BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Optimist Fields, Joey Temprile, Ivan Mackedonski ep364

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

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What's going on everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of why are we bullish? Very excited for all the gentlemen I'm having on this Friday. A couple return guests and a first-time guests as well. And yeah, it's going to be a good time. I hope you all had a good week. It's been spicy.

Twitter's been spicy today. See a lot of, I don't know, dunking and anger and I mean, it's the bear market. You can tell we're deep into that super long bear market. I'm feeling that. But you know what? Today we're going to take a load off. We're just going to have some fun and we're going to be bullish.

That's what we're doing here. So, again, I'm glad to have you all. I'm going to have the live chat up once we get our guests in here. So, of course, while you're watching the show, keep all those messages flowing, keep all those comments coming. I love to see them. They're the highlight of the show for me being able to see you guys out there. Also, of course, this is live.

Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. If you have not already, like, subscribe.

Share that little like button is right below you. Hit it now. It helps a show. Ton, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. All right, before we bring in our guests, we're going to take a look at where we are in the market right now. This is timechain calendar.com. We're sitting at 25,9008 U.S. dollars per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 3,860 sats. In terms of fees, next block, oh, a little bump. 35 sats per byte for next block. If you're willing to wait a bit, 16 sats per byte should do you.

you're getting into the danger zone and around eight sats, your transactions may be purged. So be aware. And in terms of Bitcoin mined, 19.48 million of them, that is 92.76% of the entire supply have been mined. Shout out to sponsor the show, hoddlehottle.com.

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You can grab one of their plug and play devices and be self-sovereign. Host your Bitcoin stack, Bitcoin Core, Lightning, mempool. That space, join market, all your data, files, passwords, photos, all that stuff. And you can run anything from their light node all the way to what I'm running, which is the Start9 server pure, which is badass. Anyways, check them out, start9.com. And with that, I'm going to shut my little mouth here,

and I'm going to bring in our guests. So I'm going to welcome back to the show, Opti, Joey, and for the first time, Ivan, gentlemen, welcome so much to the show. I'm glad to have you back slash have you here for the first time. And I think before we get started, let's do a quick round of intros. Who are you? What do you do? All that good stuff.

So Opti, I'm going to toss it to you. For those unfamiliar, who are you? What do you do? Well, what's up, everyone? I am just a bitcoiner that also makes Bitcoin Media host or co-host. or co-host of Simply Bitcoin, your favorite daily propagandist news outlet. And I'm just a bitcorner, man. I'm just someone that has obsessed with Bitcoin and dedicated every waking hour

to not only understanding Bitcoin, but to hopefully get more people stacking, which for some reason is such an uphill battle. But someone said in the chat, sorry, before we go on, Ben, I have to look in the chat. Poohed in the cereal said, I hope Opti is bullish tonight because I'm not bullish enough on simply, bro, how can I not be more bullish? Well, actually, I might be more low energy than usual. I'm not hyped up on coffee. But, you know, I got to be here in celebration. So it'll be a good night. It'll be good night.

There you go, man. And maybe all you need is some poo in the cereal. That'll hype you up for the night. Anyways, yeah, that's, I'm glad to have you, man. Good to see you. Let's toss it down to Joey. Joey, good to see you, man, as well. Can you let people know who we are, what you do?

Absolutely, man. I'm glad to be back. Good to see you guys. Good to meet you guys. Joey, one half of the Canadian Bicorners podcast. My buddy, Len and I started a show during COVID. It's big enough that Ben's invited me on here. Not once, not twice, but I think three times now.

And yeah, man, you can check us out Monday nights. I'll try and be bullish too. Opti, I feel you, man. Like, it's not always easy to be bullish when you're doing the media show because you can only work with the content you get thrown. I'm fucking hype tonight. Let's get after it. Let's get after it. I love it, man. Well, I'm glad to have you here.

And Ivan, Ivan, we've been chatting for a while. We've been trying to figure out when the hell this was going to happen for a while. I apologize, it took so long. But I'm glad to have you here. Can you give yourself a little intro? Yeah, thanks for having me. You turned me into a very big troll that's used to. Yeah, okay, let's do it.

