BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Nick Neuman, Lawrence Douglas, CJ Wilson, Cory Klippsten ep184

Episode Date: July 2, 2021

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Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another episode of Why Are We Bullish, best part of my week, favorite time of the week for me. We've got a killer panel today. We're going to be talking about a lot of different things. If you are watching right now, of course, smash that like button,

give this a share. Let's get a ton of eyeballs in here watching this. I'm very excited to have you all here. And of course, as always, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my good friend Bill here. We'll do it live. We'll do it live.

Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. All right, guys, let's get this thing rolling. As always, I am Ben with BTC sessions. This is your daily session. All right, before we bring in our panel, let's take a look at where we are in the.

market right now. We are sitting at $33,430 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 2,991 sats. 89.27% of all Bitcoin have been mined. We are on track for an estimated difficulty change of almost negative 28%. So if you've got transactions to be doing, maybe just hold off a little bit. That's in 34 blocks times 10 minutes. So not, well, times about 14 minutes right now. But regardless, if it's not an immediate need, maybe hold off a little bit.

Fees might be a little bit more favorable this weekend. Right now, next block, it'll be at 87 sats per bite, guaranteed next block. If you're willing to wait an hour, not much relief there is 64 sats per bite. So as I said, if you're moving funds around opening lightning channels stuff like that maybe do it over the weekend Sundays are probably a pretty good pick especially with this historic difficulty adjustment

now shout out to sponsors the show led not ao you can use your bitcoin for a variety of different services Bitcoin back loans if you're in a pinch and you need dollars and you don't want to sell your Bitcoin because you're a good little bitcoiner and you're worried about capital gains and you're worried about buying back in at a higher price could be an option for you check them out links are down below of course they got their savings accounts and their B2X offering as well. In Canada, Bit Buy, solid option for stack and sats. Of course, they have an easy to use web interface, a dedicated mobile app.

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if you're backing up your wallet be careful get it in steel don't put it on paper guys uh fire water damage all kinds of shady stuff can happen to your paper backup i use the bill bottle over at privacy pros and finally i just did an awesome interview with leishin lu from keystone formerly cobalt if you're curious about the name change and everything like that that happened there go check out that interview on the channel it's solid uh but as always if you want to check out the Keystone links for that are down below.

Let's get our panel up here. I'm going to close this down and start bringing them in. We got Lawrence. We got Nick. We got, you miss me up, dude, with your little down below.

We got Corey, here come Corey. And we got CJ. Guys, welcome to the show. I'm going to pass it down the line really quick and let you guys do a one-by-one intro. So I'm going to toss to Lawrence here.

Dude, can you introduce yourselves? introduce yourself, let people know who you are and what you do. Hey, what's up everybody? Thanks for having me, Ben. Lawrence Douglas, Ax Capia on Twitter. I'm the regular host of Black and Bullish every Tuesday, 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on Twitter spaces. Humble stat stacker and Linden, the best that I can to the Bitcoin education space,

because the education curve has to go before the adoption curve. Indeed, dude. I'm glad to have you. you'd run some quality spaces. So kudos to you for that. Let's jump down the line. Nick, can you let everybody know who you are, what you do? Hey, yep. So Nick's CEO at CASA, we are simplest, safest way to secure Bitcoin. And I got to say that that Bill O'Reilly clip, I just, I laugh no matter how many times I've seen that. I laugh every time. It's probably in the thousands at this point after college college.

It's so good. It's so good. I put it on before every live show. It will never go away. So I'm glad you like it. And I just, Nick, I did just get, I'm trying out the three of five multi-sig. So that's going to be a tutorial that I'm working on this month. Yeah, man. I'm glad to hear it. Awesome. CJ, let people know who you are, what you do. I used to play baseball. Now I stack sats. Thanks to Corey. I've been working with Swan for a little bit to try to try to stack some stats not only as a person, but as a business, as an entity. I'm kind of trying to bridge the gap between, I would say, traditional brick-and-mortar businesses and digital space with Bitcoin.

And thanks to Clubhouse for introducing me to so many people. And yeah, that's what I do now. Awesome, man. Glad to have you. First time on the show, too. So welcome. Actually, first time for everybody, except for Mr. Clipson here. Corey, can let everybody know who you are what you do? Well, I'm El Cisne, which means the Swan in Españo, which is very cool. This is like the year of Latin America, so I'm just playing along. No, I'm the founder and CEO of Swan Bitcoin and also the managing partner of Bitcoin or Ventures, which you can check out at Bitcoinerventures.com. We're just a syndicate cutting checks into great Bitcoin startups. But yeah, just working hard. Really Lawrence's message resonates with us because we focus so much on education.

And we always say, you know, the more you know, the more you buy. And you can't make an investment in Bitcoin without making an investment in education. Otherwise, you will sell the top and be a chump. I love it. Actually, you'll sell it. I'm sorry, you'll buy the top and sell the bottom, the opposite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll chase shiny objects and then get scared if you don't know what you're buying.

Yeah, 100%. And Nick, just heads up. Somebody in the chat said, Nick, very quiet. So eat the mic if you can. Turned up my mic volume. Is this sound better? Yeah, yeah. That sounds great.

That's awesome. Sweet. So gentlemen, this is why are we bullish? We go by the three R's super easy. Somebody's going to give a reason why they're feeling bullish. It can be anything that your little heart desires. We're all going to riff on that reason together and then we rotate to the next person. So I'm going to kick us off with something that I felt kind of interesting and cool,

mostly in the sense of what is kind of being done on top of Bitcoin now. So I'm just, I was talking about this on the news show yesterday, but I'm just going to pull up an article here. So from Coin Desk here, and they're talking about El Salvador working to a attract talent and innovation. And one of the things they started talking to talking about partway down is block stream satellite infrastructure kind of being added into the country to help with areas that may not have the best connectivity, which is great.

