BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH: Katie the Russian, Bram Kanstein, Nico Moran ep424

Episode Date: July 6, 2024

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How's it going, everybody? You've got a better yo than me, I think. Man, I'm just, I'm just hyped to be in Canada. We went to a lake. It was, it's apparently it's summer here, but the water is still really, really cold. It's freezing. Ben went on jet skis. I stood on the dock and watched.

But, yeah, no, it was a lot of fun. You were there in spirit. Yeah, it's been a good time. You've got another day here. We're going to go to the mountains. We just wrapped up the, the Bitcoin rodeo here in Calgary. We've had a blast.

There's a sat market. We did all kinds of awesome stuff. And now we're here doing Why Are We Bullish live. And we got a couple additional guests joining us. They're in the wings right now. It's going to be a lot of fun. But before we dive into that, of course, this is actually live. And so we're both going to defer to our good friend Bill here, maybe.

We'll do it in live. Do it live. I can write it and we'll do it live. The fucking thing sucks. Yeah. Of course, if you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share, all those things. They help a tonne getting this content in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben. He is Nico with the BTC sessions.

This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, we're going to take a quick look at where we are in the market. As everybody, is everybody all scared or you're all dumping your coins? It's over, pack it up. Bitcoin's going to zero. Obviously it's dead. So this is timechain calendar.com. We are sitting at 56,503 dollars per coin.

A single US dollar, here's the positive part. We'll grab you 1,770 sats in terms of fees, only 14 sats per byte for next block. And in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.72 million of them, that's 93.91% of the total supply. We're going to give a quick shout out to our sponsors of the show, and we'll be back in just a moment. Mission to enable independence by being one of the easiest and quickest ways to purchase Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S. And the best part about it, every buy goes directly into your own self-custody. They never hold your coins. You can add a Bitcoin address as part of onboarding.

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And on top of this, they have plenty of other goodies including the Mark 4, the tab signer, open dimes, the blog clock, and much more. If you head over to their website, make sure you use code BTC sessions at checkout to get a nice discount. Links are in the show notes down below. All right, and we are back in, and we're going to be bringing in our guests, of course, my co-host with the most, Mr. Nico Moran. Thanks for being here, man. Dude, excited to be here back in Canada second time and already excited to come back the third time. Hell yeah. We'll be doing it. And let's get our other guests in here. I'm going to bring them both up at the same time. We'll do a quick round of interest. People already know what's up. They know who you are.

Yeah, I'm Nico. Host, Assembly, Nick. Follow, subscribe. Yeah, all that good stuff. And we're going to bring in simultaneously, Katie and Bram. Thank you both for joining us. So excited to have you. Let's do a quick round of intro so you guys can introduce yourselves and what you do if anybody's unfamiliar. So Katie, I'll toss it to you first. Give yourself a quick intro. What's up guys? Happy to be here. I'm Katie. I'm founder and CEO of Plan B Passberg, where we held Bitcoiners all over the world to obtain second citizenship. That's what's up. Hell yeah. I feel like I need one of those being in Canada. So being in Canada, yeah. We'll be chatting, I think. Bram, I'll toss it down to you as well. Can you give yourself a quick intro? Yeah, what's up, guys? Happy to join. My name is. Bram, I am the host of the podcast, Bitcoin for Millennials. And as I just said, before we started, it's midnight here. So it's a midnight party for me.

I love it. You're a trooper. It's always those European guests that, uh, that, that kind of, uh, get, get left out to the wolves, uh, in terms of timing of this show. I'm glad that you are hung in there and decided to do it. So thanks, man. I appreciate it. How is awesome.

Okay. So we're, we're going to. How old are millennials? Millennials are millennials. Yeah, then I have to then I have to check. The oldest millennials are like 41, 42. And the youngest are, I think, around 26. I can do a quick Google, but something, something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm, I'm somewhere in the middle there. I won't reveal exactly. We'll just assume the youngest, right? We'll just go with 26. Yes. And is 52.

All right. Well, we're going to dive right in. Anybody watching that's unfamiliar, this is Why Are We Bullish, a pretty simple concept to the show. The idea is each one of us comes with a reason for being bullish. That might be, it really could take any form. It could be a personal experience, maybe a book that we read, something that we watched, maybe even an app or a device that we've tried.

It could be really whatever floats our boat at the moment. So the flow of the show is pretty simple. Number one, somebody's going to drop their reason for being bullish. This is their chance to rant on whatever is currently exciting for them. Number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason, comments, questions, discussions, whatever rabbit holes we decide to go down. And then when we finish that topic, number three, we're going to rotate to the next person until we've all had a turn. So pretty simple, reason, riff, rotate, and we're off to the races. So I will get us started today.

And my reason for being bullish is actually in and around developments in lightning that have been happening, or at least kind of push to the forefront this week that I'm excited about. And that is something called Bolt 12. And those that have played around with lightning will be familiar with the idea that typically you have to generate some type of an invoice. and if you post a QR code that can expire eventually, you don't really have those static QR codes. Like you could in Bitcoin,

even though it's not great to have a static QR code with an on-chain address, you could do it if you needed to. While Bolt 12 changes that and does allow you to have a static QR payment code that actually affords you better privacy than doing it on-chain, and that payment code can be reused as many times as you like.

And the reason I'm excited about it is because Phoenix wallet, one of my favorite mobile lightning wallets, has rolled that out. And simultaneously, Strike has like a little bit of a developer playground around that for all of these different implementations of lightning to help people be able to roll it out more quickly. And yeah, I just, I think, It's nice to be moving in my opinion in a much easier friendly direction for lightning,

not having to create an invoice that will eventually expire and all the troubles that come with that. And I look forward to playing with it and getting my hand dirty in and around the realm of Bolt 12. I still got to dig into it a little bit technically to better understand what's going on in the background there. but yeah, it's very promising. And the one thing that I'll say, too, I think L&D was kind of dragging their heels on implementing it because they're busy doing the LN URL thing. And, you know, they've got their hands full with some other stuff.

But this push and this Ellen, sorry, this Bolt 12 drop with Phoenix and a bunch of other people diving in now, I think that'll force the hand of LND into implementing it fast. So because you have a whole bunch of different standards for Lightning, now that people are starting to move on it, it's going to kind of force the hand of those that haven't bothered to implement them quicker. So I'm looking forward to it. So anyways, that's why I'm bullish.

That's why I'm excited. And yeah, I guess just generally, I'll open it up to you guys in terms of, I guess your experiences with lightning thus far. Are you familiar with the idea of a reusable payment code in lightning? Or like, you know, where are you at in your lightning journey? I'll leave it there and let you guys chime in. I used to be as much more active user of lightning. Like at the early days, you know, remember how you were doing Tipping me on Twitter.

And that was really big. Like, we were using lightning for every little comments. here and there and then I would buy cards. Where did we buy cards like that? I don't remember. But basically my Twitter tipping me would pay for all my coffees every month. I remember that. That was my

that much bill. All the coffee I bought this month was through the tipping me on Twitter. That was pretty cool. But these days, honestly, I've been only doing big payments. I'm kidding. I've been bawling too much to notice micro payments, so that's just not for me anymore.

No, truly, maybe I became a worse Bitcoiner ever since I've become a mom because I used to be on top of all this little new developments and trying to really even force myself sometimes to try and utilize it. Now I'm just a mom who is into Bitcoin very much. That's, I mean, that is bullish in and of itself. I think that's one of the goals of having sound money is to not have to know every little thing that's happening in Bitcoin and be able to just lead a happy life with a family too. So, you know, I see that as pretty bullish.

I don't know. Bram, how about you? Where are you at in your lightning journey? Are you familiar with Bolt 12? Like, where are you at with all this stuff? I am a super lightning noob, if I'm honest. Like I still have the wallet of Satoshi with my random username at Wallet of Satoshi. So I think that is a good illustration of where I'm at in my lightning journey.

