BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH_ Meeting Of The Mega Bulls - Pysh, Booth, Mallers, Saylor, HODL, Vortex, TINA, ODELL, Svetski ep166

Episode Date: April 17, 2021

Preston Pysh, Jeff Booth, Michael Saylor, Jack Mallers, American HODL, Matt Odell, Aleks Svetski. What else can I say? Might be the most bullish episode to date, and I love the descent into belligerent rambling. It was poetic. ENJOY. 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $25 free https://bit.ly/397rlLN Get Wasabi wallet for Bitcoin privacy https://wasabiwallet.io/ Cobo Vault: secure your Bitcoin! https://bit.ly/2GgMFlH BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 LIGHTNING tips: https://tippin.me/@BTCsessions Audio-only version of the show: https://anchor.fm/btcsessions Telegram channel: https://t.me/btc_sessions

Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What is going on, everybody? Welcome, welcome. And thank you to all of the plebs here that made this show possible. This is going to be an absolute fucking banger. It's going to be crazy. I've got the dream lineup that I never thought would happen. And it's thanks to the Cyber Hornets making this happen.

So very happy to have you guys all here for an. episode of Why Are We Bullish? You guys already know the guest list, but we've got American Honol. We've got Preston Pish. We've got Jeff Booth. We've got Michael Saylor and we've got Jack Mallors all here to riff on why we're feeling bullish. It's very exciting.

Now, as always, this is live. Anything can happen. Quick disclaimer from my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The fucking thing sucks. Again, thank you guys. We're going to get rolling. As always, I am Ben with the BTC sessions and this is your daily session. Now before we bring our guests in, we're just going to take a quick look at where we are in the market. Right now, we're sitting at around 61,760 some odd dollars per coin. A single US dollar will pick you up 1,6190.6.9. Sats stack them while you can. 88.97% of all Bitcoin have been mined.

And in terms of fees, the MEP pool is pretty busy right now. 175 sats per byte will get you into the next block. Even if you wait an hour, 136 sats per byte. So, you know, if it doesn't need to get done, maybe hold back and save yourself some sats. Of course, before we bring it everybody, a quick shout out to sponsors of the show, lend. You can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different services. For me personally, it has tended to be if I needed dollars and I didn't want to sell my Bitcoin because that's taxable. And I'm worried about having a buyback and at a higher price.

I can use them to get dollars into my bank account. And when I pay that back, I get back the same number of stats. That's what's important to me. Up next, of course, we have the Kobo Vault, one of my regularly used hardware wallets. I love this thing. Fully air-gapped, meaning you never plug it into anything internet connected. It is all done offline via QR code. And I've been using this a lot for multi-sig alongside a cold card.

Love the thing. I've got a tutorial on it. Check it out. Links below. Of course, I am living on Bitcoin. So one of the ways I help myself do that is bit refill. You can pick up any gift card that you can imagine there. And you actually do earn SaaSback in the process.

You can use main chain and lightning network for cheap and quick transactions. And finally, if you're backing up your wallet, Please, please do be careful. I've heard some horror stories this year. Paper sometimes is just not good enough. You want to get it on steel. So the bill foddle over at PrivacyPros.io helps save you from things like fire, water damage, or just accidentally throwing the damn thing out.

And with that, I'm rushing through these because I really want to get everybody in here. So I'm going to kill this screen. And I'm going to start bringing people in. I'm going to bring in Mr. American Hoddle, Preston Pish, Jeff Booth, Michael Sailor, and Jack Mallors. Guys, holy crap, everybody's here. The chat's going wild. This is crazy.

Thank you all for being here. I'm just going to quickly go down the line, let you guys introduce yourselves as if you need to. But regardless, Hoddle, can you start us off? Who are you? Hi, I'm American Hoddle, a well-known Twitter personality, and I'd just like to say, hello, Jessica. Off to a good start.

Off to a good start. Preston, let everybody know who you are. Bitcoinser, podcaster. Just thrilled to be here. You're too, you're way, way, way too humble there, my friend. But let's move on to Mr. Jack Malice. Dude, can you let people know who you are? Yeah.

Yo, my name's Jack. Bitcoiner as well. I build things probably most known for strike. And this is a rock star panel. And I'm stoked. Thanks for inviting me. And I'm happy to be here. Unbelievable. Let's move on to Mr. Michael Saylor. I'm sure most people watching understand who you are, but let people know who you are if they're living under a rock. I'm the CEO of Micro Strategy. And hello, Jessica.

Where is my leather jacket? It's across the room. I won't grab it right now. And, and Mr. Jeff Booth took my first tweet when I announced that this panel was happening. I said, I said something like, bring your fucking cowboy hats. So I can't remember what I said. But he took it quite literally and actually brought his cowboy hat. Jeff, can you introduce yourself? Thanks. Bitcoiner, entrepreneur, and author.

Awesome. And his book, The Price of Tomorrow on my bookshelf behind me is excellent if you haven't read it. Reddit, please do check it out. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Why Are We Bullish? And this show has a formula. Basically, we go by the three R's. Each one of us gets to give a reason why we're feeling bullish. Then we do a riff with all of us on that reason.

Anybody who wants to comment on it can. And then finally, we rotate to the next person to give their reason. So really, really simple. but I do need to break from tradition here as per the show because the cyber hornets have been up my ass all day. And sorry to put you on the spot, Michael, but what is with this analytics chain analysis shit going on? Can you please enlighten us? And this, just so you know, this is coming from Bitcoin magazine. They said, micro strategy announces exploration of Bitcoin analytics offering as part of our core product suite.

You said, we're just acquiring and holding. This was not well articulated. And then somebody pointed out a specific note. We are also exploring opportunities to apply Bitcoin-related technologies such as blockchain analytics into our software offerings. Mr. Sailor, you have some cyber hornets that are looking to sting that you, might need to answer to, can you enlighten us? Yeah, you know, I saw that this morning, and I wouldn't quite sure why the story was popping up, but I mean, the Bitcoin magazine is a reputable source. And so then I looked and there was

an SEC filing. And so I looked, and then I realized our proxy statement dropped. And a public company generates thousands of pages of filings. And so I thought, well, there must be something of the proxy statement that they were glomming onto. So I swear to you, I read my entire proxy statement and I read like it's like hundreds, hundred pages of every lie that I, then I went and I searched for Bitcoin. And I searched all through it. I couldn't find any reference to Bitcoin analytics.

I just couldn't figure it out. So then I said, well, you know, you know we're not doing it. I mean, we don't have a Bitcoin analytic strategy. So I couldn't really figure that out. And then later on, I think Ellie posted that one sentence from the cover letter of the proxy statement. And, you know, full disclosure. The way this works is like an army of lawyers and marketing people along with the corporate

executives draft this stuff. And that letter was drafted like six months ago or four months ago. And I had, and it probably went through a committee. And I didn't, I probably reviewed it while I was reviewing about 100,000 other things. So I didn't actually know it was in the letter. So I read it. I thought, yeah, that's a little bit, that's going to be misleading. The Hornets aren't going to like that one.

So I went and I post it. It's like, yeah, if I had to say again, I would have said it differently. Bottom line is we're not really doing any blockchain analytics. And I wouldn't want the Hornets to sting me to death. It would be a very unfortunate end. And I know they would end me. So the right way to look at it is like there's one sentence there that I would rewrite if I could. But otherwise, our strategy is we want to buy Bitcoin.

That's the strategy and whole Bitcoin. And the rest is like not happening. So like on it on a scale of What's the what's the good and analytics company? On a scale of The bad one chain analysis all the way down to glass node How evil are you? I don't think we're not evil.

Okay, good. Our you know, our only goal would be To do something that would be good for Bitcoin So we found a way, if I could find a metric that would convince every institutional investor to buy more Bitcoin, then I would publish that. And if we could use our technology to make Bitcoin more secure for every hoddler, then maybe I would do that. But right now, we've been scanning. We don't really see anything that merits commercialization. So you can expect that we'll use our technology as a force of goods should we find an opportunity to do so.

Perfect. I like that answer. But what I will say is any plebs that are watching that don't trust and prefer to verify, if Mr. Saylor happens to become evil, which I'm not expecting, but if it happens, I have a list of easy things that you can do to just protect yourself from on-chain analytics. So you can coin join. You can use non-KYC exchanges like BISC. You can learn about UTXO control. You can utilize things like the Lightning Network. And as long as you understand the trust tradeoffs, you can also utilize something like liquid side chain with confidential transactions.

Now, conveniently, I also posted links to tutorials on all of the above preemptively in the show notes. So if you're curious, you can go and do all of those things right now. But with that said, thank you, Michael, for getting that other way. Let's dive into the real show because this is what everybody's excited for. We're all super bullish. I already know that. Let's just go into it.

I'm going to start us off with the topic and then we'll get rolling. Preston will pull up next. But my reason for being bullish right now, is that I believe that the plebs still have the home field advantage. And the reason for this, I believe, is twofold. One is mindset. And two is actually, to me, ease of entry. And there may be some pushback on this from the panel.

But let's cover the ease of entry first. I think that the plebs are nimble enough. Like they don't have the red tape, right? They don't have to deal with red tape in acquiring Bitcoin. You know, a lot of the plebs watching here have had the, pleasure of front running Michael Saylor for many, many years. But let's put aside the fact that his DCAs destroy our regular stacks. But it's very easy for individuals to get into Bitcoin institutions, a little bit more red tape right now.

But I think where the plebs really pull ahead currently and why it's still a PLEB's game and a PLEB's world is because the rest of the world is not in that mindset. They don't understand what's happening. They're still in a Fiat mindset produced by a Fiat world. You get examples like Keith McCullough. He's trying to time everything. He's talking about Quad 4 previously in Michael's interview, which quickly turned into Quad 4. You have Jim Kramer bragging about dumping half his stack,

selling his funny money for real money just the other day. He's celebrating that. they don't understand the game. The PLEBs do. It's not about dollar accumulation. It's the only number that matters is how many sets are actually being held. So, you know, I see that Bitcoiners are kind of miles ahead in this line of thinking. And some of the high net individual net worth individuals are just getting to this place.

They're just, you know, we see the early inklings of it. but the plebs still have a whole lot of high net worth individuals to front run still. Now, when they do get it, that red tape, I think, will go away. It will become a lot easier for them to get in. But right now, and I'm looking at all the plebs right now, you do have an opportunity to kind of tip the scales, to abandon your fiat slavery and build dynasties on a foundation of immutable code. so please don't fucking waste it.

I'm going to pass it down the line here. If anybody has comments about the idea that this is kind of a unique moment in time for plebs to tip the scales. I think I'm maybe going to start here with Hoddle because he embodies a pleb pretty good. Yeah, I've talked about this before. I think our culture has just pervasive nihilism going on. And, you know, this D-Gen trading, whether it's on Wall Street, Betts and GameStop and AMC or it's Dogecoin or whatever it is is a fundamentally like nihilistic fatalistic position. You're saying, listen, my life is crap and it's going to be crap for the foreseeable

future. So might as well yolo it all in, you know, with a bunch of leverage and maybe I'll get a Lamborghini out of it. Maybe not. It doesn't matter me because my life is already bad, right? Whereas Bitcoin is bedrock. It is rational optimism. It is people building for a hopeful future so that they can have families and a prosperous life and the American dream that we, We were all sold, you know. So like I'm always super bullish when I see people who get that instead of people who are chasing the USD gains. Yeah, I'd agree. Now let's go to the other side of the aisle here.

Michael, you came in last year like a title wave. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on this dynamic of people that are nimble enough as individuals. And I'm talking more percentage of net worth to be able to get it into Bitcoin. and understand the value of doing so. Are you seeing the inklings of, I guess I know you are, but I'll let you speak here. What are you seeing on your end in terms of mindset?

You know, I think it takes, as I said before, like 40 hours before you really fully appreciate everything about Bitcoin. And if you're a genius, you might figure it out in 10 hours. And if you're impatient and you spend one or two hours, you can see it the people like they buy it they sell it they love it and then they sell half of it like and then you get the sense that they probably didn't put in the 40 hours and uh and so i think that um what's bullish from your point to your point right is the plebs that put in the 40 hours

or they put in the time to understand what they're doing have the conviction and they have strong hands and i think there's a lot of people you know I went and I talked to, I don't know how many billion dollar entities when Bitcoin was 10,000 to 20,000. And I said, you know, you guys, you have to buy this. This is the most screaming home run, the best thing I've seen in my entire life. And I proceed to explain in detail over 60 minutes. At the end of 60 minutes, I get to the punchline, which is, you know, you can make a billion dollars here.

And it's the easiest billion dollars you're ever going to make. All you have to do is buy a billion. dollars of Bitcoin and announce to the public, you bought it. That's all you have to do. They've all got $10 billion. Okay? We get to the end of 60 minutes. I'm all revved up.

I'm like, you guys have questions? I can answer more questions. We can go another half an hour if you want because this is important to the world. And I would assume you're going to make a billion dollars. It's important to you. They're like, we have another meeting. We got to go to. Sorry, we got to go.

The meeting ends. They go off. And then occasionally, like I'd find that, you know, obviously some bought it, right? Because it went up. But then I'd hear, yeah, well, we bought a buy, we bought $350 million and then we sold it at $25,000, you know, or we bought it at 15. We sold it at 30 or we sold half of it at 30 or like, yeah, we did this and we, you know, when it got ahead of it got ahead of itself at 37,000. So we took half the position off.

And I'm like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, and the point. And the point is, like, there are people in the world that'll buy 500 million of this stuff, but they still won't put more than two hours into the research. And then, you know, and then they'll dump it after they get a 42%, you know, run up. Do you think that's going to be a prevailing theme, like through the year where companies make crazy gains and then they dump a good chunk of it? I think that it's, the Bitcoin is much more collared now. people, I think it's run up 30%, down 15%, up 40, down 20. It's because these hedge fund and institutional investors,

that they know enough to know that maybe they should buy some, but they don't know enough to know not to sell it, you know? So I think that they're the ones that they buy in because it's a good trading idea, and then they sell it after it runs up 50% or take half off. And they feel really smart about that. I took half. You know, like I took profits. I took half.

I can't remember who said that recently. Yeah. And then it comes down again and they're like, oh, I sold it 40,000, but it hit 30,000. I'll buy back in. And so they're, you know, you could hate on them because they're selling when it's high. But then when it comes, the same people that will sell it as a trading idea up 50, they'll buy back in because I know it's a good idea if it goes down. And so they're stabilizing.

the entire asset for everybody else. And I guess that's good. Right. By the way, if there's no one to sell it, like, like I've been saying since it was 10,000, I'm like, who are these people selling to me? Like, why would anybody sell this to me? I can't believe it.

But, you know, my friend Eric White says, you know, Mike, if there's no one on the other side of the trade, you couldn't have bought it. So we kind of need someone to be a skeptical mercenary when it goes to, 30 so other people that all the people you recruited that you they started stacking when it was 30 they couldn't have stacked if there wasn't some skeptical institution that was selling it when they were coming in and the same is true right now uh yeah i'd agree let's let's toss it to uh preston

president do you have any thoughts on this like the the dynamic between uh the plebs the nimble plebs stacking stats ahead of uh institutions here in a in a a way, it almost seems like, you know, I like the biology comparisons when you look at the white blood cells kind of devouring a parasite. And I kind of see that being analogous to what you've seen play out since the beginning, which is you have a bunch of people who are able to figure it out very quickly. And they've just been biting away at the parasite of Fiat printing and, you know, the basement that's been happening on a global scale. And everyone understands that there's, that There's no end in sight.

In fact, the incentive structure is it's just going to keep on going. And in order to take something like that down, it's going to take an army of people that just continue to figure it out and understand it and do the hard work like Michael's saying and putting in the hours to fully understand and troubleshoot and ask themselves the hard questions in order to arrive at the thing that seems so obvious. When you look at why is it so hard, why is there a cognitive dissidence for people, that are managing a lot of money to not understand this. And I think that the article about the yuppie economy or the yuppies not being able to figure out perfectly, perfectly describes

kind of what's going on and it's trust in the old system and this mindset and this ego that's associated with, well, I'm the reason that I've accomplished this. It's because of my superior knowledge and why I'm so excellent of why I'm in this elevated position of how close of vicinity I am to the printer. So for somebody to be told that that's not why or that's not how the system works and this really inconvenient truth, if you're right about all the things that we're talking about, people don't want to hear that. They don't want to believe it.

