BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? James Lavish, Daz Bea, Seb Bunney ep267

Episode Date: June 25, 2022

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/jameslavish https://twitter.com/dazbea1 https://twitter.com/sebbunney https://twitter.com/LookingGlassEdu 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shakepay is the easiest way to buy Bitcoin in Canada Sign up now and get $30 free after your first $100 purchase! https://shakepay.me/r/BTCSESSIONS LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $10 free with a savings balance of $75 or more for 15 consecutive days! https://start.ledn.io/btcsessions Keystone Wallet: secure your Bitcoin! http://bit.ly/KeyStoneSessions BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards, earn sats back while you shop. https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 BITCOIN tips: https://strike.me/btcsessions

Welcome to the show, everybody. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? We've got an awesome panel today and we'll bring them in and have some intros. One returning guests and a couple brand newbies, both working on an excellent project. And we'll get into that momentarily. I hope you're all having a good week. I hope you're all excited. I hope you all are either enjoying, engaging in the drama that is Twitter right now or maybe just silently

keeping to yourself and avoiding the whole mess. But welcome. This is my favorite part of the week. I've got my beverage ready. A couple of the gentlemen are in the morning. So I'm not going to coax them into whiskey at this early hour. But I'm glad to have you all here. As always, this is live.

Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Fuck it. Do it live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The fucking thing sucks. Yeah. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share. If you're listening on Fountain or Streaming Sats, smash that boosterground button. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now.

We're sitting at 21,3,370. 70 some odd dollars per coin. Single U.S. dollar will grab you 4,679 sats. 90.84% of all Bitcoin have in mind. And in terms of fees, 18 sats per byte for the next block, but it seems to be erratic right now.

So if you're waiting anything beyond 30 minutes, one or two sats for bio, probably do you just fine. Shout to two sponsors of the show, shakebay.com. If you're in Canada, easy way to stack sats. E transfers in and out in a deposit or withdrawal fees. They cover the minor fee for you, thin spread.

If you sign up with the link down below, after your first $100 purchase, they'll give you $30 for free. You get the same deal when you refer friends and family. You can shake your phone every day for free SaaS. They have a satsback visa card, just a million different ways to grow your Bitcoin sacks. So check them out.

Again, links are down below. Leaden.io you can use for a ton of different services. In particular, I find them useful. If I ever have a cash flow issue, if I need to get my hands on dollars, but I don't want to sell my Bitcoin. I can debaise it here, get a loan of dollars to my bank account, and then when I pay back those dollars, I get back the same amount of SaaS. They do have savings accounts.

They have their B2X offering. They also are starting to roll out Bitcoin-back mortgages across Canada and soon some select U.S. states. So check them out. Links are down below. Start.ledin.com.com. Bit refill helps me a ton with a living on Bitcoin. You can pick up any gift card to your little hard desires with Bitcoin,

both on-chain and Lightning Network. You earn SaaSPack as you shop, and you can get more stats back with the referral program. And if you're in the U.S., they just started rolling out bill payments so they can help you get on that Bitcoin standard. So again, check them out, bit refill.com. Keystone, one of my regularly used hardware wallets,

100% air-gapped. That means you never plug it into anything internet connected. They do it all offline via QR code. definitely upgrade to the Bitcoin-only firmware. Works great with Blue Wallet, Sparrow, Specter, runs the gamut, and awesome in a multi-sakes. So check them out. I also have a tutorial for this one,

so be sure to take a peek at that. And finally, if you're backing up any important Bitcoin wallet, get it in solid steel paper. Not the most secure way to store it. So Bill Fottle over at PrivacyPros.com, has you covered. This is how I'm backing up my stuff. Just gives me that peace of mind, fire, water, damage, all that kind of stuff.

Accidentally throwing out pieces of paper. that can happen. So just be careful with those seeds, whatever you do. But with that, let me stop my rambling. Let's start bringing in our guests. We got Das, we got Sab, we got James. Welcome, gentlemen. I'm very glad to have you. I think it's time that we do a quick round of intros so that you can let people know who you are and what you do. So I think I'm going to start off with Das. Can you let people know? Give a little intro. Hey, Ben, pumped to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, names Daz. Das, Das B, on Twitter and I'm from Australia, North Queensland and I'm an electrician and involved in education through with these foreign gentlemen through lookingglass education.com. So I pumped to be here.

Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for being here, man. Before I brought him on, I did the cardinal sin of referring to an Australian as a New Zealander or a keyword. And I should know because every time that I travel, Canadians are very, picky about people being like, oh, are you American? So I'm just like a big piece of shit today. But welcome to the show, Dan. You're forgiven for a Yankee, you know? No, you're a Canadian. So I'm going back at you. Yeah. Well, uh, let's rotate down. James, welcome back to the show. Can you give yourself a little intro? Hey, Ben. Good to be here. Uh, so I think some of your listeners may know me as James Lavish on Twitter. And I am, uh, I'm an institutional investor. I've been

an investor for God help me over a quarter of a century. So I'm, I think I've been investing longer than said has been alive. But, you know, that's cool. And so, and I'm all in on the Bitcoin protocol and how it solves so many of the issues that we are seeing, deep issues that we're seeing in fiat currency and monetary policy. So glad to be. be here. I'm also involved with these guys on the looking glass education platform. And I am honored to be with them because quite honestly, I'm about a quarter of Smarters two times then. So well, dude, I'm very glad to have you. We got to hang out a little bit at Bitcoin 2020 this year. We had that little brunch with Walker and everybody over there, I believe. So it was good.

That's right. That's right. But yeah, glad to have you back. And let's rotate one more time. So welcome. Give us a little intro. Thanks for having us, Ben. Honestly, it's a pleasure. And you create such amazing content, so I feel pumped to be on. So my background, I used to be a manabai constructor.

I've always been passionate about distilling kind of biomechanical movements into their simplest form. And on the side, I've always been passionate about finance and piecing together this complex world. And so that's where looking glass kind of came to be. And it's, again, just distilling that complexity of the financial markets into its simplest form. and with a focus on Bitcoin because it really is this unique, incredible thing that I think everyone needs to understand. Awesome. I love that.

Where is your choice place for mountain biking? And do you have a favorite spot in the globe that you've really enjoyed? You know what? It's probably where I live. I live in Whistler, British Columbia, so just north of Vancouver. And I moved here 2008 when I was 14, and I've never left. I absolutely love this place. I don't think, I've always said to myself, I'll leave when I can't afford to the

live here anymore and at the moment houses are pretty expensive. So time could be coming unless Bitcoin decides to make some moves. Well, since you're since you're close to Vancouver, I'm going to be in Vancouver. We're doing a meetup on July 14th. You should make your way in. I'll be there. Awesome. Yeah. No, much space. Yeah, love it. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, again, welcome to the show. And everybody here that's watching, thank you so much for coming along. If you're new to the show, If you're unfamiliar, this is called Why Are We Bullish? Very simple premise. Each one of us is bringing a reason why we're bullish,

something we're excited about, something we want to chat about. So we go by the three R's effectively. Somebody's going to drop a reason why they're bullish or excited. Next, we're all going to riff on that reason together. And then finally we're going to rotate to the next person until we all get a turn. And so I'm going to get us started with my reason for being bullish this week. And so my reason for being bullish is is calculators. And more specifically, these little calculator friends here,

my cold card, Mark 4. So I did, I was very excited to do my cold card tutorial this past Monday. I dropped it. And it was this beastly two hour. Ooh, nice, man. I love it. I've got so many. those sticking around here.

This thing is an absolute beast and so versatile. And I've always loved cold card, but holy shit, I got into this tutorial. And my goal from the beginning was I want to cover just everything that this thing could do. And I quickly learned that that was borderline impossible because there's so many little features and cool things that you can do with your cold cards. So I ended up, as I was putting it together and like starting to write out all of the things I wanted to cover and I started to dive in and experiment, I realized how little I was actually utilizing all of the things this device could do. And I don't think I've ever seen this out of a hardware wallet. But like, holy shit, the versatility that they've even just down to.

so you can have trick pins. So you can, you know, in some devices, you can have a secondary pin that goes to like a decoy wallet. But the way that Cold Card does it, they do, they do trick pins so you can customize them. So it'll be like, if this happens, then this happens. And you get to signify, you get to set out like, if this pin is put in, it's going to go to a duress wallet.

If this pin is put in, it's going to wipe the seed. If this pin is put in, it's going to brick the entire cold card. If this pin is put in and then X amount of time elapses, then this will have, there's so much granularity to all of the things that you can do with this. And like I, sorry, I'm going to go on a bit of a rant here because I just, I was very excited as I got into this. like so and I've got the the time stamps up here but so so these are the time stamps for for for the tutorial so like I've got the basics which are pretty much like you know some of the need to

know is and prerequisites but then like initial setup sitting up your pan and backing it up doing your transactions like air gaping them and then pairing it with sparrow wallet on desktop, but then just like a couple other things, upgrading the firmware and restoring a lost wallet. So that's all I cover. That was about, took about 45 minutes of the tutorial because I get pretty detailed as I go through it. The remaining hour in 15 minutes was just advanced features, like creating a seed with entropy using dice or all of the trick pins and things that I discussed there. BIP 85, which is this insane feature where you can have a single, and I'm going to close my screen down here for this part, but BIP 85 is super interesting in that

you can have a seed phrase that you create with your cold card. And that's kind of like the parent seed phrase, but you can then derive individual like, separate seed phrases from that parent seed phrase. And you can create up to 10,000 of them. And you don't need to actually back up any of those. All you need is the one parent seed phrase. And should anybody get a hold of one of those wallets, there's no way for them to work backwards and figure out the parent seed phrase,

which is the master backup of all of them. So it's just like, I'm working through this and I'm going, Jesus Christ, like I didn't understand that any of this was possible. Like on top of that, they've added, you know, the typical you can do a passphrase and everything, which is great. But they've added things like virtual disk mode, which the cold card functions in kind of its purest form is doing air gaps transactions. So you'd have, say, spare a wallet on your on your computer. and you would have your extended public key there. So all of your receiving addresses and you could receive to it.