And then you disappeared in Italy, and I was following everything that you do. But yeah, still, thank for having me. I'm Ivan and I'm cheap of stuff in Breeze, but in reality I'm cheap of stuff in Breeze. So I'm so excited for the chat because I'm so bullish. Awesome. Well, dude, I'm glad to have you. Breeze is badass and, yeah, excited to hear your reason for being bullish in a little bit here.

Everybody in the chat, I mean, yellow is already trolling. Oh, no. off he is on. Yellow's just mad because I didn't put his meme review video or meme video on the meme review and he hasn't let me live it down yet. Yellow, I am sorry. You know how YouTube works, bro. I've explained myself multiple times.

He's typing this from the shelf behind me. He's back there. You see him? He's right there. No wonder he's mad. Yeah. I haven't let him down. He can't jump.

He can't jump. It's too tall. Anyways, we're going to go ahead. We're going to dive in. For those unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish. And very simple premise to the show. Each one of us comes with a reason for being bullish, something that we're excited about in and around the Bitcoin space.

And the flow of the show is very simple. Number one, somebody's going to drop their reason for being bullish. This is their time to rant, chat, whatever it may be, and let us know about what they're excited about. Up next, number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason. We're going to discuss, ask questions, go down whatever rabbit holes. we decide to go down. And number three,

we're going to rotate to the next person until we've all had a turn. So very simple, reason, riff, rotate my number one piece of advice. Don't drop your reason for being bullish early. Wait until I specifically ask you

because there's been some occasions where I come to somebody's reason. They're like, oh, I already said my thing. That's not the real yellow. That's a fake yellow. I just choked out yellow.

Keep talking shit, yellow. No, no, I love you, yellow. Sorry. Yeah, I think. I think, I think, Yellow wants this to be a, uh, macro, macro, macro. Macro, macro. Let's talk about macro. Awesome.

Well, gentlemen, we're going to, we're going to dive into it. Um, I'm going to start up with my reason for being bullish. Um, and it, I'll, I'll try and make it quick here so that I don't need up your time. But, um, I am, I'm bullish on kind of the marriage of Bitcoin and Noster right now because we're starting to see some of the interesting applications that are coming to light, pairing the two. And so there's a couple things that have come up that I've kind of thought were pretty cool. This one, I just actually, both of them kind of came to my attention in the past 24 hours. So this one here is called Joinster, and it's a decentralized coin joint implementation

using Noster. So basically it sets itself apart from other coin joint implementations through several key features. Number one, there's no centralized coordinator, unlike some coin joint implementations that rely on a central coordinator, joint store operates on a decentralized manner, enhancing user privacy. Better UI and UX. It has a simple implementation.

It's aiming to be as accessible as possible. You don't have to do things like put up fidelity bonds, which things like join market have you do. And again, the person who made it is anonymous, which I think is always a, with what happened with the guy that did, what was it, tornado cash, I feel like that should be a huge worry for any developers nowadays

trying to do any sort of private privacy tools out there. So, you know, not having somebody that they can hone in on for that. I think that's also a huge thing. So, yeah, I, again, it's in very early stages. Right now they do have a plug-in for Electrum. But I did look at it and it's, yeah, it's still pretty early. It's not super easy to use by any means. But there's a decentralized coin joint implementation through Nostr.

That's fucking awesome. And I'm excited to see it proliferate and for more stuff like this to pop up. The other thing that caught my eye and that I'm happy about is Marty Bent tweeted this out. But he's like, don't look now. But Mutiny Wallet is highlighting the power of Bitcoin and Noster by spinning up a self-sovereign Venmo competitor over the course of a couple months. So basically, this is Mutiny Wallet, which anybody familiar, this is, again, kind of in the vein of like automated lightning wallet type thing where most of the background stuff is kind of obfuscated away.

