BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Bitcoin Ready To Run ep164

Episode Date: April 2, 2021

In a week of the Bitcoin price building towards 60K and Bitcoiners building towards more individual sovereignty, today’s panel guests riff on what has them feeling bullish 🐂. 👉 Adam O’Brien: Founder & CEO of The Bitcoin Well, focused on making Bitcoin more accessible. https://twitter.com/adamobrien_ 👉 Justine (AKA MsHodl): Passionate advocate of freedom and Bitcoin https://twitter.com/MsHodl 👉 Mike Olthoff: Founder & CEO of Coincards.com https://twitter.com/olthoff 👉 Kit Stanwood: Lifestyle blogger and host of the Cosmic Cloud Meditations Podcast https://twitter.com/Kit_Stanwood 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $25 free https://bit.ly/397rlLN Get Wasabi wallet for Bitcoin privacy https://wasabiwallet.io/ Cobo Vault: secure your Bitcoin! https://bit.ly/2GgMFlH BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 LIGHTNING tips: https://tippin.me/@BTCsessions Audio-only version of the show: https://anchor.fm/btcsessions Telegram channel: https://t.me/btc_sessions

Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another edition of Why Are We Bullish? Actually, this is going to be my last show for about a week tomorrow, myself and my wife heading into the hospital and hopefully we'll have a new little bitcoiner within 24 hours here. So wish us luck on that. Very excited about that.

But got to do one more show. Got to get it out there before I take a little breather. So killer panel today, very excited. It's going to be a lot of fun. As always, this is live. So anything can happen. So a quick disclaimer from my friend Bill here. We'll do it live.

Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. A fucking thing sucks. Lots of people in here already. Over 80 people watching live and we barely just begun. Smash that like button.

give this a share and I see the chat is already starting to blow up for sure very excited as always I am Ben with the BTC sessions and this is your daily session All right so before we bring in our panel let's take a quick look at where we are in the markets

I'm pulling up the bitbo dot IO dashboard we are sitting at 58,600 US dollars per coin for a single US dollar you can pick up 1,700 and six sats. We have mined 88.91% of all existing Bitcoin.

And in terms of fees, next block, you're looking at 83 sats per byte. If you're willing to wait an hour, not much difference, about 69 sats per byte. Chart, oh, it looks so scary unless you zoom out. When in doubt, zoom out, seven days. It's beautiful. One month, really not that bad. Pretty much sideways. Your to date is chef's kiss.

So looking good. of course, shout out to sponsors of the show, Len. Notio, where you can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different services. Of course, they have their Bitcoin back loans. These have saved me a few times when I needed dollars and I didn't want to sell my Bitcoin because that's taxable. And I was worried about having a buyback and at a higher price. I was able to deposit, get dollars to my bank. And then when I paid back that loan, get back the same amount of Bitcoin. That's the important number for me. Of course, they got their savings accounts for Bitcoin and USDC, up to 12.5% annually paid monthly. And their B2X offering uses the same loan mechanism to instantly get you more Bitcoin if you're feeling mega bullish. Check them out.

Links below, if you opt to use that link and get a loan, they will give you $25 for free into your savings. Up next, we have the Kobo Vault, one of my favorite hardware wallets. I use this thing a lot. I love it because it's fully air-gapped. It is totally offline. so you never plug it into any internet connected device. This keeps the keys to your money safe and offline. They've got a secure element, Bitcoin-only firmware that you can install.

And I'm using the pro with the fingerprint scanner and the rechargeable battery. I really like this thing for multi-sig in particular. It just works really well with the air gap QR code alongside my cold card is what I like to use it with. Anyways, check them out. Links. I do live on Bitcoin, of course, one of the things I use along with, I will say, along with the guests that I have on today whose service I also use. So shout out you'll hear from him in a bit.

But I do use bit refill. I do like this. They've got a ton of different gift cards, a ton of different accessible countries, and you actually earn sats back as you shop. So that's a nice little bonus. Check out bit refill links down below. And finally, if you're backing up your wallet, you might want to get something a little bit more secure than paper,

especially if you start stacking a lot of sats. I've heard some horror stories of people misplacing their seeds and everything or, you know, general throwing it out or water damage or, God forbid, if there's a fire. So getting it on steel can be giving you even more peace of mind. Check out the bill foddle over on privacy pros.com. With that, let's get this screen off here and let's get our panel in. We have Kit, we have Justine, we have Mike, and we have Adam, all welcome to the show. I am going to go down the line and let these guys introduce themselves really quick. Let's start with Kit.

Can you let everybody, and actually I'll ask if everybody can mute in between when we're not chatting. That's awesome. But Kit, can you introduce yourself and let people know who you are where to find you, all that good stuff? Hi, my name is Kit. I'm an IT project manager. I'm a lifestyle blogger, a meditation coach, and I also ship post on Twitter about Bitcoin. So you can find me at Kit Stanwyrd, Stack and Sats on Twitter. Awesome.

Awesome. Thank you, Kit. Let's go down the line to Justine. Let people know who you are or where you are. Hey there. My name is Justine, Ms. Hoddle on Twitter. I also ship post on Twitter. And I also just started, I joined the Unchain Capital team,

and I'm running their concier onboarding service. So essentially, I get to teach everyone about holding their own keys and self-custody and cold storage. So, yeah. Awesome. I love Unchained. I do have a multi-sig with Unchained. It's excellent. Let's jump to Adam. Adam, Adam, let people know who you are. Hey, I am Adam. I'm the founder and CEO of Bitcoin Well. We're a Canadian Bitcoin ATM company,

kind of dabbling now in how we make Bitcoin usable, very similar to Mr. Mike in making sure that people can use their coins once they have it in their self-custody. We're a non-custodial way to buy Bitcoin, which is very, very important. Awesome, awesome. Welcome. And let's go to Mike down the line. Of course, this was the gentleman I was talking about when I was,

of course shilling one of the sponsors of the show. But actually, Mike was, I'll let you know, I'll let him let you guys know what he does. But I was one of his first customers, I believe. Mike, take it away. Let people know who you are. Yeah. So I'm Mike Oltoff. I'm the CEO and founder of coincards.com. We've been around since 2014 and our main focus is prepaid and digital gift cards that we sell for Bitcoin. And we want to boast that circular economy and get people like yourself living on Bitcoin. We've been doing that since 2014. And you were one of our first customers. Yes. Back in the day, anybody unfamiliar, there was a company that now does not exist, but maybe because they were giving away so much Bitcoin at the time. But they had kind of like

purse.io, basically it was a portal where you could set up orders where you wanted to buy stuff for Bitcoin and somebody would go through and make that purchase for you and then you would then pay that person the Bitcoin that is owed and you could set a discount because some places it's more difficult to obtain Bitcoin and maybe they didn't have ways to do it. Anyways, this group paid my monthly expenses in December of 2014 to live on Bitcoin and one of the ways that I did it was coin cards. They were one of the first people that I found was like, How do I get gas and groceries and things like that? And I was lucky enough to stumble across coin cards.

And it was a big help. Just to date that a little bit in context, at the time, they said, hey, we'll give you $2,500 for your monthly expenses, which did indeed mostly have to be spent. That was five Bitcoin at the time. They gave me five Bitcoin, which I then had to spend all of it. So that I'll kick off the show with that. But this is why are we bullish?

We're going to talk about why we're bullish this week. The topics are really whatever the guest desires. I've got one that I'm excited about. Now, I'm not sure how many people will have dabbled in this, but I don't care. I'm going to go for it anyways. And it comes with kind of conflicting news this week because there's there's portions of it I really like.

And then there's portions where I'm like, I guess that's going to come with a territory. But this week, I'm kind of bullish on Liquid Network. And I'm going to explain myself as to why. So I love Lightning Network. I obviously love self-custodying my own Bitcoin. I find liquid to be kind of like this in-between. And it was initially marketed as a like exchange-to-exchange liquidity method. Oddly enough, I think it may serve some in-betweener purpose for individuals.

