BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Jeff Booth, Nobody Caribiou, Gary Cardone - BTC CHAT ep376

Episode Date: November 11, 2023

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What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. Got an all-star panel here today. Very excited to have all these gentlemen here. Should be a good time. Plenty to discuss. Lots going on this week. I'm bullish for, we'll call it a personal reason this week. But very excited to have you all here. Of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The fucking thing sucks. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share, all those things. Oh, but a ton. That little like button is just down below. Slap that. Share this to all your socials. That really does help a ton. And, of course, if you're not already, subscribe.

We're getting close. I feel like this year is the year, well, I mean, coming up to hit that 100K subscriber mark on YouTube. So help me there. Go hit the subscribe button. Anyways, guys, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we dive into our panel, let's take a quick look at where we are in the market right. And now this is TimeChane Calendar.com.

We're sitting at $37,441 per coin, a single year. US dollar will pick you up 2,671 sats. In terms of fees, not quite as bad as they've been the past day or two with all the craziness on chain. 70 sats per byte for next block. Anytime you're sitting at around six sats per byte and Mempool is purging anything south of three sats per bite. And in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.54 million of them. That is 93.04% of the entire supply. Shout out to sponsors to the show, hottlehottle.com. stack and sats and you like to do so in a way that is instant self-custody, peer-to-peer, and no K-YC.

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And they have the full starter set. Gets you everything to set up with two full seed phrases. You can check them out. Links are down below depending on where you're shipping to. Last couple here, shout out to nunchok.io and their assisted multi-sig. This is a multi-sig setup that you do on your mobile phone. They handhold you through everything. You can use all kinds of hardware, tap signers, cold cards, and a bunch of other options.

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So you can host things like Bitcoin Core, your lightning node, mempool, dot space, files, passwords, photos, AI, Noster, all that stuff on here from your own device. They've got entry level all the way up to what I'm running, which is the Start 9 server peer. So check them out, start9.com. And you can use my code, BTC sessions with a little plus sign at the end. to 18% off. Anyways, enough of my rambling. Let me get my screen off here. By the way, I am bringing up the chat on the side as well so that I see you've already

been, I've seen you already been jumping in the chat, but now it will begin to populate. And I'm going to bring in our panel here. So I'm going to say a big welcome to Jeff and to Keraboo. And to Gary, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. Let's dive into it and do a quick round of intros for anybody that may be unfamiliar. I'm just going to go in order of what I see on my screen. So Gary, I'm going to toss it to you first. Thank you for being here.

Can you give yourself a little intro, who you are, what you do? Yeah, sure. Gary Cardone, managing partner of Cardone Digital Ventures, a fund that invests in blockchain and Bitcoin and companies related to that. energy background, deep payments background. And I just put money to work and help companies get supercharged in an EBITDA positive manner. So that's, that's me. Awesome.

Well, welcome, man. Welcome to the show. Caribou, I feel like this is a bit of a reunion here. It's really good to see you, man. But for those that I'm familiar, can you give yourself a little intro? Yeah. The Curious Bitcorner. a big fan of BTC sessions and currently working on building a Bitcoin and health consulting firm

built on Bitcoin called Fini 21 and that's it. I like the name, obviously. That's great, man. I'm glad to have you. It's good to see you and welcome back. And Jeff is always great seeing you. I hope you're well, but for those unfamiliar, can you give yourself an interest? You too, buddy.

Entrepreneur wrote the price of tomorrow and now I'm GP at EcoDeft Capital, investing solely on top of Bitcoin, creating the ecosystem on top of Bitcoin. Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'm glad to have you guys all here. We're going to be diving in momentarily. Now, the beginning of the show, we're going to have a little bit of a departure just for a quick minute here. Gary, you and I did a space as the other day. I quite enjoy it. I thought it was a good

conversation. I had a lot of fun. We had a whole bunch of bitcoinsers up on stage two. I hope I hope you enjoyed the combo as well. Did you get a lot out of it? Sure. I didn't get thrown out. So I made it to first base, man. You know, I used to have a boss said the only way to steal a second is to get the first. Awesome. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad. It was a lot of fun. And the people that we had up as we kind of wrapped our combo and we had a bunch of bit corners up. I thought they were all a lot of fun. Some of them I recognized. And yeah, I'm glad a lot of people came into that one too.

So anyways, we did the spaces. And I had some people message me and ask me questions about, you know, something on your end that was going on in and around the FTC and a four. Oh, how dare you? You're going to bring this up? I cannot believe you, man. The ball is on you. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So I, you know, I, you know, obviously, like, people had some concerns about something, and I just wanted to give the opportunity to, one, be as transparent as possible. You know, Bitcoiners are a bunch that they don't trust, verify. They go and they go and look up people as soon as they enter the space. So I'm sure you understand that. But, two, I wanted to give you the opportunity to kind of,

outline, you know, what's going on from your standpoint, and then people can kind of Google the shit out of whatever they want, and then they can make their own decisions. Does that sound fair? Yeah, the only thing I would ask is if you buy any of it, what I'm getting ready to tell you, I would appreciate not Googling it because you guys understand better than most. It just spins it up. Okay. So if you want to hurt me, cool, re-google it, Google it. It's only going to get me advertising. So let me take you through this thing. If I could, uh, You want that screen up? If I can, let's see here. I'll grab it up for you. Oh, you have it? Oh, yeah, if you could pop it up. Look, this is basically, the document I'm going to take you through was written by Sam Levine.

He is the director of the FTC. And if you guys could just not read it just yet, I can't see it. One sec here. It's just being finicky for me. One sec. Okay, there we go. Probably need to make it a little bigger so people can see it. But look, this is, this letter is dated November the 7th, 2023.

First off, I've done a few things for everyone. I've highlighted some words in here that I think we should focus on because this is about, and I think Jeff will attest to this. I'm not asking Jeff to attest for my honor, but these words are really important, okay? So first off, a law enforcement action, this is not a criminal suit. This was a civil suit. The FTC started over three and a half years ago. Okay. And now if you look at the second paragraph, it said in a complaint filed in April,

2023, this complaint has been not filed, but it's been bothering us, irritating us, and intruding on us for almost four years. So this was not done just in April and then settled yesterday or three days ago. This has been going on three and a half years. This company spent $7 million defending this case. Okay. So not sure why anybody would spend $7 million to defend a $100,000 settlement, but I'll let you guys make that judgment for yourself. It took me two years to figure out they only wanted $100,000.

So this is the process that we live in. The first, the second sentence says Florida chargebacks 911 is owners have agreed to settle that will prohibit them from working with certain high-risk clients and using deceptive tactics to stop consumers trying to dispute chargebacks or charges in the chargeback for the chargeback process. Now the first thing I want you to notice, we already have the government done. deciding on what high risk, low risk merchants are. We have never, I will swear on a note,

I have never handled an illegal transaction. Transactions under MasterCard and Visa have an MCC code, merchant category code. Those codes are legal. The high risk clients they talk about have MCC codes. They show up to our office. I'm no longer a part of this company, but they show up to our office with one bank account

or 50 bank accounts. They have been KYC'd AMLed by Major League banks and or ISOs and or acquires that support those major banks like J.P. Morgan and the rest. So these are not illegal merchants, but notice already they're beginning to differentiate one merchant from a category. And this would be the example. An adult merchant that sells pornography, which we don't really handle that much anyway, but an adult merchant will be treated differently and his rights are different than a person who sells a bushel of corn in a grocery store. I would ask you, and we've been fighting for 12 years with the government and the card schemes, why do you treat these two legal merchant category codes completely differently?

And why, in fact, do you start to discriminate and now you put it in writing? Third paragraph, this suggests that this was done in April. This was not done in April. It was done three and a half years ago. Okay, so maybe a big deal, maybe not a big deal. Clearly, this is written by the director of the FTC. And the most important issue here that you should consider when judging this event is the following sentence.