But you can also plug in your Noster details here. And then it becomes almost like a contact list where you can just zap people back and forth and send lightning transactions amongst all your contacts, which is pretty awesome. And so I just think that the, again, because Noster is, it's, it's, it's, we'll call it Bitcoin adjacent just in ethos right like trying to cut out middlemen trying to make things censorship resistant

and it's very easy to plug in lightning to it and use lightning alongside it. Is it perfect? Absolutely not but it's working there and it's getting there. So that's kind of why I'm excited. I'm excited to see where this takes us and what other cool shit is going to be built with the marriage of these two things and maybe other technologies.

So I'll leave that there. And also, I want to, I don't know, I don't know who this is, but thank you for whatever that is. I appreciate it. And also, Christine Lagarde has entered the chat. And she wanted to say hi to her ex, right? Opti, you guys aren't together anymore. Yeah, well, everyone unfortunately spotted us on the Riviera over the weekend, the French Riviera, wherever we were. I don't even remember it was such a great week. Now, I'm not dating her. Come on. I got close to the money printer and I'm still broke.

What kind of scam is this? Jeez. And not only that, I get trolled every day about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate. You weren't be able to milk that a little bit more. I tried for the culture, guys.

Yeah. Yeah. Has that thirst wrap up on the weekend. It was out on the weekend. She was on the boat there with the... I think that was last week, I don't know. The two printers were almost all the way out.

Hey, almost. Oh, man. Can you blame me now, guys? Can you blame me now, guys? Yeah, yeah, you got to get some of that. Anyways, gentlemen, so I'll open it up to you guys. What do you thoughts in and around kind of the marriage of Bitcoin, Lightning, Noster? Have you played with it much?

Are you seeing positive things? Do you have reservations? Let me know. What do you think? I'm guilty of not using as much as I should. Len, who co-hosts the show with me is a big Noster guy, and he's completely basically removed himself from Twitter or X. I got to say, looking at the stuff you just showed Ben,

how is it possible to not look at that and see that there's disruption happening in spaces where, you know, we were sort of, I don't want to say we, Bitcoiners think no better than this, but the general public was promised this quote unquote like freedom platform, right? Where you can go speak your mind, transact and things like that. Elon promised this financial hub of sorts with the clone of WeChat. You can say what you want about the privacy stuff. You shouldn't expect privacy on Twitter regardless, but you should at least expect functionality.

Right now you're not getting either. And if you go over to an auster, what do you see? You see people there who are sharing a lot of signal. There's no bots. I don't see any Ali Express drop shipping stores. and now you're telling me there's like a Venmo clone. I mean, Ben, you and me are Canadian. We don't even have anything like that.

I have no option to send people money like that. I can't slide my thumb for anything. I got to put in passwords and secret questions. I got to add emails and phone numbers with my bank. If I can use this thing and turn someone onto this and use the Venmo feature as a top of the funnel moment for Noster and for Bitcoin, it doesn't get much easier than that. I think, after you said earlier, trying to keep people a stack is like an uphill battle.

Oh, sure shit it is, man. Because everyone thinks you're crazy in your friend group. Either they're already in Bitcoin or they think you're nuts. And so if you can show these guys like, hey, by the way, if you need to Venmo me some money, just do this. It's way easier. It takes Bitcoin. And it's, you know, a piece of cake.

You don't have to ID. You don't have to do anything. It's perfect. And to me, doesn't get much better than that. As far as like orange pill, easy top of the funnel moment. That's great to see, man. I'm hyped on that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. I'm, yeah, it's, it's, you're right. Like here in Canada, it's shit for trying to send money to. You get e-transfers, at least. There's that. But like, you know, log into your online banking.

