BTC Sessions - Why Are We Bullish? ep 120 SPECIAL GUESTS Max Keiser - Stacy Herbert - American Hodl - Gigi

Episode Date: November 27, 2020

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Welcome, welcome, everyone to yet another episode of Why Are We Bullish? I have got a hell of a panel today, super excited about it. As per usual, this is done live. So anything can happen. So just a quick message from my good friend Bill O'Reilly, in case technical difficulties do occur. Just a quick little word here. We'll do it live. Okay.

We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. Don't know if that's going to happen, but we shall see. Anyways, guys, thank everybody for joining me. There's already 60 people watching live. If you can, smash that like button.

Give it a share. The more you do that, the more eyeballs this gets in front of. And we'll just get a quick look at what's going on right now. So we should have it right here. Hopefully you guys are seeing my screen. Right now we're sitting around $16,790 bucks. One U.S. dollar will get you $5,956 Satoshi's. 88.36% of all Bitcoin has been mined.

Keep in mind 90% by the end of next year. So stack those stats while you still can. 80s gets you into the next block. One hour is going to run you about 19s. and one sapabyte anything beyond. So maybe move some transactions while you can. Before we dive into the panel, of course, quick shout out to sponsors of the show, leaden.io.

This is where you can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different services. Of course, they've saved my ass on a few occasions when I needed dollars, but I didn't want to sell my Bitcoin because that's taxable and because I was worried about buying back in at a higher price. So you can check out all their services. Links down below if you opt to get a loan or anything like that. They'll give you 25 bucks into your sales. savings account. Up next, the legend at crypto cloaks. I've got to give it to these guys.

These guys have been making incredible fucking Bitcoin swag and it's flying off the shelves and their printers are going burr. So check them out. They've got Black Friday deals too. So use that Black Friday promo code, all one word and they'll get 10% off for that. Cobo Vault, of course, I love it. It's air-gapped. 100% air-gapped and everything's done via QR code, keeping your keys safe and offline. They have Bitcoin, only firmware, highly recommend. Make sure you switch to that. And it works with my favorite wallets.

I use it with Wasabi and Blue on mobile. So check them out. And they've also got their Black Friday deal going for another four days here. You can get 15% off. And finally, if you're living on Bitcoin like me, because I'm all fucking in, I can't be any more all in than I am. I make all my money in Bitcoin. But I need to eat.

I need gas and I need to do some Christmas shopping. So Bit refill lets me do that. Head over to Bit refill if you are living on. Bitcoin like me or you just maybe you're feeling a little high time preference at the moment and you need to pick something up. And with that, I'm going to start bringing in our guests. All those links are in the show notes, by the way. So we're going to welcome in Gigi.

We're going to welcome in Max and Stacey. And we're going to welcome in American Hoddle. We're all here. Everybody, welcome to the show. How's everybody doing? Great. Hoddles in and out. He's got a show.

shitty audio. You can blame him for the delay starting. He'll be in and out in Hoddle style. But basically, everybody, welcome. We're going to be telling everyone why we're bullish. We're going to laugh in the face of any type of dip. And we're just going to get rolling anybody who's new to the show. Effectively, the format here is we're each going to drop a reason while we're bullish and we're going to riff on that reason and then move on. Hoddle's back in. How are you doing, man? Are you here? I'm back, man. Can you hear me? Yeah.

I got you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. We've already got 90 people watching live. So guys, again, smash that thumbs up button. Give this a share.

Welcome all. I'm going to get this thing rolling. We're going to talk about why we're bullish. And my reason for being bullish this week is the level of cope that I'm seeing from the usual suspects on Twitter. I love it. It means that it's a delicious dip to gobble up. You're seeing Peter Schiff losing his mind. You're seeing Neuryl Rabini tweeting again.

You're seeing Francis Coppola tweeting stories about the Bitcoin crash when we're up like 134% year to date. Nobody can cope with this, especially the ones that have been nasing since 2013. And I just, you'll love to see it. So I'll let you guys jump in on any thoughts or any great tweets or. or levels of cope that you've been seeing around. If anybody has seen anything hilarious, feel free to jump in. Well, you know, do you mention Peter Schiff there? What's really interesting is that this particular week,

you saw Gold really crash in a meaningful way. Gold was horrible. So it's really tempting to just keep tweeting out that tweet from, I guess it's from the, what is that cartoon? The guy is puking violently, big chimes. Oh, yeah. Is it family guy, the dog? You know it from Team America, I think.

Team America, Team America, right? So it's so apropos. It's just like he bashes Bitcoin while he's getting crushed in gold. You know, the guy's wrong. So it's just, it couldn't be more wrong about everything. When did he first start tweeting about how much he hated Bitcoin and how terrible it was? It was under 100 bucks. You know, I told him to, I told I was at his house in Connecticut with his son.

His son was there on a Christmas. And it was, Bitcoin was under $10. Mind you, his son was only like 11. Right. His son was only 11. He was doing magic tricks. And I told him under $10. And we're playing pool in his basement.

And I'm giving him the whole story. And, you know, he started bashing it immediately. He's been bashing it since $10,000, $100,000, $1,000, $100,000. He'll be bashing it at $100,000. The greatest magic trick that Spencer Schiff has, has ever pulled is managing to understand Bitcoin in that household. Right. You know, because I think it's just appealing for younger minds, agile minds, are able to pick up on it,

whereas old calcified, ossified dinosaur brains like shift, you know, they just can't comprehend it. Yeah, 100%. Hoddle, what have you seen lately? Well, uh, Francis Coppola was out there with some, uh, really trash takes as per usual. her takes her as trash as her wine. I wasn't a fan of the Third Godfather either, so, you know, fuck her in general. They're the worst. They're the worst.

It's like, come on, we're up like crazy on the monthly, on the yearly, on everything. It has a correction that was pretty much expected. And everybody's like, look, I told you, it's crashing. It's like, dude, how long can you be wrong? They've been wrong. They've been wrong the entire time. Max has been screaming out of since 2000-fucking 11. Get a fucking clue.

You have to meet reality on reality's terms. Like, this thing is dominating everything. So I don't know how long you're going to keep up with your bullshit. Like, I'm retweeting the same article I wrote three years ago. It's like, bitch, a lot has happened in three years. And you were wrong three years ago. Oh, yeah. She wrote a story that got picked up by Forbes, where she said,

Max Kaiser's wrong that British people are buying Bitcoin. And then a week later, Financial Times had a story, British people are buying Bitcoin. So I send this link and I'm like, you know, you're wrong again. You know, how many times can you be wrong? Oh, you're an academic. That's it. I get it. You're paid to be wrong.

I love it. Gigi, have you seen any cope in your circles and your Twitter goings on? Anything on your end? Yeah, of course. They're the usual suspects that you all mentioned. But there is also, I'm also bullish because Bitcoin is insanely bullish for the PLEPS because time and time again, big macro guys don't really understand it. Like they are here for the gains and they think they understand it.

But then they disqualified themselves and flirt with XRP, for example. And it just gives me a lot of hope that the PLEP time is not over yet. And the big money that is moving in is just, again, on the stupid side. And they don't really see it. They don't understand what's going on. So I think us PLEPS, we still have a little bit of time. Maxa says include that, of course, you know, like. Yeah, 100%.

Let's go down that road because Ralph, Raul, you know, everybody was super excited, but the writing was a little bit on the wall as he started entertaining a lot of stuff. And don't get me wrong, everybody kind of has those moments. But in having his discovering Bitcoin maximalism moment, he's also marketing shit coins with his platform heavily like with years and years of proof that that's a terrible way to go. And again, like the tweet that Gigi's alluding to, he somebody asked him about XRP and he said, now that I understand it, I'm starting to warm up to it. And it's like when Ian Belina guessed on Real Vision, like, holy God.

It's basically like now that now that I understand that the ripple team has add dollars to, you know, funnel to me on real vision. I'm starting to warm up to it. That's what's really going on. Yeah. Well, let me introduce me to this idea a while ago called orange washing. So orange washing would be where someone like this guy, Raul, will come across as a Bitcoin maximalist. But then when you get over the paywall, it's shit coinery. So he's orange washing his business.

