BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Denver Bitcoin, CryptoMags, Lord Fusitua, Jim Crider ep203

Episode Date: September 26, 2021

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Wasabi wallet and fairly private. Welcome, welcome, everybody. Hope you're having a good week, a good Friday. Apologies were a few minutes late getting started here. I decided last minute I want a beverage for this one. So I made myself a smoked old-fashioned with Wayne Gretzky whiskey, by the way, just so you know. Very excited about this panel here today. It's going to be a banger.

I've got some returning guests and I've got an awesome first time guest as well. And yeah, we're just going to get it rolling. As always, of course. This is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my good friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay.

We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. Now, if you haven't already, make sure you hit like, subscribe, share all of those good things, it really helps get this content in front of more eyeballs. And as always, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, of course, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. I'm pulling up the bitbo.io dashboard.

And you can see the moment that giant China banned Bitcoin for the umpteenth time, everybody for some reason was very scared about that again and again and again. So we've dipped down since, but we're sitting at $42,892 bouncing off that kind of, where do we hit? We went down to like 41. But I mean, how many times are they going to ban this thing? Come on, guys. Like, who's selling Bitcoin on this news for the, again, the first time, just to put this in context, by the way. The first time that China banned Bitcoin was in 2013, and Bitcoin's price has 40xed since that first time.

And they've done it multiple times since then. So, you know, get your shit together. Guys, let's relax a little bit here. Anyways, where are we sitting? Oh, yeah, a single US dollar will grab you 2,331 sats. 89.64% of all Bitcoin has been mined. And in terms of fees, five sats per byte will get you into the next block. And if you're willing to wait anything longer than 30 minutes, one sat per byte will do you.

So yeah, get some lightning channels open. It's been a fantastic time for getting your lightning node going, you know, getting stuff into cold storage, doing some coin join, all that kind of stuff. Good time for it. And also, shout out to sponsors to the show, ledden.com. You can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different things. namely, if you're in a pension, you need dollars, and you don't want to sell your Bitcoin because that's a taxable event, and you're worried about having a buyback and at higher price.

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And with that, enough of my rambling. Let's get our guests in here. We've got Mr. Jim Crider. We've got Adam, aka Denver Bitcoin. And we've got Mags here altogether. And we will hopefully have another edition momentarily, Lord Fasitua from the island nation of Tonga is trying to make his way in here. And yeah, hopefully he can join.

If not, I'm sure we'll see him soon, sooner rather than later. But regardless, welcome all. Let's do a round of intros and get you guys going here. So let's start with Jim. You are a first-time guest. Can you let people know who you are and what you do? Yeah, my name's Jim Kreider. My Twitter handles Jim Crider TX.

As that implies, I live in Texas. right between San Antonio and Austin. I own a financial planning firm. It's called Intentional Living FP. I help young families achieve early financial independence. So my financial planning firm, we do integrate Bitcoin. Pretty much all my clients have 10 to 20 percent of their total portfolio allocated in Bitcoin and Bitcoin-related companies, looking at, you know, asset location strategies for that and all that fun stuff. So that's what I do. I love these conversations and definitely try to bring Bitcoin. to Wall Street and to the financial planning conversations, which is difficult, but very fulfilling.

Awesome, dude. I am glad to have you and also excited to hear what you had to say on your reason for being bullish this week. Let's move down the line. Meg's returning guest. Your room is looking much more together than last time. You seem to have settled into the new office. Let people know who you are and what you do. Yeah. So I'm currently in the mining space, co-founded a company working with. with Hut eight co-founders were entering the mining space, just like, wait, no, this guy. Mining is a place to be, but other than that, I've worked on Bitcoin funds, putting them on Toronto Stock Exchange. And before that, I worked in energy markets and heavy industry, so like steel cement, helping them stay competitive in Canada.

Awesome. Well, I'm very happy to have you back, and I'm sure it won't be the last time. And let's jump down the line one more time. Adam, uh, Multiple returning guests. You've been here many times. Let people know who are unfamiliar who you are and what you do. Yeah. My name's Adam. I'm on Twitter.

I'm Denver Bitcoin. And I'm the business development manager for a company called Upstream Data. And what we do is we build portable Bitcoin mines for oil and gas producers primarily, who are looking to leverage mining Bitcoin with their wasted hydrocarbons. And so pretty much day to day, I'm just educating oil and gas producers about this new magic internet money technology and how they're really appropriately positioned to participate and compete in the network. And so, you know, I guess that's what brings me. I will say it's, it's funny. I think BTC sessions, I think this was the first any kind of like video conversation

I had at all about Bitcoin was this conversation. So glad to be back and always always happy to talk with you, man. Awesome. I'm glad to have you. And speaking of being glad to have people, Lord Fisitua has made it. How are you doing? How are you doing, man? Welcome. Good, man. Sorry about being like the physio had me a little bit longer today than usual. Dude, you're doing, why are we bullish from a hospital bed? There's no need for apologies. That's great. I'm glad to have you.

Maybe you can let everybody watching, if they're unfamiliar, let them know who you are. Yep. No worries. My name's Lord Fusitour. I'm a member of parliament from the kingdom of Tonga. I'm a barrister by profession, but I'm now a politician by Korea. I am working, hopefully, towards getting a commercial solution

and having the Bitcoin Lightning Network being used, the payment rails in Tonga, as they are in El Salvador, to allow us to escape the hegemony of the Western Union and the remittance industry, and hopefully work towards adoption and, yeah, to follow pretty much the playbook that Naubuqueles put forth. So we're gradually edging towards it.

I'm pretty sure that's why you asked me on today, Ben, is to share a bit about our first node that we finally got, which we're hopefully going to route some liquidity through towards Tonga as an alternative for our diaspora rather than using Western Union. So it's great to be here. Yeah, so as with most, politicians, I probably am going to talk more than I should. So you tell me when you need me to.

I'm going to have to find out your, once you get it set up, I'm going to have to find out your, once you get it set up, I'm going to have to find out your note address so I can open up a lightning channel with the nation of Tonga. That would be, that would be awesome. Great. Well, I think we are set and ready to go. Anybody watching that is unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish? And the premise of the show is exactly that.

We tell you why we're bullish this week in particular. And so the way it works, we go by the three R's. Number one, somebody's going to give a reason why they're bullish. Number two, we're going to riff on that reason altogether. And number three, we're going to rotate to the next person. Super simple. And I can already see in the chat, by the way, people that are in the chat, welcome. I will be pulling up some of your comments as we get talking here.

And of course, like, share all of this stuff. Let's get more people in the room. And I already see people in the chat saying that they want to connect with Tonga's node when it's sober and running. So that's exciting. So I'm going to kick this off. I'm going to chat about why I'm bullish this week. And so my reason has a bit of show and tell involved. So I've got all this stuff on my desk beside me.

A lot of cool stuff. I've got a keystone sitting here. I've got like a couple treasers sitting here. I've got a ledger sitting here. I've got a bitbox sitting here. I've got a cold card. I've got a block stream jade. I've got a foundation passport.

We've got all this stuff sitting here. And then I've got something new on my desk that's sitting here that I'm kind of excited about. It's still in parts and it's going to be hard to see. But there's the case of it. And this is called a seed signer. And so what this is is build your own hardware wallet with your own parts that you can order, just like a Raspberry Pi Zero and a little pie camera and a little LED screen and some buttons and stuff. Flash and verify the software yourself and build it.

And again, create your own hardware wallet from parts. And so the reason why I'm bullish here is because there are so many amazing tools that are coming, that are already here and continue to come down the pipeline for Bitcoiners to have various levels of self-sovereignty in managing and using Bitcoin. And so, you know, like there's there's just so many options here for people to use. and not even just on the hardware wallet front. Seed signer just had me fired up because it's something new to play with and it's unique in that you're literally building it yourself.

