BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Luke Broyles, Cypherpunk Cinema, CJ Konstantinos ep326

Episode Date: February 25, 2023

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/luke_broyles https://twitter.com/CJKonstantinos https://twitter.com/CypherpunkCine 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Nunchuk Wallet and their Honey Badger plan is a best in class assisted mutisig setup with built-in inheritance planning and NO KYC. Use awesome hardware options like the Tapsigner, Coldcard and others to secure your stack with spending limits, emergency lockdowns and more. Pass on your savings to your loved ones with ease in a simple claiming process with full customer support. Check them out today! https://nunchuk.io/ Start9 is your Bitcoin & lightning node, and full personal server - enabling you to take back control from the gatekeepers of your money and data! Grab an Embassy today and become truly self-sovereign! https://start9.com/ Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions HodlHodl is a NON-CUSTODIAL, NON-KYC solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Furthermore, you can check out their Lend platform for p2p loans that are never rehypothecated. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION The Miami Bitcoin Conference is the largest Bitcoin event in the world! Come check it out in Miami Beach Florida on May 18-20th. Use code BTCSESSIONS for 10% off your tickets! https://bm.b.tc/btcsessions Free video tutorials not enough? Need some extra hand-holding when mastering self-custody, multisig, coinjoin, running a node, or other skills? Book me for a private session on my website! https://www.btcsessions.ca/ BITCOIN tips: https://strike.me/btcsessions ⚡[e-mail]

What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show, another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? Got an awesome panel. All newcomers to the show, very excited to have them all on. We'll get them in and we'll do some intros momentarily. But of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my good friend, Bill here.

We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. That thing sucks. If you have not already, like, subscribe, share. All those things help a ton getting this content in front of more eyeballs.

I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. This is timechain calendar.com. We're sitting at $23,078 dollars per coin, a single U.S. dollar over. pick you up 4,333 sats. 91.91% of all Bitcoin have been mine, which is 19.3 million of them. And in terms of fees, next block, 18 stats per byte, if you're willing to wait a little bit, maybe 10 stats per byte should do you. And there's not too much of a backlog in the Mempool right now,

69 megabytes, nowhere near as what it was when the initial influx of, of, uh, j, PAYPIG fans came to the network. Maybe they got a little tired, I guess. Shout out two sponsors to the show, Hodel, Hodel. If you're stacking sats and you've got a few priorities in mind, things like peer-to-peer transacting, things like instant self-custody and no KYC,

then Hottle-Hoddle is the place to go. You can sign up in minutes with nothing more than an email address and be stacking your non-KYC sats like a boss. They also do have a peer-to-peer lending program in which nothing is ever re-hypothicated. You can check them out, hoddle, hoddle. Link is down below. Up next, if you get those non-KyC sats,

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ooh, the cold card Q1, that looks like a beauty. It will be coming out later this year. You can reserve it now. nonetheless, head over to coincite.com. Use code BTC sessions for 5% off anything in the store. If you're looking to go that extra mile beyond just single sig in securing your stack, you can look into assisted multi-sig with the team over at nunchuk.io. I love this wallet, this interface, even just as a regular day-to-day hot wallet or to deal with your hardware.

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And finally, we've got Start9 your sovereign computing solution. I've done a tutorial on how to set this up to run your full Bitcoin stack, Bitcoin Core, Lightning Node, Mempool. Dot space, join Market for Jam app. You can also host your own data, things like passwords, files, photos, you can run a Noster Relay. You can basically host your life on this thing. You can check them out at start9.com and you can buy a plug-and-play item such as

the Embassy One or something really big. beefy to run your whole life on. You can check out the Embassy Pro. And with that, I'm going to stop my renting. I need to get my guests in here. So big welcome to JD, CJK, and Luke. Guys, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. I think some introductions are in order for anybody watching that may be unfamiliar with you. So we'll do a quick round of who are you and what do you do. And I'm going to start with JD. Let people know. Give yourself a little intro. Cool. Hey, everybody. Thanks for having me on, Ben, and I'm stoked to be chatting with you and Luke and CJ. So, J.D., part of Cypherfunk Cinema. Normie, my Fiat mining job is I have a creative agency production company

that's advertising was Orange Pilled in Miami this past year and decided I didn't want to do anything except for work for and with big coiners, which makes it really hard when you're working in the entertainment space because that's no one. Yeah, and so kind of where cyberpunk cinnamon, this whole thing kind of came about as I was like, you know, we're trying to figure out how do we start orange pilling and talking to our normie friends and family who are only watching TV. And, you know, it's really hard to talk to your normie friends and family. He only watch TV. So we're like, well, let's just read them where they are and go start making TV and film. So that's the goal and that's what we're trying to do. Dude, I'm so glad to see more creative people come into the space and, and put together solid content. So you sent me over a, uh, a couple of little sneak peeks of stuff that you're doing and that you've worked on. And it looks fantastic. So I encourage everybody to go check out cyberpunk cinema.

But let's continue with the intros here. I'm going to jump down to Luke. Dude, you've been making the rounds. But for anybody that hasn't seen you on the circuit as of yet, can you give yourself a little intro. Sure. Yeah. I found Bitcoin in 2017. I was not sure what to think about it.

As I've said in other shows, I thought it was either a speculation at best or a scam at worst. And I figured probably more towards the scam category, although I don't think ever quite got there in doubting it. But then similar to JD, 2022, I really fully understood it. 2020 was the year I started to really understand its uniqueness. But 2022 was the year where I really went hardcore and here I am.

So last month, barely a month ago, January, 2023, I posted my first couple Twitter threads, genuinely not expecting them to get any sort of traction. And then they suddenly did. And it's just awesome to be on shows much like this one that I've watched many times before and wonderful shows. And all of a sudden, I'm on them. And I get to talk to all these smart people. So it's great to meet you all. So thanks. Well, dude, I'm glad to have you. I thoroughly enjoyed your chat with Preston Pish, who was it was a blast to listen to. And yeah, you got you you knocked at a couple bangers on the threads there, but you investigated some very interesting topics and threads there. So maybe we'll dive down some of them today, but thanks for being here.

And finally, we're going to jump over to CJK. Dude, thank you for being here. And can you give yourself a little intro to anybody unfamiliar? Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me. It's great to be here. It's one of those shows I've watched. I'm like, whoa, I'm on it now.

So it's real fun. But I actually started in Bitcoin in 20. 2014, this guy named Jeff Berwick, the dollar vigilante, told me all about it. And I didn't really know what it was. But 2016, obviously, was my first having experience. That's where I really started diving into it. And from there, I started mining. So today, I'm a miner. And I just believe Bitcoin is commoditized energy in the form of money. It is one of the least risky commodities to produce in the world. And that's because of Satoshi's design with the difficulty adjustment. It's just such an underappreciated asset and I'm passionate about teaching people why it really is the most pristine form of collateral in the world. Awesome. Well, guys, I'm really excited to speak with all of you, all awesome guests. Now, I do have to let you guys know that you guys aren't the only guests. We have a regular recurring guest here every week.

He's an absolute legend. He goes by the name of David Wong and he often shows up and he'll watch the show. religiously. He shows up every single week. He loves being here, loves chatting with us, hates Bitcoin, but wants to let us know all how wrong we are. So just to get this show off on the right foot, David would like us to know that Bitcoin is dead money. He also wants us to know that a big drop is coming. And if you try to swallow the orange pill now, it will get stuck in your throat. So David, thank you for being here.

being here. David number one fan. Never change. Keep coming back. Love you, man. Did you do a tutorial on David, like on eating a cold card? Because I don't remember that one. Maybe David got it from some of shit corner, but I didn't see that tutorial. I haven't yet. I don't know if he would, he would watch it. I think if I put out like an XRP tutorial, I think that's more up his alley. But we shall see either way. David, welcome to the audience. Glad to have you. But let's kick off the show. Everybody watching, if you're unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish.

Really simple premise of the show. Each one of us comes with a reason why they're bullish, something that we're excited about, top of mind, that we just want to discuss. And so the flow of the show basically goes, somebody's going to drop a reason why they're bullish. Then altogether, we're going to riff on that reason. And then finally, we're going to rotate to the next person until we all get a turn.

So reason, riff, rotate, simple. I'm going to get us started today. And I am feeling bullish on kind of the trajectory of lightning at the moment. Now, I've talked about lightning plenty of times. I've done lots of videos on lightning in different capacities. But there's been a couple things just kind of this month that have kind of caught my eye that I find very interesting in terms of. how we deal with lightning.

You can kind of interact with lightning in a variety of different ways. Obviously, there's the simple jump on a, you know, custodial wallet of Satoshi type thing, you know, download it, you start, and it just works out the gate. But, you know, major

tradeoffs there. There's the kind of in-between options where you're effectively running a lightning note on your own phone by downloading something. Everything's kind of automated and obfuscated in the background, but at the end of the day, you're holding your own keys and this nice kind of in between happy medium. And then there's the dive deep into the weeds, run your own lightning node, establish your own channels, do all of the complicated bits

and really get in there and tinker. So a couple things that have come up recently, and one of them just this week. So this is from Blue Wallet. And so Blue Wallet, and so Blue Wallet, was one of those really easy to use, you know, everything pre-packaged out the gate, but custodial lightning solutions where you just download it, you open it up, and it just kind of works right out out the gate. They had something called L&D Hub and it would automate everything, but again, you were trusting them. They are actually winding this down.

And, you know, a number of people using Blue Wallet will be sad about this. But there's a couple tidbits in here that I wanted to highlight. So basically at the end of it, they said, hey, here's what you need to do, of course. The service will be shut down as of April 30th. If you have SaaS there, please move them to another service or wallet of your choice. If you're running your own LND hub, your own node and linking it to Blue Wallet, you're not affected. And also on-chain regular Bitcoin wallets are completely unaffected. The part at the end, they said, this may sound like bad news, but this essentially means Blue Wallet going forward will only support self-custody solutions.

This is good for Bitcoin and Blue Wallet users. And then they give a list of alternatives down below, which I think are fantastic. You can run your own L&D hub. It might be complicated for some folks. There's LNBits. And then some out-of-the-box solutions where you're actually holding your own keys are Phoenix Wallet and Breeze wallet. And so it's going to funnel people into self-custody.

But beyond that, we're seeing self-custody become easier for applications to add themselves. And what I mean by this is this is Breeze. And Roy from Breeze wallet dropped earlier in the month a blog post about what the SDK is. And effectively, it's a lightning as a service. Basically, you can, you can easily add in a few API calls in your app and be able to run lightning in it without having to know anything about lightning. And it is non-custodial by default. And so a few of the things, again, end to end, it's built into, it has built in liquidity services. on-chain interoperability, and if they need it, third-party Fiat on-ramps.

Again, you can integrate lighting payments into your own app with just a few lines of code. Multiple apps can interact with the same user node. It's non-custodial infrastructure. It never takes possession of user funds. No KYC required. And it's global. And so basically, this is kind of the beginning of applications being able to say, hey, we want lightning payments.

We don't know anything about lightning. And then being able to go to breeze and use this SDK and just say, can we just integrate this right away? And the answer is now yes. And so now you get this experience where you're not leaning on a custodial surface to make something work. They're basically just helping with making sure that you always have the necessary inbound liquidity, that channels are established and closed when they need.

to be and, you know, they, they, you know, obviously they're going to take a little fee when they do that, but at the same time, it's still non-custodial lightning, which is fantastic. Now, this is great. I do think that the custodial lightning solutions are going to continue to be there. But I think there's a possibility that something could be integrated with them to make them so much better than what you get right now. if people decide to make the trade-off of custody, then I think it would be fantastic.

If we started to poke and prod and ask custodial solutions like Wallida Satoshi to consider integrating cashew, which is basically a Chomian e-cash. And so what this does is it allows, right now the way it works, is if you say you want to use wallet of Satoshi. While you don't have to sign up with any information, there's still like a typically if you want to back it up, there's an email address associated with it.

And in some way, shape, or form, whether it be IP address or whatever, wallet of Satoshi needs to know like, hey, this user, even if we don't know their name, has X amount of funds. And we need to allocate those to them until at which time they, they withdraw to another lightning wallet. With something like cashew, which is, again, just kind of an open standard where you can basically build these Chalmian e-cash. It's similar to fetament. But basically what you can do is it blinds everything so that you have one total privacy.

So that would mean wallet of Satoshi is able to more or less guarantee that everybody owns their own. own funds, not, I mean, it's still custodial, but they, they have all the funds allocated to them as such. Wallet of Satoshi has no idea what each individual user owns. It's blinded to them. It's blinded to other users. It's blinded on the outside looking in. Nobody has any idea. And furthermore, when you go to withdraw, it's actually blinded to everyone because you're kind of hiding in a crowd.