And so a lot of people are into orange washing. And that's what it amounts to. And it's not particularly appealing. And the other thing is that what else did I write down here? A man guy comes for bearing. But it's, you know, Paul Tudor Jones, who's a hedge fund guy, said Bitcoin was humility, uplifting to humanity. So you can tell he did a lot of thought about it.

Michael Saylor, you know, when he talks about Bitcoin, he spent, you know, he rejected it in 2013. And then he came back to it. And he realized, I was maybe I'm wrong. And the amount of due diligence he's done is incredible. The things he says about it are just, you know, so obviously spent so much time thinking about it. But, you know, what I was going to say is that Raoul Powell, you know, I put him into a category I would call the Bitcoin tourist, right? They kind of fly by, they drink a couple of cocktails, and then they're out of there, right? They're not really, they're not really, they're just in it for the lulls.

You know, he's already, he's in a tax haven in the Cayman Islands, and he's saying why we need to appease regulators and tax collectors. Well, okay, then the first thing you should do is leave the Caymans immediately if you're so anxious to pay taxes, right? And he's also, he made a comment this week about regulators saying, you know, grow up. You know, this, we're not going to get adoption without. regulators that's uh not that that's very antagonistic to say to this community and to the cypher punk roots that built the community that this so so but i don't think he cares really because he's just likes to day trade he's like a robin hood trader lives in the cayman islands who's just not particularly thinking in depth about much and he's he's he's he's not a contender yeah i want to highlight

a great tweet in response I've retweeted Rao Paul's XRP thing and somebody responded he's been prepping for the orgy he wants Bitcoin maximalists on his shows to legitimize his name brand while diverting the crypto

scam flow into his pockets nothing new here Bitcoiners should disavow and avoid right he's orange washing that's orange washing absolutely yeah it's I mean we're going to see plenty more of this in the coming year.

Like it's, you know, early on, there was maybe an inkling that it may not be as much shit-coinery this epoch getting into the bull run. But I mean, it seems relatively clear that there's still going to be a ton of it. And I love, it does provide an opportunity to people who have done their research and who have been around the block and understand what's going on to find. finally be able to just ignore the noise and just stack sats through all of it, regardless of how paper-rich a lot of the shit-coiners seem. You know that getting into a subsequent bear market or like hyper-bitonization,

whatever happens first, they're going to get wrecked and you're not. So it is at least refreshing to understand that. Yeah, absolutely. And I think of Bitcoin as a living thing that lives in the intersection of multiple spaces. And we have cyberspace and meat space and also thin space like the financial markets. And most of the macro guys, they are focused on thin space. And we haven't seen a test yet in meat space yet. So there was no like infrastructure attack on Bitcoin yet.

So Bitcoin for 95% of the organism, cyberspace is important. important. And as I like to say, it's always sunny in cyberspace. So as long as the fundamentals in cyberspace don't change, then Bitcoin is fine. As long as P does not equal NP and as long as computation requires energy and as long as humans are greedy, Bitcoin is fine, you know? And that's what many people just fail to get. This is just a process that will play out. And if you're not paying attention and if you're getting fooled by shit coins, it's, it's your loss. Yeah, absolutely. Well, so we've talked about the cope and that reason for being bullish, but I'm going to allow one of you guys to drop your reason for being bullish. If anybody wants to jump into their topic or jump in wherever you like, then the floor is yours.

So whoever wants to grab it first. I'll go first. You know, it's so awesome to see Paul Tudor Jones and Drucken Miller and Mike. Michael Sailor come in and, you know, just, especially in Sailor's case, just do this like huge Chad buy of, you know, 500 million, whatever it was, right? And he's already like doubled up his money. Like, that's awesome to see, you know, but what's more exciting to me is the PLEBs and what's been going on with all the low level bitcoins. And like, at first I was sort of sour on the PLEB thing when it started back in 2018, 19, right? Because it seemed like a bunch of these dudes were like

jilted lovers, you know, who they'd all been dumped on by the shit coiners. And they got together to basically be like, never again. And there was a lot of like vengeance. Like I must go get this guy. And you know, but man, they're just all crushing it so hard. Like these dudes have real conviction. They're normal guys. They're putting in a lot of, you know, a lot of capital for them, working regular jobs, blue collar jobs, putting in their money. And it's actually like changing lives. It's changing family trees. It's creating diny. for the people I think are most deserving. And to me, that is just so awesome to see.

I love when Bitcoin just creates that financial empowerment for people. And it's doing it for basically everybody who has a reciprocal relationship with it. Everybody who believes in Bitcoin and has conviction is rewarded. And it's just so awesome the entire movement that's developed around it. Yeah, 100% agree. I'd echo that. Also in the chat, we had somebody say low-level bitcoinsers, LOLL.

The low-level bitcoins are the high-level bitcoins are the real high-level bitcoins. Yeah, anybody want to tag on to what Haudel said? Well, I'll say that I said something similar on a show, a podcast last week, and why I believe that is if you go to our Orange Pell podcast group, we have 7,000 people in our telegram group, and from over 100 different countries. And my whole thesis is that with Bitcoin, unlike the fiat space, you just need one Satoshi and you're in that room.

You're a bitcoiner and it doesn't matter how much you have. And I believe Michael Saylor, who is genuinely a whale in this space, but agree. Like he's no better than somebody with 100 Satoshes to their name. And because it's your mind, your mind's. set in your, you know, your understanding of sovereignty of the individual and your liberty that Bitcoin delivers to you to break free from the Fiat Dark Ages. So I think, you know, Bitcoin lady, Al-Qanani and Botswana is just as important to Bitcoin as Michael Saylor is. I just, I don't see any difference at all. I have as much respect for her. And she probably

probably has less than one Bitcoin and as Michael Saylor. They've all done their part and that's the important thing about Bitcoin. And, you know, and I also want to like add to that as well, all the early bitcoins who lost all their Bitcoin or sent it to the wrong address or spent it on shit like online that because when we all thought like it was like, wow, this is like a PayPal or meeting of exchange and you bought a whole bunch of shit. Well, that dispersed Bitcoin around the world. And, you know, that's, I think it's more powerful and stronger for it, the fact that so much Bitcoin got distributed so widely, so early.

Yeah, I love it. I mean, Bitcoin is really the great equalizer, right? Because having lots of Bitcoin does not guarantee you more Bitcoin. If you want more Bitcoin, you have to be creating goods and services. that people are willing to part with their sats for. And if you buy sats, if you convert your filthy fiat into sats, you have a guaranteed percentage of the total monetary base that will ever exist. And so everybody has that same right to accrue whatever percentage of the monetary base they're capable of,

but nobody can dilute it on them. And that's what we've been missing. But importantly, in the Fiat space, Jamie Diamond can call up Jerome Powell and divert the flow of fiat. He can cause him to cut rates. He can make him do stuff. Michael Saylor, it doesn't matter if he has, you know, over 45,000 Bitcoin between his company and himself. Like, he can't do any. He can't control.

He can't fork the coin. It's like somebody with 100 Satoshi's is just as powerful as he is at that moment. And that's rare. That's not something we see in our monetary system. Jamie Diamond has a lot more power than anybody out there with a hundred bucks to their name. Same with Warren Buffett. Same with all those guys. But somebody with just 100 Satoshi's is just as powerful in Bitcoin as Michael Saylor.

100%. Anybody else want to tag onto that? Yeah, absolutely. I think the permissionless nature of Bitcoin is not understood by too many people because we also see a lot of regulation in exchanges and so forth. But it like we will see in the future and we are already seeing that, that Bitcoin is permissionless at its core and it will be really, really hard to regulate it. And what this means is that everyone is truly equal.

Everyone can interact with the protocol if he or she wants to. And this is in regards to saving. This is in regards to transactions. This is in regards to everything that is built on top. And I'd like to tag on another reason to be bullish. Even though, you know, a lot of people hate the idea of using Bitcoin for anything but saving today. But I think it's insanely bullish that we already see, already see right now today, something like Adam Curry's podcasting 2.0 pop-up.