They don't want to hear it. It's super inconvenient if you're right. And so they just default back to, well, I, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, been managing money for 30 years. And there's no way that something like that could happen, right? They just default back to that narrative. So it's kind of, it's an interesting dynamic to see play out on such a macro scale. But I fully believe that's kind of what's taken place. I love that. Let's get thoughts from, uh, from Jeff. And then we'll drop down to Jack. Uh, Jeff, what have you noticed in terms of, uh, hurdles that people are trying to get over to get into that

PLEB mindset of it's not dollars, it's sats that we want to accumulate. Oh, Jeff, sorry, you're muted one sec, all on mute. There you go. Thank you. We measure a system from the system we're in. And so that's really hard for people to understand that they measure, most people are measuring that system and all their interactions from that system while trying to understand a different system. And if you just, if you're fair with every single person on this call, including me or just to look at my journey, I didn't start with all my net worth. I started with a little bit, and I started to understand the system is going to change. The existing system that I live in is going to completely unwind, and there's a new

system. The power is the individual, that gives all the power to the individual. and it's such a revelation, it's such a revolution that it's inevitable. It's going to happen. But if you think about all of the people that are coming on, not just hedge funds and everything else, it's more about the individual. Because the hedge funds are sitting on top of a whole bunch of people's cash.

And this gives those people individual power to be able to make this decision. And building on what Michael said, if everybody knew what we knew, there wouldn't be an asymmetric bet in Bitcoin anymore. It would already be priced. So that knowledge, so I kind of think I gave this out to everybody in my family, extended family, in Christmas, hard wallet, money on a hard wallet, a whole bunch of people, because they wouldn't listen to me.

And I wanted them to understand it. But now once they had it, now they're doing the research. Now they're now like and you get more and more bullish. You start to understand you start to do more work on it. And you bring other people on. So so it's just cracking that code. Give somebody $100 on it and they'll follow it. They'll start learning.

I do love that. And I do. I have to say that there's been people in my family in the past number of years that have kind of come on board. And it almost gave me a sigh of relief seeing that my family are somewhat insulated from this terrible current. And I'm on the Canadian shekel up here, the Canadian moose shekel. So that's, you know, even worse than the U.S. dollar. It's not the reserve. So to see them insulate themselves at least a little bit with some Bitcoin has been very, very nice.

But let's jump down to Jack. the the true family man, the Bitcoin family man here. What are your thoughts? I mean, you very much are a member of the Pleb gang and you've, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and from that foundation, you've built some crazy shit that further benefits PLEBs. So I don't know, what are your thoughts on the dynamics here as different types of people come into this market?

I've said this as of recent. and I think inspired by a lot of Michael's comments over the last six months. An underappreciated property of Bitcoin is that it's a network and it's an open network. And open networks have by defaults built in economies of scale and network effects that are far superior. And Michael's drawn parallels before to like the iOS App Store and what that was able to develop and inspire and the network effects that were inherent on a system that can build on top of each other, and it spreads like wildfire. And Bitcoin is an open system.

It's open source money. And the people I was hanging out with El Salvador that make $300 a month, we're seeing the same percent gains that Michael Saylor, billionaire man, sitting here with us, was getting. It's the same thing. It's accessible to all seven and a half billion people on the planet. And so I think why that matters to PLEBs and the topic we're discussing is in an open system with those network effects. the fact that I get to go on TV and watch Black Rock say, oh, it's kind of interesting. You know, we're going to wait on it and see.

Well, as PLEBs, we don't really give a fuck. And nor do we have to because it's open source software and we can download it and we can get access to this asset class and see the same gains as billionaires that we've watched on TV with little to no effort. We download open source clients. There's an exchange in every single country. There's liquidity in every single currency. And that's a property of the system that non-PLEBs are.

not associated with or familiar with or used to and that hey coin base you mind delaying your IPO just a little bit because we're going to buy at valuation of 50 billion and we're going to hike this thing to a hundred billion and do a media run and then we're going to dump on everybody else that's not how this money works you guys take your time figuring it out i figured this out 10 years ago and i have full access to buy this thing as much as i want when i want it's open 24-7 365 and I don't think traditional finance is accustomed to that idea is that it's an open network and open networks don't care and we certainly don't care either and so I think it's a fascinating property of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a self-fulfilling prophecy in that sense it's a snowball rolling down a hill

in that sense it's a vicious cycle that leaves behind anyone that doesn't get into it. And yeah, greatly benefits whether you're a pleb but not a pleb, it greatly benefits early adopters. It was designed that way. It was built that way. with intention. And so I think people greatly, greatly, greatly underappreciate that property of the system, an open monetary network that has these network effects and economies of scale that I don't think we've ever seen before. We've seen open networks and what they can do.

An open monetary network is tremendously powerful and new and fascinating and is greatly advantageous to PLEPS because I don't give a fuck with BlackRock things. If you're not, if you're watching this and you're not breaking your thumb, smash buying. I don't know what you are doing with your life. That's the kind of rant that I like to hear from Jack. All of, dude, all of your interviews on anything I've seen you on. I love how you just like hijack the questions and you're like, listen, this is what the fuck I have to say. It's so fantastic. We're going to keep rolling here. We've got 2,300 people watching live. So smash that like button. Give this a share. Let's keep going. I got to get to Preston Pish.

And we're going to get, now that we've kind of wrapped this topic, we're going to get his reason for being bullish. Preston, I hand it to you. So I could talk about the fact that you have Ray Dalio that just had his big announcement saying that he thinks it's going to be, you know, everyone should have Bitcoin in their portfolio at this point. But that doesn't even really excite me anymore because I think the bigger thing that is the story, at least for me, looking at it from a finance lens. So everyone's got their different lenses that they're looking at. at this from. And the thing that I can't wrap my head around and that I keep asking on Twitter and I'm trying to find some of the smartest people to really kind of pick through this. But when I'm looking at the derivatives market, that is now way more mature than it was in the 2017. At the end of 2017, you had a cash settled CME futures market that was stood up right there

kind of at the last minute for the last four year cycle. And now you have a physical. You have a physically settled, which is a enormous difference. You have a physically settled derivatives market for options and futures that is in place all over the world. We're talking billions upon billions of dollars that people are taking Bitcoin. They're locking it up in escrow. They're writing contracts because they're trying to capture a spread. And a spread that just keeps getting bigger. So when you're thinking about people that don't even want to own Bitcoin, they're just wanting to capture this risk-free spread. And they're saying, my God, I can do 40% risk-free and not even hold Bitcoin at the end of the day. But in order to put that trade on in a neutral kind of way, I have to lock up coins in order to capture it.

How the hell do you put that back in the box, right? Because when you want to step into this market and step into it in a neutral way to capture this spread that just keeps getting bigger. And the more volatility just attracts more like honey to or flies to to honey or cyber hornets to honey. What happens is you just have more people that want to come in and write these contracts and they want to write it in longer duration. so they can capture bigger spreads so that they walk away from the trade net neutral. That clause more and more Bitcoin off the market. I don't know how it stops. Maybe it does.

Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it reverses. I don't know. But I do know one thing. I find it extremely bullish. And then I also see a bullish over on the borrowing and lending side. And I'm not trying to promote the people go out and borrow and lend and do all these fancy tricks, these fancy financial tricks. Because really kind of all you got to do is just buy Bitcoin and hold it.

But all these things that are happening in the ancillaries, all the network effects that Jack is talking about, all this building and this construction from an engineering standpoint that's happening right now, okay, is nuts. It's absolutely nuts. And I just don't know how you put the genie back in the bottle. So when Michael says things like all your models are destroyed, it keeps going up. forever. Laura. There's a reason,

Laura, there's a reason that people are saying these things, and it's not because it's wishful thinking. It's because there's mathematics behind the stuff that's happening. And at the root of all of it is this proof of work protocol that's just systematically clawing fiat currency into it and eating it nonstop. That's why I'm bullish. Would this be,

is this the contango slash sat squeeze that I see? all over Twitter. Is this your reference? Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought. Now, I mean, the beautiful thing there is, I mean, play stupid games win stupid prizes, right? And you have a bunch of guys here that, from what I understand, are not playing the stupid games. Like, you know, you've got Sailor,

just dollar cost averaging us all into oblivion. You've got Jagg building amazing shit and, you know, building stuff for the plebs. You've got Hoddle selling mini vans or selling whatever vehicle and riding ET bikes to stack more sets. And you've got Jeff

Booth over here advising people of the perils of not embracing Bitcoin. We bring Jeff for the sex appeal. I mean, it's it's true. It's the cowboy. Yeah, it's tap hat tipping intensifies. I know, I'll let Jeff, do you want to tag on anything to that? Do you

any thoughts on what Preston said? Yeah, I've talked to with Preston a bunch about this, but there's 130 odd trillion dollars of negative real interest bonds today. So on your best day, you're going to lose money. The best day. There is no way out of the existing system. It is just math now. And so remember, that's the risk-free rate that every other economic calculation

is built on top of. And people call Bitcoin a risk. Yes, it's an asymmetric bet, but it's actually, it might be the greatest risk trade in the world, right? It's the greatest bet in the world because all of the risk is on the other side of the coin, but people misinterpret risk because they've always lived in that system. And so it's a misinterpretation of risk. And with Michael, Jack, everybody on the,

on this call, but a bunch of built businesses on understanding what everybody, when everybody else sees something different and you go the other way and create something with crazy risk, a lot of people think entrepreneurs are great risk takers. They're not. They're asymmetric debt takers. They understand where there's actually more risk in than the existing system and they go into, they go somewhere else. So that's what's actually happening with Bitcoin. And so all of, as, as Preston says, this is going to, that's going to accelerate. And as that money flows into something that's better protecting value, it accelerates. I love it. Michael, I'm going to let you follow this up if you want to talk. I know, I know that you're not playing these stupid games,

But do you have any thoughts on this kind of locking up of capital and Bitcoin and like the wells running dry? Well, I think the magic of Bitcoin to Jack's point is it's an open monetary network. And one aspect of the open network is an open banking network where anybody can create their own bank and strike is a bank, right? Just like Square is a bank, just like PayPal is a bank, just like Coinbase is a bank and finance is a bank. and every single application that handles Bitcoin is a bank. And it's a question of market dynamic and incredible innovation. And I'm excited about that because that part of the network, the banking side is going to go to 8 billion people over time.

I'm convinced to that, everybody with a device. But Preston's referring to another aspect, which is I think we, on one hand, we've got an open global banking system coming and hopefully on lightning, right, crossing all borders, you know, at speed of light. The other side of it is a open, a global money market, an open global money market. I think Preston's describing, you could call it just global money markets, fair, equitable, competitive money markets. And in the U.S., you can't easily, sell the future and buy the spot and capture the contango.

But in Singapore you can or Hong Kong you can. So do you go to FTX or go to Binance or something? And if you have the right pool of capital, you can short the future, you know, buy the present, lock up the Bitcoin, capture 40% risk free. And what's fascinating about that from my point of view is that if Bitcoin was a U.S. only or it was captured by a single regulator in a single jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what jurisdiction, any jurisdiction. That regulator would then start to regulate.

But because it's global and it crosses every jurisdiction, then if there's one country on earth, and if there's one entrepreneur, if one dude goes to Singapore and creates one website that actually puts the right future and the right derivative and the and maybe creates a yield curve, you know, one, three, five, seven, nine year yield curve. If one person does it, then somebody on earth with capital can find their way to that one person. And you could bring a billion dollars of capital or a hundred billion dollars of capital or a trillion dollars of capital. So it's kind of like you got a dam. If there's a crack in the dam, all the water is flowing out of the dam.

It only takes like one conduit. So the beauty of Bitcoin is that a hoddler in Alabama can buy Bitcoin once and not touch it for 27 years. And if some entrepreneur in Singapore sets up a website and they pioneer a set of derivatives, and if they screw it up and they go bankrupt, it doesn't hurt the hoddler. And when the 97th entrepreneur creates the 42nd website and they get it just right, then some capitalists will figure that out and they will find a way to create an entity to move $100 billion to close that arbitrage spread.

But to do that, they're going to have to lock up the Bitcoin and they'll bid it up. And the price of Bitcoin will go up by a factor of 100. And the hoddler might wake up from the Rick Van Winkle slumber 27 years later and find out that their Bitcoin went up by a factor of 1,000 because somebody they don't know

in a place they've never heard of did something rational with a huge amount of capital because it's a global money market, but everybody's got the same asset. And so that makes the chain as strong as its strongest link instead of as strong as its weakest link. And it's the opposite of fragile. And a fragile system, I have a centralized entity. And if anybody shuts down my arbitrage or anybody shuts down my functionality anywhere on the planet, I can't offer it everywhere else.

That's the fragility of centralized systems. But in a decentralized open system, if anybody on the planet can do something intelligent for the human race, everybody else in the system benefits. And there's a lot of risk to trade, and there's a lot of risk to offer the thing. And someone might set it up and fail, but the next person will succeed.

So the bottom line is CZ and Binance, or Sam Bankman-Fried, they're sitting doing stuff that we can't do in New York City that's benefiting people in New York City and people are not in New York City. And nobody can stop it. And we don't even have to understand it. And you don't have to play the game.

I agree with you. Like, do I want to juggle razor blades? I don't want to engage and complicated stuff to get a 18% yield that's taxable that results in 12% after tax and risk losing everything. And maybe I've got a regulatory issue. And maybe I couldn't do it.

I can't do it on my exchanges anyway. But I could just sit and do nothing and benefit from it. And I, you know, I think Preston's put his finger on it. I'm going to cheer on these people that are juggling these razor blades. Like I highly encourage you to keep doing it. It's great for everybody. It's competitive money market, right? I just like a competitive banking market is if Jack can create a better bank than Bank of America,

he wins. I wrote the other day for the first time in history, the free market has come to money. That's right. And this is the best part is because it's immediately settled and you're dealing with stable coins and getting this immediate clearance, people who are accustomed to traditional finance are looking at these antics and they're saying 50x leverage, that's insane. This is all going to blow up. No, it's not because it's traded 24-7, right, immediately settled.

And if you're on the wrong side of the trade or you're too leveraged, you blow up. And the person who's actually on the other side of the trade is safe and sound because we're dealing with things that settle immediately. Jack's building it, right? He can send you. He can stream you a hundredth of a penny or whatever it is to whatever currency you want to receive it in. and it settles immediately. So when you're setting up derivative exchanges and your traditional Wall Streeters

aren't accustomed to what that means in an over-collateralized environment, it's two different like economies that are being constructed side by side. They're incongruent with each other. And if you're doing business the old way in a fractional reserved way that's under-collateralized, you're going to have your bell rung so fast

that you just can't even comprehend it. Right. And I'm here for it. And I'm here for it. Let's let Jack elaborate on that a little bit. Because some people watching may not fully understand what Jack is built here. But I'll let you take it away, man. Yeah, there's a lot of topics. I have a lot of thoughts. The first in relation to what Preston's talking about, you're talking about a money that's a natively digital and physical.

and it lives within a network that achieves all the properties of existing monetary networks. It defines identity. It defines payment standards for sending, payment standards for receiving. There's no sense of credit within this network. There's no sense of counterparty risk within this network. All of that is solved by math and cryptography. Oh, by the way, you can engineer more features on top of it. So betting against the existing feature set or the existing usage of the network is betting against humanity and human life itself

because you're effectively proxying a bet against engineering, which would be the most nonsensical, assinine, stupid thing I've ever heard in my entire life. And so what's happening within the Bitcoin community is Satoshi laid a framework in an initial design to cement the monetary policy and a lot of characteristics that represent the best form of money of all time. And then as engineers, we get to just hack on top of it. And the recent development that Preston is referencing is that we've added near instant cash finality and extremely cheap or practically free cash finality to an asset class and to a physical digital commodity that is inherently global and operates on a network that operates 24-7-365.