That's kind of what I'm looking at. And the reason being is Lightning Network, it necessitates you holding Bitcoin in a way where you can't have it on like a hardware wallet. It has to be hot. It has to be connected to the internet. And so, you know, you don't want to have a lot of funds there. Obviously, main chain Bitcoin, the most secure way you can do it with hardware. So what Liquid is, it's kind of like a federated model where there's a whole bunch of different

entities that have like a big multi-sig. Each one of them has a key to this multi-sig. and it would take the vast majority of them being malicious to screw you and dissolve that one-to-one Bitcoin peg. And so I've been playing around with it a little bit. I wouldn't advise parking all your Bitcoin in it. But I do find it as an interesting in between main chain Bitcoin and Lightning in that you can secure it with a hardware wallet.

And that's kind of the differentiator for me. It's got quicker block times. it has confidential transactions so it doesn't show the amount or the asset that you're dealing with. But to play devil's advocate to that, you can also issue shit coins on top of it. Now, it depends on what you're issuing. But like Blockstream kind of drew the ire of maximalists this week when they issued, albeit a registered security on it, it was still like a effectively like a cloud mining token type deal. And it doesn't look like that great of a deal.

Nonetheless, slightly better than the ICO craze. But I still do like the idea of optionality in terms of layers on top of Bitcoin to facilitate quicker transactions and different features. So I'm gung-ho on it. I did my first video on Liquid. I'm going to do some other videos. and then I'll dive back into lightning stuff. Anyways, that's kind of where I'm sitting.

I'm still, I am bullish on liquid for different uses than originally advertised. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to toss it down the line here. And I guess my general question to each of you guys is, have you only used, and I know some of the answers for some of you, have you only used main chain? And if you have used something else, have you used lightning? Have you played with liquid? are you thoughts on it. Yeah, you're just your general thoughts on usage of Bitcoin and layers.

So I'll go to Kit first. Have you have you only utilized main chain Bitcoin? Have you played with Lightning yet? Kind of where are you at there? So I've played with Lightning a little bit, moving it between like wallets and like Blue Wallet before and then someone sending me some Bitcoin just a little bit, but not like too too much, but it's quick and easy. The fees are pretty cheap. Yeah, and you've used like some main chain stuff where, is it, I kind of my question is, what, what have you been

thinking in terms of, I imagine you're not moving Bitcoin around too too much? Like it's mostly a savings mechanism for you right now. Is that true? Yeah, I've got a cold card, cold card, and so I'm going to use that a lot, but then I do have a little bit. and Fold app that just kind of sits there for a bit. So I'm moving it out of that or like Lolly moving the free Bitcoin that I'm getting. Holding a little bit on Blue Wallet just for fun to like mess around with a hot wallet, kind of learn how that works. And then I also use Wasabi too.

Nice. Does Fold let you withdraw via lightning? Yes. Yeah. Oh, sweet. I haven't done to the point where I'm getting it off there, but I have seen lightning on the app. Okay, cool. Yeah.

I haven't been making, I'm just waiting for the fold card to come to Canada is basically what I'm waiting for. And we'll keep saying soon, but like he may as well just put like two weeks trademark on the website because it's not fucking happening anytime soon from what I'm seeing. So will fold. Let's go. Come on. Yes. But either way. Yeah, that's cool.

I think lightning is kind of proliferating the quickest obviously. for obvious reasons. You know, it's, it is that quick, easy kind of transactional model. And it's cool to see it being integrated everywhere. But yeah, I'm definitely open to other things coming out. I'm going to, I'm going to jump down the line here. Justine, have you, what have you dabbled with? You've done main chain.

Have you been much on lightning, much on anything on liquid yet? Yeah, I've done lightning quite a bit. even went through the process of setting up a lightning node never actually went through opening channels. My node journey is limited due to internet. But yeah, I've messed with lightning a lot. I love BTC server as far as from like a merchant standpoint or even consumer, like using lightning in that way, I think is really solving an issue that a lot of us see as far as from kind

of transacting in Bitcoin. I haven't played with liquid. I always sort of thought of it as like an in-between between institutions. like you spoke of. I like the idea that it's a little, has a little more privacy from a personal standpoint, but I don't really move it a lot. You know, like I buy and it goes to cold storage.

So it's one of those things that's on my list to experiment with, but I haven't gotten there yet. So yeah, I think, honestly, for me, layers are important. In my opinion, the main chain is the, you know, the settlement layer. And then we're going to have layers on top of that. So the more layers, the better. So I'm with you on the bullishness as far as actual personal

experience though I have not dabbled in liquid at all. Awesome. Awesome. I love how the fuck you, Greg, meme is already in the chat. If anybody's on Bitcoin, Twitter, you'll know what it is. But anyways, Greg's in the chat. Fuck you, Greg. Yeah, I do agree, though.

It's, you know, it doesn't necessarily make sense for people that aren't moving Bitcoin around constantly. it you know it's for me i've i've kind of taken that leap where i'm i'm living i'm living on thanks gregg uh i'm living on bitcoin so like i'm invoicing in it i'm uh you know i'm i've got somebody that does my show notes for me and i'm sending them lightning transactions regularly and so i'm kind of experimenting with those in between um in between options and and yeah it is It's weird. It's like, obviously, the gold standard is holding your own keys on your hardware.

And then the worst thing that you can do is just leave it with a custodian. And then this is kind of like somewhere in the middle where it's like a federation of custodians where they all, like a ton of them have to collude in order to really screw you. So it's like not nearly as good as self-custody, but not nearly as bad as an individual. institution. So yeah, I don't know. But let's jump down to Adam because, you know, Adam, you've got unique perspectives on this in that you're a non-custodial solution. So, you know, how are you typically using Bitcoin? How do you see you as a company using Bitcoin in the future in relation to these layered networks on top of it? Yeah, I think Liquid, first of all,

how good is it that Fold pivoted so well? I remember I remember with you, Ben, we were using full to buy like Starbucks gift cards I think was the only one in Canada. Maybe there was a Best Buy one as well. I'm really impressed at how well Will and the team just absolutely crushed it with the set of the model. It was so good.

Were you, did you see when he was on here? Or were you on with him when he was here? I can't remember. I can't remember. It was, he was on here and I was thanking him for making that available to me back in 2014 because I'm

tallying up my first Starbucks visit using Fold paying with Bitcoin and that that single like myself and my wife each got a drink, a meal and like a snack and that single trip cost me 11 grand at this point. 100% dude. I had the similar experience. I was in chapters at like some Starbucks and and yeah, man. definitely like his model now a lot better.

But it was useful at the time, especially like, you know, in 2014, we were all kind of experimenting with Bitcoin. Much, I guess, nice transition, Adam into how like Liquid is now.

I think that like for us as an organization, Liquid will become the onboarding ramp. Like we see our business as the on and offboarding ramp into the industry. A Bitcoin ATM is by and large, the fastest and safest way to buy Bitcoin. There's no custodians in the, middle, direct to consumer model. So I think that Liquid has an important place to play in that if you are the kind of person

that wants to get, you know, money onto an exchange fastly or quickly. If you're the kind of customer that needs Bitcoin but doesn't necessarily need it for the financial sovereignty piece, Liquid's a nice intermediary for that. So I think that definitely as an organization, we're like interested in it and looking at what integrating it is going to do. to look like me personally i've kind of messed around with lightning a little bit we had that jukebox that you did a video and the vending machine that that we um have in the office which is pretty epic um and i think that lightning lightning is the best demo of the bitcoin network like it's quick

it's speedy uh the ux is like generally bad but uh it's it's good enough for a demo uh for lightning and so i'm i really do like the the different like as we as the bitcoin network itself matures and we have more and more layers built on top of it, I think that we're in for a really good treat. Like you think about like really, it's been two years. It's been 24 months of building the secondary layers. Like what is,

you know, what is five years? What is 10 years of building these side chains and secondary network layers going to look like? It's, I think it's pretty exciting. I think it's good stuff. And it's not ERC.

That's, uh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Now, Mike, you operate your store and you have a BTC pay server going, which allows you to take main chain and lightning, correct? Yeah.

