BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Brian Solstin, Brad Mills, Adam Meister ep213

Episode Date: November 6, 2021

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Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. We've got some fine gentlemen on the show this week to discuss what has us fired up this week. Very excited to have them all. One of them, I have been on his show many, many times in the past. And this is, I don't know what I was thinking, but this is his first time on Why,

Are we bullish? I don't know what the hell's wrong with me. But it was long overdue. Glad to have them. And a couple other gents that I'm also very excited to chat with here. But before I get ahead of myself, of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my good friend Bill here.

We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. Yeah. You never know if something's going to break, so hopefully not.

Anyways, if you haven't already, of course, hit that like button, subscribe, share, all that good stuff. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Now, before we bring in our guests, of course, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. I'm pulling up the Bitbo.com. We're sitting at $61,190 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up $1,600. 34 sats, 89.83% of all Bitcoin have in mind. That'll be 90 before the end of the year.

And in terms of fees, pretty low right now, two sats per byte next block. Anything longer than 30 minutes, one sat per bite will do you. Good time to, you know, move around some coins if you need to, get some things in cold storage, maybe open some lightning channels, coin join, whatever tiggles your fancy, probably a good time. Of course, shout out to sponsors to the show, shakepay.com. If you're stacking stats in Canada and you're not using shake pay, what are you doing? This is the easiest way to do it. Also, they just up their referrals, I think just for the week.

So if you're looking for some extra sats, if you sign up using the link below and you buy your first hundred bucks for the Bitcoin, $30 referral bonus. Those are some extra sats there. And also, if you're for a friend, you can shake your phone every day and get free sats. And if you got to get on a streak, the number of stats per day goes up. So check them out. Links are down below. Leaden.com, of course, you can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different services.

If you don't want to sell your Bitcoin, but you need to get your hands on dollars. Of course, you can deposit Bitcoin, get a loan of dollars to your bank account with the 24 hours. You pay back those dollars. You get back the same number of sets, which is the important number. They, of course, have savings accounts, B2X offering, all that stuff. Check them out. I do live on Bitcoin. Bit refill helps me a lot with this.

Every gift card you can imagine. and you can buy them with Bitcoin on chain or Lightning Network, which I always use. You also earn Sats back as you shop, so check them out. In regards with hardware, you guys know, Keystone, my fave, air-gapped goodness. Basically, you never plug the thing into anything internet connected. Keys are kept safe and away from devious internet connections. And it works with all my faves, Blue Wallet, Wasabi, Spectre, Sparrow, all those good wallets. Pretty good in a multi-sig, too.

And finally, if you're backing up any important Bitcoin wallet, of course, steel might be a better option than paper fire damage want of damage you guys know the drill check him over at privacy pros dot io and i'm going to stop ranting here i'm going to bring in some some of my guests uh so welcome brian brad and adam i'm very excited to have you guys on the show let's just do a quick down the line and get some intros uh brian can you can you let people know who you are and what you do yeah i'm uh bryan solston and and studying Bitcoin, mastering Bitcoin, and I'm very into studying Lightning Network. I'm very much interested in, you know, peer-to-peer networks.

And so I'm really getting into the Lightning Network. It's the most amazing software out there right now. Awesome. I'm very excited to have you. You also wrote a book. You're too humble to mention it. But it just arrived. So I'm about to dive in.

I'm very excited to take a way. Yeah, that book is a personal narrative. of why I went down the rabbit hole. And so it's not a hardcore get orange field kind of book. There's some other books I would probably recommend, but that's a personal narrative of why I went down. Awesome. Well, I'm excited to dive in.

It looks pretty interesting to me. So I'm glad that we got chatting. Let's keep going down the line, though. Adam, this is long overdue. I cannot, can I get like a hello everyone or strong hand or something? I need something from you. Hello. This is the Bitcoin Meister.

I'm the Bitcoin. The disruptmeister. And BTC. Benny, BTC sessions, whatever you want to call him, okay? The Calgary,

the Calgary dude. Brett Hart, we are together. Again, we are together so much on the internet as you refer to you. You've been on my show

many times. I've been on other shows of yours. I've been on now on this show. We have embraced each other in person. Yes. People really meet in person still. Oh, yes. I love this man in an internet type of way, okay?

So I've been doing, I did my first show back in 2013. I bought my first two Bitcoin back in 2013. I never sold a freaking Bitcoin. So that's probably why I'm so freaking happy right now, people. Buy and hold. You thought it was a freaking joke. You'll like when I drag the Lamborghini for your front lawn, baby. Hell, that, like one.

But seriously, I love Bitcoin. I love getting, waking everybody. here. I'm a unique beast and yeah, go to coinbeast.com too. They're pretty cool dudes, but I'm disruptmeister.com and tech bought on Twitter. It is a pleasure to freaking be here. I'll let everybody else.

I don't, Brad, Brad, how in the hell are you going to follow that up? Oh, man. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for letting you go. Third. All right, I'm, I'm Brad Mills that doesn't have as much energy as Adam right now. But I'm also

an early bitcoiner. and have a podcast that nobody listens to. And what I've been doing lately is investing some of my Bitcoin stash that I've been hobbling for a while that I didn't lose on Mount Gox or gamble away on shitcoins in the 2014 and 2017 bubble into Bitcoin businesses. And like trying to support Bitcoin entrepreneurs, making some content recently helped produce this machine greens, which is a documentary about Bitcoin mining and the truth behind the energy conversation about Bitcoin. So that's what I'm doing lately,

trying to do my part to influence folks in the entrepreneurial circles I run in on why Bitcoin's the thing to pay attention to and kind of direct them towards the signal of Bitcoiners and Bitcoin content. Awesome. Well, I'm so glad to have all of you, as per usual, stellar panel here.

They're very excited to get rolling with this. So those people watching that are unfamiliar with, why are we bullish? Really simple. We go by the three hours. Effectively, somebody's going to give a reason why they're bullish. Then all together,

we will riff on that reason. And then we'll rotate to the next person, three hours, really easy. So I'm going to, I'm going to get us kicked off here. And so I'm going to bring up a topic that, that I've just found kind of interesting.

I'm still in the midst of, diving into it and experimenting with it. And it's always weird when I bring up these topics because oftentimes, even it's so kind of new that the, even the panelists might be like, I don't know. I haven't played with that yet. But I'm interested right now in state chains. Oh, yeah, me too.

Yeah. So state chains are interesting. I guess I mean as well. show my screen. The reason I started looking at this is because now there's there's actual like easier wallets to to utilize for state chain. So I've been looking at mercury wallet and I'm starting to learn about it. So I don't know. How do I how do I describe state chains? It's so with with lightning network you lock up Bitcoin and and you can transact off chain with with Bitcoin that you yourself still control.

And so this cuts down on fees. It cuts down on bloat on the Bitcoin blockchain. It makes it transactable as simple as cash, which is great. Now, on the other side of things, there's the idea of coin join. And so coin join effectively allows you to to swap ownership of UTXOs or rather combine UTXOs with others. so there's no clear link between you and your coins. And so that can help preserve privacy.

State chains is kind of a bit of a mishmash of that in that you're creating specific size UTXOs of Bitcoin, specific little pieces of Bitcoin. And then rather than doing on-chain transactions, you're swapping the keys that own those specific UTXOs. So the transactions effectively do not, there's no transaction. Like virtual open dimes. Yeah, exactly.

Virtual open dimes. That's a great comparison, which I just did a tutorial in open dimes, like this week. But it's crazy. So you basically, it's a multi-sig. So there's,

the tradeoff here is it's not fully trustless in that there's got to be, some sort of a coordinator type thing because it's a multi-sig between you and the coordinator over ownership of that particular UTXO and when you swap UTXOs with somebody else, the coordinator, my understanding is that they obviously cannot, they can't move the coins independently of you. And so they basically swap the two keys that would control the UTXOs. So basically you just hold a different key to a different piece of Bitcoin.

But every single one of them has a time lock where once it times out, then you can move it without the coordinator's help and just withdraw it. Otherwise, you can get the coordinator to sign the other half of the transaction and remove your UTXOs. But again, it reduces bloat on the Bitcoin blockchain. It basically turns Bitcoin into set amounts. So imagine like instead of a $100 bill, you have like a $100,000 SAT UTXO that just stays like that. And it's basically coin join without fees free and instant. So this is pretty wild.