And so if you think of that, I don't know the fuck if you like Bitcoin, if you think that the color is weird or you don't like how people act on Twitter, if you just live within those for that framework of the properties that that money has, it's very obvious that it's a monumental, advancement for money as a technology and that no money has been able to carry those properties and characteristics. It's inherently global, 365, 24-7. It lives within a distributed network. There's no central point of failure. There's no sense of credit. There's no counterparty risk. It has the sufficient liquidity in any currency you could ever dream of. And it's in an open system. So everyone, to Michael's point, in an open system, new network participants are additive, even competitors. That's just by

definition. That's not exclusive to Bitcoin. That's just how networks work. In closed systems, new participants next to you are subtractive. If someone's using Venmo, that means they're not using Cash app. That is subtractive. That participant is subtractive. In an open system, the fact that someone else spins up a lightning service or Bitcoin service is additive. You're natively interoperable in an open system. And so all of those things is, I mean, it's fascinating. We're making monumental advancements. and money as a technology. This is probably the largest, you know,

outsize impact of any group of people can collectively make on society. And it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. I literally every time you talk, I just pull up the banner that says preach. I thoroughly enjoy your rants. Let's hoddle.

I know I left you last. I'm out. Everybody's bitching it. Okay. Yep. I've got to leave. I'm so sorry, guys. And I'm sorry to interrupt.

This is amazing. trust me, I wish I could stay. That's okay. It's painful for me to leave right now. He forewarned me and don't worry. I have somebody that will be jumping in on Preston's behalf in just a second. But Preston, thank you for being here. I'm going to get Haudill's thoughts and then I'll bring in our.

Such an honor to be with all you guys. Good to see you, buddy. All right. So Hottle, anything you want to add on to Preston's topic? Can I do? Oh, Hottle, you're cutting. So, fuck you, Greg. You suck.

Anyway, if you're in traditional finance and you have the nice home and the Hamptons and the trophy wife and all the trappings and you are underperforming Bitcoin, you need to explain that. Explain that to your investors. Why are you underperforming Tahini's restaurant? Why are you underperforming Bong Man 420 on Twitter? Why? And why do you deserve all the lavish trappings at our society? You know, these are trophies for winners, and you are losing the fucking game. You don't deserve any of it.

And all these crazy animals in the chat are coming to take it from you. I think our next guest is going to have something to add on there. I feel like he's only going to further emboldened you. Matt O'Dell, welcome. How you doing? How you doing, man? Welcome, welcome. I saw you there.

You guys are fucking killing it in here. I was like that, bro. Who the fuck am I going to add in for Preston? Well, Odell will keep us in check, I guess. So welcome, dude. I don't know if you were, I mean, obviously you were listening. Do you have anything to add on to Preston's topic of satsquees? I'm sure, all caps.

Yeah, I mean, I think we're experiencing one right now. I think our boy, Michael over there, is basically inducing it in all of us through his intense FOMO's FOMO situation he's put us in. I would add to the people in here, I respect all of you

motherfuckers. I'm curious, like, where you think price-wise we're going to be at the end of this year. Oh.

You know, 500K. But wait, wait, like within this year, like not, that's not like in December 31st. December 31st,

2021, 2021. I'm going to say 500. Microstrategy has like 140,000 Bitcoin at this point. Things are really heating up. Where is Bitcoin? Where is Bitcoin at this point? You know what?

I don't, in a long enough time frame, Laura, it is indeed going up forever. But I don't think we're past cycles. I'm going to break from Michael's assumption. Oh, I don't know if that's fully your assumption. I know that in general you think it's going up forever. But I do think we do see those big corrections still. The reason I say that is because fucking Doge is through the roof. There's still morons like Jim Kramer celebrating selling half a stack.

There's still so much irrationality, which hasn't even begun. Paris Hilton just dropped an NFT. Like this, it's, it's 2017 with like a line of Coke is what's happening right now. And I think that we do see cycles, but I think that less and less people give a shit about the cycles because they're thinking longer than two months ahead. So I don't know. Like if Michael, if you want to reply to that, do you think that the cycles are are diminished or done or I don't know. What do you think? I don't think the cycles are extreme as they were before.

March of 2020. I think if you look at Bitcoin daily chart, if you look at the chart every single day since March of 2020, you see this pattern of serpentine growth where we advance by 30%, come back 15, advance 40, come back 20. And I almost see some of the volatility coming out. So I think that the institutions,

they're going to have a damping effect on the upside. You're probably not going to get a parabolic 10x like over a month or two months, but they're going to have a damper on the downside. You're not going to get these crashes either. You're going to have speed, you know, guardrails on the other side. And otherwise, I think the primary driver is just going to be the wall of institutional money coming here.

But maybe we could just segue to that. Why am I bullish? I'm bullish. Do it. Do it. I can't give you the praise my lawyers are watching. I get in trouble. So I can't give you a price, bad.

I apologize. I have no lawyers watching. I try to figure out to talk in all caps. This is what I think. I disagree with caps. You should just do lowercase. Oh, really? Lowercase now?

Okay. What I, well, what I do think by the end of the year, I think that we're certainly going to have ETFs in the market, and that'll be a big thing. And I think we're going to see,

all the major banks offer Bitcoin as a fun. You saw Morgan Stanley did it, but I think it's reasonable that you'll see Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Citig Group, you know, etc. Goldman Sachs, Bank of America. I would think that the top four, top five banks by the end of the year will be offering Bitcoin funds. And you've already seen about 12 notable influence.

over the past three months flip to be they went from being anti or skeptical Bitcoin to acknowledging that it's around to stay. So there's a, if Morgan Stanley had 18,000 people out there talking about the fund, you multiply that by five, but I think you have 100 to 250,000 or more of these advisors for these banks started to talk about it. And there's going to be a gradual spinning up process that will be good long term for the stability of the asset. Awesome.

So, Michael, just to get you on the record here, above or below 500K, the end of the year. He can't even answer. It's going, it's going up,

Matt. It's going up forever. Forever, Michael. It's going to go up and then come down and then go up and come down. But generally, it's going to be moving in the upward direction. So I want to, I was going to get your thoughts and I was going to move on to the next reason for being bullish here too. But I want to bring a little bit of a surprise into the mix here. this is a gentleman that very much contributed to my lack of shit-coinery.

He very much pointed me in the right direction. He helped me along in my early journey of Bitcoin. He was putting out content like none other, and he was like a voice of reason through the shit-cornery of the days of old. and I hope that a number of you on the stage will know and have seen his shows previously. He recently, well, not recently, over the last couple of years, he's gradually gone dark and he's gone on to greener pastures, though he is still an avid bitconer. But that's what you can do when you are a bitciner.

So I would like to welcome into the show, Vortex. So Vortex, those of you that watched early, on dude welcome uh happy to have you here you messaged me and and said that you maybe like to jump in for a little bit uh any any plebs that have been watching this that are are have been around dude welcome uh first of all man let me just shout out everybody in this chat uh everybody has been keeping a bitcoin just keep because of the people in this chat the people the price keeps pumping that's what it really is uh so i just have to shout out to everybody here uh i mean michael jack huddle i mean everybody here guys

Odell, of course, just everybody here, like, boot, like everybody, I just want to say huge shout and just thank you so, so much for keeping my Bitcoin price going up and going up and going up higher and higher. I just can't thank you guys enough for that. But really, look, it's been a crazy, crazy time. This is, you know, Bitcoin is now passed to be the sixth largest currency on the planet passing up the British pound. We have Bitcoin rising to a trillion dollar market cap faster than anything else.

I mean, faster than Google, faster than Microsoft, faster than anybody. It still has the highest sharp ratio. out there. I mean, virtually everyone who was ever said anything bad about Bitcoin in the press has now rescinded that and backtracked and said something good about it. You know, we've come a long way from purchasing eighths of medical marijuana for two and a half Bitcoins on Silk Road in 2012 to where we are now, I have to say. It's been an absolute epic journey to watch this go, to see people like Michael come in here, to see the community grow, to see the Bitcoin price rise. again, everyone here is really the reason why I'm bullish.

And look, again, as everybody has heard this phrase saying over and over again, Bitcoin is open, borderless, decentralized, censorship resistant, and controlled by no central authority. And that is why Bitcoin is winning and will win and continue to win. And it will not stop winning for the next thousand plus years. I've been missing your show, dude. The return of vortex. Come on.

Beautiful. I, this is, yeah, this is something else. Dude, how you been? I've been good. I've been good. I've been enjoying Bitcoin retirement, starting my own, starting my own thing, doing my own stuff outside of Bitcoin. It's been pretty fun.

But of course, I can never fully leave Bitcoin. So I've been paying attention for the most part as much as I can to everything. I don't understand the laser eyes. What does you understand? You're a Bitcoin boomer. That's why. You're the boomer. And, bro.

It was after my time. So I'm not quite sure. But look, the things that Jack are built is building. I mean, every time I look around, Jack's got a new announcement with the lighting network. I just, I don't understand how he does that and still sleeps. But he doesn't sleep. I did. Yeah.

I had to come in. I just heard this. This was the place for Bitcoin megabools. And so I had to come on and say hi. Awesome. Well, I'm glad you're here. We're going to keep this shit rolling. And since we're just busy boosting Jack up, I'm going to let Jack drop his reason for being bullish.

So take it, man. What's up? What's in your mind? You know what? I got to admit, I was a little and still am a little confused on how this show works because Bitcoin is designed to pump forever. It's part of the, yeah, Matt. Yeah. That's a Matt O'Dell quote.

And so if you understand Bitcoin, you're inherently bullish because you understand it. So I don't know if I need to give a particular reason to be quite honest. It's whatever the fuck has you jazzed at the moment. And that can include what you're building. Like if you want to just drop a CNBC style rant on on fuck everybody and fuck the system, you can go do that right now all you want. Whatever you think, man.

Yeah, no, I'm not going to show what I'm building. Why am I bullish Bitcoin? I think the beauty of Bitcoin lives within its simplicity, in that we were able to engineer collectively as a community software that can execute on what's been pretty well known as the properties and characteristics of money that would be able to retain and store value and appreciate against shittier assets, shittier collectibles, shittier nation-state issued currencies. and it's the design of the system.

And if you can create a monetary asset that has known issuance, known monetary policy, fixed in supply, no reliance on any central authority, cannot be co-opted by emotional human beings, in theory, it's going to pump forever measured against particular shitty pieces of paper. and piggybacking off what Michael said and why he's bullish with the institutional wall of capital, I'm just going to overlay some very simple logic to why that's happening. And so when you think about the United States is in debt and everyone's in debt, though, and that's just kind of a function and an output of the system that's been accruing and have been built over the last God knows how long. usually there are two options when you're in debt typically if you're just like a normal pleb one you pay it back like a good man like a citizen like an honest man and the other is you default on it usually is the united states going to pay back the debt they're in no it's not an option um is the united states going to default on it are they going to call black rock and say oh you know all those government bonds you guys have been buying and all the money sorry sorry, I kind of fucked it up. I gamble it. I put it all on red at the casino and I'm defaulting on the loan. That's not an option either. And so you'd probably be perplexed and be like, huh, what the fuck are they going to do with this debt? Except they have a cheat code where they have a third option. They can just print more of the money. And then instead of becoming the lender of last resort, they're the buyer of last resort. And what you're experiencing today is unprecedented macro environment where assets,

inflation is scorchingly high. The only thing that's going as parabolic as Bitcoin is asset inflation, and that's because Bitcoin is a proxied measurement and an index on asset inflation, probably the most accurate one. And so what's happening is you've got a world that's in debt that cannot pay it back, cannot default on it, and has no choice but to pump Bitcoin. They have no choice. And whether they know it or not, they have to print more dollars and those dollars have to flood into harder assets, whether that's real estate, whether that's pressure matters, whether that's Bitcoin. But Bitcoin is designed to accrue against this exact macro environment.

For those that have been around for a decade, this is how we built this fucking thing. Houses don't have every four years. You know, like Chicago real estate is not having every four years. In the year 2141, there's not, it's not going to be mathematically impossible for me to buy the fucking penthouse with a woman's closet in it and build another floor on top of this building. It might be though. In 2141 it would be n uh, not a n't if chen griffin waives 250 million dollars in someone's face they're going to go build that it is mathematically impossible to mint another bitcoin that exceeds 21 million

real estate doesn't have every fucking four years. Gold issuance is totally outside of our control if engineering gets good enough to michael's point we're going to print the fuck. We're going to go mine the fuck out of gold if the incentives are there. And so, no, you're living in a world where, and we all knew this was coming. The only way out is to print your way out and inflate assets around you. And Bitcoin was designed to be the hardest of those assets and to appreciate against what is an absolute mess until it collapses. And so why am I bullish?

I don't know. I read the white paper. I remember sitting in the kitchen with my dad when I was 18 years old. and he explained it to me. I'm like, okay, so we just are going to as a family buy a lot of this thing

and just be rich as fuck and watch everything else collapse. Got it. Understood. Bullish. Bullish. That's my life until I die. And that's why I'm bullish.

I love it. And to your point on housing, like there was just an article the other day. I'm in Canada here. And the average price of a house in Canada is now right in around three quarters of a million dollars. The average price of a house in Canada.

It's fucking insane. Who like what average person has that money to put even a down payment at like 5% on a house like that? Mostly nobody. It's people that are are using it as a hedge against what they know is shitty currency. But I digress. I'm going to pass this given what your topic was. I think Michael Saylor considering you've based your entire treasury strategy on this. you might have a few words to say on what Jack just detailed.

Well, I guess based on macroeconomics, we should all be more bullish that there's remarkable consensus amongst every government on earth and every politician on earth that interest rates should stay low and monetary support policy should stay loose. And I think we're starting to see over the past month indications of, clear inflation, right? We saw inflation in the commodities for housing. We're just starting to get the year over year stats for housing over the past eight weeks. I saw 11% up. I saw another stat that average house was up 15% in the U.S. I wonder what the housing prices are at in Canada. I saw another stat that said they're up 18%. And then I, you know, I, it's 30% here.

You guys have the Canadian pesos fuck, man. Yeah, it's actually the Canadian moose shekel is what the correct term is. Oh, my God. So, I mean, the conventional macroeconomic wisdom has been we're going to wait for CPI inflation before we agree there's any inflation. But I think that over the last 12 months, we've won over a lot of the macro hedge funds and the gold bugs. And we're going to win over the rest of the gold bugs. and, you know, Paul Tudor Jones and Stanley Drucker and Bill Miller and now Ray Dalio and the like. I think we're winning them over to the point of view that monetary inflation trumps consumer

inflation. And I also think that mainstream media that has been saying there is no inflation in the past two weeks or three weeks, I'm sensing a change in the narrative across mainstream newspapers and television that they're acknowledging that. It looks like there's some inflation, even amongst the most conservative indexes. And that's probably going to put the inflation issue on the forefront of everybody's mind and all the conventional investors that have been waiting for signs of inflation before they do something. Maybe this next six months, I think maybe we start to see them looking for their quote unquote inflation hedge and they come to life. I love it.

Let's let's the chat is shouting at me to toss it to Jeff. So Jeff, do you have any add-ons here? Yeah. So when you talk about this housing is for instance, and if you go back to before this recent time with staggering amount of stimulus, remember over the last 20 years, there was $185 trillion of extra stimulus globally. That stimulus is why houses go up.

Right. So the only question you have to ask is, is there going to be another $185 trillion over the next 10 years? And if you realize that the market has to, if you understand the real macro, they exist to kind of build on what some of the others have said. We live in an inflationary system that there is no way out. If you let it fail, the counterpart party risk falls all the way down to the sand, and there is no money backing it. So every bank collapses, every institution, every government collapses. So you cannot let deflation happen. But we live in a technological driven world where we get more for less because of technology. So those two forces are fighting against each other.

