BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Justin Rhedrick, Jessica Hodlr, Andrew Begin ep351

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

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What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the show, another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? Killer panel this week. A couple newcomers and a returning guest who also happens to be the most dangerous woman in Bitcoin. So we'll have them all in here momentarily. But it should be a good time. Of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The fucking thing sucks. If you have not already, like, subscribe, share, all those things. They help a ton getting this content in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a quick look at where we are in the market right now. is timechain calendar.com. We're sitting at $30,472 per coin.

A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 3,282 sats. In terms of fees right now, lowest I've seen them in a while, even though the Mempool is still backlogged by like nearly a gig, 10 sats per byte across the board. Purging anything just below five sats per bite. I guess people are thinking twice about how much they're willing to pay about sticking some JPEGs on the blockchain today. Anyways, in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.42 million Bitcoin have been mined.

That is 92.46 million of them. Shout out to sponsors of the show, hoddlehottle.com. If you're stacking SaaS and you've got a few priorities in mind like peer-to-peer trading, instant self-custody, no KYC, this is the place to go. You can sign up in minutes with nothing more than the email address, choose your currency, your payment method, and your amount and start viewing offers right away. You can start stacking non-KYC sats. They also have a lending platform in which nothing is ever re-hypothigated.

You can check them out. Again, links are in these show notes down below. Now, when you do stack some non-KyC sats, you're going to want to secure them and some of the best hardware on the market. I love CoinKite. I can think of no better person or group to go to for your hardware needs than CoinKite. The cold card is amazing. I use it religiously.

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And with that, I'm going to stop my rambling here. I've got to get all my friends in. So please do welcome to the stage, Andrew and Justin and the most dangerous woman I've ever met in my entire life, Jessica. Welcome, all of you. Thank you for being here. a quick round of intros before we get things rolling. I'll toss it to Andrew first. Dude, can you give yourself a little intro? Who are you? What do you do? What's up? I'm Andrew. I'm a

Bitcoiner. I like Bitcoin. I work at Galloy. We build open source Bitcoin banking infrastructure. One of the products that we built is Blink, which is formerly known as Bitcoin Beach Wallet, was built on the ground in Al-Azante in 2020 and kind of helped the Bitcoin Beach project to build that circular economy and as recently, really, you know, with the rename, rebrand to blink and a lot of new features is starting to get picked up and used around the world. And so I'm super excited to be here. Lastly, Rhode Island Bitcoins at Rhode Island Bitcoins on Twitter. I started that group about a year ago. We're small but mighty group in the smallest state in the country. So yeah, super stoked to be here. Cheers. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming, man. And you were gracious enough to step in.

we had a guest that that could make it and you were you were quick to the trigger to say i'll jump in so uh i'm bullish this week for sure yeah yeah i'm glad i could have you so uh thanks for coming man and side note uh i did do a video on blink um month month and a half ago something like that um lots of lots of awesome features in it so uh kudos on what you guys built there so yeah awesome um let's toss it down to Justin dude uh good to see you again we we got to meet in in Osla's of all places. And now you're on the show. So let people know

who you are, what you do. Well, I'm Justin Redrick. And before I go into that, Ben, that had to be the greatest intro I've ever seen. You just gave me a gym for a while I got to download. So shout out the nunchuck for that. But I'm Justin Redrick. I'm the author

from Barr's the Bitcoin. And I'm executive director of the Bitcoin Transformation Community. And I'll share a little bit of I'll share a little bit more about that when we ask why we're bullish on Bitcoin. But I mean, I'm bullish because I got to meet Ben in Oslo. And it was probably one of the warmest connections I had. And oh, yeah, shout out to Bitcoin Charlotte.

They love you, Ben. So, hey, shout out to Bitcoin Charlotte. And I'm going to pass the mic so we can keep it going. But I'm glad to be here. Awesome. Glad to have you, man. And Jessica, I'm glad you could take time away from your busy schedule from planning your next violent

extricade. How are you? How's it going? I'm doing great. I'm Jessica. I'm the CEO of Plamey Passport. We help Bitcoiners to obtain a second passport in jurisdictions that benefit them specifically. And

besides that, I'm a professional ship poster on Twitter. Now have acclaimed the most dangerous one. You have them jumping down your throat there for a while. I'm glad. Has that kind of subsided? You don't have as many crazies after you right now?

Yeah, no, no more crazies as of now. But until I piss them off the next time. Well, the night is young. We'll see. All right. Well, thank you all so much for coming. This should be a fun one. Anybody that's watching right now, this is why are we bullish?

And if you're unfamiliar, there's pretty much a flow to the show. The idea is each one of us has come with a reason why we're currently. excited why we're bullish in around Bitcoin. And it's rarely ever about price sometimes, but oftentimes it's just something that we're excited about, whether it be a personal experience, an application, something we've read, something in the news, something we're working on. And so we get to basically tell our stories, what we're currently buzzing about. And so the flow of the show basically is, number one, somebody's going to drop a reason why

they're bullish, a chance to rant and tell us all about it. Number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason, discuss, questions, comments, whatever. And then number three, we're going to rotate until every single person has had their turn. So really simple flow, reason, riff, rotate. And so I'm going to get us started. Now, again, I'm on this new platform, and I think it's kind of fun if I bring in the actual chat. So just so you know, people in the chat right now, starting now, all of your chats will pop up over on the right hand side of the screen. So, yeah, so keep them coming and we'll start to see them come in there.

But I'm going to get us started today with my reason for being bullish. And my reason kind of stems from a bit of news that we saw, you know, over the past week or so, it has to do in and around all the prime trust crap that's going down. And, you know, yet another example of a custodian that was supposed to be responsible. In fact, one of the custodians that was supposed to be most responsible in comparison to the regulations around other ones, just not having people's money again, yet again. And so first I'll kind of outline where they're standing right now. Basically, they're put into receivership. By the way, Prime Trust was custody for a whole. bunch of different firms. Luckily, ones like Strike and Swan were able to like

matrix their way out of that somehow just in the nick of time. But there were others like coin bits that did get caught up in this. I think some others, I'd be kind of just making some guesses or I wouldn't be a, if I started naming names right now, I may not be accurate. So nonetheless, just know that a lot of people got caught up in this. Right now, they're in receivership. It owes its clients north of $85 million in Fiat and only has about $3 million in Fiat currency on hand. And they owe a further nearly $70 million in crypto and has about $68.6 million in crypto on hand. However, the vast majority of that is in some shit coin called audio that's super illiquid.

So like when they go to sell it, there's no way they're going to get, you know, 60 or what, however the tens of millions of dollars that they have worth of it, they're going to tank the price and take a fraction of what they thought they had. So the whole is probably much larger than people imagine. So why am I, why am I bullish about this? I'm bullish about this because, and I'm going to throw this back to a quote or paraphrase a quote I heard from Matt O'Dell.

He was just on Nat Brunel's show recently. And she was asking him about what he thinks, the state of custody is going to be and how Bitcoin will handle this moving forward. And he basically said that he thinks that the path to hyper-bitcoinization is going to be everyone in society getting rugged again and again until they figure out how to properly deal with Bitcoin as a scarce asset and take self-custy and do the proper thing. And so I think, you know, again, we're going to see this more and more. I saw a ton of it back in November when FTX folded for the first time, not for the first time, but like probably the highest volume of people reach out to me to do one-on-ones to learn how to set up their self-custody, to learn how to set up a cold card or another hardware device and actually take custody of their coins.