I am still diving in. I'm still trying to understand the tradeoffs fully, the possible attack vectors, but pretty wild. And apparently, this is an article from Rubin Sobson from two years ago, but you can do lightning network within a state chain, and you can also settle the state chain into a regular lightning channel, which is, I'm not really, I tried to read this.

You can break the virtual open dime into a lightning channel? Yes. And you can also have effectively a lightning channel within, in the virtual open dime. So you own part of the virtual open dime. Cool. You can swap lightning channels inside of the state chain transactions. Yes.

And my, my, my brain is melting, trying to understand all this stuff, but it's very, very interesting. And I plan on on playing with it. I plan on doing a video once I can wrap my head around Mercury

wallet. It's still in beta. It's early days. But I don't know, guys. Like this kind of stuff just, everything seems to, now that we've gotten past the hurdle of getting Segwit in and we've started to actually build on top of Bitcoin,

there's so much stuff happening. I almost, I like, I cannot keep up. And so I don't know. Like, what are you guys thoughts on this or just second layer in general? Um,

feel free to chime in. I'm just so pleased that layer two is much more than some theoretical stuff that it used to be. And we had all these haters. saying, oh, my alt-coin can do this. Bitcoin is a dead chain. There's nothing innovative on Bitcoin. And we would always say there's second-layer solutions are coming second. So here we go.

You get this freaking awesome real-life second-layer solution that plays, that gets into the realm of being a little bit of anonymous type of stuff, which I like also. So it's very exciting. It's a slap in the face to the people who say it's for old. It's the old man chain. There's no innovation. Not that I can't say. Not that I care to say, but there's so much that can be done on something that does seem so basic.

I mean, Bitcoin was the original. This second layer stuff is freaking amazing. And the way you described it, I got to give you guys credit, it was a virtual open dime. That really explains it well for someone who gets it. So good job. I always love innovation. And I always love to see that even though I am not a tech guy, that the innovation could be quite hardcore on something that is not as complicated as Ethereum.

I mean, people always say, oh, you can build so much on Ethereum. Look, this is something that's needed right now on Bitcoin is involved with being anonymous. So very good stuff. Very good. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm super excited about it. You know, the reason why I got excited about Bitcoin originally is because I was, you know, I'm from the old school when Internet was growing 25% a month, you know, I was part of a

search engine company at that time. And, you know, I was excited about the internet and it was going to be decentralized and offer privacy and information at your fingertips and all that stuff. But let's face it, it has been centralized. We've lost a lot of our privacy, you know, thanks to some of the weakening of privacy by the U.S. government, but also, you know, Beijing's CCP has been very, you know, and their great firewall has centralized in a big way what the Internet did promise. And Bitcoin on the Lightning Network, in combination, are going to bring that back.

They're going to bring that vision back and make it real for everybody. So, yeah, Lightning Network, what's going on. I'm trying to get all these concepts, you know. Like when you had that screen and you started talking about, or you didn't talk about it, but I saw it on the screen, L2. You know, that's something I'm trying to get my arms around right now. This is all so new, moving so fast. It's wonderful.

We've got our work cut out for us, I think. That's for sure. How about you, Brad? What's your, what's your? Man, I love this stuff. And this is, this is what, because that triggers me as well when you see a lot of people saying like lightning network doesn't work. Nobody's using it. Look, it can't do smart contracts.

You hear a lot of this kind of triggers me, but also makes me so happy because I know that they're just going to miss out on the Bitcoin run. Because they're sleeping on Bitcoin. They're sleeping on Lightning. network. Their bags are packed with all these stable coins farming, 20% APY or whatever, and they got all these layer one coins. And they're just thinking, I'll eventually go back into

Bitcoin because it's a better store of value than all these coins. But they just think it's boomer coin. It's just store value. Can't do anything. Meanwhile, there's literally hundreds of developers working on these amazing second layer technologies on Bitcoin, privacy improvements,

wall, it's companies, businesses, mining improvements. It's just really impressive and heartening to see there's so much activity and so much creativity happening still. And like I've been trying to pay more attention to Ruben Sompson and Jeremy Rubin, both of those guys because they're doing state chains, trust chains, I think is the other one

and some other chain of some sort that like this is all bleeding edge stuff. And it requires some changes to Bitcoin, which is some of it does. some of it doesn't. So some of the stuff like Jeremy Rubin's doing this Opsi TV thing, which will somehow improve privacy on federated side chains. And Opsi TV has been like in discussion for like a year and a half now.

And it seems to have consensus. It's like a pretty easy change to make to Bitcoin. And, you know, it's going to take a little while for this stuff to make it to Bitcoin. but it is really impressive to see that this is happening on Bitcoin. And eventually, if there's a use case for DAPs and all that stuff to be normal people to use it, we'll have the ability to do it on Bitcoin. And most of the people who are haters and doubters on it will just be stuck in their, you know,

coins that are trending to zero against Bitcoin. That's the way I think it's going to work out anyways. Yeah. It seems to be it the way it's going. What was it? impervious.AI. They had a hackathon a while back, which is basically building a layer on top of lightning network.

So you got Bitcoin as base layer of value. Lightning network as base layer transactional layer. And then they're building applications on top of that. And some of the stuff that came out of that was just mind bending. Being able to not only do things like messaging apps over lightning network, but actual like you could place a phone call that gets routed through the lightning network and is entirely on lightning

and there's no record of that call ever be existing. I saw that that there was like somebody who could build phone calls on. Yeah, it was called. How does that work, you know? It was called red phone and I don't know. Like it's, it's, I mean, really, you're just, you're sending data and when, when the data itself is,

is, uh, does, does, doesn't cost anything. thing like you're not using the Bitcoin blockchain, then then feasibly if you're part of a network, then you should be able to send that data over any any network, right? So I yeah, they did that. They did they did file transfer over lightning network, which actually took, took advantage of atomic multipath payments, a amp. And so they were able to take a file, split it into a bunch of tiny little files spread out through all of these different payment channels and then reconvene on the destination and reconstruct the file via Lightning Network without the need for a token, may I say.

That's wild, man. Like that, that's awesome. Because, like, there is some things that are being done in the wider, like, cryptovirce that are kind of interesting. Like IPFS is something that a lot of Bitcoiners kind of like look at. IPFS is cool. But then they went and they added file. to it, which is like an incentive model for people to like mine file coins using IPFS,

but you don't need file coin to use IPFS. And I was on a dev call a couple of days ago. I'm not a developer myself. I'm not like really that technical, but I like to try to like do my best to keep up with things. And there was an RGB call. And they're talking about the latest developments in RGB. And for those that don't know,

RGB is a second layer on top of lightning network. or interoperable with Lightning Network that allows the ability to do colored coins like assets. So you could do tether or NFTs or whatever you want on Lightning Network and it interop, it rides on a Lightning Network. And this thing that they figured out

was how to do this Bifrost thing and this Storm Protocol on top of Lightning Network that allows IPFS style file storage and retrieval on the Lightning Network. So that's two projects that we're looking at now that are talking about doing pretty crazy shit on top of Lightning Network and Bitcoin. That doesn't have a focus.

So yeah, you don't need tokens to get this done. Yeah, exactly. I was just going to say when anybody's not talking, apparently there's background noise that the audience is getting. So if you're not talking, there's a little mute button at the bottom

and then that will cut down on it. Brian, Brian's going to mute himself. Brian's got to mute himself. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no worries. Awesome. Sorry, Adam, you were saying. It's interesting you bring up IFPS. I keep, I keep hearing a lot about it. And I think the issue is it's, it's difficult for a regular person to use IFPS or what I might be busy. IPFS or initials backwards. And that the, that coin that you mentioned file coin is, is a way to get people to do it for you. you to incentivize them.

So something could be intertwined with Bitcoin. I'm sure there could be some second layer solution that could make it easy for Bitcoiners to interact with IFPS. I think this is part of, indeed, anyone can use IFPS? I just don't think there's like an easy way to enter. I mean, who wants to, who wants to host, to be a host via IFPS? You want to somehow get someone to do it for you. So I think that's what Filecoin does.

and incentivizes people to do it for you, to store your information for you. And I'm sure something with Bitcoin can be intertwined with that. And that is, again, that is the beauty of these second layer solutions. And so many people just don't want to dive anywhere. And people only have a certain amount of time during the day. They see Bitcoin is boring. So they don't want to, you know, know about the second layer solutions. And it can be complex.