The chargeback process, this is a quote by him, The chargeback process is a key protection for consumers who wish to contest unwanted. Let's focus on the unwanted piece. Unwanted, comma, fraudulent, comma, or incorrect credit card charges. I totally agree with number two and number three. The chargeback process was a nuclear option, the last resort button to hit when there was a fraudulent transaction. fraudulent means I use your credit card Jeff Boo. You noticed it on your American Express card and you called American Express it.

That was not me. Somebody stole my card. It happens, but it does not happen to the tune of 600 million times a year in the United States, which is the size of the chargeback problem is 600 million unique disputes a year. Visa MasterCard, Google Face it. Google, Facebook, and others claim, and us in chargebacks now one claim that this is a 75% of all those chargebacks, or what's known as first party fraud, okay, friendly fraud, or basically the consumer or its issuing bank, Bank of America as an example, they file those chargebacks on behalf of the consumer.

Okay, so Mr. Levine is literally saying, and this is, this is, this is, this. This was what took three years, guys. He still believes to this day after this case that a customer, in fact, he's advertising it, and I would suggest to every retailer and every acquiring bank they should wake up. He's literally telling 300 million people, anytime you have a product you bought online that's unwanted, use this nuclear option.

Okay? Now, this is not sustainable. This is the same type of behavior that our politicians have said and allowed the cops in San Francisco, Northern California, L.A. to allow a crew of people one at a time walk into Nordstrom still $800 and no one's going to prosecute them. If that's true online, in store, under cameras, major retailers, I'm pretty sure the fraud going on online. is outrageous, right? And chargebacks 9-1 has a business trying to protect the merchant. That is all we've ever tried to do. So unwinded is I was stunned by this press release, okay, because this really opens the door. I'm sure Visa MasterCard are going to be concerned because this is basically

a green light to every consumer and a warning flag, I think, to every merchant. The rest of it goes on and talk about value-added promotions, reducing chargeback. Look guys, I have literally built seven businesses over 40 years never had a civil inquiry, no criminal inquiries, no suits, no bankruptcies, no civil incidences at all. Forty years, no red flags. This was, is a hunting expedition. He clearly states in line in one of these lines, hey, we're sending a signal to everyone. We got successful.

I will continue to push on Visa MasterCard. They are the most draconian duopoly this planet has ever seen that makes massive profits. Y'all are laughing, but this is outrageous. If Visa, if ExxonMobil or anyone in the Bitcoin community made a 51% net operating margin, that's Visa's 35-year-old company makes a 51% net operating margin, handles 52% of every credit card in the United States. Yeah. That's not like we would be having riots in the street of Exxon was making that.

Exxon, by the way, makes 10%. Yeah. Google makes 20. He's a master card 51 and 46. I think I've made my case. Fair enough. All right. So again, I'm glad.

Thank you for like kind of running through that. Again, like there's, I'm sure there's a bunch of people here that we're just, you know, they are on a. where in the first place, but I think it's good. Anytime that people have questions about this stuff, I think be as transparent as possible. And then people can kind of, you know, let me just add one thing, okay? I have a choice. I could have not settled this. Okay, my partner happened to be my ex-wife that complicated this. This has been three years of brutal. This is about a governance problem. I had a decision to make. I either agree to the settlement

or I spent another $7 million and two and a half years to make a point. And now because of these vehicles right here, the platforms we have, I don't need to make my point in court. I'm going to just drag it right out into the public market. And we can see how these guys do. But someone is protecting these large companies. Don't know who it is. Kind of got an idea of who it is,

but someone is protecting these large companies. I think regulation like this is actually helping the big guys. So people should be aware. Yeah. Well, if there's funny, as you were talking about chargebacks and everything, there's a bunch of Bitcoiners in the audience. They're saying, huh, you can't charge back Bitcoin, which is true. You can send Bitcoin and it gets direct, again, direct to the merchant and everything. The funny little secret, though, is that there are a lot of chargebacks in the Bitcoin atmosphere.

Yeah. We handle a lot of them. It's where you're parsing between legacy finance and Bitcoin, that's where there's a, you know, it's difficult navigating that in between, right? Because you've got one monetary ecosystem that is on these legacy rails that, you know, transaction finality takes forever. And then you've got this new system where in 10 minutes or more or less it's final. And so, yeah, like navigating that and there's going to be people that take advantage of those things.

And yeah, so besides the point, but again, thank you for Sam what you said. And I think, yeah, let's dive into the meat of the show now. And thank you for everybody that's watching for listening through. And let's dive into why we're all here, which is why are we bullish. And so those I'm familiar with the show, very simple premise. Each one of us comes with a reason, something we're excited about currently in the Bitcoin ecosystem, why we're here, what's currently top of mind? The flow of the show is pretty simple.

Somebody's going to drop a reason why they're bullish. That's their chance to rant, discuss whatever is top of mind, whatever is exciting to them. Number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason. This is where we all discuss, comments, questions, whatever rabbit holes we want to go down. And then finally, number three, we're going to rotate to the next person until we've all had a turn. So reason, riff, rotate, simple. So we're off to the races. I'm going to start with a reason for being bullish.

That is a very personal one to me, but still nonetheless, I'm bullish as hell. And the reason why I am comes in around, you know, I guess what has turned into my livelihood, which is educating people how to use Bitcoin and how to secure their Bitcoin and become self-sovereign and use all the awesome tools that are being built by all the incredible people out there. And I've had a great time doing that over the past number of years. And the types of people that I get to educate has kind of, you know, has shifted and grown over the years. And most recently, I was very lucky to be the recipient of a grant from the Human Rights Foundation. And so with that, came a chance to work with human rights activists from around the globe for various reasons that often

are living under tyrannical governments and want the ability to just speak up and have their voices heard and protests, but often can't and find themselves on the receiving end of, you know, their bank accounts being shut down and being basically removed from the financial system. So they can't even fund any sort of protest or, you know, oftentimes even being thrown in prison. And the financial aspect of that is one that they have to navigate. and people are beginning to piece together that Bitcoin can be a piece of the puzzle in solving some of those problems. However, because we're dealing with an international audience with a lot of this, sometimes language can be a barrier because there's not always easy solutions.

There's not always translations and stuff like that available. However, there have been some incredible non-Bitcoin tool. that have been popping up in the past couple of years, and they're accelerating so quickly and becoming so amazing that I'm floored by what's possible, because I'm going to tell you what I was looking at beforehand and what I'm doing now. Beforehand, because of what I do,

I make step-by-step tutorials, and often the language can be very complicated, and I'm doing complex things, and I have, it's very important, the timing of what's said and I don't want, I don't want just like subtitles because if somebody's trying to watch what I'm doing, it's hard to read stuff at the same time. So I would have needed it dubbed over. So then I got to hire a guy to go through and, and translate what I'm doing and say it all and then time it correctly. So there's a lot of logistics in that. And I looked at the cost of

it with the catalog that I'm dealing with. And it was just, it was just completely infeasible for me to to start translating that. But just recently, AI has gotten to a point where I can plunk in a video and have it come out the other end in five or ten minutes, maybe 20 minutes.

And I've got a full tutorial. And it's not just translated and dubbed, but it's the CGI my lips make me look like I'm saying, like I know Spanish or Hindi or, or Mandarin or whatever it may be. And I just want to show a short clip that I've done

because with the grant from the HRF, I've begun work on a series that's going to go through a lot of the things that these NGOs and that these human rights activists need to know to properly use and secure Bitcoin in the situations that they have. And the goal is by the beginning of 20, 24 to have a library in English, probably a 10 video library to start in English, but also in

Spanish, also in Mandarin, and also in Hindi, and then eventually more. And so this is just a sample of what these things are capable of. And while it may not be 100% perfect, oh my God, it's astounding to me and people will be able to watch it and if there's the odd word here and there that isn't perfect, they're still going to be able to understand and get through. And I'm so excited. So anyways, this is a little clip from like part of a video that I put together just last week. The last year, the transactions anteriores in the the page principal here.

