BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Daniel Prince, Lina Seiche, Joe Hall - Bullish Bitcoin Sentiments Explored! ep357

Episode Date: July 29, 2023

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What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? I'm still on the road. I'm in Italy, currently in Matera and more traveling to go. So I'll be continuing to travel around for the next few weeks here before heading home. But we're keeping it going. We've got more guests, more Why Are We Bullish in a European time zone, if you will.

So you don't have to wake up in the middle of the night to catch the show. show, as I'm sure you're doing if you're European, obviously. Of course, this is live, as we saw last week. Who knows what my internet connection could do? It could do all kinds of fun things. So in that case, I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay.

We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. If you have not already, like you. subscribe, share, all those things help a ton. Shout out to people watching on YouTube, Twitter, Noster, Rumble, all of them. Hey, guys, give it a share.

I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. All right, before we dive in, let's take a quick look at where we are in the market right now. This is timeschain calendar.com. We're sitting at $29,339 per coin, a single. U.S. dollar will pick you up 3,408 sats. In terms of fees, next block, 20 sats per byte, if you're willing to wait a bit, 13 sats per byte should do you.

And in terms of Bitcoin mined, 19.44 million of them, that is 92.58% of the entire supply. And a little side note over the past week, we saw Block 800,000. Nice little milestone there. Shout out to sponsors of the show, hottlehottle.com. If you're stacking stats and you got a few priorities in mind, like peer-to-peer trading, instant self-custody, no K-YC. You can head to hoddlehottle.com, sign up with nothing more than an email address, scroll down, choose a currency, a payment method, and an amount, start viewing offers right away.

They also have peer-to-peer lending in which nothing is ever re-hypothicated. You can check them out. Links are down below. Also, if you get your hands on non-KYC sats, you're going to want to secure them with some of the best hardware on the market. Coin Kite is killing it. I love my cold card mark four. They've got tons of other great stuff like the tap signer, the sats cards, block clocks, open dimes, and coming really soon.

Very excited for the cold card Q1 later this year. If you want to reserve it or pick up any of the other things I mentioned, head to coin kite.com. Use code BTC sessions for 5% off everything in the store. If you're looking to go beyond single-sig, you can dive into multi-sig with Nunchuk. Again, I've done a ton of videos on these guys. Their assisted multi-sig setup is awesome. You can set it up very easily on a mobile device using things like the tap sign of the cold card and a ton of other hardware options.

Once it's set up, they hold one key and you hold the rest of the keys in your multi-sig. It has built-in inheritance planning so your sats get to your next to kin, if anything should happen to you. And the best part about it also, no K-YC. You don't need to give up personal information to set this thing up and have it work for you. So check out of nonchuk.i-o. And last shout out of the show, start 9.com, your sovereign computing solution.

You can run your full Bitcoin stack and all your data on these things. You can basically set it up, grab a device from them. They have entry level, mid-tier, and what I'm running, the server pure, which is a beast of a computer. You can host Bitcoin Core, your Lightning Node, Mempool.Space, join Market. You can also host your data like files, photos, passwords. You can host Noster Relays, Noster Clients, and a ton of other awesome stuff. Check them out. Start9.com.

And if you're unsure how to use the thing, check out my tutorials on it as well. Anyways, guys, enough of my rambling. I want to get my guests in here really quick. So a huge welcome to, I think, first time on the show, long time coming. But welcome to Lena. Good to see you. How are you? Hello.

I am great. Yeah, finally. Because we're always in different time zones. I know, I know. It was always a pain. But I'm glad now that I'm over here, even though we're not in the exact same place, you're finally here. And might I add, while the others are off the same time? screen, the most punctual of the bunch.

Like, just incredibly, incredibly on time. If I were to compare, I would say, just so very on time, unlike Joe, Joe time. What time is it? I don't know. Surfing time, apparently. And we're going to also welcome in Daniel and Lauren, some of my favorite expad brits. How you doing guys? Welcome.

I'm very glad to have you all. Thank you for being here. This should be a good run. Very excited. We'll do a quick round of who are you and what do you do. And then we'll dive in. Lena, I'll toss it to you first. Can you give yourself a quick intro?

Yeah, I'm Lena. I am the creator slash mommy of The Little Hodler. So I populate the wholesome side of Bitcoin Twitter. and I put in some pallet cleanses every now and then that are just friendly and happy. I make comics and I have an online store where Little Hodler has a bunch of products, a bunch of new products soon.

And yeah, generally I do, yeah, actually that's all I do. I love it. Your Little Hodler collection is now also populating my home. I believe we have seven now that are populating my daughter's bedroom. And on the wholesome note, I think I saw the little Hodler in the back cover their ears when I played that clip at the very beginning. So apologies to Little Hodler for the salt on the ears there. I will toss it down to Joe.

Good to see you, man. Welcome back to the show. Can you give yourself an intro? Hello, Ben. No, thank you very much for having me on. I think the last time we did this, it was the Christmas one. Yes. When I was definitely a bit smashed at 1 a.m. in my girlfriend's dad's house,

trying to keep it together while speaking to like Jack Muller's and, was it Samson, I think? Yes. It was quite the event. And also, Lena, I don't have a little hoddler yet. I still don't have one. I genuinely, I tried to order one in the UK a while ago. And then I think I got to the end of the booking journey or something recently. And then I saw that, you know, Samuel, that Lauren's twin brother has one of the King Charles Hodlors from Prague.

And I really wanted one of those as well. It still didn't walk away with it. So I need to. Joe. Need to. Yeah. You need to go with the program. That breaks my heart.

Yeah. We're just going to. What can I say, Joe? Yeah. You know, Lena, for you, I'm going to buy Joe. See you later. We'll be here. But we expect some orders to be flying through in the back.

I'll send you, won't you? Thank you. I think, did I not? Hold on. Yeah. I think I asked you guys for an address so I can send you a hoddler. Oh, you did. I wanted to send you a pizza hoddler.

Yeah, I had a letter written for you and all. Oh, yeah? And, yeah, I had selected a number of people, like five people that I sent a hoddler to. I wrote a letter. when was one of them, I think. You were the only one who didn't send me an address, so your letter is still with me. No way.

I'm going back to our DMs now, realizing how terrible my intro line was. It's called my phone, actually. Amazing. Yeah, what do I do? I work as a reporter, content creator, film general dog's body at Coins Telegraph, at Coin Telegraph, sorry.

And I'm also, you know, trying to do Bitcoin stuff around the world. One of those hats, literally, is, wait, where's the logo? Is for Relay, who were all currently repping today. Sorry, Ben, we're invading your sponsors. I was going to say, I saw the comment on Twitter. I had no idea. This was not planned. Are you sure Julian didn't pay you?

Yeah. Quite positive. I've been checking my wallet to see if anything came through, but it doesn't look like it. No shame. Awesome. And apparently I need to do this because this means that I'm reading the chat, my Marcus said. There you go. There you go.

Speaking of which, I should probably get the chat up here, by the way, before we do the last intros. Just so everybody knows, the live chat will be in the right hand of the screen from now on. So any new comments will start to populate there. And they'll be up for the entire show for better or worse. Anyways, we'll do our last intros. I'll toss it to Lauren first. Can you give yourself an introduction? Hi, I'm Lauren Prince, the, well, co-host of the once-fitting podcast.

And I am probably sold. Was I supposed to say my age? You can. Okay, well, yeah. You should say, you should start saying co-host and founder of one's been podcast and Daniel can be your dad can be your lackey. Yeah. I wanted to say host, but, you know.

Anything to say to that, Daniel? Hanging on to my own show with a thread, Ben. I think so. They grow up fast. You're going to face this. Like when your kids, 10, 11, 12, they're just going to come in and take it all over. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll be all.