All this can be very complex. But it is great to hear. And I do want to point out with someone said, coin join without the fees. If what Benny describes is really coin join without the fees, then this is quite innovative and something a lot of people would want to use. Yeah, absolutely. I'm definitely going to be playing around with it.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I love the idea of obfuscating things and confusing the hell out of chain analytics or what a chain alias or whatever the various chain analytics companies. chain analytics companies. But I mean, this is like a whole other level. Like there's just, it could be questionable who owns anything at all at any point. Literally like Brad said, virtual open dimes pretty awesome. So very excited about that.

Let me just add one more thing about impervious AI. What they're doing is, I think is very pioneering. We've got Bitcoin, you know, that's a zero one. are really Bitcoin and Lightning Network and Liquid Networks. I mean, really, they're all together. They're really good zero to one. Improvius AI, they're really getting to the one to many innovation. And there's going to be thousands of players in that space in the future.

This is just the beginning. Yeah, I would echo that, absolutely. Also, I really like that book, Peter Thiel, zero to one. I think that's a good read. So I think that rounds at that topic. pretty well. Oh, yeah, Adam. One more thing. It's something that was just said that inspired me. In terms of getting into Bitcoin, in terms of it's going up in value, we've gotten to a point where it's no longer early. Okay. It's it's no longer early. I mean, you can't, I mean, Michael

Saylor's into it. All these banks own it, et cetera, et cetera. But in terms of the technology being developed on top of Bitcoin, yes, it is very early in that. Someone just said that. And that was very inspirational to me because we can still claim one aspect of Bitcoin is still super early, and that is that second layer, second layer stops. So very, very good, whoever said that. Yeah, yeah. It's just in terms of Bitcoin as a global, on its road to a global store of value, you know, we're getting further down that road. We're early-ish, but still like the people don't realize how much, as we just discussed, how much can happen on top of Bitcoin. And so they're discounting all of that value.

And that's going to be a slap in the face to a lot of people, I think. So yeah, let's round out that topic. I think that one was a good little combo here. I think let's keep it rolling. We're going to move on to our next reason for being bullish. Of course, everybody in the chat, I see you guys. Keep those comments coming. And, of course, smash that like button.

Give this a share, all that good stuff. we're going to jump over to Brian. And I know you want to be talking about what you're not only has you excited this week, but kind of in a broader sense. What has you quite excited about Bitcoin and how it's affecting the world and some of the implications? I'm going to let you kind of run with it. And once you get your thoughts out, you just open it up to us. So Brian, you can take the stage here.

And don't forget to unmute. Yeah, you know, I think the signposts happening this week is what gets me excited. But that opens up, you know, there's a lot of unpacking to do on that. And that is we've got China's interest rates on their bonds are spiking. Australia, they aren't defending. Central Bank is not defending their bonds. It also spiked CDS, the credit default soaps on Turkey. They're going up.

It costs more for them to get bonds, to issue bonds over in Turkey. Turkey, you know, I wouldn't be surprised of Bond as another Lebanon in a couple years from now. It could happen. So these are the signposts that are happening. We're, like, okay, we're starting to hit. We might be hitting an inflection point where we go to what I call, I call it my user case number 16. Okay. And I want to give a little bit of background on this.

I was down in El Salvador for about five weeks. I was just using lightning network and so on. And right at the very beginning of that, the Minneapolis Federal Reserve President, he says, he was talking about crypto. He says, I've not seen any use case other than funding illicit activities like drugs and prostitution. And I thought, is this guy purposely trying to be ignorant? Purposely trying to be ignorant? And so I spent about every day, I would work on use cases for Bitcoin. And it turned out I was trying to get them very separate from each other, very distinct.

And I got 16. I wrote them down on my website, zenimal.xy-z. And truth is, I still have overlap between 1-3 and 16. But today, for this week, I really wanted to just talk about through the lens of 16, which is the use case is flips the incentive from exponential Kinsian. consumption to savings and consumption. And that's when you start to see these bonds go up, fiat's inflation, you know, in other words, fiat is devaluing.

The bonds are devaluing. Their devaluations are truly accelerating. You know, this freight train has been going down the rail for 50 years and we're running out of rail now. So yeah, if you go all the way to 16, that's the one that I'm looking at. And I know I still have some overlap on one and three. I don't know if I'm going to be changing this anymore. But I worked on this almost a little bit each day when I was down in El Salvador

just to try to get 16. I didn't care if it was 161 or 20. I was just trying to get distinct use cases for Bitcoin and like network. So one thing that's happening is, you know, this Kinseyan manipulation is happening not only the United States, but it's even happening in Japan. I mean, I read today or yesterday that central bank is what, or they're going to issue, what, $800 to Japanese that are under the age of 18, I believe? I mean, it's like they cannot get anything to cause stimulus. In other words, the United States drops trillions of dollars into the economy and the velocity of money is flat.

It doesn't happen like it used to. It's getting worse because we have a debt to GDP ratio of 130%. And so, yeah, they dump a bunch of money in there. You know, back in the day when we didn't have this debt to GDP ratio, they would, you know, dump in a few billion, and it would stimulate the economy. That's not happening anymore. So we're running out of rail. This freight train is, is, we're getting to the end of this.

So we're hitting an inflection point where people are going to be getting out of the yacht. They're going to be getting out of bonds. And they're going to be buying more solid assets. And that's going to be Bitcoin. It's already starting to happen. And that's going to accelerate. It's going to happen slowly, like we all know, and then suddenly.

And so that's what I'm seeing. A lot of those signposts increase. Also, I want to talk about 1940s we were in this situation because of World War II. but we have a different situation now. We have a different demographic with the age. We have, you know, the quantitative easing. We're going out and socializing all these bankruptcies. That's, you know, that's a different situation.

And also we have a lot more social entitlements that are out there. So in the 1940s, yeah, they went out and inflated away a lot of debt after World War II. We're in a different situation. Our demographics, we're a lot older now. We don't have a young population like we had anymore. So how are we going to get out of this? How are we going to escape out of this situation where how do we stimulate the economy? Well, we can't inflate our way out of it.

And so they're going to continue to print at an accelerator, rate and Bitcoin is going to be recognized as that escape. We're going to be hitting an inflection point. Maybe we already are. We already have. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. I've got a question for you, actually. A couple questions.

So maybe you could play out the game theory a little bit for me. Very early on, I was not familiar with one of your first points about how Australia is no longer defending the interest rates on its bonds. So how does that play out? What does that look like? And what's the danger there for their economy and not doing so anymore? Well, if interest rates go to the real rates rather than the ones where they're manipulating to force them down so that we can stimulate the economy, well, if interest rates go up,

that's going to slow the economy down again. So they can't they can't manipulate the economy to get out of a recession. So that's that that Kenzian theory that has not just been used for bad times, but it's used all the time to stimulate the economy for political gain. And that's the freight train that is running out of rail. So inflation, you know, bonds being devalued, real negative rates on all bonds around the world now. that's another another huge point all bonds on in the world right now have a real negative rate because they're not keeping up with inflation based on their return that's insane and so we have

this institutional momentum where people still buy US bonds and what we have more than a hundred trillion more than a hundred trillion I'm not really a gold bug you know I I'm into Bitcoin because it's a great protocol it's you know you call it you call it you call it Bitcoin standard. Yeah. Okay. Bitcoin protocol, when you start talking about that and comparing it to bonds, that's a $100 trillion market.

And we're going to get an inflection point where Bitcoin is a more solid investment than that bond market. So, yeah, I'm very bullish. Well, we're worth a little more than $1 trillion right now in Bitcoin. And we're a better investment than a $100 trillion market. you know so yeah i'm i'm extremely bullish awesome i don't know adam brad if you want to if you guys if you guys want to chime in feel free i want to say about the signposts are there you're absolutely right so you're saying the japanese are doing a stimulus program too basically i mean

that's that's what it sounds like i mean oh yeah the japanese the japanese have a higher debt to GDP ratio than the united states oh yeah they've been doing the kensian economics for a long time. Okay. Yes, they've been doing this for a long time, indeed. And it's been on life support their economy for quite, or it's been boring their economy since the late 80s. Okay. They've been able to pull this thing off for a while. The signpost are there that it's getting worse all over the world, that money printing is everyone's doing money printing now. And thus, we must be getting closer to this hyperinflationary moment where everyone will leave Fiat and wake up. I don't believe it at all. I don't think it's a sign.

