BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Kasia Szczypska, Sam Callahan, Vivian C ep399

Episode Date: February 17, 2024

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/KSzczypska https://twitter.com/samcallah https://twitter.com/btcviv BOOK ME for private one-on-one sessions on my website! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more. https://www.btcsessions.ca/ 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Nunchuk Wallet and their Honey Badger plan is a best in class assisted mutisig setup with built-in inheritance planning and NO KYC. Check them out today! https://nunchuk.io/ SEEDOR is one of the most robust metal backups on the market today. Get your SEEDOR starter set today! Use this link for 5% off. https://www.seedor.io/discount/BTCSESSIONS?redirect=%2Fcollections%2Fprodukte For US based customers: https://www.seedor.io/btcsessions Canadian customers: https://link.thecryptoboutique.ca/BTCSessionsSeedor Start9 is your Bitcoin & lightning node, and full personal server - enabling you to take back control from the gatekeepers of your money and data! Grab Server Lite,One or Pro today and become truly self-sovereign! https://start9.com/ Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions HodlHodl is a NON-CUSTODIAL, NON-KYC solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION

What is going on, everybody? Welcome to this show, another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. Awesome panel today, very excited to have them all. We are going to be bringing them in momentarily, but I hope you've all had a great week. I hope it's in kind to you. It's been a very interesting, exciting week. Well, I'm sure we'll get into some of that momentarily. If you can, well, we'll get you to do a favor in a second.

But of course, this is live. Anything can happen, as we've seen plenty of times. before. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. We'll do it live. Do it live. I can I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The thing sucks. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share all those things. They're super important. They really do help get the show in front of more eyeballs. So hit that like button just below the screen. Share this on whatever socials you're on. And of course, subscribe.

And thank you to everybody. that's been doing that as of late. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a quick look at where we are in the market right now. I am bringing up timechain calendar.com and simultaneously I'm going to bring up the live chat

on the right hand side of the screen. Everything from here on in will be live for the world to see for better or worse. And over to the time chain calendar, We're sitting at $52,067 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will snag you 1,921 sats. In terms of fees, next block, 22 sats per byte, anytime 10 sats per bite. And the Mempool is only purging stuff south of around 4.3 sats per bite.

And in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.63 million of them, that is 93.48% of the total supply. shout out to, well, first of all, if you are going through the tutorials on the channel and you need some additional help, maybe you need some hand holding and the following along is not quite cutting it, you need some interaction. You can reach out of me on my website, BTZSessions.com and book me for private one-on-one education sessions. Shout out to sponsor the show, hollow-hottle.com. If you have some priorities that include peer-to-peer trading, instant self-custasy and no K-YC, they are an awesome option for you. You can sign up with just an email address. Choose your currency payment method and amount, and you can start viewing offers immediately.

They also have peer-to-peer lending with no rehypification. Links are down below. Once you do get your hands on some Bitcoin through whatever method you decide, you're going to want to secure it with some of the best hardware on the market. I love coin kite and everything they do. So, ooh, that queue just arrived. I'm going to be playing and making a video soon. But the cold card queue is just beginning to ship for people that did pre-orders. So if you want to pre-order it or pick up any of their other goodies like the Mark 4,

tab signer, block clocks, all that stuff. Head to coin kite.com. Use code BTC sessions for a nice discount at checkout. Backups are also important. CDOR has an awesome solution with their disc and capsule design. basically this protects your seed phrase from the elements fire water corrosion all that they have full starter sets to get you started with two or one full seeds depending on what your preference is all the links are down below to get you set up and with the best shipping options for you and

last couple here shout up to nunchuk for your assisted multi-sig needs their honey badger program is super awesome you can set up a full multi-sig on your mobile device with things like tap sign or cold card plenty of other options out there. And once it is set up, it has baked in inheritance planning. So your stats get to your next of kin, if anything should happen to you. And the whole thing can be done without KYC. So you don't need to give up private information to have it set up and work for you. You can check out my tutorial and check out them at nunchuk.io and flash out of the day to start nine, your sovereign computing solution. These guys have plug and play devices to host

not just your Bitcoin life, but your digital life. So you can host things with these devices like your Bitcoin Core node, your Lightning node, Mempool.Space, files, passwords, photos, Nosterrealism, clients, AI stuff. So you can do it all from your own home. They run everything from intro, entry-level devices to what I'm running,

which is the Start9 server peer. If you do want to pick up the Pure at over to start9.com or anything else, but with the Pure, you can get an 18% discount with the code, BTC sessions with a plus at the end. Anyways, enough of my ranting. We're going to get in our guests and we've got people coming in from around the globe.

And so we will see how connections fare. But either way, we're going to bring them in. We'll see how it goes here. So first up, we're going to welcome in Sam. We're also going to welcome in, Kasha. And I see two VIVs. So we're going to try one and we'll see how it goes. So let's try this one.

Viv, can you hear me? Not that one. Let me try the other one. Hold on. I can't. Can you hear me? Yes, yes. Okay, perfect.

I hear you. We don't see you, but that's okay. We can do this. Oh, sorry. I forgot to turn on my camera there. That's okay. We got you. Thank you all so much for joining.

I really appreciate you being here and your time. If we do have connection issues, we'll just take it as it rolls. But we will make it work. So welcome. We're going to do a quick round of intros so that everybody knows who you guys are and what you do. So I'll toss it to Sam first. Dude, first, welcome back. And second, can give yourself an intro for anybody unfamiliar.

Yeah, thanks for having me back. Always a pleasure. And it's a super bullish time to come on the show. So I'm excited. I'm the senior analyst at Swan Bitcoin. Bitcoin Financial Services Company, do a lot of the research. I'm the host of Swan Signal Live and do spaces, a lot of writing. And yeah, just follow the market pretty closely and track how the market's developing as well as the industry.

So big fan of your work and excited to be here. Thanks, man. And yeah, I'm very happy to have you back. We'll rotate down to the bottom there. Let's go to Viv first. Viv, thanks for being here. Can you give yourself a little intro, let people know who we are and what you do? Of course, of course.

Hi, everyone. My name is Vivian. I've been in the Bitcoin industry for the past three years doing marketing, PR, events, and communications. So today I'm also the producer and host of the podcast Live with Bitcoin, focusing on the human side of Bitcoin and talking about the personal transformation through the lines of Bitcoin. Thanks, Glenn, for inviting me on the show and sorry about the nerve-wracking technical issues. I'm live streaming from the east side of the world. so the connection is spotty here.

And hey, congratulations on hitting 100,000 saps. That's goodos, very, very well deserved. Thank you. I appreciate it. And thank you for beaming in from the opposite side of the globe. It's always cool that I get to chat with people all over. So, yeah, thanks for being here and very excited to chat. We'll toss it down the line to Kasha as well.

Thank you for joining. Can you give yourself a little intro as well? Who are you? What do you do? Hey, everyone. My name is Kasha. I'm connecting from Warsaw, Poland. And I'm just a modest activist, human rights activists and Bitcoin activists. So consider myself a new week in the space.

So professionally, my job is to advocate for Bitcoin to Western decision makers, showing it as a humanitarian force. And then as an activist, currently our pet project is Bitcoin Film Fest, so we're a hub for all Bitcoin and cinema. That's awesome. And I see in the audience, I see Pierre and Tomek, and they are both fantastic. I love their work. So good to see them here.

But thank you all for coming and joining on a very bullish Friday. And I got to do a big shout to everybody. Again, Vivian, you alluded to it. But yes, the channel just the other day earlier this week surpassed 100,000 subscribers after eight years. So it's been a long, slow grind. But that was a big milestone that I was very excited about.

