BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Dinosaurs Want To Take Your Sats! ep168

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

In a week of Bitcoin fear-mongering from institutional dinosaurs who really just want more Sats, today’s panel guests — who are always stacking — riff on what has them feeling bullish 🐂. 👉 Greg Foss:  32-year veteran of high-yield credit trading and Executive Director of Strategic Initiatives at Validus Power Corp. https://twitter.com/FossGregfoss 👉 Knut Svanholm:  Author of the books “Bitcoin: Sovereignty through mathematics” & “Bitcoin: Independence reimagined” https://twitter.com/knutsvanholm 👉 John Fakhoury:  3x Inc. 500 CEO, Bitcoiner, and founder of Church Satoshi (hodlelujah.com) https://twitter.com/PayItForwardDad 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $25 free https://bit.ly/397rlLN Get Wasabi wallet for Bitcoin privacy https://wasabiwallet.io/ Cobo Vault: secure your Bitcoin! https://bit.ly/2GgMFlH BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 LIGHTNING tips: https://tippin.me/@BTCsessions Audio-only version of the show: https://anchor.fm/btcsessions Telegram channel: https://t.me/btc_sessions

Wasabi wallet And Fairly Private What is going on everybody Welcome to the show It's another Friday That means we do another episode of why are we bullish I've got some fantastic guests

Coming on today Going to be a great bullish episode Plenty to talk about I know why I'm feeling bullish How have you guys been Have you been stacking sats for this dip? I sure as hell hope so As always

This is live Anything can happen So a quick disclaimer from my good friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The thing sucks. I can see the people piling in. We're getting close to 100 people here already. Be sure to smash that like button. Give this a share and hit up the chat. I'm going to be pulling in chat messages whenever I see something relevant. As always, I am Ben with the BTCC sessions. And this is your daily session.

Now, before we bring in our guests, let's just take a quick look at where we are in the market. This is the bitbow.io dashboard. We're sitting around 50,000 and close to around 600 bucks. It's been kind of all over the place today. We had a substantial dip. We were down in the 40s. I think we went down to 47 something. But right now on the bright side of things, for a single, US dollar, you can pick up 1,975 sats. Stack them all you can. 89% of all Bitcoin have been mined. And in terms of fees, still high for next block, around 210 sats per byte. But we're seeing a little bit of relief if you're willing to wait an hour. 80 sats per byte will do you. Still not cheap, but not as catastrophic as it was the past few days. Also, there's going to be a

difficulty adjustment incoming in the realm of 20%. So you'll see blocks start to pop out a little bit quicker. I think that's slated for around May 1st for that change. Welcome, welcome. Of course, before we bring in everybody, quick shout out to sponsor the show, lead.io. You can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different services for myself. These are the guys I go to when I need to get my hands on dollars.

But I don't want to sell my Bitcoin because, of course, that is a taxable event. And I'm always worried about having a buyback at a higher price. So I can go here to fix that problem for myself. And I get back the same amount of sats when I pay back the loan. Of course, they've got their Bitcoin and USDC savings accounts with interest rates up to 12.5% annually paid monthly. And their B2X offering will buy you more Bitcoin with the same loan mechanism if you're feeling mega bullish. Check them out. Links are down below.

Up next, Kobow Vault, one of my most used hardware wallets. I love this thing because it's 100% air gap. Meaning, you never plug it into anything internet connected. It's all done offline via QR code. Keeping the keys to your money also safe and offline. I love it. It's got a dedicated Bitcoin-only firmware. It's got a secure element.

And if you get the pro like I have, there is a fingerprint scanner and a rechargeable battery. Check them out. I like using this thing particularly from multi-sig alongside my cold card. Really awesome for that use case. Of course, I do live on Bitcoin. One of the ways that I can do this. One of the things that really helps me is bit refill. You can get just every damn gift card you can imagine.

You can pay on-chain or via Lightning Network, which makes things super simple for me. And the beauty for me, for somebody living on Bitcoin, is I do get sats back as I make my purchases. So be sure to head over, check them out. Also, beneficial for privacy because once you purchase the gift card, nobody knows what you're buying after that. And finally, don't screw around with backing up your wallets. If you put it on paper, might not be the most secure thing. You can just accidentally throw it out. Also susceptible to water and fire damage, get yourself something secure on steel like the bill foddle over on privacypros.io.

And with that, let's wrap it up. Let's get everybody in here and let me drop my screen here. We're going to welcome to the stage, Canute, Greg, and John. guys welcome to the show how's everybody doing great everybody's good awesome i'm glad to see you guys i'm super stoked it's going to be great i think it's great i'm going to really quick go down the line let you guys just do a quick introduction of yourselves um and then we'll we'll dive right in so i'll toss it to canute first dude can you just do a quick intro of yourself who am i i am a Bitcoin author. I write books about Bitcoin. I wrote these two. And I've written several articles,

and some of them have turned into little animated videos, which I'm very proud of. So there you go. A chill right here. Yeah. So, and I don't know what the future holds for me. I'm eager to find out, though. Well, it's always great to have you on. And if you haven't checked out of his books, you should. They're great. Let's jump next down the line. John, can you give yourself a little introduction? Absolutely.

I'm just a Bitcoin fanboy, a newfound parody cult leader at Sunday Satoshi Service, as you know, Ben, where if we're going to get accused of being a cult and religious, let's have some fun and save some shit coiner from everlasting financial doom. But second, I just wrapped up your book, Canute, big fan. I got through, I think Bitcoin through Mathematics is the title, but real quick, easy, and really succinct and profound reads. I really enjoyed that. There's so many books that I think are tangential to Bitcoin. And man, did you hit that on the head? I only give that to my brother. I think he's a newly orange pilled a member of the community. And so this is going to be his next gift. So thanks. Yeah, Bitcoin. A, a Bitcoin. A, a

Bitcoin dad here, raising the first generation of non-fiat children, trying to attract more folks to the cause, a business owner who's putting a lot of our treasury into Bitcoin. And honestly, just a real fanboy of Bitcoin and what it means for me, my family, and for the world. Awesome, dude. Glad to have you. And if you haven't heard him on Clubhouse, he is an excellent host moderator and frequenter of all the Bitcoin Clubhouse.

rooms. So be sure to check him out there. And let's jump down the line to our final guest, Mr. Greg Foss, you've been making the rounds. You've been everywhere. And that podcast with you and Preston was absolute fire. So thank you for joining us here today, Greg. So well, thank you. It's my second time. And then I have to thank you as a fellow Canadian. So I'm based in Toronto, Canada. I'm a 30 year credit trader, which means I traded all sorts of fixed income and debt products. That includes bank loans, credit default swaps, high yield bonds. That's where I got my start. Junk bonds. So yeah, I'm one of those crazy junk bond traders. But the thing I need to leave with your listeners is a junk bond is still not as risky as the equity. Everything else being equal,

if you own the bond of a company and there's equity and it's called a junk equity, excuse me, a junk bond. Well, the equity is super junk. So never forget that, you guys. Junk bonds aren't as bad as the super junk equity and that's my finance 101. What am I doing now? I retired from the hedge fund world in 2015-16. We had completed an incredible career or a career trade for me. And I said that's it. I'm out of this Fiat, crazy Fiat world. I got my start. I went to school in the U.S., came back to Canada. I started questioning the Fiat system in 1988. We don't have to get into it. But what am I involved in now, I fell down the rabbit hole in 2016, and you pulled up Bitbo, and that's really cool because we are, the company I'm involved with right now, Validus Power. If you looked at

Bitpo, you would see Validus Power is a sponsor of the Bitbo page. And we are Canadian energy company using flare gas to mine Bitcoin. So we're helping to cleanse the environment. I'm not going to say we're greening the environment. We are cleansing the environment using waste, energy. So you see the little thing right there. That's us. Validus power. And that is such a valuable bitbo is two Canadian kids out of Ottawa, right? So we're punching above our weight in Canada, I think. I'm not going to promote Canada over any other region of the world, but very proud to be here. And I also have three kids, John. And I'm 57 years old. I need you guys to remember this because I grew up without an iPhone because they didn't exist. I grew up without a

personal computer because they didn't exist. I have fallen down the rabbit hole of the beauty of digital decentralization. I'm an engineer from McGill, an MBA from Cornell University in the United States. And I have three kids and I want to save this Fiat Ponzi and call it out. So I'm calling out the Fiat Ponzi. I've been doing it since I found Bitcoin. Twitter and it is the most beautiful social media platform that I learn continuously. So thank you for having me. And if, well, I look forward to getting into this discussion. So thank you.

This is going to be great. Very excited about this. So those that have not seen the show before or this iteration of BTC sessions, effectively, why are we bullish? is each one of us is going to have a reason we are feeling bullish on why are we bullish. We live by the three R's and those are somebody gives a reason why they're feeling bullish. We all together riff on that reason and then finally we rotate to the next person. So super simple.

Meant to be just a fun kind of recap of our feelings over the past week or however long. So I'm going to get us started off with a reason. for being bullish this week. And it's kind of like antithetical to the name of the show, but it's a contrarian indicator. And what I mean is, would everybody just look at the fud-filled news nowadays? If you search Bitcoin right now, it just hefty losses, price retreats, crashing right now. And you get into some of these actual articles.

Bitcoin sinks as U.S. capital gains tax proposal injects fear into crypto market. And one of the lines, traders are likely anxious to sell now and secure their profits at the current capital gains rate. Are they? It keeps going. Bitcoin price decline deepens. Heads for worst weeks since February. Since February, you guys. Bitcoin price tumbling fast.

Fear is of a major 50% correction send Bitcoin crashing under 50K. And even more, this is my favorite, Guggenheim's Scott Menard, if you're unfamiliar, Guggenheim is putting tons of Bitcoin into their treasury. He thinks that it could plunge 50% in the near term because things are very frothy. Now, let's think back to January. We're going to hop in our time machine. And in January, Scott Minard went on CNBC and was saying, listen, we surpassed the price target of $35,000.

And it is due to, it's, it's probably time to take money off the table, everybody, take money off the table. Now, side note, Scott Minard at the time, they didn't yet have the ability to start buying Bitcoin and put it on their balance sheet. He had to wait to the end of the month. So he's ringing the alarm bells saying take money off the table. Meanwhile, he's getting ready to stack sats. He wanted your sats then. He wants your sats now. Don't sell your sats to Guggenheim. It's not a good call. And, you know, since his price called in when he was saying, hey, it's 35k, it's too high.

Well, I mean, look, we crashed to 50K. We crashed to 50K. People are bitching and complaining about 50K. And here we sit. And the funny thing is, in the little notes here, he says, I think we could pull back to $20,000 or $30,000 on Bitcoin, which would be a 50% decline. And then just a little note.

