BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Glenn Hodl, Peter McCormack, Bitcoin Gandalf, Galactic Hodl ep219

Episode Date: November 27, 2021

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/glennhodl https://twitter.com/BTCGandalf https://twitter.com/PeterMcCormack https://twitter.com/MaitreyaMatty 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shakepay is the easiest way to buy Bitcoin in Canada Sign up now and get $30 free after your first $100 purchase! https://shakepay.me/r/BTCSESSIONS LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $10 free with a savings balance of $75 or more for 15 consecutive days! https://start.ledn.io/btcsessions Get Wasabi wallet for Bitcoin privacy https://wasabiwallet.io/ Keystone Wallet: secure your Bitcoin! http://bit.ly/KeyStoneSessions BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards, earn sats back while you shop. https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 BITCOIN tips: https://strike.me/btcsessions

Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. Got ourselves a killer panel, a largely British panel. Two-thirds of that British panel mostly made it here on time. And we're fully prepared and ready to go. So it should be very excited.

Everybody is already here now. They're all backstage, ready to go. But as we know from Why Are We Bullish, anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live.

I'll write it and we'll do it live. And thing sucks. If you haven't already, make sure you like, subscribe, share. All those things really do help. I hope you're having a good Black Friday. The biggest sale that I've seen today is Bitcoin itself. So I hope you're stacking some extra sats on this fine Black Friday. Don't be spending too much money, folks.

That's too much for an opportunity cost. Of course, as always, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our panel, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. Bitbo.com. dashboard. We're sitting at $55,081 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 1,815 sats. 89.92% of all Bitcoin have been mined, 90% within the year. Only two sats per byte for next block. Wild. One sat per bite will do you if you're willing to wait more than a half an hour.

Not too bad. Sponsorses a show, of course. If you're stacking sats in Canada, shake pace the way to do it. It's super, super easy. No deposit fees, no withdrawal fees. The spread is super thin, so some of the best rates in Canada. Also, they've got a $30 referral right now. So if you sign up using the link down below and spend your first $100, so give you $30 for free. And if you refer a friend, you guys both get the same deal.

And then you get to shake your phone for free sats every single day. If you get on a streak, that number goes up too. So check them out. Links are down below. Of course, if you're in a pinch and you need to get your hands on dollars, but you don't want to sell your Bitcoin because taxable event and you don't want to be buying back in at a higher price. You can check out leaden.com, deposit Bitcoin, get dollars to your bank account within 24 hours, pay back the dollars, get back the same amount of Bitcoin. That's the important part.

They do have savings accounts, of course, for Bitcoin in USDC. And if you're feeling mega bullish, B2X is there for you. I live on Bitcoin. Bit refill helps a ton. Every conceivable gift card you can imagine in a ton of different countries. you can pay via Bitcoin, on chain and lightning, and you're in stats back as you shop, so check them out. Keystone's got their Black Friday thing going on right now.

You guys know these air gap, beautiful hardware wallet. You can use it in a multi-sig works with blue wallet, Wasabi, Specter, Sparrow, tons of great stuff. And yeah, 20% off. Check them out. Links are in the show notes. And finally, if you're backing up any important hardware wallet or software wallet, for that matter,

get it in solid steel, paper doesn't always cut it. you know, fire damage, water damage, all that stuff. Bill Fottle, Privacypros.io. And that's linked down below as well. Enough of my rambling, though. Let's get our friends in here. We've got the man, the myth, the legend, Bitcoin Gandalf. We got Glenn Hoddle.

And before I bring in the other guests, you guys will have a hell of a time telling who's talking. So good luck with that. We also have Galactic Hoddle. And we have the man himself, Mr. Peter McCormick, who was super punctual and fully prepared for this. Thank you all for being here. Let's just do a quick down the line and get some intros on behalf of yourself

so people know who you are, what you do. Gandalf, let's start with you. A little intro, please. What's up, everyone? Yeah, I'm Bitcoin Gandalf. I guess, like, related to Bitcoin, I work at brains and slush pool, helping them out with social media. and then I'll keep my Fiat life private.

Yeah, that's me. You also reside on my mug here. There we are. Yeah, so there you are. I got that just for today. So thanks for being here, man. Glenn, how about yourself? Any little intro, or are you just keeping that private?

No, I mean, it's hard to know what to say, really, other than, yeah, one of England's greatest ever footballers. turned shit poster and some very average charting. But yeah, representing the British here today. That's great. I'm super happy to have you here. Peter, welcome to the show. Punctual as ever, fully prepared,

definitely not looped up on CBD and other things to put you to sleep. How are you doing that? Yeah, I'm good. Glad to get out of bed for this. I'll be known as Murrah Hoddle this evening to celebrate the Slovenian giant of European football. That's fantastic. Well, I'm glad to have you, friend. And Galactic Hoddle.

How you doing, man? Good evening. Good to be here. Just grateful, just having a beautiful time. And I'm showing up as kind of like a yogi, wild mystic class of 21 Bitcoin. I'd say that my expertise in the space is, is not so technical, but I'm coming at it from a background of prophecy and enlightenment. We'll get into that when I talk about. But yeah, it's just been an interesting

journey. Like I learned about Bitcoin and then like a month later I was running a node and then you know, that's that's that's Jesus. I'm still not running one. Get on it. See, this is the beauty of of of kind of this cycles and and seeing the difference cycle cycle because you can have noobs that come in and the learning curve can be pretty quick if they get turned onto the right material, which is, which is awesome. Also, you're on this show because I tweeted out, hey, we need some last minute people in here and you tweeted out a pretty interesting topic. So I just shot you a DM and here we are. So thanks for being here, man. And thank you all for being here. Everybody that's watching right now, of course,

Thanks for being here as well. I do see the chat starting to go. I will pull in comments like this once in a while. Pete is a smuck. I think schmuck is what they're going. I hate her. Original. But we will be pulling in comments from time to time.

And if anybody's unfamiliar with how this show works, basically really simple. It's called Why Are We Bullish? Because we're going to tell you why. We go by the three hours. somebody is going to give a reason why they're bullish, then altogether we'll riff on that reason, and then we'll rotate to the next.

Really, really easy. And I'm going to get us started off, guys. So I've got visual accompaniment to bring to my reason. My reason right now is the sentiment. That's why I'm bullish. And the narrative and how ridiculous it is right now of the bearishness across the board. apparently it's because of COVID that Bitcoin dipped.

I don't know if you guys were aware of this, but this is why it's down. According to CNBC, Bitcoin enters bare market territory as risk assets plunge on new COVID variant. Bitcoin tumbles as coronavirus variant seeks riskier assets are dumped. It retreats 20% record joining risk asset selloff. Bloomberg, again, down 20% entering a bare market. I just so you know guys it's a bear market again because of COVID the I don't know if you guys have

ever seen this website but there's a fear and greed index and we've been basically like hitting up the fear pretty regularly in the past week but the hilarious thing is here's the here's the zoomed out this is like over the course of the past year we're literally up from this day last year they're almost $38,000. $221% since this day last year. And everybody's like freaking out. It's dead. It's dead.

And it's so funny because the last time that Bitcoin quote unquote sold off because of said reasoning here would have been March of 2020 when we were down. And it was a much deeper sell-off, granted, and a global. But the last time that that was kind of trumpeted as a main reason for it was in March of 2020, to my recollection. And that was one of the best opportunities we've seen. And to see us basically sitting around the price points that we were hitting back in April, May, as highs, when everybody was absolutely euphoric and excited. And again, I don't typically, my reasons are very seldom in and around price on this show.

But just to see us sitting where we are and everybody be so down and kind of upset other than like, you know, the people that we're all kind of friends with on Bitcoin Twitter that kind of know what's up and are happy to stack cheap sats. Like everybody else is, it's like they're depressed about it. They're sad. And I find it hilarious. So I don't know. I'm just curious and I'll open this up to everybody. What have you guys seen like amongst, particularly more amongst your normie friends, amongst your, you know, people that you interact with online in person?

How are they feeling? Are they, are you getting those messages? What's going on? Even even a good friend of mine who knows what's up. message me. He's like, why did drop? What's going on? So I don't know. What do you guys think? Yeah. I mean, so Gandalf and I are in a little brick coin pleb group on on Twitter. And firstly, I would say, if you ever try to have a group chat in Twitter DMs, it's hell. It doesn't scale to like 90 people, but there we are. I reckon within that group, we, we must have

between us and I didn't take most of this, bought about at least one Bitcoin today, maybe more. And the overall sentiment in that group's been massively bullish. It's like it's on sale. So yeah. You know, this, whatever this, I saw they gave it a name tonight, this thing. And they didn't call it Z because they didn't want to piss off the president of China. But yeah.

Yeah. It's fud, but it's markets. And we're still connected to the legacy markets, sadly. This is pretty par for the course also on Black Fridays from what I recall. Like, it's never, I haven't, I don't recall there being a lot of up Black Fridays. Typically you get, you know, the Fiat mindset sets in and everybody wants to go and buy shit that's on sale and they'll go and pay in Bitcoin

and then that gets dumped unless you're doing it through a merchant that's actually going to hold the Bitcoin. So I don't know. Yeah. And J.C. in the chat too is saying Bitcoin drops every Black Friday. People sell the precious Bitcoin to buy silly things.

And I'd echo that. But I don't know. Did anybody else here buy something today? I did buy something today, but not because it was Black Friday. just out of necessity. But I do. You have to eat.

I just, I find the irony so prescient that, you know, on Black Friday, where across the spectrum of media, it's like, everything's on sale and there's coupons for everything. But if Bitcoin goes on sale, it's the end of the world. It's like not supposed to happen. But everything else is cheaper relatively. But I was also watching, Russell Brand did an interesting podcast about Black Friday and some consumer groups were looking at the prices of items and it's like this Black Friday items aren't exactly cheaper relative to a price increase and then six months ago they were actually

cheaper than they are today. It's just that today's sale makes it seem like they were cheaper than a couple months ago versus like six months ago to a year. But overall the prices are getting higher. Go figure. That's actually funny and that is a good point that given, given, Given the inflation that we've seen this past year, your Black Friday deal is just as if inflation hadn't happened over the past six months.

That's your deal. Great. Pete, what about you? You make any D-Gen? Did you buy any Aston Martins today or anything? Is he cut? There we go. He's already falling asleep.

I didn't. I bought a football club. Hey, there you go. There, that's all you need. I wanted to ask about this. It's chilling after five minutes. What's the story? Let's go.