I'll be out of a job super quick. Yeah, it's coming. I can sense it. Well, I'm glad to have you all. This should be a fun one. For those in the chat or those watching that are unfamiliar or listening to the pod later. This is why are we bullish. Very, very simple premise. Each one of us has come with a reason for being bullish, something that we're excited about in and around Bitcoin. And the flow of the show is somebody first is going to drop a reason why. they are bullish, it can be anything. Personal experience, an application, a piece of news, whatever it may be. It doesn't matter. The world is your oyster. But after they drop their reason and give a little rant on it, number two, we're all going to riff on that reason, questions, comments, whatever may come up, whatever rabbit holes we want to go down.

And then finally, three, we're going to rotate until everybody has had a turn. So reason, riff, rotate. I'm going to get us started today really quick, and then we'll dive into our guest reasons. Um, my reason for being bullish this week, uh, is just in and around a, uh, I'm, I'm going to kind of focus on one piece of software. Um, but I, uh, I'm, I'm going to kind of broaden it out to, we'll say the state of lightning wallets in general, um, that I'm, I'm very excited about. So I just want to bring up this one particular. This is called mutiny wallet. And, um, and so, MUNYWallet is a lightning wallet that is kind of focusing on being accessible despite whatever app stores may do. As we've kind of seen the past little bit, there's been some stuff in and around, especially Noster with Domas and any other iOS apps in and around Noster that have zapping or basically tipping people

and sending lightning transactions back and forth, that Apple has basically said, no, you're not allowed to do that. You can use Apple Pay instead. We want our 30% more or less. And so they've begun forcing apps like that to remove lightning. And for me, it kind of harkens back to the day when I first abandoned iPhone back in, I think it was 2014 or 2015,

when they initially banned all Bitcoin wallets from the app store. And at that point, because I was going down the rabbit hole and was so excited about Bitcoin, that I was like, oh, wow, they can just do that. I guess I'll go somewhere else. And that's when I first started using an Android phone and just kind of since then I haven't gone back. But it's giving me, you know, memories of that. And so, you know, any app store is a single point of failure, whether it be iOS or whether it be Android. or rather the Google Play Store. And so what Mutiny is doing is saying like,

hey, we're going to do a web app, which means you can access it from any browser. But some of the interesting stuff around it is what this app actually does. And so what it does is you can basically set up a self-custody lightning wallet on the fly without having to worry about channels or any sort of background lightning wizardry. they call it. So you can pretty much out the box, set it up and be ready to go and start receiving payments right away. It backs up in a very familiar way. You've got a regular seed phrase, so nothing more than that. You just got to have your words. It will work on any device,

whether it be desktop, whether it be mobile, whether it be any, whether it be iPhone or Android or whatever browser you're using, does not matter. An iPad, whatever. It will just work there. Beyond that, you can integrate it with Nostras, so you can be zapping from Mutiny. Again, there's the App Store thing where it's censorship resistant. It's open source, so you can audit it. You can create issues and suggest changes. And you can also fork it if you don't like how they're doing it. You can even host the infrastructure yourself if you don't want to trust them and their code and the way they're hosting it. And then they're also starting to integrate things like they say they're going to be dropping synthetic USB, basically being able to have like a stable USD balance with DLCs.

And they're also integrating coin join. So they're doing a whole bunch of different things. I'm kind of excited about this. I didn't realize how much they were doing until I was looking at it with their latest updates in the news today. and it just looks really, really cool, and I'm kind of excited for it. And outside of this, in terms of other lightning things, like Phoenix wallet, which is also self-custody, you don't have to, you know, you don't have to be non-custodial, is doing really cool things with how efficient they are, with their like channels and everything in the

background, stuff that the regular user doesn't have to know. Oh, good, there's a fake me in the chat, by the way. That's wonderful. Let's just block that person. Goodbye. And I'll delete that. Wonderful. Anyways. So, nonetheless, I like how it's still in the, let's just get rid of that chat overlay and put it back. There's a fake me there. Ignore that. Anyways, Phoenix wallet is really making things a lot more efficient. And then beyond that, the other one I'm very excited about is Zeus wallet.

They're going to be rolling out a non-custodial way of using lightning on your phone, which doesn't have to link to your own node. It will just be a node running entirely on your phone. And if I'm not mistaken, they're going to have lightning addresses too. So it'll be the first, I think the first instance of a lightning address that is non-custodial without having to run a full node and manage your channels and do all that stuff. You can just boot it up and say, here's my lightning address and it's in my own custody. So anyways, the long and the short of it is I'm very excited for what's happening with wallets and in particular lightning wallets because it's getting easier and easier over time to use them in a non-custodial fashion.

And I think that will continue to improve. So I'm going to kind of just leave it there and open it up to you guys. comments, questions, kind of where you're at with lightning your experiences thus far. Whoever wants to dive in, feel free. No, that's really cool, actually. I was at a conference last weekend in Germany.

Everybody was paying with lightning at the merch booths, but everybody's using Wallet or Satoshi, right? Which, no shade, I think. I haven't had any issues. How dare you? It's got to be one of them, right? But that's cool. Is there anything, because everything you said just now sounded like the perfect pitch,

is there anything you would have that you could say is missing or that you could complain about with mutiny? So the lightning address thing is, in my opinion, key. It's one of those features that I think will become more and more important because people don't want to deal with invoices. They want to just say, can you just say, can you just see? send me, you know, BTC sessions at Mutiny or whatever it is. They want a simple solution like that where you don't have to be like, can you create an invoice or here's my LN URL string? It needs to be simple.

Yeah, I think things like that are going to be important. Backups with Bitcoin have always been, like even just your 12 words. I think a mainstream audience might need the possibility of, something like a one-click and clip encrypted kind of thing. I know that's not perfect for your hardcore bitcoins, but you know, that it will be helpful for others. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of like all the lightning stuff in the background is starting to be obfuscated.

The tricky bit, I think, will be getting people to understand what's happening the first time you receive a transaction because you have to do an on-chain transaction. which there's going to be a regular on-chain fee to do that the first time, which will come out of your receiving amount. After that, you have regular lightning transactions. So, yeah, I don't know. That's kind of, it's coming. That's the thing with Phoenix, right, isn't it?

Like in an ideal world, you know, when you introduce someone to Bitcoin for the first time, you use a lightning wallet, which is non-custodial, and Phoenix used to be 3,000 stats, now it's 10,000 stats. I'm guessing that to create a channel on Zeus, when that's got LNURL. Because when you started, I didn't realize that the new Zeus wallet might have the LN URL addresses

because that means that you can do the whole welcome to Bitcoin thing. I'm like, yo, I just orange pill, this communist. Look at his LN URL code. It's non-custodial. And that way no one on the internet can, you know, dump on you because it's non-custodial, holding your own keys. And just, Lena, to your point about the wallop sotoshi

people are paying with them, Adam Back uses wallop to pay for stuff in Ligano. And of course, no one was dunking on him when he was, you know, paying for stuff. There's this really cool payment video of him walking around Ligano shops paying for stuff. And you could just see the green screen popping up, like the very, like, distinctive Wallet Satoshi screen. I was like, no way. Adam Back is using Wallet Satoshi. How dare he?

I know, right? I would hope nobody seriously dunks on anyone for using a, a custodial wallet to use Bitcoin because that is completely, that completely misses the point. I think you'd be happy for somebody to use Bitcoin. And yeah, of course, then from there you're like, educate yourself, blah, blah, blah, but come on. Yeah.

Well, with Lightning, yes. With base chain, if using custodial base chain, I'd probably dunk on them, just because, come on, I get off Coinbase, you know, this sort of thing. But the Lightning, I think that the thing with Lightning is it is still technically an experimental technology, right? Stuff still does go wrong.