But even like Lorfacitua, you were talking about building Tonga's first Bitcoin node and lightning node. And, you know, I've got my node on my shelf. Oh, I switch sides. It's over there. I've got my lightning nodes sitting behind me. And it's literally just a self-sovereignty unit. For, you know, for cheap parts that I got off Amazon, but like a little raspberry pie and an SD card and, uh, uh, and, and like a, a little hard drive. And it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's humming away. It's got a full copy of the Bitcoin blockchain. I'm verifying all my transactions. I can connect on my wallets to it. I can route liquidity through the lightning network and become a part of that liquidity pool to the entire globe. Um, there's, um, there's, just so much that people can dive into in so many levels, so many incredible tools is kind

of my focus. The tools that are available to BitConners just never cease to amaze me. So I'm just bullish on more or less tools, but that's just another word for cool shit to play with. So I'm going to put it to the panel here. you know, what are you feeling about this proliferation of new incredible tools, whether it be apps or actual physical hardware or whatever's out there? Are you getting excited about what's happening here? Are you using a lot of new stuff?

Are you tinkering? So I'll just open it up. Whoever wants to dive in. Just one quick comment. It's like it's never been easier to do like the trifecta of Bitcoin self-sovereignty. you know, ren, you know, self-custody and mine. Yeah, Denver, you were getting at him. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, one thing that comes to mind,

and I think the seed signer is really cool, right? I think that's one of the, it's always been one of the points of contention when it comes to, you know, taking sovereign custody of your Bitcoin and storing it on one of these hardware devices is, you know, who's producing these hardware devices, who's verifying that process, you know, what's the QC look like on that? is the open source, those kinds of things. And SeedSigner just really went straight to, you know, the end of the spectrum and said,

hey, listen, like, you know, build it from scratch with pretty standardized hardware parts that are easily, you know, easily sourced and affordable. I think it's awesome. I think that we're all kind of, I feel like the industry is kind of getting there as a whole, right? At upstream data, I don't know if you've seen with Steve Barber, what my boss has just released, you know, the whole mining box, right? We're just about to release this, you know, it's really just a,

a mini data center for us, you know, one or two, maybe three ASICs that dampens the sound, allows you to control where the heat goes. And really, it's just like, if you don't want to do it yourself, we're going to sell it. But what we did instead was we open sourced, you know, the design for anybody that does want to use our design to do it themselves. So they could, you know, take our design and go build it out of wood. So that's a lot cheaper than whatever we fabricated out of, right? So, you know, I think that there's this kind of push in the industry for, for people to to take sovereign ownership over their own tools. And man,

it's right on the cusp of it's the top of the first inning here, very beginning, but it's still a lot of fun to participate, right? I got to get my hands on one of those. We'll have to talk because I feel like I need to maybe do a tutorial on something like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you got to see some of the videos Steve's posted recently.

I mean, we cut the, I mean, because, you know, these A6s are on 75, 80 decibels, you know,

within four or five feet. of their production. And we cut that down like below 40 right there at the box. And so like honestly, it's, it's as quiet as an air conditioning unit and we built it to be all weather. So you could set it outside your house like, you know,

I mean, if there's under an awning, that'd be better, I guess, but you could even put it under your deck. And then, you know, just a way to help people make it easy. They could do it at their house.

And, you know, you're still going to have to call an electrician, make sure that, you know, you've got the ability to power the thing up or whatever. But at least this is, you know, you got a place to put this thing where your wife's not going to divorce you. So, you know, That would be a key feature for me to consider.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, it's just a matter of fact. Or your husband. Or your husband, of course. Mags is repelling gentlemen one decibel at a time. Yeah. No, that's great. And again, another testament to everybody working so hard to provide all of these incredible tools to Bitcoiners to use.

to use in a variety. And another thing that comes to mind as well is just like connecting to the Bitcoin network. You've got, we've literally got a satellite network now around the globe so that you can link your note up and sync with like block stream satellites. And or you can have a satellite and no internet connection and receive blocks that way. Yeah, it's, it's incredible.

I'm curious, either Jim or Lord Fitzsitu, if you guys are, you know, looking at and using lots of tools that Lord, I'll start with you. As you mentioned, Samson was very generously sent me a complementary unit right to the hospital. So as you'll know, this is a perfect solution for an archipelago nation like us, where a lot of remote islands spread over a large expanse of water. So there's not a lot of connection between the land masses. So Wi-Fi internet access and mobile internet access,

it isn't the case for us fortunately, but could be intermittent. So with the block stream satellite using a mesh network, you can pretty much cover the whole nation using that technology. So yeah, that's paradigm changing for us. And as you said before, the low price of setting up a node now. So my node will be used to channel liquidity through from our diaspora in Sydney, in San Francisco, in Los Angeles, to begin sending remittances home instead of through Western Union, but through my node to begin with, and then more nodes as we expand.

But the fact that a nation state can send liquidity back to itself from its diaspora through $200 worth of Amazon machinery is paradigm changing. It's so cheap, an entire nation can take advantage of just that little box sitting behind you, Ben. Yeah, that's paradigm changing and life changing for us. So definitely pollution on Bitcoin's tools, 100%. That's incredible. I want two things for you. Number one, there's a comment here saying, Lord Fisitua has been helping me get my node going. Super cool and patient guy, happy to see him here. So Mike is super stoked to see here and seems like you've been donating your time to people to help them with nodes, which is a great cause. What occurs with us newbies is we begin to help each other out and learn.

from one another as we get the nodes going so being in Plednets the guys in Plednet I've very generously invited me to run a nation state using lightning section on their wiki to edit for them and and put that out so that's great Alex Bosworth has been walking me through some of the tools so yeah as always awesome community That's awesome. And I have one other thing for you. Because you talked about using a mesh network to cover the entire nation, some people watching may not be familiar with the concept. So effectively, you have a singular node that you can refer to.

And then can you maybe, I don't know, do you want to explain like what a mesh work? Do not need internet access throughout the nation to form a mesh network or which even can be. done over old school telephony via text messaging between mobile services across the islands. And people can get access to the one node and therefore to Bitcoin core, which is broadcast from their satellite with zero internet access from the rest of the nation. So yeah, it's game changing. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

So, I mean, people that are unsure, yeah, basically, you don't need an internet connection. They create their own network of data consisting of the Bitcoin blockchain from a single touchpoint to one of these satellites, which is incredible. I'm going to break it up a little bit just for a second. I got to give a shout to Tim, Tim Kim. I was regaling, Tim. I hope you're not too upset, but I was regaling some of the panel members about the tale of Tim on, on why are we bullish back in the day. My friend, you are welcome back anytime.

I think the first time you made it through about one third and then we're unconscious, but friend, come back on. Let's have a second one. And I'm having to answer your question, Tim, I am having a smoked old fashioned. with Wayne Gretzky whiskey. So, yeah, that's what I'm having. So you'll have to have one for me, Ben. Yes, absolutely.

And sorry, I've kind of interjected here. But Jim, I want to get your take on this too. What kind of tools are you using or your clients using in terms of just accessing Bitcoin and making it easier? Yeah. Well, first off, regarding drink. I think, today is my two-year-old, is his birthday. So I spent the day at the zoo. So I'm just running off of coffee, trying to stay active.

