BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? American Hodl, MADEX, & Harry Suddock's Surprising Bullish Insights! ep352

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/americanhodl8 https://twitter.com/SPACEBULL https://twitter.com/harry_sudock 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Nunchuk Wallet and their Honey Badger plan is a best in class assisted mutisig setup with built-in inheritance planning and NO KYC. Check them out today! https://nunchuk.io/ Start9 is your Bitcoin & lightning node, and full personal server - enabling you to take back control from the gatekeepers of your money and data! Grab Server Lite,One or Pro today and become truly self-sovereign! https://start9.com/   Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions  HodlHodl is a NON-CUSTODIAL, NON-KYC solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION Free video tutorials not enough? Need some extra hand-holding when mastering self-custody, multisig, coinjoin, running a node, or other skills? Book me for a private session on my website! https://www.btcsessions.ca/ Been watching the show for a while? Like what you see? Help me cover my video costs by sending some sats over on my Geyser Fund page! https://geyser.fund/project/btcsessions

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to this show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? Killer panel today. Very excited about this one. Some fine gentlemen. And 30, no, sorry, 66% of them are here. So we'll see how it goes. One of our gentlemen is making his way in.

Either way, it's going to be a good time. And we might even have a special guest partway through the show. We'll see. Nonetheless, hope you're all having a good week. And I hope some of you were able to tune in. We just had the Bitcoin rodeo here in Calgary. And we managed to live stream it to Nostra. I think first Bitcoin conference to live stream to Nostr.

So that was a hell of a time. Anyways, of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live.

I'll write it and we'll do it live. thing sucks if you have not already like subscribe share all those things they help a ton getting this content in front of more eyeballs i am ben with the btc sessions this is your daily session before we bring in our panelists let's take a quick look at where we are in the market right now this is time chain calendar dot com we're sitting at 30,303 334 dollars per coin a single single US dollar will pick you up.

3,297 sats. In terms of fees, it seems that the allure of JPEGs has not held up. 15 sats per byte next block, even if you're willing to wait a bit, eight sats per byte. We've been seeing those single digits. I think I saw it down at four or five sats per byte in the past couple days here. And the mempool isn't as backed up as it has been 465 megabytes sitting there. And only purging stuff sub one.

that per bite, not bad. And in terms of Bitcoin mind, 19.42 million of them. That is 92.49%. Shout out to sponsor of the show, hoddlehottle.com. If you're stacking stats and you've got a few priorities in mind like peer-to-peer trading, instant self-custody, no K-YC, head over there. Hottlehottle.com, easy. You sign up with nothing more than the email address.

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Tap signer, block clock, open dimes, sats cards. And coming pretty soon. Cold card Q1 looks insane. I've got mine reserved. If you'd like to reserve one or grab anything else that I mentioned, head to coin kite.com. Use code BTC sessions for 5% off, everything there. If you're looking to go beyond single-sig and you want to dive into multi-sig, perhaps assisted multi-sick, check out Nunchuk.

The wallet by itself, again, just free to download and use however you see fit is awesome. But if you want that assisted multi-sig setup where they hold one key and you hold the rest of the quorum, I highly recommend you check it out. Super easy to set up. Just do it all on your mobile phone. It works with tap signers, cold card, a whole bunch of other hardware options. It also has baked in inheritance planning and non-KYC as well. Kind of sets it apart from other options out there. You don't need to give up any personal information to set it up and have it work.

So finally, and I want to mention this one because I'm very excited. Something just arrived from me, but shout it to Start 9. These guys are killing it. I love all of their devices that they're pumping out. They've got basically you can run your Bitcoin stack from like entry level, like super cheap. the way up to ProStar, which, holy shit, it just arrived. I've got a pro, or I guess they're calling it a peer now, but this thing is an absolute beast.

I can't wait to get it set up. But yeah, you can run Bitcoin Core, your Lightning Node, Mempool, DustSpace, join Market, all your data, files, photos, passwords, all that kind of stuff, nostril relays. And they're awesome. So check them out. And with that, I'm going to shut up. I'm going to get my guys in here.

They're all here. So welcome to the show, Mr. Hoddle. Mr. Suttick and a man of the woods himself, literally in a hot tub. His mate ex. This is exactly what I was hoping for when you were saying. You were getting set up. So I don't know. I don't know what else I expected, really.

So gentlemen, thank you for being here. I appreciate it. This is going to be a hell of a rip. Let's just do a quick round of who are you and what do you do before we get into it. So Hoddle, we'll start with you. give yourself an intro man dude does madex have a viking helmet behind him because that's fucking amazing first of all just have to say uh i'm i'm american hoddle i'm just a random dude who has some bitcoin i'm not special you're not special none of us are special only bitcoin special

so that's who i am that i mean the viking helmet is special too so Harry, it's good to see you. First time on the show. Can you give yourself an intro? Yeah, thanks for having me, brother. Harry Sudak, chief strategy officer at Grid, we mine Bitcoin and partner at Bitcoin Park in the great city of Nashville

in the great state of Tennessee. Well, I'm glad to have you, man. We met for the first time earlier this year, and you were super gracious and saying that you'd come on the show So I'm glad we made it happen. Madex, I literally just saw you. But last time I saw you, you weren't with Viking helmet and hot tub. So I'm a little jealous here.

But good to see you, man. Let everybody know who you are. What you do? I'm Madex. I'm the artist. And I'm the creative director at Bull Bitcoin. And yeah, I created the Bull Bitcoin brand. and I onboard every single Canadian individual I encounter to Bull Bitcoin.

And all you need is a couple hours using our service to understand why we already are, but most people don't know, the greatest Bitcoin company in the world. And for a long time, we're the greatest in Canada, but now we're working on expansion, which I'm very excited about. And you can expect that over the next year. Damn. And I can vote. Yes, Bull Bitcoin is fucking.

awesome and I use it on the regular because I'm living on Bitcoin and it's an absolute God send to be able to pay all my bills and do all that shit in a single location. So kudos to you guys for that and hats off to Francis for building it. Awesome. All right. Well, let's get this thing rolling. For those watching that are unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish? Really simple concept.

We're all coming with a reason, but in some cases many. but you've got to pick one. We're coming with reasons why we're excited, why we're bullish, and it can really be anything, a life experience, something that we stumbled across, a piece of news,

a book, whatever it may be, and it's our chance to kind of rant on what's top of mind. So the flow of the show is we're going to start with somebody, they're going to give a reason why they're bullish, and that's their chance to rant and talk about it. Number two,

altogether, Questions, comments, whatever rabbit holes we go down. And number three, finally, we're going to rotate until each of us has had a turn. So reason, riff, rotate, really simple. I'll give you guys forewarning. Try not to blow your load early. Keep your reason to the moment when I say, why are you bullish? I've had a few guests go, oh, I thought I already went.

So anyways, besides that, we're going to dive into it. Also, during the show, just so you know, we will have, if I bring it up here, We're going to have the chat overlay off to the side. There has been a bunch of chat messages already, but now you're going to start seeing them pop up on the side. So people that are watching live, keep those comments coming through, and we'll start to see them populate in just a second here.

But let's get rolling. I'm going to get us started today with my reason for being bullish and had to do with just the other night. I went and grabbed a drink with a few. friends here in Calgary. And we were just over and yeah, having a beverage. A couple of the people I'd never met before, but there were Bitcoiners as well and a longtime friend of mine.

And I'm not typically the person to force Bitcoin upon a person I've never met. Like I'm not the person that comes up to somebody and is like, hey, have you heard of Bitcoin? Let me get you started with that right away. but a couple of people at the table were and I was like okay whatever and I just kind of let them do their thing but then it kind of you know it was the the waitress that we had at this place um it it kind of fell to me as to like all right now get her to do things and get get her to uh get a wallet and I kind of recognized that I had T minus you know 10 to 30 seconds to do this. And I was trying to think of the thing that would most get her to take a singular

step and then progress down her learning her learning curve after that. And so typically when I'm in a one-on-one where I have like a couple of minutes or like five minutes or something, I'll get right now I'll get somebody to the down on a Phoenix wallet because it's non-custodial. You can literally hit start and then hit receive and then you the first, transaction, you get sets up like an actual lightning channel to you and you have custody of it and you can do all that cool stuff. I didn't have that kind of time. So, you know, unfortunately, I went the wallet of Satoshi route, which also, I will say is fucking fine if that's like the first thing you do and then you continue to learn, right? But I got her set up really quick.

She hit receive. I took a picture of her screen and then I sent her. I tweeted out like, hey, this is Rachel. She's learning about Bitcoin Center, you know, the Joe Hall tactic. And I've got to say, it worked swimmingly. I'm just looking, I'm quickly looking at the message here. Last I heard as of yesterday morning, yesterday morning, I think. She had like 170 US dollars worth of like random, random stats that came in. And like on Twitter, I saw like just sent a dollar from El Salvador and like all these little comments.

And she would have been seeing some of the comments in there because you can attach notes to it. And so I guess in retrospect, like looking back at it, obviously Wallet of Sadoci is not like my first choice for wallet. I think everybody kind of knows that. But it does the trick in a pinch. But when people were asking, well, why do you suggest? that one. It was a timing issue of getting somebody to try something really, really quick. And it was also the way it functions. And what I mean when I say that is I was able to take a picture of the screen and it had a lightning address there and a reusable payment code, which currently is not a

thing that you can get in a non-custodial wallet. But it is a thing that's very close to being available in a few wallets, if I'm not mistaken. And so the reason I'm bullish is because the tools for onboarding are obviously first becoming easy because, you know, there's shortcuts like Wall of Satoshi, but soon they will be easy and non-custodial. And so like, you know, I got obviously it's Twitter. I got some shit like, oh, you're the worst person ever. you suggested a custodial solution for the two seconds.

It's like making fun of somebody for learning their alphabet. Yeah, let me just get you to go buy some computer parts from Radio Shack and set up a node. I know you're trying to serve us at the restaurant table, but. Yeah, she literally had to run to the back room to download the app so she didn't get in trouble for having her phone out on her shift. So, like, so, you know, again, you pick your battles. But like, again, I think we're at the cusp of having things be both easy to onboard and non-custodial simultaneously. And that's pretty exciting to me. I really like that because then it is the easy option to be like, yeah, download this and hit receive and then go do a backup later.

But Maynex, you hit the nail on the head. Some of the comments were like, you know, oh, I'm so disappointed in you for recommending. miss or whatever. And like, I get it. It's the internet. Shit happens. But at the same time, other comments were as effectively that. I mean, like, what? You didn't like set up a note on the spot and establish liquidity. And then like, you know, so I think other people got it. And what I'll say is it's it's kind of silly to make fun of teaching somebody the alphabet. And, saying why haven't they read human action yet? Right?

Like it's it's kind of ridiculous to be like this is you're you're zooming in on a singular point of somebody's learning trajectory. And as Bitcoiners always say with the price, zoom out, I'm going to say the same thing with education. Zoom the fuck out. Guys like let's be real. We all fucking suck at teaching people stuff and we need to get better. And so you need to recognize that as people learn everybody like the deep.

the default right now for people is their first experience with Bitcoin is custodial, but also KYC. And what I mean is most people get on an exchange, give up all of their information, and then have it sit custodially there. This was half of that and easy to move off. So no KYC. So again, like zoom out. If what you do get somebody to take step number one and it's very easy for them to take step number two, which I believe is the. case in this instance, then fantastic. If what you do gets them to turn around and walk out the door, then you've kind of not at all had the effect that you intended. So I'm bullish because

I think tools are getting easier. I also think that some people are recognizing that an educational trajectory can start in many different places. And it doesn't matter the starting point, but it matters the end point. And yeah, so that's where I'm at. So I'm going to get your guys thoughts in and around this. Anybody who wants to hop in, go ahead. No, listen, man, fucking anybody who's sending Ben a mean tweet because he got the waitress on what the fuck is wrong with you? I mean, like, dude, listen, we as Bitcoiners have a problem. The problem is that most of us are autistic. And when you're autistic, uh, you always let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. Getting, the girl, you know, who's serving you food to be on Walton of Satoshi and receiving sats from

all over the world is a fucking cool moment for her. And it's the beginning of her journey. It's not the end of her journey, right? And also, I think that we've all forgotten that cryptographic, like, secret keeping, you know, self-custody is a really complex skill set that we've all honed over years and years and years. And you have to take yourself back to the very beginning when you were a scared little bitch like let's face it your first bitcoin transaction you're probably like oh man i might lose all my money and then you didn't know what the fuck was going to happen and then when the transaction reading the address over and over and over again like is that is it a capital g yeah okay j4 like and and then when the transaction gets there you go oh shit this bitcoin

thing is fucking real this is fucking awesome and that's the beginning of your journey right and like we have basically done this stupid thing with self-custody where we treat people like we treat self-custody like it's an intelligence test and I'm guilty of this too I'm as guilty as anybody I thought I could shame and bully people into self-custody I was wrong I was wrong for doing that that was stupid and ineffective self-custody is a skill like driving a car and if you shove a teenager in a car and you go here's the brakes and here's the gas all right get on the fucking freeway stupid they're not going to learn how to drive the car and the goal. is to get them to drive the car. That's the goal. So like what Ben basically did when he gives

the girl the wallet of Satoshi, uh, you know, address is he's basically telling her, here's the break, here's the gas. Here's kind of how roughly how car works. I know you're in the middle of your ship. And if you want to like orange fill people and not be caught off guard, I carry these fucking things in the back of my wallet. This is NVK's, uh, business card. It's the, you know, it's a stats card, right? So you just carry these around, preload them with, you know, 10 bucks, 20 bucks worth of Bitcoin and then just hand them out. It takes one second. It's like, oh, here, there's Bitcoin on here.

