BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Jordan Bush, Lana Miles, David Zell ep336

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

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What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. Got a killer panel today. Very excited to have everybody here to share the Friday, share the weekend. Welcome to everybody in the chat. Shout out to number one fan on the show, David Wong. He's here every week.

He hates Bitcoin, but wants to keep coming back and tell us how wrong we are. So, David, thank you. Never change. Keep coming. We're going to kick this one off. There's going to be a lot of fun. Very much looking forward to this. Of course, this is live.

Anything can happen. So before we get started, I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Fuck it. Do it live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The thing sucks. Yeah. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share, all those things, they really help a ton in getting this content in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your. Daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now.

This is timechain stats.com. We're sitting at $27,903 per coin. A single US dollar will pick you up 3,584 sats. In terms of fees, you're looking at 29 sats per byte for next block. If you're willing to wait a little bit, 11 stats per byte should do you. But of course, use RBF, lightning, whatever you need to do. And in terms of Bitcoin already mined 92.091% of them, that means that there are 19.39 million Bitcoin mined and only 1.66 million Bitcoin to go. Shout out to sponsors of the show, hottlehoddle.com.

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And one of my favorite things about it, also non-KYC, you don't have to give up your personal information to have it sitting in a database and you still have the comfort of knowing the people that deserve your sets are going to get them. So yeah, check them out, nunchuk.io and check out the Honeybadger plan if you're so inclined. And finally, last shout out of the day, start nine labs, your sovereign computing solution. I love these guys. I've done a full video on how to set up your own node, your full Bitcoin stack, Bitcoin Core, Lightning, mempool.

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The Embassy Pro is for those that need something a little bit beefier. You want to host your life on that thing. So check them out. Links are down below. And you can also check out my tutorial to get you started. But with that, I'm going to stop ranting here. I'm going to get in my guess. So we're going to welcome to the stage.

Jordan, Lana, and David. Welcome all. Thank you so much for being here on a sharing the Friday with me. I think some some quick intros are in order so that everybody can get acquainted. But I'll toss it to Jordan first. Dude, can you let people know who you are, what you do? And also welcome back to the show, man. Yeah, man, it's great to be back.

My name is Jordan Bush. I was one of the, as far as Bitcoin's concerned, I was one of the authors of thank God for Bitcoin. And then last year helped have found. Thank God for Bitcoin Media. So TGFB Media. And so, yeah, so basically we just create resources, primarily for the broader Christian world churches, nonprofits,

you know, anybody along those lines to understand what Bitcoin is and why it matters for all the different ways that, all the different places and people that the Christian church is ministering to all over the world. Awesome. That's fantastic, man. I'm glad to have you. And also happy Easter weekend then. Thank you.

Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, we won't spoil the way on bullish, but yeah, I appreciate it. Awesome, awesome. Well, welcome to the show, man. Glad to have you. David, do we have you? Do we have you in tow? We do.

Awesome. Welcome, man. Give yourself an intro. Hey, guys. I'm David Zell. I'm an advisor to Bitcoin Magazine and the co-founder of the Bitcoin Policy Institute, a think tank advancing the worldview that Bitcoin benefits. American interests in Washington, D.C.

You've been busy, man. You've been very busy. I remember, I think we first met in person. Was it a couple years ago at the Bitcoin conference in Miami? Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah. You've been, you've definitely made massive strides in delving deeply into everything, Bitcoin. And yeah, congrats on your.

your burgeoning career. It looks, it looks very promising and it looks like you've been doing a ton. So I'm excited to chat today. So welcome, man. And thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no worries. No worries. And let's toss down the line. And Lana, welcome to the show. Can you give yourself an intro? Sure. Yeah. Hi. Thanks for having me. So Lana Miles, I head up marketing for Bitcoin magazine as well as the Bitcoin conference. The conference you guys just mentioned in Miami, May 18th through 20th. it's only right around the corner. So as you can imagine, we're just, I would laundry list all of the things that I've

currently been working on. But it's a long one. We're getting ready for a big one. Yeah, you definitely have your work cut out for you. I can only imagine the amount of things that have to be dealt with to make that scale of an event come to fruition. Yeah, I mean, it's a heavy, heavy as the head that holds the crown. We're the world's largest Bitcoin conference.

And we're feeling that right now. But I mean, we're all super bullish. I'm super bullish. I actually had my interview for this job at Bitcoin 2020. So I got to see it as just a club joining the crowd. And then I got to see it. I'm just now getting to see it from the back end. And it's a pretty cool juxtaposition to say the least.

Yeah, I can imagine. Wow. All right. Well, welcome and welcome to everybody on the show. This is going to be a good one. Very excited. And also welcome to everybody in the chat. keep those messages coming.

We will start bringing them up and showing them on the screen as they're relevant to the conversation at hand. But for those unfamiliar, this show is, why are we bullish? Very simple concept to it. Each one of us comes with a reason why we're bullish, something that is exciting, top of mind in and around Bitcoin.

And we each get to talk about what we're excited about. So the flow of the show is very simple. Number one, somebody's going to drop a reason why they're bullish. So chance to rant and inform us what they're excited about. Number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason, discuss questions, whatever we want to do there. And then finally, number three, we're going to rotate to the next person until we each

get a turn. So reason, riff, rotate, simple as it can be. So I'm going to get us started this week. I've been chatting about this all week, but I feel like I need to cap it off with, why are we bullish? I can't not be bullish about it this week if you were on. on Cafe Bitcoin or a couple of the Bitcoin spaces earlier in the week. I was chatting about this, but I, much to the surprise of many people, I suppose,

given that I've basically been making tutorials for years in and around Bitcoin. This past couple of weeks was my first time diving into Bitcoin mining. I had never mined Bitcoin before, you know, basically late March of this year. And it was just a huge blind spot to me. And it's something that I've wanted to learn about and try for a long time. I think for some odd reason, I can't quite place it, but I was always a little intimidated. And so the reason I'm bullish this week is because I believe that mining, in particular, learning about mining and mining from home is indeed excessive.

to your average person. And nobody needs to be afraid if they just want to dive in and learn a little bit and mine on a small scale just to be part of the network and understand it better and perhaps get a couple benefits out of it as well. Now, the way in which I dove into Bitcoin mining these past couple weeks was in and around a guide that was created by Rick over at Crypto Cloaks. anybody familiar with crypto cloaks, they do a ton of different 3D printed peripherals for Bitcoin, whether it be cases for your hardware wallets or awesome pieces of art for your home or node cases and enclosures.

And now enclosures for your miners so that you can create an at-home space heater out of an old miner that many would consider to be beyond its life cycle, now reinvigorated for different purposes. And so effectively what I did is I went through this guide that Rick put together that basically showed how to swap out the fans and tweak the settings on your miner so that it's not as loud so that it still creates heat to warm a room in your home and so that you're still mining Bitcoin and getting reimbursed for part of the electricity that you're using. And so in my instance, this is useful in two senses. Number one, it's a great, cheap learning tool.

You don't need to go out and buy a more expensive mining rig for a couple thousand dollars to start learning about mining. You can find a used S9 for a hundred bucks, a hundred and fifty bucks maybe. And then with all of the additional things that I purchased to kind of retrofit it and turn it into a space heater, I'd say all in, I was maybe looking at about 300 bucks. So as a learning tool and something I will continue to use in my home during the cold months and I'm in Canada, so there's a lot of those. This is fantastic for me.

And just to kind of basically encapsulate my experience. So I had never, again, had never mind and then also had never really understood the internal of a miner or an ASIC. And so effectively what you've got, you've got kind of the main unit. You've got a board on top, like a computer board, a circuit board on top. That's the controller board

that basically controls everything that's going on with the miner and has the operating system on it and all of that. And then you've got the main unit and there's three boards inside of the S-9 that are filled with their mining chips and that's where all the heat tends to be.

And then you've got a fan on either end to blow air through the unit and cool off all those chips. And then you've got a second little encapsulated piece. And that's the power supply unit. And so there's a little fan in there. And that's where all the power comes in and is mitigated and sent out to the other chips in the larger unit. And so the process for me was effectively get replacement fans on Amazon and then just unscrew the ones that, existed and put on the new ones because they were much quieter. And then also replace a small fan in the little power unit.

And it's literally like you unscrew something and screw in the new ones with a couple adapters to fit the fans properly to the device. Other than that, you basically log on to your minor through your local network, just in your browser on your computer, just putting in the IP address of the device, which you can get a program and just say, scan my network. you'll see something pop up that's your minor. And you put that into your browser. And then you just have a little interface and you just say,

I would like this number of watts going to the machine. So basically you cut it in half. So there's about 650 watts going to the machine to put that in context. My regular space heater is about 1,500 watts. So it's about half the amount of power. And then you take the fans and you ramp them down to about half speed. So about 55%. And other than that, you just kind of set the heat so that it doesn't get too hot.

And then you just plug it in and you run it. And you sign up to a mining pool so that you have sats coming into a wallet that you own. But pretty much now, all I do is on a day, it's a little cool. I walk into my living room and I just plug it into the wall. And it just starts generating heat. And in the background, mining Bitcoin. and my wife is happy because she's warm and I'm happy because I'm mining non-KYC sets and using less power than I would have with our regular space heater.

So again, my main reason why I'm bullish is because I think home mining is accessible to your average person through projects like this and people are getting very inventive with how they utilize home mining in particular. I wanted to show, so this is the unit, by the way, this image on the screen. this is my space heater, that black and red thing right there. So that just sits in the living room and the heat comes out the top. Heat comes out the top there. And yeah, it's just a plug into the wall and a little Wi-Fi dongle inside there

so that we can connect to the internet. And that's pretty much it. And I can control it from my computer if I want to. But some examples of other ways that people are utilizing mining at home, somebody rigged up they're heating a hot tub with ASICs. I mean, it's very like

it's obviously like hodgepodge together and everything, but it demonstrates that it's possible. There's also somebody that's rigged up their home, their water pump

at home. So they've got a water heater that is heated by ASIC minors. And there's even examples of swimming pools being heated by ASICs. So there's a ton of interesting things in and around heating that you would have already been spending money and expelling electricity on, that you can basically have a dual purpose to these things where, yes, you're protecting and participating in the Bitcoin network

and the censorship-resistant nature of the transactions that happen. you're mining and getting non-KYC sats directly to your own wallet and you're heating something you would have already been heating anyways. I think that's a beautiful thing. And I look forward to more and more people doing it. The video that I put up earlier in the week on this tutorial already has like 5,000 something views. So my inclination is to believe that there's going to be a fair number more people starting to do

stuff like this and that makes me really bullish. So I'm going to cab it there and I'm going to just open up to the panel. Whoever has comments, questions, whatever you want to tag in here, feel free. Go ahead. Yeah. I mean, I'd say the biggest thing for me is I love that the word accessible came up multiple times because there's so much resistance because, I mean, not to dial out too much, but Bitcoin overall requires a lot of unlearning of old habits, a lot of completely understanding money in a way that you never really had to. So anything that provides a more accessible on ramp and an easier way to understand how it functions, I think is a huge win in getting more people to understand that it's not this big, scary thing that you have to have a very involved background to understand. 100%. Like keeping it accessible is, I think people assume it's going to be harder than it is. at all times.