But then they start talking about building and potentially making government-issued bonds that relate to the mining with the geothermal activity within the country. So basically, volcano bonds issued by the government that would be issued atop the liquid side chain of Bitcoin. And so it's not that I'm necessarily clamoring to buy me some volcano bonds, although I do find it intriguing. It's more just the idea that people are brancing off and using. Bitcoin as this kind of base layer of truth and then anchoring to that and building really cool

stuff around it, kind of negating the need for other things. And as time goes on, we're seeing more and more interesting things being added to Bitcoin or through side chains or secondary layers of Bitcoin without the need for anything extra. And I like that development. I like kind of this cohesive, let's build out a solid foundation and then let's build cool shit on top or around Bitcoin with this as our base layer for value. So I guess what I want to do is toss it down the line and just get either your, if it's the first time hearing about this, your initial reaction to government-issue volcano bonds on a side chain of Bitcoin or just anything that you're finding interesting being built in and around. around Bitcoin that adds to the functionality of Bitcoin with this solid base layer. So I'll toss it over to, actually, you know what?

I'm going to open it up to the floor. Does anybody have any initial thoughts to this story? So I did read up on this angle a little bit and I paid attention to the article because I'm, as usual, I'm the last person quoted whenever there's an article like that. They always bury me at the bottom. But good company. Anyway, so I think it has to do with the cost of electricity in El Salvador because I think the national grid there is like nine and a half cents. So it's not really profitable unless you factor in something else where you're actually generating some surplus.

And I guess the ARB there is their cost of capital for borrowing that this is cheap. They think that they, I mean, it makes sense. You would actually be able to borrow money for volcano mining cheap. cheaper than the government's cost of capital. So that's where the arbitrage is. And that's what Adam and Samson and the team basically figured out. And they brought them that idea. So they think that's why it's interesting.

That's really cool. Are any of you guys plugged into this story as well? Do you like Lawrence, do you have thoughts on this? Yeah, I checked it out. I saw it go by on the timeline earlier, a little bit earlier on Twitter. And my initial take on it is I think it's always. overall positive. Like I said, I'm not excited about the bonds either. But once you see people starting to build and look for more options to put on top of Bitcoin, it adds legitimacy to the base layer. It means that a lot of people are seeing enough there where they're confident to, you know, kind of stake their projects and their reputations on something they can build on top of it. So for something that is so early, right, in its life cycle, it's very good to see so much legitimacy being attributed to it and seeing a lot of activity. people trying to build and create projects on top.

Yeah. And it would be. It's especially, sorry, go ahead. That it's, you know, it's kind of like the, the micro strategy bonds. And that it's a completely traditional finance instrument built on top of Bitcoin, which is cool. You start to see like the traditional finance system doing stuff on top of Bitcoin rather than them being completely separate systems. And I think that that's fun. And it's, it shows that the, the two worlds are becoming more.

integrated, which gives legitimacy to Bitcoin. I think the other thing that is interesting about this, and I would guess that this maybe is kind of similar to like the Blockstream mining note that they did, where they, it was kind of another mining-backed bond-like financial instrument. And I was listening to Adam Backtalk on Preston's podcast a couple of months ago, and he was talking about that node and basically I thought it was an interesting comparison of this type of financial instrument to what micro strategy is doing because micro strategy has just Bitcoin as the underlying asset but mining is a little bit less volatile on the upside and downside to Bitcoin

because they're they're locking in some of these some of their revenue and so that makes the bond instrument or the note a little bit less maybe risky or a little bit less volatile than what, you know, micro strategy is doing with holding the underlying. So, you know, I don't know enough to like really say much more beyond that. You know, I'm not that much of a bond expert, but I just thought that was interesting that that the mining was less volatile and provided a different type of backing than just pure Bitcoin. Yeah. And it's, I like your, uh, what you mentioned there too in terms of, hey, now, now you're starting to see traditional options being built at top Bitcoin. And I think we're kind of at that point where you're starting to see the beginnings

of that technology inversion, like when, you know, the internet was piggybacking on all the phone lines, and then all of a sudden all the phone lines are using the internet because it was just a more efficient method of doing such. I think you're going to see a lot more of this of, oh, we can do this so much faster utilizing either Bitcoin itself or like a layer of Bitcoin like with with what Jack has been doing with Strike and there's there's so many different angles to this. I don't know, CJ, if there's anything that you want to add into the thoughts and the conversation here. Yeah, I mean, I think when you when you start to add, you know, new systems to legacy systems, you see a blending aspect and just like genetics, you see like one side comes.

up, another side come up, and then there's a mixing where there's a little bit of a 50-50, and then eventually one side wins because it's more dominant. And at the end of the day, I think people believe that Bitcoin, all of us obviously believe we're bullish, that Bitcoin is going to overpower the existing networks. But they're going to have to do that by building new structures and, you know, it was funny because you said the three R's. I was like, okay, replace, restructure, rebuild. You know what I mean?

And if they're doing that better, because there's more people that are interested in participating in that because it's Bitcoin and it's not fiat dollars so people from South Africa or India or wherever can participate then they build it back better and Bitcoin creates that that gasoline for you know or fuel or whatever volcano fuel and and to me that's where you see that that sort of that blending actually is is in a way the step that we need to take right now and then eventually it'll it'll run faster but it's this is like we have to play the same game for a little bit until we get on the same cycle and then it's like oh wait whoop and then

you know, a bigger step, a bigger step, more stride length and then the race is won, you know, after that. Yeah, 100%. I want to bring up a comment in the chat from Zach here. He said, I think volcano bonds makes everyone nervous because of the echoes of the legacy financial system, but I'd rather see them angered to Bitcoin on the base layer than anything else. I think, yeah, it's a good point because, you know, everybody always kind of looks at legacy finance and just because of the nature of of our current system is inherently skeptical of it, which is excellent. I think here it's not so much talking about the product being offered on top of Bitcoin itself, but the fact that anything is offered on top of Bitcoin and it kind of anchors it to like

a layer of truth and a natural check where if you get too out of line, if you start doing too much crazy fiat financing, you basically have to pay the Piper at the end of the day if you get too ahead of yourself. There's that check in that there's no lender of last resort here. Sure, you could still have a lender of last resort in terms of dollars, but that only holds up so long as a Bitcoin standard moves forward. So, you know, we'll see. Like a few of us said here, we're not super stoked. to be picking up these bonds necessarily. But yeah, I do like the idea of building on top of Bitcoin and seeing what's happening there.

But we're going to round out this topic. We're going to keep it moving here. Everybody in the chat, thanks for being here. Of course, keep those messages coming. I'll try to bring them up when I see something relevant to the conversation. And smash that like button. Give this a share. Let's get more eyeballs in here.