So we were actually BTC Pay's first ever merchant. So we've been kind of on the cusp of always trying their new features. And we were one of the first ones to actually enable lightning as well. So back in mid-2018, I think we started with a C-lightening node. And we've seen some pretty constant. constant usage of that. I think I actually just released some numbers today and I think we're around 2% of our total volume is through Lightning right now. Oh, nice. And how's that? So when it comes to, I'm curious what the hierarchy is. Obviously

like Bitcoin main chain is kind of like the first and foremost I imagine, but like what's it look like? Yeah. So it goes Bitcoin, Eith, light coin, Manero and some shit coins in between. and yeah. Yeah, okay, fair enough. Awesome. But lightning's there, and it's a constant 2% or around there, and people are playing with it. And we're seeing a lot more people using it for higher dollar values, too.

So it's interesting to see it. You know, at first it was $25 here and there. But now you're talking like $1,500 to grand. Like those amounts are now flowing through the Lightning Network, and it's pretty cool to see that. Yeah, and I think, You know, if, you know, to play again, devil's advocate to my point, if you were to integrate something like liquid, it would probably be a far less used option, especially currently. It's,

it's just not widely used. But I do see potential utility for it in the future. And that's, that's easy. That's already integrated with BTC pay, right? Like if you decide to turn that on, it's just there, right? Yeah, it's there. I mean, I think a couple of other people are out at the point that right now it kind of feels like it's more of an institutional type mechanism for moving money around. I don't think we'd get enough volume from a consumer side to make it worth it right now. And then we'd have to go and look for ways to convert it to Bitcoin too, because although it's federated and it's still Bitcoin, I just, I want Bitcoin. I want true on-chain Bitcoin because that's what I like. Yeah, that's fair. And I think, you know,

many people have this same general feeling and idea. Whereas with lightning, you know, you can always, if you're running your own channels, you can close out a channel and have the on-chain Bitcoin with, when it comes to liquid, it's a little bit different.

You have to peg in and peg out or just trade one to one with somebody who has liquid versus on-chain Bitcoin. So. And with lightning too, you're seeing services like, I think it's bolts has started a service and loop, obviously, by Lightning Labs. So you can actually keep your money on chain by pushing it out by getting that, or sorry, off chain, pushing that back out to your customers and then getting your on chain funds back.

So that's perfect. Yeah, there's a lot of crazy things. And a lot of that, even for users just having a lightning wallet on their phone, That's kind of being obfuscated in the background for a lot of people. I was testing Moon Wallet, M-U-U-N, and it does all this crazy stuff in the background where you can receive a regular Bitcoin transaction and auto opens like a turbo channel to you. So like money in your side of a lightning channel instantly accessible. And then if you want to send out and it requires, it requires an on-chain transaction,

It will close a channel, send a transaction to somebody on the main chain, and it will also with the change, create a new channel open so that you still have lightning liquidity with the change, which is like all of it's just automated, which is crazy. So tons of great stuff happening. Again, all around, I'm just happy to see these solutions coming out. And there's just, it's like when I first got into Bitcoin, there's so much to play with. and try now and it's so exciting. And so, yeah, I'm very excited for it.

You know, people will definitely have plenty to look forward to in the future. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to keep going with our reasons for being bullish. Before I do that, we've got 130, 140 people watching live. Smash like, give this a share. Let's get some more eyeballs in the room and keep it rolling. And I do see you guys in the chat. Keep them coming. And I'll bring up some of your comments pretty soon.

But we're going to jump to Kit and I'm going to ask you, what is your reason this week for being bullish? Man, there's so many. I was just scribbling. I was like, there's so many. So, I mean, I just feel like big stars like Paris Hilton, other people are coming out. And it's kind of like it's okay now for the masses to just buy Bitcoin. It's becoming like a household name.

And it's like she knew about it. it she bought it like September 2008 she has a picture with Max and Space Max Kaiser yeah and it's like now they're all just kind of like tweeting about it and there's other big people doing it too so that's one reason my other one is like we're in a contago or contago contango yes but there's like no storage cost on it so normally when you have one of those there's the reason that the futures prices more is because of like the storage costs and it costs more in the future so it's interesting that we're like kind of locked in that right now.

I wanted to touch on your Paris Hilton thing. I find, so I saw that come out. It was funny because I was literally just, I was, I was shitting on Ethereum for enlisting, for enlisting Mark Cuban after we just got Jordan Peterson. I said that they got the banana guy and we got Peterson. But I do find,

find it funny. What was I, I tweeted it out. I got to find the quote from Mark Cuban though because holy shit is it ever detached from reality. He said, uh, and I, this is like I woke up, my daughter woke me up in the middle of the night and then I just like after I put her back to sleep, I put her, I peaked at my phone, of course and then got triggered. Oh, he said, Mark Cuban on his cryptocurrency portfolio, I own a lot of Ethereum because I think it's the closest to a true currency, which I was kind of like, like, because it's centrally managed and there's no guarantee of the promises moving into the future. Like, is that what he's getting at?

I have no idea. Sounds a lot like the US dollar. Yes. Way to go. The true currency. Do you think like with this kid, do you think with this Paris Hilton thing, like, do you feel we're going to see a ton of this? like the Paris Hilton's.

Lindsay Lohan came out late last year. But that was like she was immediately neck deep in shit coins. So I don't know. Yeah, she had some ETIA or what was it? Those NFTs. NFTs. Yeah, she's a father with that. But I was like, no, what are you doing, girl?

Don't do that. But I do. I think we're going to start to see more and more companies. We just sell telitubbies, which it's interesting that we saw them because that's, like, I grew up with them and like are they targeting like my age group kind of thing. It's interesting like how it's rolling out right now. That was April Fool's I think. I think it was transitioned it to being some kind of NFT,

which I find even better because the fact that like those people that the best April fools jokes are the ones that are like pretty plausible in happening. And that was like super legitimately like everyone is jumping on. the Bitcoin train right now. So I think that that was fantastic. Oh, it was epic. I think they did something to like raise children, like raise money for children is what I read.

I didn't really look into it. Yeah. Yeah. Kids help phone. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't. I think they sold an NFT.

All the money went to a, went to a kid's help phone, which is pretty good. Great, great marketing at Telitubbies, whoever those people are. I don't know if they actually sold. and like I read the I read the actual post afterwards and so they said like hey we're not we're not they had tubby coin is what it was called and it was it was it was a digital currency based on the

the proof of value of hugs or something like that and anyways so they they were like hey we're not like you get to the end they're like no actually we're we don't have a coin but we're donating to the kids' helpful and everything. So, you know, I feel like, you know, that was par for the course like anybody. The day before, even me,

I was like, what is happening? And it was the day before, I think it's because they did it the day before April Fool's. But yeah. Okay, I'm going to quickly ask everybody, what, what, even though it doesn't

really matter, what is the, public figure or celebrity or whoever that you think you would like to see sport some laser eyes and jump on the Bitcoin train. So maybe I'll start. I'm sorry, I'm putting you on the spot, but it was your topic.

So Kit, who would you like to see? Oh, man. Let me think. Some of people that I really like already have come out and been like, I like Bitcoin, like Mr. Beast. And he's got a huge audience in the gaming industry.

So I was like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Probably like a government official. Like some more of them. That would be awesome. We do. President.

That would be cool. Yeah. Another Senator Loomis is what I think maybe or Warren Davidson, I think, was his name. Yeah, I'd like to see some more of them. How about you, Justine? Who would you like to see? Well, see, I always joke that I'm a horrible bitcoiner because the Telotubbies thing. I was like, really?

Like, have we reached this point in this journey? Like, is this really where we are? Like, is this what we're doing right now? But I mean, I think it's an interesting. And I'll kind of touch on this. Then I'll say, like, I think it's interesting that even these businesses understand the whole and celebrities of like say Bitcoin and then buy my shit coin. Like, this is a thing, right?

And this is what everybody does. And Paris is already talking about NFTs. So when she talks about how much she loves Bitcoin, I'm like, okay. But as far as someone who I would. actually be interested in like coming out full force and supportive Bitcoin would be Ron Paul. That would be amazing to me. I know he's he's hinted at it. He's hinted at it. But Ron Paul with some wazer eyes, I could actually be excited about Paris. You guys can keep her. I'll take Ron. I like that. Yeah. Ron Paul would be I'm down with him. I'm just going to pull up a few

comments before I jump to Adam and Mike on their picks. So we have we have BitPi with more porn stars. There was a playmate that jumped in the ring. Rodney Dangerfield, Jamie Diamond's sporting, sporting laser eyes. Chuck Norris. Anybody out? AOC and Bernie Sanders.

