BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Chris Boettcher, JoeyTweets, Mark Goodwin ep285

Episode Date: September 3, 2022

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/JoeyTweeets https://twitter.com/markgoodw_in https://twitter.com/chrisboettcher9 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shakepay is the easiest way to buy Bitcoin in Canada Sign up now and get $30 free after your first $100 purchase! https://shakepay.me/r/BTCSESSIONS LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $10 free with a savings balance of $75 or more for 15 consecutive days! https://start.ledn.io/btcsessions Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards, earn sats back while you shop. https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 BITCOIN tips: https://strike.me/btcsessions

Hello, everyone. Welcome another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. We got a killer panel tonight. We got a returning guest and a couple brand newbies first time on Wob. So very excited to have them all. It's going to be a blast. I've got a beverage going, but I'm put to shame by Joey, who has three on the sidelines ready, and they're all tall boys. So we're going to get this thing rolling. Of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend. Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks.

If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share, all those things, help this content get in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, Let's take a look at where we are on the market right now. Just eeked over 20,000, but it's been a, well, not that much of a volatile day, to be honest.

But in the context of sideways chop that lasts forever that happens in these bare markets, you know, it's been a little bit up and down here. But a single U.S. dollar at the time of this video, we'll pick you up 5,03 sats. 91.14% of all Bitcoin have been mined. And in terms of fees, next block, it's looking like 19 sats per byte. If you're willing to wait a little bit, somewhere between 5 and 11 sats per byte should do you. Quick shout out to sponsors of the show. Coin Kite.

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I think it's time for me to stop rambling and bring in who you guys came here to see the guest for today so we got Mark, we got Chris, we got Joey, gentlemen, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you. I think it's in order that we do a quick round of intros for anybody unfamiliar

so I'll simply ask who are you and what do you do and I'll pass it to Mark first. Yeah, hey everybody. Thanks Ben so much so to be here Chris Joey, what's up? Yeah, Mark Goodwin out in the Bay Area. I work on the print magazine for Bitcoin Magazine. Do writing and editing there.

And yeah, I'm fucking stoked to be here. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, man. Absolutely. Glad to have you. Joey, you're returning. Let people know who you are if they didn't see you last time. Ben, happy to be here, man.

Thanks for the invite as always. And gentlemen, looking forward to tonight. My name is Joey co-host of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. We run Monday streams, Wednesday streams, and whenever we feel like it streams, hope to see you there. And as always, looking forward to some Bitcoin discussion.

Awesome. Well, dude, glad to have you back. Last time I was remote, now I'm back in my home. I've been in the notice town a lot lately. So it feels nice to be in the office for a change. But we'll toss it over to Chris here. Dude, I'm glad to have you on. I'm sure we'll get into some of the topics that drew me to ask you to come to the show.

But let people know who you are and what you do. Yeah, man. So first of all, I like to introduce myself as a husband and father first. Those are the two roles that definitely mean the most of me. It's kind of what's driven me to this most recent path that I'm on. I just left the sick care system, as I like to call it, as a physical therapist. And don't plan on going back. I'm trying to build something different on my own right now, trying to empower guys to take back control their health, take back control of their responsibilities as dads and as husbands. and just trying to build this thing from the ground up and try to motivate as many guys as I can. Awesome. Well, dude, I'm glad to have you here. I'm glad to have all of you. This is, before I get in, I got a, there's something in the chat. It has to be addressed.

Joey, can you confirm or deny that you bleached your shirt? I didn't, listen, I don't wear this shirt that often. I'm going to give you a preview here of the topic I'll be discussing tonight. I got a nice tree here. Sorry, we'll work on this. And on the back of the shirt. On the back of the shirt. On the back of the shirt.

Big tree energy. I love it. We got lots to talk about, boys. Lots to talk about. Awesome. All right. Well, gentlemen, thank you for being here. Everybody that's watching, if you're here for the first time, maybe you're unfamiliar,

this is why are we bullish. Really simple, chill show. The whole premise is we go by the three R's. First, somebody's going to drop a reason why they are bullish. That can be any topic that you see fit, it's top of mind. Second, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason, thoughts, questions, whatever it may be. And then third, we're going to rotate until all of us get a term, simple and sweet. And I'm going to get us rolling today. So I'm going to chat a little bit about my reason for being

bullish. And my reason for being bullish is that I found that being in Bitcoin has actually piqued my curiosity in other facets of life and has caused me to learn about lots of different tangential topics and areas of expertise. So the reason this is top of mind for me right now is some of the stuff that I've had to be messing around with just even today and the past week or so. In and around, I like playing with different nodes and trying out different software and everything like that, running Bitcoin nodes. And I'm always doing tutorials around that kind of stuff. But some of it can get interesting if it's a little bit more of a hands-on experience. So one of the things that I've now started to attempt to learn about is soldering. So I picked

up a soldering iron. I had no idea what I was doing. I'll say that my first time out, out. You know, I left a little bit to be desired. It wasn't the best job I've ever done. But it seems to be kind of working. I'm going to have to play around a little bit. But nonetheless, I'm trying to affix a screen to my Raspberry Pi, my Razpie Blitz, which is a Bitcoin and Lightning node. So I've been tinkering around with that. And so then I've been trying to figure out how to wire this thing to the Raspberry Pi board with all of these wires that I've got put in after I soldered things together pins. And, you know, I've been looking at all these different pinout diagrams trying to figure

out just how to even do this stuff, which I, you know, I was, I'm going in blind, right? Like, I haven't really had to deal with a lot of this stuff previously. But I did get some stuff going. I got my Raspberry Pi. bullish let's go look sick be going it seems to be working and then there it is with the

enclosure actually put in there and it seems to be running just fine I haven't opened any lightning channels or anything yet but it's working the screen is up everything is looking nice the screen is just kind of sitting there I haven't been able to affix it with anything I'm going to have to figure out some adhesive or something

but it does stay put and then I got curious because on Umbrel, which is another node implementation, you can download different apps. And one of them is called Tail Scale. What Tail Scale is, is it allows you to remotely access your node without having to have like Tor or anything like that. It basically creates like a virtual, like a VPN that easily connects to whatever device you're trying to connect to just through your regular browser. creates its own closed network. So on Umbrell, it's like you just download the app and then you log into it.

And that's pretty much it. But on the Raspberry Pi, it's not an option to download that. So I was like, I toss it out there on Twitter. I was like, how do I do this? And it's basically you got to go into command line, which again, another thing that I've like just kind of barely scratched the surface of. but now I'm starting to get a bit more comfortable. And lo and behold, I figured it out. And like just literally moments before we came on here,

I got tail scale set up on my phone. And then I linked it with the command line to my Raspberry Blitz node. So now I can access it remotely from anywhere with the click of the button, which is incredible. And then up on the docket next, Alpha Zeta is a guy. and he put together this cool, like, screen that you can get for the front of your raspberry pie, like for the, where does it look like?

For this screen here. And it reads out a lot of different information and, you know, any fees that you may have collected from lightning channels and forwarded payments and all that kind of stuff. And price information. Anyways, my next goal is to learn how to use the command line and actually do all of this crap. and get it installed. So we'll see how that goes. But the long and the short of it is,

is that being in Bitcoin is forcing me to learn new skills and try new things that I probably wouldn't have dabbled in whatsoever. And like it's not exclusively just in tech-related fields. And I'm sure we'll get into this probably with Chris later on as well. But even some of the ethos of Bitcoin, it sends you down different rabbit holes around values or around proper nutrition and health. And there's all kinds of different things that kind of seep into your life through Bitcoin, in my opinion anyways, and I'm sure others can attest to it.

But it just makes you generally curious about the way you used to live your life and about new things that you could try and tinker with. So that's my reason for being bullish. It's kind of up to, I don't know. It's a strange one, but I just want to open it up to you guys. What are your thoughts on Bitcoin and the rabbit holes that leads you down, either in relation directly to Bitcoin or outside of Bitcoin? And also, does anybody run a Raspberry Blitz?

So whoever wants to dive in. Ben, Ben, the real question, I think this goes for like a bunch of stuff in Bitcoin, mining, the stuff you're doing with Raspy Blitz and the nodes, all that, all that kind of stuff. What would you say the minimum technical capability is or should be for a person who attempts that? Like you said you had never done anything like that before. That was like your first time holding a soldering iron. Like it's in the scrapbook now. Like, so like, what is the minimum technical capability for someone who wants to try that?

What do you think? Well, so I mean, obviously. I've had some prerequisites there in that I've used a Raspberry Pi before, you know, and I've done the basics of like, I'm going to take a Raspberry Pi and plug it in and, and like, you know, put a put an SD card and like flash in some software. That stuff that I'm talking about there, like the simplicity of say maybe piecing together and spinning up an umbral mode that you don't need. you don't really need technical prowess.

You should know how to turn on and operate a computer. You should know how to put together Lego blocks. You know, it's not that difficult when you're spinning up something like an umbural. I would argue that even, you know, the only reason that I dove into soldering is because I wanted it to look like this. But you can buy parts that just kind of snap together much easier and still have a screen going and everything. So, yeah, the soldering iron, I did that to myself. But I think that speaks to it, though, you know? It's like there's a teaching teacher element to Bitcoin that like, you know, maybe you could argue comes downstream from, you know, like, you know, actually being able to own something, right?

you know um but yeah it's like i think the technical skill like it should be curiosity is really the prerequisite and i really think there's you know with with ben's guides and all that there's so much good material out there that you really can just do it with curiosity really being the only prerequisite which is like really cool it's a very very special thing in bitcoin i like i think to your just to your point about like there's a lot of mastery is like within bitcoin and i think It's like a two-way street where Bitcoin teaches you a lot about different masteries, but also you can get into Bitcoin via all of these different masteries. There are people that will probably get into Bitcoin because they love tinkering and building little computers.

