BTC Sessions - Why Are We Bullish? Bitcoin SMASHES $16K ep115

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

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Awesome. Okay, so everybody, welcome to the show. I am Ben with the BTC Sessions. This is the second ever episode of Why Are We Bullish. I've got some excellent guests. Very excited. I will introduce them momentarily. But we're going to be basically, this is a giant equivalent of a Twitter shit post, but in YouTube form. And it's just going to be a giant circle jerk about how much we're excited about Bitcoin. And that's the format of the show. So we're going to dive in right away, but let's get this thing rolling. All right. So we are first going to get started. I just want to, of course, give. I always do this.

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Also links for the Black Friday stuff down below. And finally, if you're living on Bitcoin or you just want to treat yourself, bit refill, a ton of gift cards for, it basically helps me live on Bitcoin. I'm as all in as you can be. And sometimes I need to eat. So bit refill is where I go to scratch that itch. They work in tons of different countries and you earn stats back as you go. So be sure to check them out. Let's take a look at where we're at right now. Bitcoin sitting around $16,149. That is $6,192 Satoshi's per dollar. Getting down there, guys, getting down when three digits sat per dollar, we will see.

88.3% of all Bitcoin have been issued. And right now, fees for next block, 60s per byte, 7 stats for half an hour. and anything beyond that, one sat per bite. So if you need to move some stuff around, maybe time, the time is now because those one sat per bite days are going to be fewer and further between. But with that, let's start adding in our guests here.

I've got a few really great ones. I'm going to get them all up and running here. Of course, I have... Actually, I'm going to let you guys go through. We are one shy. I should say, Miss Hoddle, unfortunately, is living in the boonies, and her connection just was not cut in it, but we will try again with her soon. But I'm going to start with Adam. Adam, can you give a little intro of yourself? Yeah, I'm Adam O'Brien. I am in Canada in Edmonton,

and I own Bitcoin Solutions. We're a Bitcoin ATM operator up here in Canada. Awesome, awesome. Let's go on to John. What's up guys? My name is John and I'm the host of the Bitcoin Rapid Fire podcast. Awesome. And Phil, take it away. Hey, everyone. My name's Phil Geiger. I'm the director of product marketing at Unchained Capital. Really excited to be here today. Awesome. This is going to be an exciting, fun conversation. I'm super bullish. Basically, the format here is we're each going to drop a reason why we're feeling bullish. It can be kind of like a recent event, just something we're excited about.

I'm going to kick it off, we can riff on it, and then we'll move on to the next. So I'm just going to quickly screen share one more time here. This tweet by Mr. Hoddle, not to be confused with Ms. Hoddle, this tweet from Mr. Hoddle, he says, we're at 16K with zero hype. This is going to get stupid. And he shows the search trends with Bitcoin. and we have barely moved and we are getting close to all-time highs. And it just kind of goes to show, and maybe I'll blow this up just so everybody can really see. But yeah, the search is up from like 2016, but it's nowhere near the mania that we saw in 2017.

And I think it kind of beckons to the fact that this next year could really blow people away. And I you know, you see it more, but it's there's the level of Uh, irrational exuberance outside of just the hardcore bitcoins is non-existent. Nobody gives a shit still. And we're, you know, we've only ever been above these levels for what, like a week, two weeks or something. Yeah, 10 days. It's insane. Yeah.

So anyways, I, like, I just wanted to riff on this and, and, and, say I don't think we've even come close to seeing anything yet. And we're going to have like potentially like multi thousand dollar single day candles and it'll just be a normal thing. I don't know. Let's all pass to Adam. We were just talking about this with the team like just this morning. Um, so we're like in Bitcoin ATM space.

We have a pretty good insight as to what the retail market is, is kind of doing. And our numbers have been, have been good, but they've been pretty steady. And last time this happened, it was the exact same thing. This is like where Bitcoin was in 2016 at the $1,000 level. It was like, you know, occasionally you get a text of like, oh, hey, Bitcoin's going up, what's going on. And that's kind of it, you know, the occasional busier day than normal. But, you know, when we see like when Bitcoin was was five grand back then, like when I started

hitting that kind of trajectory, that's when the tech started flying in. That's when everything kind of got it crazy, which for us at these price levels is 100K, which means, you know, the mainstream, the normies or do you want to call them, don't really wake up until, you know, that kind of $100,000 mark, which is, which is crazy to think that that's kind of like, I don't know, it's kind of in the sites. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. John, how are you feeling? I feel fantastic. Yeah, I mean, what really is amazing to me, I mean, I agree. I mean, I'm getting hit up by a lot of friends and stuff, but the, closer friends that have kind of known what my interest in the space has been for a long time. And now, like, they're just starting to get pushed over the edge. And nothing pushes people over the edge and peaks or interests like NGU, as we all know. But I agree.

I mean, it seems like this is mainly, like, institutionally led and retail is kind of lagging behind. And I don't know if that's like a bias of the price. Like, as this creeps up, you know, people are thinking, wow, it's so expensive. I mean, why even bother? I'm never going to be able to buy a full Bitcoin, which is why on a side note, I really think, you know, Sats the standard is something that we should be promoting in this space. But look, I mean, like, I love number go up. We all love number go up. But what I really love is that a lot of people, I speak to a lot of 2020 class of 2020 Bitcorners. And not only are they getting it faster than, you know, previous. years it seems, but it's almost like people are becoming attracted to, like, let's, the comparison of 2017, that was pure speculation, right? People like Googling, what is Bitcoin, how to buy Bitcoin, they buy Bitcoin, they got burned, they sold, they hadled, whatever.

