would say I was kind of curious like how viable if I just brought like, I grew up doing art and just brought like some sort of Bitcoin related product to the market. So I brought a few this year and I was astonished that they all did really well.

And I don't think that says anything about me. It's just more the demand for more Bitcoin products, even simple like Bitcoin shoes, Bitcoin this, Bitcoin that. Like it's a great way if you're like sitting at home a pleb stuck in a Fiat job. It's a great side hustle to supplement your income and really double time that stack. And it's fun. I find that to be the most like rewarding part of my day. It's just working on little side projects and Bitcoin related products to sell.

Yeah, 100%. Somebody wants to know if you orange-pilled the head of the wealth fund. So I did actually get to ask him, of course. I asked him straight up in front of an open stage. What financial instruments or mandates would be necessary for the sovereign wealth fund to allocate part of their portfolio to Bitcoin? And I was quite shocked by the answer, because not only did he dismiss Bitcoin as a possible allocation,

but he compared Bitcoin to NFT handbags. and then made the notion that it was so impossible for him to make a value proposition for an NFT handbag that it would therefore not be prudent for him to make a value proposition for Bitcoin. And, you know, I'm sitting there. My vein here is throbbing, trying to, like, I don't know, it's like not understanding the difference between a a Forex market and a property market, you know. That's basically what it is. It's like the difference between something you can exchange for anything

and something you have to find a particular buyer for. If you don't understand such as basic difference of markets, how can you manage such a fund, which makes me suspect that maybe he was being facetious, that maybe he did not genuinely actually believe this, that this is a simple way to dismiss the question that he knows, plays on the basic knowledge of the audience and does not require any follow up

that makes me look a little bit silly for even having asked. But I find a very important. hard to believe that a man in such position has not been forced to consider Bitcoin more seriously than that. Yeah. Huh. Interesting. I suppose we'll, uh, we'll see, uh, we'll see how his opinion changes over the years, I suppose. He'll be, he'll be confronted with it many more times than just that once. Bitcoin is brutal. Yeah. He will buy at a much higher price. Um, Awesome. All right. Well, let's round this one up. And Dale, we'll just keep it with you. I'm going to give you the floor and I will let you get on your little rant. What are you bullish about this week? What has you excited? Well, I'm always excited about what Shane was excited about. I'm always excited about PLEBs. So I wanted to narrow it down a little bit more and say, I'm really fucking super bullish on Norway.

You know, we're all paying attention to what's going on in the Central African Republic. We're all paying attention to El Salvador. And by now, we're sort of seeing a pattern of nations that we're all expecting, especially us who are like in this influence, environment, we're constantly haunting the next, chasing that next little story in the area that we expect adoption to happen. Meanwhile, because of PLEBs, because of the underground demand for liberty and societies that are so structured and static,

Scarnaby is emerging as a place, a birthplace for a beacon, for a lighthouse for Bitcoin. We have by now, I would argue, the highest amount of Bitcoin Maxis. No, not people interested in crypto, Bitcoin Maxis per capita. We have contacts in towards every major political faction of Norway. We have a point of sales growing across the nation.

We have the third biggest lightning hub in the world in a single nation of Norway and growing fast. And now we're finally launching this in English under Klebs. Dot City, which we aim to make a forcible form of Bitcoin community. based around the simple notion that people need to move from a state of slavery to a state of sovereignty, from fiat to Bitcoin, and that journey needs to be gamified. There needs to have objectives and it needs to have rewards for helping other people along on that journey. So that's what we're building right now.

And I'm super bullish about what's possible if people in the world realize that Norway has cheap green energy, a stable regulatory environment, a lot of safety, highly educated population. cold temperatures protect your hardware right there and we're connected to the world so the rabbit hole starts here that's right this is kongaika which is where you land if you go to klebsdot city as well right now you can just sign up for our email list because we're working out a lot of stuff in the background before we launch but we already launched our morning show bitcoin for breakfast first episode was out this week so I'm celebrating myself I guess a bit bullish on myself as well.

Losh, Bitcoin for breakfast, your new favorite Maxi morning show every Wednesday at 8.30. And all of that, of course, is based around the idea that I'm fucking bullish on clubs, always, every day. Don't stop.