And I feel happy that it got here through education. and not through just telling everybody how rich they're going to be and gambling and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, you can get there. It just takes a little bit longer when you do it a little bit more legit. So. Yeah, preference made off eventually. Yes. Yes, exactly. There's definitely a lot of low time preference going on there. But yeah, so very excited about that. But with that, we're going to dive into the show. Anybody here that is unfamiliar

with it, this is, why are we bullish? The concept is very simple. Each one of us has come with a reason for being bullish. And this can be anything in and around Bitcoin that we're excited about. It could be a personal experience. It could be a news item. It could be a new app or device

that you've been playing with. It could be really anything. But the flow of the show is number one, somebody is going to drop a reason for being bullish. It's their chance to rant and get off their chest whatever they're excited about. Number two, everybody's going to riff on that reason, comments, questions, whatever rabbit holes we decide to go down.

And then finally, number three, we're going to rotate to the next person until we've all had a chance and a turn. So reason, riff, rotate, really simple. My number one piece of advice, don't drop your reason for being bullish early. Wait until I specifically ask you while you're bullish. Sometimes it might get weird if you drop it early and you have nothing to say when I ask you later. So I'll get us started really quick, and then we'll continue on.

But the reason I'm bullish today kind of comes from, I was chatting. Somebody had me for a one-on-one session earlier today. And we got talking about something called time locks. So basically what you can do is you can send Bitcoin to an address with a regular transaction, but you can actually set a time lock either in term of a specific block or a specific date and time that that Bitcoin will be unspendable until that point in time. It will be locked. And we kind of dove a little bit into some of the implications of this. And I just such a cool idea that that somebody,

could feasibly today say, I would love to allocate some Bitcoin to, you know, my heirs that I will never meet generations from now. Somebody could say, I would love to gift my great, great grandchildren with a Bitcoin. And imagine, like, the purchasing power of a Bitcoin, you know, four generations from now. And you could do it in a way where effectively the generations in between are simply just a steward of the keys to pass those down and protect them until it gets to the right people eventually. And you could seed, you could basically seed what you hope to be meaningful change in the future.

and you can push wealth far into the future that cannot be touched by anyone. And it's almost the absolute inverse of what we have now where we're effectively stealing from future generations. We're racking up debt and saying, yeah, I don't know. The great, great grandchildren will foot that bill. And we're impoverishing future generations by doing so. And so I love this idea that you can, you can, you can take something and you can pass it on to people that you'll never meet in a way where it will be unspendable even by anybody with the keys in the interim. And I like the idea of, of potentially taking Bitcoin and staggering that and saying like, I would like to build something that is going to be a multi-generational project. and I'm going to send Bitcoin that will unlock at certain points in time to seed that project.

I think it's just such a cool way of passing wealth through time in an immutable fashion. So I've just kind of started diving into what that might look like and technologically, how you could even get more granular with it and give conditions and have all kinds of cool things. happen in that, but what a unique thing and what a what a departure from what we have now, which is looting our great-grandchildren. So I'm just kind of curious of what you guys think in and around the idea of changing the way that we deal with generational wealth now and what some of the implications, good or bad, might be of being able to push wealth into the future for future generations.

Anybody wants to dive in, whatever thoughts come to mind if you're, yeah. I can jump in. I think it's very interesting the ability to put like time locks and different spending conditions on Bitcoin because it's very unique to Bitcoin, like you said. And Bitcoin is programmable money. And so we can have these really interesting schemes related to multi-sig with time locks on them. And it allows us to do all different kinds of things that you just can't do with any other asset. So it's another way that Bitcoin kind of differentiates itself from every single other financial

asset in the world. And, you know, I just think of things like an insurance policy, for instance. Like, you could have a situation where it could be programmed that the Bitcoin becomes unlocked after a certain time period of an insurance policy. Or you could have a lawyer have access to a key for a certain amount of time at the contract. And then once it's up, you know, it can unlock or it could lock and he doesn't have access anymore. So you can do like really interesting things. And I think that it'll improve just that the custody of Bitcoin itself. Like you can have more like institutional grade custody solutions where there's more distribution of the risk. And that'll allow different kind of schemes to come up in different products and actually make it safer for

people to hold Bitcoin and transfer transfer it to different generations over time. Because right now, I look at the multi-sig schemes as well as multi-party computation, all these different ones that are used. And a lot of the ways, it's like we're using Bitcoin like gold or something, where a lot of times it's just like held in a vault. And it depends on human processes. But if you can actually have programmable schemes that can't be tampered with or it's actually programmed to unlock at a certain time, that in itself is an innovation. in custody and it's very unique to Bitcoin. So I think it's very early days. We're just kind of scratching the surface

about what we can do with these things. But it makes me incredibly bullish about the future. Anything that involves innovation around custody or inheritance with Bitcoin, I think that's uncharted territory. And I think we need to build better solutions. So super bullish on it. I have a question for you,

just because I feel like this might be a little bit your wheelhouse. What do you think about the idea of sending Bitcoin to a wallet with a time lock, say, five, ten, 30 years in the future.

And then in some way being able to take the keys in a way where it's, it's kind of like it's, the, the keys are transferable, but also encrypted so you can't make a copy of it. And it almost, acts like a bond in that it comes to maturity, but it might trade at a discount or a premium

to the value of the Bitcoin that are locked to those keys. And as it gets closer and closer to the unlock time, it more accurately reflects the exact value of the underlying asset. Because you know, like a 30-year bond. Yeah, there's a there's a, there's a an interest rate on that. But yeah, I don't know. I was trying to bat around in my head like how that might look, how that might work and also how that might scale because it's like a, it's a fixed amount of Bitcoin, but you could feasibly move it around and sell it and trade it in a way where it's kind of locked up at the same time. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, there'd be like a liquidity discount and then as it comes closer to maturity, you know, get closer and closer to NAV, I guess.

But yeah, I mean, those are the kind of things that I think about that I think people are starting to build companies around. You're starting to see innovations around it. And like I said, I think we're in the early days of what this could look like because people are just starting to play around with miniscripts and, you know, unlocks. And you start to, when you have that time component, you can just start to think about really interesting ways to utilize your Bitcoin over long periods of time. So I think you're right. I don't know if I have anything to add about the specifics of that. I just, it kind of boggles your mind about, it reminds me of like the early internet in the 90s where it was almost impossible to imagine the Ubers of the world

and things like that. I think similarly today, we're just kind of looking at the building blocks, but we can't really imagine what's going to get built 20, 30 years from now on this new technology. I'm just going to kind of grab some popcorn and I'm excited to see it, you know? Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. I'm curious, Viv, you often deal with the, again, in your show, you deal with the human stories of Bitcoin. Do you see the ability to, you know, effectively lock up saving. things and pass it on to a future generation? Like, does that come across your radar as something that applies to your wheelhouse of seeing

how it impacts people? I think so. And I'm glad you bring this up because I didn't know that this exists. And you're going to see that the time, the whole concept of time lock is actually very similar or correlated to what I'm going to say about why I'm bullish, right? I think you're right, we're extreme, as Sam is right, we're extremely early. And I think it's a time preference thing. And you said it's basically the inverted of the time preference in a Fiat system where we use

that to fund things today. And then now you're doing an entire different approach to stretch your time preference to almost infinite, not infinite, but for our lifetime, right? It's you're passing down your wealth into something, someone that's generations ahead of you or behind you. I think it will take time for us to build such a high time, a low time preference. For now, as Bitcoiners, we see the time preference of Bitcoiners start to stretch.