And it already works, you know. Like if you want to use your, if you want to put your Satoshi's to good use and you want to support independent creators, you can, we have streaming stats now, baby, and I think that's insanely bullish. I wasn't expecting this to work for a couple of years still. And yet here we are. I'm using it every day. It's built in in Spinks chat and you can stream TFTC or any other podcast and just stream sets if you want to. You can also free ride if you're an asshole.

But it already works and you can play around with the future associates that you have. And I would everyone encourage to check this out and also utilize the permissionless nature of Bitcoin to build all. awesome stuff that people in Bitcoin are building right now left and right. Yeah, I'd like to touch on that because again, as you alluded to, there's a lot of people that are very only saved Bitcoin. And I think if you're if you're accumulating Bitcoin, but you still have money coming in in Fiat, it makes sense to dump the Fiat as opposed to the Bitcoin. And I was initially worried to make the majority of my income in Bitcoin because, I was worried it would normalize the action of spending my Bitcoin. But quite the opposite has happened.

I'd become the stingiest motherfucker out there. And I stack as many, like all of, basically all my income is Bitcoin. And it just prevents me from spending because everything I look at, I'm like, do I want to lose my stats on this? But given now that we have methods with which to use it, it does make that much easier to do nowadays. I'm using lightning every single day at this point, which is wonderful, which means that as Bitcoin does become a world reserve currency that people actually utilize when Fiat crumbles away, it can be used that way. And the rails are already there and being further built. So it

makes me happy seeing that, and I'm bullish on that as well. Right. So past week, Brian Armstrong over there at Coinbase did a tweet thread. He said he heard a rumor. that Mnuchin, a Treasury Secretary, is going to take an action before they leave office that would make non-custodial wallets a lot more difficult to use and that everything would be KYC. And so that sent ripples through crypto, Twitter, a lot of commentary came out. What does everybody think about this? I think it's unenforceable. I think you can crack down on exchanges, I suppose. you can maybe go and try to regulate app stores so that only KYCed

wallets are available in the app stores. But like I mean, you can still easily get desktop wallets. You can still easily use things like BISC to trade peer to peer. Again, myself, I now earn Bitcoin as my income. That is, will never go into a approved KYG. seed wallet, it goes into my own private storage, which nobody touches. Beyond that, I was saying at the beginning of the show, 88.3 something percent of all Bitcoin have already been mined and are already out there, only about, I think it's in the teens, like 14 percent of

existing Bitcoin are sitting in exchanges. So how do you pull that remaining 60 to 70 percent of Bitcoin that are issued at current time into the KYC'd world. That's going to be a difficult task to say the least. I just don't see it happening. And it seems like a repeat of the China fud. We saw all through 2017 just more westernized. And that'll be our source of pullbacks from now on in. But I don't know.

What do you guys think? Yeah, it's interesting because I think that we, I used to worry about a period prohibition coming to Bitcoin that there would be an outright ban 6102 style and now I worry that we're heading towards a period of co-option by the powers that be in order to maintain their power and you know it's it's tricky because you know you can larp on Twitter all you want about I'm not going to comply and shit but when the men with guns show up to your house and fucking force you to comply right so it's like I don't know it's a good point about the supply already being out there and distributed and I think we'll have to see if the rules

or whatever, if it even comes to fruition, but we'll have to see if it's retroactive or if it's just going forward and how that affects things. I don't know. There's a lot of questions that are up in the air for me with it. And I think that it's going to be a fight.

It's going to be a real fight. And it could go on for a long time. But I think ultimately, like, we're going to prevail. It just is going to be annoying. I think we're prevailing now. Because, I mean, while we were sitting here, it's just been announced. that next week the US Congress is going to vote on legalizing marijuana nationally, federally.

So, I mean, that is like a 100-year battle that happened there to get to that point. It's too late for them to engage in a battle with us. Like, Bitcoin's way too powerful. So there isn't going to even be this moment of having to form activist groups and lobby and do all this stuff and let them get, you know, get them to give us permission to use Bitcoin. Like, it's permissionless and we've already been using it. It's too late. The facts on the ground are beyond their control.

So we're, you know, this is obviously a great story that they're going to legalize marijuana federally. But, you know, we're never going to get to that point for Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think Bitcoin is a global game. And I think the countries that are friendly. the Bitcoin and Bitcoiners, they will flourish and those that are not, won't flourish as much.

And as you said, looking back, we saw all this playing out in history with the prohibition. And as everyone knows, you don't need much to make alcohol, like people are brewing beer in prisons and just, you know, people get creative. And I think the same thing will happen with Bitcoin. In the end, what do you want to tax? If you want to tax miners, do you really want to tax someone for finding a random number? I think that's just ludicrous. If you look at the fundamentals, what Bitcoin is.

I think it's just insane that you want to try to enforce certain rules because just someone was lucky and found a random number. The same is true for transactions, like handing someone an open dime or that there are many ways of transacting with Bitcoin, you know. And it's going to be a fight, that's for sure. But I think there will always be jurisdictions and people will get creative and find ways around laws and regulations that just frankly don't make any sense. Yeah.

To tag onto this idea, I just saw in the chat and I pull it up on screen, Happy Shilmore says, rich Bitcoiners will fund whatever lobbying they have to either way. And I think it's an interesting point in that Bitcoin kind of like seeps into the all existing establishment and then shapes society as a whole with its incentive structure. So we already see now the first elected senator in Wyoming that's pro Bitcoin and is stoked about it. You saw it even in the Senate hearings with, or was it Senate or wherever it was where Zuckerberg was being grilled on Libra. And you had the House representative talk about Bitcoin versus shit coin. And you just you see this culture kind of like seeping into everything.

And yeah, you're going to have the Raulp halls of the world saying Marauds. But realistically, like, I think Bitcoin incentivizes people to make it as free as possible. And does that look like some people on top able to benefit more? Maybe. But I think less so than with the current Fiat system. Yeah, well, the thing also to keep in mind is that we need to, make sure people understand how precarious the whole fiat system is right now and it's literally on the precipice of a huge huge devastating crash in many ways you know 20% of all the money ever created in

the u.s happened in the last six to nine months right they the money the money the money to go burr is it's not really an economic policy at this point it's not quantitative easing it's not has anything to do with any responsible policy it's the damn broke on this multi-hundred trillion flood of worthless paper and it's just blowing out this economy the global economy and

it's it's biblical it's like Noah's Ark it's like a 40-day flood and Bitcoin is the arc that's going to help people get over it so when you hear this stuff this fud about you know Mnuchin rumors

you know I'm disappointed in Brian Armstrong because he seems you know like he'll buy any fud that comes across the transom. He needs to grow a pair. But then again, that's not his model, is it? He needs to stack some bananas. He needs to go stack bananas. You know, one of the things about Bitcoin, it's just, it doesn't stop. It just keeps going, no matter what. Like, it's just going to keep making blocks every 10 minutes, right? Like, we can all freak out about the newest regulation and this and that. But like, Bitcoin is

an independent organism, and it's a superorganism, and it's eating the world, you know? So, Yeah, well said. Well said. Did anybody find the timing of Brian's tweet storm a little suspect, given that they just took their margin, they had to get rid of their margin trading. They obviously immediately went down as the market dipped after his tweet storm. And then also they had to like preemptively refute this op-ed in the New York Times

about the treatment of their employees. All of that was dropping at the same time. You're not really accusing Brian Ninja Launch, B-Cash-Armstrong of market manipulation. Ben, that's so rude. I don't know what I was thinking. He would never do that. They're the ones you gave the IRS,

all that pre-that information. They're the first ones. They stepped right up to the plate, and they did right that. They did it. I used to live in France, you know. And of course, in Europe, in the 30s, you had the the the the the the the the concentration camps are happening and you learn that in

France they volunteered to send above the quota right it's like really hard so here's uh brian armstrong like volunteering shit that he doesn't need to volunteer really he needs to just shut the fuck up and but you know he's going to get his lunch eaten by crackens they're jesse is the true bitcoins or even they do have shit coins on the exchange but But he's not like this guy Armstrong who seems to like lift his skirt whenever some regulator shows up. It's it's funny. What was it? Matt O'Dell tweeted out after the fact that they were talking about creating all of this this on-chain analytic stuff and then handing it over to the feds as a way to recoup costs.