And I'm going to toss it down the line to Lawrence. Lawrence, what has you excited or feeling bullish this week? I am bullish on the plebs, gentlemen. I'm bullish on the plebs. And the reason I am is because with what we're seeing and with the exposure of education and engagement through platforms like what Ben is doing here, Clubhouse, Twitter spaces, the baseline person that is involving themselves in Bitcoin is receiving a higher level of education.

They're moving a lot faster of that education. slash adoption curve. And then, you know, to kind of round that out, it's just like, I'll use, you know, I'll reference my man, Tomer, Strolight, on Twitter. I was in a space with him one day. And he was talking about the fact that there's a big difference between a Bitcoin investor and a bitcoiner. And we're seeing more Bitcoiners that are coming into this space than Bitcoin investors. You know, Bitcoin investors are people like you, man, Jim Kramer coming in. I got that I got Bitcoin. Pop gave me the orange pill. I'm really happy. I sold a bunch of of it and I took profit. You know what I mean? That's a Bitcoin investor. But Bitcoiners are, you know, they're stacking stats. They know that they're playing, you know, an accumulation of Bitcoin game and not a Fiat Gains game.

You know, so we're starting to get a lot of people that truly understand that. A lot of people that are really making moves to make sure that they are amassing as much Bitcoin as they possibly can. And they're getting good education. You know what I mean? So, oh yeah, shout out to the freaks to our HR. Of course the first. But, but yeah, man, you know, players, bit corners, whatever name we call each other by that

community is growing. It's growing a lot stronger and a lot faster than I think we've seen in a in years past. Yeah, I love I love that angle. I will echo that. I won't take up too much of the conversation here and I'll keep passing it down. But so true, I've seen so many people just bypass almost entirely the the road to ruin of chiquinery where they just start, you know, snapping up everything that costs a dollar or less with no concept of, what it is that they're buying just that, oh, it could be as much as Bitcoin someday. And so I think part of it comes from the consistency of narrative of Bitcoiners, of the long-term outlook and kind of like the general ethos of the group.

Obviously, everybody is a little bit different in what their goals are. But I think there's a general consistent ethos of bit coiners of low time preference and truly understanding what you're doing before diving in. But I digress, and I'll toss it to the rest of the panel. Does anybody else have thoughts on what Lawrence said here around education? Yeah, I think, you know, the first thing I thought of is, is the people that are coming in now, or a little bit later than the people that came in six months before that

or six months before that or whatever. And every couple of weeks, every couple months, there's more people that are, I would say, taking up the mantle in their own city, in their own town, and their own group of friends. and you develop this like sort of diversity of voice, diversity of participant, but then the narrative is the same, meaning Bitcoin only, stack sats, stay humble, that type of stuff. And so the more that word spreads in that direction, then people start digging down the rabbit hole and they find all this great content that's already been put out there by yourself, Ben, by, you know,

they find they find, they find, they find, they find, they find, they find, they find, they find, his, spaces, they find all this material that's there. And it's like discovering old albums from your favorite band. They're like, oh, I love this sound. This is awesome. This is so raw. And then they find like a 2012 video of Antinopoulos. He's like, okay, so this is the thing with transactions.

And they're like, this dude's a wizard. You know what I mean? But it's like when you get that guy first, you know, it's a little bit more. You're like, okay, I'm not sure. Let me check this guy out. And if it's one of your friends from school that's like, you know, had some success in other things, then you're able to sort of like get a little bit more of a pleb on pleb, you know, commonality, fluency. And I think that's where you get this elasticity.

It stretches and all of a sudden it goes, bam. And then the knowledge just comes up, comes real tight. And then people stop making those mistakes that maybe we all made when we first got into it or were tempted to make at least. You know, I think I can I can speak for myself and say that I definitely dabbled when I got in because I was like, oh, the market's 24-7. This is awesome. I got all this other shit going on. This is amazing. And then eventually I was like, this is stupid.

This is a waste of time. I just need to wait. And that, for me, was self-education. And a lot of that was because I started to, you know, I don't know, I guess clubhouse, things like that. I started discovering these kind of regular people, not just some guy that wrote a book that is kind of hard to relate to on a personal level. Yeah.

100%. How about Nick? What have you been seeing in terms of education? Well, I think you guys have already kind of touched on it, but just like a different way to say it is that Bitcoin's marketing machine is getting more and more decentralized, like the Bitcoin network. And that's critical for Bitcoin's success. I mean, you have, like you were just saying, CJ, people in different neighborhoods

in their own kind of cities and their own pockets of friends being the Bitcoin evangelist. And so it goes from, you know, being, I'm going to Bitcoin Twitter to learn about Bitcoin to there's a ton of resources out there where people can learn. And I think that's critical because there's only so many people that can be reached by Twitter. And we have to be finding these other avenues to be educating people about Bitcoin. And so I think that the work that all of the new content creators and educators are doing as they learn about Bitcoin themselves and then share that out with the community is really important. And it's cool that it matches the Bitcoin network itself. There isn't somebody sitting there coordinating everybody's marketing efforts around Bitcoin.

You know, everybody is feeding off of each other, picking up on these memes, and they're making an effort that is winning the war here to get people actually educated on Bitcoin. But it's not centrally coordinated, which is cool to see. Yeah, it's fantastic. Now, Corey, I saw you say something the other day that I loved, that basically education is your marketing. You guys are basically like that is your marketing is going out and educating people and showing them how and why Bitcoin is important. And on top of that, I wanted to say that being at Bitcoin. Bitcoin 2021, basically all of the stuff that was happening in the Swan Dome should have been main stage.

It was fantastic. So I got to give a kudos. I know you weren't physically there, but I got to give a kudos to the team at Swan because everything that was happening in and around your dome was solid. And hats off to you for all of the education you guys are doing. But maybe you want to touch on kind of your tactic with all the education. Yeah, well, I mean, honestly, the whole squad did such a good job and there were so many volunteers outside of our team just helping out and doing cool things and of course all the speakers and everything. And yeah, it was kind of like a, from what I could tell and from what I've heard, it was a lot like Bitcoin 2019, like a little bit smaller and only the diehard bit pointers that would show up in a bear market or like in early stages of a bull market kind of hanging out there.

so and it seemed like it was well received. All those videos are up now, by the way, so you can go to YouTube.com slash swan signal, and there's a playlist of all the panels and speakers that were in the swan dome those couple days. So that's pretty neat. Yeah, man, I think, you know, we built a product for the plebs,

and we decided that our marketing would essentially be pleb driven, that we would just put out education and kind of trust that plebs would tweet it out and talk about it and join tells. telegram groups and spread it. And, you know, our goal was to be the most recommended way to buy Bitcoin. And so it was PLEB's strength that gave me the confidence to start the damn thing in the first place. So, yeah, I'm very bullish on PLEBs.