So I was super busy with that. And I'm seeing it again. I saw another huge wave of it with the ledger option for uploading your keys to the cloud. I'm, you know, I'm, you know, I'm oversimplifying what it is. But nonetheless, people had in mind what they thought their device could do. And then they started to say, well, how do I know it's not currently doing this? And the answer, if it's closed sources, you don't necessarily. So people are starting to think more about how am I storing my coins, am I storing my coins,

are my coins with somebody else? What kind of risk am I okay with? If it's a few bucks, I'm okay with it somewhere. But if it's not a few bucks and it's a meaningful amount, then I want it myself. And everybody's got different thresholds there. But the long and the short of it is that all of these shenanigans very much outlined the need for self-custy for your average person.

they also are going to make probably spur on a lot of changes with entities that do hold Bitcoin, whether it be corporations, whether it be custody solutions for people, whether it be nations. I think the more you see stuff like this or the more they see stuff like this, the more they're going to have to really consider how are they doing that custody? and it can't just be some single-sig BS. Like they've got to have some sort of multi-sig, something going on that eliminates those single points of failure because it's just not good enough to be as irresponsible as people have been.

I'm not saying it's going to stop anytime soon, but enough times it happens, you know, people are going to demand better. And I mean, we do see some of these companies getting away from trusted third parties because prime trust they weren't if i'm not mistaken they weren't even actually holding the crypto it was fire blocks that was holding it for them so there was like an entity with like another layer of of third party risk of counterparty risk on top of it so like that that's a whole other thing in and of itself but now you're starting to see people creating in-house solutions like strike i mean at the end of the day the takeaway is trust no one as it

should be and, you know, calculate your risk accordingly. Again, like, I don't mind having, you know, five bucks on wallet of Satoshi or something from time to time. I don't mind, you know, having, and like, Blink is, is custodial, but like you do that for the, the ease of having a lightning address instantly and everything. But I'm also, I'm not, like, Andrew, I try, you know, I'm sure you're a great guy, but I'm not going to put my life savings on Blink. with a custodian, right? And nor do I think you would advise people to put their entire life savings on a regular basis in a custodial wallet.

And I think people are on that track of learning. There's a whole lot more learning to go. But every time we see something like this, a few people wake up and I see that in my inbox and I see that with the people I talk to. and I see that with people at events that tell me, oh, hey, yo, I used a video and I learned how to, you know, set up a cold card or something like that. And it's great. And it sucks that people have to, you know, touch the hot stove. I see BJ Dictor saying that everybody needs to touch the hot stove.

But, you know, they're touching it. And some will not touch it again, hopefully. So I'm going to open it up. here to you guys and maybe I might toss it over to Andrew given that you know you do work with Galois and you guys have created Blink and everything like that what are your thoughts on kind of the state of the industry with all of these rugs that we've been seeing and how do you factor that into how you talk to people about solutions like Blink and how you guys actually structure what you're doing

Yeah, for sure. I mean, as with my galois hat on, I feel like Dr. Evil, like, you know, come to me because like we're building software for organizations to be their own bank, right? Like, Nicholas, our CEO gave a presentation at adopting Bitcoin last November called the sovereign organization, right? And this idea that like this, everybody in Bitcoin knows the sovereign individual and believes that people should be sovereign. But what about organizations, right? And like, I think that this is where we're heading with, especially. especially like the enterprise grade ruggings, right? And he recently gave a presentation at the, the micro strategy conference, right? And that was be your own bank for corporations, right? So Galloway is building enterprise scale software, enterprise grade software for organizations to bring custody, payments, all this technology in-house, right?

So that's the Gala hat. I'm like that like this is this is bringing our future our vision like I think forward right with blink like blink is an open is an open source custodial lightning wallet right it has a few key use cases one of those use cases is it's a fantastic first lightning wallet and so when you are you know it was again designed in elzante right and the problem that people in elzante had that bitcoin solved was bringing digital payments to people for the first time, right? No bank account, no savings, right? And so custodial lightning wallets do, there are a tool in the toolbox, right? And we advocate self custody, right?

Earn money, move it to self custody, right? And so the other, so that was so one use case is first touch point, right? There's a there's a earn section in the app. I think you actually showed it on the tutorial, right, where it teaches you about Bitcoin and and and we, We've actually written a second version of that that goes even deeper. And you can earn stats for learning about Bitcoin. And so all of us that come to Bitcoin with a thousand hours of research, like it's blasphemy to like let anybody hold any amount of stats for you. Right.

But, but if you're trying to, if you're in Uganda, you know, in Namibia, you know, all these places, you can show someone the power of the lightning network. They go, holy shit. And you go, yeah, you're just getting started and you kick them in the rabbit hole. and then you know what I mean? And then you show them, you know, what you can do. And I'll maybe leave it. I could kind of probably keep going and going, but I want to pass it around a little bit.

Okun, who actually was featured in your demo. So Okun is a guy out of Namibia. And he's been orange-filling people at different restaurants, and he's been working, you know, orange-pilling staff and getting restaurants to accept Bitcoin. And he has this, he has this, there's a picture of him giving a presentation. And the title of the slide is download both wallets.

And it's got Blink on one side and it's got Blue Wallet on the other side. And I'm like, whoa. Like we're all here like beating this shit out of each other about like custodial or not custodial. And he's just like, dude, get both wallets. Like learn like the spectrum and learn what things are good for. And so again, I think Blink is a tool, a really useful one. Yeah.

And to your point, like, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, I think the problem with exchanges is people are, oftentimes people are approaching Bitcoin from a store of value perspective and they're buying Bitcoin and they're like, ah, like now I have Bitcoin, but they don't cross that bridge of like learning that they actually don't have Bitcoin. And that's where BJ, like, I've got a two-year-old daughter and she, I told her like 20 times not to touch the, the pellet stove. One day she touched it. And that was the last time. So like, I'm here. I'm here for it. Like, yeah, 100%. I'll, maybe I'll toss it down.

I mean, either Justin or Jess, whoever wants to jump in first, feel free. Yeah. So, I mean, it's almost like we've seen this before. And it's almost like we have these phrases for a reason. Don't trust, verify, not your keys, not your coins. I think it's inevitable. People learn through experiences. They're just, they're going to get rugged.

You're not going to save everyone. like shit's going to happen and they'll find the light eventually. Yeah. Yeah, it takes a bit of time. Again, like, when you come in and there's easy options and I mean, it doesn't help when you have your first touch point like, you know, dropping into Coinbase and it's just like scrolling marquees of like, buy this, sell this. You've got to have everything readily available here so that you can trade at a drop of

a hat because that's how you're going to make money like that that mentality and that that type of product doesn't necessarily help somebody get on the straight narrow um but i think that'll change uh over time i mean especially especially especially when it's uh especially especially with everything that's happening right now um you you might not have those scrolling marquis anymore so yeah especially when we live in a world of such convenience like you can order something and it can be at your doorstep in a couple of hours, you know, people realizing that they actually have to take some self-responsibility and actually, you know, be in control their own money. That's going to take some getting used to for sure.

