BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? CJK, Ser Ulric, Dare To Dream ep370

Episode Date: October 21, 2023

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What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? And we've got a killer panel today. Very excited to see everybody here. It should be a lot of fun. We'll be bringing them in momentarily. Returning guests and a couple brand new guests for first time on the show.

So it should be a blast. Of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live.

I'll write it and we'll do it live. The fucking thing sucks. If you haven't already please do like, subscribe, share that little like button just below the screen, tap that, give this a share on whatever social media is. You are on. Cheers to all the people on Noster, on Rumble,

on YouTube, on X, on all of that good stuff. Yeah, let's kick this thing off. I'm Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a quick look at where we are in the market right now. This is timechain calendar.com. We're sitting at $29,628 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 3,375 sats.

In terms of fees, of course, by the way, I'm pulling up the live chat. So your chat messages will be relayed to the entire internet for better or worse. So feel free to start dropping those comments, below, GMs, whatever you need in the chat. Anyways, in terms of fees, it looks like next block, 18 sats per byte, anytime six sats per byte, and anything below around two, two and a half sats per byte is getting purged from the mempool. So be aware. And in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.5 million of them, that is 92.9.9. 95% of the total supply.

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favorite things that I own. But basically, they are your sovereign computing solution. They allow you to have plug-in-play devices to host your entire Bitcoin stack, Bitcoin Core, Lightning, join market, Mempool.com. Also, your private data, files, passwords, photos, nostrilase, and clients, all of that stuff. In the comfort of your own home, you can have a light node all the way up to what I'm running, the server pure, which they just drop prices on. And if you use code BTC sessions with a little plus sign at the end of it, all caps. It'll give you another 18% off, which is pretty solid. So anyways, not by rambling.

Let's get in our guests. So I'm going to welcome to the stage, Graham and CJ. And where is he? Ulrich, welcome in. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you joining me on a Friday to get bullish. And everybody in the chat also, welcome. Welcome to the show. Let's do a quick round of intros so that everybody that's maybe unfamiliar

gets acquainted with you guys and basically, who are you? What do you do? So I'll toss it to Graham first. Welcome first time on the show. Can you let people know who are you? What do you do? Yeah, thanks, Ben. So, well, first of all, thanks, yeah, for having me on. Really appreciate it. So, yeah, I'm, my name is Graham, as you said. I'm from the UK. originally and long-term bitcoinser. And actually I was really like a nobody in the Bitcoin world up until very recently. And I was just quietly going about my own thing.

And then I went to El Salvador a couple of years ago. And I ended up, well, embarking on a massive project, which I hadn't planned on at all, one of those kind of impulsive moments in your life where you decided to do something. And so, yeah, I ended up committing myself to funding, producing my first ever documentary. And that was about the whole Bitcoin Beach story that led to the law in El Salvador. So that film is called Dare to Dream. And so I actually, back then I was originally planning on doing it all an honest,

anonymously. I didn't really want to, you know, come out of the, out of the shadows. But once I, once we actually got the film, we got a deal with the distributor and all that, I realized I actually got a, I got to kind of get my name out there to try and promote the film. So, so, yeah, so I'm, yeah, that's me, basically. That's awesome, man. Well, I mean, I'm sorry for your obsec. But I'm very glad that you've made what you've made. And I'm sure we'll chat about it a little bit more and a bit here. But thanks for coming on the show.

I appreciate it. Cool. Thanks. Awesome. Awesome. We'll jump down to CJ. Dude, good to see you again. Can you give yourself an intro for those unfamiliar?

Yes. Thanks for having me, man. It's great to be back. And by the way, congratulations to you for that recent reward. That's well deserved, man. Not many people in this industry truly deserve it. you do. So really excited to see what you keep doing. Been in Bitcoin for a while.

Most of you guys know me or remember me from the last episode. Hey, everything's falling apart. Now's the time. Everything that we've been waiting for and talking about is going to happen right now. So you don't even need to know me. You need to know Bitcoin and you need to be ready. So let's get into it. Awesome.

I love it. Well, welcome back, man. Last one was an epic, an epic episode. So I'm glad to have you. And let's toss it down one more, Ulrich. Dude, I've now met you a handful of times in person. Glad to have you on the show finally. I'm sorry it took so long, but I'm glad you're here. And can you give yourself an intro for those that are unfamiliar? No, there's never any reason to apologize. You know, you do a great job with your show.

And, you know, it's a pleasure to be here, seeing all the people I know in the audience supporting you and support. supporting us. My name is Ulrich, Sir Ulrich, on Twitter. I do a few things in Bitcoin. If you look over my left or right shoulder declaration monetary independence, pops up at several different conferences on occasion. I also have written over a dozen articles 15, maybe 1516 on various platforms, Bitcoin magazine Swan, Satoshi's Journal, Pleb Underground, Simply Bitcoin. Been on some of those podcasts as well. So you've seen me there. I also do the Bitcoin ballers with Q, where we don't talk about Bitcoin. We're just Bitcoiners who actually just talk about the NBA. It's really cool. We have other bitcoinsers on. We kind of branch out on other interests besides this great monetary network. And lastly, I also own a substact called Belt of Truth, which is basically a collective of writers talking about the intersection of Christianity and Bitcoin. So I'm pushing a lot of different things. things right now and I'm just happy to be here so we can talk about the thing we love.

That's awesome, man. I know that somewhere on earth, you said NBA and you started talking about basketball and Sean Harris, his ears are burning somewhere. He can sense it. Everything is basketball. Well, welcome to the show, guys. This is going to be fun. I can already tell. everybody that's watching welcome as well do me one little favor hit that like button down below that helps a ton and give it a share on whatever socials you're on whether it be nostar or x or wherever else you may be and shout out to the people on rumble that may be watching too i'm starting to get a few more viewers in there but i digress anybody unfamiliar with the show this is called why are we bullish pretty simple premise to the show each one of us has come with a reason

why we're bullish, why we're currently excited in and around Bitcoin. What's what's happening? What's top of mind? So the flow of the show is that one person is going to drop their reason for being bullish. This is their chance to rant and talk about whatever excites them. After that rant is concluded, then together we're all going to riff on that reason. We're going to discuss, ask questions, head down whatever rabbit holes we decide to go down. And then finally, we'll rotate to the next person until we've been.

all had a turn. So the three hours, reason, riff, rotate, simple. So I'm going to get us started today. And my reason for being bullish, it's been kickstarted by what I would say is it's being kickstarted by worrying news. But the worrying news, I will say, well, it may be a pain in the ask for us and for Bitcoiners in general for a period of time. I do believe that in the long run, they will, not us, but they will lose. So I'm going to show you what I'm talking about here. So this is news that FinCEN seeks to impose strict surveillance requirements into a broadly defined class of Bitcoin mixers.

So they propose designated mixing as an area of primary money laundering concern in order to impose certain record keeping and reporting requirements on involved transactions. Public has 90 days to comment. Basically, they outline a bunch of different methods in which you can use on-chain transactions and just how Bitcoin works in order to achieve greater privacy. And number one, I want to say that once again, privacy in and of itself is not a crime. Having it's so that anybody who decides to dig cannot decipher your net worth is not a criminal offense. I would prefer if I could do a transaction and not have any asshole come along and say, oh geez, this guy has how many Bitcoin? Maybe I'll just swing by his house and kick open his door.

I don't like the idea of that happening to me. And so on-chain privacy is something that people should be able to do. And I don't think that it's possible to do that through a, you know, through the lens of only the good guys can have privacy. That's not how privacy works. If there's a honeypot of information and you need to give up the information to someone somewhere, everyone somewhere at some point will be able to get a hold of it. Just look at the mess of crap that has happened with private data over the past decade or more.

So anyways, they go on to outline all of these specific types of ways that you can use on-chain transactions to more or less obfuscate or create transactions in which there are most. multiple interpretations. Coin join through Whirlpool or Join Market or all these different things using pay join, all of these different methods that people might use. And then some of the quotes coming from FinCEN are just astoundingly stupid. But in particular, this one here, FinCEN recognizes that there are legitimate reasons why responsible actors might want to conduct financial transactions in a secure and private manner,

given the amount of information available on public blockchains. FinC also recognizes that, in addition to illicit purposes, CBC mixing may be used for legitimate purposes, such as privacy enhancement for those who live under repressive regimes or wish to conduct licit transactions anonymously. Still, mixing presents an acute money laundering risk because it shields information from responsible third parties such as financial institutions and law enforcement. So here's the thing. When you're saying that there are legitimate uses for this, but you're saying we can't

possibly let people use this unless we know everything that they're doing, you are saying you are guilty until proven innocent. You are starting from a position that is incriminating everyone and then examining everything that they're doing and then saying whether or not you're allowed to have privacy. And that's the antithesis of everything I know that America is supposed to stand for, but any free country, I believe, is supposed to stand for. and they specifically mention people living under tyrannical regimes using these methods to help protect themselves. Well, the thing is, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Either the average person can have privacy or you have a top-down structure where the people

at the top get to deem who is allowed to have privacy. in those instances, the people living under tyrannical regimes, they get screwed. So basically what you're saying is that in order to catch some low-level crooks, we're going to sacrifice every other person that is at the other end of a tyrannical stick. So I hate this, but I also think they're going to lose. And here's why. So here's my start and I note. I am personally hosting something called JAM.

And JAM is just an easy user interface for Join Market. Join Market is a protocol in which you can execute coin join transactions. It is not a centralized entity or company. It is simply a protocol for executing transactions that can be interpreted multiple different ways. And again, you can run this yourself, but it's just one example of a coin join tool that can be used completely permissionlessly.