Actualization visible. Transactions anteriors enter and are in the billetterer. If you'd have a saldo here, recuperate access to him and capacity to enviar into and out of the billetera in question.

If you, just a little point here, your copy of security of 24-palas is a platform agnostica, what which means that you can use these 24 words with the majority

of the billetters of Bitcoin and recuperate your funds I mean, that's insane. That's insane. Like, it's my voice in Spanish, which I do not know. I know a few words, but and like it just, I plunk it in and off to the races. I just, I kind of, it's one of those moments and like, I'm having more of them lately, but where technology gets to a point where I'm just floored. And the reason I'm so bullish on this is I've had the pleasure of watching people in their Bitcoin journeys and working one-on-one with people and seeing every single day how much faster people

are leveling up and learning how to do all this stuff. And now I get to see it on a global level in many different languages. And the barrier to that is just being crumbled around me. And so that's why I'm bullish. That's why I'm so excited. I think Bitcoin education is going to accelerate like we've never seen before. So I'm going to open it up to you guys. I'm curious, your thoughts, and anybody can dive in here.

I'll go first. I saw a video of you talking Spanish. I was like, God damn, Ben is leveling up his Spanish to it. I was like so impressed. And then I saw me from yellow where Saylor was talking in Arabic and Mandarin. I was like, shit. His BTC session is using that same text. So now I know.

But yeah, it looked legit. Like I could not tell that you were not actually speaking Spanish. That's so impressive. It's wild. It's absolutely wild. It's so cool. Yeah. Ben, for me, this is, you know, this is what I've been talking about for a long time.

So AI has been on the same exact trajectory for 70 years. It's just a logarithmic trajectory, and most people are measuring it linearly. And so when you know that, and so that's why I use that paper folding example, going from fold 34 to full 35 is going to blow people's brains. Like if you think about what's available right now for free, for everybody to use and what that impact is on societies, and then you think in 18 months, it's going to double, right? It just so blows your brains and our societies aren't wired.

aren't able to deal with that. In fact, the entire concentration of wealth and the entire financial system trying to stop that by making prices going up and having to control everything ends up here. That's why I wrote the book. Either AI and the people who are at the top of the system control you or AI is used to free you. It's that simple.

Bitcoin's one side of that equation, and the field is the other side of that equation. And so it's super exciting, super exciting on a Bitcoin standard because Bitcoin becomes a singularity. It actually drives that productivity to all of us. It's terrifying if you're not on a Bitcoin standard and that fight that we're moving from one system to another. That's what we're going through right now.

And if you think it's coming fast now and all that thing, Essentially what you just said is, I don't have to hire a team to do this, and I can touch it to the world. I can do it for free. Next year, it's going to be better. And next year, and next year, a lot better. Next year, it won't be you needing to do it. It'll be your AI avatar doing it. I mean, I'm serious.

I'm actually 100% serious. Like right now I'm training a Jeff mentor to do all of the things that I could do. And all I have to do is feed it more, more of my data. is really simple. I'm going to say it right now to everybody in the audience. If you have your chance to get a Jeff Booth mentor in your life, it is the most excellent tools you could ever get. So maybe you could put a paywall behind that and you'll be able to pay your great,

great, great, great grandchildren's college tuition. Yeah, I love it. Also, in the chat, Canadian Bikorners, who I love, by the way, awesome pod. But they were asking, what's the name of the AI tool? It's called Hey, Gen, like H-E-Y-G-E-N. And it is like it's a monthly subscription thing. But, Jeff, like you were saying,

it's by in a year, it's going to be better. It's going to be cheaper. And more people will be able to get educated that much faster. There's going to be more competition. And soon, again, what you always say, the cost. Maybe. Yeah, exactly. But when I say that, that's why that's so important.

Because when you think about what the artificial company or the top companies are doing today, remember the top companies that you go and invest in because you're trying to save your money are essentially stealing money from people the fastest because they control the AI. So when you talk about the Magnificent Seven that have no barriers under AI, of course they're going to drive the world to fear and drive the world to. regulation because we have to regulate this. The regulation protects a monopoly. It's their only way to be able to to be able to control AI and drive and drive revenues. Otherwise, the prices fall to free. So your Hagen, there's there's a hundred different things like that

right now exploding all over the place and that might be the best today. It might be the best today. Tomorrow there'll be 20 more. Yeah, 100%. Gary, I'm curious your thoughts on what you just saw there. Well, dude, I mean, like, first off, I need to hook up. The applications for an entrepreneur, like, I just tripled my ability to reach into the audience. And, you know, for whatever my reason is, right, I have never done media, but I literally just became, you've just helped me access three quarters of the planet that I would have a challenge accessing.

This is what I am, this is what I left the legacy world for. This shift is happening. This is the polar shift, okay? And it's going to happen so radically and so fast. Like this level up, like the visas of the world, the big players. I mean, look, I work for a guy. once who came from Shell and I didn't like the guy. I didn't respect him. He wouldn't go sit down with the 22 year olds and learn he was the 58 year old guy. He's like you don't respect me. I've

stolen information off of satellites before. Okay, this is their strategy and the strategy that you and I live in like we can't steal data from Conoco on satellites, right? This is a leveling feel. I mean this is like I've been 40 years. Jeff, I see Jeff's This for an entrepreneur, dude, this is basically opening the gates to all the money on the planet. And nobody else has an advantage over you. I've never seen anything like it. So I've got to get hooked up into that. I got to get my whole team like, hey, quit reading any of the old analog books, start studying in the future.

And that will give us the edge. Right now, I think we have probably 18 months to jump in front of the big players with all the money. because they're culturally stymied. They don't make moves like this, right? A million people are going to take small shreds of margins from these people, and it'll be the richest margin on the planet like circles doing. This is going to be painful of the big boys. We all have to collaborate, though.

This really requires a collective collaboration of different people and acceptance for slightly different views and approaches. that would be. See, Gary, I don't think it does. I actually don't think it does because here's what the free market is doing on Bitcoin. And that's why I keep saying prices fall to marginal cost of production. I keep saying it over and over again. The output of what we're talking about is a massive global competition.

And you have no extra advantage than the person in Ghana or Malawi. The only extra advantage you have right now is right now you're sitting on capital. and right now you're sitting on knowledge of how the old world looked. But now you have an open network that's distributing this, and the entire world can just start working on it. And so there is no choice but to beat in an open market, and the choice of that means prices fall faster, and it's global in nature.

And so at least measured in Bitcoin, Measureed in Fiat, the prices will keep rising. But measured in Bitcoin, and that's actually why, for the life of me, I can't understand why there's not more venture companies competing with us because we're looking at this and we're actually, most of the companies are collecting more Bitcoin on the balance sheet because they're growing so fast on this. So essentially you have, you could 10, 100 X Bitcoin returns.

by investing in the ecosystem that is driving all of the advance onto this. I can't believe more people can't see it. What do you think the, I mean, what's the mental hurdle that people need to get, like, what's the thing that's, because I mean, to me, I mean, is it just that we're, I guess we're so deep into it. deep down that rabbit hole where like um it was okay so here's the example that i'm thinking of um you're familiar with spencer schiff peter schiff's son and he was he was big into bitcoin and then and then he seemed to have kind of been become disillusioned with it because he thought that bitcoin was no longer necessary because ai was going to um improve our lives so much that it was going to uh

basically make everything so cheap and, you know, there would be all this abundance. But the thing that he missed was that in a fiat world, the abundance, it gets pooled by those with the most power, right, as opposed to... It's literally stolen from us. Yeah. It's stolen from society. And by the way, we're in the U.S. and Canada, what gives us a, is the counterparty to our abundance is in Malawi, or Ghana. Because if you couldn't dig, if you couldn't dig

raw materials out of the ground like cobalt for $2 a day, our system doesn't work. So that inflation, that we think about inflation being wage deflation, it's just another level in all of these other countries. And essentially, we're strip mining those countries from a financial system that looks like we're helping them. And that's what Ben is doing kind of with Human Rights Foundation. That's what you see when you go to some of these other countries. And then you wonder, huh, if I was living in a dictatorship that was caused by that and I couldn't get out, I might put my family on a boat and try to get into Europe or the U.S. too that is taking advantage of these countries. And so this causes all over the world that is out the same thing.