And all they really need is just a little bit of handholding and saying, yeah, you can do this. And I got to give a shout out to somebody else in the chat here, by the way, none your business. And he actually also did his space heater at home. But his looks badass. He like he made it himself. His enclosure is fully metal. And this is what it looks like. So he put the ad.

It looks crazy. So shout out to him because he killed it, putting this together himself. So so kudos, man. But yeah, I don't know. Jordan, any thoughts in and around the home mining space? Yeah, man, it's so crazy that you're saying that. I've been following you the last couple weeks just because I've been thinking about doing something similar. I'm in the south of the United States.

So the cold isn't so much of a pressing concern for me. but the the concept or the the value proposition of getting no kyc sets is the thing that for me is is more valuable and then as you're seeing as you've seen over the last you know month or so just these these banks shutting down access to different crypto companies that's just been something that's kind of coming to the front of my mind of just trying to ensure that again even if you're even if it's going to be you know the the the money that you're spending for the energy is is surpassing the amount of Bitcoin you're getting back, at least you're getting Bitcoin. And so I think that's something that I don't want to take. That's a, it's something I don't want to take for granted,

you know, during when there's a time where I can get, you know, minors for relatively cheap. So I'm actually in the market for a couple S-9s looking and looking to do something similar, personally. You should take a look at Kaboom racks. Yeah, they have that secondary market. All the, you know, used miners get shuffled around. And just, I mean, put it out there to Twitter. By the way, if you have some S-9s kicking around and, well, you've got a customer in Jordan here. So reach out to them on Twitter with handles and the show notes. Appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah, no worries, no worries. David, any thoughts around the mining space, in particular, home mining and it being accessible to individuals? Yeah, I think the main comment I have is just about this idea of ASIC recycling. I mean, so much of the FUD that we deal with in Washington comes from studies that, you know, have wildly inaccurate assumptions for how long you can actually use an ASIC. And so, you know, it's cool to see these little projects kind of pop up on my Twitter feed where I see somebody, you know, is heating their home or heating their garage with like ASIC minors. And I'm excited because, you know, I think as that phenomena scales where people want to get into home mining, to your point, for a multitude of reasons, for the no KYC stats, but also, you know, because they can find some other creative way to help them cut down their power bill, I think it's going to go a long way toward educating, you know, policymakers and educating people in general about, you know, the relationship between Bitcoin and its energy usage. It's interesting. And obviously, I know who you're referring to with the wildly inaccurate stats on the life cycle of these devices and when they're expected to contribute to e-waste.

And I think that particular study, I think it said the life cycle is like a year and a half or two years. Am I in the ballpark of what that one positive? Yeah, I think it was a 2.5 year estimate. Okay. Or was a 2.2 year estimate, something like that. Okay. So, and so just to give an idea, the S9 that I'm using, the S9 was first launched in May, the Ant Minor S9 was first launched in May of 2016.

So that was seven years ago. And I just started using it as a space heater today. It is still not e-waste. it is purring away in my living room as we speak, adding a nice little toasty bit of heat to the living room. And it is fantastic. And it will continue to do so for, I imagine it. I mean, I don't know why I wouldn't use it versus any other regular space heater.

So, I mean, that's going to be how I'm heating my living room for a couple of years at least going on from here. So I don't know, extend that out. Maybe, maybe, you know, if I can make it to, to 2026, there's a decade, a decade of life out of something that was supposed to last two years or so. Knocking down the Fed in real time. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, I'm going to say, what's Mr. C? Elon has a, quote, space heater nine face palm.

Thanks for that, Mr. C. Yeah, I think, again, the use case is in and around recycling that heat and and recycling these, these A6s for various purposes. I don't see a world in which we don't start to see products that are actually just built in and around the fact that you're also going to get some Bitcoin as as you run them, right? Like if you if your home appliances that require low grade heat can earn you SATs and secure a global settlement network, a global peer-to-peer cash, it's kind of a no-brainer to me. And I think we're on the cusp of an industry created around that. And I'd be very excited to see that. Obviously,

the DIY stuff is fantastic. But I think we're going to see a lot more of the, hey, buy a space heater. also it mines Bitcoin. Hey, buy a hot tub also it buys mine's Bitcoin. Hey, here's your hot water heater also mines Bitcoin. Oh, and that Olympic swimming pool. Yeah, it's mining and heating with Bitcoin. That's what I was going to say. It's the more like institutional, you know, adoption of that kind of technology that is even more exciting. Just like thinking about yeah, I'm just, I was thinking exactly that you think about these universities that are

every year that goes by their costs of paying their faculty and of, you know, tuition, all these different things, those costs are going up. And so anything, they're going to be looking for anything to mitigate those costs. And so if they can, you know, heat their Olympic swimming pool with A6, you know, it's one of those things. I can totally see them, you know, different schools or different, you know, organizations trying to adopt whatever they can to try to, you know, offset some of those increased costs. Yeah, yeah. It's coming. It's coming.

And I will, to everybody watching here, go check out the video. you know if you're curious if you've been wanting to dive in and learn about mining this is probably the lowest cost easiest way to dip your toes in have you know no real overhead to deal with

and benefit from it a little bit even if you don't use it obviously we're coming up on you know spring and summer and everything but you know if you learn about it now you play around a little bit then winter hits you got something you can just plug it in and go and yeah why not

I mean, I'm sitting in California, SoCal, right now, window open, there's a space heater. I'm touching it. I'm still using that every day. I think that speaks more about me than it does about the weather. But I will be the first customer to anybody that just brings me an out-of-box mining space heater. Yeah. Put me on the record. First customer right here.

Oh, well, you guys heard it here first. There you go. You've got to mark it already. It's forming. and around this show. Yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody, take a look, learn, share it around. I've taken actually, just on a side note,

I've taken to replying to every tweet from Cleanup Bitcoin with the tutorial. So that, yeah. So that anybody that's, you know, reading the comments will, you know, see the FUD and then go, oh, I can actually, you know, the energy that I was using, I can actually, you know, use a little bit less energy and also earn some stats in the process. And, you know, I think it'll challenge some of the assumptions made by a lot of the tweets from that account. I also dedicated the video to Elizabeth Warren.

So, so nonetheless, we'll round out this topic here. Again, thanks everybody in the chat and everything. But we're going to do a rotation here. Keep the chat message is coming, by the way, give this a share and everything. And we're going to rotate. I'm going to jump over to Jordan first. And I'm going to cue you up with a simple question. Why are you bullish? Hey, yeah. So a couple reasons. So reason number one, as you kind of alluded to, today is good Friday. So I'm bullish for that reason. So it's actually crazy. Again, your word being your bond was tested for me. let's see a couple days ago when I realized because I committed to do to you know do this show about three weeks ago and then realized that our church has like a good Friday service so like

the rest of my family is currently at church. Oh no. So yeah. So that's that's one big reason. But as far as the the Bitcoin related reason, it would be I'm bullish because of TGFB 23 that's going to be taking place in Miami the two days before the conference that Lana has been working so hard to schedule and coordinate and all those things. So I have, to a much less degree, been doing something very similar trying to coordinate and plan out our event. So basically,

we are going to be, I mean, a stone's throw from the Miami Beach Convention Center where the normal conference is going to be. And yeah, so basically we're going to have, I mean, we have a bunch of different speakers. Some of your, yep, there you go. So a lot of your, the people who you're most familiar with from the Bitcoin world, actually, if you go to tgfb.com, that was, that's another one. So you go to tgfb.com and then click the get tickets now and you'll see kind of the conference page. Right. There you go. Perfect. So we have, I mean, some of the, some of the biggest names in, in Bitcoin are going to be there, a bunch of them. So we're going to have, Preston Pish, Robert Reelove, Eric Hursman, who's the founder of Gridless, helping to use Bitcoin mining in Africa.

Greg Foss, Zubi, we're basically, so this is primarily the people who are coming are Bitcoiners, but we also have people who aren't Bitcoiners. So we're going to be doing, for example, a panel about Bitcoin and freedom. And so on that panel, we're going to have basically Zubi talking about like lockdowns and what that looked like in the role that, you know, Bitcoin played in that. we're going to have Mark Moss. I'm waiting to hear back. We've got another person who are waiting to hear back from Miles. Miles Suter is actually one of the ones I'm waiting to hear back from. He's talked with him about the possibility of doing it. So we have just a bunch of different speakers. Jaka Mozuko was there last year. Justin Moon and Skyler, who's their

designer is going to be going to be there from the Feddy team talking about what they've been working on in Guatemala. There's just a ton of Mills from Bitcoin magazine. Lana's coworker love her. So she's going to be there. There's just going to be Mike Peterson from Bitcoin Beach, Paul Miller from now Mutiny Wallet. He worked the last few years for voltage. So just a bunch of different guys from all over the world, all of the Bitcoin world. And then also some people from outside the Bitcoin world in the broader Christian world. So actually the very top one, his name is C.R. Wiley. He's a pastor, author, and podcast.

of the theology podcast is actually his his his podcast so he's going to be coming and speaking so basically again the goal is basically for this to be a space where bitcoiners and pre-bitcoiners can come and just think through like why why bitcoin matters it sounds on the surface initially it sounds super cringe and weird the why should christians care about bitcoin uniquely or you know more than just normal people i'm the first to acknowledge that it sounds super weird and super cringe Um, I, my background, I was a pastor and missionary, uh, living in Uruguay and in South America, didn't know anything about Bitcoin. Uh, and so the fact that I'm doing this today is, is, is, you know, it is crazy on one level. Um, but basically, again, what we're, what we're trying to do is

just show the real on the ground, visceral, tangible, personal, uh, ways in which fiat currency just affects and destroys the lives of people all over the, all over the world, especially the poor. Um, and so when, when I was in Uruguay, more than half of our church were Venezuelan immigrants. So these were people in some cases who were doctors, you know, economists who were, thank you, yellow, appreciate you. So these are people in some cases who were doctors, economists, people who were making, in some cases, more than $100,000 a year, denominated in the Venezuelan Bolivar, they were making good money. And then three or four years later, they weren't able to pay the rent.

And so we just saw the ways that that forced fathers to leave their wives and their kids back in Venezuela and move to a different country to get a job and send money home to them. And so just seeing these real world effects of something is seemingly untangible and unimportant as magic internet money, that's for me. This is my own personal story. And so basically what we're trying to do is kind of share similar stories and just layout. for people and for, you know, ministry leaders, you know, pastors, you know, all kinds of people who are, who are, I mean, I was talking to, actually, JD from Cypher Punk Cinema who was on your show a couple weeks ago. And we were just doing a little bit of research as far as like how much, like the, the amount of money and resources that the Christian world in the United States controls. And it's over

$200 billion. And so you have people who are these people in organizations in the states, people in the United States who are giving to organizations that are doing work all over the world. And basically those people with every year that goes by, every day that goes by, they're able to do less and less of that work that's actually helping people. They're able to do less and less because fiat is trending towards zero. And so again, there's a bunch of other aspects as well. But we're going to be kind of breaking down what Bitcoin is, the history of money. Robert Breedlove and Brian Estes from off the chain capital are going to be breaking down like the history of money. Yeah, there's just going to be a bunch of different panelists, a bunch of different awesome topics.