Are we sure Chuck Norris isn't actually Satoshi? I'm not sure we can be sure of that. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. If we have Apple and with slash Tim Cook, Henry Cavill because he's a gamer and a bit of a closet, well, not closet geek, really.

Jamie Diamond, Jet Bezos, Trump needs to admit he owns Bitcoin. I don't think he does, man. I don't know. Arnold. Yeah, there's some good ones in here. Adam, who would you like to see?

I think from like a good conversational standpoint, I feel like Joe Rogan dives into things pretty solid. And on a caveat, as long as he's got like, a real proper maximalist in his ear. If he gets like the danger of, I think the danger of celebrity endorsement is that they look at it still from the, the Fiat dollar gains or the Fiat dollar implications of it,

which is, you know, when they start talking about like all these other shit coins involved, which I think is where the day, and then they talk about it to their, to their audience. You saw, like, I think we saw Logan Paul do that like pretty poorly where he, like dove in with like a crypto guy and and it was it was a little rough but joe rogan i feel like

understands like he's smart enough to get like the philosophy the philosophy behind money it'd be awesome conversation if he was like bitcoin max he'd write up i think that it'd be some awesome jr episode so just for like my benefit of like listening to bitcoin people talk about you know non bitcoin people talk about bitcoin in a good way i think that would be a solid way to do it yeah i'd like to him to have on like I don't know somebody like Preston Pish that would be a good conversation

I think he's had he's had Andreas a couple times hasn't he? Yeah I think Andreas has been on there twice I don't know if they if they did an awesome job dude safe on there would be pretty sweet I don't know if I don't know if

Andreas did an awesome job of like getting the money like like Bitcoin is is a tool of time management and time saving which is what money is supposed to be. And so I think that the more that we got like into that realm of like understanding value and understanding breed love would be sick on. Yeah, that would be a solid episode.

So yeah, that's that's that's that's my kind of pick. I think that to your point, Justine, we're seeing lots of celebrities jump into it and then shilling whatever they're doing. I've got I've got somebody who wants to say hello. Oh. Oh. Oh, what's up, little girl? Hey, can you say hello to everybody? Can you say I'm going to have a little brother?

Are you going to have a little brother? Yeah. Okay, go tell Mommy. Can you close Daddy's door? Thank you. That's right. She's getting excited. She's like, where's my brother?

Is he coming yet? I agree. I agree. Having, you know, and Andreas kind of does, I think he focuses on more of the general tech implications as opposed to like the monetary revolution of it all, which is kind of what we've whittled it down to. I'd say as like the most in terms of people that are like straight dead on with Bitcoin. That's kind of what it's whittled down to as a first kind of order of what we want to get accomplished or what needs to be accomplished first before moving on to the next things. And now we're starting to see the transactional nature as per our lightning and liquid talk. but yeah, yeah, I think somebody like Breedlove or a safe or, or who was the first person he said?

I just totally lost my train of thought there. Oh, I was talking about being on Rogan. I think safe and safe and Breedlove would be epic on there. I think that, yeah, I think the problem is, to Justine's point again, just celebrities jumping in and then shilling, like, you know, kind of using it as their springboard. Like, whatever, if Bitcoin's this, like, I think five years ago, If we had even considered Bitcoin being a springboard into anything, it was like, yeah, like, absolutely. And so from that standpoint, like, we're miles ahead of where we've already been.

But I think that, you know, it's just been an interesting ride watching celebrities jump into the space. I think missed, or not Mr. T. Mike Tyson was paid a bunch of money in 2017 to, like, chill like an ICU. And we saw a lot of celebrities get trapped in like shilling, just blatant scams for millions of dollars. Like Nick Carter. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I was just, yeah, I was just saying, yeah, the people jumping in, it's like our childhood is being relived, right? Through like B-list celebrities, all of a sudden being paid to shill something and saying Bitcoin to, like, promote it. So I think, I think you're right. And from like a non-selfish standpoint, celebrities saying Bitcoin is great, right?

Like, that's a good thing. My concern is, yeah, where it leads them. to because they always go somewhere else. So it's like for me, from a selfish standpoint, I would rather have someone like Joe Rogan or like somebody who gets it, right? Like somebody who really gets it and has an audience and be able to share like what Bitcoin really is, not just, hey, look, it's shiny. Here's my NFT.

But that's just selfish reasons. Anybody saying Bitcoin is good. So I have to sort of remind myself of that. Shout out to amateur investors in the chat. Nick Carter is better than Nick Carter. I love it. Just a sidebar here. I was, well, I sang in an Acapella group for years.

And so, like, growing up, I was a closet backstreet boys fan. And so seeing Nick Carter, Shill Cardano, was like a knife through the heart. I don't want it that way. I don't want it that way. Mike, who would you like to see, Dawn the Laser Eyes? Yeah, so this is kind of related to whatever. also saying about how there's been people who jump on, you know, Bitcoin great, blockchain. Oh, actually, I like Ethereum, blah, blah, blah.

I'd like to see Patrick Stewart come out as a hardcore Bitcoiner, just to stick it to William Shatner and his Ethereum love. That would be great. I would love it. I would love to see a Picard tweet where he perfectly times make it so with like a giant, like, 10K dildo to the moon I think that's fantastic

yes I mean when you get people that are like in their 80s or 90s starting to shell then it's like wow they're like you know somebody's grandpa likes Bitcoin right like yeah yeah I think that's

I like that suggestion the best I'm going to go I could I could be down with Picard and the Bitcoin Picard memes would be again just beautiful I can imagine I can picture it now I doubt that he's actually, I don't know if he manages his own Twitter account, but we should probably start some sort of like Picard slash Shatner or Kirk rivalry

and see what we can get going. Cool. Let's keep going with this. We've got 175 people watching live now. Smash that like button. Give this a share. Keep the comments coming too. Thanks for everybody being here.

And I see my boy band friend here, BTC Hardy's in the chat. He was in my Acapella group. So shout it to him. We're heading down to Bitcoin Miami in June. And I think a few people are. So I'm very excited for that. But we're going to keep it rolling here. I'm going to toss it to Justine.

And I'm going to ask you, what has you feeling bullish this week? Well, sort of to echo what everybody is saying, like, how can someone not be bullish right now? Like, this is such a crazy time. I mean, when we have like Tesla working with Bitcoin, right? Like when Tesla is helping BTC payers solve, like, what world are we in? So yes. But for me personally, I would say that the thing that I find really bullish right now is that the individuals that are coming into Bitcoin are maybe not the ones that we saw even, you know,

when I started in the process three to four years ago. Like, we're seeing a lot of middle age individuals who maybe have their savings sitting in US dollars and they're watching it dwindle and then they see Bitcoin as sort of like this solution and so I deal with a lot of individuals day to day who who are just like I just want to prevent my dollars from wasting away and so I'm going to convert my IRA into Bitcoin you know or or I'm going to take my savings and hold that in Bitcoin and the best part of this is that they actually understand that wholly on Coinbase no offense to anyone is not. like that's not the goal right like they get that the goal is to self-custody so not only are they

actually seeing okay this is my opt-out right this is my savings technology but I also need to hold the keys and I think that's amazing that makes me so bullish that we've actually gone past sort of like this fad and I hate to call it that or like this this demographic that maybe is very technical or very you know like young or whatever we're going to call it but actually we have individuals from all different realms sort of jumping in and understanding that self-custody is really important. So like my saying is Bitcoin doesn't care. And I think that that's kind of the coolest part is about Bitcoin is that everybody comes from a level playing field. Like the tools are there. You have to learn how to use them, but you can come at it from any direction. I think we're

really seeing that right now of like people who maybe wouldn't have experienced it before jumping in and holding their own keys. And I just, that makes me so damn bullish. I love that. And I agree. It's, it's, it's, it's, weird. We've like jumped this kind of generation gap where it was primarily, what's the, what's the key demographic, 25 to 34 year old white males or something like that? Basically me. It was like a bunch of me's sitting in a room. But now I'm, you're right. I'm seeing older people. I'm seeing younger people. I'm seeing all kinds of different walks of life that are starting to realize, hey, my money isn't serving me as well as it should.