But I think the broader narrative of this being a parallel new, growing economy and culture is actually starting to be a very compelling aspect of this narrative and being involved in this. And that's partially a result of the fact that there is a very real economy and culture being built here by us and everybody else that's in this space. And I talk about this a lot on my show, but, you know, the Bitcoin is the tool. It, you know, it's the how, but the what is a new civilization, basically. it's a renaissance and the different components of that renaissance the the art the culture the expression the music the the behavior there's the method of interacting the governance all this kind of stuff is actually what we are all playing with and molding and testing out right now as being a part of

this space and it seems to be compelling to outsiders looking in like yeah money is great but because like at least to this point i know bitcoin has like crushed over the last two weeks, but like markets have been rewarding people pretty good this year. Like if you were in the markets, if you were well positioned in traditional markets, like you probably did okay. And so I don't think it's exclusively number go up. Number go up. I think people see this community of, you know, bright, articulate, confident, hopeful people where there's, you know, so there's so much support and there's so much interaction and they want to be a part of that. And the different philosophies and the different, you know,

understandings that this community is always kind of grappling with and exploring and refining and talking about, I think it has a broader and broader appeal against the backdrop of the Rona and the macro landscape and that kind of stuff. And so, you know, the thing that I'm most bullish about is that it's becoming more and more apparent that this thing that we're all contributing to is transforming people. It's transforming how they live, how they act, how they behave. And it's as a result of having a collective of kind of transform people, a new civilization,

a new culture is emerging. And that's the most exciting thing because that's your life. You know, it's great to have X number of Satoshis or dollars in your bank account. But, you know, your day-to-day existence is all about your satisfaction, your energy levels, your happiness, who you're interacting with and what you're devoting your energy to. And, you know, I think that's what's, that's the real story that's emerging here. And nothing makes me more excited than that. I agree. I wanted to touch on something you said briefly before we go into Phil here.

You said people are getting it faster. And I think I totally agree with you. Like you see it with, I mean, obviously Sailor had to do. Michael Saylor had to do his research in what he was doing. But when it comes to it, he got from the point of more or less being introduced to it to absolute like sound money, maximalist and Bitcoin is the one in like a matter of months. And I see this out of regular everyday people coming in too. And I think part of it is because of the quality, and I say this as I'm running a number go up, shitpost show right now. But the quality of material that's out there right now when it comes to like very thoughtful like Robert Breedlove and Parker Lewis style writing and people on podcasts and John your podcast in particular, you get like deep into the implications of Bitcoin.

And when people come to the table and they're presented with, they're presented with like defy bullshit, and then they're presented with like, here is a philosophical reason as to why this is important to society. They gravitate towards the more compelling argument. And I think that's an excellent thing. But I'll pass it off to Phil here and let him chime in a little bit too. Sure. Well, I'm just generally extremely bullish right now. I ran the numbers.

I have been chugging Red Bull all morning. I ate some Rocky Mountain oysters. And I'm taking a look at the huddle waves. And the network looks identical today as it did in 2016 when the price was $400,500. Bitcoin hoddlers are not getting out of bed for $16,000. We're not selling our Bitcoin. Some of the medium hands might be moving their coins around.

some of the one to two year coins might be moving a little bit, but the long-term holders, no, 16, went 100K. To some of the earlier conversations, so I just kind of reduce the level of critical thinking on this episode, but to some of the earlier points, yeah, I mean, I think what we see at Unchained Capital is especially since, you know,

the Michael Saylor and Micro Strategy news is companies are coming and asking about Bitcoin and we're talking to sort of board level members that are just waiting to be Orange-filled. They're ready. They just want to have a good reason to pass along. So we're in a lot of conversations with people that are coming to the conclusion that I think many of us

have come to early on much faster. And it's definitely thanks to the level of content that we have. John and Ben, you guys putting out awesome podcasts and yeah, working with, you know, Parker and other members of the Unchained team to write up the Gradually and Suddenly series and other good content. It all just helps. It's all, you know, high quality materials really does make an impact.

And it allows people to see what we've seen much quicker and then get on board. So things are accelerating. It's very exciting to see. Yeah, 100%. Now, I want to give, you know, everybody a chance to kind of drop their reason for being bold. and to riff on it. And we'll do that. I just want to say that everybody watching right now,

first of all, thank you for being here. But ways that you can help get this in front of more eyeballs is smash that like button on YouTube. Share it wherever you may like. And also jump in the chat because we're seeing, and I'm bringing out messages into the live stream here, Robin Banks says he, I will still buy at 100K for fuck sakes.

So loving the commentary from everybody. But thanks for joining in. Of course, smash the like button. Give it a share, retweet wherever you are. But I'm going to toss it to Adam first. And I'd love to hear what's got you bullish lately. Yeah, man. Just seeing the retail signs is kind of what's seeing me bullish.

Like I totally agree. Like, you know, kind of building off what you said earlier, Ben, about or maybe as John it said, something about the institutions kind of jumping in. And that's certainly the case. You know, what we saw, and this kind of just builds into how bullish I am, I guess, not necessarily why I'm bullish per se. But last bull run, we had all of the corporations kind of denouncing or kind of, you know, nobody was jumping in like how they are. I think that this, you know, one thing that might in my mind, what could happen is they might misappropriate this bull run because of the institutions. When in reality, this is just part of that mining cycle.