And it seems like that thesis has borne out. And it's great to see, you know, there's a lot of companies now that I think are recognizing that your marketing is kind of built in. If you do the right thing for Bitcoin, then, you know, the community will, recognize that you're doing that and that it's not it can't be faked and uh you know you're not you're not going to hurt for exposure you know yeah and if you have some marketing budget that's cool but uh you know you can also kind of rely on some level of organic reach and sort of spread just by always doing the right thing for bitcoin and bitcoiners yeah 100% um it's it's awesome to see

how many solid educators and how many, you know, people that used to be just like the Bitcoin guy in their group of friends have stepped up and become the Bitcoin guy in like another mode online helping out the nobs that stumble through the door. So yeah, Lawrence, great topic. Very bullish on the plebs. Everybody in the chat, of course, smash that like button. gives us a share, keep those comments coming. PLEBs teaching new plebs patiently. Indeed. Teach fellow plebs with a low time preference in mind.

Think of the end game. You don't need to get there all at once in a single sitting. Think of the steps along the road to a solid bitcoiner. And just take one of those steps and start there. Guys, we're going to roll it along to the next topic. So I'm going to toss it down to Nick. And Nick, can you please let us know, what has you feeling bullish this week?

Yeah. So my bullish feeling for this week comes from the NIDIG NCR announcement. So NIDIG and NCR did a partnership and just announced this where 650 banks in the U.S. will be able to offer Bitcoin purchases and holding to their customers. So it's not like this is the J.P. Morgan kind of guys. it's smaller regional banks and credit unions. So they're actually reaching into some of these smaller communities that may not be getting as much exposure or education,

you know, talking about that side of things to Bitcoin. And so this is going to expose people to Bitcoin in a way that feels really natural to them. They're already using their bank app, and they can get some Bitcoin through that. But what actually gets me really bullish about this isn't just, you know, bring in 24 million people or whatever to Bitcoin exposure. It's once these people start down the Bitcoin rabbit hole from, hey, I just bought some Bitcoin through my bank, the next step or maybe a few steps down, you know, is what is, okay, I just bought some Bitcoin. What does it mean to really own that Bitcoin and to take control of my keys?

and to totally cut this bank out and to be owning my own money, holding my own keys, and be the only one that's in control of my destiny there. And I think that as people learn about that, we'll see what's happened time and again with people that start out buying on Coinbase and move to holding it themselves. It's a natural path and progression for everyone.

And I tweeted this out yesterday or the day before, basically saying the internet has constantly pushed control to the edges of civilization. It gives people more control. So, you know, home sharing gave people the ability to be their own hotel. Ride sharing gives people the ability to be a taxi. It basically cuts out some of these central places. And Bitcoin and self-custody give people the ability to be their own bank. and when people get exposed to Bitcoin through this partnership with NIDIG and NCR, I think they're actually going to take the path to eventually get into the point where they are becoming their own bank. They're cutting out the bank altogether, but the bank in the first place is the one that's helping introduce them to it.

So that's what made me bullish this week, and I think it's exciting, not just for Bitcoin, but for self-custody. Awesome. I love that. I have a question for the rest of the guys in the panel. How quick do you think banks capitulate to allow withdrawal of this type of stuff? I know obviously right now, NIDIG is like they're custodian, but like do banks then look at this and say, do we see a capitulation much like we saw with Robin Hood and PayPal and Venmo where they're going and realizing, oh, people want to use this? And how many times does it take of somebody buys Bitcoin through their bank, through their banking app, and then sees that they can pay with Bitcoin online and then tries to do it and realizes they don't really yet have the Bitcoin?

How much of that is there before people start going, huh, what did I do wrong here? Keep in mind that one of the things, especially when you think about the community banks and the credit unions that NIDIG has targeted. I think this is their third one of these sort of like, you know, tech layer partnerships. They had Q2 a couple weeks ago, and there was one three or four months ago back as well. Fraud is a huge deal.

And so when you first start out, knowing that there's no withdrawals and that you can't mess around with like, you know, getting into somebody's account and then canceling out that payment, but, you know, taking the bearer asset and spiriting it away, it's not the worst thing in the world for these new players to get comfortable with it

knowing that they can't essentially be defrauded because the Bitcoin's under custody. So it's not just because they want it to show up in the balance forever. Some of it is just like a staging thing with some of these guys. Do you think that is fraud as big of a deal when the bank is holding the money that they're using to purchase the Bitcoin? Like if they were going through ACH, maybe that's a difference. Yeah. It's a good question.

I don't know, but I know if you let somebody withdraw Bitcoin to an address and then you've got to think about the IT security of some community bank in Podunk, Ohio or whatever, and, you know, having installed malware and then having it like switch to Bitcoin address or whatever, there's a million different things that could happen. You could take over somebody's machine and then just have them, you know, go into their bank account if they own Bitcoin and then, you know, withdraw to your own Bitcoin address if you're a hacker. I mean, I'm not. that this feels like a staging thing. Well, like they'll get to it, I think. I think also you have to think you have to look at it like the, the centralization of banks in general.

There's a lot of honeypot aspects of the data there, right? And so whether it's Bank of America or a community bank or whatever, they have to really like educate people on a security standpoint, you know. And that's kind of what Corey's talking about, I think where you see these, these layers to like, someone can't screw themselves over if there's a 30 day waiting period. It's like a handgun, right?

Like you can't just go in and buy a handgun in certain places because they're like, okay, you're probably doing this because you're mad. So, you know, there's an aspect to that where if you protect people from themselves, then you might save a couple of them that would have ruined themselves or just have shitty security or whatever. But I think eventually what happens is people stop living on credit cards, you know, and they stop living on loans and they start going after, you know, a little bit more humility with their lifestyle. And that's when Bitcoin really takes over. I mean, Bitcoin doesn't have to be totally number go up for that to happen.