And then like the first time you send somebody in e-transfer, it's like, add a payee and, like, fill out all this bullshit. And yeah, it's not, we don't have cash app or Venmo or any stuff like that. It's like your online bank. But my bank app is still sending emails hyped about taking people. pictures of checks in the fucking dark man are you like we're never going to get memo it's never going to come we're not getting it it's not on the way well it's good thing that uh that i've opted out of uh banking for for the most part i just like fully i think 90 something percent of of my uh my transacting now is is fully outside of the banking system

which is i love it i love yeah yeah um i don't know i've been what what's your thoughts in and around because I mean like you you're doing work with Breeze and so you must be like you guys must be kind of discussing you know like you're you all already focus on making lightning as easy as possible what are the discussions in and around Nostra like how are you guys viewing it how are you viewing it uh I personally view it that it's it's 2009 Bitcoin but about free speech. And anybody that is there, there are lots of problems,

I would say, because it's so, so, so early. But everybody that is about content creation or anything there, and especially if you're a bitcoiner, and you don't set aside, let's say, 5% of your time to be R&D,

even if you call it like that to Noster, you're wasting a huge opportunity. because if you're doing the same things that you're doing, we know that at some points they will collapse, just like the Fiat system. We don't know when, we don't know how fast, but this is coming for everything else. And I do think that the social media aspect is resonating much more

where it's used so much in the first world. In Africa, I don't think it's that important there. the use cases are much more around payments, inflation and stuff like that. So Bitcoin is orange-pilling them by itself. But the purple peel is absolutely fantastic for the first world. You don't have to explain all store of value, or this. How many likes? How many likes?

They receive the likes, but on top of that, they receive some tokens that are Satoshi's and they go, oh, why the hell did I do that? Oh, I can buy something with that. And then it just spins. So about that, I'm hugely optimistic that the company creators are getting more into it. Because those would be the people that are the marketers for Noster. And anybody that is not devoting some portion of the time playing around with the tools, it's going to miss the bull market there about, let's say, Rihanna gets on lost

or whatever it is and capture some value this way, because you're upro-thrumpropping those kinds of people with millions and millions of people, and you're just building your network. That's my personal approach on it. We have some things internally in Brise. We are obviously looking at it. But for those, they're going to be a real soon, I would say. Yeah, that's awesome. I should note also that this is actually streaming live to Nostr as well.

I've been streaming in Nostr for. How do you find that, Ben? Like, how hard is that to do? A lot of people are doing that now are starting to. It's actually not bad. So there's a website. It's just zap.stream. And then you log in with your NPU.

and and then you pretty much just it gives you the the streaming credentials and you just plunk them into like restream or stream yard or whatever and just add it as a source and it just goes and so like it's not perfect like there's still i've had issues pop up and everything but it it seems to work like it's i'm literally i've got a window open of it right now and i can see it so are there people over there right now yeah i'm i'm looking at the live chat too that's the one thing that i want to try and figure out is how to get that live chat a part of this live chat that's like right now I'm you know up on the on on the screen here we're seeing YouTube and like it's going to other places um you know it it's going to Twitter it's going to rumble it's going to a bunch of other places but um you know it'd be so valuable to be able to pipe that uh chat noster chat in as well because I'm like I'm looking at it right now and there's a few people on Noster right now that are that are commenting and zapping and everything

is it's a cool it's a cool thing to have and so I just started doing it with every episode and why not? Why wouldn't you go there you know with this this proliferation of new people and it's pretty interesting too because it's not all Bitcoiners. Like there yeah there's a lot of bitcoiners and like

when you curate your feed of Bitcoiners like you don't there's no algal pumping you other bullshit shit either. Like you just get like what you're actually following. Um, but yeah, yeah. Apparently, apparently, Opti just yawned. He is bored and being disrespectful. Can I, can I defend myself? Jeez. I was telling Ben, I just came back from a walk. It's like 108 degrees out there. I'm still getting oxygen to my brain yellow. You're, you're such a bully. No, it's whatever. I, I kind of agree. It is a little disrespectful. You're both getting it. Joey's getting it too. is he's everybody said,

Joey, can you stop flexing under your sweater? We all know your jacked. I'm wearing an extra large sweatshirt. The number of tendons that have spun up like spoof accounts and my live streams that have made their way over here. As long as I tear something and tell people about it, there's a new account in the show the next week.