Everything is, is just blinded. to everyone. So effectively, you're able to move funds around. I should also note that when you're transacting within the mint, there is no transaction fee involved whatsoever. So you can basically, if you're going to make the trade-off of using a custodial lightning service, why not use one that by default has absolute zero fees and has near perfect privacy? And when you go to withdraw from it, you get the added benefit of privacy from hiding within the crowd so that nobody really knows who sent out of the mint because mints can interact with each other via lightning. So I think that there's just a lot of stuff coming down the pipe that we're just kind of

beginning to see, but things like Blue Wallet saying, hey, we're going to focus just self-custody. And then Bree is saying, hey, we made something so that that's super easy. and anybody can plug it into their app. And then standards like cashew using Chalmy and Mints to say, hey, if you're going to make a tradeoff of custody, how about you get all of these other benefits at the same time? So at least it makes it a little bit more worth it. I think with a combination of all these things,

we've got a lot of great stuff coming down the pipe when it comes to lightning. And I'm super bullish about it. So I'm going to open it up there. I know it's kind of a dense topic, especially with the Chalmy and eCash stuff. A lot of people aren't, you know, including myself, aren't super up to date on what all that crap is. But I want to open it up to you guys and kind of get your take on what your experiences with Lightning have been, if you've already dove into Lightning and kind of your experience with the change over time or where you think we're going. anybody can jump in here feel free i leave it to you yeah i'll hop in if you don't mind because i like to bring this back to like the level zero this goes back to the original point i was making

about how bitcoin it's more than just digital gold we know that it's digital gold store of value but it's transforming into digital collateral and that's what you're seeing with these apps being built on top of bitcoin that allows us to transfer value in between themselves Bitcoin is that collateralized asset in the background that facilitates those transactions of value between people and people. And this is just another example of how lightning is, lightning is really all about monetary velocity. It's about increasing the rate at which Bitcoin can exchange hands so that we can have that peer-to-peer network. And it's just one lens. It's one side of the binocular.

The other side of the binocular is Bitcoin actually being a collateralized asset that's being borrowed against. So you can borrow against it and store value or you can actually just exchange that value straight up. But we're seeing Bitcoin evolve from this digital gold to digital collateral. And that's going to unlock a whole bunch of different options in all of finance, not just peer to peer exchange. Yeah, I think you're totally right. There's, again, these layers on top of the initial base. I mean, it's basically looking at what happened with gold. and because of the transportability and divisibility issue,

we leaned on these paper representations of it. And with that came tradeoffs. But here we're seeing because the asset itself is natively digital, there's things that we can do that we couldn't do with gold. There are guarantees that we can give that we couldn't give with gold in that if you have lightning, if you have lightning funds and it's not in a custodial service, you own the keys to your money. It's like you literally own that Bitcoin.

It's just in a lightning channel, which you own a portion of, as opposed to if you had a dollar bill back when it was peg to gold, you had a dollar bill, but there was no guarantee that it was actually maintaining that peg, which we all know that behind the scenes. definitely that wasn't the case. But yeah, it's just a massive improvement, way better guarantees on what we had in the past. We hopefully have learned from that.

So yeah, anybody else want to jump in? I think it was really interesting about so many thoughts going to come up on this, but prior to this channel was talking with my parents, which will go into my thing, bigger of why I'm bullish. But the current system is so

wrapped up in the complexity and it just continues to affirm for me why it's Bitcoin in and in and of itself but then this new lightning lag like how you can't stop the mind virus that is Bitcoin

you can't like you literally I was just looking at a chart the other day somebody posted and it was like you know from that first transaction from Satotia to hell it just kind of explodes I can't remember posted it but going into what you're saying about lightning It's like that it is that next layer

And it's coming for the banks It's coming for us people And it's like if you're any politician with any sense Whatsoever, you know you're standing on the tracks And you're about to get pile drive And just absolutely destroyed And I know for us Bitcoin is that's really freaking exciting Right

But the one thing for me that's just always been And again I'm baby Bitcoiner right So I know that everybody's probably covered this ground before But like just knowing that And having some family members in banking It's like knowing how many people Are shitting their pants right now it just like makes me excited

but then it also terrifies me for people like my folks who you know it puts more of an onus and you know why I think what you're doing is so important then and what you're doing Luke and what you're doing CJ of like trying to educate people it's like not only are the people who are about to just get wrecked you know as the financial institution

standing on the track everybody else is to and so the fact that Breeze is trying to make this so simple is awesome but there's still a shuffin' work to do and so it's like you know It's cool and it's exciting and it's terrifying. And all of those things are for me personally super motivating, but it's also just like, you know, knowing how hard we have to press as Bitcoiners is just like, damn.

Like it's so it's super motivating, but it's like, you know, this is not going to be a, it's not going to be a quick road, but it definitely will be fun. Yeah. Our work is cut out for us. That's for damn sure. Luke, I'm curious your take on this as well. Yeah.

I think it's very interesting. I think all the things you brought up, were quite fascinating. I've heard of some of them. Others, I was just looking up and reading about because I've not heard of them before. So I don't know if that's just because of that new or just I'm uninformed or something maybe in the middle. But yeah, really fascinating. I think for the vast majority of people watching this,

our Bitcoiners pretty much understand why this makes us optimistic. But I think for those watching that maybe don't understand, I like to kind of like bridge that gap to them really quick, because I think it's hard for us to understand when we're outside of Bitcoin, why Bitcoin would be better than anything else. You know, we can go to our local store and we can purchase anything with a credit card, debit card, or cash for that matter. And it works just fine. It's pretty much an instant payment, whether it's with a $20 bill or $20 of e-cash or your credit card and bank or whatever. And I think sometimes at least when I've spoken to people, but how, oh, lightning's so cool and all these layer twos are so cool because they,

basically make Bitcoin Instant and all that, you know, I think people have trouble understanding that. And why I would just go back to the first principles is that, you know, with the credit card, that's just what we use. And none of us really question how it works or why it could be, or how it even could be improved on because we don't understand how it works. We just swipe the piece of plastic and it magically goes through. But, you know, the average person doesn't know this, but it, you know, it takes a long time for credit cards to batch transactions and their transaction errors all the time. And the difference with Bitcoin being that it settles instantly in a form of currency that cannot be debased and not be diluted over time. So yeah, your credit card's instant and

lightning network is also instant. So it might be hard to see why this is any better at all. It just seems like a more complicated way of doing the same thing. Where the reality is it's 100 times better in the moment in a spatial time frame because it settles instantly. over the lightning network and over through Bitcoin instead of days or even week or even longer through credit cards. But then it's infinitely better over time because, yeah, your credit card works today for, you know, two or three percent fee. But then as a function of time, that underlying currency just declines, whereas Bitcoin

can't be diluted or debased in the same way. So I guess the reason this makes me bullish is because I think once this is large enough and common enough that the difficulty for people to transition is no more difficult than just downloading a typical app on their phone. Because let's be honest, right now it is more difficult technologically for people to understand or at least wrap their head around or what to do, even though it's not really that difficult. I think once we get to that point and I'm excited and also nervous, I might be sooner we think, I think people will then begin to realize and then begin to ask this questions, wait, how do my credit cards work? Wait, how does this work?

How does the FDIC work? How do all these things I've taken for granted work? And I think the best example for this is, you know, if we assume the Bitcoin is a monetary layer of the world, you know, the most similar thing we have to in recent history is the Internet. You know, we just all use newspapers. We all use the Internet or excuse me. We all use radio.

We all used, you know, telephone lines, everything of that sort. And then all of a sudden cell phones and the Internet come along. And once that becomes just as easy for the average person to use, as say go on your local bookstore, then it's like the floor just fell out of all these other industries. And I believe that's where we are today where we're in this kind of weird growth period where for us inside that circle, it seems so obvious as to why this is better because that first layer is just obviously better. And then we're trying to explain the second layer to people. And I think sometimes that's lost in folks because they aren't taking

from the first principles up. They're instead of just looking at that friction cost in the day-to-day life. So really, I'm bullish, frankly, not just because of the tech here that you outline, which I think is interesting. I know very little about it, or at least the ones that you brought specifically. But I think the reason makes me more bullish is because it's like it's a matter of time, you know, 90% of the new things today on layer two will go away in a few years, but of that 10% that remains and survives, you know, I think there could be a couple home runs there that really onboard a ridiculous ton of people. And that's both exciting and terrifying. Yeah. Well, while we're building things up and our layer zero is an equity-based layer,

the traditional system for those credit cards and your bank deposits and your mortgage and your car loans, it's all backed by Treasury collateral. And Treasury collateral is being devalued. It's deteriorating. The reason that these people are so scared is because they have to raise interest rates because they increase the dollar supply by 40% in two years. So they think raising the interest rates is going to fight inflation. But as they're raising interest rates, they're devaluing treasury collateral, right? As yield goes up, principal value goes down. So literally the backing of the entire system is being artificially devalued. And with no forward guidance from these suckers, you know, we're just left to fend for ourselves.

and Bitcoin takes up that fight for us. Yeah, absolutely. Tell me more, CJ. How do you really feel? I'm not the type of, listen, this is my ninth year. I've been around enough to where I can say whatever I want. I don't care what anybody else thinks. That's perfect.

I enjoyed that you mentioned the early days of like Jeff Berwick and that was some of the stuff. That was some of the stuff that I was watching back in the day. Him. There was a dude named David Seaman that was making a bunch of stuff. You know, back before Roger defected all of that stuff back in the day. Check your block space. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I'm going to round out this topic. I encourage anybody that has not dove into some of the topics that were mentioned. Check it out. Chego Breeze wallet. It's quite good. It's non-custodial. And it's basically you're running a lightning node on your phone, but you don't have to think about everything. All the all the inbound and outbound liquidity is just kind of managed for you. And then also maybe take a peek at

Cashew. I am going to be doing a video. I'm just kind of waiting on it. I experienced something weird with one of the other apps that I was using. So I'm just kind of waiting on a bug fix there. It's very early days for that stuff. So don't anticipate it being like super simple to to use and it to be super reliable but to play around with a few you know a couple thousand sats or something it's it's a lot of fun it's really interesting so anyways with that let's do a rotation now uh david has been uh letting us know plenty of important things in the chat by the way uh he said that digital gold can vanish but physical gold will always be there although i don't know if that's quite true if

you're one of the nations trying to repatriate your gold. That may not be the case that history is right. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And then he also wanted us to know that credit with a credit card, you can wait until the end of the month to pay. Nothing like delayed responsibility. So, nonetheless, we're going to rotate and I'm going to toss it to JD first.

And I'm just going to cue you up with a simple question. Why are you bullish? Great question. It actually changed a little bit for me over the last four hours. So I was orange-filled last year, as I was saying, and kind of like, I got orange-filled and I was so like on fire. And I'd still at that point. But like I would talk to my mom about it and literally had my mom one time just say, hey, I have to wash my hair and hang up the phone when I was talking about Bitcoin. I was like, did my mom just pull the like, I have to wash my hair and leave thing? And like, like, literally like rage quit a phone call because I'm talking about Bitcoin and that absolutely happened. So why I'm bullish though is because so many people myself included are so focused on orange-pilling normies. Like I was a normie literally until last year and like what I just love is, you know, just huge lists for like, thank God for Bitcoin. We have the great pleasure of working with those guys. You know, they're doing an awesome job like Beef Initiative, big part of me being orange-pilled.

there's a great documentary I call me out called Dirty Coin being made by like Alana and like you know Shamri people I'm literally can go off a full list PTC trading cards like you know Brandon Gentile who's like the Mark Moss of education for kids

all of these people that I've been talking to and I have a giant list because I'm so focused on this orange grilling Normies thing just constantly continues to reinvigrate me and give me more fire because like you know it took me like Bitcoin's been around for 14 years like it took me 14 years to frick and figure it out

And the problem is, you know, these freaking things, right? It's like we have a TV in front of our face constantly. We have a screen in front of our face constantly. Like our society have shifted from going outside, scraping knees, like making mistakes, being dumb. And, you know, shifted into this parasitic, the most vivid and best example from cinema. I can give you what the hell is going on right now is if you guys remember the riddler from Batman Forever, where, you know, Jim Carrey, they basically, So we have the idiot box or the two with all the green shit going to Phil's head. That's reality right now.

And it is terrifying. It's the truth, though, right? Like at the end of the day, whatever you get from your idiot box is, you know, garbage in, garbage out. If you want to use an engineering or just kind of like a normal adage. And so I'm so bullish, though, that there's such a, you know, rising, urgent community of like myself and a bunch of other people trying to, you know, work on stuff that's not just for Bitcoiners. I think education is absolutely needed and absolutely is a piece of that. My personal gift, I would say, is not that. You know, I can't be Ben.