I can't tell the whole story yet because contractual things are sold out. But by January, I will own a football club. Congrats, man. That's awesome. That is fantastic. Do you think it'll be profitable? Can you make it profitable? Oh, yeah, that bit's easy.

Yeah, there's a solid thesis behind it. I think the profitability is easy. It's just trying to get promotion every year is the real challenge because even if you have the best players in the world, it can still be hard, right? I mean, yeah, in any league, when you study football, people have come into football with loads of money at all different levels and they haven't been able to, you know, get a promotion for whatever reason.

The manager isn't right. The team doesn't gel. They're unlucky, but we're going to make them the Bitcoin Club. It should be fun. I was going to say, is there going to be some sort of, you got to have some Bitcoin something all over there. If you're not seeing the shirt, you're not seeing the shirt I posted on Twitter that I've, no. No, I didn't see it. Can I post something can hear to you?

I mean, yeah, there's a, there's a private chat on the side and then I can pull it up. It doesn't have images. Let me send, uh, if you, send them, send them the tweet. I find them the tweet. Yeah, send them the tweet and then I'll share it on the screen. Yeah, that's find it goes back. of it. It's not like the actual, I here we go, it's not the actual design, but like, it was just me mucking around with some ideas. Yeah, I chucked it in there. Did you put it in? Oh,

yeah, there it is. Hold on. Okay, let's, let's see this. I got a, okay, hold on. Okay, hold on. All right, so we got, share. There it is. Beautiful, McCormick. Oh, yeah, yeah, you got the Bitcoin on the sleeve okay and in the shirt look in the shirt like oh yeah yeah there's some more there needs to be done like

pre-advertising for Bitcoin yeah it needs a name all these football clubs they have like the year they're established but I think we're gonna have the block we were established in and some just cool shit like that that's awesome that's it's there was some

discussion as to whether it's going to be real Bedford or Rayal Bedford It's Rayo, like Rail Madrid. Like there's some fake Bedford out there. No, it's Rayo, like Rail Madrid. Yeah, if you want to take it really to the next level, all your players need to be named Satoshi Nakamoto.

You don't want to be Bedford Hotspur, huh? Because there's only one Hotspur, so you can be the same. I don't want to curse us. Well, then that would be quite funny. Bedford Hotspur and get bigger than Tottenham. Now I want to do it. You might be it. Well, you did just lose to the giants of Slovenian football.

And it's Murer. I didn't get the reference. Yeah, it's a bit of a niche English joke here, I'm afraid, Ben. Isn't the winner the guy's called the winner a plumber or something? I have no idea what's going on. I turned off by that point. Ben, Ben, just to explain it. basically Tottenham are cursed as a team.

It doesn't matter who they have managed them, whatever they do, they're always shit. And occasionally they nearly get good, but then they always, they always choke, whatever it is, where it's the league or the Champions League. They have actually got one trophy in the cabinet at the moment. I found this out today.

This is a fact. Do you know this, Glenn? But Audi Cup? No, they've got the under 16, no, they are the under 16 female champions at the moment. That is a fact. they're so and they always make out like they're a big club but um but they're not this is

this makes me sad this this makes me sad because it's it sounds like my local hockey team and uh they they they they want a Stanley Cup back in like the 80s and uh unfortunately they haven't done anything since they almost want to Stanley Cup in like 2004 And everybody all jazzed up about it. And then they lost. And everybody just goes to the games and is sad now. And yeah, so that's, I don't know. I'm, I'm disillusioned from that from years of having a crappy local team,

just barely make it. So it is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was going to ask on the, on the, on the, to wrap up the, the sentiment thing here before we get into. Gandoff's reason for being bullish, but

is like every Black Friday when I'm looking at stuff, I typically never there's nothing good to buy. I did get one thing today. I did get the because I don't know,

Bitcoiners, I do like having Bitcoin shit on my shelves and books and stuff like that. So I did get the print copies of Bitcoin magazine. That was the one thing that I got today. But I did pay with a credit card. So I didn't spend stats on that.

So I don't know. Like it's originally Bitcoin Black Friday was kind of a big deal because people were excited about spending their Bitcoin back in like the Roger Vair era. And now it seems like anti, not anti Bitcoin, but it seems like it's, it's counter. to the the current values of Bitcoin that most people, unless they're like actively living on Bitcoin and it's something they were going to buy anyways, you know, Bitcoiners aren't really a culture of like, let's go spend a shit ton of money just because. Do you think that Bitcoin Black Friday will continue to actually be a thing that gets much attention? Or do you think that's just going to be gone? I didn't even know, what is Bitcoin Black Friday? I didn't even know that was a thing.

there it is a thing there's a website there's literally a website I'm gonna pull it oh is this is Pete is this where you're selling the ticket the Metallica thing I'm not selling it okay sorry not you I'm not like a mercenary they're sending it to raise money it's charity right yes for charity I didn't know the

fucking price I was like no one's gonna pay that to hang out with me oh they might come on let's why don't we tell how much is it it's 21000 US dollars to get a watch Metallica with Pete in Las Vegas but the money goes to charity.

Some guy was tweeting. Somebody tweeted thinking it's like me. I'm charging it and I'm like keeping the money. The real question is, are you going to give them a wristy in the stands? Or is that? No, I'm a taken man. Well,

that's fair, I guess. Unless she buys it, she should buy it really. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. There you go. Well, I mean, I think there's a market for Bitcoin stuff. You know, good, well-thought-out Bitcoin stuff.

I've got some here. I'm wrong way around. Nice magazines. I thought that the private public key thing that got put out a month or so ago was, you know, the fractaling crypt, the guy that's been making those enormous. physical full node things he he did he did something cool night well i think gandolph you bought one right and i bought two sort of by accident yeah and i bought them with bitcoin because you had to and then

replaced it yeah well that's that's there are times if you're all in yeah you're going to have to spend some bitcoin if you want to buy something because and that's that's basically me like most of like i'd say 90 percent of my income is Bitcoin at this point. Like the only income that I don't get in Bitcoin is just any any YouTube, um, like ad revenue or anything like that because obviously they're not going to pay me in sets. But outside of that, like I basically just have to at the beginning of the month when invoices come in, I just convert whatever I need for my bills. And then the rest just stays in sats. So then it has to be an active, active decision. of, oh, I need to spend money.

Do I need to spend this? And so it adds like a pain point of, of, of, it adds a hurdle to, to spending my Bitcoin. So, but I do agree. And I love the, I love the idea that there are like the Citadel 21 guys being like, hey, we made a product and we only accept Bitcoin. and if you know if it's good enough then then you'll buy it right i have a subscription to citadel 21 because i i like that kind of stuff so what have you got there p what are you pulling out these my citadel 21s yeah you've got them all sleeved up too yeah these are going to be like

a collector's item one day i have my i have my first edition yeah do you guys have first have number one i do yeah yeah oh damn i don't have them all i have Number one in like six, I think it is. So I think you can get that from two to ten on Bitcoin Black Friday for $179. But shipping to the UK is like, broken. I'm going to kill everything if I do that. Yeah. You smash your block clog.

I'm going to keep it there with me. Yeah, they do have, they do have like block clogs and sales. So there is some good stuff on there. but yeah like again it's no corners aren't really huge consumerist culture so you know you pick and choose I suppose if you're already thinking about getting something then it's then it's nice that you've got a little bit of money off today and you might might help you pull the trigger but I don't think I don't know I don't go shopping just because something's cheaper than normal I just buy stuff whenever I need it yeah yeah it gets a black Friday and I've already bought everything I needed so I don't end up buying anything really

Yeah, I'm lucky enough that on occasion I get free shit sent to me. So that's that's that's a nice little bonus from time to time. But yeah, I don't know. Either way, it was a short topic. I think I'm just going to wrap this one up because, you know, who cares? But let's let's keep going with this. Everybody in the chat, keep those comments coming. By the way, I will start pulling up more now that it's not my topic.

but order has changed because Gandalf dropped out. So he's back. I see him there. Yeah, that was my fault. I clicked the bottom. No, no worries, no worries. But Glenn, is it cool if I go with you next for your reason for being? Yeah, pressure.

So yeah, I mean, it's funny that we've, yesterday it was looking pretty bullish and then wake up this morning and like prices down. So we're not bullish about that. But, I mean, there's plenty. There's a few that I was going to choose from. I was going to kind of thinking about what went down in El Salvador last week and the Bitcoin bond, which I think was very cool, but maybe someone else will talk about that. So the thing I was going to talk about was another brick coin pleb, Dave Dustpan, who put out

a tweet a couple of days ago that for the first time he wiped and restored his hardware wallet. And it's maybe an unremarkable thing for some of us, but Dave, Dave, he's a guy, I've made him a couple of times. He's, he's, I think by his own, a mission, incredibly untechnical. This guy is a laborer. He has his own kind of kitchen fitting business. But he's a, he's a bitcoins like us. And he, uh, he took it upon himself to, to take his Bitcoin into his own custody. He figured out what he was doing. He wiped his device, put back his seapray, restored everything.

And yeah, I mean, he got a lot of love for that on Twitter. Wow, this is wild. As a, I hope you're being serious there, Pete. I do. You know what? I appreciate that because there's a lot of people are scared to take those steps. Like I imagine. I'll tell you why. Yeah. You comment, but I'll tell you why that makes me bullish. But yeah. No, you tell me. I want to hear. No, no. Yeah. So, so the reason is that we should all be doing it. And I get, I get some DMs and I got a DM a couple of weeks ago from a guy saying like, you know, everyone talks about it all the time. But why can't I just leave all my coins on Coinbase.

And the answer is, yeah, hopefully you're going to be okay if they all stay on an exchange, but you're probably, you're taking this risk. And there's no reason not to. And it's not as scary as people think. And the fact that we've got people out there who have got to the point in their kind of Bitcoin journey where they've bought some, they've seen the price go up. and they've decided that they're going to actually take things into their own hands and make sure they can keep hold of these.

I think that's pretty bullish. I do love seeing, especially like you're describing this guy as somebody who's, what he was kind of scared of the steps previously or was hesitant? Completely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I think a lot of people, get surprised when they when they actually just try for the first time right when and that you know they it's magical it is that that first time that you you're like oh my god what what am i doing and you you wipe a hardware wallet and then you use the the the words and you type them in you're like there's no way this is going to and then the money's there and and so i think that's a that's a a huge step for a lot of people, like just taking self-custody. And you were talking about leaving money on Coinbase run in exchange. And people initially jump to, oh, well, you know, the odds of the exchange getting hacked and losing all my money or slim. But I'd say the bigger

threat there is somebody actually getting your password, like being able to access the account, to like sim swap, all that kind of stuff. Because oftentimes in those situations, you're not covered, right? Like there's a lot of exchanges will have some type of insurance if they're at fault. But I've heard horror stories of, you know, Coinbase users, other users of different exchanges where it's like, oh, clearly you were negligent with your passwords or whatever happened. We're not at fault. So you're just, you're not covered for that.