I love that. I'm going to have to get on the mailing list here. And I'm actually, I'm feeling bullish on Norway too. For, I mean, also for your reason, but I've got a secondary reason. I'm going to be there next month.

because Alex Gladstein asked if I would come help MC the Bitcoin track for the Oslo Freedom Forum, which I'm very excited about. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. That's great cool. I'll see you there, by the way. We have a lot of good Bitcoiners coming.

There's a pretty good, as I'm discovering, I keep on seeing across my feet, oh, I'll be in Norway next month. I'm like, wait. What's going on there? So yeah, I guess there's a good convergence of Bitcoiners in Oslo coming up. But for those unfamiliar, this is basically it's with the Human Rights Foundation and they're putting on an event, they always do every single year. But because of Glass Scene himself, they've started to dedicate time to Bitcoin related content and Bitcoin as a humanitarian tool. And last year in October, they did one in Miami Beach.

And I helped a little bit with that one as well. Awesome speakers from around the globe. But there's an entire Bitcoin track. Like there's the keynote speakers around general humanitarian issues. But then there's a specific set of talks and a totally separate stage dedicated to just Bitcoin content and how it can be used as a humanitarian tool. So to see that happening in Norway and have everybody. coalescing on this single spot to Chad Bitcoin within Norway,

which is beautiful, by the way. I've been to, not to Oslo, but I've been to actually all the way up the coast. I've been to Bergen a handful of times. I've been to Flam, I believe it's called. Yes, very nice, Tom. I've been up, I've been all the way up to Nordcap. Well, you're very lucky. You missed out on Oslo, which is what I recommend for all tourists.

and you caught Bergen, which is definitely the best part of our country. Yeah. No, but I mean, Oslo Freedom Forum is just so cool, and it's so cool that Alex is organizing it in Oslo. And the fact that there is this convergence now, I don't know if these things interact,

the fact that in the last three years, Bitcoin has really exploded in Norway. We're light years ahead of Sweden and Denmark in the conversation, in the coherence of the community, and the content that's being produced in the adoption. You know, more than 10% of the population are active owners and hoddlers of Bitcoin.

Hey, here's a cool fact. The Minister of Climate in Norway, Minister of Climate went live on our channel and admitted that he owns Bitcoin and is a hodler. Okay? So that says something about where we are in the conversation. Anyways, Austin Freedom Forum. In sending cool that it's all pulling down into Norway at the same time.

Yeah, that's super awesome. Quick question. Have you been to guys, I rang her. How do you say? I have. And yes, it does look exactly like the poster that you imagine. That was the first place I ever went to when I worked on a cruise ship. So that was the first port that we went into. Damn.

Astounding. It was incredible. Yeah, that's an aesthetical hard on right there. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's insane. You guys are making me. I got to go to Norway, man. My only, the only thing I know, like all that I know about Norway is from, have you ever read Carl Uff, Canalscars? Yeah, yeah.

Very, very long series of books. It's all I know, very bizarre. And it's literally called Mind Cun. Yeah, yeah. It's also a great work of littered. That's so funny. Here we go. I'll, just so the plebs that are watching aren't left out.

That's what we're talking about right there. That's Skyranger. Yeah, it's pretty beautiful. It's reminiscent of home, too, because I live right near the Rocky Mountains, and we just don't have quite as much kind of beautiful fjords in terms of being able to, like, actually sail through. But, yeah, I love it there. I miss it already, so I'm excited to.

So close to this gathering, a few, and we do have a, well, I have a cabin, which we've been using for Bitcoin gatherings, you know, Hoddle-Nought, and also getting together out there to strategize the future of Scandinavia. So I'll extend that invitation right away, knowing that you will rarely be on this side of the Atlantic. But should you like to join us for a very based weekend in the mountains of Norway? I was speaking to a lot yesterday. And he said that there's some bit corners getting together, perhaps, and we might be able to have an afternoon. Yeah.

So perhaps, yeah, I would love to step. damn bullish on Norway do you guys like either Alex or Mitch do you have any any questions for Dale regarding any further stuff going on in in Norway or in regards to Bitcoin and anything that you wanted to tag on there or yeah I'm wondering I don't know a whole lot about Norway either do you think

there's like any reasons behind why there are so many like Bitcoin maxis per capita and it's like so much stronger than the the surrounding nations? It's a really good question because, you know, in some ways, the development of Bitcoin and Scandinavia was very, it was the same in all the countries. You know, people did not see the need for Bitcoin except for speculation because we have high trust in government, well-functioning money, a solid banking system.