It would just total bullshit. And that's why he tweeted. it because they had created some funds to help fund developers. But meanwhile, apparently they were bleeding cash from building these analytic tools. Coinbase is also on a path to go public, right? So when you go public, you know, you have to jump through a lot of hoops. And there's no need really to go public for those guys. They're cash flow positive.

They don't need to take the extra cash. And they're going to compromise themselves so badly by doing everything the SEC wants them to do that is going to harm their business, in my view. And they don't need to do it. These other exchanges, they're hugely cash flow positive. And they don't need to go through it. But I think that's why he does all these things because they come to him and they say, look, you want to go public.

You got a lot of venture capital behind you. You guys want to cash out. You've got to do all this stuff. You've got to give us your tax information. You've got to, you know, we're going to shut down your margin trading. Yeah, as somebody just pointed out, what was that all about? You know, it's just being, they're being harassed. You know, same thing happened as ShapeShift.

You know, Shapeshift got the feds crawled so far up their ass that it turned the company into this like, you know, albatross that is weighing on the space. It's still. And, you know, once you let the feds in the door, they, they fuck you up bad. Yeah, I remember talking to Eric at Bitcoin 2019 asking about that. He just kind of seemed very, I mean, he is, a shit coining aside, he is very libertarian. and he just seems defeated about the whole thing about basically turning into another KYC exchange. It was kind of, it did. I felt bad talking to him about that.

Yeah, I know. Here's what you saying. He had that defeated quality. Like he just came out of the joint, you know, and spent 20 years, you know, doing a hard time. I think everybody who gets rich enough or, you know, is cutting against the state in some way, at some point gets touched up by the intelligence community and they don't necessarily you know you know bring action against you but they let you know like we know who you are we know what you're doing yeah act right act accordingly yeah okay to be fair we got to say that you know when you do

take on the state it's not fun you know they know unlimited tools unlimited budget and they and it's it's horrible you know um we've come across it a few times and it's not fun yeah that's that's why i i think we just got a judo this day get them to trojan horse bitcoin in and then You know, Bitcoin is a wild beast. Like, you can't tame it. You can think you can. But eventually that, you know, the soldiers pop out of the horse and kill everyone in the city. It's like only a matter of time, you know.

Yeah, I think it's true. Okay. Well, let's let's give maybe either Max or Stacey a chance to drop a reason why they are indeed bullish today. This could be mine amaxes, right? Unless. Sure. I have my own thoughts about it, but I'm willing to go with the party line. There's my lawyer right now.

Here's my lawyer's calling. I should have answered that. There was one of the fake IRS calls. Like perfect timing. We're talking about that. Oh, that's great. Bitcoin for you. Yeah.

They always call me and say they're going to take away my social security number. And I say, do it. Do it. Yeah. And then they hang up on me. It might be the real IRS. I want to be a cyber. No, they don't.

But I want to say my, my bullish case is for the artist because today, of course, is Jimmy Hendricks' birthday. It's his 78th birthday. So one of the greatest artists in musical history. And let's talk about the artist because Bitcoin is the space for artists. Artists have basically simplified all of the ideas of Bitcoin into like money printer go brr, right? Like how many complex ideas does that filter into one brilliant image? You don't have to, explain money printing and the cantillan effect and all of these things. It's just like immediately around the world, everybody understood that. Charles Bukowski himself said, an artist is a man who says a difficult thing in a simple way.

Bitcoin itself is art because it does a very difficult thing in a simple way. Like it's so simple and yet so difficult. And the difficulty adjustment is part of that. So, you know, in our group, Orange Pole podcast Telegram group, we have like RDBTC, we have Rick Stoner, and they're making so many amazing memes. We have one of the best sticker collections in a telegram group, all these like memes of Mia Max. And it's just like amazing the art market that has developed. Like the artists attracted to Bitcoin is just profound to me. But, you know, we also on Orange Pill podcast, we talk about this being Renaissance.

2.0. So it makes sense that the great artists of today would come to Bitcoin because the great artists still to this day in the history of humankind were in Florence, Italy at that time. So, you know, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Botticelli, like they're still considered the top of the top 10 greatest artists of all time. So it makes sense that the great artists of today would be attracted to Bitcoin because, you know, Bitcoin is the equivalent of the innovation of the the Medici's Florin. So, you know, that attracted all the greats to Florence. And I think Bitcoin attracts the greats to, you know, to the Orange Pill podcast

Telegram group. Yeah. I honestly, it's true. I like it because it references like the Bitcoin standard where Savadin is talking about the consequences of fiat on art and the decline in in, in, in, in, in, in quality over time. And now you see artists that are Bitcoiners creating art only accepting Bitcoin, refusing to accept dollars for what they do. And I think that contributes to much better art. And I've seen some incredible creations out there. And I love to see it. Even at Bitcoin 2019

in San Fran, like some of the artists there are just incredible. You don't get those, you know, one splash or paint on a piece of paper and that's it. You, you, you, get some amazing exactly is that crypto graffiti yeah yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah stuff is insane like the the the piece of Hal Finney that has a working node inside of it like oh that's that's the best piece I've ever seen it I love it so much yeah yeah and the Jamie Diamond made out of credit cards yeah we've got an amazing one up too high right now to get but that of max from that French artist French graffiti artist who's

He's pretty well known in France. But he did one of Max as well on commission. This is just a lithograph, like a copy of it. Somebody hired him to do original art on Max, Hal Finney, Adam Back, and one other person. And so he gave us a copy of it, so it's not the original. But, you know, it's great work. And also that at Paulus Palini, when we were in Riga at the Honey Badger Conference,

There was a great artist there. We have a really amazing work. It's way up there. But otherwise, I would get it for you. Otherwise, it could be a funny show. This could be art if I tried to climb up there and then fell. Love it. That could be a comedy episode of YouTube sessions.

Yeah. There's been some great stuff. Even like, there was some comments in the chat here about how the meme warriors the meme artists of the space are again kind of encapsulating what Bitcoin is into these art forms even like my shirt Phineeph I'm not sure how to say anyways yeah and he's got

just like all of these old school kind of war era propaganda posters that he's turned into like do your bit run a node and you know they're all great pieces and you can get those and I've just seen some incredibly creative things out there I don't know, a hoddle, Gigi, are there any artists out there that you've liked or pieces or things that you've seen? Oh, yeah, dude, the art in the space is amazing. Picking back on top of it, it goes beyond art because all of the intellectuals and academics are here also, right?

And like, if you're an intellectual or an academic, you can serve the state and their interests, and you can provide intellectual cover for them, ideological cover, so that they can continue to plunder all of us. or you can come and serve your own interest and serve the interests of the people so that the people can continue to get richer. It's the first time in history that we've ever had, you know, sort of the academics and the intellectuals have been able to work for moral ends. And that is drawing a lot of them to our cause. I mean, when you look at the Rabinis and the shifts and the, you know, whoever's, the Krugmans, whoever's supposed to be hot shit, I don't see any thinking coming out of them that matches the brain power and the firepower that we have on our side. So like that combined with the memes, combined with the propaganda, combined with the art, it's the fucking renaissance. Like it's amazing. Well, yeah, it's like

the art, the actual artists themselves is like the Renaissance. And the philosophers are like the French Enlightenment. That was the beginning of the separation of the church and state. And so it makes sense that these philosophers would erupt around the separation of money and state. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. How about you, Gigi? Any, any favorite piece? that things artists out there that you've seen yeah I mean there's so many there are so many I really like the stuff that cyphopunk now is doing for example I love the 21ism art collective I'm very honored to be a small part of that and there are just so many awesome was this him probably yeah I'm not sure

anymore but again there's so many so many amazing artists it's insane and And you love to see also how everything kind of works together and fits together. As you mentioned, they're artists that only accept Satoshi's. And also in terms of, you know, bootstrapping, the circular economy even, the magazine you just put into focus, Hodlonaut and Katia also. They pay all contributors like those who actually create a magazine in sets and they only accept sets. so no fiat allowed and that's just amazing to see so we we see not only a new renaissance because bitcoin is something that you can truly rally behind as this truth machine and this new source of truth and of course it lowers your time preference and everything else but also just from a

technological perspective this not all of it would be possible because if you if you create some art that's not approved by paypal or visa or the state or whatever and there's definitely some of that in Bitcoin. If you just look at the bull Bitcoin outlet, for example, you know, like there's some nudity involved there. So we're not far from from a ban of something like that. And you can always accept Bitcoin. Like it's this permission less technology again that is part of enabling all of that. As an artist, you can make sure that you're always getting paid because if you, if you're creating something great, someone will always part with their sets for it and you can always accept it. Yeah, 100%.