If that does happen for some people, they'll obviously start spending more money or whatever. But I don't think people are necessarily going to quit their jobs if they have, let's say, a quarter of the Bitcoin and Bitcoin goes up to, you know, $200,000. I don't think that that creates the job quitting thing. I think that just creates a confidence thing where it's like an IPO and a stock. If you're able to buy a really good stock as a traditional investor, then, you know, you're going to feel great about your move and you're going to feel confident and maybe stress a little bit less and maybe learn a little bit more about how money works. And I think that's what I've seen from a lot of

people as I have a lot of salespeople at my dealership that I've onboarded and Orange Pilled. And, you know, they started buying Bitcoin when Bitcoin was like $12,000, 15,000, something like that. I'm like, guys, this is going to go nuts. Just go for it. Just put $1,000 in. They did. And some of them, you know, really started educating themselves because I would send out links. I run like a WhatsApp group with all my employees and I put stuff out for them. But I think in general, it gets back to that other thing where there's going to be a big blending period. And none of us know how long that blending period is going to be between traditional finance and Bitcoin finance and the Bitcoin world and Bitcoin accounting and all that stuff. Because it's such a, it doesn't exist.

It doesn't really exist yet for a lot of people. There's still so few people that are actually able to live like that right now. And everybody else is living credit cards, paycheck to paycheck. And those people are going to take a little bit longer to start acting more responsibly. or think about unbanking themselves, you know, to go back to that point. Are people ready for this? What do you think, Lawrence? They could be, you know what I mean?

The thing I like, one thing we've, I think we've seen throughout history is that, you know, access typically equals progress. So, like, once people get access to something, things start to progress and kind of move along. And the thing I like about this that might shorten the time frame in which we find people looking to withdraw and custody their own coins is that we're dealing with smaller, more regional, more community oriented banks, which means the people that come in early will probably be more likely be,

you know, kind of on the earlier part of the adoption curve. And they're gonna be clamoring for that kind of functionality. So since the banks are smaller, I think that lends itself more to them not, you know, I guess, you know, leaning over to the pressure of what the people want bigger, better than you would see with like big national banks because they're gonna have to need masses of people

to ask for these things before they even start to consider. So I think it's got some problems. I think whatever that time frame is, I think that might push it toward the lower end of that spectrum. I have one more question on this topic. I'll just put it out to everyone's answer. Do you actually think that people migrate from something like this to self-custody? Does that become a meaningful number of these people that gets started this way?

And is that, or do they just stay there? Did they just say I'm comfortable? I'll talk there. Absolutely, I think so. I think so. And it doesn't have to be everybody either, but it has to be some substantial, you know, intransient minority that takes full ownership and becomes self-sovereign by owning their own coins. It's okay if it's not everybody. We need people to support the price. And some of those coins can be at Nideg or Gemini or Coinbase or Anchorage or wherever. And that's fine or on exchanges. But it's important that a lot of people do hold their own coins. people want control I mean we people want control over what matters most of them and so when they they understand that

they can have an entirely different level of control over their money than they ever have before people people want that and we see this in our own business regularly people coming off of Coinbase for the first time where they're saying hey I

I didn't feel comfortable self-custodying before I like what you guys have done and feel comfortable now. I want to get my stuff off of Coinbase. And we ask him why, and it's either I want control or I'm worried about security. And they're kind of two sides, like it's the fear side and it's the empowerment side, two sides of the self-custody coin. But it's a well-worn path from using a custodian to self-custody.

And I think that that will continue. Lawrence, you were going to say something too. Yeah, along those same lines, you know, I do think the majority of people, if they do go into allowing a bank to custody, I think those will tend to stay there. You know, and for me, I always think that that's the biggest, you know, would be a tag vector for Bitcoin down the street, you know, is if too many people allow these centralized entities to hold their coins and then puts us in a potential 60102 situation. So that's why once again, the education is so important. But once again, I think for the early adopters, those are people that, that will. likely be more susceptible to the orange feeling of not your keys, not your coins. You might want to make a move.

You know, but once again, I don't think that narrative is going to come from the bank. It's going to come from, you know, the established Bitcoin community. And, you know, once again, hopefully we can get enough people to understand. It's got up a better way to do this, you know. Call Nick up and do it yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I can get on board with that. All right, everybody.

We're going to round out this topic and keep it rolling. Everybody in the chat, thanks for continuing to drop those comments. I see Wook Chui is feeling bullish because he's starting from scratch and creating generational wealth. So kudos to you, dude. We're going to keep it rolling. Everybody that's watching, smash light, give this a share. Let's get some more eyeballs in here. And we're going to jump down to CJ.

And easy question, man. What has you feeling bullish this week? Hamster coin speech from Brad Sherman has all the points. and the whales pissed, sharp, and ready to do something. And I love it. I absolutely love it. The thing is, right, when we get, when the commentary about, you know, Cyber Hornets or whatever, every time something happens that gets everybody on the same page, granted, like we're talking

about decentralized or whatever, but decentralized doesn't mean we're doing different things. It just means we're in different places, right? We could all have the same idea and point the same direction. We're just spread out, like Fight Club. or Project Mayhem. And I'm seeing this stuff and I'm like, I'm hearing people get political about things that I never would have assumed would be political about anything.

I'm having people like argue about like what we should do about it. Like it's not just like, okay, this guy's an idiot. Like Charlie Munger, we're like, okay, he's an idiot. Like he's just saying stupid shit. We just need to get rid of him and just stop putting a mic in his gullet. But Brad Sherman, who's like a sitting, Congress guy comes out there and says, Dogecoin and Ethereum.

He's like saying all this crap, this nonsense. I'm like, we're going to do something about this, you know? And it gets everybody so wound up. It's great. I love it. It's funny because so anybody that didn't see it, basically he was saying that the biggest threat to Bitcoin is Ethereum. The biggest threat to Ethereum is Dogecoin.

And the biggest threat to Dogecoin was hamster coin. And he just went on this rant. And then he was talking about lottery tickets. He said, he said, I'd rather have people buying California lottery tickets. I'd rather have people buying California lottery tickets. And I'm like, what the hell is this? This is like the stupidest thing. Let's talk about incentive to save, right?