So we're, we'd love to have you. If you use promo code TGFB 23, that'll get you 15% off of you, any of your ticket options, including the live stream option. We have a bunch of Ben, we have a bunch of people who we love dearly who are Canadian bitcoins and who, you know, who would love to be able to come in person. but because of the insane, you know, policies of our two nations related to some of them getting there if they don't have certain, if they haven't made certain medical decisions that those governments want them to make, they're not able to be there. So we basically spent, decided it was a worthy investment to spend a good amount of money on a professional live stream team to ensure that people all over the world are able to have as good of as close to an, in-person experience as possible. So that's that's one thing that I'm just really bullish about.

I'm just really excited to see. Again, this will be our second year of doing this event. And so again, just excited to see a bunch of my, you know, my Bitcoin friends, a bunch of just other people as well, get to experience and be orange-pilled for the first time in many cases. And, you know, for some of them, it's just going to be encouragement and, you know, to have resources to take them home to share with, you know, people back in their normal life. So I do have some, I don't know if you saw it, but the travel restrictions are dropping as of May 11th. No way. Oh, that's awesome.

I did not see that. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. So yeah. So anybody, you know, if that was a factor for you, it will not be as of about a month from now. So just prior to the conference. Do you hear that Pastor Coyne?

Pastor Coyne is one of them. Jesse, let's see, who else? Gosh, what is his last name? Jesse Burger. Jesse Burger, yeah, Jesse Burger. Oh, man, hopefully Jesse can make it. But yeah, there's all these, all these Canadian Bitcoin friends of mine who just, I haven't been able to see for, you know, a couple of year, two or three years.

I've known Jesse. I've been talking to Jesse for three and a half years, I think, and just have never been able to meet in person because of COVID and all these things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, yeah, again, I'm, I'm excited to see everybody down there. So the main thing that comes in mind when, when, you know, you bring up, thank God for Bitcoin and the event and everything. And, you know, you're like, oh, well, I know it seems weird and everything.

But I mean, the beautiful thing about Bitcoin is regardless of kind of your mindset, where you're from, your beliefs, Bitcoin is, is, is. is this neutral global money phenomenon. Again, it's a global language for value. And regardless of who you are and where you're from, it's going to speak to different people for different reasons. And so, you know, when people look at different groups gravitating to Bitcoin and think, oh, that's weird. Why that specific group?

why that specific group? It's because it's useful for everyone in totally different ways. It's useful for somebody in a, you know, in Canada, in a totally different way than it is for somebody in Nigeria. It's useful for somebody in Venezuela and a totally different way than it is for somebody in Germany. It doesn't matter what your beliefs are. All that matters is that you understand Bitcoin enough to see where it's useful for you, because honestly, it's useful for everybody.

It's such a unique beast in that respect in that. It brings together people of different beliefs, different creeds, different parts of the world in a way that I haven't really seen in much else. And I think that's a beautiful thing. So myself, I'm not a religious person, but I've come to, and I should clarify, I went to Catholic school growing up. and I kind of just, you know, drifted away from that. Maybe that says something more about the public, the schooling system. Anything. But nonetheless, you know, I drifted away from that.

And that's, you know, entirely different thing. But I think through meeting, again, like Christian Bitcoiners and everything, through this, I've come to a greater appreciation of, you know, I think the morals of Bitcoin in, in like kind of the inherent fairness of the protocol speaks to people that are in Christianity. And so I think it speaks to different people for different reasons. And I think that's the unique part about Bitcoin is how you see Bitcoin is a bit of a mirror. Like what you see in Bitcoin is reflective of your values. And because it is open to everybody.

So yeah, I think I mean, I really appreciate that. And I think one of the things, again, like, so basically what we see ourselves, what we see ourselves doing is we're just, we're translating. You know, like I was, I was a missionary. I lived in, I lived in Uruguay. And, and I'm trying to translate both in terms of the language itself, but also I'm trying to translate ideas and contextualize ideas in a, in a, in a, in a, in a moment that, you know, it's like they're work Christians in your, so it's not like there weren't any questions, but you're trying to translate, you know, these ideas as much as the language themselves. And so that's what we're trying to do is what is just think through like what are, what are some of the key, you know, ideas and arguments.

How can we frame the arguments of Bitcoin in a language that, you know, that touches on areas that are important to Christians. And so one of the things that is really important, I'll just give one example, would be the idea within Christian. there's this concept of the amago day which means latin for the image of god and so basically every person is is created in the image of god no matter if you're rich you're poor no matter what your skin color you're you are made in god's image and so there is a that's a level it creates a level playing field among people and so functionally fiat money fiat currency creates a tiered system of of people it creates you know it creates people who are in a very real sense like god you have

these governments and central banks who can create money out of thin air. They give themselves this godlike power. And then you have these people who are less than human, whose labor loses value over time. And so this is a big part, this idea of Bitcoin is impartial money. It's money that has a justice system that treats the poor exactly like it treats, you know, treats the rich. And so it's just things like that where, you know, we're trying to figure out how can we, how can we translate the, different value propositions of Bitcoin into terminology and ideas and present them in a way that aren't just because again, there's a certain, there are certain ways in which Bitcoin is,

is again, certain arguments for it that are across the board, obvious to everyone. But there's other things where, you know, if we can, if we can translate in such a way that it can be that much more helpful, then, you know, that's what we want to do. This is another conversation that I had with JD today. It was just talking about creating me. We're both in the media business trying to create content. And so one of the things that we were talking about was, you know, what are some of these outside groups that we're trying to penetrate with Bitcoin?

And so, you know, you have, there's all kinds of different, you know, subgroups, subcultures that, you know, you want to move in and help them explain Bitcoin. So, you know, Christians are one group. I mean, there's other people with other religions that are doing something similar. I mean, I met a group, a husband and wife team whose kids are in college now who are going full time in creating homeschool resources, Bitcoin homeschool resources. And so homeschooling in the United States is exploding. And so they are going to all these conferences. They're selling.

They created a board game. That is horrible. I can't remember what it's called offhand. The Sharmory. No, it's not Sharmory. Those guys are awesome, too. Yeah, they are. It's like, it's not homeschool Bitcoin.

I'll find it and throw it up. maybe on Twitter afterwards. But basically they're creating resources. They're seeing here's this community that we've been a part of. They at homeschooled some of their kids, I think. Here's this community that we've been a part of. Now, how can we work and help that group to understand Bitcoin? And so this is something that, you know, all of us have, you know,

people in our lives and groups in our lives who we understand that we are one of the best people to reach that group of people to help them understand Bitcoin. And so, again, it's just thinking, you know, within the, Christian world, the world would be like missionally, but just thinking intentionally of, you know, how, like, who are the people in my life that I am uniquely positioned? What are the areas in my areas in my life, the things that I'm interested in where I'm uniquely positioned to, to help this group understand Bitcoin. And, you know, that's, that's kind of what, what we're existing to do. So, yeah, that's, that's fantastic. I want to open it up to, uh, uh, David or Lana,

Again, regardless of, I don't know if either of your religious or not, but I mean, I think, again, it speaks to the fact that everybody can benefit from Bitcoin in one way or another if they understand it well enough. So, you know, if any of you want to speak to that, either on the Christian side of things or whether just like individual different groups have that or. Yeah. I mean, in general, I always, always, always say Bitcoin is for everyone, even if they don't know it yet. So it's really about meeting people where they're starting. And that might be religion. That might be whatever industry they're working in. And if it's religion, I think to echo yellow, don't apologize for that.

Don't call it cringe. I think religion, I was raised with a very complex and confusing religious background. Thankful to have come out on the side of I respect all religions. I support all religions. My husband is very religious. and I just work to support him and make sure that he feels like that's always an important vertical in his life that his family backs. And that being said, I see how important that is for him.

I also see how important that is for certain sects of society, especially those, like, the important work you're doing in impoverished or poverty-stricken nations or communities. So I'm fully supportive of that. And I think if that's a vertical that allows you to reach the masses and really help them see how it can not only benefit them on a personal level, but also benefit the work that they're doing to support others. I think that's massive. Yeah.

Again, to tag on to what you're saying here, I wanted to mention one of the thing here before. Maybe I'll toss to David right away after it. But before kind of finding Bitcoin, I think I grew up in a mindset where I almost was, I had like an animosity towards religion and religious people, like coming out of like the Catholic school system. And it was kind of, you know, like, again, I mean, the media and everything doesn't help. But like you get the most extreme versions of anything when you're concerned because like everything is for clicks.

Everything's for views. And so what I came to find is that I've again, like I've shifted in a way where I've become much more accepting and appreciative of people from all walks of life because of this, including people that are religious. And I, you know, I've got a newfound appreciation for kind of, again, like the people having a, you know, a moral. standard in their lives that they would like to lead their lives by. And I think that's a thing where it can bring, again, bring together people from all walks of life to allow them to individually appreciate each other for that. So yeah, I'll just say that. And maybe, I don't know, David, do you want to tag in here?

Yeah, I don't have too much to say about the topic. Yeah, I'm a devout Christian myself and a bit coiner, but I wouldn't say I spend a lot of time thinking about the two in connection. You know, I think there's like, you know, pretty obvious kind of biblical anecdotes that I guess kind of are useful to think about. You know, one is

very infrequently in the Bible is Christ ever portrayed as being like, you know, really upset or like really angry. There are a couple of times, though, and they're all really notable. And one of them is at the temple where, you know, Jesus, you know, flipped the proverbial tables of the money counters over because it was, it was common practice to shortchange people on what was basically at the time, like, you know, foreign currency exchange. And it was sort of widely known

that the Romans were debasing the currency. And so I think that, you know, Christ, you know, would probably not be a fan of the fiat money system, but kind of in the same way that, in my view, at least, Christ wouldn't be a fan of, you know, really anything that's the product of man who's sort of, in my view, fundamentally broken. So I guess I don't think about Christianity and Bitcoin all that much. And, you know, Christ also teaches to not worship money. And I think that's the other sort of side of that argument is like there are definitely a lot of parallels and like useful insights from my perspective. But I also think that a lot of people, especially in the crypto space, maybe more broadly

than the Bitcoin space, but I think Bitcoiners too, you know, making it like almost their own religion. Yes. Yeah. Like worshipping it. I think there is an interesting sort of connection between the topics and interesting like interplay between the topics. Yeah.

someone who is a, you know, church every Sunday kind of guy and I work full time in Bitcoin. I spend very, very little time kind of thinking about both of them together. That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting how people bring together the or or keep separate the different aspects of their lives. And, you know, some people, you know, integrate everything together. And, you know, I, I've seen a bit of a bit of both where you know people have their you know there there there's people that live like a public life and their bitcoin life is like this closeted i'm a secret bitcoins i'm a secret bitciner and then there's like yeah and but then there's also the inverse there's like the bitcoins that are just like all i know of them and all other people know of them is like their nym and so like that's

kind of like their public face in the bitcoin space and then they've got whole other lives that nobody is privy to. It's, I think there, you can have both and then sometimes those, those lives cannot be kept separate. I think eventually everything ends up commingling and, and like being a bitcoiner is,

is going to be no different than just living your life because that'll, it'll just be ubiquitous everywhere. But yeah, I dream of that day. I mean, again, I'm in L.A. And I, I consider myself a more,

uh, based individual. So having, the separation is kind of critical for living and having a social circle while also being a Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah. My sister's in L.A. I don't think, I mean, again, like, it's so easy. You get the, you get the media spin and people paint a picture of who they think you are if you're, you know, exactly. Yeah, I think, I think the one of the things, like, I'll add one more thing. I think the difficulty, the tension that David is pointing out rightly is the tension of of Bitcoin being an end in and of

itself and Bitcoin being a means to an end. And that and it's it's it's so easy to get so excited about whether it's Bitcoin or whether it's you know, whatever other other good thing is in our life. It's easy for that to be like the all all encompassing like this is the reason why I live versus you know, this is this is a means that helps me get to where I want to, you know, the world that I want to see. And so I think that that's been something that we, you know, that I've just thought about a ton is, you know, Bitcoin is this, Bitcoin is valuable because it stores people's time in labor. And so that's the function.