Is your name something like Bumble or something? I don't know. Random. Yeah. So I'm trying to. No, I'm actually using it because I do want my custom username. So what I do is so I also publish my podcast on Fountain and sometimes people, you know, send some donations.

And I always send those sets back to my, my wallet of Satoshi. And there's one person I pay with it, and that's my hairdresser. I kind of orange built him, and he's now accepting Bitcoin. So, yeah, it goes straight from fountain to my hairdresser. But that's basically where I'm at. So when you started talking Bull 12, I was like, oh, damn. I'm not read up on that.

That's okay. That's okay. A lot of people are at totally different places depending on how they're utilizing Bitcoin. Like I'm basically living on Bitcoin. I earn like 95% of my income is Bitcoin. And then day to day I'm like regularly making payments for stuff, whether it be like gift cards or whatever. And, you know, I've got people that do some work for me that I pay in Bitcoin. So it's a frequent thing for me.

So I need to be transacting more. So I suppose it makes sense that I'm using Lightning quite a bit. But in terms of saving mechanism, I recognize why if that's kind of somebody's main first and foremost use case, then yeah, you're going to gravitate to on chain and hardware and things like that and multi-sig. Yeah. But I mean, Nico, like where you've, I remember you calling me being like Ban Wall of Stoshu's band in the U.S. What do I do? Like where are you at now? What are you using? Yeah. So I'm, you know, I make content for a living, right?

So to me, you know, I just put all my energy into that. And in terms of just like the small payments of Bitcoin, and I don't think you can really cut corners on self-custodies or you have to learn that. And I spent the first couple of years that I was in Bitcoin learning that. But, you know, for convenience stake with like, you know, holding $500 or maybe $1,000 on a lightning wallet, so that you can spend it easily. Like for example, the SAP market that you just hosted, you know, a couple days ago,

I put $200 on my strike wallet and I went to every single vendor and I bought something that they had, right? Just to support the community. And in terms of like the best wallets so far right now that I'm really enjoying, of course, you know, the U.S. Rug pulled wallets. It's area, but Wallets Association got out of the U.S. to kind of avoid the whole regulatory BS. But my my favorites are the primal wallet, which is great. Get Albi is actually really awesome. And it's kind of tricky to connect it with Zeus.

But once you do, it's a really great wallet. But I got to say, man, the strike wallet is just absolutely incredible. I know it's K.C. I get that. But you can buy instantaneously. You can withdraw instantaneously. It functions like a lightning wallet. You can send.

You can receive. That's as a convenience maxi for. small payments. I got to say strike is really killing the game right now, which is weird because it's not it's not just a wallet. It's like an exchange. Yeah. Yeah. It's like all built together, right. But another thing also like one last thing, Ben, is it's getting to the point where lightning is is easy to use enough where I see myself regularly using it. Like in different situations. And even before the sat market, when I went to El Salvador, you know, I went out of my way. I was like, oh, you accept Bitcoin, lightning.

Yeah. It gave you a little, you know, little, you know, little, a little haptic feedback, at least the strike wallet. But I got to say, until lightning payments gets to the convenience of Apple Pay, which is like everyone has that NFC. Like you click the size of side of your phone. It goes, it makes you feel good. You do the face can and then you can pay for stuff.

Until lightning gets to that point. And I think it can. Yeah. You know, traditional Fiat payments for the convenient minded. seem to be leading in the pack right now. Yeah. In my opinion, I'm going to get canceled, but that's my opinion. In that Apple presentation of a few weeks ago, they actually showed this new

technology where you can like put the phones next to each other and then I don't know what it was. It was not payment, but I think maybe like airdrop or something, but there was some kind of technology where you put them like together just with a little space in between and then stuff could transfer. And then there were already people commenting on Twitter X. Like yeah, this is this is the lightning thing. The phone the phones have X and then you know they exchange contact information.

Yeah, yeah, really interesting of Apple. Was it that? Huh? Yeah, I thought like is this super fancy but apparently people talked about it like that. No, no, no, no. But I mean you can you can totally a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do that though. So I mean, like you're and we're starting to see that in and around lightning.

One of the merchants. So Katie and Bram, we had here in Calgary just on Monday, our third sat market. So I basically put together a bunch of merchants from all over my city. There's a 30 something merchants that all got together. And we did a big market and everybody at the market accepts Bitcoin. And so, you know, we get everybody paying in lightning and everything. And one of the merchants has used like a point-of-sale terminal with NFC and a preloaded NFC cards that can tap to pay with lightning. And so he's done this whole thing where people can come and if they want to preload a card and pay in cash and get a card and then go around to merchants and tap to pay.

So it's starting to get to the point where it can be easy like that. is just obviously not ubiquitous, but I like what I'm seeing. And the one last use case that I'll mention, the most important use case that Nico partook in yesterday, which is degenerate gambling, because last night there was a poker game, and I donated some sats to it because I'm horrible at poker. And Nico also donated some stats to it, but he's much better than I am. So yeah, I got lucky. No, but no, it is true because it was it was kind of surreal, right?

We all, you know, one player is the bank essentially and they function as the bank. And you all have to put, you know, your money in the bank, right? It's like, okay, so if everyone's chipping $100 and then you get $100 with the chips, right? You send it to one person. And on chain, like, especially with fees where they are right now, becomes a little bit unviable. And it was just so easy. We all scan the QR code. I've been getting practice because Tone Bayes hosts the poker game in Miami like every two weeks.

But, you know, you just, you lightning it. You just put all this, you know, Bitcoin via lightning into a single wallet. And then, you know, who wins it takes the pot, right? And it was just so convenient, so easy to use. I don't think that was possible like two years ago, you know. Yeah, it would have been tricky. There would have been some waiting around. Well, especially if you don't trust the other degenerates sitting at the table.

Yeah, so it is what it is. But yeah, I mean, I like where we're headed with lightning. I think it's going in the right direction. And hopefully it continues to get easier and easier. So yeah. And with that, and I think Katie's on her way back in. Oh, I see her. I see her.

She's in there somewhere. But with that, I think we're going to, we can put a bow on that topic. You know, I'm happy with lightning, and I just hope it continues to proliferate and get easier for people. But besides that, we're going to do a rotation. And Bram, I think I'm going to toss it to you first. And I will cue you up with the same question everybody will eventually get. Why are you bullish? I am bullish because I see that the mind virus of Bitcoin is spreading.

I think I talked with Nico about this before, but the idea that I really love is that eventually, you know, you cannot orange pill someone, you know, people orange pill themselves. And it's an individual journey into understanding what Bitcoin is and eventually also, you know, being incentivized to, you know, actually contribute to it in whatever, whatever way possible. So first you study, you adopt and you contribute to it in whatever your role is, right? And I think last week, I've seen so many, and I want to connect this to, you know, more like the global game theory. So last week I saw so many people, I think Thomas Massey in Congress, he was in the podcast with Safe Dean. He talks about ending the Fed. Today there was a woman in the German parliament, which had a petition or an amendment against selling the Bitcoin that the German government owns. inviting other members of parliament to a session with Samson Mao.

Of course, we see Trump talk about strategic, you know, Bitcoin as a treasury asset. So I love the idea that, you know, Bitcoin is a mind virus and it goes person by person, but also that big organizations and corporations are made up of all these individuals, right? And that we are already everywhere. And yeah, that is just why I'm really bullish. And I wanted to see with you, ask you how you see that global game theory and that individual mind virus. I mean, I think you're honing in on something that's very, very true where everybody, every Bitcoiner is just a regular person. And those people, as you said, are everywhere.

And so it's no wonder that gradually you're seeing these pockets pop up all over the globe, right? especially I love the kind of bottom up I guess community-based Bitcoin I guess movements that are happening, whether it be starting with starting with little local circular economies or whatever it may be. I think those are incredibly exciting. Like you see places like Elzante, but then you start to see like Bitcoin Lake in Guatemala and you start to see all these. And then people like myself in another city say, well, I want that here for myself too. I'd love to be able to just live on Bitcoin and separate myself. And also, I'm going to give a shout out to this douchebag in the chat here because, you know, all I'll say is have fun staying poor.