So no matter what happens from now on, the existing system cannot get out of it, and it has to keep printing no matter what. Because the minute it stops, everything unwinds. So that's what the existing system looks like. And so it's kind of it, when we talk about price of Bitcoin and pumping a Bitcoin, I could give a fuck. Like, because when, because in general, Bitcoin will go up against every other asset class forever. But it's, but you're measuring in a fiat currency when you're talking about price of Bitcoin

and kind of reinforcing houses will come down against Bitcoin. everything will come down again. It's Bitcoin forever because that's the natural technology brings prices lower. And the only reason why prices are going higher is because the system is manipulating prices to go higher forever. If that manipulation were to stop, you would see the truth. So you now go up, but it's not just it's not just the U.S., it's every single country in the same boat trying to drive the drive the same thing. So the real risk, the tail risk is what that causes to humanity, right? Because you're picking the pockets of most of the people and you're giving it to other people, giving it to

the rich. And it's easy to turn governments when you do that. So you live in a system today that is not a free market system. And it needs to control. It needs to print more, manipulate, corruption kind of breeds on that. And that system will get worse. It'll keep getting worse. Bitcoin is the antithesis to that system. It is the truth. And if you measure in Bitcoin, you'll see that truth evolve more and more and everything.

I'm going to put Hoddle on the spot to follow up really quick because he's actively pouring. Go. Shit, I fucking forgot what we were talking about because I was making my trouble with it. That's exactly the response I was hoping for. Whatever Jeff said is right, because Jeff is fucking smart. Yeah, it's a downward spiral, right? It just, there's no other way out that is viable,

especially with when it comes to politicians, like you're not going to come in and be like, yeah, we're going to do austerity. Build on that. And that's what actually people are starting to see in Bitcoin. And that's actually what's bringing in the big. big money. When you actually start digging into this, what you realize is the existing system has no way out. And so what they're telling you through socialism, through anything else,

no matter which actor in the existing system, they are telling you that the only way the existing system works is by complete destruction of the free market. It's the only way that it works. It concentrates all power eventually on an axis toward board's the existing system. And Bitcoin is the office of that system. It puts the power in individuals and entrepreneurs and a free and a free market. That's what the fight is about. O'Dell, how does this play out? They full control versus zero control. What wins? So I'm just going to go for it. Sailor. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I respect the fuck out of you.

Why are you concerned that you have 90,000 Bitcoin in a custodian? Like, does micro strategy, should micro strategy hold their own Bitcoin? Is this something that micro strategies is considering? How do you think about the risks involved with having someone else hold that Bitcoin for you? You know, when we started thinking about buying it, we had a choice. I mean, we could have acquired a lot of Bitcoin through a fund. then we would have been locked into a custodian forever. But we decided to buy the underlying naked asset so that we would have control over the custodian.

And right now, my view is you want to own Bitcoin. And for most people, most corporations and individuals, my advice would be buy as much Bitcoin as you can. buy it, if you're not in the position to self-custody it immediately, buy it through an agent or some avenue where you have the option to self-custody in the future when the time comes. There could be a time when micro-strategy will sell custody, and we have the option to do it. As a, I answer this in two ways. I mean, as a publicly traded company, I have all sorts of compliance, and charter and corporate governance issues and accounting issues that I have to work through

in order to properly assure all constituencies that we manage the corporation's assets properly. And that doesn't really preclude switching custodians, splitting custodians, or self-custodying. But in the first 12 months of a public company doing this, clearly we're walking before we're going to run. And I think that the only way that you're going to be comfortable with Bitcoin is to have the option to move it to any custodian in the world or to self-custody at yourself at all points in time. So always have the optionality. I think the way this thing ends with regard to the inflation is the economies are going to inflate and they're going to do that until they can't. Right now they don't they're not paying their bills with taxation. They're paying their bills with inflation.

Weak currencies, weak economies are going to collapse. Some countries will lose their currency privileges. They're just going to go away, you know, the Venezuela's of the world. And the strongest countries will, they will spread their currencies. And then at some point, I'm an optimist. I believe that the United States and Europe will and the Western world will embrace Bitcoin because it's great technology that's going to be worth hundreds of trillions of dollars to the human race.

And once they realize that it's great technology, it's good for America, it's good for American technology, it'll be good for the dollar, it'll be bad for the weakest currencies. Then at some point, they will realize they can't keep expanding the supply of all the monies. They'll slow it down. They'll move with moderation and the government will start to pay its bills with taxation. There'll be political maneuvering. Who should pay the tax? Will it be corporations?

Will it be an income tax? Will it be a capital gains tax? Will there be some other contribution? The world will restructure itself rationally. But in a world where half of the money is Bitcoin, it'll be some kind of peaceful, negotiation with all of the entities involved in order to build a better a better world based upon a better technology nobody expects that we'll keep inflating the currency at 20% a year forever except if the country is is Venezuela and they do it we know how that'll end so i'm expecting

that in the western world they'll embrace technology they will they will eventually change like even Jerome Powell in his interview, he says, we can't keep doing what we're doing forever, but the current amount of debt we can sustain. And in the future, something will have to change. Like, I think all the politicians know, something will have to change in the future. I believe, Matt, I like the idea that micro strategy could take custody of its own, of its own Bitcoin, when and if it needs to. it won't happen this year but you know life is long and and what I've said before is

is you know you can't trust any custodian so maybe you have to move from custodian a to custodian B maybe you're in you know if your custodian is a certain state and they change the laws you need to move to a different state maybe it's a certain country and they change the laws you need to move a different country maybe you'll decide that uh that there's a multi-significant or arrangement that you trust. And I think the fact that there could be a billion people with their own custody and the fact that everybody has the ability to take custody of their property is the one thing that creates the or keeps the integrity of the network sound.

And I think it's the one thing that gives me hope. And at the end of the day, the reason that the politicians in the Western world will negotiate in a peaceful fashion to come. come up with an arrangement is going to be because the companies that have the Bitcoin will have the option to move the Bitcoin to a different country or to move a different custodian. And the point that I will make in my debate with Mr. G. Estra next week is that the difference between having a billion dollars of gold and a billion dollars of Bitcoin is if you have a billion of gold and I drop a bomb on your building and I kill everybody, I can dig through the rubble

and take the gold, the gold will still be there. If I burn your house down, the gold will still be there. I can shoot you and take the gold. But if you have a billion in Bitcoin and is protected by multi-sig passwords and you kill everybody, you're not getting to Bitcoin. And so I think the Bitcoin lends itself to peaceful resolution in a rational fashion with consequences. And I think that certain other types.

of wealth. They're like land, gold, physical, tangible wealth. They lend themselves to just seizing it at the barrel of a gun with force. And I think you'll see that play out. You even see it playing out right now outside the U.S., right? Where a country says, we don't want you to buy Bitcoin anymore. They might be able to stop you from buying it or selling it, but they can't stop you from owning it. And they can't take it away from you. And so I think that that's a great thing. thing for Bitcoin and I don't think you have to there are some companies that that couldn't buy the underlying Bitcoin but I encourage everybody that can to buy the Bitcoin and be in a position to take custody of their keys or to take custody

of their keys and it just depends on the entity. Hey Michael if this is you walking I can't imagine you running you said you wanted to walk before he ran. He's gaining speed maybe what we can do to help them gain speed actually is I feel like this is a good topic for for Vortex to jump in because from what I recall we did have discussions or you've had discussions on your show about things like executive order 6102 you know confiscation of people's gold things like that and yes

with a as Michael was saying and with a multi-six setup where you retain the majority of the keys then that is outside the realm of worry it's possible to ascertain how much you're holding but it's not possible to compensate

them as long as you retain the majority of keys with something like unchained but if it's just straight in a custodian, you could have that snap, hey, this is the deal. Tough shit. You can't remove from this custodian. So I don't know, like, Vortex, what's your take on, on, is this going to be a peaceful

revolution or is there going to be a lot more pushback than we think? Yeah, so we've definitely talked about this a lot on the show back in the days. For those that don't know, I did run a show, a YouTube channel show from the year 2015 to 2020 through the end of 2019 there. And I was on Twitter pretty much, I was on a coin desk comment way back in the day in 2012 for a couple years and then went on Twitter and was tweeting about Bitcoin for pretty much every single day for like five plus five, six, seven years straight. So we've definitely talked about this a lot on the show. And really, I think it, I think that people don't quite understand that this is the end days. This is revelations. However, it's not going to,

you know, be the end of the world. When, when people, when, when, when, when people, when, when, the good part when the good uh positive side actually wins i mean because this is revelations this is the two largest financial entities on this planet that could ever be uh fighting out for fighting for their lives here and uh one as one has a freaking you know a lot one has some weighted gloves and one is about to get owned all right so uh bitcoin is definitely going to be coming in uh with the weighted gloves and i think people don't quite see yet that anything compared to bitcoin is literally we're talking about beads plastic beads versus digit versus actual hard, solid goal. That is the difference between Bitcoin and everything else. And people also don't

realize yet that Bitcoin is digital, but it's not non-physical. You can still put it in a, put the keys inside of physical objects. And so that's another big, big thing. But really, you know, people are talking about NFTs and, you know, some kind of digital real estate and things like that. But look, Bitcoin is the most valuable digital real estate on the planet. And it will be the most valuable digital real estate for the next thousand years to come. So anybody talking about, you know, trying to do the NFTs are going to, you know, become huge and everything like that. Of course, they maybe will, but let's not forget like where this all started. This all started with Bitcoin.

The very first smart contract was on Bitcoin. So that is something also to take away. But when it comes to these two systems playing out, I definitely have been on record multiple times saying that this is going to play out for the next decade or two. This is going to play out for decades. The US dollar isn't going to just die tomorrow. Like that's going to go. They can, I don't think people realize they can print the debt to $100 trillion plus

dollars. You know, they can, they can go beyond that even. Now, can they go forever, of course not. But they can go, they can kick that can down the road a long time. And so that is why, you know, we have, that's why I say this will play out for decades because Bitcoin, we love it a lot, but it's still tiny. It is still early days. It's still early days. People don't, people don't realize, but it is still very early days for Bitcoin. And so this is going to play out for decades. It's not, you know, they're going to try to throw all of their, their different tasks and their different things at it, you know, at Bitcoin at their different place. They have some place and their playbook still,

left that they can do, as Michael was talking about earlier. But there's, they're basically blanks. Like, there, there's really nothing that they can actually shoot at Bitcoin and have it actually penetrated in any single way. So what's going to happen is that the old system is going to keep printing money. It's going to keep stealing money from people every second of every day. And Bitcoin is going to keep on thriving. And it's going to be like a heartbeat, keep pumping out those transactions every 10 minutes. And we're going to see what wins. But if you put these two systems up against each other, it's, it's pretty clear to me and has been clear to me, for many, many years, who is actually going to win.

It just the thing is it's win. That's what it's about is it's the timing. And Michael has played it pretty well, jumping right in at the bull market, you know, but you can jump in at any time and still be profitable. Like literally every single top in Bitcoin gets overridden every single time. It doesn't matter. So people talking about, you know, all of this money, you know, into Bitcoin and things like that and all these billionaires and stuff.

But it's for the regular people as well. as long as you dollar cost average, it doesn't matter if you put $100 or a billion dollars. You're going to be a part of this new system and this system will continue to thrive and not just, you know, not just survive, but thrive over this next decade. So put the two systems together. They're going to, they're going to compete and they're going to fight. But I don't think there's going to be any type of world war or craziness over there. They just, they just, at the end of the day, people don't actually want to see a war.

It's bad for business. It's not, it's not going to happen. It's going to, there's going to be cold wars, you know, and, you know, cyber fights and things like that. at the end of the day, Bitcoin is going to be still strong with its million, million, million cyber hornets, continuously protecting it, continuously updating the code. And there's just really nothing that a whole lot of, just nothing that anybody can do about it. Whether you like or hate Bitcoin, it's not going away. I will echo the sentiments of our chat here, miss my vortex rants.

Yeah. Yeah, go ahead, dude. I have a we at strike, I really deploy a mental framework on how we think about things that I think is additive to Michael's thoughts and how he's thinking about like nation states potentially competing and that you can just up and move yourself if the United States gets a little too aggressive and how they're going to regulate you. At strike, we think of Bitcoin as the world's first open monetary network, which I've said before on the show and the best monetary network. But what's interesting about an open system and an open monetary network is things like how PayPal won. PayPal was first to market. And PayPal can win on competitive pricing

because of how big they are. They can live within the moat that they've built. And in closed systems, competition and winners win for various different reasons. In an open system, winners are ones with the best experience and the best brand. Right. If you walk in to a coffee shop and there's one singular open interoperable QR code and you can scan it with millions of apps. You can scan it with Coinbase. You can scan it with Cash app. You can scan it with the wallet, open source wallet that your little cousin's nephew's dad built in his free time. That's background color is yellow and it makes cool noises when you scan the QR code. The winners, there'll be many, will be the best experience and the best brand. It'll be the ones that are free

that give you rewards, that care about UX, that overinvest and customer support and the ones that your favorite basketball player is using and that your president is using, those are the winners. And that's how we think about internally about product and we optimize the company for the best experience and the best brand in the world's first open monetary network. Now, why I think that this is extensible to what Michael is talking about is that's a mental framework to deploy within Bitcoin generally. And I think nation states will compete aggressively in that same sense. The United States wants to come and bully me and overtax me. Tell me I can't operate my company here. Say they're going to

compensate my shit? Well, I'm going to leave. And who's offering me the best experience in building the best Bitcoin brand? There's plenty of beautiful countries in this world. And the first country that says, hey, you know what, Bitcoiners, we think that you are embarking on, you know, arguably the best generation of human life, the best quality of life humanity has ever seen. And we don't want to do any capital gains tax on you. You can spin up whatever you want here. You don't need a money transmission license. You can custody yourself here. You can custody through us. No cap gains. That experience is going to be directly competitive to the United States. And if Joe Biden's going to knock on my door and try and bully me, I'm getting the fuck out of here. And what's great about

Bitcoin is I don't have to take on any form of counterparty risk. No one is a threat to me outside of myself. And that's a beautiful thing. And that's a beautiful system to live within. And so in the same sense that at strike for a consumer product, we optimize for the best experience and we compete on experience because there's going to be thousands and thousands of ways in an open system. There's going to be thousands of new ones each day. That's the same thing on how nation states are going to have to begin to develop legal frameworks, taxation frameworks, how they think about custody, because if you get too aggressive in some beautiful place, it's on the coast of the ocean, is going to let me build

the big house and not tax me, we're all leaving. We're all leaving. And in an open system, you know, these closed networks and the way these people traditionally aggressively think about taking advantage of first to market and the existing network effects that they're built upon, it doesn't exist in this game. It does not exist. You have no leverage against me. You better treat me fairly. And the best experience is going to win. And that applies to consumer products, that applies to countries, that applies to regulatory frameworks, that applies to everything. It's an open system. It's fair game. We're starting from scratch. And that's how we think about things that strike. But I think that's how nation states and regulators will think about things as well. I love it. It beckons to kind of the what's the book I'm thinking of. God, sovereign individual. The Bible. Yeah, the Bible. The jurisdiction shopping. Also, I just picked up nomad capitalist, which is like, go where you're treated best and jurisdiction shopping, all of that. I think it's true.

I think in a global world such as this, there's going to be pushed back initially, but eventually it's going to be pandering. It's going to be, please come here. And I think, sorry, go ahead, Jeff. Build on what Jack's saying. So you have an existing system that is trying to make prices go up at all costs. I'm going to keep printing money to make prices go up. What would any technology company do?

What is Jack's company supposed to do to give more value to users? That's what you use technology for. So that's driving prices down. And as you take out labor to do that job, if you push prices up against that, you break society. So the wars and everything else that we say it's not a worry, that is a tail risk because that's what's happening in the world today, and it's getting more and more fragile all the time while you're doing that

against the natural laws of a free market and technology. That's what's happening. And Bitcoin is the antidote to that. And it enables the free market. And the abundance that comes from allowing innovation into a free market broadly to society is staggering. We can't even imagine what that looks like because we live in this corrupt system. I think it's also important to understand too and to remember what happened back in World War II where they made dollars out. In Germany, they made dollars illegal.