And maybe that is the thing that will get them in. It's kind of neat. It works both ways, I think. Yeah. And it's interesting because especially in the context of running a node, a lot of people misinterpret kind of the sequence. of events there. Oh, I need to learn a bunch of stuff so that I can then run a node. But in reality, the node is the learning tool. Yeah. Right? Like it's the act of putting it together and then

figuring out what you do with it, that is the learning process. So I would argue, like, if you're curious about it and you think it's kind of cool and you want to give it a try, then just start, right like just find pick a project whether it be umbrile or or um razz by blitz or start nine or uh a ronanan dojo or whatever whatever your flavor is um and just go for it just grab some parts or or if you're really really unsure grab a plug and play box and and then just start because again the experience of just having the node there and playing with it that's the that's the learning experience there. You don't need a lot of prerequisite for that. Totally. Yeah. I just want to run with that a little bit. When you talked about that,

what spoke to me is the idea of action over continuing to overanalyze. And that leads to just stagnation and you're just spinning your wheels. And that's what I found in my experience is you don't have to have anything figured out. You just have to consistently act. And if you just keep showing up, it's going to lead you to some level of growth, whether that's a technical skill or communication or whatever it is. And it's honestly something I try to live my life by now because I've seen so much progress that unfortunately we have, I'll go down a rabbit hole here right away.

With an education system that makes us hate learning, so it crushes curiosity, is you have to relearn the process of enjoying learning again. And the best way you can do that is by finding things that you're interested in and then just exploring them relentlessly because they'll kind of lead you from one, thing to the next is it's just been what I've found over the last couple of years after yeah just pounding my head against the wall for way too long yeah that's yeah is that's that's that's so true man

like I never really thought about that Chris like remembering how to enjoy learning you know when you're a kid the the wonders of the world are are sort of you know neat to you and you're it's it truly is trained out of you that enjoyment for picking up a new skill or picking up a new set of ideas and you have to relearn that. Ben, I know, I know you know this is a content guy. You know, I didn't know anything about how to like do video or audio editing. None of that shit is native to me at all. And, you know, you learn whether it's that or to your point, Chris, you know, communication skills. Can you speak eloquently and summarize an idea in a way that's digestful for someone who doesn't have the maybe technical background you do? Or Ben, you know, you've been doing that for a long time.

You know, your videos are really the thing that everyone looks to when they're trying to do something new for the first time in Bitcoin. So it's unfortunate that we've made it to this point. But I think one thing about Bitcoin that's different from other ecosystems is in Bitcoin, there's no crab bucket. When you're trying to learn something and better yourself, there's no one dragging you back down. There's so many more people trying to help you get to where you want to go.

And as long as you show up in earnest, attrition is your friend over a long enough period of time. 100%. Couldn't agree more. Yeah, there's much more of an abundance mindset, you know, versus everybody feeling like they've got to steal their piece of the pie. And I think that's what I've, what's been beautiful for me to see is just so many people who are trying to level up and then hold people alongside of them rather than then continuing to fight amongst themselves

where nobody's really benefiting at that point. Yeah. Yeah. And there's also just a mathematical sort of element to learning that the further along you get, it's sort of less enjoyable because like the steps of improvement get smaller and smaller. You know, like your first week. of learning a new instrument it's like you know that's 50% of you're you're like halfway there and then you spend the next like 10 years doing the next like 15 right and um and that's true and and in bitcoin

and you know i think some people get really jaded the further they get along into it and you know because yeah they didn't just like figure out what the difficulty adjustment is you know they like are like you know oh man i'm like analyzing fucking aluminum charts and shit it's like what's like what's how the how the fuck did I get here um which is trading trading views the most screen time on your phone like yeah exactly it's like man this just a mean something you know what am i doing no and just like yeah i i i think it's and the way to fight that i think is like by teaching and putting out those guides and doing it in doing the element you sort of like cure that itch you you find the fun again and like seeing you know new people figure out what

the difficulty adjustment is, you know? And like, that's the fucking shit. Yeah. So I really like that. And I love the self-responsibility kind of proponent of what you're talking about Chris, I think is really awesome. It's investing in yourself. Like, where else can you, where else?

You know what I mean? Like, where else can you get this kind of stuff? You certainly don't get it working for the man. You certainly don't get it, you know, in many facets that we're told are the normal way to live your life, whether it's higher education or a job, you know, nine to five, whatever. Investing in yourself is something that most of us unfortunately have to do in what's supposed to be our spare time. And that's a whole other element to this whole, you know, this whole puzzle that you have to come out of this.

You have to remove yourself from this idea that your time is somehow spare. You don't get, there is no spare time. You have to do something with all of your time, whether you waste it playing video games or spend it at the gym or spend it soldering or spend it doing whatever. There is no such thing as spare time. It's all time that's going to eventually, you know, be lost. And so you damn well better spend it on something that's important to you and that betters you and makes you a happier person. And so why not, why not do it this way? I have trouble figuring this out with people who don't spend their time in this manner.

But I think in Bitcoin, there's enough people that are doing it and they've been successful doing it either from an economic standpoint or from a personal happiness standpoint that there's really no excuse not to do it once you make in this space. What do you guys think is the primary reason that people stop being curious? Like what takes that natural curiosity and that willingness and excitedness to learn new things and crushes it? I think it's lack of self-belief. Like that's what I think it just sucks the life out of us. And we get into the rat race of life. And we're taught one skill. And we think that's the only skill that we can use to create a living.

And anything outside of that, we're breaching out of our comfort zone. and everybody around us is screaming at us to tell us to stay in our comfort zone. And that's what I've found is it's all mindset, self-belief and lack thereof that keeps people in their own prison system. And once you can consistently lean into just like beating yourself through that wall, there's just no stopping you. But it takes a long time to be able to convince yourself to do that. That's just my two sense.

Totally. And there's some like runaway perverse incentives in there too. sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do we know anything about incentives as Bitcoiners? Like how long we got, Ben? We only got a couple hours, I guess. They're best not to go through that right now. It's called game theory. It's called game theory. How much time we got? That's why I'm bullish. Game theory. Well, let's do, let's, I guess we can kind of wrap this here. But I mean, I, I guess in closing, Bitcoin has made me inherently more curious about going to down paths of learning that I previously would never have thought that I would either even try

or be able to grasp. So yeah, I think it's kind of a unique thing. And I think, again, the ethos that comes with being a bitcoiner. And I shouldn't like paint in broad strokes, but I've seen a lot of this with bitcoins where they get a better handle. on one aspect of their lives, and then they start thinking about the idea of low time preference and what can I better, how can I better allocate the only thing more scarce than Bitcoin, which is my time.

And I think that's an interesting way to go. Time is the only commodity. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, exactly. Mark, does Bitcoin Magazine have a budget to put that on a shirt that I can buy and shrink and bleach? you know. Yeah, I don't know what your starch budget is, but we can probably work something out and get you set up. Yeah, no doubt for sure. Awesome. All right. Well, let's do a rotation here. Before we do,

I'm going to give a shout out to totally not the IRS for the $2 donation. I'm definitely not going to claim that. So thanks, man. I appreciate it. Welcome. Yeah. And there's everybody in the chat, of course, keep the comments coming. I'll start pulling up more now that it's not specifically my topic. But yeah, we're going to do a little rotation here. So I'm going to jump to Mark next. And I'm just going to ask you, man, why are you bullish? What's what's exciting to you right now? Yeah, for sure, for sure. Just to be clear on the rundown, I should save a couple reasons, right? I shouldn't just like go all out right now.

You can go all out because we're just going to riff on your thing and then we'll rotate to the next person once we get through these topics. I mean, it's all really the same reason. You know, I was just, I wouldn't know if I had to like kind of stretch out that ammunition a little bit. But, uh, well, I'll be honest, guys, like, I've been kind of bearish for a bit. Like, I'm just from a macro standpoint, man, it's like, I know, I know. And trust me, I know, I know. Well, it's a setup.

It's a setup. And it's just, everything has just felt so shitty and uncertain and fucked up. I can swear you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. What you want. Sweet.

It's just been really fucked for a bit. And, you know, so I haven't really been super confident in the market. And like when I saw, you know, we went up to like 25K and I saw everyone kind of getting super bullish, I was like, this is a pretty, I think this is going to end badly. You know, I can kind of see that. And to me, that was sort of like, okay. And then we basically went, we went down to 20K. That's like 20% flat, you know. It's like the idea that then everybody in the world just turned bearish.

all at the same time at 20K, to me is like, okay. Like all the very same people that were like bowl crazy at 25 are now like doom posting about like breaking 10K and all this shit. Which like I'm not saying is not possible. Like of course, anything's possible. It's Bitcoin. But like, I don't know. You can kind of see the market sentiment like the tide like switch. Like the narrative has really like switched.

Whereas everybody was moon posting, you know, a few, a few. a few weeks ago, really. So, yeah, when I kind of see something like that, it's like I think people are going to take that 20% if they're flat and close out some positions at 20K, I think we're going to chill here. I could totally see a nice short squeeze here. Yeah, I'm kind of bullish in this, like, contrarian sense

where I've been so cautiously bearish for, I don't know, like half a year now, maybe more, yeah. And now everyone is super bearish and that to me is like a sign that, you know, because like, hey, the reasons why I'm so bearish is because everything's so fucked up. But it's like Bitcoin is like, it's pretty much built exactly for this moment. It's just also the moment has to play out and we have to have a, like, bleh. And, you know, we had it in 2020. We had that big.

Everything went down all at once. And I still think we could have that moment again, which is why I don't think anyone should really go yolo crazy yet. I think that very well we could have that 2020 liquidation event coming up. But also it's like what do we what's what's next? And to me it's like the dollar is destroying every currency. But also the dollar has a lot of issues to deal with. And we can't just keep kicking this down the road. I think we are going to have to print.

I think our debt service is too much. And, you know, I think it might be, you know, maybe Q1. But I really see big. Bitcoin being a very important tool, you know, in the macro environment moving forward, like just what we're seeing with energy prices and monetary debasement. It's just like that's what Bitcoin's for, you know? And, you know, Bitcoin has a lot of things to deal with and build and get there to be able to meet that need. There's a lot of work to do for sure. And I don't think, you know, let's not take too many things for granted.