And we'll get that personality here. but they can they can you know they will buy bitcoin in a much higher price but again this see it's no wonder that we see you know pockets of politicians and people going oh like wow there's actually a problem with the money things are going wrong like the Thomas Massey thing that was super interesting because he literally like obviously he's been not a huge fan of the Fed for quite some time, but then he reads the Bitcoin standard. And then he's like, well, maybe I should put something into writing and see if I can get support to end the Fed. And obviously, like, that's not a thing that's going to happen right away. But the amount of support that he got out the gate was

far more than he anticipated. There was something like between 20 and 30 individuals that supported that that that piece that he put forward whereas before i think the record for any sort of support for something like that was like three so so already like an order of magnitude more support um and again i i think you're seeing politicians obviously like right now it's it's a a topic it's an election topic which is i didn't you know i didn't have that on my bingo card uh for this this year. I thought maybe like next cycle or one after that, but to see a presidential campaign having some basis in Bitcoin is mind boggling. Like it seems like a simulation, but it's it's seeping in everywhere. And again, it's on the individual basis. And it's really hard to stamp that

out is the most exciting part. I think anyway. So I'm curious either, Nico, if you want to dive in and then we can get can add one little thing oh yeah yeah what i what i love is that uh i tweeted that this week like the bitcoin is already like the network state you know like this because all these individuals are everywhere um in the world already you see that the messaging around around topics that are about bitcoin also gets amplified right so this random woman from a from the german parliament that not that we never heard of i don't know like like there's a tweet from her that has like 300,000 views because all these crazy bitcoins are retweeting, you know, this message and replying and all these things. And so or when the ECB tweets, you know,

there's no one who says like, oh, yay, you know, inflation is down or yay, fiat money. No, there's there's only bitcoins in the comments, right? And I think that it's a really interesting thought to to think about like any important moment or message. or amendment or law or whatever we are amplifying that and so it will get way more views than people who are against it or alternatives or whatever and so we are already already there and i just really love to see that yeah yeah that's why i think trump is going to double down on that because yes some big pointers might throw some sets at him but we are really good at spreading information And we're making things viral, especially on Twitter.

And Twitter is the most political platform too. So once he sees this response from all the crazy Bitcoiners, like doing this clip of, I'm going to, I'm going to set Ross free. And there's so much support for that. Yeah, he's going to double down on talking about Bitcoin at least. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I mean, like, the freedom mind virus is 100% spreading.

You see this and you see this like not only in the Bitcoin sense, but you know, the election, of course, of, of Javier Malay in Argentina, you know, of course, what Nain Boukela is doing in El Salvador. And of course, I don't think that you can have freedom without Bitcoin. I think they go really hand in hand. So yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. And then in political sense, like even here in Canada, right, you have, I still cannot pronounce his last name. Pierre Polivar, I'm saying. Pierre Poliev. There we go.

Pierre Poliev, and he has a good chance because everyone's not really happy with the current prime minister. He has a good chance at winning elections. I mean, the next election. And, you know, he is not only pro freedom, but also pro Bitcoin. And in the United States, like, again, I think it was Ben that you said this or someone said this. I would have never have a Matt coming from someone that has to cover the news, like on a daily basis. I would have never have imagined in a million years that you literally have a, you know, because first it started with Ron DeSantis, then it was VVAC, you know, then it was RFK.

It was like the, you know, the candidates that are not, they don't have a chance of winning. And they all came out and they said, look, I'm pro Bitcoin, anti-CBDC. Ron DeSantis in Florida passed a law banning CBDCs in Florida. And then you had the Orange Man, like literally go. So there's like, and I was saying this in the beginning of him, there's a non-zero chance that, you know, uh, uh, there will be a pro Bitcoin president in the White House. That percentage, I think Trump's leading by like 60% after that last debate. And, you know, it's exactly what Katie said. He went into the libertarian conference. He's like, I will free Ross. I was with Ross's mom last week in Miami at mining disrupt in the backstage. And I went up to her and I'm like, like, what do you think about? And she, she couldn't believe it. Like, it's, insane. Now, of course, Trump is a politician. He's pandering. He's just trying to get votes. But it's a testament to the power of our movement. Bitcoin doesn't need Trump. Trump needs Bitcoin in order to get elected, right? And that's how far we've come. And that's why I'm incredibly effing bullish.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's astounding to see it happen. And again, it's that it's a, it's just very telling of of how big, how much this has grown. And as, as freedom-minded individuals gravitate to Bitcoin because they understand what it represents, the people in positions of power that rely on those lots of capital will also begin to cater to those individuals. And so we're kind of seeing the beginnings of a shifting of power where, you know, you will get rid of the cantillionaire circles because their money will be less and less useful over time. And they won't be able to command power the way they once would just by, you know, suckling up to the money printer teat.

You're no longer able to do that. you there's it's very much a not not to say that there can't be corruption and things like that but a society based on proof of work i think will have a much higher degree of uh we'll say altruistic maybe not altruistic but like um mutual benefits for all as opposed to the predatory uh wealth extraction that we have right now for sure like the bureaucratic elite that benefits from the proximity of the money printer. And then everyone else is like, shut up, peasant. Because that's like essentially how the current system works.

You know, and I think Bitcoin is the silent protest. You know, it says, you know, you could do whatever you want, Mr. Joe Biden. But I'm going to put my Bitcoin in self-custody after watching Ben's tutorials. Right. So, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm very bullish. Yeah, I think it's interesting. You say, like, it's the silent protest.

But I think it's true. But they are paying attention. Isn't that interesting? Isn't it interesting already? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And if you think about how many people, I mean, they talked about, you know, in the States, like 50 million people have crypto. I don't know what the actual stats are. But if we if we think about like how many people really understand Bitcoin, right? I think that's also a fun question to to ask. But I, I, I, I was at like a million tops and then I met a guy who said like 10k and I was like okay interesting but imagine it's a million tops they're paying attention when one million people understand a certain thing and then think about how big that thing is right yeah that is just one of the most fascinating things for me as well so yes it's a silent protest but in some way there it's making noise for sure

I mean, and I want to get to that. This comment kind of times and shout out to Lightning Goats. He literally has a YouTube channel of just a live stream of goats and you can scan a QR code and it sends lightning and it will literally feed goats live. It's insane. Anyway, so if Trump wins, Bitcoiners will insist that he follows through. Imagine what happens if he doesn't. So that's a very good topic, right?

Because it's like you can never trust a politician. And to brand what you were saying, right? It's like, clearly this is a silent protest, but people are paying attention. I think what you're starting to see is like the game theory take place. And I saw a post by David Bailey, CEO of Bitcoin Magazine. And he's hosting a fundraiser from the Bitcoin industry in Nashville. And they're trying to outraise what Trump raised in Silicon Valley from the tech industry. Because at the end of the day, these politicians, what are they?

They only care about their donor, they're donors. But the Bitcoin movement is becoming so powerful and influential that now we are becoming the donor class, which is insane. Right. So it's like, yeah, they can ignore us. But then you won't get this sweet donations that we're going to give you. And then when Bitcoin gets to like half a million dollars, like, you know, I'm rambling, but I have to say this one last bit.

Ternamister did a presentation at Bitcoin. Commons in Austin. And it was like the Fiat ruined architecture, something along the lines. But there was one slide that like stuck out to me. And it was basically like laying out the percentage of high net worth individuals. Sorry, ultra high net worth individual. An ultra high net worth individual, someone with a net worth of $50 million or more. If Bitcoin reaches $1 million per coin, the percentage of ultra high net worth

individuals that are bitcoinsers is going to be 25 to 35% of that total population like imagine how influential that is right so anyways saying i feel like katie i know you said something in the chat but i feel like that i feel like that's worthy of saying online yeah yeah yeah but this is the joke this is why it's so entertaining yeah no go ahead yeah i mean so katy in the background goes From plebs to donors, how did that happen? It's game theory. It's game theory. Yeah.