Like I don't know what what the three of you guys think. I think Ben and I kind of have chatted about this a little bit. But like it's just it's just Bitcoin being Bitcoin. And we're kind of getting to that time of the year and that time of the mining cycle where this is just like what's supposed to happen. And I think that people don't really truly realize that. And everyone is kind of like the retail people that come into our offices or that are, you know, my buddies or my acquaintances that are like texting me and kind of hitting me on Facebook or Twitter. and they're like, you know, what's happening? Is it because of the economy, you know,

Trump or Biden, which one affects the price of Bitcoin? I'm like, yeah, it like doesn't matter. Like it's Bitcoin being Bitcoin. And this is kind of just just how it works. This is the, this is true supply and demand economics. I think our world has been so far removed from that like unbiased, untainted economy for so long, that it's just like so foreign to people that like, what do you mean the money supply is going down? That's not how it's supposed to.

That can't be good, right? I said, no, that's actually very good. That's how money is supposed to work. And I think that now people, you know, when we used to talk to people talking about, you know, the world and the economy, well, we're in Canada. We're in the States. And our, our Fed is very strong. And our currency, yeah, Venezuela.

I mean, that was doomed forever. But, but we're so strong over here. And then now everyone's, oh, maybe it's not that strong, right? They're printing, you know, what is the? Trillions. Trillions. It's daily. Like, it's, it's, it's absolutely mind-blowing.

And so people with half a brain are now waking up and, and it's no longer a conspiracy theory. It's no longer like tinfoil hat. Like, okay, the world economy is going to crash. Like, no, no, it's just happening. And there is a sound money out there. And that's why I think people like Michael Saylor, like, they just wake up so fast because they're seeing it happen before their eyes.

And they're the first of like, it has to be a matter of time before guys like Buffett are just like, yeah, I was wrong. And like maybe Buffett's ego, like himself is his, his ego's too big, but like it's going to start happening where, I mean, I'm not sure, I've had my PayPal account, multiple PayPal accounts shut down because of crypto. And now I can like buy a derivative of crypto on PayPal. I think more of that stuff is going to continue happening. And that's kind of what like now, not the banks, but the, the kind of intermediary, you know,

multi-level banks are kind of jumping in. And that's kind of where I see like this is coming mainstream. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's funny you mentioned conspiracy things. theories and economy because just was it, I tweeted it like two weeks ago, but I was at the gym. And the girl working the desk used to be work at a bank. And she saw that I was into Bitcoin.

And then I said something about how, you know, I didn't think that deflation was a bad thing. And she's like, well, you don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. when people suggesting that a deflationary monetary system is conspiracy theory if I think it's good is we're still early is what I'm doing. We're still very early. That's wild because I had a 1% of people even like know what that means. To be frank like, you know, I'm surprised that even she took that track to it. Well, she was a pretty like that pretty little girl was from finance, right?

Like she should have known her stuff. She should have known how inflationary versus deflationary, like that's a big difference. She would she been like was that the spirit of the conversation? Yeah. Like she knew she knew fully what it was. Again, she understood. She went to she went to school and again like took like macro. But I think it's just a symptom of the education system and like the indoctrination of

Keynesian thinking that this is the only way that it could possibly be and anything outside of what we've experienced since 71 is is is insane so I don't know have you guys experienced similar similar things like maybe not to that level but yeah it's actually kind of funny I was when you were telling your story it reminded me of a person who came in to the office earlier this week and They're a former banker and this year just push them over the edge. They're like, I'm ready to tear this system down. Like, how do I help with Bitcoin? You know, how do I get started with Bitcoin?

Like, what do I do? How do I educate people? But they were just kind of, they looked at what was going on and they were feeling a little disgusted and they're ready to try something new. How about you, John? Anybody calling you a quack for flying the Bitcoin flag? lately? Not really. I mean, I've, I've been so into it for a while that like they kind of know to like anyone who's close to me knows to expect that stuff. If anything, I'm becoming more

vindicated now, right, as we all are, because it's, it's seeming to, we seem to be getting proven correct with each passing day. And so now people are kind of waking up and saying, well, maybe he wasn't so crazy and maybe, you know, I should have a sit down, a coffee, a dinner with them, and we should get into the details here. But, you know, regarding inflation and deflation, I think generally people understand the prices go up and that sucks for them. So like they've heard about inflation and we have an inflation mandate and all this kind of stuff. So people have a basic understanding of that, even though they don't, certainly don't consider it theft and they don't, you know, they don't really understand how it all work. Deflation, I would say most normal

people that haven't had any exposure to you know the finance or monetary or banking industry i don't think they know what what that even means you know i just think it's not part of their their lexicon it's not part of their understanding so you know even that when you when you broached that subject with people when you're having that kind of bitcoin heart to heart you know you can see the like the wheels slowly turning and you know it's um it's great ultimately if they're actually have an open mind to listening but that one one point on uh I think what Adam was saying about Buffett and the kind of bigger institutional guys coming in these days. You know, so NGU, I think, is what brings most people in.

And then they're in through the door and then they start learning more. But what I love about Bitcoiners in this space is shame is also a huge driver these days. With all the information that's out there, with all the breed loves, Parker Lewis's, great thinkers, writers, content, you know, your Raoul pals, your, Michael Saylars, Paul Tudor Jones is all, you know, talking about this stuff and describing, you know, how bullish they are about it. Like, and Bitcoiners will just take that as ammunition. And anybody who's, you know, negative on Bitcoin, they will just shame the shit out of you until, like, eventually you will bend and you'll say, like, I'm going to get involved in this now just so I don't have a giant.