Mindpost are there. The smart people, the smart people out there have protected themselves. The normies, the 80 percenters, most of the people who must be loyal to the country will believe in their fiat because their country told them to. All the Japanese, they've been told to spend, spend, spend for 20 years to believe in the yen. They've all done it. And they're some pretty responsible people. They've got a pretty cool country over there. In America, in the rest of the Western world, everybody has been, not everybody, 80 percent of the people have been blindly following what their government has been telling them to do with their bodies, when to go outside. So inflation to them, if they say inflation is good and they will say it's, if they say,

the country says inflation is good, they will just say it's happy inflation. Look, the prices are going up on everything is a good thing. People are eating it up. And yeah, that's a signpost also that all the houses are going up in value. But it's been twisted in, it's been twisted around saying, oh, look, the people who own houses are getting wealthier. And it's a good thing. It's a good thing that the pork costs more money over there at the supermarket.

So I think we're living in some very interesting times here. You make it seem like the money printing can only go so far. They can only take it to a certain level. But we haven't, and you mentioned negative interest rates. We haven't even gotten into turning the dollar into a Fed coin yet. We haven't introduced a central bank digital currency to the United States of America yet. That will happen. They will be able to do real negative interest rates on that. If you don't spend it, you get penalized. We're not even close to that yet. We're not. So that's still a trick up the sleeve. But that all this lies ahead is great for people like the four of us because we've already prepared. We've already gotten our Bitcoin right now. But for people who are listening that haven't done this, it's you might, we might never get hyper. We're never going to get hyperinflation in the United States. I think because people are so blindly. obedient to their government, they will go to the ends of the earth to do what is good for the

government and what is horrible for them. Okay, that is the weak CUCKs that make up most of the Western world. They will worship their government. It is their religion. They will do whatever they say. So hyper-inflation is partly a mental thing, is partly a psychological thing. So people will harm themselves before they lose faith in the United States dollar. But again, the bottom line is, is that it's all being devalued. It might not be hyperinflation, but there's definitely inflation going on. You don't want to be stuck in the norming land.

There are more and more signs out there every day. That is your point. And that is news. And you should be bullish that there are more and more signs out there. And let me bring up two more points, Adam. Yes. You know, we all know that there's going to be some kind of hyper-bitcoinization. sometime in the future.

That will be some kind of inflection. I would also like to add, and others that are talking about this also, that hyper-bitcoinization is also a debt jubilee. Bitcoin is the debt jubilee for all this debt. Because as you inflect from the bonds and from fiat, it's inflating, you may have debts,

but they disappear as that fiat and bonds become, you know, more or less paper in the curb doesn't matter anymore. And so it's really a debt jubilee. Bitcoin is a debt jubilee. A lot of people are going to get hurt. And the ones that are getting to Bitcoin sooner are going to be in the lifeboats. Bitcoin is a way to enjoy the debt jubilee. And I think so many, I know this Bitcoinization, hyper-Bitconization is, it's up to,

to interpretation, what you mean that to be. Everyone has a different definition of what hyper Bitcoinization is. I think a lot of people think that it's going to become the world reserve currency. I do not think it will become the world reserve currency because people will not give up on their currencies. And again, some of them will experience something like a debt if they were in great debt. And it will be okay to still be holding your fiat. Your debt won't be as bad on you personally at that point. It doesn't mean that they're going to jump into Bitcoin. to get the ultimate value out of this debt jubilee. I agree.

I see where you're coming from with the debt jubilee. But I think we do need a good definition of what hyper-Bitcoinization is because it is, it's different things to different people. And I never see. I think Bitcoin can be incredibly successful. If only 10, 20, 30 percent of the people on Earth know that they're using it and are using it. If the majority of people on earth want to have fun staying poor and use their very convenient Fed coins, because these Fed coins are going to be really convenient.

People value convenience over preserving wealth for themselves. They really do. And they will gladly give up all their privacy and be totally monitored with these Fed coins for the sake of. So there's value to people who don't value long-term wealth in these Fed coins and sticking with, their fiat. But I mean, we are, again, all four of us are on the same page here in terms of that, yeah, Bitcoin is the best money. It is the best money. I am just of the prerogative that most people will never realize it at all and will have fun staying poor and just do whatever, believe all the lies that are out there around Bitcoin and believe, and value the convenience

of being monitored and being a slave of their government through their digital. I'm of the position that Fiat and bonds are going to devalue at an accelerating rate. And so that's what's going to happen. And when we come out of this, when we find something that's, let's say, more trustworthy, sound money, whatever that is, then we're going to look back at this, let's say, use case number 16, and it will make perfect sense. Right now, people look at it, go, what? You know, and that use case is it flips the incentive from exponential Kinsian consumption to savings and conservation. I'm a conservationist, okay?

I'm from the greater Seattle area. I'm into Bitcoin. Put that together. How often do you hear that? Right? Not too often, but I'm into it. And if people really understood it, if conservationists really understood Bitcoin, they would be talking about Bitcoin more than any other topic. Because when we come out on the other side, there's two things that are going to be obvious.

Fiat printing is exponential consumption. And secondly, Bitcoin is savings. Bitcoin is conservation. I like your exponential consumption. Well, it's very in line with the Jeff Booth thesis that inflation is the number one reason. And one of the number one causes of environmental harm. Like if an economy has to operate with growth at all costs, how do you square that in the same mindset as trying to, quote, unquote,

save the planet, right? It's just impossible to square those two things. We cannot accomplish conservation where we have exponential consumption. This system will not allow us to do savings. It does not allow us to be conservationist. I want to bring up, you know, you say you're from the Seattle area and, you know, it's surprising to some people. It shouldn't be surprising to people. Everyone's got to get out of that mindset.

Progressives, leftists, whatever, everybody can be in the Bitcoin. You obviously realize this. I wouldn't group, group at all as progressives and leftists as being a conservationist. No, that's not a proper grouping. There's a site, the progressive bitcoiner.com, and it just gives another perspective on, you know, what makes up a big bulk of the Bitcoin community. I think people have a certain narrative about a Bitcoiner. I mean, I think that's what you're trying to say, that there's a certain narrative about what a Bitcoiner is and that you break that mold. And I agree, if you believe in the traditional mold, that it might shock a few people that you come from a certain background or whatever.

It doesn't talk me at all. I understand that Bitcoin can be for anyone out there. And we're getting into a separate topic here. I do wish there were more people out there that didn't understand that they try to pigeonhole Bitcoin to be for a certain type of person. It is for it is for everyone. Everyone can find a benefit. Yeah. And I want to bring this back to Jeff Booth.

You know, Jeff Booth, Greg Foss, Klam Beat, those are my three favorites. those guys are the trio that really made it crystal clear to me and in fact I put down their their handles and references for them on another web page on zanamo.xy-z. Just so people can get to their Twitter without getting these fake handles that are kind of causing problems on the Twitter accounts. But those guys are great. Yeah, yeah, they've done some pretty phenomenal work.

Brad, I don't know if you wanted to. chime in here if you i'll i'll hand the mic to you if you have anything yeah i i i kind of spend some time thinking about this stuff because i i i'm on a lifelong journey of like trying to understand what the hell is going on with our money system and our politics and social economic systems and everything and like there's always more data there's always more surprises um and Adam's probably right that people are just going to take the free money and be like, all right, I guess I get some 500 free bucks for reporting my neighbor for not declaring his Bitcoin that he made today mowing someone's lawn.

And that's the hyper-bitcoinized world with CBDCs, you know, social credit scores and all that. And maybe that is a weird world that we might end up in. but I think just in general, like, there's a lot more things that central bankers and politicians can do to try to stave off, like, the pitchforks and the depressionary times and the hyperinflation. Like, it's, it's all, it all ends in, in like, more consumerism, less conservation, more reliance on the state, less capitalist ideals, more compliance. It is not a great path to go towards. But I asked this to Jeff Booth and I asked this to Robert Breedlove and a couple different people that interview. I want to hear what other people think like, you know, what is the alternative? Because we all know that where this system ends without Bitcoin would be like a World War III or Great Depression 2.0 or something crazy like that.

because there's no there's no like rational foundation or fundamental escape valve or whatever for people that are rational to escape the nonsense that's happening and without Bitcoin as this this like pipeline inter rationality that people like us can just store our wealth and operate and tune into this signal and like we understand the problem we understand the solution let's all work together to just rebuild things if they do fall apart on a foundation of sound money, it might fall apart anyways with Bitcoin. Like things might get so crazy that things fall apart and you are protecting your financial self with Bitcoin for sure.