But also this is exactly what Bitcoin's for. you know let's let it do its thing and you know boomba cycles are totally a natural thing in markets and nature and in anything and you know I think this is just a very natural part like we just saw how much sickness was in the bitcoin market and how much just got flush the fuck out it's like that's good I know it sucks we're all poor it sucks

but like so bullish and so good to just rid all this shit and get back to teaching and kind of less of this like, you know, it's a great tool. And so I'm bullish. I'm bullish for that, you know. I mean, as long as you have low enough time preference, then this is just a momentary blip. Opportunity.

Right? It's like still being upset about the 2018 bear market, right? Oh, that was so bad. I was so upset. That was such a rough. That's my favorite time of Bitcoin. That's when I learned. the most about Bitcoin because I was like, what did I just do? Like, what, how did I get here?

You know, not in a bad way. I, I, I, 2017 was good to me, but just like, what did we all just experience, you know? And then I, like, learned what Bitcoin really was, you know? And maybe that was downstream because of what happened in 2017. Like, there was an investment that came in from an appreciation, right? But anyway, yeah, you're totally right. That's a great way to put it. All the good stuff gets built in bear markets, right? Like, everybody gets all excited. during the bull markets and they start tossing money around mostly irresponsibly. And then luckily some people have have the presence of mind to, oh, you know, maybe we should start putting money into something that's actually sound that's,

that maybe this person has something that's worthwhile to build rather than just like a, you know, a dino or, you know, some sort of like casino or whatever it may be. be. And you see the projects that have presence of mind to go, okay, this isn't going to last forever. You know, there's going to be another bear market. And we need to prep for that. We need to make sure that we're ready, that we don't overextend ourselves and that we have time to keep our heads down and build when everybody thinks everything's dead again. And that's where, you know, we're seeing, we're seeing people working on important things. And the world at large is like totally oblivious, right? Like all they see is like whatever the tickers at and they have no clue like, oh, hey, there's just, you know, Ross Stevens just announced a lightning accelerator and he's going to be like flying in lightning devs from all over the world and putting together teams so that they can build out layer to infrastructure.

Like nobody, nobody, no normies are aware of that. But they will see the results of it come around to the next bull cycle. wow, look at all the cool shit you can do with Bitcoin. Look, it's fast and it's cheap and there's all these apps and these different things that I can use with it. And it's actually incredibly useful, much, much better than I thought it was a few years ago. And that's going to continue to play out, just like scaling did, you know, from 2017, 2018 to now. You know, lightning was, was to the normie wasn't even a twinkle in their eye. And now a lot of people are interacting with lightning on a regular basis.

So I think, yeah, it's a unique time. Cherish these bear markets. But I'll let Joey or Chris jump in here. Yeah, all I was going to say is, I'll be honest. I'm probably the most trivial background when it comes to Bitcoin of anybody you maybe ever had on here. But with that all said, it definitely, I agree with you. I think at this point, it's a matter of it's a way.

not if situation. And that's, I'll be kind of interested to get Joey's perspective on a couple of things too when he gets into ESG because there's a couple other areas like uranium that I feel very strongly in as well, that it's like you're just waiting, you know, and you just get positioned early on.

And if you stop looking at it from an investment standpoint and you start looking at it as like, it's money. So if I'm just, and you're not valuing it in dollars anymore and you're trying to just accumulate, accumulate, accumulate in an appropriate manner,

of course, then, all of these downturns just don't matter. You know, I think most people would just be better off removing the emotion altogether and just turning it off, not paying attention to what the number says and check back on it in five years.

And they would be just a lot less stressed and a lot better served. So, yeah, I mean, when it comes to, like, the specifics that you guys, you know, got into, I'm excited to continue to get educated on all this stuff. But I think it's just a matter of removing emotion and just being consistent with the discipline. discipline of the strategies you have in place.

It's so true, man. Consistency is so key. I'll just note, first of all, I'll just say that I was not expecting to talk price on why are we bullish. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk price on why are we bullish, which is great. Even more surprised here I come from a Bitcoin magazine guy, but we'll talk about that time, I guess. Yo, I go, man, that's hilarious.

That's hilarious. I don't know, I don't know how bullish you can be. I think I see at least, like, is that a piano behind you there? Mark? You haven't sold that. Yes. It's also curiously sitting on a chair. Very strange.

Very strange. Look at this chair. This is one of the worst chairs you could buy. This thing is barely hanging on, man. It's probably from the 70s or 80s. Look at all those books you got. What are you talking about? I see you investing in yourself.

They're all free. They're all free. It's all free. So the thing I would say about price and Bitcoin and the boom and bust. Boom and bust is a natural part of any market. Certainly a speculative. market like Bitcoin is sort of currently seen as by most of the market participants, not necessarily Bitcoin market participants, but market participants more broadly.

I don't think that's really up for debate. But this is the first bear market where there is zero doubt about the direction that central banks are going as far as the basement and printing. And to your point about whether or not they'll have to pivot in Q1 or Q2, I don't know, I don't know a ton about this, but I know that the bond market is pricing. basically a Q1 either freeze or cut in America, which is sort of the stalwart central bank as far as the lighthouse that our central banks are looking at. And we'll talk a bit about Europe when it comes to my topic.

But I think about all these things. And I think about the nature of the bear market in 2017, 18, and just how, you know, that bear market, you never know what causes these things, but there's at least some potential that the catalyst for that drop was the Coinbase B-Cash ninja launch. Like that's a different environment than we're in now. And I'll talk about that a bit later as well, but I would just say to people who are worried about volatility, being worried about volatility is fine. I understand that.

People are risk-averse. There's many studies that show that humans and other species are much more likely to protect what they have than they are to leave what they have and pursue something new or interesting. We've talked about that with Ben's topic. like we're talking about it now with Marks. It's not new or news to anyone. But I would just note that soon, I think, Mark, to your point,

there will not be a choice. People will be too, they'll be too used to the pain of monetary debasement of their salary not going up to match the price of goods and services, of governments pretending, certainly here where Ben and I are in Canada, you know, sending out ill-informed tweet threads that are completely nuked.

I know, I know. Listen, don't hurt your neck leaning back that far. But it really is something when the Bank of Canada is sending these tweets out and getting completely obliterated, rubbed out. To their credit, they haven't stopped allowing replies yet, but that can't be far away. All this stuff together tells me that the sort of general populace, the normie, is waking up to these things. And soon, there'll be two options, right? There'll be the riot in the street, which is the old way to do things to affect change. but there's also this other one now that's kind of creeping into modern society.

I know in Canada, I think about your sponsor, Ben, ours as well. ShakePay's got a million users, right? That's one in every 30 Canadians. If you cut that down to people who are between like 18 and 35 or 18 and 45, that's a pretty big percentage of the population. And I think that if I look at those numbers and the growth, as you guys both said, you know, Chris and Mark both, it's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when.

And positioning yourself early is important. and being able to weather these things in the meantime is important. But I really think we're going to be rewarded long term for our conviction. Yeah. Yeah. Can we for a moment just chat about that Bank of Canada thread? Because holy God, I don't know. Pull it up.

You have it? Pull it up. Yeah. Yeah. Let me. I got to grab me here because holy, good God. Yeah. I would say it's definitely the easiest era since I've been in Bitcoin to orange pill someone in that.

You're just like. Everywhere. Yeah. It's just like, what else do you fucking need to see for the love of God? It's terrible stuff, man. The bank of Canada here is terrible. Like, I'm not a big, like, politics guy, but I've been kind of half following the Peter Ducey, KJP, Corinjean-P, Jean-Pierre, back and force at the White House press hours or

whatever you guys call him over there. And, like, he grills around stuff, and she just has no idea. But people listening to this guy and going, oh, yeah, you know what? Maybe he's right. Maybe inflation is here to stay. Maybe my wages should be going up. Maybe the money printing is continuing all these things. Oh, here we go.

Here's the thread. Fantastic. You asked us if we printed cash to finance the federal government. We didn't keep reading to learn how we supported the economy from the shock of the pandemic. Hashtag Canadian econ asked the bank of Canada. And then it goes basically saying we took various measures. measures like buying bonds to support and ensure a strong and stable economy. We bought existing government bonds from banks on the open market.

Why? This helped them unblocked frozen markets at the start of the pandemic. It led households, companies, and governments access funding when they really needed it. Buying bonds also pulled down interest rates across the economy. This lowered the cost of borrowing to help Canadians get through the pandemic. We did not print cash to pay the bonds. We bought the bonds with settlement. balance is a kind of central bank reserve, not with bank notes.

What's the difference? Settlement balances don't permanently add to the money supply. Unlike cash, we can remove those reserves from the system. And you can see that we've been doing just that. Look at the chart. That's a chart crime. You know who's good guy to ask about this? Is crypto voices Matthew Machinskis, who does the monetary base, the M2 update.

He does it on Tales from the Crypt every quarter. But he also does a Twitter account. And I guarantee if you look in the replies, that fucking chart is there. And the thing spikes to high heaven. Okay. The thing goes from Lucifer to St. Peter in about one fucking month.

And in that fucking month, the Bank of Canada is telling you that nothing fucking happened. Get real, man. It's not possible. Everyone knows that something is up. Everyone knows it. There you go. Here's the month and liabilities of the Bank of Canada,

starting in 2020. money and it's just, I mean, the- But guys, they didn't print bills. Yeah. Okay. Literally. Literally, guys, we didn't physically print money. It's, it's, oh my God.

Like, it's unbelievable that anyone buys this. And I think less and less people are buying it because it's impossible to ignore now. It's everywhere, right? That's the whole point. That's the whole point. But there's, I mean, a severe economic illiteracy, like, for sure. I think that unfortunately probably does work on a lot of people. Oh, that's, oh, very good.

Oh, okay. But I also think, go ahead. No, no, no. I'm, I should not. I was just going to say, even if you're illiterate, though, you can still lose confidence. And I think that's what's probably going to continue to take place is even the people that don't know anything about the monetary system are just going to get less and less confident and eventually going to have to wake up to something else. That's a big, I mean, I think they use that as sort of like a way to, you know, it sort of exclude. people from the financial system is like this like walled garden of you you don't know like you don't know

it's a nomenclature cage that you can not fucking penetrate unless you have an education that they approved of before you got it it's insane right this is but now we're realizing no one has any idea like there's no adults in charge right it's like no no one has any idea what's going on so why why is anyone insecure about their financial well-being when it's like these are the leaders This is our bank telling us, well, we didn't print bills. Yeah. You know, it's like... Because like, okay, so this is a conservative politician previously was...