There's instructions on the back. Boom. You don't have to do anything else. Those things are incredible. Like, there's such a useful learning tool to load up some Bitcoin on like a car. And actually, you know, the open dimes are more expensive to get. But there's like this intrigue factor to get getting an open dime where somebody looks at that. And you're like, this has Bitcoin on it.

And they're like, oh, my God. And it's like this technological wonder to them. They don't, they're just excited to try it out. But like the stats card in terms of bang for your buck, it's literally an NFC card. And it's like an open dime that can be reused 10 times. And like, what a, what a cool way to like get somebody to play around with Bitcoin. And it takes two seconds to be like, you know, just download this app. And then it's basically you can like tap and redeem Bitcoin.

And people are like, oh, shit, that's kind of cool. so it's it's amazing I'm gonna double down on on Hoddle's illiteracy point and just say that like Hey I'm not illiterate Fuck you dude I'm gonna read a long time ago man

I do books Put the books in my ear I can read hell of good dude What you What you do with 20, 50 and $100 is not what you do with like

saving your your aggregate time and wealth in Bitcoin, right? These are different ideas. So there's like Bitcoin the payment gateway where somebody is going to be able to get paid in a way, in a currency that offers a different value proposition in real time. And that's really compelling. And there's another version of that, which is like, I'm trying to create, save, and transfer generational wealth. And the security model for that doesn't look anything like the payment gateway enabler that that, that, that, um, that, um, that, um, that Ben just gave this woman. So like, we, we need to, we need to like get our act together around which is which and like, how does the shifting security model change over the quantum of wealth that's getting saved. And like,

if that, if that opens the door for this woman to, to receive sats for the first time, incredible. If she makes it to a point where saving that wealth in a in a trust minimized environment is required, like that's on her to figure that out. A hundred percent. The goal here is to get Bitcoin in the hands of as many people as possible. Right. And you know, like it's it's naive to think that the first time you're exposed to Bitcoin, you know, you're going to know how to take self custody. Right. So like you kind of have to like walk into it.

And if it means, you know, putting the wall, like downloading the wall of Satoshian to someone who's never had exposure to Bitcoin just so you can onboard them and get their feet wet a little bit. I think it's a fabulous idea. I think it's a great idea. No, yeah. I think sessions, you did things correctly, man. Don't let the haters, you know, get you down. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a starting point for everything. Like even every industry that you look at, every hobby that you look at, there's an interesting. point. So like you can go to Walmart and you can buy a bike or you can go to the mountain bike store and buy like a real bike that's actually going to service your needs. But if you don't start with that bike with training wheels, like you're not going to even understand or even know that you want to go to the better store. So I mean, it has to happen. The one, I mean, just hopefully there's someone in the timeline after that that can explain how important the keys are. When I'm onboarding anybody for the first time. I pretty much gloss over everything except for the point

that the words are the Bitcoin. And that's that's the only thing I try to drive home. And I'll make whoever I'm onboarding say it back to me over and over and over again. And then I'll say like, okay, now you smashed your phone and the bitcoins are gone, right? And if they pass the test, they'll be like, no, because the words are the Bitcoin. And it's like, okay. That's like, really, that's the only thing you need to like walk away from. And I'm not sure how what kind of, I'm not familiar with Wallet of Satoshi, but hopefully they have some sort of links to that kind of information.

But at the same time, if you get in touch with someone and someone's really interested in it, I mean like there are a lot of good resources out there and even just getting their phone number. Like I got hundreds and hundreds of random numbers in my phone from just random people that I've met over the years that will text me bizarre Bitcoin questions. And, you know, it's that it's just having someone who isn't a banker or isn't a suit,

who isn't trying to convince you that, like, custodial is the best way to do things. And hopefully you've got some sort of access to that kind of information. Yes. I want to give a shout out to Nico for holding down the show in the beginning. I really appreciate it, man. Thank you so much. I like how, you know, you picked up the Miami accent. You know, I really appreciated that, dude.

Thank you. Yeah. Have you been enjoying Canada? Yes. Yeah. I'm Spanish. Yeah, well, welcome to the show, our fourth guest or our fifth member. My buddy was holding it down with me here in Calgary, and I'm stoked to have them.

So welcome, man. Happy to be here, man. I had, like, you know, like coming from a big city, I had, I had. I've never, like, looked into Calgary, never looked into Alberta. Like, holy cow. You guys have, like, a, you guys have a citadel here. It's like a citadel city. A little bit of a citadel.

I mean, it's constantly under threat from communists. But, you know, it is what it is. Like, the Rocky Mountains up here, like, they're the real deal. Like, the Colorado Rocky Mountains, like, that's some bullshit. That's some fake shit. Like, these are the real fucking Rocky Mountain. Like, the fucking peaks are like, you know, like the Grinch Mountain. Yeah.

It actually looks like that. There is, yeah, it is, it is pretty soon. Wait, is that a hoddle? That was funny. I gotta get out here. Yeah. Dude, this is what, you know that 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100 miles of the U.S. border, right?

So if we just wake up feeling frisky, me and Harry one day, and we just decide, hey, let's move this fucking border 100 miles north. We get to capture all you guys and save you from communism. That's true. And we have the tool. As long as you got, you guys need to shut off that parasite shit happening on both your coastlines first and then we'll yeah yeah

otherwise we're just a bad situation hey hey hey Miami is holding it down okay we're base we got the Venezuelans the Cubans there that's uh

that and none of that stuff's going to be happening in Miami that's my favorite thing about you know we've been in Miami for Bitcoin Miami like the last several years and it turns out that people who had to live under communism

and then flee communism really are you ready for this they fucking hate communism They don't like it. They hate it. They're ready to pull out the guns and like whatever. Like they don't care at all. It's a glorious spirit down there. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you, this is a question for the group. Do you know anyone who is a normie who lived under communism who likes communism? Never. The only people who like communism are people who are going to just grab the throat of the people under them. I just like what I've tended to notice is that like countries that have happened. haven't gone through that ordeal. There's this like naivity or like trust trust in government, mass of trust in government.

I mean, that's one of the things going on in Canada, which is what enables it being one of the most corrupt countries on earth is just the level of corruption is so unbelievably ridiculous and in many cases blatantly obvious. But the people here are just so conditioned to trust the government. that nobody knows it's corrupt. You talk to the average Canadian person and they think that the average Canadian is so brainwashed.

They think that we live in a first world country, false, and that we're better than America. False. That is the ask any Canadian, and they're going to say any normie Canadian and they're going to say one of those two things, oh, at least we're not American. Well, you're actually an idiot.

And you live in a second world country and you're so indoctrinated by 12 years of state forced education. telling you that America sucks and Canada's better because our taxes are higher and you can have health care for free. Wow. When I hear people from the United States

talking about our free healthcare, anyone, come up and try it. Just come up and try it. You can have a Canadian citizenship at the same time as an American one. So get a Canadian citizenship and experience the free healthcare and how great it is. You'll be fucking back in America

before you fucking get a hangnail. There's always a pretense for communism, right? I put up this thing on Nostra the other day where I was like, listen, even if the aliens come and enslave us all, even if the mean tweets drive us all to suicide, even if the viruses murder all of us, it's still not a good time to do communism. I got in trouble during COVID because people were like,

oh, you think that your freedom is more important than my life? And I was like, not only is my freedom more important than your life, it's more important than my life. It's more important than my life. It's more important than all of our lives. The whole healthcare thing, the funny thing about it is a lot of Canadians that can afford to like travel partake in medical tourism. Like Lisa needed, my wife needed some dental work. and because it's because it was considered like an aesthetic thing instead of like actually needed

which like she really she fucking needed it she had like major issues and she had to get something filled in and anyways nonetheless it still would have cost us like eight grand to get that thing done and it was cheaper to fly to Mexico and have a 10 day all inclusive vacation and get the medical the dental done, it costs half the price. And if you want to, so like a random side note, I've been getting more anxious on flights lately. I have no idea why, but like my fear of flying has flared up lately. It's communism.

It's it is communism. But. Yeah, but competency rises. Yeah. Yeah. And so like, so I was like, oh, maybe I'll, you know, I'll go in and just like go into a clinic and be like, like, hey, any suggestions like are the things that kind of like help me quell this? And they

recommended a few things. And then the guy was like, honestly, like it is, tends to be a mental thing. And like you're just like you're filling your system with stress hormones that don't need to be there. It's obviously irrational. You know that. You can actually like go and sit with somebody and talk through that mentally and kind of go past that mental walk there. And then he's looking. And he's like, yeah, so if you want to get in with somebody, we're starting to book for next year. Jesus Christ. He's like, honestly, it's probably better to go private with that.

If you've got flights come. When do you fly two weeks? Yeah, you should maybe go private with that. But like this is kind of where it's at. It's like, yeah, if you want to like pop into a clinic really quick and get like a prescription and like it's not like super expensive. Yeah, you're going to wait around a few hours and everything. But like if you need an MRI, good.

There's like, there's one machine in all of Canada for MRIs. It might be two now. It might be two now. It's even worse than that, man, because the, the maid program that you guys have up there is medical assistance in dying is fucking terrifying. Because the state is like, oh, what do you do, man? You stub your toe? Yeah, you want to get in this pod? It's going to fucking stab you in the face.

And then we don't want to see it. And you're like, you don't. know, I talked to a friend about this and he was in favor of the maid program and he goes, you know, I think actually you could make a rational decision to kill yourself. And I was like, well, I don't know how it works in Canada, but in America, if you are a danger to yourself or others, we have the ability to involuntarily commit you because you're not inside your right mind. So no, there is never an ability to like, you know, rationally end your own life.

And Canada is like, whatever, we got hell of dependence and we need them dead. So whatever reason they want, we're going to kill them. Yeah. Well, think about the incentives, right? So the purpose of the Canadian government is to extract and embezzle wealth from Canadian citizens. Medical care is very expensive. So how do we cut costs? The incentives of the entire system are to stop people from having the surgeries they actually need if those surgeries are more expensive than, say, go home and take some Advil.

The incentives are to stop people from receiving any treatment. at all and what what's the best way to avoid a lifetime of expensive treatment so that you can pocket and embezzle more money well but have you considered dying because right now the canadian government looks at every citizen's health as liability so they're trying to reduce that yeah yeah it's it's funny because it also it tends to apply with uh like the incentives incentives tend to apply with with crime and and the prison system too like think of you know you're talking about like oh it's super expensive to to uphold like a state you know a state financed prison system and that's why like Canada has a lot of fucking problems with like increases in crime like the

the the the bail system is totally broken like if you look at Vancouver and it's massive increase in crime. It's like the top, the top 40 offenders in, in the entire city, uh, collectively, like, I think they, they, uh, created, it was something ridiculous, like, 70 to 80% of the crime because they would literally like get arrested that morning for doing a crime, be out like by noon and be committing another crime by the after. So like, it's like this insane percentage of the crime was committed by like 40 reoffenders instead of just like arresting that person and like stinging in prison. You have the you have the inverse problem in the US though because the for profit prison system where judges can actually own parts of jails creates a totally different incentive

system where you lock up a whole bunch of your population. But besides the fact, yeah, we've got we've got problems up here and they, you know, I'd like to see. Yeah, we could talk all day infinitely about how fucked up Canada is for sure. No, I mean, I would even say like, look, like, like, it's just like Canada, Canada, okay, fine, Canada is going down the more collectivist route. American Hoddle definitely sees this. I see this, especially coming from someone who comes from Venezuela. I see that creeping in into the United States ever so slowly and it's happening.

It's a little, it's a little bit harder to implement just because of like, you know, the decentralization of the states, you know, the first and second of. amendment, but boy, they're trying hard, right? Certain states, right? Like, it did state to state. Yeah. But I think that the fundamental issue remains the same. And then, you know, Swetsky and Mark Moss wrote that book, right?