Well, it's, it's, we changed our mind, you know. Like, I think it's so interesting that there's so many like VC Silicon Valley type people who are ultra into tech and they are not seeing one of the biggest technological discoveries in our motherfucking lives. You know, like, what are you doing? Like you're smart and rich, but you're not changing your mind. It's baffling to me. And this is how it works.

This is the game theory. Like we did it. It's almost amazing. My husband. Go ahead. Yeah, it's almost amazing. My husband just met with two like VC type entrepreneurs from Silicon Valley. Both of them got into Bitcoin at like 2010 and 2013 because somebody told them.

And like it went up. It went down. They sold it like one and a half X from what they bought and never touched it again. It's like, okay, you were so early, but that was not enough for you to get the commitment you needed. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.

Unreal. People don't know. They don't understand what they're looking at. And again, like I think, you know, as with even whether it's people like that, whether they're still chasing the fiat gains or it's people that think it's a total scam and or just, again, like, high time reference people that think it's interesting, but don't want to put in the effort to kind of learn about it. Those people, again, will come to Bitcoin at the price that they deserve. And you need to have a certain type of mindset to not only be curious, but then spend the time to

learn and get into Bitcoin and then stick it out through the ups and downs that takes a certain type of resolve to stick around through that. It can be rough, right? Like, it's not easy to to hang around and have that conviction through a bear market and you know um you know at this point like again the other day we're down at like 54k i it does i mean now those those kind of swings back and forth and they're they don't phase after you're kind of been through a cycle or two it kind of doesn't really phase you nearly as much um you're just kind of a bit numb to it uh And you recognize that if you have, and I've been saying this a lot lately, but if you have a good framework for how to live your life, which is providing value to

others, spending less than you earn, and then saving in money that nobody else can print out of nothing, then you're already in a great position. And you don't really need to adjust anything when Bitcoin is going up and down. You can just continue living your life and it will continue to get considered considerably better over the long run for sure yeah i mean that's that's the hack and that's the hack and the majority of the world has still not woken up to that reality you know yeah so yeah well they'll get there they'll get there but um awesome i don't think so yeah i mean sorry one thing like now that nico said that i there was also this article from i think it was financial times or someone

like a woman who had an opinion piece who was like oh no the crypto people, what are they saying? Like they, what's it called? Like, they have created a political lobby. Oh, no. Exactly. Are you paying attention? Like, what are you doing?

You know, like, it's, these people are so short-sighted. And I love what you said about, you know, once you have this long-term time frame, you are not bothered with all this like short-sightedness anymore, right? Like all the people tweeting today like, oh, why is the price going down? I'm going to like explain and blah, blah, and we are just chilling. Yeah, yeah. I blame the Germans. And Mount Cox.

Yeah, and Mount Goggs. Yeah, they finally did it. Like, remember how many, how many, like, teasers they did? Oh, yeah, this is, this is bullish because it's destroying decade-old fud. So as soon as that stuff gets dumped, it's like, there's just one more thing to get off the fud list. Yeah. And then it'll just be back to the same old boiling the ocean. I think they're going to run out of things to say. No, you know what the funny thing about the Germany selling Bitcoin is that they're literally

separating money from state. Like literally. The country that brought me to is selling the soundest money that has ever been in front of mankind. So yeah, the country that. brought you the hyperinflationary period of Weimar is is actively selling sound money. Yeah. For something that they can just create out of thinner. Yeah. It's the funny part.

It's poetic. Oh, man. This is here is where you see the difference between. It's so funny because sometimes when we, Nico, we talked about this on simply Bitcoin, right? Like we talked about the global game theory and we probably all think the same. same about it, right? Like, it's so logical, the most rational thing for you to do as a country is to adopt Bitcoin for money that you can print yourself. Like, it sounds so simply stupid. But these people are not doing it, right? Instead, they are, they are selling. And that actually shows us

the state of the states, right? Like, it's, it's just incredible. These people, they don't think they did no research, nothing. They're just throwing it away. I think it's one of the biggest strategic mistakes ever to be made i mean give it yeah i would like give it like i agree it's it's it's but it's also like it makes sense because it's like their ideologs and their ideologs and like their whole paper system and like for them being ideologs and paper system which is clearly inferior to bitcoin like they're just selling bitcoin back to individuals you know and then by the time they wake up like they have to buy it from individuals i don't know about you guys but like i'm not selling my bitcoin to black rock all right or the u.s government or the german

government yeah you know so yeah scrape well german government is selling el salvador government is buying exactly bullish bullish on el salvador no but there but in el salvador you know the stuff with the prisoners that's all that's just not okay man like yeah yeah yeah but they'll they'll That's what the Germanus would say. They'll... Don't worry about you for a second. No, no, no, no. Don't worry.

I am going to... I'm going to put a little bow on that topic, and we're going to do another rotation because I want to get down to Katie and I want to queue you up with the same question. Why are you bullish, Katie? Well, I actually learned a lot of news from you guys right now

because I am not spending that much time on Twitter. And I'm like, okay, what happened with my gocks? So that's really cool. But I am still on day-to-day helping Bitcoiners obtain second citizenship so I can talk from this perspective. Last week was our record on the amount of applications we've ever submitted for a second passport. And it's obviously bullish because, first of all, Bitcoiners can't afford this now, right? the asset is appreciating 200k passport is okay for them the second citizenship used to be for like extremely wealthy

coming in from like inheritance money it's and stuff now bitcoiners can totally be in this class and buying themselves citizenship obtaining more freedom through this tool that is cool and it also shows the time in the market like our cases are basically correlated with bitcoin price so when we see spike in amount of clients coming in. I know it's because Bitcoin is going up. Yeah, so definitely excited about that. And of course, it also shows that people are like, it is a sovereign individual thesis showing us that we will force the nation states

to compete for our capital and fruits of our labor, right? Like when states can no longer acquire Bitcoin through purchasing it, they will have to acquire citizens with Bitcoin in order for those citizens to come in and spend the money there. And it is what some nations are doing, including El Salvador, right? They want those Bitcoiners. They don't necessarily want, like, they just want you to come and bring your capital and leave your lifestyle there so the country will prosper. And this dynamic is really cool because now we force this free market onto the nation states. So I'm bullish on that.

That's super exciting. I love, again, seeing this thesis laid out in a book written in 96 come to fruition. Like, again, the fact that it was effectively laid out throughout this book that, you know, in a digital age, when people can work wherever they work, want when people can transact with others around the globe seamlessly that there would be this game theoretical migration of people to where they're treated best. I mean, of course, that was going to happen, but to watch it play out for, you know, in real time, but at an accelerated pace, as you said, you're seeing your seat, you're, you're, you guys are sending more and more people into this realm of, well, you know, let's get you a second citizenship

here, like where you treat it best, what are the most advantageous regions for yourself? And, you know, Bitcoin plays a major role in that, especially for the individuals you're dealing with, where they've, through the fruits of their labor and the appreciation of a currency, nobody can print, they're now able to look at this and say, well, you know, this country that I'm in, it's no longer benefiting me in this lifestyle. And so why not look at other places? And at the same time, having countries, you know, and it's still early, but having countries that are beginning to go,

maybe we should incentivize those people to come here. It's exciting because it bodes well for a lot of jurisdictions over time to compete for this. And I'm very excited to see the opportunities that are presented to Bitcorners in the coming five to ten years because it's right now everybody tends to think, oh, El Salvador or, oh, you know, there's a few very specific jurisdictions that people think of. But I think there's going to be, I think there's going to be some pretty decent competition in the market in relatively on a, on a, on a, you know, when you really zoom out on a time frame, kind of from a time frame perspective, I think, you know, five or 10 years, there's going to be a lot. And that's going to be a stark contrast to how quickly things have moved in the past. In my opinion, I don't know if Katie would echo that or not. I feel like I'm a little bearish on a very short-term investment migration,

like capital-based migration. The industry is like in a weird point. And I feel like we're going to have some downtime like five to eight years of not pros, like not to the extent that, okay, new jurisdictions jumping on board every, every quarter, let's say. But then I know it will happen because right now we still have the old guard countries like Bram's nation, trying to push all those jurisdictions to shut down their citizenship by investment programs because they don't like that the access to Germany, like visa-free access to Germany, can be purchased for 200K. But once they ran out of power,

they're already selling their Bitcoin. They're not realizing how they're shooting themselves in the knee. They won't be able to force those nations to shut down those programs anymore. They're losing the last powers they have. So then I believe like eight years plus we're going to see jurisdictions jumping on board for sure. Awesome. I love it.