So. I feel you. Yeah, yeah. Regarding tools, I, it's astounding the progress we're seeing, seeing right now as far as access to be able to buy, hold, store, secure, send Bitcoin. I'm a millennial, but unlike most millennials, I'm horrible with tech. and having something that's easy to do is fantastic. I know there's a lot of products out there that maybe get a lot of flack because of,

I don't know, maybe they're not as complex as other things or they can't do everything that everything else can. But just having some on ramp, if you want to orange pill someone, you have to at first introduce them. And sometimes a simple introduction is the best way to go. So my clients, for instance, a lot of my clients just use swan. I'm a big fan. You know, I've helped a lot of people move from other platforms,

won't name names, but platforms that tend to shut down whenever there's any type of price volatility. Who could that be? I have no idea who you're talking about. No, so I've helped just with that integration, moving over to Swan and also strike. Funny enough, I've actually had clients reach out to me and say, man, I've fallen in love with this Jack Muller's guy.

And every time I listen to them, I get more hyped about Bitcoin. And that is amazing feedback to get from, from clients. I'm not telling them these things. So yeah, just the ability to buy easily, securely, and for free is amazing.

And then, yeah, as far as security and the ability to send now, these are all, these are all indications of an early but growing network that has so much backing

from people who are way smarter than I am. And yeah, I'm just so glad to be part of, of this community. that, yeah, that's able to support me, that y'all are way more technically efficient than I am. So I'm able to stand in y'all's shoulders. And yeah, like I said, the way I use this is to reach the masses, people who would not go in Bitcoin. I mean, I do financial planning. So this is not a part of what I do typically or for most firms. So having the access is so great. So that's why I love it.

You know, historically, when I first heard about Bitcoin, it was this mystery thing. And to buy it was a pain and, you know, it was Silk Road and all that stuff. But now it's accessible. So that's why I love this and what that's what has me bullish here. Yeah, that's, it's absolutely. And I mean, it's not typical that a financial planner has to get into, you know, technical conversations. It's not, it's not a regular thing.

But it's becoming such, right? People are going to start asking those questions as, as their default saving mechanism, outside of speculation or, you know, investment in companies becomes a sound money that is natively digital. Those conversations are going to have to be had, I imagine. Oh, certainly. Yeah, we're looking at, you know, if we're not only how are we buying this, but how are we going to securely store it? You know, you wouldn't, I wouldn't advocate for a client to go buy Disney stock and get the actual paper certificates and throw it under their bed. So in that same way, we need to find a way to securely store.

store your Bitcoin. So that's, that's, you know, a place that we, we explore. And there's so many more new options that are popping up that are, you know, accessible across the spectrum, depending on how sovereign you want to be and how, how complicated you feel like making this right now versus, hey, let's, let's just get started. And then we can continue down that rabbit hole as things, as the needs and your, your desires progress. I think that's a good tactic too, because, um, you can really, I mean, everybody's end goal is to get a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a well, an independent sell sovereign Bitcoinser that is, you know, as out there as this sounds to normies out there, you know, basically in a nightmare scenario, resistant to state attack.

That's kind of like the level that Bitcoiners are striving for. And so you can strive for that too early and deter people and, and, ruin the whole proposition or you can take baby steps towards that. And in doing so, maybe you make, maybe you make that ideal self-sovereign Bitcoiner, or maybe you get halfway there or 25% there or 75% there. But whatever you make is better than like zero for overwhelming them on the first step,

I imagine. But anyway, so I'm going to cap it there. I'm going to round out this conversation here. and move on to our next reason for being bullish. Everybody in the chat, again, thank you for being here. Of course, give this a share, smash that like button, everything, and get even more people in the room.

And we're going to move on to our next reason for being bullish. And I'm going to jump to Adam, aka Denver Bitcoin, and get his take. Dude, what has you feeling bullish this week? Yeah, man. Well, definitely I spent the week in Houston. going to the Houston bit devs that Parker Lewis, Unchained Cap, have kind of head up and for the last, you know, so I think it only started maybe six or seven months ago. I mean, I went down to one three months ago and

there was about 65 people, maybe 75 people there. And we'd kind of outgrown this, this bar location that we were, you know, it was a big location, but still we'd outgrown it. It wasn't great sound and stuff. And so we, you know, Unchained Cap went out and found a great venue for us to, to, to host a conversation around Bitcoin and how it intertwines into the Houston industry, right, in Houston area. And really, Houston is the energy capital of the United States, right? And so what I found there was for the last two months, I've been seeing just incredible open-mindedness toward mining Bitcoin in the oil field.

You know, we've been seeing that for a little while, but we're certainly at a point now where every single oil and gas producer is absolutely taking a serious look at mining Bitcoin. They're at least getting, they're putting somebody on the task to get an understanding and come back, see if a pilot project is something that's appropriate. But beyond that, what it's really getting me bullish is the ancillary businesses that are building up around mining Bitcoin in the oil field and really mining Bitcoin away from the grid altogether. Because I've been talking to more and more guys that are looking at providing insurance,

providing financing, providing ways in which for oil and gas producers to more easily enter this game, mitigate their downside, mitigate the maybe the volatility of Bitcoin. maybe the volatility of the Bitcoin miners themselves, right? They're really volatile and scary to purchase. You know, you don't know what you're investing in. You're an oil and gas producer. And so we're seeing the maturation of the hardware side and the mining side of the industry.

And I think that's a really bullish indication, right? Bitcoin's price is a measure of its demand because we know its supply. Its supply is predetermined that monetary schedule isn't going to change. And so Bitcoin's price is a measure in many ways of its demand. And I think people underestimate the amount of demand that doesn't come from, you know, not necessarily from those who are looking to store their wealth in a sovereign, immutable way that they can, they can custody. But from those who are looking to rescue stranded energy.

And they demand Bitcoin for an entirely different reason that most people aren't thinking about. And it's trillions and trillions of dollars of stranded energy on a daily basis that's getting wasted. Bitcoin rescues it. And so, you know, I see this entire kind of side of this industry that's coming and and be, you know, being realized. And it's hard not to be incredibly bullish. The people I'm talking to, you know, they're, they're, to say they're Bitcoin ignorant would be an understatement, right?

They are so, they're still, they are at the absolute very beginning, right? This is the absolute first time they probably even had like a conversation around this, to any serious degree with somebody who is knowledgeable. And so oftentimes it just comes down to very basic questions like, you know, do I need to have a whole Bitcoin before I can sell it? Right. Like literally that question. alone. And then when you begin to describe to that, like, well, no, it's, you know, it's divisible to

this degree. It's, you know, easily transferable. And once you answer those questions, this becomes real to them. It's no longer this Mario coin. It's no longer this magic internet money idea, right? Kind of like what Jim was talking about, where it's, you know, it's seemingly just maybe drug dealers use it or something. It's no longer that. It becomes this really, this very real and autonomous energy consumption market. That's what they see it. And I look at them, I'm like, you're an energy producer, this is an energy consumption market, you ought to be proficient with this. You ought to have a good understanding of what this technology is because if it applies to anybody, it applies to you, right? You're the one that's going to be able to leverage it the most. And they're

beginning to hear that and beginning to take steps to prove the concept and get familiar with it. So, I mean, it's all, it's, you know, full steam ahead at this point. You know, we're so busy at upstream data. We're building constantly and more inbound than we can't even handle really. So it's, it's exciting times. I mean, there's no reason to be bearish. There's absolutely, I mean, China, it means nothing to me. It's irrelevant to me. There's this whole other side of it that it can't be stopped by China saying it's illegal.

Like that doesn't stop the guys that I'm talking to in Oklahoma and what they are going to do this year. So it's exciting times. I love this. And I love it even more because Steve lives like 10 minutes away from me. Oh, yeah. And he's here. and he's hitting the ground hard. And also I very much remember, like, go back three years, 2018.