And my savings are being dwindled away. And like this past year, there's never been more things that Bitcoiners can point to and say, this is why this exists. This is exactly why it exists. And people, it's, it's no longer a strange conversation to be like, man, they are printing a lot of money. Because before, like even 2008, nobody cared. Nobody noticed anything about that.

They're like, well, we got to fix the economy. And I don't know what that means, but printer go burr. But now that's an actual mean. I got a stimulus check. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's this year has, oh, man, it's red pilled, orange filled, whatever you want to call it. So many people.

But I think that it's sort of like, I hate to use the word legitimizing Bitcoin, but I feel like we've taken this leap to individuals see it as a saving technology. And they're willing to put their whole. entire life savings into it in a way that they feel very safe and secure. I mean, for me, it's my savings plan. That's where I hold all of my savings. And so to actually see them wanting to hold custody too and self custody is huge. But I think, yeah, this year has, it's changed the narrative for sure.

I agree. We've had a shocking amount of rural Alberta farmers walk into our office with like blocks of gold and like the money that you know has been sitting in a Nabob coffee. can for decades. We've had like, like more than 50 of these farmers walk through our doors and like stacking sats, which is just to that, like to your point, like the kind of people is just exploding. And it's no longer conspiracy to say that the government prints too much money. Like now it's fact and everyone sees it.

I think that if you were orange pilled early, you kind of investigated it and had to look for that. But now it's like it's like on CNBC in every morning. Like, you know, oh, they printed another trillion dollars last month. And there we go. So I think that's that's a great point, Justine. Yeah. It's, I love seeing the self-custody push. You know, there's going to be a lot of people flooding into institutional kind of like products that, that are offered out.

There's just going to be the people that buy the ETFs and things like that. But, but there's a lot of people that. And I see this when I'm jumping in clubhouse rooms. I see this with friends and family and they're wondering, well, how do I do this properly? Because I think there's this kind of churning and understanding that I don't know if I can trust anybody with my money but me, which is cool to see. So I don't know. Maybe I'll ask, like Kit, you see a lot of different people. You write your blog.

You chat with people. how, you know, when people ask you, because you do stuff a lot outside of Bitcoin as well, so you probably have interaction with people through your blog that are curious about things. You know, when you're chatting with them or if you get questions like this, are they looking to kind of self-custody or are they unsure? Like, what are you seeing? Oh, man. And so one of my friends last year at the end of 2020 thought we were still on a gold standard. So it's like really bad. It's really, really, really bad out there.

So I'm trying to help as many people as I possibly can. I read the Bitcoin standard and that book just like changed my entire life. And like Justine was saying about people putting their life savings and stuff, I took my 401k out and threw it in there. I was like, okay, this is where this has got to go. Because you see your 401K and I see these charts where it's going to only grow up to be like, $300,000 and you're like, how am I going to retire on that kind of stuff? So I'm explaining this to people and being like, look, this is where it's going to go. This is like a digital money. You can, you know, it's decentralized. They can't print more because people don't even understand

like the stimulus check is causing inflation and diminishing their buying power. They don't get any of that. And it's just like so sad and like traumatizing to hear. I feel you there But I mean you're you're on this self-cousity train You've got yourself a cold card And have you have you played with it yet? Have you used it? Are you like I got it set up it's it's good to go

I need to still I have one of those Metal plates and I need to like punch the holes in or whatever So I didn't do that yet but everything else is like good to go I'm just kind of being lazy That's all good and you what are you using it with like You were saying you're using wasabi as like the the interface. Because cold card, anybody that hasn't used a cold card, it doesn't have like a native interface. You kind of have to pick what wallet you're going to use alongside it. It's kind of like

you buy a computer and then you choose what browser you're going to use. Right. Yeah. And then I also saw a tutorial on Blue Wallet. I haven't like gone through that yet, but it looks like you, you know, you just plug it into your phone and then take an SD card and like push it through that way. I think that might be like a little difficult for people, but I mean, you've got like so many tutorials. I just send that out to all of my friends. And like I've been trying to orange pill my dad for a while, but he watches way too much like mainstream news. So, you know, but I think he'll come around soon enough. That's awesome.

Mike, how are you feeling about more people starting to self-cousity? I mean, you're on the, you're on the forefront of this. You see people coming in and buying stuff. you so they kind of necessitates self-custody to do that in the first place. Yeah, I mean, I hate when people don't self-custody because it just causes so many problems for the customers too. So say like you have your money on Coinbase and you're trying to buy from us. Coinbase is taking their fee, you know, they're taking sometimes three days just to send the funds and then customers are kind of like, well, I sent you the money. What's going on here?

Like just they don't realize that how shitty these fucking exchanges are and how much they take of their own funds. Like, sometimes when you see, like, a lot of the exchanges during this bull run, you know, they're taking point zero zero five Bitcoin. But, you know, that maybe was worth five bucks, but now it's worth 50. Like, so every like withdrawal, you get customers like, well, why did they take $50 for me worth of fiat, right? And just, well, your exchanges suck. Get a custodial wallet. Well, yeah. And that's important.

That really throws, throws a wrench in your operations. Because sometimes places like Coinbase, they'll send an amount, but they'll take the fee from the amount. Isn't that right? Yeah, they send it from the amount that they're sending out. So like if an invoice is 0.1 Bitcoin, they're going to send 0.995 or whatever. And then the customer is just like, well, I sent the right amount. What's your problem? And we're like, no, you didn't send the right amount.

Like go back to your exchange and tell them they suck and get something better. Yeah, it's definitely a problem. Like people, and I remember, you know, Adam, you deal with it too. Sometimes like when you had the, you know, depending on the ATM, if it was two way, it's just nightmare after nightmare of people they want a specific dollar amount out. And you don't receive that dollar amount. And so it doesn't, you know, if you were to let that slide, you'd be out of business in like a day because you'd be given out free cash, right? Yeah, man. I think too, like with the bill payments platform online, people, people like, there's still a

misconception. And I think wallets did a really bad job. Like every single different wallet is set up differently and has a different user experience. And so some wallets choose how much total you want to send and somehow how much you want the other, the recipient to receive, which is different. Because if I want to send like to my point 0.1 Bitcoin, it's going to cost me 0.0000927 Bitcoin. or whatever. But if I want to, you know, if I want someone to, or if I just want to send point one, the recipient's only going to get 0.09, like exactly like what Mike said, which is a huge pain.

Because all of our tools, like in order for us to properly transact and make the transaction autonomous, we have to track the blockchain for an exact amount to the exact address. And if the exact amount doesn't come in, it looks like transaction not complete because our robots, like, you can't program variants into robots. Otherwise, variants can be gamed. And if you're gamed, you go out of business. So it's, it's an absolute headache and nightmare when, and then like to my point, from exchanges, it's even worse because exchanges, like, the U.S.

Exchanges are not wallets. Coinbase is not a wallet. Coinbase is the devil. And I think that, uh, the amount of people that, I think more people get that now, but yeah, I, I could go on about this and I won't because it's not, uh, It's not healthy to think about this many negative things. But we'll take as a whole. We're in consensus that not your keys, not your coins, get yourself self-custody.

If you don't have hardware, take a look. There's a ton of great options. And in general, it doesn't necessarily matter what you're using as long as you're using something, your leaps and bounds above somebody who's just sitting in a hot wallet or sitting on an exchange. So start that process. Just take that leap. Pick, pick a device and just roll with it and go.

So we're going to keep going. We're going to keep this rolling. We got 215 people watching live. Smash that like button. Give this a share and keep those comments coming. I'm going to go down to Adam. And I'm going to ask, dude, what has you feeling bullish this week? So I think what Kit said really struck me.

because my mom and I had lunch today, and my mom is like fully orange-pilled now. She is like right into it. So I've been in Bitcoin since 2013. And like when you're in Bitcoin at any point in your life, you're just like talking about it nonstop. And so my parents like watched me enter Bitcoin like a cult and like, well, like, you know, like the cult that it is. And I told them about it. I was like, you guys have to buy some. Like this is.