Of course, there's other options too. Sparrow wallet is an excellent desktop wallet. It utilizes a whirlpool if you care to use it in which you can use coin join transactions to break the links between you and the coins that you own. It also utilizes a technology when you go to spend pay join transactions. Pay join transactions allow you to combine coins with any other person in the midst of a transaction and have it look like a coin join when really you're just sending yourself money or sending somebody else

money. You can also create fake coin join transactions through your own wallet where you're literally just sending every time you send, it looks like a coin join, even though it's not. Beyond that, we haven't even begun to address second layer and the amount of privacy that you can get through other tools. We are at a place where governments are starting to say, uh-oh, people can in some way. They just figured out that Bitcoin isn't private, and now they're starting to catch on to, oh, here's some of the methods that people can use on-chain to make their transactions more private. They've just begun to ask the public for comments on their eventual trajectory in and around how they deal with this stuff. They haven't begun to truly

look at what could come next. So, Fetamance, whatever. effetamance. Effectively a big multi-sig, like a communal pool of Bitcoin amongst like a trusted group of people where you'd have community members as keyholders. But once in a fetament, a pool of Bitcoin in a multi-sig, every transaction to and from everybody inside of that fetament is near perfectly private, instant and free. When you go to send from one fetiment to another, because you can have many different fetaments, you're gaining the privacy of every single person in that group because nobody knows who's sent out of the fetament

and nobody knows who received into the next fetament. And this can be done via lightning as well. So you're basically hiding in the crowd. And this is, again, like a layer two mechanism through which you can gain privacy. There's other things where there are tradeoffs in and around custody, but, you know, depending on what you're trying to do and how large the transaction is, cashew is another instance of a Fedament-style

Xiaomi and e-cash model on Lightning. And this, again, near-perfect privacy, and you can download and test this today. I did a video on it recently using Xiaomi and e-cash on top of Bitcoin. And then you have stuff that is still, I'd say early days, but Mercury and State Chains is just a whole other mess of privacy kind of layer two stuff that it's going to make it so difficult to tell what in the hell is going on. And so I know I threw a whole bunch out there, but my main reason for being bullish is despite the fact that this next little bit is going to be difficult, I think.

in the end, I think the people that are opposing freedom and privacy and the assumption that you are innocent until proven guilty, I think people that are opposing that will end up being on the wrong side of history and that those who write code and those that advocate for privacy and financial freedom for all will win. And that's why I'm bullish this week. So I'm going to open it up to you gentlemen and basically just i don't know kind of prod your thoughts in around what do you think of the finstan stuff what how do you think this is going to play out um do you think that these tools stand a chance in the long run i don't know who wants to dive in here you know i can go first because i i think that based on the the the fanfare in the chat in the chat

cj may be the maybe the final uh final speech so i would say that um There's an analogy I want to put forth where government cameras on your property, your land and real estate are necessary to mitigate the risk of criminal activity. And of course, that's preposterous. That's wild. That's outlandish. But it's essentially analogous to what we're describing here, that they have the right to watch your illicit, it doesn't matter, your transactions,

regardless of whether you're a bad, a bad actor or not. And the problem is, well, the catch is that they have easy access to your real estate pretty much any time they want. Most people's throughout the world are disarmed. And so even if you stand your ground and say, you shall not pass, they have the guns and they have the ability to march onto your property and do whatever the hell they want.

And the problem is with Bitcoin is they essentially have no access right ability to easily gain, easily access your Bitcoin without working through lawfare to try to curb the technology that's being built to protect you. So they're working on these laws. They're working on these counter this software that's trying to mitigate the Shaw 256 that makes it. nearly impossible to breach the Bitcoin network. And I think that it just shows that they're scared, that they have a possibility of losing their authority over the monetary supply in many ways than one. Of course, Fiat inflates to zero, but not only that, Bitcoin, regardless of whether it's inflationary or not, the fact that it's so closed off to individual rent seekers.

it makes people who make a living rent-sinking essentially shaking their boots. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Graham, I want to talk to you and get any of your thoughts as well. Yeah, well, I'm with you, man. I think it's actually very bullish, right? I mean, it's funny. The irony, right, is that Bitcoin originated from the cyphepunk movement, which was all about privacy, right?

That was what it all started off as. And so, you know, I think it's a sign that they're scared. I think they're going to, you know, they're going to do things like this. But I don't see it as, you know, any problem that the Bitcoin community, so to speak, can can't overcome. And, you know, it's funny. My girlfriend's Brazilian. and she was telling me just today that the she was watching the news i got i finally got her to to i finally orange piller she finally bought some bitcoin uh yesterday and um she was telling me today

that on the on the news on in brazil that they were trying to blame the so the the the rise in price right of of bitcoin is because all the terrorists were like ham ass and all are using it for their, you know, to fund their activities. And, and, you know, so that's where they're going now, right? Is they're going to, they're going to blame it on the terrorists. So, yeah, you know, I think it's a sign that they're, they're kind of desperate. You know, I think they see that they're losing the battle. And so they're going to throw anything they can in it.

And yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't worry me. You know, it's, it'll just be another little hurdle that we overcome. And as I say, I think, well, as you said, I think it's actually a very, very bullish science. Yeah. Yeah. We got, we got some strife to go through, but, you know, we'll come out the other end of this, I think, much stronger. But, CJ, I'm curious. You look like you're ready to say something here.

I can barely hold it in. I can barely hold it in. This is absolute bullshit. Are you kidding me? FinCEN is the terrorist. They're the terrorists. All of this stuff is happening. Let's take this one by one.

What is funding terrorism? Probably our tax dollars, right? U.S. American dollars are what's funding terrorism, not Bitcoin, you fools. The other thing is, is how much illicit? How many fines have the banks paid? How much in dollar value have they paid? Billions of dollars per year. the banks are defrauding the American people and doing this type of bullshit that Bitcoin doesn't let you get away with.

And then they have the audacity, to point their finger at us and tell us we're the ones that are empowering illicit finance and terrorists. It's just my heart is beating out of my chest right now because it's so frustrating. The whole world's ass hat backwards, isn't it? It's like upside down and backwards from what the true reality is. It's almost like whatever the government says, the exact opposite is true. Like Bitcoin's funding terrorism. Nope. Opposite dollars are funding terrorism.

Oh, we got to watch these bitcoins because they want to do illicit things. No, actually, you have to watch the bankers. You have to watch the people that you're telling everybody to trust who lost hundreds of billions. Actually, no, trillions of our dollars. We deposited our dollars. They took them and bought shitty government debt with leverage, lost it all. And now we should still trust them and we're the bad guys. What a joke.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so when you started down this, again, like with the losing money or the tracking of money, even when it comes down to things that we've seen in the past, oh, we need you, the IRS needs to know about every $600 PayPal or cash app or Venmo that you get. Meanwhile, the Pentagon, was it the Pentagon? They misplaced like. Yeah, $6 billion. I mean, and it wasn't the first time right before 9-11. they lost a couple billion dollars.

I mean, they've lost billions of dollars and they can't track it, but they got to know where our $600 is. The one thing that I love that makes me bullish is what you brought up about the second layer. Funny enough, last time in our episode, you were talking about lightning, and we were talking about how lightning is for monetary velocity, right? It's to increase the rate at which Bitcoin can exchange hands.

And one of those side benefits is that there's going to be that added privacy. So if you're going to buy a cup of coffee or do something like that, you know, you should be on the second layer. You should be on lightning. You should be allowing these developers to figure out how we're going to get this privacy perfected so that we can use it not only as a settlement layer between nation states and sovereigns and corporations, but also between each other and the small peer-to-peer market as well.

Yeah. Yeah. It's again, like I get the, I get the main takeaway here is the government can't possibly keep up to what the technology is capable of. And those that have the least to lose are the ones that are most willing to learn the new technology right away. And so the government is always going to be lagging behind. They're always going to be a few steps behind whatever is the bleeding edge, right? They're now starting to realize, oh, crap, there's on-chain techniques to to mitigate on chain surveillance.

And again, like, yeah, well, what do you do with Xiaomi and eCash? What do you do with fetamints and what do you do with state chains and all these other things that effectively, you know, move transactions off chain? And so, you know, one thing that makes me happy is that odds are, you know, if you go look forward by a few decades,

your average person is not going to be transacting on chain. I think the important, at least day to day for regular transactions, I think the important thing is that we use this time now to, one, encourage self-custody, but two, to encourage a trajectory of building that doesn't compromise the base layer so that everything passes through this eye of saron that wants to see everything. It's no, we need to build an alternative where that's not possible by the time you get to layer two and three. So that's my hope, and I think that's where we're going to end up being headed. But, you know, we got to work for it and we got to make sure that these tools are available

and that they're built in a way where guidance like this is useless because it cannot. And laugh that and completely laugh that. Yes. Because, you know, it's very similar to this. It's Bitcoin going from digital gold to digital collateral, right? So the settlement is being done elsewhere, but you're still enabling the exact type of transaction that we're looking to make and you're preserving privacy. I love this reason for being bullish because what it shows you is that, I mean, I think the government built like a health care website for like a couple billion dollars and it still didn't work.

Right. So they can't even build a website. They're going to, they're going to. I'd love to see them put out a BIP or something. Like what are they going to do? They're not going to be able to do anything. So I love this reason for being bullish. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, the biggest threat is going to be targeting and making an example of, of people like the, you know, the turn. tornado cache dev. And so devs are going to have to be super diligent and they're going to have to start like if they're going to put themselves in the line of fire like that, you're kind of going to have to start to be, you know, actually anonymous. You're going to have to be a NIM if you're going to want to build around this if it keeps going this direction, if they're going to be this heavy-handed with it. And I think they are because they're flailing because they know that they're in the early stages of losing and it'll get worse so yeah yeah they lost the they tried the whole uh destroying the

environment thing right that was the that was the line of attack for for quite a while and then clearly clearly that that's failed and so it seems like this is going to be their next the next thing right and cj is right of course that it's actually them they're they're the they're the ones who are elicitly using using money taxpayers money and uh i was just i just read today did you see that i think if somebody testified in congress that uh out of the the the five trillion dollars that was used for covid relief that two and a half trillion found his way into china uh so you know it's it's the other way around you know it's that the taxpayer should have more visibility what they're doing with with with a with our money, not, you know, not what we're doing with Bitcoin.