And somebody accesses their account and just sends the money out. And it's not that the exchange had security holes. It's that the individual, you know, maybe their password was on, it was leaked on another website and people just tried a whole bunch of exchanges to see if they had an account there. Or maybe there was a sim swap or something like that. And unfortunately, in those instances, you just kind of shit out of luck. So it's a lot easier for your passwords to be, you know, leaked in some, dump of, you know, I've had it happen to me where not an exchange, but where I've had a

password leaked and I stupidly had the same password on like Twitter or something and on my email. And so I had a couple accounts compromised. Somebody locked me out of my Twitter for a while like four years ago and was trying to blackmail me for for money. And I luckily got back control of my account. But like that shit can happen. happen. And it's more difficult to gain access to your Bitcoin if you're holding your own keys in, in a, you know, custody your own keys and doing it with a hardware wallet that, you know, is kept safely. And you have a backup safely somewhere. You're much more secure. And it seems counterintuitive to people that are used to the legacy financial system. But it's a learning

curve and and, you know, kudos to anybody that takes that step. It can be scary, but yeah, that is bullish. I like that. I'm curious, Galactic, since your new class of 21, you said, what was your first experience with self-custody kind of getting down that rabbit hole? Like, was it scary? How did you handle those hurdles? You know, fortunately, there's a lot of resources out there you included. Like, kudos to you. Yeah, you helped me on my journey for sure in your, in your tutorials and stuff like that. So there's no Darth of resources out there.

It's like an abundance of options and availability. And I think the biggest hurdle that, you know, was for me, was getting over this like sense of sovereignty and this sense of like, I am my own bank now. Like, I am fully responsible. people don't like to be responsible for a great many things in their life but to to then ultimately take responsibility for like the wealth you know and and all that entails and all the ways that manifests as bitcoin can become like that you know placeholder for anything that holds value in your life to be and ultimately take responsibility for that that was for me i'd been looking for this

for a long time. And so it wasn't, for me, it wasn't that hard of a personal step. But as I've gone on to Orange Pill, other people in my life and friends and stuff like that, as I explained to them like, hey, you want to get this off the exchange. You want to take your own hardware wallet. And they're kind of like, you know, well, how does this all work? Why do I do this? And I'm just like, like, kind of like passing the baton of like, like, this is you

taking charge of your life in a huge way. and it will begin to permeate your being in the way you act, the way you think in all these ways, as I think every Bitcoiner can truly, you know, espouse to. But I think that's like the biggest hurdle is really just like the gravitas of like, no one's holding your hand through this. There's no marketing team on the other end. You fuck this up.

Yeah. You kind of fucked up. But hey, in the end of the day, like you. But if you get it right, you're there. Yeah, exactly. You are the keeper of your destiny now. Yeah. It's pretty heavy the first time you,

you dive into it. I don't know. Like, I mean, Pete, when did you, when did you first kind of self-custody for the very first time? All Pete's coins are on Coinbase. A couple of weeks ago. No, I, I did it back in 2000, right, fairly near the start of 2017, when I first got back into Bitcoin. I just got myself a ledger. And, yeah, I didn't find it too. scary. I found it was

fairly easy that kind of first time. What I found more scary is over time thinking shit I'm relying on this one device and then if you've got this one device it's like where do you back up the keys? It's like right, okay, what if I if you leave it in the safety deposit, what if

the safety deposit gets broken into? We had a big case in the UK of a bunch of guys in their 70s who broke into a safety deposit place and you know, empty to all the boxes to all the money and jewelry. So that's a risk. It's like, okay, do I do a Winkle Vars and do I split it up and put it in three locations? But what if one of those gets stolen and you've only got two left?

You know, you don't have the foot. Like there's a lot to think about. So the biggest step really was going to multi-sig. That was a much bigger step. How do you like it? And is it, like, you've digged around. You've used ledgers before. Are you using like multiple different types of devices now? Yeah, I've got a leisure, treasur and a cold card. And I use a them on my multi-sig. And that I put off for a while just because it felt like a lot of effort because you're like, okay, now I've got like multiple keys. I've got to put them into multiple locations and yeah, the other.

But like when you actually do it, it's a lot easier and a lot simpler than having a single hardware wallet because you don't actually have to back up your private keys. Because you've got five. It's a three or five signing. If you lose one, then you just swap that one out. So it's a lot less to worry about with the multi-sig. It's just a big step, like to get your head around what it is and how it works. And, you know, whether you go with unchained or car or do it yourself.

I mean, I couldn't do it myself. I'd have to go. I had to go through a service that taught me through. It has a UX for it. But I, you know, I think self-custodies, it isn't that big a deal. You know, someone emails me. I'm like, just buy a device, send yourself 10 bucks, write down your seed words, wipe it, reinstall it with your seed words.

And that $10 magically there. So now you understand it. And then just make sure you back up your private keys and hide them somewhere really good. I mean, maybe just because I've been doing it for so long. But I mean, I'm pretty sure I did it within a couple of months of getting back into Bitcoin early 2017. Yeah. I think it's easy for us to underestimate what that means to someone that is used to having a bank, having someone you can call, having, you know, banknotes that you can stick in your drawer.

or whatever. We shouldn't play it down. We shouldn't play it because everyone should be doing it. And it is daunting. It is like whatever you say, Peter, it is daunting. Yeah. It comes down to the person though. For some people, it's no big deal.

They're like they can get onto self-custodying quite easily and it doesn't seem like a huge deal to them. Maybe if you're more tech savvy or you just understand that aspect of Bitcoin when you go to do it. And then there's other people who are like technophobic or they just aren't good with or they don't have a lot of self-confidence and for them it's a huge step. So I really think it just depends on the person. It's not that like self-custodying is this hugely amazing, incredible thing on its own.

Yeah. I was going to say, I also think, look, as much as some people don't like it, there is a reality for some people to self-custody is a bigger risk than having other people custody it for themselves. Like my dad is, my dad's a perfect example. example, every time we go and visit him, he's got a list of things after fixing his computer. He still can't remember how to get like Netflix on. I tried to set him up with like a password manager once, and it was a nightmare, and he just

couldn't use it. He's not proficient. He would be nervous. If he ever bought Bitcoin, he would have it custody somewhere. And that's the risk he would take, knowing that if something went wrong, yada, yada. I think we're long beyond some of these large custodians ever being hacked. I think they've got this stuff pretty nailed down. I think we should always be teaching people and advising and saying, look, not your keys, not your Bitcoin, you should do it.

But there is a reality is that we are going to have, well, we do have large custodians. And that's not going away in the short term. Yeah. I think it'll take quite a bit of time. And I mean, realistically, they'll always exist in some capacity. I hope that it gets to the point where for the majority, if there's any sort of custody involved, it ends up being like collaborative multi-sick, like a CASA or unchanged or something like that. And that's kind of, it replaces the norm of just like giving all access to some entity. I think that would be nice to really push towards that as like an end goal.

will we get there? I don't know. People are fucking lazy and scared and don't want to try new things. It might be a generational thing. I don't know. Let's be realistic here. What do we think? Not the ideal of what we want,

but what do we think is actually going to play out? Let's say 20 years from now, where are we at? Is it better in terms of more people's self-custy? taking self-custody, or is it worse because of the amount of normies coming in? Well, necessity is the mother of invention, right? And I mean, already we're seeing it, all of this process simplified more and more and more to the point where I was able to figure out, you know, and I'm, I'm tech savvy. It's just part of my generation, but I'm not a coder by any means.

It's like, I, you know, I'm like learning how to like GPG signature in my Spectre wallet, you know, and like figuring out how to do that in Terminal. I'm like, that's new to me, right? And I think, but that's the fact that I'm able to do that and then use Specter Wallet to set up a multi-sig through just a proper U.S. is awesome. And I think that's just going to get easier and easier to the point where it's just like, input this, press this button, here's your, here's your wallet. you know and and I've traveled all over the world and I've hung out with people in very impoverished situations who now use smartphones and look at El Salvador now as that population is picking up and

you know starting to maybe they're walking they're not running yet with Bitcoin lightning but they're certainly picking it up and that will only evolve the time I have faith in our ability to do that I like your optimism I hope that I hope that's the direction that we have head. And again, yeah, it's if it becomes a necessity when it becomes clear that if there's some some very easy instances to be able to point to and say, hey, this is why. And it's not like we haven't had them in the past, you know, like here in Canada, Quadriga CX was a famous one. Mount Gawks was like the mother of all, you know, back in 2014. So there are instances of that. but I think it becomes real if you ever see like a state clamp down and and take the funds of an exchange.

Like as obscure. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Even if it's really obscure and it's some country where the, you know, the mainstream news is like, well, it's just this place. You know, like it's even if it gets played off like that, I think it will be, it will perk up some eyebrows if something like that were to happen. But don't let it if you're watching this, self-custody. Get a hard word wall. It's not too hard.

I got less of tutorials. So let's keep this thing rolling. I'm going to move on to our next reason for being bullish. I'm going to mix it up a little bit from the order I said before. I'm actually going to go to Pete next. And then we'll take Gandalf and then we'll go Galactic. So Pete, what are you excited slash bullish? about this week? What has your eye?

What's on your mind? You're muted. Pete, you're muted. And Carl B. Sorry. Yeah, so whatever happens with the price, I'm bullish because like we are at like $54,000, $53,000

and only a year ago we're at $10,000. So like price-wise, we're not going back to that. So it sucks for anyone who's new, who's maybe like coming the last few months and, you know, quite high, but like 95% of people who've been here for long enough that, like, we're in $54,000 of Bitcoin. You know, I remember times of people saying, well, we ever get back to $20,000? And we did.

So price-wise, we're really bullish. The other thing that's making me super bullish is, like, the volume of unbelievable news that you're seeing nearly every day is incredible. You know, we had some big things happen in 2017, but like, nothing like this. It's like every single day, it's something like, oh, don't. Beckham Jr. is getting paid in Bitcoin. Some bank in Switzerland's launch and a fund. Some bank here is allowing people to custody Bitcoin. You know, it's just a constant stream of big news. It's like we're really,

we're really starting to kind of cross the chasm now and Bitcoin is just a part of life now. It's like you don't go, nobody ever asked you, you know, if you mention Bitcoin, they're like, huh, what's that? Everyone's heard of it now. They might not understand what it is. And I'm also, I'm feeling like we're starting to see some shift in the narrative with the mainstream. So, you know,

we're starting to see some better reporting regarding as Bitcoin limited. But we're also seeing like the flip side is that we have all, you know, nobody's believe in any of the bollocks that's coming out of government anymore. It's just like a constant stream of bullshit. And everyone's like, huh, what is this bullshit?