And they were like, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. And then we went to New York as a family in 2016. And my dad, like credit cards, foreign exchange, whatever. My dad paid for the trip and then we split up all the expenses after. And I paid him back. And I was like, I'm not giving you any money. I'm only going to give you Bitcoin for this trip. And he was like, that wasn't our deal, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, too bad. Like you're getting Bitcoin or getting nothing. And so they took the Bitcoin, obviously, and never like exchanged it, kept it and have been buying more Bitcoin. And then today at lunch, my mom was like, you know, like, we've been thinking about this Bitcoin we have. and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she's like, we thought about selling one to buy a trailer.

And then she's like, but like a camping trailer. And then she's like, but then we would have less Bitcoin and that would not be very good. And I was like, yes. You get it. This is fantastic. Like you are fully orange pilled. 110%. So don't worry, Kit.

It comes a few years of perseverance and your dad will get there. I'm confident. But I think like just, you know, speaking about. I saw some in the chat here about the 50s up generation. We've been talking about the new generation coming into Bitcoin. That is like so encouraging because I think too what it's going to create is a more stable is the wrong word, but like a more even Bitcoin. Like what we saw was a bunch of weekends jump into the space in 2017 and then panic sell. And I think that the older generation sees it as more of a savings and sees it as more like sound money and understands what sound money has to.

be like when you have 18 year olds buying an asset they think is going to quadruple in two days and it doesn't and then panic sell that's what creates the massive like dips and then jumps and then jumps but now that we have like corporations you know big s and p 500 companies with bitcoin their balance sheet like there's no panic selling happening with tesla there's no panic selling helping over at micro strategies and i think that too that older generation doesn't panic sell because they understand what the long term kind of means so salute to adam's mom Yeah, go Adam's mom. I love it.

Yeah, people are definitely at least there's a kind of a new class of Bitcoiners this time around. We saw inklings of it in 2017, not nearly as much, but now by and large, Bitcoiners, when they want to see number go up, yes, it's nice dollar number go up in relation, but they want to see number of SATs number go up. And that's that's kind of the name of the game. And and it's now almost become like a slur to refer to somebody as thinking in Fiat and measuring their games and gains in Fiat. It's like a joke if somebody says, well, I made this number of dollars and then you just pull out the versus Bitcoin chart and it's like a trend to zero. That website is so tragic.

What's the website where it like it shows like, things that came out in shit i bought yeah yeah yeah something i bought yeah bitcoin or shit actually let's let's play around of that oh man it's tragic when you look at like the nintendo switch or like an xbox or like it's so funny seeing like oh you'd have eight million dollars right now if you hadn't bought let's let's let's okay we're basically going to round raise our hand if you bought the shit. So this website is called Bitcoin or shit.com. And it says if you bought Bitcoin instead of fucking stupid shit, you'd have X amount of dollars. So it says, click here. This can't be that bad. All right. If you bought Bitcoin instead of a fucking four hour chef, which is a book, you'd have

52,4002. And I think it's important to to know. Do you have it? No, man. No. It's right here. It's 52 grand What are the chances You have that thing Sitting behind you on this randomized platform You are the loser man You are the loser Does anybody have that?

No, just me Oh god damn Never heard of it before I feel this This is the fold app I feel this Thanks Will Yeah although I didn't buy the first

Starbucks copy in 2011 with Bitcoin Well, that's a weird one. Starbucks has been around for like a really long time. Yeah. Let's see. You bought instead of, oh, no. So this website, for guys that haven't seen this before, this takes the item on the date of release and tracks the price of Bitcoin on that date

and kind of does the math behind the scenes. And it's totally randomized, which is pretty epic. I do have this book. it's somewhere here. Anyways, from Nassim Taleb, who recently capitulated 1.63 Bitcoin. Although I bought it more

recently than 2012. So let's do one more. Oh, Tinder. I didn't have that. If you bought Tinder instead of bought Bitcoin instead of Tinder gold, you'd have $2,257 or 0.04 Bitcoin or was that 4 million

sats. Oh no. There's some bad ones on here. You put a price on love. Oh, I'm guilty of that. Oh, yeah. I'll click one more. Just put Pornhub premium. I don't have Pornhub premium.

Not for me. Let's not pull this one. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, it's a really funny paradigm shift. And like when you look at the value of money and like, I've been harping on it quite a bit lately, Bitcoin is not an investment at all. Anyone in the chat talking about it's not an investment because an investment implies

you have to sell at a higher price to get into something else. But Bitcoin is savings. Bitcoin is the savings tool. It's super important that as a society, we just change the way we look at money and value. Everybody's razzing me in the chat for having all those books. You should be fair. Regular human has that many books.

I do have a lot of books back there. That's so unfortunate. I mean, to be fair, they probably help me partially in my Bitcoin. Maybe not the chef one. I don't even think I finish reading that. Clearly that came up before skip the dishes too. That's true.

That's true. Yeah, but I do like your point, Adam, that people, again, name of the game seems to be stack and stats instead of measuring dollars. We celebrate. There's still definitely a lot of celebration around dollar price, you know, laser raised till 100K, all that. Yeah, well, I think like as a savings, tool, you spend what you absolutely need to, right?

Like your house floods, you dip into savings. That's like, that's literally what savings is for. And when number go up, you spend less sats when you need it. So if number perpetually goes up, that's very good because you have to spend less and less when you absolutely end to like spend it. Like your quality of life is important. I have a chair. I still sit in chair.

I know, look at us. We're all in chairs. We all have a certain quality of life that we're that we're striving for. I think it was Kiss called me out. on one of your panels. He's like, what are you doing in a chair? What kind of bitcoin are you? We all need to be doing deep squats. Quality of life is very important. We're going to, you know, buy a house. Go enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think Adam just frozen. He got so riled up about Staghan. He was so excited about the chairs. I was going to say to you, and I know this is,

we've kind of, it's sort of correlated to this. So I do agree that I think that the coolest thing about this generation coming in is they think of it a little bit differently. Like I don't know many 35 to 60 year olds that are going to be trading. Just not really a thing. Like they're seen it as a savings thing. I did just want to point out that because I just saw a comment and hope you don't mind me doing this. But somebody was talking about their IRA. You actually have the ability to like roll over your IRA into Bitcoin without having to do like a penalty. So just for people who are in the audience talking about it, you can do that. So keep that in mind. That's great. I love it. Mike, how like, like,

Adam's still frozen. Sorry. I know. He's literally coming back in right now. You were so enthralled by the chairs. Oh, man. I was on the chairs. Clearly, I have not splurge for good internet, much like Justine, her and I are too hardcore Bitcoin to have decent internet because we don't trade. We don't need it. But yeah, anyways, the chairs, you need a quality of life. You need to live and enjoy. You have to buy stupid things. if that enhances your quality of life, then fantastic. So I think that when number go up, it just costs you less sats. It costs you less of your savings to do so, which is what savings are there for. Savings are there for emergencies and to improve your life.

And Bitcoin, there's no better unit or asset or commodity on the planet that does that better than Bitcoin. Yeah. Mike, how are you feeling about stacking stats versus, stack in dollars. Yeah, so I mean, it's no secret that I want people to spend their Bitcoin.