And it's the simplest thing in the world. It's actually really simple. The free market, the natural state of the free market is deflation. Yeah. And the natural state. If you had something fixed in number, it fixed in units, society benefits, all of society benefits from that deflation. If you don't, you don't. You have people stealing money pretending you have a free market.

It's that simple. And so, but even when you look at, people pricing Bitcoin in their fiat currency, you can tell how far away from the truth they are, right? Because they're pricing the thing that is repricing everything else through the thing that's being manipulated. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's tough to get to that point, right? It's tough to get to the, you know, not valuing your Bitcoin in the measuring, the ever-changing measuring stick that we're used to, right?

nonetheless so i again i'm conscious of time i don't want to dwell on on my reason too much but again i just i'm super excited that uh there's going to be an opportunity not just for myself but for everybody to be able to educate everyone around the world and i think non-english speakers have been at a disadvantage in this this bitcoin revolution not anymore there we're we're coming and we're going to orange pill the world so uh with that uh we're going to do a rotation And actually, I'm going to, Gary, I'm going to toss it to you first to cue you up. And again, I'll ask the question. And you're coming from, you know, a different standpoint, I think from, well, maybe not necessarily,

but like a unique standpoint from a lot of the people that I have on the show typically, like you're coming from a little bit of a different world than a lot of us and being thrust into this Bitcoin space. So with that in mind, I'll ask you very simply, why are you bullish? What's exciting for you? Well, I haven't been thrust in it. I threw myself into this industry. I've been beating up bad guys my entire career. Okay, I've got to work for Exile Mobile.

I hated it. The reason that Jeff spoke to just now about, and this is what I am excited about, we have an 18-month window. Okay, these companies are inept at moving into opportunities. They don't think about opportunities and salvation the way we think about it. See, they're plugged into the system. They go to work every day. They do what their bosses are told you cannot show me one human being on the planet that

worked for a corporation that was fired for the deal they should have done, but didn't do. Should have done, but didn't do. The incentives are completely fucked up, okay? So I found myself in a life of, hey, look at that opportunity. Then it got, hey, here's a billion dollars, Gary. Go build a business in London. Go buy some stuff.

I'm like, buy it. It's all overpriced. But most people don't have the ethics that I have, quite frankly. And like, I look at ethics in a deal. Like, why would you buy an asset that's grossly overpriced just because four other of your competitors in the same country club you go to, play the same golf with, have the same bankers with and the same consultants there is no competition so we have 18 months to I think maybe two years to use the tool like see I'll jump on this tool tomorrow

morning too like but but the these big Exile mobiles they got to go to HR and ask for fucking permission okay these companies are run by HR they are totally woked out of their mind what I'm excited about is giving eight billion people freedom the eight billion people that everybody thinks I'm here for the money. I don't need the money. I'm here for the game, man. Disrupt the entire monopoly construct and let's have some freedom. Stop going to war. Put the government on at least 30 or 40 percent open source blockchain. Everybody gets to see the same. And let's see which banks offer true custodian services that are premier, like real wallet type services. I think that if we allow competition to occur in this space,

as Jeff said earlier, we can't even imagine what the world is going to look like. Like I think all you guys are underestimating what's going to happen. Because I don't think our minds can really understand it from any other prism than the analog age. And it's just going to be so different. So that's why I'm excited. I'm excited, by the way, at 37,47,000, 57,000, 67,000, 67,000. never had an asset like this on the planet. There's never been one.

Nobody's ever shown me one. So how could you not possible be excited? And everybody can buy $10 or $10 million worth of it right now. I'm curious about it. I'll chime in with my thoughts later, but maybe I'll toss it to, I don't know, Caribou, do you want to chime in on anything there, anything that stands out to you that you want to comment,

add question, whatever? Yeah, I've actually been listening to a lot of Jeff Booth these days. And he talks about the dishonest ledger, dishonest incentives. Honest ledger, honest incentives. And that has been like really plastered into my brain. And I think the beauty of Bitcoin, it's like this wonderful, elegant protocol that essentially takes the people who are most comfortable and are benefiting most from theft in the fiat system and punishes them the hardest.

they will be the last ones to actually adopt the honest ledger and they will make everyone who did it before them who was getting fucked by the dishonest ledger much wealthier and I just think that that is and no one actually has to do anything like there's no one pulling the strings no one orchestrating this like it's literally just this and and even something I heard the other day of someone said protocols don't die they have to be forgotten right and I think we have almost a trillion fiat dollar reasons, not to forget Bitcoin,

distributed evenly across the planet. So I don't think it's going to be forgotten. Therefore, it's not going anywhere. And it's just, yeah, it's just such a magical thing that doesn't actually require

regulatory, it doesn't require anyone's approval. Even, I think Jeff said it the other day on a podcast. Like, this isn't a negotiation. It's happening whether you like it or not. And you can either join the honest ledger

or you can be destroyed and obliterated the longer you claim on. to the dishonest one. So it's beautiful. I love that. Jeff, how about you? Yeah, no, and thanks, Karebovith. That's that's actually part of the reason why I can't understand all of the other blockchain, the nonsense and that happens there. And just kind of in confidence, Gary and I had a conversation about this two and two and a half weeks ago where I walked them through at a deeper level, why Bitcoin and why everything else. I do understand if you don't know that,

why you might gamble and why you might play this, if you don't know that at that level, why it's in that decentralization and security is really the only utility of the base level. You have to have that before you build everything else on top of it. So you see a whole bunch of people and all these other coins that also own Bitcoin. But most people that own Bitcoin primarily don't.

own anything else right and so it tells you something right it tells you something and one of the things it may tell you we saw nureole but robani rubini launched his own coin this how many how many names could you AI health whatever coin this this this week and so what what it tells you is the existing there's always been always throughout time If you could manipulate money, human beings would manipulate money. Why? It's really simple. Because you'd collect attacks on everybody else's work for doing nothing, for doing that.

So if you're at the top of the stack, you're stealing the productivity from the rest of humanity. And so I have no doubt lots of people are going to try to create coins. I have no doubt lots of governments are going to try to do this. I have no doubt all of this is going to happen because you have to expect. all of this to be able to try to kill Bitcoin from the powers that be. It's not going to be successful. And Bitcoin could care less about their attacks. It gets stronger, more decentralized, more secure every year.

And all of these things end up losing money in time. And that's why I don't play those stupid games, because I'm not going to pick up pennies in front of a steamroller. Right. And I, but if somebody else wants to gamble, great, great. But this is a way bigger deal, a way bigger deal than most people understand. And when you're on the, and then when you're on the front edge of what's coming on top of that ecosystem, you just go, good luck with all these other things.