Well, just for a second, I'll say there's 250 people watching live, everybody. Thank you for being here. And make sure you smash that like button. Give it a share. Every thumbs up that you give gets it in front of more eyeballs. So be sure to do that. Also, before we move on, because don't go to the next thing without telling you have to give a shout out to Sean Lennon, who is a musical artist who created our theme tune.

This is like the biggest rock star to do an actual theme tune for a Bitcoin podcast. So he made our theme tune. He was the one inspired, reached out to us and offered us this, like, amazing theme tune that everybody wants now for Orangeville podcast. It isn't red. It is blue. I was wondering who did that. That's amazing. That's John Lennon.

Yeah. So he and his girlfriend, Charlotte Kemp Mule, who's also her own, like a great musician as well. And our friend in London, Julian Moore. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's an interesting relationship. what we have with Sean because we've known him now for 10 years. And he reached out to us 10 years ago. He was a fan of Kaiser report.

So we met up and we was just talking about Bitcoin at that time. And at that time in 2011, 2012, when John Perry Barlow was active also. And it kind of interesting crossover into the WikiLeaks Julian Assange story. Because you remember one of the last comments from Satoshi was he didn't want to expose Bitcoin to WikiLeaks. because he thought it would bring too much attention to it from the state, yeah, from the state. And that at its early stages, they could co-opt it maybe in some way. And I remember having that conversation. I remember pushing hard to open up the Bitcoin to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange.

And eventually he did start to accept him. And I think last somebody checked, it's worth like $50 million in his wallet, something along those lines. And but I remember talking to Sean about it and our good deal. departed friend Matthew Mellon, who gave Assange sanctuary briefly during his illegal problems. And so this political edge to Bitcoin was there at the very beginning, as you could naturally assume it would be because you're taking on the state's money. And this separates the state from money. Now, to get back to our earlier points there, you know, we're getting back to another political

phase. I think the state's kind of waking up to the fact that this is an existential threat. And, you know, they're going to lash out in whatever way they can lash out. Art has always been a great way to fight the state because the state's ability to propagandize their position is somewhat limited because it's all centralized and it's all very formulaic and it's not terribly impactful if you have a free artistic community. So as long as Bitcoin remains free, and of course it's impossible not for it to remain free.

As was stated, and no matter what we do, those blocks are going to keep coming every 10 minutes. Even if humans become extinct, the blocks are still going to keep coming. So as long as that's still a guiding North Star, if you will, for the movement, then we know before we begin,

that we've already won. You know, we've already won this fight before it even starts. So the only thing left to do is laugh. You know, it's just they're arriving to this so late and so ill-prepared and so intellectually bereft of having the firepower to do any combat whatsoever, that it's just you have to take pity, you know. I mean, eventually when this dollar collapses and these people come to us to the Bitcoin community for a bailout, you know what we're going to tell them.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, maybe Max, while you've got the mic, maybe you can drop your, you said you had a reason for being. being bullish. Let's dive into it. Tell us. Oh, yes, my reason for bullishness on Bitcoin. Well, you know, with absolute scarcity comes absolute abundance, right? So we know that scarcity brings abundance and hard money, you know, can, like the Medici

family, it brought about the Renaissance because there was a foundation built on a unit of exchange that people didn't have to worry about minute by minute by minute. And so they just focused on their creative spiritual output. And you had the Renaissance, which was great because you had the dark ages and the Middle Ages and people were in a deep dark funk, you know, spiritually. So now with absolute scarcity, which is really a unique concept in the universe, you know, we don't really have absolute scarcity. And so here it is. And it's in the form of this absolutely scarce money. So it's the foundation upon which we'll have absolute abundance.

So what is absolute abundance? If we know what absolute scarcity is, what does absolute abundance look like? It's, it's, it's, it's, we're not exactly sure what it looks like. Like we, we're right now, we are grasping at straws. We're on the, the, the, the edge of this phenomenon, you know, the, the, what's the edge of a volcano? The cord, the cordano, the cordela. Cradero? The candero is like the edge of the, of the volcano, you know, the, the chaldera.

the dormant volcano. You know, that's where we're at with this. And this volcano of absolute abundance is about the blow. And, like, people are going to be like, I'm not even, I don't even know if I'm human anymore. Because my consciousness is now completely free to go everywhere, anywhere, anywhere, anytime. You know, and that, the hive mind effect of having all humans on the same chain is going to be like, you know, know, I think that's when we're going to make contact with with extraterrestrial intelligence. I know this sounds a bit off the rails, but.

No, you're right. This is the moment when they flick the switch. And that, you know, whether it's 20,000 light years away, it doesn't matter because synchronistically, we're going to be, we're going to be on the same mind space. And that will be, we will leave our puberty as a species and enter into a more mature, version of ourselves, and we won't recognize it. We won't want to even dwell on it. It'll just be absolutely abundant. It's just, you know, think about that because think of all the emotional, our emotions are guided completely by a sense of not having enough. We don't have enough money. We don't have enough sex. We don't have enough love. Now, when absolute abundance, you have an absolutely

abundant quote money whatever you equate sex to be let's call it orgasmic fulfillment with a higher being or um you know the the sense of um all of these things that we consider to be short changed of in some way that all becomes absolutely abundant so you you're it's a different state of consciousness and a lot of people you know through the artistic community through the ages there's been hints of this people like to go to the edge and their art and they're say, look, here's my vision of an artistic vision. And it's not recognizable, anything that you would equate it to. But you spirit will respond to it and say, I'm not really sure what this is about, but I know I'm moved by it. I'm having an emotional

experience. You know, that's the fear in your body being removed. You know, this is what great art will do. It will take the fear away. And then that elation that you feel is a state of fearlessness or we might call faith right so we have that faith that that's coming yet and again historically we have religions religions attempt to get to a place of faith but they're all very clumsy in their attempt none none have really achieved it that they've all fallen short but we yearn for it we still want it we still feel that we still have that fire to have the faith so i mean this is what having an absolutely scarce medium of exchange that's that's driven by photons that are free right that's the basic unit is a photon and we got plenty of photons we know we're bathed in photons

every second of every day we've got more you know the photons we're not going to run out of photons I love this. I do. I like your idea of the, the idea that Bitcoin is the catalyst to allow us to interact with other beings. And I mean, it's interesting, it's interesting because right now, and, and dive down this rabbit hole with me, although Max has already dove head first, but let's go with this. Um, you know, right now, humans are not as efficient as we could be. And one of the reasons for that is that our measurement for value of what we build, of where we allocate time is broken. And people at the top that control our measuring stick, our money, can arbitrarily place new money and siphon value from endeavors that may have proven much more valuable in the real world.

And with a measuring stick of Bitcoin, it is the absolute kind of beacon of truth of what the market values the most. And so value can actually accrue in the places that do the most for people and people with a lower time preference. And so what could we have built? What could we have achieved over the past? I mean, sure, from 71, but even before then when we were debasing. the gold currency, the gold back currency kind of behind the scenes, what could we have achieved in those lost decades of absolute efficient capital allocation where there is a consequence to misallocation of capital and there is a real reward for doing things right?