I remember watching Steve doing presentations in Edmonton, like three hours north of where I am. And it was still small. And it was like, it was a struggle to get interest still. Oh, no, yeah, they laughed. I mean, like, the O-Ingas industry was really laughing at this. Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. And to see the inevitable.

success of what him and you have been talking about over these past years is fantastic. And I mean, we have a money that actually reflects

human time, effort, and efficiency well, of course it's going to be tied to energy. Of course it was going to. And the people that made those connections early are the ones that I think will be incredibly successful and apparently with my Freudian sleep

and as a slip sexy well into the future successful and sexy well to the future well no you're right but you make a good point you know it's one of those things where yeah I think gold for the age of time right was a representation you know because of because of its proof of work gold is is scarce to a you know a very high degree just because of its natural occurrence in the earth's crust and it's difficult to find and it's certainly difficult to, you know, to refine and polish and get into any kind of a jewelry and such. And so, like, there's always been proof of work, you know, throughout the history. And there's that, a recent documentary, Mags was mentioned in it. And I was as well featured in a recent documentary.

What's it called the, this machine greens, I think? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely check out that documentary. If, you know, anybody that's in the audience hasn't seen it yet. I mean, it's, in my opinion, it's, you know, there's like a little bit of, of, of, kind of greenwashing in there of Bitcoin. And I don't think Bitcoin, we don't need to greenwash it.

You know, like, it's great. Bitcoin's great as it is. Yeah. But it really is a documentary, certainly into the history of how energy, you know, interacts with money. And obviously how Bitcoin is what I would call, you know, the most precise, most accurate representation of proof of work, right? Most accurate representation of energy input.

Because it truly comes down to the kill. watt hour, right? What it takes to produce a kilowatt hour. And so I can'try Ford predicted, right? This is, we have now a decentralized currency that is tied to kilowatt hours. I love it. Max, I know you wanted to, to, I don't know if you were going to add in there, but feel free to if you had any thoughts on what Adam was saying. Many thoughts. Which one would you let know? All of them. Just throw it out us, Mages. Well, as soon as you started bringing in proof of work, it's really, for me, it's, and I'm seeing this conversation play out a little bit more, including in a documentary we just did, but also, so Nidig just did a report with Nick Carter, and a big focus of the report.

It was looking at, you know, how green or clean is Bitcoin now and with respect to how much energy use it's taking and might eventually in kind of the future. But I'm seeing a lot more focus of the conversation is really sort of like the value that it provides, similar to other energy intense innovations that are improving the lives of humanity and helping us flourish, right? So we've got heating, air conditioning, aviation, the internet, right? You're looking at 4.2 billion people living under authoritarianism. We've got a billion people living under double or triple digit inflation. two billion people that are unbanked.

And that is what we, what we're here for and the proof of work is that the system that is both like the bearer asset, but the payment network, which we'll get into a little bit later on this episode. But I think that's the really important part. It's this narrative. It's not a waste. It uses waste and it's valuable. That's a great point, Max.

And that hasn't been a very predominant, like, driving point of many of the discussions. and it just kind of gets overlooked for, you know, for I guess obvious reasons that there's these points of contention and these, you know, kind of these confrontations and arguments around, you know, the nuances. But you're right, the value that Bitcoin provides is now becoming much more apparent, maybe more easily identifiable.

And more part of the conversation. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's, I mean, realistically, Bitcoin at its core is just a measure of, not only proof of work, but the truth behind that, right?

And so the most efficient way of getting energy is going to be the most efficient way of mining Bitcoin. And yes, for a time, subsidies for various industries may skew that, but those subsidies can't keep up forever because the subsidies are denominated in fiat. And if you try to keep that aflo for too long,

it devalues the fiat because you have to keep on printing to subsidize said industries. So, you know, it comes down to a level of truth of, hey, what is the most efficient way of using energy and what is the most efficient way in which we can mine Bitcoin? And Bitcoin, again, as the difficulty adjustment moves back to and fro, it demands the most efficient way of getting energy to my money. it. So again, it's like this truth machine as to the reality of the laws of thermodynamics, really. Yeah, you can't cheat it, right? You can't, you can't, you know, much like what the government does with regulations and oftentimes, I mean, what they're doing, you know, a lot with carbon credits and things. And through any kind of subsidization, they can, you know, they can kind of bend the economics and such. But Bitcoin is kind of this driving force that, you know, sure, maybe in the short term,

you can kind of have impacts on it and you can you can you know drive attention or drive industry a little bit one way or another but at the end of the day bitcoin is going to incentivize you know individuals to innovate around power generation innovate around ways in which to generate electricity that's more economic no matter what anyone tells them because this this bitcoin price in the sky of you know six or seven figures is going to tell them hey if they innovate around this and they're successful they're going to be directly compensated for their success from being able to go mine Bitcoin. And so what I think is we're going to see an industrial re-revolution and energy production, right?

It's kind of a renaissance and power generation. I mean, if you look at even like the internal combustion engine, there hasn't been any innovation around the internal combustion engine in fucking 25 years. Like, why not? Because nobody's going to be incentivized to go freaking innovate around it because that's not where the money comes back to, right? But now it will be.

Now, you know, when it comes to these large 400, 600 megawatt, three-sip motors and stuff, guys are going to start innovating around that and optimize them because there's a direct dollar reward on the margin to be more efficient. No, 100%. Like, the beauty of Bitcoin is the economic incentives, and they have led to, you know, high renewables penetration in the Bitcoin mining space.

But we're also seeing, you know, historically we've seen an underinvestment in clean tech, low-carbon tech, but we are actually seeing it happen based on economic incentives in projects like, you know, miners partnering with nuclear, micro-nuclear reactors, with hydro plants that are like the oldest hydro plant plant in the U.S., you know, carbon, like, flaring, cow poop farms, no seriously, biogas. Like, it's happening, it's renewable and it's cleaner. So we are seeing this transition to more, it's more distributed kind of resources in our electrical

system and that's very well aligned with Bitcoin mining. Mags, it's not PBS. Max, you can say shit here. It's fine. For regulators, policymakers and legislators like us, it provides a win-win-win situation because the converse, the other side of the coin of the stranded energy

is that it's not only stranded, but it's otherwise for those of us who are in climate change policymaking at an international level, that energy is often carbon destructive. So the gas flare, which would otherwise be emitted into the atmosphere, is not only being consumed by Bitcoin mining, making Bitcoin mining carbon negative, but making it profitable and carbon negative at the same time.

So Bitcoin mining will drive energy, the energy industry and innovation, I think, for the next century, because it's the most renewable energy sector, industrial sector on the planet. And for my region, which is hit most by the effects of climate change, Bitcoin mining is a plus plus for us. It provides us a possibility for us to mine. and therefore produce wealth and access to generational wealth for our people, but in a manner which is carbon negative. So it's a no-brainer.

Well, plus it makes Bitcoin stronger, right? I guess that's the thing I think about too is, you know, I mean, I think about have tens of thousands of oil and gas wells. I mean, there's going to be thousands of portable Bitcoin mines all over, not just North America, but the world. And, I mean, you know, short of a global EMP that disrupts all electronic devices, is like Bitcoin's not going down, right? I mean, like the grid could go down and I'm still mining blocks.

And so it's hard. Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean like that. That's short of that, we're going to be all right. And even then we've got block stream who's got, you know, nodes in space. And so that'll be unaffected. The network will be preserved.