So I feel like we're, we're at that point now where we're going to look back to this year and go, wow, what a massive year this was. Look at everything happened. The Bitcoin went to this price. You know, all these sports people took on Bitcoin. All these banks started accepting Bitcoin. So I think the reason to be bullish is because it's been a unfucking believable year of nonstop amazing things. We have a country on Bitcoin.

We have Tesla with Bitcoin. It's just, it's just the only reason to not be bullish is because you're annoyed that the price isn't to the $69,000. It hasn't gone up every month continually forever. But it's never done that anyway. So I just think there's just so much to be bullish about you. It's not like one thing. It's just the stream of amazing stuff that's happened this year. It's funny because you take any one of those stories,

even just like an individual, a public-facing individual taking Bitcoin as payment. And you take that story and you drop it in the middle of 2014, 2015, it would be like Reddit, you know, which was where everybody went at the time. But Reddit would just like explode and it would be all anybody was talking about. Now it's like, who's, I don't know, whatever. Some guys getting paid in Bitcoin.

Okay, cool. And you talk about it for a day. It may be like, go comes across your feed. You're like, oh, yeah. That's it. Oh, oh, El Salvador just bought the dip and bought a hundred Bitcoin and added it to their balance sheet. Okay. Well, they've done that a bunch before though.

So whatever. you know like the other thing is then is like even after from 2017 to 2020 it's not like it's not like um I would say as I thought Bitcoin was done but there were times you thought it's like

is this really going to be a thing is it still just a few kind of like nerds and Wall Street people who speculated that are into this but like is it done like will it get banned and now it's just like this is here you know any Bitcoin you

down now, you're definitely going to be regretting in four years' time if you've not replaced it. Like, this is here. And it's like, how big does this thing get and how quickly does it get? But it's, uh, unbelievable year. Yeah. It's, it's, it's been pretty insane. And, and I think all it takes is just anybody who's been through a single kind of like

bull and bear cycle and, and, and come around the bend, they, they recognize kind of the, the flow of the narrative of, of, you know, and the sentiment and you can just kind of ignore the noise and just enjoy the ride. And yes, it's, it's, you know, you're always setting the bar at what the previous all-time high is. You know, I think every bitcoiner is, is mildly guilty of seeing one price and then being like, ah, we're not there currently. We're not currently at the all-time high.

But it is astounding. to see the change. I think back then, you know, say six, seven years ago, every news piece was overhyped more or less. And now the amount of stuff that's going on and the regular daily, oh, this is happening. Oh, this fund is looking at it. Oh, this person. Oh, this is being integrated here. This new technology has come out. This thing enables greater privacy and instant transactions and lightning is picking up and all of these different things, I think it's underhyped. I think people are under appreciating how insane everything is. Again, if you went back to 2015 and you were like, hey, JP Morgan has a price target of like 150 grand or whatever, or a country

has a legal tender law for Bitcoin or really anything, people would have. their minds would have been blown. And it's not to try and dominate, but just another thing to throw in there is like, another interesting measure is who the biggest critics are. You know, when the biggest critics start swinging, you know,

you know we're winning. So there's a great, there's a great tweet by Jessica Hoddle this week or yesterday or something. She said, it's about Hillary Clinton. She said, she can't work her emails, but now she thinks she knows everything about crypto or Bitcoin.

And you know what? Like Hillary Clinton has been throwing swings at Bitcoin for like a week now, that just says you're winning. You know, when like people at that level are starting to look at it. And now we've got like battle lines are being drawn across Congress with, you know, different senators supporting or against it. Like, I'm fucking believable. Yeah.

I was thinking about this today. Like, I was like, I thought on the one hand, it's bullish that you have somebody like Hillary Clinton funding Bitcoin. and acknowledging how potentially important it is and destabilizing nations and like threatening the US dollar as a reserve currency. I'm sure Michael Saylor was very happy to hear that. But on the other side, like, I kind of liked it when we weren't taken as seriously because it allows us to grow, you know, in the shadows.

Everyone thinks it's a bit of a joke. It's a Ponzi. There's no value here. Like, whereas now, if it's taken seriously, does that bring a high. chance of like, you know, regulatory attacks or some form of banning or 6602 confiscation. I don't know. I'm just thinking like does that sort of attention, is that going to bring hurdles to Bitcoin? I mean, yes, I think, you know, if that, if it continues down that path and you get more voices like her constantly raising that alarm, it's going to bring down.

pressure from governments to, to quote unquote, deal with us. But I think that will, you know, people will, the next thing that people are going to be pricing Bitcoin for is that that will work. And I don't think it will. I think it can be a huge pain in the ass for a while, but I don't think it works. I think Guy Swan usually regularly says Bitcoin just needs to survive. It just needs to live. It needs to not die and it wins.

And I don't think it does. I don't think it does. It never fully dies. And so it's always just going to be kind of there running for those who choose to use it. And yeah, Avery Hoddle just brought up in the chat. She's planting the seed for the argument. that Bitcoin is going to destabilize the dollar, which is bullshit because the dollar is becoming unstable all on its own. Yeah, this is this is the stupidest argument and it's it's a bit like

Who's that stupid senator that's been talking about the price fixing of chicken? Elizabeth Warren? Elizabeth Warren. You know, it's you can't just, even if they do blame Bitcoin for this, it's not going to change anything. they know either Elizabeth Warren is is just outright stupid which I'd love to believe she was just completely stupid but I think it's just a completely disingenuous comment um but to try and blame bitcoin for the dollar's downfall is is fine let them do it because it's not going to change anything like there's enough to believe her yeah that's true exactly that's exactly what I was going to say

change anything, all it'll do is keep them out for longer. And unfortunately, Bitcoin is a kind of survival of the fittest or survival of the don't buy the mainstream narrative. It's just delaying the, at best it's delaying the inevitable. I would say if the like, for example, if the dollar did collapse or there was like hyperinflation, there's going to be a lot of people, the majority of people that don't have any financial assets, including Bitcoin who are going to be extremely badly hurt. And if there is a mainstream media narrative campaigns blaming Bitcoin, you could see like just sentiment turned very, very, very, very anti-Bitcoin.

And you don't know what happens in that. I don't think Bitcoin dies necessarily for sure, but as Ben said before, like, it can become very, very, very inconvenient slash like, you know, it could be a big bump in the road, which we don't want to see. We've had about a decade now of, like, clear and patently obvious that we're being pitched against each other. Like, whether it's the mainstream media or politicians or social media algorithms, it's all been gained. The game theory has been created to make everything a binary argument. Like, you have to pick a side on every single thing now, and we're being pitched against each other.

And so if there is a collapse and it threatened. the political class. There will be those who will defend Bitcoin and those will be against it. And the political lines will be drawn and we will be pitched against each other. The Bitcoiners versus the no-coiners. They're stealing your money. That will happen. We know that will happen because they've done it on every single issue.

Yeah. Yeah. I tweeted about this at the weekend, but I've started reread it a couple of years ago, but I've started rereading the book When Money Dies. and if any of you haven't read it, then you absolutely should. If anyone that's listening hasn't read it, you absolutely should because it reads like a kind of almost instruction manual

or kind of like just it's explaining what's going to happen. And the point that I got up to last weekend was felt, I don't think we're quite there yet, but they got to a stage in Germany where there was, was no food in the cities, but there was loads out in the country because, and the reason was that the farmers out in the countryside didn't want to accept this shitty paper money for their cows and chickens and what have you. And then the people from the city went to the countryside and started basically murdering the cows and stealing the meat and stealing the goods. And

it got really nasty. Like, seriously. seriously nasty. And unfortunately, it could, it could kind of get, I kind of hope that we can transition from where we are to where we're going, which is inevitable. Like, like, it is, we absolutely 100% Bitcoin will become the only money eventually. But how it transitions, even I don't like thinking about it sometimes, because it could be nasty. So my question, my question would be, okay, and in a situation where, you know, the dollar gets bad enough that it's a clear, this is not working out. And then the blame is on Bitcoin, but the purchasing power Bitcoin continues to appreciate

the people that are sat there that are saying my, my wealth is evaporating or I just have none, they've effectively got a choice where either they listen, to the talking heads. They're just saying the Bitcoiners are stealing your money and we need you to have faith in the dollar and keep using it. Because they're going to want people to continue to use the fiat currency. So they'll have the choice of listening and holding on to that and trusting that they're not going to get burned by doing so

or not using the dollar anymore and starting to use Bitcoin. And what do you guys think will be the natural response of most people? Do you think that they'll listen and hold on to the currency that keeps on being devalued? Or do you think that they'll start to demand even under the table if like let's say it's you're not allowed to transact in it? Do you think by default under the table they'll be saying, no, I want to get paid in Bitcoin for this. I want to get paid in Bitcoin for that. even if they still buy into a little bit of the narrative of this is stealing your money. I mean, if people truly honestly feel that they can have a store value that honors their time and energy,

like that is like, you know, they will gravitate towards that. That is such a strong magnet towards, you know, people want to survive. and people want to survive more than the masks they put on more often. And so whether they're outwardly expressing, you know, support for the systems of the state and whatnot, inwardly, you know, I believe this is happening right now where, you know, I mean, does Peter Schiff own any Bitcoin? I fucking bet he does. You know, come on. I don't know. I think people's capacity for duplicity, especially from a Fiat world system, has been maximized,

and that that duplicity carries over into a Bitcoin system, and that they will, if it's in their best interest to lie about their fandom of Bitcoin, then they will. But nonetheless, you just have to be, like, unless you're completely oblivious to yourself, you're going to be attracted towards Bitcoin. Yeah. Also, great fucking quote. People want to survive more than the masks that they put on. That's great.

I like how optimistic Galactic model is. I think I'm a bit more of a pessimist than he. I've just seen so much self-sabotaging behavior from people that, you know, even if it's the clearly the wise choice to operate in Bitcoin, I think often people just like will screw themselves over because of some ideology they hold or some view of the world that they hold, like, you've got, like, communists holding Twitter spaces saying that, like, we should go back to barter economies and stuff.