We're starting to take care of ourselves more, take care of our own lifetime more. We're thinking about, oh, how much Bitcoin I can save for my kids. And then we think about how much Bitcoin we can save for our grant kits. So I think it's going to be a process for this time preference to really stretch to that extent. And I think one interesting use case for the concept of time lock is that how can we, I think today what we can use for it is how can we discipline ourselves to not spend our Bitcoin? I think you mentioned this in the last week of why we're bullish,

saying that you're almost on a Bitcoin standard. And the more you're on it, the more you regulate yourself in terms of where you spend your money and you start to think about, do I really need to do this if I'm on a Bitcoin standard? I don't want to sell my stats for dollars, let's say. And I don't think everybody would have that discipline, even though they are Bitcoiners. But they want to, right? As Bitcoiners, we intrinsically have that lower time preference. And we want to discipline ourselves.

and it will be great to use this as a tool to say, I won't spend this, I won't be able to touch it until, let's say, after having. Then even if I feel the urge to spend it today, I just physically can't. Then it's going to be a great tool to help us build that discipline. Eventually, we can build that super low time preference to pass it down to our great, great, grandchild. I like that. I wish I had the discipline to have had forced savings when I was younger. I bought a lot of dumb shit.

So it would have been nice to have, you know, and who knows, I could imagine an instance where somebody today says, you know, this Bitcoin is going to have, it's going to impact me and my family or my, again, my children or grandchildren. so much more materially than like in the future than it will now with the you know the consumer electronics and garbage that you know people will just go out and get nowadays um and i wonder again for for important causes and even for seating entire major projects and and i almost think like you could force cooperation amongst future nation states by saying here's let's let's have a giant multi-sig and angle it yeah a whole bunch everybody's got a key and and there's a big honeypot that

unlocks in the future but you need the a majority of those nations to have gotten along to the point where they're going to unlock the multi-sig together so yeah i think there's a lot of interesting things you could try and do there. Imagine that the resolution to World War IV is that everybody wants the sats. Time walks will unlock world peace. Exactly. Cash, I want to toss it to you and get your thoughts and all this. Is there anything bubbling in your mind here?

Well, my first thought was that I would like to test it on my knees and just time lock some some sad thoughts for her. But yeah, Vivian, I liked your point with, yeah, I don't, I think this societal consciousness shift in terms of like being prepared for this really low. And then according to what you, my initial false was where, okay, how the application of public sphere, we will lend when it comes to nation states, more limited governments, but. it would be a nice tool to sort of discipline when it comes to spending. So, yeah, sounds exciting. I agree. Sorry, Sam, you dive in.

Well, no, I just love this comment. He's like, I've done that to my brothers. They're going to receive their bitcoins in 10 years. And it's just, it's like what Vivian was saying. It's like forcing discipline on them to benefit from Bitcoin's appreciation. if they don't understand it. And I used to, I still do, but I've given Bitcoin for wedding presents

for years and years and years. And for the people that didn't understand Bitcoin or weren't technologically savvy, I'd give them an open dime and I'd just put it in there. And I knew that they just, they wouldn't know how to use it anyway. So then they would just not be able to sell it

even if they wanted to. They'd have to call me up and be like, how do I use this? And I wouldn't tell them because I would want them to just hold. But now with time locks, I don't have to worry about that. even if they figured it out, like they wouldn't have to sell it early.

So yeah. It's going to help orange pill people. Because if you lock the coin for two years, then very, very likely that the number is going to go up. And then they're going to see if they're going to see Bitcoin first from the number go up perspective. And then they're going to get curious. And ultimately, I don't think we can force everyone to really study Bitcoin from a technology, technological perspective or even economics because not that's not everybody's interested in. But if people see price go up and it's increasing their actual purchasing power,

it's all relevant for all of us. And from the number go up perspective, maybe this is the way to kind of pull them into the circle by not even worrying about that they're going to spend it because they physically just cannot. Yeah. It's like time in the market beats time in that market. And like even the even the traditional financial system with like IRAs like they they penalize people for taking money out they want people to hold for long periods of time if you take out anything before you're 59 and a half you get penalized for it and so now it's the same thing with bitcoin if you have like you know specific restrictions over how they can spend it in the code um it's basically the same thing it's just

using code instead of penalizing them or you know using force or whatever regulations yeah i like what cash said about forcing governments to be more responsible what they're spending like first of all actually having surpluses instead of deficits uh but secondly you know if you have a surplus time-locking portions of that so that the government can just go on spending sprees and it's away it's it's treasury right so that would be that would be ideal setting it at intervals so there's like a check and balance or something or you know or just not allowing government to take her money but there's that too um so anyways guys i i i love the thought experiments around this i just thought it was a very unique idea that you can you can uh effectively immutably lock value into the future that no one even yourself can touch

uh and that's really a unique and novel idea uh that we've not encountered before. So it's it's a time capsule for human value. And who knows what people will open it up and do with it in the future. So anyways, I'm going to put a... I do have one concern, though. I do have one concern for this, though. I think for this to really happen and be effective, the question here or the challenge here is custody. Because how if we think about how do we, for the majority of people, even to solve... custody their Bitcoin, it's a challenge and it's a nerve-wracking process to do it across lifetime or even for a few generations, for their kid and grandkid. And how can we even solve

the custody problem for generations to come with all of the technological changes, with our environment and just individual living their lives? It's I think until we have a really solid custody solution for everyday people to take on their Bitcoin and do it over generation. That's when coupled with the stretching of time preference in general, I think that's when this idea is going to take off. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

I think it's, we're in a unique spot where every single person doing a transaction today is doing the equivalent of a global gold settlement. shipping gold around the world. And that's not the reality of how people will transact in the future. And we're also seeing each layer on top of that system be built in real time and having to shift how we use Bitcoin as those things come to fruition, right? Like I think in the future, it'll probably even be odd for an individual to have a lightning channel.

It's more, it seems like lightning may just be the glue that holds together all of these other systems and lets them interoperate. So like we're literally like hopping from layer to layer being like, oh, lightning's the thing. Oh, wait, shit. No, lightning is the thing that will connect all the other things. And so we're kind of, you know, we're just experiencing it as it comes. And that's a very good point in, you know, if you time lock something for 100 years, people will be like, what the hell is this? How do I, you know, a single individual dealing with a UTXO will be unheard of. So could be could get interesting.

Nonetheless, I'm going to put a bow on this. Go ahead, Cash. I was just saying that I was just saying that intuitive guy made a good comment on the fact likely our grandkids will never transact on chain. Yeah, so lightning. Yeah. Lightning and or whatever lightning connects. Yeah. Whatever.

Yeah, some e-cash systems or something like that. Who knows? But yeah, I agree. Our grandchildren will likely never interact on chain whatsoever, unless you time lock a full Bitcoin for them. But with that, I'll put a bow on the time lock thing. I think it's very interesting to kind of posit how things could turn out in that eventuality. But we're going to do a rotation.

I'm going to I think I'm going to actually toss it to Casha first because I feel like I haven't gotten to hear as much from you yet. So I'm going to just queue you up with a same question everybody's going to get and

I'm going to say, why are you bullish? Take it away. Okay. There are actually so many reasons to be bullish on and I'm actually not talking about price that some was I think referring at the beginning of our talk. So, okay, picture that.

In Warsaw, a symbol of Warsaw is this grand, monstrous, really brutal building that was gifted to us by Stalin. And this is the most recognizable building in Warsaw's second tallest, second tallest in Poland still, and probably most recognizable in whole Poland. And now it's, I'm talking about it because it's a symbol, a certain symbol of centralization and some dark, murky times for us when Poland was the satellite country of the USSR. And now for three days in two months' time, we are taking over this monstrous building to hold festivities, to celebrate decentralization. So I'm actually very bullish on the upcoming Bitcoin Film Fest, our second edition of the Bitcoin Film Fest that will be also met with the European Halving Party. And so not only we will celebrate decentralization, but also the way we like to think about it, and I'm so happy to see so many of my teammates from Bitcoin Film Fest.