The Uncommunist Manifesto. And what the fifth tenant of, you know, the fifth tenant is the necessity for the centralization of credit, the necessity for central banking. So I think as long as governments have this ability to just print money out of thin air that the rest of us have to work for, I think it's just going to continue to, feed bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger government and they're just going to want to consolidate power, whether that's convincing people to kill themselves earlier than they need to, or all the other crazy ideas.

I think that that's just a natural progression of things. So I think their solution is clearly Bitcoin. It's the separation of money and state. I think that if you force these politicians to like, if any of your crazy ideas, whether that's sending $6.2 billion extra to you, Ukraine and then, you know, magically that money just got lost. If it kind of, if you change the dynamics where you force the politicians to have to go to the populace and say, hey, we're raising the taxes 20% more because of Ukraine, I think you'll

have a revolt on the street. I think the fact that they, they're able to do this with just printing money, it's like this like like secret form of taxation. It gives them this ability to do that. I think that this is the natural, maybe the natural progression of the end stage of central banking is this form of collectivism, which we all refer to as communism. Here's what we do, man. We do hyper-bitquinization. We re-kickstart the global economy. We get scientific discovery back. We invent a time machine.

We go back in time Terminator style. And we stop Trudeau's mom from getting on that boat with Fidel. And we save Canada. She got railed on that boat. The good news is we don't even have to invest in that time machine because there's a lot, there's a lot of infrastructure that I'll talk privately about in Canada. Like we can rip really hard about the bad parts about this place, which is usually concentrated in the sludge core cities.

But as soon as you get within a certain distance from those, it's a completely different place. And because of the intensity of the government and because the police force is not your friend here. And because there are no friends at a state and authority level, local law across Canada is the untold secret. Yeah. Well, look at, again, and we'll rotate right after this, but look at, and made I see all attest to this, but Alberta, during the past couple of years, when everything was shut down, it was an entirely different story in Cal, in Edmonton there are two like biggest cities versus like if you went out to like some rural

town like nobody in the rural towns gave a shit yeah COVID didn't exist in any of the rural towns for the most part I mean you still had people were plugged into their TVs somewhere um so you had pretty much you could just tell like anyone was wearing like the mainstream media oxygen mask listening to the radio or watching uh what do we have for news networks here only propaganda. There's no other news in Canada. It's 100% government propaganda. But for the most part, it didn't exist. And I mean, I went to some giant farm parties over COVID. I hosted some amazing events. And it was a rodeo time as soon as you got out of the city. But you go into the city and everyone's just plugged into those machines, man. Yeah. Yeah, it's something else.

Anyways, okay, so I'll roll this out. We really went down a tangent. But anyways, Rachel got a bunch of sats, and she's super stoked about it. And I am still in contact with her, and she'll message me, and we'll get her on Phoenix Wallet next. And then we'll continue the journey. So there you go. Everything's going to be all right. With that, let's do a rotation.

Hoddle, I'm going to you first, and I'm just going to cue you up. Why are you bullish? Take it away. Yeah, I think it's really difficult not to be bullish at the moment because if you've been around for a while in Bitcoin, I think that you can feel the tectonic plates shifting. Like, these are massive moves that are happening recently. I mean, many that were predicted by the Bitcoin maximalists for a long time. I think, like, the shit coiner seemed totally taken off guard by Gary Gensler's aggressive enforcement. But that's something we've all been predicting for eight years, nine years.

Frankly, oh, my God, we're right again. Right. The only thing that was surprising about it was how long it took to enforce. But of course, they're always going to go after the bottlenecks, which are the exchanges, right? And then on the back of that, you know, you have all these actions coming out that are basically shuffling cryptocurrency out of America, pushing it off shores, right? When you talk about that because I think that a lot of the defy crypto, you know, low liquidity, alt coin stuff is going to unfortunately go to emerging markets where it's going to totally wreck people. I remember. remember this picture of Charles Hoskinson, like orange pilling a bunch of, you know, poor African villagers. And just thinking to myself, it was one of the most disgusting things I had ever seen in my life, period. And I think some of these shitcointers are going to warm their way into the government organizations, because the orange pilling of nation states is happening. And at the same time that Bitcoiners act like the Benad Jeser, and go do our fucking, our work in the shadows, you know, like the Bitcoiners have been at work here, right?

It's like that kind of thing. The shit cointers have also been at work. there are going to be countries that go Bitcoin and they're going to be countries that go shitcoin and it will define the next hundred years for them. And it's really unfortunately dependent for the people in those countries on the leadership of that country, which path they take. And if you believe that American, sorry, if you believe that regular people, you know, individuals have to shit coin before they Bitcoin, which is kind of a truism. There are a few of us that escape that path, but most people do shit coin before they

Bitcoin. Well, then you also believe that unfortunately it applies to nation. States. And so a lot of these emerging market countries are going to get totally wrecked by the people like the Iota Foundation or whatever. And it's going to be terrible to watch play out. So I think we're going to still have to do our work over there. But that said, it's moved offshore and it's not going to be really a North American European phenomenon for retail investors this next cycle. What is going to be the North American phenomenon is the financialization of Bitcoin. So a bunch of Bitcoin going into public markets in the U.S.

And, you know, I think we're at an inflection point here where, listen, in the short to medium term, the ETF approvals, which won't just be BlackRock, it'd be BlackRock, Fidelity, GBT, everybody's getting approved if they get approved. I think that in the short to medium term, yeah, the truth is it pumps the fuck out of our bags. It's so wildly bullish short to medium term, like insanely bullish. Basically takes this thing right up to 500K, which sounds amazing from where we sit today. but it's a double-edged sword. The double-edged sword is we're going to have to move through this period of, I think, attempted co-option and control by TradFi, whether they can get their hands around Bitcoin and do all the things they do

to the precious metals markets, but with Bitcoin, right? And if you think of the way that Larry Fink was on CNBC talking about this, he talks about it, you know, basically like, store of value digital gold, that narrative, that is an attempted ghetto. of Bitcoin, it takes away a lot of Bitcoin's magical properties and it leaves it isolated as this one small thing that's only allowed to exist in this one small way. And so that is the big hurdle that Bitcoin has to overcome. Basically like this giant, you know, cage is being thrown over Bitcoin. And so I think we know as Bitcoiners, it's only a matter of time before Bitcoin breaks

three, breaks free. But the attempted co-option could go on 10, 15, 20 years. And so, Oh, in the short to medium term, wildly bullish, Bitcoin goes to 500K to 2 million, somewhere in there, like by the end of the decade, right? But long term, decade after, decade after that, are we going to escape from the cage? And that's something I think that we all need to be thinking about. So I'm wildly bullish, but I'm also being pragmatic and not, we're not going to get our utopia without really, you know, fighting for it. Okay, so I've got a question for you then.

who needs to escape from the cage? Do you see there being like little like, I don't know, like subsets of society that does just kind of establish their own, you know, like maybe you do start going local and, you know, getting all your shit locally for Bitcoin and you are kind of sidestepping the system to a degree. And then, yes, there's fuckery of foot for, your average mainstream person.

Do the Bitcoiners now all like break out what are the bitcorners that want to and kind of know what's coming break out of that cage early or avoid it altogether and then society at large it gets put in it for a period of time

or is it like everybody's in the cage and then we got to figure it out. Some of the things I worry about and you know, I'd love to go to Harry after this because he can tell me if this is a, you know, overly conspiratorial.

or if this is a practical reality or something that we should be concerned about is I worry about, you know, an era where 5 million, let's say 2.5 to 5 million Bitcoin end up in U.S. public markets. And because of that, you basically have the ESG style playbook, but it's played out on North American Bitcoin miners. And you get something like a NATO sanction mining pool that you have to shoot your hash at if you're a North American miner. On the back of that, you have clean block, OFAC compliant mining. And that's an attempted, you know, co-option and control. Bitcoin at the same time you have re-hypothication in order to suppress the price. That's something I'm worried about. And holistically, even if you escape to your beautiful Bitcoin pocket in the woods,

you're still going to be suffering from the deleterious effects of that many Bitcoin being that heavily controlled by that many powerful elites. I'm going to react to those in pieces because I don't think it's one answer. The first is I'm going to I'm going to, shamelessly steal a line from our mutual friend, Rob Hamilton, the co-founder and CEO of Anchor Watch, and just say that like the cryptography is somewhere between 80 and 100 years ahead of the law. And so the legal frameworks that we deal with are not equipped to react to the cryptographic and technological reality that we're living under today.

And so there's a mismatch. And anytime there's a mismatch, it's important to keep in mind where the mismatch is leading and where the mismatch is lagging. And so I think where the mismatch is leading is, you know, all of, you know, taxation and, you know, regulatory reporting and KYC. Like, those are areas where, where I think, you know, I think the tech lags the law. But in places, you know, great. So now there's an OFAC compliant methodology. whatever methodology they try to introduce is not effective, right? It's not immune from dust attacks.

It's not immune from offshore mining pools. The blockchain today includes UTIXOs that sit on OFAC restricted addresses. So is every new block compliant with these illicit transactions is downloading and running a full node out of compliance with these historical transactions? like we're carrying a ledger right now, you know, in all of our homes, fingers crossed, that that is validating blocks that builds on a chain tip that's already done the bad thing, allegedly. So, you know, the technical reality, you know, doesn't match the way that these laws and these restrictions are typically implemented. And so I think there's going to be like a practical, there's going to be a practical gap that that just,

Bitcoin's going to be able to route. I don't even think it's routing around. I don't think there's anything to route around. We're just going to go through because the tooling that we have and are working with, just like you can't attack it that way in a coherent, you know, form or fashion, you know, unless you were going to go with like try to outlaw the whole thing. And we've seen how that worked in China and elsewhere historically. That's not a functional approach either. So I'm very, I'm very, you know, bullish on Bitcoin's ability to be, you know, moisturized and unbothered. And I'm very bearish on these types of regulatory environment to restrict the functioning of this, of this environment. The other thing that I'm incredibly

bullish on, and I'm not stealing my own thunder, I have more bullish items, is that the I think that we've seen an enormous changing of the guard in terms of the ESG conversation. I think that the, you know, the types of nuclear technologies that are coming to market in the SMR space, you know, just like blow this narrative out of the water. And in the future, you know, my goal is that, is that, you know, we, number one is that we don't compromise on quality of life ever. and that means significantly more electricity per capita all over the planet. I also, you know, regardless of your ideology around emissions, like, I don't want to live next to a coal plant. That thing belches mercury into the air and like my kids will die if I live too close to it. So not that I have any kids at this point.

But there's this, there's this argument that like these, you know, these are fundamentally inefficient methodologies for generating electricity over a hundred year or 200 year time scale in a cartushev kind of environment. And so going towards nuclear generation and using hydrocarbons for manufacturing or chemical processes, like that's obvious. If we fast forward 100 years, there's going to be an SMR in every area. There's going to be lots of oil and death usage, but it's just going to move towards manufacturing and process. Construction, rather than burning for electricity, right? It'll just be less efficient than uranium over a multi-hundred-year time scale,

which is what Bitcoin is designed to thrive over as well. And so, you know, these are the types of ideas that when you think about, you know, what is the production of proof-of-work hashes look like? What does that mean? How does that integrate into a large-scale, high-prosperity system? proof of work becomes a load balancer across all of these chemical processes and across all of these electricity generation methodologies. It becomes a holistic integrated system. And that's why, like, there's no, there's no ceiling on what difficulty could rise to. And there's no ceiling on the

purchasing power that one Bitcoin could accrue. And I see those as two sides of the same idea. Maybe back to Ben's question about, like, are there these little carveouts, you know, maybe the carveouts are, you know, the sort of mining towns that grow up around the stranded energy resources, you know, in rural locations and that get built out into actual, like, functioning metropolises over the course of 50, 100 years. And maybe that's where you want to be and you want to build and you want to take your family, you know. I mean, that's-

Well, you certainly want to be surrounded by builders at any, no matter where you are, even if you're trapped in a sludge city, when you look at your 10 closest friends, 90% of them have to be makers, builders, creators, less think boys, more men with rough hands. That's the infrastructure you want to surround yourself with the majority of the time, regardless of where you are. And those towns that are built around, like a lot of where we are in Canada is built around mining towns is built around industry. Pretty well everything the Canada is is industry.

And we just got sold out by the suits in the east too early for any of our kind of localized efforts to really benefit and build power from the resource and construction and industry efforts that we have here. But I think like running all of this, we have to remember that the majority of people on this planet just want to transact fairly. They just want to exchange and build and create and function with each other fairly. As we know, the only alternative to money if you abandon money is violence. So the majority of us want a system that's fair so that we can execute on our goals, on our dreams, on our visions.