It's hard for people to see beyond the share trading case for Bitcoin. And then something happened somewhere around two years ago where, I think hot or not certainly helped a lot to generate a very based conversation around the conflict with Craig Stephen Wright and all that. I'm not going to get into that whole story. And then we launched a kingdom. And the kingdom, which is now turned into PLEB city, has basically done exactly what we now want to do internationally. We gamified the path from being a shit corner to being a bit corner. And it converted a lot of people who were crypto people into Bitcoin people.

So now we have an army of cyber hornets that are working, you know, and they come from all walks of life, right? Some people are in politics. Some people are regular nerds. Some people are business leaders, lawyers, whatever. But yeah, I also think there must be something deep in the culture. Because, I mean, normally has something particular about how it's at the periphery of the world. At the same time, it is obviously very financially connected and wealthy and developed.

so on. And that generates a certain sort of ability to ignore the big forces that are at play in the world at all times. So people have this very local mindset of Norway being its own sandbox that you can design and play around with. I think that gives us a certain agility. Even if we are still a very static Scandinavian society and rigid and whatever, it gives us a certain agility on a local level that I don't think you'll find in Sweden and Denmark. If I'm looking for an explanation, like why did it kick off here and not in our neighboring countries? I think this might be the heart of it. Dale,

what is your primary platform for interacting with these plebs? Is it YouTube? Discord. So YouTube is the front, right? That's where we have all our content. And it's actually a series of podcasts

and different hosts. I'm just the main host of the biggest show. But Discord is where we organize. And 4,000 members, 4,000 active members we preen every week. So nobody gets to stick around if they don't contribute.

Wow, I'm going to have to find a link to that. Yeah, it's actually, if I can share a screen, can I? Yeah, if you do, then it'll just come up as a notification for me. Let's see if it works. You got you. There you go. So yeah, if you want to check out the Discord, it's quite, we have an English channel there, of course. This particular one is in the Wheatim, but there's an English channel in the Discord.

and it's just discord.g.com or dot g.g slash kongeriket. That's awesome. Fun fact about kongeriket, it means the kingdom in Norwegian, but you'll also notice that it literally spells out kong eric. So that means king eric. I did not realize this until two months after I had founded the company. And to this day, I'm still working to recover my reputation that people don't think that I'm walking around calling myself King Eric.

But that is Konganyika. That's so cool. Yeah, there's, it slips your mind how many Norwegian bitcoins there are. But again, like, Hodlonaut always comes to mind in Bitcoin Katia. And shout out to them again for Citadel 21. I guess I can, spoiler alert, Citadel 21. I was just chatting with them. They're going to be sponsoring some of my short form content.

So I made this image for them, me being very excited with all these issues. I'm sitting here on the piano rack. I don't know if you can see it on my screen. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, no, I do love reading the stuff because it's just such a unique kind of like gathering of just like pleb material. material. And it's exciting alongside my Bitcoin magazines that are sitting there to get,

you know, some tangible Bitcoin goodies in the mail every now and again. So I do love it. And showed up to them for making something awesome for the plebs by the plebs. So yeah. Any final thoughts other than just being bullish on Norway and and wanting to go there? I think we can wrap that one and continue on. Dude, I'm very excited to see you there, though, and very excited to see everybody else in Norway. It'll be a good time. And who knows, maybe it will become yet another Bitcoin Mecca.

We'll see. We are turning it into a Bitcoin Mecca, whether it wants to or not. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, let's do our final rotation then. we're going to jump to Mitch and I'm going to let you have your little rant, man. Let us know what are you bullish about this week?