And like, you know, Ben's explaining that stuff is getting so much better. And it's crazy the proliferation and the choice of wallets now. But it's still, like, don't put your life savings in lightning unless it's your only life savings. Like the Cuban people that I was with, they only use lightning because base chain is too expensive to deal with. And they only have like, you know, $20 or $30 for saving. So for them, a self-custodial lightning wallet is the way forward. And that's also made me think, okay, what does Bitcoin look like in 15 years? Will there people that are just layer two only and will never interact with the base chain?

You know, will that be like a flex? Do you think that? Because I've heard that a couple times now. And I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing or a neutral thing. Because it doesn't have the security, does it? The base chain does. And it's inherently riskier. Well, not riskier, but it's still not layer two.

you know it's not the trilemma yeah what do you think princy who's building it Ben do you know who's behind it yeah it's uh it's Georgio Tony Georgia

yeah so there's a few of the devs here hold on a sec here so Tony Georgio Ben Carmen and Paul Miller okay yeah so

I mean it's pretty solid I mean one of the Ben's is there so it's got my stamp So you were paid to shill it this week, right? Yeah, exactly. We had a council meeting and we decided that it shall be shilled. And so it was.

You're being outshilled by relay, three to one here. That is true. That's fair. I mean, Daniel and Lauren, you guys have played around with lightning here and there. Like, what would, you know, obviously like everybody's played around with custodian. audio lightning apps and everything. Daniel, I know you were playing around also with nodes and things like that. You know, where does self-custody lightning need to be to make it accessible to your average person, like where that might be a first choice rather than a second? Yeah, exactly. I mean, it needs to be better, as we all know, and that's what these guys

are truly trying to solve, right? So if we can be the people now just to push that problem, aside with this mutiny app is huge man I mean that they're going to get all of the next like round of orange pills because we will all jump straight to there if it works it looks like it will and if you've got these guys behind it you know Ben we all know very well uh I don't see why it wouldn't um yeah so let's go bring it more more bitcoin apps Lauren when you're getting uh when when when you're getting money from your dad in whatever form. Does he pay you in lightning or on chain?

I have no idea because, well, I don't have my own wallet and he does it for me. So he's not paying me. I won't even know. Don't trust. Although, yeah, it looks as though they're going to be getting their own phones soon. You say soon and then you say it's going to say. I keep delaying and I keep doing. Because I see what it does.

I see what it does to kids. But I had a guy on the show recently, Romero from Above Phone. And he specializes in like the pixel phones. And so I can buy direct from him and it's going to come all privacy, piped up and everything, all the stuff that I couldn't have done myself, is all going to be ready and, you know, good to go. So I'm much happier to buy, you know, Lauren and Savage. who's still only 12, coming on 13,

much happy to buy them a device that's already preloaded with that kind of location is off, this is done, there's no 5GMM and all the kind of funky stuff that I really don't know about, rather than just be the dude that's like, yeah, let's go get you the latest iPhone and put you on there and be tracked for the rest of your life. So we are going to be starting with a privacy phone.

So the next idea would be for them to have their lightning wallet on there. so if mutiny is ready and up and running, what a great way to start. What a great way to start kids off on a privacy phone with a custodial lightning wallet, so then I can just ping them the sets for cutting the grass or... Co-hosting the podcast. Oh, that's right.

That's awesome. I think you're probably talking about one of those like a graphene, like pre-installed graphene or calyx. exactly something like that. Yep. Yeah. And actually what I'll say is,

Lauren, I think you're in a unique spot where your digital footprint is probably minimal or non-existent at this point. And you could go into your digital life actually with a clean slate and actually be pretty damn private and have control of your own data,

unlike all of us who literally had no idea what we're doing for like a decade and a half, two decades. And now we're like, what is even on the internet? I don't know what of my data is where. And like, we're all screwed. You might not be. So, yeah, that's pretty awesome. Also, I'm guessing Lauren wasn't involved in the ledger leak either.

Because that's big, man. Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah, that's good. It's good you don't know. Yeah. Awesome. Well, yeah.

So, I mean, I'll just kind of wrap this topic by saying those of you that maybe are using, you know, wallet of Satoshi or Blink is another good, like, custodial option, things like that. If you're using those, play with some other lightning wallets that are non-custodial. They are getting better and better. Phoenix is awesome. Breeze is another good one. When Zeus drops their new update, that'll be amazing. And Mutiny looks very promising. And you can use the beta version.

Now it's still early. But check it out. Play around. Might be worth playing. But I'll finish off that topic there. Can I ask you a quick question, then, before we move on. I saw your screenshot of the Blockstream green or jade. I forget which color it was.

which had all three wallets in one. And I've actually just started playing around with the actual hardware wallet, which is the Jade or Green. Again, I don't know which one. Have you used the Lightning wallet on there? I'm guessing it's non-custodial. And could you, in theory, use that as your everything wallet? You have a bit of savings on there.

You have a bit of spending on there for the Lightning. And then in theory, you could have a multi-sig set up on there as your long-term or life savings. Yes. I got access to it when I was in Prague. They had like a special QR you could scan to try it out early. And I think they've since opened it up a little bit. So more people can try it right now. I don't know if the lightning is accessible to everyone yet.

I don't have it online. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I think there's a setting where you can turn on experimental features or like new stuff. But I played with the lightning. And it's very similar to like a Phoenix or something like that. It's a little bit different. but yeah, you basically boot it up.

It's self-custody, and you can receive lightning payments right away. So you can have on-chain, lightning and liquid and hardware all in one place on your mobile device. Actually, I have a video that is coming out in like two or three days on it going through how to use all of that. So yeah, it's awesome. It's really good. And again, like another, that one slipped my mind. But another example of lightning is getting better. And I think they're going to be adding in the ability to swap between on-chain to lightning to liquid all natively within the app, which would be amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's always that thing of when you orange or onboard someone to lightning, especially in a poorer country, they're always like, I want to hold dollars though. So that, I mean, I know that stable sats on blink is a good way around that. But to actually have the USDT. Some people really want that tether as opposed to anything else. They don't want that synthetic version, which is what obviously mutiny is going to do as well.

So if Blockstream can nail that, then that could be a really good solution as well. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I think liquid is hideously underutilized just because it's a good go-between because lightning has to be a hot wallet. On-chain, you can store with cold storage, like a hardware wallet. But on-chain fees can get prohibitively expensive for people in countries where they're not making a lot of money. And it can get prohibitively expensive for your average person in the West that's just doing $20 DCAs, right?

Like that doesn't make sense to be sending around that much. So I think liquid is a good go-between because fees are nothing and you can secure it with hardware. So, you know, your midterm stack, it might be a good approach. And if you can swap between them, then that's great. So, yeah, Joe, Joe's, yeah. Now we're going to see Joe sending LBT to people in his next video on the street. Probably. And again, that's going to be like, it's a what?

Yes, it's called liquid and basically it's going to change the world. they're going to get witter and weirder, aren't they? Yeah, I'm waiting for it to happen. Awesome. Okay, so we're going to do a rotation now. I am, and just so you know, I think from time to time,

my connection's a little choppy, so apologies if I glitch a little bit here and there, but I'm going to toss it down to to Daniel and Lauren. I don't know if you each have your own reason for being bullish or if you have a joint one, but however you want to attack it, I'll just cue you up and I'll say, why are you bullish? Take it away. Yeah, cool. Well, yeah, we were both at a recent event just this weekend,

the Bitcoin Adventure weekend in Avon Valley. Joe was there last year. And it was another washout, the weather, the British summer is, you know, it was just amazing. Three days of straight rain and 15 degree temperature. but that did not damp on the spirits with the whole weekend and this was real grass roots nitty gritty plebby stuff you know like real down dirty there was no kind of big names no we were in a tent in the middle of a field in a rainy fricking shitty part of uh britain but all talking bitcoin all of the time and they had some presentations up there people like Victoria Collette Jones she gave the history of central banking and she's written the book Truth Decay we had some artists in

there rebel money art was there he gave a presentation about the history of art and started with you know the very first inscription on the blockchain obviously the Genesis block and then he talked It's about the, I didn't know that Ben Ben Ben Anki's in there. Did anyone else know that? Yeah. Ben Ben Ben Ben Ben Anke, like back in the day, Ben Ben Ben Ben Beninke was inscribed into the Bitcoin blockchain. I can't remember by who.