However, Bernard says he remains bullish over the long run, predicting an eventual rise to, $400,000 to $600,000. So this dude is saying Bitcoin's going between 400 and 600K, but beware we just crashed and we might crash a little bit further below 50K. Dude is telling you to take money off the table now. It is, it is, I don't even know what the words. Is this malicious?

I don't know. Like, Kano, what do you think of this? Do you think he's just trying to play the game, trying to get people to dump? Like, what are your feelings here, Canaan? Oh, I think you're muted. Yeah, what are my thoughts on this? Like, I hear the term 4D chess a lot, and I think 2D chess is hard enough for people. And I think no human being can master 4D chess.

So he's just trying, but it's, it's, It's sort of obvious, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I think so. Are you at all worried about short-term price corrections? I don't know the answer, but. No, they're an opportunity, of course, as always. They've always been and they always will be,

which I'll get into that later because that is why I'm bullish. That's great. John, what are your feelings on this latest round of Fudd news? mild correction here. How you feeling? I mean, I had this conversation with Hoddle like two days ago. So how many times can he get away with this? Right? Like that's the real question. Right. Like it's like the third time. It's like every month on the month.

You know, it needs to shake some weak hands. And this is where I try to implore those, man. Like these are guys that are trying to buy your Bitcoin. You know, Ben hits on it all the time. Don't let them stack your sets. Right. And like to me, this is a clear example of Wall Street trying to shake weak hands before they make their positions. they don't announce these things and move markets on themselves. And like what's crazy to me is like, I thought to myself,

like, how many times does he get to get away with this? And it looks like he might be getting away with it again. So yeah, don't sell him your sets. Don't sell me your sets. I'm going to buy them if you do. So that's kind of my take. Agreed. Greg, what do you think about this?

Like whether it be Scott Minard, other people calling for big pullbacks, is it relevant at all? So this is going to be a difficult answer for me because I came from that community, right? I was a hedge fund manager. And I need to explain how you trade a core position. So let's say Mr. Menard, who I've never met, has a core position in Bitcoin. That doesn't mean he's at max limit long in his core all the time, right?

you need dry powder to buy a dip he can't predict markets i think canute said it very eloquently nobody can't but you're also a bit of a marketing machine so you send out smoke signals to the market because you're marketing your expertise to a whole bunch of institutional investors who may or not become unit holders of your fund so he has to show an expertise and some people could call it a coin flip. I happen to believe the hedge fund community is better than a coin flip, but there's lots of people out there that don't think the hedge fund community is better than a coin flip, okay? I spent half of my career 15 years working at a hedge fund.

You have clients like everyone else. You have to play risk in return. You have to play probabilities. And you have to market yourself as an expert in the square. I like Guggenheim. I do not know Scott. I am not about to dis his expertise in the market. All I will say is this.

If he thinks it's going to $400,000, I guarantee you it's a core position in his book. Okay. He's not going to be shorted. Nor would I ever be shorted. Okay. But he is playing the ability to buy more of it at a lower price and rightly so markets can go up markets can go down the most disciplined trader is somebody

who is not peter schiff peter schiff has been wrong for so long and he just never reverse his position whereas scott has taken a core view that it's going up in price but he also says markets can get frothy so all i will say is this i'm almost certain but not a hundred percent certain that Scott is long. He's basically said so. He may not have 100% of his core position, meaning of the entire portfolio that he manages, maybe he said my allocation to Bitcoin's going to be 7%.

Let's just say. Well, he may be riding at 3.5% right now and wants to accumulate more. You guys got to understand that the real money management world out there never goes all in all the time in one asset. They just can't. Or else those people could do it themselves. Their clients could say,

oh, Scott, you're 100% in Bitcoin. Why am I paying you 2% per year to manage my portfolio if you're 100% in this one asset? All I'm saying, guys, always take a core position if you're wrong. And Scott could have been wrong at $25,000. And he may have been buying at $45,000 or $55,000 or $60,000. that's a disciplined trader. An undisciplined trader is somebody like Peter Schiff who has been wrong since $100 and refuses to reverse his position, even though he has the story mostly right.

So I won't take issue with Guggenheim. I will tell you that the number of institutional investors that are getting involved and sophisticated hedge fund investors that are getting involved in this square, you're going to see headlines come out. Raoul Paul going to come out. I might switch all my Bitcoin to Ethereum. All right. Mute that.

And just say he knows. He's headline. He's pumping subscriptions. Remember what your core position is. Then stick to your discipline. That's all I'll say. I love that. My key takeaway was mute Ralph Paul.

So everybody, again, we're going to kind of reset the room for anybody that is just popping in. but this is why are we bullish? Name of the game is we all have a reason for being bullish, and we get to riff on each person's reason. And so we're going to toss it down the line. Before we do that, of course, I want to say thank you to everybody that is here and is watching.

Of course, smash that like button. Give this a share. There's 270 people in the room watching right now. And yeah, let's keep on going. So I'm going to toss it to Canute. And Canute, if you would like to enlighten us with what? What has you feeling bullish this week? The same thing as every other week that everyone underestimates this invention or discovery,

because it has been said that the humanity's greatest shortcoming is her inability to understand the exponential function. And Bitcoin is a testament to exactly that. Because you have an ever-increasing demand combined with an ever-de-decreasing demand, combined with an ever decrease in supply and it's we're living through hyper bitconization we're living through the first small steps of a hyper bitronized world and i i i don't know how many of you saw this but i i paced a link to a little animation we made a couple of weeks back or a couple of months back i believe uh in the chat uh just on top of the chat which in which we try to explain why Bitcoin's adoption curve may be S-shaped,

but the price curve will be J-shaped because there's no end to hyper-bitonization. And this is the really weird thing. This invention is so much we can wrap our heads around. And people are starting to get that. And like there are events coming. Oh, there it is. Like the basic premise of that video is that, well, Bitcoin adoption may be S-shaped so that the Metcalf's law and the network effect makes everyone on earth sooner or later own Bitcoin. But it doesn't stop there because then all, I mean, each of us has a different amount.

of money in the bank and all that money were sooner or later going to Bitcoin. But the money printers will keep going. So the price will continue to go up. And when everyone stops using dollars, it doesn't end there. It doesn't even end there because what do we have then in a hyper-Bitconized world without countries and without central banks way ahead in the future? Then we have a global sound money-free market. And that is like the best state the world can be in.

and that will make production costs go down for everything at an ever-increasing rate, even faster than it is now. It's already exponential. And in this handicapped global free market we have now, where there's interventionism everywhere. But when we have a global totally free market with sound money in its base layer, there's nothing stopping us. And this will take us to the stars, guys.

Like, I think everyone is underestimating what Bitcoin will do over the next 10 years. A lot can happen in, I don't remember who said that. I think it was maybe Steve Jobs. Like, everyone overestimates what happens in a year, but underestimates what happens in 10 years. And I think this is definitely true for Bitcoin, but more on a week. basis, or monthly basis, you're like under, you overestimate what will happen during the next month, but you vastly underestimate what, what's happening, what will happen in the next few years. And this has happened over and over again, like 2017, when we, when we peaked and crashed,

so many people thought it was over. What is it now? Like, 2021. There's nothing. It's nothing. It's like, who knows where the price is going this year? Yeah. You think 50,000 is the top?

Come on. You think this is slowing down? Plan B is not bullish enough. Matt O'Dell is not bullish enough. No one's bullish enough. I'm not bullish enough. This is it. And that's like why I'm bullish this week.

I love it. I mean, you're so right. There's no real measure, no discernible measure for how high Bitcoin can go in dollars because dollars are infinite, right? Yeah. But beyond that, there's no, there's even no limit to the purchasing power of Bitcoin, which is what really matters, right? Dollars don't really matter. in a few years

they won't matter at all because no one will be talking about them there will be a historical thing and after that it gets even faster and that's that's the real fascinating thought and I've been

thinking about this a lot and I can't get it out of my head because it's it's too good it sounds too good to be true but these are exponentials. They are too good to be true. I mean, yeah, I agree with everything that you're saying. Like, the dollar is, is very quickly becoming a useless metric. And human

ingenuity means that we will be able to continuously produce more things, more services, more, more items, whatever we desire, will be increasingly efficient at doing that and good quality items. And so in a world where we become more efficient and create more efficient things and we have a sound money with a cap supply, you're right,

dollars are a poor metric. It's the purchasing power of Bitcoin that is exponential. Yeah, the thing you said about quality there It's like everything is of poorer quality than it needs to be right now because of the Fiat monetary system. Because things are produced to be sold, scrapped and sold again. And in a sound monetary system, things are produced to last. So this is so weird. I don't think anyone really gets what this is about.

And when does that happen, Canute? Like, I've had this conversation with lots of people, the community too, right? Like, once you start to see things through a bit, you know, a unit account of Bitcoin, the world really starts to significantly change. Like, you can't unsee it. You know, it's like you ever see those videos where they see like,

they make the glasses for the colorblind folks and they see it like for the first time. Like I try to. Yeah, that's me. Did you go through that, really, Ben? I did. Yeah. All right. Well, now you know.

Well, now you, now I have two questions. I start with you here. That's the tangent. But, you know, how maybe like, I have often used that as an analogy as to like what truly seeing Bitcoin is not that you stop learning about it, not that you can stop having truth to be revealed through it. But once you know, like once you know, and you feel like you have this, you know, as an investor and, you know, an asymmetric type of trade, if you will. But what was that like compared to kind of seeing color for the first time? That's crazy that you've actually gone through that. I'm so glad that you made this analogy.

You're not off the hook. I got a foul up for you. I had never, oddly enough, I had never gone through that analogy in my head because that experience for me was just something totally separate, you know, with my family, like having that experience of seeing these colors for the first time. So the story was that I learned I was colorblind in, you know, when I was in grade school. never really, you just kind of live with it. You don't really know what you're missing.

And then a couple of years back, my wife for Christmas got me the chromatic or whatever the name of the glasses are. And, you know, it was dead of winter in Canada. And I was like, well, I don't want to waste these on like the dreary, ugly, you know, frozen wasteland that I'm currently living in. So. The grand reveal, right, for the pro preface scene. Yeah, so in March of the following year, we did a trip down to, down to Mexico. And we were staying in the Mayan Riviera. And so she had me put them on.

We were in kind of like a resort and we were walking around. She had me put them on when, you know, there's like beautiful flowers and lush greenery and everything. And so I'm standing there. I put them on. And I was standing beside these plants, the big leaves and like the tips of them. There were just like shocks of the brightest pink. And I didn't know that the pink was even there. I just thought it was just like a green bush.