He was a leader of the Conservative Party. Yeah, he was leading... He was leading... He was leading... ...the conservative party. So he's tweeting out all of these, like, actual statistics from the Bank of Canada and saying, like, they absolutely did inject cash into the economy. Here's the proof that it happened.

And it basically, they bought up all the bonds because there was no demand for them on the open market. And you get people responding like, I believe the Bank of Canada. Can you imagine tweeting that, like replying in that threat? Like there's so many. There's people being like somebody else down there in the comment section was like, sir, you are not a qualified economist or something like that. And, and like the responses are like, every single economist said there would be no inflation. None.

They expected no inflation whatsoever with with unprecedented amounts of cash injection into, into the economy. They all said there would be zero. It's unbelievable to me. The bank, the bank is running this shell game, right, where they basically tell you that they didn't print cash, which is true. They didn't print cash. but M1 and M2 is not just cash. And to quote another good Canadian podcast, the Looney Hour,

not all money is cash, but all cash is money. And so when you put those things together, you can sort of play this sleight of hand where you can say, you know, we printed bonds, whatever, to your point earlier about this like walled garden of terminology and processes that at the end of the day, all just lead to the number go up. But these guys can pretend all they want,

that it's some other mechanism and it's beyond your understanding. But trust me, we needed to do it and don't worry about it. And we're going to ease all the pain that Canadians are feeling with these six tweets about inflation. And you can read more in the thread if you want. It's unfucking believable. And by the way, for you Americans are the Bank of Canada governor here, the equivalent to Powell in the States, spoke to labor leaders, union leaders and business leaders.

I think three weeks ago, A, Ben, I forget, and said basically, do not give your people raises to match inflation, because if you do, we're going to be in trouble. And I look at that and I think, okay, like, I'm done with this guy.

This guy, he cannot gain any additional support. And we have to do everything we can as Bitcoiners to stop this kind of stuff from continuing because people are hurting, man. It may not be us, but certainly people are hurting in the current macro environment. It's unfair that they're being lied to

every single day by these people. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's super, super unfortunate. And it's even more unfortunate that that people don't know where to direct their anger, right? And so they see, well, this is the manga Canada. And it says that this is happening. And, you know, it was, you know, there's always a scapegoat, right?

There's, oh, it was, it was this. It was this factor that was, we had no control over it. There's no way we could have seen this inflation come. you know, all of those typical things or blaming it on, you know, Putin or whatever it may be. It's just, it's, it's very curious, you know, if somebody's listening to this and you're thinking that I'm, I'm trying to explain away the actual reason for inflation. Just ask yourself why inflation was already going up so much prior to anything that happened in Ukraine, right? It was already on that trajectory well before anything happened earlier this year. So I don't know.

I guess let's round this topic out. Joey, I'm going to keep it with you then. And I'm going to let you continue down your rabbit hole with your reason for being bullish. So I don't know what kind of a segue you had in mind, but it sounded like you were already kind of alluding to what you wanted to talk about. This is a fine segue, Ben. I want to talk about the ESG narrative collapsing in front of us, specifically the E in the ESG narrative. And what it means for Bitcoin more broadly. Now, I'm going to push back on a guest you had last week, Dennis Porter.

He's not here to defend himself, so I'm not going to go too hard on him. But I do something to say about this carbon neutrality thing that continues to pop up. And I think he's a champion of for better or worse. I would argue for worse. Let's talk a bit about the Eurozone energy crisis, okay? Germany and other European countries started shutting down nuclear plants just around the time Fukushima happened. And I don't know if you guys know this, but Angela Merkel moved on those nuclear plants in Germany about three days after Fukushima happened. So to pretend that this is anything but a political move for appearances, I think is incorrect and maybe uninformed,

there's no way they could have known what the cause of that accident was and what the repercussions of that accident were that soon after they happened or that soon after it happened. So I think this was a purely political move, which is something we'll continue to talk about here during my topic. And I think that it's obvious now that this was a problem and continues to be a problem, this sort of political for appearances action. Europeans this winter are going to have to choose, there's zero doubt about this. It's going to have to choose between heating their home and feeding their family. Right now, it's about a thousand euros a megawatt hour. Ben, do you know what it costs for one megawatt hour right now in Ontario? No, I don't.

It's about 130 Canadian dollars compared to a thousand euros in Germany. Okay. So this idea that like things are not quite as bad, that Europe's winning the war, the sanctions are working, like you can turn on whatever 24 hour news network you want, whether it's CBC or MSNBC or whatever. they'll always pitch this to you, this sort of propagandized view of that war. This is a loss at the moment by almost any measure. This is, I think, going to expose ESG, green and all this other nonsense as the luxury belief that it is. No one actually cares about these things. And when they're forced to choose between reliable, cheap, efficient energy and putting a sticker on their Yeti,

about whether or not they support ESG, the choice is going to become very obvious. I also think that this story that's kind of developing now this morning, there was some talk about this, and I think earlier this week as well, about the European Union and G7 nations putting a cap on the price of Russian oil. This is a disaster waiting to happen. So you guys may or may not notice, listeners and viewers may or may not know this,

but Russia at the moment is sells. oil to China who is selling oil back to Europe at a markup, truly an incredible state of affairs as far as whether or not these sanctions are working. If we want to bring it back a little closer to home as far as reliable energy and the repercussions of ignoring reliable energy, California banned or is trying to ease out internal combustion engine ice vehicles by 2035. and today and yesterday, obviously this story that's making headlines is the grid can't handle you charging your electric vehicle now. So unless you're either getting on a two-wheel or like the heel, toe express to go to the grocery store, like you're fucking staying home, man. You can't go.

Sorry about your luck. This insanity is only allowed because people don't have any understanding about how energy works. And we've talked about this on some other topics tonight about how the average person just doesn't have the bandwidth to digest all this stuff. day to day, month to month, week to week, whatever. They can't figure it out, partially because they're all the time, but also partially because the sources they're used to using or they, you know, are told they should be using or spinning them a yarn that's just so far from the truth that it's irrelevant to the actual situation at hand.

I think that people are spending too much time in that regard, judging these ideas on their morality, as opposed to their results. We talk about ethics and morality of saving the planet, this, that, the other, but the results really are what should matter. In real life, results matter more than what the intended consequences of the actions are, what the intended outcomes are, all these things that are sort of pie in the sky, intangible at the moment where you have to make the decision. It's very difficult to do this when you're faced with decisions about whether or not to spend money heating your house or feeding your family. And we're going to find that in Europe very shortly. I hope not in America and Canada, but you just never know.

I would also say that the framing of these ideas is starting to be exposed. This idea that there's alternative energy to oil and gas. It's horseshit. It's fucking horseshit. There's no alternative energy, okay? You can put a hamster on a wheel and tell me that it's alternative energy because maybe it'll power a light. If I give that little guy some Adderall and some encouragement, he might be able to light

up a small room in my home for 10 or 15 minutes. But chances are he's not going to be able to actually be an alternative to the reliable, cheap and consistent energy that I see from oil and gas and from other petro products. The other thing I think that's going to come shortly, and we're kind of already seeing this already, is that to your point, Chris, and I don't want to step on your toes if we're going to talk about nuclear, but nuclear is the obvious solution to this stuff. And it's really an IQ test of sorts for people who are all about green and renewables, right? either you think that this little pellet the size of your finger or your thumb can heat your house for a year and it's more or less clean, more or less reliable, more or less safe, or you think that this thing is going to kill you and your neighbors and there's going to be some kind of nuclear war that breaks out because people are using this stuff as energy and it lends itself to weapons and all these things.

you know to this end i think at this stage either you know if you're against nuclear to quote duneberg uh who i highly recommend paying for i can't believe i'm saying that's the only substack i pay for to quote duneberg at this stage if you're against nuclear you're either victim of a propaganda campaign or you're an architect of that propaganda campaign and there is no other option at this stage. This stuff is easily, easily, easily, the savior we're looking for all over the world. And no one is talking about it at least not the moment, although that is changing little by little. I'll also note that ETFs investing vehicles that were ESG a month ago are now no longer ESG. It turns out that if you just put ESG on the title and still have Apple, Microsoft, and Raytheon

portfolio, you may not actually be environmentally, socially, or governance-wise, you know, really lending yourself to the to the to the the the um mores of the day the smartest people in the room are always making money off this stuff but no one actually believes in it okay this is a problem for me and to dennis's point last week about whether or not we should be embracing carbon neutrality for something that bitcoin mining you know adheres to aspires to pick your pick your word there i think it's just fucking wrong man and i get that you have to talk to politicians a certain way, but I think it's just fucking wrong. And I'll tell you why, I'm going to show you here. I'm going to read out this process that governments,

investment houses, you know, what have you, view as carbon neutral. And so reason I got the big tree energy shirt on, a friend of our show who's in the chat earlier talking about Europe needing big tree energy for the winter. That's exactly why I got the fucking shirt. I think it was Yochi Gamma or Narwhal Tacos. I forget who it was. But listen to this process. All across the U.S. Southeast, massive industrial feller bunchers, which are like tree, I guess, choppers, gatherers, like these big machines, are ruthlessly cutting down and stacking mature trees. The resulting logs are loaded onto trailers and hauled by diesel-powered trucks to wood pellet factories. Once they're there, the logs are milled, dried, and pressed through specialty

extruders at high pressure, all of which require significant primary energy and raised local pollution issues. The resulting pellets are transported to coastal ports, again using diesel, where they are loaded onto cargo ships. The diesel-powered cargo ships make their way across the ocean, emitting CO2 along each of their several thousands of miles traveled. Once in Europe, the pellets are burned, emitting more CO2 per unit of heat generated than any other fuel source used at scale today, including coal by a wide margin. That process, according to our lords and Saviors, Larry Fink, et cetera, his ill, governments, all that, that's carbon neutral. That's a carbon neutral process. You can fuck yourself on that, okay? And I would love to hear Dennis's rebuttal to this

carbon neutrality shit, because if you think that this is carbon neutral, like there's bridges that many people are going to be knocking on your door to try and sell you. Bridge salesman will be knocking your fucking door down if you think that this is a legitimate cause. These people that were trying to adhere, trying to appease have never done anything. but try and kill the Bitcoin network, but try and kill your freedom, but try and kill your ability to garner wealth and build something for generations to come. They've never done anything but this. Why do we fucking care what they think?