But what happened? Every single officer was stuffing their pockets with dollars. So you have to understand that's happening to like every single person who's a quote unquote against Bitcoin right now in the public is stacking in behind their scenes. I'm sure Michael has a lot more knowledge than we knew about about people in the upper echelons. But I'm telling you right now they are all stacking no matter what they say. So yes, we could have a potential tailwind of some type of physical war. But it's it will be short lived because everybody will already have Bitcoin. Hey, Michael. I love it.

I got to ask a question real quick. I know you get out of here soonish. And so check it out. Here's the deal. You have said before that your mission right now is to put Bitcoin on the world's balance sheet. I happen to have the contact info for a senior vice president at a Fortune 10 global, who's already had their first orange pill session.

And senior management was super receptive to the idea of Bitcoin. And the Bitcoin who gave them the presentation reached out to me. to ask you if you'd be receptive to batting cleanup. Sure. Yeah, just DM me. I'll end well set up a meeting. Happy to do it. I love it.

It's not my first rodeo. I like these things. Let's ask you. I know Michael is short on time. Just for everybody watching, here's what I'm going to do because I have people messaging me that are like, I want to join this stream.

I'm going to keep shit rolling. And if we have, have some transients that come in and out as we already have, that's fine. I'm, I've got, I've got this and I've got a bottle to top it up with. So I'm game, if you game, you are game. There's 2,400 plebs sitting in the fucking live stream watching right now. So Michael, I know you're short on time. I'm sorry I've already kept you this long.

I'm sure you've got tons of expensive things to do, but I will pass it to you last. any final closing thoughts before you have to go. I'm still bullish. Don't want to hear anybody sold any Satoshi's. It depresses me. No Satoshes. And onward and upward. Thank you for having me today.

It's been fine. Yeah. Thank you for being here. Wait, wait, wait, Michael, Sats or Satishis? Depends whether we're being formal or being casual. I feel like we sat, we should make sense. Sat's the standard. Satoshi's is long, you know, it's.

Okay, Sats for happy hours on Fridays. Satoshi's if I'm wearing a suit on Monday morning. You guys, have a good one. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. I'll DM you that info. All right. I'm going to pass it to, God, who have I already gotten reasons from?

I think Hoddle should be up next. Jack, we got yours. Jeff, we got yours. Hoddle. What the fuck has you feeling bullish? And I'm going to... Sorry, I'm just... You'll see my camera go blank for a minute because I'm changing my battery, but I can still hear you.

Keep going. All good. Yeah, one of the things that has me super bullish. He's gone black. Peter Thiel's. Peter Thiel is he still there? Peter Thiel's like basically Gambit, you know, trying to get... He's still there.

Yeah. I thought that was hyper bullish because it just shows the geo-plish. because it just shows the geopolitical war gaming is starting to kick into effect. I mean, some people on Twitter thought his comments were fud about China controlling Bitcoin, but it was obvious that he was framing Bitcoin as a Chinese weapon and insinuating that the American government needs to get their hands on this weapon and utilize this weapon against China or against whoever their perceived enemies are. And I think it's just this is an inevitable part of Bitcoin's journey.

Some of the unsavory parts of Teal's comments are like, you know, Teal runs Palantir. he's a defense contractor. Some of that is like, hey, let me sanction China using my surveillance technology, right? And I think like the interesting, we're moving into the big boy leagues of Bitcoin's adoption curve. And we're going to see this, you know, regulatory cat and mouse between devs and regulators. And I say let the horse in the gates. You know what I mean? It's a gift.

It's a gift to Troy. Like let it in and we'll see what happens. I'm fucking super excited about what comes next. Oh, yeah. Roll. I have no idea. We're waiting for Yeah, keep it going. I like it.

Comments. Oh, man. Vortex, go. Well, I guess I'll just do some final comments because I got to get going too. So just again, I want to say, thank you so much for everybody for watching this. Over 2,400 people.

Keep supporting Benny. He's got shows every single week, and they all, I'm sure, don't probably get 24 plus 100 viewers. So definitely keep supporting Benny, guys. Make sure he's got donation links. He's got a fantastic show. He's got so much stuff.

We're not ending this stream, Vortex. I know, but I got to leave. So sorry, but I got to leave. But yeah, so just want to say all that. Make sure to keep support, keep supporting your fellow Bitcoin content creators like Benny. And it's going to be all downhill pretty much from here. So just always remember, of course, the UASF. Never forget that.

And that's pretty much all I got to say. I just want to be clear here, Vortex. Like, I respect the fuck out of you. When you start doing that, I assume it's. ending like that I I know that that is I had years of of experiencing you doing exactly what you just did that's my ending I got to end also a vortex man I haven't seen you since you kind of dropped off of Twitter but I got to say I was like a fucking teenager every Sunday I had an alarm I'd get lunch and watch the Bitcoin show by vortex when I think about my Bitcoin journey

you're such a big part of it, man. I appreciate you so deeply and taking the opportunity to say that to you now that you're here. So thank you so much, man. I definitely would not be where I am Bitcoin wise without you, buddy. You humble me so much, Jack. You humble me so much, man. The stuff that you've done for Bitcoin far, I think outweighs anything I've ever done

on my YouTube channel. No, you're a material part of my life, dude. Seriously. Don't underestimate your impact. Thanks, dude. We love you guys. I love you guys. I love you guys and I'm always watching.

I'm always in the background. Even if I'm not on Twitter, trust me, guys, I'm there. So thank you guys so much for everything you do. Awesome. Cheers, good to see you.

See you guys. How fucking rad is it? It's like, you know, like when Peppy gets killed in Star Fox, then he comes back on level nine. You son of a bitch, I come back.

He messaged me and he was like, yo, don't tell anybody, but I would very much like to just peek into this chat. Just like, temporarily out of, out of, uh, at a retirement. So, but he's, he's doing well, man. He's, uh, off doing his own thing. And he, I think he's kind of like living that Bitcoin or dream where it's like he, he did his part. He felt like he contributed enough to make a, a difference. And then kind of

like, he was like, I'm going to hand it off. Um, I've, I've heard Odell say that. I want to make content until I feel like I don't need to make content anymore. And I think that's a pretty good ethos to have. Like once again, like when I feel like there's no more tutorials to be made, like when it's just like, well, I don't need you to fucking make a, I already know what's going on. I don't need the news. I don't need a panel and I don't need a, I don't need a tutorial on a Bitcoin wallet. Then, well, I'll move on to greener pastures.

but really cool to see him come back. Yeah, I thought you guys might appreciate. I have somebody, we got to wait maybe 10 minutes, but I've got somebody that wants to join us that I'm sure will be, will further contribute to the yelliness of the stream. Bitcoin Tina. Well, while we wait, while we wait, while we wait, while we wait. Yes.

200K by June. Absolutely. Is there anyone here who thinks that could happen besides me? I think it's possible. Yeah. Oh, yeah, possible, yeah. No, no. Are you putting your name behind it?

Is Jack Mahler in a women's shoes closet right now? Yeah. It's his woman's shoes closet, though. He owns that closet. What's everybody drinking right now, by the way? Hold on. What's everybody got? I've got...

I got Buffalo Trey. Classic. This is age 21 years. I got some chilled rosé because I keep tweeting at CNBC, those old farts, if they want me to come on and be unhinged, I would drink fucking rosé. out the bottle in this women's closet and give them all the energy they've long waited for. And so I'm over here.

I'm just going to dome this rosé bottle up. So CNBC, whenever you're ready. That's how Paul. I feel like we're kind of keeping things relatively chill for like the presence of sailor. And now we're like, okay, so the bottles are out like really going, really flowing now. So I feel like the dynamic has shifted. But this is, again, thank you guys for being here. Hoddle, can you reiterate what the hell you were talking about before we had to send off Sailor?

I was just talking about Teal's comments and the geopolitical wargaming that I think we're about to see with Bitcoin. And it's an inevitable part of Bitcoin's journey that nation states will adopt. And we've known that for quite a while. And I'm just interested to see how it all plays out. I think, you know, after Teal made his comments, you saw commentary from Michael Morrell, former acting deputy CIA, a pretty important person who's listened to that, you know, Bitcoin was not used for, you know, illicit purposes. Did you actually read the report, American Idol?

I read it, yes, and it's, he sees it as a super good surveillance technology, obviously. Yeah. Which he is currently, right? You have to be honest about that. And so there's going to be. He's either lying to himself or he's lying to whoever he's talking to, right? Because it's not a very good surveillance technology. They think it is, though.

So it's an important part of it. Did you see the quote? Which one? You know what quote I'm talking about? The report. The quote where he said, the quote where he said Bitcoin is the same as Asama bin Laden realizing he can't use a cell phone anymore because we can listen to everything he says. That quote was where he basically, where he basically,

normalized global mass surveillance without warrants and said that the US government has that same capability with Bitcoin, but we all pretended it was bullish. He was former... That quote. The acting director, like, of course. Of course he's saying.

He's wrong on that fact, and he's not lying to anybody. He just doesn't realize. He has no idea. Like I said, none of them know what's about to happen when Tapperut activates. They don't... Without Tappert.

Without Tapproot, I know, I know. These people can use it privately. It's the problem is the unexperienced. The old back list is like actually doing something. It does nothing, obviously. If you go kind of one level up and a lot of people talk about China, getting on Bitcoin, there's no chance that a nation state like China will accept Bitcoin

because it powers the individual and it provides deflation. And if you remove, if you remove inflation, the ability to print. print to currency, you remove power from the state. You give it to individuals. So to pretend that China is going to, China's essentially right now, the game theory, the geopolitical game theory is right now, as the U.S. prints more money, China just prints more to keep the dollar in check, their exchange rate in check. So what the U.S. is doing by printing more money is actually embolding nation states like China to be able to create a digital one, which is ultimate surveillance state. And that's what the world looks like on this path, on this path.

Bitcoin, again, I keep saying this, but Bitcoin, the government has to get smaller because it has to negotiate with its citizens to pay tax the right level of tax and they can't hide the tax in inflation. So it can't, it can't overspend it. to what the citizens want to build a bigger government, all of that goes away. So that's kind of the real game that says. So when people say China is driving Bitcoin, there's no way they can't.

It's way more likely, as Saylor said, that US, which was built on freedom of the individual, is more likely to adopt a policy stance to move it out and benefit from it earlier. Yeah, absolutely. Let's assume, again, and we were kind of talking about this at the very beginning when I asked Saylor about his analytics

that seems to be a nothing burger. I'm going to toss it back to Odell here. What are best practices? People that don't like the idea of a potential 60102 and don't like the idea of the CIA, former CID director saying that this is like a wonderful dragnet to surveil everybody. What do you do? You have to learn and you have to take your own fucking responsibility into your own fucking hands.

Unfortunately, it's super profitable to be a surveillance company, right? And we're seeing this every fucking day in Bitcoin land. Like the most profitable companies in Bitcoin land are the ones that are either offering you interest on your Bitcoin and they're trying to incentivize you to hand over custody of your Bitcoin or they're surveilling your Bitcoin. Those are the two best business models in Bitcoin land. People like Jack who are trying to offer you like easy transactions have to like scrape by on very low fees. like he doesn't make that much fees off of off of your transactions but the people that that surveil you they can charge whatever the fuck they want to governments the u.s. government will pay coin base significant amount of money to reclaim uh lost tax dollars right

they'll they'll do that they'll do that in a fucking heartbeat so this is what we're up against and and when we're talking about bitcoin we're talking about incentives right and so you you measure all those incentives together. And what it comes down to is at the end of the day, if you care about yourself, if you care about your family, you need to learn how to use Bitcoin securely on your own. Is there like a first,

like let's say there's a, there's a pleb sitting here, just kind of getting into this being like, oh shit, where do I even start here? What's your typical answer to that question? How do I get started? What's the first thing I need to,

look at to even begin understanding this realm. I think the first thing you have to do is you just have to fucking care. You just have to realize like my boss shouldn't know what I spend. Like I got a bonus the other day paid in Bitcoin. It came to my Bitcoin core wallet, right? I sent them my address. It got paid out to that Bitcoin Core wallet. And at that point, I have a UTXO, right?

And it comes for my boss. and my boss should not know where that expense goes next. Just because you pay me $3,000 or $5,000 or whatever the bonus is, you shouldn't know where that bonus goes next. And in that situation, you have to use Bitcoin privately, right? And you have to learn how to use Coin Join. You have to learn how to use fucking Lightning after you use Coin Join. and if you don't, your boss will know exactly what you spent

and whoever you spent it with will know exactly what your boss paid you in terms of your bonus. And I think this is a very basic thing. This is something that humans should inherently realize is wrong and they should seek to solve. They don't want people who pay them or the people they pay to know what they, spend their money on. So I just kind of want to, if you think about the average person, this group

knows, knows this down to the sand and is thinking the next level and the next level and the next level, if you start that with the average person and realize how much they have to do to overcome the barrier or they think they have to do, you scare them like it's too, it's too complicated. What Chad said, this is an open network that anybody can participate with. This, anybody, Nobody can stop you from participating with it. And the existing system is going to fail. So you need to be on the system. As that open network accelerates and the best minds and brightest minds and entrepreneurs

accelerated on top of that technology, it will get better, stronger, faster, everything else on top of that, and it'll emerge. But unless you can take that first step, most people are scared to death of all of the complication on this. And it's really quite simple. And as they go buy it. Go by, it's in everybody's hands to go by. And you're right on the next step, next step, next step, if you're just talking to a mass audience, how we get more people to care, the existing system is going to fail. The existing system breeds insecurity. It is picking your pocket. And you have a choice to get involved in

something that doesn't. You have a choice to get on the right side of history. And the more that you learn about it, it'll take you on a journey of more understanding. One of the analogies that I've been using for people who are newbies is I think step one is you got to buy Bitcoin, right? We're talking about the average person, somebody's mom. You got to buy Bitcoin. Step two is you got to take custody of that Bitcoin. So get some in the game, get some education, get some custody going.

Custody is super scary to the vast majority of people because they're not used to taking personal responsibility. It was scary for me when I made my first transaction. So what I've analogized it to is like learning to drive a car. You start off in the parking lot and then you move to the city streets and then to the highway. So just set up a wallet, you know, send a little bit, test it out, get comfortable with it, play around with the network. Like you're quote unquote investing in Bitcoin and you've never sent a transaction over the Bitcoin network. You really haven't done basic due diligence as an investor, right? So it's important to do that.

Okay. I'm going to add, oh, sorry. I see who you're going to add. I don't want to stop them from joining. No, Jack, you go first, Jack, and then we'll bring in. And then I just got to jump off. Okay, no problem. Jeff, thank you so much for being here.

Had a blast with you here. And I love your insight and your book. Everybody check it out. Yeah, Jeff, we never formally met. I appreciate you. Thank you for all your work. Great back out. Good, you see it,

Jeff. Your book is amazing, brother. It really is. I recommend it to people with the Bitcoin standard. I say they should read both. Thanks, guys.

Really appreciate that. 100%. Jack, take it, and then we'll bring in our family. No, I think my thoughts, I believe that there's a sense of Darwinism

in this, and I group a lot of this topic into altcoins as well. The way I describe altcoins, are people that are willing to risk their UTXOs to re-hypothecate and generate a small amount of yield. Any of that nonsense, I group in, I describe it as an arbitrage on the trend. What I mean by that is there's a lot of people that are deeply excited that Bitcoin represents opportunity, Bitcoin represents upside. Bitcoin ultimately represents a higher quality of life.

The people that have been in Bitcoin that understand it, the companies here that have been stacking SaaS for years are presumably living, a higher quality of life than those that have not. And so people are deeply interested. And so I'll measure that interest over here. Now, over here is them having a full understanding of why Bitcoin's important, the correct way to custody, the correct way to buy, the correct way to think about the world and think about Bitcoin relative to the world. And so what lives within that is what I call an arbitrage opportunity.