And all of a sun, I put it on. I'm like, oh, whoa, holy shit. Like I couldn't even see it before. And then she's like, take off the glasses and look at those bushes over there. And she's like, do you see the flowers in them? I was like, no, I see a bush. I see a general. I know it's probably a green bush.

And then I put them on and there's just like the brightest red flowers peppered all through them. And so again, after having put them on and then taken them off, I was then aware that there was a difference there that I knew before. But it was interesting. It's the same kind of thing when you experience Bitcoin and you kind of pull back the veil of how things actually work and how much money influences everything. do and how much a perverted monetary system perverts our incentive structures. And you can still view things through the old lens by watching mainstream media, right? You can still go and watch the news and see how the world sees everything right now, people that haven't been orange-pilled.

And you can still watch and look at that and go, I see how they see it currently, but I can't unsee what I've already seen because you see the cracks. You see the differences that are there between what you know is true and what you're currently looking at. And so that analogy, again, I had never thought to compare the two, but it is so in tune for exactly what happens when you get orange-pilled. So, John, thank you for bringing that up. And I invite you to ask your other question to consider. No, man, that's pretty cool because I couldn't have possibly known that you had that experience, man. So I'm glad we had that.

But canoe, no, no, no, you're not off the hook. I've got to ask you a question here. Yeah, but I've got a follow-up question. Oh, on the color I think. Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not off the hook, though. I'm not going to forget it.

I got it noted down here. So the first time you had those glasses on when you pulled a pair of panties off, was that the first time you saw the flower and not only the bush? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about that. I couldn't help myself. 100%.

Okay. Yeah. Oh, the awkward silence. No, I was just hoping my kids weren't watching this is all I was thinking. If they understood that, that means I failed. That's what I was thinking. It's having to last 11 here. So when does that happen? Like, when do you think?

I know you're going to say, well, I don't know. But like if you had to guess, because obviously like one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin, right? When you get to a unit of account, you stop thinking in terms of what fiat is, what taking profits mean. Like, that just all sounds. so stupidly silly and I'll talk a little bit about on my bullish case, but when is it no longer are we measuring dollars? When is my block clock? Like no, when do I stop looking at that number in my in my block clock? Right. Is that at one sat per dollar? Like, when is that like stop? When is that the couple? For a lot of hardcore bitcoiners, that's true, but we still look at that

number, right? And so what is that, when does that actually take place? And I'd love to get your take on this, especially after reading your book and thinking about how you kind of, you kind of, fragment things. Yeah, and my thoughts on this have changed over time. And right now I'm in a phase where I'm not sure if Bitcoin will ever be a practical unit of account because of the J shape. Because like I think if it pumps forever, I think there's a point in time where the price can't go down because of the limited supply and the never increase.

demand and ever ever increasing productivity people tell me that that's not how markets work and stuff but like that's not how what markets work now but in a hyper-bitonized world we're in a very different situation so I'm I'm not even sure that even after the dollar dies that that Bitcoin will become the most popular unit of account because there are more practical things to to measure like day-to-day items So if you denominate prices in liters of milk or something like that, that might be more useful for like a stable unit of account to measure the value of other things in.

But this is all speculation. I mean, I don't know if we're talking five years. I don't know if we're talking 10 years or 400 years or even 1,000 years here. I don't know where all. How about terms of price time, right? Like say in turn, I know we're talking about like future, you know, purchasing power in today's terms, right? But like, is that a million dollar Bitcoin?

Is that a $5 million? When do we stop thinking about it in terms of dollars? I want to chime in here because I think, and I saw somebody tweet this out, I can't remember who it was. I think it happens when the countdown clock for Moscow time on my block clock behind me, strikes zero. So when you can no longer get a single sat for a dollar,

you know, that's where I'm at. And I'm just like, that's a $400 trillion. You know, we're starting to look at a much different place and a much different world. Maybe my,

well, that point is, it's not that, it's not that Bitcoin has gone up so much that there's enough dollars to buy. But rather the dollar is so broken. Right, right. Oh, where was I in my thoughts? Yeah, yeah, I tweeted something along those lines.

Like when Bitcoin was at $63,000, like there will be a point in time where one Satoshi is at $63,000. And I, like, people, the responses I got to that tweet was like, you're completely mad or no one will be able to pay the fees and all of this stuff. But the fees don't matter if it's all on the Lightning Network, right? So not as much anyway. And there might be layer three solutions or whatever. A number is by definition infinitely divisible. So of course you can trade Satoshi's in other ways than on-chain. This on-chain business is like you're missing the point.

On chain is Fort Knox. You don't need Fort Knox for everything. And Lightning is just a very, very secure payment network. And we got those two and countless other ways of actually trading Bitcoin with each other. I mean, we can still use IOUs. We can still use a note that says redeemable for this amount of Bitcoin. I mean, there are solutions to that. So I've lost the question there somewhere.

Let me, can I chime? We're all trying to, we're all trying to, yeah. Can I chime in? Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, I was, I was going to actually try and not say anything in this. this in this because I felt I overspoke in the first in the first thing but firstly new canute let me tell you that was a beautiful uh your exponential you're you're true it's all mathematics okay exponential

is you want to ride the exponential wave so that's why you never want to be short bitcoin you need a core holding your co hoarding core core holding is going to depend on your own risk profile I'm not about to advise everybody what their core holding is going to be better better be more than zero okay and that sounds weak but there's so many people in the world that have zero so more more than zero will be enough at one point okay but here let's let's talk about how we're going to get there okay so first of all i'm an engineer i wanted to bring this up if you guys have never seen the blockchain in action on something like tradeblock dot com or there must be other apps out there showing the the beauty of the blockchain and the first blockchain ever the perhaps the first block

the only blockchain that matters. Bitcoin, it is a thing of beauty. As an engineer, I'm visual. So please check out tradeblock.com. That's what convinced me that this Bitcoin thing was real. Excuse me. So here's what we have. Theet is mathematically certain to debase.

Yes. When you have total debt in the world, total global debt to total global GDP, at a number of greater than four times where we are currently, total global GDP needs to grow at a number that's just not fathomable and not possible in order for fiat currency not to debase. Okay. So that is a certainty.

There is going to be two parallel systems that exist for a while. And I'm not certain I want the world to turn into anarchy or anything like that. And Michael Saylor said this eloquently in his conversation when, Frank Jostra. And if you guys haven't watched that, it is a thing of beauty again. Sailor is a walking mainframe computer that can actually speak. Okay. As an engineer, I went to school with a ton of really brilliant people like Sailor. The beauty about Michael is he can actually put two words together. He's not just a mathematical computer. He is a speaking computer as well. Okay. So Fiat is programmed to debase. We need a parallel system. And he actually stated that he thinks Bitcoin is good for the

US dollar. And I don't disagree with that. There are 180 other feats out there, guys. And every single one of them, with the exception of maybe two or three, are going to fail before the US dollar does. It's just the way it is. So you need protection against those other 165 before you even worry about the U.S. dollar. There will be a parallel system in which there's a Fiat currency for barter and there is a store of value, the most beautiful thing we've ever seen in the history of mankind called Bitcoin. Okay, technology, money's technology. But let me tell you a little story. Have you guys heard that story where there's a guy walking through town and he has a cow? And he's got a for sale sign on the side of his cow. And he says, I want to sell this cow for

$600,000 US dollars. And people are like, are you out of your mind? 600,000 US dollars? He's walking through town in the for sale sign. Two days later, same cow, same for sale sign. Five days later, he's walking through town with three chickens. somebody says, I told you you never sell that cow for $600,000. He says, darn right. I did. I sold it for these three $200,000 chickens. That's all a Fiat is, guys.

It's measuring barter. It means nothing. It is programmed to debase. It satisfies a currency transaction in a point in time. Do not store your wealth in Fiat, but use it for barter. And if you store it for wealth, you're a sucker. Okay, Newt, I tried not to say anything. You laid it out beautifully.

We may get to 63,000 per Satoshi, excuse me, my price targets and using credit default swaps and everything. You don't get there immediately. The world is always, you know, it's a dynamic. It's an ebb and flow. we have guys always looking at inflation. I'm going to tell you guys, stop worrying about inflation. It is a concern. The bigger component of fixed income is actually credit.

It's actually the worry that all of these other countries fail that the IMF is supporting. And they're going to fall bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, because they have historically as well. Okay. worry about credit more than you worry about inflation. Don't ignore inflation because it's there. But they're the same thing. No, sir. Not in my opinion.

And we could get into that. I don't want to get too granular. Yeah, but fiat currency is all debt. Like, it's only a tiny portion of it. All true. Okay, yes, all true. All true. So let's not worry too much about that.

I want to just tell you there will be a process of getting there. And I'm going to quote the most brilliant guy in the space that I know of, which is Michael Saylor. And he said on that discussion or debate or a slaughter of Frank Juster that the Fiat dollar, excuse me, the Fiat US dollar could actually benefit from Bitcoin standard. And I actually agree with that. I'm not going to go out and that's not my mantra. Okay. Right now, very simply, at $60,000 or $50,000, $50,000, U.S. per Bitcoin? Guys, it's a rounding error. Do not overthink this. I don't care if it's 40, 60, 50,

35. It is a rounding error. And Scott Minard said the same thing while talking his book. No one knows. 10,000 bucks here and there. Fellas, this is a rounding error. This is the best asymmetric trade I have ever seen in 32 years of trading risk. Okay. Why? Because it could, it has such a tail, it could go to 63,000 per Satoshi. My price target might be, you know, three to four million of U.S. dollars per coin, but you got to get through 100,000 first. So, sorry. Greg, where, why do you see a roof?

Why do you see a? Oh, I don't. I don't, but you need to understand me. I've been in markets my whole life. You got to get through 100,000 until you get to 200,000. And I think it's more. for us. And one of the reasons I don't wear laser eyes, guys, is because I think 100,000 is still a rounding error. I'm not aiming for 100,000. I can give a price target, but not a time.