So, yeah, it's crazy. And the problem is with that, of course, is, you know, we call the money that we work for every day our money, but it really isn't. We're renting where it's almost like that money, those dollars in our pocket, is on lease to us. And we use it at the, at the privilege or at the mercy of the governments that own that that actual network. So by us throwing that away, by us

exchanging that for truly private money like Bitcoin, it enables us to actually be, for the first time ever, own something legitimately. It's never, it's never been our money. The dollars, the euros, the rubles, whatever you have, it's never been your money. But the narrative, you've been convinced of that. And so you get outrage and you lobby and you vote and that doesn't even matter. It's never it's never never, never until Bitcoin have you actually had a property, a monetary unit that can truly be yours.

Yeah. Remember the difference between money and currency too, right? There's the difference between money and currency is the store value aspect. So the dollar is a fantastic currency, but it's a horrible, it's not a money. It's it doesn't qualify as money. So when you trade your time and energy for currency, whatever's left over and whatever you don't spend, you got to make sure you get it back into money. And Bitcoin is the best money. Yeah. Don't blow it, everybody. Get yourself custody today. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I don't want to dwell on my topic for too long. So let's do a rotation here. Everybody in the chat, keep them coming. Glad to see you guys all here. Keep those messages going. Smash that like button. Give this a share on whatever socials

you're on. That helps a ton. And yeah, let's let's jump to our next topic. So, Graham, I'm actually going to toss it to you and I'll cue you up with the same question everybody's going to get. Why are you bullish? Okay. Well, you know, this is a tough one, right? Because there are so many reasons, but I think we're right at the beginning of, you know, the new bull market. And so there's just stuff happening everywhere. And there's so so much stuff to get excited about. So it's a hard one to try and pin down one particular thing. But I'm going to, well, I'm going to start off by just laying out a little bit of the

kind of context behind my reason. And actually that's a sort of slightly negative outlook, but you'll understand where I'm going when I explain it. So, you know, we're in, if we, you know, we're in, you know. we look out the world around us right now, it's a pretty bleak place, to be honest, right? If you're not a Bitcoin, it's actually, we've got escalating wars going on,

we got imploding financial system, we've got government overreach everywhere, we've got a failing education systems, a healthcare crisis, you know. It's, the world is basically in decline for, you know, and it's, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs. And it's been happening for many, many years. It's, you know, this has been going on for decades and getting worse and worse.

And, you know, but against that backdrop is why I'm so bullish. Because when we, when we zoom out, you know, Bitcoin has been talked about in many ways, and many different things, you know, yes, it's the hardest sound as money. ever had, you know, yes, it's an amazing technology, whatever. But the way I kind of see it now is it's the first truly global, universal sort of bottom-up grassroots movement that we've ever had towards a better world. And to me, that's a really powerful idea in the context of everything that I was just explaining. I think that's a, you know, we talk about Bitcoin as a community sometimes and I don't think it is really a community.

I don't have any problem with using that term, but I think it is a movement. I think we are generally fighting towards something much bigger, much stronger. And so that's what excites me. I think that the, you know, what we're really looking at, if we can move the whole of, I'm actually writing an article about about this at the moment. It's called the secret to orange pilling the world. And I think if we can move the whole world onto a Bitcoin standard, and I think that's obviously going to take time. But, you know, ultimately I think that's going to lead us to something like a kind of rebirth of humanity. If we, because it gets this backdrop of war

and lies, deception, is this movement, this bottom-up grassroots movement, which is founded on the principles of truth, freedom, and I would say peace, you know, I think generally, maybe peace isn't necessarily baked into, you know, the kind of the Bitcoin white paper or whatever, but, you know, If you, when you meet Bitcoin as you all have, you know, all over the world, it's very clear that we're kind of peace loving group of people, right? And so those to me are the kind of the main principles, the main that I see behind this movement, which is, yeah, as I say, truth, freedom and peace. And I think that that's a really powerful idea, really powerful values to have. And so I think it's as this movement gets stronger and reels in more and more people, and if we ultimately get to that, you know, that global kind of Bitcoin standard,

hyper-Bitconization, I guess, for another way of saying it, then I think we're going to, we're going to have a complete overhaul of humanity. like we're going to recalibrate our values, our ethics, and just the way we function as a society. And that really excites me. And I think it's, you know, I'm not talking about, you know, this bull market, whatever. This is a long-term kind of vision. But it's something that I think is where we're heading towards. And it's something I think we're all kind of fighting for, you know.

And it really sets us apart from all the, you know, all the shick coins or the, all the crypto nonsense who are just in it to, you know, it's a get rich quick scheme if they can, you know. And whereas Bitcoin really is about trying to change the world. And so for me, it's this, yeah, it's, it's this, the fact that it's a global movement. I don't think anything we've ever had anything like this before. And it was so early. And I think people, you know, people should like be proud of kind of, you know, where we're at, you know, in terms of the people who are in it now and actually, you know, are fighting for it. And I think maybe one day when we, you know, when we look back in history, they're going to be like, wow, those people, that first kind of 20 years of Bitcoin, you know, that they were the, they were the real. the game changes. They're the ones who believed in it and pushed it when all the rest of the

world we're trying to take them down or trying to, you know, hold them back. So I would just add to that, though, the one thing where I do think we could improve is getting out a little bit out of our echo chains of within the Bitcoin space. I do think we spend a lot of time. We're all guilty of it, right? On, you know, podcasts, conferences, whatever, talking to each other, talking Bitcoin up to each other. And I think it's great. And, you know, it's sometimes it's just good to vent and whatever.

And, you know, people, if you're in the Bitcoin space, you need content. You need, you know, you want to be that. You want to be hearing other people's views and whatever. But I also think we need to get outside of our space a bit more and try and cross-pollinate. And, you know, with other, because there are actually a lot of other people doing a lot of good things in the world. And there is overlap with the values that we have as big pointers. And I think if we could kind of intersect a bit more with those people doing those things, we could. we could make much greater strides in kind of orange pilling all kinds of people from all over the world.

You know, just, I mean, just one thing I saw today, which kind of, you know, resonated with me, for example. And actually sort of a little bit what we were talking, you know, about before. With this whole government overreach and so on and the censorship complex, you know, that's been happening, I saw, did you see? see this thing called the the Westminster Declaration. It's it's so it's a whole bunch of journalists and filmmakers and technologists and who have kind of come together to sign a declaration for free speech basically. It's about you know we we need open discourse. They're kind of little you know slogan on the on the on the home pages. open discourse is a central pillar of a free society.

And so it's, you know, it's been signed by many people from all over the world, all different kinds of all walks of life, a lot of independent journalists. And I just thought, wow, that's a very cool thing. You know, it's definitely the right way to go. And it really overlaps with a lot of what, you know, we feel and believe in Bitcoin world. But I just thought, you know, how could we, you know, there must be a way that we could intersect with that group or enhance it or help or whatever, you know. And I haven't really thought that through very much because it just, I just saw that today. But it just, it was an example for me of like, well, somehow if Bitcoin, maybe Bitcoiners could make a documentary, for example, you know, something I'm now involved in, you know, funded by Bitcoiners.

the same topic and i think it would just open up you know so many other people's eyes that are fighting for this free speech thing but maybe had misplaced perceptions around bitcoin you know so anyway so it's a bit of a rant uh but uh that's good but yeah that's that's that's kind of uh that's that's that's really why i'm bullish it's it's that global movement that um that i think is just amazing yeah i think you know something that you hit on in around kind of rebuilding the fabric of society and kind of changing the way that we think about and do things. And I do think that's true.

I do think that will come about. And the reason I say so is I think the reason a lot of people nowadays feel so defeated is, you know, money, and I've said this in other shows, but money is meant to be a way for you to express your value. by funneling the fruits of your labor into a medium and then projecting that medium out into the world to affect things. Like you spend X number of hours every day, every week, every month, every year working and doing things that are probably difficult. And you could be spending that time with your family or doing other things and having hobbies,

but you spend it working so that you can earn, you know, what you're remunerated in. And then when you spend that out into society, you're really, you're communicating your values. And when you take all of your blood, sweat and tears and you pour them out and you, you try to funnel that, that remuneration out into the world, you expect to see your values at least partially reflected back at you. But when a touch of the button can print, you know, 40% of all existence.

currency in a couple of years, all of a sudden, it's not just the currency that gets diluted. It's your values. It's all of the work that you put in that you expect to see some semblance of in society. It just gets debased. Your values, the crux of what you built your whole person on gets debased. And that eats away at people because you expect to see, you know, especially like people that just go and have their nine to five jobs and they work hard. You expect to, you know, be able to make a living.

You expect to see the world kind of at least somewhat reflect back at you, you know, some of your values. And you're not seeing that because you have a few at the top that get to say, now we're going to wipe out half of the value and effort that you guys created. And we're going to funnel that into what we see as important, which primarily ends up in war and self-enrichment. And so people throw in the towel. And because if your values aren't reflected back at you,

then your values start to decay. And you see the societal decay. We've seen it over the past number of decades. We've all seen the charts of what the fuck happened in 1971 and more than just monetary charts. There's a whole bunch of things in society that have gotten worse since that day. And so I think going back to a standard, like you said, that is based on truth, that there is consequence for deception.

You know, however long it may tape to find that deception, it seems to be expedient when it comes to Bitcoin. You can't lie about the state of affairs for very long before you fuck around and find out. But I think that gets us back to a base layer of truth. And then we can build society on top of that. So, yeah, you know, I totally agree with what you're saying to say. Yeah. I want to get maybe CJ's take on this and then we'll go to all right after. Yeah.