Similarly, if someone was letting me buy this bucket hat for $2 and I have a friend that's willing to buy it for me for $10, I buy the hat for two, I sell it for 10, that's an arbitrage opportunity. I view that similarly is that within this gap, someone can create pink coin or red coin or wood coin or faster coin, and they can sell it to those that are very, very interested, but don't yet have that full understanding over here. And I've been in this space for almost a decade now, and what you're saying is it was much easier 10 years ago to create a shit coin and then sell it to the job. general public than it is today. And I think 10 years from now, it will be tremendously harder to do that

than it is today. And life is in the most efficient way possible is working its way through of some form of Darwinism. And those that don't have that fundamental understanding, those that aren't willing to invest in education and in resources and in a humble fashion being receptive to not knowing everything and being a good listener are getting burned. And that cost is being invested in everyone, collective community's progression towards like an eventual Bitcoin standard. And so I think the way to think about it is anyone that's willing to try and attempt to trust someone else to generate 6% yield on their Bitcoin, where this asset class in its history has returned 100 to 200% annualized on average.

And that if you understand the asset class and the design of the system and how it's going to perform relative to any collectible, any real estate, any precious metal, any nation state currency, and that all you got to do is hold it and your quality of life and all your dreams are going to be reachable and attainable. So anyone that prefers the former and that uses services that re-hypothicate you or that buys shit coins, it just represents a severe misunderstanding and a lack of sophistication. and a really just unfortunate short-term thinking approach that is devastating. And so that's how I think about it. And I don't, I'm not too concerned about it, to be quite honest with you, because I think laws of humanity and Darwinism work itself out. Like I self-custody my UTXOs. No one can do shit about that.

And people are going to learn the hard way. And I've got nothing but time as long as I can stay healthy and treat my body well. So that's how I think about it. I love it. Bitcoin Tina has joined. I think he's muted, but hopefully. Oh, there is. I don't want to cough in here.

There you are. Have you been listening? I have been listening. I was disappointed that Jeff Booth left. I wanted to say hi. Yes, he is excellent. He's just a wealth of knowledge. He really is.

I'm a big fan of his. And I like to recommend the greatest game. I think it's an easy read. I think there's a lot there. It's short, but it's a great essay, and I recommend it a lot, along with a few other things.

I love it. I'm going to say something a little radical. Do it. Do it. I think about this a lot, and it's not going to be liked by people, but I've thought about it a lot. And it's a real issue,

and it's unfortunately, a practicality that someone like me is going to have to engage in. And that I thought about that the problem is you can't kind of have your cake and eat it too. Can't have your Bitcoin and still spend and pay your bills. You either have to sell Bitcoin or you have to find an alternative way of doing it. And I've come to the conclusion that if you're going to be pretty much all in, you're going to have to borrow against it in a transitionary, transitionary period, which I think will be about a decade,

and take a small percentage of what you have and borrow against it. Because when you sell it, you won't have it. You're going to be selling it. And you're going to also have to pay taxes, whether you like it or not. Taxes are a reality of life. So if you're, even with a long-term capital gain in the United States, that's going to be 20% plus Obamacare, which is 24% to get altogether. And in many states, it's going to be anywhere from 5 to 10, 11, 12%,

depending on the state, which means you're going to lose by selling your Bitcoin anywhere from 24% to 35%, which is just a loss because you're going to have to pay it to the government, whether you like it or not. So selling it means you're going to spend it. And so realistically, I think we're going to have to borrow against Bitcoin. Hopefully, there will be over time better methods to do it in multi-sig. I think that it's the best asset in the world. I think you should have even in a multi-sig the lowest rates in the world

because it's wonderful. It's a 24-7 asset in a very deep liquid market. But we're not there yet. I might have to lend into custodial Bitcoin to not have to sell Bitcoin. I was considering doing something and with proceeds buying some Bitcoin, hopefully riding it up in a bull market, and then selling some of that Bitcoin to pay off the loan and have some extra Bitcoin that I could then also use to borrow against.

And it depends on what the bear market looks like. If it's what I think it might be, a 40% bare market, then you might take a 20, 25% loan to value or less if it's a war-spare market, you might have to take a smaller loan to value. But it's a difficult situation because realistically, I'm not working. I'm an old man, and I'm not about to start working because I'm no interest in working. So I don't have an income. So I have to find some way to pay my bills and to live nicely.

I don't want to live like I lived. in the 2018, 19, and 20, 20, bear market wondering how the hell I'm going to pay my bills. So it's an unfortunate reality of life, but either I'll have to take some chance with a custodial solution, which I'm not happy about. Hopefully, you'll get a decent multi-sig

that's not going to charge me like 12% for the pleasure. or I'm going to have to spend my Bitcoin to pay my bills. And this is just there's, we're not there yet. I would like this to be, I'd like us to be there now. I'm hopeful that we'll be there in maybe two years, three years. And hopefully it would be a multi-sig, which would be nice, a less of a custodial situation. But I think this is just the reality of life.

you're going to lose it by spending it to pay your bills if you're, you know, if you don't have an income. And I also have some GBTC. It's an alternative way. I'm hopeful that that's already custodial Bitcoin. I'm hopeful that in a world where that converts to an ETF, it'll be marginal and optionable. And I will be able to borrow against that, not yet, but again, in probably a year, year and a half. And then I can pay my bills, spend, live well. And by the way, I'm drinking sake.

Yo, Tina, Tina, Tina, Tina, you keep talking. And December 20, December 31st, 2021, what's the price? Number 31st? Yeah, the end of the year. The end of the fucking this year, what's the price of Bitcoin? Excellent question. I don't think of it in terms of a one-year horizon because to me, that's not what's important. See, I don't care about this year.

I'm looking at it over the next two or three years. And I think by 2023, it's going to be in the high six figures and ultimately Tina, that's not what they asked you. Asked you. But I don't know. I'm going to interrupt you both. Hold on. I'm going to interrupt you both because I know Jack's on a timeline here.

So we're going to get Jack's specific dollar value answer. I want to say one thing. I want Jack to know what a huge fan I am of this. I'm a super fan of the work that Jack has done with Lightning Strike and Zap. And I just want him to know that there are a lot of people out here who really love Jack and are really proud of him. I've met Jack. I think he is a great guy. And I think he's talented.

And I've talked to his mom from time to time. And there are a lot of people out here who are really fucking super proud of you. You are a star, Jack, and we love that. I appreciate that, man. I'm a fan. I love you, too. Let me know if you want to make out after the show. Jack, if your name were Jacqueline,

if your name were Jacqueline, there'd be a much better chance of it, but not too many 28-year-old women want to date an old guy like me. But if you were built right and you were female, yeah, I'd be real interested. Don't tell my wife, because I'm getting a lot of trouble. We'll take this combo offline. Um, no, I appreciate it, man. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm drinking rosé. I'm not going to get emotional. It's, that's dangerous territory. But, uh, it means a lot. It really does.

I'm drinking, drinking sake, which is why, you know, we're in dangerous territory. Yeah, no. But, um, I guess I'll parlay that transition into my sign-off. I'm going to head out. I got to take a piss. I actually have a meeting with, uh, a few NBA organizations, uh, that want a lot to do with Bitcoin. So I'll let you guys know that I'm going to do Bitcoin shit, which is exciting. But generally speaking, like it's been the greatest joy in my life to work on this shit, man. There's no better career with monetary upside, but also just the people you get to meet and the impact you get to have on society. I wouldn't want to be alive in a different time. I feel so lucky and blessed. this crew here. Fans of all you guys, I've been scrolling through the YouTube chat and the support kills me, man. I feel like yesterday I was dropping around a fucking college and like I didn't

know how to code and you blink. So thank you guys. I appreciate it. And I'll be on Twitter and show you know where to find me. And I'm going to try and tune in to the rest of the show. If you guys stream through the night, I'll be in the YouTube chat at some point. We love you, bro. Thank you, man. Take care, Jack. Keep up a good work. Yeah, you guys too. Peace out. Awesome. I love it.

I love, how did I, I ended up with Hoddle, O'Dell, and Bitcoin, Tina, sipping on booze on a Friday evening. We don't know. Tina is just completely sober. No, he said he sounds like. Say it a little louder around. A 60102 wanted me to ask everybody if they've done a coin join before. but I think I was supposed to ask that back

Have you? Have you? I have, yeah. Wasabi, which apparently was no good. No, I'm impressed if did anything. I followed Ben's, I followed Ben's wasabi cold card tutorial. Very good.

I have tutorials on everything. It was the minute. You know Sessions has done all the coin toys. I'm not going to not like I did my whole stack. I just recommend Ben stuff to some nobs Yeah Tina Tina you've never done a coin join

Now I'm waiting for coin swap Yeah that's sad I know You're such a boomer I know I am It's terrible you're right You know all I do All I do is

You know what I do is You know how to work a cold card though You know how to work a cold card right That's pretty good I know to work a cold card And I have a cold card And I've been It can't be that bad for you that

And I've Specter Yep I expect. Yeah. So you've got all the basic. I mean, is it like a, you're worried that the implementations right now aren't good enough?

Or is it you're worried about diving into just trying it? I'm lazy. I just haven't had the bandwidth to do it. There's some stuff I just have not had the bandwidth to do because it's just, I'm just lazy. By the way, um, that Fortune 10 company I was talking about,

I have already handed that off to Michael. So, that's fine. go. Jesus. Oh, man. Tina, I just listened to you and Hoddle scream on McCormick's podcast the other day. That was fun. I enjoyed that. And screaming is because of the AirPods. You need to understand. It's the AirPods situation.

Now, with my Air Max, I can hear much better. I almost never scream when on mic with external speakers. of course Max is in the room I might have to we were screamed a little bit on Swan Bitcoin earlier yeah yeah that's that's fair that's fair no I like your rants though I like when you're you're handing it somebody on Clubhouse as seldom as I jump on

I think that's a good time and I think it's a it because Clubhouse for the I'll say for the most part most people in the room are not like Tina level where they're going to destroy your hopes and dreams the moment you say something wrong. But it lulls them into when they get to Bitcoin Twitter. I think it preps them.

I don't know. I think you're a good prep mechanism. I'm pretty hardcore. I'm a little lazy about doing some things, which is why I haven't done some things that I'd like to do. And so there's more that I could have done, but it's just it's a laziness. I, you know, I spent too much time on things like,

like Twitter and Clubhouse. So, like, I'm supposed to be getting some other work done right now, but you sent me a DM and said, would you like to join the stream? And of course, I said, yes, I'd love to join the stream. So instead of doing something constructive for myself and working stuff, but Bitcoin related. No one cares.

I instead jumped on, I instead jumped on the stream because I would just much rather hang out with you guys on the stream. So, unfortunately, it's because I like having a good time, that I get lazy and don't do some of these other things. But eventually I will get around to it. It takes me about four times to five times as long as it should. It's a kind of procrastination. And I've been this way my entire life, did it in college.

And now that I'm an old man, I can continue to procrastinate. I will probably procrastinate my way into the grave. And even though I'm probably supposed to die in one year, and hopefully I can put it off for another five or ten years past when I'm supposed to go so I can just hold on. So I think the takeaway is from the stream so far is we need to convince Sailor to self-custody and we need to convince Bitcoin Tina to coin join.

That was the great question. I just like, why was I the first question to ask Sailor about that? What about self-custody? I was too busy asking him about that. No one wanted to ask him about that. No one's ever asked him about that. About which. I don't have they not about one there hasn't been a single question about self-custody to sailor

I don't know I started off with whatever everybody's asking about the like other shit right everybody's asking about whatever his plans for the the drag net surveillance on bitcoin was going to be I honestly didn't know that he didn't self-custody that's kind of shitty they all use custodians yeah every one in the comments are just like they're like Matt's hammer Matt is hammered. You know, enjoy it. That's good.

That's the best thing. I enjoy it. All these motherfuckers are all bearish on Bitcoin. What's your end of year, what's your end of year price prediction? December 31st, 2021. Matt's hammer. What's your price of prediction? American, let's start with American Hoddle.

No, no. Bitcoin, Tina, we already know you're bearish as fuck. 500 is your price target. 500 is my, is my, is my perfect in the near term and Polish, bullish in the long. What's your price target, American Hottle? 500 500k December 31st Howdo's got a bet with McCormick

I've got to think he's at least going to hit 300k if we don't hit 300 sessions sessions December 31st December 31st what's the price of Bitcoin first I'm going to put in the context

of what I think we might hit over the course of the year so I think that we go well beyond like things like stock to flow cross asset like the 288K I think we go well beyond that I think we way overshoot

that when shit gets crazy I think we get like Bitcoin Tina's like oh we've gone to far level I think we get to a level where it's like 800K where everybody's saying million dollar Bitcoin next week everybody's fucking oh it's over

hyper bike Bitcoinization is here it's happening and then it fucking drops out. I think that's what happens. I think that happens earlier than the end of the year because I'm basing this on when did the having happen versus the calendar year because Bitcoin doesn't work in regular time. What's the top? What's the top? Like 800K probably. Somewhere in there. 800. Yeah, I'm cool with that. I'm cool with that. Tina. Tina. I think we probably in somewhere between two and three. maybe you're such a bear

you're like a piece of shit I know it needs but it needs an explanation so here's the thing you're bare no one cares maybe you don't care but it matters so here's the thing

as you have bigger money coming in you're going to have people like Kramer you're going to have people who have bigger money and they're going to peel some off that's going to keep I think keep Bitcoin going parabolic now I think that's a good thing because I think that continues

the bull market. Okay. I think we basically have a bull. Wait, hold on. Stock to cross-asset model, the stock-to-flow cross-asset model is not a time prediction. It's based on a cluster price that happens over a four-year time horizon. And the number is 288 times as high as 2.5. So there is no time prediction in the cross-asset model, according to plan B.

So you could hit a cluster price of 288, which means that this thing grows and you could be at 7,800,000 to come in 2023. You're such a fucking bear. What the fuck are you? 700,000 in 2020. I'm talking about the cross-asset model. It's okay. We love you, bro. We love you. You're a boy. It's fine. It's fine. Hey, Matt. You're wrong. I've always said all surprises are on the upside, and the model breaks to the upside. But I think that having Bitcoin not go parabolic is bullish as fuck. And personally, I would like to not see, and I also don't think you're going to see Bitcoin trade the way it did last decade.

I think it's going to trade differently. And I think that there will be a lot of people who may lose their Bitcoin thinking they can time this market. I think you don't see much more than a 40% sell off from a peak. That's not my point. No, but it matters. And it matters because I think. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter to someone who tells people to stay humble and stack. It goes parabolic. And if it doesn't go parabolic and it doesn't crash, it only goes down 40%. 40% is not a big move for Bitcoin. What I'm saying is that if you're planning on trying to trade that move and you don't get your 80% drawdown, you're going to own a lot less Bitcoin if you're bro bro you don't think you don't think we pass

300k by the end of this year you're you're a fucking bear maybe we're a fucking bear it doesn't matter what the drawdown is but next year you get between 5 and 600 and the year after you're a fucking bear bro and in 20203 you get between 800 and 1.2 million so what I'm saying is is that no I don't think what's that

who the fuck are you? are you? You're supposed to be I have never, hold on, I have never targeted just 2021. In all the years that I've tweeted, it has always been over the course of four years.

So what I'm saying is consistent with what I have always said, it has been generally misinterpreted by people, and I have never talked, I have been pretty consistent that this is going to happen over a course of 2021, 2022, 2023. I just,

not believe, I do not believe that Bitcoin is going to trade the same way that it did in the prior in the prior decade. I think it's going to trade differently. And I think with the people buying it, it's going to trade differently. I think the fact that you have people like Kramer, as I said, who lighten up, the fact that Bitcoin is going sideways now is bullish as fuck. Because this thing, you're getting rid of sellers. You've got buyers. And when the selling finally dries up, this thing's going to move higher. And I think it'll go through a bunch of these things where it goes sideways and moves up. I don't, I don't think it, I think having a bull market, which extends year after year after year can put us at north of a million dollars

before the next having. And I think that's, personally, I think that's a much better bull market. And I think that's what we're going to see. In spite of the fact that people are people, but it is a very useful thing that you're going to have bigger money, peel a little bit off and You talk a lot for a fucking bear, bro. Hey, that's what it is. But you know what? I'm bullish as fuck. But I'm not bullish.