It's a very, very small, small percent of people that are pushing these ESG things and all these other ideas, which anytime I'm hearing some variation of them, the OFAC stuff, to me it's just like BSV or Bitcoin Cash. They're just all going to fucking fail. And these guys at the top, the only reason that their signals seem so loud is because due to their contillionaires and they've been benefiting for a lot. long time from that and they are tied into that fiat system which at this moment they have a lot of power so their signal is much stronger and but when it really comes down to it the engineer is working on these projects and anybody involved that has more of a connection to entrepreneurship and to earning and providing for their family than from sucking and parasiting from everyone else is just instinctively going to connect with true Bitcoin.

So looking into the future, I think that all of these splits and variations threats that do seem quite daunting will just start to not matter because when the people at the top are starting, when they're dictating the controls that they want to try and put in place, to anyone who has the actual skill and ability to execute on those demands, They're going to have to understand what's happening with Bitcoin. And I just have enough hope in humanity from what I've seen from Bitcoin, the amount of us connected around the world on this,

that the individual is going to make the right choice in every one of those situations, every one of them. And we're going to have a lot of influence of those kind of distractions from true Bitcoin come up just purely as a result of the Fiat still having value and people making the choice to, they're just going to have to ask for a lot of money because, you know, and then as soon as the fiat starts to die, it's just going to become less and less common because like I said, the builders, makers, creators, I want to transact fairly with you, Hoddle. I want to transact fairly with you, Ben, Nico Harry.

I want to do fair business and I want to push humanity as far as it can go. And I think, and I could be wrong, but when you look out and you see what we've been able to do in spite of just relentless restrictions and the bureaucracy and everything that's getting in the way of innovation and how the United States has been long dead as a concept for a hundred years. and yet we still are seeing really amazing things come together. That's just a testament to our ability to navigate these environments of theft. And I think everyone working in those is just trying to provide for themselves and for their families. And right now, the only way to acquire wealth is through Fiat.

And as soon as they learn that there's a better option that Bitcoin is something that provides everything that money does, except it's a fair game. I think it's going to be pretty obvious for anyone who's plugging in a Bitcoin miner. Yeah. So much to impact there. Harry was making great points. Maidex was making great points. Hado,

I think you're absolutely nailed it. Why are you bullish? So many of these things that I think we all knew, really, because just the game theory in itself, right? But just because you know, but the game theory doesn't take away from the fact that it actually happened, right? And there was this very strong narrative back in 2018 when people were coping, you know, when the price was falling from 20K back to 15, back to 11.

And one of the coping mechanisms was the institutions are coming. The institutions are coming, right? Now it is clear as day they're here and they are serious. Larry Fink, I think it was on Monday or Tuesday, he went on Fox business and he said, you know, Bitcoin is this international asset. So, you know, we're definitely heading into different times. Now, the only thing that has me a little bit concerned is, yes, I think that by the day, more and more people are waking up.

But there's still, I would say, the majority of the population, specifically in countries that have relatively stable, stable fiat currencies, they're asleep. And Hado, I know, I know, I know, you know exactly what I'm talking. about you live in a big city and it's like they're still in that fiat operating system they're so you know uh enamored with the bread and circuses so to speak they don't really care right um and that worries me a little bit and i remember that natalie bernel she she had a interview with uh with the chad with chad sailor and she asked him like what what keeps you up at night and he said people just don't care about sound money. And, you know, I, and because of that, because the bread and circuses are so strong,

because the currency is not sealing from you enough for you to start asking questions, I'm actually more bullish on central and South America and developing countries around the world. And I think we might see a flight of bitcoins. Like, of course, you know, you guys are going to try to hold it down here in Canada. Hado and I are going to try to hold it down in the U.S. but it might reach a point where the theory from the sovereign individual does come true. And, you know, it just might become more economically beneficial to just move to countries like El Salvador. I had a really good friend of mine, which Ben, you know him as well. And I'm not going to name him, like name it or anything, but he's a very influential bitcoiner.

And he told me he's like, Nico proudly, I renounce my citizenship this morning. you know and and that and like coming from an immigrant like I came to the U.S. and I was nationalized. I was so proud, you know, as a Venezuelan becoming an American. And I think that in the next 10, 15, 20 years, I think it's actually going to be a hindrance to you, right, to live in one of these countries, specifically the U.S. Like the U.S. government is going to fight tooth and nail in order to maintain that privilege of, creating money for free. And I don't think U.S. sanction policy is compatible with Bitcoin. I just don't think it's, I just don't think it is. And I think that there's going to be an

inevitable clash. So I think what worries me is not so much that Bitcoin wins. I know that we're going to win in the long term. What worries me is really this trans the this transitionary period that we're all going to go through. And yeah, but you know, that's that's why you bunker down. you grow your local network and you make these great Bitcoin friends and you grow that community and you try to hold it down

where you're at but I always joke around with Opti on simply you know if this fails we're just going to move to El Salvador and we'll change the name of the show to Simpliment Simplimente Bitcoin

and then BTZ sessions will change his name to BTC Sessions and it's all good We'll all learn Spanish. Or we get put in the Guleg and that becomes the Citadel. Bro, could you imagine the live streams from the Goulogs? It's going to be lit. I hope I get my huddle.

I get the top bunk in the Gulag, right? Yeah. I have to interrupt for a second because we've clearly, we've ruined Yellow's Day. He's no longer like in the spotlight. So I need to actually feature. him heavily in the episode because otherwise it just wouldn't be fair so anyways yeah do you remember like uh it's like i don't know like six months ago some guy was in the chat just yelling show me nips

show me nips it was it was it you it was me yeah yeah hold on i got to ask you have you okay so there's this guy that always watches the show david wong and then everybody was always like this is that just like American hoddle like pretending to be some salty no corner like Rebecca. And so then we ended up getting a spoof David Wong that was called David wrong at one point. But then when the speculation

about it being you popped up, then we got American Wong was the other spoof. So we've got three wongs that frequent the show. One of them actually salty. Sometimes

I do like to pop up in the sessions chat as a nym and just say ridiculous stuff. Yeah, you should, yeah. I thought it was you. All right. Gentlemen, let's do, let's rotate again. Harry, I'm, I'm tossing it to you. I'm going to cue you up.

Why are you bullish, man, take it away? I am bull, well, I'm bullish for lots of reasons, but, but in particular, and I'm going to just shamelessly plug Bitcoin Park, which is a, IRL, co-working space, event space, and overall community, I don't know, crazy adventure that I'm working on with Rod at Bitkite and with Odell. And we're trying to just build a, it's our first kind of Citadel experiment, which is in Nashville. And we're rolling through some good content and program.

We're doing a Lightning Summit next week. So if anybody wants to get on a plane last minute, we'd love to have you. I'll see you there. But are you coming? I will be there. Yes. Huge. Perfect.

I might have to leave Thursday, but I'll be there. I have to leave Thursday night. Huge fan of the park. Rod's trying to get me down there for the Lightning Summit. I'm a member, by the way. Love. Thank you. Love what you guys are doing.

I've recorded a couple Simply Bitcoin episodes there. I mean, I'm sure you probably see this. The whiteboard upstairs. It says Simply Bitcoin was here. I'm pretty sure it's still there. And I had the honor to do the first Citadel dispatch with Odell at Bitcoin Park. Man, what you guys are building is absolutely incredible. It's inspiration.

It's inspirational. In Miami, we're trying to get something off the ground. It's called Bitcoin Grove. Obviously, you know, it's not as nice as what you guys managed to get, the venue that you guys got. But, yeah, it's really like, you know, you guys really are, you guys really motivated a lot of people to really create these Bitcoin communities in their, you know, the local cities and jurisdictions. Shout out to Pubkey in New York and Bitcoin Commons in Austin and, and, I mean, Bitcoin Beach. obviously and many, many, many others. But like this is, this is, you know, this is how I think like you can onboard people by getting

Bitcoin on their phone, but you can also onboard people by showing them what it means to be around other Bitcoiners and other sovereigns. And that feeling is as much a wake up call as seeing the sats hit your phone in my experience. And so like being able to kind of lead through culture and lead through integrity and in those kinds of ways, you know, I just see so many people doing it that how could you, how could you not be bullish? So I'm super, super bullish on Bitcoin third spaces. And what that's going to mean for just for like what we're building, right? Like we, you know, we're, we're not like just internet psychos. Like we come together. We break bread. We cook steak. And like we shake hands.

And like that's the other part of this that makes it work. I think, Cottle and I were talking on Clubhouse like two plus years ago. And we weren't really friends yet. I think we just like maybe bumped into. You're still not, right? Still not. Still not because it did. But we were like, oh, like when I meet other Bitcoiners, I'm like 90% of the way towards friends.

Right? Like I just have to cross like that last 10%. Medex, same thing. Like we met and we were, we immediately knew we were friends. Like there was no, there was no. there was no friction. There was no like getting to know each other. We just like we're in, in it, in the middle of it right away.

And that's something that's really special amongst Bitcoiners spending time together. And so if we can facilitate more Bitcoiners having that experience, like that locks in the network effect that makes this thing work. It lets us transact fairly. It lets us build, you know, the next round of businesses. It lets us just do the next thing. no you know no i i think about the the soft like the lettuce hands meme sometimes and medex what you talked about rough hands like to me the the worst insult you can give me is like you have soft hands like that's like you you can't insult me worse than that um it and and like that comes

from you know years of fixing s-nines like in the middle of the tennessee summer and and other experiences, but just like, you can't, you can't have soft hands. You can't have it with your financial strength and you can't have it with your physical strength. I had a Bitcoiner, I had a Bitcoin friend who freaked out this last cycle and sold all his coins. I won't say who it is, but some people know who it is. We know who it is. And somebody asked me what happened to him today and I said, yeah, he died in a tragic paper hands accident. His hands were made a paper and they caught fire and And he'd be parrish, flame. I, Harry, I want to echo, again, like, the excitement around these kind of, like,

grassroots bottom-up communities that are popping up everywhere. And I think it's really unique as a bitconer being able to just fucking kick open the door on any town on earth and be like, hey, where's the Bitcoiners at? And then, like, Hottle was saying, like, be 90. percent towards being friends. Like you already know that there's a foundation of similar values that is established. And so that allows you to leapfrog the bullshit small talk and dive into like serious conversation that then results in a deeper relationship with those people.

And like it's incredible to me. Like I've had experiences where, you know, it's, it's obviously easy if you're, if you're going to like a Bitcoin event and you get there and there's a bunch of people and you're interacting. But like I've had experiences where I've been traveling not, not for anything Bitcoin related and then just be able to on, you know, on social platform or something, be like, hey, where the Bitcoin is at. And like, sit down with people and just the conversation is instantly we're in tune with each other. And one of my, one of my fonder memories about that was Costa Rica about a year and a half ago getting into a town. And I ended up meeting up with two different people. Lo and behold, each of them, they were both Canadian expats who got the fuck out of Dodge in the past couple of years, which I didn't know before I met up with them. The one guy was telling me about, he ran a successful business here.

he had been living here his whole life with his family and as shit got real last year or like beginning of last year he had already been in Bitcoin for a couple of years kind of had never really interacted with anybody you know it was online but like

in person never and so he just he just lived his life through those couple of years as the world was getting crazier and he was unsure if he was the crazy one and so he ended up actually packing up his whole family leaving Canada, moving, like shutting down his business,

moving to Costa Rica. And when he met up with me, he was the first Bitcoiner he had met, I was the first Bitcoiner he had met in person ever. And the, like, as he was kind of describing what the last year of his life had been, making these like impossible decisions

and trying to grapple with the fact, that he didn't know if he was crazy or not, and then finally sitting down and getting that release of like, I can have a real conversation. Like he had tears in his eyes because he didn't know how to express how relieving the feeling was to finally be like, I'm in the presence of somebody who understands.

And I think a lot of first time, first time speaking with a Bitcoin or in person, those moments are pretty special for people. and they mean a lot. And that's why we're able to forge these relationships so quickly amongst each other. This is a big reason to be bullish. And the 90% thing comes from what is it actually? It's value alignment, right?