Nigo, I don't know if you had anything to tag in there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, Katie, I love what you do. I'm a huge fan of, you know, huge fan of the theory from the sovereign individual. And I think it's incredibly important. And like, I'm, I guess, blessed to be a natural, nationalized American. So I already kind of had a second passport, working on getting a third. And but that's just not just because of my family roots, right?

But it's incredibly important just to have different nationalities because you're going to go to where you're treated best fundamentally. And just to kind of like break down the game theory a little bit, I see it playing out. It's fascinating. For example, one of Trump's slogans, he's like, I want all the Bitcoin to be mined in America. And so essentially what he's doing is he's competing for the business of Bitcoin miners. And the ETF thing was very similar, right? ETFs were launched in anywhere, everywhere except the United States, including Hong Kong, which is really, you know, a China proxy, right? And, you know, so it became strategically important for the U.S. to launch an ETF as well to be competitive with one of its main, you know, opponents these days or is China, right?

at least on an economical level yeah so far um but to no you go ahead first because of um but from an individual level um you know i'm starting to see it and i agree with keg i'm not really seeing it like on a on a massive scale but i do have some good friends like at least three or four and one's very well known and he's a very uh powerful influential position and he just renounced his u.s citizenship he's like this is not worth it which is exactly what by the way the way that the book the sovereign individual predicted is like the u.s. citizenship is not the one to have and he's like look i'm going to give this up and i'm just going to move to this other country and i'm like let me ask you something when you woke up the next day did Hillary Clinton was she by your

bedside and wanted to kill you and she's like no no no nothing happened they even let me in they gave me a visa um but i think you're going to start to see an acceleration of that because it starts not to make sense especially with the rise of the internet peer-to-peer communications you can work anywhere around the world. And it's like, does it really make sense to pay, you know, 39% of my income where, you know, I can move to Dubai or I can move to, you know, one of these jurisdictions where there's no taxes? Like, why am I doing this? And I think, honestly, and this is my last point, I think they're starting to notice that, which is why I believe they made an example of Roger Ver, because one of the reasons as to why they arrested him was he,

even though he renounced the citizenship, which is just crazy, he didn't pay a percentage of his capital gains. So they arrested in Spain, they arrested in Spain and they're extraditing him back to the United States. And the reason for that is because they're trying to make an example out of him. And I think they're trying to make an example out of him because they're scared that people are going to wake up and kind of follow in. in fallen his footsteps. And I always read this on Simply Sessions, and I think it's very fitting. And Katie, I know you're going to appreciate it, but this is a passage from the sovereign individual.

It says lacking their custom scope to tax inflate governments, even in traditionally civil countries will turn nasty as income tax becomes uncollectable. Older and more arbitrary methods of extraction will resurface. The ultimate form of withholding tax, the de facto or even overt hostage taking, will be introduced by governments to desperate to prevent wealth from. escaping beyond their reach. Unlucky individuals will find themselves singled out, held to ransom, in almost medieval fashion, businesses that offer the services that facilitate the realization of autonomy by individuals will be sub-infiltration, sabotage, and disruption. And that kind of makes

sense because, like, remember the samurai wallet guy that was arrested? So here's the U.S. government basically saying, no, we're still in control here. And, but I think the, you know, I think things are cracking. And I think we're making. progress. And I think it's going to be a brave new world a decade from now. But I think it's going to be a world where individuals are going to have a lot more freedom than they have today. For sure. Let me ask you a question, guys. So you know how an old saying goes? Like when it comes to security, the weakest link sits between computer and an office chair. Right. So like you figured out your Bitcoin security. like the reason I call company Plain B passport is because the hedge against your jurisdictions coming after you personally is an attack on Bitcoin too, right? So hatching against your jurisdiction and whatever policies they come up with is a big reason why people get second citizenship. And that's what I see the most for the U.S. and Canadian clients.

They're not willing to relocate just yet, but they do not trust their government. They want this hatch in their pocket so they can sleep better and they can get the fuck out. Sorry, whenever possible. It's okay, Katie. You can say whatever the fuck you want. It's insurance for sure. It's insurance. And I forget where I read this.

I don't think it came from the book. But it was basically like, you know how you see this giant migration of people like illegal? I hate using that word. But let's say this giant migration of people coming from the southern border to the United States without papers. but basically where I read this and it was so strong it was like what we'll see is people like they'll try to keep you in like Berlin Wall type of thing and you'll actually see people like leaving from the United States across the border to Mexico just to escape because it just no longer makes sense right and and one of the passages from from that quote that I read which is they were

talking about taxation but I don't think it's only income tax that governments are going to really need they really need the direct tax of inflation and i think bitcoin really breaks that um oh bent's pulling up the mandibles which is like the best like the best like sovereign individual was like what's going to happen the mandibles is the story yeah the mandibles i'm channeling my channeling my inner odel but the mandibles was like it's you read through it and you're like oh god is this coming is this. And it's basically this family in the U.S. And the timeline is from the year 2029 to 2047. And it's like the collapse of this wealthy family through U.S. hyperinflation and like how the U.S. handles it.

And like the fracturing of the U.S. and Nevada becomes like this free state where people escape to. But everybody's afraid to go there because they think they they've got like chips in their head they're gonna like explode and it's just like everybody is getting siopped and it's crazy uh it's super interesting and uh and and yeah it's like this weird dystopian it's very dark i found like it i found it very interesting but the whole time you're like oh that's rough it's it's it's uh it's an interesting but uh hard read i think yeah yeah no it's and i remember that and i'm sure you you listen to this you remember that So you remember the episode that the author did with Odell?

Yeah. It was so good. Yeah, it was good. And I, I quite, her name's Lionel Shriver. And, yeah, she's, she's fantastic. She's not, I don't know how. She's not orange pill. Like, she's still skeptical of Bitcoin, which is so weird, because, like, that's

the solution, right? Yeah. Bitcoin has mentioned passingly in the book of like, oh, like, we all remember what happened to Bitcoin, like, as if it wasn't a thing anymore. But he also, she admittedly. said that she didn't really know much about it when she like wrote it. And I know that Odell is, you know, he did his best to Orangeville. And maybe he planted a seed there somewhere. But, you know, if anybody to get it, I would love for her to get it because, yeah, yeah.

Well, they have an exit tax in Canada already, right? They also are introducing one in my country, actually. They know. They know what's going on. Yeah. But. Back to the point about how many people are aware of this. Not that many people, not that many people are thinking about this, but they are paying attention, right? And I saw a comment in the chat. I don't know if they are serious or like, they said like they want power total control.