Are we really talking about curing favor in a system that we think is about to fail, to gain funding into currency we think is worthless, to appease people we think are only going to move the goalpost? Are we really doing this? This is what it seems like we're doing in the mining space. And I would lump this mining council into this too. We don't need these people. This always ends the same way with a waste of time, a waste of money, a waste of energy,

and a new goal that we didn't know was coming because these people just don't want us to succeed and they'll do anything to make sure it doesn't happen. Don't lose sight of the prize here, man. Because while we're talking about Bitcoin being energy efficient, central banks are gunning for us now. There is no unicorn onesie-wearing clown that Bitcoiners have to care about it. at the moment. Smart contracts don't matter. The merge doesn't matter. There is no war about, you know, if you look back at like 2017, 18, 19, there was commentary and discussions about, well, Bitcoin can't scale. Well, now we got lightning. Well, Bitcoin isn't going to work because

it can't hold these imaginary cats that I'm breeding with people I don't know that are selling for 100th during a bull market. Those are the enemies we had five years ago. Now the enemies we have, and I don't want to say enemies, because I don't necessarily think these people, are enemies. But like, if you look at the quality of anti-Bitcoin commentary from guys like Mike Green, guys like Dumburg, guys like Grant Williams, guys like Eric Townsend, these guys are seasoned pros who've made a fortune in markets, understand markets. They think Bitcoin's got some shortcomings. I look at governments. Same thing. Ben, you know better than anyone. The governments are coming for people who are embracing Bitcoin and trying to get out of the fiat system. We cannot be wasting

our time with how much smoke is coming out of the stacks. a Bitcoin mining facility. We cannot be wasting our time with this, okay? We cannot be more concerned about the contents of a chimney than Santa Claus is. We cannot be doing these things at the moment because right now the fight is really on. CBDCs are really coming. Governance is really increasing. Restrictions are really tightening up.

Capital controls are really starting to show themselves. In Canada, $30,000 buy limits per year on any token, not BTC or Lightcoin or whatever. And though you may not agree with buying those other tokens, the idea that it's not going to come towards Bitcoin, I think is wrong and misinformed. And so I would just say, don't lose sight of the end goal here in favor of something that's trendy at the moment. And I just think that we've gone too far in that direction. Yeah. Yeah. And to your tune of moving the goalposts, like as soon as you start saying, oh, well, it's,

it's green and it's actually cutting emissions and it's eating up waste energy and everything, then the goalpost, the immediate shift is, well, that energy could have been used for. Always. Insert. It's the opportunity cost argument comes. And again, from people who don't understand energy and the concept of you can't just take energy from a hydrodham in rural China and port it over to charge. your Tesla in New York City, right? Like, it doesn't, that's not easily done.

And there's going to be energy loss in that process. It's just not how energy works. So, yeah, I mean, there's always going to be a shifting of goalpost. The beautiful thing about it is Bitcoin is kind of that reality check of how energy actually functions. Yeah. It kind of, it highlights the reality of the situation. And even in a dystopian hellscape where all of these things get banned in certain jurisdictions and they really come for everybody, it's a global phenomenon.

And there's going to be jurisdictions that, you know, flip the bird and say, well, we'll, we'll mine it. And those ones will flourish. and then there's going to be, you know, a lot of neighboring countries and jurisdictions that are thinking, huh, maybe I should get in on this. And so, you're spot on, Ben. You're absolutely spot on. The jurisdictional arbitrage is,

it's an important piece of this whole puzzle. And I hope you're right that countries, you know, I don't want to say that we need a first world country to do it, but I think it would be important if a first world country looked at this rationally and said, you know what, we're going to do this. We think it's a good idea. We want your brain power. We want your mining operations.

We want all that stuff. We haven't seen it yet. But I think that we're coming to a flashpoint where first world countries are feeling pain now in a way they've never felt pain before. And so let's see what they do. Let's see how they act. Mark, Chris, you want to dive in here? Any commentary on this? Yeah, I mean, I got a few things.

First of all, I'm so glad you brought up Doombird because a lot of the macro education. side that I've kind of rabbit hole I've gone down has come from him. I think there's no better guy in the space. The stuff he puts out is incredible. I mean, it can definitely open your eyes, take you down in some ways a dark but very obvious and realistic rabbit hole that it does exist with it. You touched on, I never thought we'd be talking about this topic, so I'm pumped about it because being able to get into uranium and also talk about, you know, what I'm going to be bullish on here in a few minutes. Those two kind of go, they're side by side as far as the thing. I'm the most interested in.

But I actually live within about 10 minutes of a nuclear reactor myself. And you start looking at, you know, the carbon deaths that go along with things like coal burning and things like that. And it's like you said, it's so obvious. And it's like if you turn a blind eye and say, we're not going to do nuclear, you're right. You're part of the problem. And you obviously just don't understand. But my biggest concern with what's going on is we've done such a disservice.

when it comes to putting regulations up with mining companies. I'm talking specifically with nuclear mining uranium, that it's not like we can just flip on a switch. I mean, this is going to take years for them to play catch-up. So what you talked about in Europe, I hope that's not what plays out. I hope it's a very warm winter over there, but I do have some hesitation of what is going to play out,

and I don't think it's going to be pretty. But it's going to be a massive wake-up call, and I expect you're seeing it already. Japan announced they're going to start turning reactors back on. Solely but surely you're seeing even U.S. facilities like in Illinois who said they're going to extend the life on reactors. Oh, is that right in U.S. too? I didn't know that. Yeah, I think Illinois, they were going to close them down. And then last minute they decided to keep them open.

And I believe that's even, there may even have been one in California that the same thing played out for. I'm not positive on that. But you look at like what China's doing. And China's building, you know, 50 some odd reactors. The demand poll that's going to be created from all of this, they're years and years and years behind. With what's currently in service, they're behind. And now you're looking at probably doubling the fleet of reactors. And if that's your only option, and you've made it so difficult for mining companies to get permits and get things rolling,

you know, that's part of the reason why I'm positioned where I am, because I just, I believe that the, the overshoot is going to be incredible. And, you know, there's, there's a ton of opportunity in it from an investment standpoint, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be able to play catch up when it comes to actual production. So that's where, you know, it's, it's kind of a double-edged sword where like, yeah, there's an opportunity here, but are we really going to be able to make up the difference along the way without doing all kinds of these other nonsensical projects like burning logs from, you know, my state. I literally see them rounding them up in, you know, in South Carolina and taking them by truckload down to the ports.

And it's like it's happening right here. And people are just kind of blind to the reality of what's actually going on. The, they call that biomass. Is that what it's called? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds pretty green to me.

I don't know, guys. Maybe we're wrong on this one. That was my nickname in college, biomass. It's funny, though. Like, biomass is one thing. But then I was going to write a little bit, the thing of here about like even corn-based fuels, right? Like Europe, you know, given the state of affairs there,

you know, Europe for a minute talked about the sort of the worthiness of corn-based fuels during a season where they're almost assuredly going to have. a shortage in that kind of food. Like I just, these people are unserious men. They're, they're either incompetent or intentionally burning the system down. And I hate to think the latter is true,

but fuck me if it's not getting harder every day to argue against that position. It just seems to be almost impossible to be that stupid for this long. But here we are. I wanted to, because we're on the nuclear discussion, I learned this about France when I was there. Did you guys know that France is the energy that they produce is 70% nuclear?

Okay. Now, did you know what happens with that energy due to, so they can't just use it in France? Because of certain regulations within the EU, they're forced to sell it externally and then buy other forms of energy. from other surrounding countries to import. So they can't just like use, they can't just be like, great, we're 70% nuclear. This is super efficient, you know, our emissions are super low, great.

No, they have to sell off nuclear energy to other jurisdictions nearby and then they have to import other stuff. It's like, it's bonkers. And people wonder why the Eurozone is so fucked. It's just, yeah. I do wanna say though, like getting back to kind of the like,

engaging in the ESG matrix. Like it's something we talk about a lot at the editorial with Bitcoin Magazine. We're like, I do think there's something to be said about engaging, you know, within their models to show that an open competition system, you know, is more efficient within their own modeling than like some coerced competition or coerced cooperation, right? And I think that there is a way to sort of fight and disprove the ESG narrative within their own modeling using Bitcoin as the sort of buyer and seller. Because like, you know, I agree that it is sort of, it's like you're either the propaganders or the propagandes. And like I think like we're not trying to appease the propaganders. Like we're trying to like help the entranced, you know. And I think that there's something, you know, sort of, you know, important about being able to like sort of, like, I agree.

I don't think we really should care about the merge or stable coins or all this, except for the fact that, you know, we can learn from the merge like, hey, that's regulatory capture. Holy shit. The state just took over Ethereum. They fucked up on a super big consensus level. Like, you know, holy shit, they're arresting, you know, open source developers. Like there's stuff there to learn about what's going to happen with Bitcoin. And so engaging logically within those worlds, perhaps playing devil's advocate. But I think that there is something there that's powerful, just like making sure we remember why we're doing it.

And it's not to appease the propaganders, but the people that are getting affected by it. Does that make sense? I don't know, Mark. I don't know. You know, I don't know, man. I think like I guess I would ask you. And I'm not saying you're like a spokesman. for this point of view, though I think there are people who do have this. Yeah, there are people

who do have this viewpoint. I would just, I would ask, when is this ever been successful? Would that be my next question? If you show me a time it's been successful, I'm happy to entertain that it may be successful here. But the fact of the matter is that generally speaking, this sort of thing has not been successful. And in fact, I would also say that if you start to play, you know, in another animal's cage, the likelihood that you make it out alive is very low. And so I would prefer not to do that if I could avoid it. And, you know, I think... We're in the cage, though.