And it's very important that, you know, going back to like talking about building, it's very important that these systems, these software systems that we're designing, you know, have our values aligned with them. Right. So like when I got on something like Noster as a bitcoiner, it immediately made sense to me because that's a social media platform that's value aligned to me, right? And when we talk about like, you know, artificial intelligence agents, you know, operating on our behalf, well, it's very important that the AI agents that are operating

on my behalf are value aligned. I would like for them to be mainly built by Bitcoiners. I want people that share this mindset to continue to, you know, build these tools that scale and then create more value on them and everywhere they go. Because really, once you explain like the Bitcoin thing to people, it's pretty easy to realize that everyone's a value. Bitcoiner. What do you want? You want free association, free trade, free speech? Yeah, you're fucking Bitcoiner. Like, it's pretty simple, right? And if I know that you respect my right to have

free association, free trade, free speech, then I know that we can be friends. Whereas like, if you're in, you know, a major metropolitan city or something, you're talking to somebody and they're like, yeah, I just, I really am socialist and I just think we should, you know, rich people should pay their fair share, whatever. And you're going, this is like the equivalent of somebody being at the street lamp outside my house at midnight and I hear them whispering about breaking into my house and stealing all my shit like no we are not value align right like you are trying to steal from me and if I don't comply murder me because of it no no no there's no alignment they're like vampires but vampires actually have swagger so they're much closer parasitic sluds leeches you know the ones

the rubbery ones. They're slippery and slimy. Yeah, I know a few. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, again, the, the, the, so, Hoddle, does that mean in, in your, you know, to Terry's point about communities

and like the international, like, no specific spot nature of this? Is that, is that the Citadel? The Citadel is just everywhere? I think the Citadel grow, you're an encryption-powered individual. You touched Bitcoin and then you became Bitcoin, okay? And I think the Citadel grows outwardly from us. And the idea of the sovereign individual is kind of bullshit.

Really what the sovereign individual is, is the sovereign tribe, right? And you guys already all belong to it. You're already all members. And what does the sovereign tribe of Bitcoin maximalism believe? It believes in respecting the individual, right? So that's how you work backwards to the sovereign individual thesis. Sovereignty is the real pandemic and it's about to become

endemic, right? It's the virus. It's like if you see the- virus is spreading. Yeah, if you see the map, it's all of these little, these communities that are popping up all over. That would be the map like if you're looking at like a virus spreading in different pockets.

It's that, but it's people becoming sovereign. That's why they don't teach. Oh, good, go ahead. That's why people in fucking schools, they don't teach us the proper political spectrum, right? because the choice is so fucking obvious.

So what everybody goes and learns is that, oh, you got fascism over here and you got communism over here. And that's the scale. But what that is, that's a scale of collectivism, right? On both ends, you're getting fucked by the state. The real political spectrum is the individual versus the collective. And when you get the pitch,

would you sacrifice your life to the benefit of everybody else? elite few, or would you just like to do what you want to ensure that yourself is protected and your family is taking care of? And then as a result, you make friends along the way, you look after each other's interests. It's so obvious a choice for anyone that has, the only people who don't get it are the ones who have gone through first 12 years of government indoctrination and then another four years best case scenario of university indoctrination, maybe sometimes 10 years of university indoctrination. And then it takes probably 10 to 15, 20 years for them to unlearn all of that. Or they just decide, wow, unlearning that is a lot of work. So I'm just going to double down on

this whole parasite lifestyle. Yeah. The smallest minority is that of the individual, right? Like that's the actual smallest minority And it's very hard to just interact with people That don't respect you as an individual I think we all went through that during You know the COVID-19 era where there was a lot of collectivist Shaming and you know push back against individuals who wanted to make choices that were against the narrative And you know for me personally I lost relationships because of that and I say good riddance let the bridges I burn light my fucking way

You know what I'm saying like I'm I'm happy? I'm happy with where I'm at. I'm happy with my choices and I'm glad I don't have people around me who are trying to shame me and badger me into doing something that the television told them that I should do. Like, fuck off. I have to interrupt you and give you my bridge burning story. My grandfather, which is,

which is, if you're going to burn bridges, this is his saying, if you're going to burn bridges, make sure that everyone, who belongs there is on it before you like the fire. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

100%. Another one I like is, if you're going to eat shit, don't nibble. Just eat the shit. Awesome. All right, gentlemen, I think it's time for another rotation here. And I'm going to toss it down the line to our, are gradually

becoming a prune man made X here and he's lighting up his Stogey to get this one out but dude I'll cue you up with the same question why are you bullish man yeah the cigar mitigates the prune effect the secret of hot tub dwelling it is medicinal

it is medicinal well so I'm bullish but usually I'm not bullish I'm going to be honest. A lot of the time I'm not bullish. I'm always bullish on Bitcoin, but I just look out into everything that's going on. I just see really how far away we are from sort of the goals that we all discuss.

I mean, on the last show I was on. I specifically spoke about crutching on number grow up technology and Bitcoin and not focusing on your ability to create. and build and produce financial wealth for yourself and and those you care about that's the most important thing that you can be doing like forget about bitcoin how do you maximize your ability to produce wealth that's like the the name of the game is strictly that acquire and produce wealth for yourself and your family and those you care about so i see a lot of people not building hanging around yeah it's gonna go to a million bucks i'm never ever thinking like that i'm never ever

like oh when bitcoin goes to a hundred grand or when bitcoin goes to one million or whatever my head is down and i'm focused on building out like what i want to see in the world and and and that's it and i think that's what every single bitconer needs to be doing because if you're poor as fuck and you buy a hundred thousand sats you know how long you got to wait until that's going to make you rich. So shit posting on Twitter is not enough. You got to get out there and start doing something and figure out what you, what you're best at and put that to work.

We got a huge, huge, huge overdemand of people who just push papers and produce nothing. And that's a direct result of how much just fake wealth is created within Fiat. But people need to get just far away from that. But anyways, my why am I bullish is, I think I'm entering like a stage of being a bitcoiner that is new to me. And it's, it's this, it's this level of, in the beginning, you're really, really, really, excited about it and you want to onboard as many people as you can. And you're putting a lot of effort into that and you're doing a lot of pitches.

And then I think over time, that starts to slow down. You get tired of pitching it and you get tired of answering the same questions over again. kind of just realize that Bitcoin's inevitable and you don't really need to pitch it at all to anybody. And then there's this final stage that I think I'm entering. I don't know if it's the final one. I'm sure there's a hundred more. But I spend a lot of time just deeply concerned about all the forces we're up against in the Fiat universe. I had this realization, which may have been obvious to some people, but to me it was new that really they can print money forever. They can. As long as they don't print it fast enough that it sparks a rebellion, nobody cares.

Like, nobody cares. How many of us have sat there and heard our parents or our grandparents or whoever be like, aha, when I went to the movie theater, it was 25 cents, lull. Glossing over like the scale of theft that has obviously happened in that space. Like with how a 20 25 cents is now $75. And we're not we're not having an uprising. We're not having a problem. So this can just keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. And so this idea that like the financial system is just going to eventually collapse on itself and they can't sustain it forever.

I mean, it's it's it's a little bit true, but it's also not. They can just try and slow it down as best they can. they can distract people, which obviously there's been a huge amount of focus on over the last little bit. But anyway, this last stage that I'm sort of entering is I just don't care about any of that and I just don't even think about it anymore. I'm entering the I don't even think about these fiat parasites at all stage. The only time I start having to get into it or talk about it is when I'm dealing with someone who is who is new to the space or who doesn't already know these sorts of ideas. But between my peers and the people who are our bitcorners like you guys, for the most part, the discussions are not about destroying the central banks. They're about building and making.

And this is my focus because I said yesterday at the Bitcoin rodeo that in the beginning, all of us flailed a lot of Bitcoin. We lost anyone who was early lost a lot of coins. I think that those stories hopefully are going to start to no, they're no longer going to exist. Nobody is going to be flailing coins anymore. So the sort of like thousand X or whatever X from if you were buying Bitcoin 10 years ago is going to be in play 10 years from now, except 90% more people will have been able to preserve that wealth and not lose. it because when I look around at the top guys in the space and the top makers in the space, there's not a single one that has been here for a long time that didn't lose a wallet with over a hundred coins in it. And that's going to just stop. And so 10 years for now, we're going

to see this Renaissance sort of era come into play where now the Bitcoiners really, really do have some impressive capital behind them. And a lot of us do, a lot of us. So, I'm very excited for that, very bullish for that. And in the meantime, I don't think there's anything that really matters other than intelligent people will see Bitcoin is the best option for international settlement period. And there is nothing that anybody can say or get in the way of that. Like just the fact that this world has been built out in the way it is, despite all the horrible things that are going on as a result of these centralized. banks and governments and the fact that we still have a place that is fairly reasonable to live in means that nobody cares nobody's following these rules nobody's following these regulations

and when they are they're pretending to because shit is still somehow getting done and bitcoin just accelerates all of that and so where i'm at right now is i just don't really think about i don't think about the status i don't think about the politicians I don't think about any of it. Because on a long enough timeline here, and I'm starting to see it come together, I know that everyone on this call in the next 10 years is going to have a net worth of a small country,

just between the five of us here. And what are we going to be able to do with that with the sort of Einran foundations that we have, the individualist foundations, and now not only are we on that, but we're in the billions and billions of dollars in terms of capital that can be, allocated and distributed.

So I think I can survive 10 years of the state and all and the central banks doing whatever completely stupid shit that they come up with. I can survive the normies doing whatever ridiculous stuff they're doing. And it's going to like I just don't have the fear that I had for a long time that was, holy shit, we're not going to make it. Because enough time has passed and I've met enough people in the space, which is why it's really important to go to places like Bitcoin Park or what you're working on in Miami or any of these incubators that are coming together because when you connect with these

people in real life, these are the people in 10 years that are going to have the same sorts of powers that all these private equity guys and hedge fund guys and all these high level actors are going to have. We're going to be at that level. And obviously, I think that I think that it's impossible to become a collectivist once you've been an individualist. I don't think you can go that way. A lot of people will start out as collectivists

in some form or another and then eventually become individualist, but I don't think you can go the other way. So I have a lot of hope because with all the resources available to us in terms of just philosophy and economics and all the resources available to us, just Ben, for example, your show is tremendous.

for ensuring the Renaissance happens because in 2011, in 2012, in 2013, there was not a how to not lose your coins video

on the fucking internet. So I'm very, I could keep going because this is a new feeling I've only had for about the last week or so, but it's an inevitable future. truly is and the only reason I know that is because when I'm riding on a dirt bike at a hundred

miles per hour on a gravel fucking road the bike is not failing and if it fails I die but that bike does not fail which to me means that God is real. You know it reminds me when you were talking it reminds me about Ben you know you describing you're having anxiety on flights and I went through that too I had anxiety on flights but I never used to have it before and then it just came up weirdly in like my 30s and I was like why am I anxious about the plane you know whatever and I think I just started to realize how many things were actually out of my control in life that like so basically everything is out of my control in life and then I started to reframe the plane into being this beautiful respite from responsibility

and I was like I'm not flying this fucking plane if this guy kills us all he kills us all it's not my fault. You know, it's like, I have three hours free from responsibility here and I'm going to enjoy the shit out of it. And I feel the same way that Madex feels, which is like, I tied myself to the mast of the ship and I'm nobody's steering.

It's Satoshi take the wheel. Like, no one is steering. And the ship is going wherever the winds fucking take us. And that's just how it is. And I am on the journey. And either I am going to be viewed by my grandchildren as one of the biggest fucking retards that ever lived, one of the craziest people in

their, you know, in the history of the family, or I'm going to be viewed as like, you know, some visionary who got it all correct. And I'm okay with either outcome. I'm okay with either one. Well, if you combine the intelligence of the people on this call, I can, I can assure you that you're going to be well revered by your family. I, I just wanted to say, Medex, you actually you do get me you got me very excited by your kind of line of thinking because

I can confirm your thesis that Bitcoiners are turning into better Bitcoiners faster. I see it every fucking day. I deal with people every fucking day that book me

for one-on-ones that want to like learn some new thing and they tell me their story that oh I got into Bitcoin and 2020 or I got into Bitcoin in 2022 or whatever it is and they're like they're working on multi-sig and they're booting up

their cold cars. They understand that they tell me that they got out of their shit coin phase after six months or two weeks in some cases. The materials are there where it's very easy to hone in on the signal now. You can enter the

space. You can hear the buzzwords and everything and then it doesn't take much digging before you realize oh wow like this is why bitcoin is different i understand now i can do away with all this and i can focus my efforts here and because of number one the resources available but number two the free time that is now available by not having to pay attention all that other crap you level up your bitcoining and your security and your set up so much quicker i'm astounded by by some of the people that call me up and jump on on a video call and they're like, yeah,

I'm, you know, I'm a year in, you know, I got Sparrow going. I've got cold card. I've got a multi-sig. And now I'm just starting to learn other cool shit, like playing with lightning. I'm doing whatever it may be. And like, these people are impressive. And they're not like techy people that are doing this. The amount of people's like mothers that are older than my own parents that I've set up

with a cold card is a. astounding. Dude, tell the story from last night and from yesterday at the Falls. Oh, yeah. We were in Banff. I took Nico out and I brought Julian,

kinetic finance and side note, incredible filmmaker in Bitcoin. If you're not watching kinetic finance, he's amazing. But nonetheless, the three of us were out. We went over near the Banff Springs Hotel. We're down near Bow Falls,

just like a really scenic spot. Nico has just simply Bitcoin hoodie on. This woman comes up. She's like, can I take a picture of your shirt? and she like takes a picture and we get chatting and they were based as fuck like they were talking about oh we got we got to get our second passports and like this country went crazy and like we're we're all in bitcoin and this lady's telling us about oh her son has like been in bitcoin for a while now and he knows what's up and you know she like wasn't you know she didn't

like recognize any of us she was like obviously had been learning from her son and everything but like she knew what was up and then she's like oh you know I'll take a picture with you guys I'll send it over to my son, like on the drive home, her son tweets. And it's like, thanks for making my mom's day, gentlemen. It was like all four of us by the falls. And he was somebody that I already followed and he already followed me and all of us. But like the small world and like the, again, back to Harry's topic of like we have these pockets of bitcoins everywhere. And it's just, it's spreading.