But if you want to actually approve a transaction, then kind of the reason you get a cold card is to air gap it. So you set up the transaction in Sparrow, you put it onto an SD card, you bring it over to your cold card, and then approve the transaction, and then bring it back to Sparrow so that you never plug this into anything internet-connected. What they've done now is,

is you can plug this in directly and just use it as a regular hardware wallet, but they've got this in between. And I didn't understand what it did initially, but it creates a virtual disk on this. So it's just like plugging in a thumb drive. But you can kind of, it's like an in between, between fully air gaping it and plugging it in and just using it directly with Sparrow. The virtual disc allows you to.

pull your any file whether it be exporting the wallet or or assigned transaction onto the virtual disk and and export and do all this and the difference is is when you just plug this into a computer and you you just sign transactions with sparrow directly plugged into your computer you're giving control of the hardware wallet to sparrow or whatever interface you're using. With the virtual disk mode, that doesn't happen. Because you're still taking files and putting it on and pulling it off of this segregated virtual disk on the cold card.

There's no approving it through Sparrow or through some third-party software. The beacon of truth is still the device itself. So there's just so much. I was able to, like they have a cool cloning function now where. if you have like say an old Mark 2 and you want to upgrade, it's like 30 seconds to upgrade and like migrate everything over to a new device. I'm just, and on top of that, they've added NFC, which hasn't been rolled out to third party wallets yet, but I'm hearing rumblings that blue wallet is going to be the first to do that.

And then you can like tap your phone to relay the transaction to the cold card, approve it, and then tap to relay it back. There's just, I, again, I haven't seen this degree of granularity and optionality in a device yet. It's pretty wild to me. On top of that, I was very excited about the case that I got for it from CryptoCloaks. So shout out to Rick over at CryptoCloaks. He sent me a few.

But holy shit. So I'm going to open it up. I'm curious in general. your experiences with Cold Card. First of all, if you've used it, and then, you know, what do you defer to in terms of hardware? Are you curious about Cold Card if you have not used it?

Hopefully you are now that I've ranted. But anybody who wants to jump in, thoughts? You know what? The first thing I would say is I wanted to highlight, you talked about kind of these trick pins. Back in December, this is personal story, but basically back in December, Canada. I fled Canada down to Mexico and I was petrified because I was basically carrying a large

portion of my net worth in my and at the time I unfortunately was using a ledger not a cold card. I wish I was using a cold card. But I wanted to highlight the importance of this trick pin, which is when I was driving down through Mexico, we were driving. We couldn't have anything on us because we couldn't make it look like we were moving. And so I had basically my net worth in my little ledger in my jacket pocket driving down through Mexico and there are carjackings all the time. You're driving through Mexicali, which is I think one of the second most dangerous city in the world. And if anyone basically pulled us over, put a gun to our head and basically just said, give me everything you've got, I could, like, if they knew what this ledger was, they could go

and ask me for those funds. And so before I left, I ended up using a trip pin and I just put like three or four hundred bucks on this kind of alternate pin so that I could show someone legitimately, this is all I have, this is all my money, and go and send in that money, knowing that my actual wealth is stored behind in the secondary seed. And I think that that's so important, if anybody hasn't looked into trick pins, having an understanding that you can basically create a secondary pin that can basically store an alternate wallet. So if you want to go show someone your hard drive without revealing your true funds,

you can do that. It's so amazing. And it really opens up the possibility of these ledger and cold cards and other hardware wallets. Absolutely. Yeah. Gaz, you're holding up your cold code. I've got a Mark 3.

I'm a huge fan of these guys, actually. And it's just like just some of those things you've illustrated. They really go out of their way to think about all of the different attack vectors and challenges that people will have. And by the way, privacy and usage concerns and personal attack vectors as well. So I think I heard, is it MVP? the overarching guy from Coinquite on one of these pods recently where he was talking about that NFC feature

and they even consider the fact if you don't like that idea, there's very clear instructions on how you can scratch out the track to disable that feature. It might be on these new Mark Fores or it might be on one of their other products, but they just go to that end level of engineering to make sure that they're tackling all of these things and to provide you a solution that is tailored to head,

you want to interact with your Bitcoin. And that I'm actually just going to jump straight on an order a Mark 4 because some of those extra features are just incredible. I use these for my personal Bitcoin. I use them for my superannuation fund, which is our retirement accounts as well. I've got Bitcoin allocations to that. And, you know, playing around with all of those different ways in order to minimize that single point of failure using these for multi-sigs and so forth.

There's just a plethora of ways that you can interact with it. And it does, a lot of that can scare people as well. But at the end of the day, if you just want a simple solution, these can cater for the people who are just looking for that simple solution as well, as well as providing for those people deep down the rabbit hole who want to fully maximize their, how they interact with their Bitcoin. It's absolutely fantastic. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I'll echo what you said about the NFC thing. It's going to be hard to show. but like basically where the SD card is, there's a little thing that says NFC inside of it. So the SD card is out right now. But there's like this little kind of like foil type thing. And you can literally just take something and scratch it to like break this circuit. So that NFC is permanently disabled.

So if you're a person that's like, I don't want NFC even accidentally turning on, you can disable it on the software. But if you're like, I don't, I want anything like that turning on ever, then you can literally like, Rodolfo sets up stuff like he builds it for himself because he's thinking like fuck that I don't want any sort of whatever but if people want it I can offer it but I know for me I'm going to be scratching that shit off like so he he has that adversarial thinking to him I've got to

before I move on to James here and get your thoughts somebody in the chat here they were talking about they were talking about Seed Siner as well. I've got to give a shout out to Seed Siner because it's such an awesome project, totally open source. The idea behind it is it's stateless. So it doesn't retain your keys whatsoever. And you can build it yourself out of a Raspberry Pi Zero. So I built one and did a video on it. And then I got, there's a guy named Black Coffee BTC who created a really cool case for it.

but like it looks like a little Nintendo pad. But it's awesome. So like you can, again, like it's totally stateless. You load it up and you can create seeds. You can transcribe them onto like I was amazed. So this was like from tutorials,

but you can transcribe them. I drew that. So you just take a Sharpie and you fill in the dots wherever the device tells you to. and it just goes like in a grid. It's like, okay, move over to this next block. Tap, tap, tap, tap. And you literally transcribe your seeds.

And so you can create regular wallace, multi-sick wallets. It works with sparrow specter, like all that kind of stuff. And you can effectively, it's just, it's also a great tool for recovering a failed hardware wallet. Because it doesn't retain the seed, but you can be like, I just, I need access to this to move. it because this one died. And so you can just literally type in a seed phrase and it will for until it's turned off, it will retain that seed and allow you to construct and send transactions with whatever interface you choose.

So yeah, I got to give a huge shout out to Seed Siner. The guys over there that are volunteering their time and basically working on donations to keep this thing going are incredible. If you haven't peaked at Seed Siner, also. super awesome. I'd say these things are like a match made in heaven. But yeah, I think that they're, it's all fantastic. So a shout out to a creature in the in the comments that talked about talked about Seasiner. But James, I'm going to toss it to you. Have you played around? So I'm probably, I'm the only one here. Well, I don't know if Sebs to use one yet, but I have

not used the, the cold card myself yet. I've seen when I've played around with it, but I haven't use it myself. And I've got to admit, I've been waiting for the Mark 4, signed up and waiting for that to be delivered. And I was scared to death that it was going to arrive before you did your tutorial. I mean, I'm so pumped. I'm more pumped about your tutorial, your tutorial because I, you know, I was like, I've got to wait until Ben does a tutorial before I mess something up on this thing. So I'm actually super pumped about that. Yeah. It's a bit of a marathon.

So, you know, maybe go through the beginner stuff first. And then once you get comfortable with that, come back to it later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. But I mean, I love just the idea of, said what you were saying about crossing state lines are going down a, going through a hostile environment, which, you know, not to get all dark and dreary on our, on our cocktail Friday here. But man, I think having something like this is probably very well, very worth the money, like well worth the money.

So it, we could find ourselves in a lot of different places that have, you know, some uprising. So even in the States, you can find pockets where that might be happening. So you just never know. So definitely highly, highly, highly, highly recommended. Yeah. I actually thought you were referring to the U.S. as the hostile environment. say. It is, right?

I feel like Canada might be a slightly more hostile. That's right. I had those trick pins going for, like, holy shit. I was confused. Who's going to kick in my door? I better get those trick pins up and running. I'm not a truck driver. I'm not a truck driver.

Yeah. Get rid of that hat on my shoulder. You know what? Like it really, I think going back to kind of the whole self-custody thing, now is like more than ever you need to self-custody. And I think people don't recognize how important is now that we're seeing Celsius and these hedge funds collapse. And now we see BlockFi coming out looking for more capital. Like we don't know how much risk there is in the system.