Oh, no, right at the peak. I don't know. I was so excited about the giant something. What were you saying, John? Oh, sorry. Am I back? You're back. Yeah.

No, like they're going to take a position just because they don't want a giant egg on their face in three years because they know how many fucking remind me tweets and how many, you know, Bitcoin is just going to be tearing their limbs off for being so, you know, wrong on this. So I think the shame factor even applies to people, you know, like, you know, the biggest investors in the space are like, I don't want to be the one. that was wrong about this and suffer the reputational damage for it. It's okay, I'll put 1% or something. John, we call those spite coiner's where Bitcoiners don't need to be right, but they can't afford

to be wrong. Yes. My favorite thing on Twitter is when Bitcoin Tina tags on to some no-coiner, and his response is you will buy at a much higher price. It's always it's the best because just him saying that further postpones that person buying and like the vitriol they must feel for him saying you will buy at at multiples of the current price and no I won't and that it pushes it even further and then the person is going to buy even later and get even angrier at what point did they capitulate. Yeah, what I feel like capitulating lately I've noticed like you know the kind of vocal, uh, you know, people that were against it on Twitter. Like you see a lot of them now starting to capitulate.

So I think that'll continue. Yeah. What are you guys seeing? Like I've certainly seen a lot less people kind of challenging me on it. Maybe it's just my mindset, but there's a lot less kind of people challenging the idea or challenging the concept. I feel like it's kind of got a lot more validity from the eyes of a normie. And maybe I just, I think to your point, Phil, like I just really don't care what people

think. Like, you know, it doesn't really make a difference to me. Like, if you're going to buy Bitcoin, great, buy it. Otherwise, you know, you will buy at a much later price is like, great. I've seen that. That's phenomenal. Everyone will get Bitcoin at the price that they deserve. And what's kind of funny about that is for the really mega corporations and governments

and central banks, like Bitcoin, unfortunately, has to be worth like 100x from what it is today before it's going to be useful enough for those guys. So sorry, central banks and large, you know, apples of the world. world. We're going to have to make NGU quite a bit before Bitcoin will be useful for you guys. Yes. Yeah, 100%. I just saw a tower. I'll bring it up here. But I want to give a shout out to Swan, the Swan Bitcoin team, because there is now a 24-7 Bitcoin TV stream that goes. And I think John, some of your content is on there. I know they've been playing some of my content. I'm pretty sure this will be on there later, but hopefully, you know, assuming Brecky

likes what, uh, likes the circle jerk that is happening right now. But it's an awesome idea. It's awesome. Yeah, it's a great idea. 24-7 Bitcoin streaming TV. I can't imagine if I had access to that like in 2014, man. I wouldn't have, yeah. I don't know if I would have worked enough to have fed myself.

I may not be here today. But yeah, still, and again, it kind of beckons to the fact that we have so much more content available for new entrances into the space. At this point, ignorance is almost a choice. And I think that's going to help a lot of people this time around and hopefully allow people if they choose to make less mistakes. Some people can kind of leapfrog that pre-coiner, shit-coiner phase, hopefully, with some of this stuff. I don't know. So I wanted to ask a general question to everybody, but what do you think in the instance of an insane bull run like 2017, what would you see as being the differences this time around in terms of Bitcoin versus

everything else. Do you see there being another crazy shitcoin mania or do you see that less pronounced? Does the fact that institutions and companies are putting their treasuries into this stuff, does that make the focus more so on Bitcoin and everything else will have trouble keeping up? Or does the retail FOMO and things like PayPal adding a bunch of extra stuff in there, does that also pump everything because it's so illiquid? I think from my standpoint, I'm getting a lot less, you know, what else should I buy? I think people are a lot more comfortable buying Bitcoin and owning fractions of a Bitcoin. I think, John, you hit it on the head, Satoshi's has to be the unit of account.

So people kind of can get over. Like we all understand up in here in Canada, our money is colored. and brown is a $100 bill and blue is a $5 bill. Everyone understands that having three blues is a lot less valuable than having one brown. But for some reason, no one understands that having, you know, 0.1 Bitcoin is way better than having 10 million ether, regardless of price. That's all we need.

That's the standard. I think John is right. That's the standard. And one thing that I hope, too, happens is a lot less people, you know, where do I invest my Bitcoin? We're trained from early on that money is invaluable or like not valuable and you have to invest it. You have to give it away to someone else to manage it for you. And I saw that mentality a ton a few years ago.

And that's what people got scanned, right? Oh, look at the arbitrage. You know, my one Bitcoin turned into 1.2 Bitcoin and that's way better. And like obviously more Bitcoin is better than less Bitcoin. But giving it to someone else to do that is a lot more dangerous. And I think that the general like education and the general space, the content are in the space. like people holding their own coins and taking custody. Now PayPal totally just messes that whole,

that entire thought process gets thrown out the window with what PayPal's doing. But I do hope that people understand that taking custody of their coins is like the most important thing you can do in Bitcoin. And I think that mindset is coming through a lot clearer right now. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody want to tag onto that? Sure. I think it's kind of, it's funny.