I'm not as attractive as Ben or anybody else in this call. So I definitely don't want to be. There's a reason I'm behind the camera for a reason. But the main reason for that is like I really want to continue to start pushing on the normie button where the normies are because at the end of the day, you know, like, you know, where I'm going with this is my mom doesn't care. about Bitcoin. My mom doesn't care about Michael Saylor. My mom doesn't care about Ben. My mom doesn't care about Swans. She doesn't care about, you know, Naprinnell. She doesn't care about all these people who are doing,

you know, Odell, kick ass content. Sorry, I hope things were. Um, you're fine. But it's like, that content, the quality of it. They're, you know, you know, trust money, you know, all these different amazing things that are really geared towards the, the Bitcoin community. Now, you know, they're trying to go mainstream, but it's like they're not focused on. You know, you know, on the aspect of like, I don't care if you understand Bitcoin. I just want to plant the seed. That's what I'm starting to see with a lot of different people. You know, Brandon and I have been talking quite a bit.

You know, the whole goal is like, how do we start getting, you know, because I have young kids and young kids. And it's like, how do we get to this point where at the end of the day? I appreciate that. Whoever in our role talk with this. But like at the end of the day, like how do we start reaching the kids? like Greg Foss is for the kids like that is so freaking top of mind and so important so like what I'm super bullish on is the fact that I'm just seeing so many people and I can be kind of a part of that wave of people trying to put their you know fingers in the ocean at this point in time to try to you know make a ripple in this giant freaking thing that is the world of everything because yeah now I'm rambling but the the top line and the note behind the note is like we can't break people out of the matrix, they have to break themselves out.

But if we put it where they already are, we can find, you know, my big thing is like Bitcoin needs a halo. Bitcoin needs a halo, right? And then if you're not familiar with that adage or like where it's coming from, if you're around, if you're, you know, around when the original Xbox came out, right? The original Xbox, my background is advertising marketing, would have sucked and it would not have been a success of it, did not have Halo as a video game. It had a tent pole thing.

There's a reason why every freaking movie you see right now from Hollywood is. Marvel because it has an audience. There's a built-in audience in there, and they want to spend their money where they know it's going to work. That's why Hogwarts has been blown out of this giant thing, right? Harry Potter is so huge because of that. And so, you know, at the end of the day, Bitcoin needs a tent pole halo that, like, and Bitcoin is the halo, right?

At the end of the day, like, Bitcoin's the halo. It's going to win. I'm sure of it. And it's going to win for that reason. But how many people can we get on the life raft before that tipping point where the shit really, really, really focused on it. That's why I'm so bullish that so many people are looking at the same thing I'm looking at because at the end of the day like I just am almost finished with the mandibles and it's

also absolutely freaking terrifying and uh I don't want to live in that world and I want to make sure I can be positive as few people as possible are living in that world. Yeah that's why I'm bullish. Absolutely. I love all the shoutouts that you gave there. There's so many. I think all of the people that you talked about and plenty more, um, are, are part of the reason why, um,

and I'm sure, you know, I mean, you're, you're an example of this, but so many people are able to dive into the space and, and, and get such a deep grasp of things so quickly.

Uh, because that was not the case for me. When I came in, it was like years of tearing my hair out. I don't know how to do anything, just sorting through stuff. Oh, maybe that.

that coin makes sense. Maybe that coin may, and going down these little, you know, side quests of failure and, and then coming back to the main path and going, oh, yeah, I guess that was dumb.

I should have seen that coming. But there was no, there was no content. There was no kind of unified voice that, that had a cohesive message in and around what this is and what it can be. And that has changed. a lot. And I think it's easy to see through that now. It doesn't take, you know, as long as you get tuned into the signal at some point, it doesn't take very long before you start seeing, wow,

everybody over here is very consistent in what they're saying and makes logical sense. And everybody over here keeps on having to change their message as as Bitcoin adapts to do what they want to do, or as the things that they were doing implode. And so people get on this learning trajectory where even if they go a little off path, all of a sudden they get back onto the path briefly and they're tuned right into just awesome signal. There's so much of it.

I got to one other filmmaker out there. I've got to give a shout out to Max DeMarco, Pleb Music. He's been killing it lately. So really like that. And then the Freedom Money series with Odell is fantastic. And I thought of that because you mentioned the mandibles. I don't know if you saw this, but he just had the author on, I think today, Lionel Shriver. So she came on as a guest on the show.

So I'm going to have to go and listen to that because I thoroughly enjoyed that book, even though it was a big downer. It was still quite good. Yeah. Did you see that? She was on there? I haven't seen that yet. I know Mills, who's part of that team, is

freaking phenomenal. I love all this stuff that they're doing with that. And also another great shoutout is, like, Bitcoin Shooter Mike, like, freaking, you know, just doing so many awesome things. Like, you know, Brecky at Swan, like, they're, like, you know, and I drew this just because, like, again, like, all these things.

It's like the adoption curve of people aren't familiar, innovators, early adopters, this is kind of where we are right now, and it's like mass adoption and then kind of the laggards. But, like, you know, you, Ben, are in this innovator. category and like we're kind of at this place right now before we really just exponentially explode and like you know I like the groundwork and the reason people like me and like you know

everybody else can come on right now is because you guys laid the foundation you know and I think that you know I think anybody with any sense would argue constantly that every generation is standing on the shoulders of the giants of the generation before it's like that's kind of like where we are so thank you for your contribution like the fact that I'm even here as well. But yeah, like, it's just, it's mind-boggling and fantastic. And so that's why I'm bullish. There's so many pricking off some people. Well, again, glad to have you here. And I'm sure I will be excited to see your contribution. And again, I mean, I basically just got to come in and test out all the cool shit that people built. And so, you know, like the only reason that I get

to even host a show is because people are building incredible things that I get to test out and then show people how to use. So, yeah, I mean, everybody kind of, I think everybody gets to Bitcoin and then starts trying to decipher how they can spend the most amount of time in and around Bitcoin, which is great. I'm curious to open it up to either CJ or Luke in regards to, again, this idea of content creation and signal and the people that are kind of helping distill this for maybe the people that don't care about it yet. What are your thoughts there, whoever wants to jump in?

Yeah, I'm happy to. I think my perspective on that, there is, again, I'm just humbly and grateful that I'm even here and that I've gotten pretty decent following online, I guess. And, well, even more impressively in a short period of time, which again is not to say that that's something great about me, is just to say that it was shocking to me of how great the need is. for signal in this noisy world and how few people there are that are out there talking about it.

I mean, really, you know, there's hundreds and hundreds of people online that are, I would say, grounded in reality and eventually come to the realization that Bitcoin either is the global monetary singularity or it's extremely probable to be. But I think the ratio between those grounded voices and the signal versus the noise is, what, 100 to 1, 500 to 1, 800, 100, 1,000 to 1. Something ridiculous with all the crypto folks and all the mainstream people on TV or, you know, but it's just very difficult. And I think that we, I think the best way to put it is that right now, it has never been

easier to learn about Bitcoin and why Bitcoin and why Bitcoin only and everything of that sort. However, I think looking, I think a different way to put it would be that it will never be this hard again in the future. Like it's only going to get easier to learn. And I think that's what people struggle with. Again, going back to my earlier point before about how so much of this just comes to friction costs. And the average person, you know, perhaps is listening right now. And they don't really understand somewhat we're talking about. Maybe they understand parts and they find it interesting and they, you know, hopefully follow all of us on all of our socials later and learn more.

but at the end of the day, it all comes down to friction costs for the vast majority of people. You know, most people don't know how the Internet works. Most people will never know how Bitcoin works. Most people will never articulate or understand to any deep level like any of us do why proof of work is better than proof of state or why the difficulty adjustments important. You know, most people will never realize that. You know, they'll probably understand scarcity. They'll probably understand this and the other.

But the reality is that at least for the next few decades, most people only can't. care about friction costs. And I think a big part of that is education and is content. And so right now I'm very excited in that it's still so early enough that if one is just speaking truth and doing it well and doing articulately, it seems that they can get some following and help out a lot of people. Like for me, that's the most rewarding part. You know, I talk to so many people and been able to help them. And at the same time, it's also exciting for the future because that means that there's so many more people to enter in and help educate, create content, creating writings and books and movies, you know, like JD and everything of that sort.

So it's very, it's very exciting for me. I love that, that tidbit there. It, uh, it will never be as hard to learn as it is right now. Uh, that's fantastic. And I mean, it's, it's true, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's easier than it's ever been. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's, it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, Again, it's the same type of trajectory or in and around. The internet, smartphones, all that stuff, you know, it first comes out, incredibly difficult. And now you have grandparents rockin iPads, and it's simple for them to, you know, jump on, you know, online and watch videos and share cat pictures

and whatever people decide to do with their time. Yeah, it's simple. And I think that's their trajectory we're on. And soon people won't even necessarily need to, dive as deep as even we're chatting about. It'll just be, hey, this is here, and it works. And we know the general properties of it. It's decentralized.

It's censorship resistant. And I own my own money. And there's a limited supply. So that's what they'll need to know. That's all they're all they'll know. So that's great. CJ, I want to let you dive in here too. Yeah.

So, yeah, education is key. And I do think it's important to do a deep dive. I mean, when I first invested, I didn't really understand Bitcoin. We're all in the same boat. We all have the same testimony. But after I started mining, whole new game, whole new understanding. It just opens up the door. So I encourage people, you know, if you have some time to pick up a hobby miner, you know, pick up a cheap miner and you're not going to make money, but what you learn will be worth more than it costs you to run that minor because it just teaches you so much about the producing. producer economics of Bitcoin. And it's worth it. And the other thing I would say is that as far as

the people go, there are a lot of great educators. There's a lot of great books out there. But I think the smartest economists in the world are Bitcoiners. I mean, some that come to mine are like Lynn Alden. I don't want to drop too many. I'm not going to drop too many names over here. But I just want to say, the economists that are in Bitcoin should actually be on the governors of the Federal Reserve. They really should because they understand what's going on. on and they have opened their mind up to be able to listen to different ideas. And that's what's so important about the content you're going to be making, JD. It's going to open up that door and get people to ask those questions.

So once they ask those questions, they'll go to the deeper levels. And once you get to the deeper levels, nothing can change your thesis. Nothing can change your understanding. And you've truly broken free from the matrix. A lot of people I talk to are like one foot in the bubble and one foot out. And they're like, they don't really know where to go. They don't really have that confidence that you see that Luke has that says, listen, this is happening. Get on the train or get out of the way because nothing's going to stop it.

And education is what's going to get people on the train rather than kind of being nervously backing away from it, thinking it's moving too fast. But getting into education. And I love Greg too. I recently saw him in Bitcoin Naples. He took for the kids. It's for the kids. I have three kids myself and I try to teach them about Bitcoin to save in Bitcoin to understand those common principles.

And especially here I go back to collateral. But, you know, my daughter, I'm like, hey, can I borrow your phone? And I take her phone and go, okay, I'll just keep it for the rest of the night. Wait, what's going on, Dad? Well, hey, you should have requested some form of collateral, something that you could have traded back. You know, you got. So there's just, there's so much room for educators to come in and find different ways to teach the kids, not only about the basics, but about the deep.

levels of how this system works too. Yep. And I think the wrapping up on this one from my side, but like, you know, the big thing about kids content, like, I think there's a huge void there. I love Scott and Mallory at Chalmary, but Good Night Bitcoin is my son's favorite book and he brings it to him every morning.

Like, I actually don't want to read this anymore. Like, I'm at the point. I don't want to read this anymore. And so it's just like so important. But I think the last piece on this and again, like the Normy content piece talking about my mom from before, started planting the seeds after. after I was orange-billed, would not shut the hell up about Bitcoin. And now, you know, my wife was like,

should probably stop talking about this. I'm like, okay. But getting off the plane, just in where I landed, started just, you know, again, still talking about Bitcoin, but kind of going into it. And finally, some of those seeds, it's been almost a year now, have started to percolate. And some of the things that I said have started to percolate.

And like literally right before this call, I'm having the first conversation where I'm able to kind of start. orange billing my parents, which is insane. You know, Alex from Swan called it the one-way door. And I know he says he found that somewhere else on the camera where he found it. But like, that's what Bitcoin is. Like, Bitcoin is the one-way door that you can never go back. And it's, you know, planting those seeds, that's all I care about. There are too many great educators. I will never be one of them. So I just want to be a sower of seed. And they'll get to Luke,

they'll get to CJ, they'll get to, you know, Ben, they'll get to everybody else. I don't care. I just want to plant seeds. You guys grow. Can I add something to that? Yeah, yeah, go. Yeah, J.D., I think that was an excellent point. And one thing I just like to say for the other person, you know, again, focusing on them, the reason J.D. cares so much here and the reason all of us care so much here, the reason I talk about it so much, and I know pretty much everyone in my own life, as I'm sure you all do, is because we have conviction in this. And our conviction, at least the way I would put it in my terms, is that I genuinely believe there will become a day, not in the too distant future, where, eventually Bitcoin educated folks are an extremely short supply. And the demand for our perspectives will become so valuable that we just might not have time. It would be so busy. It would be so dramatic.