It's a hard shift being responsible for a change, I suppose. Justin, what do you think? What's your take on all of these rugs and the lessons being learned? I mean, like I think Odell and everyone here said it best, you got to learn by experience. you got to learn by pain. You know, everybody, majority of people don't know nothing about money anyway. So, and most people will come to Bitcoin with the same mentality of like,

okay, I got to trust somebody else holding it. And, you know, that's the mentality you got to get burned on because you've actually been getting burned this entire time. You just didn't know it. There was no other option. And like I like to say, how do I say it? The worst type of hell is the hell. you don't know you're in. So, you know, with money being less and less every year,

you have all these different type of rug pools as inflation causes, you know, people were so used to it that now you're like, oh my God, I can't get my stuff. And, you know, trying to educate someone who thinks they know everything about nothing in general is like the hardest thing to do. So as a Bitcoin, we just learned to, you know, take a step back and we'll allowed the market to be what it be. So like when Natalie was asking Odell that question, the protocol is already set. It won't go nowhere. It won't change. So the only thing out there is for people to learn the hard way. So no matter how many times we tell them, you know, we got the sayings, the quotes, the memes. You got to learn the hard way regardless.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure we've all had our own experiences with mistakes in one form or another. You know, I've, you know, touched, touched a couple different looking stoves over the years. And, you know, you, it is what it is. It's the, it's, uh, Niko from Simply Bitcoin. He always says it's the price of tuition, right? It is the price of tuition. If it, luckily, if you, maybe went to school a little bit earlier, uh, then, uh, you can avoid some, some much more costly pain down the road. So, yeah. Anyways, with that, uh, I'm going to I'm going to round out that topic and we'll do a little rotation here. Again, shout out to everybody in the chat that is dropping in messages.

Bitcoin Chris wanted you to know, Jess, that you were looking fire tonight. So. So. Yeah. And also the same Bitcoin Chris also lost as Bitcoin's in a boating accident in 2021. So, you know, sorry. Sorry to hear that, Chris. And then shout out to JC.

To a degree, I mean, I suppose I agree. There's a lot of good information out there. So being a victim, stover, otherwise is a choice in 2023. To a degree, if you've been told, I suppose, yeah. You know, some people are just so new that they have no idea. But like, you know, if you've been around the block, then, you know, you might take a step back and go, oh, I was told this so many times. and I know lots of people that were.

So yeah, anyways, let's do our rotation here. And I'm just going to queue up the next reason. Andrew, I'm actually going to send it to you and send a question for you. Why are you bullish? Yeah, I am bullish on bottom-up Bitcoin adoption, specifically circular economies that are popping up all around the world, like almost every week. I mean, it's a passion of mine and part of my job to try and stay on top of it and it's nearly impossible. And just this week, so let me back up.

Many of us, some of us may have heard of Bitcoin Stad. So in the Netherlands, right, they started in like 2014 trying to get merchants, trying to build this like idea of a circular economy, people paying in Bitcoin and buying coffee and paying their, you know, bills and things like that in Bitcoin. And some may have heard of Bitcoin Valley, which did a similar thing back then. Everybody's heard of Bitcoin Beach, right? So started in 2019. And then it started to get interesting. In 2020, 2021, there was like, I kind of call it like the first cohort of like of these projects that were like, they saw Mike Peterson, Chimberra, Jorge, Bitcoin Beach. And they went, I can do that.

And so you have, you know, Bitcoin Lake in Guatemala, Bitcoin. Inakasi in South Africa, Motive in Peru. Did you just switch yourself? I did. Somebody in the comments was like, Ben, the colored tip is on the wrong side. And the block. That was completely, yeah. I was just like got inverted there in my brain for a second.

Andrew just about fell out of his chair. Whoa. Yeah. You have a glitch in the matrix. Go to the glitz in the matrix. Bitcoin Beach, Brazil, so probably Bitcoin. So you had like five projects, right? And they started small and been following them for a while.

And I know these guys. Now you've got like 50 or 60 projects that are in, you know, many different countries in Africa, Uganda, Namibia, South Africa, Ghana. And this week on Wednesday, we said, hey, we all should get together and connect each other. right. Like there should be a community of communities, right? Because this shit is hard, right? Like cold walking into merchants cold and asking them to accept Bitcoin and trying to orange go people and grow something from nothing and bring Bitcoin into a community that may or may not be banked is really difficult. And so we had a call on Wednesday and there was like 45 people there from like probably 35 or 40 different countries. And everybody is just sharing.

lessons, templates, tools, tips. And it's kind of insane to think about because these projects take about a year to really catch steam, right? Because first of all, there's a ton of work to do. And it's difficult to do. Usually you're working with very little money, right, to no money. And so, you know, now you're starting to see the Bitcoin lakes and the Bitcoin jungles and the Bitcoin, you know, start to pop up in Bitcoin magazine and, you know, holding conferences and things like that. But I'm just like, what happens when the tsunami, like, I mean, so I created this graphic called the, you know, the circular economy big bang a month or two ago.

And it's just like, it's blowing my mind. Like what happens when, you know, these, when these projects start to catch some momentum, when people, you know, donate and kind of help what they're doing? And yeah, I'm super bullish on it. I'm bullish on this idea of the circular economy projects working together. and kind of rising all boats. So, yeah. I love this visual.

Like, there's a number of these I had no idea existed. There's some familiar names in there. But I mean, when you see it like this, that kind of, you know, that growth and the number of these communities popping up. And when you think of each little seed and kind of everything growing out from these tiny communities. I mean, when you look at what some of these initiatives have been able to accomplish thus far, I mean, it just plants those, it gives those touch points to little communities around the globe.

And these are the things that are hard to stamp out. It's really easy when you have, and this is where I worry about, you know, things like nation state adoption, especially, in the early stages, it's really easy to villainize a nation and say, oh, well, the, you know, the leader is, is, is just evil and, you know, oh, it's just this country and blah, blah, and, and kind of in the early stages, it's really easy to basically go in and stamp that out early. but when you have these ground up kind of, you know, communities all over the globe and they just begin to to proliferate everywhere, I mean, there's no one person to go to to stop this, right? There's no one organizer to say, okay, no more Bitcoin here, because these people are already making connections amongst themselves.

And I think that you mentioned about circular economies, it's so important to be able to forge those relationships with individuals that you know and trust to be able to, you know, just buy and get the necessities of life, doing things like, you know, getting local food and, and, you know, local people, people maybe that build furniture, whatever you're looking for. those relationships are the ones that can't be stamped out, right? Like people can go and stop online merchants. They can go and stop different things like that, but they can't stop you from going down the street to the farm that you know and picking up a few eggs and paying in sats, right? Like, that's just a hard thing to clamp down upon. So I think seeing more of that is an incredibly bullish thing.

But I'll open it up to that. And where do you want to be when, when if shit hits the fan? You want to be somewhere where they have been planting the seeds of a Bitcoin economy where you can just be there and live on Bitcoin and receive Bitcoin for your products and services. So like, I'm just like, wow, this is the flippinging, right? Like these communities, which, you know, many of which are working with in very simple situations are, will inherit the earth and all of the Bitcoiners and tourism and everything.

So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Justin or Jess, do you guys want to jump in? Yeah, no. I mean, it's honestly, it's such a beautiful thing to see where when there's such a need for something and especially in areas where people can't even say open a bank account where they actually have the ability to have and own their own money and experience this

situation, which they never would have thought that they would have had the opportunity in the first place. So it's really such a beautiful thing to see. I love it. And I mean, with the fact that, you know, CBDCs might be in the future, you know, might want some Bitcoin in your back pocket. Yeah, can't wait to get my Fed coupons for whatever they designate. They're redeemable for.