So the way we like to think about it is that, okay, when it comes to Halving, a nice comparison is to Greek Olympics. So Olympics, Olympic games marked actually Greek calendar. And halving can constitute a similar important date in our calendar. So right now we are challenging ourselves to come up with a tradition that will stay with us for a for some longer time so we can establish something and celebrate it across the globe. And in 40 years time, 80 years time, and even more than that, that will be something that will be engraved there

in the history. So I'm curious whether you guys have any ideas on how to celebrate having. Like we came up with evolving games, but they include various things, like everything starting from half marathon, 21 kilometers, of course, some other games. But Benny wanted to run. And I'm not too good with runs, maybe with a, maybe with a few exceptions.

I'm a terrible runner. I mean, again, I'm a little jealous because I would love to attend. It's a bit of a hop for me to get over there this year. But again, I love that it's also coming along with the having here. But like the, I mean, the film festival itself, can you mention a little bit? So tell me more about it. Yeah, okay, so I wonder, when it comes to running, I'm actually cool with running. And by the way, the formula for our half marathon, 21 kilometers, is pretty late back.

So you won't have to make it like in one time. So we will have whole three days to sort of run the whole distance. But yeah, I was thinking because then you ask for a run for a run, And like, so I think on a to stop with the self-promote, I think, I wanted to actually share with you my thought on the importance of helping out and contributing to Bitcoin culture and art in general, because if we think of Bitcoin as this radically new economic system that will affect all the layers of a society, And now as we were talking like we can sort of foresee what how the world will look like, but it's all pure speculation, right?

So to accommodate people to this change, a huge societal change, we need art because if you think of what art actually is, what art constitutes, it's also about just getting ready for the future, jumping into the unknown, facilitating this unknown, It's about changing perception and changing the consciousness of the society. And we are very early with Bitcoin art, of course. Earlier, it's early on for Bitcoin itself. But sometimes I don't think it's appreciated enough, the role of it, in the community. I'm curious what you think about it. And especially with the fact that, you know, if you think of Bitcoin,

like Bitcoin by nature doesn't have a... doesn't have a marketing department, right? So we sort of are marketing department for Bitcoin, whether it is like lobbying for Bitcoin at my job to politicians or whether it is with initiatives like Bitcoin FilmFense and many great artists in the space. Yeah, so that's my run, I guess. I love it. I mean, I've got to say the creative people in the Bitcoin space have been absolutely killing it lately. There's so many talented people that are really bubbling to the top. It's every other day that I'm seeing some incredible new, whether it be, again, in the context of films, I mean, first of all, I loved Pierre's. I've seen so many fantastic films put together.

I got to give a shout out to, I love stuff that, you know, Max DeMarco is doing. I love stuff that Bitcoin shooter. I really like Julian who's kinetic finance. He does some incredible stuff too. There's just, again, I'm just rattling off quick names here,

but there's so many very, very talented people in and around just the film space, but physical artists as well, right? Like I love seeing some of the, some of the, you know, like political commentary that's like entwined with

or societal commentary that gets entwined. with Bitcoin art. One of my favorite artists that I'm friends with is Madex, and I think he does some incredible, very unique pieces. And there's so many that I think, again, fractal and crypt and crypt and cryptoograffiti, and there's just some very unique thinkers out there in the space and more up and coming. And so I think you're funny enough, reading the Bitcoin standard for the first time, one of the things that I was most defensive about was the part about art and fiat art.

But as time goes on, I'm kind of realizing that there was something there. I know that art is subjective, but also I think there was something there to that in that, you know there's there's art that takes time and skill and then there's there's art that takes time and skill and then there's there's art that is is so subjective that you begin to truly question like I live in a city called Calgary and the the government basically enforces that if you if you create any sort of public infrastructure project, you must, you must, as part of your budget, install some art. And some of the monstrosities that have resulted in this, it's basically, like, it's so rigged. Like, it's like, oh, can I get my buddy of a buddy of a buddy to do?

We literally have on one of our highways, like an 80-foot blue ring, and it's that's all it. It's a blue circle stood up that is just like a pipe. And it cost like millions of dollars. So, like this is the kind of stuff where I think like, yeah, that fiat art thing was, I think safe was on to something there. But yeah, you start you're starting to see the low time preference come in from the creatives in the Bitcoin space and to again, and I've quoted this in numerous times, but Madex has a really good point in that as somebody creating anything, any sort of product in and around the Bitcoin space, when you're getting people to spend Bitcoin on it, if you're making a shit product, you will not retain your customers beyond the initial sale because they're spending money that actually holds value over time. time and if they feel that they've wasted it on something, they will never purchase that thing again or never come to you to make a purchase again. So your job is to take your game to the next level to convince people to part with their sats. I think that's super awesome. And again,

I see DirtyCoyne very excited to see that. I haven't seen that one yet, but I was very excited for draw we think going is actually premiering at a bitcon film fest yeah so we are excited about this as well well then if i may like uh regarding what you said i think well with bitcoin art it's um it's just uh i'm full of i'm still full of understanding in terms of like again like it's it's it's very early for bitcoin art it's it's a teenager still let's say yes it's in its teens and and and and we are even in the movie industry that things get more metaphorical because, you know, initially there was just art with like screaming flashy letter B and right now is more metaphorical, which is also, I think, coherent to like philosophy of Bitcoin because, you know, you go and figure out for yourself.

So it's good that art will not scream in your face. Yeah. Yeah. Subtledy needs to be mastered, I think. And again, I guess it speaks to the point of you used to be able to get away with slapping a bee on something and making a sale. But that time is going away. People aren't going to buy some trinkety garbage just because you put a bee on it. They're looking for something deeper than that. I don't, I used to get like Bitcoin shirts and stuff pretty regularly. Now I'm. I'm, look, if I get anything that is related to Bitcoin, I tend to like it to have some sort of like a hidden meaning or like a, like a niche meme kind of thing where I get that moment of somebody looks at and goes, oh, like I prefer that kind of underlying message as opposed to just the blatant Bitcoin. I, if I could like, I didn't know about the Bitcoin. Bitcoin Film Fest. So that's really cool. Congrats. I wish I could go to that. That's amazing. But I think it's extremely bullish that there's more Bitcoin films because, I mean, my job, like I could share the data and charts and talk about like a long research report all day,

but nothing will get people more interested in Bitcoin than really good storytelling and really good art and films. I mean, if there's one really good film that captures the attention of the broader public and resonates with them and gets them on Bitcoin's side, that could do more than any kind of number grow up or anything because it can start to get them to think about it and educate them. And so to see more film being made and more art, it makes me really bullish about Bitcoin's adoption because there are some really incredibly talented filmmakers and artists in the Bitcoin community. And I know dirty money, like I haven't seen it,

but I've met the individual who's making that film. And I'm so bullish on that. I was a part of Pierre's film, really excited for that. So I wish I could go. I'm really excited for you guys. Please come. Please come. Also, the stars are aligning in favor of the date we chose

because it's on between 19 and 21 of April. And it might be 20. And for us, it was actually, the choice was, we just get on the magical properties of Bitcoin because we we will have four halving, okay? And then and then it's block 840,000, which divided by two gives you 420. So 20 April it is. And even if even if the having hits on the 21st, that's okay too. And in 19, by the way, okay, well, I'll say that my last tangent.