And so more than anything, if people have not self-custodied yet that are listening to this, they definitely need to self-custody. And a fact that I was talking to Das about this earlier today, a fact that I heard the other day, which blew my mind is that the banking system in 1982, 1991 and 2008, lost more money than it is. made in the entirety of banking. So it's just like, do you want to keep your funds for these guys that have lost more money than they've made on multiple occasions or store it yourself? And if that doesn't speak for self-custod, I don't know what does. Yeah. It's something important point, said, because like the banking, people think that these

defyceams are scams, but the banking system in and of itself, like with these bank bailing laws that exist in various countries and, you know, G20 countries, they can bail in your funds. if that institution is failing and they've made some dodgy loans and they're in trouble, they can actually bail in your savings deposits and issue a share in a failing institution. So they did in Greece, right? Yeah, Greece, Cyprus. There's a history of this thing going on. And if you dig down into your own jurisdiction, like here in Australia, we have very explicit laws

that say we will bail in your deposits if we're in trouble to save ourselves. So, you know, I sleep very well at night knowing that my, you know, wealth is, you know, geographically dispersed in multi-sig custody solutions, that there's no single point of failure. It takes some time to get used to. It takes some education, you know, and thank God for Ben putting these fantastic tutorials together because without them, most people, it's out of most people's reach to be able to do that. But if you've got access to, you know, good educational material to step you through that and hold your hand while you do that you can you can sleep comfortably knowing that your wealth is completely out of reach and it saves

you so much time i mean for me to pour through the manuals and figure all that crap out i mean come on i'm i'm 51 it's just not happening it's going to take me a lot so it is it's hugely helpful 100% awesome well yeah i mean again if if people aren't yet self-custodying it it's it's time right Like if you're watching this right now and you're like, I've been putting this off forever, you have to make that first step. You got to. And as soon as you do,

you're going to start getting much more comfortable than you thought you would be very quickly. All right. So, you know, if you're super worried about it, start simple. Go download just a wallet on your phone and just transfer a small amount. Just to learn like how do I receive my funds from my exchange.

and how do I hold them myself? And then like, you know, take off 20 bucks or 50 bucks and backup your wallet and then delete the wallet. And then go download a different one and use your backup to recover it. Just for that peace of mind of going, oh, I've done this before. I understand. I know this works. I can get this as long as I've got this backup. I'm good.

Those steps are massive to that self-concern. confidence of, oh, I actually, I literally deleted the app off my phone and I was able to recover it with these 12 words. And that's, it's, it's this massive psychological hurdle to get over. And once you get there, you go, oh, I'm, I'm much more comfortable doing this myself than trusting a bunch of Yahoo's that are leveraged to the tits and lending out my Bitcoin, right? Like you got to be so careful and so conscious. And I mean, really, that was the point of Bitcoin was to not have to trust in third parties to safeguard your money and be the gatekeepers that say whether or not you even get to use your money. We've seen plenty of that where for whatever reason, whether it be political or insolvency or whatever has come up, there's been more than enough examples even in the first. six months of the year to point to the reason why having any type of money, whether it be

Bitcoin or Canadian dollars or whatever it may be with a trusted third party, there's definite risk there. And again, the examples abound. So yeah, I mean, just think about it. If you have a few hundred bucks, you go down to the park, you meet somebody. And he's like, you know, you guys are walking your dogs. And he's like, hey, it's cool dog, you know. And, hey, by the way, If you have any money in your wallet, you just give it to me, then I'll just start sending you like, you know, 5% of that or 10% of that a month. Like so you got, you got 100 bucks. Just, you know, give it to me and I'll and I'll give you 10 bucks every month. And then when we meet up later here in the park, I'll give you $100 back.

I mean, would you do that? So why are you doing it with thousands of dollars? Or some people are doing hundreds of thousands or millions of like, why would you do that? It makes no sense. I mean, like your first reaction, be like, well, what are you doing with the money that? that you're going to send me 10% back every month. It becomes even more ridiculous when the precedent set is, give me $100 right now.

And every month, I'm going to send you back 20%. Exactly. Like, it should be a simple question. Like, what are you doing to give me that? Like, and is it,

there's got to be a risk there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Is there a possibility I might not get back my entire $100? Hmm. what's the yeah it's just saying if you don't understand

where the yields coming from you are the yield yes yeah I think that's one of the best quotes to come out of this like everything over the past couple of months here it's it's yes indeed you you are the yield um it's it's just insane to me

I mean it's it's frustrating but at the same time I guess the thing that we should recognize is that because Bitcoin, there's no lender of last resort, I mean, I guess other than Sam over at FTX, but because there's no lender of last resort, we're just seeing these implosions happen quicker

because you're dealing with an actual scarce asset and you can't just like fractional reserve it to no end. That's just not how it works because some people are going, going to demand actual settlement in real Bitcoin at some point. And that's when shit hits the fan. So I guess it's just a symptom of, and it's going to take a lot more of this. Like we're not even close to done. Like not this year, not next year.

Maybe in a decade, people will start to smarten up and be like, geez, this, this globally, global immutable, scarce, hardest money that, humanity has ever seen is probably not a good thing to fractional reserve. You know, it's going to take a while for fiat bankers realizing they're not fiat banking anymore. And so I think it comes with the territory. It's just going to be a lot of hard lessons learned by, unfortunately, people that don't know how the legacy system works, let alone how Bitcoin works. They just see number go up. They get pulled in. And because of Bitcoin's kind of black swan number go up story, they think that every number go up story is equally valid. And it's an

unfortunate symptom of the miracle that was Bitcoin being created and actually working, that people, again, refer to that and think that there can be a next Bitcoin when that's incredibly unlikely. And the problem as well is that, and this is what frustrates me, is that we see, we're obviously, we're fighting this Fiat system, but the Fiat system muddies the waters. Because it dilutes the currency, you then have all of this money chasing malinvestment. So we also see the downstream effects of that in Bitcoin. So we see, let's just say, hedge fund A decides they go and do their research. They decide Bitcoin is a phenomenal asset and they want to invest in it to be able to preserve wealth. So they go and invest in it.

But the thing is hedge fund B sees that hedge fund A is investing in it and decides, you know what? If hedge fund A does well, they're going to steal my customers. So I have to go and invest in Bitcoin just in case as a hedge in case hedge fund A does well. Now hedge fund C sees this and so suddenly we see all of this money rushing into Bitcoin, and Bitcoin rockets up and Bitcoin is doing phenomenally well. But then the problem is when we start seeing macro events like we're seeing right now, Bitcoin starts to collapse. And so the frustrating thing is that people now believe if you're not familiar with Bitcoin, if you've not done your research, you believe that Bitcoin's value proposition is failing,

but you're not realizing that actually this is just a downstream effect of distorting the money. And this is all of this liquidity that's just sloshing around. It's trying to find a home when you're just devaluing the currency. And so this is not an issue of Bitcoin. It's an issue with distorting the money. Well, not just that, but it's also that, you know, Bitcoin is the most liquid asset that you have in your possession, right? I mean, I can't sell this house in 20 minutes if I need capital. If I'm getting a capital call or a margin call, if I'm getting a margin call on my stock portfolio, right, which I'm not margin in my stock portfolio.

But let's say that you were, right? And, you know, where are you going to go for that? You can go try to get a line of credit. You can pull down some credit from maybe some. cheap financing from credit cards or something like that. You could sell things. You're not going to be able to sell physical gold that quick. You're not going to be able to sell your house that quick.

You certainly can't sell your art or collectibles that quick. You know, where is it going to come from? You can't get it out of your private equity. You can't get out of your venture capital. I mean, but you can easily get it out of Bitcoin. It's the easiest one to liquidate and to cover those calls, right? And so that is part of the problem we're seeing with that down. of all of those of all of the technology stocks.

I think that a part of the correlation is not just the hedge funds playing it. And I've said this a lot. They're playing it as a sloppy hedge, which they are. But it's also that they're the same. It's the same mentality for people who are early in Bitcoin because I still think we're so early that they're also in all of those arc investments, those really high beta tech stocks that have had that serious drawdown. And so they're looking for capital.

So this is an easy one for them to access. That's just, you know, coming from my world, it's just, you know. Great point, James. 100%. It's so interesting how, you know, the whole ethos behind Bitcoin is this low time preference, this, you know, ignore the noise. You're looking at kind of the long term of the fundamentals of why this thing even needed to exist in the first place and kind of the trajectory of where it's going.

in the long term. So a lot of Bitcoiners tend to think in terms of years and decades rather than weeks and months. However, because of the nature of Bitcoin and because it's so good at being liquid, when you exhibit high time preference behaviors in other assets, you end up having to liquidate your most low time preference asset, which is super unfortunate. But I mean, stupid games, stupid prizes, I suppose. But it's just the nature of how good Bitcoin is. 100%. It definitely rewards people that don't have that inclination to be high time preference,

even in other areas, even if they have the mindset of, I'm going to be super low time preference in my Bitcoin allocation. But then their high time preference in other allocations doesn't matter, man. like if that's the most liquid thing that you can get your hands on unfortunately that's what you're going to end up dumping at probably the most inopportune time super shitty so gentlemen i think i'm going to wrap my topic i love that we we really like just took a u-turn and went in a totally different direction and i love these little like radical you can't trust these two I mean, these two, yeah, you can't trust them.

They're, I love it. I think it's fantastic. Rabbit trails. That's why they called it through the looking glass. They just love going down the rabbit hole. They want to go far and deep down the rabbit hole as they can get. The last name is Bunny. Yeah.