Yeah, that'll be really a huge improvement to my life, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, I know. Everything I spend on. What are you talking about? I have nothing to hide. Why would I love that? Whatever the state tells me is good for me. Yes.

No, daddy government is everything I could have ever possibly asked for. Yeah. Justin, what's your feel on the kind of ground up, you know, grassroots movements that we're seeing here? I mean, it's necessary because too many people at the top have been fixed in on what it's supposed to work. and you know it's kind of like you can either I guess it's almost like mining or cooking food you know you can either know what you're putting in the ingredients if you make it from stretch or if you buy it you know do something that is like giving to you or a third party you don't really know all of us in there when you build it from the grassroots you have more I want to say you got more control

over who you can have in your organization. You can see how they think, how they move, what they disagree with you about how you all handle scenarios and better and better and how you can move forward in a different way. But circular economies, grassroots organizations from the ground up, that's pretty much how everything in life will be with Bitcoin because I can't touch everybody in Southeast Asia, but if the information, since the information is consistent, across the board. That same person in Southeast Asia could come all the way here to America

and understand that Bitcoin would be the same. The people will have the same type of thinking, but differently because the culture is different. But I think with the grassroots approach, and since Bitcoin is so consistent, that it helps

make, it helps to grow in a way where everybody can just come together. and have a common cause. Yeah, 100%. Awesome. Yeah, it's, do you guys, in terms of locally,

do you guys, like, have any relationships where you're buying stuff for sats or your, you know, like what are your, you know,

do you still have a bunch of fiat coming in where obviously you want to dump that first? Or do you guys have some things? that you're actually doing circular where you're purchasing stuff for sats no yeah i can buy eggs steak raw milk for sats i'll go into a pool party in a couple of days that i paid for with sats yeah where's that it yeah where's the invite what the hell are you come to austin i guess we'll come back again we'll come back um locally here where i live thing that I've seen

we have like a few restaurants who accept Bitcoin I mean at the meetups you can you know you can do some things with sets I do remember in like 2015 I had gone vegan and I was selling vegan food

my friend Isaiah Jackson he bought some fajitas from me this one with Bitcoin's like $600 and so I sold it for $12 so now they're probably worth a couple of you know thousands of dollars so I tried to I hope they were But I mean, where I am, if it's not Bitcoin, Charlotte, doing something, then in this city here, it's not going to be too, too much.

Not yet. Yeah. Same here. We're working on it. Yeah. Rhode Island is not a very Bitcoin friendly state, but we're trying our damnedest to make it. Like I said, we've got like five people at the meet up every month. We, you know, we go to different places.

I'm always like, can I pay in Bitcoin? I paying Bitcoin and we just try a new place. And one of these times someone's going to be like, I guess so. And I'll be like, all right, now we're staying here for the meet. Matter of fact, my fault. Go ahead. Oh, no, no. I was just going to say, we've been scheming like a, a 2024, like, Rhode Island Bitcoin event.

So I don't know if you know Remy from the Sato Boat project. He's flying. He's sailing around the world in a boat with a huge Bitcoin symbol on it. And I'm like, we've got to get him to pull in a Newport, Rhode Island and just throw a rager. And like education event and art and, you know, yeah, we got to move the needle here because it's pretty sad. That sounds like he's just asking for a tragic boat boating accident. Well, it would be proof. It would be proof that like this happens.

See? This is real. I mean, do it for the meme, I say. You'll lose a boat, but I mean, think of what could be gained. I'm saying 100K party is moving to Rhode Island from sales dry is what I'm hearing. Yes, yes. Start that meme. Let's get a go.

Let's get a circulating sailor Newport, Rhode Island. Let's Bitcoin eyes Rhode Island. Fun side note. So Rhode Island was formed because Roger Williams got kicked out of Massachusetts, right? Because he wanted to separate church and state. And like Rhode Island has this rebellious spirit. I mean, they boarded a tax ship in 1772. So like before the Boston Tea Party and burned a tax ship down to like the waterline.

And so I'm like trying to like dig it like we have Gaspi parade and stuff. And I'm like trying to dig into that rebellious spirit in Rhode Island to really like turn the turn the tide here. So stay tuned or or join us. That's amazing. That's fantastic. I've been I mean, I've been relatively successful trying to do, you know, local circular economy stuff here in Calgary. I there's a bunch of ranchers nearby. And so I've got a guy down south where I like stock my freezer with with beef.

There's a dude out the west side of the city where I grab my eggs and paying sats. There's another guy to the north, again, a farmer and he's got like lamb and chickens and all kinds of good stuff. And then if you guys ever watch the meme factory, Becca, Bitcoin Becca, she bakes some. bread for me. And she hand delivers it to my house. She just like showed up like, she's like, hey, what's your address? I'll swing by and drop off some bread. And then I

was doing a show when she showed up and my wife answered the door and she's like, who's this woman bringing bread to my husband? Oh my God. Did she bring you sandwiches too? Well, she did not pre-make sandwiches, but that's on on the list.

You know, one of these days we will do a lot. She's going to be we're doing the bitcoin rodeo here in calgary in a few days and she's part of it so if she doesn't show uh if she doesn't cater sandwiches to that then I mean friends off is

is how it goes. Yeah. Step it up. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways. Great. Well, I'm glad we got to chat circular con because I think it's a super super important thing. And to kind of round out this topic all

in terms of a call to action for everybody. Go to your local meetups and ask if at the beginning of each meetup, you can do a quick five minute. Somebody gets up and says, hey, this is what I'm looking for and I would love to pay in Bitcoin or this is what I offer and I accept Bitcoin. Because when you go and you do those things, in particular asking and saying I'm looking for this and I'm looking to pay in Bitcoin for it, even if it's a small meetup, the kind of six degrees of Kevin Bacon that takes place in order to like actually make those connections you never realize how many other people everybody else in the room also knows and even if their friend isn't fully into bitcoin you know that they've talked

to them about it and they'll probably be like well you know if you you don't want to go and buy bitcoin but maybe you want to like earn some then here's a way so you may find that it's easier to make connections and make ends meet and and start living on a partial bitcoin circular economy than you thought. So I encourage everybody to take that step. It's worth it. I promise. And with that,

let's round this one now. Let's do another rotation. And Justin, I'm actually going to toss it down to you. I'm going to cue you up. And again, same question. Why are you bullish?

I'm going to tell you why I'm bullish, but I want to shout out Tyler Durden. He said, just saying don't bring your C signer on the Titanic tour. Wow. That's true. You're not wrong. I mean, you know, I think some people might have had some sets on that submersible, but

I think so. We don't want to. That was actually the transport vessel for my cold card. I asked them if they could. They found some of the remains. So, you know, we're going to, I'm going to see if I can get that cold card and try to do something with it. Yeah. So why am I bullets from Bitcoin?

It's almost closest to Andrews as well. So at my nonprofit, we have this project we're working on call for bars and Bitcoin. A bit about my story I told Ben in Oslo was I learned about Bitcoin coming out of prison. And from a friend in my name of Bitcoin's Day in 2016. And I've been educating people online. I've gone from teaching people how to set up a wallet, I've even tried to sell Bitcoin like I would tell a friend. They said, I want to buy some Bitcoin.