They have cards and they will play them. I see so many of these comments also on Twitter, right? But I don't think. No, but I sometimes it's like, is it against Bitcoiners, you know, us talking about how we're going to fix things and then this is like a negative comment or is it just sharing like yeah the government sucks or something i don't know what i want to say is more like this illustrates how big the battle is right like this this is the level that we're battling at like they're trying to keep people in the country why to work to pay taxes to spend it on stuff you don't

want them to spend it on or or pay you know interest on debt that you know you never got any any any any value from basically. And to go back to this earlier point about, I have a little fantasy. I think it's a fantasy, but I think there's going to be a person or there's going to be people that are being held hostage like Nico just said, right? Or the IRS is suing them and the IRS is saying like, you have millions in Bitcoin and you have to pay and then this person is like, no, I had a boating accident. I don't have access.

Yeah, you do have it. Right. And then, you know, they're going to go to courts. you know, in some country, someone is going to go to court where a government agency wants to compel them to write down or say their seed phrase. And they will be like, yeah, I don't know. I don't have it. But, you know, so there's going to be a president set somewhere with a case like that.

And to connect it to the point of the network state, this is what we are going to blow up with millions of people, right? We are going to share the story. behind this case and the case is they want this person to pay taxes to force them. And if you still think that your taxes are, you know, voluntarily think again, right? And so that is kind of like my fantasy about this because I think it's, it's going to happen. You know, it's something like this is going to happen and that will be an opportunity for us to showcase. Um, the power of Bitcoin. I think.

Yeah. I, there's a, uh, there's a message in the, uh, in the, uh, in a, chat here that I just wanted to bring up because it's pretty wild. I left Billy said, I left South Africa to Canada in 2016. And now they want to tax expats that have already left South Africa. Like a retro act. Holy crap. Can you imagine? Are they going to pick you up?

Like, what do they want to do? Like, how does this work? It's, I mean, that that's what the passage is saying is that, like, I think that we're reaching like this like inflection point in human history where like the ability for you to write down 12 words and just like store vast sums of wealth in your mind and then vote with your feet if need be completely changes the power dynamics between individuals and the state and I don't think they're prepared for that and like look at how they're reacting to the disintermediation of information like mass scale peer to peer communications via social media like

And they try to censor it. They'll like, you know, like Elon's a fascist. Like everything in the book, they'll try it. They'll try to throw at it. I don't think governments are prepared. Like, I don't think governments are prepared for the internet. I think that they were always hoping that there was going to be a handful of intermediaries of which they can co-opt, like information intermediaries and middlemen and money intermediaries and

middlemen. And they always hope like if we can co-op these, we can control everybody. That's how they got away with the 6102 order. And then all of a sudden. there's peer-to-peer decentralization and they're like, I don't know what to do. And I think over the long term, I think that's a forcing function. I think I completely agree with you, Katie. I think it will create, I don't know and I don't think in the near future,

but in the long term, I think you'll create a more like customer business type of relationship between the individual and the state rather than like, pay your taxes or we're going to put you in a box, bro. Like because it's kind of like a mafia cartel type relationship today. Like it's crazy to me that governments feel entitled. Like it's like, oh, we're entitled to half of your wealth if you leave the cut. Like that is nuts. And they're squandering it.

It's like they don't even have the fiscal discipline themselves. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, go ahead. Go ahead, Katie. Like they have monopoly over you. That's why they can do all this things.

But once you can diversify, once you have. have multiple competitors that you can choose from, like they lose this monopoly over you on this free market of nation states. And that is that is what we want to see. And you know what is really cool? We're talking about this power hungry authoritarian states, but we're not duvers at all. We're so happy because we have this orange beautiful thing. And we are very bullish on the future too. Instead of being that like, oh my God, my government is. is going to come up to all of us. We're doomed.

No, we know the future is orange. Like, it's beautiful. 100%. I just on the topic here, there's a guy that's always in the chat. And I love the contrast between his username and some of the deep things that he says. So he outlines it very well. His name is pood in the cereal. But he's very, very eloquent in saying.

And countries are walled gardens. They prefer friction to keep you in their ecosystem. Bitcoin forces countries to compete on features and interdisciplinary ideas. So as usual, pooed in the cereal, dropping bombs in there. But, you know, I will steal that as a tweet. Thank you. I saw the other comment with my mind of my money and my mind. That's a great one.

That's a great one. Your dog was so ahead of his time with my mind on my money, my money on my mind. Amazing. I love it. All right. So I'm going to put a bow on that topic as well. Katie, thank you for bringing in the whole sovereign individual thread here. I'm very bullish on hearing that you guys are continuing to do business and see it accelerate over time.

It is needed. and you will have a whole world of customers coming your way. So be ready, I think. But with that, we're going to do a rotation. We're going to go for our final reason for being bullish, and I'm going to toss it straight to you, man. Nico, why are you bullish? I'm bullish.

I'm bullish on you, Ben. I'm bullish on Ben, but I'm bullish on all you guys. I'm bullish on anyone who's on a Bitcoin standard. But no, we've, we've, hit so many rounds. We've hit the political, the political discussion, the mine buyers spreading, the, you know, sovereign individual thesis. So I'm going to take a different approach and I'm going to be bullish on the price. Why am I bullish on the price? Well, you know, the ETF got approved January 10th of 2024, exactly 15 years later than how Finney's famous tweet running Bitcoin,

January 9th, January 10th, 2009. Well, I can't believe I remembered that off the top of my head, but that's because I used that to moderate a panel a couple days ago. But the ETF got approved, and in the eyes of Wall Street, Bitcoin got legitimized. You have the CEO and chairman of the world's largest asset manager in the world, Larry Fink, literally using the Bitcoin talking points on the legacy. corporate media. You have Michael Saylor's Bitcoin strategy completely vindicated. The last two weeks or so, you're seeing little hints of Michael Dell. Michael Dell is a significantly richer billionaire

than Michael Saylor. I don't know what it is about the Michaels. But he dropped some Bitcoin memes. He ran a poll the other day. So potentially, you know, Dell technology is a massive computer significantly bigger than micro strategy, potentially following in Michael's sailors footsteps. On the nation state level, you have Naim Buckele also completely vindicated. He made the country's reserves public. He literally put El Salvador's Bitcoin address where that's where the reserves are. He made it public for the world to see and anyone could verify. And what are the what's like the what are the unintended consequences of that? Well, it makes it very difficult for a politician to take some off the top now that it's on a public ledger.

Where's the gold in Fort Knox, bro? We haven't seen a picture of it since 1974. Is the gold really there? So any country that's criticizing El Salvador, say, hey, show us the gold, you know, but they don't feel like they have a necessity to do that. So on all fronts, on a country level, you know, on an institutional level, on a public company level, on an individual level, Bitcoin just stays winning. And I think that's just a testament of Bitcoin's superior incentives compared to everything else. And I think that is going to lead into, you know, I'm going to get a little bullish because this is why are we bullish.

I think that's going to lead into an incredible, you know, bull market this cycle. I think we're about halfway through. We're consolidating during the summer, just like it happened in the previous cycles. Everyone's thinking Bitcoin's going to zero. And I think we're going to have a great 2025. But unlike, you know, 2018, where we're. one of the coping mechanisms that we all told each other was like, the institutions are coming. Like, no, the institutions are here.

And there's tremendous amount of interest. You also heard the Wisconsin, Wisconsin pension fund by $150 million of exposure to Bitcoin via the ETFs, right? You have several large banks. I believe the second largest bank in Europe, PNB Peribus, bought exposure to Bitcoin via the ETF, right? So this trend is not stopping. And I think that this cycle, this bull cycle is going to be the cycle of institutions and the enormous amount of money that's behind that. And I got to say, I think we're reaching a point where if you're an asset manager and you're not telling your client to at least have a 1% to 3% allocation to Bitcoin, you're doing a disqualification. to Bitcoin, you're doing a disservice to them. You're hurting them. I think it's something of a necessity

at this point. There's so many companies, including Dell, that have Bitcoin on, sorry, no, they have giant cash reserves. And that's like them sitting on melting ice cubes. Just to, you know, compensate, they can literally just put one to two, one, maybe five percent of those cash reserves into something like Bitcoin. And it will literally make up for the person, purchasing power that they lose via the debasement of currency, right? So so many things to be bullish about, but specifically I'm really excited about the end of 2024, 2025 for all the reasons I lined out. You know, I think this is going to be an epic bull market.