That's the reason why money is valuable. It's because of how it serves people. And so the ultimate goal is serving people. And insofar as Bitcoin does that better than other things, that's why it's to be valued and commended. But it should stop at something. place. There are people who do want, they get, they, they co-mingle those things to degrees that are very uncomfortable and unwarranted. And they do so, you know, they're just get really excited

about these things that they see in Bitcoin. And I understand it to a certain level. But again, it's there's, there's, even within the Christian Bitcoin circles, there's, there's people who I'm just like, you know, rain yourself in, man. You're going too far. Yeah. I will say there's two more, two more projects related to that, related to the conference that I am, I am bullish about. now I just want to mention them. So one of them is, there's two books that we're going to have, that TGFB is going to be helping publish.

One of them is a book with a guy. His name is, his handle is Hoddling Jay. It's a book just basically about, honestly, about like what are, what are, why are Christian,

it's basically written for people who are not religious. Basically, why, why are their Christian bitcoiners who are so excited about Bitcoin? I feel like that's a book for me. I think. So that's coming out.

And so it's, I believe we're reporting this live for the first time here on the show. It's going to be called the gospel according to Bitcoin. And it's going to be like 21 meditations on basically the relationship between, you know, like Christianity and Bitcoin. And then the other book is a kids book that J.D. and I have been working on together.

And that I'm not going to give the title for that. But that's going to be coming out soon. we're going to announce that at the conference the day before. So it's kids' book, illustrated book, designed to help people understand a little bit more about monetary history and the role that Bitcoin plays in that. So I'm super excited about both those things as well. That's awesome, man. Well, I'm looking forward to it. What was the website again?

TGFB.com. Yep, you got it. Awesome. All right. Well, if you're in Miami, May 16th and 17th prior to the conference, prior to the main Miami conference, Emmy conference, then, you know, if this speaks to you, hit it up. Tickets are on sale right now. So, yeah, man, that's, thanks for bringing that up.

Before we do a rotation, I just want to give a shout out to a couple of comments here, Yellow's, yellow saying, I don't think the big guy was anti-money, more like anti-consumerism, which is something a lot of Bitcoiners have in common. Yeah, so I do think that that lines up there. Also, number one fan David Wong says, I see Bitcoin more as of Satan's money. That's why it's called Sats, short for Satan. Thank you, David. Never change.

Continue to come back. We value your input at all times. Anyways, we're going to do a rotation here. I won't dwell on that any further. But I'm going to toss it over to David. And David, I'm just going to cue you up. Same simple question. Why are you bullish?

Take it away. All right. Well, I'm bullish because our think tank is putting on its first hopefully annual event in Washington, D.C. The event is called the Bitcoin Policy Summit. And I'm bullish because, to my knowledge, this is the first time that anything like this has ever happened in Washington that was Bitcoin only. You know, so much of the education for lawmakers in D.C. has come from the crypto industry. So a lot of lawmakers have heard about how blockchain is the future. They've heard about how, you know, ripple is going to be the, you know, best thing ever and how we're all going to have CBDCs. I mean, so much of the lobbying was funded by, was funded by FTX and San Bankman-Fried. And so we thought that in the wake of all of that, kind of in the middle of a bear market, you know, it was the right time to put something together. that was just pure signal and was not talking about crypto, was not talking about Dow's or defy or NFTs, but specifically talking about how Bitcoin can be beneficial for America and

for really for, you know, democracies across the world. And, you know, I'm also bullish about this event because of the stories that are going to be told. The stories that, you know, and you can kind of see this on our website here, but the stories that people hear about Bitcoin are often really, really bad, especially in D.C., right? It's about how North Korea uses Bitcoin to fund the weapons program or how Bitcoin mining is going to damage the environment. You know, they don't hear the stories about people

that are living in authoritarian regimes, which is more than half the world. They don't hear the stories about people who live in countries with double or triple digit inflation, which is anywhere between one and two billion people who use Bitcoin not as a speculative vehicle, but as like a necessary tool, a necessary technology to survive to protest their government, to transact with their peers.

So I'm bullish because I think this event is going to tell stories about Bitcoin that, you know, the audience really have never heard before, or if they have, they've only heard, you know, in passing. So you'll recognize a lot of our speakers, you know, people like Alex Gladstein, Jack Mullers, Cynthia Lummis, Natalie Brunel, Matthew Pines. You'll notice a lot of the BPI fellows. You'll also notice a lot of people who, you know,

work in government who work in digital asset policy. And so I think we've got a nice blend of bitcoinsers, of elected officials, of people that work at BPI. And yeah, I mean, it's the first thing like this that's ever happened. And I'm really excited about the event. Dude, this looks pretty awesome. And I, okay, so the one thing that stood out to me is, is you saying, like middle of a bear market, you know, having an event like this where, where, you know,

the, the irrationality of a bull market is not in full swing. And you have the opportunity to grab the attention of a number of people when there's not a ton of irrational, ill-gotten gains sloshing around to influence things. When everything's in the midst of blowing up and everybody's, examining what the hell happened in this past calendar year saying, geez, everything, like what is going on? Everything's imploding. Everything seems terrible.

You have the opportunity to gather a group of people that is, one, well-spoken, to able to communicate a cohesive and easy to distill message and narrative that makes sense and will continue to stay consistent into the future, which is something totally different from the narrative that we see from everything else. There's a constant shift in we need to say that we do the thing that Bitcoin currently can't do. And then eventually Bitcoin can do it. And it's like, well, okay, we got to shift to the narrative of why we're better than Bitcoin or why, why it's necessary to have some central control on this to tweak this and do that. Whereas, you know, the messaging in and around Bitcoin and kind of what it represents is relatively cohesive.

And I think that's why people are focusing, are able to focus in on Bitcoin so much quicker in their learning curve now than a few years back. It took me years because the content and the quality of thought was not there yet. I'm regularly speaking with people now doing like one-on-one sessions teaching them, you know, the practical stuff. And they say, yeah, you know, I got it in Bitcoin 2021. And I spent a year. And then that's how long it took me to realize that Bitcoin is what made sense. I had one guy. He was like, oh, yeah, I got into Bitcoin.

And then six weeks later, I realized that, you know, I had bought a bunch of other crap. And then I realized that none of it made sense. And after six weeks, I went Bitcoin only. And I'm thinking, how is that possible, given like, you know, my trajectory? It's because people like this, like I look at this list of people here. You know, Roy is incredible. Jack, I mean, Jack Mallors knocks it out of the park every time he has a mic in front of them. Gladstein, Troy Cross is phenomenal.

I love Margo. You know, Nat is the master of hitting a two-minute news segment and ensuring. that her talking points get out in those in that period of time. Like, again, Natalie Smolensk, Smolensky is awesome. Amanda, again, there's just so many good people here. And to plant those seeds in the midst of a bear market so that when the irrationality is running at maximum during another cycle, you're going to have the people that have already kind of,

quote unquote been orange pill but like understand the general value proposition and kind of why Bitcoin was created in the first place, they'll have that underlying knowledge to be able to cut through the fluff, to under as you said, understand the signal,

the high, you know, they've got high signal here and when when people, when they get the barrage of BS that comes with the bull market, it'll help them cut through it so much quicker. So I'm, I'm, I am now very bullish on this because I didn't realize

like how many people were involved and the quality again watching Fadi is that how you say his name Fadi? Yeah. Watching him speak in Oslo last year was incredible. Yeah, man, good for you.

I'm so glad that you're a part of this. So thanks for bringing it. I'll open it up to Jordan or Lana. You guys want to tag in. I was just going to ask you. So is this event open to the public? Is it open to anybody can get tickets? Are they, I think I saw a tickets link.

Yeah, so it's invitation only. We are kind of capped at how many people we can have, but you can go on our website and apply for a ticket. Odds are we'll accept you because we've still got some spaces, but those are rapidly going to like vanish. We're selling a couple of tickets a day to clubs. and we're trying to keep most of the audience non-Bitcoiners, right? Like we want people there to hear the message who have not heard it before.

But that's why we're partnering with, I'm actually not sure whether we're going to partner with Swan or Bitcoin Magazine up in the air. I think we're going to partner with Swan actually. I was going to say Bitcoin Mag, but I think we're actually doing it with Swan, but they're going to be. Well, okay. Well, you know, talk to, talk to Bitcoin Magazine's marketing budget because, you know, we, we have. But, no, look, the event is going to be live streamed. So we're not, we're not trying to hide any of our conversations from the public. You know, the entire event, you'll be able to watch for free from home, from your computer.

But if you want to come join us in person, tickets are $1,000. So it's steep, but it's also a tax write off. So when you've got capital gains to offset and Bitcoin moons again, your ticket purchase can be used to offset your capital gains. So I'll leave it at that. Can I spend my non-KYC space heater stats on this? You sure can. You can just send us sats. We don't have to know anything about you.

We don't have to disclose you to anybody. So if you've got some non-KYC zats, although you don't need to, I won't comment on the tax implications. of those, but maybe you want to be sending your KYC and stats if you're going to write it off. I wanted to ask in regards to the audience, obviously, you know, you got

you got Bitcoins that are interested in coming, but you said you want people to hear the message that have not heard it before. What is the tactic employed or what are the tactics employed in getting the type of people you want to hear this message in the room? Because I

imagine that's got to be a tough sell like when it's a bull market everybody's like geez like maybe i should pay attention to this when it's a bear market it's it's kind of like i mean in this past year there's been a lot of attention on it but it's negative attention so how do you you know go go past that and so grab the attention of somebody that is going to want to be in the room and listen to what is said yeah well in some ways you know i think especially the policy world, you know, there's a bit of a stricand effect where, yes, there's a lot of negative attention, but that kind of means people are more interested in learning. And so,

you know, not only do I hope, but I actually know for a fact that a lot of the people that will be coming to this are people that are anti-Bitcoin or Bitcoin skeptical, which is, you know, exactly kind of who we want there. But then the other reason is that, you know, the way we do this is all of our work tries to sort of tie Bitcoin into already existing policy issues. So if you're a staffer or a legislative aide who is working on, you know, financial inclusion, well, you know, and we've probably talked to you before about Bitcoin. So, you know, we sent you marketing materials that told you about the financial inclusion panels. same with energy, with national security, with privacy.