So when you were talking, what came up in my mind was that Bitcoin is a movement. And then it brought me back to your previous comment, which is they were attacking Bitcoin mining and that kind of faded out. So what I like to say is Bitcoin is the only sustainably incentivized. infrastructure of humanity driving energy technology innovation right so the frauds came in and said this is a scam you're you're boiling the oceans you're killing the world and then once the dust settled what we found out was actually bitcoin is the solution to our problem bitcoin mining is using wasted energy bitcoin mining is commoditizing that energy in the form of money and making the world a better place bitcoin mining can reduce energy costs and

that would deliver unlimited benefits to society. Imagine, you know, what's the big talk today? Oil is going to go back up, right? Energy. Energy is a big driver of inflation and, and prices and business costs when those cost structures get pushed over to the consumer when they go too high because the producer has to make a profit. So the natural laws of economics coupled with the truth that Bitcoin, I don't, I don't know, I don't know the right word I'm looking for. here, the truth that Bitcoin puts forth in its movement, no matter what angle it's attacked at, right? FinCEN attacks it and we're the terrorists. Prove him wrong. You know, mining is boiling in the ocean. Prove him wrong. It turns out that Bitcoin, the more it gets attacked, the more it reveals

itself that it is one of the most beneficial. It's not just the hardest asset that can protect our time and value. It's so many layers deep about how it's a benefit to the human society. like Ben said, it protects your time and energy, mining, lowering those costs, taking that wasted energy, turning it into money, increasing bottom lines. And the truth is, is I think the only real advancement in energy technology that's going to take place in the future is going to be the result of Bitcoin. Because it's Bitcoin miners who are the ones who are incentivized to figure out how to find cheaper electricity. These guys are like, let's use the wind and let's use solar. Yeah, okay. Look at the charts. It's not going to work, right? We need nuclear. We need to focus on waste. We need to focus on hydro. And I love the fact that Bitcoiners are smart enough to back away of this fake green narrative, this green peace narrative and create our own narrative. It's the orange piece narrative. The narrative is that orange piece is what's going to bring true peace and understanding. That's why we're bullish because no matter how much you attack Bitcoin, it reveals its positivity and its good benefits for humanity. I've not come across one thing yet where Bitcoin is bad for humanity.

And that is that that's what I triggered in my head when you were talking about the movement of Bitcoin and humanity as we move together into the future. Wow. All right. You jump in. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, you know, as long as we keep on listening to this narrative where we need subsidize wind solar batteries to put another layer of surveillance and state. coercion on now our use of energy these people are going to be in in a for a rude awakening but some some country will buy into it just like they

bought into turning in all their guns to the to the to the to the state I digress a couple of things so Ben mentioned about talked about essentially allowing technology it's to summarize what Ben was talking about with people losing their time because they can't they can't spend their time with their with their people because they have to to continually work harder for the same amount of share of the economy. Bitcoin essentially allows technology to be truly a deflationary force. If you go back to the topics with Jeff Booth, the price of tomorrow,

you can't have, as technology improves our lives, we end up not taking fully advantage of it. We, the common people, the wage earners, because we're always fighting against how much the centralized forces print money. So that's the kind of thing, the kind of thing where if the centralized forces lose their ability to print money, we can now experience what it really is like to be a human in these amazing times.

Secondly, going back to, or thirdly, going back to what Graham was talking about, he summarized his why he's bullish and truth, peace, and freedom. And I like to talk about Bitcoin in four to seven characteristics. And four of those characteristics, he mentioned right there. Truth is another word for that is immutability. So the blockchain, Bitcoin's blockchain is immutable. And it's different than other blockchains or Bitcoin's time chain is immutable.

It's different from others because it's not owned by a central entity where they can rewrite that blockchain. Bitcoin's time chain is decentralized. No one's rewriting it. It's a beautiful thing. where a transaction spent is a transaction spent. You can trust and believe it more so than almost anything in this physical world. Additionally, freedom, you could talk about Bitcoin

from a trustless and permissionless state. So you don't need to trust a third party, Bank of International Settlements, you know, visa to enable you to exchange value with someone else. Essentially, and also permissionless when we talk about how Russia was taken off of the, I forget the, the, the, the entity swift um we don't bitcoin is the ant antithesis of that type of monetary network and that's a

good thing because then you can actually exchange value with people that you don't that you don't trust you wouldn't trust to stand with your back behind them they may stab you in the back but you can still exchange value with them because bitcoin is a trustless and permissionless system and additionally peace um i think that goes into digital scarcity because when you're you you have control of the network, the monetary network, you can essentially do anything that your evil little brain would have you do. And if you, with all the power in the world, if you have a seat, an office in a strong country like America, Russia, China, you can enact war. And how long can you enact war? Well, with Fiat, you can enact war endlessly. But with Bitcoin,

you can still enact war. You could still buy up a bunch of guns and go take over your neighboring country, but those guns are going to cost you. They're going to cost you hard, scarce assets. They're going to cost you Bitcoin. And you just can't say, oh, I spent some Bitcoin. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to spend another amount of Bitcoin and go propagate more war. At some point, you're going to run out of your money.

And the people who you are encouraging to go fight your battles, they're going to look at you like you're crazy. It's like, you've got to pay the Piper because we're not going to, we're no longer going to fight for you. So Bitcoin doesn't fully get rid of war, but it demonetize it so much. It demonetizes the incentive to enact. You know what? I'm not just going to fight this war for five, ten years to these endless struggles that are out in the middle of nowhere.

It's such a good thing for, it's an indirect way to essentially world peace. And the people who own the definition of peace don't like that at all. So I say, Graham, you are bullish for the right reasons, and I'm happy to have a conversation with you. you about it. Awesome. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just to just to build on that, I mean, I, I, 100% right. I'm not the I'm not saying that the Bitcoin is is a utopia, right? We'll never going to have a, you know, a war again. There's never going to be any bad things happening in the world once we're on a Bitcoin standard. No, I understand that obviously humans are, you know, by by nature, we,

we are humanity is somewhat flawed right there's always going to be some people doing some bad things at some points but i think when you you know having read the the bitcoin standard i haven't read the fiat standard yet's you know safe's latest book but i think we you kind of know where he's going with it and it's it's just that everywhere you look now it's so obvious that the world is so corrupted by the fiat system that we're in right and so if you can replace that fiat system and to your point they you know the constraints that come with the bitcoin standard mean that there's just going to be so much harder to to really propagate you know endless wars for you know for self-enrichment or for corrupt reasons or whatever so it's just going to be and i think but i think the other part of it is as i

say is the fact that the people behind Bitcoin who are trying to bring Bitcoin to the world seem to be such good spirited people that I think that a lot of those kind of values are actually coming from the movement itself. When I went to El Salvador and ended up doing this documentary, that one of the main reasons I did it was because I was just like, blown away by the characters involved that were doing this, you know, they were such compassionate good people that were trying to change their community and ultimately their country. And it was, you know, it was this amazing story that it was like, okay, well, here's an opportunity to show the rest of the world that, that, because there's a lot of misplaced perception from, from outside of the

Bitcoin space, right, about what Bitcoin is, what type of people Bitcoiners are, you know and we don't have i think the best public image to be honest right and um and so yeah that was you know for me it was like wow this this this is a real way to showcase this this this uh compassion and this and this and the values that that come with the people who are trying to bring bitcoin to to the rest of the world and so yeah it's it's partly the actual technology itself and the constraints that come from that from a Bitcoin standard. And it's partly also the people that are behind it and the values that we seem to be trying to instill into the world that we want to create for the future. Yeah.

I think we'll see the values spring forth, you know, with that basler established. You know, the values that are most beneficial to society as a whole and don't just benefit. you know, a wealthy elite, those values will come forth just by virtue of having a fair system where, you know, with, if you're able to create value for others, then you will benefit. If what you're doing does not create value for others, then, you know, you don't benefit from that. So, again, I think we're headed there. I love the topic. And I'm going to now jumpstart us into our next one because I'm conscious of the time.

I want to make sure that we get through everybody. So I'm going to, which way am I going here? I'm going to go to Ulrich first. And I'm going to cue you up with your question, same as before. Why are you bullish, man? All right. So why am I bullish? I'm bullish because of a topic that's happening internationally.

And you've talked about it with Nico. Nico talked about it with someone else before. I went on his podcast, and he talked about with me, it's talking about the great stuff that's going on in Argentina. And I'm not normally a political guy, but this is not a normal politician. I think Javier Malie, who's the frontrunner for, Argentinean presidency could potentially do some great things for a country that is pretty strong. And when I talk about great things, I can list a few things based on my writings,

summarizing some of the stuff that he's promised to bring forth, deconstruction of all government ministries except for seven key ones, and they have dozens and dozens, consolidate and eliminate bureaucratic waste and remove 90% of current taxes on the population, remove all luxury privileges of state employees, recover current liabilities on the central bank balance sheet, and eliminate the central bank entirely, allow Argentinians to conduct transactions in the money of their choice, eliminate restrictions on international trade, eliminate export taxes, and foreign exchange restrictions. So he promises to do a lot of the stuff that sounds, oh yeah, that's pretty good. So why is he?

being attacked by the media? Why is he being attacked by his own political opponents through, as Nico said, lawfare? He told the Argentinian people do not save in the Argentinian peso. It's toxic for you. And they blamed him for the recent bout of inflation. Can you believe that because he decided to say something that he thought would benefit the people. The catching is that Javier Malay is as close to a Bitcoin, a Bitcoin positive president that I think that we have in this current world. And mind you, we have El Salvador and El Salvador is doing their thing. The thing I like about Malay is that he's not necessarily saying that he's going to make Bitcoin legal tender. He's going to allow Bitcoin to operate in a free economic environment with other currencies.

And so when you think about that, it's like Bitcoin should never be forced upon people. Bitcoin should be allowed to prosper. And when you consider that Bitcoin will be compared to the dollar, Biden's dollar, where you'll spend helicopter money to defend his interest in other places, or Trudeau's dollar, which may freeze if you don't want a COVID booster. Or Aziz Juan, that comes with a social credit score if you jaywalk, that could go down if you jaywalk. Putin's ruble that can get redeemed for gold for three months a year and a half ago. If you didn't, sorry, bro. Legarde's euro, as long as you don't buy anything over $500 in cash or you go straight to jail. So it's like, you get to have your choice of all those different currencies, all those

different monies, or you can use Bitcoin. I think that the people of Argentina are going to realize quickly that, hey, there's something to this choice. And I'm going to choose the money that doesn't screw with my savings, with my ability to exchange value. And in my opinion, to be succinct, it provides us a lot of hope, similar hope that El Salvador did. And if I could say, I believe this is kind of like a popcorn effect where if you put a bag in the microwave and you start heating it up, the world is heating up right now. and Bitcoin is that heat and you've got that one pop

El Salvador and then you may have gotten that other pop that may have been a dud in Central Africa we thought that they were going to adopt it was really a crypto scam but then all of a sudden you start getting a lot of pops and I think that those multiple pops

not the full bag yet but I think that's Argentina and you're going to see this popcorn effect expand exponentially like we all say first gradually then suddenly now you saw El Salvador two years ago. Now you see Argentina, potentially if he get, you know,

the gap for the election is closing. But I think that this is a potential positive for Bitcoin. And even if he ends up losing by some sort of scam, voting, whatever, he's going to be a force in that country. And they're going to remember him. And that's why I'm bullish. That's awesome. I love Malay.