I think people have a little bit of PTSD because of the previous bull market. I think people, you know, we're expecting more. The China ban happened. FTX. It seems like all the planets and stars are aligning for some potential explosive price action. But to me, it doesn't matter because one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin. And I just stay humble, stack sat, stay solvent. Make some content for you guys.

Make some content with Ben. Sit back. Enjoy the new baby. Katie, I know you're enjoying your family as well. And it's just, it's good to be a bitcoiner. It's a cheat code to life, man. Yeah. We all, we all.

That's why I'm bullish. Yeah, I love it. We all can afford. to have a little bit more family time as time goes on. But I'll let Bram and Katie chime in on anything he said first before I rant on anything. So either of you, if you want to dive in. Yeah. I, I love what you said.

For me, Bitcoin is now so entertaining. You know, like I think a few years ago, I read a tweet. I don't know who it was by, but you know, I always saw Bitcoin as an experiment. It's either zero or everything. right like you know the black hole of value or how people say that and there was a tweet by someone who said you know if you even remotely think bitcoin is going to be something you have to get a seat in the stadium and that's one of the moments where i thought okay i have to move but now we are sitting in this stadium we are we are looking at this play out right and we go from 74 000 to 54 to whatever

like it doesn't really matter but we are just observing slowly how some people get it and some people don't And I think Nico, what you said about Michael Dell, like I think he's going to do it. I just, I really think he's going to do it. And it's just legendary. Like, what a signal, right? For someone of that stature to get to that point and do it. And I think it's going to melt some minds because there are serious people who take Michael Dell seriously, but they probably hate Bitcoin.

And that is just something that is very entertaining for me. There's a good quote last. A couple weeks ago I had on a guy, his name is Scott Dietlson. He runs a company called Block Rewards. But he was referring to Michael Dell. And he was like, it seems like each Bitcoin epoch, Bitcoin price, will go up by orders of Michael. So we'll see. We'll see if that comes true.

Katie, I'll toss it to you. Do you have anything that you wanted to chime in on what Nico was saying? Yeah, and what Brent was saying too. I feel like I'm at the stage where I'm quietly sitting in the stadium. Like when I first got into Bitcoin, just like I mentioned, I had to try every lightning little thing. I had to participate. I had to tweet every 20 seconds, something about Bitcoin.

And now I am sitting back in the stadium and enjoying my life. I just had my second baby. And Bitcoin just became this base of my life in terms of, principles in terms of values and it's just a good core like roots of our family in a way and then on top of bitcoin principles we're building our family building future for our kids and i'm bullish that's awesome i love to hear it um well i what i'd like to do here is uh as we round out uh the end of each episode i like to go around uh the panel one last time and um and give let people give any final thoughts they may have, but also a recommendation. And this is one of my

favorite parts of the show, but pointing people that are watching the show towards something that you think they will find useful. And that could take any form. It could just be as simple as a piece of life advice that you wish you had known earlier. But it might take the form of, oh, go watch this video or check up this pod or read this book or maybe try this app or this device. It could really be anything, but anything that you think would be useful for an individual to check out. So we're going to do that in just a minute. But before we do, I'm going to toss out a shout out to our last two sponsors here. So I'll let Bram and Katie and Nico kind of stew on that for a second before I put them on the spot.

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We're going to go around and do some of our final thoughts and recommendations. I, in terms of my final thoughts, I think what I'm continuously seeing here is that to a degree, society is now being more able to be reformed by the individual rather than the elites at the top. And we're starting to see more bottom-up control instead of top-down. And Bitcoin is one of those tools, along with the internet and the ability to communicate

and transact globally without permission. That's contributing to that. And I love to see it. And so I guess, you know, final thoughts here for individuals is just take hold of that, see what tools are available to you and always continue to level up. And in terms of recommendations, since we're on the topic and since Germany is actively dumping sats with history such as they've had, I recommend people pull up this and check out this book that I held up earlier. It's called When Money Dies, the nightmare of deficit spending devaluation and hyperinflation in Weimar, Germany. It's very interesting kind of going through everything that happened then. And the thing that stood out most of me was the behaviors of the people living through it,

as well as the people that were creating the problem at the top, being completely blind to what was actually going on. It's like they had no idea. And we see flavors of it today as governments gaslight you into thinking that their deficit spending and inflation of currency units are not the reasons that we're experiencing what we're experiencing. And it's like they'll lie in your face and say, we're going to fix it by spending more money. We were covering that on the show the other day.

And at the rodeo, we're talking about, you know, tweets from politicians saying, like, we're going to make things affordable, more affordable by spending more money on government programs. And it's like the absolute inverse of what you want to be doing is blowing more money through government inefficiency. And yet that's what they propose. and that's what people clamor for as well. And so, you know, if I feel like if everybody gave this a read in society, there'd be a lot more people being like, no, no, no, no, let's not go down that path.

But that's the path that a lot of people want to go down. So check out when money dies. Very, very interesting read. And you will see echoes of it in society today everywhere. Nico, I'll ask you any final thoughts and recommendations before we move on. Yeah, man. I mean, so it's my eighth year in Bitcoin. Next year's going to be my ninth. And I, you know, I learned so many things, so many painful lessons along the way. And I wish someone told me from the beginning what I'm going to tell everyone now, which is make sure you have more Bitcoin than the day before everything else is noise. Take self-custy of your Bitcoin. Like, that's it. Um, it can, it, what I described is incredibly simple, but going through it is incredibly difficult. Emotionally, spiritually, uh, you'll change as a person because of it. Um, I couldn't grow facial hair.

Now I can. Um, right. Um, so, you know, I, I say that semi jokingly. But the point is, there's this very famous, um, meme of like, you know, like the old guy is like, yeah, I'm a 25 year old but I've been, you know, it's like an 80-year-old guy, and it's like, I'm 25, but I've been a year in Bitcoin. And Bitcoin time, you know, time flies. It goes extremely quickly. You know, this is the separation of money in state. After all, the fourth turning, this is a pivotal moment in human history. The internet has disintermediated information and is disintermediating money. And you've got to protect yourself. And the way that you protect yourself, one of the best ways is by protecting your wealth, your energy, your time. and you do that via Bitcoin.

So yeah, if you're the TLDR, though, if you take one little tidbit about what I just said is make sure you have more Bitcoin than the day before. And that's it. If you do that for four years, you're good. If you do that for eight, you're going to be really, really good. That's my advice.

I love it. I love it. Awesome. We'll rotate over to Bram next. Bram, any final thoughts and recommendations? Yeah. What I really love, like what clicked for me was, you know,

when you think about the finite time that we have on earth and the energy you expend within that time, you know, that's what they call human, human productivity. And so if you expend your time and your finite time and energy in that finite time to get a reward, why would you get a reward that can be infinitely created, right?

Like that, that just sounds like the dumbest trade ever. And I think once I got to that thought, I was like, yeah, this is why I should store the rewards that I get, the monetary energy I get into Bitcoin. But what actually got me there was a totally non-related, not related to Bitcoin podcast, which I want to share. And I'll put it in the chat as well. But it's called it's on the Aubrey Marcus YouTube channel. It's called The Shocking Truths about our Energy Crisis with Nate Hagen's. I think I only watched half of that.

But then something clicked because Nate is like an energy expert and he explains, you know, if you look outside or in front of you or wherever, like everything you see costs energy to create or maintain. Right. And so some labor went into that or even when you have like match sticks or something like there was a tree that grew with energy. from the sun and the sun was packaged, you know, like in the tree and then the match six or weight, etc. But like how he talks about energy, that really made it click for me in the terms of like how Bitcoin is the best way to store your energy, the energy productivity.