Yeah. So what's happening in Texas, in Alberta and in Wyoming, I think is going to lead where the energy sector is going to go for the next century. And one of the ironic things, one of the ironic things about, you know, all the the fud about the waste of energy is it assumes that Bitcoin and current energy spent on everything else based off a Fiat is going to continue rather than Fiat or Bitcoin overtaking Fiat and it transferring there. And it doesn't, it only looks at the use rather than the outcome. So like for instance, I don't know, you could say that watering a tree is. a really bad use of a resource because you're wasting water, but you're not looking at the benefit of having a large tree that's going to clean, you know,

your make clean oxygen for you and actually help the environment overall. And then you look, here's the benefit, not just what it's using. And then as this progresses, we say, all right, well,

right now, yeah, we're having to use clean water. But then you go and I guess a staying on that metaphor of, of renewable energy would be like gray water. It's like, hey, we found better ways to use energy.

actually recycle water to even have a better impact on what we're doing. And look, it's taking over from something that used to be waste. And now we're putting it to good use to actually produce something and build trees that are going to help the environment even further. So there's just so much disconnect between the use, the benefit, and then the progression of the resources that will be used to continue, I guess, grow this landscape. And with the knowledge of my senatorial and

congressional colleagues in the US, my colleagues in Europe, that disconnect is often a deliberate one that is put out there by particular groups in legacy, whether it's legacy media, legacy finance, legacy energy. Yeah, there are self-interested groups that are putting out that misinformation. So 100%. Bitcoin, fix the money, fix the world is not a cliche. yeah absolutely i'll i'll echo that uh denver was messaging in the background he he has a meeting that he has to get to so uh anybody that's watching that wants to uh check out more of what uh denver bitcoin a k adam is doing uh his twitter link is in the in the show notes uh and we'll move on from there i will just say also um jim to your point around uh the way that some of this

and and lord facetia what you were talking about um the way some of this is measured is not it's not all exactly uh they're not doing it well they're not doing good calculations and what i mean by that is they assume that uh energy cost first of all they they do energy costs per transaction which already is is a terrible way of measuring it but secondly they assume that that bitcoin energy consumption grows linearly linearly with the number of transactions in the network, which is just not the case because we're secondary to consume all energy in 2020, which we have to be. That's right. That's what I hear. It's already, I don't know how I'm even powering this show because by definition, Bitcoin should be consuming all energy everywhere

right now. However, somehow I'm running a node with very, very little energy right behind me. That's confirming all transactions to and from my lightning and regular on-chain Bitcoin wallets. And it seems to be doing just fine. So again, like people that aren't in the know, they miss the fact that base layer transactions are entirely different from Lightning Network on top, which already enables millions of transactions per second. Literally the only limitation there is opening and closing channels and then your bandwidth. far as transactions go. So it's just disingenuous at best, at worst, it's malicious.

So it is what it is. But again, Bitcoin is this truth machine and over time you can't escape that truth because the laws of thermodynamics won't allow it. When you're supposed to be a legislator or a policymaker that's working to improve the lives of the 4 billion odd people in emerging markets, 2 billion, as Mags has said, who are unbanked, many of whom are hand to mouth and can barely survive. This technology can change their lives. And because you're self-interested, if you're an El Salvador and you're one of the families that owns Western Union's iteration there, or like me, ironically, you may not know this,

I'm the attorney on retainer for federal Pacific finance who own Western Union in Tonga and in Timor Estay and in half the Pacific. So if you want to hold back that alternative for people to improve their lives for disingenuous camp misinformation campaign reasons, then yeah, that's not right. Yeah, it's unfortunate. But again, the truth will make its way through. So let's round out this conversation around this topic. Again, thank you, Denver, aka Adam, for that one. And we're going to keep it rolling.

And I'm going to toss it here to Jim. Jim, again, given your background, you kind of clude me in on what your topic might be. But let's let everybody know what your reason for feeling bullish this week is. Yeah. So obviously we like to see the number go up. like that's ideal, especially for those that already hold a good amount of Bitcoin. But for those that are getting in, volatility is phenomenal as long as you go in with conviction and a long-term plan and long-term vision.

So I'm bullish because of the recent volatility and the opportunities for people to dollar cost average in. You know, if you're, I think they call it mining Bitcoin through your fiat job. So if you're working, collecting a paycheck, as normal people call it. If you're working, collecting a paycheck on a biweekly basis, and that's, the price only goes up, then you're continually buying more expensive Bitcoin versus right now, you're being presented with opportunities every other week, it seems. And hey, every time that your paycheck comes out and that coincides with China saying that they're going to ban Bitcoin again,

like, hey, that's good news for you. If we didn't have this volatility, you would continually buy more and more expensive. So that's what, I mean, dollar cost averaging through volatile markets allows for an average lower purchase price. So that's, that's good news. news for people who are continuing to fill their bag. Yeah. And this is this is my dilemma every month. I get paid at the end or beginning of the month. And so I'm looking at this tasty dip.

It is now September 24th and I see it eking back up. And I'm and I'm like, oh, six days. Come on. Just can China ban it one more time today, please? It's like, well, guys, do me a solid and just say that it's like super band or something. And I would love that. I feel like U.S. regulators might come to your aid. It's the SECs and CFCs.

It's really near end. So typically they have put out some pretty strong, what do you call it, fines? Like last year it was Bitmex. So there might be still a dip. Sorry, guys. We'll see. But today, we did have options. expiry and tradition like we've seen before Bitcoin dipping around options expiring. It's also

the quarterly expiry. So maybe that's going to work against you. So you never know where it's going to go. My luck, honestly, every month, it's like it hits around that time. And it's, it's like, I just, just missed it. I mean, it was kind of nice in and around like after May, like, you know, June, July. Those, those end of month. where I was like, oh, sweet, cut that dip. But yeah, now I'm always watching. And it's once you kind of are, once you're on that Bitcoin standard, which effectively I am now, you know your expenses,

you know your monthly bills. You get paid. You immediately convert to the dollar amount that you need for your expenses for the month. and then the rest you just save. So when a dip hits, you're like, fuck yeah, I'm gonna,

you know, I'll convert, and then I'll hold the rest, and then you just, you're good to go. But when, when it spikes just prior, you're like,

ah, damn it. And a funny story. And I got to give a shout out to, because Bill Fottle is one of them. I guarantee they're probably going to watch this and be like, Ben, So they're a sponsor of the show.

And then they like, they forgot to send me my sats at the beginning of the month. Like I think it was earlier this month. And, and then like big, big dip. And they're like, they're like, oh, do we pay you yet?

I'm like, no, you haven't. It's okay. You can do it now, though. And they're like, fuck. And so, I relish in those opportunities. Like if I see a dip and it's the end of the month, I'm like,

hey, everybody invoices are out just so you know. But if, if it's up a bit, I'm like, we'll see. I'm not urgent in my emails. So it's,

you like structure your life in a different way. Whereas like, if I'm getting paid in Fiat, it's like, where's my fucking money like right now? So it's, yeah, it's different.

Yeah. It's sort of painful for me. I started my own, my firm this year in January and my wife, she stays home with our kids. So we actually, we committed to not having any income for 12 to 18 months. So yeah, I mean, gosh, a few months back, we had that retreat back down to like 29 or so. Gosh, I would love to have that opportunity to go and buy in. So it's all about your perspective. Now, of course, that is absolutely horrifying if you didn't have an,

a set intent with that. So yeah, no, it's gosh, another reason. Like I've, I've averaging bringing on about four new clients per month right now. And most of these people never held Bitcoin before. So if we were sitting where, let's say where, I don't know, we followed the stock to flow model where that assumed we would be right now. These new people will be buying at a much higher price. So I like that it's staying low. You know, a few weeks ago when it started going up, I was like, oh gosh, I was supposed to bring on three new people this, this coming. week and they're not going to be able to buy for as much for as much Bitcoin as I hope they could but fortunately hey we're back here so this is this is good news guys as long as you're going

into it for you're not looking at the daily uh daily price move your your mindset switches when when you've been in Bitcoin for a certain amount of time and you've experienced and uh I I kind of think it's once you've experienced an actual bear market like in its entirety you're you're it's it's like you get thick skin and you're just dead. inside and and it just doesn't matter anymore and you're like you just see the dip and you're like and you just kind of like stack some sats and you go about your business maybe you get a little bit more salty on Twitter but in the end is fine that's that's about it so it's uh it comes with the territory but yeah like watching this like waking up and and looking at the price first

and being like what did fucking china ban bitcoin again And then that was the actual thing that happened. Are you serious? That's what this is actually, I was joking in my head to myself about the possible reason for the dip. And it was the real reason for the dip. It was mind-boggling. But I was like, I'll take it.