My guess is we would be far beyond technologically where we are now instead of having shitty plastic gizmos and rushing out for Black Friday and buying like bullshit that we're going to throw it next year. I don't know about you guys. I want to touch on something Max said about there being, you know, no absolute scarcity in nature. That is 100% correct. There's no place in the universe where you can find absolute scarcity. All you can find are shortages and they happen to be like local shortages, right? And like if the universe is constantly expanding, well then new shit is constantly being created. But absolute scarcity is such a powerful, you know, Promethean level invention akin to fire that it opens an entire new dimension for

human experience and potentiality and reality. And so when you fully understand that, you dive down the rabbit hole, it will change you 100%. I think we've all felt that to some degree or another. And I definitely have felt that. Like I feel like it's like I got the thanos glove on and it's just like raw powers coursing through my veins, right? which is maybe not an experience we're supposed to have, and that's the way the aliens kill me. I don't know. But I know that this is like a whole new world of unexplored space,

and the reason the rabbit hole is endless is because this is a totally new dimension. We haven't brought anything to bear on top of it yet, and it's just so fucking exciting. Like, we're standing, not only we're standing on the edge of a volcano, we're standing on the edge of the universe, peering into a brand new universe that just opened up for us. Let's take the example of a forest. Okay, you look at the forest, and it's, for the most part,

absolutely still and it's simultaneously incredibly active and the basic unit of the forest would be the photosynthesis that's happening on the green leaf is converting carbon to oxygen and that is a perfect price discovery that is perfect market that creates a perfect outcome of a perfect forest the Garden of Eden, if you will. Now, with Bitcoin, you have perfect price discovery. As things become priced in Bitcoin, that the price, the value ascribe to those things becomes perfect, because it represents all the inputs and all the outputs at that instant in a perfect way, and the outcomes are perfect. So to your point, what if we had more efficient markets 40, 50 years ago? How much more advanced would we be and it's all based on having horrible price discovery based on fiat money and uh controlled

by a centralized authority like a federal reserve and the outcomes have been catastrophic absolutely catastrophic so this is what bitcoin represents it represents perfect price discovery therefore perfect outcomes and um to you know to kind of build on this forest analogy you know the forest is completely self-sustaining right the there's no waste in the forest you know You know, the leaves die. They enter the soil. They create nitrates that feeds the next generation of trees. And they get their energy from photosynthesis, right?

It's an ecosystem and it's perfect. So humans are totally at odds with their ecosystem right now. We're not in our ecosystem. We're not, we're apart from our ecosystem. In a very potentially dangerous way, we are so removed from our own ecosystem. And folks, you know, ego-drivenly will say, you know, know we we will go to mars or we'll go to another planet or we'll build a dome well we they fuck nature you know that's just that's you know we we've been down this path before for 2,700

years the greek invented the concept of tragedy you know uh you go against nature and it's tragic that's what tragedy is you think you're better than nature you're apart from nature it ends in categorically tragedy that's what that means then so uh and also huge We have a tendency to go down that path over and over again. So now for the first time, absolutely scarce. We have absolute abundance. And we have the ability to escape the cycle of our own stupidity with this perfect outcome driven by perfect price discovery, what can only be described as perfect money. Right.

And it's created, by the way, you know, the thing you're talking about, the cycles of nature, if you look at the forest, It does that behavior based on the cycle of the day, the month, the year, the seasons. So the leaves fall in the autumn to make way, you know, provide nutrients for the new seeds and the abundance in the spring. But, you know, humans have done that. We've organized around this fiat money whereby they try to break the cycles of capitalism, of humans. They try to make sure, you know, there are. are no business failures. The market can never go down. They cut you off from your family because they could charge for those services that families used to provide. They've pulled the future.

We've gone so far into the future with our debts that something so remarkable happened in the last two years that just is not commented enough upon, but that time no longer had value. That's something that's never happened in the history of humankind where interest rates went negative. Time has no value. That is so mind-blowing that we are so hubristic at the end game of this fiat system that we could say, time is an inconvenience for the situation we find ourselves in because we've spent the next 50 years. So we must erase time and decide that it has no value. And it's like, well, you know, Bitcoin reasserts those important physics of money and physics of time and value and time preference and things like that.

Because the fact that we had tried to eradicate time is dangerous to a world governed by the time space continuum. I totally agree with what you're saying. I just want to point out something. I'm sorry, is this a little bit of a tangent? But shout out to Thomas Henderson in the chat, who is an absolute buffoon. I normally don't do this. But man, the comments coming out of this guy. He is an absolute idiot.

He apparently hates Max and thinks that Bitcoin is trash. I don't know why he's here. But I will just say two things. Have fun staying poor. And you will buy at a much higher price. Nature has its parasites. Without parasites, you know, your gut wouldn't work. And a lot of parts of the organisms of nature wouldn't

work either you know parent tapeworms are part of nature and parasites are part of of nature and uh you know they're all part of the ecosystem you know they're not good or bad it's not none of it is good or bad it's either got to be perfect or doesn't exist and that's we're heading into a perfect a perfect you know i i can go on on this path for a while but to comment on that guy it's the trolls and the haters and all these people, you know, this is, these are no corners that are going to be buying Bitcoin at much higher prices. So they're needed. You know, we need buyers of Bitcoin at $50,000 and $100,000 and $200,000.

Now, Noreal Rubini will complete the later $200,000. Peter Schiff will be begging to buy Bitcoin at $100,000, right? They need to no coiners to be, they're pent up buying the buying interest of Bitcoin or all the hate. You need the hate now to buy the coins later. But the shit manure is the, you know, manure is all their detritus. Like it provides the nutrients. The fertilizer. Spread that shit around, you know.

Fertilizer to keep the ecosystem going. Thomas says that you can't just all have the same views. Where are the dissenters? Thomas, we didn't get together and, you know, cooperate on having the same views. We're just telling you what the fucking truth is. So open up your fucking ears and listen. listen to it, you stupid bitch. I mean, he's keeping, he's, the, the Thomases of the world are allowing me to buy

cheaper sats. So in a way, we should be thanking him. That's cool, man. How did you come up with a phrase the doubting Thomas, right? The word Thomas, it's just, it's known in literature is the doubting Thomas. There's always a doubt. There's always a doubting Thomas. I know, right.

It's prophecy, man. We already have like five or six memes about this conversation happening. in telegram. If you go to Orange Pill, the Orange Pill group has already created all these memes and quotes. Right. I got to check that out. The dissenting case in this conversation,

it's really, I mean, so what's the question? What's the downside? What are we missing? What's the negative? You know, that the point is that we've already explored all the possibilities of the negative.

You know, We have, we have, what's negative has been thoroughly vetted. We, you know, we've been through, you know, the 20th century was no picnic. You know, mechanized warfare, hundreds of millions murdered, you know, for failed ideologies. You know, we already know what the downside is. Babies are dying. We're in the upside now. I also want to say as a literature scholar, as, you know, I went to school at university for

literature. And one thing, like we're talking about Renaissance, pre-Renaissance in the Middle Ages, the Dark Ages. We had Chaucer writing the Canterbury Tales. And, you know, there's always the Thomas character that comes in and farts in everybody's face. Like, that's the character of the Fiat Dark Ages. Somebody likes to go into a public space and fart because they like the smell and they like the noise. It's a funny noise. They're they're a coprofogists.

Yeah. They're coprophages. Like in that movie, you know, Pigslam. Mingoes with the character of divine, actually like to eat dog shit, right? She was a coprofogist. It's just like these doubting Thomases come in there and they're eating dog poop as it comes out of the dog's anus for because that's what they feel they need to do right now for some reason.

And I'm saying, go ahead and eat your dog poop. I'm not going to judge, but you're not making a worthwhile point. It's not germane to what we're having this conversation on. Oh, I'm so happy that I brought that up. I feel like people don't understand that we all start as skeptics. What do they think we're all just gullible morons who just fell into this? And then suddenly we were in the best performing asset of all time and we just continued to hold it and get richer and richer. No, you idiots.

We were skeptics too. And then we looked into it and realized that stupid we were being. You should do the same. You should do the same. I love it. It's, yeah, it's, again, like, The perma bears make me bullish, I think. Again, I guess to the very start of this episode,

we started talking about the level of cope on Twitter as we're like nearing all-time highs yet again and clearly moving into another 2017-style mania that will bolster us how many times over. As Fiat has seen, again, more than 20% of all U.S. dollars, printed this year, Fiat is melting, and there's still people that just cannot see it. And again, great, great. I get to stack cheaper sats.