No, it's great. I love it. So I guess we'll wrap that one there. I guess I'll finish off by saying, one, if you're not self-custing right now, Start learning right now. Go download a wallet. Go down blue wallet, moon wallet, whatever it is on your mobile and just take off a little bit of Bitcoin from your exchange and just start with that.

50 bucks, whatever it is, and just learn and just start there. But if you're already into the weeds and you're looking at hardware wallets, this thing is fucking awesome. So check it out. So with that, we're going to do a rotation. I'm going to jump to Das and you are up. friend. You get the mic. What has you bullish? What are you excited about? Yeah. Well, it's probably a good segue from what their last discussion just on the education sites. That's why I'm bullish is this massive groundswell that we're noticing in the education

space just with people so motivated to dedicate their time, efforts, energy into looking at ways that we can spread the good word that is Satoshi's vision, you know. I shouldn't use that word. That's pacing it with Satoshi's vision, but it's Satoshi's vision, which is the OG Bitcoin. should very clearly clarify. But, you know, we're bombarded with people coming out of the woodwork through our looking glass education platform with people just saying, give us this in a curriculum format, give us this in a slide pack, give us this so we can go out and help start with meetups

and start spreading that education. And we really see this education movement as being a full ground up, ground, you know, a full ground swell of people from that bottom up level, we're going to infiltrate schooling systems and education systems and, you know, people building out education centers in, you know, the likes of, we met a guy named Dushki in Dushan in Honduras. You know, there's so many people working in this space to make education the forefront. And that's what makes me really, really bullish, is. I think, you know, often we get trapped into these narratives and the stories about the top down level approach where like this government's accepting Bitcoin or this government's pro Bitcoin or this senator's putting a bill together.

But I think Bitcoin is inevitable. And it's going to come from the bottom up. And, you know, you can't stop an idea whose time has come. I think I tweeted, you know, echo those words that somebody's great quote. It's time and it's happening. And we're working really hard in the background on building out our course offering into some curriculum. Our goal is to keep that, you know, free and accessible to anybody who needs that education. So, you know, those slide packs will be available for people to download, take to their meetups, you know, incorporate into their curriculum.

We're getting so many teachers saying, I want to teach about money, you know. and we feel as though that educational journey is just really coming in and of itself where you don't need to be shoving Bitcoin down everybody's throat. Once people understand the system, the way it's engineered, the way it's going to continue to integrate in society, all of those byproducts that are very, very evident now, i.e. inflation, people are starting to wake up and they're going, what's wrong with this system? why, you know, they're starting to ask their own questions. And we feel as though if we can help provide that educational data,

that educational platform, those courses, all that, all that material, that it will, it's inevitable. People will, I'd say start looking at the money, how it works, the buy products and how it impacts them. Bitcoin is a natural evolution to say, ah, that's where I should be looking. And that's where I should be pointing my time. And overwhelmingly, that's just coming, you know,

we're seeing it every single morning. seven i have in meetings with people saying i'm an educator i'm a teacher how can i help that's why i'm bullish i love this i love i love the the ground up like individual kind of bottom up approach like you were you were referring to you know top down through the regulators i mean it's it's fine that people attempt to attack it that way and in some cases maybe that that might work. You know, I'm still not inclined to to say imposing Bitcoin on people is a great thing. But, you know, favorable.

I kind of view anything top down as just a method to buy time, right? Buy time before somebody with bad ideas about Bitcoin gets in and passes unfavorable regulation. because in a situation where enough people are exposed to it, it's already too late. If people already know how to use it and use it peer to peer, then all the bad regulation in the world couldn't do shit. But I love this bottom-up approach because that's what that accomplishes, right? Like starting with something like Bitcoin Beach, where individuals on the ground actually start using it

and seeing benefit from it themselves and actively choose to use Bitcoin, I think that's fantastic. And I feel like there's been a number of things over the past year and a half, two years, where people have really kind of opened their eyes and realized, hey, you know, this is actually useful for a number of different reasons. You know, whether it be the stuff in Bitcoin Beach, whether it be the stuff that just happened in Canada, whether it be Alex Gladstein and the Human Rights Foundation, there's just an endless array of stories from people like out of the Oslo Freedom Forum when I was there that we're talking about.

There are particular use cases in parts of the world where they have totalitarian governments. And they just, their bank accounts are shut down. They can't transact. They're not allowed to utilize anything other than their nation's currency. and, you know, to paraphrase Ian Malcolm, Bitcoin finds away. And so it's just you route around all the crap and you just have this base layer of the language of value for people to interact with. And I think it's fantastic. But I'll open it up to James or Seb if you want to tag into what Dad said.

Yeah, I mean, just really quickly, these two are the ones who have led the way. way on the looking glass educational platform. And their passion for it is like there's just like, you know, dads was saying kind of working from the ground up and and, and all of the education that's out there. When I first started looking at Bitcoin back when in 2018, there was none of this was really, it wasn't, it wasn't easily accessible like it is now to me, you know,

I wasn't in this. It seems like it's so much easier to access now. And there's so much free content. And I know there were books out. They were kind of out and out or lying, you know, on the fringe, a lot of message boards with how to do things back in 2016, 2017. But I, you know, this makes it mainstream in a way that really connects with people where they are. And that's the hard part. It's like finding a way to connect to people where they are. We're not taught the stuff in schools. We're not, you know, we can go into the reasons for why we're not.

But there's no incentive to make people intelligent on these matters from the people who are benefiting from the system itself. It's not conspiracy. It's just, it's just reality. I mean, it's just not taught. but to have the passion of people like, you know, Seb and DAZ, just and even, and you've been out there teaching people how to do these things, how to, how to physically use these wallets or, you know,

what are the benefits and drawbacks to each one? Daz and Seb talking about base layer money and what it's, it's history, its uses, its evolution and how it relates into, you know, our current status. us and our current problems and and why bitcoin makes sense not not that you know from the forefront hey

here's bitcoin but let's let's start at the at the first principles and go from there and being able to connect all those dots now is extraordinarily powerful it's so useful and and i think you can come at this in so many different ways you could be a school teacher of firemen you could be from traditional finance you You could be a doctor and you can find anywhere along that spectrum, people who can speak to you in your language that you can understand. And I think it's amazing. It's awesome. It is critical.

And I think that's how we fix this issue that we find ourselves in. So, yeah, 100% das. Well, and you know, I've just been blown away. Like, the more you dig into Bitcoin, the more you realize that it truly, truly speaks to everyone. And I've never seen an opportunity like that ever in my lifetime. And I know that I haven't been around that long. And Daz and I, we have this little prospectus that we kind of send out to a few people. And in that we talk about this thing called like the ladder to self-sovereignty.

And that's basically where like the majority of the world sit on the first run, which is literally just survival. They're literally living hand to mouth. You've then got the second run, which is contentment. Then you've got savings. Then you've got investing. Then you've got prosperity. And then you've got generational wealth.

And all of us, no matter where you come from, we all sit somewhere on one. of those rungs, but Bitcoin speaks to everyone, whether you're looking at it purely from an investment standpoint, whether you're looking at it from, I'm just trying to be able to transact so I can save my family, I'm trying to flee my country just to get out of totalitarian control. Like, I've never seen an opportunity like this before, and I'm sure that you guys feel the same way. It's mind-blowing. Yeah, absolutely. It's it's one of those things where you can attack it from so many different angles because it's relevant to everyone. You just have to understand the person that is curious,

right? I mean, step one is the person actually has to be curious, right? They have to be wondering and receptive to learning anything. But step two is is on behalf of the person that's quote unquote instructing. You need to understand at what angle you need to approach this. You need to, you need to, you need to as a teacher ask questions of your student to get a better understanding of where they're coming from so that you can feed them the information that is necessary to their understanding of Bitcoin because everybody's coming at it from a different angle. Some people are coming at it from a wealth preservation angle and some people are coming at it from a transaction immutability or censorship resistant angle.

there's a lot of different places that people can be coming from. If you talk to somebody who's 20, it's going to be a lot different than talking to somebody who's 50. Because, you know, if you're 50, 60, 70, you kind of understand the transition that happened from being on a gold standard to not. If you're 20, you've only ever grown up in a Fiat standard. So there's different understandings of the world

depending on your demographic too. So tailoring what you're saying and your education to the student is very interesting. And unfortunately, for a lot of Bitcoiners on Twitter and stuff like that, I see as much as we preach low time preference, everybody teaches with such a high time preference, right? Oh, just go to this page and you've got, It's just like plain text with a whole bunch of links to like 17,000 websites on each every, each and every intricate facet of Bitcoin or like, you know, oh, I've never, I've never used Bitcoin whatsoever.

Great. First thing you're going to need is you're going to need to spin up your own node. You're going to need to go peer to peer via Bisk, in which case you're going to need to buy some Bitcoin so that you can put it as collateral. And then you're going to need to coin join. you're going to like guys slow the fuck down step one is get off zero step two is self custody step three is maybe a hardware wallet you got to take those steps because what's your end goal your end goal is to get the person to be as self-sovereign as possible with a sound monetary asset if if your first instruction makes the person go oh fuck that and walk out the door you have failed

so you actually have to cater and you have to think end goal is this I might only get this, but it's better than nothing. So you want to kind of have those tiers of success as opposed to like a net zero right off the top. So you got to stagger your expectations and baby steps because that's not how you learned. That's not how other people are going to learn. All right. So, you know, it's a really good point. Something seven I talk about often is, is.

is, you know, how do you distill down the thousand hours that we had to put in to really understand this thing? How do you distill that down into try and get the main points and ran them home? And, you know, it's a good point. Those emotional connectors, like, it's an old sales axi from back in the day was like people listen to W-EW-I-FM. What's in it for me? So you have to be hitting those points to everybody comes at this from a different angle. And then what is that angle? And, you know, you really need to speak to that.