And the reason for that, you know, again, if we think back to the internet, you know, the average IT person, you know, basically IT has been completely understaffed for, you know, basically in perpetuity since the beginning of the internet. because the adoption curve of the internet has been faster than people are willing to go and get the education and go to school and do the proper learning. And like you've heard repeatedly already from everyone else in the show today, you know, it's taken all this years. It took me about five years, four years to really understand it to JD until just 2022. You know, BTC sessions, you know, it took him a long time, you know, all four of us. It took us years to understand this.

And because we've gone through that work, because we understand this takes time for our human brains to adapt, and we see how fast this is growing, you know, like I said, eventually this is going to become so mainstream that everyone, everyone in their mother is going to be trying to learn about this thing. And there just won't be enough people to help educate folks. And so we're trying, as JD eloquently put it, to plant seeds now so that hopefully more people can begin to learn before that curve becomes much more dramatic. everyone's average life. So yeah, that's the point there that I would like to make too. That's why we care so much. There's only one place for those, Mike. Only one place for those.

But yeah. Bitcoin shooter in the chat, diving in, telling, telling JD to sow his seeds. So thanks for being here, man. I just, there was somebody commenting in,

in there. and they wanted to know the titles of those books that you mentioned. I just brought them up. But anyways, they're from Shamari. There's two. There's, if you give a monster, a Bitcoin and Good Night Bitcoin. But yeah, they're both very kid-friendly. Good night reads for them.

And yeah, I don't know. These guys are doing good work. So check them out. It's shamari.com, S-H-A-M-R-Y dot com. But yeah, anyway. I digress. Awesome. Great topic.

But I think it's time we do a little rotation here. So I'm going to jump down and I'm going to give it to Luke now. And I'm going to queue you up with the same question. And I'm just simply going to say, why are you bullish? Why am I bullish? Why am I bullish on Bitcoin? Well, I think I'm bullish on Bitcoin. I think I'm bullish on Bitcoin, especially right now.

because I don't see any other way to be. I don't think there's any optimistic path forward other than being bullish on Bitcoin. And I think for a lot of it's in the space, what I just said makes sense, but for those, it doesn't like to explain that. What do I mean by that? Well, what I mean is that if we look at the world objectively over the last 4,000 years, as a function of tech adoption curves and eras of political regimes, it doesn't matter how the political regime is structured,

It's basically a set of rules that allocates resources, and those resources either grow or shrink as a function of population and technology efficiency per capita. And as these political systems roll over and they change, they inevitably lead to violence or revolution or some sort of massive inefficiency in a system. So, you know, if we could give 100 different examples of that, we could give Rome, we could give China and all of its dynasties, we could give all the, powers of Europe, you know, Portugal and Spain and the Netherlands and the British and the French and the Germans and on and on and on for hundreds of years, thousands of years. We have hundreds of

examples of this happening. And if we just look at the world objectively and the world today, what do we have? Well, we have the U.S. United States of America and our native political currency unit, the U.S. dollar. And it's worked for a long time. It's worked for a very long time. however most people don't realize that are rolling over of the eras of these regimes is getting shorter and shorter. One of the slides that really made a hit for a lot of people in my podcast with Preston was this chart of how the reserve currencies of Earth are getting shorter and shorter and shorter over time. And why is that? It's because technology gets faster and faster. And so where we are today is that people think the U.S. dollar is immovable. And that's just not true. The U.S. dollar, as you know,

is barely 50 years old. It's not old. We're using technology in our fast-paced world that is older than the U.S. dollar. It's not old. We had one monetary system before 1913, and we had the Federal Reserve come in. That created a sort of new monetary system with the Federal Reserve and the creation of the Federal Reserve. And then in 44, you're the Bretton Woods Act. That was a new monetary era of the United States. And then 1971, that's a new. monetary era of the United States. And yeah, sure, it's the same numbers on a piece of paper. It looks the same. It feels the same. But fundamentally, again, forget the friction costs that you deal with your everyday life. Even if that's the same, the entire system fundamentally

died and had a rebirth in 1971. And we were in this new era. And these, now we're at 50 years. It used to be 1,000 years. Then it's at 100 years. Then it was 80 years. Now we're, you know, 50, 52 years or whatever it is for the U.S. dollar. And I don't know, maybe we have another 10 maybe we've another 20 years, maybe we move another two years. I have no idea. But if we just look at it objectively, it's like the only logical assumption one can make is that this political regime and this political monetary system eventually has to reset to what its true value is, along with every other monetary system in the past. It's as objectively obvious as saying our technology has to eventually become outdated to new technology. And it's like it's not it's not bold. That's not, you know, people keep saying I'm bold, that I'm this and the other, and I appreciate the compliments, but the reality is I'm not really that bold. It's like it should be obvious that at some point in the future, things will change. And when they change, the thing that exists today inherently cannot coexist with the thing of the future. And so if we have that assumption that it's essentially obvious, the U.S. dollar has to continue to decline until the moment where the floor basically falls out is, every other monetary open system has in the past. You know, what's our base case assumption? Well, we could be optimistic and that's wonderful, but it makes a lot more sense to be realistic.

And I think the only realistic scenario here is that we will have some sort of major conflict. You know, we had the World War II, 1945, ended with the atomic bomb. That was a major technological shift, obviously, in war. And then, of course, the Bretton Woods Agreement in 44, that helped establish this era. So we were in this beautiful post-World War II boom, where we've had this monetary era of this peaceful post-World War II era. But it seems to me, and especially now, you know, people are freaking out about Ukraine and everything of that sort. But the reality is Ukraine is not the beginning of it. These wars have been escalating, especially in the developing world.

And I'm terrified that they're only going to continue. They're only going to continue, and they're only going to probably continue to get worse. as populations continue to grow and as technology continues to threaten the incumbents of the previous technological era and as resources are allocated between political jurisdictions. I mean, what is war? War is the collapse of rules in a given political system or a couple of political systems, and eventually those resources

have to be reallocated in a form of proof of work network to the political system that wins and has more guns at the end of the day. And so if we view that as the problem of our era, that we are in a problem, what is our problem? Our problem is that the U.S. dollar is in decline. We know this. Our problem is that technology is threatening the bureaucrats and the technologists of yesterday with the future of tomorrow. And that's a good thing, but the reality is creative destruction has destruction.

And so when you face people that have a decreasing probability of survival in the future, and you give them an increasing incentive to lash out against that probability violently, the probability of war only goes up. And now this time we have nukes and a horrible variety of other weapons. And so I really, you know, again, when people say I'm bold, predicting things will change. And likewise, people sometimes say them on doomsday or saying that World War III is, probably inevitable if we go down this path. I don't really think it's that absurd.

It's like we've had war for thousands of years. I think to magically assume that we're in the first globalized period since World War II, I think to magically assume that just because we're global now, it means we have no more war. And that's the extent of our reasoning. I don't think that makes a lot of sense. So if that's the only path we have in this worldview, the only option I can think of is, well, what if there's a different path?

What if there's a different worldview? Now, this is what Tesla envisioned in 1900, and this is what Jason Lowry, with his 400-page thesis, just put out. And one of the reasons he's one of my favorite bitcoiners, even though he's arguably the most controversial person in Bitcoin right now, no matter what you think of as incentives of personality or character or whatever, that's irrelevant to the point. The point is his entire message is that we are probably heading towards some sort of event where nation states and companies and people need to exert a brute force physical cost on each other. And that can either be kinetic in form of mass, aka guns and bullets and nukes, or that can be energy, aka the dominant work time chain, the dominant protocol. And that's Bitcoin.

And so why am my bullish Bitcoin? Well, I would say it's because the only optimistic scenario I can think of. Either we're heading towards some sort of major calamity, a global crisis, where tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people might perish either directly or indirectly, or directly. or Bitcoin survives. And so, you know, it's fine if you understand Bitcoin yet, and it's fine if you think it might fail. But I think if we're going to assume that the 21st century is going to be right,

I think we have to assume that Bitcoin has to survive. And the exciting thing for me is that it appears ridiculously likely that it's going to survive. And I spend a lot of time trying to find ways it could die because I went to eliminate those probabilities as fast as I can so that it can survive. And it's exciting that the more I look, the less weaknesses I see and the less weak points I see. So it makes me very optimistic not just for Bitcoin, but also for the future and the millions of people that need us. So roundabout thing, what I really took away from that is you don't think JPEGs will kill Bitcoin. That's not on your dingo code.

JPEGs are not a threat to the protocol. that is designed to prevent World War III. No, thank God, JPEGs are not a threat. Yeah, yeah, I think we're probably on the same wavelength there. Yeah, it's, it's, again, things always get dicey when you can't act, like the measuring stick of people's value becomes skewed. And people get angry and they don't understand what they're angry at or where all of their woes are coming from.

They can't quite place it. And that makes it very easy to direct that for somebody to come in and direct that anger towards another nation or a whole other group of people. You know, we saw, and you mentioned this in your podcast with Preston, but I got the book on my shelf here, but when money dies, talks a lot about this and the insanity in the 1920s in Weimar, Germany, which, you know, had a major impact on and definitely contributed to what led to World War II. So in a world where every currency is effectively a useless measuring stick now, of course, there's a ton of anger.

There's people in disarray. They don't know where to direct their anger. And it's very easy to take advantage of that. But thankfully, you know, we're holding the golden measuring stick here for people to actually, you know, see reality once again. And hopefully it proliferates enough and quickly enough that we can avoid some of that calamity. But I'm going to let, sorry, if you want to. I wouldn't think that, you know, because I know a lot of people, especially those that aren't orange-filled, might find what I'm saying is dramatic.

But I think you hit the nail in the head that everyone feels it. Everyone feels sort of stabilized. And it's only getting worse and worse and worse. You know, the lockdowns of 2020, but not the cause, they were a symptom. You know, the great financial crisis in 2008, the wars in Iraq, you know, the instability in other places, the war in Ukraine. All these things are symptoms of the underlying problem. And the underlying problem is that this boom that we've had after World War II is eventually. becoming top heavy with all this debt globally. And now we're feeling that this, this sort of

like pressure chamber release at the weakest points. And that just happens to be Ukraine was a weak point. And our preparedness and readiness for a pandemic was a weak point. All these things are weak points. And so it's like when everyone keeps replacing the people in power and other people in power and none of them are solving a problem is because you can't solve the problem of the system within the given system, what do people do? Well, they want to tear down the system. And that's how you get revolution. So yeah, this really I don't see any other way. It's either revolution violently or revolution peacefully. And the peaceful revolution happens to be orange. Do you, do any of you guys, I'm sure at least a couple of you, if not all,

all this conversation about kind of these huge shifts makes me think of the book, the fourth turning. And the idea of kind of, again, good times create, you know, or rather bad, hard times create strong men strong men create good times good times create weak men weak men create hard times and this kind of perpetual cycle of like you know you yeah like we've been doing borrowing from our future selves making it inevitable that eventually somebody's going to have to pay the piper and then you get these hard times and then you basically have to tear it all down and rebuild from scratch um i i definitely see lincoln elements of that now and knowing that book was written in, I think, 96 or 97 and kind of

watching the trajectory of what they laid out along with the sovereign individual. It's just it was so prescient. And it's not like they hit everything on the head, but like the general trajectory, the general idea of it, man, is it ever manifesting before our eyes? But, you know, I'm hoping that like you're alluding to, that that, that big, Bitcoin becomes the thing that either breaks those cycles or at least smooths them over because there's reason and reality. And it limits the insanity that we can lead ourselves down. So I want to get some takes from CJ and JD. Maybe I'll go to CJ first and then I'll go to JD after so that we can jump to CJ's topic afterwards.

But CJ, comments. So, yeah, what came to my mind when you were talking, Luke, is that the dollars at the end of its currency lifecycle. That's really what's happening. And people are in denial of that. And we know we're close to the end because of that change of the measurement stick. That's what's happening here. When those dollars were first issued, they were a derivative of gold. They represented equity.

And as you mentioned in 71, when they changed that, they made a new system. system and debt, dollars became a derivative of debt, meaning they were representative of tomorrow's promise of production rather than yesterday's proof of production. And when they did that, they kind of opened Pandora's box. And that really is what allowed the government with the Fed to create all this new currency. And the real problem is that they're creating the currency faster than the economy is growing. You know, I do, I don't, I'm not a Keynesian. I don't think monetary theory is, is accurate, but you can expand the monetary supply with the growth of the demand from the economy. That, that is possible. You know, in other words, when gold was backing the dollar, there was still a credit market, but it was backed by equity. It wasn't backed by debt. You don't back debt with debt. And people now are starting to realize, wait a second, the reason we have this problem is because we're building. debt products on top of debt products on top of derivative debt products. And we're levering up.

Right. So you have debt times 10 times 100. And now it's getting to a point where debt to GDP is beyond. And for people who don't know what that means, that just means we've spent so much money that if we took all the money that the world can produce in one year, we've borrowed more than that. We've created more money than we can ever pay back. And what happens is as they create more and more of it, that currency loses its purchasing power. So it's, it's, It's a very basic concept that even my children understand. When there's more of something, it's worth less. When there's less of something, it's worth more.