I'll grab some extra stats with any fiat I got kicking around. Chief meme officers are celebrating because they can recycle all the China bands memes. absolutely um yeah let's okay so let's let's let's round this out jim i i i love uh your reason again dcas through through everything you get exposure to all these tasty dips that that china provides us and up and they've provided us with so many through the years so so so many so dating back to 2013 you know that you can really thank the CCP for for giving us cheap sats every once in a while

here and there. So, so hats off to what's his name? What's the mascot that he hates? Winnie the Pooh. Yeah, hats off to Winnie the Pooh. Thanks for the cheap sets. Let's round this off.

We're going to move to we're going to move to Max. Max. You are up. You're going to give us your reason for being bullish this week. And in the meantime, everybody in the chat, smash that like button, give this a share. And let's give it up for Mags. What's going on? So I am bullish because we are seeing continued integration of the lightning network into our society. So now not only do we have a country on the Bitcoin standard. Now anybody can use the monetary network of Bitcoin on the lightning. You connect to one of the largest social media networks and Twitter.

And you can just send money to anybody in the world. And again, it's not like you're necessarily sending Bitcoin so I can send you. All my reason. And you can get yen or you can get USD. But the whole point is we're utilizing Bitcoin the network. And it's just so magical to see, you know, we've got this open, decentralized, permissionless, fully accessible, you know, monetary network that's natively digital. and anyone can join.

And I'm so glad to have, you know, someone here who truly understand the benefits that they can have to board a country like doors. And I think people are still just starting to understand it but not yet get the full impact of what we're doing. Like we're creating new networks that are stronger and the foundations on which they are built are something that we haven't really seen before.

So that's why I'm bullish. I think that's fantastic. And again, like, I bet everybody in the chat has been screaming. Like, why is this not a reason it is? We just mags dibs did it in the chat beforehand. And here we are. But, you know, it's Twitter has 200 and something million users. Active users.

Active users. Yeah. So it's like, it's, yeah, it's huge. And then the fact is that all I can do is, well, actually, I'm a little salty because I can't yet. I don't have strike in my country. But I, so I can't use the strike app to get SATs, but I can't tip anyone. And it's not just tipping. It's like sending a remittance to somebody in another country using Twitter, right?

And I think the key part is it's like, okay, oh, yes, well, we could have used it, you know, other tools before. And that's true. but I think it's just something about making it easier for people. Like click here, I can send money. I don't have to get another app. I don't have to download some sort of corruption. Because I could do it with Zabidi wallet before. So I've got that enabled.

And I know Mike from coin kite. Coin kite. Sorry, coin, cold. Ah, my God, what is Mike's company? He does the cards. The cards. Card cards. Thank you.

Colport, Mike's Colport. Yeah. Yes, yes. So he's been using BTC pay server, I believe, to do the same thing like tipping. But it's all about access and enabling access and so many people already have Twitter. So I think that's why it's pretty fantastic. Yeah, it's, I mean, again, it's, it's, you just slapped 200 million people in the face with Bitcoin. And, and, and Jack Mallors made a good point that, yes, Twitter for the tips feature,

it enabled other stuff and enabled cash app and PayPal and all this stuff. But the only global monetary network that it enabled is Bitcoin and the Lightning Network. That's the only one where across the entire globe it will work seamlessly. You can send money to anywhere internationally, instantly. And they did. Jack Mallor's had a video of him doing an example of this. He had his friend standing in a start. in El Salvador that instantly received $10 and then upon receipt of that $10 used it immediately because it settled in a second, used it immediately to buy himself a coffee at Starbucks because now El Salvador everywhere accepts Bitcoin.

And so it just showed that for no cost, he zipped only $10 across the globe and that somebody was able to immediately use it to make a purchase. and that is groundbreaking. That's massive. And I don't know, like all of these payment networks and the old way that we did money, it's like they part of it was, you know, they want their proprietary. They want their own network. But the other part of it is that they regulated themselves. Yeah.

Well, exactly. Plus they regulated themselves into a corner. They didn't want the competition. They were like, no, stay out. So we're going to add in these extra hoops for you to jump through. And then along comes this global monetary network that doesn't give a fuck. It kicks open the door. It's like, deal with this.

And that's it. And it's beautiful. And I love it. And so I'll let, you know, Jim, Lord Fitzsitua, if you want to add in here, feel free to take the mic. Yeah, 100%. Like you said, it takes advantage of the three things that Lightning offers. of a premium to emerging markets. It goes cross borders.

As Jack said in his interview with Peter McCormack, it takes an average of 10 to 12 hops between intermediaries between you and the receiver for a standard banking transfer, rather a Western Union transfer, the intermediaries you have to go through. So lightning gives you one peer-to-peer boom, cross-borders, in a nanosecond for a tenth of a penny. And it does that in Jack's great term, which is a bearer instrument that offers cash finality.

There's no tallying up between visas, your bank and the other person's bank, your visa at the end of the month, instantaneously automatically. Those three things occur. So, yeah, it's absolutely brilliant. and you've now merged it with one of the largest social media networks on the planet, which addresses Jim's companies kinds of concerns, which is onboarding normies,

people who would not otherwise come to Bitcoin, can now just while they're checking for Nikki Minaj's latest tweet, take advantage of a global monetary network that will become ubiquitous. as we move ahead. So yeah, absolutely brilliant. Yeah. Jim, are you, are you feeling, is this a plus for you to be like, hey, this is literally just integrated on Twitter just so you know. Yeah. Well, if you think of something that you're going to trust, it usually takes a few credited points of exposure. And yes, you know, most people initially heard about Bitcoin through some sort of fud. So it takes that much more of an uphill battle for people to be comfortable with this.

So having people like, you know, Jack on CNBC or whatever, like he's such an amazing spokesman for this. But then, yeah, if someone logs into Twitter and they see like, wow, this Bitcoin is here. This is here too. This must be something to it. So it's just getting in front of people and building that trust over time. So, I mean, even personally, it took a few interactions and exposures to Bitcoin by trusted parties that made me comfortable with it. So the more things like this that's in our daily lives, the more trust is going to be built in. and then the quicker the engagement and the adoption that we're going to see.

Sorry, I asked me. And with Jack's example, we found in time my team's begun doing financial literacy workshops in the villages because that what we've found is a better first step towards Bitcoin than going in cold because most people don't have financial literacy because that's not part of the international academic curriculum for very particular reasons. There are people who ensure that that's not included in your curriculum. So getting them to learn the fundamentals of money

and then what we found through trial and error is Moon Wallet is the easiest onboarding tool because it's non-KYC, they can download it in five minutes and you can have 20,000 sets in their hand within a few seconds. So the fact that Jack used that in his video, that was not lost on me because he's showing you that, all right, the receiver may need strike, but this completely non-KYC thing is absolutely available to anyone

to send a remittance through. Eventually the receiver, as strike rolls out, and other wallets are usable, that will grow. but he makes onboarding look really easy, which it is if you try, and if you're willing to show people. And I'll get to in Wyomboish, he makes the very, he reiterates the clear distinction

between Bitcoin the assets, which he likens to a precious metal and Bitcoin the network. So that distinction, is a crucial distinction to be made because people in emerging markets may not necessarily need to immediately touch the precious metal part of Bitcoin, but the network can change their lives and ensure that they receive $100 when $100 is sent rather than $70 because that extra $30 could mean their kids go to school with breakfast that week or not. So yeah, that's sort of the paradigm changing value of the lightning and Bitcoin's uptake on Twitter. And for me, why unbullish is lightning in a larger sense, not just what Bitcoin and Lightning is in and of itself,

but what it represents insofar as lightning's life-changing technology. I love that. So are we diving right into your reason? You're bullish on lightning then. Yeah. I love it. Let's just segue right into it. I'm stoked on lightning.