I'm like, send me $120. I'll drive to an ATM, send them to Bitcoin and keep the other 20 for a gas. But, you know, I've gone around a lot educating people. And around 2021, I was in a group called Black Bitcoin billionaires. I used to do these rooms, call from bars to Bitcoin, teach people about Bitcoin who was either in prison coming out of prison or they had families and organizations and then from there I actually wanted to go inside prisons and teach and it wasn't until this year I found a way to do that I was introduced to some reentry professionals this guy by the name of Cardell Sims he said you can come on and

join so I'll be going inside prisons to teach and then from there I was at this conference called empower and I met some mining professionals who were saying they want they need people to work whether it's like mining technicians, generator technicians, and I said, well, I'm going inside these prisons to do Bitcoin education. Would you be open to taking people with coming out of prison to work? And they said, sure, you know, this is the Bitcoin space is what allows. So, me and my co-founder, business partner friend, Dr. Stacey Boyle, Dr. Stacey Boyle, we founded the Bitcoin Transformation Community. And what makes me bullish is that the project itself, it gets warm responses that people are actually open to the idea of seeing it done.

And we'll go inside our first prison in August, sometime August next week. So I'm bullish. And I say it's like a circular economy because how, when I first heard about Bitcoin, the first things that were told to me was it's a storage of value or we used as money. But then, and then someone said, my friend Zay said, well, it's decentralized. And I was just like, that sounds like something that's different from the government. He told me, you know, what decentralization was. And the reason it clicked so much, because in prison, right, at least here in America,

you have like an ID card. And on the back of it, you can use it, like, to swipe, to buy things if you have a job or your family sends you money. And if you don't, then no one's sending you money. Then you have to do hustling on the yard. So you have stamps, like posted stamps. stamps. And we would, you know, use stamps as currency, like the, to buy them out the store, so to speak, would be 40 cents on the yard. We sold them for 30 cents. So we could buy

tobacco with it. We could buy a canteen with it. We could pay people with it. We could gamble with it. And so I was just thinking, like, well, damn, you know, that makes a lot. Like, Bitcoin started making sense from that angle. And then, you know, from there, it was just like, all right, so I put Bitcoin through like my own test of thought because people would say, well, it's freedom money. And I was like, all right, so if I had a cell phone in prison and I had Bitcoin on it and the CEO took my cell phone, would I still be able to keep my Bitcoin? And the answer was yes because of your wallet, keeping your cold, your private seeds. So I was just like, you know, hell, let's run with it. But I say that it's a circular economy because I believe, you know,

that if the message is bought out there correctly and, you know, the way I would talk to people in prison, for instance, this one guy, he did like 30 years when he was like from 18 to 40. And I asked my friend, I was like, so I want you to tell us the price of a dollar in 1989. And it was like, you know, it was about 95 cents. And so then we said, like, what's the price now? It's like 84, 85 cents. So I made a correlation, the fact that most people go to prison. out of our community behind money.

You don't have it. You're selling drugs. You're doing something because you don't have money. But you go to prison behind the money that loses value the longer you sit in prison. So making that connection and then showing how you can use this as a currency to do the same things you kind of did in prison or do different things out in the world is why I'm bullish on Bitcoin. I know that was a lot, but there's a couple things that I wanted to touch on. Number one, you were talking about the different like stamps, the different, and I talked to you about this in Oslo where you're like the difference in price depending on like where you're redeeming it, like buying and selling and like moving between them. And I just, I thought it was unique because you had a unique perspective on understanding the spread.

Like this spread of like understanding like, oh, like, well, this is, you know, if I want to, if I want to redeem stamps for something, here, then it's going to be a different price than here. And it might be different from, you know, if you're getting Bitcoin for like KYC Bitcoin versus non-KYC Bitcoin, there's different prices. And a lot of people just think there's like the price of Bitcoin. And that's that's not the thing. And so you had like a unique perspective and understand that. The thing I just wanted to hone in on really quick before I, you know, toss it to Andrew

and Jess for any comments, questions is the, the economic. You know, you kind of fell into a situation because of economics and you, you know, it landed you where you were. And you kind of recognized Bitcoin as a bit of a solution to that. Did you not? Do you want to just touch on that? Kind of like your view of like how the broken money can result in what's happening with the prison? system often? I mean, the broken money, prison is why prison is here in America for people to, for a lot of companies to make cheap labor. You know, you get paid a dollar a day, 40 cents a day.

And you'd be surprised, you know, across the country, you know, who might invest in prisons or who might have some type of product made in prisons. But the delight for me came, came when I was um the light for me the life of me came when I was holding my daughter and I was like man you know I'm so I'm kind of far behind from my peers I need to find a way to to be early to something I didn't know I was looking to be early I didn't know I was looking for disruption until I found bitcoin I actually got scammed on one of those platforms for like a hundred and fifty dollars they tell you you put the money in and you'll get some some investment back and I was just like That was your stove moment, wasn't it?

That was my stove moment. Yeah, the whole 2017 was a stove moment. For anybody who doesn't know nothing about 2017, 2016, if you were around that time, that's a real stove moment. I still have scars in my hand from those times. But the thing was, it was just like, you're here early. Seven, like less than 1% in the world knew about Bitcoin. So for me, I just saw a great opportunity to be a part of where the world was

had it instead of being late. Because a lot of times in my community, we're late to every damn thing. So Bitcoin came around. I was like, how can we get the word out? How can we educate the people? And I think one of the best things that came about it was the fact that people can be open to it. And I would see what took place in like El Salvador or what they're doing, all these other great communities.

And I'm like, well, there's a community in America that needs help. And then I started thinking at the same time, this solution could solve more to just money. I mean, even for the U.S. dollar, you know, if you have people who can get a job in a kind of new industry and it can pay them differently than somewhere else. And you reduce recidivism. You reduce the amount of taxes. You spend on recidivism in America. You make communities better. You know, so there was a big multiplier effect.

and, you know, not just having Bitcoin is the thing, but it did open me up to more financial education and literacy. And that's where, you know, that lack of it, that lack of not knowing that money isn't worth going to jail over, money isn't worth going to prison over, not knowing that the dollar devalues itself year after year, not knowing that makes you make these type of decisions. So, you know, those types of, those type of revelations to me. and seeing that, you know, a lot of things that happened happened because the lack of money or the greed of money at the same of time. If you have, when I saw that there was a solution that could be fixed by that, then that's when I said, you know, let's go all in on it. So that's how the Bitcoin Transformation Community came about.

You follow us on Twitter. If it's something you'd like to donate to, go to Bitcoin Transformationcommunity.org and press that community button and you'll see donate BTC, but outside of that, I'm going to let the floor have it and, you know, yeah. All right. Yeah. And perfect, perfect little comment to capital law. Fiat makes people irrational. That it does. That it does. Let's toss it over to Jess or Andrew, whoever wants to dive in first. Any comments, questions, whatever you have. No, I mean, I think he's exactly right. There's a lot of education that needs to happen.