I'll give a time, but not a price target. You never give both. If you give both in the markets, you're setting yourself up to be a fool. Okay. So just remember, we're on the right side of the trade, we have an asymmetric distribution, a tail to the right hand side, which I've never seen in my life before. Let it evolve and don't hope for the dissolution of the US dollar. Hope for the fact that the US dollar remains as a currency, but Bitcoin is the reserve asset of the world. Asset why? Because it's digital energy. And as soon as oil and natural gas are priced in Bitcoin, Bitcoin becomes the de facto reserve asset of the world. We can still have a currency. It's called Fiat. And it could be three chickens for one cow equals 600,000 bucks. Doesn't

matter. Guys, that's why currencies existed, because they eliminated the need for a barter. Okay. And I don't want to get too technical. And I do believe in the asymmetric return to the upside. but we got to do expected value analysis. And I will tell you, one of the things that Juistra had against Michael was he thought he was preaching too much. Jusra was, he said to Saylor, you're setting expectations. The reality is we don't have to set those expectations. We just have to tell people it's cheap right now. And in my opinion, once again, this is the cheapest insurance on the default of a basket of fiat currency.

that I've ever seen in my life. You got to own it. We don't set price targets over a period of time. We just say where it can go to. Knut, I think you're right. You're on it. It's exponential. But we need to get through the little, you know, the incremental increases.

And then we'll go back to Scott Menard. $400,000. Gosh, at that price, you've barely overtaken the price of gold. Like, who really cares? Gold's a rounding error. Like, just flip it off. Gold is 10 trillion. The total addressable market of Bitcoin is 900 trillion U.S. dollars.

Today and more tomorrow. Absolutely. You're totally right. But why don't we talk in today's dollars? So all of this is cool. It won't happen overnight. There's going to be ebbs and flows. Just remember we're talking anything laser eyes.

Guys, we got to change our laser eyes. Our laser eyes got to be, you know, if we do believe this, our laser eyes at a 100k? You just had someone comment in the comment box. Lays their eyes until Fiat dies. I think that's what correct is that. No, no, no, we're all doing Mullet. I actually don't think you guys are disagreeing, by the way. I've been trying to listen for

your guys' disagreement and I don't think you guys disagree. Hey, hey, hey, no hundred percent. I'm a so, so agreeing. Like, please don't get me wrong. I love it. Well, that's my favorite part of Bitcoin conversations, right? It's like, no, I'm more bullish. No, no, no. I'm more

bullish. But Greg, Greg, to that point. Like, if I may quote Michael Saylor myself, it's going up forever, Laura. And that's like the mantra now. And as my point you know, you got to sound more frustrated than that canute. It's going up forever. Yeah, yeah. Why is it going up forever? Very simply because fiats are programmed to debase when you reach four times total global debt to four times global GDP, let's just run through this. If the average coupon on that global debt is 3%, which is low, your numerator's growing at 12%.

Your denominator, total global GDP, needs to grow at 12% just to keep up with the organic growth. We haven't done 100% and forever. It never happens. And that doesn't include all these absolutely asinine modern monetary theory people that are saying, well, it's just out another $4 trillion to the U.S. deficit. Guys, mathematically programmed to debase, all right? That's all you need to know, really.

All right, sign off. We're good. We've got this off figured out everybody. Everybody is, smash by, call it today. Everybody is pretty excited about the conversation going on here. Solid topic so far. We're going to keep it rolling.

350 people live, tons of chat messages. I do, I did love, I got to give a shout out to who was that. said it was Bitcoin Leota. Bitcoin. Gotta love the Leotas. But he was the laser eyes till Fiat dies in the chat. Yeah, everybody, keep those messages coming. Smash that like, give it a share.

We're going to keep rolling. And I'm going to toss it to John. I'm going to let John drop his reason for being bullish. Dude, take it away. So we sort of hit on this. But I don't think we can hit on it enough, to be frank. And I know Michael was here last week, but the reality is, I think we'll forever look back on April 21st, 2021, the 21st day of the fourth month of the 2020, the 21st year of the century. And you simply will know that gold didn't maybe die that day, but it was killed that day.

I made the analogy that, like, you can be biased, right? So I was a biased Chicago Bulls fan, right? You see it in my sweater. But, like, you still knew that we were winning by 30. And you knew that the Bulls were winning. And I try to, like, highlight that what happened on Wednesday was really, I think, impossible for folks to really, I think, understand and probably won't for quite some time. I'll have to look back on this three, four, five, ten, twenty years because Michael was absolutely poetic. Do you want to really quick, can you just for people that don't know what happened on Wednesday?

Oh, man, I forget. Let people know what. Sure, sure. Yeah. Do you want to set the stage or do you want me to just go. No, you do it, man. You do it, man. Well, in simple, simple terms, Michael Saylor had a debate with a gold bug named Frank Juster.

Somebody check on that guy, please. Like, I don't know if we've had any check-ins for, is he tweeted? since the debate. I have tons of good info on him. So he's a Canadian. Let's leave it there. Go ahead, John. I would say they had,

I'll leave it at this. They had a debate. Certainly a lot of us here, either that are watching, listening or participating in this panel, certainly have a biased perspective. But like I said, the debate was so clear.

Michael was absolutely surgical. I drew the analogy of like Tiger Woods at like Augusta in 03, for something. I mean, it was just, it's just, it was so clear that by the end, Frank Joostra is telling people, right? He went from, from, hey, you know, Mr. Sailor's a snake oil salesman, right? And there was two things that I would note that got me incredibly bullish. One of them got the, you know, got my spine tingling, which is awkward to admit to, to the world. But the first of it is at the end of this debate, Juster's telling you, hey, my recommendation

is to buy hard assets and that includes gold real estate. I forget what else because it doesn't matter. And Bitcoin, okay? Michael went in there and he talked to gold bugs. He wasn't talking to you and me. He was talking to some folks that are getting ready for bed right now, right? Like that's who he was talking to. And the reality is he got his opponent to tell them to buy Bitcoin.

Came over. He reiterated two key points in my mind. hey, they'll tell you to put 10% of your investable assets into gold. Okay, what about the other 90%? Right. And then he's telling you, hey, this is what gold companies, various, whether they're minors or otherwise, this is what they're holding on their balance sheet. And it's not gold, right?

Like that indictment was just like, you know, it was, it was epic. It was Hollywood. It was like 1980s Rambo-like movie where good and evil is so clear, you know? And Rambo clearly comes out on top. But in closing, I mean, there was this piece and you catch it on Twitter, but Michael goes through and absolutely preempts the FUD, especially around Bitcoin, you know, mining, environmental confud, et cetera, et cetera, you know, talks about about 500,000 years of just the bloody history of gold. And what really was like Shakespearean iambic pentameter. Like, I mean, it was clear that he practiced it. It was clear he was ready for it.

I saw him kind of pointing some thoughts and notes. But I mean, he delivered that in a way that debate over, you know. It's just like strike him out, throw him out. The game was just on and over. And oftentimes I think the opponent knows he's losing before the winner knows he's winning. And in that moment, I saw that he knew he was losing and that this debate was over. And the ad hominem attacks came after that. Right.

And so I would leave you with, man, I am more bullish than ever because one of the disciples in the church of Satoshi, Mr. Michael Saylor himself absolutely. on April 21st, 2021, the day that we'll remember that gold was killed. I love it. By the way, did anybody also see his equally great, although like it was a one single punch knockout here, but there was Charlie Billo tweeted out like commodity prices over the year and like everything's up like at least double digits and then down at the bottom of a list of about 15 or 20 things.

it's gold at 3%. And Sailor retweeted him and said, it's a long list, but please make sure you read all the way to the bottom, of course, alluding to the 3% only appreciation in gold. And Spencer Schiff, his son,

replied, your brutal. Yeah, I mean, Sailor's been a wrecking ball in all of this. And I'm, I'm curious what some of your thoughts are on, on what happens to gold from here,

because it's been pretty lackluster all year. And it doesn't seem to be performing the way you might expect in these types of, this type of an environment. So I don't know. Like if anybody can jump on this and talk to what John was saying regarding the debate. But does anybody have any thoughts on the debate and or what happens to gold moving forward? what time scale yeah i mean yeah like i don't think it's going to disappear overnight but like what happens 10 years out 20 years out 30 years out first of all i i would have to say i agree with john

michael sailor's debate was fantastic and i agree with gregg he's one of the better thinkers in this space. I mean, when he first came onto the scene, it was a kind of suspicious like there has a billionaire that I haven't heard of because I hadn't before he went into Bitcoin, not a lot at least. And it turns out to be a great thinker. Have you seen the Sailor series with Robert Breedlove? It's just fantastic. And I love his all of that. And there are a lot of great thinkers in this space. And that's one of the reasons. I love it so much. Gold, gold, like, I guess Bitcoin will eat a lot of the gold market, at least short term, over the next 10 years.

I think gold will probably appreciate in dollar terms, but in Bitcoin terms, hell no. It will plummet in Bitcoin terms, of course, because Bitcoin has a long way to go still. And after it's gone all that way, it has a long way to go still. And after that, and that just keeps going. So, well, gold is a dumb rock. And it's good for jewelry, but people will still crave jewelry. And whatever. I don't, I don't care too much for dumb rocks.

So that's beautiful. What happens with all the rappers that bought all their grills? Like at what point are they try to get open dime girls? Yeah, open dime. Yeah, that would be something, right? What is that? A USB stick instead of two, Phil. So, Newt, Canute, that was beautiful.

You're right. But it's still, don't forget, it's still a $10 trillion physical market. Okay. It is. It is. So I used to trade a lot, right? Hedge funds, I was on what's called the buy side as a hedge fund. I was also a sell side trader.

And we got, we had this funny guy that was on my desk. And so each trader gets set a limit, right, is his risk exposure. And I remember one. day he stood up when the risk guy came around and said, hey, Brian, you've exceeded your limit. He goes, limit. I thought it was a target. Okay. Now think about that for a second.

Gold is only a target. That's 10 trillion. That's again a rounding error in the $900 trillion. U.S. Total financial, total addressable market. But we do have to get through it. I'm not certain we should be, you know, fighting or fighting the. the $10 trillion guys, like there's so many bigger guys out there.

And, you know, being in fixed income, I'll just tell you, fixed income comes $300 trillion. That's here. Some of that money comes in, though, right? Greg, I mean, the reality is a lot of its gold bugs are coming in with like RIA money. Look, look, look, look. It's all competing with you. It's still such a small drop in the bucket.

Disagree or agree? No, I'm saying I don't disagree with you. Okay. So let me take a step back and tell you guys as a Canadian who Frank Juster was. Frank actually is a proud Canadian who founded a company called Yorkton Securities that basically made their whole, so Yorkton Securities is an investment bank or a brokerage, you know, might like a Merrill Lynch in the U.S., much smaller, obviously, but their whole focus was on small cap miners, gold miners. He's defending a industry in Canada that's very substantial. obviously, you know, was topped in.