And like the family members and the ones close to them are cluing in and going, oh, wow, these are the important. topics and these are the things we need to learn about is happening fast and medics you're right because in 10 years the bitcoins now to 10 years from now are an entirely different caliber of the bitcoins 10 years ago to to now it took the decade to level up us up at a base level everywhere to hear and it's it's accelerating it's it's that that knowledge base has grown and it no longer takes those 10 years for every everybody to kind of understand everything. You can stand on the shoulders of giants as we are doing now for the ones who came before us. Well, we're making a fucking pyramid, man. Load them up. We're going to stack this thing, you know, many people high.

So, yeah, man, it's coming. It's here. We're seeing it before our eyes. And we're fucking winning, bro. We're winning. Like, I, and Midex, like, and that was very inspirational. right you're saying you just look like i got to a level of bitcoin's end that like i just like i know we're going to win um and then the last part you said which is very strong um you said you

you incorporated god into it and i was like holy crap um this guy's reached the level of the bitcoin rabbit hole maybe i'm not quite there yet but you're seeing i think the inevitable truths that uh that you come to realize as as you as you realize that like your energy your time your work is truly untouchable especially you know if you take self-custody properly you know you're good it doesn't matter where you are in the world you are fine and seeing that lady yesterday you would have never have imagined because it's like you know a typical like lovely lady boomer you know does not dress like a bitcoiner right doesn't have crazy hair um doesn't have a streak in her yeah yeah i'm a streaking her hair you know it doesn't look like a viking uh you know like and

she she she she was saying the most based it it was so based that i was i felt uncomfortable a little bit not because i don't agree with her because i was like holy crap like he's like look we got our second passports we got the saint kit's passports we got to get the fuck out of here they're printing way too much money the taxes are a scam the government is a scam and you're looking at just as like are you okay like you would have never have seen that five years ago and and that goes to what made what made it's saying like we're winning this thing hard and um i think it was hottle that was saying it earlier it's like it's a or maybe it was you ben it's it's it's it's it's it's like it's like in those like pandemic uh movies where it's like the the the you're you're You know, it slowly starts to spread like that.

Yeah. You know, and it's just glorious to, it's just glorious to witness. Also, I love that, as you were saying, she was so, it so, so. You would never assume. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's like we're everywhere. It's like, we're the, what's the movie? The D for Vendetta, bro. Yeah.

Well, high club. High club, yeah. Yeah. But what's the, what's the, what's the invasion of the, body snatchers too. We're like, just like sliding into society and then all of a sudden,

everybody is one. And so like that, that last communists is going to be pretty upset when he realizes we're all based. This is, I've said this before, but you know, all to talk about AI and AGI, right?

Like, are these LLMs going to lead to, you know, the emergence of artificial intelligences? And if there's this thought experiment, I don't know if you ever read Nick Bostrom's super intelligence, but basically in it he talks about,

you know, the idea of a paperclip maximizer. And a paperclip maximizer is a narrow yet powerful AI that is so good at making paper clips, it turns the entire fucking universe into paper clips and destroys all of humanity. So Bitcoin is a paperclip maximizer, except instead of making paper clips, it turns the entire universe into Bitcoin. It is a narrow yet powerful AI. It turns the entire universe into a free market, into a free market. Totally. We touch Bitcoin.

it turned us into Bitcoin, you know what I mean? And it happens everywhere. It co-opted humanity. It co-opted human greed to ensure its survival. And in the process, it basically gives us peace, prosperity, and freedom, right? And I totally agree with that, a hot old. Like, I woke up one night and I was like, Bitcoin is AI. And my girlfriend was like, what?

Like, it's three in the fucking morning. What are you talking about? But, you know, you have like those like eureka moments. And you realize that this thing is, it's alive and it gets humans to fight for it. And 100%. It has co-opted humanity. But again, I guess it has like a negative connotation associated to it when you say co-opted. But it's like it has.

But at the same time, it benefits everybody, right? Equally in a way. If we are disciples of, you know, the narrow yet powerful AI that is Bitcoin, you know, I couldn't think of being a disciple of any other better digital cult because it inspires you to be happier, healthier, make connections with people in your local regions, come together, break bread over shared values. It's a decent cult, man. It's a pretty good cult.

That's pretty solid. It's the one religion that pays you. All the other religions you got to pay. But this is this is the thing with with saying like it did it co-opt us? Like it didn't. We chose to freely associate with Bitcoin. Right. Bitcoin didn't say you need to use, you know, there's no jackboot.

There's no gun. Right. But that's the fucking. So that's the genius of it though. It did co-opted you via incentives rather through coercion. That's the genius of it, man. I remember, I remember Harry when, you know, in 2021. And I have a theory as to like, I really believe that the, the 2021 bull market was cut short because the CCP literally banned Bitcoin mining.

Like in the middle of the run up to the bull run, hash rate dropped. All those miners were forced to sell corn to relocate to other locations. And dude, like the hash rate recovered within, and you're going to appreciate this as a minor, it recovered within nine to 12 months. No central authority, no boss, no nothing, mere incentives alone. So maybe co-opt is not like the right word wording for this. But it's, you know, the incentives alone, I think create soldiers for this thing. I really, really. This is just called alignment, right?

Like we talked about it earlier that like this is this is what happens when you take a system that, that has achieved a reasonable degree of alignment and then demonstrates via both proof of work and the Lindy effect of time, just allowing more time to path with the value proposition being made clear. Like, this is what happens when a system that operates fairly and functions as intended and as described, like works over 14 years, right? were and you know it doesn't just it doesn't just network effects don't grow linearly right they increase exponentially and they decay exponentially and so we're going to see you know we're going to see this

system propagate and and medex i love what you said about the next 10 years versus the prior 10 years like the next 10 years are going to be so much crazier than the last 10 years the last 10 years are crazy because holy shit this thing worked the next 10 years are going to be crazy because holy shit it worked so much better than any of us could have anticipated yeah yeah you know black rock's entry into the etf market is literally one or two steps away from the fed and the ECB putting bitcoin on their balance sheet it's that close well i think there's going to be a war first but we'll be ready i hope you wear that hat when you go to the front lines.

What do you think it's made of? That's a Cavlar Viking helmet. Amazing. I love that you just, was that just sitting there the whole time, like waiting for the opportunity? Well, yeah, man, I'm out in the woods. Yeah, you can, just in case, right?

You can, have to keep the strap nearby, you know. Yeah, especially out in these fucking woods, man. Yeah. And I'm burning all kinds of garbage out here all the time. The bears come by. You never know. All right, Dents,

I'm going to do, can I pass it? I don't know if you have something. Yeah, yeah. I'll key you up. Why are you bullish, because today I just discovered

that after hyper-bitconization, American Hoddle's going to build a fucking time machine and assassinate Fidel Castro. Like, as someone from Miami, like, Hock blocking. That's all I'm doing. But while I'm there, I mean, I might do, you know, just a little.

He's Fidel Castro. A two for one. No, but yeah, why am I bullish? Yeah, so I think you guys were touching upon it, you know, the huddle, you nailed it. The right now, micro strategy is basically break-even. And then Naim Bukle, a very similar story. the Black Rock ETF. I think the next cycle,

so like end of 2024, 2025, maybe early 2026, it will become undeniable that micro strategy and Naim Bukhali on the nation state level, micro strategy and the public company level, there will be completely vindicated.

It will be completely undeniable they made the right decision, which means that other public companies are going to be pressured to take a very similar strategy in terms of potentially putting Bitcoin on their treasury as an alternative to fiat currencies.

And I think that's going to happen a lot faster than we anticipate just as El Salvador making Bitcoin legal tender happened a lot faster than we anticipated. I never forget in 2020, I was like, when I first started simply, I said, yeah, there's going to be a country that makes Bitcoin legal tender.

I would have never have imagined. that within a year, you know, that was announced at the Bitcoin 2021 conference. And I think this, I think it's going to happen a lot faster than we anticipate. It's going to happen a lot, a lot quicker. And that's what I'm really like, you know, that's really, really bullish about. And I'm also very proud, too, to, you know, to proudly say that I frant ran a nation state. I frant ran a public company. And I frant ran Black Rock and the Federal Reserve and, you know, ECB.

Yeah, but they're all idiots. you described as an idiot. So you don't have to be proud about front running them. They're moron. I guess you're right. I guess you're right. All right. So let me stick to my original point.

I'm bullish about, you know, the American hoddle cock blocking Fidel Castro. I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait. So does that mean, are you going to try to steal his girl? Well, I got to fuck Fidel. I mean, Trudeau's mom. I mean. Dude. It's going to be dope in this.

And I'm going back in time, so I won't be married then, so I think I can get the hall pass from my wife. So, like, it all checks off. Yeah. Man, I wonder what our, what Trudeauodle will do with his first act as prime minister. We've got to get some libertarian DNA in there. abolish income taxes the healthcare system is entirely privatized i want to make a comment here i want to make a comment here on this all this institution stuff

i really don't think that anybody should be excited about these institutions they don't fucking matter at all michael sailor does not matter at all what matters is the mason the carpenters, the plumbers, all the industry, all the trades, all the blue collar works. This is the people we need to get onboarded and this is the people I'm willing to put effort into. If every single one dancing around going and talking to the Senate and going and talking to whoever else in big government talking about Bitcoin, it's like pitching to the wolves. It's like talk to the people that are working in your backyard or that are working down the street or that are been like you in the restaurant the other day. because these institutions coming into play, it's like they're going to get a piece no matter what. And it's just, I'm unaffected in any, if Black Rock's coming in and buying coins and people are buying,

that just means that more paper traders are coming into Bitcoin. More people who don't understand the real value proposition that Bitcoin has. That means more people are entering and looking at Bitcoin as a speculative 10x, 100x investment to then cash back out into U.S. dollar or whatever their bullshit fiat currency is it's the people that are working hard as fuck and not getting anywhere because the money they stack into their accounts is melting to nothing these are the people who are going to understand and really drive through that concrete force that that that is bitcoin and so all that all this institution stuff doesn't get me excited at all it just makes it more expensive for the person who can't make ends meet do you think um

Do you think a public, like a, I guess what am I trying to say here? Do you think that that like public vindication of the people that did have the wherewithal, albeit however large coming out and years later being like, yeah, I guess you guys were fucking right and you stacked a shitload of Bitcoin? Do you think that there's still going to be a period where you're average, like you said, like the blue collar worker, the builder, the people like that, will still have a decent runway with that very public vindication where the rest of those fucking institutions have to like, like jump through hoops and like red tape and all that shit before they, like do you think that there's still an inroads there with that?

We all know that the game, that the game, the fiat and the cantiliers play is not fair at all by any means. So once it becomes clear, that we need to get this Bitcoin. All these rules and things and whatever, all the, like those are rules for the PLEBs. They're not for them. So they'll put in whatever infrastructure in place,

even saying stuff, even convincing the general public that Bitcoin is bullshit while behind the scenes they're requiring the assets. I don't think they're, I mean, we have to, I hear a lot of times people will be like, oh, did the CIA create Bitcoin? And it's like, all right, well, let's think about this. as an institution that's sole purpose for existing

is to protect the interest of the Federal Reserve Bank, create the technology that makes the Federal Reserve Bank irrelevant. So they're going to play whatever game they can to acquire as much as they can. And I don't think really anyone's going to have a chance when that gets going. What you do have, though, is once they have acquired that well, They can no longer cheat the system as well. So they just won't last as long. There's a great quote that families are always rising and falling in America.