So I am super bullish on KC Bitcoinsers, but specifically an event that we had last weekend. We did a Bitcoin block party and it came about this guy named Chris who started coming to our meetups a few months ago and he is big into like the local music scene, local art scene, and he wanted to find a way to merge.

that with Bitcoin. And so he had this idea. He kind of saw on Twitter, like I think Portland and Austin have done a Bitcoin block party as well. So he saw this and was like, hey, we should do this. And I'm like, it's a great idea. But I have absolutely no freaking clue how to put anything like that together. That's way out of my wheelhouse. And like two or three weeks later, Chris gives an update at the meetup and he's basically got this entire thing planned on his own. He's orange pill. he's like orange pilling the porta potty provider like he's just going all out and he's got an outdoor space reserved a date scheduled and we're good to go and so we raise i think three or four million sats from the members of the meetup group to help like fund it all in bitcoin and so last weekend on

sunday we had like an all-day event with vendors with live music chris is in one of the bands that perform and some other bands there and we had so he orange-pilled a lot of local Mexican restaurant. And so you were able to buy burritos, tacos, margs, beer, all in Bitcoin. So we set up the vendor with a way to accept it. And they had a separate window where they would only accept Bitcoin. And that was for us. So it was an awesome event. I highly recommend any other cities out there with a strong Bitcoin contingency to try something similar. Yeah. And then at the end, we were getting feedback from the restaurant owner to see. see how it went. Like, if we do it again next year or next, like in the fall, are there things

that we could do differently to make it smoother on you? And his first question was, how do I buy more Bitcoin? So he was super into it. And so, yeah, that was a ton of fun. And I'm super bullish on that and local economies, which we already kind of touched on. But yeah, that's awesome. So you had live music vendors kind of had the gamut. It's funny because it sounds reminiscent of my first foray into Bitcoin a little bit. I didn't quite know how to mash up my kind of history of being in and around the arts and performance and everything like that. And kind of juxtapose that against a Bitcoin backdrop. So I tried a handful of things.

one of them being an event called the Bitcoin sessions playing on like VH1 sessions like live music kind of thing. Thus the current name. But, you know, it was basically just a bunch of, you know, local artists, performance artists that were doing music shows. And then in between there was Bitcoin education. There's a Bitcoin ATM in the room. With every ticket, you got a little bit of Bitcoin.

and then on the walls were images of the individual performing artists and overlaid with that was a QR code so you could tip any of the performers with the Bitcoin you got from your ticket. Yeah. So maybe there's maybe there's some tidbits in there that you can toss to that dude and maybe you'll get tipping the individual performers as well in the future. Yeah, for sure. That'd be awesome. He had so he was DJing and Chris, the guy who comes.

kind of helped organize the whole thing. And he had a QR code where you could send whatever amount of Bitcoin you wanted to and then you could request a song if you could like prove that you're the one to send it. So that was a cool idea you had to. That's that's super awesome. I love that. What was the organization of that like? Was there a was it kind of like last minute, oh, this is happening? Let's let's do it or you know what was your takeaway from all that? It was a bit of both. We'd definitely be more prepared if we'd like for the next one. So Chris like reserved the event space pretty far in advance. We had a date locked in pretty far in advance. So like the big really important things we had set in stone for a while.

But everything else was like, oh shit, it's a week before the event. Like we have to find tents. We have to find like all this stuff. We have to print posters and that kind of thing. And we have to figure out, you know, if somebody shows up to this block. party and they don't have Bitcoin, but they have to pay in Bitcoin. How do we get them Bitcoin? So we had some problems like that to solve. But yeah, it was a bit of a scramble at the end for sure. That's cool.

I really love seeing kind of those. I mean, even down at the conference in Miami, just being able to actively use Bitcoin and be in a community of people where you can just interact with each other on that level and not have too many hurdles. It's, you know, it's refreshing as a Bitcoin of being able to do that easily.

What, in terms of what the merchants were using, did they just have their own wallets? Like, how was that working? So there was one merchant who comes to our meetup and they have their own podcast on pod. They're like one of the biggest podcasting 2.0 podcasts out there actually.

So he's super well versed in Bitcoin and Lightning. So they were accepting lightning on their own node. So super based vendor. And the other ones, we just help set up on Moonwallet. Because it's one of the easiest flows. It's on chain and lightning. So we just set them up with Moonwallet, like an hour before the event. We kind of did a tutorial on how to, you know, choose an amount for your invoice, that kind of thing.

And then make sure to like walk them through how to back it up. Yeah. That's super cool. Yeah, it's interesting onboarding new users and in particular merchants and trying to figure out those flows for them. You know, there's especially something like that where it's just like, okay, you're setting up a little shop and you're just there. It doesn't really matter if you're just, you know, quick, whatever. And it's just kind of peer to peer. And I mean, I'm sure everybody's reporting all of these.