You're not bullish. Not by your definition. I don't care. Matt, I love you, but I don't care what your definition is. You know what I think. I think what I think. I think that Bitcoin Tina is right, but ahead of his time. because I think what he's saying right now

is more likely to play out in the next cycle than the current one. No, he's completely wrong. He's completely incorrect. By the next cycle, you're going to see, you could very well see by 2025, 20, 26, $5 million Bitcoin. What the, yeah, congratulations, bro.

Congratulations. The most conservative fucking guess ever. You can not want to see a single parabolic. And I don't think you will because I think you're going to have people who sell into it and suppress that, which is bullish as hell. Unless, of course, unless, of course, you have the hardest trade, and it just trades up to $1 or $2 million and go sideways for three or four years,

which it could do. You could have Bitcoin trade up to a million bucks and trade in a range from $700K to a million dollars for two or three years after that. Could easily do that. How do you pretend you're a bull while saying that? Let's see what Alex Svetsky has to say about that. he's been sitting patiently waiting through this rant no no wait wait wait wait wait wait before that people want to know what my

prediction is for the end of the year Matt do it what is and I'm thinking like 500K I'm thinking at least 500k by the end you think that's down from something do you think it peaks prior or do you think where do you think it'll be where do you think it'll be in 2022 Matt no fucking Tina's calling for 200k by the end of the year he's a fucking bear I said I said two to three period he's so fucking off base he's he's off by a magnitude.

Magnitude is 10x. So it'd have to go to 2 million. Okay, okay. Fuck you, bro. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I, that I incorrectly use the grammar. You're still incorrect.

You're still a fucking bear. So 500. Is that coming down from something? Is that, or is that on the way still up? Oh, yeah. We're going up. What is it going to be right up? Matt, Matt,

where's it at the end of? 22. Yo, when, when Tina's a bear, everyone should be stacking. Okay. Like when when Tina is fucking bearish, everyone should be fucking trying to accumulate as much

Bitcoin as possible. Like we're all short on Bitcoin right now. Keep stacking. We are all short Bitcoin. I want to hear what Hoddle thinks and how good is your sandwich. What sandwich? I think we're going to 500K by the end of the year. Is that,

Is that like 31st or like at some point between the end of the year and now? I also think, listen, I think super cycle theory is retarded. We're going to have a fucking winter. I agree. I disagree with super cycle theory. 100%. And we have, Tina's like, Tina's like, Tina's like, we're going to have a super cycle and Bitcoin's

going to hit a million dollars in 2020. Like how do you agree with both of those things? Dude, Dogecoin is outperforming Bitcoin on the five year. Supercycle is hyper rational. the world is hyper irrational. There is no super cycle. You know what I mean? People are buying JPEGs.

Yeah. They're buying JPEG. Supercycle. Supercycle would mean we're $5 million like by 2023. That'd be super cycle. But it would be a lengthening of the cycle also. $62,000.

Making it up 20X from here, that's like a walk in the park. It's not even 18X. 18X to 2023. That's like nothing. used to be bullish I love how this chat has descended into

us all shitting on each other for it's not the same number of hundreds of ways I get it more socky let's see what Alex has to say when Michael's are you here we're on our best behavior but can you guys see me

is it? Yeah we got you man thanks for coming yeah I got you yeah fucking earth really really good to see everyone although you can't see me because I'm in a fucking jungle and me and Francis were actually supposed to catch up and then

honestly it started raining so hard here it feels like the whole fucking mountain's going to slide so he called up like man I don't want to die so let's just catch up tomorrow are you are you down in in South America right now yeah man I me and Francis are in the jungle over here so you know in an undisclosed location but yeah this is where we are Costa Rica I love I'm that's on my bucket list it's I'm planning it it's a fucking good spot man and the girls man

the caliber of girls holy shit my wife would appreciate that but yes she would she would anyway so what have I missed so you guys are a super sorry actually I'm gonna take Matt Adele and um and huddle side on this one sorry Tina but

I I think I honestly and you and I was talking about this on Clubhouse man like a steady upward rise like I'm like Bitcoin cash is getting bought up BUSV is getting bought up fucking Bitcoin gold

Bitcoin gold is $120 $120. I am so happy you don't agree with me you have no fucking idea and so fucking happy you don't agree it's perfect It's okay All right. I mean, look, I just think we're going to have a fucking other mania.

Like, because, like, I don't know. I was, I was actually at a party the other night. Well, quite a quite a party. I, like, fucking joined this group of people. And I did a tweet about it the other day. And it's like, man, we're all sitting there at dinner. And they're all talking about how, like, you know, they put a deposit on this condo. And, like, they talk about how much fucking, you know, a breakfast or dinner in New York costs and all this sort of shit. And, like, they were sort of like making money hand over a fist. Like they were like they were kind of like celebrity on a celebrity but fucking like high-end hairdressers and shit charging like you know $1,500 for a haircut and shit and the kind of shit that I was hearing I'm like

these people think they're getting rich you know they're buying like they're showing me like you know how much their portfolios are worth on on wood and you know they've got fucking coinbase and showing me how like what fucking shit coins they're in and like and this just reminds me of like the stupidity of you know what you read about and in you know why my republic books and it's just i don't think we've reached peak stupidity yet and until we reach peak stupidity we're not going to see a long extended upward trend i we're going to see fucking dump and dumps of all sorts of shit and the mindless retards that are you know throwing money around at every layer of society are going to to move to we're going to see another winter i i i'm

I'm convinced that this is, the clean part of the journey hasn't come yet. I think we're in for a lot of mess. I'd echo that, but hey, like, the thing is, none of us really fucking know,

and I guess we'll find out by the end of the year what, what happens. So, like, I'm, I'm leaning towards blow off top, which, you know,

like, to me, 288 or like 300 is not a blow off top. It's like, you know, it's like 5x, from where we are. I don't think that's a blow off top from here.

I think we do see that with, you know, multiples. Like when people are looking at stock to flow and they're like, oh, yeah, it'll be like a little bit within this range. And then it just like blows that away. By the thing that everybody gets wrong about plan B's prediction is he says 288, but then he says that that's the median price and it overshoots 2 to 3x. So that's what you should really be expected. somewhere between 500 and 800.

Yeah, and I'm kind of leaning, given on like our pace in comparison to 2013 and 2017. And in comparison, not on a calendar year, but based on when we actually had the halving, that's kind of what I'm basing it on. And it seems like we're moving at a quicker pace than 2017, but not as fast as 2013. and so that puts us somewhere in the middle. And based on like how how quickly it moved in terms of 2017 since the having, that puts us somewhere 800 to 900K as like a blow off top.

Will that play out? I don't, I don't fucking know. Like does anybody really, really know? Probably not. No one knows. Yeah.

But that's my, that's my guess. That's my most educated. But all these motherfuckers are bears, right? Like, No one knows where we go, but they're all fucking bears. Like, what the fuck? Drunk O'Dell is my favorite.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate you, Ben. I'm so glad. Are you going to be at a Miami? Yeah. Are you going to be in Miami? Of course I'm going to be in Miami. Miami's going to be fucking dope as fuck.

They're doubling the price of their tickets tonight. I got mine for 20 bucks. How about you? Yeah, I got mine. $1.00, too. Low time preference, bitches. Well, you would have had to have bought the tickets for Bitcoin 2019 or sorry for Bitcoin 2020, which didn't happen 2020. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm I'm super stoked for that.

No, you go. I was I was done my thought. I'm stoked for Bitcoin 221. That's it. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'm fucking hoping I can make it. I was actually going to say like I've come. I know what talking price and stuff like that, but I've just become so numb to price these days. Like, it doesn't, like, I don't know if any of you guys are sort of, like, feel this way as well, but like, I literally, I can lead a trading view. Um, I don't have any more price on my phone. None of that shit. Like, like, I've literally automated away any semblance of price. The only, the only indication I get of any pumps or anything like that is if I don't jump on Twitter and people are fucking making noise about something. But I have literally not.

no fucking concept. Like for me, like my life doesn't change until Bitcoin to least a million bucks, at which point I would consider, you know, borrowing against my Bitcoin to go and do shit in the real world. But until then, like, I don't know, I just, like, where we are now for me is fucking because, you know, four or five months ago, I was buying way more Bitcoin with my dollars and I was fucking jeering. Now I'm like, Jesus Christ, like my $500.

you know, every week for webs and buy anything. So, you know, it's not like, I don't know. It's a, I think we're in limbo until, like, I don't think anything changes until Bitcoin is at least worth a million bucks. And, you know, whenever that happens, it happens. But like, I don't know, that doesn't change anything for me. Yeah, I mean, I'd echo that.

We're just, most of time is where it's at. We just need to be on Moscow time. That's the real measure. It's all just more being right. We're fucking right. And we're just going to be more right going into the future. It's just more rightness.

You know? It's more winning. It's all that. I love it. It's funny. I was actually on a, I was on some dude's podcast today who was trying to pitch me that fucking

Manaro was the game. And it was just cringwood. And it's like, you know, the, like, some of these Monero shows, like, it's funny, that they've got a similar sort of vision as to why it's important to defund the state and all this sort of stuff, but their fucking strategy is like ridiculous. They think that by ducking, dodging and, you know, sending each other, you know, monopoly money privately is how we're going to bring down the state.

And so fucking, you know, just to sort of what huddles said, it's like, you know, if we, if we, We are so economically right that we have the economic mass to call the fucking shots. Then we know we won. Until then, like sitting here fucking hiding behind, you know, Manero and little fucking pissy transactions, it's like it's so good, man. So, yeah. Somebody in the chat said, really, really, really, really fucking so right that we can fucking call all the shots.

Somebody in the chat said, Saylor held this all together. after he left, Matt got drunk and Hoddle ate a tuna sandwich. Did you eat a tuna sandwich? It was turkey in mayo. Because I definitely got drunk. I ate a sandwich too. You know what? I like this because this is giving me some nostalgia for the first appearance of American Hoddle on TFTC.

When you guys got drunk as fuck, Yeah, and I was hard to get him home. Oh, my God. Matt had to put me in the cab, bro. I was so, too. I remember me and Matt. He doesn't remember. Shoving hot dogs in my mouth.

I was like, yeah, we totally moved to Wyoming, bro. I was listening to that. I was like, mm-hmm, let's go. It was back in the day when New York was, you may have like some respect. We got to do another drunken TFTC in Miami and just get, so, dude, the last 30 minutes of that podcast, were such a mystery to me.

I was like, I have no idea what we fucking talked about. I was stone cold sober listening to that. I was going on a road trip through Florida. And like my wife and infant child were sitting in the back of the car. And I'm just jacked on this. Yes. My wife's like,

what are you listening to? Who are these idiots? It was great. I loved it. It was one of the most bullish podcast. I think I've ever listened to. Everybody that's still here that has endured this drunken bullshit like post real talk, go back and listen to the episode of TFDC where American Hoddle comes on for the first time because they get just shit loaded.

But there's so much truth in there because I remember Odell talking about buying Bitcoin at a Bitcoin ATM for a 30% premium and Hoddle's like it's the best fucking thing you ever did. Best fucking thing you ever did. And he was right. 7K or 6K of Bitcoin or something, right? Back in the day. Yeah, we were at like, yeah. We were like 8K when we recorded that podcast. You know, I went back and listened to that podcast a little while ago.

We sound like fucking profits and not just us on that pod, but just all of us on Twitter. Like, literally, I mean, RHR has been going on. RHR has been every week for two and a half years. That's what got to see the bare market. Every week we fucking did our HR. And dude, like, two and a half years. People look at themselves and legitimately ask themselves, why do these idiots on Twitter know, why did they all know what was going to happen? In unison, they called their shot like a bunch of fucking fortune tellers.

And then it happened exactly as they fucking said it was going to happen. Ask yourself. Ask yourself why that is. What do we fucking know that you don't know? A lot, apparently. You know what I mean? Maybe you should pay attention. Your strategy hasn't.

been working out so well for you, has it? Like, check yourself. Check yourself. You suck. You suck in investing. To Haney's restaurant is better than you. Okay. Jessica Vaughn, former playbite, play model. Better than you. Everyone's better than you. All better than you. You suck. If somebody, if somebody like scrubbed through this, this podcast, it would be so different from the beginning to the end. That's exactly how I hoped for this to play out. Uh, it's excellent. It's excellent. excellent. The guys and gals at Citadel 21 say keep drinking and keep ranting. I don't think there's any plan to let up. Of course, any of the panel that are not having a good time are welcome to step out. I appreciate you regardless. I'm say, capitulate. I've still got a

bottle going here. So I don't know how you guys are. There's people that drunk Matt O'Dell energy, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I see the chat. Tell me to ease up on drinking. Like, who the fuck are these people? Who are you? There's a steady. I really appreciate your podcast. Like, do you have a podcast?

This is so great. There's such a mix of like, this is the best pod ever. And yeah, there's like, there's half of the people are like, okay, I think I'm done with this.

And then the other half are like, drink more. Keep going. If you don't like, they're like, the more people. The thing more people. people understand.

If you don't like this part of the podcast, you're a cut coiner. That's what Matt O'Dell would call you. Okay. Yeah, I have that domain. I'm having the time of my life. This is like one of those epic movies where it goes through like a whole bunch of different. Actually, there's a movie that this reminds me of. And I don't know the name of it because I was in Thailand and it was like an Indian movie where they have like six different acts to it.

And it's like this non-cohesive story. and it's somehow a musical also, but it shifted from like such a different feel from the beginning to what it is now. And it's just, it's beautiful. I'm going to keep going with this. Let's let's,

let's keep it going. And I agree with the guys at Citadel 21, which by the way, if you're not subscribed, uh, awesome articles out of these guys. And I'm getting the hard copies. I'm currently,

uh, suspended on Twitter. So if you don't see me around for the next 12 hours, that's why just saying great awesome that's fantastic so what did you say this time how I have no idea

honestly I felt like I was being really nice and respectable I love it okay so we have a mix of what 200k on a low bearish end to like

was there anybody like Odell did you say your number for end of year? Yeah, 500. I said, 500. Me and Matt of the same one. Am I the most bullish person? Wait, no, no. Fuck you, bro. What do you think?

I said, 800. 800 about the end of the year? No, 800 within the year. And then whenever that happens, it starts to drop. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you think we peak. Okay, I'll agree with you. Okay. All right, fair enough. That won't let you.

I'm not going to let you. What do you think for 2022 and 2023? Tina, I think you're a bear. I think we're going to have a winner, dude. We're going to have a Bitcoin winner like we always do. And we're going back to sick. I'm so happy.

I'm so happy. I'm so happy. No, I'm going to remind you of this. No idea. I'm so happy. All right. I disagree with. I like to be out there.

I like to be out there alone with my views. That's what I like. Okay, that's good. I think the bear market is better. I will say I disagree with Tina. I think we still have that blow off top. I think it sinks down. And I think it's not like, it might be muted a little bit.