Let's talk about responsible living. And, you know, it's nuts. And so there's a lot of us that have started talking. And a lot of us are angry. And when you get angry clubs together, cyber hornetting on the side, like there's, you know, I think there's going to be some results from that at some point. There was. Yeah, I'm sorry, I was going to say, I'm bullish on CJ moving down to

Burbank and primary. By the way, feel free, DM me if you want to be added to the unseat Brad Sherman Telegram Group. It's very active. There's real planning going on. We're going to get in touch with the, there's two primary challengers so far. And we're going to get in touch with them and try to orange pill them

and choose one to back. That's not a joke. I mean, back to the 30s. Real activism. Right across. Yeah, this is real, real activism that, Corey, posted this in one of these other telegram groups who were in. And so it's like we're sending each other, you know, messages and ideas and planning.

It's actually getting, it's getting pretty lit because you have a lot of really smart people in Bitcoin, right? And if Bitcoin becomes the same issue vote for people, you know, watch out. If it gets narrowed down and you guys have somebody that you think is solid, let them know that I would love to have them join a panel sometime. Let that, they can let me know why they're bullish. I think that'd be solid. Let's go, Erica. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing her name right. It's A-A-R-I-K-A.

Awesome. CJ, I was going to say in regards to the Sherman rant, I really liked the clapback. I can't remember the name of the representative that was there, but he basically dismissed everything he said, and he said, hey, certain members here, if they're going to be talking about buying lottery tickets instead of this or suggesting that we should ban something just because people can have their

value, their purchasing power go up and or down. Everything should be banned. Then it's just insane. And then he also went down the road of saying, because obviously Sherman always mentions that it's only used for criminals. And then this representative also said that 99.9% of all fiat money laundering goes unprosecuted. So he basically threw out the entire argument dropped by Sherman and it was a beautiful thing to behold. Well, and yeah, one of the other things that Sherman said was like,

oh, you know, we should do what China is doing. And if you, if you're a any kind of an American patriot at all, and you see all the bad things that China has historically done with human rights, and you have a sitting Congress member who always talks about human rights and like, you know, racial and religious equality and all this stuff. And then you have a country that's literally like genociding people. And, you know, he's like, we should do what they're doing. It's like, what is happening? Like what?

And that reaction that like, that instant like, you know, someone jumps out from behind a corner and it goes like, ah, you instantly just want to punch them. I think that's what it's creating that gag reflex, that attack reflex in the cyber hornets, which is cool because we need to have that sort of test every once in all to make sure that our defense systems are up, that our auto immune system is high. And I think he's just going to make us all stronger as a result of this. And that's why I'm super bullish. Yeah. It adds credence to the whole Bitcoin critics have no good arguments because he has no good

arguments. And I think even outsiders looking in now look at this and go, that's, that seems stupid. But what was funny also is like, I don't know who scheduled the order of the speakers. but they can't have been a mistake to deliberately sandwich him in between two people that were just going to completely destroy all his points. It was Warren Davidson, one of the most local Bitcoin supporters that came up right after him. And he just like, he wasn't even planning to attack the stuff that Brad Sherman said. It didn't sound like, but he just had to and he extemp destroyed it for a couple minutes.

And then he had some other things that he had planned to say. But yeah, it's pretty funny. I don't know how Brad Sherman is on. like a subcommittee focused on entrepreneurship. That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard in my life. You can't possibly design an Android less entrepreneurial than that guy. Yeah, it's, it boggles the mind. But hey, you know, every generation needs their own Krugman.

And, you know, we've got, we've got a Krugman and we've got a Sherman. And a monger. Don't forget we have a monger. And a monger, yes, yes, absolutely. But hey, history will look back and paint things as they were. He absolutely loves Chinese rat poison. He thinks is a nice bread. I did see that.

He was a big fan of that. Let's keep it rolling here, guys. Yeah, you know, the Sherman thing is hilarious. There was plenty of other meltdowns this week in regards to trying to tax every single Bitcoin transaction anywhere it went. Other people proposing, oh, we need the ability to reverse Bitcoin transactions. Good fucking luck on that, buddy. There's a lot of garbage out there this week.

And we'll just add it to the pile of bad Bitcoin takes and continue pumping up blocks right now every 14 minutes, but soon to be every 10 minutes again. So, yeah, that's where we're at. And we're going to keep this thing rolling. We're going to move on to our final topic. Of course, everybody in the chat, keep those messages coming. We see Munger loves China. Holy crap. Holy crap, he does, man.

Fisher J. And yeah, we're going to keep it rolling. Smash it like button. Give this a share. And let's toss it to Corey. Dude, what has you feeling bullish this week? I am bullish on bitcoins who have come in over the last, you know, 18, 24 months that never got to really hang out in person with other bitcoinsers. And in some ways, it's probably

been a bit of a blessing because if you're actually restricted to not being able to go to a meetup and take that, you know, you kind of like knocked out your your Bitcoin quota for the week if you go to like a single meetup. But if you don't have that opportunity, you can't sort of say, you can't scratch the it. You can't satiate your desire for Bitcoin. And so instead, for the last 18 months under like various stages of lockdown around the world. It's been insanely active, the consumption of media, the production of media, people trying to find ways to help out with anything and everything. I mean, I'm sure it's, I've obviously seen it in my own company and then in our educational efforts or Bitcoin Clubhouse, Cafe Bitcoin, whatever, you know, nobody's wasting

time on commute and nobody had anything else to do for the most part. And so they just threw it all into Bitcoin and there's no friction to getting there and there's no expectation that you would prefer to meet a group of people in person versus like jump into some online forum or you know a YouTube chat or you know Bitcoin TV or whatever and so everybody's just engaging all the time and spreading knowledge and recruiting new bitcoins so it's just been and now we graduate and now we we come out of lockdown little by little and the conference was you know kind of a big start of that And now, you know, as some of the Angelenos in the audience and CJ know, like the LA meetups and hangouts are starting up again. I had my first like lunch with a bitcoiner in freaking 16 months or something this week.