I feel like a lot of people don't understand why we're in the position that we're in in terms of the financial system, what's happening, the devaluing of the dollar, that people can't save money anymore because the cost of living is skyrocketing. I feel like people just don't know why. And so that's why they almost don't see why Bitcoin is the solution. They don't understand why the problem exists in the first place. So I feel like, yeah, there's a ton of education that needs to happen. And thank God we have Twitter. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Andrew, do you want to tag in here? Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Justin. I'd seen you on a couple things here and there, but it was awesome to get that perspective and kind of the journey. Man, you know, I know Bitcoin is for anyone or everyone or whatever your preference, but like I'm so bullish on Bitcoin for people that are screwed by the system, the current Fiat system in one way or another, whether it's you live in a country that, you know, is affected by inflation or other, you know, unbanked situations or whether it's, you know, the prison system and, and, you know, needing something to bootstrap with, you know, coming out of that. And, you know, I, uh, Jeff Booth, like, kind of blew my mind. I think when I was

reading Price of Tomorrow and or like just listening to him break down how the money printing hurts people with less means, despite it looking like it's designed for people with less means. Um, because, you know, just sweep that all into assets. If you've already got, you know, means and everything else gets more expensive and like that that was impactful so i'm i'm like cheering for you justin and and you know definitely uh definitely interested to learn about the project and and you know um because i mean coming coming out of a prison is i imagine you know i'm looking to learn more but like is a time when like you need something firm you can hold on to and like fucking dollars ain't it yeah so um like i'm super bullish on your project

I appreciate it, man. It's a, someone still has a stat with me that said, you know, the person who comes out in prison, they make an average of 12 to 15K a year. And it's just like with that type of, those type of numbers and the lack of opportunities, it's only like pointing you to do certain things. So, you know, noticing how the Bitcoin industry is, you know, fintech a bit. and, you know, always searching for opportunities that anyone could be a part of, you know, that's just what it's about, you know, it's a freedom money.

So we got to see if the industry is going to take that same approach, you know. And longest people can, not saying they won't become, they'll become a millionaire, but people don't really need to be millionaires, you know, to be to live a different quality of life. So I'm bullish on it. I know we're going to hit some roadblocks. Shout out to my partner, LFG mining. Let's fucking go mining LLC. You can follow him on Twitter.

The guy, Jose, he was very open to share. Like, you know, I'm open to hire and train anybody to give them the skills. And at the end of day, it's certain skills that people need to earn, to sadly say, earn Fiat to buy Bitcoin. And if that need isn't met, then people will always. be irrational because fiat makes people irrational they might need to go on a t-shirt yeah but um yeah not i appreciate everybody and just continuously stay tuned and uh follow btc tc one set on twitter awesome i love that and uh and the last thing i'll say is i love that you honed in on uh linking people up with creating careers in and around mining because like the

there's there's not like there's there's going to be a need for a lot more people in that industry particularly around like things like ASIC repair and stuff like that. You know, that's that's a good skill to learn because there's going to be a lot of ASICs around in the coming year. If I'm not mistaken. So, you know, if you can get yourself a good skill and a good career around something like that, and then also be learning about the broken economic incentives that led many people down. down a, you know, a crappy path and put them in a tough situation and, you know, Fiat.

It's all a circle of idea, you know, it's all a circle of economy, man. And, you know, it helps, you know, when I would talk to people and, like, I was even invited to the Jay Zee and Jack Dorsey Foundation to Teaching New York. And people would ask, I would ask, like, hey, how you like what you're learning, you know, tell me this, tell me that. They'll say it's great. I learned a lot, but it will always come down to, like, I. well, I need a job.

I don't make any money to buy Bitcoin. So if you don't make money like that, to even, if you got to decide between gas and food, you're not going to choose Bitcoin. You know, like it's just not going to ideally make sense to someone that new on. So providing that whole entire scenario is what I think, you know, could be a bit of a solution.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Awesome. All right. Well, great topic, very interesting. I have your book here. I'm in the, I haven't started it yet because I'm in the midst of finishing the other 17 books that got on my shelf. But it is, but I did actually watch the little film that that was done the other day as well. And that was great. So yeah, we'll throw up some links in a little bit here. But awesome. That's a topic. Okay, great. Well, let's do. Our final rotation, Jess, I'm going to toss it to you. Same question. Why are you bullish? Take it away. All righty. Well, I'm bullish because of Bitcoiners.

And I'm going to explain why. So as you were mentioning in the beginning, how I'm the most dangerous woman in Bitcoin Twitter. A couple weeks ago, for those people who don't know, I tweeted out a mere fact. and people lost their minds. Got a ton of death threats and, you know, wonderful messages. I mean, I'm not special. It happens all the time. But it got, like, pretty bad.

People were, like, calling people to docks my location, reporting me to the FBI. This guy was, like, this woman is so dangerous. She might be the next mass shooter and was, like, posting my picture everywhere. And so I had to get off of Twitter for like a couple days. But the reason why I'm bullish on Bitcoiners is because I saw so much support that I literally would have never thought I would have ever seen. Like Ben, you'd called out that freak.

And literally from people on the internet who I've never even met before. Like, and especially when the woke, the woke mob like comes after people, most people like just want to stay far away from that because then they'll go and attack you also. But like the amount of love and support I got from Bitcoiners was like unbelievable. And it really, really touched my heart because I was like, wow, this is actually like such a wonderful community. Because before I got on Twitter, I was like, I'm alone in this world. Like no one thinks like I do. no one cares about freedom like this is bullshit um and here i have lifelong friends from the internet and i think it's just an absolutely amazing thing so i'm bullish on bitcoiners

i love that you i uh also when you first uh when you first were on twitter everybody thought you were a fed and it's like that's not a real picture i thought i was a fed and they thought i was a dude until they met me until we met at the Miami in 21 yeah yeah that's hilarious also the the like with your experience

with these people everybody was like the funny thing was they were accusing you of like being this like like bloodthirsty like ready to snap and just like

kill everybody around you and they're basically accusing you being this like just on the cusp of being like a violent criminal you know literally sending you death threats this this woman's violent let's docks her and tell her that we're going to kill her yeah i'm going to be the next mass shooter but kill yourself bitch yeah it was it was a little wild um and you know what i'll say about it too when you said you got um you got support from a lot of bit corners. Obviously, there's a spectrum of bitcoinsers that have different held beliefs and

everything, but I pretty much across the board, even if it was people that like don't agree with like some of your beliefs, they were still coming to bat being like, how about if you don't like somebody's message, you just not pay attention to it instead of being crazy. Like I saw people that I know are like, you know, lean hard left. And they were like, yeah, it's still insane. And like, I'm willing to defend Jess. Because, you know, like, it's, we can hold different beliefs and, uh, and not get crazy about it and not get violent.

I think that's, you know, that maybe comes from that like, um, the, the little libertarian inside of all bitcoinsers where it's like, listen, we can disagree on stuff and, and, and still coexist. I think that's a nice quality that a lot of Bitcoiners have is as much as we hate on each other and get into arguments

over frigging everything. At the end of the day, you're still like, well, let's talk about the argument itself, not about like, you know, the person. So, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Basically, don't attack Bitcoins. Yeah. Don't come from Bitcoiners. They'll mobilize on you quickly. Exactly. I mean, what, like, what shocked me the most was that they were calling me, like, the hateful, horrible person. And then I was just like, look at my comments.