Like, so, you know, just in general, like, sociopolitical movement that I won't name here, but, like, you know, what Pete was saying before is, like, it's black and white. You take, you pick a side and that's your side, and then you fight against each other. And I don't see, like, that really changing at all. So, yeah.

I guess Gandalf, that's like the, the conviction that, I mean, I've developed in Bitcoin where like people right now are just scrambling to and fro. They're looking for some sort of grounding rod to anchor them to reality. We live in the post-truth world. And we live in a world that, you know, nuclear war is like pasted across the media every other day. Financial collapses pasted across every other day. Now we've got a pandemic every other day. Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. People are craving something that just gives them, you know, like I said, that anchor to reality. something that they can be like, cool. Well, at the end of the day, I'm human on Earth and I've

got something, a vehicle to move me forward into the future that I can, like, believe in. And when I hear of people like, like people who are talking about barter systems, they're looking for alternatives. That gives me optimism, that people are looking for alternatives to a Fiat system. Now, ultimately, I believe in the signal that Bitcoin is that will, you know, penetrate through all the noise as people are searching and scrambling. I hope so. There's something we need to consider with this, though, well, a couple of points. Firstly, I don't think it's got bad enough yet.

I mean, 6.2% inflation is annoying, but that's not bad enough. I don't think people, and you've got to think about how people can actually afford Bitcoin, but I don't think it's got painful enough. Like, if you go to countries that have got real massive inflationary issues, like Lebanon is a great example. Turkey right now where people are suddenly seeing it's not just a case of oh everything's got a bit more expensive it's like I can't fucking afford to feed my family anymore when people get to that point they have to look for an alternative currency that's why when you go into some of these countries

they have black markets for say the dollar if you go into i went to venezuela like there are five currencies that people use there because they have to find an alternative and it becomes something people like everyone is talking about and then the not like the idea spreads is like okay the Oliver is so bad, you really want to hold dollars. You need to get dollars, right? So I don't think it's got bad enough for other people. But another really important point to think about is like, yeah, a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck. It might not be viable in that paycheck for them to go, okay, well, I'm going to get Bitcoin

because that's more, you know, because that's, that can't be debase. The problem with that is, is that save you put your paycheck into Bitcoin at the start of the month, you might by the end of the month have even less money because you, you know, you, you might have gone through a period where Bitcoin has dropped. So the volatility, like, you know, the, the, the, Bitcoin is only useful as an inflationary hedge over a long enough, like a longer time frame. It's a crap short-term inflation hedge because it's more of a gamble. Like, is this the week where it goes up $5,000 or down $5,000? Does it go up 10% or down 10%?

And if it goes down 10%, you've tried to avoid inflation and you've, you're spending power at the end of the month's even lower. So, like, we have to take some consideration for that. I think there's some weird statistic. Like I don't know whatever the number is, but like I'll pick one out of the air. 35% of people don't have enough money in the bank to survive a month or something, whatever it is, like a disastrous month. Yeah, there's a lot of people live in paycheck to paycheck. Bitcoin as an inflationary hedge is really for the, I think, is primarily for people who've got good wealth. Yeah, for other, you know, and people all through it.

I go, well, what about people in Salvador? Yeah. look, they can put a few dollars by, but genuinely protecting your wealth month a month, you've got to have the wealth to do it to begin with, and that's something I think we sometimes forget. Do you think, I mean,

there's part of that, obviously, that, yeah, if you're save earning locally and you get X amount, and that's it. Then, yeah, absolutely. El Salvador,

the remittance thing throws a new angle on that in that a lot of the remittances, you know, now they're they're getting an extra 30% or whatever that they weren't getting before. So potentially, you know, if they were, if somebody previously was getting by on the remittance that was coming through, they could feasibly have a little bit extra to put to the side, which is nice. but yeah like there's there's a real issue of of you know if you have disposable income then you can you can save if you don't then you don't and if shit is getting more and more expensive and you you already your paycheck wasn't covering your your basics then it's for

sure not going to cover your basics and yeah the added volatility of of bitcoin as a day to day is probably not a massive help. I'm wondering if over the long term, given that we're now establishing kind of worldwide payment rails with this, if that also changes the dynamics of earning potential in, well, every country in the world. And the reason I say that is not so much from a,

I mean, partly from an upside, from places where you might earn less typically, but also on the downside for people living in First World Nations, because if you can outsource anything that can be done remotely, there's a whole world worth of competition that now you can easily pay piecemeal for various tasks. And that's got to have downward pressure on the, salaries and the competitiveness of people living in, you know, the U.S., Canada, the UK, all those

places when you can just outsource that to, you know, to somebody you found on Fiverr or whatever and pay them in Bitcoin with lightning. If it's not a hurdle to get them paid, that that kind of changes things, doesn't it? Yeah, I think this is, I think that's why you're seeing like lots of nationalist movements in Western, more developed nations, one of the narratives is, like, took our jobs, like, immigrants are coming in and they're taking our jobs, and stealing our jobs, like, we're going to see this en masse with the internet. It's sort of like a sovereign individual thesis. You're going to be able to, like, work from anywhere, work anywhere. And yeah, I think it's going to be, there's going to be

a huge deflationary pressure on wages, but it seems like physical, at least like physical goods and commodities are going to be getting more expensive. Yeah, you're going to have to be pretty fucking good at what you do. Or you're going to have to have a skill that can't be outsourced digitally, right? You're going to have to have some sort of a, you've got to be in the trades or something. Hairdresses and yeah, hairdressers and funeral directors and things. You can't outsource any of that. Anything that can be done remotely and that can be scaled with technology.

Like, you know, if for education is a huge one where like, you know, one teacher who's the best at teaching whatever can use the internet to teach 20 million people, right? How many other teachers does that put out of business? Like a shit ton. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see. Maybe here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to, we're getting super dark here, guys.

I'm getting so depressed. I'm going to We need to be bullish We've got We're going to Yeah Back of Pete saying How amazing of a year it's been

That's I know how did we get No but you know what It has been for Bitcoin But it makes me think I know I was talking to Rizzo recently And he's making a massive effort To document the complete history of Bitcoin

Understand Everything that happened Every decision that was made Like in as much detail as possible Because he said There's In the next 10, 20 years, the world's going to be a very different place. And whilst there are Bitcoin winners, there are going to be some losers.

And they're probably going to want an explanation of why this happened, how this happened, you know, what the Bitcoin part was to that. And it's like sometimes, I mean, I'm a hypocrite because I, you know, Bitcoin will go up a thousand dollars and I'll celebrate it. But it does keep like, it is something that I'm thinking about a lot at the moment. It's like, what does this mean? Like what does hyper-bitcoinization really mean? What is what's going to happen like and and I can't help but think it's not going to be a very clean transition and and some people could lose very badly and I don't know if in the short term the net the net result might be mainly shit you know eventually long term you know if our thesis is correct great but there might be this really shit period in the middle but let's talk about something positive I think I think that's right but yeah the transition

That's the big question mark. I think in the end, like once it's established, it'll be a positive thing for humanity as a whole. But getting there, that's going to be the tough bit. And I agree. It's kind of like purging all the Fiat bullshit. You know,

like I get asked a lot as I'm talking to people of Bitcoin. And I have like, you know, because Bitcoin's relatively new to me. A lot of my community is very new to it. So I get to kind of interact with people who are, they've heard of it right, but they're not deep down the rabbit hole, so to speak. And one of the things is like, well, you know, how do we get more equality in the world? You know, like don't just a small percentage of people own Bitcoin versus everybody else.

And, you know, isn't that just repeating the same, you know, problem that we have now with wealth disparity? And one of my answers to that is like, well, the Fiat system created that wealth disparity in the first place. You know? Yeah. moving away from that like it's not going to be an instant you know fix like we're already seeing you know the wealth transfer happen to a great many people and and it's a grassroots way like where Nigeria and El Salvador like these these people that otherwise have no access to any wealth around the world aren't able to generate and save for themselves but that yeah that I agree with

Peter like that transition is probably not going to be pretty by our standards of like what what we would like to see in terms of unicorns and rainbows for the new world. But it's going to be beautiful in the sense that like, well, look at that other Fiat institution fall. Like, that's ugly and awful in its process, just like the destruction of a building. But now we have space for something new to grow. Yeah. It's it's kind of, you know, the Fiat system could fix itself, but they're worried about the pain of doing so, right? Like, the pain of pulling away that punch bowl and getting back to reality. And they've gotten into this mindset of we can just postpone it forever or like kick it down the road for somebody else to deal with.

And it's that aversion to tiny bits of pain that have built up so huge that a dose of reality like Bitcoin dropped on the world is going to cause a lot of pain in order to get us back to some sense. semblance of sanity in the world of where value is actually placed. And all of the fake value will just kind of disappear. It'll just evaporate. And that's going to be tough for people to stomach because a lot of people are fake wealthy. They think they're wealthy, but they're fake wealthy. And it's all going to evaporate.

But some of the less fortunate, as you're saying, some of the countries that are cluing into this because they have no better shot at changing their fortunes. there'll be some of the benefactors of this. And that's going to be really tough for some Western nations to stomach, some of the higher up nations out there. That's going to be a tough pill to swallow. So we'll see how it plays out. But regardless, I'm going to wrap this topic.

And I'm going to toss it down the line. Let's get Gandalf out the gate here. We'll shift to you. What has you feeling bullish this week, my friend? Great. Yeah. So I've just been down to El Salvador, actually, I was there for Bitcoin Week and had the massive pleasure of like hearing the announcement about Bitcoin City and the Bitcoin bonds live. And I think this kicks off an interesting round of game theory on the nation state level, both from like a financial aspect where, you know, if the Bitcoin bond goes well for El Salvador and for those that buy the bond.

you could see other nations trying the same tactic. And on the other hand, also you have a nation that that's trying to embrace the values that a lot of Bitcoiners have, both like, I guess, politically and socially. So when we were down there, El Salvador sort of candle their like vaccination and PCR test requirements, even though they apparently have a lot of COVID. So I don't know if that was related to Bitcoin Week or not, but obviously a lot of Bitcoiners lean that way and they're very happy about that. But you also saw like Bitcoin City with the tax levels.

Again, a lot of Bitcoiners appear to be libertarians. They say taxation is, I'm not saying I don't, I believe that or don't believe that. I'm just saying that that's just the general view of a lot of Bitcoiners, it seems. So you see like Bitcoin City with basically zero taxes other than the 10% VAT. And that's going to be attractive to a lot of people who are now going to think like, you know, my country is locking down again, or my country, you know, is going into even more debt to stimulate the economy because of coronavirus, and now I'm going to have to pay even higher taxes, like suddenly having an alternative, like moving to El Salvador or moving to another nation

where you get treated better is a reality. And I think it's awesome to have those options and to be able to leave where you are if you're not being treated the way you want and going somewhere else where you're, you know, you're feeling a bit more valued and welcome than, then where you're coming from. I don't think that these bonds are, are priced in on a global level of, of the value of Bitcoin because five years out,

if, if, again, if everything just kind of gets, gets kind of out the gate. And again, like, I'd rather. just own Bitcoin.