And it was awesome and smashed a giant margarita and talk to Bitcoin. It was great. So I'm just, I'm bullish on that. You know, I think a lot of people only know Bitcoin as something that happens online. And I just think they're going to be, you know, you know, you know, euphoric as you as you could see exactly love that I'm going to read it myself thanks for pulling that up go ahead be then yeah uh wuk chui I met a bitcoiner in 2019 and I was like are you real that's yeah I think that's that's how a lot of people feel the first time that they meet somebody that's into Bitcoin in person it's kind of like a like you said you get it's all pent up inside and it's only access through a keyboard and

then it's just like you sit down with this person and you just explode bitcoin at each other as you like try to get all of the interaction that you've been missing out and like this this past year and a half i mean i felt it when i got to miami for bitcoin 2019 it was insane it was insane just like the the vibe of the place it didn't matter what the hell the price was it was just everybody was just vibrating, excited to just chat Bitcoin and see people in person. And I got to give a shout out to somebody in the comments here, Adventure Drive, aka Russ. He has been running a solid Bitcoin-only meetup in Calgary for quite some time. Y, Y, Y, C, Bitcoin.

I'm going to the one next Tuesday. So if anybody watches this and you're in Calgary, check them out there. On meetup.com, there's Y, Y, C, Bitcoin. So anyways, I won't keep yammering here. But just open to the panel, what's everybody think about, you know, kind of the lockdowns and everything that happened in terms of what it did for Bitcoin is. Do you think it drove, you know, further and deeper dives down the rabbit hole than would normally have been taken by a regular person? And do you think that now that things are opening up, there's going to be kind of an explosion of activity around this? Is that what we're seeing?

Can I add one more just final thought? Yeah. Because I was going to close it before what's quote came up. But it was also that, you know, pre-cointers and no-cointers and alt-cointers, as they meet bitcoinsers in person, are going to find out how kind and welcoming and nice bitcoinsers are when it's not on Twitter. Totally different. Yeah. It's a total, it's a night and day thing. Like, I mean, I might not, you know,

hug one of the brainless Dow guys, but like I'm not going to be rude to them in person, you know, like they're just humans. Bankless, sorry, bankless Dow. Yeah. Well, what's everybody else think? Anybody else that chime in? No, I agree.

I think just speaking from personal experience, the amount of consumption that I had between, you know, reading, listening to podcasts, watching videos, you know, participating in Clubhouse chats, Twitter, shit posting, you know, Niro Rabini or ship posting Peter Schiff or whatever. I think like you go through this adoption cycle where you have a certain amount of hours you have to put into something to really get it. And when you take away a lot of options, right, you can't do this, you can't do that, can't go to the movies, you can't do any of these things. So if you're seeing movies once a week, that's two hours, right? So now you

don't have two hours to see movies. You've got to do two hours something else. And you're like discovering Bitcoin in this price action. You're like, this is fascinating. I want to learn more about that. So I think like there's this this element like Corey's talking about with the word he was looking for was satiating, right? That's where you don't get, you're not, you're never full because you don't get that finish. And you know, you don't get the Bitcoin dessert of the high five or the knuckles or like the hug or the group photo or whatever. So it's just like these people that you meet. And when it's on a strictly academic or mental basis, then you just focus on that. It's like a long distance relationship where you just really get to know something because there's no other like there's, there's no

fornicating you can't mess around right you can't touch anybody so it's like this this element of you're just you're just keeping it mental and and that allows people to dive super super deep on all of this content that's out there yeah 100% how about uh lawrence or nick yeah for me i think it had a major the lockdowns had a major effect on bitcoin and i think that's because a lot of people for a lot of people the jig was up you know i tell people a lot that i think one of the few positive effects of this whole lockdown thing was that it caused people to massively slow down and start to pay attention to what was going on around them. So I think people started to kind of notice about, where does $6 trillion really come from? And why am I getting this check in the mail? And how are

they able to do that, right? So that kind of sends people down that rabbit hole of what inflation is, what it does, what the adverse effects are of when money printer go burr, right? And all these things send people through that education movement when they start to realize, oh, shoot, I got to do something to outrun inflation. And the reason I say that is because literally that's what happened to me. Like for me, it was like, hold up, what is really going on here? You know, and then it causes you to understand that some kind of action has to be taken. So yeah, I think that's what caused a lot of people to start to understand. And then from the education point, when you're taking that story and you're sharing that with somebody, it's a lot easier to see when you show them the

freaking money supply and the line is going straight up. Like, it's real easy to say, you see all this right here, okay, okay. This isn't natural. It's a little bit easier to make people understand something is going seriously wrong here and you might want to do something to protect yourself. Yeah, but Professor Plum says it's just the government moving money from their savings account to their checking account, so it's okay. And all inflation is transitory. It won't be here very long. Oh, man, Nick, how about you? No, I agree. I think the combination of people have a lot more time to research and you have the government doing what it did. It was a perfect storm. But then back to Corey's point, it's fun to get in person again and be able to meet some of these people that you've

been talking to on Twitter. Bitcoin 2021 was really fun, especially when people are like, hey, are you Nick? I'm like, wow. Yeah, we talked on Twitter like a year ago. So yeah, it's a great time meeting people in person. You can't beat it. Yeah, 100%. Um, I, I, I love this angle. Yeah, I think that we're going to see a lot of exciting stuff coming up. I think I'm going to round it out here. And, you know, we're coming up on the hour. I'm conscious of time.

So I want to round it out by just going down the line one last time really quick. One, any closing thoughts that you might have. And two, since we're on the topic, we've been talking a lot about education, meetup, stuff like that. if you have a recommendation of a place where people can either go to a meetup or get some solid education online, where would you send them? And then other than that, just remind people where they can find you. So let's start with Lawrence here. Any final thoughts and any recommendations in regards to Bitcoin education?

Yeah, final thoughts are, man, you know, education is absolutely key. I know that there have been many great debates in a lot of spaces and on Twitter about the whole toxicity part and the immune. response to be very clear in my opinion. Toxicity has absolutely no place in the education space of Bitcoin. And then if I'm going to send somebody somewhere, quite honestly, I'm going to send them what we call on Twitter spaces across the street to Clubhouse, to my man Big Lamar, that black Bitcoin billionaires. The tone that they strike when educating people, to me, is unparalleled in the space.

They're patient. They meet people where they're at. And I think that's a really, really good resource for people, particularly new folks to get their baseline education in Bitcoin. And then, of course, you know, catch me on Twitter. That's pretty much where I'm centric in the online space. And like I said, I do my black and bullish every Tuesday, 2 pm. 5p, 2P.