A lot of the alt-coiners think, like, oh, I'm just waiting for alt season. But there will come a point in time where all season just doesn't happen because people are waking up and recognizing, wow, all of these alt currencies, we don't need them. They're not, you know, they don't provide value. They are speculative kind of, you know, they're worthless. They're shit coins. So people are kind of, I think a lot of the alt coin folks are waiting for that alt season.

and maybe this summer of defy was it. But if you look at the values of all these altcoins measured in Bitcoin, like they're not pumping. Like Ethereum is never going to hit an all-time high measured in Bitcoin again. Like that's just not going to happen, I don't think. So, yeah, I mean, I think people are jumping, you know, much sooner into Bitcoin from not having anything and then not leaving. I think part of that is because there's an influx of new,

companies that are Bitcoin only. The Bitcoin kind of only ecosystem is now large enough to support exclusive companies. So like at Unchain Capital, we're Bitcoin only. One of the things that I worry about this bull market is I kind of disagree with what Adam said a little bit is there's a lot of people who are chasing yield in Bitcoin. So these interest accounts by these companies that are like centralized and hold on to private keys. I think that's an area where we're going to see some, some pain during this bull market. That's the thing that in my mind is, I think, the most scary is people chasing yield

and giving up control of their private keys. And as we know, in Bitcoin, there's no security substitute to holding your own private keys. Yeah. I wanted to say that you were talking about alt season and when alt season, I think on a long enough time frame if you zoom out, regardless of the alt, it turns out that alt season is just a perpetual winter, really. Well done.

Well done. You can go live north of the wall. It's not pleasant, but. Actually, there's three Canadians. We're north of the ice wall. I was going to say, is Canada. Yeah, we can tell you it's cold north of the wall. Stay warm.

Now, I wanted to, I guess we'll dive over to John in just a sec, but I did want to say we have 110 live viewers right now. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. If you're there on YouTube, smash that like button. That really helps bump this video up in front of even more eyeballs. And, of course, give it a share, retweet it wherever you like. And I will continue to try and bring up your comments in the live chat. But John, let's move to you.

What has got you bullish as of late? Well, just to put a comment on the last conversation, I mean, as far as like what will this bull run look like? It's anybody's guess, of course. But I think so much has lined up. Like now the narrative of come in DCA, hold your own keys, and secure it properly. Like that is a very well established. Because before it's like, how do I get into this?

When should I buy? When should I time the market? kid and should I get in shit coins and stuff. And like all the noise has been sucked out of the room. So it's just like, it's an accumulation game. Buy regularly and secure it. Don't think about selling it for 10, 15, 20 year until you exchange it for an actual good or service, right? Don't even think about, you know, Bitcoin is now your unit of account. The only thing that matters is your nominal amount of Bitcoin, not the exchange value in whatever currency of your Bitcoin. right if you have 1.1 Bitcoin and then the next month you have 1.11 you're ahead that's that's the

way you want to go then you've got all the de-risking by the traditional players your sailors and tutor jones and stuff like that and then you've got the abundance of of amazing content where not only is it is all this content explaining what bitcoin is to people but it's become its own like real genuine like intellectual pursuit in itself where like we're kind of, I don't want to say we're breaking new ground, but it's like it's, if you're that type of person where you're just, you get intellectually stimulated by something novel and new, like the Bitcoin space can now offer that to you,

not just on, you know, in its traditional realms that it was playing in. So I think all of those things are making the narrative around it so simple and so apparent. Right. So, uh, and I had always,

my kind of base case, was like the next decade will be the decade where this becomes, you know, global money. Like sometime, you know, let's say that takes the next 10 years. And that still may be the case. But once the cat is really out of the bag here and the macro landscape is a part of forcing people to kind of put their spotlight on this space and learn a little bit more, it's almost sometimes i have a hard time thinking that it doesn't like really happen you know gradually then suddenly it doesn't happen really really fast because of all those variables like once

that that many people get it and like i know sailor came in and did something that's probably going to be atypical but i don't think like our assumption that people just have a one to two percent allocation like i don't think that's going to play out either i think you know when corporate treasuries come in and like over the next year or two like they'll probably be looking in the 10 to 20 percent range or possibly even higher so all this just to say it's so obvious to us like it's so damn obvious what this is going to be you know and i know that statement involves a lot of hubris and assumptions but like we're all placing our bets that that we're right and that you know this thing will persist and if it does like that obviousness I think is being picked up by people and if it's picked up by that

you know enough you know that that 10% 20% of global corporates of global people then it you know we just have this kind of watershed where it just washes away everything else and I know a lot of the infrastructure has to change in order for that to happen there's a lot of ingrained behavior and and stuff like that but just it just seems like a really you know set up landscape for rapid and dramatic change and so you know we haven't obviously we haven't seen anything yet i mean this last month was wonderful but uh it really seems like the tip of the iceberg so i'm bullish about that um i'm bullish on bitcoins that's always my default answer to this i mean i just continue to be impressed by the people in the space and how people are transforming the space i mean

like i mentioned it on my my show with sailor but i don't you know if you guys had the chance to to look for the last 10 years of videos on on YouTube. I mean, I don't think I saw a smile. The whole, you know, in these interviews and his presentations and stuff like that. And doing all these Bitcoin pods. I mean, he's grinning ear to ear for at least half the show. You know, he's clearly amped up as are all of we. You know, we are so we're energized by this. We're transformed by this. We're refining so many different things about our lives because of this. And so that makes me excited. You know, the fact that we're, we're integrating something and something is emerging that has so much positive beneficial effect for the empowerment of the individual and how it's

causing them to transform themselves for the better and how a group of people, like a cultural shelling point is emerging around that. And, you know, we're at the beginnings of a like a Nouveau Renaissance sort of thing. I mean, what could possibly be more exciting than that? I mean, it's, it's crazy. And then, well, the cherry on the top is the 100K party that's going down at Michael Sailor's house whenever we hit that mark. So that's what I'm bullish about. So you're the organizer for that, John. How many stats am I going to have to slip you under the table? How much, how many stats am I going to need to grease that bouncer to get in the door there? Yeah, I'll let you know. I'll let you know. I don't want to make that public. But,

But a couple of bitcoins per person should do it. Can you imagine being in a serious position right now of like someone who's full-time job is like absolutely not Bitcoin? It's running this, you know, billion dollar company. And he is like the biggest public Bitcoin cheerleader today. Like he's just totally like the middle of his day where like two months ago or maybe five months ago was spent like building his business and building the business that he's paid like an exuberant amount of money to run. is now spent talking to like, you know, bitquiners, which is like, if you think about what, what that means for his, and like, even just looking at the stock price, like, micro strategy has basically become a Bitcoin ETF.