But if we didn't have Bitcoin, man, I would not be as bullish. I'd probably be like down a rabbit hole of like QAnon and like the, they're turning all the frogs gay and like I'd be so far down a rabbit hole of like what is causing all this like there's not this doesn't make any sense how can the world be like this but thank God for Bitcoin because it is signal in all this noise and it does allow us to look at like rational solutions like Jeff Booth's book is amazing it's like technology will solve the problems of like we need to get to some kind of post scarcity or or strive towards post scarcity where energy is cheap and free and abundant. And we also need to kind of try to take care of people and educate people and take care of the planet and make sure the society doesn't crumble. But yeah, he's totally right. Like the central banks and the politicians are at odds with what technology and sound

money can do for us. And it kind of sucks to see. But like Michael Saylor has a great way. thinking about this that um we don't need to attack or we don't need to root for the fall of like the fiat system or the central bankers or the politicians we just need to keep working we just need to keep evangelizing bitcoin just share the message of the signal of bitcoin to more and more people and like that's hyper bitconization to me when we don't like i used to be like occupy wall street and end the fed and like all the

that stuff. That used to really motivate me. And I'd go down these rabbit holes of like, how is this, how is this possible of these cabals of people control our money system and our politics? But now it's more like, that doesn't even matter. Like, look what we have here. This is, this is truth. This is like the most sensical thing that we can possibly focus our minds on because the like the trope, right, fix the money, fix the world. It's literally true. Like you fix the money. And then all other things will come, come together in a more sane way. It's not like it's going to fix things completely, but it allows things to be more sane

and rationality to come back into everything. It's kind of like if, you know, going down to those, the rallies and the Fed and occupy Wall Street with the existence of Bitcoin, it's like

sitting in a horrible restaurant and complaining about it when next door is some five-star incredible place where you can just get a feast for the same price. You just feel like, you feel like morphia, say? You're just like, you guys don't know, but there's some, there's a pill here for you. My meal is delicious and you're sitting in that, that decrepit, disgusting place next door,

eating, eating your bugs. It does like, it's like before Bitcoin, this, this, it was a much more on everything because, You can't do anything about it. There's nothing you can do to change a central banker from printing everybody's money away. Like, you just feel pissed off. And you just feel like you live in an unjust world and the universe is bad. And like people are not going to get what's what they deserve. But then with Bitcoin, I don't know.

I just get a lot more bullish on like the future and hopeful because like there is a way to go forward. Bullish on humanity, man. That's that's what it gives you. Well, I love this topic. I think it's great. I think in general, we're all on the same wavelength of Bitcoin fixes this, more or less. It's just what is the path and how extreme and rocky is it going to be on the way there. But I mean, we've already kind of, we've taken the steps to fix it for ourselves.

Now it's just the efforts of hopefully fixing it for our friends, family, and people that we care about. So, yeah, I think I think this is fantastic. Brian, that was a great topic. And I'm even more forward looking forward to your book. Yeah, Brad. I'd like to hear Brian's take on the Turkey situation. I don't know, Brian, if you follow that. But like the turkey, when I was looking into different experiments that have been run like financially, recently in modern monetary history,

the Turkey one was kind of a mind-boggling one for me because they've been experiencing like 20% inflation every year for like 20 years. and their bonds are priced really high. Like they've got like high interest, 15, 20% interest rates and they fluctuate between 10 and 20 or so. And their society has not yet quite collapsed. You know what I mean? Like they're able to get by on this high inflationary,

high interest rate system where it's almost like there, there's a monetary experiment happening in Turkey that it seems like if this was, it seems like it's actually like the people that run the system somewhere like, let's try this one here. Let's just tweak the simulation over in this country. And so what would they do with 20 years of 20% inflation and high interest? Let's just ask the question, what is inflation?

And if we can if we can just address that word, because some people say, oh, it's complex. It has many variables. Well, that's true. And so you have politicians that take advantage of all those variables and obfuscate what's really going on. I mean, the Romans were blaming people. gouging for food prices. In fact, we even heard Biden use that same excuse recently. And so, you know, the real variable, the big variable for inflation is money printing. The big variable is seniorage, which was happening back in the Roman days. It's the same thing. It's stealing.

It is theft. Okay. So the real problem is that the money printer is accelerating. And they're printing more and more money and that's more or less stealing it is gutting the the middle class okay it's making the wealthier rich you know so uh you know it takes let's who's making this money the central bank they're it's a bank they're trying to make money and how and also for their other banks and for their friends and for those who are politically connected which is wall street so this money very much services those people who have access to wholesale cheap money. And so why is Turkey doing this? It's really about centralized economy.

They want to feed their centralized economy. They want to have their military. They want to expand their power for greater influence. Who does that serve? Does it serve the middle class or does it serve the financial class? Is it the financial class or is it the working class? that it really serves. I think it's pretty obvious what's going on.

Yeah, and I guess it's like we could use Turkey or Europe or Japan as examples of what could happen. This could keep going for another 20 years. Like they could keep kicking the can down the road with all kinds of financial tools that they keep creating. Like Adam was saying the central bank currencies and stuff. This is one I really want. Here's what I think they're going to do. I think what they might do. like this one would be awesome.

If we could, if we could get this one, I'd be happy. If they just say, um, listen, everybody's credit card limit is now $200,000 and you have zero percent interest for two years.

Go on. Go spend or I know houses are affordable. We're going to subsidize everybody's house 70 percent. So you can go buy a house, whoever you are, you buy a house. They can do these kind of crazy moves still to really hack the economy and keep the can kick down the road for quite a while while they install UBI and stuff.

And we could have really high inflation for 20 years like Turkey. And then it could all fall apart eventually. But go ahead, Adam. Well, I think, I think that your main question of how can Turkey keep on kicking the can down the road? It's a very interesting experiment. They've been, they're having horrible. They seem to be pulling off. It's because they're an authoritarian regime.

It's easier to do this in an authoritarian regime when, if you don't obey, you're going to get killed. And they're going to send the tanks in on you. So I think that that's part of the reason they've been able to, you know, things look pretty bad and they've been able to carry out the inflation for quite some time in weird ways is because it's an authoritarian regime is the answer. But it won't last. It definitely won't last. But it takes, to change their situation would take a real, you know, violent revolution of the people. And who wants to even get into that situation? But authoritarian regimes have an easier way of doing, pulling off authoritarian financial measures, I think is

the bottom line. And centralized economies, they can, they can last 100 years, maybe even a thousand years. But we have a different situation now. We have Bitcoin. We have an escape. Bitcoin's going to fix this. And there's another, there's another answer to this too. I just looked at, I remember Bitcoin Tino was talking to me about this, me and a bunch of people in Clubhouse a couple of years ago, I mean, a couple months ago. And he brought up the point that their economy is growing really fast, at least their GDP on paper is, is growing. like almost double digits every year. So if they're able to grow their economy double digits, then it makes more sense that they can

have double digit interest rates and sustain double digit inflation. But that's not scalable to like the rest of the world because, you know, how are we in North America or how is China or India going to grow double digit GDP? So like Turkey gets away with it because they have a fast growing economy or like at least a sustained growing economy. But we can't, I don't think we're going to be able to sustain that type of growth. Well, it's what about nominal growth and real growth? Oh, yeah, after adjusted for inflation?

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. We're negative, aren't we? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're not doing so hot. We'll see how that plays out. Yeah, I, again, uh, It will be interesting to see how big of a windup they continue to have to give before they kick that can down the road each time.

Because it's taken more and more oomph to get it to go not nearly as far as it used to. We were talking hundreds of billions during 2008. And now trillions is like, you know, I'm numb to hearing, oh, it's three. trillion. It's four trillion. Maybe double digit trillions would would make me perk up a little bit, but I wouldn't be surprised. It's, it's and so yeah, it's going to take more and more to be able to quote unquote stimulate. And as you said in Japan, like they're they're basically given out stimmies and it's not doing much of anything. So we'll we'll see where that goes. But yeah, we're all on the same page that at least Bitcoin can fix this for those that decide to,

jump on the life wrap. So, yeah, well, let's, let's keep this rolling because I know, Adam, you're on a tight timeline. And so I don't want to miss your reason for being bullish. Brian, I thank you for your reason. It was a fantastic conversation around that. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So, Adam, I want to know what has you excited this week, what you're bullish about. I'm sure it will make us all bullish. All right. 13 minutes you got me for until it's time to say Shabbat. Shalom. Well, here we go. Here we go, dudes. There's everybody, you know, there's always these negative fud stories out there through the years. I have experienced so much of them. It's all cyclical. They all come back and they're all being recycled again. So being the positive guy I am, I'm bullish when I can turn something negative into a positive for Bitcoin. Okay. So here we had

on the side of Twitter where all the normies are, where everybody reads their headlines and they think this is the truth. This week, this made me bullish what I read. Beware of the flippinging. Seven crypto experts break down the ominous sounding event and its implications for Bitcoin. All right. Now, what I replied, mainstream media so out of touch with Bitcoin that they write a 2017 article in 2021 and think it's original and enlightening. So they, I mean, they really, the mainstream media are so out of touch with what's going on on Bitcoin. They're writing a story about, you know, oh, this Ethereum's going up in value. It's going to flip in Bitcoin. We're so smart. We, everyone who was here in 2017, it's like deja vu all over again.