And so that's something that I really wanted to share. I'm going to see if I can put that. All right. That sounds good. When I see it, I will, or if you're putting it on YouTube even better. On Twitter, I think. On Twitter, I think it will. But either way, if you tweeted out as well, there we go.

Yeah, there it is. So, yeah, but if you tweet it out as well, then give me a tag. I'll give that a retweet and we'll people can check it out. That's awesome. And with that, I'll toss it down to Katie as well. Katie, any final thoughts and recommendations? Yeah, staying on topic of being a mom, et cetera. You know how in Bitcoin we often talk about inheritance issues because we're not sure how to set up this inheritance thing.

So my husband just built this beautiful things and maybe somebody wants to consider it for themselves. So I just want to throw it out there. It's a four out of four multi-sig and it drops one signature every having. So in four years it becomes three out of four. In eight years it becomes two out of four and then one out of four. and it never goes down from that. And it's like, if you want to make sure your loved ones get some money, but also they don't sell right away.

So it's like a force huddle. So even if you die today, 16 years from now, you're somebody a loved one, will be able to get those fonts. In this scenario, they did force hudel, and they do have access to that without being at risk for you right now. So when he told me, I was like, oh, my God, this is so simple and brilliant. And so maybe some of the some people in the audience want to consider it too.

Oh, yeah. That's awesome. I don't know where to find it. So it's not a show. You just consider it. This is right up my, I love this type of stuff. And some of the stuff that's being done with miniscript in multi-sig is just fantastic. There's so much programmability there.

And as you're saying, like a gradually deprecated multi-sig where like the threshold of, of keys required over time diminishes. That's such a nice way of keeping it super secure, but if you really start to screw up and lose things, then it's just a matter of time before you have access. I think that's fantastic. And it also prevents people from accessing things earlier than they should. And there's so many cool things you can do with a combination of, you know,

multi-sig, miniscripts, time locks, all these different tools that we're starting to see more and more of. I love it. So I'm super stoked about that, and I think people should dive into that realm and at least learn the tools and begin to head down that road. But with that, we are going to round out here. Everybody that's watching also, please do stick around for a moment because me and Niko are going to do a giveaway after we bid a do to our guests here.

but this was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. Bram, you are an absolute champion for staying up to what I believe is 1.30 in the morning for you right now. Correct. So thank you for doing it. Again, we're trying to make it happen over the past few weeks, and here we are. So I really appreciate it. And Katie, to you as well, thank you for, I know that we had some juggling to do and scheduling and stuff like that.

And I think Don kept on being like, come on, Ben, get your shit together. We got to figure out of time. So anyways, Katie, thank you so much for being here as well. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, to both of you, I really appreciated the conversation. It was fantastic. And, of course, you both are welcome back anytime.

Have a fantastic weekend. You too, guys. Thanks so much. Cheers, guys. Cheers. Thank you. All right. And everybody, stick around. Here's what we're doing. We're going to do a giveaway. Do you want to, do you want to throw a coin in the well? Yeah. I think we should do that. Again, everybody that tuned in, thank you very much. I was looking on a combination of X and YouTube and a few other things. And, you know, we had a good 3,000 plus people come and chill with us.

Yeah, boom. So thank you guys. But we're going to pull up the well. We're going to throw a coin in the well. If you haven't done this before, get your lightning wallets ready, my friends. We're going to see who's quick enough to make it happen. Nico, do you want to explain a little bit about what's going on here, what we're doing? Yeah, absolutely. Bitcoin Well is a sponsor of me and Ben.

They're the best place to build your automatic self-custody Bitcoin stack. And every time you buy Bitcoin on Bitcoin Well, you earn yourself Bitcoin Well points. And you can use those points. You could redeem those points and you can put them towards the Bitcoin wishing well. So in your Bitcoin Well dashboard, if you're an existing client, again, every time you buy Bitcoin on Bitcoin well, you earn these points. Eventually, you can redeem them. If you have enough, it costs you about 500.

And what that allows you to do is you can toss a coin into the Bitcoin wishing well for an opportunity to win up to one million Satoshi's in the coin. So we're going to toss a coin into the wishing well. We're going to leave the QR code up on screen, and the first person to scan it is going to get those free sats. It could be a million Satoshi's, so get ready. Here we go. All right, here it goes. We got 500 sats.

So you got to get your lightning wallet ready. You got to scan that, and it will ask you if you'd like to redeem 500 sats, and it will go right into your own wallet. We do this on the regular, and we will definitely. continue to be doing it through our live shows both on Thursdays and I'm going to try and to remember to do it on why end of why are we bullish because those that stick around to the end of the show deserve some sats exactly that's that's a really good point yeah it's really yeah anybody who sticks around so um so hopefully you guys are able to uh get that scanned if you do end up sniping those sats please do uh let me know in the chat or give a tweet later uh if you

Again, tag Bitcoin well as well and let them know that you appreciate the additional stats. That'd be fantastic. But with that, before we log off here, I also would like to let you guys know where I'm going to be over the next little bit. I'm going to be doing some traveling. You're going to be heading home in a day, day and a half here. Thank Christ. Yeah, time to get home. I've been traveling nonstop for you.

You have two, though. Yeah. It's been a goal of it. Are you not burnt out? A little bit. I'm going to be home for the month. So it'll be good. Oh, you got a month.

Yeah, that's nice. I get a month. I get a month. So I'm going to be jumping around, though. We're doing a little family road trip. I'm doing a meetup in Vancouver on the weekend of the 10th and 11th. So if you're in the Vancouver area, keep your eyes out. My buddy Fustler who puts on the BTC van events is going to do a bit of a meetup.

So keep an eye out. I will be there. But also, end of August, very excited for this. I'm heading out to Baltic Honey Badger in Riga. That's awesome. So if you are Europe bound or if you're in Europe, then Riga is such an awesome event. Baltic Honey Badger, they do such a good job. It's smaller, more intimate and super cypherpunk.

All the Bitcoin OGs. Love this one. So yeah, head out to Riga, Baltic HoneyBadger.com. You can use go BTC sessions and you get discount on. your ticket, which is awesome. And then I just figured this out where I'm going. Do you want to know where I'm going? I want to know where you're going.

I'm going to Lugano Plan B for him. I've never been, Lugano, Switzerland. I haven't been either. I haven't been to Riga. You're doing all the Euro conferences, man. I mean, Europe's been good to me, man. I feel like I've only done the Statescom. I got to change it up next year, I guess.

Yeah. So I'm going to be out in Lugano for the first time near the end of end of October. And so I'm very excited to be there. We just kind of figured out some stuff in the background. I don't know. They probably haven't announced it yet. So I probably just spoiled the hell out of it. But I think

there might be a code. Odds are if there's a code, it is simply BTC sessions as it is everywhere. So you should probably just try and use that. You mean BTC sessions? Yes. You said simply BTC sessions. Oh, now it's simply BTC sessions.

As in the code is very simple. And it is BTC sessions. I think Ben and I have been spending too much time. I think so. Yes. But yeah, if you're heading to Plan B or if you're heading to Baltic Honey Badger, make sure you snag those tickets early. It's going to be a good time.

And then, yeah, we're going to round out here. I will just say Bitcoin Mentor is growing. We just launched our Australia leg, Bitcoin Mentor Australia. We're also doing some work. Both Bitcoin reached out to us and asked if they could help. funnel some people that need education our way, and we were happy to oblige. But if you're sorting through the tutorials on the channel and they're helping, but you need some extra handholding, then reach out to my team over at Bitcoinmentor.io.

They will help you through everything, whether it be hot wallets, cold wallets, multi-sig, running a node, lightning, all the layer twos, all of that. You can check them out over at Bitcoin mentor.com.com.com. And you can book a session today. Anyways, with that, we're going to round it out. I hope you guys have a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. I'm Ben. This is Nico. And this has been your simply takeover of why are we bullish.

This has been your daily simply session takeover. Okay, bye. See you guys later.