I hope Rebel Money releases this presentation because it was great. But yeah, somebody did the ones and zeros classic, and there he is, there's Ben Ben Ben Bananke in the Bitcoin blockchain, because obviously he was the Fed chairman at whatever point that he was inscribed in there. And he was just great. to see the community come together and really support each other and find each other because a lot of people in that setting, even though it is probably about 75 to 125 people, a lot of people hadn't met each other before, so you're making new connections. And when you see that happening

at that very grassroots level, you know we've already won. Like, it's over. And that's what I think a lot of us miss a lot of the time, especially if you're concentrating on the headline news. I mean, who cares about fucking BlackRock and all this kind of stuff? When it's the plebs that are doing all the work. And they're in this chat, like every week. We've got plan markers here. We've got the relay guys. We've got yellow.

You know, this is where the work is being done. And this is the takeaway I took from that weekend was just, you know, amazing. And Lauren even got to experience it as well. because there's a bunch of families there. They bought their kids, the kids all running off together and learning together. What did you like about it? I would say learning.

I would most likely say drama. What did you learn to make? Oh, chocolate. I forgot about that part. I forgot I was learning that. Right. Roger 9,000, for those of you that don't follow Roger 9,000, you absolutely should.

He gave a, I, excuse me, a concert on the Saturday night, and Joe's seen that before as well, which is, you know, uncomparable to anything else you've ever seen. But then he wanted to do a homemade workshop, a homemade chocolate workshop for 45 minutes, and the guys were like, yeah, of course, Roger, we'll get you all set up.

And so he does that. But all of the kids were there, all of them. There's a great picture on Bitcoin Twitter, about 15 of them and he had them completely enraptured for about 50 minutes and they all make their homemade chocolate and he was tying

all of the story of cacao and the history the Mayan legend into Bitcoin and they were all just listening absolutely just soaking through them. It was great and again just another reason to be bullish because

to see Roger interacting with the kids and all the kids different ages from like the age of four or five up to 15 or 16. It's great. It's just great to be around. Bitcoiners are the best and that's what makes me very bullish. The best part is I learned how to make chocolate. So whenever I can make chocolate.

That's really difficult though, isn't it? You have to like pepper it or like, don't you? Yeah, surprisingly it's easy. It's like he bought. See, she thinks it's easy because all the ingredients. and the trays and everything were placed in front of her. You do realize people do have to shop for all of the ingredients. Yeah, but mother, she has shopped already.

She thinks hosting a podcast is easy as well. She just turned up five minutes before. Yeah, I've had this set up for like nine months and 15 emails. Like, yeah, just shut up. Let's it. Let's go. No, I tell you, why did you tell me like five minutes before and not like 20 minutes before? But when he tells me like an hour before, I forget.

Is mother available to shop for me as well? I would like some of that chocolate when it gets made. So save something for me. Make me a batch. I just wanted to say I love that because obviously before coming to Bitcoin, a lot of us have had other areas of expertise and other skills. And I think the proclivity of Bitcoiners to be low time preference and to want to spend time on honing a craft means that there's a lot of uniquely specialized people in other areas that we can also learn from that are now in Bitcoin. And that's really cool because you know that there's a base layer of values there that has caused that person to,

learn about their craft outside of Bitcoin maybe a bit more deeply than your average person in that realm. So that's also another cool part about it. I'm just looking at photos now. It's so cool. That photo of Roger and all the kids running with the metal bowls, that is gold. Yeah, it's awesome. It's also cool at these conferences, if it was remotely like the one I went to on the weekend, is we also had loads of kids there actually

they were building sand castles and the sand citadels anyway the entire weekend nobody checked the Bitcoin price you know nobody I think you could like if you asked us like what's the price like

even right now I couldn't tell you actually but like it just doesn't at that level it does not matter everything matters but not not the price not the short term Yeah. Where were you, Lena? In Germany. We also had very British weather, by the way. It was a German event. It was, yeah, I'd like to give them a little shout out.

It was organized by the block trainer, guys. They're the biggest German-speaking Bitcoin brand. And they orange-pilled many, many people. And every time they do a conference, it is top-notch. And they doubled their attendance compared to last year, just crazy, especially in an environment. That's really cool. I've actually got Roman coming on. You had bad weather.

We had bad weather. It was bad weather in France, but the world is burning and about to fall out of the sky. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, I don't know. I did sweat my balls off here in Italy. It lost a little bit. Rome was a little rough the other day. but it also was it's actually pretty nice here on Matera so yeah

I was gonna say the yeah that picture I just pulled it up here but that's great everybody's got their own little dishes and everything just like yeah and the molds the mold's a little Bitcoin so you make a bit a chocolate Bitcoin coin yeah but when you turn it out it has the be in all of like the electrical kind of circuit board on there and everything. And yeah, it's just amazing. That's cool. That's really cool.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, again, there's, there's so many cool little get-togethers and events going on. In that same vein, I reached out to a few people in travels and everything. And I'm meeting up with a bunch of bitcoins in Rome, like next week, just out of the blue, a bunch of people are like, yeah, let's get together. So I think there might be, initially it was just going to be like, like,

like two or three people. Now I'm in this telegram group full of people and there might be like 10 or 15 people coming to hang out what kind of looks like. So yeah, let me ask you, Ben. Let me help you out here. Did you make them an orange pill app by any chance? Wait, what's orange pill app, Daniel?

Well, we'll. Sating app. I was looking for a hot date and I think I found success. I did. And actually this was my reason for being bulleted. Polish last week was OPA. And I was talking about using it in Italy because again, like when especially like I'm, I'm not at Bitcoin conferences right now.

And it's really unique just to like pop into any town anywhere and be like, who's around? And then there's just there's always like a few plebs somewhere relatively close. And and yeah, a bunch of the, you know, a handful of Italian Bitcoiners in Rome, were there. And then you guys probably saw that I ran into Natalie, Natalie while I was at in Amalfi. And her and Sam Callahan were down there.

So we went, myself and Mrs. Sessions and the children, all went and had lunch with them. And I was awesome. And it was funny opening OPA and seeing Natalie Brunel is, you know, five kilometers away. It was pretty awesome. You had no idea you guys were going to be there until like you found. We kind of like I knew and everything, but it was it was funny to like see on the app and then like, you know, we were sharing around screens.

But then all the people that I'm meeting here, I've been kind of messaging on OPA and then they've been like, oh yeah, we've got a, you know, we've got a group that meets up regularly. And so, yeah, I've kind of made some connections that way too. And Lena, actually, when I pulled it up, the second one after Nat was a girl who has a little hodler, and I think you were familiar with who it was. I saw that the little Dutch hoddler girl, yeah. That's so awesome. Yeah, it's super great. So, yeah, I mean, again.

It's a great connector. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, all these unique get-togethers, it's just everybody's got family somewhere now, right? Yeah, it's a great connector. Because also for me, I've been basically traveling for 10 years and just going to new places all the time. Wherever I go, finding the local Bitcoin meetup is one of the easiest ways to meet people. It's an amazing connector.

It's a community, right? Yeah, exactly. It lets you meet people where you've already kind of got at least a base layer of, of similar values and you can kind of almost leapfrog the the small talk phase and get into, you know, like, establish a deeper, deeper connection with somebody a lot quicker than you would just randomly meeting people, which is really cool.

So yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, I think I'm going to do a rotation here again. Again, shout out to everybody in the chat. And keep those messages. just coming. Yeah, we're holding rotations down in Daniel, yeah. I was going like this. Love it, love it. I'm so childish sometimes, sorry. Yeah, that's okay. We're all grown-ups here.

I'm going to toss it to Lena and I'm going to again cue you up with the same question. Why are you bullish? Right. So I have a very spontaneous thing I'd like to share actually, which I wasn't planning for, but now it kind of happened this week. It kind of made my week. I told it to everyone around me, and they were a bit confused, because basically it was one of the first times that using Bitcoin made my life easier,

but I hadn't planned for it, which is, okay, let me explain. So I pay salaries in Bitcoin. I get paid in Bitcoin, and I pay bills in Bitcoin. I make payments with Bitcoin all the time, right? But so I'm a gamer when I'm not a bitcoiner and I have a PlayStation. And I bought that PlayStation.

It was the PlayStation 5 when it was very, very scarce, I got it. I was living in Taiwan. And I actually bought a, that one I'm not proud of. I bought a flat screen because the only way you could get the PlayStation 5 was if you bought a massive TV with it. so I wanted it that badly. So then I bought the flat screen, so I got the PlayStation with it. Anyway, so back then I was living in Taiwan, I bought the PlayStation. I made my account and I was playing my games.

Now, I wanted to buy a new game this week. And I couldn't because there are apparently on the PlayStation account system, there are country restrictions. So I couldn't pay for the new game and I looked at it out. I was like, what am I going to do? I hate country restrictions. It's like I know some games are not available on that store. It's like the Netflix thing, whatever, right?

But it's really annoying. I looked it up, and apparently I had to make a new account, and I couldn't transfer my existing games, and blah, blah. It's a very first world gamer kind of problem, but it really annoyed me. And so I found randomly an online store that sells credits for the Taiwanese PlayStation Store. And I thought, cool, I'm going to buy the credits

and then I'm going to buy my game and then I can keep my account and I have all my games in the same account. I couldn't pay on the online store because my PayPal apparently is also the wrong country. And then, and that's the very long buildup to the actual thing that makes me bullish, I saw on the product page for the credits right below the PayPal option it said,

or quick checkout with Bitcoin. And that was very surprising because I don't see that very often like random online stores. But they actually made it look easy. They said, you know, you can use your PayPal or you like make an account and do this and do this and do that. Or quick checkout. So I did the quick checkout. I scanned a QR code.

It was it was not lightning. It was on chain. But still, after a couple minutes, I did not make an account. I did not give my email. I did not give my name, my billing address, my anything. I did not do anything. refreshed, I got my code and then I got my game and that made me so happy because I had not expected it because that store is called like, well you're not going to use that unless you have

some business with Asia gaming things but it's called Play Asia or someone and that store just made Bitcoin look like the easier option which it was it normalized spending your Bitcoin normalize the Bitcoin payment part. And that made me so happy. It still makes me happy right now, thinking about it. I love that. Again, a lot of people that don't have to do international commerce like that, especially for like small amounts, they don't realize what a pain it is.

And when you can actually deal with like a bearer asset and just like they don't have to worry about fraud. to like, great, we got the money. Here's the product. Like, we don't need to worry about all of that information. We have the money. We can just give you the product and it's just there. That's massive. Again, I love that.

I do wonder if it would be doable in, let's say, Europe. Because if I think about what's required of us in terms of bookkeeping, I haven't done digital delivery of products yet. We're going to do it at some point. but I wonder if that would be allowed or if that is a freedom you can enjoy in Taiwan or in other countries that are not under the European umbrella. I'm about to buy the Nintendo e-shop card for 5,000 yen for Super Mario compatible with Nintendo Switch and it says ads a cart, PayPal or quick checkout, pay with Bitcoin

and when you click on that, it says Express Payment by Bitcoin. no account email no further verification required only bitcoin accepted so and i'm in europe so maybe it's possible i mean that this is for the those credits you're talking about i didn't look at a specific game and yeah it comes up with base chain but that's cool and that is way faster and as you say no no no no no no no detail shared what website is this sorry play asia play minus asia dot com yeah i just bought a playstation store credits so you can buy anything right but i needed the because of the country restrictions, the country specific one. And that's usually a real pain. Are you guys also aware of shopinbit.com? Of course. Yeah, they have some of my products.

They're really cool. Yeah, they are. But I don't know how global there. I think they're pretty global. I mean, I've had Lawrence on the show before and yeah, they've got so much stuff from there. Ben, have you heard of them? That sounds very familiar, actually. Yeah, no, I'm not interested in. Yeah, for the guys in the chat, if they haven't heard of it, shopinbit.com. And you just literally search whatever you want. And they'll, if they don't have it already, they'll source it for you and you can pay on Bitcoin. If you're living on a Bitcoin standard, this is the way for you to make it happen.

And they also have a tracking, excuse me, a concierge service and a travel hacking service as well, which you can get help with, you know, you're traveling. if you want to pay your air tickets in Bitcoin rather than, you know, fee it with the... They're really cool. They do market themselves as the biggest in Europe, but then I would think because we use the same warehouse, or at least partially we use the same warehouse,

so I do think that they would ship internationally. Interesting. This is cool. I'm just seeing this on the website here. Isn't that cool, right? That's so cool. That is so cool. and specific and random.

And I didn't even think I would find a way to cheat the country restrictions by PlayStation, let alone with Bitcoin. This kind of ties it together. But did you see that, speaking of having it be a pain to pay for things or donate to things or whatever and jumping back to the earlier cell phone discussion and graphene and all that?

Did you see that graphene, the, the, the, the, the, the, the OS, the developers were previously getting donations via PayPal. And then when they finally hooked up a bank account to start with drawing some of the like 4,000 Canadian dollars worth of donations they've gotten, they immediately got their PayPal account shut down and restricted. And so now they're like, everybody's like, geez, you should probably accept Bitcoin. They already do. They don't have lightning yet.

But now I think they're looking into setting up. they want to do it themselves. They want to have their own lightning notes. So anyways, they're now looking into that. Yeah. Absolutely. PayPal is pretty bitter.

I think if they restrict your, shut you down, it gets very hard to get your money back, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good old centralized entity is holding your money. Yeah.

No, that's super awesome, though. And again, like, it's getting to the point where it is, is quite easy, especially for digital items, to find ways to pay for it with Bitcoin. Like, you know, there's so many different gift card sites and stuff like that, too, where you can kind of bridge that gap, you know, things like Bit refill and the Bitcoin company and coin cards and all that kind of stuff. You can pretty much get most things that you need through sites like that if they, if you can't pay directly in Bitcoin. And yeah, I'm sure there's going to be more

instances of that as well. Yeah, there's Bit Shop, which I confused with Shop in Bit, but I met like the co-founder of that at the Plan B, Lagano Summer School. And I can't tell that, I think they're kind of the same thing in a way. Like, Shop in Bit is just trying to be like Amazon, but for Bitcoin. Is that fair to say? And I think Bit Shop is trying to do a similar thing. So what do you do if you can't find the product on the website?