Bitcoin will restore that. And this whole cronious compounding effect that we see in fiat will no longer exist. And many of these firms and institutions will fail because they no longer have the book of cheat codes that they have through the financial system. But that will take a very long time because a lot of wealth has to be destroyed before they can really lose their grasp. So hopefully we can onboard as many people that are the architecture of this entire civilization beforehand so that the values that we have in this call, the five of us, are can. I don't even, I don't know if we have a chance, but we'll try. I agree with you, Maydex. And, you know, both Ben and I, or Nico and I, we, you know, we dedicate our lives to, you know, basically being evangelist,

some sort, right? Trying to get the message out there, trying to get the average everyday person to take the orange bill. But I think the sad reality is that I think that once, because so many people are brainwashed, so to speak, this isn't the case, like I said earlier, like in Argentina or Turkey, Nigeria, Venezuela, like, you know, you don't need that, you don't need that, like stamp of legitimate approval. People are just like, hey, where can I buy Bitcoin? Let me sign up. right but i think specifically in the west right and we're talking about the blue collar worker like if you get these so-so-called you know legitimate institutions even though we know it's all fucking bullshit it's all fugazi they play by a different set of rules or you get a more nation states basically making

bitcoin legal tender and their eyes right in their eyes they'll see okay maybe this thing is real right and there's a there's a lot of normies that you know unfortunately are just so brainwashed that there's no it doesn't matter how much content i make and how much i try to shake them into like look like you're getting stuck in the left and right dichotomy you still think it's democrat versus republican now fuck that it's the party of green versus the party of orange the party of green is central bank digital currencies slavery uh and the party of orange is is bitcoin peace and prosperity but people don't get that people are still stuck in this like you know divide and conquer system that I really believe they created.

So I, you know, I do feel you. I like, it's like, it's not, it's like Larry Fink's coming into Bitcoin. Yeah. Okay. Totally right. But I also think that that is going to give it in the eyes of the normie that's still still consuming the legacy corporate media, really propaganda. I think that if you get these institutions that are putting their stamp of approval on

this thing, a lot of people are going to be more open-minded to, to using it versus using fiat currencies. If we're going to spend our time red-filling people, let's make sure it's trades people. Yeah. Also, I just wanted to touch on something that I, O'Dell recently did an interview with Napernel. And she was talking about, you know, all the rug pulls and shit that has happened over the past, you know, year two. And she asked him, like, what do you see is the path to hyper-Bitcoinization? and paraphrasing him, he basically said,

we're going to see society as a whole get rug pulled again and again and again and again until every single person on this planet learns their lesson. And I think that's absolutely right. I also think that part of that path is institutions being fiat about how they deal with Bitcoin, but that shit comes home to roost a lot quicker than fiat games with fiat right like you you see it with the exchanges when they when they fuck around they find out relatively quickly like it takes you know like a couple of years a few years for for reality to set in with the fluctuations in the market before it's like oh holy shit uh we just didn't have the bitcoin and and then everything crumbles

And so it's, you know, I see a couple of the accelerationists in the chat, like Praveen. And like the accelerationist argument is people only learn through pain. People only learn the best of their lessons through making mistakes and then correcting for them. And so maybe that's part of it. Maybe the bullish case for institutions is that the institutions are going to get in. They're going to do fiat shit. They're going to fuck up. I hope they do.

people are going to learn from it. So like maybe that's just part of it. And maybe people like the people on this call and the other, the people watching this are the ones that are insulated from it because we get to just sidestep it. We get to focus on building. We get to focus on like helping the people around us and and creating value for others. And we just get to watch this like ping pong bullshit happen until everybody learns.

And so maybe maybe that's what this is. Maybe that's the next decade or two. 100% and we get to watch they're here at least about the story of American Hoddle Smashing Trudeau's mom. It's coming. But I just want to

jump into this and just say that like we're not responsible for anyone else. Like I think that Bitcoiners have like a weird instinct or many Bitcoiners have like a weird instinct to like this paternalism for other people that like

just isn't true. Like we're just not, we're not responsible for other people getting their coins off of, like, rehypothicated death traps. We're not responsible for orange-pilling people. We're not responsible for any of it, right? I am a selfish, selfish, motivated person. And so when I hear Medex say, I want to orange-pilt trades people, I want to orange-field tradespeople, because I don't want to learn how to run the plumbing through my own home.

Right? That's why I care. Amen. And I don't want to pay them in cash. Exactly. And I want to do that. And I have a self-interest in starving, you know, the tax beast, which cash transactions may or may not be a good tool in aiding and abetting.

You know, like, we need to boil all of these decisions down to like, what is our maximal self-interest and then continue to route around that idea? because if you have a mesh of many hundreds of thousands and millions and millions of people doing that, you see positive sum productive behaviors as emergent properties, which is where they belong, right? The opposite of central planning is emergent behavior. And so allowing for that behavior to happen rationally and economically over time is the way that we end up in a better society. Why is it useful to build a business? not to make other people's lives better,

but because you believe that you have a disproportionate ability to generate free tax flow or free tax flow. That's why you start a business and you like it and you get a personal amount of utility out of the work that you do and you improve your life over time by spending your proof of work doing that. Not because you have like an altruistic vision for making the world better.

That's not how any of these successful people thrived. The way that they thrived is, they said, I have a disproportionate ability to deliver something to a market that a market is willing to pay me more than other people are able to get paid. And so we do that at the individual level, hundreds of millions of times and billions of times, and we end up in the world that we want to live in. And that doesn't mean that we've got to prognosticate over what large institutional thing wants to do what or when they want to do that.

don't let anyone move your frame to be able to say that now we get vindication for a past decision. I was vindicated the moment I made the decision because I believe in my ability to assess the facts on the ground around me and act and then adjust if I get new information. That's the validation, is running the OODA loop around my decision-making process. Not when someone else tells me that they agree with me. that's not when I get validated. That's insane. And this idea that we need to step into Larry Fink's frame or somebody else's frame is ridiculous.

And it's time to reassess. You're 100% right. And when you look at, you know, we talked a little bit about communism earlier. I think that really this is a capitalist revolution between capitalist sex. So on the one hand, you have the parasitic capitalist class, which is represented by BlackRock and ESG

that believe that they can nudge theory and do paternalism to the entire world. That's why your Netflix is super woke, right? It's why there were ESG scores on everything until, you know, it became politically infeasible. And they're still going to do the ESG agenda just with, you know, a different name attached to it. Like, we basically killed the name. We fucked up the branding. Right. We didn't kill the, we didn't kill the idea. And, you know, what, what elites want is the ability to do rulemaking. This really all comes down to rulemaking and who has the ability to make. rules, right? And so, you know, the best you can ever do in any sort of social or internal capitalist

versus capitalist revolution is you can get about half the seats at the table because half of the rich people, the elite, the current elites, the cantalianaires, they're going to figure out that there's a changeover occurring and they're going to port their wealth into Bitcoin. And because they're so goddamn wealthy, it's going to be easy for them to do. And they can do it super late in the game. That's their exorbitant privilege as the current parasite capitalist class. About half of them are not going to figure this out and are going to totally perish. And it's like, you know, the Hawthor unquote, families are always rising and falling in America. There's going to be a lot of families that get shuffled off the top spot. A lot of Bitcoin families are going to join the table.

So the Bitcoin families are going to get about half the seats at the table. And, you know, when you get half the seats at the table, you now are in the conversation for rulemaking. And one of the things that Bitcoiners are bringing to that discussion is a very radical and new idea that's never been done before in one of these elite clashes and that idea is that we don't make the rules, we abide by the rules. The rules have already been set.

And all we are asking, or we're not even asking, we're just telling you the actual reality of what's occurring is that you have to abide by the rules now too. The rules are set in code. We are enforcing the rules. They're machine enforced. It doesn't matter how rich you are. The rule set applies to everybody.

And none of us are going to be changing the rules anytime soon. We're heavily in favor of ossification of the rule set. But here's your new rule set. Deal with it. That's basically the revolution that's occurring. We're not, you know, I don't know if a lot of Bitcoiners have gotten here yet, but you're not actually fighting the state.

The state is just a husk. It's just a shell. You're fighting a parasite capitalist class that's inside the state that has taken over the state, that controls and owns the state. The state is a weapon that rich people use against poor people. The capitalists are your enemy. The other capitalists, the parasite capitalists. They're the enemy, not the state.

Yeah, I would just add to your point, Hoddle, right? It's, it's, there's a set of rules that everyone has to play by equally. And they've been used to operating in a system where there is a set of rules, but there's a set of rules for them and there's a set of rules for everybody else. And I think that's going to be the toughest pill to swallow for them, in my opinion. And that's where Bitcoiners have virtue. If Bitcoiners have virtue, it's because we're a rising, elite class that says, I am going to play by the same rules as the peasantry. I'm going to be

subject to the same rules. There will not be special rules for me. Because guess what? If I incorrectly economically calculate and I lose my Bitcoin, it's fucking gone. And now I have destroyed my family. I have destroyed my lineage. And yeah, sure, maybe I had an early position in Bitcoin, but I fucked it up. And now it's, I'm never getting that back. You know, you can't go back in time and bang Trudeau's mom, even though I want to. I do. What? What? What? Okay, I, gentlemen, this has been fantastic. I do have to start rounding it out. And I want to use the opportunity near the end here to do a couple things.

At the end of every show, I like to just kind of do a quick round of any final thoughts that you may have. and then like a recommendation. And given, and what I mean by recommendation, typically it's really anything. It's like, you know, a life lesson that you maybe want to impart on somebody or it could be, oh, go check out this book or this podcast or this video or app or device or just anything. It could just be a singular piece of advice. So this is usually how I like to wrap. And so what I'm going to do first is I'm going to preface this by saying,

jumping back to my original reason for being bullish with orange pilling, hopefully Rachel, the girl in the, the girl at the restaurant that I set up with a wallet and she's gotten tips from a whole bunch of people. and so what I want to do here is and I'm just making sure I have the right run one here

I she did just so I'm still in contact with her she did just message me I was like how much did you end up getting she got uh can this these are in Canadian dollars now 372 Canadian dollars sent to her in the past like day and a half

she's pretty fucking stoked about it and then she's like and I was asking if I could like you know, tell people how much she got and everything. She said, yeah, that's totally awesome. She's like, I'm actually, you know, she's pretty over the moon about it. And I said, if I talk about it, can I tell everybody that you're going to learn to level up? We're going to teach you self-custody and proper security.

And she said, absolutely, we're going to go down that road. So she's in good hands. she's going to learn the next step beyond accepting sats for the first time. So those that were shitty about it and super worried, like, it's fucking me. Come on. I'm molding people into good bit corners. I've been doing it for seven fucking years. I'm not going to let this one go.

So anyways, if you do, if you do feel like popping her some sats, her lightning address is my candle 66. wallet of Satoshi.com and those stats will not be in Wallet of Satoshi long before she self-custies them. So anyways, my candle 66 at wallet of Satoshi.com. Nonetheless, my final piece of advice is if you're teaching somebody, like if you're onboarding somebody to Bitcoin, everybody's start point is so different. And depending on who the person is, why they're curious about Bitcoin in the first place, what their life was like, where they're currently are in their life,

how much time you even have in that moment, and will you be able to continue the conversation later? All of those things really matter. And I think as Bitcoiners, if there's people that you care about, you want to also become Bitcoiners alongside you, or people that you think would be valuable to have as Bitcoiners, as part of team freedom, you know,

whether it be the welders or the, the you know the people that are going to go and like frame a house or the people that are going to do your plumbing or the you know all of the people that build the important shit that we use every day then i think we need to approach education with a low time preference and what that means is don't throw you know your vision of peak bit coiner at this person in moment one because they will turn around and they will not partake, then you will have actually hurt that person that you really wanted to be a bitcoiner because it will take them much longer to come around and go, oh, geez, like if I had started here, then I would have made it to that place, you know, in a shorter time frame,

then ignoring it for another year because I was too scared. So approach education from that perspective and be flexible in your method of education because it's not one size fits all. end goal perhaps could be one size fits all because we all have an ideal, you know, self-custody, run a node, that kind of thing. It's okay to have like a similar end vision for every Bitcoin or that you onboard, but it's very important to realize that that starting point and, and the path to get there is so different from person to person. So, so that's my ending piece of advice or recommendation is be flexible in your method of education. And, and you will be much more successful.

Look at your track record of orange pilling and look in the mirror and decide if you need to make adjustments. That's all I'm saying. Nico, I'm going to toss it to you. Final thoughts, recommendations. Yeah, I'm going to pull up this comment if you don't mind. Yeah. Where is it? There we go.

Yeah, so I'm highly disappointed about Hoddle. I was really excited about, you know, this potential time machine and, you know, this thing happening. So that's my final thought. No. In all seriousness, yeah, look, so I love Odell's famous line, stay humble, stack sat. But I think it was missing a component to it. And my buddy B. Kingo on Twitter, also from Miami, says it all the time. It says stay solvent.