But let's say, you know, some people, they go ahead and they buy these bonds from El Salvador. And that Bitcoin, you know, half of it goes into Bitcoin mining infrastructure, so and so forth. And the other half gets, is used for a purchase of Bitcoin. And it gets locked away for five years. And after that five years, it's a six and a half percent annual coupon on the bond. And on top of that, after five years, half of the Bitcoin, appreciation gets paid out to bondholders every quarter.

And so given that in the history of Bitcoin, there's never been a four-year period that Bitcoin has been lower on one day to the next in any four-year period for its entire history. I don't think that the world is currently pricing in the implications of that later. because as it starts to come to that that five-year mark where those payouts are going to start happening to those bondholders, how many other nations are, and even just the raise, like if a billion goes into this bond, how many other countries are going to look at that and be like, holy shit, fuck the IMF. Like, is that going to be a potential for other small nations to do? The shitty thing is, is that, you know, Bitcoin is for enemies.

And I guess that's not a shitty thing about it, but it will mean that some less desirable nations will be doing some shady stuff. And people will, again, in the free market, have to decide where they're going to place their money. But you could see some of that happening where some nations maybe take advantage of this. And we'll see. but on a global scale, I think that five years out, people will look at issuing Bitcoin-backed bonds and will go,

holy shit, that is not a bad idea. I don't know. What are you guys feeling about this? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's going to take five years for the next country to think that this is a good idea because it's there is a whole I mean I can't remember off the top of my head there's like 30 trillion or some ludicrous amount of negative yielding bonds in existence

and you've got this I know what you just said like yeah it's this this bond mathematically can never outperform Bitcoin so so it's as if anything anyone's thinking, oh, yeah, I'm going to sell my Bitcoin and buy this bond, that the only possible reason for doing that, I think, is the fact that after five years you could potentially get El Salvador residency through it. So you may kind of think that that was a reasonable trade-off. But otherwise, this is not for, this is not for Bitcoin. This is for, like, hedge funds or pension funds or whatever, who, as part of their,

investment kind of rules or whatever cannot hold Bitcoin, but they can hold bonds. And even though this, yeah, it looks like a bond, it's not going to perform like a bond because it's going to have this rocket up its ass of 25% of the value of the bond following the Bitcoin price. And like you say, yeah, five years time, it's going to, what is it? 65 years. It's going to be like $500,000 or something. So, yeah, I don't think this will take the market all that long to work out. It always takes longer than we think.

Like, micro strategy, when they first bought, that took a while to really, like, you're not still not doing any other, any other companies really do what micro strategy is doing. because not many have got any cash. Like they were in a pretty unique position as a listed company that had cash and no debt. Like there really aren't that many companies like that. The main thing is that they have a, they have Michael Saylor who controls the board

and can like pull something like this through without much opposition or without needing like a quorum of a sudden number of people to agree on it. I think that's the most. But it's said, but it's been such a good play. that you would think, unless what's probably happening is like, do you have people now thinking they've missed the boat?

They're too late. They could, you know, if I could go back in time to when Bitcoin was 10K and do this, I would do it. But at 55, it's crazy. I'm buying the top. You know, I might as well go try this with some other shit coin. I, I think, I wonder if we're going to see more of it. Like, if we, if we were to, again, approach that kind of. of 100K zone where all of a sudden there's there's all this fomo and you get people going

fuck maybe sailor is right and and it is going to go up forever laura and do you do you think there's do you think there's going to be such a thing as corporate fomo into bitcoin and do you think those same corporates will will since there if they are capable of acting on fomo do you think those same people would would dump if it dipped far enough and and then do we see that also on on a global level with governments like is that is that a possibility i think the game theory outlined by samson's pretty clear that they're going to launch one bond and then they're going to watch a second and they could do up to 10 and in some ways there is something mildly Ponzi about it like not an actual Ponzi but you know

bond one takes 500 million Bitcoin off the market and if they do 10 of these bonds there's like 5 billion but if they're staggering them yeah they're Ponzi is a bit unfair but it's really going to be a wake-up call to every other everybody is involved in bond trading

it's like well what is this thing I'm pretty sure when they when they when they actually open it, they will raise the billion. I reckon I'd be surprised if it takes a week. Yeah, and the thing Yeah, I think they've already got some good interest.

Yeah, and I think one of the reasons being is, I think it won't just be non-bitcoinsers. It'll actually be, there'll be a lot of Bitcoiners wanted to do this for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's a big fuck you to the IMF and there's whales out there. It's so rich. They can just do it because

100% for fun. But secondly, they understand the game theory that if this is a success, if it sells out quickly and they go into the second bond, then that sells out quickly. That not only just takes Bitcoin off the market, which increases their Bitcoin stack, but it advertises this to countries all around the world. So, I mean, I just think this is such a smart move. It's so clear and obvious. I mean, Bitcoin has to do its thing, right? It still has to go up every four years. support the five-year lockup.

But I mean, it's going up forever, right? Well, I mean, yeah, like, if five years out from any point Bitcoin was lower, especially in dollar terms, given the amount of money printing that has just become the norm, yeah, that would be extremely worrying, right? A five-year time horizon where it doesn't go up in dollar terms when, you know, the word trillion is is in the regular vernacular in terms of new money coming being being brought into into the supply yeah yeah that would be super worrying I didn't say before I didn't believe that in the super cycle at least not now but now I kind of think that we are in a super cycle because I don't

think I I've only been around in bitcoins in 2019 but I do feel like I don't feel like I don't feel like we're going to see a massive blow off top and then an 80% down and then, you know, a two year bear market. I could see it just like, you know, I could see the volatility still being there, but us just like going, you know, down to like 45, 55 and then like new all time high and then down again and then another, you know, just like, but not like smashing all time highs all the time. Just slowly every few months, we hit another all time high, then we go down again. And just for years, because I just don't see, I just see more and more people coming onto Bitcoin, not the other way around.

There's a guy that I'm going to have on in a couple of weeks here. And he kind of has, he was looking at previous cycles. And he still thinks that it's going to be equally volatile, but the length of the bull market takes longer. and the bear markets are shorter but just more violent. And so, and the reason for that is he's kind of, he's taken the previous runs and kind of line them up. And the,

the, the, the blow off tops are kind of going again, up into the right. So they're, they're still peaking out, but they're going, they're taking longer to get there.

He, he supposes that the reason for the, not as extreme, multiple in 2017 is because in 2013 they were still kind of in money printer mode, right? They were still easing. Whereas

in 20, end of 2017, it was more of kind of a tightening environment. Whereas this time, he says again, we're in massive easing. And he thinks that, and given the trajectory that he's kind of looked at, he said that if his thesis works out to be correct, then we wouldn't see a blow off top until somewhere between March and April. And it, depending on when it hit, it would be either

like a ridiculous price point or a really ridiculous price point. Like he's looking at like 300 to 600K, but not until spring. And so I'm curious to see if that like if we were to blow off in the spring, then I would definitely think that his his trajectory is pretty decent. And I think I almost kind of agree with that idea because of the amount of adoption of Bitcoin, like, yeah, a lot of people have held a little bit of Bitcoin, but not meaningful amounts. And you've got entirely different types of people and entities diving into Bitcoin now with a lot more money behind them. But as we've seen, companies can be stupid too. You saw somebody sell on the double spend fud back earlier this year. They bought, they made, they put in like tens of millions of

dollars. They made like 100 grand or 200 grand or something. And then they sold the dip and bragged about the hundred grand they made. Like it was, it was ridiculous. And they sold it based on the fud, which was if you took more than two seconds to look at it, you would have been like, oh, This isn't a double spend. This is literally just a regular thing that happens in Bitcoin all the time. And it was just that two blocks from mine simultaneously. And you just kind of had to wait to see what ends up being the orphaned block. And so I don't think we're beyond stupidity and fomo and, you know, dumping on the dip, you know, with some of these corporations.

And I don't think that we're beyond that kind of stupidity when it comes to countries. And so if that is true, then we could see the same kind of volatility and craziness. But I do agree with his thesis that the bull markets are just taking longer to get there. And the bear markets are just shorter and more violent. I guess we'll see. But anyways, let's wrap this in one. And we'll go to the final reason here. And so Gandalf, thank you for that topic, by the way.

Galactic, you, I added you to this show because you had a hell of a topic to bestow upon us today. So I'll just defer to you. I'll let you do your thing. What has you bullish this week? What is what's on your mind? Okay. I mean, so much has me bullish, of course. Not the least of which was I bought some salmon off a brother of mine who's a indigenous man here.

and he sells his salmon that he catches. And I was like, hey, do you want to take some Bitcoin? And he was just like, oh, yeah, instantly. It was his first Bitcoin he's ever owned. And then I gave him the whole download. And he was like, wait, are you serious? Like what you're telling me right now? Like, dude, this is the way.

And he was like, oh, okay, cool. I'm getting my whole family on board. And I'm like, awesome. But in all sincerity, like, so I approach Bitcoin from like the opposite end of the spectrum as I'm realizing. Like I had been looking for Bitcoin before I knew what it was. I had been searching for the tool that was going to take humanity from this like service to self mindset

into like a more service to community, service to others and allow us to basically network effect into another octave of, you know, evolution of humanity into a more galactic species. And so what I mean by that is like, you know, when I finally, through the help of the internet and whatnot in this global communication we've got going on, finally got tuned into Bitcoin and like got downloaded really with what it was in terms of this cascading network effect of wealth, you know, this win-win game theory situation. I was like, oh, cool. This is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been looking for because in the real, realm of study that I do as a yogi and a mystic, like we are, and this is going to get a bit woo real quick, but we are in the time of prophecy. If you pay attention to the Hopi Indians, if you pay attention to the Tibetans, if you pay attention to the Lakota elders, if you pay attention to any of the indigenous people all around the world, they talk about a time that's happening right now where humanity is going to, the Mayan calendar, for instance, the 2012 of the end of the world. We've all heard of that.