Like, what? Just, like, innocent videos of you, like, jumping onto floaties and pools with Katie and all that. This woman is insane. I think they latched onto the fact that you are like, they really latched onto the fact that you know how to fire a weapon and you've gone to a shooting range, which is insane. The fact that I know how to shoot a gun, oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, it was. Terrorist. Yeah, I'm literally shaking right now.

just a little um terrified when i was the canadian bitcoin conference like so much support there it was like it was unbelievable i mean it's just like we were all just scared because we know you have a gun

yeah you should be nice to me because because you know yeah yeah no it's cool actually i didn't realize that uh you know i i didn't realize you were going to be there until i saw you there but i'm glad you glad you made it up and i will say that you had an awesome presentation on the whole plan B passport thing, which is super

relevant in Canada given the past couple of years. And I hope that you had at least a few Canadians reach out after that chat because God knows we need it. And yeah, yeah, it's, you know, I think, I mean, if we want to kind of step back and generalize on the topic, I think, I think, for those being in Bitcoin necessitates in order for people to kind of like in order to kind of gain a foothold and and kind of make your way in I guess what you call the Bitcoin circular economy you've got to hone in on something an area where you can provide value and like very clearly what you and Katie are doing is of value to a lot of people and I think you're doing you know obviously the the people that came after you also didn't like that part of that. That was super shady that somebody might not want to live where they live and perhaps get a passport for another country. But nonetheless, I think values being provided and like across the board on this panel,

I think people gravitate towards that. And, you know, I think we're seeing a return like Bitcoiners are manifesting a return to a value economy, right? Like it's instead of, you know, the IKEA shit that you load your home up with, you're going to see local people building furniture that's going to last a lifetime and you purchase it with sats because your money has value. And now that handmade, you know, chair or kitchen table or whatever it may be that's going to last, you know, well into your grandchildren's lives actually has value.

And it, you know, it was created for you. and I think you're going to see a lot of that with the different people like there's a there's an artist named madex and and he has a really good point where he says and this kind of applies to just what you're doing but like people that are creating content creating applications creating anything if you know a lot of bitcoiners are are willing to purchase things for Bitcoin when they see that you're accepting Bitcoin. that comes with a caveat. If you're a person that is doing it just, if your product is crap or what you're doing is crap and you don't take constructive criticism and you don't kind of like improve upon what you're doing, then you don't retain the goodwill or the customer

beyond the initial sale, right? Because people have value, you know, they pour, their blood, sweat, and tears into earning those sats. And when they turn around to spend them, they want value for their money. And they extrapolate these values out to every aspect, you know, especially for their own time. And so if people are spending time engaging with you, they obviously value something that you're doing. And they're willing to, you know, when push comes to shove, they're willing to go to bat for somebody that has provided them value. So I think we're going to see

a lot more of that. I think it's a good community. As adversarial as we can be and as argumentative as we can be, I think at the end of the day, that's a good thing, and it makes us all better. For sure. Yeah. At least people finally stand up for something instead of just bending the knee and being like, oh, yeah, that's fine.

Yeah. Yeah. Andrew, do you have any thoughts? I know it's kind of a broad. So many, but no, yeah. I mean, so I've been working in Bitcoin for a couple of years. I worked in the like digital advertising marketing strategy type world right previously and like I get in more

arguments and I'm like so fulfilled by them like I work with I don't know if you know camille but he goes by pretty flacco but like you know he's host of adopting bitcoin he works at galilee and we'll literally be like on chat and be like do we need to like get on a zoom and argue about this right but it's like it's and it's because like we're doing something we deeply care about and it and it matters right and so like you said then like Bitcoin is a slice of humanity. Therefore, there are people with every different view. So there are no people who agree on everything.

But the way in which Bitcoiners like slug it out is actually a beautiful thing. And the way that Bitcoiners like support each other from like a foundational standpoint is a beautiful thing as well. And like that that is something that is crazy. Like like because I and I think that because of that because you know, Corey Clipson had a tweet like two years ago that did I still think about where he's like, it's just not fair when you think about all the people working on Bitcoin. And like you can't, there's no amount of money that you can pay them to like go work at another company. Like these are people that are passionate about like changing the world and we're on a mission together.

And that's extremely strong. Right. And it's, you know, everybody that I work with is here for for the revolution, right? like for, you know, Jessica, what you're doing. I mean, it's like, is insane to see like in El Salvador as an example. And as I mentioned, like, it's an early use case where you're going from people fleeing to from a place to people fleeing. You know what I mean? Like so the world is the shape of the world is changing. And I think like being on this on this vessel, this submersible with everybody is really.

That's too soon. No, that's not, that's not, that's not right. Being, being, being in this boat with you guys is, is, is awesome. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, everything's kind of turning into a bit more of a meritocracy, at least within, you know, this community that we're, we're building.

Um, I think, you know, it's, I think Bitcoin, the, the, the community, the, the community is a natural response to a world where, you know, merits didn't matter. And where it was basically just you just had to trust everything at all times. There was no way to verify. And so the most extreme of the extreme Bitcoiners are naturally going to happen because like you're always going to have like we have the far end of Fiat world where it's like just toss your money in this black hole and we're going to, you know, not even let.

we're just going to like make up fake money out of nowhere and like no the price of nothing of everything is fake and the numbers that we tell you are all fake and everything is fake and all the facts are misinformation and all the information are facts and you know like this is the state of the world and so naturally there is going to be a knee jerk reaction to the opposite side of that spectrum and so that's where you see the like you know you see people that are like like and I love I love this about Bitcoiners but also you know it can get frustrating where it's like you know you have things that are near like as fully open sources they can be but if you like if you say it like if you miss state something they're like

no that's fucking bullshit it's not fully open sort and like that like down to the nitty gritty of like, can I reproduce and build this entire thing myself and verify everything myself? And can I, you know, what if it, what if it ships and then it's intercepted in between? And then somebody, toys with that, like, you get the extremes of like, if I didn't mine the minerals and then actually create the chipset myself and like construct it from scratch and like by hand do the numbers to create the seed my own entropy that I can't trust like you get to that extreme and like I guess that's good not not everybody's going to do that but like what it does is it takes it takes the center and it pushes it more towards don't trust verify and that's why I value that

kind of stuff where people scrutinize to such an extreme degree where you're like it's it's just not realistic, but at the same time, that's not the point. The point is you're dragging that Overton window towards self-sufficiency and self-sovereignty. And that's the important part that we need to focus on. And then each person needs to then assess from that standpoint, kind of where they're at. But I mean, this is the division that we see with Fiatland and Bitcoin, don't trust, verify and trust no one kind of mentality. I'm here for the pedantic arguments. I mean, Kamal will take you up on the open source one for sure.

Yes. And then I was listening to Kale and Eric Sirion and MBK the other day. And Calle went down on like layer three. What is layer three, right? And he's like, no, no, no, we're going to hash this out right now. You know what I mean? And like went deep. And, you know, Gigi, same thing is like, why do we call something a wallet when it like the metaphor doesn't work?

the, you know, it's a signing device. And I, uh, not everybody out there, like, needs to be privy nor engaged in these discussions, but I'm super grateful that people are, like I said, it's like a slug fest sometimes and like, I'm here for it. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Mark in the comments, did you mind the Silicon for your seat signer?

Because otherwise you're just a LARP. Yeah. I love it. Um, yeah. I mean, again, I think we're, we're, we're, we're, We're in a positive place. And I think the world desperately needed a group of people to come to it with demanding, demanding something of substance to back up our beliefs and how the world works.