So on 19th, we also celebrate the first, well, the first trip on LSD, so Albert Hoffman's bicycle day. And we will also cheer to that and have something different and psychedelic. So it's just not your typical conference. It will be all about just art and celebration and just getting to know each other better. That's amazing. That's really cool. I so I want to ask of Viv because again in in relation to the creatives in and around the Bitcoin space and these people that are so passionate and conveying their messages in different ways is there is there a story or a person that you've spoken to that you're like I wish this was a film is it are there's people's stories that stand out to you I think so

I think so I think I would really love to watch a Bitcoin themed rom-com for example We have What would that be? Well we have so many people That are Fun of it

I love how your guys are Talking about this and you're going to see When I get to my term That you're echoing to my Point of why I'm bullish right left And center right People We're all humans

and we love. And as Bitcoiners, there are so many love stories that we see as Bitcoiners, especially now we're really embracing the family value and embracing us being human and what that means with Bitcoin as a base layer. And like you said, in the next set, the subtlety would really be the defining factor of how people are going to be receptive about it, either for Bitcoiners or for pre-coiners to come. So anything that's a film talking about what it's like to be human with the Bitcoin, as the base layer, either there are two Bitcoiners meet each other in the wild and they connect

because they're Bitcoiners and then they get married and they go through hardships and ups and downs and having and go to the, let's say, having a film festival together and fun and love there. You just never know. There's so many possible great stories to be happened. And I'm sure in the upcoming, you know, all of the big quick conferences or film festivals in these 21, 21 kilometer marathon runs, they are definitely going to be some love story. That's going to happen. And I wish there are people who are there to document this because I love to see, for example. So I think it will happen. It will happen from documentary to more fictional stories, but they're.

absolutely relevant to not only Bitcoiners, but also everybody else. And then with that and then the Bitcoin sign all over with the Bitcoin values embodied in these films, more people are going to start get curious about Bitcoin. I can't wait. Yeah, I like that. I like that your initial is a Bitcoin rom-com, which I mean, you know, I always think sci-fi, but I guess rom-com makes the most sense because Bitcoiners are popping out babies. left, right, and center.

So it's not natural. At least someone's doing it, right? Yeah. I also would love to see, and I got to give a shout to Consensus Network and their bookshop because I really, I'm kind of once in a while poking through, they released a book, and it's like an anthology series called 21 Futures. and it's all like self-contained futuristic stories about Bitcoin

and how the world could be in the future. It's pretty cool. And they've got all these different authors compiled. I would love to see some of those in film form as well. I think it would be super cool. But I don't know. Sam, what do you want in a Bitcoin movie? Man, I always thought of Bitcoin movies.

I was the same as you, like a sci-fi. kind of unfortunately I always think of more of like a traconian future where Fiat's won and like the Bitcoiners have gone underground and it's like this last speaking of hope of having a money that's uncontrollable and a protocol that can't be

manipulated or tampered with and there's some kind of like freedom underground uprising and these people are enabled by Bitcoin and they win against this tyrannical institution you know that that's where my mind always goes like drones flying around and that there's

this underground, a group of people fighting back and Bitcoin's their weapon, you know? I've got, okay, I've got a pitch. I'm doing it here, and I want somebody to make this. This one for free, everyone, okay? Okay, the inflation bug. It requires a hard fork eventually. And so as that approaches, I would love to see a futuristic movie in Bitcoin. based around we've had this amazing utopia for, you know, for like 50, 60 years.

And humanity has worked out its problems. We're living in this utopian society. But as the inflation bug approaches and it's going to require a hard fork, all of a sudden you start to get all these political, like these clicks of people trying to influence the fork. shove in, like they do with bills often now, shove in additional features or just not fix the inflation bug so that they can allocate capital as they see fit and have it to be an inflationary. I would love to see a story in and around the conniving people trying to insert their values into a Bitcoin hard fork when that comes to fruition.

What about like that? Say that again? Oh, I was just saying for anyone who want to time lock some sets for those wonderful projects like DM between Film Fest. Yeah, there you go. That's what I was going to say. Sailor just time locks his Bitcoin and then it's the great unlock of what happens. That's the movie. The whole world just waits. That would be pretty awesome.

Awesome. Well, I love that. So Bitcoinfilmfest.com is where people can go to find out about it. And we'll... Butcom plus European Halving Party.com. And European Halvingparty.com. Okay, awesome. Well, that's very exciting.

And I encourage if you can make it over there, do it. I'm sure it's going to be an exciting time. I'm kind of jealous if I didn't have so many. in and out of town plans already, I would have just gone and booked it right now. So that's awesome. All right. Well, with that,

we're going to do another rotation. I think Viv, since this was kind of, you were alluding to the fact that it was playing into your reason. I think I'm going to pass it to you next. Sorry, Sam, you're getting chafed to the end here.

All good. But I'm going to toss it to Viv next And I'll cue you up for the same question. Why are you bullish? All right. Well, I'm bullish as Bitcoiners are starting to think about aspect that are beyond money. And we see this trend lately. Either that's quitting seed oil or a carnivode diet or gravitating towards a more remote lifestyle

or family values. And these are all evidence of how Bitcoiners are shifting attention from just Bitcoin and money to different aspects in our lives where it's not Bitcoin related. It's about figuring out how to live our lives using Bitcoin as a base layer, taking care of ourselves and loved ones and start to stretch our time preference from how do I pay off my seat alone to how do I live better as a human in my lifetime and save and pass on generational wealth for my future generations. And I think it's going to that the transformation is starting to take form.

It wasn't a trend when I entered the world of Bitcoin, three years ago, I have to say, and I'm so glad to see this is the case because I'm someone who was very lucky to got a Bitcoin job first and then became a Bitcoiner along the way. And most people don't have, most people don't have that privilege. So I'm extremely grateful for that. But if it wasn't for that opportunity, it would have taken me years to really come around to Bitcoin with completely different circumstances. And that being said, if that was the.

case, then my life would probably go down to a very different path. And I think this trend, like in terms of why I'm bullish, the argument here is that I believe Bitcoin is the vehicle and not the destination. And I think Bitcoiners need to hear that and they need to understand that. And I'm starting to see with all of the trend of taking care of ourselves, trying to better our lives as people. People are starting to come around with that. And even if and even though Bitcoin is the path to freedom and happiness, I think my take here is that we are still the ones who are actually walking that path. There's no one magic peel that automatically solve all over life problems.

So we even with Bitcoin as the base layer, even with stacking sets and staying humble, we still need to live our lives on a daily basis to, embody what it means to live under the Bitcoin Valley. We're the ones we're walking that pass. And I see this trend of using Bitcoin as a vehicle at the base layer. I think it will end up introducing the next wave of Bitcoin adoption. And I think it's going to be more than anything that we've seen in previous cycles. And why is that? Because we're all human.

If we think about and looking at the current population of Bitcoiners, most of them, Either they're interested in economics or technology. And this is why we're not seeing enough credit being given to artists, to films, to these creative aspects in Bitcoin. It's because the current set of Bitcoiners, they're more on the nerdy side. They're more on the technical side. And the numbers make more sense to them instead of the creatives. And those are different parts of the brain. we are all as humans naturally gravitate towards one way of functioning than other.

So it's perfectly natural. But if we think about it on the grand scheme of things, only a small privileged group of people are even positioned to become interested in these things. And Bitcoin is so much more than that. So if you're someone in a very tricky situation in your life and you have to work three jobs to just to put food on the table, to put a roof, over your head, then you're not going to have much time and energy to think about world's economics or what is the newest technology.

It's just not something it's on your mind. But on the other hand, there's room for everyone to find their own truths in Bitcoin and embody that as people. And we're all humans who live, eat, sleep, love, loose, long for freedom and connections, and even though sometimes we don't realize it or admit it, regardless of where we are, and who we are. And the conversations we see today, more and more so among Bitcoiners,

about lifestyle, love, friendship, potential, rom-com in Bitcoin, like diet, storytelling, circumstances, art, music, these things. These are the things that I feel strongly gravitate towards myself. And I believe there are more people will start to get resonated with these. Either there are Bitcoiners, and on Bitcoiners.