Right. So it's not just stay, it's not just stay humble stack stats. It's also stay humble, stay humble stack stats, stay solvent. And to add to what Madex was saying a bit earlier, build, you know, don't just sit back, relax, you know, wait for your, for your, you know, number to go up. I'm a big believer in building, you know, like this is what it's all about. I think human beings inherently need purpose in their lives. And I think, you know, whatever your calling is, whether that's, you know, mining, whether, you know, that's making content, whether that's, you know, whatever floats your boat, man, you know, follow that purpose. And because Bitcoin's incentives are aligned, I think it just helps everybody else's, you know, helps everyone else's situation. So, yeah, that would be my final message. Awesome. Love it, man.

Hoddle, how about yourself? Final thoughts, recommendations? Yeah, I think it's important. to have a vision for where you're heading and why you're hoddling and why this is all important to you. And, you know, like my vision is really about me being a grandfather surrounded by my daughters and their children and their family. And, you know, we're in a beautiful home in the Rockies and, you know, it's Christmas time. And I have an entire, you know, table, like a long table full of people who are here because I, you know, in this beautiful location because I was able to delay gratification, because I was able to pass on the real

intergenerational wealth to my children of knowing how to think, how to delay gratification, how to know who's trying to attack your mind, how to know how to prevent those attacks, how to build for the future, how to do things that matter, how to align with others, you know, how to be a good person. And I'm surrounded by like a loving home, you know, because of all the sacrifice that I put in over the years. And to me, that vision for my life makes, you know, whatever hardship that comes worth it. And so I think it's important to have a strong vision for where you're heading and, you know, to be the person who's, you know, working every day to create that vision. And one thing I do is like my vision is about a place and being surrounded

by people. And so I continue to take photos of my environment as it changes over the years. And, you know, it's always from my POV and you can kind of think of it like, you know, you planting your wizard staff in the ground and saying, I am going to change the world by hoddling and then watching reality shift around you. Like, you're a wizard, Harry, you've done it. Like that is, uh, you know, some real next level shit. And all you have to do is have patience. All it takes is patience. If you can just sit there and do nothing, you can change the world. It's kind of a weird concept, but. for real. Love it. Awesome. We'll toss it down to Harry. Dude, final thoughts,

recommendations. I'm going to do all of those. The first is, Hottle, I just want to refine your patience idea. You want to have enormous patience for results

and enormous impatience for action. Yes. And that's the trick. Because then you keep your feet moving. And the trick is to just be like however aggressive you think you are like add a zero or add a couple of zeros because the world is an unbelievably malleable place and you can bend it to your will so long as you can

exert sufficient will and and you know this is an idea that I think we I think we kind of talk ourselves out of a lot because it might be hard or it might be scary or it might you know it might just it might just be a lot of hard work um but like you can just change everything like tomorrow if you if you really if you really want to um and then so take that attitude and then apply it to decades and decades and decades and let you know compounding and take its fact because compounding across knowledge learning skill all these different areas like those compounding gains are fucking real. I just think back like, you know, what was two years ago?

Like, where was, where was I three or four or five years ago? And just like, I was a different person. And so letting, letting those, letting time work on your behalf rather than against you is just like, that's the skill. And then applying those ideas to Bitcoin, applying those ideas to generating free cash flow in every way that you possibly can in your life, free sats flow, like that is the trick. you know, and and it's not a secret, right? It's totally obvious. And, and, you know, and Bitcoin has given me more than I could have ever possibly imagined.

And so I don't view that as luck. I view that as, as a debt that I hold, you know, for myself, right? I mean, you know, the only way that I can prove I didn't get lucky is to work really fucking hard for the next 30 or 40 years, minimum. because otherwise it's just going to, you know, you know, the greatest, the greatest gift you can give is when someone asks you, how'd you do it? You just tell them it was easy. And so that's, that's some of it. The other is recommendations. I have two plugs. One of them is buy made ex as art. I own some of it and I own his t-shirts and it's all fucking sick and it's worth spending sats on. The second is come come visit us at Bitcoin Park. We do a free open house every single month with a different topic. And we just love to host you.

And then the third recommendation is a content recommendation, but it's don't sleep on fiction. Fiction is awesome. I think people are like two nonfiction pilled and it's stupid. And Hoddle made a mention of the Benadjazzarit, which is from the book, Dune by Frank Herbert. which is an incredible book. And I just reread it actually last month.

And I had the same copy my grandmother gave me in middle school. So I strongly recommend that book for now, but just in general, like pick up a piece of fiction and read it, especially something at least 40 years old or longer. Oh, yeah. By the way, another one, if you're going to do nonfiction,

do biographies. Because that really shows journey. Biographies. Biography and science fiction are just like, yeah, yeah. Solid.

Love it. Madex, you are up. Final thoughts, recommendations. Well, final thoughts, a pleasure to speak with you guys.

Like to say, it's not about all the private keys we flailed along the way. It's about the friends we made. So, stay motivated. And, uh,

Anyone who's new to the space, I would say anyone who's new, don't be intimidated by being new or feel bad about being new. I find a lot of the kind of people are new or very shy about that, and they don't want to really say that they got in in 2020 or 2022 or even just starting. And that's totally bullshit. Just be honest about where you are on your journey. and just there are plenty of people. I mean, this entire community is willing to help people along on their journey.

I got just on orange-pilling people, the simple way that I do it, unless it's like a direct and important connection that requires a full-blown onboarding setup, which is very rare to get that from me. But my approach to this is that on listing sites like Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist, in Canada, we have one called Kijiji. Just no matter what I ask if the person selling something I'm looking to acquire will accept Bitcoin. They may say no.

They may say yes. It doesn't matter. If they say no, I don't try to sell them. I don't, I do nothing. What I'm trying to create there is just those moments where somebody has that, oh, I could have bought Bitcoin when. Like that's the anchor is from that one time. they were selling whatever and some random person on the internet was like,

well, you take Bitcoin. And I just leave it at that. It's really simple, but it just kind of plants the seed that somebody's offering the ability to transact on Bitcoin. I would say for anyone, if you want to get ahead with what you're doing in terms of finding purpose and like that stuff we're talking about, you got to focus on building something,

making something. The most probably what you can do that will, help your life the most is throw your fucking TV in the river or in the ocean or whatever body of water is closest to you. When Harry's talking about Dune, the book Dune, especially with the book Dune, the movie is not even fucking close to the information that comes from reading Dune. The ties into Bitcoin, the ties into spirituality, the ties into this whole universe are that the movie does not even come close to that. So make sure you're fucking reading these things

and not, if you're going to get into the science fiction world and not going through movies and thinking that you got the ideas from it and especially with Dune. I huddle on your comments about generational wealth. Great. It's very, very important to me, and it should be to you as well that you meet the generations, that you meet the generations this wealth is going to,

and that you part your wisdom on them. So if you got the right girl, what are you waiting for? Go, let's go. You're a bitcoiner. You got that set. And if you're focused on producing wealth and producing value, you're doubling down on what you're good at. And you're providing a service to the market demands.

the idea that children are expensive is a sci-op. It is absolutely fake. It is completely false. They are not expensive. The difference in your lifestyle is a lot, but the difference in your finances is minuscule. So if you got it all set up, like don't wait any longer, get it done.

Because we need as many young kids growing up with the ideas that we have and starting with a massive head start of anyone who's coming into this life stuck in the fiat world. Our children will be born with Bitcoin and will know about Bitcoin from a young age. And the fiaters children will have to discover it after they've unlearned all their indoctrination 25 years later. So have as many kids as you can and give them a good, good solid head start. And I guess that kind of is that that's all wrap.

up together. I have a couple notes here. Let's see. Yeah, looks good. This was great, guys. Thank you very much. Let me quote Kanye, let me quote Kanye West who said, let me hit it raw. Fuck the outcome. You know, none of us would be here without come. Think about it. I don't think there's a better way to wrap that one. I'm just going to. Oh, wait, one one one one fucking more. That's really fucking important. If you're a fucking American citizen, and I own more firearms than you, you need to fucking get your shit together. I cannot believe it when I meet Americans

that aren't rocking, conceal and carry every fucking where they go or open carry. Like, what the fuck are you? Be an American. Use your fucking right. You know how hard it is up here? I got to go everywhere in a whole state and clean than you do.

Get your fucking gun. Florida just got rid of concealed carry. You don't even have to ask anymore. constitutional carry now yeah yeah and that's how Arizona works too it's your birthright to get a gun so if you live in any of those states where you can conceal and carry with a driver's license and you're not and you are a bit coiner what the fuck yep amen to that amen to that

dick out moment says jayb that that was the way to end yes okay gentlemen we can say no more all I will say is thank you guys all so much. You're all welcome back anytime. And yeah, have a great fucking weekend, guys. Gentlemen, it was a pleasure.

It was a pleasure. Always, guys. So much fun. Later, guys. I'll see you soon. You guys stick with me for the goodbyes, I guess. See you guys later. Everybody watching, thank you so much.

That was a blast. What a good time. There was a request in the chat. We can't not fucking touch those tips. Um, yeah, uh, that was, that was blast. You got to come to the studio. I know.

To be here. This is crazy. This is where the magic happens. This is like, it's real. It's not a green screen back there. I know. I know. My, your studio is, is amazing compared to mine.

Mine is like some rackety, like, put stuff together. Oh, man. It's, uh, I guess it gets hot in here after a two people. Uh, we're, we're going to go. It's because we touch tips. Yeah, I think that heated up for sure. Uh, I guess. We're going to go partake in like a, I think I'm going to make me go.

I made them a smoked old fashions the other night. Would you like another one of those? I would like multiple. Awesome. Awesome. We'll see what we can do. Everybody, again, everybody in the chat, thank you so much for watching. Appreciate you guys always.

If you can, please do like, subscribe, share, all those things. They help a ton. They really do. If you want to help the show in another way, you can hit the previously mentioned. sponsors, hobo, hoddle, cod kite, nunchucks, start nine. They're all done below. You can also hit up my website,

BTC Sessions.com, as Nico regularly does to book me for one-on-one sessions about hair care. Highly recommend. Yeah, so you can head up my website, BTCSessionst. There's a place to book me for one-on-ones. And then also, if you really liked what you saw, you can always go ahead. You can support the stream.

Just scan the QR code there. That'll take you to my Geyser Fund page, where you can zap some sats over via the lightning network. And it goes to my own lightning node, non-custodial. Maysayers be damned. So anyways, and also, yeah, if you do want to zap some sats to Rachel, who's super fucking stoked about it. I can't believe you guys zap that many sats over to her.

But kudos to you guys. That's awesome. I'm just getting her lightning handle again before I log off here. It is, oh, geez, I'm so slow. It is MyCandle 66 at Walletofsatoshi.com. Why not? I'll just type it in here. My candle 66 at wallet of Satoshi.com ad.

And did it go? It is. That's her. So, yeah, Zapper, a few sats. If you feel so inclined, I will be teaching her actual self custody and then security and all of that stuff. Fun side note. I guess her dad is like a gold bug and has been like a financial advisor for some time. So like she had the like the base knowledge of like sound money at least. She had heard some bad things about Bitcoin, but I think this has shifted

her thinking about it. And so like it might it might click with the foundation of sound money and now the recognition that sound money is global and instant. And by the way, I think, the reason that it clicked was because of the ease of use of wall of Satoshi. That's that's probably true. It paid a huge influence in it. The fact that she downloaded and she was able to receive it in seconds, I think played a huge role. I think if you would have taken the more complicated route, she might have lost interest.

Yeah. And now the opportunity is, hey, like, you know, she is probably coming from the perspective of everything she's always known has been like a custodial, like my money's in the bank, my gold is in the vault, that kind of thing. And now I get to say like, well, you know, you can actually take that for yourself now. And honestly, the switch over from wallet of Satoshi to Phoenix and like having a little backup, those transactions, they go through like basically instantaneously. It'll show up there right away. And then it'll just be the additional step of being like, write down these 12 words.

Then if you smash your phone or delete the app, you're totally fine. And nobody can also steal your money either. And I think that's the next step. So anyways, to all of you that had the kind words that Z. her sats and everything. It was the first time for me to kind of do something like that. I'm typically not the orange pill on the spot kind of person. I get them like the next rung of the ladder of learning.

But here we are. So anyways, guys, thank you so much. Stop my rambling. I need to go have a beverage. Maybe we might even have a friend to join us afterwards. I'm going to chat with the guys in a sec here. But have a fantastic evening.

I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is Nico with the BTC. sessions and this has been your daily session later guys huddle the bitcoin