How do I get it listed? Shop and Bit? Yeah. You DM him. slash me. Yeah, they'll sort it for you and use their fear

to buy it and ship it to you but accept Bitcoin from you. Oh, nice, okay. The way I understand it. Okay. I've got all kinds of stuff. Wow. Don't get in that weird

underwear section, Ben. You don't want to go. I saw it at the top. They know who they're marketing to. Yeah. His sales, he was at the Germany conference to his sales pitch on site was literally,

we have everything from condoms to underwear. That's not a very big spread of things. Yeah, that's a pretty niche market right there. We have tissues and handkerchiefs and everything in between. Amazing. Awesome. All right. Well, for everybody in the chat, again, that website,

shopinbit.com. And you can get your own. underwear and apparently tissues as well. Playasia.com just for gaming stuff, though. It's weird, right? You'd have think it'd be the other way around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

They'd be like Asia, wouldn't it? She doesn't get it, but that's all fine with me. That's good. Don't worry about it. All right, I'm going to do one more rotation here. I'm going to toss it over to Joe. And again, Joe, I'm going to queue you up again. here and ask why are you bullish take it away thanks ben i'm rotated and i'm ready um initially i

was going to talk about the nigel farage debanking case and get all political and you know that sort of thing but to be honest he said nothing about bitcoin throughout the whole thing and i thought i'd make it more personal about me and last night as i was thinking oh crap i'm on why are we bullish tomorrow what i'm going to say and i was about to log off from my computer and someone had randomly tagged me in something and as you guys know and as you guys do as well, we tweet quite a lot and oftentimes you forget about those tweets that you've written. How many tweets do you do a day, Prince, C? What, like, yeah, hundreds.

But yeah, and so you forget about what you've tweeted a lot of the time, but sometimes, you know, you use these tweets as a way to, you know, understand something better or, because it's just an amazing feedback, because there's so many Bitcoiners on Twitter. Of course you can do that with Noster as well, and obviously big shout out to Noster, but I still haven't worked out how to, you know, reach more people

with the content you've got, because you want that diversity of opinion on certain things as well. Anyway, in November of last year, I tweeted, you know, is there a Bitcoin community in Mexico? Because actually, I was looking to go on holiday in Mexico with my girlfriend, and whenever I go to a new place, I want

to meet Bitcoiners, and I want to see if there's now a Bitcoin community. Anyway, there was loads of responses to that tweet, and they were ranging from, you know, NFT-Shill communities to like crypto and freedom communities to like all the stuff going on, Tallum, which is Tulum is like very NFTE heavy. When was this, Joe? This was like November of last year. Just as Orange Pillab was launching just a launch, you know.

Exactly. And, yeah, so. That bit might come. through at some point. But anyway, yeah, I get tags in his tweet last night and I was like, Soda, okay, opened the link with it and it was this really quite nicely edited video about this

region in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico, which is the bit which is like closest to the Caribbean. And it started off with like, you know, tropical paradise scenes and like nice upbeat tropical music and then it fades this guy in a car who's like driving along saying, well, to be honestly, the reason why I started this Bitcoin

community was because I was embarrassed because of this guy called Joe Nakamoto from Coin Telegram. had, you know, tweeted about this thing. And I, like, fell off my chair being like, why the hell am I in this video? I was really knackered from a long day of work. And to see yourself in someone else's video on YouTube for a tweet that you made six months ago, which you thought would lead to nothing. And that was the impetus.

I mean, the co-founder, I forgot on her name, she texted me this morning saying, yeah, you were the rocket under our arses that got us into gear. And it just made me realize that, wow, this, you know, this Bitcoin community is, is connected in ways that we don't even realize or understand. And the consequences of your actions right now, without getting too megalomaniac about this, like, come on, you know,

we've got to stay humble and stack sats. But the fact that a tweet six months ago led to the creation of the first proper, like Mexican Bitcoin community, because they were like, well, we're a shame that there isn't one in Mexico, so we're going to do it.

And then they, you know, alluded to that in the video. It made me very, very happy. And I was like, I did a thing, like immediately texted, like Sophie and my girlfriend. We're like, watch this video.

I fucking did something. But it makes you realize that, you know, these tiny actions that we think are insignificant can have really profound consequences, particularly with this lower time preference, and particularly down the line, and can also make the people that are doing those things very happy. So, you know, I was just delighted to see that,

and I thought, wow, this Bitcoin thing is so much bigger than just, like, us on this call right now. And obviously, Ben's work has touched people's lives in amazing ways, and they're now probably holding their kids. and not, you know, leaving their Bitcoin exchanges. Lena has Orange Pilt, I don't know how many kids and families and has been like sort of a softer approach to the Bitcoin space.

And then obviously Daniel's work is extending into like the unschooling space, into the, you know, work and travel space. And, you know, these are reaching out into places that maybe 10 years ago, those Bitcoiners wouldn't be reaching because it was a lot more sort of homogenous. And it was just more, you know, cyphopunkey or hobbyist. And now we're covering all these sort of things. and these consequences are much more far-reaching. So, yeah, that is why I'm bullish.

Good job. I just want to say, you said Lena and Daniel and my dad, I thought you forgot. Oh, shit. No. Oh, there are you. And Lauren is keeping us all in check. There you go.

Be bullish on Bitcoin kids. Yeah, she's making you humble, Joe. No, I've just got to ignore Lauren. because she's going to take my job in about two weeks time. Well, that's okay, Lauren. I already did this earlier, but just for Lauren, we'll say goodbye to you. What's the second time. Yeah, that's the second time that happened to you today.

Think about it. It's third striking them out. I just never allowed back on. But yeah, you get one more. It's great. And it ties into what I was saying as well. Like, you never know who you're inspiring, right? It doesn't matter what it is that you do.

You have no clue. where that's going to land or when, you know, like Ben, your shows, they're still landing. They're going to be landing in 10 years time. That's huge. And your book, Lena, you know, that you'll never know who will pick that up and change someone's life. And these little touch points are so important. And, you know, I see a lot of plebs sometimes on Twitter saying, right, I'm done with

orange pillen. I'm giving up. This is fucking too hard. I can't be told I'm an idiot again. It's like, you're never going to deliver that perfect orange. pill there's no such thing but the touch points are so important and having these touch points just come and be like prevalent in what we do um you know i i think we are the biggest threat to bitcoin you know if we rest on our laurels and don't keep pushing the message and don't keep

educating other people and other communities then yeah we have no chance because we're the only ones It's just the PLEBS. We're the only ones doing it. So yeah, it's great that that little story, Joe, is, yeah, that's amazing. Well done. Thank you. Yeah. That ties into what, you know, Jack Dorsey said when he was asked on Jack Muller's

podcast, you know, what is the biggest threat to Bitcoin? And he was like, I think it was the word irrelevance, right? Just the fact that we just go on about our lives and just sort of forget about this Bitcoin thing. And that's also probably what most spooks me about, you know, mass adoption. is that like what happens if we do just lose our passion for this thing and just be like well you know nihilism takes over and we go back to our fiat jobs or whatever and you know we lose this sense of hope for a better future a better future for like our kids or for you know just

humanity as a whole and yeah through having these little nice inspirational moments you're like oh i'm doing a good thing and it gives you that resilience to then bounce back from the next one as And look what's what's the what shifts on name? Spencer. Now he's doing a 180 on Bitcoin. It's like don't believe him, guys. He's trying to steal your Bitcoin. Like any college-aged kids out there that are listening to this right now.

If you started following that guy because he was such so bullish on Bitcoin and now all of a sudden he's you turned, like Bitcoin does that, right? It shines a torch on your soul. and it will elevate the morally sound and ethical people and expose the charlatans. And he just exposed himself this week because you do not want 80 on U-turn if you truly understand what it is and what it can do for humanity. You will want 80 on it if you've got burned or you're trying to manipulate other people. And yeah, sad to see, truly sad to see.

I cannot imagine ever being so nihilistic that you would want to leave Bitcoin. and it would become irrelevant because that would assume it does not have a use. I can understand that you would feel that way about Bitcoin Twitter, for example, because that can get very stressful. I'm not going to lie. But even if, you know, let's say you're like tired of all that. You're tired of the bitcoins for whatever reason. Then still, it is so much easier to send Bitcoin to another country than to send a wire transfer.

you don't get nihilistic about something that has an objective use case, which is just one of the, sorry, just one of the objective use cases that it has. So, yeah. But I get your point. I get your point. But that's not something I'd be worried about. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that, yeah, I can understand some people maybe getting burnt out if they're shoving themselves into unnecessary confrontation and stuff. like that 100% of the time. But like you don't you don't have to do that right. Like you can you can just do the things that you're passionate about and share it with people and learn and build your communities and and have fun conversations like this. And and part of it too is like for myself, I would say that I'm not I'm not the person typically that goes. and like orange pills somebody out of the blue that is random.