And they've abused that power. And Bitcoin takes away that right for them to abuse that power. It takes away the ability for them to abuse that power. It brings us from the debt-based system back to an equity-based system. But with the compliments of gold that we were talking earlier, where it's portable settlement is quick and fast and cheap and easy. and it truly is a technological advancement. So I love what you said.

You're like, I'm not being bold. I'm just being honest with you. You're talking about old paper technology. You write shit down or you email people. Come on now. You know, it's all digital. And that's where this is going. And Bitcoin is going to allow us to do it instead of having to trust the government and

bankers to do it. And that's what I want people to wake up to. That's the hope behind your kind of probability is that the probability is things are going to get better, not worse, because we're going back to an equity-based system and we're forgetting about these debt-based lies that we were told we're going to work and ultimately did not. Absolutely. Luke, I don't know if you want to throw in anything there, but I'll toss it up.

Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it was great. Yeah, I guess, yeah, just to add on to that, like what you said, that the email versus the paper was really funny to me because it's like in hindsight, it's so obvious. My first thread was really about this. It's about how we have less in common with the future than we do with the past. And, you know, that was the first one that really blew up.

I think because I put it in such a way that makes it seem so obvious that Bitcoiners really liked it because it's like, oh, wow, this is obvious. And a lot of people that aren't Bitcoiners, or at least yet, also like to, I think, for that reason. So anyway, just like CJ said, you know, it's like email versus paper. It's like, in hindsight, it's so obvious that the future has. has to be different. And so the way, the world as we know it is going to end one way or another. So it's just a matter how we choose it. So, yeah. Jady, I want to toss it to you, thoughts on what's being discussed here. Three quick things. I want to attack. That's the wrong word, David.

But I want to talk about David's last thing. It's 8 billion people go for 21 million coins, the price won't plate and cause suffering for many. I thought that too, David. I actually absolutely thought that. And BTC pins totally rocked my world with this, quick notion of this. At the end of the day, technological advancement doesn't happen equitably. Doesn't. At the end of the day, somebody had the radio first, somebody had the wheel first, somebody had refrigeration first, salt, et cetera. Doesn't happen on one thing.

But what Bitcoin does, which is freaking amazing, if you have a software engineer and that software engineers and say India, for one, take of argument, or somewhere in San Francisco, wherever, when we go to a world where you're paying that software engineer in India, 100,000 sats, and you're paying that software engineer, in San Francisco, 100,000 stats. Guess what? Both economies get freaking better.

That's fucking cool. Part one. The entire world wins. It's awesome, right? Like, that's so freaking cool. It's terrifying. But at the same time, it becomes a meritocracy again for all, which I would argue is not a bad thing. Second thing.

I love what you were saying about the whole reset thing, right? Like at the end of the day, we don't have good language to talk about this reset that's coming. the floor is going to fall out. And I think what's crazy about the floor falling out, though, is like, I'm like, how do we talk to these zoomers who don't get it? And I think an interesting thing we can tell for zoomers is like, hey, you know how when you respawn,

you lose all your shit? That's what's coming. If you don't have Bitcoin, you're going to lose all your shit. Third thing, and the last thing, when I got here, this is my room, actually. This is where, this is my, this is my room. Like, I'm not normally in my room.

So this is my room, like, you know, back in my childhood home. and I was going through a box that I've never gone through. It's literally been on my shelf for a lot of years. I found this. This is the military missile. MI missile, if I don't know, M-I-S-S-A-L, so my grandfather was Catholic.

Inside of here are all the things that he had with him during the war. They were in World War II. He was a tank driver. Liberated concentration camps. I'm not going to go down the Holocaust trial guys. Decide that for yourself. But outside of this thing being in here, which totally is a Italian prayer card, which is kind of fascinating, that's a Nazi and saying down the back, by the way. I don't think this placement is unintentional.

And this is my last point of what I want to say. This is the divine protector prayer on a card. And opposite, the U.S. Divine Protector card is one he took from the Italian Soul. And so where I want to go with this, and I think this is why I'm also so bullish on freaking Bitcoin. I worked at a tech company. Global tech company did the entire world. At the end of the day, we did an interview series that talked to everyone about the exact same thing. Why are you doing what you're doing?

The answer is always the same. To provide from my family and those that I love. Period. That's it. To make a better world. And so at the end of the day, when the shit starts hitting the fan, like my grandfather knew it, obviously. And he probably started to have a lot of shitty thoughts. be like they are literally praying the exact same thing to the exact same God.

And I'm a Christian and I totally believe in God. And I think, you know, we're not going to go on that route. But at the end of the day, we start doing shitty things to ourselves because we start to dehumanize the other person. And we need to make sure that when the start shit, the shit starts hitting the fan, which it's going to, that we can constantly break through and continue to humanize and move forward in a way that is going to push the future to be orange because that will be better for all of humanity. So I drive over. But anyways, I enjoyed that. And I think, again, Bitcoin is a tool that

it kind of goes by that ethos, right? Like somebody that you assume that you're supposed to hate, if they can use it, not only does it work for them, but it makes it better and stronger for you. Right. The network is stronger, the more people use it, including people that you dislike. And so Bitcoin doesn't care. It helps build a more prosperous world for us all. And it doesn't elevate, it doesn't elevate one person over another. It's equal opportunity for all. To your earlier point, you were tagging on to something that David said about

if 8 billion people go after 21 million coins. I think there's a little confusion in around the economics there because at the end of the day, if you have a limited supply money and even if you're late to the game, the demand of somebody wanting that and more, and everybody's starting to use that, if it results in like a mild deflation

because our, you know, hopefully our population continues to grow and we continue to innovate and be able to create more with less effort. That just means that the money that you do save can purchase, more. And I mean, I don't think anybody or outside of like Paul Krugman and the merry band

of economists that we have guiding monetary policy these days. But outside of those people, there's not too many people that you would say, how horrible would it be if tomorrow your dollars that you had in your bank account could buy more stuff? Not many people are going to look at that and go, oh, that would be just awful. I would hate if that habit. That's a positive thing. And the idea of actually saving for the future is also a positive thing. You know, people throw out arguments of, well, it'll crash the economy because everybody will save and nobody wants to spend. But that's that's very much disproven just with technology.

Everybody knows there's going to be a faster, cheaper phone next year. People still get cell phones. People still get still get the TVs. They know that the exact model they're looking at will be cheaper next year. People still get gaming consoles. You were talking about Hogwarts Legacy and all that. People still buy these things. They know the game is going to be cheaper next year and the year after and the year after.

Well, some people, they do want to consume and they weigh buying it now or buying it later. But at the end of the day, it's going to force people that are producing things to make goods that are more attractive and more likely to have people willing to part with their sats. And then if it's not good enough, you'll have the trinkety garbage that you see on our store shelves today begin to disappear because nobody's buying it. And you'll also have people saving for their future. And their savings will actually increase in value over time. And they won't have to gamble with them just in the hopes of making it through retirement. And I think that's a beautiful thing. I think a lot of people wouldn't be mysteriously angry at the world if that was the case.

if you could just be good at something, earn some money, and just spend less than you earn and have savings and you're probably okay. Can I piggybacky real quick on that? Yeah. That's it's such a bad fallacy. Look, when you have people chasing trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars, that's what's happening with what you're saying. Oh, if 8 billion people chase 21 million, then bad things are going to happen. No, if 8 billion people chase 350 trillion and then 500 trillion and then one quadrillion, that's when bad things happen because, see, that system is designed to extract value from the people,

whereas Bitcoin drives value back into the economy. You were talking about being convinced to spend your savings versus just being forced to spend or invest. That's the real thing here. Being a producer that has to convince somebody that they want something based on the quality and the use of what that object that they're producing can build. Versus right now, it's just like made in China dollar store shit, right? I mean, that's really what it is. So you prove your own point by making that comment, which is when we flip and we reverse this to an equity-based system that can't be artificially expanded, more value will be driven back into the economy, not extracted from it.

Yeah, absolutely. Again, it just, yeah, when you're trying to, past the hot potato, you make much worse economic decisions for yourself and your family. So, all right, we're going to do a rotation. Actually, CJ, I'm going to keep it with you. And again, Luke, thank you for the fantastic topic. But we're going to jump to CJ. And I'm just going to, again, cue you up our last time round. Why are you bullish? Take it away. All right. How can you not be bullish? Here's why I'm bullish. Number one, Bitcoin is commoditized energy in the form of money. What do I mean by that? Historically, to sell energy,

you need demand and you need infrastructure, right? Infrastructure is very expensive. And that's why you see places like El Salvador where they can produce cheap energy. Why didn't they harness that volcano energy before? Well, because they didn't have the demand. They didn't have the infrastructure and demand to sell it. Now, anybody in the world can harness electricity, commoditize that electricity in the form of money through Bitcoin. And then what's the limitation? What's the limitation to that? There is no limitation. You're freeing yourself from the bank. You don't need a loan from the bank to figure out how you're going to get money. You can literally capture electricity and turn it into money and sell it back to the marketplace. So that's the first reason I'm bullish, because a lot of

people say, well, Bitcoin's not backed by anything. Bitcoin, there's no intrinsic value. I disagree completely. Bitcoin's backed by its cost of production. As a miner, I know that it costs right now for me. Now, I'm a smaller operation and I'm paying a little bit higher price per kilowatt per hour. But for me, it costs around $18,000 to produce a Bitcoin. So if I can produce one for 18 and sell it back to the market for 23, I'm pretty happy with that. But there's no way in the world I can produce a Bitcoin for 30,000 and sell back for 23. I'm going to go out of business.

That's producer economics. This is business 101. You can't produce something and then sell it for less than it costs you to produce. So that cost of production creates a fair value for Bitcoin. That's not to say that Bitcoin has to trade at that fair value. It's just to say for people who are producing Bitcoin, we need to pay attention to that fair value because when that price goes below fair value, we've got to be managing our treasury in the right way or else we're going to go out of business.

And also, when Bitcoin is trading at a premium to that fair value because of the added demand, we need to know that we need to capture that profit so that we can properly survive into the future and produce that hash rate. So those producer economics that are behind Bitcoin and support Bitcoin and the fair value of Bitcoin, that's the first reason why I'm bullish. The second reason why I'm bullish is because what I said earlier, we are watching Bitcoin transform from digital gold to digital collateral. And the gold market is a $12 trillion store of value market. But the collateral market is a multi-hundred trillion dollar marketplace. I'm talking about government debt in the form of treasuries, notes, bills, bonds, the whole deal.

All of those things right now back our entire system. And it's a debt-based backing. Bitcoin is the equity-based backing. But here's the kicker. It's in the internet economy. Okay? So in the internet economy, what happens is there's no group of people to tell you the price of money. If people, if a government or somebody tries to tell me the price of eggs or chicken or bacon,

we would say, what are you talking about? Let the free market discover the price. It's a supply demand price equilibrium. You're not going to tell me what the price is. Well, why is it okay for them to tell us the price of money? Everywhere in the world, they try to tell you the price of money, except in the internet economy. In the internet economy, we have free market interest rates because of Bitcoin. Now, nothing can compete with Bitcoin.

I'm Bitcoin maxi. If something says they're trying to compete with Bitcoin as hard money and as the reserve asset of the internet economy, you really just don't know what you're talking about. You know, the Ethereum people, shit-coiners, they don't know what they're talking about. However, when you talk about decentralized finance and you talk about protocols that open up Bitcoin to new levels of finance, such as being the collateral, so you can borrow against your Bitcoin. You can use Bitcoin to make borrowing against a different asset less risky or to lower the APY. Bitcoin is a financial instrument, and it's a free financial instrument in the Internet economy

because there's free market interest rates. If the supply of money is high and the demand for loans is low, well, then the interest rates are going to go down. But when the supply of money is low and the demand is high, the interest rates are going to go up. It's the only economy in the world. And by the way, it's an aggregate economy. The United States, China, Russia, Europe, they can't compete with the internet economy because it's an aggregate of all peoples. So we have one free market in this world and it's in the internet economy. And the internet economy has one reserve asset.

And that asset is Bitcoin and nothing will ever be able to compete with it. because the Bitcoin network is a quantum computer. Here people talk about quantum computers all the time. Bitcoin is a quantum computer. Why? Because there is no one entity or even team of entities that can create enough hash power to attack Bitcoin. It's beyond the point of return.