I don't know. I'm going to toss it because I feel like we haven't heard from Gigi in a little bit. But Gigi, I know you kind of gave a reason for being bullish previously, but I just wanted to give you another opportunity to take us down any other rabbit hole before we start wrapping up. Yeah, thanks. I actually like to tag on to a few things. it's really hard for me to jump in.

I think I'll need a mouth soon because it's really hard for me to signal when I want to speak or not. But I think I like to say that everyone will get Bitcoin with an uppercase B at exactly the right time. And everyone will get Bitcoin with a lowercase B at exactly the right time. So it takes some time to wrap your head around how this works and what it is. And I think it will make click when you're ready for it. It's really hard to force someone into Bitcoin. It's like an opt-in network. You have to understand it for yourself.

You cannot make someone else understand Bitcoin and also develop a strong grip. So if you force someone into Bitcoin and like we could all give a couple hundred thoughts to Thomas and they would be wasted because if Bitcoin moons again or drops or whatever, he will part with his sets and it would just be sad. So we don't want to do that.

And I think a lot of people just have to come to grips with the fact that Bitcoin is a new force of nature, like Max said as well, you know, like it is this new kind of phenomenon. We have a second sun now that is rising every day. And you can be, when you understand nature, you can be very, very sure that the Bitcoin sun is rising, just like the normal sun will be rising. A lot of stuff has to be wrong in the universe for the sun not to rise again. And likewise, a lot of stuff has to be wrong in the universe for blocks not coming in again. And people will have to find a way to live with this new reality.

And I think the only way forward, the only way that makes sense and leads to prosperity is symbiosis. And we come back to this forest and nature idea. The only way forward is symbiosis with Bitcoin. If you try to fight it, you will lose out. Yeah, 100%. I'll let somebody else tag on to that if they'd like. Listen, there's a path to redemption for you, man.

Come see me or Max or Gigi or Ben. we'll dunk your bitch ass in the river and you will be born again, okay? So, all you got to do is buy Bitcoin. Act as if ye have faith and faith will be given to you. That's right.

We'll be ready for you when it's all will be forgiven. You know, plenty of people have been through this before. We've heard it all before from our friends, from our family, from everybody we know. We've been hearing it for years. Same arguments, same tired arguments.

But it's just, it just takes, that moment in time, as Gigi was alluding to, that moment where something in that person's life, something clicks and they look and they say, oh, oh, that didn't work with the current system for me. Oh, I see. And it takes those aha moments for everybody to get to Bitcoin, but the aha moment can be different for every person. They hit Fiat bottom. Yeah.

But I want to say as well, like Max and I met Safe Dina Moos in Beirut. 2011 and told him about Bitcoin. And at that time, he was a gold bug. And he was like, nah, nah, this sounds dodgy like a scam or like he didn't, he didn't understand it at that time. But then within a year, he emailed us back and he's like, how do I get some Bitcoin? Yeah. So, you know, even somebody like safety in a moose, like who is a great philosopher and thinker, an economist, and, you know, somebody who's managed to refine all of these complex ideas into simple messages in his books. So he's out now with a Fiat standard after his,

the Bitcoin standard. And so he didn't get it at first. So it's okay. Even like the biggest names in the space didn't necessarily get it at first. Max got it straight away. But he's like a freak of nature. Yeah. Yeah, I think we'd need maybe if somebody wants to send Thomas a copy of the Bitcoin and the Fiat standard, you know, maybe one day he'll read it. Dude, can I just say there's a video of Max from 2011-ish where he's pulling up the top 100 addresses and just immediately he's like, this is the new, this is the new wealthy elite. This right here. And he was right. He was right. You all should have been listening to him. I wish I had watched the show back then. Yeah, in Fiat terms, those people those like it was like 10,000 Bitcoin worth $10,000.

Yeah. But Max is saying like these, they're rich in Bitcoin. They've got 10,000 Bitcoin. I think the total market cap of the entire market was $5 million. Yeah. In 2011, yeah. He wants us to admit that we're all dirty capitalists. 100% were capitalists, right?

Like, is anybody here not a capitalist? Bitcoin is clean capitalism. Yeah. So no, we're not dirty. What does capitalism mean? Okay. I mean, it refers back to it in the Enlightenment and it refers, back to the work of Adam Smith and the idea of a decentralization in the marketplace where prices

would find an equilibrium based on supply and demand, and they didn't have price set by a central authority like the king, right? So that is what we refer to as free market capitalism, is decentralization, and you're removing this price discovery from a centralized authority, and you're putting it into the market. Now, what we have seen, and we see it now in the United States is that that price discovery mechanism is being co-opted by those who are printing the money. And they are creating prices or price discovery that is false in many ways and creating horrible outcomes. So simply by returning to absolutely scarce Bitcoin and by keeping this this enlightenment idea of free markets, we can make good on that promise of the enlightenment.

right? The Enlightenment was that we are sovereign individuals above the church. You know, that's the Enlightenment, right? Because we don't need, René Descartes, I think, therefore I am. He's saying that I can think for myself. I don't need a middleman. I don't need a middleman. I don't need anything between me and myself. I don't need any out. I don't need to be verify myself from a third party. I can verify myself. I'm thinking myself. Right. So all these ideas in the Enlightenment and free markets are part of those ideas and to put, you know, to put together what we see in the U.S. right now, which is a runaway rogue central bank injecting trillions and trillions of dollars of worthless paper and backing it up by violence, that is not what

Adam Smith was talking about, right? And, you know, Adam Smith wrote lots of books. The theory of moral sentiments was most of his work. Within that body of work, there was the book, The Wealth of Nations, and it talked about the invisible hand and things like that. But people tend to ignore that it's within the context of the moral sentiments, that there's a moral element to free markets. And we obviously have moved away from that if you have a centralized corrupt authority printing fiat and funny money to benefit the cantillionaire. who are the first in line to get this money and the outcomes are atrocious the outcomes are atrocious so that's that's a that's a bad take to say that we're a free market capitalist and and therefore

that is bad in some way that that's that's a thought that's a sentence that is taking two bad ideas and creating a terrible conclusion right again with bitcoin if you it's it's perfect price discovery and it would have disabused people of having the the burden of a non-functioning intellect. So this person has a non-functioning intellect because the components of his base of knowledge are not matching up in a way to clear the ideas through his brain like you see a block clear every 10 minutes.

Right? They're stuck. They're constipated. They're rotting. And he's feeling diarrhea. And that's pleasant. That's not pleasant for anybody. Just open your ears, you stupid fuck.

Do any of us sound like we want to perpetuate the current system? No, we don't. So this has been beautiful. I know that Max and Stacey are you're going to be doing something with Swan shortly, correct? Yep, Swan Bitcoin.com forward slash Stacy. Swart slash Max. So you guys. They say Stacy the Satz.

I'm dying over here. I got nothing. So if you haven't had enough of Mags and Stacey, make sure that you head over to the Swan. Are you guys doing a podcast? Are you doing something live? What are you doing? Yeah, they're just doing their Friday night lounge as well, their post- Thanksgiving lounge. But make sure everybody, you definitely go to the Orange Pill telegram group because there's loads of memes about the commenters and everything.

It's like they're picking it up and making hysterical shit. Like the one about Thomas is so funny. It's titled Thomas Put Away the Crayons. Thomas, we're sorry, but I mean, like, you'll grow up eventually and you'll be welcome. But it's T.m.E. double four slash orange pill. So orange pill is the group name on top. It's not a double forward slash. It's a single forward slash. Okay, whatever. I'll link it in the show notes after the fact. Anyways, what I wanted to do is I wanted to just go to each person or each feed, I suppose, and get any closing thoughts, any

words of wisdom moving into the Christmas season, into the new year for those burgeoning Bitcoiners, no-coiners, pre-coiners, anybody out there, whatever you want to toss out, and chill any links upcoming things that you would like. Let's start with Max and Stacey since you were just chatting and then we'll move on to Gigi and then Hoddle. Well, I will just pick up on what Max has already mentioned about Paul Tudor Jones saying that Bitcoin is a bet on humanity. And I think that's one of the most profound things I've heard from anybody in the Bitcoin space.