Joey's, Joey's. NARwage. I'm getting roasted right now. All right, all right. Okay. All right. I'm going to toss it to you then, Opty. What's that?

Oh my God. I want your take on Noster and. Yeah, yeah. So personally, you know, I don't mean to be like, oh, my God. And I'm going to be bearish, low key on Noster. Geez. All right. So Nostr personally, it still feels a little clunky for me.

So I kind of agree with Ivan's view that it does feel like, I don't know, early Twitter or what have you. But I still think that it's just, it's so fucking awesome to like. just get your get some you know whatever ideas some just like random tweets out or i don't know what do you call them post or whatever and then people send you zaps on it and i know i'm an i'm an iOS user so like whatever you can throw tomatoes all you want and i use domis and so obviously they removed that zap feature but it still is just super cool i've been i've been finding myself tweeting more on nostr or on domis than i have been on twitter like twitter seems like it's dying it feels like a cesspool and there's something about Noster that, I don't know, it just feels more positive over there. Like,

it seems like people are like, you know, a lot happier on Noster. They're enjoying their time versus Twitter is a lot more just like negative engagement. Everyone's trying to dunk on each other. And so on the one hand, it does feel a little more homely, I guess maybe. But on the other hand, the one of the things that I'd like to see happening with Noster is it not being so much just of an echo chamber. Like, that's why I love Twitter so much. It's a public square. Like, you can have all these different conversations about all kinds of crazy stuff and there's people that aren't just bitcoinsers. And I know there's users that aren't just bitcoinsers on Noster, but at least the ones I interact with, you know, they're like, you know, there's no shit corners on Noster as far as I can

tell. So that's pretty awesome to see. And it just, you know, again, it does feel a little, a little clunky for me. But other than that, it's just, I find myself more incentivized to post stuff on Noster than to post stuff on Twitter. Even if they're sending me like, you know, 20,000, Sats here, 21 sets, sending me a knack, you know, 69 sets or 42 sets or whatever people are sending. Like, there's something to you post something and then you get like a, you know, what is like 50 sets? It's like half of a penny or something, but you're still just like, let's go. Like I'm monetizing this tweet, bro. Like I haven't monetized Twitter and I've been on it for five, six years now and I have, you know, thousands of followers. And it's just like it's a

cesspool. And Noster does feel like it's growing. Like there is a lot more active user base. And again, I'm not the most in tune with everything built on Noster. But I have heard some conversations and have just heard some of the inklings of stuff being built on the Noster protocol. And it just, it's so amazing. Like there's so much stuff that can be done that like someone like me, you know, high level regard can't even dream about. And so I'm just sitting back and waiting for the builders to build this stuff so that I can literally be like the iPhone user and be like, oh my God, it works. This is awesome. I don't have to think about this.

Where's the friction? It is gone. Like that's what I want to see, obviously. Of course, maybe I'm nitpicking here, but I don't know. I really, I'm really bullish on Noster and everything being built on Noster and like what you showed. I didn't even know about that. Like, that's absolutely awesome. And shout out to the Mutiny Boys, you know, Carmen and Tony Georgio. Some of the homies out there, I was hanging out with them at Bitlock Boom.

They have probably one of the best shirts in Bitcoin. And I had to bug Carman all night to get me one. So, you know, I'm glad we did a mutiny. plug because I love that wallet. Yeah. They're doing a good job. It's very interesting. I'm excited to kind of see what comes out from that team.

And of course, like Ben the Carman, he's a fellow Ben. He's part of the High Council of Bitcoin Ben's. So I'm just falling into all the traps today. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Thanks. Thanks for your vote of confidence. Good to hear you are a card carrying Ben Ally.

Yeah, I'm a Ben Council, Maxie. Yeah, Skeef. And Loki and anti-Benzel, Maxie. I don't know. I can't pick up. Somewhere just shuddered. He just felt like a Ben energy. Yeah, Skeef just cried.