Like, just some of his, first of all, if you've seen him truly rant when he's when he's on a big one and he's just no holds barred, he will drop absolute truth and hellfire upon everybody. And it's great. And also the thing that stuck out to me here is how you're talking about rather than top down enforcement. it's hands off, right? He's not saying, oh, everybody has to use Bitcoin. It's a, oh, yeah, Bitcoin can be, you know, whatever, sure. Let's, let's, you choose what you would like to use. And I think that's an excellent way of doing it.

The interesting thing is if you were to dollarize, you know, some people obviously will use Bitcoin, the people that understand it. it, but they'll be almost, you know, initially a little bit less incentive for them to, to understand it right away, which again, like, that's, that's fine. Naturally, we see, you know, I think it was McCormick was down in Argentina and he was like, actually people are like a lot of people, some people are using Bitcoin, but like a lot of people just want, you know, tether. And the reason being, they're like, I just, I just, people have a hard time with the volatility,

and they don't have the ability necessarily yet because their whole economy is based on garbage money. They don't have the ability to save. And so the short term is what matters, and that's where Bitcoin can be volatile. We all know that a long enough time frame, sure, your savings are great. I just don't know what it's going to do today or tomorrow. And I think that that will shift to the point where eventually an open system where there's a lot of options, it gets whittled down to basically dollars being the least shitty of the shitty options for Fiat and Bitcoin. And you're going to have this gradual whittling down where all of a sudden, as Bitcoin grows in size and its volatility begins to dampen and it, just becomes mildly deflationary with a little bit of volatility.

All of a sudden the trade-off between, I know this is going down forever, but in a quasi-stable manner versus, I know this is going up forever in a quasi-stable manner. The trade-off there, it's a no-brainer. It's just the uncertainty in the interim as Bitcoin slowly grows into the behemoth it will become. That's where you're going to get, you're going to use a stable coin, right? So, yeah, but I love the hands-off approach. Blee is, again, love the guy. I hope there's no fuckery of foot, but, you know, we'll see, I suppose.

So, CJ, I want to toss it to you first, then we'll go to Graham. Great points there. Yeah. Man, I don't know if you ever saw that movie, A Knight's Tale, but your name, Sir Olwork. It reminds me, Ollwork von Lichtenstein. That's what I'm playing off of.

Yeah, that's actually my real name, but that's what I'm playing in office. Very cool, very cool. Yeah, sorry, a little distraction there, but I loved your points, especially about what Ben said. I kind of have to piggyback on top of that. The free market option, right?

It's the free market option. And the choice really is between money, and currency. And that's what people need to understand. We're at the point now. We are so at the beginning of the S curve. We're at the bottom of the S curve that the wide majority of people, they don't even understand the difference between money and currency. They don't. And that's why they're choosing tether and dollars over Bitcoin. But over time, they're going to learn more and more. And I think, you know, what really needs to happen is that people need to understand cost structures and price discovery and just saying it kind of like why why don't you know about that that sounds difficult but the

god's honest truth is is that you can create currency with no cost and you cannot create bitcoin without cost the natural laws of physics and thermodynamics protect bitcoin energy can never be created nor destroyed well bitcoin is commoditized energy in the form of money you can't just create it or destroy it you have to earn it and i think that's going to translate really well into some of these countries where they're trading their energy, their work for a currency, and it's constantly being diluted. They can learn through the natural processes of losing, right? We don't, most of the time we learn more from our failures than we do our successes. So we have to learn how to fail before we learn how to correct ourselves and be successful.

And Bitcoin is kind of like that teacher. And the quicker you learn it, the better. Because my concern is for some of these people, like where Ben was talking about, you know, Now we're talking about up only with a quasi-deflationary. Once we get to the top of the S curve and Bitcoin moves from its commodity value, which is the value, the commodity cycle based on its cost of production, where we go to a premium and fair value and discount, that typical standard commodity cycle that we see in all commodities,

that's where price is right now. So these people aren't really going to understand it until price is at its monetary value. And monetary value is literally all economic energy in the world. divided by 21 million. So by the time most people understand this, the opportunity is going to be gone, not the benefits. The benefits are still going to be there. You're going to be able to protect your time and protect your energy. But the opportunity to capitalize on the emergence of this brand new asset class is now while the price is at the commodity value and while price discovery is still cyclical. Because by the time you get to the top of this S curve, if you haven't learned that lesson,

well, you're not going to have a chance to learn it. You would have failed. And then you will learn from your failure and you will switch over to Bitcoin. And that's, that's the, that's the chance right now. We have our opportunity to tell friends and family, look, you should be bullish now, because now is the time we're at the bottom of the S curve. Now is the time that people don't understand this. By the time everybody understands it, it's too late. And again, you don't lose the benefits, but you definitely miss out on the opportunity to not only preserve your wealth, but to grow it. And that makes me bullish. That's, I love what you're saying there. And to me, the most beautiful thing about it is, even the people that completely miss it to the bitter end will still be better off when they eventually use it.

And that's the point. It's that you could miss the entire rise to Bitcoin gobbling up the entire world's economic activity. You could be the last person on earth to get a Bitcoin wallet. but and you'll still be better off when you do. That's great. Graham, I want to toss it to you. Yeah,

well, I'm glad you brought up the Millet and the Argentina thing. I think it's, it's, you know, it's super cool and he's such a character. And the first time I saw him, I was,

I was sure he must be wearing a wig, right? He just, his, his hair is ridiculous. But, you know, fair place. I'm a kindred spirit with him.

I think we have in common. I can't quite place it. But yeah, no, I think it's very bullish. I hope he wins. I think it's, I think you're right. I think it's just a part of this, you know, going back to the kind of movement thing, but this, it's spreading, right, around the world. And there's a reaction, right?

There's a reaction from people in different places in different countries to the, I mean, Argentina's just been such a shit show for so long, you know. It used to be such a wealthy, you know, country with amazing resources. And it's been so corrupt and so badly managed for so long now that at some point there had to be a reaction. And it needed someone like Malay to,

to, you know, to bring that reaction out from the people. And so, yeah, it's, I think, you know, it's interesting as well because it's more and more people in the political realm are jumping on the kind of Bitcoin bandwagon, right? And, you know, I know that we have this sort of separation, you know, there's a sort of libertarian sort of almost anti-government stance. with the bait into the Bitcoin thing. But the reality is we're going to have governments whether we like it or not.

And if the politicians are pro-Bitcoin, I think that has to be a good thing. And I agree that I think the hands-off free market is the way to go. I actually think El Salvador is also that. Although they made it legal tender, they don't enforce it as legal tender. It was really, I think the way they did that was more symbolic. It was kind of saying, look, we're a Bitcoin country come and, you know, come here and, you know, you're welcome here, set up your businesses here. But they don't actually make anybody, you know, pay or accept Bitcoin. So, yeah, I think it's a great topic.

It's a great, you know, it's great to see. And I hope you, I hope he wins. Awesome. Do you know if El Salvador is going to do Citibanko? citizenship by investment. I know you can get residence status, but I mean, come on, you got Bitcoiners here. We want to invest and we want a we want a passport. We want a second or third passport. Have you heard anything about that? Yeah, I think it's coming. Yeah. I mean, I don't know where, where where they're at with it, but I'm pretty sure that's part of the part of the roadmap for sure.

Yeah. Hmm. Interesting. I wonder I see again, this is like that sovereign individual thesis playing out where constituencies, start treating potential residents like, or start treating the residents there like customers rather than servants, right? They're not saying, you know, give us your money. They're saying, please come here and get our services. This is what you get for any tax dollars we may take. and then people get to shop around. World is changing, and Bitcoin's going to be part of that.

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, gentlemen, I need to do our final rotation to our last reason for being bullish. Before I do, I want to say to everybody in the chat, you guys are awesome. Thank you for being here, being part of the show, and having those messages streaming through as we're chatting. Also, a huge shout out to Adam Meister.

in the chat. Love that guy. He was the first Bitcoin show I ever went on at all. And I was very excited to get the invite way back in the day. I think that would have been maybe 2016, 2017, and probably early 2017, to be honest. And yeah, it was pretty epic and I was pretty happy about it. But anyways, I- Hey, Ben, you have to catch me on his show.

I'm on the every time he's been doing it for the last three months I've been on there so you have to watch me I love him join us say hi I am I am gonna be there uh yeah man Adam Adam's awesome and I always love bumping him into him uh in different parts of the world so glad to see him here too uh but we're gonna jump to our final reason for being bullish everybody in chat like sub if you're not share this around uh I I have a feeling we'll have a banging bookend to the show, but I'm going to toss it to CJ. Dude, same question. Why are you bullish? All right. Well, you guys know. Number one, Bitcoin is commoditized energy in the form of money. Number two, Bitcoin is the reserve asset of the internet economy. And number three, Bitcoin is the

most pristine form of collateral in the world. But look, you guys already know that, so I'm not going to bore you with that. I got a brand new reason why I'm bullish today. And I'll tell you why. because the traditional system is collapsing in front of our eyes. That's why. What everybody is neglecting right now is look at the treasury market, right? We mentioned Argentina. Well, you know what Argentina's interest rate is right now? It's 118%.