What the heck? This is what they were writing then. Now that they're saying the same thing again, has anyone learned anything? If you have learned something from all this, if you realize what nonsense that is, how hilarious it is to read about the flipping. in the same way, like it's an original concept in 2021, like it was, you are in great shape, you are elite, because most people who, and most people don't read articles. They read Twitter headlines, okay? Most people are believing everything they see in the Twitter headlines or the mainstream media headlines. If you can think for yourself, that is great.

And for me, it is bullish that they haven't even caught on yet, okay, the mainstream media and the normies. They are still into Elon Musk's talking. about Dogecoin. They don't remember in 2017 Roger Veyer talking about B-Cash. That's all Elon Musk is just an exponential version of Roger Vair talking about B-Cash. People thought it was the end of the world in 2017. And then when they say they don't know about the concept of, you know, the Al-Coin flavor of the month. And that is proven time and time again by all the FUD is that's out there. So for me, I am bullish because I realize what nonsense all of this is, that I have seen this cycle happen

over and over again. And how does the cycle end? How does it end every time? Bitcoin to the freaking moon. People forget who Roger Vare even is now. All these normies who are talking about a flippening like its original thing, don't even know who Roger Vair is. Roger Vair was bigger than Elon Musk in terms of Bitcoin in 2013.

He was the end all that began all, that whatever, whatever you want to say. And now most people in the Bitcoin space in the cryptocurrency space, you ask him about who Roger Baer is, they have no idea who he is. Okay. So we, my, my bullish, what I'm getting at here is I'm bullish because I've seen them all come and go, baby, and it's all going to happen again. There'll be someone bigger than Elon Musk. There'll be something bigger than the flippinging that's a supposed threat.

And if you can grasp that concept, that it's going to keep on happening over and over and over again, all these lies and distortions. But in the end of the day, Bitcoin keeps going up. And there's never been a moment in Bitcoin's history where you can subtract 210,000 blocks and it's worth less. And so right now, if that continues, 210,000 blocks from now. If you're watching this in 2015, Bitcoin is worth more. Okay, it's a four-year freaking savings account right there. So I'm bullish. I'm bullish because of the fud because I understand that it's nonsense.

I'm bullish because of the kingly figures that just come and go and are soon forgotten. Bitcoin's bigger than it all, bigger than it all. And Bitcoin, in the end of the day, always wins. So that's what I've gotten from reading the ludicrous headlines of this. On the side of Twitter, one of their main articles is about the flippinging. Like it's an original thing. Flippening. Oh, my God.

Can I, I want to, to this topic, I got to share the screen here for a second. You know, Ethereum, geez, looks pretty good. All time high is, hey? Well, you got to value your wealth and Bitcoin friends because Ethereum's about half of its previous all-time high when priced in sats. And my guess is in a few years, it's going to look like Lightcoins chart. A volatile path to zero, my friends. I think that it's going to continue. It'll have spikes.

Some people will get lucky timing things, but you're just gradually losing sats on a long enough time frame. You know, it's a scary game to play. Also on the FUD, I think that people need to up their game in terms of FUD. I like Krugman, we're all doomed because the mayor of New York wants his paycheck in Bitcoin. Also, this one from earlier in the year where the guy, he said, if Bitcoin succeeds, where he literally said we're all going to die. I think that's the fun level we need to be on is we're literally all going to die. I think that's where we need to take this thing because we're basically almost there.

But I'll let Brian and Brad chime in if you want to. Yeah, I'd like to say Ethereum is a Dino. It's a decentralized and name only. Gary Ginsler, he is kryptonite to the Dinos. I think that Ether is proven itself of its centralized powers just recently by burning tokens. If you're adding tokens or burning tokens, it proves you have decentralized or you are centralized. So, yeah, they are, they are Adeno. They're decentralized in name only.

Brad, how about you? Any thoughts in the flood lately? Well, this dovetails nicely into why I'm bullish. So maybe I'll just go with my reason why I'm bullish. Let's do it, man. Because it is related. Like, I'm triggered a lot, or I was at least in 2021. There's a lot of crazy stuff that happened in 2021 that I did not see.

I did not predict Elon Musk pumping. Dogecoin. That was not something that I saw. I figured maybe there'd be another ICU bubble or something new would come. But I did not start to think I did not think that celebrities, influencers, really super wealthy billionaires would be pumping total joke cryptocurrencies. Like that was something that I, I just did not see that. And I know a lot of us didn't see that. Not even the crypto people saw that. Not even the Ethereum people saw Sheeb, the rise of Sheeb coin and Safe Moon Ponzi schemes. and all this stuff. Like, those guys were like, we're building all through the bear market and we're going to like flipping Bitcoin. And then they get outperformed by literal scam artists that are just like launching pump and dumps on TikTok.

And like, you know, it kind of weakens their narrative of like we outperform Bitcoin. Well, you got outperformed by a literal Ponzi scheme. So don't get so ahead of yourself. But what makes me bullish in this ridiculous crypto bubble with all this nonsense that's like swirling around and like all these things that I didn't think were going to happen,

but that ended up happening is Bitcoiners. And like it's it sucks to see, you know, to know Bitcoin, to know the message of Bitcoin and to know what Bitcoin is and to be trying for so long to push forward that message and to teach people about why Bitcoin's important and really like kind of like wake them up and on the principles of sound money and Austrian economics. or even just like hard money versus Keynesianism or whatever. To see some of my personal heroes,

like people like Tim Ferriss that I looked up to for a long time as an entrepreneur growing up, read a lot of his books, listened to his podcast religiously, got a lot of good thinking from him, start to like shill NFTs and like Ethereum coins and stuff like that. It's really frustrating and kind of like almost it hurts. You know,

like I don't know if any of you guys have had that experience where somebody has shilled some shit coin then you're like man that hurts like I really respected that person this this is not the way I would hope that hyper-bitconization would go down but it's easy to focus on all that stuff when there's a bubble and we're living through dot com 2.0 like this is going to get I think it's going to get crazier like bitcoin's bitcoin's going to keep going but I think there's going to be a of crazy nonsense happening with SPACs, companies going public with with shitcoin treasuries, companies buying shitcoins on their treasuries, like they're just going to be following along. Everything is going to be, there's probably going to be a country that makes a shit coin a legal

tender. Like this, this bubble is going to be nuts. But we have bitcoins and we have Bitcoin. And that's, this is almost like, like Adam said about Roger Ver, to me, it feels like this is almost worse than the 2017 fork war. I mean, I'm not afraid for Bitcoin. Like in 2017, there was a point where I was afraid for Bitcoin's success. I thought that the miners that owns 70% of the hash power and Roger and all and like Coinbase and all these big companies were actually going to go through with it.

And they were actually going to try to take Bitcoin. And we were going to have to like have the nuclear option and like hard fork. But they called it off because of Bitcoiners. And this time seems like it's different, but it's almost. worse for me because there's no like there's no big fight you know like we're succeeding so it's like we are succeeding bitcoin is winning but yet it still feels like we're fighting even though there's no attacks on bitcoin i mean there is some attacks but not to the level of 2017 so i try to think like okay i just got to focus on bitcoins because that is honestly the signal that keeps me bullish on bitcoin and

hopeful because like there's like a few categories of bitcoiners that really i i i'm glad we have the bitcoin philosophers the people that like deep think you know they they have deep thinky thoughts as american hoddle would say they have nice nice thinky thoughts like that they keep us you know like grounded in reality with with fundamental reasonings and essays people like tomer strolyte and and uh robert breed love Alex gladstein with all the content he's writing to to like appeal to the mainstream and to progressives and people that care about human rights and freedom. And that, like those Bitcoin, all those Bitcoin philosophers, that you don't see that in crypto.