So yeah, like you said, I'm here for it. So any, so what I'd like to do now is at near the end of the show, I like to do a quick round of any final thoughts and recommendations. And so final thoughts, just anything that you didn't get off your chest or anything you want to sum up before we sign off. In terms of recommendations, what I mean by that is it can really be anything. It could be like a life lesson that you've learned. It could be like a new podcast or video that you've watched that you thought was really cool

and people should check out. Maybe it's a news item. Maybe it's an app or a device that you've played with that you think is worth checking out. whatever it is, just something that you want to direct people towards that you think they will find value in it. And it can be Bitcoin related or can be like tangential to Bitcoin, whatever you decide. And so, I mean, my final thoughts right now are just that, you know, this chat was very kind of like community focus, like the Bitcoiners, the ones that actually make the difference. The technology helps, but the people behind the technology are the ones that shape the world. And again, calling back to Andrew's little infographic that he had there, if that's the trajectory,

we're on with all these little ground-up Bitcoin communities, I mean, it's happening everywhere in every corner of the globe, and it's happening more frequently, and it's going to spread like wildfire. And so we're starting to see these communities pop up and there's incentive for it. So I can't wait for more of that to happen. And in terms of recommendations, I've used this recommendation before. I already said it in the show. But go to your local meetup. And I want you, yes, to mention if you have a good or service that you're willing to accept Bitcoin for, mention that.

But I want you to explicitly ask at your meetup for some. that you are looking for that you would love to be able to get with Sats. And think of it from the perspective of, you know, like Andrew was saying earlier, if shit were to hit the fan, you know, what would it be really nice to have access to that can't be stopped? If you just had a good community of people and you needed to pick up your basic necessities, start there, start with the basic necessities and start being able to do that with Sats because the relationship you can build with somebody, when you both value Bitcoin, you have like

a starting point for a good relationship with that person that you wouldn't have with somebody else where you have to start with small talk, you can build from there. And you can do that over and over again and build an awesome community right where you are. So that's my recommendation. I'm going to toss it to Andrew next. And again, any final thoughts, recommendations? Throw them at us. Totally.

First of all, thanks. This is super fun. Glad to be here with you all. I think I didn't get off my chest. I think I said earlier when I was when I was describing Blink, like, oh, it was like, you know, two use cases where we see it. And I was like, oh, the, you know, your first, it's a great first lightning wallet. And then, like, we or I moved on completely and didn't fill it out.

So I need to close that loop in my brain, which is like people that zap, like, self-custody maxi that wants like the, like you said, $5 in the wallet or, you know, a couple bucks for traveling. Like, you know, definitely check it out and like, give us. us feedback. Like we iterate based on feedback. So that's at blink. That sb. That's the first one. Second one is study Bitcoin. And then yeah, the third one is if you're interested in what communities are doing on the ground all over the world, I think the best place to go today is there's a telegram group. So t.mee slash Bitcoin for communities. This is where a lot of us are kind of

organizing a little bit. And there's there's action items. We'll do calls in the future. and we're, you know, hopefully, like, publish, you know, a destination, a landing Pedro's site where these communities that are some, like, validated, right, can present theirself and accept donations and accept, you know, reach out. So, yeah, Bitcoin for Communities on Telegram. Cheers. Awesome. That's great. All right. I'll toss it down to Justin. Dude, any final thoughts, recommendations? Go ahead. Oh, man. So many. Let's see. My final thought would be to, you know, let's take Bitcoin to another level of like solving global issues that people never thought it could happen with.

Like in Oslo, Freedom Forum, it was amazing to see how many people were willing to, like, face their, face their government and die for their government and there's somebody, I mean, die for the freedom of just regular human liberties. And like up there, we were, we were just in the background, you know, we weren't, the big corners weren't the main focus at that time. And it was good, you know,

because you could see that the world, at least for me, that was my first international trip. So I got to see, like, what the rest of the, store where I was doing and you know how they were just using Bitcoin as a currency you know as it's

as it's actually meant to be used that well I can't say how it's meant to be used you know that's nothing we can actually say but taking advantage of one of the many use cases of it but actually applying it to you know some type of human rights

some type of human liberties that can change people's lives and so you said the what was the last one you said what's our recommendation so recommendation I recommend people well I'm going to tell you this funny story

like my co-founder Dr. Stacey Boyle she loves to go to places she lives in Las Vegas so she goes to places in Vegas and just tries the orange pill orange pill SMBs and she orange pill to SMB the other day

her hairstylist I'm just going to keep buying you Bitcoin keep buying you Bitcoin She almost like imposed her will on it. So, you know, that's, that's something neat you can do. If you wanted to even see more about that, you can just check it out on our website, Bitcoin Transformation Community.org. But, you know, sometimes in life, you got to impose your will, you know. And as in Bitcorners, we got to, you know, just keep imposing our will

and keep allowing Bitcoin to do what it do and Fiat to do what it doesn't do. That's those are my three sets. down with it. Awesome. I love it. All right. And I'll toss it to Jess last. Final thoughts. Recommendations. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I love coming back on. Final thoughts. I would say if you have like no fellow Bitcoiners or say you just like don't know what to do, go to your local meetup. They're awesome. And if there isn't one, start one. And get on Twitter. Just put your ideas out there make connections with people because it's life-changing. Like I met my best friend, my business partner on Twitter.

It's a wonderful place. And just to make those connections with people. And like we said, like Bitcoin is just a foundational topic. Like when I'm hanging around Bitcoiners out, we don't even talk about Bitcoin. We talk about everything else that just stems from it. So just, you know, put yourself out there. Yeah, that's great. Awesome. All right. Well, everybody, again, thanks for being here. There's a blast. I hope to see many of you in person again sometime soon. I don't know when that's going to be. I'm traveling around during the summer, not at any Bitcoin events, but I will be down in Nashville in September, and I'll be at Pacific Bitcoin in October. Will you be in Amsterdam?

I unfortunately will not be in Amsterdam. I know. How about adopting Bitcoin? El Salvador? I don't know. In the cards? I don't know. Andrew, I need help get in there, Andrew.

What can we work out, Andrew? All right. All right. I'm going to see what I can do. It's hard with a wife and two children in tow sometimes. And also, I can't be away from them for, that long without losing my mind also. I understand.

I don't travel a fraction as much. I cannot cast stones, but I would love you to make it down there one year. I, that it is on the bucket list of places I have to get to, obviously. So I'm figuring it out. Perhaps. Perhaps we'll see what can happen.

But anyways, thank you guys so much for being here. And yeah, I'll just wrap it there. You guys are all welcome back anytime. Cheers, thank you. Cheers later, guys. All right.

And everybody, thank you so much for joining in. Thanks to everybody that's been in the chat the whole time as well. I appreciate all the messages and everything that have been coming through. Yeah, yeah, love you guys, of course. Before we wrap out here, then, yeah, you can please do hit like, subscribe, share, all those things. They really help a ton getting this in front of more eyeballs. If you want to help the show in another way,

you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors and the show notes down below. Those were Hoddle, Hoddle, Coin Kite, Nunchuk, and Start 9. You also head over to my website, BTCSessions.ca. And there's a bunch of free content. Everything is there. Also, if you need some hand holding

with any of the stuff that I do cover online, like if the free tutorials aren't enough, you can book me for one-on-ones just on the website, vtccessions.ca. And if you really liked what you saw, you can scroll down a little bit. There's an LN URL code there. You can always tip some sats.

Or on the stream, I just brought up a little QR code down to the bottom. That'll take you directly to my Geyser page. And you can actually leave little comments with any sats that you happen to send over. So anyways, guys, Thank you so much for being here. We'll be back at it next week.

Tutorials, news, more why are we bullish? Should be a good time. And I'll wrap it here. Have yourselves a wonderful evening. I will see you guys next time for your daily session.