You know what their inflation rate is? 108%. Because raising interest rates doesn't fight inflation, not when you have this amount of deficit spending and debt. Matter of fact, Max Kaiser quoted me the other day. It got put into Forbes about the death. spiral because the mathematics just doesn't work out. You cannot raise the interest rate when the government is running a huge deficit. When the government is promising to pay $200 trillion of unfunded

liabilities, and then you have to pay a higher interest rate on that. Look, there's only two entities that can create dollars in the entire world. The U.S. government through deficit spending or banks through credit extension. When interest rates go up, it costs the government more money to deficit spend. That means they have to print more currency units. That's the definition of inflation. When interest rates go up, people aren't supposed to borrow money. Oh, well, wait a second. Isn't credit at all-time highs? Take your Keynesium economics and shove it because the data is showing us something different. Credit is going up and it continues to go up. And banks don't want to lend to Jimmy and Johnny because they don't qualify. But guess what? The people who own the

companies that Jimmy and Johnny work for, they have the cash flow, they have the assets, and they're getting access to the money. You think the wealth gap was bad over the last few years. Wait until you see how worse it gets if they stay higher for longer. Here's the problem. They're not going to be able to stay higher for longer because what's happening is the yield curve is normalizing. What's the yield curve, CJ? The difference between the short term rates and the long term rates. The Federal Reserve stated the rates higher. They raised the rates to fight inflation. We already know that. That's BS and it's not going to work. But what's happening is the long term rates stayed lower. And the reason that the long-term rates stayed lower was because the people

believe the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve targets 2% inflation. Sir O'Rourke, they only want to steal 2% from us per year, right? So sit down and shut up because they're not stealing that much, right? They target 2% inflation. The rest of the marketplace, we had an inverted yield curve, the steepest and longest inverted yield curve between the 10-year Treasury note and the three-month Treasury bill in the history of recording, right? At the same time, treasuries are performing the worst they've performed since 1787. 1787. Do you know what was happening in 1787?

That was shortly after our country declared independence. And the interest rates were so high because nobody knew if our country was going to exist. Well, guess what? Treasuries are performing that bad because people with real money who are trying to protect it, they don't know if this country is going to exist. We're in the same situation. Everything is falling apart at the same time. The 10-year Treasury note yield is now normalizing.

What does that mean? It's now working its way back up above that three-month bill rate. Well, why would it do that? It's the free market signaling to us, right? Price is the language of demand. Interest rates are the price of the currency. The price is going up. What is the bond price is going down?

yield is going up, right? It's an inverse relationship. So what is the market signaling to us through this price action? They're calling the Fed's bluff. They're saying, hey, we don't believe inflation is going to be held long term at 2%. We're calling BS on your 2% inflation target. And for that reason, we're going to sell at 4.9% instead of buy, right? Because if they believe the Fed, you'd be happy to buy 4.9%. Because if you believe the Fed, inflation is 2%, and 5% minus 2% is 3%. So that means you would get a 3% real rate of return, right? The APY of the note minus what they say inflation is going to be gives you your real rate of return. So if you have a positive real rate of return, you can actually increase your purchasing power over time. Well,

the free market believe the Federal Reserve's 2% target. Therefore, even though the short-term rates went high, the long-term rates stayed low because people were buying. They were buying. They were buying. It's 2% inflation. We're at 4%. This is fantastic. I'm getting real rates of return here. What we've seen over the last couple of quarters is that the yields have broken up to new highs. The normalization process is the free market signaling to us

that they don't believe the 2% inflation target. Now, the reason that that's bullish is because it highlights the reality of the situation that the U.S. government is in. And that situation is the debt-death spiral. So what they're going to have to do is they're going to be, to take action. They have to ask ourselves, what's worse? Is it worse that the long-term rates go above the short-term rates and we have to do yield curve control to cap the rates? Because the free market is now asking, what is the rate of inflation? We don't know who to trust anymore.

So we have to discover that price on our own. Or is it better for us to just state the rates lower, have an artificial normalization? And yeah, rates go down. People want to borrow more. But ultimately, when rates go down, right, the government doesn't have to print as much money to deficit spend. So there's a tradeoff between the things that are happening right now in the bond market. It's a sophisticated market and it's not easy to understand. I mean, if you don't understand the difference between money and currency, surely you aren't going to understand the difference between a currency derivative like a bond, right? Dollars are a derivative of the bonds.

Bonds are a derivative of taxpayer money. The government is spending all of our taxpayer money, plus printing more of it and spending that into circulation as well. There is no way out of this. People need to wake up right now because the system is collapsing right now. If you think things are normal, they're not. And I don't know. This is why you see it burning up in me through this whole episode because I'm trying to figure out a way to deliver this message to my fellow Bitcoiners

so that you can tell your family and friends what's happening right now because you are not going to hear this on the news. You're not going to hear from the talking heads. what's happening right now is the largest sovereign debt market in the world is blowing up and everybody is in denial nobody understands the repercussions of what's happening the bond market is the collateral it is the base layer money just like bitcoin is the base layer money for lightning it's the collateral that facilitates the transactions on the net lightning network because it's settled in that collateral well in the traditional system Treasuries are the collateral, and banks hold that collateral on their balance sheet as an asset.

And the circulating liabilities that we trade between each other and our bank accounts, they're just digital numbers. The underlying collateral, the value of that collateral is eroding. It is eroding beneath the system. And now it's not eroding because they stated the rate higher. It's eroding because they're losing control of the yield curve. The free market is calling their bluff and risk is being. repriced before treasury bonds were well hey there's no risk it's risk free and that's partially true because if you hold that bond to maturity you will get principal and you will get

interest that's guaranteed because they have a printer so you're going to get that money but what the what the what the smarter wider market is now starting to figure out is well I understand I'm going to get paid the money but what the hell am I going to be able to buy with that money right I was looking at a single family home in 2020 and it was 225,000. And now, even after they froze the markets with what they did with rates, the single family home is still 400,000, 450,000. It's 100% more. So I don't care if you're getting 5%. I don't care if you're getting 10%. It doesn't matter what you're getting. That's not 100%. It's not the pace at which the system is deteriorating is accelerating. And it's accelerating to the

point where all the bells and all the alarms and all the whistles are going off. And the biggest people in the world who get the time and the platform to warn people are pretending that nothing is wrong. Everybody right now should be extremely concerned and they should be, they should be doing what I think, here's what I'm going to call it. This is why I'm bullish, because Bitcoin is systemic diversification. Bitcoin is systemic diversification, right? Concentration builds wealth. Diversification preserves it. So if you go into the stock market and you got oil and you got a few ETS and you got an index and you got this and you got some blue chips. That's not diversification. You're all in the same system. You need systemic diversification.

You need something where when this thing crashes and burns because it will and it is right now, that you're not going to be trapped in that system. You need wealth parked in an alternative system. And because people have come to trust over long periods of times, there is no alternative system. That is the system. So Bitcoin is the alternative system. And look how fast it's developing. It's developing just as fast as the traditional system is crashing and burning. And right now, here today, we need to acknowledge it. We need to look the problem head on, just like they did in Argentina, or at least the one guy who we hope wins, look that problem head on, address the problem and fix the problem. You need, listen, guys, if you don't want to choose it, that's fine. But you

need systemic diversification. Listen, guys, if you don't want to earn, 100, 118% APY, that's okay. Yeah, but when prices are going up 200%, you're still losing, right? And that's what's happening. The system is crashing and burning. There is nowhere to go to escape. If you have stocks, what do you sell them back into? Dollars. You have bonds. What do you? Dollars. If you have all this ETF, dollars. You need to be able to get out of dollars. And for those of you have been around for a long time, you know when the boom market comes around, sometimes it can take weeks to set up an account. Sometimes it can take weeks. to go through the KYC stuff that they make you do.

You're not going to be able to... This is going to happen so fast that if you're not prepared now, you're all... You're done. There's no way you're getting off this. You have no chance. This isn't the Titanic where you can float on a piece of wood. This was a submarine shooting torpedoes and it's all going to blow up at once. And if you're on it, you're dead.

You need to get off now. And that's why I'm bullish on Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the exit. Bitcoin is the saving grace. Bitcoin is the answer to our problem, which is no longer just inflation and corrupt politicians, but a crashing and burning system right in front of our eyes. Brought the fire this time. I love it.

You're still right, though. Like, everybody always sits on their friggin' thumbs until the last minute. It's not until people are experiencing the worst pain that the majority of them finally pull the trigger on doing enough to get them out of harm's way. And by then, it's often too late. Like, we were talking about the S curve earlier. And yeah, it's kind of the same thing in a different type of situation. But, you know, the people that don't take the time to get acquainted with this, they'll miss everything.

Again, the people that don't take the time to get ready now will be most burned by what's about to happen. They'll still be able to salvage themselves by switching to the other system eventually. but why not avoid that pain? Why not prepare now? At least, at least just start reading, just start learning, just start tinkering. Because even just the act of doing that puts you ahead of the majority of the planet. So, yeah, get learning, guys. Get learning.

Sorry before someone else comments, but it's all based on trust. The entire system is based on trust. And the only difference between inflation and hyperinflation is trust. You guys heard me say that before, but I'm telling you right now, trust is about to be lost. And we're seeing it with the 10-year note. It's selling off. The yield is normalizing because they don't trust the 2% inflation target. And if that trust crumbles and they're playing with that, they're tinkering with that trust.