One requirement for any communication to happen is the need for common ground. This is like the one of the only thing I learned from my fancy degrees is that one, the requirement of any form of communication to happen is the need for a common ground. And there's no better common ground to gently onboard Bitcoin, onboard people onto the Bitcoin standard,

then just simply embrace and amplify the humanity side of it because we're all that. for better and worse, I guess. And the commonality I've seen in the Bitcoin space is that I have never, never seen one Bitcoiner who doesn't agree that their life was changed by Bitcoin. Never, everyone. And if you're actually one of those people, please leave a comment. Because it's not just a financial change. It's about how Bitcoiners view everything in life.

kind of like a near-sighted person, get a pair of glasses for the first time. And I believe more people will start to try this pair of corrective lens on. And all of a sudden, everything will look better, clear with more love, hope, freedom, and connections. And at the end of the day, I think this is what Bitcoin is all about. And this is what I'm here for. I love that you referred to understanding. any Bitcoin as putting on corrective lenses. It corrects the fiat distortion.

Yeah, I think, I mean, that's great. Again, everything that you're saying, I think kind of just boils down to general incentives, right? It doesn't fully stop self-destructive behavior, but it incentivizes you to be more constructive with your time and how you allocate the fruits of your labor and how you treat your own body and how you foster relationships with different people.

And it does make you think about things quite differently. And I think one of the main things is the realization that the difference between providing value for people or extracting value from other people to give to other people, right? Like one, one is you're voluntarily giving your time to do something altruistic. the other is you've dictated that somebody else will give up their time and pass it off as altruistic. And so I think this kind of shift in mentality where there is no such thing as a free lunch, because that is the reality of it. Somebody has to do some work somewhere to have any improvement in our existing situation. I think it again, the incentives line up where people start to understand value and value exchange. And that comes with a lot of great repercussions down the line when it comes to our behaviors.

So yeah, I'm curious everybody else's thoughts in and around this too. I love what you said there. Let's toss it to because Sam, I'll go to your reason after this. So let's go Sam first and then we'll go cash. Well, I think what she's touching on is that Bitcoin just allows people to save the fruit of their labor over time. And that lowers their time preference and lets them focus on more important things and makes them think more long term about building a family, about, you know, pursuing a passion,

whether that's like the creative arts or something where they don't have to focus on their day-to-day, just pay the bills. Like she said, you have to work three jobs. It's really difficult to even think past, you know, this month, this year, let alone five, 10 years in the future. And that's the beauty of Bitcoin of having a money that allows you to save over long periods of time. You can start to think about those things. And I think that's a really good thing for society because I think fiat currencies have stolen that from us. And you just look at how, you know, everyone thinks so short term nowadays.

And I don't think they realize that a lot of that is about the money. And so I agree with everything she says. I think she's kind of touching on the second order effects of what can happen when our entire global society has a money that can't be debased and actually preserves its purchasing power over time. Yeah. Cash, I'll let you chime in as well. Yeah, on what you some read from Vivian's run. Yeah, I just recently saw Knudt Svanholm saying that low and high time preference can be also. refer to the spectrum of love and fear. So, you know, when you have a low, high, low time preference,

only then you have actually space for, it's not tantamount to love, but only then you have space to love. But I think it actually goes, I think it, the way I see it is just that people evolve almost like spiritually as they adopt Bitcoin. And I think it's just because using Bitcoin, like using bitcoin to reason using bitcoin to filter the reality helps you to identify and expose i don't

know i would say like some second order effects of laws of universe right so um i i think of myself for example oftentimes or i would like to think of myself as life maximalists so so not only bitcoin maximalists so i think bitcoin is this most effective most effective expression of some universal values and of some best of some most beautiful best ideals that are and another thing that is interesting it's on a societal level because okay this is a very difficult quality to to lay out but there seems to be a connection between the nature of money and incentive an incentive for the society okay complicated quality of connection But even referring to the part of the world I come from, you know, we know how society operated when everything was centralized and there was no private property.

Bitcoin is the actually the first time that we have fully established property rights. So that will also, a society change will follow from this. I'm just not fully on board when it comes to diet because actually when I see, and I'm not saying that only because I'm a vegetarian. It's just that, you know, my conviction is that I'm not telling anyone to stick to any diet. So when I see some bitcoins being very bullish on eating meat and being, yeah, I'm not sure that's coherent with just like, yeah, let's just stick to whatever diet we all want. Yeah. And just treat your body well, I suppose. I do eat meat, but I also do have vegetables. And on occasion, I may have some grains. I know. But yeah, I mean, it's in kind of the grand scheme of things as well, Vivian, what you're talking about, how people kind of, shift their view and actually take action to make changes in their life.

I think the reason for the nihilism in the Fiat system and people living in the Fiat system and why you talk to a lot of Bikorners and they're actually quite hopeful for the future versus the existing system is because when you pour all of your blood, sweat, and tears into whatever job you're doing day and day out and you're remunerated in a unit and you've you've effectively valued your time at a certain amount of that unit and you're getting it and you're this is completely outside of the fact that you're having trouble keeping up with your with you know your standard of living and everything but technically what you're doing is when you spend all your time to earn a money and then you go and spend it, you're kind of communicating your values

when you do that, right? You're saying all of this time that I could have been doing anything else, I did it so that I could earn this money so that I could spend it on the following things. And so you're kind of in a way communicating value through that. And you expect to see, to a degree, some of your values reflected back at you from society, right? Like, you're You've had an impact on the world through, you know, building up some sort of wealth and then doing something. And you expect at least some of your values to be reflected back at you. But when you have a mechanism through which somebody can effectively undo all of those communicated values at the flip of a switch, at the push of a button, and basically print away. everything and debase.

You're actually debasing the desired society of everybody that had been putting in that work and expecting to see that those values reflected. You're basically saying, listen, we know that all of you like worked your asses off, poured your hearts and souls into back-breaking labor, and then went forth to spend the fruits of your labor to hopefully see society go in a direction that reflects your values. Well, we're going to undo like 50% of that right now in nothing and change the course of society based on where we think those resources are allocated best. And so it's no wonder, like when when you cannot communicate your values through the fruits of your labor, your values will degrade over time because it's like why have values if they're just not going to be reflected back? at me. And so I think you see this kind of unraveling of like a moral society because why have morals if society doesn't show them back? Exactly. The example and the storytelling are so powerful.

And I think this is a good place to chime in on the podcast I work on is called Live as Bitcoin. So I host and produce just this show is because I work in the industry for the past three years. And what I've seen is that the majority of Bitcoin content that's out there are very much about technology and economics, which is what to Bitcoiners, the current set of Bitcoiners are interested in. And that's totally fine. And we need all of these content to actually get ourselves on the ground, on a practical level, and understand what's going on from a practical standpoint. But I approach Bitcoin content in a slightly different approach, is that I talk to Bitcoiners, about their personal transformations.

What is their life before and after Bitcoin? How have their life and values shifted because of it? And I don't know if any of you have noticed is that when we hang out with Bitcoiners around us, oftentimes we realize where we catch ourselves talking about anything and everything but Bitcoin. We talk about relationships. We talk about friendship.

We talk about how to, you know, what to eat on a daily basis. when to wake up, but we don't really talk about Bitcoin. You will barely see the word Bitcoin comes up in the conversation. And this is the approach I'm taking on my show is that I have guests on my show, talk about parenting, talk about pregnancy, meeting a husband on Twitter, where I have Bitcoiners come on the show. We talk about death. We talk about truth.

And we talk about what it means to how the food system have been, impacted in a way that we're way less healthy than the previous generation, even just 50 years ago. And the Bitcoin narrative kind of just goes on the underlining instead of on the surface. And we really start to think about what is like to live as a Bitcoiner. And I don't consider the show just for Bitcoiners, even though that you will really start to get to the guest personally because I ask very personal questions. So it's a great place for Bitcoiners to come together. and handouts and know the Bitcoiners that we already know on a more personal level,

but it's also a good place for us to try to orange pill others, because we're not talking about Bitcoin per se, and if you think about it, and let's face it, if I'm not interested in something, I'm not going to sit down and spend two hours watch a video or an interview that I just have absolutely no interest in. This is just a reality, But if we talk about something that's more personally relatable, and if people start to see that, oh, she's my age, she lives in a similar area than I am, and then she's a Bitcoiner.