He mentioned he was a good friend of Larry Fink, okay, head of Black Rock. All true. The man is a philanthropist. He did admit that, you know, Sailor was right, but Sailor trounced him. Jim Richards, who is the gold bug, said, I give it to Frank Juistra. But let's just admit that Saylor made some good points. Okay, look, Jim, come on, dude. This is embarrassing that you would even admit, even.

go out. You know, everybody's true colors come out. So yes, he trounced them, okay? Sailor was a beautiful, beautiful, but I'm arguing, let's not even focus on 10 trillion. That's, again, it's both of them are hard assets to an extent. I think that gold, I think that gold is not a perfect hard assets, but it's better than Fiat. Would we agree with that? I don't even want to defend it. I'll just say this, okay? And Juster said said this. We agree on 90% of the argument. And as John said, at probably the end of it, he was admitting, you're right, Bitcoin is should be part of your hard asset allocation.

And 10% is pretty weak, right? As, as Saylor pointed out, Bitcoin or excuse me, gold miners mine gold. And then they sell it for Fiat. Gosh, that's, that's a pretty lame. So they debase or they depress the price of gold. Central banks depress the price of gold. Central banks own 77% of the price of gold. So, or excuse me, of the supply of gold.

Therefore, gold is almost fiat. Let's, let's understand that gold is almost fiat. And therefore, it is not the perfect store of value. Bitcoin is the perfect store of value. Here's what I know. This is what the argument missed. Drew just says, oh, my God, Bitcoin uses the equivalent of some number of cars, right? It uses the energy of some number of cars.

Did you know, and Sailor pointed this out, that the gold industry, mining industry, uses 20 times the energy that the Bitcoin network uses. Hey, everybody says Bitcoin's boiling the oceans. How about you just look at gold? Not to mention the tailing ponds and all the residual contaminants that come out of trying to mine this silly metal. It is over. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. I would say Fiat is boiling the oceans.

Correct. If there's anything that's destroying the planet, it's the Fiat mindset and consumerism. And this is like, Greg, you're saying a lot of clever things. But the thing is, I come from this. I look at this from a completely different angle because I'm not a trader at all by a stretch. I've like, I've had stocks once or twice in my life. just a small amount, but I've never been a, like, I've never traded in order to just trade and make money off of trading this or that asset. I come from, I look at this from a much more philosophical angle, if you will.

And I think comparing, like gold is, it's sort of the best comparison to, like the best thing in the outer world that you can compare. Bitcoin 2, but it's still an insult to Bitcoin to compare it to gold, because it's so much better than gold. So like comparing mathematics to one single element, like if you look at Bitcoin as an extra element in the periodic table, it has like the perfect properties for storing value. Okay. Can I just say one thing? Can I hug you right now? Because I love you, man.

Okay, look, look, I love you. You're totally right. But you got to understand where all the money in the world is. It's not in the hands. Yeah, yeah. No, no, but hold on a second because money is the wrong framework. Like, this is a whole new paradigm and a whole new way of interacting with each other. And a whole new, I don't think people will think about value in trading terms in that.

Like, maybe, maybe, like, the question was, why are you bullish this week? And I'm talking, like, way ahead. I'm trying to, I'm always trying to figure out what's at the end of the thought vector. But I can't help myself. Like, the properties of Bitcoin are so much better than everything that preceded it. So I just, I just don't think, like, you say that there's this and that money and that. And the energy fud, it's just so unbelievably stupid because nobody talks about the alternative cost. I just wrote an article about that where I saw a tweet where someone complained about Bitcoin using up as much energy as Switzerland.

Well, ban Switzerland. Ban the use of Switzerland for fuck sake. Switzerland is way worse and way more wasteful than Bitcoin is. You're so right. I don't get it. Okay. Yes, except guys. What did currency again?

And I tried to do this with my three chickens for a cow. Example, people need to live. And, you know, North American Indians, I'm a Canadian, North American Indians used Wampum as a means of rather than trading a, you know, maize or corn for a tomahawk. They said, okay, we'll use Wampum as the exchange rate. Look, currencies exist because they are efficient at differentiating a barter. The guy that owned three chickens for a cow, what if the guy down the street was selling four chickens for one cow?

The guy that bought three chickens for one cow, he just, he missed the boat. So currencies allow you to efficiently trade products across the world. Now, a fiat currency for global trade makes sense. My question, and I don't want to discuss this, then why is global fiat trading 30 times? the amount of global trade. Well, obviously there's a lot of speculation going on in fiat currencies, right, guys? But at the end of the day, the base value of a currency is to take the place of these three chickens for a cow concept. I love what you're saying, bro, but the money lives right now in these huge pension funds that have to compare relative value amongst different assets.

It's no different than three chickens for a cow. It sets relative value amongst different asset classes around the world. And the unit of account right now is the U.S. dollar. I believe that will change. But until it does, that's how everyone compares relative performance. Lots of money is made and lost every single day on relative performance. That's after all what every single asset class is. And I'll have more to say about this when my time comes up.

Newt, again, I want to give you a hug, dude. You are exactly the problem, not a problem. The reality is I, I'm just trying to connect the dots to get from A to B. And you're like A, B and Newt's already at Z, Z plus, okay, Z plus, okay, or Z plus is for American. I still haven't learned the alphabet in your guys this time. Greg, you better be careful, man. You're not allowed to hug people in Canada or heard. You're not right now, but on Zoom, on Zoom, man, we can.

So mug. Oh man. I love it. This is great. I'm loving this conversation. This is a lot of fun. We've got everybody in the chat is saying they're loving the panel and the rabbit holes that we've dove down so so far. So we're going to keep it going.

There's like 50 people in here. Smash that like button. Give this a share. And keep the comments coming because we're going to keep bringing them up. I got a shout out to. Who was it? Somebody, it's way far back, but somebody said rappers with lumber grills. I got a kick out of that one. I thought that was great.

So, yeah, keep them coming. And we're going to keep rolling. And we're going to toss it. Greg, it is your shot. We want to hear why you're bullish. Why don't you mute me? Why don't you mute me? Because I've already talked way too much.

But here's what I'm going to say, okay, before I get into my little spiel, the classic example of Sailor versus Juistra, do you know who you? who owns frank.com? Because that's where juicer got to start, right? You know who owns frank.com? Yeah. Of course, Michael Saylor. So he owns frank.com. If that's not the classic example of the future versus the past, I don't know what it is. Okay. So the beautiful thing, and I need to bring this up from a trader's perspective, you know that Michael Saylor started off being negative on Bitcoin, right? He thought it was a Ponzi. So credit to him for peeling the layer of the onion. and actually reversing his position.

And that's the mark of a great trader, okay? Mark of a great trader is when they realize that they're wrong and they don't stick with their negative or wrong position. They reverse that position or at least flatten it out. That's the key. So Saylor did that. He changed his mind. And then we'll talk about shift for one second.

Spencer, I love the kid, his dad, I'm not so fond of. At the end of the day, it's all theater. we got to just put this aside. That's not important. I think his son is brilliant, but what his dad's doing is playing the rest of us like a bunch of fools. Just look at Mr. Schiff's performance over the last 20 years in his gold fund. Guys, it's pathetic. And let's not even go there.

So why am I bullish? All right. I thought you were going to bring this up, Ben. And so therefore, I had two reasons I'm bullish. I was almost certain you were going to say because of our member of parliament. Oh, yes. Pierre and my wife is French-Canadian. Pierre Pau-L-Live, okay, Pau-Livre.

And I'm not sure if that is a Belgian last name in French, but my Lord, that's a tough one to say. Pierre Pau-Liv delivered a knockdown in the House of Commons in Canada, which was a thing of beauty. And he basically said, modern monetary theory is not in fact modern by any means. It's using the same practice of the last thousands of years, which is basically debasing Fiat.

There's nothing modern about it. And the man is really, really eloquent in both languages. And I will just tell you, as a Canadian, he gives me hope that there are politicians in Canada that actually understand mathematics. Okay.

Because Pierre Trudeau's son, Justin Trudeau, he clearly doesn't understand mathematics. Now, math is the base layer of language, you guys, right? Everyone who speaks mathematics can also speak their own mother tongue. Doesn't mean a Chinese person can speak English, but they understand math. It's the same thing. Mathematics is the base layer of language, and so is Bitcoin the base layer of either money or store of value. I'll argue store of value. So that's my first point.

And Ben, I'm just going to bring it up because I was certain that was your point. And you didn't do it. So I needed a second one. So if you want to say something there, I'll turn off. Go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to quickly say that if people haven't seen this, there is just an absolutely incredible, I don't know what to address. More of a rant almost from of Pierre in the House of Commons where he goes through a historical context.

of debasement of various different countries and how it has played out for them throughout history. And then he says, well, that could possibly happen here. And he starts saying how the finance minister says that she is not believing in modern monetary theory, but he then contrast that with their actions, which seems to suggest. that they very much do believe in some flavor of modern monetary theory, which is basically right there it says, right? What they bought 80 something percent of the amount of money. What was about share bought by central bank, 80 percent of the federal debt, of the new federal

debt or deficit, right? Crazy. Now, the beautiful thing that also happened is some knucklehead from the opposing party got up in the middle of the speech and happened and interrupted the Speaker of the House goes, excuse me, Ms. Speaker, do we have to take notes? Because if this is a history lesson, I need to take notes. And I just said to myself, oh my God, the guy was from Kingston, Ontario, which is a voting area. I just said, anyone who lives in Kingston that voted that knucklehead into parliament

should be absolutely ashamed that that's the best thing that he could come up with. Am I going to have to take notes? Because if I have to take notes and learn from history, and it was just insulting as a Canadian that the opposition party is making jokes about this. So keep rocking, Pierre. I know that Jeff Booth knows him. I know that the guy's a bitcoinser behind the scenes. But remember, it's difficult for a senior federal politician if your name's not Cynthia

Loomis to come out and say, I love Bitcoin. It'll happen in Canada. And my, I want this man to be the person that does it. But if it's not him, someone else will do it. Yeah. I think, I think it's becoming more acceptable. We're seeing, we're seeing politicians around the world a lot in the states. We've seen a couple mayors come out and say that they're, you know, they're looking to put it into the city's treasury.

I'd love to see Pierre come out and just say, you know what? This is kind of what we need. We need. And he says it in, in this speech, he says that. We need a return to sound money. If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend you go check it out. You can find it on Twitter. I've retweeted it.

A bunch of other big corners have retweeted it. But look them up. Pierre, I'm not even, I'm going to butcher the last time. Tough. It's a Puelleiv, okay, Puellev. And that's tough. Poiliev. It's all good.

Pierre Pee, okay? Pierre Rochard and Pierre Pee need to get on and discuss mathematics. Yeah. Yeah, the beautiful thing. As you said, people need to look at it because he is basically calling out the MMTers. Now, MMT has to happen because there's no other solution. That is mathematical certainty that MMT has to happen. Okay.