So I'm going to let the rest of the panel, if you guys want to start shooting the shit on lightning, then take it away. But yeah. I'd like to hear more about your. experience and actually I really enjoyed your podcast with Peter McCormack and that was a few months ago I feel time's fly and I'd love to hear and I know understand that you know sometimes in the political realm you can't divulge many things but if there's any updates you can give because it's been some time we'd love to hear it or just yeah absolutely I'm happy to uh yeah so I'm bullish um on Twitter making use of lightning uh as a representation of microcosm of lightning in a broader sense and how it's going to change the world. For instance, as you would have noted from my interview with Peter, the immediate

utility of Bitcoin to emerging markets are those payment rails. Without adoption even and access to the asset, just the payment rails can solve the remittance issue for many countries. And mine in particular, it was not by coincidence that Kathy Wood mentioned us on the B word. It's because we are the largest country percentage of GDP are dependent on remittances. Our society is based around the extended family and the economic metric. or tangible economic metric that can be measured of the influence of that extended family is our remittance dependence. So we've got Tongans abroad who are three generations deep, US-born, never seen Tonga,

but because of our extended family system still send money back to Tonga. So traditionally, you've got three generations of people. And I've spoken or had approaches on Twitter from people from Mexico, Puerto Rico. They're three generations deep of paying up to 50% Western Union fees. For four generations, they've had to do this. So if you add up all that money, they've been paying in Western Union fees. In an industry, which is 700 billion annually, 30 billion is in fees alone. nothing else but fees.

So when lightning comes in to solve that, as I said before, it offers the three things which you need in emerging markets is cross borders instantly, effectively free and cash finality with it. So there's no waiting. As Jack mentioned in his video for up to eight days for Western Union to get there.

And then for places like Tonga, like El Salvador, you've got a five-hour bus ride to get to Western Union because it's only in the city. It's going to cost you $10 either way. So that's already taxed off of what you're going to receive. In El Salvador, you've got the gangs there. In Tonga, we've got our unemployed youth who hang around the urban areas and ask for money. So culturally, it's bad for us to say no, so they'll tax you also. So, yeah, the utility of lightning is, in my personal belief, lightning will propel Bitcoin adoption over the next decade

by the uptake in emerging markets. Because those 4 billion people, it's not a consumer choice for them. It is a survival choice. An existential threat of not being, of having a 30% tax on what is effectively a salary to them. If you speak to El Salvadorians, those remittances is effectively a salary or a form of unemployment benefit for them

from their relatives overseas. So imagine if you in the US had federal income tax removed, that 30%, that is the impact, the equivalent of the impact that it has in emerging markets. So because those 4 billion people, will have to turn to strike or other solutions on the Lightning Network, one to store the value of their time in places where there's hyperinflation like Venezuela or Nigeria, or to become less remittance dependent like Mexico, Philippines, India, Tonga.

Because of that, the sheer numerical volume of that 4 billion people is why it will propel Bitcoin adoption in my opinion for the next decade. So that's something to be extremely bullish on because as that adoption increases, so of course does the value of Bitcoin increase. So of course, in the West, where it's an investment property, it's value will increase.

So all the people who buy it for that particular reason benefit also. So having the global monetary network where both the network and the, asset benefit an entire spectrum of people, the network people in emerging markets, the asset people in G7 nations. As I said in the interview with Peter, in the G7 nations where there's very entrenched to centuries long Fiat central banking, it's a store of value and it's working through a medium of exchange, hopefully to get to a unit of account. In emerging markets, it's beginning as a medium of exchange.

And then when people can eventually afford to, they're now getting that extra 30% of the remittance they didn't used to. Eventually, they'll remember, hang on, I got by on that 70%. So maybe for the first time in my life, I have the opportunity to have savings when I never did before. So that 30% now they will begin moving from a medium exchange to a store of value. So it's back to front, but Bitcoin still works perfectly. That is how pristine the asset and the monetary network are.

I love that. Jim, I don't know if you want to tag in anything in regards to, I don't know how much experience you've had with Lightning. Have you dabbled yet? Yeah, for sure. And I just want to comment, I guess this ties into your comments now and also what saying in regards to, I guess it was Mags, why you're bullish. But you mentioned the ability to quickly send Bitcoin and payment to other people. And yeah, there's a difference between trying to explain to someone what Bitcoin is and not going to this. You know, someone asked you,

what is Bitcoin? And then you find yourself in a 30-minute monologue of the history of money versus what's Bitcoin? Well, let me see your phone. And then instantaneously send money across the world for free. Like the ability to display it. That opens the door to have a conversation around, my goodness, like, if this, what it does, tell me more about what this is. So the power to actually display that side of the value. And that, again, that's only a fraction of the benefit of what this is.

So again, it's a way of just opening that conversation up to people who otherwise, they're not going to hear you talk about the history of money and stores of value. They don't care. But when they see this convenience, wow, it's intriguing. Let's let's talk more about that. You know what? That's actually a really good point. We went from what is Bitcoin?

I don't understand it to why Bitcoin, which I think is a better way to help people get it. And then now it's like, I'll show you how, you know, like let me just show you, boom, Lightning Network. I just sent money to El Salvador instantly. And you got it. And so like we're transitioning to like more. more captivating ways to onboard. Yeah. Was it Jack on the, was it CNBC or something yesterday?

Anyways, I don't know. They were talking about the new Twitter thing. And he's been interviewed and he showed. Yeah, he could have told them, oh, it's this amazing thing and it can do this. But instead, it's like, watch this. And minds were blown. And that has, that has to have legacy financial institutions scrambling. And that would not be as real if you just describe like,

theoretically this this could and will happen rather than here it is and this is this is right now yeah yeah yeah despite i mean my good friend brian uh shenobi uh tweeted uh let's not all make such a big deal about this twitter on this bit lightning on twitter it's not the beal and end all but it's also not a nothing burger uh but this needs to be expanded more which is a very brine thing to say but yeah i get exactly where he's coming from he he's looking forward a step where this becomes ubiquitous where we're we're looking forward to what jack's done is no longer surprising that will be the standard and i think that was jack's message this is a global network and this is coming whether you like it or not his interview was brilliant um he stated it

so succinctly and to the point and answered exactly, as you said, was I'm not going to give you a diatribe about the technicalities of turning it into Bitcoin under the hood, etc. I'll just show you, boom, this is how it works. And yeah, you can't argue with that. That was awesome. Think about when, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, to go, Jim, you go ahead. Okay, thanks.

Think about when the car became much more accessible to normal people. Like that changed not only that that changed the perception of the value of a car that change that changed industries for production and that also changed. Gosh, the way that cities were constructed. And we could have looked at that and said, Henry Ford like this is trash. You're making crap cars on a line, you know, but the iteration there of, hey, let's get this to the masses. And then later on we're going to have these supercars. But right now it's about getting it to the masses and allowing for an infrastructure to be built that we can continue to progress and build on from here. And allowing that to be shared.