And this is how she's lived her life, and that's better than mine. And I wish I could be like her financially, emotionally, I want to be as healthy as her. And she's a Bitcoiner. So what is this Bitcoin thing? Let me look into it, because I want to live that life. It's basically how the entire, Kay, kind of key opinion leaders we see for, you know, body image. It's the same concept.

We want to make Bitcoin a personally relatable thing and actually show by example to people through stories, personal transformations that you can live a better life with Bitcoin. It's that simple. And then because we're humans. And then we want to live, you know, better. We want to be healthier. We want to be freer with more connections and happier. And Bitcoin can be a vehicle for us to go there.

And most people, we work in the industry, so we see a lot of Bitcoiners around us. We interact with a lot of them. But there are so many Bitcoiners out there. They're the only Bitcoiners in their family. They are getting bombarded on dinner table, on Christmas, Thanksgiving, feeling soul. kind of isolated from the rest of the world, feeling lonely while being convicted.

So I want to provide a space where people can come together and see there are others just like you living their lives, struggling or not with Bitcoin. And they're trying to do their best on a daily basis with Bitcoin. You're not the only one. So have some conviction, have some companionship, doing it in a non-toxic way. unpersonal way. So that's that's the aim of the show. I like that. Again, um, I think the proof will be in the pudding with a lot of a lot of people where it'll be like, geez, why is there this one cohort of people whose lives are just pretty great right now? Why is there, why is that

group of people so happy and flourishing and, uh, and the rest of society is kind of, yeah, flailing. Um, No, that's great. And again, anybody that wants to check it out, what's the best place to find? So obviously, I had the YouTube up there, Life with Bitcoin, and then there's the audio podcast as well. Yeah, it's basically everywhere you find your podcast. It's on YouTube called Live With Bitcoin Podcast. On Twitter is LifeW Bitcoin. The handle is LifeW Bitcoin.

And then it's a fountain for value for value. It's also on everywhere where you typically get your audio podcast. Nice. That's awesome. Go check it out, everybody. And yeah, that's great. I'm glad we got to chat about that. I'm going to, I guess, put a bow on this topic,

and we'll do a final rotation here. And we're going to toss it to Sam. And Sam, I'm going to cue you with the exact same question. Why are you bullish? Well, I'm bullish that you have over 100,000 subscribers now, man. It's a good thing for Bitcoin, to be honest with you. That elbow's got to pick you up. Yeah, learn about how to actually use Bitcoin.

Well, I feel like, look, I love everything that we've talked about. It's why I keep working in Bitcoin. It's why I'm passionate about Bitcoin. But I feel like the price gets a bad rep because if we think about how this cohort of people is actually going to flourish, the reality is that Bitcoin's price is going to have to keep going up and outpace the rate of currency to basement. If we are holding a money that doesn't turn out to be able to hold its purchasing power and it goes down for the next five to 10 years, it's going to be really hard for us to think long term. Now, I don't think that's going to happen.

I'm just trying to say that price isn't very important. And so I'm going to talk about the price because it is very, very important. You're allowed to do that on why are we bullish? Yeah, I mean, if the price goes down, I mean, it's going to be it, it's going to be hard to think long term. But the fact is, is that they keep printing money and that there's only 21 million. And so when we look out into the future, the price is likely going to go up. And the people that hold Bitcoin and are able to preserve their purchasing power and the fruits of their labor are going to be able to do all these wonderful things and think more long term and all these things. And so when I think about the price today, it's actually, it's in an amazing spot.

I've never really seen a setup like this in all of Bitcoin's history. There's a statistic from my friend Zach at Swan. He said that Bitcoin's price has only been above today 127 days in its entire existence. And when it was above these price levels, it was the end of the 2020 bowl cycle. It was very, very late cycle. behavior, exuberance, there was, there's JPEG selling for millions of dollars. You saw all these speculators come in. They didn't know what the heck Bitcoin was. They were just trying to chase gains. Saw a very different environment. You had inflation rising. You had the Fed talking about increasing

interest rates. The halving was like almost a year and a half behind us. It's very different today. We're coming out of the bare market. We're above 50K. We're heading into the halving. The Fed's talking about cutting rates. There's still print. like crazy. The government's still spending. So all these things together, basically the new the new retail investors, they're not here yet. It's only the long term hodlers with conviction that have held through this bear market, which has been pretty volatile. It's been a very long, volatile bear market. That's how we got up to 50K now. It's very different than 2021. And so it's the sign that this is actually the beginning of the next bull cycle. And then when you think about

price it's when i'm talking to pension fund managers or financial advisors when i can say to them hey anybody who's held this thing for four years is in the green or look at the compound annual growth rate of 44 percent over the last you know five seven 10 years um that wakes them up and they gets them really excited if i said that it was negative i don't think that they would listen to really uh you know why bitcoin's important and so to look at the price and the situation and the setup right now. And then you have other things like ETFs and all like I don't have to get into this stuff. But it's incredibly bullish situation. I don't think I've ever seen a setup like this. And I've in the seven years that I've been following this space. And then if Bitcoin keeps going

up, it's going to bring more people to us because that's like the ultimate scoreboard of Bitcoin's adoption is its price. And if it keeps going up, it's going to attract more people, more people are going to learn about it. And then that strengthens the network. It just, you know, increases the adoption rate. And then more and more people can do all these wonderful things that we think it can, you know, holding the sound money brings about to our personal lives, like thinking long term, like thinking about having families. And that just gets me like incredibly bullish.

And so anyway, wanted to give a shout out to the price. And we're looking really, really bullish for the next 12 to 24 months. And that is bullish for Bitcoin. I have got to say, and we were chatting a little bit before we got in here. I feel odd that we're already sitting where we are and we're two months pre-having. It feels weird to me because I feel like I haven't really experienced this at this kind of point in a cycle where it's like it feels like we're high, but I'm not experiencing. I tweeted the other day. I was like, are you guys getting the calls or the texts?

hey, are, you know, is it is now a good time to buy Bitcoin? I'm not getting that. I'm not getting the every, everybody in their grandmother's trying to ask about Bitcoin. I'm not feeling that whatsoever. So it seems like it's mostly like an entirely different kind of class of people that is currently buying Bitcoin. And yeah, retail to see like your regular kind of follow in people.

They're not even. They're not even close here. And then once they come in and then they can find Vivian's podcast and start to meet all these great people that have benefited from Bitcoin holding it over the last couple of years. I mean, that's great. I mean, it's going to be to see how Bitcoin transforms society by having people being able to save it in a money that actually appreciates in value over time. I mean, it's going to be an incredible thing to witness and just be in the front row. It's what keeps me so excited. I mean, for so long, people have been paid in money that loses value.

And the effects of that are felt everywhere, but it's little understood by most people. But it's going to be just this revolution that comes about. It's going to be a renaissance. I also love that there's an entire group of people that, I guess, kind of earn their stripes that are now, for the first time. It's like when you've been through a bear market with a fellow bitcoiner, you come up the other side of that and you just have this like silent knowing that you weathered the storm together.

And so there's just kind of this a bit of camaraderie of like, yeah, you stuck around. Cool. Good for you. You earned it now. And so especially the people that were like born into a bear market and that all they've ever known is pain. And now for the first time, you're like, why is that? that candle's not red what's what's going on here like that you know I I feel for those people

that are now for the first time just being like oh it does go up yeah I mean props to the 20 class of 2021 I mean if you're still around you definitely earned your stripes I would say yeah I'd say That would be. Yeah. It's up to you. I feel like you got not only a stunted bull run, but like a bloody, unrelenting bear market. So like you kind of caught it like both ways there.