Oh, totally. I have no doubt. Yeah. But like there are easy like merchants, you know, like Bree's wallet has a built-in point of sale on it. So there are definitely things out there where you can can do these things easily, which is, which is awesome. You know, it's, and I mean, it's unique to, who's the one that just seemed to be everywhere in my, IBEX, IBEX, Mercado. Yeah, they're blowing up. Yeah, they just blew up out of nowhere.

and one of my favorite things was to your point about kind of Bitcoiners congregating and being able to transact back and forth. When I was at the Freedom Forum in Miami Beach last October, there were a bunch of people hanging out and tweeting and there's a dude that tweeted out and said, hey, I'm, you know, I run a restaurant in town here, Taco place called Tequizas. And so I responded and I was like, oh, that sounds awesome. Maybe I'll gather up some some Bitcoiners and we'll swing by for dinner. And so we ended up, I think it was like me, Guy Swan, Stefan Lavera and like a ton of other.

There's like 12, 15 of us or something. And we all kind of just went down to this place. The guy was accepting Bitcoin to pay. But then in the end, we all came and he was like, I'm just happy to have you guys here. So he loaded us up with free tacos all night, like just a stupid amount of tacos. I couldn't believe. Like, I mean, don't get me wrong. We tipped the shit out of the staff.

But, but yeah, just like load us up with tacos. This time around being in Miami, I went, my Airbnb, unbeknownst to me, ended up being the balcony above Tequises. But then I'd go in there and literally every day I went in there, it was filled with Bitcoiners. And they'd had Ivex Mercado as their way of accepting lightning and everything. And it was so cool to see, you know, Bitcoiners be like, oh, this is somebody who's themselves awesome. John is an incredible dude, but offers something that's amazing, like the tacos that were incredible.

And people just descended upon it and supported a local business that was on the same wavelength as them. And you see that time and again, if, you know, Bitcoiners being on. entrepreneurial and offering something that is, is Bitcoiners deem as worthy of their sats, there's nothing more bullish than that because that, that to me, points to down the road where we're on a Bitcoin standard, where it forces, it forces individuals that are offering goods or services to up the quality of what they're offering in order to convince people to be separated from their sats. and that's a world I'd like to live in.

I mean, that's how Ibex Mercado also blew up in the first place. They offered a really, really brilliant point of sales solution for merchants in El Salvador when they legalized Bitcoin. And, you know, that sold the real pressure point, a real pain point for a lot of people interacting with Bitcoin. And all the places that made that available on day one, like I went there twice last year. I probably left half my fucking fortune down there.

Yeah. You put out the light and darkness and the bitternus will come. Yeah. It's also interesting. I don't know. Do you guys feel a greater kind of freedom to spend your stats as the price excitement wanes? Or how does that work for you? I'm a pretty like cuddl only kind of guy.

But in Miami, I was, I really enjoyed spending Bitcoin, man. It was just great to actually trade value for value freely with no third party. Yeah. A bit for a couple of years of being very much like I wanted to just stack and not. spend anything. But over the last year or two, I've really come into this sense of Bitcoin has to be a world you really do live in. And the more I'm also moving into the Bitcoin standard on a permanent basis in every facet of my life, the less feasible. It actually becomes to not spend Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah, I agree for sure. Yeah. I mean, like if you, I love spending

Bitcoin, partially because it's like a novelty, at least where I'm at, there's not many places where you can. So going to Miami where you can use it all the time. I think it's just really cool. And I like to do that. And I feel like the whole like don't spend your Bitcoin thing is a little bit overrated because you can just spend and replace. So you spend your Bitcoin and then you buy it back immediately. And then your stack is the same size. So you're recommending we should sell high and buy low. I'm just saying buy back instantly and you're good. You have no price. Yeah, I, Mitch, I'm actually from Iowa pretty close to Kansas City. And geographically, it's about the same, I would say.