And it is, it is incredible to see that happen, like, overnight and watch, you know, a very high profile CEO just totally blow off whatever else he was doing and just jump full time into like Bitcoin. And talking about cyber hornets and, you know, like maximalists and shit on the internet. I mean, what must his executive team and his staff think? Dude, his board. Like, what is the board of directors telling him? What I think is really interesting about micro strategy,

and maybe it's just 2020 in general, is at least in the Bitcoin space, I feel like there was a narrative shift, where it's like the micro strategy team made the case that Bitcoin is not a speculative investment. This is a defensive play for a corporate treasury, right? They had a $500 million problem on their hands, and the best solution that a team of finance experts came to was to put it into Bitcoin.

That's a defensive play. They're not trying to go out there and speculate. Like the 200-whatever plus million dollars that it's increased in value is icing on the cake. They were simply looking at the market and being like, holy shit, we have to put this somewhere. What do we do with it? And so when you have a team like the micro strategy team taking a look at all of the different options and landing on Bitcoin, like they had a $500 million problem. Like how big of a problem do you have today?

Right? Totally. Bitcoin, guys. And someone just mentioned in the chat and it bears repeating. It's like both Jones and Sailor and possibly others, when they articulated their reasoning and their rationale behind making this decision, they both identified the community, both as a resource and the kind of ethos and philosophies, and philosophy of the community.

And that was super cool to see because it wasn't just a financial decision. They're saying there's something really special about the group of people that's coalescing around this thing. And that gives us even more confidence that this is real and then it's got legs and all the rest of it. So again, you know, bullish on Bitcoiners. I wanted to touch on John when you were talking about how it changes people. And again, like I was talking about this the other day.

I can't remember who the original tweet was from, but somebody said something to the effect of, I think it was Brecky actually, Brecky Vaughn Bitcoin. I almost said Crypto Brecky. I'm sure he would have snapped my neck for that one. But anyways, so he said something to the effect of let me know how Bitcoin has changed you and changed your life. And I couldn't be more of a different person than when I first got into Bitcoin. And like I, so I, I haven't really ever, I guess, publicly shared this story. John, I messaged you about it, I think, a while back. Maybe not.

I can't recall. But so I've never been a good saver. I was never, ever a good saver. And I always kind of wasn't sure, sure why. but I think part of it early on, like when we first moved out to Calgary with my family, I was like six or seven. And we kind of hit like a kind of a rough patch. Like we couldn't afford things. At the time I didn't understand fully, but I remember like my aunt bringing over groceries for the family and my mom like breaking down crying.

And I just didn't understand what was going on, like why that was happening. And I remember at one point, I had been saving my allowance for like a long time. And I was trying to, as a kid, trying to get into a habit of saving so that I could buy a bicycle. And I finally got to whatever it was, like 100 and something bucks. And I kept on pestering my mom and, you know, my parents, it's time. Now I can go get a bicycle. I can go to get a bicycle. And it turned out they had to buy groceries with it.

And I think, and like, you know, I was crushed, but at the same time, like, in, you know, looking back in hindsight, I understand. I understand, like, we had to eat, you know, they had to take care of the family. But it instilled this, this, like, absolute deterrence of saving in me. And I think I brought that forward through, through high school and into my, like, younger adult life. And, and again, no fault of anybody. it was just tough times called for desperate measures. But what finally flipped that switch for me to get me back on that track was Bitcoin. The money, the incentive structure of Bitcoin was such that it completely changed this ingrained habit formed over 30 years of my life.

And it changed it like that. It was a snap. And I just, even though I didn't understand why it was happening, I was saving. And I was putting away money. And I was able to actually look and say, okay, well, I've got to pay for this and that and I've got bills and everything. But I should put some aside. And that developed more and more over time. And now I'm a completely different person.

I look at my expenses day to day. And now I'm like as all in as you can get because I, I literally the majority of my income is Bitcoin. And I was worried about making that shift initially because I was like, oh, no, I'm going to normalize spending it. And then I'm going to go back to my old ways. But the opposite has happened because when I get paid in Bitcoin, I'm looking and I'm going, this money actually has value. How much of this do I actually want to spend? Do I need this?

Do I need that? And I, my, I've completely shifted my framework through which I operate my entire life. and now I'm much more likely to plan for the future. And that has transcended beyond just like monetary, but like into health. I take much better care of myself. I'm conscious of what I eat. I go to the gym. It does really shift and change you.

And so, John, to your point, I'm bullish as hell on the implications this means for, for people's behavior as a whole across the globe as we hopefully shift towards a Bitcoin standard. I don't know, Phil, like, have you, has Bitcoin changed you in certain ways like that? Absolutely. And before I answer that, what I was thinking about when you were sharing your story, it was one of the most disgusting and despicable things about the legacy system in central banking to me and inflation, is the price of groceries increasing, right? As we get better at production and producing food and higher quality goods, the prices of groceries and food should be decreasing over time.