And weathering that storm and finding the signal through the noise and all of that is, is impressive. So good for you. Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, Vivian definitely found the signal in the bear market. I mean, she, yeah, that's where when you get through all the price and everything and get to the bottom of why Bitcoin's important, it's what Vivian's talking about, you know. But, but you know why I got this far is because I was, I've been so ignorant of price.

Like, I'm not a numbers person. I'm looking at prize and even news gives me a lot of anxiety if I have to. say and this is partially why I'm also focusing on the human side of Bitcoin because for the longest time I was thinking about how can I contribute to the space and make content and I don't want to like if I come out if I come out and be a economic or technology experts then I wouldn't I would never feel comfortable or you know I would never feel adequate to do that because I don't have the knowledge or the interest and personally I avoid depressing content and I think this is unfortunately the world that we're living in um so I'm very very

very, very ignorant of the prize. And I gained so much conviction when I realized the freedom aspect of it. I'm like like Keisha, she's a life maximalist. I'm kind of a freedom maximalist. And when I realize what Bitcoin means for having options and freedom, then that's when I was completely sold on the concept. And echoing back to we're so close to having, but nobody's asking about it, I think having for us, Bitcoiners were in the circle line enough and we understand the fundamentals of Bitcoin. And that seems kind of obvious, intuitive to us. But don't forget from outsiders perspective for people who are not yet Bitcoiners, even if they understand the concept of having,

you need to really understand the full picture and the complete impact if you've understood the entire set of the values. that's in Bitcoin. So as intuitive as it might be, it's actually not that intuitive. And oftentimes I try to remind myself all the time when I try to talk to people about Bitcoin, is that talk to them at their eye level,

like what they are seeing is important to help them understand what Bitcoin means. And if I try to project my view on Bitcoin or my understanding of Bitcoin with what I know, with Bitcoiners know, then we're going to constantly get frustrated. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's, yeah, like, price-wise and the impact that, you know, a lot of this stuff has on people,

it can pull out some interesting things. I did want to touch quick. I know, Sam, we're kind of coming down to the wire on your time. You got to jump here. but I do want to kind of round things out in and around this and get cashless thoughts really quick here. But I think in general there's Bitcoin's volatility is a test of your resolve. And if you can, again, find that signal through the noise, it kind of helps you be a more centered person. And, you know, if you can make it through the volatility of something like that or this early on, that it changes a little bit of how you look at things.

The other thing I just wanted to touch on regarding the having is I kind of am looking forward to, as Cash was saying earlier, Bitcoin's having over time, becoming more of like a, like a, a, a, a whole. holiday type, just a general celebration because the economic impact of a having will diminish over time, right? Like when it goes from, you know, two sets per block to one, that's going to have no economic impact. But if we're still using Bitcoin at that point, it will have a very, very symbolic meaning. And I think it'll be just like a global celebration. And people will just to get together, even after the last having, I still think that every, you know, every 240,000 blocks, there's going to be a massive celebration. And I think that will continue on because it'll be a celebration of the escape from an oppressive monetary regime that stole from society. So I'm excited for that.

Cash, I'll let you chime in a little bit, anything that you had to say in and around what Sam had and then we'll round out. Oh, I know we're running out of time. Well, I am so ignorant when it comes to number. I'm actually not checking the price of Bitcoin ever, really. It just reaches me on Twitter. But I myself, like I'm totally ignorant. And I like, by the way, like Green Money wrote here in the comments.

And I like this criteria to measure the success. Like when the grandma asks about Bitcoin, the top is in. Like, my grandmother actually already asked me, but I'm waiting for grandmas at large to start asking about Bitcoin. But just very briefly, like, we don't have time to discuss it. But I think it's an interesting question of, like, what drives adoption? Sam, you said that you think that this price will drive adoption really high. I don't doubt it, but I actually, for example, I come from a human rights side of things.

So just recently, an interesting number popped up. Like, don't quote me on this, but I think I saw that, like, like around 80% of transaction under $1,000 come from Africa. So to me, I look at more on maybe those numbers that actually show the utility of this beautiful technology. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think that that will continue to trend that way too. It's the unique thing about Bitcoin is it's different things to many different people, you know.

The person whose job it is to protect the purchasing power of large swaths of capital sees it as one thing. The person who is getting their bank account shut down by the Canadian government, it's something entirely different. And the person who is completely unbanked in sub-Saharan Africa that has no access to financial rails that suddenly does with no permission is entirely different. And so Bitcoin is a reflection of your value. and where you are at in your life.

And I think that's the best part of it because Bitcoin can be useful for everyone. So with that, we're going to round out. I'm just going to really quick go around and just ask if you have any final thoughts, any recommendation for somebody to check out anything. If there's something that crossed your radar in the last little bit that you think people would benefit from, feel for you to throw it out and also where to find you. So I'll go to Sam first. Any final thoughts, recommendations, where to find you, stuff to check out?

No, I just, I really enjoyed the conversation. I think these are the conversations I love to have. And you can find my work at swan.com. I write for the blog. I host Swan Signal Live, so you can check it out. We have a YouTube channel where that gets posted. And I'm on X all the time. So you can follow me at Sam Kala, S-A-L-H.

And yeah, it was just, it was great to talk with you guys and meet you guys. I love the conversation. Awesome. Well, thanks, man. And we'll toss it to Viv next. Any final thoughts, recommendations? Anything else? I guess my final thought is stay positive, everybody.

As Bitcoiners, we're used to being, having never a dull day. And sometimes the things are not always good. I just want to shout out to everyone. Kudos to you. Thanks for stuck around. It's for the better and we're going to see it. You can find me on Twitter at BTC VIF. I am shadow band on Twitter, by the way.

So you have to be a little bit more persistent on finding the handle and actually go to directly to the profile at BTC Vith. And then through there you can find my podcast live with Bitcoin. The handle is LiveW Bitcoin. And then you can also find me on YouTube. I have 170 or social swipers after seven months. So please show some love. I really appreciate that. And yeah, feel free to reach out anytime.

And I focus on the human set of Bitcoin. And great to see all of you today. And hope to see everybody in person right soon. Awesome. Let's pump those numbers up. Everybody go give Viv a sub. And everybody's Twitter handle is in the show description as well. But we'll toss it to Kasha.

Again, any final thoughts, recommendations, anything you want to throw out there. Oh, just if you would like to reach us out, I won't give my private Twitter. I'm not a frequent there and also my last name is unpronounceable really. I had a chill day with it. So go to Film Fest BTC at Twitter and then, guys, if you have ideas, if anyone has ideas on a good proper halving celebration, post your idea with the hashtag halving party and we'll be happy to view it. And perhaps we can celebrate it in that way.

I love it. All right. Well, that's great. Thank you again, all for being here. I really appreciate your time spending a bit of your Friday evening with me getting bullish. I appreciate you all. Everybody that's watching again, go give these guys a follow and go check out what they're doing. And yeah, have a great weekend, guys.

You're all welcome back anytime. You too. Thank you. Have a great weekend. Thanks, then. Bye. Bye, bye. See you later.

Bye, guys. Awesome. All right. And everybody, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for joining me. Again, give everybody that was on the show. I'll follow their linked down below.

And from there, you'll be able to find everything else that they've been working on. Of course, I hope you guys all have a great weekend as well. If you want to help with the show, like, subscribe, share all the regular stuff. And of course, you can hit up their previously mentioned sponsors

in these show notes as well. And then finally, again, if you're sorting through all the tutorials, there's, again, eight years where the stuff there to help you through anything related to Bitcoin, get yourself self-sovereign and learning how to self-custy.

But if all of that free stuff isn't cutting it and you do need a little bit of personal attention, you need some of the direct handholding and human interaction, you can reach out to me on my website, BTCsessions.ca. There's a QR code on the screen right now that you can scan or you can just go directly to the website. Either way, guys, I'll cap it off there.

Have a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. See you guys all next time for your daily session.