Like, good luck. And there's a reason why I think as people settle into and understand Bitcoin only, there's a reason why Bitcoiners almost cringe when they hear some of the typical buzzwords that get thrown around in those other spaces, right? Like when, I don't know, even still now, when I hear crypto, I get that. Or, you know, when you hear like digital assets or things like that, or you hear, you know, or I mean, even the term blockchain, even though, even though there's the Bitcoin block. blockchain, it's just, it's been tossed around, especially like the past couple cycles,

it gets tossed around as like this, this magic thing that you know, we'll just slap a blockchain on it and then all of a sudden it's immutable. But like that's, that's really not how it works. There's a lot of things besides just the blockchain component of Bitcoin that make it an immutable ledger. And so I think that the crux of it is, is that we realize that the the fiat system is the elites can print money and the people that are closest to that benefit the most and the people that are furthest away lose the most so bitcoin came along to rectify that but then along with bitcoin people tried to replicate bitcoin and so we get this system where we get kind of three camps fiat is the elites can print money crypto is everyone can print money and

Bitcoin is no one can print money. And Fiat comes with its own list of problems. Crypto is Fiat on cocaine. And Bitcoin is the remedy for all of it. Because I think that human nature is such that nobody should be printing the thing, the communication layer for value. I think that should just be a measuring stick. and nobody should be able to inflate that.

So again. Ben, one just quick thing on that, one of the things in probably 1031 and some of the other Bitcoin-only companies would feel the same thing that we see in ego death. There isn't a really great person building on Bitcoin that would take money from a crypto company. Yeah.

They wouldn't take, no matter what, even at a higher valuation, they just wouldn't take it. So when you actually understand what that's looking like and all of these innovators moving on to this and all of what's happening, it's really cleansing. Like it's really cleansing.

But you can, I get why people are confused. I get because they haven't done the work at the first principles level. And so you hear all of these other scams that people get rich and VCs marketing them and then selling them on to unsuspecting retail. And you can see a huge marketing engine and all of the promoters and everything else in it that is driving. Why? To be able to obfuscate the truth, to be able to make more money on the backs of people

who don't know. And so that's one of the things I think that when people say Bitcoin Maxi, like it's a bad word. Yeah. Call me that all day long because I think it says integrity in first principles. Before we do a rotation, Gary, I want to ask you a question as you've been kind of diving into the space. And it kind of seems like you've, you know, obviously if you got on a call with Jeff, then you're getting down the rabbit hole there. But I'm curious, like, as you dove into the space, what things did you hear? Or did you hear things initially from a variety of different people that you interacted with that, you know, sounded great initially? But then as you dove in, you kind of came to realize that they didn't quite ring true or maybe came off as deceptive or like what kind of set you down the Bitcoin rabbit hole as opposed to the crypto rabbit hole?

Oh, sorry, you're probably because I'm a grown man. and I'm not interested in buying a Volkswagen. I actually know what value looks like. I think that we have become a world of knowing the price of everything and expecting everything cheap and really having zero ideas to value. I think, look, I don't think it's as binary, even as Jeff says. I think there's a gross education problem that we're fighting against. We are fighting against people that cannot do compound interest.

So for, you know, the part that puts me off, look, look, I could have been here in 2018 and big size and relevant. But the circus was going on. I mean, a total carnival, okay? So I have done this now. this is my fifth or sixth industry and you know that I'll spend probably the rest of my life in and I do it the same way I go meet everyone in the space the ding-dongs the middle dongs and then the guys right the guys that actually get it right and guess what guys that makes a market yeah you got to have a marketplace that has a whole spectrum of players you're going to have I hope we have some buyer some sellers in Bitcoin Because if we don't have any sellers, if we have a total, this is my greatest concern, if we have a hoarding community, I think it's going to break the system, man. I don't think so. Well, maybe not.

It's going to be pretty violent, though, okay? I mean, this is what scares me and we'll scare the people from the Goldman of the world. I can get in, but I can't get out. getting out is going to be important to some people that aren't doing this is a 30-year legacy asset to give to their children, which is what I'm doing. And I, you know, what, three weeks ago, we start talking about the ETF. It bounces off 27, pops up to 32. And I'm hearing people freak out about gamma squeezes and, you know, options desk going out

of business. Like, it's cool. That is going to happen. But like on the first day of a 15% run, that's scary to me. So it's these kind of things. The whole FTX thing, everybody should write a letter to the SEC and say, shame, shame, shame on you. Spending time fucking with me over 100 grand, man.

Bring me a real fine, okay? Bring me a real fine of somebody that did something and then make him stop doing it. The problem is 15 years people paying a billion dollar fines to the DOJ and then they just keep on smoking. along. Like nothing happened. I remember when I was growing up, you get DOJ, you're out of business. Nobody's going to participate with you. So, look,

I would never be confused about buying Dogecoin and comparing it to Bitcoin. That doesn't mean that I think that no one on the planet has the right to place a bet on a pony or on a 21

table in Vegas or on some of this stupid token stuff. Where I find it bad, though, is that the regulator hasn't done his job and said, hey, this is dodgy. There is no reserves here. This is worse than buying a lottery ticket. That's what we need from the regulators, real clarity, because I think you have a grossly, grossly miseducated society globally on money and energy and most everything else. If you don't understand money and energy, you pretty much in economics, you don't understand any basics. So that to me is, and I came through this as a libertarian, as a poor kid that grew up in Louisiana that does not like gorillas.

I don't like big bad guys that cheat. I think playing fair, like just because you got three MBAs shouldn't allow you to break the rules and, you know, use your. balance sheet against smaller players. So I like the whole open access. Let's all play on our merits and let's get rewarded for those who made really good decisions. And if somebody goes bankrupt buying some dumb coin, like, sorry, man. Sorry for you, but it won't be me. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't play with some of that stuff because I actually learn by playing with things.

Right. But, you know, I do. I learned I was a crude-all trader. I traded crude for a period of time, not because I was a crude-all trader. I was an energy trader. I needed to learn a little bit about crude. I knew for sure I would never be a crude trader. So that's just my view.

I don't think there's anything unexciting about this space. And I think I align most with you on the, you know, people should be able to make their own decisions and more importantly learn their own lessons. I think that's it's when you dictate what people should do, then they learn nothing. When you touch the stove yourself, then you tend not to do that again. I mean, there's a handful of people in the quote unquote crypto space that have solidly put their hand on the burner and sat at there for a few years. But, you know, it's, I guess they'll eventually realize it's hot.

But nonetheless, I think Bitcoin maximalism is it's not prescriptive, it's descriptive. It's it describes our, you know, our view of what actually has value. And people are simply trying to communicate like, hey, heads up, all this other stuff is bullshit. And you should be aware of it. Like, I would never stop. I would never forcefully stop somebody from buying a shit coin. but I have no problem telling them it's a shit coin as they do it

so nonetheless I don't want to dwell too much here anymore I want to do another rotation and I want to toss it to Caribou and I'm going to cue you up man why are you bullish? Take it away I am bullish on Bitcoiner

and I won't take too long because I mainly want to hear from Jeff and to find out when I can get Jeff GPT for the marginal cost of a lot of code that'll be great But lately I've been having a lot more conversations with Bitcoiners as I have a sort of less Fiat world chores and business to do that kind of take a little bit of time off as I work towards thinking of what does a Bitcoin consulting firm look like in the future.

And I managed to get plugged into a telegram group of Bitcoin consultants. There was an OG Bitcoiner who's been doing Bitcoin consulting for like, I think like five years out of big scale. Basically said I have too much work to handle. I want to be part of a network of other consultants. so that I can cross-refer. And we need to figure out how we can actually build a web of trust in a decentralized way, which is not, you know, an easy task.