Like, that's my business, right? I mean, I see it as a checking and a savings account type deal. Like, I obviously hold Bitcoin. Our company holds Bitcoin. But I also support those companies who are willing to accept Bitcoin. And I think that's an important part that some people kind of need to get over a little bit sometimes, that if a company is willing to accept Bitcoin and they, committed to actually holding that Bitcoin, like say Tesla, for example, they've told people,

we're going to hold this Bitcoin. So by you selling that Bitcoin to buy a car, you are actually pushing Bitcoin into somebody else's hotel wallet, but at the same time, you can go buy more. Like, there's nothing stopping you from buying more to replace what you've just spent. You're helping actually get those coins off the network and making your coins worth more by spending it. you know, obviously there's some tax implications in that, but I think we have to, like, as a community, when there's those opportunities to support some of these local merchants that actually

are accepting Bitcoin, we need to take that step as well. Just buy more. Go all in if you want. That's literally my life. I, you know, I'm going to find ways to get by and, you know, use different services. I can use Adams website to pay bills. I can use, your website to get my necessities. There's a lot of great options out there that allow you to do so. And I was very worried when I first kind of stepped into the idea of living on Bitcoin. I'm like, oh, God, the tax implications and the normalizing of spending it. But I actually found that I'm much more conscious of what I'm buying. I save more than I used to. because all the money that comes to me

I actually place value on it. I plan more for the future. I'm less, I'm like, I'm not going to buy the trinkety bullshit that's going to break in a month. I'm going to buy the thing that's going to last me two decades. And so while I spend more in the,

you know, initially over the long term, I'm actually spending less and I'm building habits that will benefit me much more in the future, even though, yes, obviously, we'll be able to go and look at Bitcoin or shit and be like, oh, I spent that much in dollar terms how many years ago. But it's those habits that you're bringing into your life by changing the almost like the fabric that constitutes every decision in your life and changing that fabric, it has far-reaching

implications for everything you do. So it's pretty incredible. Yeah, and there's so many people that are like, you know, I regret buying. a computer monitor for X amount of Bitcoin and blah, blah, well, you would have spent the same amount on that, like, with Fiat. So, I mean, that's exactly it. It's a wash. Like, you either would have spent the Fiat and not stacked, or you spent your stack and

didn't replenish, but it's the same, it's the same thing, 100%. Ben, you're starting financial responsibility, which unfortunately is like a rarity in our society because our money has lost value for so long that we've been hyper-incentivized to spend it as fast as possible. And I think that as Bitcoiners have more children, and we teach the methods of like financial sovereignty and the thought process behind fiscal responsibility, society can change. And I think that's super super super super. I'm bullish on that.

Yeah, I agree. And I'll toss it for one final thought from Kit. How has it changed like utilizing Bitcoin? and starting to stack stats, how has it changed your behaviors in terms of savings and in terms of spending? How do you feel? Well, I feel like it's changed me more

just like that as a person because I move every year, so I've moved the last 10 years, so I don't own a lot of stuff and I do kind of save, but I was going out a lot in D.C. when I live there. But it's just changed my outlook on the future. Like I'm like, okay,

now I want a family and have kids and stuff. And like I would bring a child into this world where the money is like sound. Because like before I'm just like I'm not going to retire. And then you know my kid, what are they going to do? Like work two lifetimes. I don't know. You know. So it's changed me drastically in that sense, which is really exciting.

Yeah. And it's it's you're right. This generational thing where, you know, a lot of people. people kind of in our general age range here, they're worse off than their parents. They can't afford as much. And those that seemingly have a better quality of life than their parents did have basically financed it through debt. And other people that have just kind of broken even and appear they basically, they don't

want to step backwards and have less. And so they fill in that gap with debt. And that's kind of the culture that we grow up in. So it's unfortunate, but Bitcoin fixes this, friends. And that's why we're here. There's also a paradigm of interest rates, like decreasing. Like all the wealth that was created over the last 20 years has just been a moving of money from banks to society. Like housing, like when you bought a house at 13 or 15% interest and then sold it for, you know, 3x, 25 years later, that was that value wasn't created.

It just moved from going from one place to another. And so I think that. you know, we're really seeing, going to truly see what, what this, this monetary policy kind of looks like for our generation forward. Super bullish on you having kids. That's great. Absolutely. I love it. All right.

Let's keep going. We're going to go to our last reason here. We've got around 200 people watching live. Smash that like button. Give this a share. Keep those comments coming. And we're going to jump to Mike. Dude, what has you feeling bullish this week?

So I was actually going to go with a little story. And then I'm going to talk about one other thing, too, if that's okay. So the little story was I deal a lot with companies that have absolutely nothing to do with Bitcoin, obviously, merchants. And I got a message just kind of out of the blue last week. And it was just like, hey, can I ask you a question, be honest with me. How does it feel to know you were right? And it was just like, yes. just like Adam's shirt

like just you know to get these people in you know older industries just kind of be like you know this guy was nuts back in 2013, 2014 but he was right so I just I thought that was awesome like that was a highlight of my

week just being like hey man how does it feel know you were right about this do you think that person is going to call you up next year and be like I knew you were wrong no I found I found out he's been holding Bitcoin. Hey, there we go.

I think he listened to me back when I was the crazy one in the room. That's great. And then the other reason I was going to touch base on was the tax people are coming hard on Bitcoiners. And I think they see this as like, I'm bullish because I know they want their money. And they see this as something that, you know, they want to set it up right now. So as that number grows, they can get their gains. I think we've seen the CRA is gone after

Coin Square in Canada the IRS is gone after Crackin and a few others and it's just you know tax entities want their money and they're almost bullish they're saying hey we're bullish

we want this money because we know that you guys are going to get these massive gains coming up and that makes me bullish it almost encourages so there's a couple things I mean, one thing I worry about is people not preparing for that, particularly those that, that it does encourage like just having Bitcoin, right? Because if you're, if you're trading a ton, all of that is is taxable gains, right?

And so we saw in 2017, especially near the peak when people were just going bananas over everything. It was just everybody was trading everything at the top, like just buying every altcoin and ICO that they could and swapping them around and thinking that they made all these gains. And they did realize a ton of gains, which they had traded their Bitcoin for. The issue with that was especially in that calendar year was December 17th was the peak. and in the months following leading up to tax season, it was a massive downturn. And so they had all of these taxable gains, these capital gains taxes that were outstanding

at the end of the calendar year. And when tax time came, all of the shit coins that they were holding lost so much value that in a lot of cases, their entire bag full of trash that they were holding onto wasn't even worth the outstanding taxes. They basically lost everything. because of poor timing.

And I worry that people don't anticipate that kind of thing this year. So if you're watching this now, just know that every time you trade, especially like Adam and Mike are talking about, here in Canada, in the U.S., all over, they're looking at exchanges and they're saying, hey, we want to cut. And, you know, as shitty as that is,

it's inevitable that it's going to happen. So just know that if you have bad habits right now, it's going to get only more expensive if you continue those bad habits into the future. So keep that in mind, maybe get an accountant if you're like, wow, I've got so many mad gains from trading all year so far. Maybe take that into account. So I don't know. Maybe I'm going to work my way around here. Kit, are you your, did you ever? get into the trading before you started just stacking sats or were you

I like got into Bitcoin when it crashed in the 2020 and I was like oh well I'm not making much money in the stock market I'm just gonna like day trade this and so I made some good money and like that is gonna be taxes last 2020 or whenever that was and now I don't know once I learned about the tax thing. I was like, oh, I'm not going to like trade it anymore. I'm just going to hold it. I'm never probably going to sell it. I think I might loan against it is what a lot of what I've been hearing is kind of the thing to do, the move. There's a lot of different ones coming out where you can like hold your own keys like hoddle, hoddle, some other ones as well too. And on changed.

Right. Yeah. So there's come, you know, getting into Bitcoin is just like a learning experience in a journey. You're just always learning. There's some more. more companies coming out that are helping you do things easier. And I made a lot of mistakes, which I hope to help other people not make. Because, yeah, it's rough. And this is the first time I'm doing my taxes by myself this year. And so it's a really good one to like, time. Yeah.

Well, I mean, hey, like every lesson that you learn and you're kind of helping impart that knowledge on people as, as you, luckily you're, you know, you seem to have kind of fallen into a group of people that will hopefully corral you in in the right direction and you're avoiding some of the pitfalls of falling into crypto Twitter versus Bitcoin Twitter. So, you know, like it's it's never messed with the shit coins really. So that was a good timing aspect. I've only kind of been in Bitcoin. Just learning like I'm an IT.

So I know like this structure. And then learning about the other ones. It just didn't make sense from like. a computer standpoint of like how everything is working for me for the other ones. Fair enough. How about you, Justine? Are you bullish on taxes? I just went through.

So I'm pretty open about my journey. But I started like in a social chain, right? Because Bitcoin was sort of over my head in certain ways. And so then I ended up, you know, selling all of that that I had earned from blogging and buying Bitcoin. and then having to pay taxes on that transaction was. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things, like, from a libertarian, freedom-minded statement, taxes fucking suck. Or excuse my language.