We're in the cage no matter what. We're in the cage. We're not immune to propaganda and narratives, you know? Like, Chief Energy has a lot of narratives, but also cheap energy isn't a narrative. Well, I mean, there's, there is some precedent for new things coming along that flew in the face of how things were currently done and then taking, like, private option, right? Like, you have things like electricity and, and. vehicles where there were entrenched interests in some way, shape, or form. And I don't necessarily think it was through trying to, I don't know,

trying to appease that current system. It was just more of like the Uber approach of like standing there and doing this. And then the reality of how much better what you've introduced just gradually seeps out to regular people and they adopt it. So I don't know. I'm on the fence with this one. Like, yeah,

it's tough. If there's somebody that's really stuck on it, but they, they're, they have to be looking at it through that lens, but it's somebody that you know and care about. Then I don't know. Do you go that route of being like,

well, looking through that lens, technically speaking, it's actually better than most industries in that realm. Or do you just say, listen, your entire frame that you're looking at this through is kind of horseshit and we need to reevaluate how you're looking at it. I just worry that we're over the target, you know, and the pressure is coming from a lot of different angles and it's inviting, you know, quote unquote, productive discussion with politicians and governments about Bitcoin's role in a existing system. I just, I look at this and I think, you know, there's some, there may be some value in having these discussions if and only if you think that Bitcoin is going to destroy the system regardless of what concessions you make.

If you, if you think that the concessions you make are immaterial to the eventual outcome and that you can maybe, you know, ease the friction of adoption or ease the pain along the way from governments or regulators, maybe you do it. But I just don't think there's enough evidence to say at the moment that governments will, they will pull the pin on a grenade they're holding and run to you to make sure that they take you down with them. It seems to me that that's the sort of, you know, MO of these guys. Yeah, no, absolutely, no arguments there. I think appeasing to the state is a losing and stupid effort, honestly. But again, I think focusing back on the people entranced by the state, you know, not so much like, I don't think we should try to appease, you know, like the Paris Accord and that stuff. I think the Green New Deal was like kind of a, you know, like that was like a midterm election political technique. Like that bill had absolutely no chance of ever being a thing ever.

Like honestly, it just really didn't. That wasn't. And then it blew up and became this narrative beyond what it ever was supposed to be. now it's just so ridiculous. So I don't know. Yeah, it's tough. Like, I definitely don't think we should be something for states that have just proven in every way in COVID with lockdowns.

It's like the state just like shut down the economy. Like the politicians destroyed local businesses, destroyed bodily autonomy, all this stuff. Like they did that. It wasn't a virus. The virus didn't do any of that. And, you know, I think we have a lot of reasons to be distrusting in the state and we shouldn't appease them. Fuck them.

But there's also a lot of lost people that are really smart. that like, you know, want to decrease the planet by a centigrade. And like maybe Bitcoin can do that for them somehow. And it's like, the good, it's for you too. Use it. You know? Yeah, I think it's just a matter of like managing your energy, though. You know, if you can pour into people who are willing to learn and are willing to have

a critical conversation, because otherwise it'll just wear you down. You know, people at least have to, they have to meet you part of. the way, even if it's 25% of the way there. But if you're constantly having to make the effort, then I just don't, I don't think it's a worthy cause. And part of me thinks that we're just going to be better served to address those people that are willing to learn and let the government sleep in the bed that they created. And when it burns down, it's going to be ugly, but it's going to allow something much better to be built in relatively short order, in my opinion. Yeah. I like the idea of planting seeds with people that

are receptive to it. And it doesn't have to be like an all at once thing. It's just plant that idea. I mean, that happened to a whole bunch of people here in Canada earlier this year. It's a slow burn kind of thing. But when push came to shove and you get your bank account shut down and you have no way to transact and and donations are being cut off at every turn and then all of a sudden one thing

works, uh, it makes you pay attention. And that's touch point number one for a lot of people. And there'll be more touch points. and they'll say, I remember that this actually worked and I got some money and I was able to survive a little bit longer. A lot of good memes there, Ben, by the way, slow burn, planting seeds, all good biomass memes. I appreciate you guys contributing to the cause there.

We're using their lexicon, you know. How dare you? How dare you? Yeah, but I think, you know, there's going to be a lot of that. And, yeah, to Chris's point, yeah, if they're willing to meet you, just part of the way again you can you can have that first touch point with them where you you you you bring it up you don't have to push it too hard and then they will encounter it again that's not even a question um so just start and uh but yeah if somebody is like no i i fully hate this thing

probably probably not worth your time you know yes but there's i totally agree but you know we got to be selective of our energy but like man again again it is is it not the easiest time ever to you know to show people a new way it's just like any any sector you want to look at it's like yeah oh yeah there's never been more more opportunities to point to to everything that's happening in clown world right now and be like see yeah totally i told you i mean told people that told you know like totally towing like the msnbc line are now like whoa what the fuck is this this is insane like these you know like the wool is really really, or the curtain or whatever metaphor, the fabric hanging has totally been pulled aside.

And it's just like, this is the, this is what's running the show. Really. Like everyone can see the wizard now for the first time, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he's naked. He's wearing no clothes. Yeah.

The wizard has no clothes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the best thing he's got going for him. Well, let's, uh, I enjoy this chat. Let's, uh, let's continue, uh, down the line.

Chris, I'm going to. to let you segue into your reason. It sounds like we were kind of already starting into some of your thoughts there. So I'll let you continue. What did you want to dive down? Yeah. So you guys touched on the willingness to take action a couple different times. And that's what I'm finding is as I've made this transition, I'll kind of tell a little backstory here in a few minutes. But I'm bullish on men taking action in their lives and stepping up. And I'm going to specifically talk about men because that's who I'm working with on a day-to-day basis.

But I also think this is happening in female circles as well. But people trying to take back themselves, their self-belief, their health, and their families. And I think that's slowly but surely we're kind of seeing that play out. And let me kind of back up here for just a couple of minutes. And I'll explain kind of how I'll explain kind of how. I got to this point in my life. And so I went through the whole process of college and high school. That whole, you know, this is what you're supposed to be doing.

You need to go get a degree. You need to do the right things. You know, went through, was able to be successful with all that, but like never felt like that was for me. I picked a career that I was interested in somewhat because I played a lot of sports growing up. And from there, picked physical therapy, got into physical therapy. at that point I had a distraction and I had a purpose.

I was racing Iron Man on a pretty high level for a number of years. So that allowed me to pour all my energy into that. And I didn't really have to, I shouldn't say worry, but I was still kind of naive and blind to how broken the healthcare system was. And then at that point, I left Iron Man for the right reasons. I got married and it was taking too much of my time and wanted to focus on my family. But it left a kind of a gaping hole in my life. And then everything that was negative in my career, all the student dad, all the things that I had accumulated over the years kind of came full circle.

And I spent three or four years just in a very dark place, even when it comes to having our first child and just lack of presence feeling very numb and just going through the motions and just reached the point. Honestly, for me, COVID was the best thing that ever happened. it gave me an opportunity to reflect and take some time and realize that, you know, I had been doing a bunch of self-education on the financial markets. And that's eventually how I found some money. And from there, it was like, okay, like, I can have an idea of how to take care of myself financially here. But I need to take back my health first. And I need to take back my mindset. And so those things eventually kind of led me to Twitter.

I was off with social media for a long time and had kind of. kind of isolated myself, had a hard time having conversations. You know, it's really hard to have conversations with people locally in my perspective to, you know, you get into some of these rabbit holes and these people, they just want to talk about sports. They want to talk about going to the bar, how busy they are at work. And it was just all, you know, bullshit to me. I didn't want to deal with it anymore. So I just was like, no, I'm going to continue to, you know, do my own thing. And unfortunately, that just led to, like I said, isolation. So long story short, my brother was like, we got to do something with this. He was kind of in the same situation

a few years behind me. And we just started connecting with guys on Twitter. And it was like this epiphany of, wow, there are other people that feel exactly the same way we do. And so we started talking to them, building relationships. We even had a little podcast going for a while. And it literally changed our lives because we realize that we're not alone, that there are a ton of guys who are trying to do things bigger than themselves besides talk about sports and, you know, how many beers they drink on the weekends and how much their wives annoy them. And it was so at that point it was just like game on and kind of one thing led to another. And now, you know, we're in the process of we're building men, basically.

We're creating men's groups and we're working one-on-one getting, you know, we kind of trying to destroy the dad-bod, as I like to say, is taking guys who think that their best days are behind them and calling bullshit on that and trying to get them to level up. And it's the energy that I'm seeing and the energy of the guys that I've been able to connect with and they're doing some similar things and just trying to kind of call out all the nonsense in the system and realize that it really starts with the personal development side of things. And so that's really what I'm very bullish on is the energy that's being generated from that. the families that are being, I mean, I think that if we want to fix something, yes, we have to fix the money, no question.

We also have to fix the family, which they've worked really, really hard to destroy. And so if we can continue to kind of build those two things simultaneously, having men step up and not be afraid to lead their families because they actually believe in themselves again. And going back to what you were talking about earlier too, about skills, you know, we just go through the motions. we don't have purpose and we don't develop any skills. And so that's kind of one of the narratives I'm trying to challenge to do is like, okay, you're calling, you're saying, well, I'm fat, I'm lazy, I'm not a public speaker, I'm not a salesman, all these different things that they've convinced themselves are not true, or are true, I should say.