So if you guys ever expand that way, let me know. I know a ton of Midwesterners who could definitely use the education and the camaraderie that Bitcoin brings, you know. Yeah, I know the like California and Arizona meetups have morphed into like the Arizona and the California Bitcoin network. So it would be cool to have like a Midwest Bitcoin network someday. 100%. I don't know if there's too offensive to say, but as a European, the sentence, a midwesterner, I know a midwesterner that could use some education,

has taken on a completely different meaning since Bitcoin. Awesome. I was going to tag on to the spending Bitcoin thing as well, and what Dale is saying in regards to living more and more on a Bitcoin standard. Like I've definitely gone down that road to the point where, I'm so minimally exposed to Fiat and the only instances where I am are where there's just quite literally no other option because like as I work I like I send out invoices and accept Bitcoin like that's all I do um the only uh exceptions would be you know there's there's

a small amount of like YouTube revenue itself is is pitiful so like it's it's a small percentage, but in the way that they do it, it goes to a bank again. So I do get some fiat, but like in the end, I'm so minimally exposed to fiat that it necessitates that I'm living on Bitcoin. So I can pay my bills on Bitcoin. I, you know, use something like bit refill to grab gift cards when I need them. You know, like there's there's all of these different solutions of how to spend your Bitcoin. And in the end, like if you still have Fiat in a way, your somewhat short Bitcoin, right?

The Fiat exposure that you have is Bitcoin is the opportunity of cost of potentially having it's even more pernicious than that. And it's actually quite a dark and perverse thing because everything that touches Fiat gets worse. and we as Bitcoiners know this everything that touches Fiat gets worse. You take this with a product, it gets lower quality, higher cost, you know?

Why wouldn't it do the same to you as a person? And you can really feel it, the more you start to clean up, almost like from a drug habits, the more you start to remove Fiat from your life. Even when you have that little line of Coke at once a month, that one little YouTube revenue in Fiat. What are you saying, Matt? I agree with you, like, when I hold the,

Fiat, which I usually have less than $100 of Fiat to my name, and it's wonderfully liberating because I don't spend money on bullshit. Like there's no high time preferences. I don't need not buying clothes, but once a year. Like things like that, it's great. You really start to kind of form a plan and have like a singleness of purpose when you're only holding Bitcoin and you've resolved not to really sell. it. But then, you know, you do get in with not holding fiat and living still kind of in a pretty

fiat denominator world, you do have to sell now and then. But there's solutions that are out there, man. There's, you know, Bitcoin as collateral solutions are coming. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, there's more and more options as time goes on. Again, like in in the US, you know, you've got you got strike and things like that where you're going to have you and do they already have the physical cards that you can use yet or or no i'm not sure i don't have the card if they do have it i'm not sure yeah there's food delivery and in the u.s take bitcoin in germany all the food delivery services take bitcoin so there's no way really yeah fedora and if rando and everything like this they all accept bitcoin over lightning the thing is the do they deliver

food though none of the food delivery services here deliver food they deliver like a plate of seed oil you can't get just like a steak i'm sorry i can't fix the entire value chain of u.s food production although bitcoin will eventually over time yeah that's too funny yeah that is a key step though right I mean, the moment that I started to be able to eat on Bitcoin, suddenly there were so many more times where I just didn't have to convert a little amount to have some Fiat available to my card. It takes away a lot of that little pressure point, just the food. Why do you still have Fiat?

Because I don't like starvation. That's a good point. I mean, I have to look around. I don't know. My assumption is no, but maybe there is someone delivering for Bitcoin around here. I don't know. There's some of the like online ordering platform. have Bitcoin built in.

I can't remember if it's MenuFi or one of the bigger ones that I've seen. There's a Thai restaurant by me where you can order it for takeout, but I don't think they do delivery. There's also things like like Moon,

pay with Moon or whatever. You can create like Visa cards and stuff like that digitally. There's a few others that I've been that I've been seeing around where you know, you get the plug-ins for your browser and you can effectively just pay with Bitcoin. So again, there's a, there's a ton more options. And again, like, you know,

bit refill is is gradually rolling out the bill payments platform so that you can just pay your bills directly and they'll take care of it for you. So, you know, there's a lot of, in the absence of these vendors just accepting directly, there's a lot of stopgap measures that are being built out. And I think what you'll see is over time these these kind of like jumping through hoops, those types of companies while offering awesome services. Eventually, if they're successful, they become obsolete, right? Like that's kind of the whole point to be there while they're needed until they're no longer needed. It's the same as a regular exchange, right?

like exchanges exist because people have dollars and are willing to continue to have dollars and will only put some of their dollars into Bitcoin. When literally every person holding dollars wants to convert their dollars to Bitcoin, that's when you'll no longer be able to. So it's just kind of like the countdown clock is on. So kudos to these companies for offering these services. but eventually the merchants themselves will be like, well, I just, I don't want dollars anymore, so I'll just directly accept the Bitcoin myself.