So how do you distill down? Nobody's going to put in a thousand hours of this thing if they don't understand, if they're not genuinely curious. But how do you get in front of that person to say, here's why you should be curious? There's issues here that you need to start picking, pulling the threads on. And the only way you can speak to that person is to hit those emotional triggers to say, oh, I didn't realize I was getting fucked by the monetary system, you know. I didn't realize there was actually, I knew there was something going wrong,

but I didn't know how to channel that thought. I didn't know where to start picking at that scab. You know, so it's, it's, how do I get in front of those people to, to start them down that path? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that you've said that you have teachers saying that they want to teach about money and that you're effectively providing those resources to have that framework to start somewhere. because that means that that bottom up approach is working and people are looking for resources to do that. So it's by providing that resource, by providing that, hey, come here, you can pull a unit

and use that in your class and then you're set. That's all that a lot of these instructors need is I just need a framework. And like, I mean, teachers get the shit into the stick, right? Like that's a hard, low paying job. So to have these resources where they can be like, okay, I can work with this. Great. I've got something.

It's kind of structured for me. I can set this out. Lesson plan. I'm set. It's that all that they've had up until now is this spoon fed Keynesian bullshit. And they're like, well, I guess I got to teach this. And maybe like if I don't think it's correct, I can like throw in some of like some contrarian points but like what else do I structure this on?

So it's it's an incredible resource for teachers, I'm sure, to be able to go to something like looking glass and say, okay, I need some help. I know that the current system is bullshit. I need a structure to be able to flesh that out with my students. And I think that's massive. So yeah. Well, and you know what? Like at the moment, Das briefly mentioned it,

but we're working on distilling our current self-paced course into the school curriculum. And we want to be able to have that accessible to any independent teacher. If they want to go and teach this stuff, we want to be able to give that to them. And it's going to have slide decks. It's going to have all your teacher's notes. It's going to have your lesson plans.

It's going to have group activities, individual activities, because we recognize that for most teachers, they get paid when they're teaching in the classroom. They do not get paid creating the lesson plans outside of the classroom. And so if we can assist them and we can give them high quality education to teach from, that is phenomenal. We just want to be able to make it as easy as possible for them to teach this stuff. And so if there's any teachers out there that are interested in trying to start integrating some of this stuff, just reach out to us and we'll have this in the next couple months. And we would love to give this to you so you can start teaching it.

What's the website again? Lookingglass. Education.com. education.com. I'm just going to put this down here so that people can jot that. But yeah, no, it's so important.

The educational space is so important. I know that myself, when I came into Bitcoin, you know, we've already been discussing it on this chat. And James, you were saying like, oh, there's a message board that you got to sort through. And oh, Jesus. So that was like learning Bitcoin in 2014, 2015. It was like, how do I use this app?

And somebody's like, yeah, go here. There's a thread. And if you scroll about halfway down, somebody made a really good post where they outlined some of the steps. You're like, is there like a video on this? So the whole channel. Can I trust them? Yeah, exactly.

The creation of. the channel was literally it spawned from two years of me tearing my hair out for not having video tutorials because I'm such a visual learner that I was like fuck oh my God I got to and then after a couple years I was like okay

well I I fiddled around with that that I feel comfortable enough to show people how to do it and so I'll just film it is pretty much and so most most videos that come out are me fucking up like 20 times

and then filming it one last time and putting it on the internet. So that's basically what you're seeing with the channel. But yeah, more or less, it's just, and now, now years later, like I've been doing this show since 2016, but like years later, there's so many people that are so helpful and so good at teaching people how to use these things. There's so many awesome resources there and people making, like looking glass arm in arm in uh the parmen he always has incredible tutorials uh econo alchemist

is dropping like some fire shit on on bitcoin magazine like walkthroughs of mining and cold card and like samurai and like all these different things um there's so much good stuff out there now and i'm so glad to see the advent of of good education and good speakers and good people that can can talk about these topics in in thoughtful ways um so yeah you're absolutely right i think education is integral just quickly dovetail under that too because what seven i noticing as well is is all of these educators we're really starting to connect and start to talk and because we're also noticing that you know we should be channeling our efforts like if we're speaking to to this particular audience you know we've been asked to do look into children's book and children's curriculum

but we, you know, get onto Scott and Mallory, sorry, is it Scott, and Mallory, and that's exactly what they're working on. So, Sever and I are like, oh, cool, we can stay in our lane here. We know that's getting covered, you know, there's so many of these bitcoins that are just so passionate and they're so, you know, funnily enough, we're not overlapping too much. Everybody's sort of, you know, picking their little niche and doing it and doing it well, and that's really important. So there's a few good little collaborations going on. I think Millsy's working on a collaboration with somebody just looking at who in the space is doing what so that we can focus our efforts on where's not getting addressed. So we're not wasting those resources in doubling up.

And there's another one, DJ Valerie. I think she's got another telegram group where they're starting to look at these things about how, what are people doing in the space? Who needs help and how we can work together to get this collective. out and channel those efforts to where they needed. Absolutely. Yeah, I love this topic. Obviously, like all of us are super passionate on education. And yeah, man, I'm super stoked about what you guys are doing.

I got to bring up a couple comments in the chat. Our good friend Yellow had to chime in. And he wanted to let you know that Das looks like the younger brother of Lop. So just say no. and also yellow has heard that James Lavish drinks only creatin shakes with no milk only in water. Is that true? James, creatine shakes for you? I'll do a smoothie.

A lot of protein in there, definitely. Fruit. I'll put fruit in there. You got to have a cold. Room temperature garbage. So, yeah. I love it. Absolutely creatine.

I'm 50, man. You got to regenerate. all your cells and, you know, the gelatin, and you got to pack it in, whatever I can get. Yeah, man, get the most of it. I love it. Well, looking good, James. Yeah. Awesome. Well, on that note, let's do a rotation.

James, let's jump to you and get your topic for being bold. Yeah. Take it away. I mean, it's, you know, it's not too far off of what, what, what, what Daz was talking about. And something I've been so excited about. in this world is just the intelligence in this community. I mean, I know people get frustrated when you call it a community, but it kind of is. I mean, there's so many of us who think similarly, but it's just absolutely incredible, the brilliant minds that are in here.

I mean, it's almost overwhelming between Greg Foss and Jeff Booth and Lynn Alden and Luke Roman. I mean, like, these guys, they're so smart. And they're like next level, you know. And I find that I can wake up every single morning. And I'm, well, I do. I wake up every morning. And my first thought is, okay, let me check to see what these guys have been saying

because I'm a few hours behind here on Pacific time. And I'm like, what's been going on? And I'll pull up the Bitcoin chart just to, you know, not to see, well, how much money is in there. Just to see if there's been some sort of structural event that that's happened overnight that I need to be aware of. And I go start reading these guys post. they're already digging into the CPI or to what's going on in Japan or what's going on in Europe or, you know, and they're just, but what's, what's refreshing about it is that they come at it in an entirely different way than I've ever seen, you know. I mean, the conversations I used to have on just traditional Wall Street in that world, like all those analysts or those macro analysts, they come at it from an angle. or an agenda that that kind of proves a position or or a theory they've got and that they need to

prove whether it's for their fund or for their bank or for their investment bank or for whatever structure that they're operating in. It's like they come at it from that angle, right? Whereas with these guys, it's just so fresh and super mentally stimulating. You know, they're unbiased and they're independent and they come at it from, you know, an angle of, hey, this is. is sound money. And these are all the problems that are going on around us that have to do with the fiat currency, the monetary policy and the problems with it. And this is how sound money can help solve that. And they all have that none of them have an agenda except to figure it out and help. And I love it. I love it. Absolutely. Like, I mean, between Greg Foss and Jeff Booth here in Canada,

I feel like I'm a little spoiled. I got to meet Lynn for the first time in person last month, and she's amazing. Actually, she's going to be on here on July 8th. So I'm very excited to have her. Actually, her and Rodolfo are going to be on the same episode, so that should be fun. You better get some sleep the night before.

Oh, man, I know. That is some next level intelligence right there. Yeah, I wonder if Lynn will partake in a whiskey with me for it. I don't think I can get roper into it. I need some of those creatine shakes. Yeah. I think so. Yeah, no, just again, like, and that's a totally different aspect of education, right?

Like, there's the, there's the practical, how do I do this stuff? There's the, there's the thoughtful, analytical, where are we now and why are certain things happening on a macro? kind of level. And that's what, and, and I've got to say, I love the juxtaposition of, of Greg Foss versus Jeff Booth. Because like, they're both so intelligent, but the approaches in presentation couldn't be more diverse. Like you have, you have Greg Foss out there on stage of Bitcoin 2020 with his upside down

Canada flag, ready to fucking smash anybody in the head if they say, Throwing F bombs. Throwing F bombs on saying. F bombs. Like calling people fucking knuckleheads. And then you've got Jeff Booth. He'll listen to Greg say something. And he'll calmly trot out like the most, you know, relaxing.

Elegant phrases. Elegant phrase. Like it's just a wordsmith. And it, but it's hilarious because you learn so much from both of them. But the approaches are so different. And I love it. And I love that the two of them can converse and you get this back and forth. That's so fun.