And that secures the network. And it's that security that we want to apply to our transactions, right? We want to be able to borrow and know that we're not going to have that money taken back from us. We're going to be able to repay a loan and know that it's secured. That transaction finally that's secured by Bitcoin. network, along with those free market interest rates, makes Bitcoin the apex predator of all assets. And that's the real reason that money is flowing into this industry. Yeah, there's a lot of people learning about it. Maybe they put in one or two percent. But I believe for the people I talk to,

some people who have $100 million plus net worth, the real question is, you know what? I've kept my money in treasuries for the longest time. But now I'm starting to see with inflation going the way it is, I can't protect my purchasing power. Yeah, there's no credit risk. And I know for a fact, the government can print that money and pay it to me. But when I get that money, I don't know what I'm going to be able to buy. You know, someone who bought a bond, a two-year note in 2020. And they thought they said, oh, you know, I'm going to buy a million dollars worth of this two-year note. It's going to yield 1%, 2%. And that's great because when I buy my house in 2022, it's going to, it's like I get my free, what I have to pay the real estate agent is for free. I don't have to pay.

for their their shit anymore. I don't have to pay their commissions and stuff because interest on this bond is going to pay it. Well, that's wrong because that person had a million dollars in 2020 turns around to buy that house in 2022 and it's $1.3 million. So that was not storing your value. That was not a successful smart move to make. These treasury bonds and notes and bills are not a successful way to store your value through time. Bitcoin, look, pre-2020, Bitcoin was around $7,000 in 2020 and through over those years, they expanded the currency supply by 40%. Bitcoin's price is up 300%. So yeah, it went to 70 and came back down to 23 or wherever we're at right now. But it was at 7,000 before they started printing all the money. So all these people say Bitcoin is not a

successful inflation hedge. Well, hold on. Let's do some math because I'm up 300% since they turned on the printers. And your treasury bond is yielding negative rates because, I mean, if you don't know already, I don't trust the government CPI. The government CPI is not accurate. Real CPI is probably 13%. I think it's safe to say just double it to give you the answer. A lot of comments would agree with that. Even Peter Schiff, who hates Bitcoin, would agree with that point. Real CPI is so if you're getting 5% and the real inflation is 13%, you're negative 8%. You're losing 8% of purchasing power year every year. You're going to buy 8% smaller house year every year, even though you're saving up. So I think some bigger players within the system who have really not paid that much attention because they have a lot of cash flow.

They have old businesses. They're starting to pay attention because they're starting to realize, well, wait a second. We planned this out 10 years ago and we were supposed to build three factories. But now I can only build one factory. What the hell is going on? I thought we had this planned out and this was going to take care of itself and we would be expanding by this point. So what's happening is the realization of the dilution of the collateral, which is the treasuries through all. the money printing is turning people to Bitcoin. And Bitcoin is the answer because it's secured by

its energy. And yeah, it can trade at big premiums. I mean, it was at 70,000. It was only cost to me around 16,000 to produce a Bitcoin. Since then, the network has grown quite a bit. And because the network grew, difficulty has gone up. As difficulty goes up, the cost of production goes up, so it squeezes our margins. But just that alone, that Bitcoin is alive. It has its own mechanism for price discovery. Nobody can tell you. it's just supply demand. There's producer economics playing a role in securing that value. And then that the role that it's playing is not in the traditional system where I have to trust Citibank in Wells Fargo to custody my Bitcoin. I can be my own bank in a free market internet

economy where interest rates are determined by supply and demand and free market principles. Free market economics and incentives are going to win over these centrally planned systems. And it's just a matter of time. And to me, the time is very short because the dollar is at the end of its life cycle. And we know that because of inflation. I used to tell people about inflation in 2015, 2016, and they would look at me sideways. Right. And then they finally came back in 2021.

And they were like, hey, man, what you were saying about you. You were wrong, but you were right because you were just way before your time. And now, you know, people listen. They're like, oh, yeah, I know what inflation is. I see what's going on here. I understand what you're saying. Well, that's the sign because we've been waiting for this sign. A lot of people in this marketplace have been waiting for uncontrollable inflation.

We've been waiting for the Fed to have to be forced to use the tools that they have to fight inflation. Well, now they're finally being forced to fight inflation. That's the sign that we're at the end of the currency life cycle. So if you guys are out there and you're on the edge, you need to learn about this stuff. You need to protect your wealth by putting it into Bitcoin and understanding what you own. And then having the conviction to hold through these ups and downs because you know where the road ends. Damn, dude. you should have seen the comment section blowing up.

My favorite one, when is CJK going to get passionate? I'm sorry, guys. I'm a very passionate person. I love Bitcoin because Bitcoin is freedom money. And Bitcoin cares about us. Bitcoin, you know, sometimes I lay in, you see that meme. We're like, does Bitcoin think about me? No, it doesn't think about you.

But the way it was designed was so genius that it truly does protect your time and energy. And there's nothing else in the world that does that. And that's where my passion comes from. Yeah. There's one thing I want to hone in on that you were mentioning people saying, oh, Bitcoin is not a good inflation hedge. And you were talking about, well, before they started printing the money. And I mean, it's a great inflation hedge if you already have some before the money printing begins.

Like that's kind of the key. Like as those currency units get dumped into the economy and begin, into slosh around, then you'll experience the inflation. And yeah, you're right. Like if you had it before that, you did pretty well. And the same can't be said of sitting in the stock market in a lot of instances, a lot of these, you know, stocks that were were pretty hot during everybody, everybody becoming a TikTok all-star of where to trade. You know, a lot of those things came down far worse than Bitcoin through that dump as people realize that, oh, geez, the Fed has crippled us with inflation is now going to cripple us with the fastest rate increases in God knows how long. The other thing I just wanted to touch on really quickly, and I'll just, it's just a little tidbit you were talking about, well, the network's grown a lot since you were producing Bitcoin at X per coin.

and now it's a little bit different. We actually, we're about four blocks away from the next difficulty adjustment, which should be around 10%, I think. 10%. 10.0.5, it's a horrible day. Oh, terrible day. No, no. It's going to cut my margin.

It's going to squeeze my margins big time. See, miners don't like difficulty adjustments, and we don't like the having either. So you don't really actually even need inflation. Inflation is just a bonus booster. The halving is the catalyst to a new price discovery cycle, because what the halving does is it doubles my cost of production. Imagine if you're building a car for $20,000 and then you turn around to the marketplace and you're selling for $25, $28, $30,000.

That's fantastic. But now, boom, there's a halving. Now it costs you $40,000 to build the car. Are you going to be able to sell it for $25 or $28 or $30? Hell, no, you're not. You're going to have to sell it for more than it costs you to produce it. So if you think you're going to buy your bitcoins from me after I pay double the cost to produce it, I'm not selling you.

I'm not, what am I an idiot? I'm not going to sell you my Bitcoins for less than a cost can to produce it. So the halving, which doubles the cost of production for miners, that drives value into Bitcoin because it doubles the cost of production, which means it increases the fair value of Bitcoin. And that's why shortly after the having, we go into a new price discovery cycle because a new fair value must be discovered based on those supply demand equilibiums. What did you say is your current, quote unquote, cost of production for a Bitcoin right now? Around 18,000 right now.

On 18. I am a little bit smaller and I'm paying a little bit higher of a price per kilowatt hour. So I would say the big boys are probably around 14 to 15. Okay. And then that cost of production effectively doubles next year around this time, somewhere in and around this time within a month or two. Well, not effectively. Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely doubles. There's no avoiding it. You see that meme where it's like the guy standing there. he's all mad, you know, Bitcoin miners during the halving, we're like, oh, this is horrible. This is just, we got to sit down. We got to run the numbers again, boys. We got to figure this out.

Investors, though, they're celebrating. They're like, ooh, all right, yeah, you know. And this next Bitcoin having is so important. And I'll tell you why, because after the halving, Bitcoin will be the least inflated asset in the entire world. It will officially be harder than gold. Where right now we're about the inflation rate of gold and Bitcoin is about the same. The rate will be cut in half.

and Bitcoin will be the hardest asset in the world. This is a really big halving coming up for Bitcoin for it to establish its dominance as the best, hardest money in the world. Yeah. I want to get comments from the other guys here. I'm going to maybe ask JD first, and then we'll go to Luke. But, J.D., did you, was there anything that you honed in on there that you wanted to tap on?

I'm just loving the comments about CJ coming to dinner. And I'm just like, you know, Jay Pleb, if you want to take him to dinner, I want to have him over the next weekend to try an orange pill my family. No, go ahead. I was just going to say, it seems like a whole bunch of people in the comments

would love to have CJ over for an orange-pilling session with their family. So, yeah. Jada, you go ahead. Dish out orange pills, baby. I don't throw money. I throw orange pills. That's what you did.

It must be a lot of fun to go to Vegas with you just yours. like orange pill tick tex shirt. Oh my goodness. I went on a cruise with my wife. I just got back off the Norwegian prima. I orange-pilled people I played craps with. No lot.

That's awesome. Why we were playing craps. It was a great experience. People are open to learning about these things because they know there's a problem. You know, in 2016, in 2016, people would look at me, be like, they'd be like your mom. They'd be like, hey, I got to dry my hair now, you know, so they see it. Now people are like, hey, feed me. baby, feed me.

Tell me what you got because I'm starting to realize this. I'm making more money, but I'm buying less stuff. How's this happening? Yeah. When Luke was saying earlier about the whole, like, everybody feels like how kind of... Can you guys still hear me? I just... Yeah, I got you.

Just jumped to off of my AirPods because they don't last for the extended period of time. But, no, working at a tech company. So I worked at a tech company and my wife worked at a tech company. And like, we used to say one year at a tech company. company is equivalent to seven years in normal life. It's like dog gears. It's just like crazy. So much stuff is coming at you. You're like drinking through a fire hose. And it was crazy during COVID is like that feeling that we had in this tech company of just like all the shit is behind you and you're pushing it uphill was what the whole world was experiencing. And I was like, dang.

Like everybody's like and some of the people just are not ready for that. Like a lot, you know, there's a reason tech companies like, you know, you have to reach a certain bar usually. And I definitely think I snuck into the back door by the way. I don't think I'm. I'm smart enough to be at most of those places. But like there's a reason that they kind of look for a particular, you know, type A or just like random personality because it's, it's rough. Like it's not for everyone. It's also not fun when you're doing it day in and day out. And so I think kind of to what you're saying and just kind of landing the plane quickly outside of, I think somebody needs to make like a super hard gold meme or sorry, Bitcoin meme where it's just like shooting gold because that's literally what I saw every time you said it'd be harder than gold is like just Bitcoin just.

just anyways um yeah no i i don't really have much more than that because i can oh um i've been taking notes for why we're just talking about this um yeah i think just the point that i would love to get back on to for people who might not be bitcoins as the the point cj matter why is it okay for them to tell us the price of money and that i've never heard those words in that sentence before and that literally just stopped me in my tracks in the same way, just a lot of the other things that I've heard when I kind of went through the one-way door, you know, because you're right. It's like, it's a question that's never been positive before. And I think that's the, you know,

one of the reasons why I want to make Bitcoin propaganda and I'm very specifically calling it propaganda. Um, because at the end of the day, that's what all this stuff is. You know, that, you know, Bitcoin propaganda comes from Mr. Clown World, there's a friend of mine. Like, that was his ideas. Like, it has to be propaganda. Because at the end of the day, like, if you're not making propaganda and you're not being truthful about what you're doing. Like, I'm trying to plant seeds about Bitcoin, period, which is exactly what they're trying to not do. And so I just love how articulate you are in all the CD because it's just like the signal is high.

It's so high that I like, you know, probably need a defibrillator. But I love it. Luke, I'll toss it to you as well. Do you want to hone in on anything that CJK was saying? I think everything he was saying is true, and I think the most important thing, the most important idea that he said was about how the people we talked to in 2016 are now open to it. And I think the reason for me that is the most important is because I think human brains, we tend to think of things in a linear fashion.

We assume that the rate of change in the past is the same in the future or vice versa. so we think the future has to act a certain way. So that's how we assume how the past was. But I think most people don't really appreciate exponential curves. One of the things CJ mentioned was inflation, you know, how inflation has gone from 2%, you know, all the way up to 8% at one point. And I think most people, they look at that and they're correct to say,

oh, that's a problem. But they're incorrect in realizing how serious of a problem that is, especially when they understand the reason why. You know, this is not the 1970s. This is a really different reason. we all can feel it. But then also the data shows it's a completely different reason. And also, you know, political theory says this different reason.

But that aside, you know, most people see 2% go to 8% inflation. And I think, oh, that's really bad. Next time, maybe 16%, you know, because, you know, or no, it would go up to 14%. You know, if we went to 6% last time from 2 to 6 or 2 to 8, maybe we'll go up another 6% from 8 to 14. Ooh, that's really bad. That's really scary. It's like, no, the next year is. One second. I'm sorry because it's such a good point that you just made.

Inflation actually did go to an all-time high because if you use the same CPI equation they used in the 70s, it was at an all-time high. So we did have all-time high inflation. But after you add all these equation adjustments and hedonics, that's what produced the lower CPI. So if you just stick with the same math, that's what's great about Bitcoin miners. We're about math. You give me that equation and I plug in all those numbers, we had all-time high inflation. So people are rightly recognizing that this is different than it was before. Sorry to interrupt you, but you're spot on. Yeah, yeah. It's different because you're correct.