So I think a lot of our audience will be sort of kind of coming in and out throughout the day. Like people that work on national security issues will come for the national security content. People that are interested in CBDCs will come to the hour in 10 minutes we're devoting to, you know, bashing CBDCs. So, you know, I think in a lot of ways, digital asset regulation, has become kind of an issue de jour in Washington. And so, you know, I think that's why people are coming. It's because they've heard about this maybe once or twice at their job.

They realize that it's not going anywhere. And then they see, oh, here's a place where I can learn more about this, you know, in a way that I'm the way that I'm used to, like going to a think tank summit. So, yeah. Chris Alamo was saying David Zell, getting them in the room. He's enticing Elizabeth Warren's anti-Crypto army. I mean, again, to your point, you want the skeptics in the room because the skeptics have only really heard one side of the story.

They go to the Digiconomist type of content, and they read that and don't realize that, you know, those studies and that data is, is old and debunked and poorly researched. And they don't realize that there's this entirely different aspect to Bitcoin. And you also, you do kind of want the people that see the problems with quote unquote crypto to come to because then you can very much say, I mean, we're kind of with you on that. I was just about to say, like, we actually met with Elizabeth Warren's, some of her staff recently. And I think they were super surprised when we started off the meeting being like, yeah, we actually agree that, you know, crypto is kind of a giant scam. And that pretty much everything out there is like a Ponzi scheme.

They're like, wait, what? I thought you guys were, you know, were crypto lobbyists. We're like, no, no. you know the the the elizabeth warren camp and the bitcoin maximalist camp actually have quite a bit in common when it comes to their their views on on on on shit coins and on registered securities so it is kind of a a fun launching off point where you have a conversation with someone that you know you expect to completely disagree with and then you sort of for they expect to completely disagree with you and you sort of flip it on its head by being like yeah we uh we we

we agree about this big thing. And then everything after that, you know, you're a little bit more credible. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And okay, so there's somebody in the chat that says, do you actually believe most people are just ignorant?

Or do you actually believe that they're resistant, like gatekeepers of the control system? I mean, in my opinion, I think there's a mix. There's definitely those that, you know, they are not only incentivized,

but, you know, just, just was scared to shift to anything different. But I do believe that there's also those that are just misinformed that don't understand really anything about Bitcoin. I mean, I didn't understand anything about Bitcoin. Even when I thought I understood Bitcoin, you know, it's kind of this up and down where it's the midwit meme. where it's like, I don't understand Bitcoin. The midwit says they understand Bitcoin. And then like the the person, the genius realizes that they don't understand Bitcoin. And so it's, but it's it's experiencing that over and over again because you always feel like, I don't understand.

I finally get it. Oh, I don't understand. Oh, I finally, no. And it's, it's this back and forth because there's always more to learn. And so, yeah, I do think, I do genuinely think there are. lot of people that just don't understand and are ignorant, but I also do think that indeed there are many people that are directly incentivized and acknowledge. I mean, what's the number, the number one guy who totally gets it is, uh, what's the guy who's he, he said,

Hanky, no, no, not Hanky. Uh, I mean, although yes, but, um, there's, there's, uh, a representative. I'm trying to remember, but he's Sherman. Brad Sherman. Oh, man, he totally gets it. And he hates it for the right reasons. But he's one of the few that's like, I get it and I hate it. He does group like crypto and Bitcoin altogether. So he doesn't fully get it.

But like he gets the general concept and like what he perceives as the threat. And he's kind of bang on. but also, I mean, tough. This is just the world that you live in. It exists and the world just has to grapple with the fact that it exists. Yeah. In some ways, I think, I mean, again, not to be too sympathetic, but if you just think, you're trying to think about it logically, like, I mean, in order to understand Bitcoin,

I mean, you have to, this is like several hundred hours, you know, like if you go down the rabbit, it's like hundreds, if not thousands of hours. And if these guys are politicians, they're building. their, you know, they're building their careers, all these political careers, you know, it totally makes sense that they're not going to have, you're not going to see Elizabeth Warren. Like, hey, guys, I'm going to take time away from my presidential campaign to study Bitcoin for a month. You know, like that, that's just not going to happen. Yeah. And so, yeah, again, not that I'm sympathetic to Elizabeth Warren on 99% of things, but that I really do appreciate

David, you know, you articulate in that really, you guys had a lot more in common. So that, that gives me, that's encouraging to me. Well, I mean, it's, it's kind of, like the you draw the parallel of i mean peter schiff is almost a bitcoiner just you just can't get over the the lack of physicality that that's his main thing right like he's he's he's like if he could just get over that one little sticking point and you know the fact that he could rectify you know the the thing that was closest to achieving what i want to achieve act a few properties that just you can't rectify. You know,

he has that one stumbling block. But in terms of values, Peter Schiff is more or less completely aligned with Bitcoiners. He just, you know, there's incentive there, but also he just, he just can't move past the fact that like,

again, what's the definition of insanity trying the same thing again and expecting different results? We go back to a gold standard. what happens, right? That peg might be there for a little bit, but you can dissolve a peg twice. So nonetheless, I don't know. Lana, do you want to tag in here too? Yeah, well, I mean, I know you mentioned Liz Warren having to spend some time.

She can start with the white paper that's now on her Mac. So she can have some light weekend reading there. But honestly, so when it comes to the comparison of gold to go back to Jordan, the couple of the points that you made proof of work like I know we have the ESG side when it comes to Bitcoin but looking at the proof of work that actually goes into gold like even say we could go back in our time machine and go back to a gold standard great we'd stabilize the dollar but also what does that mean for mining gold and the human beings like talk about that proof of work right from a humanity perspective I don't want to ever go back to that and it's still happening

every day, but to increase the demand as that being pegged to the dollar, I would never advocate for that. Yeah. One thing that you touched on there, I mean, assuming Elizabeth Warren is not on a typewriter, I would assume she's a Windows girl. No, we have a, we posted a photo from Bitcoin magazine. She's on a MacBook. Oh, wow.

Oh, geez. Yeah. Cutting edge then. All right. So it's in her hands, whether or not she has. actually saw our tweet, it's in her hands. Fantastic. Well, post that line of code in your terminal and, and, you know, get reading.

It's only nine pages, Liz. You can do it. Awesome. All right. David, did you want to tag anything else on? Do you want to direct any? So like the website, I'll bring it up again here. One second.

So here's the BTC Policy Summit. dot org is the event. It's April 26th, 2023 at the National Press Club Ballroom. There's a link to get tickets and there's also a request invitation button. So request away. Also, BTC policy.org if you want to check out what they're doing. David, do you want to tag in anything else

that people should check out or any final thoughts? No, thanks for having me. I think I think what we do in April is going to be an incredible event. I'm excited to see how it all turns out. And hopefully you guys are excited to tune in or be with us there in person. Awesome. Yeah. I do want to watch this one.

I'm very curious to kind of see how the information is presented. I'm always looking for new ways to present ideas to different types of audiences. And I think Bitcoiners would do well to look at ways that they can present ideas, not based on their understanding of it, but based on who you are speaking with. It's so important to understand and ask questions of the person that you're talking to, not impose your knowledge upon them because Bitcoin speaks to different people in different ways. And to Jordan's point earlier, again, like there's a whole community of Christians that have I've identified with Bitcoin and understood it because of certain values.

But those values aren't the same for every single person. And so you need to hone in on what's important to that individual and then hone in on how Bitcoin applies in that situation. So yeah. All right. Well, uh, we're going to do a final rotation here. Um, just before we do that rotation, David Wong would like you guys to know that Bitcoin and Dogecoin are the same.

They are both recording on a public ledger. They are cryptos. Thank you, David. Never changed. Very much value your input. My entire existence has been challenged with that. Just look at Twitter. I know.

I just want to point out that chivalry is truly and utterly dead. We made Lana go last. So this is my mother would be mortified. Awesome. I've been good hearing you guys because I've never been on this show. So it was good to hear the riffing and I was planning in my head and plotting the whole time. Well, I'm glad because you're up next. And I'm going to, again, I'll start you off with very simple questions, same as the others.

Why are you bullish? Take it away. Sure. So I'm going to give the shortest possible elevator pitch of my background and my own creative career to this point that led me to working in Bitcoin. to answer that question. So I always actually planned on being a stay-at-home mom. I knew from every age I can think of that I wanted to be a mother, that I wanted to raise my family,

that I wanted to be the traditional woman, sorry, feminists everywhere. I truly always really aspired to be the mom of the family and make that my career. Went to college and hustled to start my own business from a very young age so that I could save up, plan, work for myself, never need the nine to five. On the way, I visited a couple industries. Big Pharma, didn't like big pharma working in that capacity.

Legal cannabis distribution, that was a fun little riff. Ended up in Bitcoin, mostly just because all that to say, it never worked out in a fiat world for me to be a stay-at-home mom. The idea of a one-income household is just not attainable for the masses at this point. And if I have to work, obviously I have to work, money is broken. What can we do? If I have to work, I need it to be in Bitcoin. I need it to be knowing that future men, women, whomever, it doesn't matter who wants

to aspire to be the family rear or to be more involved in their children's lives. I want to give that option back to people because that's not an option for me unless Bellagia is right. I don't think it's going to be an option for me any time in necessarily. earlier my working years. And I'm also watching in real time working years are just being extended. Look at France. It's just, it's trending all in the wrong direction. And we're all just in this system where, okay, we're living to work, we're living to work, we're living to work. People are starting side hustles. People are starting side jobs and getting second and third

jobs just to make ends meet and feed their families, even in nations as overly successful as America. Like, we are exceptionally blessed here to have all of the freedoms that we have and all of the resources available to us, even just down to like my fridge full of food. I'm very grateful for, but I also am aware that we're kind of at the top of those resources just being so readily available. So if it's this difficult for us, difficult being a very relative term, I really do see, I don't see it personally, but I see just how that entire spectrum is really, really hurting families. And it's kind of breaking the idea of a traditional family. And that's my reason. To loop back to my working in Bitcoin, very thankful that I'm working in this space. And I'm bullish

because of the work that I'm doing. I'm super thankful, super thankful to be working for Bitcoin magazine and for the conference, we are putting the largest stage out there for Bitcoiners, obviously, but I'm personally driven by the non-bitcoiners. I want to continue to position this company with my incredible team toward people that don't understand yet, people that are completely put off. They're watching the 5 o'clock news. They're hearing how we're killing the earth. That's fine. Let's have those conversations. We're bringing speakers that are having those conversations, we're addressing all of those issues. I don't want to live in an echo chamber of Bitcoiners. I love the echo chamber of Bitcoiners. It's the most fun. That's what I do with the

meetups that I go to. Thank you, Vegan Warrior. But it's really just, I am really thankful that my job gives me the ability to talk to so many people that don't yet know why they care about Bitcoin or don't yet know why Bitcoin is really a tool to help bring back the family dynamic. I love topic so much. Again, this is something I mean, my wife talk about a lot as she's kind of she's coming into the Bitcoin fold.