Yeah, it's like those are two of my favorite people. Jeff was massive in, especially the beginning of the year. I was so full of anxiety with all the Canadian trucker stuff. And I legit thought somebody was kicking in my door. Like I thought that was going to be the next step. And so I called him and he was a very soothing. Like he basically just, he just laid out like, hey, you know, this is, we're in a time of massive change. There's, there, you know, we're shifting and people don't know how to parse what's happening to them.

And they, they're being gaslit saying that things are getting better when in fact for the individual, it's, it's not. and we're seeing people benefit massively from the current system, but the current system is buckling under this pressure. And he basically just like calmly explained like during a transition like this, it's going to be bumpy. And that's what we're seeing right now. And, you know, as long as you kind of do what you believe altruistically, then you'll come out on the other side of this thing just fine.

And it was just like such a, again, he just was just like fatherly. hey, let me just drop some knowledge on you in like a calm collected way. And I love them for it. So it's, I mean, he's, he's essentially the guy who got me over the edge when I was doing all the research on Bitcoin and I was trying to put it all together. Let me, Jeff's the one who with it, he was talking to Pomp on one of his, um, podcast. And he's the one who got me over the edge where I finally understood the inflationary, deflationary forces and how they're clashing.

and okay, now I get it. It's just like it pulled it all together. And that was like that little nugget that was just out of my reach. But you have these people who are so thoughtful. And they're going deep, like really deep on these subjects. And they just sit. I can just see Jeff sitting in his office and just thinking about these things and trying to think how they actually work out and mapping them out. You know, I can see it's like an older form of Seb, you know.

And just, you know, just. And just super, super intellectual and thoughtful. And like you said, and then he delivers it to you in a way that is understandable. But it's also, it's very, it's very metered. So he doesn't come across as this, you know, because his ideas are, they're very progressive and they're out there, right? But he doesn't come across as this guy who's saying, the world is ending. he's just like, the world is ending.

That's definitely my conversation with them. He was like, well, the world is basically going to implode, but at the very end of it, you're going to be totally, it's totally fine, you know,

it's just, it's just all like possibly nuclear war, but that level of like, the thing is awful, but it's okay. I would pay good sets for an album of Jeff Booth's positive affirmations. I think we're proud fun for that.

Yeah, you should have like subliminally put into your favorite soundtracks. So you're just hearing them in the background. Like, and you don't even know it, but your subconscious can hear them. That's what I want. I think that'd be fantastic. I would do. Yeah. You'll be fine.

Yeah. You know what? He very much, like there was one moment. I remember, I was sitting in the forest. I go and walk my dog and I just go and sit in the forest and listen to stuff and think. And he said something that really resonated with me, which was the fact that inflation may be saying three. You prove my point, by the way. Just to sit in the forest and think.

Like, I feel lucky. I live with a forest. I'm looking at a forest right now. I sit outside here in Vegas and just think. I mean, I'm like under a skillet because it's 190. agrees out. Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Sam.

I apologize. He basically just said, like, we live in a deflationary world. And what people don't recognize is that when we look at inflation and CPI says it's three, four, five or eight percent what it is right now, that's not from zero. If we live in a deflationary world, that could be from negative five, negative six, negative 10 percent because every year technology is advancing. So the cost of everything should be coming down. So let's just say it's negative.

five, that means inflation of 8% right now is actually 13%. That's nuts. That's nuts. And people do not recognize it. Because they've been brainwashed into thinking that inflation is normal. I just, I'm going to swear once on this show here, Ben. Inflation is not fucking normal. It's not okay.

It's not normal. It's wrong. And exactly as your point, Seth. I mean, like, if you went out and bought a TV, today, right? When I went out to buy a TV and I was in it, I just got out of college and I want out to buy a TV back in, you know, 1994, 1995, I literally couldn't afford one. Not what I wanted. It was, they were so expensive, you know, just back then, just in 95, 94. I mean, you could get the same TV now for like pennies. Like literally pennies. And it's in the technology so far advanced.

It's incredible. I mean, it's just a simple, obvious answer. You know, your cell phones, these things, I mean, these are, they, they have so much, but this is more than every single computer I had put together all the way through college, you know, and it's, it's far, far, far, far more capable and far less per, you know, piece of information it can it can uh analyze or you know you guys get the point but it's not just the deflation of the products it's also how or the or the the technologies it's how far the technology technology has advanced for the same price because that's my point so yeah we sent people to the

moon with far less technology than is in your phone right there like that's mind that's mind blowing exactly yeah and again people that are watching that we've been talking a bunch about jeff booth but people may not be familiar people that have not heard of jeff booth he wrote this book called the price of tomorrow and so so the and the the tagline in it is why deflation is key to an abundant future and he basically outlines how if you had just like a a fixed currency and you did away with the idea of, you know, like James is saying, inflation isn't fucking normal. This is a human injected element of money.

And it's more or less taxation without representation. People can extract wealth and reallocate it elsewhere. If you've got a set amount of goods and services and ingenuity in humanity, and you can create a certain amount of goods and services, then the money, regardless of the number of units, simply just represents those things. And when you create more money, there's no more things available.

It's just there's more units representing the same amount of stuff. And so then the question becomes, who gets the new units? And spoiler alert, it's not you. You might get a nice little check. here and there and feel richer in terms of the number of dollars you have. But if the numbers in your bank account were a percentage of the total amount of dollars, you would realize you're getting fucked every time. So we need to realize that money, the dollar amount doesn't matter. The

percentage of wealth that you as an individual hold is what matters. And with Bitcoin, when you hold a certain amount of Bitcoin, the total percentage of Bitcoin, that's a total percentage of Bitcoin, that you own from the total of 21 million that will ever exist remains static forever if you hold the same amount. Actually, it probably even, it inflates. Yeah. Because, you know, people are losing keys or whatever. Yeah.

So your, your value, it actually goes up over time as, you know, some of these wallets become or just stay dormant. Yeah, I mean, 100%. Yeah. And like the crux of the ideas in Jeff's book is that, you know, the only thing that actually creates wealth is human ingenuity and the ability to create more from less effort and less human time. And so in a world where that is true, which we see it's true, right? You were talking about your phone. You're like the iPhone in the late 2000s and the early 2010s had more computing power than the entirety of the North American missile defense system in the 60s in a single person's phone.

And so with that level of ingenuity, of human ingenuity and the pace at which things are are, are, are able to be made for less. Like when you think of homes, do you think it's become harder to make homes over the past decade or two decades? Do you think it's actually become more difficult to actually get the resources and build the home? Or do you think that they've come up with some ingenious ways to make homes more efficiently and build them better and quicker and with less effort and in less time.

To make your point, I watched last year a company here 3D print a home in a day. So and then they stood it up and it was a they stood up the whole frame. They 3D printed it and stood it up in a day. And it was a two bedroom, you know, stacked house. I mean, like, think about that. And all they had to do is press the button for the printer to print the, the frame and then bolt them together and stand up. They did it. They did it then with four guys.

I mean, that's just incredible, right? So, yeah. And you should ask, if you look around and you ask, well, I have all this technology. Why is my life not easier? Why do I have to work more for the same money as I did a few years ago? Why is it that a family used to have used to be able to comfortably live with a single breadwinner working, you know, 40 hours a week, you know, a couple, you know, lots, plenty of time off to spend with the family. You know, like, why, why was that possible? And all of a sudden, it's like not even feasible for a family to not have both people on average working 40 hours a week.

Yeah, and here's a question. I wonder if dads and seven thought about this. You know, okay, unemployment is so low. Well, how many jobs? I know that I know somebody in my family who has three jobs because she's supporting her family as a single mom, three jobs. Okay, so she's taken up three. How many people are, have multiple jobs? And she's not keeping up, by the way. She's not keeping up. How many people have multiple jobs? And she's not keeping up. How many people have multiple jobs? and are driving down the unemployment rate and still not keeping up. So I think it's like I'd like to see that that look through. I don't know if you guys have thought about that, but it's just like it doesn't add up. Something is not adding up. Of course it's the money.

Of course it's inflation and it's all tied and connected. Well, and you know what? Like there's a lot of people that aren't actually the biggest fan of the book, but I thought it was probably one of the most insightful books I've read, which is debt the first 5,000 years by David Graver. And when you read that book, he basically breaks the economy down. into kind of two types of things. You have pre-money, which is the human economy. This is basically where we give back to society out of a moral obligation because we fear we want to contribute

and we want to maximize the benefit to society. And then you have the commercial economy, which is post-money. And this is where people now, they don't give back to society out of a moral obligation. They give back to get something. There is now a contractual obligation. The moment you have money, you're going to give something in return for something else. So now what happens is you immediately have a suppressor and an oppressor. You start to have the master the slave. You start to create hierarchy. Now, the interesting thing is when you start fucking with money through inflation, we only amplify that issue. And this is where when it comes to Bitcoin, what I think is so fascinating is I believe, and this is kind of a little more philosophical, but I believe that we can

potentially go back to that human economy because if we've got a deflationary currency in a sense where our purchasing power is increasing over time, then this lower class, the people that earn money for a living, the wage earners, their purchasing power is going to increase. Those people are going to be at a work less, to be able to spend more time with their friends and family, to be able to do the things that they want to do, which then gives them more time to give back to society. And so this is beneficial for everyone. And I think that people just don't recognize how much inflation destroys our economy because it's from the bottom up. We're destroying our working force. We're destroying the majority of people's living. It raises a good point to Iran, and I don't mean to get all political on this

thing, but I really believe Bitcoin to be completely central. On the political spectrum, it's completely central. It speaks to the capitalist, yeah, it's evilical. It speaks to the capitalist in people like value for value, put more out. You'll get more back in. But it also speaks to if we're really serious about, you know, all these ESG narratives, and I don't care if you buy into them or not, you know, in this net zero by 2050. If we've got a planet full of finite resources, we cannot be continually photoccurable.

focus on forever growth. We need to be shifting into a deflationary model where, you know, if you hold onto stuff and you put off consumption and you, you know, delay gratification, you are rewarded over time. And on a feat monetary system, it's exact opposite. You are not incentivized in any way, shape, or form to put off consumption. Consume, consume, consume, consume, now because if you don't, you can only, you can only buy less with the energy that you've stored from your work all these years. And it's got, yeah, exactly. That's exactly right.