The 19-eat's version of CPI actually has been higher this time than the previous time. But also the reason is different. Interest rates are very different. As you well put it with the Treasury market, that's very different. You know, the dynamics of the corporation in the United States are very different than they were in the 70. So it's not just that it was higher using the previous basket of goods, which that's also up for debate. And inherently, you can't have an absolute basket of goods.

But also the reason is different, yes. But regarding I was saying with inflation rate, what most people do is they see that things used to be 2% inflation. Now it's 8% inflation. So they assume, oh, that was a 6% increase from 2 to 8. So that must be next time it's going to go from 8% to 14%. Oh, that's really bad. That's terrible.

But what people don't realize is that that wasn't an increase of 6% from 2, to eight, that was an increase of, what, 400%, you know, 300% or so to go from two to eight. You know, it's like, okay, two times four is eight. What's eight times four? That's 32%. You know, that's not a prediction of what it's going to be next time. We'll make that abundantly clear. But the point, but the point being that is that people are so bad at understanding exponential

trends and people feel stupid. It's like, I don't understand what's happening. It's like, you're not dumb. your brain is trained your entire life to think of the world as a status quo in linear terms. You know, one day is one day, one week is one week. You know, days don't get more exponential or the hours of the days still get more exponential. You know, our entire life is based on linear thinking. And so when we're trying to view global trends or technology or all these exponential things, we have difficulty.

You know, we think inflation will get worse than a linear rate. We think people's trust in the current system will decline at a linear rate. We think people's trust in Bitcoin will increase at a linear rate. Or like you were saying, CJ with gold, you know, like we look at Bitcoin's inflation rate versus golds right now. And, oh, well, Bitcoin will get better in a couple years. And that's true. But in addition to that, people don't realize that the inflation rate of gold only can increase at an exponential rate as technology gets better. You know, there is so much more gold in the oceans than there are currently mine.

There's so much more gold in space than in the ocean. And we don't even have to get to those dramatic lengths. You know, there's already a lot of gold in the earth left. It's like as technology gets better exponentially, the rate of gold dumping on the market also has to go exponentially if gold were to survive as a store of value. And so like we were saying earlier with Bitcoin education and how it's never been easier to learn about Bitcoin

and it will never be this hard again to remember about Bitcoin. I would say the same thing applies with every other exponential trend that gold's inflation rate, more or less, has never been higher, going to be lower again. Or likewise, Bitcoin's inflation rate has never been lower and it's never going to be this high again. Or people's trust, the ratio between people's trust and the don't trust or people's belief in the verification system that is Bitcoin versus the complete trust and fiduciary system, the Federal Reserve and treasuries and, you know, debt-based markets, you know,

that ratio has never been as dramatic as it has now and it's never going to be this small as it it is in the future. And so that's really why I care about it now, because like I was saying before, I do believe there's going to be a day where there will not be enough Bitcoiners or Bitcoin education to educate people. And there's a lot of information right now because the ratio is very good. You know, most people still don't care. Most people think it's dead. Most people think the FTX saying had anything to do with Bitcoin and they're ignoring it. But the reality is we're going to go back to all-time highs in, you know, U.S. political currency units, U-U-U-S dollar, probably sooner than people think, you know, $60,000 or so.

And eventually a day is going to come where it just starts going up or more accurately, the dollar just starts going down. And people realize, wait a second, this whole time it's been fiduciary trust, why to know and teach me? And then it will dawn on people. And the demand for that, the demand for Bitcoin, the demand for Bitcoin information, and the demand to get out of everything else will never go up higher. And what it's not just

linear you're thinking either. It's because here why, they're lying to us too. It's part of that too. And that plays into the trust part you just said. The trust part is not just a realization that, oh, we weren't thinking about this exponentially. It's realizing that we're actually being lied to.

Like for instance, let's just talk about interest rates for a second. Just do like a basic thing I do with my kids. Okay. So two people can create money in the world, governments and banks. So if we raise interest rates and the government issues, debt, which is how they create currency, and they issue it at a higher interest rate,

or were they forced to create more money or less money? More money, right? Okay, now let's think about the banks. And here's where people go wrong. They think about it from the side of the consumer. Listen, everybody wants to borrow money, but it doesn't matter if you walk into the bank and say, I want to borrow money. What matters is what the lender thinks. So we have to think of this from the lender side of thing, not the consumer side of things. When interest rates go up, banks want to lend more. That's why credit is at all-time highs right now. Because as interest rates go up, the risk goes down. And look, the risk might not go down for Johnny who works for minimum wage.

But for the family that owns where Johnny works, they're getting money out the wazoo because interest rates are up and they can get access to that money and they can afford to pay that interest rate. And the bank's happy to lend it because they're lending it at a higher rate. They're more profitable with less risk. So when the Fed sits there and the government tells you, we're going to fight inflation by raising interest rates. Wait a second.

The math doesn't, that's not how you fight inflation. because that's just going to create more inflation. It forces the government to print more money and it incentivizes the banks to expand more credit. They're lying to us too. Everything all at once. Sorry to jump in there. But like what Luke and UCJ are talking about the whole. And I think it's, again, this is me being baby, but like the whole notion, which I think

I first heard from Greg Foss when he was talking about the risk markets, everything all at once. And like at the end of the day, like I haven't again thought of it from the trust. perspective, but when we get into that position, when the trust falls out of the bottom of not just the market, but the entire institution of government, you are only going to have one person you can look at, and that's yourself. And you need to look at, that's why it's so important to build your community around you. You should go out. And if you don't know your neighbors, if you live in an apartment, it's even worse, but like, if you don't know your neighbors who lives above you, below you, next to you, whatever, and you cannot ask them for a cup of sugar, you need to take a long, hard

look in the mirror because when the shit hits the fan, you are not going to have any friends. And it's not because you don't have any friends. It's because everyone else is looking out for themselves in their circle. And if you're not in that circle, it's going to get real hard real quick. Yeah, absolutely. I think and Bitcoiners are beginning to realize this and are beginning to build their own circular economies. I'm on a huge kick with that right now.

I'm so excited because there's people in and around town that, I begin going to the meetups and everything. I have a guy in Southern Alberta that I stalked my freezer with beef from. He's a cattle farmer. I went the other week. I picked up a ton of eggs from a dude who has like 20 chickens. And I'm paying in Bitcoin. And it's a beautiful thing because exactly what you're saying.

I want to, if it's the fan, I want to have the friends that I can reach out to and say, hey, he still got some eggs, got some beef that I could buy from you. I'm happy to pay you in Bitcoin. And that will be the, I'm happy to pay you in Bitcoin part will be what grabs the attention as well, but also the relationships that you establish. So yeah, super, super important there. The other thing I just wanted to tag onto when you're, you know, the whole they're lying to us thing that you were going down. I think the reason that people have such a hard time with understanding a lot of this is because, the results of the actions often lag.

In fact, they always lag, right? You know, when they, when they pump 40% of the monetary base out of the Fed, you know, it's not like inflation happens right away. And then when inflation does hit, all of the, all of the pundits, they don't say, oh, it must have been that 40% of the monetary supply we introduced over the past couple of years. It's no, it's supply chains. And yes, okay, that is part of it, obviously.

But that'll be the only reason or it's Russia. Russia did it. Russia is the reason for the, you know, you know, Putin's inflate or inflation hike or whatever they were saying. They blame you too. It's your fault. You're too successful. You know, you, you, it's our, it's, you're too successful. And it's unbelievable because if you think about it just from like the economic standpoint.

And they're saying, a successful economy, people with spending too much money is what causes inflation instead of creating currency units causing inflation. Well, the fact of the matter is, if prices are going up because there's a lot of demand, producers are going to be very happy because what that's going to allow them to do is make a profit. And they reinvest their profit to increase supply. And that lowers their marginal cost of production. In other words, it costs cheaper per water bottle if you make a million water bottles than if you make 100,000 water bottles. So that marginal cost of production declines with the more supply that you have to produce. So the cure for higher prices is higher prices because higher prices make producers more

profitable, which allows them to expand supply, lower marginal cost of production and then lower the front end facing price. But by selling more units, they end up being even more profitable. So if inflation was actually happening because of the reasons that they're saying that's happening, we would be seeing GDP growth that we've never seen before in this country. But when you when you account for inflation with real GDP, we're negative because inflation is coming from dollar losing value, like Luke said, more better said it's the dollar losing value than the rather than the prices going up. We want to see prices go up. We want to see increased demand. We want to see profitable producers who can lower their marginal cost of production, lower prices

and sell more units. That's a healthy economy. When prices are going up and GDP is going down, you have stagnation like we have today. Hello. I mean, come on. There's, there's no way to get to this point unless the currency is losing its purchasing power. Dan, dude. I, I thoroughly enjoy your rants there. I think as does the entire peanut gallery in the chat. It's great. Gentlemen, I have to start rounding things out here. And so, first of all, great topics all around.

What I like to do at the end of the show is I like to get, just go to each person really quick and just get any final thoughts, something that, you know, anything you didn't get to say or something that you just wanted to reiterate before we go. And then I'll also ask you guys, if you can, throw in a recommendation for people. And that recommendation can be anything. It could be a book, a podcast, a video, an application, a device, a personal experience, really anything that you think would be beneficial to somebody watching or listening to this,

that you think that would be cool for them to check out that might help them in their Bitcoin journey or tangential lines of thought. Whatever it may be, feel free to toss it out. But I'll finish up with final thoughts here. People often have a hard time kind of understanding what's going on in their current situation, unless they've done deep dives into how the system works. It's very easy for people to be convinced of whatever narrative,

the people in charge decide to throw at them. I think that eventually, that, I mean, obviously, in hindsight, it's always 2020. You can always look back and say, oh, geez, there's the reality of this situation. I do wonder if moving forward, Bitcoin helps that getting to the truth helps expedite that process. in that, again, our money is a way of communicating where we're placing our value. And that's been perverted for our entire lifetimes. And so we haven't, all of us haven't really grown up in a world where we've seen an accurate reflection of where people choose to place the fruits of their labor.

And so when you pervert where people are placing their value and actually, actually the values that they exude, you pervert the values that society has. Because if you work your entire life towards one set of values and you pour your money into it and your time and your effort and pouring your time and your effort into those values is then undone by the Fed printing a bunch of money and reallocating it elsewhere, you start to think that maybe your values are worthless and putting all this time and effort. And so many people are putting time and effort towards certain means. and it's all disintegrated in front of our eyes. Maybe our values weren't in tune with reality when really it's the money it wasn't in tune with reality. Nothing was wrong with your values.

And so I hope that on a Bitcoin standard, it helps us whittle down to the truth quicker and we get a society in which the values of the populace are more accurately reflected in everything that we see. And I think that's what we get to with Bitcoin. I'm going to, for my recommendation,

we chatted about it briefly just a moment ago. And it's that dystopian, what if we didn't have Bitcoin vibe? But there's a book called The Mandibles by Lionel Shriver. If you've read it, fantastic. If you haven't, go read it. It is a bit of a downer, but also it's pretty intense, like when you're reading it,

especially like the opening when it's really hitting the fan and, you know, the U.S. is defaulting for the first time, like publicly and overtly defaulting on its debt. All of that is very, very interesting. But if you have read it, you're probably going to want to go, because I know I am, you're going to want to go and listen to Citadel's dispatch because Matt O'Dell, who won't shut up about the mandibles for good reason,

got Lionel Shriver, the author of the mandibles, on Citadel Dispatch today. So I'm going to be listening to that over the weekend, and I recommend you do too. So, with that, I'll round out my thoughts, and I'll pass it over to J.T.

J.D., any final thoughts and recommendations? Take it away. Piggybegging on your thought, place your value in Bitcoin. Kind of my final thought and recommendation is place your value in Bitcoin I think at the end of the day, I have been welcomed with open arms. I literally DM to Bitcoin, like Ben from Penny Lane.

Like through a DM, we were able to get together and then make him that promo video. We've seen his promo video on his thing. And like, you know, just bitcoins are ready to build, ready to do stuff. His wine is fantastic. You know, and I think the value of doing that is the problem we're seeing right now in the Fiat world. And that's like wrapped in the final thought of putting your value in Bitcoiners is my recommendation. Planned obsolescence.

If you don't know that term is look it up, but planned obsolescence is a fiat corporate value. That was coined by Steve Jobs with the iPhone. And that's why you've seen Apple do incremental changes very small. And everybody who's an Android users like, why aren't you doing X, Y, Z? Because it makes money. That's it.