You don't see that stuff. So that makes me super bullish on Bitcoin and Bitcoiners, Bitcoin entrepreneurs who are building Bitcoin only businesses, not caving into the, like the draw, the easy money that's there in crypto. There's billions of dollars, literally billions of dollars, freshly printed. from the pits of the money printer that are being funneled into these high super high net worth hedge funds

and stuff that are just piling their shit coin like fiat printed wealth into shit coins and into like crypto casinos and all this stuff and you got people like Jack Mallors that are just sitting there like no I'm not going to take

this I'm Bitcoin is the way Bitcoin only is the way this is what the signal is and I'm going to stay focus on Bitcoin. And Jack Dorsey, who honestly inspires me, and I'm so glad we have Jack Dorsey to do what he's doing with Cash App and to do what he's doing with Square Crypto and build in the new company they announced. Like all the stuff that those guys are doing makes me like, you know, hopeful. It's like there's a nightmare happening all around and you see the like the white light. You know, it's these Bitcoin entrepreneurs that are like Corey Clipson from Swan as well,

focus on Bitcoin education, the mission of Bitcoin only. Entrepreneurs that are building on Bitcoin makes me super happy that this is the way it's, even though there's a lot of craziness happening, we do have some really good fundamentally Bitcoiner entrepreneurs that get it and they're not just in it for the money. They're in it for the mission.

Yeah. Developers. Really quick, we should say goodbye to Adam. He has to run. I thought. I apologize, Brad. I really do leave when Shabbat starts. Shabbat is starting in one minute. Shabbat Shalom, everybody, have a great one.

Thank you. To what Brad is, to what Brad is saying. Yeah, it's just getting started, the craziness outside of the Bitcoin space in terms of the pumps and everything. And yet this time, there is not a direct serious attack on Bitcoin, but there's going to be a lot of crazy. I mean, NFT craziness stuff. Of course, we never could have predicted Elon Musk of billionaires. We're going to be talking about. So it's going to even get crazier than this.

What a time to be a lie. For me, it's a positive because Bitcoin's going to be awesome during the insane altcoin craziness too. So thanks a lot, Benny. Thanks a lot, everybody. Shabazzu. I'll see you soon. Bye bye-bye.

See you. And Brad, you can continue your thought. I'm sorry to interject. No, that's fine. I forgot he had to go. Yeah. Yeah, like the, so the developers, too, the Bitcoin developers that are, you know, not taking the easy pay, easy money.

There's a lot of smart people that have actually come into crypto because they've been attracted by these billion dollar incentive funds that are that are out there. And they're going and they're building things on these other chains because they can get paid out of the pre-mine. And the Bitcoin developers are some of the most like principled people, I think, because they're they're refusing to give in on their principles and go just get an easy paycheck from a shit coin company. and they're working on like lightning network and the second and third layer stuff and optimizing Bitcoin, like doing work on privacy and compression and all that stuff, decentralizing mining.

That's all super important. And we've got Human Rights Foundation, Brink Bitcoin, Square Crypto, Chain Code Labs. There's a couple others, people that are, even some of the crypto casinos now, like Gemini is sponsoring Bitcoin developers. OKCoin is sponsoring Bitcoin developers. It's awesome to see some of these people are at least paying their Bitcoin tithing. Like they're making money on the shitcoin bubble, but they're at least doing, and like Bitcoiners are making that happen. You know, we're just kind of like keeping them honest in a little bit of a way. Like you got to pay your Bitcoin tithing, like sponsor some Bitcoin devs, you know, put some money up.

And so at least we have that. We have resources being allocated to Bitcoin developers that are building out during this crazy bubble. And the investors, like the venture capitalist investors, people that are taking their money, their Bitcoin wealth or their Fiat wealth or whatever, and investing it in the Bitcoin entrepreneurs. And those people that are building out Bitcoin infrastructure that, you know, maybe they probably could get better gains by putting that money, that $100 million fund or something, like take some of the money and put a million into some shit coin fund that's going to get a 200x because of that. they're pre-mining a token and like salana you know what i mean like that type of nonsense where chemoth polyapitia and jason calicanis and those guys were just on a on a podcast the other day bragging about how they got like four cent salana tokens and now they're dumping them on everybody for like 200 bucks or whatever that thing is you know like that stuff's available to bitcoin

venture capitalists but they're focused long term like mimesis capital is one that they just came out with that uh that film they co-produced it with tomer and Swan. That was a good one. I like that. Great. Like, you know, that's long-term Bitcoin thinking. They understand that, like, this is kind of altruistic investing where you've taken

some of your wealth. You know you could get more money in the casino, but you're building infrastructure. You're allocating it towards Bitcoin developers who are sticking to their principles and building Bitcoin only to build out the infrastructure. And, like, I think everybody should pay attention to Stilmark and Bitcoin are ventures and Trammell Venture Partners and Bitcoin Magazine is doing such an, Not only are they like one of the best media companies, but they're investing venture capital style into Bitcoin entrepreneurs building on Bitcoin.

So Bitcoin Magazine is just so awesome that we have these guys. And then last category of like Bitcoiners that keeps me super bullish is the investors. Like the Bitcoiners that help me build my conviction, people that are like super eloquently evangelizing the reasons why Bitcoin is the best investment that we can have. Like Michael Saylor, man, whenever I listen to Michael Saylor, my bullishness just like comes back if I've been like looking at those shitty tweets in the nests or in the in the sidebar or whatever and I see some stupid nonsense about Sheba army is trending on Twitter and Canada a million tweets I'm like what the hell is happening then I see something by Preston Pish or I go on clubhouse and I listen to Bitcoin Tina or I just listen to some Bitcoin investor that is super eloquently describes Bitcoin and it just makes me grateful that like I we've got that. these mines in Bitcoin that can really help me and other Bitcoiners stay convicted in these nonsense bubbles that happen. And, you know, I guess in the end, it's Bitcoin is, is for the 99%

and that is why a lot of us got into like Occupy Wall Street and followed Ron Paul and stuff. It's because we were sick and tired of what central bankers were doing and ruining the money from the 99%. But that is what Bitcoin is. It's the signal that everybody, should be paying attention to and maybe they won't be until hyper-bitconization happens like it's going to take a lot of education and a lot of work but it's like the every 10 minutes there's there's another heartbeat of like rational fundamentals that keeps me bullish on bitcoin and bitcoiners who who are also like tuning into that same signal of the Bitcoin block you know it's like every 10 minutes there's a lot a noise, but that's the signal. And those of us that pay attention to that Bitcoin signal are

the types of people that keep me bullish on Bitcoin. Yeah, I love that. And I just want to touch on a couple quick things on what you said. And then I'll toss it to Brian for any of his, his thoughts about what you were saying there too. I think the people that you're alluding to, the sound thinkers that really hone in on the signal and then present it so well, That's the reason that we're seeing not only Bitcoin continue to kind of dominate everything in terms of like nothing can really touch it and and people getting it and people with a lot of capital getting it. I think it's because that signal and the way it's presented is so consistent, whereas

everything outside of Bitcoin has to continually justify its existence versus Bitcoin. And as Bitcoin fills those use cases, if they're actually useful, they need to shift gears and completely change what they're trying to do, right? The world's computer became, you know, a launch pad for company security tokens became whatever the hell it is now. It's, you know, it's now ultra sound money apparently because they, they tweaked the monetary policy, which is exactly what we need. somebody that can pull levers and push buttons. It's always shifting of, well, you know, Bitcoin can't do this. So that's why we're here. Oh, wait, Bitcoin's doing it.

Oh, well, we can do this other thing too. So it's a lot of that. But I think part of your and I echo your frustration in seeing a lot of this stuff is because, yeah, you're right. even when we're winning, even when things are going to plan, even when when Bitcoin is is doing incredibly well, it's the backdrop is this cacophony of, of, you know, 100xing shitcoins that are totally irrational. And when Bitcoin hits a bear market, it's a cacophony of, of Keynesian economists saying, I told you so. So on either side of the market, whether it's going up or it's going down. You either have Keynesians or shit corners saying, I told you so. But when it finally turns around

and one of those sides gets burned, they've just kind of pissed off and they've gone away. And so you don't get that moment of I told you so. And then another cycle comes along and the shit corners that got burned have disappeared. And there's a whole new group of people coming in doing the same thing, learning for the first time. So you never have that moment of of recognition of, oh, yeah, you were correct. It's just, you just stay the course. And you just see this revolving door of people coming in saying, we're smarter than you. Oh, goodbye.