Like he didn't, well, yeah, Henry Ford did some pretty crappy stuff, I guess. But the infrastructure that was built based off of that being accessible to the masses allowed for other people who weren't related. They didn't have, they weren't benefiting directly from Ford or company stock or whatever. It was this network of, hey, we're going to build roads. We're going to build gas stations. We're going to make tires. And right then it opened up a place of progress in a whole industry and the creation of something that had been thought of before

just because it became accessible to more people. That's what's happening right now. It's no longer this small thing that's for cyberpunks or something. It is, it's the masses. And, hey, how can this fit with my life? Ford effectively created the context for the word infrastructure. Infrastructure didn't mean anything before there was. an automobile because all those roads, those highways, everything, that infrastructure came from

having an automobile. And that's exactly like you're saying. The entire infrastructure of what Bitcoin and Lightning will be used by will change the way people live, the way people consume music, food, how they store value. It will have ramifications right across the human experience and just quickly I just realized I completely did not answer Mag's question at all sorry yeah so we've got the rollout of financial literacy to the villages we're getting moon wallet lessons rolled out then we have to respond to strike with the very generous offer from Jack very early on to hit them up if with what the next steps would be it would be for us to have to get back to them with the data about our shop fronts,

which would be the equivalent of the thousand cash points that he rolled out in South America, because if you're unbanked, you need somewhere to take your QR code and cash fiat out. Because that's kind of the whole point of strike for the unbanked. You don't need a bank account. You can go to a cash point and say, here, give me the fiat. So that's where we're at. The bill is still ready to go, but Parliament has closed for the year.

I'm not going to get into the country in time for this year, but Parliament opens in the end of May next year, and by then our borders will have been open for a few months. So, yeah, I will most definitely be back at work by then. So, yeah, sorry, Max, I didn't, I just realized, I never answered your question. But honestly, I really do appreciate it, and I'm really looking forward to seeing that happen then.

And you're right, there's still a lot of ground work to be laid, as we're saying, El Salvador between learning and education. That can be done in the meantime. Yeah. Fortunately, we have El Salvador's example to learn from. So it was mostly fudge, but the four things that were raised, which were internet connectivity in the rural areas in El Salvador.

Fortunately for us, we have 99% internet penetration throughout the country, fibre to the door for the islands. So even in places that have no running water or electricity, they've got 5G internet. So, yeah, that's one we've already got answered. The other issue was handsets. A lot of people either have brick phones or really old Android phones and aren't able to download the app or they have data restrictions on being able to use it in El Salvador.

Fortunately for us, we have a company called DigiSel, which is a telecommunications company, but they operate digital fiat remittances like Western UK, So they gave out free handsets to the whole country because they wanted 100% penetration in customers so that they get those fiat remittances through them. So ironically, and they also set up the point of sale equipment at all the vendors to make use of that digital fiat. So ironically, the infrastructure from that legacy finance is what will be used to rollout strike

strike will be those phones that were given out by the digital the remitters and the point of sale equipment that they rolled out will be what's used so that problem in El Salvador we also have solved and the final issue was education was mentioned for El Salvador that we've already begun rolling out so fingers crossed we're going to be able to reach the goal having learned the lessons they have. Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. I got to run, guys, but it was so nice to meet some of you

and to be on and explain why we're bullish. Awesome. Mags, come back anytime. Awesome. Great to me. And, jents, I'm going to start rounding it out here.

I know that Mags was on a tight timeline in Denver as well. But again, I want to thank you guys for, coming on. Jim, your first time, Lorfw Situa. This is, what, round two for you, I believe? Yeah. Yeah. And it's just before,

I'm really privileged to have the invitation and such an awesome, extremely well-informed and, yeah, greatly capable number of guests that I can learn from. So yeah, always an honor. Awesome, awesome.

Yeah, I was glad to have you back. And I hope you're doing well and always great to hear your insights and what's going on in Tonga. And Jim, thank you for being a first time guest here. You had a lot of great insights into how you're working with people. And again, for both you guys, your Twitter links are in these show notes. So, of course, go check them out. along with the other guests. Any final thoughts from either of you before we wrap this out?

Jim, after you, Bill. Gosh, I just love, I love what you're doing in Tonga. I think, yeah, it's amazing. Going back, we were talking earlier about infrastructure. I think it's sort of funny, like McDonald's, how they decide where to put their next location. They look at maps. They look at like Google Earth and see where are the major highways these intersections.

and they decide, all right, based off of that, here's our next location. So they can actually preemptively, there's construction for a major highway here. So we need to put a McDonald's here because there's going to be heavy traffic in the next X years. And then Burger King says, hey, McDonald's is going in here. We should put a Burger King across the street. So they're able to go through and iterate based off of someone else's experience and learn things. So I think what you're doing, you're doing great things. And the fact that you have a model to follow and you're learning from,

El Salvador's done. You're taking, you know, you're taking their, their, their hurts and their leadership. And I, yeah, I think the, yeah, I just applaud you. I love your country. I would love to make it down there one day. And we'd love to welcome you, brother. And for me, Jim's insights are perfect for a new nation coming to Bitcoin, which is how do you onboard, come? people that have no conception of Bitcoin whatsoever. What's the most user-friendly way? They don't want to hear about the history of money. They want to see, boom, this is how it works.

So those insights are very welcome. Appreciate them, Jim. Yeah, for sure. Awesome. Well, guys, thank you so much for being on. And thanks to Mags and thanks to Adam or Denver Bitcoin for being on. I appreciate all of your time. And I hope everybody enjoyed the conversation.

Jens, I'm going to cut your audio and video. now, but I invite you back anytime you like, and I look forward to talking with you guys again. Thank you, Ben. Always a pleasure, brother. Thanks, guys. Cheers. Everybody watching also, thank you guys for being here.

Everybody in the chat, always good to see you. I wanted to show, because we got on a little bit of a lightning topic, and we were chatting about lightning for a whole bunch, first about Twitter, but then just bullishness on lightning in general. And this is another thing that has me excited is looking.

So this is my lightning node here. And just another quick example of how awesome lightning is. This is these individual transactions for, I see one for 13 sets over and over and over again, you know, 13, 13, 13, 13, 23, 23, 23, 23. These are people listening to why are we bullish? These are people listening to the podcast, streaming and paying per minute in SATs directly to my lightning note. So these are people that I always take the audio off of this show and the news show, and I put it up on the podcast afterwards,

and it goes out to the podcast index, and then goes out to various platforms like Breeze Wallet or like Fountain. and so you can catch it audio only and people can stream sats. And this is just another example of how sats and Lightning Network are enabling content creators and people that create things to have a direct line between them and the people that are consuming the content and cut out those in-betweens. Like this right here, YouTube doesn't get a cut of this shit. It comes directly to my Lightning Node. You know, there's not somebody taking, taking something in between. It's just straight sats.

And it's incredible. And to see the network grow and allow things like this are, it's insane for me. Like 20 sats right now, this is about a penny, right? A penny per minute. And that's nothing to the average person. But in the context of like, you know, somebody that's getting even just a thousand listens of their podcast and somebody listens to an hour of. content, that adds up quick.

And it's incredible that, that, you know, small content creators can benefit from that. So I'm super bullish on that. And I think it's incredible. As always, guys, like, subscribe, share. All of those things are super important.

They really help get more people to the show and help get the, they appease the YouTube algorithmic gods out there. Of course, if you want to help the show in another way, You can hit the previously mentioned sponsors down below. Ledin, Bit Buy, BitRefill, Keystone, Bill Fottle, they're all down there. And if you're really like what you saw, you can always drop me a Bitcoin Lightning Network

or Main Chain Tip at my strike page, strike.me slash BTC Sessions. You go there, you type in any amount you want, you hit the tip button. You'll be greeted with a lightning invoice or if you click to the right, a regular Bitcoin QR code. Easy peasy. Anyways, with that, I am out. have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be, and I will see you guys next time for your daily session.