And it wasn't the end of the world. It was the beginning of a new one, really. We are in a time of collective enlightenment. And the internet is a manifestation of that. It's like the stepping stone to this process. And Bitcoin, I see, is the next tool that takes us there. And it's the best tool we have to upend the current paradigm, which has been suppressing humanity,

keeping us in a conflict-ridden state of being with warfare, scarcity of resources, all these ideas, like energy, like we don't have enough energy. And we've seen this play out with the FUD too. There's so many people that are like, oh, we can't use energy to mine Bitcoin. It's like, no, energy is not the problem. Like we're going to learn how to harvest and utilize energy.

And Bitcoin is going to allow us to, amplify that and exponentially becomes better at gathering energy because of its self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts to do so that is going to take us to what Kardashev talks about as the type one civilization we can then utilize to the fullest extent of that energy to realize our space in the galactic sphere and as Alan wants said we're only out we're as far out in outer space as we're ever going to get. But certainly there's a lot to explore out there. And as humans, we are creators, we are explorers, we are adventurers. It is like our birthright to move beyond these stories that have been plugging us. And Klaus Schwab, like recently got up

and he says, you know, part of this great reset, this whole pandemic debacle that, you know, is being utilized in a great many ways to consolidate wealth and consolidate power. He talks about like the great narrative and how it's up to these the Davos crowd and the W.EF to develop a new narrative. And for me, Bitcoin is like, oh, Bitcoin's here. This is the narrative that will actually capture people's imaginations to dream of a more beautiful future that our hearts know is possible. It activates that inside of us. And you know, I know Bitcoin Gandalf, I'd kind of been pegged as the optimist a little bit. The only pessimistic side I have in that is that it's like, and I agree with Guy Swan,

Bitcoin wins. Like in my mind, it's already won. And we're literally just like kind of watching time play out because time is slower than truth. And ultimately, the thing that really needs to shift is us. Bitcoin is a tool. It's neutral. meaning that it's up to us to use it. Like, you know, our ability to split the atom was neutral.

But what did we do? We weaponized it. The internet was neutral. But what did we do? We weaponized it. You know, and Bitcoin ultimately is neutral. And I see all the other cryptocurrencies and the shitcoins. They are the weaponized version of, you know,

blockchain technology and Bitcoin ultimately. And we're going to see narratives around Bitcoin be weaponized. We're going to see people try and weaponize. Bitcoin for their own scams and whatnot. But ultimately it's like the best thing about Bitcoin is that it is so anti-fragile and

so unmanipulated to the base human instincts that have been driving us for the past few thousand years under shitty money and under rulership and monarchy and all these things that we are

you know this is the next step. I see it clear as day. I've meditated on this for thousands of hours. It's ridiculous. And I am totally happy to be the weirdo in that regard, but I will be, you know, banging that drum forever. I like how you're saying, I'm happy to be the weirdo as Gandalf down in the corner chills out. I absolutely love that. I love listening to that. No, that was great. And so my question to you, are you familiar with the idea of the great? filter? Probably, but refresh me.

So the great filter is the idea that, okay, well, in- Yes, I am. Yeah, okay, so anybody listening that's unfamiliar, it's this idea of, okay, while the galaxy has been around for billions of years, we've been, you know, we actively can look into the skies and the reasoning is that given the amount of the number of billions of years that the plants and the solar system and other solar systems. have been around, we feasibly should have seen some type of life that has come to us or encountered or we should have observed some type of life out there at some point by now.

And so the possibility as to why we haven't seen that yet could be that there's some sort of great filter that prevents societies from reaching a point in which they get to the point where they can actually travel far enough to visit other galaxies and visit other civilizations. And I was talking to, of course, Max Kaiser about this at one point on the show. And I asked him if he thought that maybe Bitcoin as a technology could be that great filter technology that bumps us to that next level where we can function. efficiently enough as a society and allocate capital and human resources and time constructively enough to push us into that realm where we become that society that makes it past the great

filter. And so anyways, that was given your topic, that was a thought on the tip of my tongue there. I don't know if you ascribe to that idea. Well, no, totally. And I don't know if anyone has the time, it's a three hour long podcast that Daniel Schmockenberger and, God, what's his name, Titus? Something I believe from, he wrote like the Google Ethics paper and then Google fired him. And then he went off and was like, hey, he and then created the video, the social dilemma.

They're being interviewed on Joe Rogan. It debuted like last week or something. And, you know, it's kind of like, They're all sitting there, like, depressed as they hash out the truth that, like, hey, you know, pretty soon with CRISPR, with autonomous drones and with AI computing, like, anyone from their basement can, like, send a swarm of bio weapons out into a city, you know, at the touch of a button for, like, super cheap. And that's just getting easier and easier to do. So it's like, the filter is here in the fact that, like, if we don't develop, if we don't have some sort of like both innate incentive and external. incentive pushing us towards a more cooperative situation, you know, if we're still in this like win-lose game theory of like, I have to survive at someone else's expense, someone's going to push

the red button because it's getting, because more and more people are going to have it. And more and more people are going to be playing those type of games. And that like that's going to be a filter ultimately because it's like we'll just end up, you know, fucking everything up. And like I said, Bitcoin is kind of like the sort of Democles or not Democles, the sort of Democles over this bullshit. It's like over Fiat, it's over this old system and it's like coming down.

And it's a sort of truth at the same time. What about the rest of the panel? Do you guys think that Bitcoin is enough of a tool to at least correct our trajectory enough

to have a more positive future? Even even like yes there's the the galactic angle of it is it but in general does it does it correct our trajectory enough to make us better as a species and and and put us towards a more productive ends everybody's dumbfounded I'd like to think so and I think that's what a lot of us are hoping for right that we're not here just so we can or certainly I'm not like so that we can just kind of have nice houses and cars and things you know this is there there are there are bigger things that you can do once you fix the money um so yeah

i i certainly hope so whether whether like finding life on other planets is part of that i'm i'm not sure we we had an interesting spaces chat with this guy bruce fenton i'm not sure if you've heard of him Galactic. He, uh, he's done a lot of work with, uh, studying, um, how, how, kind of, um, aliens may well have interfered with human DNA kind of 70,000 years ago, that sort of thing. So yeah, he's, uh, he's an interesting guy, but I haven't really given it much before this week, but it's, we've come up with it twice now. How about you, you, Gandalf? Are you, you, you're more of a fantasy man than, uh, this, uh, uh, Science fiction man or?

Like that that that galactic rat was like way over my head in terms of the the concepts. But I do completely agree. I do think that obviously having hard money and having and perhaps moving to a Bitcoin standard is going to help in a human race. I think but it's a matter of it's a matter of fixing the incentives. So in that respect, I'm not sure if I grasped some of the concepts Galactic was talking about, but that's maybe because I'm a bit thick. I'm also a bit out there.

It's okay. Definitely, definitely leads us to a better place as a species, certainly much better than where we're going to end up if we take the Fiat experiment all the way to the end with and if we had no alternative to it, which thankfully we do. Pete, I've got a question for you then. I was going to add a point on that just because I think it's definitely one tool that will help. I think we've got a lot of other issues to figure out. And I think Bitcoin might present some new issues. Maybe this is just like we're going through part of the history of life. Like people will look back on maybe these years or this decade or 20.

20, 30 year period and see a whole massive transition recording the history books where we went from a certain place to a completely different place. But I think there's a lot of other stuff to figure out that Bitcoin can't figure out. Governance, I think, is a huge, huge issue because politics in general isn't really working for the people anymore. We no longer have politicians who serve the electorate. I don't think there's many people these days who truly trust a politician. They make us promises and then they lie to us. repeatedly. There are Bitcoiners who believe we can have a society without any form of government

and we've all become sovereign individuals and I'm not sure how that works. So I think there's like a whole bunch of other stuff to figure out. And then I'm not sure if Galacti was referring to the Rogan interview with the two guys this week because it was fascinating. Like we're on the dawn of like a number of different technologies that can both massively improve the lives of everyone in the world and also destroy ourselves. whether that's AI or CRISPR or, you know, advancements in nuclear technology.

So I think there's a lot of stuff to be figured out. I definitely think Bitcoin can help, but I don't think it's the solution to everything. I mean, if I could distill it down to like my, my bullishness down to a few things more. One is that, like, Bitcoin is a tool.

Like, I see a lot of hype in the Bitcoin community that wants to make it like the savior. Like, Bitcoin fixes this. And it's like, no, we fix this with Bitcoin in our arsenal. You know, ultimately, like, we, again, this is like, we are learning how to be ultimately responsible for ourselves. And we got to stop, like, with the savior complex stuff, like outsourcing our capability

and power to these systems and to people and politicians. Like, we self-source that from within. And even Bitcoin is not something to be bestowed with, like, oh, oh, it is the thing that takes us there. It's like, no, it's part of the equation. It's a really good part of the equation, though. It aligns incentives such that I think it has people spend more time on technologies that are more beneficial to people as a whole, right?

Because think of the misallocation of capital and resources as human time over, you know, it's basically the website, what the fuck happened in 1971, right? At that point, all of a sudden, all of these different metrics that kind of measure

the quality of human life just went off the rails because incentives have been so misaligned of where people place their capital and their thought and their energy. They no longer plan long term. They no longer purchase things that are meant to be held long term.

They no longer fix things. They buy things and throw them out. There's been, whole culture of consumerism that has been propped up by this monetary system that disincentivizes long-term thinking. And because of that, you have entire companies based around building trinkety bullshit that people throw out and people buy it. People, they'll go and they'll work and they'll spend their time and they'll earn their

dollars and they'll take those dollars there and they'll allocate them to products that are useless and and food that makes them sick and and health products that don't actually improve their health. And so a lot of things, while not direct, are, are in a way influenced by the money and people's habits because of the money have changed the trajectory of kind of the human condition, in my opinion. And I think that while many people look at this and say, well, it's stupid to say that Bitcoin fixes this. No, you're right. It doesn't directly fix it. But it changes a lot of underlying human behaviors. And a lot of people say, well, what would we have been capable of if we had been on a sound money standard this entire time?

If we had this incorruptible kind of measurement of value, where would human time and resources have been allocated? How much more advanced? could technology have become? Would we have stayed exploring space? To keep up with the kind of galactic look at it. Would we have been a more curious species if we would have been less concerned about getting our next paycheck just to make ends meet

if we had actually funneled our time and resources into making ends meet being an easy thing for the average person, because they're able to just, you know, do what they're good at and build and earn an income and just save and not have to become professional investors. Would a lot of these bullshit companies that that make crap that's no good for us have kind of fallen to the wayside and thus human time and energy been allocated to more important endeavors and more curious kind of scientific endeavors? would we be an entirely different people now? I think maybe not to an extreme, but I think that we'd be in a much better place than we are right now. Could we be less advanced?