That's what we've dug our, that's the hole we've dug ourselves. So don't have your children saving in Fiat. Fiat is programmed to debase. And Pierre is basically calling that out, okay? A beautiful thing. I believe that Jeff Booth, another Canadian, who's written an incredible book, called The Price of Tomorrow. He knows Pierre.

And I think that if anyone has Pierre's year, I think it's Jeff Booth. And I'm excited about that. Okay. So, yeah, there is hope for my kids. And Canada, you know, we're an energy rich, natural resource rich nation. And I want Canada to embrace Bitcoin because Bitcoin is digital energy. And any nation that's rich in energy, whether it's hydro, electric energy, whether it's natural resource energy, fossil fuels, you're going to get paid in

Bitcoin someday, guys. Why? Because Bitcoin will be the unit of account for energy, because energy and Bitcoin, Bitcoin is digital energy. Very simple. Russia does not want to hold US dollars. They do not want to sell their valuable natural resources for worthless fiat. There'll be a time where the Kremlin says, you know what, I'd rather get Bitcoin. Bitcoin's digital energy for my natural energy. This is the time when the U.S. dollar will lose reserve asset status. It won't lose reserve currency status. It will lose reserve asset status. So let's not get into that too much. My second point, so it's 620, I'm going to summarize really quickly. Goldman Sachs, Okay, Goldman is like revered on the street.

Goldman Sachs. They started adding Bitcoin in their asset attribution last week. They compare all other asset classes to the performance of Bitcoin. And Bitcoin blows everything out of the water by such a large margin, not just on a return basis, but also on something called a sharp ratio. Don't want to get too granular, but a sharp ratio when basically divide. the return by the volatility of that return and returns a number that compares the volatility of an asset to its total return. It's nothing more than risk adjusting a return if you believe volatility is the purest measure of risk, which I don't, but it doesn't matter. It's called

a sharp ratio. Bitcoin is so far ahead of every single other asset in what they measure that every single portfolio manager that follows Goldman just lost 10 years of their life. And I'm using that from Zero Hedge. Okay. Zero Hedge came out with a brilliant tweet that said every single portfolio manager just lost 10 years of their life because Bitcoin is now in the attribution index as measured by Goldman Sachs. Like it or not, Knoot, like it or not, everybody out there, the big money still is in institutional pensions, institutional investors that follow benchmarks like Goldman's attribution analysis. And when that happens, CalPERS, who has 60% of their portfolio in equities and perhaps 30% in

fixed income bonds that are guaranteed to lose money after inflation, that includes high bonds are guaranteed to lose money after inflation, they better be thinking about assets that they can replace the certainty of fixed income losing money on a real basis. Okay. Very simple. And Calpers and BlackRock, which manages, I think BlackRock manages seven trillion themselves. God darn it.

Can you imagine if Black Rock decides, hey, we need one. percent in Bitcoin. One asset manager, $7 trillion, they flick the switch and say, we're starting to buy Bitcoin. I'm super bullish because Goldman, who is a steward of the street,

all the money still lives. I'm afraid that's where it is. It's not with us plebes, okay? It is in the big money pension funds of the world. And when Goldman starts measuring a new asset called Bitcoin that shows performance that blows everything so far out of the water,

there'll be people out there, including Scott Minard, who say, you know what, I thought it was going to 400,000. I just realized that it's going to 10 times 400,000. Very simple, supply and demand for a scarce asset,

21 million, math and code, buy it, put it away, and don't look at its price. It's a rounding error right now. A rounding error. we're getting overly analytic on something that has the potential to go so much higher.

Nobody knows and nobody can put that. Okay. So don't overthink this, ladies and gentlemen. I wanted to pull something up because you were talking about sharp ratio. And this was, I guess, a quote from Michael Saylor or a paraphrasing of Michael Saylor. He was talking about gold. I imagine this was during the debate. He said in the last year, Bitcoin ups,

up 693% versus gold 4.66% last full calendar year. Sharp ratio is 4.7 versus 0.43. Over five years, $1 invested into Bitcoin, $132 versus gold, $1.33. Gold lost 99% of your wealth. Over a decade, Bitcoin is running at 190% every year versus 1.65% for gold. interesting. So that's it. That's the announcement.

Is that bad? That bad? Sorry. I'm not doing the 32 years of Wall Street trading here. So are you asking me seriously, Johnny? No, no. No, of course not. But I think what's important sometimes is to recognize how easy this decision is.

I think the reason why the gold play is such a profound piece, even though it's not necessarily a large part of the market. market is really similar to why something like Tesla or when Walmart announces next month because they're behind and they got to throw a Hail Mary pass and Bitcoin is that for them. But what I think is important is people understand what Tesla is. People can resonate with Tesla. It makes a different headline for mainstream. It de-risks things.

Gold is somewhat similar, I think, in a similar way. People understand it, right? Whether it's like someone in India who doesn't understand what Bitcoin is, like they understand what gold. is, right? Like, my mom understands gold, man. My mom doesn't even know the computer, right? And so I think like when you start to understand like Bitcoin taking over gold, I think its headline actually means more for the monetary energy that'll flow in after. I don't disagree. You know, I come from a background as a reformed public accountant, right? Like I did the, the, the markets in a little bit of a different perspective in terms of, you know, translating through trust, which, you know, is the, you know, is the, you know, antithesis of, you know, my hat here. But the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the important over overtaking gold is really, really, I think, you know, subjective, but still incredibly, like, understated. I talked about this. I've had this conversation with Tina and others about, like, the first

trojan's the hardest fucking trillion. Like, um, and like, I think going from one to 10 is so much easier than it is from zero to one. And going from 10 to 100 is easier than zero to 10 because of network effects. A lot of what Newts highlighting in is S-curve to J-curve theory, if you will. And so I love what you're saying, but no, I'm not kidding. Or I was kidding. I absolutely know that that's absolutely ridiculous. It's part of why Sailor's trouncing was so true, right? It wasn't just math. It wasn't just econ. It wasn't just history. It wasn't just emotion. It wasn't just grassroots versus gloom and doom. It was, yo, you lost 99% of your wealth, right?

That's not a Democrat, Republican or right? Who was the optimist and who was the pessimist, right? Wasn't it sad? Well, that's always the case, though, right? No, no, no, but wasn't it sad? Don't you understand the government's going to do this to us? Don't you understand? This is how it's always been.

Isn't it? It's just fud. And look, again, it was future versus the past and it was just a trouncing. 100%. Canoe, did you want to tag in on any of this? What are you thinking about what Greg was chatting about? Yeah, Greg's rant made me think of a couple of things. A couple of fundamentals.

Like when we're talking mathematics and when we're talking the example you gave early on with a cow and the three chickens and what Fiat money really is and such, you have like on one hand you have mathematics which perfectly describes what's going on in the objective reality and on the other hand you have praxeology which is the study of human action and it's the great lost subject in all public schools and it's lost in public schools for a reason because public schools don't really like praxeologists because they tell too much of the truth so that's what the austrian school of economics is based on like that all values you is subjective and that people do stuff in order to remove a felt uneasiness. That's why anyone

does anything consciously. So what fear is? Are you familiar with a children's book called The Emperor's New Clothes by a Danish author called H.C. Anderson or Hans Christian Anderson? I am familiar. A hundred percent I've heard of Hans Christian Anderson, but no, I'm not familiar with the book. The emperor's new clothes is about a big fat old emperor in a kingdom in Europe that has

he has employed the most expensive tailor in the world to saw him a new dress for his march down the square where all the people in the kingdom will come and see him and it just so happens that this tailor, this is a very condensed version

this tailor He tells him that this is the finest silk you can get, so it's completely transparent. People can see it, but it's so fine that you can't see the thread. And he ends up walking the streets naked, believing that he has clothes on. And this is what Fiat money is. And all the people share him on and tell him what a nice dress.

he has on until a child points out that he has no clothes on. So that's the essence of the story. And I love the story so much because I always say that you only need two books in this world, and that's the Emperor's New Clothes and 1984 by Orwell. Because 1984 describes what happens if you keep on believing that the Emperor has new clothes on. But he has no clothes on, and that's what Fiat money is. it requires us all to believe that it has value. But look at what happened in India.

I think it was like three or four years back. It was around the last Bitcoin boom. When overnight or over a weekend, they ban the use of the two highest denominations of physical cash in India. So the thousand rupee bill and the 500 rupee bill was banned. And you had to, they announced the law on the Friday and you had until three o'clock to go to the bank and change it all for, or put it all in a bank account to change it for smaller denominations.

And of course, you had no time to do that. And the law was implemented on the Monday. So you couldn't do it during the weekend. But what happened to the actual bills after this law was imposed was that they still had value, that just had a little less value. A 500 rupee bill was worth about 300 rupees afterwards, and a thousand rupee bill about 600 or something like that. I don't know the exact. But that's the thing with money.

It's just what we, and you could use them. And as long as people believe that they had some value, they had some value. And that's the thing with all types of money, including Bitcoin. It depends on our beliefs in it. And what differentiates Bitcoin from every, type of currency that preceded it, it's that all you need to believe is that one and one equals two, like that mathematics work basically, and that's like cryptography works, the SHA 256 algorithm works. And you need to believe one more thing, and that is that game theory works, and that people will

act in their own self-interest. Those are the only two things that that, that makes Bitcoin work and so there's no that that's not a very high threshold and sooner or later everyone will realize this and I know there's a point sometime in the future as I've said before where where things where number go up turns into number go absolutely bonkers because Because when everyone, we add more people to this every day. And we add more people not only that own Bitcoin and hold some Bitcoin and trade Bitcoin and hold a Bitcoin wall, but we add people like me every day that are completely mad and think that the price will go up forever.

We're added too, you know, in the Hodluss of last resort. And we're adding more Gregs and more Johns and more Ben's and more. Michael sailors and more Jeff Boots by the second. And we're shedding our telebs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was actually thinking of bringing a bottle of olive oil with my whiskey here. That was the meme of the day, right? John, I don't I want to, can I give one one shout out?

Look, I think I mentioned this. I can't remember. Did I mention, you know, Ross Stevens from Nydig. and when he described, and it may have been Breedlove writing behind the scenes, I'm not going to tell you whether it was or not. But when Ross Stevens described, money has always been a technology for transferring or storing rather. Money has always been a technology for storing the value of work, energy, or time expended today for consumption in the future. You think about Bitcoin versus Fiat currency. Think about when you were 20 years old, at least when I was.