If it goes, this will happen overnight. Yeah, yeah. I is but gradually than suddenly right I want to get comments from the other two gentlemen whoever whoever wants to dive in first feel free graham you want me to go i'll go yeah go for it yeah i've this uh so funny a kid asked his grandpa sees a dog lying on a bed of nails and the kid asked grandpa why does the dog not get up off the nails doesn't he doesn't hurt and the grandpa says, yeah, it hurts. It just doesn't hurt enough for him to move. And I think that that's what we see with our world, that we, even though we're going through this pain right now, it essentially,

we essentially trust that the government is going to take care of us. And they can't take care of us because they can't take care of themselves. You see, when in Argentina, they just ended income taxes for all people, because they're trying their best to maintain sovereignty over the people for as long as possible because Javier Malay said he's going to break the whole damn thing down. He's going to break all of the government infrastructure to steal from their people down. And it's a high time preference decision, but that's only because our current system has no future, has no long-term future. And with our, with the U.S. at 34 trillion in debt, and if it's not now, it'll be in a week or two, the interest payments are going to be one

trillion soon. The U.S. tax receipts are generally $3 trillion. The U.S. military cost is a trillion and a half. And so we're basically going to, all the taxes that we give to our big overlords is going to go all in interest payments and the military industrial complex. And it's no wonder that Argentina is blowing up the income tax. They realize they don't need that. The only, the only weapon they have is to print money. They print money in good times and bad times. And this is bad times right now. The world's strongest government is becoming insolvent. Hyperinflation is coming to the first world, to the West. And I believe that the fourth turning that we're going through right now is going to be defined by the Bitcoin Revolution. The fourth turnings in the past,

at least for the Western world, is the Great Depression going from most recent back, the Great Depression in World War II, the Civil War American Revolution and the glorious revolution, which is a, which is a historic event in northern Europe. And all of those, it's so ironic, they have this different theme, like the Glorious Revolution was more of industrial, the American Revolution was more about freedom. The Civil War was more about defining, you know,

who was in control of the most powerful nation in the world, or the growing nation in the world, and the Great Depression was about the monetary system. And in my opinion, I think that we're going to have another fourth turning. It's going to be defined by the wrecking of the monetary system that we've been suppressed by for decades for generations. And Bitcoin is going to lead the way. There will be wars. But hopefully it's not as rough as past times and that Bitcoin can get us through as peacefully as possible.

But all the evidence that CJ put forth, it's clear a change is coming, and there's no reason why people shouldn't be paying attention. This might be the last fourth turning with a meaningful amount of physical conflict. Because as everybody was alluding to before, when you have a base layer of money that can't be diluted, these forever wars cease to exist. And so it doesn't prevent physical contact, but it stunts it, and it stunts the ability to fund it in perpetuity. So, yeah, I love that. It's a war on people. You know, and most people don't know this. This is very interesting history.

In the American Revolution, the king, King George, he actually ordered for his army to create inflation. So they attacked the American currency with inflation. So inflation is an act of war. Our government is committing an act of war against us. And instead of fighting back against them physically, we can fight back against with Bitcoin. Because like Ben said, perfectly, it dilutes that. It takes that ability away. And they fight that war against us, just same way British used inflation against the early

American colonies. They use it against us. And it funds all of that crazy stuff that they don't need the taxes for. And now we're getting to the point where people are waking up. And if we can get Bitcoin in there, I think what Ben said is perfect. It's going to stop it. It's going to dilute that because you can't waste your energy on that. It's a waste.

It's a net negative. Yeah. It's, you know, they're using a weapon of inflation. And Bitcoin is just the most efficient way to disarm them. That's it. It's like the anti-weapon. And it's an anti-ballistic missile. much. Graham, I want to get your thoughts there. Yeah, well, I think I totally, totally agree with

what's CJ saying. I mean, it's, it's crazy what's going on. I mean, it's not crazy because it's, it's been, you know, it's been coming for a long time. It's been building for a long time. But we're, we're there now. And, you know, it's there for all to see the bond market is, is crashing. It's imploding. And I, I love the urgent. that he brings that, you know, it's time to do something about it, you know. And yeah, you know, it's, it just adds another layer of, I think it fits perfectly with the whole theme of the show, why we bullish, because, you know, that's the amazing thing about Bitcoin as well, is that you have all these different use cases, right, for Bitcoin.

For the village in El Salvador, it's, you know, it's there for, really, it's for the unbanked. It's for people who can't have access to banking services and now they have a way to participate in a digital economy. That's one use case. For people like us in more in the so-called developed world, it's more maybe a store of value. It's something that we believe in for the long term and so on. And for a micro strategy, it's a hedge against inflation to have it hold it on your balance sheet. And then you know, you got CJ talking about it as systemic diversification, which I think is a great way of framing it. And so whichever way you look at it, you know, Bitcoin is is the answer, right?

And that's why we, that's why we are so bullish. And I have a question though, back to CJ because, you know, like it's a fascinating situation where we're in. Like you say that if the bond market is in, you know, if we're in this kind of debt spiral and it's happening before our eyes, the people who, the players that are in that market, you know, probably are not all going to go into Bitcoin. Although, you know, it's interesting to see someone like Nari Fink talk about Bitcoin being a flight to quality, right? And that's a pretty pretty big statement. But, you know, where, where are they going to go? If they get out of the bond market, presumably they're not all going to go.

It's a big point even though they should. So I'm curious to know what you think, where are these people going to put there? If they take their money out of bonds, where are they going to put it? Dollars, I guess. Yeah, great, great question. And there's two points there. The first point I want to highlight is the transfer of risks that's taking place right now. because if you look at the $5.9 trillion on the sidelines,

that's not the smart money you're talking about. They're the ones who are selling you the bonds, right? It's the idiots who are buying the bonds because, oh, we can get five and a half percent. Well, I mean, come on. Look, it's just like crypto. You can't stake and get five and a half percent because if you stake, you're just not getting diluted, right? because the yield, it's being paid with newly created tokens. So there is no earned income that's being redistributed.

The same thing with the dollar. And these guys understand that. When you're managing large amounts of wealth, it's very easy, especially when it's your own wealth. It's very easy to understand the loss of purchasing power and what happens to that. So if you look at who's been buying the bonds, insurance companies, mutual funds, pension funds, guess that's the people that's the people all the all the big smart money they're exiting the market they're the sellers and then they're selling it with the yield to the dumb money so the risk is

being transferred from the smart people or smart money to the to the i don't want to call them dumb because they're really just being taken advantage of a lot of them don't you know you you get a contribution from your 401k and they match you so you don't want to do a self-directed 401k because you'll lose your match there's all these different corrupt incentives within the system. And most of the time, you know, people have a family. They want to live life and enjoy it. So very few people are paying close enough attention unless you're not paycheck to paycheck and you have a lump sum of money that you're trying to protect and you can see how your purchasing power is deteriorating. So unfortunately, the first topic is the transfer of risk is actually

going from the smart money who's selling to the public dumb money managed in pension funds, mutual funds, insurance companies. And you can notice how insurance costs are going. up all the people who are buying the bonds right now are going to get caught holding the bag the smart money is exiting where are they going to that's the second part of the question anything that any asset bitcoin look at gold historically gold the price of when interest rates go up the price of gold goes down that's because people can't earn anything with gold because it doesn't there's no counterparty risk therefore it doesn't need to pay any type of uh p y you don't it doesn't need to because there's no counterparty risk. But when you get out of something that's paying you like that,

and you eliminate that counterparty risk, that's the goal. Eliminate counterparty risk. That's the, that's the whole thing. When the treasuries are backing the system as the systemic collateral, when they're the assets that bank, that back the bank's deposit liabilities, when they're the assets that back the insurance company's ability to cover a claim, when they're the assets that are supposed to pay through Social Security, when they're the assets that are supposed to pay through Social Security, when they're the assets that are supposed to perform and they're not performing, like I said before, the worst since 1787, where can you go? And the answer to that is hard assets, gold, silver, real estate, assets that take energy to create. Of course, Bitcoin is the apex predator of store of value assets because of its design.

Satoshi is a freaking genius because he designed Bitcoin. You know, the price of gold has maintained its purchasing power through the years because as they dilute the dollar, the cost for the miner to pull the gold out of the ground continues to go up. And as long as people want to buy gold because of its value proposition, well, the person who sees the value in that proposition is going to have to pay a price above the cost. Otherwise, the miner is going to go out of business. See, business 101 is I can't sell something for less than it costs me to produce. So that's how gold stores its value. It's a natural law of economics and business where the cost forms a baseline. And if you believe in the value proposition of that product, then you'll pay above the cost. Well, Bitcoin, we see the hash rate going parabolic.

Well, something happens when the hash rate goes up. When the hash rate goes up and blocks our mind at a faster than a 10-minute pace, every 2016 blocks, the difficulty adjustment kicks in. And when the difficulty goes up, the cost goes up. So price drives hash rate. Hash rate drives difficulty. Difficulty drives cost. So the cost of gold will go up relative to the devaluation of the dollar. The cost of Bitcoin will go up, not only relative to the devaluation of the dollar, but also

relative to the increased cost to generating and earning that Bitcoin. It is the apex predator of how to store value. So they might not be getting in it now and they might be waiting for some time. Usually when the yield curve normalizes, like when the long term rates go back above the short term rates, shortly after that, you know, you know, you have a recession. So a lot of these guys, they might be holding off. I think the last semblance of control,

the reason the Yoker haven't normalized yet, is because at some point in time, there's going to be this liquidity crisis, right? At some point in time, there's going to be this March 2020 moment where for a short period of time, you're going to be able to get discount prices. And I think some of the smarter money,

some of the higher net worth individuals are trying to time the market and trying to figure out when to deploy that cash to get the most real world assets they can get for that fake currency. So we're in the middle of it right now. There's no one answer. Oh, this is where they went. Because we're in the process of that transfer of risk.

And we're in the process of that transfer of wealth from something that's backed by nothing to real world assets and commodities that are backed by tangible value and cost structure. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I don't even know where to go next with that, to be honest. It's much there. I mean, yeah, I was I was just off in my own thoughts here thinking about, you know, a few steps down the line from what you're talking about. But, okay, gentlemen, I'm conscious of time.

I've got to start rounding things out. But this has been excellent. And I want to end it on a high note. And usually the way that I round out my episodes is I like to do a round of any final thoughts, anything you just kind of want to put a nice little bow on at the end and kind of sum up your takeaways from the episode. But the other thing I also like to challenge everybody on the panel to do is to give a recommendation. And a recommendation can come in many different forms. If there is a book, a podcast, an article, a video, something that you've seen that you

particularly like and you think people should check out, then that's always great. If there is an app, a device, a new technology, something that you think is cool that would maybe benefit users to check out, then you can throw that out there. Or if it can just be a personal experience and a bit of life advice that you care to bestow upon the viewers, anything that you think that they could take a little nugget of knowledge and do something with after this show, a call to action, if you will. then this is your chance to throw it out there as well. So I'll start with mine. Final thoughts here. Again, Bitcoin in its very nature does not ask permission. It only exists because somebody chose not to ask permission.