I typically get them further down the funnel. Like the people like Joe that are out in the street getting people to try Bitcoin for the first time. And Daniel, that's orange-pilling is Uber driver and all these things. That was said with such admiration. I love it. But like it's like I've kind of recognized. I think, you know, my place is like the after the initial. And that's also what I'm passionate about.

And I think people can can get into aspects of Bitcoin that maybe don't call in them. So like recognize your your skill set and where you're at. and then hone that and then you will remain passionate. And I think it's just, you know, if something isn't making you excited and but you're still excited about Bitcoin, then find what aspect of Bitcoin you can focus on and build there. And that will, that will ensure that you don't become, you know, a Spencer, right? And Spencer. Yeah.

And Spencer, that whole thing, I didn't even understand its reasoning. He was basically saying that like AI is going to give such productivity boost that will basically be able to forever just print money and it'll just be fine because we'll become so productive. But what he's ignoring is the cantalon effect or the cantion effect. He's ignoring that all that new printed money isn't going to be just distributed to everybody. it's going to be like the wealth gap in that scenario the wealth gap explodes like we've never seen if we can just if we're becoming incredibly productive the blue collar worker doesn't benefit from that whatsoever they print trillions and trillions and eventually quintillions you know uh quadrillions and quintillions

and whatever it becomes and until it's just totally worthless and sure the people that own the hard assets will become massively wealthy. But your standard of living will not increase nearly as much as those that are next to the money spigot as it spews out the trillions that are coming. So I think his, his assertation that just like we're going to become more productive. And so now the money being broken doesn't matter is completely. completely backwards. If we become, if society as a whole becomes massively more productive and the money isn't fixed, that's, that's horrible. That's a horrible outcome because that wage gap or that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the wealth inequality is going to grow just massively from that. Yeah. Yeah. It's also just the ramblings of a stone 20 year old, right? Yes.

I was going to ask, how old is he? He's like 20, and, you know, he doesn't seem that bright anyway. Like, I hope he doesn't mind me saying that. But, you know, if he's look at his content in general, he doesn't sort of scream intellectual, sort of, like, depth. And then he starts talking about something he doesn't really know about, and he's got this one idea. And you're like, you know, it takes a few tweets. You're like, who's this guy? Also, why is he on a pedestal?

And is it just because he's Peter Schiff's son? Yeah. Does he do anything with his life? No, that was it. Because he came out talking about being bullish about Bitcoin and, like, don't on his dad and that's why he got so he was elevated because he dunked on peter shift but everyone dunks on peter shift just because your son doesn't make it any better yeah like just place a little bit don't like my quarter ever dunks on me you know yeah exactly what i feel like it plays a little bit

into the um the digital footprint thing right i don't want to be ages or anything right but at 20 if that's how old he is there like there's a good chance i've five years later, he's going to look back and be like, oh, I wish I hadn't tweeted this. I wish I hadn't said that. But then he's in the spotlight. He's in the public and he has a public account right now. And that's his digital footprint. And, you know, who knows if he's going to flip again and who knows why he's doing things that he's doing?

And who knows what influences are, like, affecting him. Right. So I wouldn't really care too much about it. That's why I don't even give attention to stuff like that. Because it doesn't benefit anyone. Doesn't benefit him. It doesn't benefit anyone who's spending time with that stuff. It's just, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So what I'd like to do here as we kind of, we're going to start rounding out a little bit here shortly. But at the end of the show, I always like to do a quick round of kind of any final thoughts that maybe you didn't get to that you'd like to touch on or just reiterate. anything like that.

And then I also like to ask the guests to give a recommendation. And when I be my recommendation is it can literally be anything that you think is worth checking out that you think will benefit the people watching. So it could be something like a book or a podcast or a piece of news or it could be an app or a device or just like a piece of advice that you found valuable that has helped you in your Bitcoin journey or like a tangential topic to Bitcoin that may be helpful. So I'll start and give you guys a second to think and then I'll toss it around and you guys can do that.

I'll say final thoughts wise. Sorry, am I cutting out? No, no. Were you going to say something as me, Lina? Do you have a call coming up? Oh, no, I just, I'm very, I'm very, my hand because I have something like oh okay perfect okay awesome awesome we'll do we'll do a quick round then so I'll keep mine simple the whole theme of the show to me is is very much is is very much

community driven and and and that's kind of the vibe that I'm getting this from this and so I think community is very important whether you're building stuff or whether you're forging connections and linking up with people and finding a place to fit into the Bitcoin space. And kind of on Joe's topic, I will say those people that take the initiative to start those communities where there are none or where they just haven't been established yet and you haven't linked up yet, you are building something in doing that. And so as a call to action to everybody, if there's not a local media, up where you are, start one. There are people that will be happy that you did. And then you can get to

maybe building out local circular economies, learning what other people do. And at very least, you come out of it with some incredible friends. So look in your local community, see if there is one. And if not, start reaching out, start figuring it out. And hey, OPA can help you find some local bit corners in your area and maybe start it off. So I'll leave that there. in terms of recommendations, that that's my recommendation. Go start a meetup or find your local one. Joe, I know you're on a timeline here. So I'm going to toss it to you.

Final thoughts, recommendations. Go ahead. This is kind of a piece of advice to me today as well. But firstly, it was just lovely to see everyone. I'm really sorry I've got to jump off, but I've got a call and another call and another call. And it's a Friday afternoon and I'm like, why am I doing this? you know, if this was me five years ago, I'd be like, sod that, I'm going to the beach or whatever,

or I'm going to go, you know, go to the pub. But usually I give really like soft advice, but this week I'm going to go hard and say, like, show up. Like, I know it's really hard and we're in like the depth of the bear market and it feels like it's been going on for ages. But show up not just for the people you're working with or for your community or whatever it might be, but show up for yourself because it's only through, you know, constantly, you know, proving to yourself that you can do something that it becomes a habit.

it and then sometimes it might even become a hobby or a passion from that. And, you know, like I had one of those weeks this week where it felt it just wouldn't end. And I kept on to tell myself, just do it. Just show up, just, you know, getting itself in that mental model to get through it. And I think that while you might not realize it at the time, you know, ties into what I was saying earlier. There's little actions. The cumulative sort of collection of all those actions does have these really positive, wonderful consequences down the road. So, you know, show up, keep going and yeah, do that proof of work.

I know it seems really hard sometimes and life is hard sometimes, but it's worth it in the end. I promise, guaranteed. Love it. Joe, thank you so much. I know you got to run, but it was a pleasure having you here. And thank you so much, everyone. Stack, Sat, and I love to see one in the chat as well. I'm going to go grab a really quick drink from when it's cool. You can eject yourself early from the show yet again.

There's three. get out of here. He's gone. I cut him. He's out. Thanks, Joe. Bye. All right.

A couple more, and we'll round it out. I just wanted to bring up one thing from the chat. Recommendations. My friend Dave said, I recommend smashing a world coin orb like cryptograffiti, which side note was a hilarious video. So yellow, yellow apparently approves.

Anyways, I want to toss it to Daniel and Lauren, and then we'll go to Lina afterwards. Okay, so Daniel, Lauren, take it away, final thoughts, recommendations, whatever you have. Yeah, just to build on what Joe was saying there, you know, and what you said, you're called to action, starting a meetup or get into one, you know. Lauren and I, we drove to Andorra. It was five and a half hours. We did it once one shot. We got there. We found some Bitcoiners to stay with with Tebow and Omp.