20 years old and I was on a hot roof pounding nails, asphalt shingles into a roof. And I may have earned 20 bucks on that day, 20 Fiat dollars, 25 years ago. What's it worth now versus the energy I expended that day to make an improvement on that house? That $20 years ago may be worth a buck 50 right now. And I don't even need it right now. I need it in another 20 years. Okay. So the funny thing is that Bitcoin is actually the purest form of storing the first law of thermodynamics, which is conservation of energy because it's got fixed supply. Newt, Canute, I'm sorry, you said it eloquently. All right. It is the store of value.

Now the currency, I'm going to take issue with that, is to facilitate barter. there's a way it's way more efficient to figure out how much one chicken costs and that's a it's it's it's it's one chicken costs this much pretty well anywhere in your neighborhood rather than one third of a cow okay that's just a better way of doing things it doesn't mean that that currency stores your value it means that bitcoin stores your value and the two systems can exist in parallel and they better because if they don't that's going to be very dangerous. So all I will say is, again, I love what you're saying because you and I both and John and Ben, it's about mathematics. Very simple, the base layer of language, guys. You can't mess with

the base layer of language. I love it. John, do you want to add anything? There is some level of poetry and, you know, we joke on Sunday Satoshi service about some of the religious parody because, you know, if you're going to get accused of it, have some fun with it. But But, you know, like when you're, so like, you know, I've been fortunate enough to like kind of live on both sides of like the world's economic paradigm, if you will. I grew up in an incredibly poor circumstance and my kids won't have to deal with that. And so, you know, when you're like less economically advantaged, you're constantly thinking about money, like how can I make more money in whatever terms you want to think about that, right? Even if you don't understand Bitcoin or sound money. How can I get more money?

how can eat more money. When your wealth starts to accumulate, I see this universally. You start to focus more on time, right? And like the beauty of Bitcoin is that it actually is, it comes to the intersection of money and time, right? Like if you get into like astrophysics, you start to understand space is time. And you really start to understand money being time. And you understand that Bitcoin is the only thing that actually solves that, right? Like that's where truly understanding Bitcoin is. Right. Like if you ask the question to, to someone about space time. It's just like the natural question for them to understand it.

Neil deGrasse Tyson does a really great job of laying this out. I promise not to go too far down this path. But it's like, yo, like, if I were to ask you meet me at 7 o'clock, what's the next natural question? Where? Right? Where at 7 o'clock? If I asked you to meet me at Ben's house, you say, what's the next natural question? When?

Right. And so, you know, when you're talking about, and as Michael Saylor lays it out, is you, Greg, and you lay it out in your book too, right? When you're trading the most scarce asset, your time, and you're trading that ultimately for some form of currency or some form of money. Like, Bitcoin is the only thing that no matter how much the economic paradigm shifted for me, until I found Bitcoin, I didn't find some sense of relief. Like, it was the ability for me to take a deep breath knowing that, okay, there is a place that I can actually store wealth for my family in the future, right? And like, you know, as I hear you lay that

out and Ben, I see what you pulled up there on the back end of that, or pulled into the screen there. And so, you know, as I think of Bitcoin, I think about it as the intersection of time and money, much less, much like space is time. And so, and that's the beauty of being able to carry that forward into the future. I would say that, oh, sorry. I was just going to quickly tell people on the same wavelength of Bitcoin and the intersection of Bitcoin and time, there's a really great article written by Gigi called Bitcoin is time. So you can just look that up. Just look up Bitcoin is time, Gigi, G.G.

G.I. And it's great. And there's also an audible read by Guy Swan on the same page. Or if you just go to Bitcoin audible, you can search that up. It's a great read. But I would go one step further and say that Bitcoin is condensed time. Because it's like the sum of all all the hours. all the working hours of not only the working hours,

but all hours of all human beings that are living now, that have lived before us and produced things of value for us in this day. And that all the people that we live before the sun eats us at one point, like four billion years from now, all that time divided by 21 million. That's what Bitcoin is worth. And we're better. And it might be worth even more if we, if we like go to the different different solar systems in another it's actually it's one of the

times that i really started to come to a new fundamental understanding of bitcoin of understanding time right like what time is one directional the blockchain is one direction right you understand its immutability yeah yeah it's censorship resistance yeah yeah it's absolutely integral to to the system but uh i also i i we talk a lot about store of value but i have a slight problem with the with the term because you can't store value since value is subjective. So, so, so that this is the, and this is where things get really weird. If value is energy, you can value is energy. Value is energy.

It always is. There's another phrase that makes no sense to me, digital energy. Because like, I get the energy reference, but not the digital. Like, because everything on the internet, that it's digital energy. And like the energy, this is a very funny thing because it's another part where Bitcoin sort of bridges between praxeology and mathematics

or physics and something subjective. Because it sort of glues the two worlds together, like human incentives and human action and why we do stuff actually connected to the physical, world to actual energy and thermodynamics and all of this you talk i wrote an article quite early on about bitcoin and thermodynamics and i find this so fascinating and i think it's very connected to all parts of how big bitcoin function like the the knowing is owning concept like when you uh in bitcoin

knowing your private key is owning that bitcoin and there's there's no physical thing to own And then you start questioning what true ownership really is. Ask yourself, what things in your life do you truly own? And if you question ownership, it's like, yeah, I own my car, but it could be taken away by someone pointing a gun at me. And I own my stuff. It could all be taken away at some point by someone using force, except for my Bitcoin, because there's no way for the,

for them to know that I even have them if I have them in my head. So when knowing becomes owning, you remove most of the, like you disarm people from taking your stuff. The more, the higher percentage of your net worth that is actually in your head, the harder it is to coerce you, into doing stuff. And like, violence will not pay off in the same way as it used to.

In the future, violence will not give you as good results as it used to do. Not only that, but violence, you won't know if you've truly extracted all the value that one holds through violence. Exactly. And this is what keeps me optimistic because there's a lot of things to be pessimistic about. Just as Greg says, the dollar will probably

be around for quite some time. But all the other fiat currencies would die. Maybe the euro and the yuan will stay a bit longer. But all the other ones are dead. The Swedish corona here, I laugh at it. It's so stupid. It's just a euro bill with another

zero on it. The Canadian moose shackle is well. Yeah, the Canadian dollar. We're in trouble, guys. We are in trouble. But to that point, all the fee of currencies will die. And the dollar will probably with the most longevity, but it's nothing compared to Bitcoin. It's still something that can be taken away. Not only can it be stolen from you, your dollar bills, your your bank, become bankrupt and you're like your central bank and dilute the value it it's a lousy it's a lousy store of value and it's a lousy not lousy it's it's it's it's and it's

mathematically certain and here's you know it it it can be taken away from you by force or it's taken away from you over time yeah by debasing okay so i have everything i love everything you say i just want to add i'm an engineer the proof of work function which is nesting energy, that's what Bitcoin is to me. Okay, I'm not telling you, you have to, you have to visualize it that way. But for me, it's digital energy because it's proof of work function is solved using energy. Okay, that's just. Yeah, and I agree with that.

Like, I like to visualize it as a mathematical battery that can store energy. You write about this in your book bylaw. Yeah, yeah. It absolutely knocks me off my chair. Yeah. You can put electricity in and get a certain part of the world's first digital pie out, which is a part of a fixed number. That's what you get.

That makes you able to store all that energy because you can trade it for something else at a later point. And like a perfect money is a good money across time and space. Bitcoin is arguably better over time than over space. It's still very, very good over space, especially using the Lightning Network. But time is much more important than space. Like the three dimensions of space, what we have right now is the Earth.

And that's x squared. amount of square kilometers. I don't know the exact figure, but it's a limited amount of space. Time, on the other hand, seems endless because we have multiple generations of humans waiting to take over. And you can use Bitcoin to dub your children into nights, just like the feudal lords used to do, and like pass on well. health India. Like there are old feudal families still living here in this country that have a

shit ton of money, all of them, and they all live off of wealth that was inherited from back in the like 15th and 16th century and stuff. So but now everyone has that ability. Everyone's the king that that is able to dub his children into princesses. and actual princess and princesses and lords and ladies. You just have to give them the private keys when you die somehow. It's so cool to see. And I love, again, beckoning back to the early analogy you made of Bitcoin doesn't just potentially store all value of everyone existing right now, but all value of everybody's effort for every generation moving forward from here on in.

and behind and through history. But now it's so much easier to effectively and safely pass down that economic power to generations of your family without having it siphoned away from them. It's truly, it's groundbreaking. And I think we see, again, a lot less of these wealth gaps that were achieved. through the perversions of fiat debasement and a lot more of families that are able to truly pass something down through the generations. And the ones that act irresponsibly, seeing not just consequences for themselves, but for generations thereafter. See, Ben, this is really one of the things that I try to hit home. So in the parody that is service on Sunday, like these are one of things.

So when you're young, you're worried about the judgment of your parents. you have kids and I know this is kind of a new thing for you. Congrats again, man. But you start to think about the judgment of your children. Right? What will they think? What is they going to matter? And so like this is one you just can't mess up.

Like with the information you have, you can't mess this up because you're going to have to answer to your kids, right? You know, I had the opportunity to own Bitcoin. Instead, I bought, dare I say it, you know,

8,000 other shit coins or dare I say I bought gold or dare I say I bought some real estate with property taxes that are absolutely so crippling that I couldn't even hold the real estate for you until you're old enough to manage it. Whatever, right? Like I bought GameStop. Oh my God, man, don't hurt my feelings here. But, you know, I find that to be one of the most important things because what's happened right now, one of the unique things that's talking about being a Bitcoin dad with two young children is that like this is the first generation of like Bitcoin kids, right? Like these will be the first non-orange pilled owners of Bitcoin. They're just going to be indoctrinated, not orange-pilled, right? And so, like, I think the shift is going to be pretty

monumental, both culturally, both from a technology adoption standpoint as well. I'm not trying to bear it just as a technology of standpoint. But this is one of those really, really powerful, I think, thoughts that I have as I start to think about 10, 20, 30 years of the future here. So I have three children, and my youngest is 21, all right? So you need to, This is important to me. John, I went on your profile. I honestly, I hadn't been connected to you. And I'm so thankful that I met you as one member of this incredible Bitcoin community.

And I retweeted your pin tweet, which says, I'm paraphrasing. But something like if I told you to buy Bitcoin, I'm trying to tell you, I love you. And that's deep to me with three children who actually are. enjoying my journey in Bitcoin Twitter as much as I am by the number of people that are giving me shout out. I stayed away from it forever, man. I can't believe I stayed away from my tribe for this long. Well, here's the coolest thing, right?