They acted and they let the world deal with what they had bestowed upon everybody. And, you know, I recently had a great conversation with Walker from the crypto couple. And we chatted and he was talking about top down versus ground up. And Bitcoin is inherently a ground up movement. It only exists because it started from the ground up. Top down, again, in a example of El Salvador and Javier, Malay in Argentina, top down is great. It helps speed things along.

It helps people gain their sovereignty quicker. But Bitcoin does not exist and does not function without the bottom up. So you need to grab this thing by the balls and take charge of it. And you need to go and level the fuck up right now. And you're here. You're watching this. You've already taken certain steps. But you can go and you can learn more.

and you can act instead of waiting for somebody to tell you it's okay. You can go and you can learn the tools, learn about the privacy tools, learn about the self-custody, learn how to distribute your keys in a multi-sig so that you're wrench-proof, all of those things. You can level up. There's always a new thing that you can learn,

and even if you're not using it 100% of the time, you can still be ready to use it when you see fit. So that's my piece of advice recommendation for the end of the show here. Graham, I'm going to toss it to you. If there's any final thoughts you'd like to put a pretty little bow on at the end here. And if you have a recommendation, I mean, I can already think of a great recommendation you should throw out there. But take it away, whatever final thoughts you have. Yeah, well, first of all, this has been a blast.

really enjoyed it. It's been a great, great conversation. So thanks again for having me on and thanks to the others as well for the great thoughts and comments. Yeah, I mean, I think just to build on what you said, it's, you know, for me, it's what I guess what I was saying before, it's very much a bottom up movement. I fully believe that and I think that's really exciting. I would add to that, which is what I was kind of just saying before, which is try, you know, a bit of a rallying call to people to try and get outside a little bit of the Bitcoin world and bring some of those values into other areas that have, you know, where there's obvious overlap

to really to try and, you know, to orange pill more people. because I do think we we do get in our echo chambers. We talk a lot at each other and I think we need to get more people on board. But yeah, I guess final recommendation, well, obviously I'd love people to check out the film that I that's, you know, that was that I got behind

that I produced and it was released in September I think it might be the first Bitcoin film that actually got a distribution deal. So the whole point of it actually was to try an orange pill people. So it was trying to get it out there to as many people as possible. And it was so we went down the distribution route. It's a 96 minute featured documentary. And yeah, it's out on, well, in the US, it's out on many networks and platforms to rent or buy. I will just add that this was never a profit-making venture for me.

If there are any profits by any chance, then the vast majority of those go to Bitcoin Beach and there and Hope House, which is the other project, which is all about supporting local community projects and so on. And so, but it's, yeah, it's, it's out on, you know, on Amazon, Apple TV, YouTube movies. So, you know, obviously check that out. And just a shout out as well, something that's not related to me, but something that is, I've seen happening, is something called Film Fest, which is a Bitcoin Club, a Film Fest club. and they're doing a lot of work around trying to highlight all these Bitcoin documentaries and Bitcoin content, video content that's coming out. So a shout out to them. They're in Lugano right now at that conference and they're going to various different conferences. But yeah, that's it. Thanks. Thanks so much. That's awesome. And yes, there's so many great content creators that are telling,

I think compelling stories about how Bitcoin affects people. And I think those are the stories that hook people. If people don't have a proclivity for economics, or they have a difficult time relating to historical examples of currency debasement and all the political ins and outs that come with some of these things. Human stories can greatly impact people. And if you're great at telling those stories

and you have content that can be based around those types of things, I think it's incredibly beneficial to Orange Pill people in a different light than maybe we're used to, but I think a much needed one. So yeah, check out Dare to Dream. And also Bitcoin Film Fest,

there's lots of other little rabbit holes. You can head down there. But anyways, I'm going to toss it down to Ulrich here. And yeah, man, final thoughts and recommendations. Go ahead. Yeah, my final thoughts, generally speaking, it's we have to be, the storytelling is very important to me. The content creation is very important to me.

And we don't just have to be in our own. we don't we don't necessarily need another podcast and we need people to take the information that they get from these podcasts from talking to one another and venture out into the world and let the normies know and bitcoin's going to do what bitcoin's going to do you know 10 minutes you know you know tick-tock next block but it's important that your loved ones realize the things that they're missing because they're just watching the eight o'clock news. They're just watching the big three-letter mainstream media. They're reading the New York Times. And your impact on their lives could be life-changing if you take that time to ingest the information that we talk about

on a regular basis and package it in a way that's best told from your purview and share it with those people that you care about. And so that's it for. from me and I try to do that my very best with the time I have. I have a full-time career, but when I'm not working, when I'm not working out, making sure I'm putting together the story, the stories that I see most effective for sharing Bitcoin with the people that I love. And in terms of a recommendation besides my own content, I would say, go visit PLEB underground. Coinicrous and Walton, they're underappreciated. They are one of the podcasts I turn. tune into on a regular basis and I consider them some of my closest uh bitcoin uh friends in that

in bitcoin Twitter in the digital world um I the only the only the only thing that I wish is that they were close to me so I could spend more real lifetime with them they are that cool they're that trustworthy and they put their heart and soul into every episode and so I would recommend that you um watch like and subscribe to PLEB underground when you get a moment shout out to Bill Coyne-Icarus and Walton in the UK. I'll let you boy. Awesome. I always love running into those guys.

And yeah, it's good to see. I've seen Walton recently in a couple spots, but it's been a little while since I've been a minute since I've seen Phil. So hopefully I get to bump into him again soon. So yeah, awesome. Well, let's toss it over to CJ for final words here. Any final thoughts and recommendations? Go ahead, man. Absolutely. So number one, what could make me wrong? I think it's important to understand that. So if we see the government cut spending significantly, in other words, if the government decides they are not going to deficit spend and they are only going to spend the money they collect in taxes, my thesis is invalidated. So keep an eye for that. And then that brings me to my recommendation, which somebody brought up earlier, the price of tomorrow. That is.

It's so important to understand how economics really works because the cure for higher prices is higher prices because higher prices make producers more profitable. They get to invest their profits in expanding supply. When they expand their supply, their marginal cost of production goes down, meaning the cost per unit of what they're creating goes down. And when the marginal cost of production goes down, the producer can actually lower the front-end price. by prices going higher and producers becoming more profitable, they reinvest that profit in supply,

and it lowers the front end price, but they sell more units and make more money anyway. So Jeff does a great job of laying that out in the price of tomorrow, and you can understand how, just because prices are going, look, when prices go down, demand increases. When demand increases, you sell more units. When you sell more units, you can create more units. That's a healthy economy. So these are things that we can keep an eye on. How can I be wrong? How can we set this system up so that it works properly so that we see true healthy growth versus this fake inflationary growth? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I think, you know, I think it's a solid, especially Price of Tomorrow is such a great kind of tool to get people to dive in because it's not a Bitcoin book, right? It doesn't even mention Bitcoin to what chapter nine, something like that. The last chapter, yeah. Yeah. Close to. It's such a great segue because it doesn't mention it anywhere on the actual book, anywhere anywhere until you get to that part.

And so, yeah, if you want to, if you want to orange pill people, if you want to get people kind of, you know, just thinking economically in a way where the world suddenly starts to make sense, oh, I get why we're getting so screwed. It's not just the inflation that's screwing us. It's that we're, it's double as insidious because we're not benefiting from the deflation we would be experiencing. I had this moment actually with my wife the other day where she realized, like, just how much we're getting fucked.

She was like, she was like, all I said was, would you say that we've gotten, better or worse at building things efficiently. She's like, well, I mean, of course, we're always getting better at building things. I'm like, so technically speaking, shouldn't things be getting cheaper? And she's like, I mean, yeah, like if we're able to make them more efficiently. So then technically speaking, it's not just that things are getting, you know, that we're getting screwed because things are getting more expensive. It's that things should be getting cheaper.

So you're not just factoring in the inflation. that's not just the stated pain that's being caused. It's the savings that we could be making with the fruits of our labor. It's like, what is the stated inflation versus how much more efficient are we getting at making things? And that's how much you're getting screwed. They're stealing your time. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And so I love that framing. And I love getting people to think more deeply about just how insidious inflation truly, truly is. So gentlemen, I'm going to wrap it there. I'm going to say thank you so much all for spending the time here on a Friday evening,

getting bullish. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Everybody watching, all these gentlemen's handles are in the show notes. So please go follow them. And from there, you'll be able to find all of the other things that they are up to.

And, yeah, guys, thank you so much. You're all welcome back. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. Cheers, guys. Awesome. And everybody in the chat as I flick a few switches here. Again, please do follow all these gentlemen. All of their info is down below. Go check them out. Go check out the Dare to Dream film as well. It is epic. And a lot of blood, sweat, and tears pour into that. And if you can support it by going and renting or purchasing it, that's a huge help. And it helps encourage those that are telling those stories. and helping to orange pill the world

through those human stories, it's a really cool thing to see. So please go support that. Dare to Dream is the film and just go follow the handle and the show notes and you'll find more links from there. Anyways, guys, I do want to say

thank you all for being a part. The chat, I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing you guys all there. Phil, Rand, David, Simmer, everybody that I see in there. Thank you guys for being here. Mr. C, everybody that's in there in a regular. Everybody that did smash the like button and share this. I appreciate it. If you did not already, please go do that, obviously.

If you want to help the show in another way, of course, you can hit up the previously soon mentioned sponsors that I had, hoddle, hoddle, coin kite, Ced, or nunchucks, start nine. And if you really liked what you saw, you can hit up my website, bTCsessions.ca. And you can also go ahead and if you need some handholding, book me for private one-on-one sessions. I do plenty of those these days. For people that just need a little bit of extra help, maybe the free tutorials aren't cutting it. And you just want somebody kind of looking over your shoulder, making sure that you're doing everything right. You can hit me up for that.

Anyways, guys, I'm out. Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening wherever you may be. And I will see you guys next time for your daily. session.