Like she was always very supportive as I kind of shifted my focus. She's like, you know, as long as as our family's okay, then, you know, you go and do what you're passionate about. But she's since she started helping me with with the channel and everything.

So literally she will go through this episode in a few weeks time and she will pick clips of like, oh, I liked that part where they ranted about this thing. And she'll clip it up and it'll go up on Twitter. And so you might see a tag here and there of like, oh, she, you know, here's a clip from the show. And so she started to do that. And she's kind of learned through osmosis about like the basics of using

and interacting with Bitcoin. And she does these kinds of, clips and then I also I pay her in Bitcoin for for doing the work and then she goes and she like pays you know for whatever and converts and and has her own wallet and everything so she's she's getting it but she went to her first Bitcoin event last October in in Charlotte for hoddlewine it was a sudden miss that one yeah it was fun it was a lot of fun in the Halloween party and everything that they did and there's a day of talks and everything guy swan was there It was a good time.

I really enjoyed it. It was very like an intimate event, like 100 and something people. Like it was very like tight knit. It was awesome. And she had a lot of fun. And she, I think going to that, she was like, wow, I didn't realize that I was going to enjoy the people so much. But also there's a lot of, you know, there's a bunch of girls there, too, where she was

talking with. and they were like kind of those like traditional family values and and it's almost like that mentality has become like a a how do I even say it it's it's it's it's almost like it's a dirty word to say like, oh, I want to go have like a, you know, traditional family like work. You know, somebody, one person goes and works and the other person works from home. And, and, you know, like, she's gone. She's, she's got a career.

She's a nurse. She actually works postpartum with newborn babies and everything. She's been doing that for a decade and everything. But also, we've got two kids. And she wants to spend a lot of time with them. So she's kind of like pared down the amount of work that she's doing. but this conversation comes up often of how do you live on a single income? This was the norm.

Yeah, this was the norm before where a single person could go and be, you know, the breadwinner for a family, go out and work and somebody could stay home and raise the children in an environment where, you know, your values are bestowed upon your kids and it's not somebody else that, you know, you have no idea what is being kind of instilled in them throughout the day. And so that has kind of gone away. And it's not just like, you know, people, people go off and they do their jobs and the other responsibilities of having a family and having a home and everything are taken care of because of

the leaps forward and technology that we've enjoyed. No, all of those things still fall to those same two people. to and in some cases one person to deal with all of that and that's it's crazy and so the thing that I'm most excited about in and around your reason is that one you're you're you're mentioning and recognizing the the fiat dissolution of of kind of the the typical family unit in an economic sense it's it's a forced economic reality that you can no longer, if you choose to have a single breadwinner and have somebody that is home being able to take care of the children exclusively, you know, and if somebody chooses to

live a different way, I have nothing against that, but it's the fact that that kind of that choice was taken from us. Yeah, that choice was taken. It's no longer a financial reality for most people. Yeah. So, and the second thing. is that we have people yourself, my wife, the people that my wife met at in Charlotte, where she started to clue in and be like, oh, geez, this is actually a problem. And I'm recognizing the root of the problem,

the people that are most affected and forced into a different way of living. Not by choice. Again, like it's totally different if somebody wants to go out and they're like, you know what, you know, I don't want to stay home. I want to go. I want to have a career. Totally different. But if you're a person that was like, you know what, I would love to stay home and focus

on the kids and, you know, have my husband go out and work or vice versa. If you're a person like that, you know, recognizing the root of that problem, where did this come from? Was it the evil companies that did it all? No, it's something he got to go deeper. and it's the money is broken. And at the core of it, the, as say like a regular blue collar worker, the root of it, you're placed in a position where you enter into an employment contract at a set rate.

And you say, my time is valued at X number of units per hour, whatever your local currency is. However, that contract is null and void with inside of a year. If you're in a good Western nation that doesn't have a ton of inflation, inside of a year, you're already looking at five to 10 percent of that being basically dissolved the way. So you said my time is worth X amount. Well, next year, it's worth less. That contract you entered into where you said my time is worth this. Yeah, well, it doesn't count anymore.

And a few years down the road, you know, it's very quick before your time is effectively cut in half the value that you understood and entered into that contract with. And so I think what I love about what you brought up is that you've honed in on the problem, the cause of the problem, and you're utilizing the situation to, you're utilizing the situation and the hardship to funnel your effort into correcting that societal imbalance. You could be like, you know, I'm going to get a shit job. And I guess this is just how it is. It's like, no, Bitcoin is the solution. Let's fix that so that this doesn't suck as much for everybody in the future. Yeah.

Well, and honestly, again, this is where like I'm sorry to feminists everywhere. I really am. But like there's a lot of maybe I'm just in the news funnel too frequently. There's a lot of complaining about problems right now. Lots of people are yelling about what they're unhappy with. Lots of people calling for solutions. The solution is literally here. Like we have that solution where it's there for the taking. Pick it up. Start working in Bitcoin. Start adopting Bitcoin. Start participating in the circular economy. That to me is the only exit path to this. this road we're all on right now. And yeah, honestly, it's, I don't care if it fixes my problem. Like, I'm hopeful that Bitcoin will afford me the right to homeschool my son when he's of school age. So Jordan, I might be hitting you up to find out those homeschooling resources. Because I'm a huge proponent of what you said about, I don't remember which one of you

said it. I'm sorry, about maintaining those values of our family. We have very specific values that don't necessarily align with. what school system, our physical location, would happen to have us enroll our children in. And that to me is a really big if that I'm not really willing to just leave up to chance. Obviously, we can go private school, we can look at Catholic schools, we can look at public school system, whatever have you. But there's no sure solution like homeschooling for knowing that I'm raising my son and we're raising our children with the values that we hold closest to us as a family.

there's a that's a fantastic point so my my wife homeschools are three older we have four so my wife homeschools are three oldest and then our youngest one is two and a half so he's like running around following you know see what everybody's into i'm sure that's a super calm environment is cool yes yes exactly then i'm like this is i'm in my walk-in closet like this is my office so like occasionally you know one of the kids needs of talking to so they come on in here and you know so we working from home is a blessing um i think there's a couple of things so one of the things that you're that we're talking about is that we have, we're not able to have anywhere near as much this today is like the idea of like a,

of a productive household. The reason why we invited this guy, C.R. Wiley, to come and speak at the Bitcoin Conference. He is a Bitcoiner, but he's not like some super, you know, one of the more well-known bitcoins. But he has written a number of books about this exact concept. So he wrote a book called The Household and the War for the Cosmos. It's just basically talking about how, you know, throughout most of human history, you'd have a productive household.

It wasn't, it wasn't dad leaving for the day and then, you know, mom stays home with the kids. Like, that's the, that's the trope. And it's been true of, you know, the United States and probably Europe to a lesser degree as a result of like the Industrial Revolution. But throughout most of human history, you'd have mom and dad working together and, you know, with the kids. The kids, like kids were seen as valuable because they were more, they helped you be more productive. And so you had, you know, you had kids who were not problem causers. They were problem solvers. And so this is why you had bigger families. This is why you had these kind of things. And so I just think like, you know, getting back to this, you know, just getting back to this idea and like being thoughtful and intentional about what were the decisions that you're making and why I think is a humongous reason why Bitcoin is valuable.

One of the things that I talk with people about is that I benefited from having a stay at home mom. You know, like my parents made, I mean, my dad worked for a Christian nonprofit organization. And I mean, I want to say I'm like out of him here. I think that for the vast majority of my growing up, my parents were making, my dad was making like $35,000, $40,000 a year. So like, I mean, just like not a lot. And my mom would take odd jobs here and there. But by and large, I had the, I had the privilege of having a mom who was in my life and who, you know, cared about me. had time to invest in me. And the result, like you're saying, Lana, like the result of just the money getting more and more worthless, you know, right now, what that means is that if, if mom has to go, if I'm, if I were to grow up today, my mom would have to go get a job. That means there's somebody else who is raising me and somebody else who's, you know, teaching me to see the world and in teaching me what to value. And, you know, a large, for a large number of people, that's the state, you know, via public schools or,

that's in the best case scenario, that's other family members. But just the incentive alignment, the farther that you get away from, you know, people who are from your parents, who's their likelihood is, they are the most, in most cases, there are abuses. But like they're, in most cases, the incentive alignment is most aligned, the closer that you are, you know, closer with parents with kids or whatever. So this is, there's a quote that that homeschool family who's doing, it's a homeschool couple.

gosh, Scott is his name. It's horrible that I can't remember his last name. But one of the things, they have this quote, which is self-custody your kids. And I just love it. It's just such a great quote of like Bitcoiners appreciate the, you know, the importance of self-custodying their Bitcoin. But when you think about the reality and the downstream effects of where, you know, who you give, who you give permission to educate your kids and shape how they see the world. And when you think about the consequences that that's even just purely the effects that it's going to have in your own life, ideally your kids are going to be part of who's taking care of you, the older that you get.

And so you want to be just really careful and be a good steward of the resources that are your kids, both for their own benefit and then for years down the road. So I just think both those are just phenomenal points. Yeah. I love that. Okay, a couple things. I'm kind of like looking at the chat here and everything. Okay, so again, in and around the family stuff, I guess I'll all address that first.

Yeah, I mean, there's there's, you're right, a lot of people, I feel like there's more tension between kids and parents now than, you know, if you go back, you know, X number of decades. And that's because, again, the incentives around the schooling system, especially now, I'm horrified. Like I had my daughter, you know, she's part of like a Montessori program. I don't know if you guys have those in the U.S. All about Montessori. That's how we're raising our son as well. Yeah. So she's been in that.

You know, she's just finishing kindergarten this year. but unfortunately again like with cost and everything like she she's delving into the public school system next year yeah i'm i'm horrified i don't know what to expect i mean i you know i guess i went through the catholic schooling system but like you know it's different shades of the same and so you know i think of the knowledge base that i had when I left school and I was prepared for nothing, like literally nothing. And I, I worry that that the same will be true of my kids. And so like we're we're trying to rectify the fact, you know, to Lana's point of

like how you've got you got to have two incomes more or less in order to make it work right now unless you're like lucky enough to be in a position where you know that's working out. And we're, you know, we're doing okay to the point where like my wife can work less. Yeah. But it's it's not like I can just be by myself and, you know, without like making major changes to our life. And so I don't know, like supplemental, you know, after school stuff, trying to try to add in different things, trying to, you know, take every moment that you can to, trying to instill your values in your kids and make them have independent thought is kind of the more important thing I think is is you know ask questions and and and question the why of of the world

that you live in don't just like take it take it at face value and say this is how it is yeah I think that's that's important um I I think growing up just just inherently growing up in a Bitcoin household as again people that aren't in Bitcoin just wouldn't again to George's point earlier it's going to sound cringe to anybody who's not in a Bitcoin but I feel like growing up in a household

that questions why society runs the way it is that through osmosis you know comes out in your kids and they start to ask well why why does it work that way and why couldn't it be something different and so yeah I I

I think we've got a whole generation of kids that are going to come up. Number one, all of our kids, I have never lived in a world in which Bitcoin didn't exist. And that's insane. That's so cool. That is a cool thing. And so now it's just making sure us as parents communicate the why. Why was this even necessary to create? And if we can bestow that upon.

upon our kids and more and more kids start to see that. And then society as a whole starts to see, well, you know, why is a certain sect of society seeming to lead better, happier lives that are not as like fraught with, with, you know, so much heartbreak or whatever it may be or or financial hardship or so and so forth? why what is the difference it appears they're on different systems um yeah the other thing i wanted to mention you were talking about a a a a game earlier on that was you jordan right yes that was me was it hoddle it i think he hoddle it uh designer uh fungi limited uh they mentioned it chris Chris Alamo said it in the chat. And he also said it was from Scott and Talley. Yes, it's Scott and Talley.