His name is Ben DeWal. Shout out to Ben. And so plugged into a telegram group, there's 100 people from around the world that are in their group now. And we basically just get to have big brain conversations about what does being a Bitcoin consultant mean? What is that work? How do we earn that from actually helping people navigate the Bitcoin journey?

and just the level of intelligence and motivation and humbleness amongst these like insanely smart people is what has me most bullish because I and part of me can't help feel like this you know extended bear period has and extend and accelerating financial pain has forged just maybe the best generation of educators we've ever had in Bitcoin and not just educators for individuals doing self-custies but like educating. that are going to talk to the small business on the corner about how to integrate Bitcoin, who are going to talk to Honda about how to integrate Bitcoin. And it's funny how you started out talking about chargebacks. One of the side conversation is how can we get together and just shoot ideas around about how we could literally send an open letter to Shopify and say, hey, if you plug to Bitcoin into your 1.75 million merchants, not only would that be good for your merchants and good for you if you're the LSP taking 0.5% of lightning payments instead of Visa and

MasterCard's 2.95%. But how about the 1.4 billion people in the world that don't have a bank account or a credit card that could use Shopify with whatever needed to touch a bank? That's some bullish shit right there. And the idea that Shopify could potentially have a team that just does this and makes its own term key that you literally press a button as a merchant, you have a Bitcoin wallet and you can start accepting Bitcoin payments. And just the idea that a farmer in Ethiopia that doesn't have a bank account, will never have a bank account because they live in the village, could literally sell their coffee to a coffee shop in Vancouver on Shopify with Bitcoin. And they could protect themselves from the debasement of their currency. And they could engage with the whole global internet economy in a way that they've never been able to before.

So I'm bullish on just the caliber of people I'm talking to these days and the potential for, you know, just a whole new cohort of a different kind of Bitcoin educator to. to fill every niche and need that we're going to have, not just individuals with self-custody, but also just all of the businesses, corporations, family offices, organizations, churches, nonprofits, like all of these people are eventually going to need to plug in to the honest ledger. And it's really cool being around people who are talking at it at a level I've never heard before. So that's why I'm bullish.

I love that. I love it. It's like anytime I hear that there's, there's battalions of Bitcoiners like all ranking up ready to go out into the world and just educate like nothing else that makes me so happy. And you're so right that there's so many different niches that are, you know, you're going to have to specialize in all of these different things because everybody needs, Bitcoin is many things to many people.

And depending on who you're talking to, you're going to have to explain in entirely different ways and show them entirely different tools. And so I don't know what you just said makes me happy. And Ben DeWall is awesome too. He's a great dude. So I'm glad to hear that. And one more thing to add, I don't know of any companies that refuse to develop an internet strategy

that are still around today. And I don't think there's going to be any companies that didn't develop a Bitcoin strategy that are going to be around in a decade. So it actually is, it's like a one-way street. It cannot be stopped. It can be slowed. It can be, you know, there could be many attacks that will slow this, but the inevitability is that the world, the global information network is not going to let truth be trapped.

It might be harder to find in some areas. And I think if every opportunity was approached by a bitcorner and treated as sacred instead of, and protected these people from the shit corner read that's inevitably going to tempt them, the more bit corners that are out there that are Bitcoin only and understand it from like a first principles level and understand how to meet people where they are. I think it's the hardest thing. It's like if you want to meet people where they are, you have to understand what questions to ask to determine where they are. And that is like the art of, I think, orange filling is being able to speak to the person you're talking to at their level instead of the level you're at because that's a, that's an art, I think, not just like a skisible. kill our ability. You can have all the knowledge of Bitcoin in the world, but if you can't speak to

someone where they are and help them take the next step of a thousand steps, they might get lost. They might get frustrated. And so it's cool to just hear conversations about people talking about how do we get better at meeting people where they are and creating just a database of awesome resources so that every single step someone might take. There's a place to send them for them to do the work and take responsibility and really explaining that the only way to do it is to ownership and responsibility but they're still going to need there's still going to be a need for guides to help people navigate that journey and avoid the the nonsense yeah 100% Jeff I'm curious to get your thoughts and then we'll go to carry Gary I just I love

care about what you what you just said I just say it makes me so happy that you're finding your set spot in this that's going to create a whole bunch of value for yourself while you create value for everyone else I just loved everything you said there because when And as I've moved, and you know this, Ben knows this, but I did the same thing when I moved way more of my time into Bitcoin. And that's part of the reason why building the venture fund, because I wanted to spend it around the people. I wanted to spend it around it, building the world I wanted to see. And as you spend more time there, you just see, when I compare this to the internet, and so I was early on the internet, I understood what was going on. And what was happening then very similar that some of the smartest people in the world were moving into this new domain because they knew they could break down former monopolies and create new incredible companies and such.

So it was wildly exciting. And I will tell you this, this feels like 10 times more exciting. The smartest people I know are in this space. but not just the smartest, the ones with the most integrity, the ones that it, and it's spreading out more and more. You just can't help but be around it.

As you're in it more and more, you just want to spend all your time there. So when I hear you describing that, and then how much value I can just imagine that you can help other people create, create value for yourself along the way. I just couldn't be more happy for you. P.S. I, Hurley,

actually and Toby, but Harley is a good friend of mine who runs Shopify. I know most of the management team there. And they're going to get there eventually, but everyone's going to get there eventually. Fantastic. Gary, I'll let you dive in. Yeah, listen, I love what Caraboo said. I think the ability to meet the other player instead instead of making him come to you at your level of understanding is really, really valuable. Like for me, I don't really

care about Bitcoin. I really care about what we're doing right here. We are communicating and we will hopefully honestly. And I think that's what brings a planet together. No amount of Bitcoin could replicate me having a one-on-one with someone or sharing, like connecting with another human being. I'm not going to connect with a human being if I actually have requirements on that human being to come to me. I need to like, you know, move to them and speak to them in a language they can understand. I just think it was really, really beautiful what Caribou is saying and like I think also the other opportunity here is to come put a million people to work. Okay, millions of people

can literally get a job. I bet Caribou could hire some people right now, it doesn't even require an education. Okay, this is unheard of. A 12-year-old, if it was legal, could come in an 18-year-old, a 24-year-old, a 60-year-old person that came out of GE, doesn't want to work there anymore. All they've got to do is pick up some materials and start reading and learning. So I think it's, look, I think it's the 21st century solution to a lot of problems that we have. And there'll be a lot of scams going on. There's always, always is but we're so early in this deal and I don't think any of us can really envisage where it's going I actually like that it's taking time I think the time is and is actually good for us

we should slow down you don't consume a whole planet by sitting down at lunch and trying to eat it so you know this is going to be a 10-year journey it's going to be awesome yeah it's uh It's happening quickly, but it's funny when you're in the thick of it, it can seem to go by so slowly at the same time, too, at least for me. But nonetheless, can I just remind everyone, okay? It took Visa MasterCard, 52 years to get everybody with a credit card. Okay. And you know what they had to do? They had to offer that charge back insurance for adoption.

That's what that was put in place for, to. adopt people from moving from checks to plastic, I'm pretty much sure that adoption has occurred. The problem is they never changed the rules. Adoptions occurred. Now you've got to have a marketplace that's equal and fair for both parties. It can't be, oh, well, the merchant's going to take all the heat, right? The reason we have all these problems is in the future, there's not going to be 50 million merchants with different T's and Cs. How heinous is that?

Consent, cookie farms, all different, right? This is literally a joke to humanity that they have to sign agreements that no one is actually honoring as a stable contract, which is like that's the first rule of law, right? Like contract law. So the whole thing is up for grabs. I just think it's going to take a little while. All right. With that, we're going to do our final rotation here. I'm going to toss it down to Jeff.

And same question everybody gets. And I'm curious as ever to hear, why are you bullish, my friend? Do you mean besides the fact that all prices in my world went down by 42% in the last 30 days? Yeah. So what I'm seeing, so when I'm getting to spend time with the entrepreneurs, that are building this and and i know ben you know a bunch of them too and building kind of the new use cases and things that people don't even understand that are coming and you're at the front edge of that um so ellen markets is an example um i think they did 20 million in

in top line in and in august 54 million and um in september 140 million in in in October um These are real companies producing real Bitcoin only returns, growing at a crazy rate. So literally our whole portfolio, everything in it is hitting records and growing really fast by providing value to others. FETI is soft launching publicly very soon. what's been happening from their private tests and everything else. What actually how fast that can change the world, how fast that can bring this to way more people. And it won't be immediate,

but it'll emerge. And what it gives people is a whole other layer of, on top of this to be able to spread adoption. They have so many people waiting to take that up. and I've been playing with it. I cannot wait until it comes out. Gary, you talked about, we're invested in a company, Breeze.