And Bitcoin just dovetails into this, into all philosophies as far as like if you really want to go down that ESG drivers, it fits in with, you know, making renewables, you know, without going down that rabbit hole. But making renewables are affordable and you can build out all these, you know, all these generational facilities that otherwise are not profitable. You can introduce a second customer to the markets. You know, it just touches on all of these things along that political spectrum. And if we're all serious about having a better world for our children,

then that is a deflationary currency is the only solution moving forward. Yeah, absolutely. Again, anybody watching, if you haven't read it, Go read Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth. Excellent read. It'll give you a good overview of all the stuff that we're talking about. Like the inability of those two ideas to kind of coexist. you know, forever consumption versus versus like a pushing towards less.

The world will end, but you'll be okay. Yes. We'll sum that up there. Awesome. Well, yeah, I love that topic. Again, I'm glad we got down to Jeff Booth, rabbit hole because those are always good. But I'm going to give it a rotation here. We're going to, I'm just really quick.

yellow wanted to also mention that he heard that Seb was a fisherman on season three of the deadliest catch so thank you for that yellow and he perfectly last time he perfectly timed a humorous transition

so thank you for your yellow transition but Seb you were up next your reason for being bullish feel free take the mic first off I have to say I despise fishing. You know what? When I was a kid, I went and sat on the dock. So I grew up in New Zealand. I've got like a bit of a New Zealand British accent. I grew up in New Zealand and I'm going to sat on the dock

down from my house and I spent like four hours trying to catch a freaking fish. And my brother came along. He sat down for 10 minutes and he caught one and I've never fished since. I hate it. So anyway, that's fishing for me. So anyway, back to my reason. You know what? I've said this a couple times on a couple different podcast, but I truly, truly believe it is so amazing, which is the fact that when you look at our current Fiat system, our coercive Fiat money, you don't see people dropping their day jobs and giving all of this time and energy to go and support the US dollar or support the Canadian dollar. Like, I am truly humbled and truly, like, you're blown away by how incredible Bitcoin is

and its community from a voluntary standpoint. This is like a voluntary currency that people are giving up their time and energy, just as all of you guys here have. they're giving up your time and energy to do something for the betterment of society because you believe it's going to help with humanity's prosperity moving forward. And I just think in the long run, it's going to be a bumpy road and nothing is certain. But I hope and I feel as if we will succeed purely just because I've never seen millions of people globally all come together for something bigger. And just to highlight that, like, I spoke to a guy in Nigeria two weeks ago. And this guy in Nigeria,

African-American at the end of the talk, he just says, like, there was almost kind of a bit of a tier in his eye, and he's just like, I've never seen white and black people come together for something that is, it's about humanity, and we're all for a bigger cause. And I think this is phenomenal, and I'm proud to be a part of this community. And I just want to help support and educate as many people as we can with the resources we have. I love that. It is, again, it's to the point that we were talking about earlier, totally apolitical. right it's it's a tool that anyone anywhere can use and so you know you spoke with somebody from nigeria you've got um ferrida from togo uh there's there's uh on non foede diop from senegal um

and all of them are using bitcoin in a way that is is tailored to the situation that they have in their country. I spoke with a woman from Nicaragua. There's a lot of discontent with the government down there and not a lot of ways to push back and fundraise for things. And they're able to get money and value into the country using Bitcoin because they don't have access to banking there. It can unite people.

And even when it doesn't, I guess to jump back to, to Jeff Booth here. One of his quotes that I've really liked recently is, he was in El Salvador and a lot of Bitcoin skeptics were in a room and he got to speak with them and talk to them about Bitcoin. By the end of his talk, they were seeing some of the benefits, but they asked him, well, what's the worst thing about Bitcoin? And he said, well, the worst thing about Bitcoin is that not only do you have to be

okay with the person you hate using it, you have to realize that them using it makes it better and stronger for you. And for them, that was kind of a difficult moment or a difficult thing to parse through. But that's the way that Bitcoin works. It, you know, we see, let's take a look at Ukraine right now, right? You have, you have it benefiting individuals in Ukraine that were able to get out of the country with some portion of their wealth. You saw people that were trying to get protective equipment into the country, tried to do it through. In fact, I'm going to have a girl on that actually.

She saw, it's going to be her and Jeff booth coming on, but they're going to be discussing with me. She saw the Canadian trucker protest and saw kind of like how we were able to raise funds. and she looked at what was happening in Ukraine. She's in Poland and she wanted to get protective equipment into the country, mostly helmets and protective vests and stuff like that. She looked at all legacy finance routes and it was going to take weeks. She got supplies into the country on day two because she used Bitcoin on day two of the war. And then on the opposite side of the fence,

you have individual Russian people that have basically been cut off from the global financial system. They can use Bitcoin. That doesn't discriminate based on where you are. And then you even have the Russian government, right? And they're giving favorable treatment to various different, like the third largest energy producer in Russia is now partnering with a Bitcoin. company to mine at some of their sites.

And so it can literally benefit anybody. We have to be okay with that because it's just a tool, right? It's simply an apolitical tool that anyone can use. And by saying that we can't use it because bad people can use it, bad people are still going to use it or whoever you deem as a bad person, your enemy will still be able to use it. the only person you're hurting is yourself by not giving yourself access to this incredible tool. When it goes back to the whole amoral thing, which is Preston, Preston Pish did, he tweeted something,

when was it maybe a couple months ago that I thought was just so pertinent, which is the fact that it's just like a knife can be used by a robber to go and mug someone, but a knife can also be used by a surgeon to go and help save someone's life. And Bitcoin is one of those things. It doesn't have morals. Bitcoin isn't choosing who to support and who not support. Anyone can use Bitcoin. and you just have to be okay with that because it brings greater, like greater good to the world than it does bad. Yeah, it's interesting because right now, like we live in a system, like in the top down system. And this is a conversation I had with somebody at the Oslo Freedom Forum. It was one of the people that helped with some of the organizations around the tracks and everything.

and we got into conversation because there was a guy on stage and he came up on stage and he was like he had it was one of the talks I was like oh shit this is these two ideas are going to come to a head but he was he basically like peddled out a list of companies and and and he was like here's an ESG list of companies so that you can allocate your portfolio so that you're not in some way supporting a totalitarian government or a bad person through your investments. So the issue with that, again, is what we've just discussed. You know, like they're actively at the Oslo Freedom Forum. They're actively saying like, hey, Bitcoin is a humanitarian tool.

You can use this as a way to, you know, basically protect yourself from governments, that are debasing, protect yourself from governments that are censoring transactions, so and so forth. But that doesn't parse with the idea of not investing in things that bad people can use. Because as we just examined, anybody can use this. And they will. There will be dictators that use Bitcoin. There are dictators that use Bitcoin. I can guarantee it.

And so we got into this talk and she was like, I love the idea of Bitcoin. Bitcoin, the thing is, you know, everybody's talking about this grasswood's like bottom up approach, but I think we should talk about it in terms of a top down approach because, again, her argument was bad people can use it. I was like, well, that's just not the reality of how it works. It's not how it's going to work. So right now we have a system where in the top down approach, in the best case scenario, and again, I'm putting quotes around bad and good people, but in a best case scenario, the good guys control the monetary system, and then they're able to look down and say, okay, these bad guys are not allowed to use it because they're bad.

And so we'll stop them from using it. But the inverse is also true. In a top down system, when you have a bad government that oppresses its people, they get to then look down and say, hey, those good people that are trying to protest and do things and allow for human rights, well, we're going to cut them off. And so what Bitcoin does is it,

removes all of that. And everybody has equal access. So in the place where the good guys would have had control, well, now they can still use the monetary system as free and open, but the little bad guys in between, well, they still have access to it too. And you just got to deal with that and, you know, deal with the laws of the land. But the inverse is true in the, in the bad scenario, in a bad scenario where you have a totalitarian government, they get to use Bitcoin. They could do everything they want with it, but the dissidents in between the human rights activists that want to rise up against that, they can no longer be cut off. And so it's not even a question of whether that tradeoff is worth it. It's just a fucking reality now. This is the world we live in and people are

going to have to figure that out. And another reality is that honestly the currency of choice for drug dealers, sex traffickers and whatnot is a $100 bill, man. It's a $100 bill. I mean, that's why we print those things. Why are you printing so many $100 bills? How many $100 bills are you having your possession, Ben? I mean, like, honestly, right? I have no dollars, my friend.

Right, right. So, but, you know, and there's another thing that we don't talk about is Bitcoin can't be, it can't be counterfeited, right? I mean, like you can't just create some Bitcoin and say, oh, I'm going to, you know, buy this car with cash, you know, the Bitcoin cash, right? You know, you just can't do it. It just doesn't work. So, yeah, it's back to your first principles, which is, you know, it doesn't, it's not about, it's not about who's using it. It's about the ability for anybody, anybody to use it without oppression or manipulation, period. It's like you spend a couple of days in the bush and you dehydrated and you come across a live stream and it's this, you know, oasis and you reach down, but you're not going to drink the water because a fish shit in the upstream, you know. Right. Leave us in the odd.