We can make food. It's not difficult. An egg is an egg, right? But the fact that the cost of an egg has increased this year 20%, 30%, that's exclusively because of central banking. And it's pushing people into a really tough position. So like for me, you know, that's one of the most disgusting things I think about the fiat economy and inflation is like it makes people's just basic needs cost a lot more. But anyways, talking about myself and how I have changed.

You know, I was decent at saving before, but it didn't really, it wasn't something that I consciously thought about. Bitcoin has totally changed that about me. Now I really think about savings. I really think about making purchases, and it's like, do I really need this purchase? Do I want to save Bitcoin? I think it's going to increase in value. And it's made my consumption habits, I think, more, more, I don't want to say necessarily responsible, but yeah, like I think a lot more about what I'm going to be buying. And then as far as like, you know, other areas of my life, like, I think exercise has definitely taken a higher priority in my life since I got into Bitcoin and, you know, spending time with friends and family.

Yeah, awesome. Now, since you got the mic, Phil, I'm going to move on to your reason for being bullish. But again, just before I dive in, we've got 134 people watching live right now. So thank you all for joining us. Smash that like button. That'll help get this in front of more people. And be sure to like retweet, share wherever you like. And Phil, I'll toss it to you. What particular for you has you bullish as of late? Well, I was thinking about this before the show, and really John's episode with Michael Saylor had me thinking about a lot of different things. In the episode, which I recommend everybody listen to, Saylor talks a lot about how Bitcoin kind of fixes monetary energy, or it allows people to unlock the true potential of monetary energy.

And in the past, throughout human history, whenever we've discovered like a new type of energy or a, have been able to unlock it, it has made humans, you know, exponentially better off. And throughout history, we've struggled with approximations of currency. We haven't had true real money until Bitcoin because everything up until Bitcoin isn't truly scarce. And that's what digital scarcity brings to the table is that because it's digital, it is actually scarce. So unlocking that potential of being able to effectively store your time and energy

and then be able to convert it into goods and services in the future without losing any of your life essence really is going to just make us so much more effective as a civilization. And in a lot of ways, too, it connects us. So what's really interesting to me about working in Bitcoin is, I feel like a lot of my coworkers are distributed around the world, whereas before, maybe not so much. You know, I was working with people in my community. But because we now have this shared global language of value, we can easily connect and relate to people of different cultures, speaking different languages all over the world.

I agree. If John or Adam, if you want to tag onto that, I can let you take the mic a bit. Yeah, I think that it certainly has shown me just how how connected the world can be. Like it's shocking to think that even the four of us chatting in real time, you can see us face to face. But like until Bitcoin, there was no easier apparent way to send any of you, any money, which is kind of like sad if you think about it. It made it the borders that the, you know, legacy finance system has kind of has has had on the world for so long is is so sad. It's just, there's no way to put it. It's just sad.

It's just sad that even, um, even the, the lack of caring, the, the lack of people wanting to get together and have the world open up for like this like, you know, worldwide economy, um, is, is, is, is very, very disappointing in the, in the legacy finance system. And Bitcoin just does that like effortlessly. Like it's, it's not even like, you know, it's like an afterthought for Bitcoin, but it does it so well. It's it really I mean Bitcoin for me is just like the best form and the best issuance of supply and demand kind of economics and a in a true free market and it's just so interesting to see that. It's it's interesting because you know money kind of serves as like this measuring stick for value and what people value. But then we've got what 180 different types of measuring sticks around the world and all of those measuring sticks are changing in size.

you know, larger and larger over time. So we just have like no, no easy consensus for value of anything. And all the sudden, Bitcoin drops in and it's global. And it offers this, this irrefutable measuring stick that the world is just starting to realize how to use. And it transcends global borders. You can just look to it. And I mean, I guess the US dollar was kind of that measurement. with all its debasement, but it was the kind of best that we had, you know, barring the gold standard,

which people didn't measure things in gold. But now we have this decisive reference for actual value. And it's interesting to see that play out. I mean, to us, it's in slow motion, but it's happening very quickly. Totally. Yeah. I think what's, you know, I like all of you. you look at the existing state of affairs and what they've been in the past.

And when you compare it to something like Bitcoin, you're just like, oh my God, it's so broken. What you've got in these national currencies or in paper currencies in generally, and this is the terminology that Saylor used in our discussion is like, you know, in thermodynamic terms, you've got closed systems and open systems. And what you've got with these currencies that can be inflated to infinity and can, you know, there's so much perversion and intervention and manipulation, you got these open systems that as you say Ben are trying to be a consistent measuring stick but have no ability to do so and you know what bitcoin does is it creates a closed system so that the data loss and the

energy loss is is non-existent effectively so that you can actually use it for a proper measuring stick and then you know what you have on top of that is the siloing of all these open systems so you got all these open shitty systems with with data information and power loss and And then you've got them all each siloed so that even to the degree that they serve as any ability to measure anything, they can't interoperate very easily. There's so much friction to that interoperability. And so what Bitcoin does is it's a closed system that maxim, you know, that minimizes that data loss. And it's open to everybody on the same terms.