And as a result, you know, then we've got to kind of break those things down and change those self-deprecating thoughts into affirmations. And from there, you know, you take guys that are in isolation, and they may not know what the hell they're trying to accomplish, but they know they're trying to accomplish something. And when you bring those type of people who are actually ready to take action together, and it's literally like life-changing stuff. I mean, I go into these men's groups. And even if I'm like kind of tired at night, I come out of there and it's like 11 p.m. and I want to go do some push-ups. Like, I'm just, I am jacked up because you can just see these guys just. lighting up and it's just creating relationships and you know that's affecting them on a personal

level. It's going to affect their kids. And so it just has like generational impact. And so that's just what I've been really fired up about. This has only been a few months into this process. I actually got fired back in end of May and I basically said, I'm never going back to this shit again. I'm going to do my own thing. And yeah, I've kind of never looked back. So that's what I'm bullish on. I think again, it starts with with building ourselves. building our families and then from there, you know, we can, we can change communities and have a whole bunch of guys and a whole bunch of people just slip in the bird and saying, we're not going to play by your rules anymore.

Unreal. You're going to be a fucking star for sure. Listen, I am so with that, man. Like, I do some work here in Hamilton, Ontario, with a men's addiction center. And to your point, Chris, like the number of things that, you know, you think, are insurmountable as a guy who's, you know, lived, lived a pretty good life. Like I never had problems with addiction. My family's, you know, healthy sort of, you know, what you would expect from a two-parent

home. The things you think are insurmountable, when you watch these guys who come from so much less than you, have so many more struggles than you, get together with a group of their peers, as you mentioned, and find out, I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one going through this. I can lean on these people for support and they'll lean on me for support. and that's empowering and all those things together, you make a new man out of these guys.

And that's what really builds communities. You send them back out into their neighborhoods, into their families, into their jobs. And you know, you're sort of witnessing a transformation that you're fortunate to get to see that not a lot of people get to experience in their lives. It's incredible stuff.

I'm glad to hear you doing that where you are. Yeah, I appreciate that, Joey. It's something that, you know, we don't realize growing up in such a comfortable society, how we can still be so broken if that makes any sense. And as a result, it's really hard for us. I think as a species, we are so comfortable.

We're taught to seek comfort because that's the way we've evolved is, you know, when it comes to things like food and Netflix and all these like cheap dopamine hits that we take, you know, day after day after day, there's really nothing telling us to try to push through to do something else. And it has to become like an intentional thing because otherwise we just get complacent and the level of anxiety and things like that that, yeah, we may be able to pay the bills and put food on the table, but there's just an emptiness of going through the motions day after day.

I love this because I see more and more of it on like Bitcoin Twitter. God damn right you do, Ben. God damn right you do. And I don't know what the link is, whether it's people like driven people are. are being attracted to Bitcoin or Bitcoin is creating a drive within people. I think it's probably a little bit of both depending on who you are. But I definitely know that a lot of people got into Bitcoin and were a little lost and

then found something they're super passionate about. But through that, found kind of communities of other people to interact with where there is this kind of low time preference. Let's build ourselves and reclaim our health, reclaim our self-sovereignty, reclaim our, in some instances, masculinity, depending on whether you're talking about guys or girls. But regardless, there's this, this urge to improve upon oneself when you're no longer subject to the nihilism brought on by the state. And I think that it's a unique thing. It's, again, it's everybody's kind of journey through this is different.

And it's not like there aren't missteps. God knows I've got my vices. And, you know, I'm already, I'd say one of my number one things is, is staying on a healthy diet. You know, I'm very easy to kind of deviate from that. And I do, I genuinely think I have some sort of like a, like a, a, a, a, sugar addiction because like, you know, there's, there's times where I'm like, I, you know, I need something sweet. I need like my awful fiat can of Coke.

What's your, what's your vice, man? What's your big one? What do you like? If you get, if you're like, uh, craving a little sugar 7 p.m. What are you getting? Uh, I'm probably if there, if, you know, if my daughter has some sort of like, you know, chocolate or something in the house, I'll grab some of that or if, because my wife, everyone's while, if we do have a bear average, she just, you know, goes for the simplistic, she'll grab like a rum and Coke or something. And I'll dive into those Coke cans and I'll start, I'll start sucking them back. And it's, and it's horrible. And I, you know, and I, and I'll go on stints like where I'll go cold turkey and I'll just like swear it off. And once I'm kind of through that, you know,

the initial like few days of awful pain, like getting off of that sugar, then I'm pretty good. But then as soon as you get like a taste of it, it's like right back into it. And I find it's so difficult. But it's it's I want to better myself and get away from that. And I'm lucky enough that thus far my metabolism has been good enough that it's never too horrible when I go down one of those paths. Like I notice it myself. I'm like, oh, the weight is no longer here. It's a little bit more centralized.

So if I become too centralized, we'll say, then it's a problem. So I need to decentralize the weight in my body and then I'll be happy. But yeah, you know, the building of oneself, I think, comes hand in hand with kind of the circles that a lot of us interact with here in Bitcoin. And I love hearing about people bettering themselves, even just like not even referring to Bitcoin, but people that want to take the time to learn a new skill. to kick a bad habit to spend more time with their families and building out those relationships. Those are such important things to focus on. And I think in Fiat land where you have a nine to five job and you go there every single day, you come home, you slam a bunch of beer and you have a crappy fast food meal and then

you watch Netflix until you pass out and then you hit repeat five days a week. I think it's nice to to deviate from that and realize there's something more. You're drowning mediocrity in Fiatland. It's everywhere. It's like this constant cinder block tied around your ankle. You just can't, you know, get above water. And like we talked about earlier with with bitcoins especially, there's not, there's not this crab bucket mentality, but God damn it, man, everywhere else.

You know, people will ask you, like, why do you get up at 5.30 in the morning for what? Like, you go to the gym every day for what? Like, you're not supposed to go every day. You can't recover. You got some, you literally got some guy whose way size is a bigger number than his fucking IQ. And he's telling you that you can't go to the gym every morning because the recovery is not going to be okay. Like, okay, man, like I appreciate the commentary, I guess, but I don't want to hear it. And nine to five jobs, you know, everyone who's had a nine to five job knows this. There's, there's always much like Bitcoin Twitter, much like, you know, a show like tonight, much like the communities you build in your, you know, your hometown, your neighborhood,

there's always going to be a few people who are feeling the same way you are about that situation, about the way that those things are going. You know what I mean? You just got to find them. And just takes one person to speak out and start the sort of start the ball rolling downhill. And you're going to find that those things really gain traction very quickly. Yeah. Yeah, a couple of things that, well, Ben, you mentioned earlier the idea of sovereignty.

For me, this is just my belief on the side of like why Bitcoin, ties into it is I think that to some extent, yes, we need to fix the money side of it, but like, that doesn't make you sovereign. You know, like, Bitcoin alone doesn't make you sovereign if you're, if you're a diabetic at 40 years old and you're dependent on a broken health care system. So, you know, I think that the health care side of it and taking control of that yourself and then taking control your family, like you can't have it all just because you have a bunch of Bitcoin. So that's one of the things that, you know, as I got more of that financial education, I just realized, like, okay, even if I have this piece of it, like, my life's not perfect and my life's not better because I don't have this, this, this, and this in place. You know, I've got to be able to be a more well-rounded individual aside from just, you know, feeling like financially I'm doing the things that I need to do.

And then, you know, Joey, I think in terms of, you mentioned there are people, but I think, unfortunately some people's tribes are just pretty shitty you know they're just hanging out with the wrong people their inputs that they're getting on a consistent basis are either at the same level as them or less than them and it's you you have to be intentional about taking a step back and searching those people out and that might be something as simple as cleansing your Twitter you know like going through your Twitter and taking out any negative person you have and start following a bunch of positive people that you resonate with their message. I think that's, you know, taking an inventory of our inputs is a huge part of it as well.

And being able to replace some of those negative inputs with more positive things, even if it's just one or two things to get started with. That's cool. I like that. Yeah, no, for sure. Like, Bitcoin is a means to an end. And, like, I think if you use it to create, like, purpose, which leads to, to optimism, which leads to the actual energy to actually fucking make a change, you know?

Totally. You sort of need that, like, you need that hope. And I think Bitcoin, like, just very specifically as a tool sort of like builds that. I mean, I can speak for myself. Like, you know, I was working in the bar world and, you know, was around alcohol a ton and was just drinking a shit ton all the time. And, you know, it was bring your eight ball to work day, you know, four days a week. And just like, we were just going for it. And, and, and, you know, I, there's, there's definitely not a surprise that I'm like four years not drinking and I've been in Bitcoin like very, very seriously now for like, you know, bear market 2018, right? It's like that that that sort of adds up. You know, instead of like, you know, running into the bathroom and doing bumps or whatever, I would go buy dips and do things like that. And I had this like whole other mechanism in this purpose and this thing to learn about and all this other shit. And then just, in talking with the community and, you know, I found so many other bartenders that were dealing with that exact same thing where they were like, oh, shit, I wanted to not drink when I went to

work today. And fuck, now I'm six tequila shots deep and someone put a bag in my pocket, right? Sorry to keep talking about drugs, but I like to be real. And I love this like, yeah, like Bitcoin, there's a lot of ways Bitcoin can go to $100 million, bajillion dollars and the world is a much worst place. Like that is an absolute possible reality. I don't think it's likely. I really trust Bitcoin's incentives, but it's possible, you know. And so how can you make a change, you know, that you want to see, you know, how can we get to this end that we want? Maybe Bitcoin isn't the only means to get to a stronger family, stronger society, stronger men, stronger woman, you know, just stronger people. I think that's really cool. So yeah, man, hey, optimistic, powerful

stuff. I like it. Mark, I was in a space earlier. We were talking about, like, difficult orange pill conversations we've had. And we were talking about, you know, being the guy at the dinner party who talks about inflation and, you know, maybe talking to your wife and a car ride about the nature of the Federal Reserve. But I didn't hear anyone talk about bringing their phone into a washroom to buy a dip while everyone else doing lines off the toilet. Now that would be a tough conversation to have. I don't know how you start. That's a tough one. Welcome to the Bay Area. 2018. That was more or less the scene. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, good times.

Good on you, buddy. Glad to hear that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, but really, I loved your point, Joey, about, you know, just no matter what you're kind of going through, there is someone else going. You know, it's like we're, you know, as unique as we all are, as snowflakes as we all are, you know, we're also, there's a lot of commonality in this world. And when we focus so much on the division and it just fucking sucks. So yeah, it makes it hard to, yeah, to get to like, you know, share vulnerable shit and whatever. But whenever you do, you know, I mean, honestly, man, Chris, I think it's like, that's fucking cool. And I think some people would be like, wow, you're doing men's groups.