That's it. Okay, Scott Talley. Yeah. So I'm trying to like look up. Chris, if you're watching and you got a website, drop it there. I don't know if it'll like you.

I can't remember Scott. I'm like, Twitter's search is awful. It's so bad now. Because I just used to, you used to be able to just plug in the, you know, first name and I can just pop it right up.

But it's, Scott something. Talley's his wife. Yeah, they're phenomenal. The game is great. I've heard people, like, say they loved it. So I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to take a look at it.

But yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it looks interesting. I'm going to have to play with it. And I'll, I'll ask Chris and I'll bring it up. Maybe I'll get the creators on at some point. But yeah, anyways, um, I think obviously David had, uh, uh, connection issues or he got to his destination.

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully. But either way, we're going to start rounding it out. There's a certain way I like to usually wrap up episodes. And the way I usually do that is we'll just do a quick round of one, any final thoughts that you may have in and around the episode, anything you wanted to get off your chest that you didn't get to touch on. Feel free to throw that out there. But also, I like to ask guests to throw out a recommendation. And the recommendation can literally be anything.

So it could be, you know, something that you watched or read. So like a book, a blog post, a video, a whatever it may be. You could also be like an application or a website or a device, a hardware device, something like that. Or it could be just like a general life lesson that you've kind of learned over the years that you think mentioning it to people watching would benefit them in their Bitcoin journey. So I'll start to give you guys some time to think, given I just threw that on you. Yeah, so final thoughts. I think my general thought from this conversation is that

regardless of your walk of life and your beliefs, Bitcoin is kind of like a great unifier because the benefits are so applicable to so many different people, I dare I say to everyone, maybe not central bankers. But outside, unless you are running a central bank, it is very likely that Bitcoin could benefit you to. And so I think it's one of the great unifying technologies of our generation, if not many generations.

And so I'm very excited to see that play out because just speaking from myself, it's taken a stance that I grew up with having like a degree of animosity towards religion. Just because, I don't know, teenage years and I went to Catholic school and whatever. And also like that, you know, I grew up in a mindset of, you know, and it's since shifted politically since then. But I grew up in a mindset of all those damn conservatives are going to censor everything. I want to be able to see and think what I want. You know, now it's totally opposite of the spectrum. Consensorship happy ones.

But nonetheless, like I think, you know, people should be able to see and understand and, you know, kind of form their own views of the world and live as they see fit. And, you know, I'm kind of a libertarian in that sense. So my main point is, again, Bitcoin has taken me to a place where, I don't view it as like this camp of beliefs, this camp of beliefs. It's more kind of the ability to live your life freely without somebody stepping in the way, as long as you're not ruining somebody else's life in the process. And so I have a newfound appreciation for people that, you know, live by whatever their moral code is.

and they say, you know, these things are important to me. I'd like to, I'd like to exude them in my day-to-day life. And so, yeah, it has taken an entire group of people on the planet to me where I would have had like some preconceived notion. And now I'm much more appreciative of people that I meet day to day. And so I think this phenomenon is not unique to myself. And I think it will continue to proliferate. So that's my main takeaway.

Terms of recommendations, I guess I'll just call back to my original topic. If you've not dabbled into Bitcoin mining, what better time? Go ahead. There's again, check the YouTube channel. There's a video tutorial. and you can get an S-9 for cheap and you can learn. And if you use it for nothing other than learning, fantastic. If you live in a colder place and you're going to use it as a space heater, even better.

But learn. Partake in the network. It's a whole other level to being a bitwiner. And even if you don't do it permanently, understanding that part of Bitcoin is important, in my opinion. And you can always grab the S9, not grab the enclosure, learn a little bit, and then resell it to somebody for 100 bucks or something. So there's not a lot to lose there, and there's plenty of knowledge to gain. So dive in, just look up the S9 space heater tutorial that I just dropped and learn

and become a better educated Bitcoin. So I'll leave that there. Jordan, I'll toss it to you. Final thoughts, recommendations, take it away. Yeah, man, a couple things. Basically, one of the things that I would say is just one of the things that, again, it being Good Friday, one of things that I just, I think about, that's, it's the example of, so, you know, Jesus dies for the sins of the world. This is the, this is the story. So he, he dies for Rhebill's sins.

So he basically lays down his rights, lays down, he could live this easily. He didn't need to, you know, he didn't need to come and do what he did. But he lays down his rights so that other people can can have a benefit that they want. weren't going to have otherwise. And so when I think about that, I think about, I think about Bitcoin. It makes me think about, it makes me think about more than Bitcoin, but I think about Bitcoin. And one of the things that I see within this community are people who are, I see, actually, Ben, you are one of the people who I think most about this. Like, you're somebody who, you know, you create resources for people who do not understand Bitcoin to understand Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is hard to understand on a lot of fronts. And you make these videos to make, understanding these concepts and tools and all these different things easier and more approachable for people who are new. And I just think like this is this is the, this is the, it's, um, it's one, it's one example of, of humility and it's an example of, um, just maturity to, to try to live your life in such a way that, you know, you're living for the, for the benefit of other people and trying to figure out how can I, how can I help the people who are around me understand and reconcile with the difficult things that are in their life. If it's something like understanding Bitcoin, if it's something like, you know, whatever it is in your life, there's all

kinds of people who are going through unimaginably difficult things in their families and whatever it is. And I just think that it's one, it's one element of being involved in Bitcoin that I just, I appreciate. I see these people, again, again, in the case of people who are working within Bitcoin, there is a monetary incentive. But I've seen plenty of people within the Bitcoin community do things that don't make monetary sense. You know, give lots of time to explain issues for free, you know, on Twitter. And I just think that's just something I just, the more I'm in this community, I just really appreciate that aspect. I think one other element that's closely tied to that is the element of humility, the humility that Bitcoin, Bitcoin,

forces you to be humble because it forces you to realize that you don't understand the world as well as you think you do. You know, there's if if if if we could be that this happened this this, this conception or this question has came to my mind multiple times is if I could be so wrong about money for so much of my life, what else is in my life that I'm wrong about? But I'm so confident that I understand. You know, what are these other things in my life that are like this? because of the way I've been raised or the way I haven't been raised or, you know, the people I've surrounded myself with, you know, I think about fiat. Like, fiat is so, so damaged and altered how I see the world that relates to money,

how I, you know, when you see political issues differently, because once you understand how money touches everything else, you recognize that all it takes is a couple degree turn. It's like playing golf. You know, you can have a shot that as soon as it hits the ball, as soon as the club hits the ball, they look very similar side by side. It might only be one degree difference, you know, in terms of the trajectory. But when you extrapolate that out a couple hundred feet, the two balls are completely, you know, far apart.

And so I just think that, it's a, it's a great, one of the greatest elements of it is it forces you to reconsider your biases and reconsider things that you thought you knew and thought you were certain about. So I think those would be the, the two lessons. In terms of just last things that I would want to mention, tools, you mentioned like something, neither are a website. Actually, I found that website. It's freemarketkids.com. Go check out the resources that they have there. They actually have Thank God for Bitcoin on their website. So, I think you can pick up a copy there. I actually just sent them a box of books the other day.

But yeah, there's Hoddle Up is the name of the game. And you've got a bunch of different, just, you know, like iteration. of the game. But that's one thing. Another one is mutiny wallet. Paul Miller and Tony Georgio and who is the other one? Do you know offhand, Ben, who's the other one? I can't remember I was looking at it the other day.

And I signed up. And there's one more person, but they did mutiny wallet. And this is a wallet that has, it's a privacy focused wallet. but it has coin join built into it. I saw that. I was like, how has no one done this yet? Like that is such a fantastic

or maybe just maybe there are some others that I'm just not aware of. But yeah, so I'm just super excited and thankful for Paul. Paul's been a great friend, thankful for him and excited for his new project. The last thing on my front, I just wanted to say thank you

and just point out that for the thank you for Bitcoin conference. We have Swan is going to be, Swan Bitcoin is sponsoring that conference. Start 9, who's sponsoring your show, is the sponsor in that conference. Fetty, Justin Moon and those guys are going to be sponsoring the conference. Crypto tax audit helping us get our taxes in order this time of year. They're going to be sponsored. Crowd Health.

Andy's become a good friend, Ibex from El Salvador and then Estecco as well. Akeen. So Beautyon is going to be speaking at the conference as well. So he's both loved and. hated slash not sure people aren't sure what to think about on Twitter a lot of times but he had a had a conversation with him and he's a great guy so as tech is going to be sponsoring as well so just super thankful for those guys these bitcoin companies making making our event possible so I love it I love it also to touch on mutiny wallet here I love that the example wallet that they have here activity

they have an out transaction for Bitcoin beefsteak yeah I love it they know their audience yeah Exactly. That's fantastic. Beauty on, yeah, he's an interesting one. I mean, to be honest, if you're a person where you garner equal amounts of praise and hate from the same people, you're probably somewhere in a good range where you're willing to, like, question the current narrative, but you're not, you know, you're also, you're probably somewhere safely along the line. That's reasonable. So yeah. Anyways, awesome. Well, thanks for that. Lana, I'm going to toss it to you as well. Final thoughts, recommendations take it away. Sure. So final thought. Mostly this is from when I visit the Normie world with like my friends that aren't yet orange-pilled. We're all humans. We're all on the same playing field. Don't like don't let traditional media convince you that everyone is against you. Everyone is bad. Everyone is. Everyone is.

is fighting. I feel like there's just so much animosity and so much conflict that is completely orchestrated by media narratives. And we don't need to be fighting one another. Like we're all struggling under a fiat system at different capacities. We're all looking for the right ways to be happy to raise families, to just live a healthy life, a long life, contribute to society. So my my lesson is just tune out of all of the negative, the news cycle sometimes. Touch grass. Get fresh air. Hug friends.

Tell your loved ones that you love, love them. And not to sound super like hippie, but just try to be more present on a human level without constantly having to turn to politics, constantly having to feel like you have to pick aside. And I think the beauty of Bitcoin, it's been touched on before, is you don't have to pick aside. Bitcoin is for everyone. There's benefits for everyone.