So just, I mean, like it's so exciting to think what that's going to net for global trade and global savings and global. commerce and finance and the economic systems that would be built on top of that when you have a consistent measuring stick and a frictionless means of using it across the entire globe for everybody. I mean, like if we think anything about our existing paradigm is positive, and surely we each have our bright spots, whether it's technology or whatever we're into, thinking about what that will become and in how many different domains will have things that we're excited. about and happy about as a result of a system like that is like it boggles the mind to even think about and to be honest I don't think if if the change were to happen hypothetically

tomorrow I don't think you know it would take very much time for things to readjust I mean look how quickly each of us are adjusting our economic behavior and our social behavior and our other behaviors towards ourselves because we have a mechanism like this now we have a tool like this now so I you know I know that's not how it's going to go. It is going to take a bit of a longer process to unfold. But I think this change that we keep talking about and imagining could happen quite quickly once the cat is out of the bag and once the new system is established. We start seeing the fruits and the extreme benefits of that system pretty quickly.

And just to the last point about the conversation about individual transformation, You know, I talk about it a lot and I like to explore, you know, the reasons behind it because it's quite a phenomenon. But one that Ben, when you, or Ben and Phil, both when you gave your examples, and it's a simple one, like the time preference and the frugality thing, right? Like, of course, you'd rather, you know, have SATs than the PlayStation so you don't buy the PlayStation. And that's a pretty easy one to get. But if you feel back the onion a little bit more, I think it's like you kind of covet this thing that is Bitcoin now because you feel certain things about it that you can't even really. articulate like you just know that it's more even special than you can identify in your mind so you're you and then you look at a playstation you say well do i covet you know the bitcoin more or

the playstation more and you know you can make those decisions but just to use a simple example like well they can make as many stations as they want and that'll break over time and that'll you know whatever drawbacks but when you say when you so you're making this comparison between bitcoin and whatever this other thing is is. And I think one of the reasons why it's having such kind of, I hesitate to use the term, but like wholesome changes on people is because you look at your Bitcoin, you say, now I don't want all that crap, but you say, well, is it like when you compare, you know, Bitcoin to your health or, you know, time with family or dedicating it towards things that

you'd believe to be beautiful? Well, then like the compare, there's, there's less of a contrast between those two. It's like more aligned almost. So like yes, it's worth your time to go to the gym and refine your body, let's say, or treat it better or spend time with loved ones. Like that seems you know, that seems like a better trade than trading it for, you know, some junk, you know, something that's going to cloud up your mind or your living space. So it's, I, you know, I know that was a little bit wordy, but I just love to try to dig deeper on what this relationship that we have what this thing is and what kind of changes it's inspiring. So, you know, and I think like Mike said in the interview again, like, yeah, I mean, for junk, it doesn't seem worthwhile to let go

or your sats, but for things that are beautiful and things that are like deeply meaningful, like your loving relationships, like your, you know, your health, like, you know, wherever other domains where you find beauty, well, then, yeah, you know, it's, that's what it's for. It's there to facilitate, you know, you engaging in those things more. Because that's really what life is about, right? I mean, dying with a shitload of Satoshi's. I mean, I know maybe we all want to have like a lineage and a legacy and, you know, populate galaxies someday. But, you know, while you're living, it's about those really core things that give you the most meaning and satisfaction and joy. And that's, you know, that's those things that you can't, you can't really buy. So, yeah, I love that. I'm taking this,

I'm taking this as your advice to forgo the PlayStation to buy a new bike. I like that. Whatever it fills your heart with joy, Phil. All right. Yes. Yes, 100%. Well, guys, I'm going to, I think that's a good kind of note to start wrapping up on. First of all, thank you guys for joining me.

I had a blast having some bullish chat, and we even got a little philosophical here, which I enjoy. That's a great reason to be bullish. Everybody in the chat, thank you. so much for coming. We've got like 150 live viewers right now, which is super awesome. If you're just getting here, this will be on YouTube to be able to be played back after the fact. But do smash that like button because it gets in front of more people and give it a share. I'm just going to go guess by guess really quick. And when I call your name, just again let people know who you are

and where they can find you. And also just a quick note to everybody, the links to their Twitter profiles are in the show notes. So Adam, take it away first. Yeah, I'm Adam O'Brien at hi, Adam Obie on Twitter. And our website, BitcoinSolutions.ca, is where you can check us out. Awesome. John, go ahead. Yeah, guys, John Valis, at John K. Valis on Twitter, Bitcoin Rapid Fire podcast. That's it. Great to speak with you guys this morning. Awesome. And Phil, take it away. Yeah, you can find me at at Phil underscore Geiger on Twitter or email me at Phil at Unchained-Captial.com. I'd love to teach you how to use multi-sig for both you and your business. No longer do businesses have to rely on centralized third parties.

You can now, as a company, hold your own private keys and Unchained Capital is your full service financial partner. So check us out at our website. We'll help you get set up. We'll teach everything you need to know. Awesome. Gentlemen, thank you so much. I'm going to start getting rid of your windows here,

but I will see you again all very soon. I definitely hope, so thank you guys. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for having us. Cheers. Bye. All right, everybody, thank you so much for watching and or listening.

You may be listening on the pod after the fact. I had a lot of fun chatting with these guys. I hope you enjoyed it. The chat was blowing up. Again, 150 live viewers, and I've seen people come and go all through. Of course, if you want to help out the show, you can always, of course, like, subscribe, and share those help big time.

If you want to hit up the sponsors, as I mentioned before, that was Leden, Crypto Cloaks, Cobo, and Bit Refill. All those links are in the show notes as well. And if you really liked what you saw, you can always drop me a Lightning Network tip at my tippin.m-me page. That is t-I-p-p-in.comme slash at BTC sessions. With that, I'm out. Have yourselves a wonderful day, a wonderful evening, wherever you may be. See you next time for your daily session.