Pleasure meeting out, you gentlemen. This was awesome. Yeah, dude, thanks for being here. By the way, I will say before we get to everybody else, all of their Twitter handles are linked in these show notes. So if you want to follow these guys and see what they're up to, then check them out. But let's toss it to Nick. Final thoughts, recommendation on Bitcoin education, and just let people know where they can find it.

Final thoughts are just that it's pretty incredible after having been in Bitcoin for a few years now to see just every piece of the Bitcoin machine in motion and humming along, whether it's people, whether it's traditional banks adopting Bitcoin for their customers or people building traditional financial instruments on top of Bitcoin with the volcano bonds or education all across the marketing spectrum from every person in the community. You know, it's just, the machine is humming and it's an exciting time for Bitcoin right now. So where would I recommend for education or meeting people? I'll second Lawrence on black Bitcoin billionaires.

Those guys know what they're doing and they are awesome. They're super friendly and approachable. explaining things like at the basics and Lamar is great at it. He just brings people up on stage on Clubhouse, ask any question they want, and he's an amazing educator. So I 100% agree there. And for a meetup,

if you're in Denver, come to the Denver Bitcoin meetup. Is that Denver Beerco? I think there's one coming up next Tuesday, maybe. And there's a pretty big group of Bitcoiners that come every time. So it's a lot of fun. Awesome. Awesome.

And again, Nick's Twitter handle is down below and CASA. You guys can check them out too. I'll have a video on the multi-six setup in the next few weeks here. CJ, any final thoughts, suggestions for education, and where can people find you? My thoughts, I met Corey through Cafe Bitcoin on Clubhouse, a member of the Black Bitcoin billioners as well. Listen to that. I got a chance to meet Big Mar in Miami. I was super psyched because I feel like he does such a good job of being inclusive.

I think for meetups, you can go to Bitcoin-only.com, and you can see local meetups in different cities. And I encourage anybody that lives in one of these cities or is within two or three hours to drive to one of them. You'll meet amazing people and stay in touch, you know, and you'll go further and further down that rabbit hole together. And then you'll be inspired maybe to start your own meetup like I have been. Awesome, awesome. And then let's just toss it to Corey last. Final thoughts. Bitcoin, I know a solid Bitcoin education spot, but take it away, man.

Yeah. Well, definitely still always like to show my favorite intro book to Bitcoin, which remains Jan's book, Inventing Bitcoin, which, you know, luckily enough, I recruited him to join and we get to give it away for free. So you can grab that at swanbikwine.com slash free book. also have been really enjoying the explosion of content coming out of your fellow Canadian Tomer Strolight who was mentioned earlier. He's just been on fire for the last three or four months.

We put together a little ebook of all his, I think 20 or 25 of his essays from this year, which is at swanbitcoin.com slash yBitcoin. So you can grab that for free as well. And I absolutely love that. Yeah, it's been amazing to see the rise of audio. conversation because it is just so much more human and so much more giving and sort of loving unless bitcoin Tina is confronting a shirk-coin but um you know uh yeah it's been great i uh i learned a lot about about clubhouse and how it works uh hanging out with mar and you know

we definitely learned a lot from from how great they did cafe bitcoin i just checked it it just ticked over a hundred thousand followers which is amazing since we started it i think on Christmas or actually didn't even get the club until the beginning of January. So that's pretty amazing. There are rooms every week in 10 languages and basically every big event. You know, if Hester Pierce or some congressman or whatever is going to come speak on Clubhouse, it usually is happening in a cafe Bitcoin room. So that's been pretty awesome to see that kind of develop and grow. And, you know, yeah, I started it, but I'm in there maybe twice a month because there's a crew of like 50 people that admin all the rooms and just kind of like make it go. So I think it's just

fantastic. There's other great rooms, you know, the Bitcoin Club. That was the OG one with Alex from Galaxy and Terrence Yang and Jeet. Jeet is one of the most beautiful minds in Bitcoin. Jit's to do. So if you haven't had Jeet on your on your show or on your podcast, you're missing out. I have asked him. The timeline didn't line up, but I think I'll have to get him on soon. I like, I want to hang out with that dude. I just think he's amazing. But that's it, man. I'm just like, I'm just so impressed with Bitcoiners. We got to see so many new people come out of the woodwork when it sort of speaking got democratized significantly by Clubhouse.

And now space is obviously taking off as well. And I just think it's absolutely fantastic because, you know, the bar of having to be good at, you know, production and scheduling and all these other things was kind of taken away. And not everybody wants to make a career out of that. And so now there's a place like if you want to chip in once a week, or three times a month or only every once in a while instead of having to interview somebody and sort of be present the whole time, you can kind of, you can do that. And it's just,

it's helped us all discover so much better. It's so much better form of discovery. Incredible for hiring, by the way. Sorry to give away our secret, but I think like, you know, probably half our staff at this point probably came from Clubhouse. That's great. But yeah, that's it, man. And yeah, you can find us on Bitcoin.com. You got me, Corey Clipson on Twitter. but awesome to hang with you guys thanks absolutely to the whole panel i appreciate all of you being here uh very excited to have lawrence nick and cj as first time guests and corey i'm always happy to have you have you have you back and all of you are of course welcome back at any time so uh i'm glad that we could all get bullish together on a friday and uh gentlemen i'm going to cut your audio

and video now but thank you so much for being here all right and everybody watching thank you guys so much for being here as well uh of course if you haven't already smash that like button give this a share it really does help get more eyeballs on this content uh if you want to help help out the show in another way you can always hit up the previously mentioned sponsors in the show notes down below that is leaden uh bit by bit refill bill fottle and keystone there's little bees in there uh and then finally if you really liked what you saw you can always drop me a bitcoin Lightning Network tip at my strike page. That is strike.

Dot me slash BTC sessions. If you go there, it'll bring up a little page. You can type in any amount, hit the tip button. And it brings up a QR code where you can either send via lightning or on chain. Super easy. I love this thing. But anyways, if you haven't seen the strike tutorial that I did, also a cool app if you're within the US, and soon everywhere, you can check it out.

And with that, I am out. Have yourselves a wonderful day, a wonderful evening, wherever you may be. As always, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This has been your daily session. Total the Bitcoin.