Because if you do small incremental increases, you can continue to make money. You can continue the capital flow. You can continue to make that. move and that's what planned obsolescence does and when you put your value in bitcoins and i learned this from ben pinie lane the long term or excuse me the low time preference uh low is slow and high is fast because i always get messed up if you have a low time preference and you're doing low time preference things you're making a refrigerator that's going to last you for 30

freaking years like it used to go like the g-e fridge we have in our garage right that's a low time low time preference thing to do and low time preference things value quality they value you know the the the craftsman i was watching the you know maddicks um why we're bullish and like i totally agree with him on that i totally agree with the artisan nature of things and we're going to go back to that and because we're going to go back to that if you really want to invest in your future invest in bitcoiners that's my recommendation i love that that's fantastic all right uh luke you're up next final thoughts recommendations take it away. Yeah, I guess my final, I'll wrap them both up in one.

My recommendation would be to take a break, take a break from the noise and just take a little while and step back. We have so much dependency on news and social media and iPhones and the latest political unrest and nationally and internationally. There's crazy culture stuff. going on all sides of the aisle, you know, hear that. There is so much noise going on in the world. There's so much chaos and it feels like it's just getting worse and people don't know where it's coming from, they don't know why it's coming from, and it feels that everything's coming up to a

crescendo and everyone just has an easiness and culturally, politically, religiously, morally, economically and financially. And then, you know, it seems that Bitcoin's a part of that noise and all these things are just so, such brain dreams for people that I feel, and this is why we often call it the matrix, it's because to a certain degree, it's kind of like it kind of is the matrix. What was the matrix? The matrix was a computer program that just sucked your attention and your brain away from the real world. And that's kind of what we have now, where we're all distracted by all this noise that is just coming

out, it feels like it's oozing out of the ground and falling from the sky. And as Jay E said with the fridge, that's what made me want to go on this little explanation here. It's like if, as I said in my podcast of precedent, if you haven't watched it, I encourage you to watch it. But as I said there, if you corrupt the money, you corrupt the incentive structure. Or if you corrupt the incentive structure, you corrupt the society. You know, why do you think that we are only getting more polarized in the United States and across the world? Why do you think that, you know, for the first time since the Cold War, it's like there's legitimate fear of nukes? I mean, you know, this isn't just some fling with North Korea or something like this is a legitimate possibility now of using tactical nukes or or strategic nukes, excuse me.

You know, it's like why is that possibly? Why does it feel like that the left, the political left, is becoming completely unhinged? And why does it feel that the political right is reacting to that in a very boisterous and non-traditional way, you know, or take religion? Why are so many people leaving religion, other people having big revivals? it's like, why is all this happening? You know, if you study the money and you study technology and you force your brain from unplugging from everything, you force your brain to think in exponential terms,

you realize, oh, when the money gets exponentially worse, so when we break the law of conservation of energy and the money supply at an exponential rate, the lies have to get worse at an exponential rate. The controversy has to get worse at an exponential rate. And the people in power are an exponentially less power because the total amount of power that that system has is declining and their own free will within that system is declining

because the incentives, the routes of possibility for the future are becoming less and less numerous as it converge on the sole eventual inevitability, which is death. So I would just encourage people, if you're trying to understand Bitcoin, if you're trying to understand why the world feels so confusing, is just take a moment, it's good for you, unplug and just start thinking and forge your own path with thought because that's the critical

resource that we lack today. It's not the internet. It's not information. It's not, you know, all these other things that we have abundant up. We have more luxury that we ever have before. We have more entertainment than we have ever have before. We have more information than we've ever had before. The critical resource that we're lacking right now is intellect, thought and understanding of what's really going on. And I would just encourage you to unplug and realize that as you begin to understand what's going on, you realize, oh, the reason they don't make fridges like they used to, or the reason the politics feels so strange now, the reason this or that, you know, all the time I talk to people and they say, why can't we just be like the 1960s or the

1970s? That was like, those are the good old days. It's like, the whole reason you've nostalgia for that era is because that was a monetary, that was a completely different monetary era, where there was less corruption in the ledger, and therefore there was less, incentive for corruption. Therefore, the society was less corrupt. The collision course we're on now is that everything has to get worse from here within this paradigm. And eventually, you're going to have to make the choice. Either continue at this paradigm until it crash lands back to Earth as a satellite that's a Nicopa system eventually has to crash back down to Earth, or take some of your time, take some of your brain power, and begin transitioning and crossing

the bridge to the other paradigm. And eventually, once you begin viewing, both paradigms, you realize, oh, Bitcoin isn't a bubble that's skyrocketing exponentially and crashing. The dollar is crashing exponentially and the dollar is making temporary pullbacks against it. And that switch, when that clicks, then you'll sound just as crazy as the rest of us and everyone will wonder why you're in this Bitcoin cult. Love it. That's fantastic. Yeah. It's nice to unplug once in a while and not be inundated with all the noise. And even, even, you know, Twitter and Noster, it's good to like, step away. I'm super guilty of not doing that. But it is nice to like, you know, leave your phone at home, you know, go for a walk, touch grass. Well, snow for me right now. But, you know, nonetheless, get outside. Unplug for a little bit. Great advice. CJ, you are up as our last one. Final thoughts, recommendations. Take it away, man. Absolutely. So the first thing I'm going to say is do not.

let anybody tell you that Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, that it could ever go to zero. Because just like every other commodity in the world, there is a cost to producing Bitcoin. There's a cost to winning that subsidy. And that forms the business process. It's the spark that tells us, okay, this is what I can produce it for, this is what I can sell it for. And as the price goes to premiums and fair value and discounts, use that as your method of understanding, you know, when you're should I use my Bitcoin to buy my family home or to buy my vehicle.

You know, sell your Bitcoins only if you have to at premiums, never at discounts, never at discounts. That is the most stupid thing that anybody can do. My lights are going crazy over here. I'm using TVs as lights. It's unbelievable. But don't let anybody tell you that Bitcoin has no value because it does have a cost of production.

And just like every other commodity, that sets the fair value. Number two, understand that Bitcoin is not just. going to $600,000 a coin because it's going to replace gold as the hardest money in the world and the best store of value known to man. But it's going to go to millions of dollars per coin and eventually you won't even care about the dollars because it's just going to represent purchasing power. And the reason it's going to do that is because it's transforming from digital gold into digital collateral. It is the backbone of the system. And this is where my book recommendation comes in. Read Layered Money by Nick Bahesha or something like that. Look, he's going to

back to the court he knows. Nick Botteia. Laird-R-Gar. The good one. Read that book because what it's going to do, it's going to help you understand that the dollars that you're using, the dollars that you swipe on your credit card, it's all digital already. It's all digital. The amount of cash in the system is negligible. Everything is digital and it's all pinned on treasury debt. We have a debt-based system. Debt is the promise of tomorrow's production. Equity, is the proof of yesterday's hard work. And Bitcoin is equity. And that equity is going to serve as the reserve asset of that free market internet economy. That's where you want to be right now. People are talking about capital rotation into Dubai and into Russia and into the Silk Road. And there's

going to be all this fiat capital rotation. No, no, no, no. The real capital rotation is out of the dead and dying the yacht system and into the free market internet economy. These centrally planned systems are driving everybody off the cliff. Some could even argue that they've planned it that way. And only free market is going to give us the freedom that we want. So a lot of people are doomy and gloomy. I'm not that doomy and gloomy. Yeah, it's going to be a tough transition.

But it's a bright future. It's an abundant future. It's a secure future. It's a truth money future based on Bitcoin as the number one. layer, the bottom layer, the foundational cornerstone of where this new economy and alternative system is being built. And it's still alternative right now, but one day it won't be. So getting it while it's an alternative and people don't understand what we're talking about because that's how you're going to be, listen, we're all going to lose. I always say this. Those of us who lose the

least are going to be the best off because we're forced to use the system. We're forced to have money in the bank. We're forced to have our automatic payments. But the goal is to lose the least. And those of who lose the least are going to be parking the majority of our wealth in Bitcoin because it's the hardest money in the world. Don't be afraid and don't let other people tell you it has no intrinsic value. It's a commodity just like any other commodity in the world. And because of the difficulty adjustment and because of the having, it's the least risky commodity to produce in the entire world. Dude, you've got people selling couches in the comments. Fantastic. That was great. Yeah. I don't think I can tag any.

anything on to that. I'm just going to leave it where it is. Great book recommendation, by the way, Nick Batia, Laird Money, awesome read. And unique, too. I always think like, oh, do I need to read another Bitcoin book? Like, what more can it say? But there's always some tidbits or some different angle that I didn't think of before. And this one is definitely, you know, unique in, in that realm. Absolutely. You know, one more thing. Let me say this, BT sessions, because I got this from that book, too. Bitcoin stores your value right now. Like we said, it's up 300% while they increase the money supply by 40%. But when it becomes the layer zero foundation, that equity will be unlocked because when

it serves as collateral, it's going to produce yield for you. And not this scam coin, shit coin yield where they just create more units like they do fiat and then sell it to you like you're yielding. Yeah, okay, you're not yielding when you're staking. You're just not being diluted. Bitcoin is going to produce earned yield, sustainable earned yield. And when it does, the discounted cash flow valuation of Bitcoin is going to increase the fair value tremendously.

So right now we're talking about fair values based on a static, idle asset. When it becomes collateral and it's unlocked and that value can produce sustainable yield that's earned, watch out. I love it. All right, gentlemen, I'm going to, well, I think that's a perfect spot to wrap. I want to thank you all for coming on. was absolutely fantastic. We got in a good rip here. We're going like two hours, 10 minutes, and that's a good problem to have. So thank you all for being here. Everybody watching,

of course, all of their Twitter handles are down in the show notes. And also I had a recommendation that I should start including people's Noster end pubs. So I may start doing that, but I'm sure you can, you know, whoever, are you guys all on Noster or who's on Noster here? Yeah. Okay, there you go. Yeah, I assumed as much. So you could probably find their end bubs in their Twitter profile. So go look them up there. But from now on, I will include that in the show notes as well. Great recommendation. Gentlemen, I'll finish up by just saying I had a blast. Great conversation. Thank you all for your time. And all of you are welcome back anytime.

Awesome. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks, man. Cheers. All right. Everybody, thank you for being here. What a good rip. Appreciate all your time as well for joining in. Everybody that was in the comments bringing stuff up.

I saw you all there. Thank you so much for staying here. Again, I see archiving Cloud World, J. Pleb, Intergalactic, Flat Smack, Bitcoin Shooter, none your business, everybody that's been, Narwhal Tocos, everybody that's been in the chat. Thank you so much. And, of course, number one fan, David. Love you, man. I hope you keep coming back.

Anyways, before we round out here, of course, I'll just say, of course, don't forget to like, subscribe, share. All those things help a ton getting this content in front of more eyeballs. You want to help the show on another way. You can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors down below. That was hoddle, hoddle, coin kite, nunchuck, and start nine. Also, if you're headed to Miami in May, we're going to be hitting up the Bitcoin, 22, 23, conference. This is my fourth time attending. I went to the original one in 2019. Cancelled in 2020, but I went to 21 and 22. Yeah. So fourth time there, it's insane. It's huge.

It's the biggest event, uh, Bitcoin event on the planet. But anyways, 150 plus speakers, 15,000 attendees, 2,000 companies. It's going to be a blast. May 18th through 20th in Miami Beach, Florida. Uh, you can get tickets, B.tc slash conference. You can use code BTC sessions for 10% off. They do increase the price of tickets the sooner the event is coming. So as we get closer, they'll be going up. So if you are going, grab them sooner rather than later. And if you're going, I'm doing my cold card workshop. I did one of these at Pacific Bitcoin. I've done one in Vancouver while I'm bringing it to Miami. It's a four hour deep dive on the cold card mark for if you've been wanting to learn about the cold card, then come to this. There's only a

few tickets left. But basically, we're going to go from beginner, just basics, getting through the gate, setting it up, learning how to do air-gapped transactions, learning how to back up and restore. And then we're going to dive into some of the deeper topics like pass phrases and BIP-85 sub-accounts and all these really cool features that many people are very unfamiliar with and maybe haven't even touched on. You'll walk out of that four-hour workshop being a cold card expert. You'll be well above and beyond any Pleb out there. So yeah, come check it out. If you want to check that out, just head to my website,

BTCSessions.ca. It's over on the right-hand side under in-person workshops. You can grab tickets there. You can also get my one-on-ones if you need a little bit of handholding if the free tutorials on YouTube aren't enough. Anyways, guys, thank you so much for watching. If you really liked what you saw, you can always drop me a Bitcoin tip at my strike page. You don't need strike to use it.

Just head to strike. dot me slash BTC sessions. Type in any amount you want. Hit the tip button. You'll be greeted with a lightning invoice or if you prefer tap the arrow to the right. You'll see a regular Bitcoin QR code. With that, I am out.

Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. See you guys next time for your daily session. We have BTC sessions. Bitcoin is after your money. You can't stop it. Get yourself some Bitcoin and hold it yourself. Pure to peer exchange.

You know, people are going to organically come to it and gravitate towards it, especially in the world we're living in now. It's incredible. It's a great tool, and I can't wait to see it proliferate everywhere.