He just dropped his glass of milk. Like, oh, they're talking about Ben somewhere. Yeah. Lisa, my wife is because she edits my Friday shows and pulls out clips and stuff from them. She's going through the High Council of Bitcoin Ben's episode that I did like a couple months ago. She's pulling out. So there's like five Benz all in a single episode. And all of us keep on being like,

Hey, Ben, so what do you? Oh, shit. Like, had to like resort to last names. But anyways, yeah, I've one other little point that'll add to this in regards to Nostra. And, you know, we're talking about, you know, small, small little monetizations of, of posts and getting zapped and everything like that. Obviously, like us here, those amounts are, are minuscule.

But I, a few months ago, I are a couple of, months ago, I had a girl on, her name was Mary Imusuin, I think is that where you say her last name, but she's from Nigeria. And she does streaming. And she does like a lot of Bitcoin specific gaming where you can like monetize with and like do streams. And she was using like Zabity plug in for her live stream of gaming and people were Zapp and Sat. And she was like, oh, I did a stream and I got like 16,000 sats. And she's like, I mean, I know it doesn't seem like a bunch. It was like four or five bucks. But like when I convert. converted that to local currency, that's like, I can't remember what she's just, it was like 3,400

Naira or something. She's like, you can, you can do a lot with 3,400 Naira here. Like it doesn't seem like you should be able to, but you can do a lot with that. And that's meaningful to the people here. So to get that from like streaming myself gaming is wild. And a lot of people here, they're seeing that as as like this whole new world being open to them. So like again, depending on where in the world you are, people are viewing it differently. Like we're saying, you know, first world, it's like I hope these, you know, technocrats don't go and censor everything that I say.

And third world, it's like, holy shit, somebody just sent me $4 and now I can like stock my fridge. So it's like very different depending on where you are. But it's all, I mean, I think it's all great and I can't wait to see it continue. Anyways, guys, I'm going to cap out that conversation, and we're going to do a rotation. I'm sure that there's more piling onto Opti happening in the chat. But we're going to forge ahead. And for better or worse, I'm going to pass the torch to Opti. And I'm going to, I'm going to cue you up simply by saying, why are you bullish?

Take it away, man. Okay. First and foremost, you guys, read Yellow's comments. can neither confirm nor deny if this is lies or truth. But thank you, Yellow. I appreciate the Opti trivia. Okay. Anyways, anyways, you know, at first when you told me I was coming on the show, I was kind of leaning towards more of the idea.

You know, we just got the FASB rule this week. And I know Yellow is in the chat, Macro, Maco, Maco, Maco. And so I was kind of going to go down that route about the fact that, you know, the timing of the FASB rules and corporate adoption and the bull run, in my opinion, that is probably never coming again. No, I'm just joking. That it's going to probably peak around that same time is one of the reasons why I'm most bullish.

But that seems kind of, that doesn't feel right. And I just got off the phone with my boy Tarantula. And he, whoa, I forgot to tell you, Ben. He said to say, what's up to you and the misses? And I told him, I'd tell you. And we had like an hour conversation. and low-key guys, it got a little dark on the conversation about where the world is heading. But the silver lining is obviously Bitcoin.

And the reason I think I am bullish is it might be multifaceted. First and foremost is I really do believe that in this bear market, it's been one of the bullish bear markets, even though the price has been pretty stagnant. There's so much stuff being built, whether it's on Noster, whether it's like our boys over at Mutiny, building stuff, whether it's other Bitcoin companies rolling stuff out, or whether, in my opinion, considering that I am on the media propaganda front as a bitcorner,

I think maybe it's just because I'm seeing it now and it's one of those things of just because I'm noticing it, it's becoming more prevalent. But I think now I've never seen more conversation around Bitcoin and whether it's in the corporate press, whether it's coming on like my social media feeds outside of Bitcoin, whether it's like I just saw this clip about Bill Burr talking about the Federal Reserve and like dunking on them.