I feel like a lot of these services right now are like technology in the 90s. It's like pre-smart phones. So there's all these things that we have started to realize that you can put together into one device, but it's got the weirdest conservation, like a flashlight and a knife for something like, and we're just putting together all these little things that comes from the past and we know we can put it together. There's going to be a time in the future where you've got the Google workspace. of Bitcoin or whatever. But yeah,

it's an exciting time to be alive because a lot of these services put together stuff you'll never see again. Yeah, absolutely. Well, gentlemen, what I think I'd like to do now is, I'm going to start wrapping up, but I'll do a round of final thoughts

across the entire episode. So any final things that you wanted to toss out there, whatever it may be. But also, I'm going to put a little challenge to each of you, and that is to recommend, recommend a piece of content or something that has really assisted you in your Bitcoin journey, whether it be a book, a video, a podcast, an article, just something that you have enjoyed at some point in your Bitcoin journey that you'd like to share with other people and

have them take a look at. And it can really be anything. So I'm going to, I don't have been front of me but um i guess my final thought first of all thank you all for coming on i really appreciate your time and everything uh i would like to say that it was an honor and a privilege to have a uh bitcoin magazine spam my feed with chicken oh no that wasn't me so so you know i feel like i've made it when that that happens and i think uh cue was in there too uh seems i think i think he was calling Alex Brian Armstrong or something and asked if you were a call me. So that was a friend. I will absolutely find a solution to pay the chicken or feed the chickens via lightning.

You guys can bid on which one to butcher or something. I'll make a solution. Bid on who to keep feeding. Yeah. I love it. I do appreciate when people pop in. I will say that you know, these shows are fun

not only because of the guests, but because of the people that come in and partake in the chat. You guys are as much a part of the show as everybody. And I will say thank you to the newbies that joined in from across the pond. I enjoyed having a handful of Norwegians in the room.

And hopefully I will see some of you in Oslo. And then my recommend for reading, I would say check your financial privilege by Alex Gladstein, the book. I do have a copy of it here. I'm making my way through it, and so far it's absolute fire.

And so I figured since we had been talking about Norway and the Oslo Freedom Forum, that it was only fair to mention that solid entry by Alex Gladstein. So check that out. It's called Check Your Finders. financial privilege by Alex Gladstein. And you can grab it on Amazon right now, I think.

And or the Bitcoin magazine store maybe is a better option. Yeah, you can get 10% off. I think the promo code is FOMO. Oh, sweet. Yeah, if you want to buy it in the store. Pay in Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

Awesome. Well, let's do, Alex, let's toss it to you. Any final thoughts from the day and any recommendations for people to check out? I'm bullish on you guys. It's great to meet you, Dale, Mitch. We got to keep in touch. This has been great. I would obviously recommend checking out Bitcoin magazine.

Great for news, culture, content. But I had the privilege of editing this book, and I think it needs to be read. I think it's a very important book, great follow-up to the Bitcoin standard. But I think the reason I'm recommending that today is because it covers a lot of what we talked about, the problems with the fiat world, the problems that arise out of central planning, how we can wake ourselves up and get from, as Dale said, from slavery to sovereignty. So check out the Fiat standard by Safedin Amos. Go buy, I think it's safedine.com.

Go buy yourself a copy. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Down to you, Dale. Final thoughts and any recommendations? Well, I feel like I've been pushing Norway so hard this episode that I'm afraid to repeat it. But really do get your eyes open.

follow a lot of the good Norwegians. We're going to have a space on Sunday at 9.30. It's part of the BTC Global Initiative where they're going around the world, following all these different communities. And the time has come from Norway. I'm going to be co-hosting it with Hodlenaut. So that's going to be 9.30 Central European time.

So I guess that's going to be in the afternoon for you guys over on the old, over on the new continent. I did get better retweet. So anyway. Yeah, it looks like it's getting hot. So I hope that's an indication of why you should be paying attention to what's going up under the northern lightning. See what I did there?