So just kind of try to remind yourself like there's there's only so much need for real conflict. And it's being shoved in our faces from a lot of different places and a lot of different channels. And just do your best to just check out of that sometimes. Yeah. Divide and conquer is the tactic. And you you conquer that by unifying, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And if you if you kind of peel away these, all the forces to like, we're forced to pick sides politically. There's so many different things that I feel like I have to pick certain labels for. Even religious and non, if you peel away all of those different layers, there's so much more common ground than you can actually just see at a surface level. So just try to do that. And so that's my lesson.

And then my recommendation, two, and one is a shill, one isn't. For alternatives to media, obviously Bitcoin magazine is censorship resistant. And I'm really thankful that there's a media outlet that there's so many media outlets in Bitcoin, truly. Like you put out great content. Anyone with a vision and something to say and something to contribute, there's platforms to be able to express alternative viewpoints, say the things like Vodian, saying the things that sometimes we don't even want to hear. So just look into alternative media, look into alternative news sources.

Bitcoiners are putting so much good content out there. It's free. Most of it, it's available to the masses. So just do some research. We're all already on the internet already. So just look at other alternative sources for getting your news and your content. And then obviously come meet me at the Bitcoin conference. It's going to be epic.

And if you don't, I want to hear from people that don't already care about Bitcoin or don't already know about Bitcoin. I'm doing some personal work with the rest of my team to put out a lot of content and put it a lot of value into this conference that isn't built for Bitcoiners. Obviously, there's going to be a ton of Bitcoin content, but obviously we're in a bear market. Last year was super celebratory. Last year was like, hey, y'all, we're doing it.

Look at all-time highs. We're riding the wave. This year's different. We're looking at, like, okay, who's still standing? Are we okay? Are you okay? Checking in and leveraging, like, this is the time. to be building. We're talking to builders. There's going to be builders. There's many people that are

just looking for jobs in the space with all the layoffs, with all of the economy shaking out the way that it is. So this conference is built for this market. And I'm super excited to talk to people that have never heard of that coin before and are just trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. It's going to be a blast to see everybody again. And it's such a great gathering of people. And like, Bitcoiners are good at honing in on the signal. And, you know, bull markets, there can be a lot of noise that happens. Bear markets are a unique opportunity.

And my first time attending one of these conferences was Bear Market, 2019. Yeah, so you know. Yeah. And it was great. And it was the first event that I attended. where it was it was bitcoin focused it was the first time that I heard the word shitcoin uttered in public unapologetically live on stage such a fantastic word it's so perfect I like I walk back to I walk past the conversation and somebody was like yeah anyways

all these shit coins and everything I was like wait we can say that here I was like wow that was regular conversation. They didn't, they didn't even say, I mean, I'm a Canadian. So I was like, they didn't even say sorry for saying that. So. But nonetheless. Ben, do you have a, do you have a coupon code for, for the Bitcoin conference? You have like a?

I do. Yes. BTC sessions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't remember. Yeah.

Big shout to Mike Germano. We met last year and hung out. I'm looking forward to seeing him again. And yeah, shout to CK. K retweeted the link to the show. Yes. I'm trying to think of other. Those are the only other Bitcoin mag people I saw, but I appreciate it.

There's Brandon. There's Rizzo. There's Christmas. There's George McHale. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. George was on a couple weeks ago.

So yeah, I was just glad to happen. I hope that I get to, like I would love for both of you and David to, to meet my wife. She's coming down with me. No way. That's awesome.

Yeah. So it's going to be, we're going to be in Miami for a, week. Very excited, but she's coming out to all the stuff. We're going to the pleb party. We're going to a cocktail thing. We're going to the after party.

She's going to be hitting up all the events with me. So, again, I hope this experience for her is much like it was in Charlotte where she meets and gravitates towards people. And she's like, you know, she's, she gets it. And she just, she's like, I don't know. I feel out of my element. I feel like she's going to get there. she's going to have a blast because, again, like, I feel like just in terms of values and everything,

she's going to identify very closely with a lot of people there. So, yeah, she absolutely will. And also, I don't know if your wife is on Twitter, but if she is, maybe have her DM me because I think there's also a couple of things I can point her to by way of programming and things that might help her feel, like, find her way and feel a little bit more included. She is. Actually, anybody watching, she's at Mrs. Sessions. Right.

Love it. So yeah. Since she's clipping up the show, she needs to be able to like follow and get Twitter handles and everything. So she's been poking around. But she'll be probably when she comes to the conference, she'll probably start like actually actively posting. Oh, I'm here.

I met this person and so and so forth. So yeah. So anyways, if you're looking for at Mrs. Sessions and it's funny. As soon as I told people she was on Twitter, She had like 500 followers in like an afternoon, which was hilarious. But anyways, I want to thank the both of you and also hat tip to David for joining in earlier.

And thank you guys so much for being here. This was a fantastic conversation. I really enjoyed all of your company. And you're welcome back anytime. I can't wait to see you both in Miami. Likewise. Thank you for having me. Shout out to Alex McShane for sorry, if you can hear my child in the background,

trying to get in. He knows step for five. But shout out to Alex McShane for being gracious enough to offer me his spot when he had a last minute engagement. So appreciate being able to slide in. He had to teach guys to choke each other out. So we just worked out well. I appreciate you, Ben. Thank you for what you do. Appreciate it.

It was great to meet you, Lana. Looking forward to meeting you guys in Miami. Likewise. See you guys in Miami. Thanks. Awesome. Thank you both. I'll see you soon.

Bye. All right. Everybody, thank you so much for being here, for watching, for partaking in the chat. Always appreciated. Again, loved everybody on the show. David, I hope you got to your destination safely. And you just had to duck out a little bit early. Jordan, Lana, much appreciated. Again, what a fantastic conversation. Everybody in the chat, thank you for being here the whole time, Narwhal. Lana. Knocked it out. Yes, absolutely. Anyways, of course, guys, thank you for being here. I'm going to reiterate it again. If you're intimidated by mining, honestly, again, it was my first time trying out mining. I had no idea what I was doing. It is possible you can get a cheap unit and just learn.

Again, even if you end up saying, I'm not going to do this all the time. It's too hot where I live. Just resell it. again, these things like, if you're not holding it on onto it for too long, use it as a learning tool and then, you know,

pass it on to the next person. You'll be able to do that, no problem. But I do recommend that everybody kind of get a little bit of mining knowledge. I don't know why I was intimidated for so long. It's not that difficult. And just play and learn.

Again, please do like, sub, share, All those things, they help a ton in getting more viewers on the channel. Of course, you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors in the show notes down below. Hoddle, hallo for those non-KYC sats. Coin Kite for securing your non-KYC sats, Nunchuk for your inheritance planning and assisted multisig, if you so choose.

And start nine for running your full Bitcoin stack and your sovereign computing. We were talking a bunch about Miami. there's going to be a ton of stuff. Be sure to check out, again, if it speaks to you, go check out, thank God for Bitcoin. Again, the quality of people there, I mean, looking at that list of speakers, those guys are awesome. So they're fantastic. TG, I always have to think through the acronym in my head, TGFB.com. Go from there.

Anyways, if you're looking to still get tickets to the conference in Miami, by the way, travel restrictions lifted, if that was a factor for you, no longer you can get down to Miami right away. Well, mail, Ameth, you can get down there. Don't jump the gun too early. But you can make it well in time for the conference. B.TC slash conference ticket prices go up. I'm looking at the ticker now in four hours and 46 minutes and 21, 20, 19 seconds. Anyways, tickets go up at regular intervals in price.

So if you're looking to get tickets, sooner is better than later. If you're unsure if you can attend your kind of 50-50, you can grab tickets now and resell later. It shouldn't be a problem given that prices go up from here on in. You can sell them for what you get now and not have a risk of losing the ticket price. but also you can use code BTC sessions. You will get 10% off the ticket price, which is also helpful as well.

Side note, I am, of course, doing my cold card deep dive workshop that is happening the day before industry day. So that will be Wednesday, May 17th from 1 to 5 p.m. And what the event is is effectively, whether you've never touched a cold card, you're relatively new to cold card,

or you want to get into the advanced features of Bitcoin, it will apply to you across the board. The idea is we're going to get in the room four hours long. We're going to start from the basics, set it up, use it, do your first air-gapped Bitcoin transaction. If you don't know what that is, you're in for a treat. Then we're going to make sure you back up things properly. We're going to wipe the device.

We're going to restore it from scratch. We're going to do all of that. And then we're going to dive into the advanced features. We're going to teach you about all of the crazy things that the cold card can do, which is a lot. There's a ton. So anyways, you can head to my website to grab the tickets. You can both grab tickets. And if you need a cold card and all the peripherals for that, you can also grab those there on the website too.

It's all down here on the main website. So you can just go to bTCSessions.ca. and over on the right-hand side, there's a little thing that says in-person workshops. It will be listed there. You can grab tickets. It'll direct you to the right place. You can also book me for one-on-one session.

So all the free online tutorials, by the way, never feel pressured to send me sats. You can always get all of the education you need for 100% free on my YouTube channel. So if you're capable of just following along with the tutorial, it's all there. you can just everything free. I think that's important.

It's incredibly important that people are able to educate themselves and they don't have to spend money. However, if you're a person and you're like, I need some additional hand holding. I would love Ben to hold my hand lovingly and look down with a loving gaze and nod in approval as I properly execute the backup to my cold card wallet. I will gladly do that for you and beyond, you know,

whether it be privacy or setting up a note or whatever you need. Anyways, you can book that through the website as well, BTCSessions.ca. There's a private sessions section as well. There's also a getting started section. So if you have newbies that are like, where do I even start? Great. Go to getting started. And I don't usually show this on the show, but there's a ton of stuff here.

It starts you off with some good books to read, where to get Bitcoin very simply, including non-KYC options, Bitcoin wallets that are basics to get started up, securing your Bitcoin with various hardware wallets and my, you know, my favorites mentioned as well. Spending your Bitcoin, again, running a node. It basically runs the gamut from beginner to like hardened Bitcoiner all the way through. So again, you can go through that that is on BTCSessions.com, the getting started section. And again, send that to your friends. There.

There's your free Bitcoin education. Anyways, I'm going to wrap it there. Thank you guys so much for being a part of the show. Of course, like, sub, share, hit the sponsors, any of the stuff that I mentioned before, hit the conference. I can't wait to see you. Please, if you see me there, look for the beacon. Look for the bright, shiny thing on my head.

You will find me and just come up and say hello because I got to say I, at the last conference, I teared up multiple times, unbeknownst to the people who approached me. But I had so many people come up to me and say, like, hey, man, like you really change the course of my life or you, you taught me so much. And, you know, I would keep a straight face during the conversation that I walk away. And I'd literally be kind of tearing up a little bit because it means so much to have people come up and chat and say that they learn something is a very important thing. And thank you to those of you that did. And I hope to meet even more of you down in Miami. Thank you for that.

Anyways, I'm going to wrap it up here. If you really liked what you saw, you can always drop a Bitcoin tip on my strike page. You don't need to strike to use it. Strike.combe slash BTC sessions. Go there, type in any amount you want. Tip button, you'll see a lightning invoice or if you tap to the right, a Bitcoin QR code.

With that, I am out. Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. I'll see you guys next time for your daily session.