I'm 57. Like, I grew up. I think I might have said this on the, I forget podcast sort of meld into other podcasts, but guys, I graduated 1986 McGill University. I'd never used a personal computer because they did not exist. I did not have an iPhone that had more power in its hands than put two. men on the moon when I was four years old. Okay, that iPhone, computing power of that iPhone, I remember seeing Neil Armstrong on TV,

on a fuzzy TV, jumping out. Okay. And you guys got to understand. I'm 57. I got three young kids. So I'm trying to, I'm not going to say indoctrinate them. I'm going to, I'm trying to teach them the value of energy. And as an engineer, this is the most perfect example.

that I have. And Canute, I'm not telling you, you're wrong. Believe me, I have a ton to learn in the space, but it's the best thing that man has ever developed in my lifetime and anybody in the past. Gold sufficed, but it's not perfect, and it's not even close to perfect. And Michael Saylor, thank you for taking down a Canadian gold bug who admits that 10% is about how much you should own in gold. My God, how much conviction is that? Like, gosh, that is sick. That is sick that you say that, well, I believe in something so much that you better own 10%. Come on. 10% is more than what gold companies are actually holding. Oh, well, gold companies are taking it and converting into Fiat. Gold companies are succeeding. So, so look, look, look, look, guys, you guys have been

wonderful. Ben, I'm not sure where you want this to go from here. I don't need to jump off. I just want to say thank you to the Bitcoin community for continuing to teach me new stuff every day, including on this podcast. Canute, I'm going to think in things in your terms. I'm not even going to worry. Bitcoin's going to gap from whatever it is today, 50,000. I guess it'll gap to what, $5 million. And then we'll just, we'll start from there, right?

There'll be a gap daddy that starts at $5 million. And Saylor mentioned it himself as soon as one central bank comes out and announces they own Bitcoin, that thing will rip. All right, guys. And it'll be as an old trader that I would, it will be a fels, excuse me, a face melting rally. Okay. Anyone who doesn't own it will get their face melted off.

And that could happen. So don't ever be short. That's all I can say. The gap happens at one sat per three, $200,000 chickens. I think that's when it happens. I, I, yeah, I think now is a good time to. kind of have closing thoughts. Greg,

I don't know if you want to add anything to the thoughts that you just dropped here or okay, where I'm getting thumbs up. I want to add a closing thought here and then I'll pass it to Canute and then John. So we're again,

I really like this final kind of idea that we've been touching on of the ability of Bitcoin to basically be a mechanism to store the the efforts of humanity as a whole throughout all of time.

And I think that that results in a return to an old mindset that we haven't seen a lot of, especially in our current Fiat age. This is the basilica in Barcelona. And construction of it was started in 1852. by Gowdy. He died in 1926. He knew damn well. It wasn't going to be finished in his lifetime.

But construction went forward anyways. In 2015, October 2015, they stated that construction is 70% complete, 70% complete. And I've been there and the thing is beautiful. But I love this idea of not simply building things just for us. in the current time for now, but for building monuments for humanity to enjoy well into the future and for future generations to enjoy, which is just the exact opposite of the environment that I personally have grown up in. The entire generation before was focused on pulling value from future generations into their own to live on it and to thrive on it at the cost

of an entire generation that weren't even born yet. They had no regard for it. And now, so I was just going to say, yeah, yes, sorry for interrupting you, but the past generations, it was not their fault. They were fooled into this kind of behavior. True.

Yeah, it was, it was facilitated through certain means, but, Ben, keep blaming the boomers, man. Let's get to hear with that. There are some excellent Bitcoin boomers. You, Tina, and the funny thing is, you know what's funny about the Ben? I'm sorry, we're interrupting. But boomers that are actually on that, that have been orange pill, they're on the Bitcoin chain. They will make fun of boomers the hardest.

Like the boomer gold bucks. But I like for you're going with this, Ben, so please take it. Gary, Gary Leland is also a great Bitcoin boomer. I can't wait until Bitlock boom in August. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, like, I mean, the whole general idea of shifting from a mentality of siphoning wealth from future generations moving into the antithesis of that,

which is creating a system that allows us to have mannerisms and habits that not only enrich and push us in better directions, but provide more for future generations, I think is a beautiful thing. And I'm just glad it's here. That's all I have to say about that. So I think what I'll do I'll jump to Canute and then we'll get John for final thoughts. Yes. Every innovation and every tool that mankind ever came up with has the same purpose. And that is to save someone time somewhere. If it's the inventor or if it's someone else, it's there to save them time to reduce TDR.

labor and save them time to remove some uneasiness somewhere. Bitcoin is the ultimate time-saving tool because it's like a pie which everyone can get a piece of that grants you access to all the other time-saving tools. And it facilitates trade and it's just completely awesome. said, as I said before, it's all the efforts and all the tools and all the inventions of historic times, of the present and of the future combined and divided by 21 million. That's what we're looking at. So you cannot be, no one is bullish enough on this thing. It is so much, so much bigger than the internet itself and so much bigger than the internet itself and so much bigger

than everything else we ever invented. So you're all too bearish. Shame on you. Go figure it out. I think that's a great cap off for you, Canute. You're all too bullish. Shame on you. I wish I could hear that, man.

I just have like capsule Dell yelling in my ear. F no, 200 sat, $200,000 per set. Was that 63? Now, that's what I hear. So I didn't catch the end part. No, I'm kidding. That was awesome, man. Thanks for making me smarter. John, any final thoughts that you have for the episode?

Honestly, I think it was such one, Ben, super honor, man. Thanks for saving me like dozens and dozens and dozens of hours on helping people set their hardware wallets by just sending them to your YouTube channel. So talking about time saving, I'd be remiss by not sending you a quick thank you for that. But I'll joke an aside, man, super honored to hang out with really, really beautiful, like, thoughts and minds and people. And so one of the coolest things about being in the Bitcoin community is you kind of get to have arguments about almost nothing because you agree about so much with some of the

smartest people on the planet. And so, you know, I would just tell you, you know, I really do believe it. If someone's told you to buy Bitcoin, that was their way of telling you, I love you. They just didn't know how to say it. And so, you know, I do think I'm more convinced every day that this is the most noble of causes. And, you know, as a dad, you know, who's focused on trying to raise some non-fiat, but really curious children, it's impossible for me not to kind of have, you know, this, this emphatic, like, fashion, or excuse me, this emphatic passion to kind of share and help

to prepare them for a world that they'll have to understand Bitcoin to be fully prepared for. And so, yeah, this is a lot of fun. Just a couple of final thoughts for perhaps some of those that are getting ready to raise some non-fiat kids out there. I love it. Thank you so much. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. I like how deep we got on some of these subjects. I really enjoy the conversation, everybody bouncing ideas off each other. And again, thank you to everybody in the chat. Can I, can I?

Yeah, I thought I had, do I have one last chance of saying something? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I love it. Guys, okay, guys, so thank you so much for having me. I'm going to tell you a story looking backwards, okay? And this involves my granddad who was involved in two worlds. World Wars. And in the first world war, he was a fighter pilot in a sop with camel. So you guys remember the Snoopy cartoon where Snoopy is flying in a, so a saup with camel is a biplane,

two wings. And he's flying over Italy. My granddad is flying over Italy. And he has a German fighter pilot in his sights. And the German fighter puts his hands up and points at his machine gun on the front of his plane, indicating that the machine gun is jammed. So my granddad points down to the ground and they both fly down and land in a field in Italy. And the German pilot jumps out of his fighter cockpit with his pistol in the air, drops his pistol on the ground, disarmed. My granddad runs over, picks the pistol off the ground, runs over to the front of the German fighter, rips the machine gun off the front of the fighter, throws the machine gun in the back seat of his Soapwith Camel, or the front seat, to be honest, because it doesn't matter,

throws it there, shakes the German pilot's hand and says, I'll kill you legitimately in the sky, but I will not kill an unarmed man. Now, they were fighting on opposite sides of a philosophy, but there was honor and freedom and both World Wars, my granddad, fought in. He was awarded the Order of the British Empire. I grew up with a German machine gun in my basement from World War I, okay, that we ended up donating to the Canadian War Museum. My granddad did not fight like that for fiat currency maniacs at the central bank to debase the future of my children. So I'm going to bring the past into the future.

My granddad would have been a bitcoiner. Why? Because he believed in freedom. Bitcoin is freedom of speech. Bitcoin is math and code. Freedom of speech. Bitcoin is truth and it's freedom of investment. please take John and Canutes and Ben's advice for your children and think of my granddad. Okay. He didn't shoot an unarmed man out of the sky. They went down, shook hands and said, guys, we'll do it on honest terms. We are not fighting on honest terms right now, okay? Bring it home for your kids in honest terms.

math and code 21 million base layer of language please don't let these central bankers hoodwink us any longer okay it's for our children and thank you so much for having me john i am a huge fan canute i can't wait to read your books bitcoin twitter and ben i'm learning stuff every single day i only think back growing up with a machine gun from World War I in my basement, hey, that means something, okay? This is not guys like American Hoddle and all these guys give service to our country. They don't give service to our country so they can just destroy it with this thing called Fiat. We need to be accountable and Bitcoin is the first and most accountable unit of account that I've ever seen.

Thank God. And we're optimists. We're not pessimists. We're optimists. So thank you for having me. I love it. That was great. I think every episode of BTC sessions should end with a false story. I think that would be fantastic.

But guys, I will say once again, thank you all for joining me. Awesome chatting with you all. Thank you everybody in the chat. Thank you to the hundreds and hundreds of people that have been in here watching, listening, commenting, and engaging. It's been a blast and it always is. This happens every Friday. Canute, Greg, John, thank you again.

I'm going to cut your audio and video right now, but I'll stick around for a minute after we go offline just to say a quick goodbye, but if you do have to run, no worries. And everybody else here, guys, what a ride. What a good time. Always the best part of my week. So much fun chatting with great Bitcoiners. I couldn't ask for more.

This is my job. What the hell? It's great. But as always, please, please do hit like. subscribe, share. All of those things. Honestly, they help so much. And lots of people have been doing it. I've been noticing more and more people watching. And it's fantastic. It bumps these, these episodes and this content in front of so many more people when you do that. So share it out everywhere. Preach the good word of the sessions that are happening here. Really enjoy these rips.

As always, you can also help the show in another way. You can hit up the sponsors I mentioned down below. Ledon, Cobo, bit refill, Bill Fottle, all linked in the show notes. And if you really loved

what you saw, you can always hit me up with a Bitcoin Lightning Network tip. Maybe it'll go into my sons and daughters college funds here. Maybe that'll be my tip in account here.

But yeah, tipin. I'm at BTC sessions. And I'll help them build a better future. But anyways, guys, thank you so much for being here. As always,

I have been Ben. This has been your daily session. Have a wonderful day or evening wherever you may be. I'll see you guys next time for your daily session.