It's exploding. And through the way that they do non-custodial wallets, a couple things emerge out of the non-custodial wallets, you could essentially get return from your Bitcoin while holding your keys by sharing in the fee generation. by producing liquidity. So you have an entirely new risk-free rate of return on the new ecosystem

that advances the ecosystem by creating that. They can actually on all their vendors. And the vendors now don't have to charge anything, no fees, no two and a half five for Visa, no any drop their cost to their users. But here's the even better thing. Breeze could actually share the revenue that they're generating with. So instead of taking a vision like that where you have to pay,

Breeze can share the revenue with you. Right. And so you can make revenue. So it turns into a win-win-win that is entirely different. It breaks people's brains because the models are so different than the models that lived there before. But they're unstoppable because the incentives drive. drive there. And so when I'm at the front edge of this, working with some of the most impressive entrepreneurs I've ever seen, building the most exciting things that are having

real world applications and growing really fast, and then when I see some, what people are saying about Bitcoin or just talking about the asset layer and missing this whole thing, what's coming, or misunderstanding what, say, BVM, it could do. And all of the different, all of the different things, all of the different applications, this is a new peer-to-peer Internet that's not negotiating with anybody. And so if you want to start playing in it, you're going to create a whole bunch of value

or there's going to be a massive explosion of value that's coming into it. But I actually keep that I get the privilege to work with, entrepreneurs in doing what they're doing. Yeah. Wow. I'm first of all, can I say I'm really glad you brought up the FETI app because it's super cool.

So they used it in Prague as the as the event, the official event app. And again, like a lot of people that are watching probably haven't gotten their hands on it or have been able to test anything. But effectively, they used it as the conference app for BTC Prague. And there were thousands of people there. And effectively, you could create a little on this app. It was automatically, like, just as a test, they funded it with, I can't remember how many stats, but X number of SATs.

And then they had applications built within the app. So, like, there was an AI machine in their. there and you could query it and to pay for the computational output, you would pay like one sat or two sats or something like that, like fractions of a pen to pay for like the minimal amount of computation that you were using. You could send peer to peer to anybody that was in that fetament, that group of participants at the conference entirely privately. And then if you wanted to, you could withdraw to a lightning wallet to your own custody at the end of the conference. And then they also did a cool thing where any funds that were left over at the end of the

conference got donated to a charity that they had set up. But like just the the user interface of the FETI app is way beyond what I expected it to be. And that you can bake in like, oh, you can go and you can get you can go and get. You can go and get. gift cards. You could put like bit refill and stuff like that in there. You can do a whole bunch of different stuff. But FETI, I think a lot of people don't realize, like, even what it is. I still am confused in terms of like, I understand like the concept of what a fetament is. And a lot of people, like, that's a very new thing. So no wonder that a lot of people don't get it. But like the app itself, it's almost like you need to, you need to see what it is and try it to get what you're

getting out of it. And when you realize that all of this suddenly becomes like near perfect privacy, zero fee, and then send out to lightning, send in with like it's, it's things that are kind of possible with it are kind of mind bending. I think it could, I think it could be like an iPhone moment for this space. It's so different. It's so it's the interface is so different than we experienced before. And what that allows, especially for privacy and everything there and, and, and, and yeah, think of my own family federation, right? It would be really powerful.

And everything is behind the firewall of that family federation. But just to scale that to, um, where, we're nobody, nobody can say, it's a private conversation. It's not in some server farm. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. The whole sovereign computing.

movement as well as like it's baked in there right because like you're saying you can have private like encrypted messages and everything baked into the it's it's crazy uh nick i'm curious have you seen anything about i know we're kind of going down to like a fetti thing here but have you like are you privy to no you know it's brand new and like i'm sure i'm sure excited now yeah i'm sure gary you you're you're like this would be something brand new on your radar i imagine is that correct fetti perfidiments uh yeah that look there's so much going on uh it's hard to keep up with all i think that's the problem so yeah um but i we're going to have hundreds

if not thousands of ideas i don't even think we'll notice this world in three or four years like there's going to be a totally different world like you cannot guarantee to me that the wallet makers today are going to be the wallet makers of the future if it follows the past the guy that invents the ideas may not be the winner. So I just think, and I don't think it's going to be legacy, okay? Legacy is going to try and they're going to waste billions of dollars. The intellectual capital is flowing out of legacy. It's coming into entrepreneurs, fresh minds, laboratories, what Caribou is doing, people

that are taking risk. We all look at and go, there's no risk here. There's zero risk here, okay? What's risky is hanging on to the old world thinking that people are going to buy automobiles, stick them in a garage 96% of time. And that's a good use of energy. So the only way we get to a really, really efficient world is if we digitize. And the only way you can digitize is if you have money and a currency that doesn't change on a regular basis depending on the state of the government. So it's pretty simple to me.

I mean, we only have history to look at. It's not like we're making up something that hasn't happened for 7,000 years. It should be an easy story to explain. The nice thing about what you said, too, where you're like the wallet makers of today may not be the ones of tomorrow, the nice thing about that is Bitcoin, like the network itself is agnostic to that, right? So like you can, you know, you can take your wealth and you can migrate in, in, you know, a minute and be on the latest and greatest. And it doesn't matter. And that level of competition in that realm is what makes it so exciting. And we're seeing a similar thing now with social media where there's, and you may not be privy to it yet, but there's something called Noster, which is, it's kind of like if, like,

say you had a Facebook profile and all your friends were over there and then all of a sudden they were all on the next latest and greatest thing and the normal thing is oh god I got to make another profile and then I got to link up with everybody and blah blah with Noster the network is your connections and the interface is agnostic so it would be like oh I'm on Facebook now everybody's on uh X or everybody's on TikTok and you just go to that platform and you say, this is my profile, and it already exists, and all your connections are already there, you're already connected. It's completely agnostic. And so then if one platform sucks, you just leave it, you go to the next one. You're still with all your friends. And anybody

that sticks around on the old platform can still talk to you. Anybody that's already migrated can still talk to you. So it's just one, one like easy communication layer. Bitcoin, it's the similar or principles to Bitcoin where it doesn't matter what your interface is. It matters your connections and how you can communicate with each other. And that's the excitement of what I think is happening here. It's super cool. And you get that. The best experience wins. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, okay, so gentlemen, what I want to do here as we begin to round out is at the end of every show, I'd like to just do a quick round of any final thoughts, anything you'd like to get off your chest, maybe like or just reiterate from the show, from the conversation.

And then secondly, if you have a recommendation, and what I mean by recommendation, it could be, you know, maybe a book you read, maybe a video you saw, a podcast you listened to, an app you liked, a device you liked, or it could be just like a piece of life advice that you think people could go away with and benefit in the context of kind of where we're at and where you think we're going. So, you know, any final thoughts and any recommendation you may have. I'll start it so off to you have a second to stew. But I think we're kind of hitting, again, like, and it's, again, it's poetic that Jeff is on. It's, it's, I, I really am feeling that, that deflationary, like rapid acceleration of technology these past few weeks. And so I'm, I'm not just on the Bitcoin front, but like on everything tangential to it.