And we went and chilled out and we did the meetup with them. And then came back. But now, yeah, you've kind of shining the spotlight on me. I should start one in my local town. And just see who's, yeah, you never know. No one's going to try. You never know, no. Well, if you come, that's two people.

And, yeah, like Cedor. Cedor. Cidor, this Chris over at Cedore says two people are a Bitcoin meetup. Start there and build on it. And a lot of people are probably stuck with getting that motivation to do it. But like Joe was saying, we get this kind of this loop back to front. We think motivated people are motivated because they're all hyped up and doing the self-development and all this kind of. That's nonsense.

It's action breeds motivation, which breeds more action. So if you go act, then that will breed that motivation. and you will be able to keep building. And if you do meet just one player, God knows where, how far away, it doesn't matter, you will start conspiring together on some kind of project. There's no doubt I've seen it happen a hundred times and I really love watching all of that come together.

And just a few more things, final thoughts. On this call today, we had three representatives of Relay, which are the kind of the Swan equivalent of the US. Ben, whilst you're here on our shores, you're going to have to do some kind of video, you know, tutorial of how to download and use relay. So the plebs out there that can I just do that? Do I have access to it? I have no idea.

Oh, no, there you go. You're going to have to teach yourself. They can get in touch with you. But also on this call, we're three representatives of Orange Pill app because myself, Joe, and Ben are part of the advice. report there after Mateo invited us and the three of us want to know why is Lena not on orange pill app her hodler is I have no excuse I have a Twitter from whoever runs the orange pill app Twitter they asked me Brian Dement or Mattieu. Brian Demand or Mattio. I think Brian

actually because you did you message me two days ago yeah what happened i said i will add it to my to do list amazing well you you should and then and then uh your profile picture can just be a little hoddler you should just have a a mystery little hodler traveling i would just make 100 accounts with like all different little hodlers populated all over the world amazing i love it um awesome daniel I don't know if that was your last thing or if you had anything before you wanted me to toss it to Lauren. Yeah. One last thing I would say, and it ties in with what Lena's doing in Prague.

It was a great conference, Ben. You gave an outstanding keynote there. But it was amazing to see the amount of families and kids turning up to these events. and you know that that's a big ask to all conferences out there make what Prague did they had the exhibition hall separate and they even had a little stage there as well but it was nine euros on the day to turn up or you could pre-book those nine euro tickets this is how we get more families and more kids and more wives and girlfriends or significant others to the bitcoin conferences because otherwise they're so inhibitively expensive for people to bring their families

and plebs are really struggling to bring their families on board with them. And this is one of the biggest problems. If you are the one orange-pilled person in your family, it's lonely enough that your friends don't want to listen. But if your wife, your husband, your daughter or your son just thinks you're absolutely crazy, getting them to a conference and making that available for them to come and see that this is a real thing,

this is a real movement. And these people are the absolutely most amazing people you've ever met in your lives. Please make that happen. That is a real shield. There's going to be a conference in Madeira at the start of March. So look out for that one. That's going to get announced very soon.

Hopefully the tickets are going to be priced. There's going to be very, very low-priced tickets for families to get in the exhibition centre. I know a lot of people have to travel there as well. So look into that. And big shout out to Sam and Ben DeValle, who were also at Prague. and Sam, she got up on stage. She gave a keynote, 13 years of age. Lauren was on stage.

She was 12. Lauren was on stage and she was interviewing German Giacomo. I just had Gen Z for BTC. He's a 14-year-old kid. He came to Miami, but now he wants to get on stage at Pacific Bitcoin and start talking about Bitcoin. We've got to really make a push to get this happening and get the kids more involved.

And that's where I'll leave it. And, you know, over to Lena. And she does a great job with her books and the plushies. What's your favorite plushies? What? The little hoddler person, yeah. Bitcoin Jesus, you name it. Yeah, so basically we had friends over.

So it's the king because we got that for free. How the beard. But we called it, yeah, we had some friends over and they were like, oh my gosh, this is Jesus. And there was like the Bitcoin thing on it. So they're like Bitcoin Jesus. Yeah. Four kids.

Never heard about Bitcoin before running around with this thing. They all wanted it. They all like, yeah. And they're all calling it Bitcoin Jesus. Touch points. You never know. The problem is I think we became a cult. You wish I were a cult.

Right guy. It's a fun cult. Lena, anything to say about that? That's a cult thing? You can do your final thoughts and recommendations as well. I think you guys covered my final thoughts. But, well, maybe a personal thing. Because I think Joe mentioned it earlier to you.

It can get pretty difficult in a bear market. It can get pretty hard to stay on the ball. Because you lose a lot of people in the bear market. And for us working in the space, I think it can also be hard because you feel like, you know, oh, there's where's all the growth going? you know where's all the engagement going where's all this going but it's it's good to sometimes remind yourself what you're doing um why you're doing it who you're doing it with and that's the that's the event part the meetup part the chatting with people part that reminds you that you know

there's actually a lot of people here still and um most people who use bitcoin probably they don't they don't even use Twitter or social media whatever they just use it and you just got to kind of remind yourself of that. For me, and that's probably because I'm in a creative job, it can get some, what I found recently is very good for my inspiration is to take a step back and see, you know, how far have we come, how has my view of things changed? So I actually went back recently and I started reading some things, reading up on some things, because, for example, I'm really interested in history, everything historical. I'm so, like, I'm very, really interested in it. I started reading a book. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It's a book

about the Silk Roads. Not that one. The actual, the historical Silk Road, Silk Roads. And it was a very interesting book that would have never spoken to me before because it shows a view of our history from, like, I think it starts 600 BC until now. That is not completely different, but has a completely different focus than what we are taught in school in the EU, for example, because it shows a focus on the Eastern history and on, you know, Persia and China and, you know, the roles they played and how the Roman Empire was like looking towards the East and not necessarily the West in the beginning. And that's just one example where I realize my way of viewing things has changed, my way of processing information has changed because of Bitcoin.

I can view things. I can learn things differently because I have learned to verify. I have learned to ask questions. And that actually taken a step back, going out of Bitcoin Twitter, going into something else, looking at it like a Bitcoiner, that gave me a lot of confidence, a lot of inspiration. I don't know if that's weird or if that is related. at all. But that gave me a huge boost in previous weeks that I cannot even, I cannot

even properly explain it. But it does a lot. It does a lot to realize how far you've come mentally speaking as, as a bit coiner to remind you, to remind yourself why you're a bitcoiner. That's it. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, It's always a good thing to, again, go and consume ideas and topics outside of the Bitcoin sphere. And it is cool to kind of see that shift of, oh, wow, I would have thought about this entirely differently, you know, a few short years ago. And I've definitely noticed that of myself as well. So great point. I agree.

So go read about a topic that's not Bitcoin related. engage yourself and see how you've grown. Love it. Awesome. All right. Well, God. Yes, yes, exactly. Well, I'm going to wrap it here. This is a lot of fun. Again, all the people in the chat, thank you for being here, of course. And I want to say to Lena, to Daniel, to Lauren,

and to Joe, well, not as much to Joe, but a little bit to Joe. Thank you for being here. And you're all welcome back anytime. So have a great day, you guys. Thank you, too. Thank you so much. All right. I'll see you guys later.

Awesome. Everybody watching, thank you so much for being here as well. Everybody in the chat, appreciate you guys coming back every week and providing color commentary in the side there. If you're here watching in Europe and because we're doing. in different time zones. I've got a few more weeks of doing it at this time before I get back to Canada and start doing it back in my normal time.

But yeah, every Friday right now at 4 p.m. Central European standard, whatever it is, in Rome. Rome time, whatever it is, C-E-S-T, 4-P-M every week on Friday for the next few weeks. Anyways, guys, thank you so much for being here. Of course, Before we log off, make sure you do like, subscribe, share, all those things. They help a ton. If you want to help the show in another way, you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors in these show notes.

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