Anyways, what I always say, and I might have said this last time and it's still why I'm bullish is the tyrants and the authoritarianes out there are the best marketers for Bitcoin. And I know it's getting dark right now and I know people are feeling the sticker shock. They're feeling the inflation. They're wondering why their purchasing power is going down. It's like it's the best time right now for people to ask. the fundamental question that we've all asked ourselves, what is money? And, you know, psychology, human psychology is a funny thing. And as much as we try to, you know, dangle a carrot in front of

people's face and be like, you know, number's going to go up. You're going to get rich if you hold Bitcoin. Most humans just run away from pain. And this is the point where we are, where people are feeling so much pain that they're starting to ask the questions. And I really do believe that maybe not this year, but moving into 2024 and 2025. We have crossed the mainstream Rubicon into popular consciousness. And everyone's talking about Bitcoin. Everyone's had, in my opinion, maybe it's not everyone. Maybe it's like 75% of the population. But they've all had their multiple touch points towards Bitcoin. You know, everyone has heard about Bitcoin last year or when it hits 69K. They've probably heard about it on the news. The tickers are on CNBC every single day. They're constantly

fudding Bitcoin. And I just think this is just such a ripe foundation for people to get Bitcoin. Yes, it sounds a little negative if you really think about it. It's like, yeah, the world's going to fucking shit. But like, this is bullish for Bitcoin. I really do think that this is bullish for Bitcoin because like, not everyone is as curious as us. And not everyone has the same foundation that we do where they're like, okay, something's wrong with the world. I need to find a solution. People need to feel the problem first. And hey, for better or worse, that problem is happening right now. And when I have conversations with my boy Tarantula or any other of my Bitcoin friend, my Bitcoin family out there, Yellow will get the reference there because he told me

the other day. It makes me super bullish because there's so many of us, like all three of us, all four of us, rather, we've all dedicated our lives to Bitcoin. In our own way, we are all 100% into Bitcoin. We constantly have these conversations. All our friends and family know we're the crazy Bitcoiner. And we're just sitting here waiting for that. to wake up to all the crazy clown world stuff happening. And I'm just like so, I'm so excited, even though it's been a long bear market. And, you know, there's been a lot of fudding. We've had literal corporate fud campaigns against Bitcoin.

And Bitcoin just keeps shrugging it off. Blocks keep coming in. People keep talking about Bitcoin. We're getting this FASB rule coming in. You know, we're getting the Bitcoin spot ETF macro, macro, macro. I feel like just all the headwinds are perfectly aligning for a 2025 bull run. And it's just what we tell you guys constantly of stay humble, stack sat, stay solvent. Right now is not the time that you want to be dumping your Bitcoin.

Like this is the time when you want to double down, stack more when there's blood on the streets. Even if it's yours, you want to go even harder. And I've had so many conversations with friends that they got absolutely murdered throughout this bear market. Their stacks are decimated. But they're still as active and as bullish on Bitcoin than ever. And everyone is just looking for the opportunity to stack more. And I just feel like it's the perfect tsunami that's going to play out going into the 2024, 2025 bull run.

And, you know, I hate to be the stupidly super bullish guy. But and I hate to be like this time's different. But it really does feel like this time is different. And I don't want to say super cycle. But again, I'm getting the tingle. and I'm getting stupidly bullish. We're like, I'm going full Piero shard on this time. And I'm like, wow, is this a super cycle?

Is this everything just perfectly aligning for the ultimate bull run? I mean, I don't know. We still have a big, big ship to turn around. You know, we're what, hovering around 25K right now. And it's going to take a lot of liquidity to move this around and a lot of public consciousness to switch around Bitcoin. But I don't know, man. Like, I've never been, yellow.

I just, I ate all the tacos. But how many? We'll bet tacos. Let's do a bet right here live. How many tacos? I don't know. I'm just bullish on the people, I think, I guess. I'm bullish on the Bitcoin builders out there because I have a fundamental thesis, a fundamental

axiom that I work through. And it's that governments and bureaucrats and politicians are fundamentally inefficient. And they cannot compete with the builders and the entrepreneurs on the free market. And they need to stop the free market at all cost. And what? We got free market money. So like keep fucking building, keep stacking, keep being the crazy Bitcoiner because like we're winning. We're constantly winning.