Jeff definitely would be far away from his story. He does not eat. He doesn't eat fish shit either. And I guess, I guess like just to sort of wrap this. back up in the Seb's previous point is I've never seen anything which aligns and concentrates so many alike, like-minded people who just are striving for a better world. And it doesn't matter what your background is. And we spoke about earlier, what your driver is, how you come across Bitcoin. But like once you speak to people who really get it, like, Seb and I often joke

about this, we've been, you know, having many conversations with many people reaching out to help. But We can tell within about five minutes, the people who really get this and are really aligned. And it's like you can have a conversation with these people for hours because you just align on so many different levels and so many things that it touches. And, you know, you can tell the grifters in about, you know, just as quick, who's here just to, you know, and that's fair enough as well. We don't begrudge anybody who's trying to get ahead. But like, it's just so funny that, you know, within that five minutes span, you can really tell who really gets this thing. and who's aligned in their in the values. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, gentlemen, I think I'm going to start to wrap it here a little bit. What I'd like to do for the end here is typically I do a quick round of final thoughts. So anything that you wanted to touch on lastly, but I'm also going to give you guys a little challenge and hopefully I don't put you on the spot too much. But I'd love for each of you to recommend any piece of content or reason. resource that you've come across that has helped you in your Bitcoin journey. It doesn't have to be specifically Bitcoin, hopefully like tangentially related, but whether it be a book, a video, an article, and a podcast, whatever it may be, something that has

helped you through your Bitcoin journey. So while you guys are mulling that over, again, final thoughts for the day. day is, I guess on my topic from earlier on, check out the cold card if you have not already, but even stepping back from that, just start down the path to self-custody. It is so important and it will continue to be more and more important over time. It's the only way to shelter yourself from the mistakes of custodians, right? You have to take that personal responsibility for yourself. And there's so many fun rabbit holes that you can go down and learning about self-custody. You can go as simple as just, okay, get off zero, learn how to use a Bitcoin

wallet, and then get a piece of hardware. That's it. Or you can dive down all kinds of fun, multi-sig, like duress wallet. There's so much there. And it's a lot of fun to experiment and learn. In terms of content, I listened to a good podcast this week. It came out, and I'm just pulling it up really quick, so I don't say the wrong episode here. Oh, maybe I deleted it. That's okay. I can pull it from memory. But it was Citadel Dispatch from Matt O'Dell.

and he had on Nico from Simply Bitcoin and Seth for privacy. And they had a pretty good conversation. They talked a little bit about the Canadian trucker protest, but they talked a bunch about Bitcoin privacy in general. And yeah, I just really enjoyed the conversation. So I think that one is worth a listen. So go back, check out, if you're not listening to Citadel Dispatch already,

awesome show. But yeah, go give it a listen. So with that, I'll rotate over on DAS. I'm going to go to you first. Any final thoughts and then any recommendations? No, just very much appreciate the chance to come on and talk while we bullish.

Great platform. Very appreciative of everything you put out. You can find me on Twitter at Das B-E-A number one and looking glass education.com. So like Seb said earlier, reach out and if you're involved in the education space, we'd love to hear from you. And if we can provide any tools moving forward, that'll be great.

I've actually got two good resources. So one's a recent new resource. It's the Australian Bitcoin podcast. Justin from Hardblock, it's a Bitcoin-only exchange here in Australia. He's done a phenomenal job with his podcast. But every week he's doing a Bitcoin news wrap up. And I'm very appreciative of that from their respect that I don't have time at the moment with everything going on to really keep on top of everything happening in the space.

And he's doing a phenomenal job on, that's the one, Australian Bitcoin. So he's done a phenomenal job in wrapping up just the high-level news items just to keep abreast of what's happening in the space. And the second one I'd recommend is Lynn Alden's investment letter. I've said this on a number of pods now, and that's $200 a year. She has a free newsletter as well. Highly recommend you subscribe to that, the premium area as well. She just gives you such a good macro backdrop into what's going on in finance markets. investment portfolio recommendations that you can follow along with.

Absolutely undervalued phenomenal content. And I can't rate it highly enough. You're on mute, Ben. My bad. I love that you brought up Lynn. She's just such a powerhouse. I love her. And it was really cool chatting with her when I got the chance.

So yeah, love it. Awesome. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate that. Let's rotate over to James. Any final thoughts and any recommendations? This has been awesome. I really always enjoy talking to you guys.

It's intellectually stimulating and it helps ground me and and reinforce that we're doing the right thing by trying to get out the message, you know, and just doing whatever we can to help people along. You know, my world is so opaque that anything I can do to help people understand what the hell goes on in it. I feel it is good. And in the context of what we're talking about and monetary policy and fiscal issues around around the world, you guys are all a huge help in all of it. So I appreciate it.

And I appreciate you having us on here, Ben. So as for something I saw recently, you know, I saw Preston Pish on what Bitcoin did recently. I really loved his tremendous tremendously simple example of monetary policy in central banks on various monopoly boards and acting in an orchestra. And it's it's a it's super, super simple, but it helps bring it together for people to understand how these guys are operating. And I think it was great. I truly enjoyed it. Yeah. That was a solid episode. I really enjoyed it. So yeah, if you haven't listened to it yet, that was a great one. So yeah. Let's rotate. Let's head over to Seb. Final thoughts and

recommendations. You know, I would definitely second James and just mention to anyone who wants to watch it. Don't listen to it. Definitely watch it. Like they have it on YouTube. And if you listen to it, you're not going to see the charts. And Preston's charts are freaking phenomenal. in terms of the recommendations first, I would say, you know what, if you're already deep down the rabbit hole and you want something a little more philosophical, I would go back to the Robert Breedlove,

the Michael Saylor series at the very start of his What is Money, and the Jeff Booth, which follows Michael Saylor. And those two are some of honestly the deepest and thought-provoking podcast series I've ever listened to it. And so I highly, highly recommend that. In terms of kind of final thoughts, I would just say, like,

I just want to thank education. in the space and everyone before us. I think the Bitcoin community, considering it's only been around for what coming on 13 years now, it's just mind blowing at how much information is out there. And the pavement that's been laid before us and this knowledge is just unbelievable. And so I really just want to thank everyone out there who is contributing to the space, everyone who is writing for the space, everyone who is just doing their part. I think it's amazing.

And that includes you, Ben, I think what you're doing is phenomenal. And so I really appreciate you having us on there. Dude, thank you so much. Yeah, it's always awesome to have incredible bitcoinsers on here, well alone ones that are working to educate everybody on everything Bitcoin and bring people into the fold. And I think what's happening with Looking Glass is it's going to be so invaluable to those that need a place to start to help educate others.

That's kind of the main thing that I'm really excited about is having that resource for people that want to teach others. I think that's just, again, something that we haven't really had yet. And I can't wait to see what's going to spring forth from it. Because when you have something where people can go and say, okay, I've got my base, I can start to share that out. and the minds that that will capture is going to have payoff for days and months and years and decades. It's going to be incredible. So gentlemen, I want to thank you so much for all coming on. Of course, all of anybody that's watching, all of their Twitter handles are down below,

along with the Twitter handle for a looking glass. So make sure you give them all a follow. And then from those Twitter pages, you can find everything. else that they're doing. And yeah, gentlemen, I'll just say again, thank you. And you're welcome back anytime. Thanks a lot, Ben. We really appreciate it.

I love that. Thank you, Ben. Cheers. All right. Thanks, guys. Everybody, thank you so much for watching. Again, that's part of my week. Every week, I get to just chill out with Bitcoin.

This is the best. So thank you again so much for being here. In terms of anything else coming up, again, I'm going to be in Vancouver coming up on July 16th. I'm doing a, actually, I'm doing two workshops, one for beginners on self-custody in the morning and one on a deep dive for cold cart in the afternoon. So if you're Vancouver and you're more of a hands-on learner,

then you can come to that. I'm going to, tickets are no longer going to be sold after this weekend. So if you're kind of humming and hauling about it. You got a couple days left and then I'm going to cut that off just because, especially if you're doing the cold card workshop, we got to make sure that devices are, if you order one, that one is there in time. So, but yeah, anyways, you can hit that up at BTC Sessions.ca.ca.ca.com slash events and I'll just bring that up here right now. But yeah, BTCSessions.com slash events, you can hit that up. But if you're just looking for something

to do this weekend and do a bit of learning, Hey, check out that cold card video. That'll take you through a ton of stuff. And you don't have to have the Mark 4 to go through that. You can get through the basics with a Mark 3. No problem. And you can just ignore the virtual disc mode. And then you're pretty much set.

Other than that, thank you guys for being here. Like, subscribe, share. All those things super important. If you want to help the show on another way, you can hit up the sponsors down below. Shake Pay, Lead, Bit refill, Keystone. Bill Fottle. They're all down here. Follow all the guests. And if you really like what you saw, you can always hit me up with a Bitcoin tip at my strike page, strike.me slash VTC sessions.

Get there. Type in any amount you want. You'll see a, if you hit the tip button, you'll see a lightning invoice or if you tap to the right, a big regular Bitcoin QR code. With that, I am out. I will see you guys next time. Have a wonderful day or evening wherever you may be. See you guys next time for your daily session. Bitcoin.