Do you think? What I'm saying, could we have been less, be less technologically advanced, but have a lower wealth gap in that, is there an argument that Fiat money has somehow funneled money towards bigger companies who've been able to reinvest in innovation. Like would Tesla be where it is without its subsidies?

Would it have been able to do what it did without subsidies? Possibly not because at a time, those subsidies may have been the difference between people's being able to afford a Tesla or not. The business model might not have worked. So is there like an argument that, or like health companies maybe, you know, without a fiat system,

maybe wouldn't have had as much money to invest in, you know, new drugs and things. But but, but the cost of that or the, the tradeoff for that is that we have a wider wealth gap. We have, you know, the richer or richer. So I don't know. I just put it out there. Like, do we think, oh, we sell money, everything in the world would have been better? We'd have been both technologically advanced, maybe more so.

And there wouldn't be as big a wealth gap. I'm just not 100% convinced on that. More money just means more purchasing power, which presumably you would have as well under a hard money standard, right? If you're framing it from that perspective where like could they afford to carry out this research or invest in stuff that's led to innovation, you could say that under a hard money standard, their money is going to buy them more every year. and so they would have still been able to to do that. Yeah. And also to your point, like creation, like having a Fiat money standard, the creation of new money, it doesn't create more value.

It reallocates it, right? Like there's a set amount of goods and services in human time that's up for bid, right? And so creating more money just simply. rather than relying on the cumulative opinions of every individual on the planet to allocate their wealth to certain endeavors, you're siphoning off that global opinion, that global vote of what's the most important thing to strive towards, and you're reallocating it to where a few people see fit. and what's the more

what's the more efficient way to do it to get to where we want to be? I don't know like what what would have come in Tesla's place if that capital from those subsidies wouldn't

have been reallocated and I don't know like what's it's not just that then it's also the it's the like create money creation under a sound money standard you can't just create new monies but fractional reserve banking allows new money to be created that didn't exist before and that can then be

allocated to more purchase. So I just said, I don't know. There'd be other people to answer, but I'm not entirely convinced that we haven't advanced more or built more or developed more because we've had the ability to create money out thin air. Well, what if questions are tough to answer? If I could, I would go look maybe at like the vision of Buckminster. who basically predicted Bitcoin like 70 years ago at least or something like that.

Go read some of his books and read his vision for the world and what he wanted to create because he talks, he was asked by like an 11 year old. Like what would you do to bring peace to the world? And he was like, I would create a money that was based on like kilowatt hours, essentially like energy based money. And then someone who had the foresight to articulate that, we might look to like that person's like what that person was envisioning for the future to get an idea of like what that would eventually create. And I'm not sure it's necessarily like the argument of like is it are we technologically advanced or do we have a wealth gap.

But like more about like are we experiencing more peace and less warfare because then what does that do? like it's weird because like technological advancement has been largely a warfare based incentive, right? Like that's where we get a lot of our technology. So what is going to incentivize us and what kind of technologies are we going to create when war is disincentivized and more cooperation is incentivized? So really interesting point. I think, I think, yeah, I think what you're saying.

there and what Pete was saying is that if you think one of the things that's massively changed since the 70s is microchip technology and just what computers can do and could that or would that have

happened to the extent that it has now that we can all be sitting here and have thousands of people around the world watching it on devices and things would that have actually happened under sound money or would it have been Would the sound money have been invested in more kind of tangible thing? Like architecture and art and cities and things like that.

Yeah, I don't have the answer to that one, but I think it's an interesting thought. Maybe we do stop doing that. Yeah. Would Tottenham still be shit under a sound money standard? You're so funny, Pete. Well, we probably would because we're one of the only profitable football clubs in the Premier League, if not the only profitable football club in the Premier League. Because that's what football fans care about.

We would be able to carry on, and we're not trading off of Saudi oil money or whatever. Do they sing that in the terraces? we're the most profitable club. No, we all hate it, but it's like, here's what it is. Could you guys, under a hard money standard, could you see, like, one of the ways I could see perhaps less innovation is, like, in a Fiat world, like, you know, a new, more improved version of a product comes out every year,

and everyone goes out and buys it. And so the companies are incentivized to make that new product because there's demand for it, whereas it seems like in a hard money standard, you wouldn't be spending your money on a new iPhone every year. You'd presumably like probably upgrade less. Would that lead to less innovation because there's less iteration of producing goods and I would take the opposite view of that. My view is that with a Fiat money standard, you have planned obsolescence, right?

they purposely stagger those releases. I think that in a hard money standard, you're forced to actually have more meaningful upgrades to your devices to encourage people to go and upgrade, right? We've gotten to a point now where, like, unless there's a massive leap forward, you know, I'm way less inclined to go out and get a new phone now than previously,

especially given that I now have a mechanism to save my money that that actually keeps and increases my purchasing power. Now that said, you still like under a Fiat money standard, people still do go and upgrade their phones and get new TVs and stuff, knowing full well that there will be cheaper, better options of the next year. But I think under a sound money standard,

you're just that much more likely to save rather than get the new thing unless it's meaningfully better. A lot of my purchases have changed in that I get the thing, I'll likely get the more expensive thing that will last longer is, tends to be what I gravitate towards. Rather than get the crap that I know is crap and it's probably going to break, I'm going to need to replace it. I go for like the nice piece of furniture that'll just keep forever. So I think I think it changes the dynamic and it forces better quality items into the marketplace. That's that's kind of my take there. That makes sense. And I guess you'd be as a company incentivized to put out the best possible product as opposed to like withholding so that next year you can do the slight upgrade because no, but like you said in a hard money.

standard. Nobody's going to upgrade for something slightly better. They're really going to hold off for a massive improvement. Also, if you're a profitable company, if you get paid first and you're holding Bitcoin, you get to see that. You get to actually see that appreciation of purchasing power if you actually put it away too, right? So you're more incentivized to have the better product before the other people have it, get it out to market, get people to buy it first so that you can save your Bitcoin first so that it appreciates more in purchasing power so that you can put more into R&D and get a better product again before the competition. Yeah.

My mind's still not trained in thinking in a like what the world would be like in a hard mind. It's like it's just flips everything on its head, doesn't it? Well, if you're a Bitcoin company and you need to sell the Bitcoin holders, you're not going to start making fidget spinners. You know, like you're not going to do that. Like, that's not going to be something that you can, like, sell your Bitcoin, let it part from you because that's not going to come back to you easily for just crap. Because it needs to be good because I need to convince you that you're going to need this thing.

And you're going to be very discerning because you have some money. Peter, we've got some advice for you on your football club here from Canadian Bitcoiners. Peter, take note what they're saying. Invest in your team. Don't field subpar players. I'm not sure who that's the dinket. I mean, come on. Do you want Delhi Ali for?

Who's on the agenda, Pete? What's the club's budget for buying players? Deli Allie and Dumbullet. I'm going to blow people away with the plans when they see it. I think it's going to cause a real stir in the football. Is it going to be you and you and Rexham are going to be the new Premier League start? Well, they put $2 million in? Well, that's not going to touch the sides.

Come on. You could get messy. It's about that age where he's like, he just wants to go and make a few Bitcoin. I have a very true plan. And I can't wait to get out there, let people see it. Yeah. I'm going to round this one out, guys. I think before we get too deep into that.

You don't want to stay up all night and talking about football. Yeah, you know, it's not on my list of things to do. We know the Britain. Yeah, yeah. But gentlemen, I will say, first of all, I love this last topic. I'll round it out here with a round of just final thoughts from everybody really quick and any last words that you'd like to say. and also let people know where they can find you.

Of course, everybody watching all of these guys, their Twitter handles are on the show notes, so you can check them out. But toss it to Glenn first, dude. Once again, let people know where they can find you, and just any final thought you may have. Feel free to throw it out there. Yeah, Glenn Hoddle on Twitter, I really don't know.

1am, I'm very infrequently up at this time. So, yeah, I'm not sure I have any wise words, but yeah, it's been great fun. Hopefully we didn't get too depressing. I know some of the some of the other Bitcoin is thinking we were getting pretty down on things

in the piece about like the disaster that awaits us in this transition to hyperbitonization but no it's all good and thank God we've actually got Bitcoin otherwise who the fuck knows what we'd be doing. Indeed. I echo that.

Galactic you're up. Any final thoughts and let people know where they can find you? Yeah. Just I'm I echo what Glenn said. Like before Bitcoin, I kind of had like a pretty malignant view of the world. And now it's my, like, I see beauty every way. And it's just my desire to create that.

And I hope that Bitcoin inspires that within everybody. Because it certainly is possible. And you can, yeah, find me on Twitter at Galacta Coddle. And I'm actually just like launching this week a substack called Ancient Future Now. So check it out there. You have to take a look at that. Awesome. Gandalf, you're up.

Final thoughts. Where can people find you? Yeah, I'm at BTC Gandalf on Twitter. And yeah, thank you very much for having us, Ben. And Glenn, Galactic, Peter, it's been a pleasure sharing the stage with you guys. And I'll just leave saying by that on my trip to El Salvador, I had the pleasure of meeting a lot of Bitcoiners in real life. And if I had to pick one thing, actually, that makes me the most bullish,

is that just bitcoins are fucking awesome. so I'll leave it up that. That's great. And Pete, how about you? Where can people find you? And final thoughts? Yeah, sorry for being a miserable show. I think it's because I went to bed and I took drugs.

I just feel fucked. Like, Ben, just want to say thank you for everything you do. It was cool to hang out with you in Miami. Your work's incredible. You've done so much good educational content for people. Gandalf, great to meet you in bed for recently. Glenn, we should have a beer sometime. Galactic, nice to meet you.

You're a smart dude, man. hopefully I hear a lot more from you soon. I have nothing intelligent to say I'm so tired. I've got to get up in six hours and go and watch my daughter play hockey. So just keep stacking, keep being kind to people. And yeah, whatever. See you later. That's great.

Thank you guys so much. I appreciate you all. And thanks for spending the time. Cheers, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Cheers. Awesome.

And everybody's still watching. Thank you guys. for joining us on this fine Friday. It was a good rib. It was fun. Had a lot of fun there. Late for the Brits, they stayed up. They weathered it. And everybody's stateside, everybody in Canada.

Also, happy belated Thanksgiving to those of you in the States. And to my Canadians, happy nothing day, nothing, literally nothing happened yesterday. So whatever. Or this was last month. But anyways, guys, thank you so much for being here. As always, please do like, subscribe, share. those things super, super important. If you want to help the show in another way, you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors

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