Like, what about are you talking about? But to me, it's like, yeah, dude, we need that shit. We need it bad. Like, guys are hurting. Everyone's hurting. Women are hurting. Everyone. It's in our DNA.

I mean, like, we're not meant to be isolated with our phones and having very superficial conversations. Like, it's, we're meant to be, you know, in community together. You know, doing, especially when it comes to, I'll go off a little tangent here, but when it comes to men, we, we tend to feel like our only purpose is to provide for our families monetarily. And unfortunately, you know, that creates this rat race effect of lack of purpose. And I think, Mark, you mentioned that is purpose is everything. You know, when you find purpose, there's hope and there's, there's a reason for you to keep going. And if for nothing else to bring people together to have them start thinking about what their purpose, you know, purpose actually is so they can kind of start unpacking that, figuring out how to believe in themselves again, and maybe take some actionable steps towards something else. If they really hate what they're doing and hate the position that they're in, there's no reason we can't, you know, take a risk. And I guess I'll just briefly touch on the idea of risk and how we've,

like, made it such a negative thing. But like, we need to risk and we need to fail. And those are two things that more of us need to, we all need to do on a consistent basis as far as I'm concerned. And if we push those two things, I mean, we'll be, I think you'll be amazed at, you know, what you can do in a very short period of time just by leaning into that. I think people misplace, like, the blame on capitalism when it's like, no, taking a risk is like a very natural thing that animals do, we do. It's a very, like, it's a very natural biological thing to like, maybe I'm going to spend this time

to make a tool to get an agricultural surplus to then trade so this monkey picks things off my head or whatever. Like I don't know. I'm not, that's not my field. But yeah. It's not. No,

no, no, despite my bushman look. It is, it is true. You know, there's nothing more rewarding than taking a risk because that, you know, if you want to talk about dopamine, taking a risk is dopamine, whether it's, you know,

what you can, consider to be maybe a risky Bitcoin investment the first time, whether it's approaching a girl at a party or whether it's, you know what I mean? But I'll tell you, the best stories always come from times you took a risk. And stories may just seem like stories at the time, but what they really are are learning experiences. And that's how you grow as an individual for sure. Absolutely. And you can, I mean, each risk that you take, you will learn from it and you build upon it. So, you know, calculated smart risk as well plays into this, right? You know, you're not going to just jump off a bridge because it's a risk.

Like you're taking risks so that you can grow. And if it doesn't work, then you can go back, examine the situation. And then, you know, next time, try something different. And, and I mean, I'm in terms of just, again, like a story of personal risk, I was, I was, kind of scared of of not having a boss for a while as much as I hated having a boss the thought of the comfort of oh well you know I I have a job and I get a specific salary every couple of weeks or month or whatever it may be and that's that's a comfort thing for for a lot of people and then I'm thinking oh man how risky is it to kind of go it alone and and and not have that

that blanket of oh you know i'm i'm i'm going to be okay these other people will take care of me as long as i keep on showing up um but the reality of taking those risks is it's it makes you a lot more anti-fragile if you learn and grow from it right i'm looking at it now like previously i guess in having a job with with a boss it was effectively a single point of failure right Like if I lose that job or the company doesn't do as well and they have to let me go for whatever reason, then, you know, my, the entirety of my income is wiped out. Whereas now if, you know, I have different streams of revenue. And when I look at that, it's like, oh, if one of those works doesn't work out, then what I'm dealing with like a temporary, you know, stoppage of maybe one eighth of my income. and that's much more manageable.

It's much less panic-inducing, and it just takes a little bit of work to get that stream of revenue back up and going, and I'm much better off. So I'm actually what a lot of people perceive at risky ends up putting you in a position of much less risk as long as you learn from it. Totally. Yeah, I couldn't agree more, man. Well said.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing I would add to that is you talked about, being able to reflect. You know, when you, when you take risk and you get that honest feedback, you can reflect on what it's done for you and how to make those adjustments and whatnot. So, yeah, it's, I can, this is the topic I absolutely love is getting into the risk failure stuff. So yeah, great topic. That was a great topic, Chris. Well done.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Great reason to be bullish. Great reason to be bullish. Well, gentlemen, I, I think I got to start. rounding it up here. I've got a bit of a track ahead of me. I'm spending the weekend with the family since I was away for a week. So first off, I'm going to thank all of you for being here. But I like to round it up a certain way. I usually do a quick round around the group. And I ask a couple things. Of course, where can people find you? Any final thoughts that you may have. But then I'm going to

put a challenge to you and I'm going to say I'm going to ask you guys to recommend something whether it be like a piece of content it could be a book an article of video something to watch maybe it's an application that you tried out that you really liked maybe it can literally be anything a hardware device that you tried out it could be specifically bitcoin related or it can be you know we kind of covered a wide array of tangential topics So anything that you found to be useful in your life, I'm going to let you guys recommend it. So I'll start off with final thoughts. I mean, we really cover the gamut.

And I think the unique thing here is that Bitcoin is a jumping off point for a lot of different interesting ways to build upon yourself. Yes, we want to fix the money and fix the world. but with that we also want to fix ourselves right and what the world has done to ourselves and and that's um in my opinion a pretty unique perspective in a world that is full of nihilism that has been brought on by kind of our surroundings so um i love that aspect of bitcoin i love that aspect of bitcoinsers and kind of the hopefulness of the future and the willingness to do something about it both globally but very locally within oneself and one's family so and in terms of I guess since we're on the topic of improving oneself there's a book that I really enjoyed

and I'm sure some of you here have read it if not all of you but it's how to win friends and influence people. And I actually, I quite enjoy that book just in the sense of it, the title sounds a lot like like it's going to be a deceptive book, like teaching you how to force people to do something you want without them really understanding it. But really, it just kind of covers the idea of showing genuine care for what one has to say and what one is going through. and how they're living their life and actually asking questions of them and getting to know them

so that you can understand them better so that you can find common ground. I think that's a lost art, especially in the context of spending two to two and a half years, not interacting on a personal level with pretty much anyone. I think it's a good idea to reacquaint yourself with interacting with people and learning about them. And while I do think Bitcoiners are on the right track, I also think that myself included, we can go down rabbit holes and down paths where we completely dismiss people rather than trying to understand how they arrived at their current mindset. So I think spending more time on that is worthwhile. So if you haven't read how to win friends and influence people, I think it's worth your time.

I also maybe check out one of the earlier versions because I love when he's referring to like Abraham Lincoln. as some of his references. So, yeah, so yeah, worth a read, check it out. But I'll rotate. Let's jump to Mark. Where can people find you? Yeah. Final thoughts and a recommendation.

Yeah, totally. Mark Goodwin, you can find me on Twitter at that little thing right there and website. If you just put a dot instead of the underscore. I work on the editorial at Bitcoin Magazine on the print magazine. Definitely subscribe and share. check us out. We have a ridiculous magazine about to come out that's going to fucking piss off half the world and really stoke up the other half. So that's what we try to do, you know. We're a bipartisan platform, of course. No, but yeah, totally check up to my magazine.

Super thankful to be here. Chris, you're amazing. Joey, super hilarious. Awesome. Ben is always big fan. This is great. I would say I'm going to just go with like what it's hands reach because I wasn't prepared for it. But I have rocking big. Bitcoin here and I have it bookmarked to the transaction chapter. And I think learning about how a Bitcoin transaction works on a very technical level, like really explains how Bitcoin works. Like you learn about the UTX outset and propagation and, you know, really good place to go. There's some really cool stuff out there on that.

Yeah, Grocking Bitcoin though, probably one of my favorite Bitcoin education books, big fan of it by Kai-A Rosenbaum. And closing thoughts, yeah, every time I get to talk to Bit Pointers, it just makes them more excited about it. Smart people, good hearts, fucking stoked. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Awesome. Thanks, man. Love it. Joey, you're up.

I got to piss like a racehorse. So you can find me at Joey tweets, Canadian Bitcoin's podcast. I have one recommendation only. Speak in the Twitter space. You might be shy, but I guarantee you will be better off if you speak and your ideas be known. Those criticisms may be harsh, but you'll absolutely be better for it. So, Ben, thanks again for having me, man. I appreciate the invite.

Yeah, no worries, man. And Chris, you're up last. Final thoughts? Where can people find you? Recommendations? Go ahead. Yeah, so I just changed my little handle on there. It's underneath that Chris Betcher 9.

And, yeah, I'm primarily on Twitter right now. We are, if you guys are interested in the things I was talking about earlier, leveling up and taking control your health, your mindset. We're doing some one-on-one coaching as well as our next men's group will start in October. So you can reach out by DMs if that was something you were interested in. I would say my challenge for you guys is, I think, again, it all starts with understanding who we are and figuring out our own thoughts, regardless of what your goals are. That could be nutrition, health, whatever it is, is spending 20 minutes with a pen in the paper

in silence. First thing in the morning, do it for a week. I think it'll start changing your life. You can talk about the things you're struggling with, the things you're dreaming about doing, maybe, you know, just discovering what your purpose might be. I think there's extreme power in that. And I think that's where everybody should start is just being in silence, you and your thoughts. And it might not like what you see right away. But over the course of unpacking that stuff, I think there's a lot that can be accomplished. Awesome. I love it, man. Great. Well, everybody, thank you guys so much for being here. I really appreciate all your time.

This is a great chat. I thoroughly enjoyed it. And you're all welcome back anytime. Appreciate it, Ben. Yeah. Great. Yeah. All right.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, fellas. All right. And everybody watching, thank you so much for being here. Make sure you follow all of those gentlemen. All of their Twitter handles are actually linked in the show notes down below. So I'll give that a click. And yeah, share the show far and wide.

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Hit the tip button. You'll see a lightning invoice. or if you tap the arrow to the right, a regular Bitcoin QR code. With that, I'm out. Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, and I will see you guys next time for your daily session. Hodel the Bitcoin.