Oh, we're smarter than you. Oh, goodbye. And it just, it happens over and over again. And you never really, truly get the satisfaction of like, oh, you know what, actually, though, you were correct, you know, we're coming around to your line of thinking. It doesn't really happen that often. So, yeah. Brian, I don't know if you want to tag in anything to what.

Yeah, I enjoyed that, Ben, and I enjoyed Brad's discussion on what's keeping him bullish. I want to hone in on the noise that you talked about, Brad, especially about Musk, Elon Musk, and also Roger Ver. They both jumped into this boat, the big block boat. and I think there's a couple ways to look at this. This is truly noise. Both of these guys are, from my perspective, are looking for short-term profits. They just want to make the blocks bigger for scalability,

and it's not a long-term solution. Whereas on the other side of that, you have people like Adam Back, who was part of hash-cash, inventing that. He really understands the long-term message. And that is decentralization. That really takes us to what the core innovation here by Satoshi Nokomoto. And that's, I really believe Elon Musk has a huge blind spot, a technical blind spot in software.

You know, he claims he's read that white paper. But he does not understand the core innovation here. The core innovation is decentralization. because never before had someone been able to do a peer-to-peer transaction without an intermediary. And Satoshi Okamoto accomplished that with the white paper 13 years ago, and he proved it out about three or four months later in January, you know, which is coming up soon. And so I think this kind of gives an opportunity because I want to, I want to, talk about some basics here just for the newcomers, you know, the nubes here that are just learning about Bitcoin.

And there's something called the Byzantine generals problem that computer scientists could not figure out. When they had a distributed network, if you had something that was mission critical, like let's say you have a bunch of generals and we needed to attack or we needed to withdraw. And what was the signal and what was the time? but some of the generals were not reliable and perhaps some of the communications were not reliable. That was the Byzantine's general problem. Well, Satoshi Okamoto solved that problem. He wrote about it and a lot of people in the community said, you haven't done that. There's something centralized about this.

Well, he proved out Bitcoin is the most decentralized solution ever. And it's really, it's an amazing innovation. It's not just being able to do a transaction from peer to peer without an intermediary. It's the fact that it can scale. And that's what we and Adam Back have patience to accomplish that by building out, you know, second layer in these other technologies so that it can scale without making the blockchain really big that threatens decentralization. Because when you have a really big blockchain, then you have a really big blockchain, then you have central servers that are going to have to operate that.

And that really violates the original intent here of a decentralized solution. And Elon Musk and Roger Verr, these are guys that are interested in short-term games. And we're really talking about something that's very special here. Bitcoin is the macro consensus. Money is macro consensus. Bitcoin is the best. macro consensus. Nothing.

There's no money out there more decentralized than Bitcoin. Nothing even comes close. It's the development of Bitcoin is very in

tune with the idea of low time preference, right? Like you're talking about all of these people that they just want the quick fix and what's the quickest way to get

more transactions per second? Well, we'll bump up the block size. It doesn't matter if we do a non backwards compatible change to the protocol or how often we do it. It doesn't matter if down the line that means that individuals can't run nodes. We need this now. You know, we just want to fix.

We'll figure it out later. And as we're seeing, you know, you can't run a node on Ethereum. It's got to be on AWS. You know, it's, it calls into question the whole point of why we're even here. if you cannot validate yourself. And again, not everybody has to run a node, but it's very important that everybody can run a node if they choose to do so.

Yeah, and let's, we know this is going to be very disruptive. I mean, when I was in El Salvador, I could buy a cup of coffee, you know, spend $1.50. It cost me less than one cent for the transaction. You would confirm it less than two seconds. That is disruptive. not only to Western Union, that is disruptive to Visa, to MasterCard. We're talking about on Lightning Network, less energy, faster, cheaper.

You know, within a year from now, when everyone gets up to speed, goes through this learning curve in El Salvador. Goodbye, you know, Visa, hello Bitcoin. Yeah, it's really going to, I think it's going to change a lot. And I think that, I don't know if it was Brad or if it was Adam that said it, but people are sleeping on this. So they're sleeping on what's actually being built on top of Bitcoin. I mean, we've been talking about it today. We've been talking about lightning. We've been talking about things like coin join and now I'm totally forgetting the name of it.

Mercury wallet was state chains. Yes, state chains. And then all of the impervious AI stuff being built on top of lightning, it's wild to think what is possible. And when you actually look at what can be done without the need for additional tokens and entirely different blockchains and cramming everything onto layer one, it's pretty humbling. And I don't think that most people that are holding these other alt coins, one care, but those that maybe do care, I don't think that they've taken the time to see what's possible without the need for it. token. It's not just Bitcoin. It's Bitcoin the network. It's it's a hundred million Satoshi's in every Bitcoin and Lightning Network is all about just little sats. So yeah,

it's going to become a medium of exchange just for SATs too. And this if you take the Bitcoin as as the most, um, the hardest asset out there and you you take this amazing network peer-to-peer without any intermediaries and then lightning, which does it in seconds. We're talking about the most exciting software project on the planet. I can't think of anything that's more exciting than this. Yeah, I would absolutely echo that.

I think all I want to do now, I'm going to start rounding things out. This has been an awesome conversation. I'll get any final thoughts from both you gentlemen, and then we'll round it out. So of course, everybody that's watching, thank you very much for being here. Maybe I'll go to Brad first. Brad, if you have any final thoughts about anything that we chatted about today

and also let people know where they can find you. Yeah, no, I would just say, like, I'm a super big fan of clubhouse, even still, like the community is a bit smaller now, but it's still pretty decent size. and anybody that has a friend or a family member or whatever that you're trying to orange pill, I think clubhouse is a really good resource. Sometimes, you know, there's a lot of people on Clubhouse that are retired off Bitcoin and they're not worried about getting canceled. So they say some things that are a little controversial or just like off the cuff,

like, you know, not politically correct or whatever. So you may have to give that little warning to the friend or the family member that you might hear some things in this club. clubhouse room that could trigger you a little bit, but the signal is important. What they're saying makes sense and it's very important. And I think it's like Bitcoin's, one of Bitcoin's greatest resources right now is all these people that are out there on Clubhouse, just answering questions, talking about their conviction in Bitcoin, talking about why Bitcoin matters. And I do think it's a great resource and people should use it a little bit more and send their folks that are maybe having a hard time getting orange pilled because the profit is never welcome. in their hometown. So if you got someone in your family, family that's like, I'm not going to listen to you. I saw you pee in your pants when you're a kid. Why am I going to listen to you about money?

Just send them to the Bitcoin. It's a common problem for me. I saw you do that last night. Yes, send them to Clubhouse and kind of hang out with us. And Black Bitcoin billionaires on Clubhouse is an awesome club and the Cafe Bitcoin Club. And yeah, you come in there with us sometimes too. Ben. I do enjoy it. It's it's like my, when I'm like, God, I got to talk to somebody about Bitcoin, just because I could just jump in there really quick. And all of a sudden, there's a room

full of people talking about exactly what I want to hear. So it's, it's, it's definitely a nice little release for me. Yeah, I think that's a great app. Definitely check it out. Check out Clubhouse. Of course, Brad's Twitter handle is, is down below. You can check him out, Adam as well. Ryan, I'll toss it to you. Whose Twitter handle is also in these show notes. But Brian, any final thoughts and any resources or anything you want to point people to? Yeah, I love hanging out with Bitcoiners. You know, they have crystal clear vision on long term what's going to be happening.

I think what I'd like to do is if you want to connect with me, I recommend going to xenomel. That's like zen and minimalism. So zenimal. xy z and you can link into my twitter and also i recommend the other highly recommended references on sentinel dot xyz and also my 16 use cases are there but as far as talking about my book i don't want to i don't really want to plug that right now because that takes more time to discuss but i really want to just focus on use case why i'm excited why i'm very bullish on bitcoin during this during this session.

Awesome. Well, Ryan, Brad, it was awesome having you. Also, shout out to Adam Meister for coming on. First time on Why Are We Bullish. Always a pleasure having him. And, of course, you guys are welcome back anytime. Yeah, we'll definitely be seeing you in the future. I'm going to cut your audio and video for now.

But guys, thank you very much for being here. Thank you, Ben. Thanks for helping me train my strong hand. for holding hands. All right, I'll see you guys later. And everybody that's watching the stream, thank you guys so much for watching. As always, like, subscribe, share,

all those things, they really, really do help. Of course, if you want to help with the show in another way, you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors. Those were Shake Pay, Bill Fottle, bit refill, Keystone, and oh my gosh. I'm forgetting. Oh, no. Anyways, they're all in the show notes down there.

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