And it also happens to coincide with when I first met Max in 2003. I remember him telling me about Paul Tudor Jones. Like he was explaining markets and finance and Wall Street in his career then. He was talking about the financial architects and engineers and the hedge funds at the time when he was working on Wall Street and mentioned Paul Tudor Jones and talked about him. So when Paul Tudor Jones comes around to Bitcoin and, you know, I'm like, oh, great, like this legendary hedge fund guy in the space, everybody's a legendary investor. He's one of these, right? So, you know, when he came in in the second quarter of 2020, I'm like, oh, great, that's good. I know that guy. And then when he's just said in October that it's a bet on the future of humanity, of the power and the goodness of humans. Not the negative, like betting on gold and other things of like against the dollar or anything like that. Like that's like betting on just having yourself to survive where we have this Bitcoin community now and like ideas.

Like the power of ideas and our minds to carry us through the dark ages. Remember the Renaissance came about, right? Like during the bubonic plague, during the inquisition. Like, it's not like things were rosy back then. And yet we were able to create these masterpieces of wonder and love and art and greatness. And, you know, I think Bitcoin is a masterpiece. It is, as Max said brilliantly on stage in Mexico City, that it is a Sistine Chapel of money. Yeah, we have a lot of fun doing our live events.

You know, what I was thinking about was, you know, I do a lot of these podcasts. And the people on these podcasts are half my age. And so, you know, in two months' time, I'm going to be 61 years old. And one of the absolute abundant things about Bitcoin is that we're all kind of the same age. So, you know, typically people get in their 60s, they would tend to become maybe more cynical and maybe resentful about the fact that, you know, hey, I'm in my 60s. and these 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds are like, wow, they've got 40, 50, 60 years ahead of them. But on this conversation, I don't have that feeling, you know. I feel like we're of the same age.

We're aging in Bitcoin years, which is universal. You know, it's all the same. So, you know, it's, for me, it's a lot of, it's like a lot of fun. I can't think, you know, people I meet who are more, who are my age, you know, who are almost getting Social Security, they are, have one foot in the grave, to tell you the truth. They're already fucking old. So this is not the case. You know, it's really a different experience.

So you're saying like Bitcoin is the portrait of Dorian Gray? It's a portrait of Dorian Gray. There's another Max in the attic who's 90 years old and ruling on itself. While this Max is down here, you know, tap dancing is. way through Bitcoin fantasy land. Someday these two will meet. Hopefully I won't be around. Yeah, I'd agree.

I think Bitcoin, it rejuvenates people's demeanor because they once again have hope. Yeah. I'll toss it to Gigi. Any final thoughts, things you want to shell, anything. Yeah, absolutely. I was about to say that I'm bullish

on Bitcoin and bullish on Bitcoiners because Bitcoin is hope. And as we all know, the Gigacad, he actually set up hope.com to point to Bitcoin resources. So it's not just us that are saying that. Bitcoin is literally hope.com and everyone should check that out. And my advice to everyone listening to this is just realize how insanely early we are and that the world is literally just waking up to Bitcoin.

So just try to understand what's going on. And my number one advice to everyone is just set up out to DCA. Don't try to understand the markets. Don't try to time it. Don't try to trade it. if you're from the US Swan Bitcoin got you covered we heard that before there are other services popping up around all the world if you have to do it manually do it manually just but the best thing you can do is just set it up once and forget it set it up whatever

you can spare stop smoking stop drinking whatever you do like save some money or not stop drinking you know like you can have some margaritas and listen to the orange pill podcast but set up all the DCA and just just hope for a somewhat peaceful transition to the hyperbitconized future. I follow Gigi. I follow Gigi on Twitter. So this is Gigi, this is Gigi, this is all we know about Gigi? Yes, yes, it is.

Yes, it is. Yeah, that's it. Well, I'm glad to meet you. I didn't know you were an avatar. I didn't know you were, so thank you for everything you do on Twitter. You know, I'm kind of shocked, but that's great. But we were just laughing so hard because there's a meme in our orange pill telegram group of American ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-l forced baptizing Thomas. Thomas gets baptized in the top.

It says, buy Bitcoin, bitch. That's incredible. It is a genius one. It's really well-made. Hey, Max, I don't know if this is possible at all, but my good friend, Dave, is in the chat. and I don't know if you have any in hand. If not, I'll understand. But his name is BTC Hardy on Twitter. By the way, if you're not following him, follow him because he's had a rough first- camera. If I blocked him, I don't care of him.

No, no, no, no, no. You didn't block him. He said, No, he said, all I want for Christmas is to see Max rip up some filthy Fiat. Oh, sure. Where's some filthy Fiat? Yeah, let's get some. Dave, this one's for you, man.

So Dave came in at like in January of 2018. And he like comes into the OTC place I'm working at with like a stack of cash. And he buys like a bunch of Bitcoin, but then he also stacks like a bunch of ETH. And I was like, I sure you want to do? He's like, yeah. And then eventually he's now since obviously dumped the ETH and any other shit coin he was holding on to. And he's full on Bitcoin Maximilist. He he rode out the bear market like a champ,

continued stacking stats all the way down to the bottom he bought the dip in march he's like a fucking champ and he's primed and ready for the 2021 bull run so i you know if it's possible max he can take it away yeah artificial intelligence is a real threat and artificial intelligence the machines that run artificial intelligence are a real threat and the artificial intelligence driven machines are eating our souls and every once in a while these machines shit you know what they shit they shit this dirty fiat they shit this shit this is the shit that they shit this is the machine shit that comes out of their assholes and we need to get rid of it the only way to get rid of it is with bitcoin because it overpowers the artificial intelligence it sucks up all the energy in the

universe it'll turn us all into god and we will see for the first time who we really are and he can't do that with anything like this shit it'll never happen uh that was fantastic that was my favorite part of the whole episode okay i mean i i don't know how you're going to do it good bahadal you gotta finish follow that up with some parting dots good luck man oh man i can't fall i can't follow that so i just uh they should play me off like at the apollo fucking uh i was gonna i was gonna make a point about what zach and stacey were talking about about you know uh sort of the the generational thinking that pervades and i think like if you read peter teal's book zero to one there is the our grandparents generation right or like for max and stacey the

your father and mother's generation, you know, they were definite optimist. It was like, we're going to go kick Hitler's ass. We're going to put a fucking man on the moon. We're going to come home. You have a shitload of kids. Do backyard barbecues. It's going to be awesome. Epic, right, whatever.

And then you move in, you know, 71 happens and the fiat happens. And boomers are like, I don't know. Things are pretty good. They're going to keep staying good. It was buy bonds, equities. Go to the beach. You know, whatever, man. We'll figure it out, right?

And then you move into our generation. We're sort of definite pessimists. And we're like, shit sucks fucking 9-11 war on terror, fucking coronavirus, fucking the mortgage crisis, like all this shit, right? And Bitcoin is putting us back to definite optimist because it gives us a plan. And that plan is to huddle and stack stats and fucking set the world straight. It's also to cut your own hair and have a bunch of kids and basically be, you know, like an insane modern day version of somebody from the 19th century. 50s in post-war war war two. That's what we're doing with Bitcoin, and you need to fucking get your hands on as much as you

possibly can. And Thomas Henderson is going to stay poor, but he's not going to have any fun because he's a miserable troll. Go fuck yourself unless you want to get forced baptized and then come see him. Amazing. Guys, thank you all for watching. Thank all the guests for being here. Max, Stacey, Hoddle, Gigi.

I had a blast. This really made my Friday. I hope anybody in the, US had a great thanksgiving. But yeah, thank you guys so much. Everybody that's here, thanks for watching. Holy shit. There's been a solid viewership the whole time.

The chat's been buzzing away. Smash that like button. Give this a share wherever you are. And the links to Twitter accounts are in the show notes down below, but I'll add in some other relevant links afterwards. So guys, thank you so much. All right. See you guys later.

I'm going to cut your video audio. And everybody that's watching the feed, again, thank you so much for watching and or listening. If you're here on YouTube, hit like, subscribe, and share all of those things. Really, really do help. If you want to help out the show in another way, you can hit the sponsors I previously mentioned down below. That was Ledden. That was Kobovol, that was the guys at CryptoCloaks, and that was Bit Refill. They're all down there.

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