And so I get the sense that I'm going to be feeling more and more of that as to. time goes on and it's not going to slow down. So I'm kind of bracing myself for that. So I guess that's kind of where I'm at right now. And I'm enjoying it. But I'm also, I feel like I'm going to have to scramble to keep up. And I'm wondering how I'm going to navigate that. But we shall see. And then in terms of recommendations, you know what I what I'm going to do from my recommendation, Gary, I'm going to give you a hot tip on a vernacular tip for you that Bitcoiners will very much appreciate. So next time when you're in like a spaces or you're on a show or something, Bitcoiners will love this if you replace the term blockchain with the time chain. So back in the original white paper and all the writings of Satoshi, actually he never used the

term blockchain and blockchain came about kind of after bitcoin as like all of the other things were coming about but Satoshi did use the term time chain in in and around the concept that this chain of blocks was like a mechanism to make sure that you you basically time-stabbed things in order and you know where the money lies at each point in time and so if you start using the term time chain instead of blockchain, then a lot of Bitcoiners will, you'll raise a few eyebrows and they'll probably super appreciate it. So I would never tell anybody what to say, but it's a cool term that Bitcoiners have taken a liking to. So there's my, and to everybody in the chat too, I think there's some time cheners in there that

appreciate that. But nonetheless, those are my final thoughts. Gary L tossed it to you first. Any final thoughts you have and any recommendations you may have for people? Yeah, thank you, one, thank you for this. Tonight's been been enjoyable. I would encourage everybody to read a book that I found to be the most important book that I've ever read in my life. It has nothing to do with the title.

And I think it actually brings a lot of meaning to this particular conversation, the way we have vernacular with other people, how we're open, how we're not stuff. and stuff down people's throats that maybe we acknowledge people who put 40 or 50 million dollars invested in a whole new industry they didn't know anything about their work and their ass off in the industry maybe don't call people tradfi when you don't even know anything about them like all i've been doing is competing with tradfi so you guys should love me um it's for like the book for me it's the greatest salesman in the world it's a book called by augmandino

It is a really beautiful book about value, human value. See, I think a human value is being deflated. I don't care about the dollars because I can always make dollars. It's never been a problem for me. No recession, no depression. Dude, I'm fine. I'm in a, I'll dig a ditch and make money. But, you know, this future of freedom and openness and democracy, all of this.

And if I'm using the wrong terms, cool. But we need our government. on some type of open ledger. Call it a time chain, call it a blockchain. I don't really care what we call it. These are made up words. It's going to be spread different in Spanish. You just showed me, right?

So like I still say that we, by us collaborating and us accepting each other a little bit more openly, is this guy in here or is he trying to hurt? I mean, I've been called the CIA here, man. I'm on an accounting firm. I now work for the IRS. I mean, it's just, it's a little childish. And maybe it's childish because I never knew people were saying this behind my back in the energy space or the payments industry.

Maybe they've always said this. Look, the greatest sales in the world. And the other one is a little bit like what Jeff was saying, dude, I love the people. Okay, the people, the age of the people, their youth, their thirst for, and vision. for a beautiful future. Like, that's an awesome, awesome thing when millions of people can do this together. And so I would just say that is far more senior than whether I have an investment in U.S. dollars. Like, to me, that is just so senior of being able to a good human.

I think Jeff Booth is a good human being. I don't know that for sure, but I think he is. I think Caraboo is. he seems to be a nice person, and you seem to be a nice person, Ben. There you go. We'll know as time goes on and things get difficult, but we are fighting a legacy, almost DNA imprint that's been around for thousand years, man. There have been millions, if not billions of people kill.

They've justified all this. We're still justifying this. Okay, our tax dollars are killing people right now. So that is a beautiful thing, dude, if we can get off that shit. Okay, I'm tired of paying my tax. I don't mind paying taxes. I really mind paying taxes when Warren, that idiot Warren's money doing insider trading. Okay, I just did a little interview with teen crypto, that missed teen crypto.

I said, sweetie, going to politics tomorrow morning. You should walk into politics tomorrow morning. You'll make more money in politics. politics. So, look, I'm really, really excited. I have been doing this my whole life. I wish I was your age. Okay. I wish I was the youngest guy here because I'm not only going to make a shitload of money, which I already have, but I am going to actually be in something really, really, really, really relevant. I think we are making history and that does not come along often. We're Joe domestic, Gary Cardone and Caribou and VT Sessions Ben can make and be a little tiny

grain of history that actually move the needle. So that, how can you not be excited? Greatest salesmen in the world, it really, it really helped me as a human being. Just look at value. So thanks. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you for that. I'm going to go down to Caraboo next. Final thoughts, recommendations. Go ahead, man. Yeah. This is the advice I give to myself every day. Stack health, stack sats by just slightly better decisions each day, not all than a day. Have kids. And focus. It's like, I think something Jeff said recently in a podcast was the energy you give to a system is what continues to energize life into it.

So if you give your energy to the honest ledger, you're choosing to block out the noise of the dishonest. ledger which is going to spin up and accelerate. And so spend more time in the future. Spend more time building a life on the honest ledger. It's made my life significantly better. And right now I'm reading Crypto Sovereignty by Eric Kasson. Kayson. Yeah, it's very powerful.

It's very, it's a lot to chew on, but it's awesome. Get Jeff GPT. And shameless plug, finny21.com is the consulting. firm that I'm working to build, health and Bitcoin. That's it, nothing else. And thanks for having me on, Ben. And thanks Gary and Jeff for all the wisdom. Thank you, buddy. I appreciate it. And Jeff, we'll toss to you last. Final thoughts, recommendations. Go ahead. Caraboo just said one of the ones that I think about a lot. I think about it in my own life and people that I know, when you know what's going on, you also know that one system is going to get way worse.

And for a lot of people in the world, they're going to be stuck into it. And they're actually going to give it more energy and think that their life is going to get better by giving it more energy, chasing it, yelling at the regulation or Warren or whatever. And if you just thought about how many utiles of energy I have a day, and where do I want them to go, you might change your mind of where you spend your time. And spending your time there literally changes the world. We are all connected. Something I might say might touch somebody else,

might touch somebody else. Three people later, that person might touch 10 million people because of it. Everything we do in life is connected to everything else. And so when you actually take it like that, I just make your time count. Make your time count not spending what you don't want to do. Spend it with people that you want to do, and you'll see that expand. And so that's probably the words of advice.

A book I just read The Maniac, a story of John Von Neumann. Really cool story. Really great. Awesome. I love it. Jeff, there's one recommendation in the chat. somebody said

Jeff, we need another book Post Orange Pilled But my recommendation is Train your GPT And then have it be more of a motivational How to navigate The changing world

As we move into hyper-Bitcoinization Awesome Awesome Okay, so gentlemen I want to thank Thank each and all, every one of you for being here this evening. Thank you so much for your time. I really do appreciate it. I enjoyed the conversation. And I hope you guys did too. And have a great weekend. I'll talk to you guys. Thanks, Ben. Great seeing you guys.

All right. Everybody, thank you so much for joining in. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you had fun. Of course, all these gentlemen, their Twitter profiles are in the show notes if you want to check them out. find out what they're doing from there. Of course, they mention a bunch of things you can check out in as well. Please do hit that like button. Yellow, I saw you in the chat. And yes, I saw that. Anyways, thank you guys for being here.

Hit that like button just below the screen. Of course, give this a share on whatever socials you happen to be on, whether it be Noster or Twitter or all the other things. And, of course, subscribe if you're not already. my goal for the next year is to hit that 100K mark. So if you help me do that, it will be a massive, massive help. I'm going to be super excited when that day comes. Will it happen before Yellow finishes?

Don't stop believing. Will it happen before that 100K mark where he finally gets a break? I don't know. Yellow, what do you think? 100K, subscribers or price first? Are you still going to be doing that show after I, hit 100K subscribers. We'll see. We'll see.

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It will take you to a spot. where you can book me for one-on-one sessions, super easy to do. If you're listening to this on the pod afterwards, and you don't have a QR code to scan, just go to BTCSessions.ca. Anyways, with that, I am out. You guys have yourselves a wonderful day or evening,

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