Yeah, taxes are horrible. But if you don't pay, you know, it's extortion, right? So we're all sort of chained to this thing. So, yeah, I think the greatest part is as long as you don't sell, you don't have to worry about this, right? So as long as you just hottle. But last year I got paid in a little bit and actually did some, some. I had to sell for expenses. And it's painful.

I mean, I know some people in the chat have sort of mentioned some sites that make it easier. So you might want to look into some of these where you can actually like import the trades that you did. And it sort of like formulates them all into a really easy to use thing for your taxes. But yeah, I do think, getting back to the point of being bullish, I do think that when it comes to Bitcoin and this whole idea that like government's going to ban Bitcoin, which is comical. And we have senators with laser eyes, right? Like this is this weird timeline we're on. But I think that the idea of what are they really going to do is get their cut. And taxes are how they get their cut.

So as long as they're getting their cut, I think they're kind of happy for now. So it's sort of part of the cycle. But I guess my long term plan is I'm not going to pay taxes because I'm not going to spend it for now. But then I also support, you know, Bitcoin. It's like an economy thing. So it's sort of back and forth. But I do spend in a place sometimes for like companies who want Bitcoin like Mike was saying earlier.

So yeah. Yeah. It's a double-edged sword. It can be a headache. At the end of the day, like for myself living on Bitcoin, as like you said, taxes fucking suck. But you know what? Fucking sucks even more is not having to pay taxes on your dollars because you've

been living at a loss. So like in general, if I'm paying taxes, it's because I've made material gains by saving my money and then being able to purchase more goods with it. So like, you know, another thing to be bullish on is emigrating to Portugal. So that's that's that's another possibility there. But Adam, what are your thoughts on? Oh, go ahead, Justine, finish up. I was going to say, I think we've all like searched the whole, where can I live?

These taxes, I've been doing that a lot lately. I have like a whole list going. Yeah. Where can I go? That is a really interesting concept because. Bitcoin makes a closed system open. And because of the borderless nature of Bitcoin, we're going to start seeing governments compete with each other

on how low and how little they can tax Bitcoin and get away with it. And like if Canada is like triple what Portugal is or what the Bahamas is or something, we're going to see a flock of all the early adopters of which if you own Bitcoin today, you are still an early adopter. Just like flock in droves towards these like, you know, lower tax. crypto kind of people. So I love that. Like the government, the most infamous closed system in the entire world is making governments and compete against each other for like our business, which is our our our taxes. So I think I think that's a great. That's why I like the idea of like,

well, that's why I like Bitcoin. It makes governments compete with each other. Well, 100%. It's like in the the book, the sovereign individual, they talk about people, jurisdiction, shopping because the world becomes so open in terms of money, in terms of communication, in terms of everything, being able to work from anywhere. And governments, it gets to the point where governments will have to compete to win constituents, right? They're going to have to compete. And basically, you will be a customer of those governments.

What can they provide you in exchange for taxes at what price? Like, I literally picked up this book the other day, The Nomad Capital, and it's all about going where you're treated best. I'm literally researching jurisdictions that may be more favorable over time. You know, it kind of sucks for the in the U.S. because Uncle Sam is literally going to follow you everywhere until your death. But, you know. Also on the, on the point of taxes, sorry, Justine.

Go ahead. On the point of taxes, I like that Bitcoin is not taxable to hold. We have so many assets on earth assets that the government has full control of and that tax to hold. You look at property like from from day one when you're born. Everyone's like, oh, wow. I think I even saw it in the chat. What's the house going to cost when I? It's like, who cares?

Rent your house. Like you can rent that shit. And I think that we have Bitcoin in an asset that we can we can hold and own ourselves and not pay tax just to have, which is in an. itself going to end up being one of the most like revolutionary things in like 50 years when everything you can't click your toenails about being taxed we're going to have an asset that's going to allow us to to hold and not be taxed and not cost us money to to maintain is going to be really beautiful yeah yeah i i wonder how much of the the real estate market that is just strictly investment assets versus primary residence is going to go

away and going to flow into Bitcoin because there's real, that's a drain. Like, you can't get some. Yeah. Like there's, it's like a horrible thing to do. Yeah, exactly. Like you've got, you've got, um, you know, your property taxes, but then on top of that, you've got upkeep.

You've got to make sure you have a tenant if, you know, if you're renting it. All of these different things. Um, how much less of a pain is it to just save your money in Sats? And, you know, the world may be waking up to that. sooner rather than later. Yeah, I'm super bearish on property ownership. Even I think that like renting your primary residence and owning like whatever vacation property you kind of want or need is like the best way to do it.

I think Spoon Man's got it right. Although I think there's a saying about renting things that start with F. However, floats, flies, I think. Maybe one more in there. Spoon Man, you better be careful on that boat. there are many, many ways to have an unfortunate boating accident. So watch your back, watch your cold card, watch your sets. I'm going to wrap it here, guys.

I'm going to round it out. I'm going to get final thoughts from everybody, just anything you'd like to say to round it out, as well as where people can find you. So we'll start with Kit. Any final thoughts for the week? And where can people find you? Just buy some sets.

this week sometime, find some time for it, you guys. And can find me at www.kittstamwa.com or on Twitter at kit stack and sets. Awesome. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for being here. And Justine, how about you? Well, first of all, I want to say congrugrats for tomorrow. Like, I'm so excited for you.

So thanks for doing this with us. And yeah, good luck and everything. But yeah, Justine here on Twitter, Ms. Hoddle, you can also find me at Unchained. My email there is Justine at unchained dash capital.com if you have any questions about concierge service or holding your keys or anything Unchains doing. So I have to throw that chill in there right since I'm technically at work. So yeah, so you can always find me on Twitter. I have plenty to rant about there. But yeah, thanks for having me today.

Awesome. Glad you were here. And let's jump to Adam. Dude, any final thoughts? And where can people find you? Echoing Justine's sentiment. Justine and Mike, all as always, nice chatting. and Kit, great to meet you

and awesome conversation. Ben, you're the man. At Adam O'Brien underscore on Twitter, and www.bitcoinwell.com is the org. Also, how good is it that no one, we had to tell no one they were muted, which is pretty solid. One internet collapse,

but that's pretty epic for a panel of five. We have not had the, oh, we can't hear you. So, yeah, pretty epic. Yeah, that's amazing. Also, shout out to Ken Bozac, who, Just tipped a hundred bucks and also said don't pay taxes on your crypto.

I cannot condone his messaging for legal reasons. But thanks, Ken. I love to see you in the chat there. Let's hook up again soon. And let's jump to Mike. Dude, any final thoughts and where can people find you? Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm on Twitter, usually shit posting or posting some Doge Love.

I know the shit corners are going to be like, what? You have a shit corner. are you shown? Oh, I'm just kidding. Yeah, at Oldtoff on Twitter and coincurs.com. Come check us out. Spend all your Bitcoin so I can get more. That's the best pitch I've ever heard.

Savage. That's great. Awesome. Well, guys, thank you so much for being here. Again, always the best part of my week doing this show on Fridays. And very excited that you guys could join me for my last show for a week. I will be off, but yeah, was glad to have you guys here. So I'm going to cut your audio and video for now.

But if you want to stick around for a minute after we go offline, we can say a quick goodbye. But if you have to bail, I understand. So thank you guys. And to the audience, thank you guys for being here with me. Always a blast. Really enjoyed sharing my last show for a week with you guys. As always, please do hit like, subscribe. and share.

All those things help so, so much. They get the show in front of more eyeballs. If you want to help with the show in another way, you can hit up the sponsors I mentioned down below. Ledden, Cobo, Bitrefill, Bill Fottle, all of those are linked below. And again, I will be probably still a little bit of shit posting on Twitter this week, but I will be absent for a week, of course,

enjoying family time with the new Bitcoinser as he makes it into this world. but with that, if you really love the show, you can always drop me a Bitcoin Lightning Network tip at my tibin.me page, t-i-p-p-in.me-slash-at-B-T-C sessions. With that, I'm out. I will see you guys in about a week. As always, I'm Ben, and this was your daily session.