What was the last drop was what, 80%? Was it 80? Yeah, ish. Yeah, right? 80-ish. I'm either going to be really wrong or I'm going to be really right. so I'm prepared to be really wrong and that's okay but I might be really right

and so I'm good with that I mean you're fine bear I think Tina and Matt I'm totally fun it's a fucking spin in the game you pussies take a bet I got a bet I own Bitcoin that's my bet baby

make a bet with Matt I don't need to make a bet I make a bet Tina I don't do that see I don't read like hey I'm not a DGEN like you American Hottle I don't waste my goddamn Bitcoin Tina Tina Tina Tina

I'll give you a good deal I'll give you a good deal I believe that will be over 300k By the end of the year Nope not betting no Oh okay I'll tell you what You want to bet over 800K by the end of the year I'll take that bet

I'm not taking it I'm taking it I'm a good guy No because that's really I just between two and three That's easy But I gave you between two and three I'm not going to bet that

That's a dumb bet What about what about five What about Matt Odell's End of your prediction I'll take a bet over 800 But I'm not going to bet much I'll say 10,000 Okay so so

I think I know I don't bet listening Tina was lying to you His real number is 800K He's confident That my 800K will not hit

But he's not nearly as confident That your 500K won't hit Well it could hit Look look I have a different point of view than people And that's fine But I'm not

I don't bet. I'm already long Bitcoin. It's good enough for me. Anyway, I'm too old. I don't have the time to make it back. So you guys are much younger. I can't take that risk. I feel comfortable just owning my Bitcoin. I love owning my Bitcoin. I know. It's true. It's true, Tina. Like, you really don't, like, talk to people about, like, how much conviction you have about Bitcoin or, like, try and chill it to them in any kind of way. So, like, it makes sense that you have, like, a number that you hold to your.

I'm very shy about Bitcoin. It's true. And I'm quiet about Bitcoin. I never yell. The beautiful thing here is regardless of any of these predictions, all of our actions, other than if a bet was actually placed here, all of our actions,

it won't fucking matter anyways because all of our strategies are stacked sets and hold forever. as long as humanly possible, and which becomes when Bitcoin is just a Bitcoin standard. So regardless of predictions and back and forth, everybody here is going to be fine, even if Bitcoin scenario, like, if Tina's scenario plays out, or Odell and the rest of the panels blow off top scenario plans out,

plays out. It doesn't matter. It does fucking matter. It doesn't matter. I took a walk earlier today. I took two different walks, And all I'm thinking about while I'm walking is how to stack more sets. What can I do to stack more sets? That's all I think about.

All I think, all I think about is how can I stack more sets? What can I do that's not crazy that costs me money? I don't want to cost myself stats. So I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to lose sets. What can I do to make more sets? it's all I think about. I don't think about anything else except stacking sats.

It's really kind of pathetic for me, in my age. But that's all I think about. Somebody in the chat said, take a shot every time Matt slurs a word. I'm going to change that. I'm going to say smash by every time Matt slurs a word. But let's keep rolling here.

Adel, how's the sandwich? It was good. It was good. My wife made me a sandwich. That's fantastic. Fantastic. Cheers to that. Cheers to that. Hottles makes you cheap-o sandwiches. You know what I mean? Think about it. Okay. So we're not, we're not in consensus around our our uran price, price targets. The plebs are pretty bullish. It seems like everybody, everybody who, in here is like shitting on Tina. Sorry, Tina. Alex.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, people wouldn't shit on Tina if he didn't have a shitty fucking prediction. Like, he made, he made, he made, he made, he made his name. His name was supposed to be a bullish Tina. And then like, you're supposed to be a bullish guy, man. You let us down. You let us down. That's, that's fair. I'm scared. I am prepared to wait.

out your disappointment into 2022. That's great, dude. I appreciate your conservative investment. No, it's not conservative. It's not contributor. I am totally prepared. I am totally prepared to wait that out. I can handle that.

You know, I'm older than you, Matt. I'm older than all you guys. We're all aware of this, Tina. I am prepared to link that out. That's fine. And in 2022 and 2022, and you guys come to me and say, you know, I sold a bunch of Bitcoin at a,

at a 300k and I wish I didn't do that because now it's sitting at 700K and I own less. I am prepared to have a drink with you and help you feel better. Yeah, but I won't give you, but I won't give you fucking selling. I don't think any of us is selling no matter what.

Yeah, that's the thing. You're preaching to the wrong choir. That's, you're preaching to the people that will be selling at two, 300K when it peaks out. Listen, I, listen, I've been holding Bitcoin since 200. it's 62,000 now.

You think I'm a sell who goes to fucking 800,000? No. No. Because each coin is worth untold millions of dollars. Millions of dollars. Millions and millions.

Millions of dollars. Really? Trillions. Honestly, trillion dollars. And this, wait, wait. Are you buying?

Are you buying right now? Me? Yeah. Tina does not stack. Are you buying? I don't, I don't have an income. You understand.

Okay. So, So Tina's a bear. Matt is buying. Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, I think you weren't an... I just owe my fucking car. Matt, Matt is working, Matt is working five, five jobs to make sure that he fucking stacks as much as possible right now.

Because he knows, he knows, he knows we're fucking going up. Unless all of us, unless all of us are in a, if all of us are in a deep squat right now and sitting on chairs, then we can talk shit. But I see Are we sitting on chairs? I see a lot of American Hoddle just sold his car

So Matt That's true You got to level up to American Hoddle Fuck you man You stack some sets Oh great Awesome If you do have a car that

Seriously that has equity in it Go to fucking car My car is older than Bitcoin Fuck you. That's fine. If your car doesn't have more than like 20K in equity, that's fine, totally. But that's a stack and sats mobile. But if you have like decent equity in your car, like I was sitting around being like,

why the fuck is there $40,000 sitting in my car? Fuck that. You know, Bitcoiners should be able to go to a place without another person bringing them there. So like you should own a car. You should own a vehicle. Your vehicle should be cheap as fuck. so you can stack as many sets as possible. Get a 800.

No. What? Okay, I have a question here, and this is, I'm totally derailing the conversation, which was pristine and fantastic and not unhinged at all. Totally normal, but. And unfortunately, and what I meant to say fortunately, I'll be passing this to Matt O'Dell, the most sober of the bunch. But of what I will say, somebody was asking about Luke Jr., Luke Dash Jr.

And with Taproot, I don't know if you've been watching this, but basically they implemented speedy trial, which is like minor activation. If it fails, then it's just moot. Like, nothing's going to happen after three months. And then I haven't followed exactly, but Luke Dash Jr. just launched like another. version of the protocol, which could be like a like basically a user activated

soft fork in protest of speedy trial. Do you know what's going on here? Have you been up on this? Yeah, so he launched a user activated software client which anyone who is here for the last cycle

is aware of what that means. That means node runners force everyone else into wherever they want to go. The nice thing about this UASF is that it's after an MASF with some minor activated soft fork.

They have the option to signal first. If they don't signal after three months, then it goes into effect. So that's what's going on right now. People are freaking out. This is our advantage. Stay humble, stack sides. So is this, are people freaking

out because the what what luke dropped is not compatible with bitcoin core and it could like is that the deal it's only not compatible with bitcoin core if in like 12 months

or 18 months whenever the fucking it it it locks in if he doesn't have a threat if there's no threshold at that point then it becomes an issue but I I think it's

pretty safe. I think the lock-in is like October 2022 or something like that. So like if we don't have a lock-in on Taproot by October 2020, then I think most people would think like it's a miserable failure. Right? Yeah. So that that's basically the plan. The plan is you have a client that

sets it up. So if if Speedy Trial fails after three months, we have a client that automatically adds taproot in October of 2022. This is kind of the game theory that played out with Segwit 2X, right?

It was like if the miners can't fucking do it, then we do it ourselves, right? And some people seem to be shitting on Luke Jr. for even putting this out there, given that there seemed to be relative consensus on the way that they were rolling this out.

but I mean, I'm kind of all for it. Like for him to just roll this out and drop it and be like, hey, you know, if you guys can't get your shit together, then then people have further recourse to actually activate this. Like I don't think that's a bad thing. Like do you, Matt, do you think that's somehow a thread? Do you think that people are worried about this unnecessarily or do you think it's fine? I think some people should take it as a threat. And that's why it's important. I think that the way Bitcoin governance works is,

is, it's just all fucking chaos, right? And you just have people pointing guns at people's heads. And that's the beauty of Bitcoin governance, right? And that's where we are right now. Bittstein had that amazing tweet where it was all the guys from Reservoir dogs pointing guns at each other and just said, exactly. Yeah. That's where, that's where we are right now.

It's just like everyone's pointing guns at each other's heads. And like really, in practice, like the miners are going to fucking signal for this in the next three months. And none of this fucking matters. That's true. And it all comes down to if they don't, hypothetically. That's the beauty of speedy trial is like, let's just get this over with. Like, they're all going to fucking do it. Yeah, that's fair.

Okay. Okay, guys, guys. I have a family and a newborn and I do have to start rapping here. First, I want to say, holy shit, I can't believe that the panel even came together in the first place and shout out to all the Bitcoin Twitter plebs

that even made this materialize. And the people that, like, there's some of you that are sitting here that have been sitting here for damn near three hours. both as audience members and some as a mix of audience members and panelists and some just straight as panelists,

Hoddle I'm looking at you, made it all the way through here. It's been three hours of gradually degrading conversation through alcohol consumption. And so I thank you all for being a part of this. I'm going to go down the panel of everybody's who's here and get any final thoughts that they'd like to throw in. Hoddle, I will toss it to you first.

Any final thoughts that you want to toss in here? The two cardinal sins in Bitcoin are, number one, not being bullish enough on Bitcoin. That is a massive sin, and you will be punished for making that sin. Sin number two is falling in love with the shitcoins marketing. So if you're going to buy a shit coin, don't be the one that gets stuck holding the fucking bag thinking Dogecoin is actually going to meme itself to the moon. dump it for Bitcoin. See rule number one.

The end. Amazing. Let's toss it to Matt O'Dell. Before you give your final thoughts, I want you to let me know on a scale of, you know, a regular TFTC episode to the hoddle episode

to you drunk as fuck on top of the roof at Bitcoin 2019. How's it Yeah, how are you drunk? How drunk are you like right now? Like six. Six? Like a healthy six.

Okay. I don't know. Does that make sense? Is 10 the rooftop? I'm like, I'm like 40% of a Masichael bottle. That's okay.

Does that answer your question? Sure. I would say, I would say, in terms of drunkenness, I am enlightened. I'll take that. I'll take it. I will settle for that. Final thoughts. I want to thank you for having me.

I appreciate you for having me on here. I want to thank all the Rod and Die Freaks in the comments. You people complete me. I hope that most of you will join us in Miami, and they can meet you in person. That'll be fucking really cool. Unlike all these bears, I think we will be at least at 200k at that point.

They're all like, oh, you're going to be like, oh, we might just gracefully break 100K at that point. Okay, cool. I think we'll be significantly past that. And I look forward to doing that with you guys. I think by the end of this year, we will be comfortably over 400k.

I really think we'll be comfortably over 500K, but all of you guys are bearers. So I'm going to go with 400K because none of you guys will even fucking go that far. So I'll use a lower number. And I just, I think that it's very important that you people realize that the Michael Saylars of this world don't care about you.

Okay, the Dan Helds of this world are, Dan Held already has his automated tweet out for 9 a.m. tomorrow morning. And it's going to be like, retweet this if you think Bitcoin's better than gold. It's going to be some stupid fucking tweet. He doesn't care about you. All that matters is that you stay humble and stack sats. Okay. Like, don't care about the paid groups.

Don't care about the fucking paid education bullshit. and just take care of yourself because at the end of the day, your grandkids are going to ask you in 60 years, what the fuck were you doing? Were you listening to Sir Hoddle? You know, where you're getting your fucking stacks down

and make it happen? Like, just fucking do what needs to be done. And I just want to say that the Pleb Army is my people. And I've been accused many times of calling FUD, privacy Fudd, all this shit. I want you people to have your shields up.

Don't turn your back. Like war is brewing and we need to be ready. And when we're ready, we need our people to be ready. If our people aren't ready, we're fucked. So I appreciate all of you. You're my people. I love

you all. Stay humble, stack sats. Thanks, Ben. Yeah, no worries, man. And actually, I might get add one thing. I did, at the very beginning of this chat, I said, if Sailor is creating a dragnet on all of us, here are some links of tutorials to help you with privacy. Have you created any tutorials in regards to that that people might check out? Bitcoinprivacy.competriety.com Awesome. Bitcoinprivacy.comhead. Head there. Check it out now. I'm going to pass it to Alex. Any final thoughts here, dude?

I can imagine my day that shit was hilarious. Final thoughts. I mean, like I said before, until Bitcoin's at least, you know, since that parody, you know, we just need to keep fighting and fucking good fight. At that point,

we'll be able to start making, you know, more important moves, I think, in the real world. But, yeah, I just think nothing fucking changes. The mission is still the same. People need to just fucking continue

like I'm writing an article now called ending Fiat is fascist and communist, you know, Bitcoin's freedom and sovereignty and it's like if you're literally holding any of your wealth still in the fucking

slime that is the US dollar or any other fucking form of Fiat, you're just putting that corrupt broken, fucked up institution and we see how the time that you get the last 12th, 18 months.

So I just think you know, this is getting my Bitcoin isn't just an economic imperative. It's a fucking moral duty. If you want to have an impact on the world, get the fuck out of that game and come into this one.

It's, you know, have some self-respect for fuck's sake. I love it. Awesome. Thank you, Alex. And, uh, let's pass it to Tina Tina closing thoughts Bitcoin is the Ironman It is the Ultra of Ultra marathons

It is not a sprint It is not a short-term thing It is not a one-year thing It is for The win For your lives Bitcoin will be the one and only money Accepted by everyone everywhere

in 13 to 28 years. That's what's going to happen. Stack sets. Stay humble. Keep stacking. No one owns enough Bitcoin, except for possibly Michael Seller. What's the price of the end of the year?

Michael Sallel is, yeah. I'm thinking where it's going, and you're just not thinking far enough. What's the price to the end of the year? I don't know. I don't know what I don't care. Because I'm thinking 20, 24, 20. Tina, what's the price of the end of the year?

2020, 2030. Oh, what's the price of them in there? Higher. It's going to be higher. Too many people are going to lose too much Bitcoin because they think they know what they're doing and they can trade it. And you can't trade it. You're going to fuck it up and you're going to lose your Bitcoin. Don't do that.

You fucking bear. You're going to be higher. Yeah. Capsodell can. say whatever he wants, but I'm looking for the Ironman Ultra Marathon. You have so much conviction, you won't even tell us your price

for the end of the year. So much conviction. You have amazing amounts of conviction, and you won't even tell us the price. I have so much conviction. I don't need to tell you. You have so much conviction. The immense amount of conviction, you won't even tell us the price.

Cool. There are few people at my age with my conviction on Bitcoin. And frankly, there are a few people at your age with my conviction on Bitcoin. So that's what I will. What is your age at the end of the year? Were you tell us your age at the end of the year? I mean, 900 fucking years old. Okay. I'm going to cap it there. That's that's where. All right. Guys, 300 years of the last three. If you want to learn about Bitcoin, make comps paid course. It's the best. I love you, Ben. Thank you. Yes. Thank you guys.

I'm going to drop you guys out. Everybody. This was an absolute fucking dream of a show for me. Guys, like three hours in, the majority of this was spent at 26 or 2,700-odd people watching live. It only ever happened because the plebs on Bitcoin,

Twitter made it happen. Holy shit. thank you guys. I have a blast and I got to chat with like some of my favorite people ever. So damn, thank you guys. This has been an absolute joy. Maybe the Bitcoin Twitter plebs will help me stack another crazy show in the future. But hey, we will see. And regardless of the bearishness or bullishness of the people on the panel, I will say that the most bearish person there was like, 200 to 300K. I think we're doing okay, you guys.

I think we're all going to be okay. So I'm going to wrap up. I'm going to say thank you guys so much for watching and or listening if you are here listening on the pod after I upload this audio. As always, if you're on YouTube, hit like, subscribe, and share. I can't fucking say it enough. It helps so much.

Every time you do that, it pumps this in front of more people's eyeballs. Also, like, really smash that subscribe button. Share any of tutorials that help your friends not get wrecked on shit coins. You can do that all day long, and it's so fucking helpful. If you want to help with the show in another way, you can hit the sponsors I mentioned at the very tippity top of the show. Ledon, Cobo, BitRefil, and Bill Fottle, links all down below. and if you really loved what you saw and or heard, you can hit me up with a Bitcoin Lightning Network tip

at my tippin.me page, tip-p-I-N dot me, slash at BTC sessions. Without, with that, I am out. Cheers to everybody. And I will see you guys next time for your daily session. See you guys. Thanks a lot.