For content, I really want to recommend, and this is, I got to say, I recommend books every month, you know, and I run a book club on Bitcoin or whatever. But this is one book that really, really stands out to me. And even though it didn't help me that much in my journey, because I was already so far along, I think it's going to make a huge difference in this decade to a lot of people, and that is Bitcoin is Venice, Alan Farrington, Sasha Myers, and also a foreword by Alice Gladstone, by the way, if I'm not completely mistaken. And it's, I would argue, the first serious economic textbook on Bitcoin fit for this decade

and for this century. And I'm really excited with the way it engages with the ideas and the problems that were ahead It's heavy, it's dense. So I recommend it for people who like it that way, who like it rough. But it's definitely worth, it's worth putting yourself through that. You won't get much more value per line anywhere else right now. Awesome. I love it.

Mitch, you're up. Final thoughts and recommendations. Yeah, it's funny. I actually have a tab open on my phone on the Bitcoin MagSore, I think, to buy Bitcoin is Venice right now. so I'm about to buy that. I'm pumped for it. Yeah, final thoughts. If you're ever anywhere near Kansas City, definitely come by a meetup.

Any of you guys, if you're ever around, you can speak, do whatever. You know, you can have the stage and we'll go drink beers. Other than that content, I would say going back to Alan Farrington, his recent article, I finance the current thing is such a stellar takedown of ESG. I love everything he writes, but that one really hit home for me. So I loved that. And I've also been consuming all of the open source stage content from the Miami conference, which is on the Citadel Dispatch Feed and BitcoinTV, I believe.com.

It's a lot of content, but I just like go on a walk and listen to it. some of it's too technical for me a little bit over my head, but that's, that's kind of how I learned. So yeah, that's, and I mean, for anybody that, that, that is timid about that kind of stuff, if you insert yourself into that type of content and those types of conversations, uh, over enough time, then you start to pick up things just through osmosis, right? Like, you start to understand. Yeah. Can I, can I make a recommendation based off that? Just one more.

Uh, especially with all this, uh, BIP 119 stuff going on. Um, I've been on a, renewed Tales from the Crypt kicked. I think this is an excellent podcast you should check out with Matt Odell and I'm trying to blank. Marty, Marty. Yeah, yeah, this is a great podcast, especially for getting into discussions,

things that are over your head. You guys just did a fantastic podcast that really helped me get a better understanding of Jeremy Rubin's proposal and what's going on there. So thank you for that. What was the time? know if there's a title to the episode, but you had Aaron Van Weirond.

Aaron Bud Beardham and Pete Rizzo. Yeah. And that was a great talk. So, yeah, thank you guys for putting that out. Q was on there and asking some good, low-level questions that I needed answered. So it was great. Excellent. Awesome.

Yeah. And anybody listening, go check it out. That one's just on the Bitcoin magazine. Is it on the YouTube? well or is it on the yeah yeah it's on our youtube uh it'll be under probably bip 119 in the title it'll be under the recent live stream so that was yeah maybe a day or two ago but yeah might have been yesterday yeah it was it was solid and anybody who's kind of confused as to what the hell is going on um i neglected to touch on it in the news uh video yesterday because i just wasn't privy to exactly what was happening

and i didn't want to uh butcher it but uh yeah that was a nice little breakdown at least a high level overview of kind of what's happening there. So appreciated that. And amateur investors said, podcast episode is the BIP-119 controversy with Pete Rizzo and Aaron Van Wierdom. So yeah, check that out. It was awesome. It was a nice, just like, compact, hour-long listen that gives an overview of why it's

controversial. So awesome. Well, gentlemen, again, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. This was a great chat. Always love chatting with all of you guys. And of course, all of you are welcome back anytime. So, yeah, have a great weekend to all of you.

Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us. Great to meet you guys. Cheers. Yeah, likewise. Cheers, guys. I'll cut your audio video now.

Again, everybody that's watching, thank you so much for being here. I really do appreciate it. Friday is always best time of the week. I get to just chill out, hang out with Bitcoiners, chat, have you guys come and, you know, have Bitcoin magazine in the troll box. You can't beat that. So, again, I very much appreciate all of your time. As always, like, subscribe, share, all those things help a ton.

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