And man, the more people talk about Bitcoin, the more people talk shit on Bitcoin. The more governments talk shit on Bitcoin, the more bullish I am. It's like, this is why we need this. It's becoming clearer and clearer every single day to even average people that they need Bitcoin. And here we are ready and waiting for them. Like, yeah, come here a little bit. Come here, my little minions. We'll be here when you're ready.

We've built it. Now come and join us because you might want some Bitcoin just in case it catches on. I like it. I like it. Ivan, do you think the world is getting to the point where they're primed for Bitcoin? I mean, is it, how imminent is it? Do we need more pain, a lot more pain? Or where are you at?

Wait, wait, wait, before you go on, pull up Paulie's comment right here. Oh, wait, did it not come in? Wait. Oh, yeah, wait. Are you talking about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How can I stay my Bitcoin stack be decimated? One Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin.

This definitely this guy definitely isn't bullish enough. Sheesh. Ivan, I'll toss it to you. Yeah, I agree with Optia, absolutely. I think we're prime, but you never know until it happens. And I do feel that the biggest thing in the market is if the pain is present right now. And you're in front of their face with the solution. Because if they just feel the pain, they will search for a solution,

but they might get into another wreckage or something. But it's interesting when somebody is really feeling the pain. And let's say that happens in the majority of society in one country, like Lebanon or Sri Lanka, whatever the case may be. And there is that one crazy person that is so happy and is welcoming people in that moment and time. And would love to share how he achieved that and connect with people on a human level. Then imagine if our Bitcoin Maxi group gets bigger and there is that Citadel or whatever signal that proliferates in. the whole society where it's crazy and we are in front of their face with the solution.

Then just because of your calmness, you're going to attract the attention. You don't have to do anything. We are doing what we're going to do for the rest of our lives probably. But because of this, and in the moment of pain, you're in front of them. I think that is the moment on the human level. But on the price level, if every. everything crashes and Bitcoin continues to go up, then it will be like, I have no idea what's going to happen then. I think then we have a Lebanon event multiplied by a hundred for the whole world.

I have no idea what would be it. But I think, yeah, it feels that we are primed, but we never know if we're big enough of a community to be in front of everybody. but he's faced with the solution. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, like you said, we, we, we just need to be there. We just need to be the people that are ready to help people when, when they're ready to come to Bitcoin. To paraphrase Louis C.K.

Be the Mormon of currency that you would like to see in the world. Be that, be that Bitcoin missionary. go out there and spread the good word of our Lord and Savior, Satoshi Nakamoto, and spread the book of Satoshi. Anybody that doesn't know what hell I'm talking about, Louis C.K. tweeted out earlier, Bitcoiners are like the Mormons of currency. No matter how many times you tell them you aren't interested or make fun of them, they will continue to show up with a smile on their face asking you to change your entire worldview.

So accurate, entirely accurate. accurate. Joey, I want to toss it to you. And actually, I kind of want to inject a little something here because we're both out of Canada. And I'm sure you must have seen it like in, in, in the vein of people are pissed and hurt and ready. I'm sure you've seen the TikToks of people like, I don't, I don't understand. I'm, I'm making $35 an hour. I'm making, you know, $80,000, 70,000, a year and I can't make ends meet and I don't understand. I was told this is what I had to do and everything's broken and I'm fucked and I don't get it.

It's weird, man. I think, okay, a couple things to kind of bring home what Ivan and Opthi said. Some of these strategies that the government uses to control inflation are based on faith and confidence. And, you know, there was a time not long ago, maybe 2009, 10, whatever during that last big financial crisis. where the only messaging you would see around the state of the economy, state of affairs and the monetary system was from MSNBC, CNBC, CNN, Fox, whatever, right?

Those are regardless of your political stripes, those are more or less government meltpieces. They're carrying a flag, carrying water for sitting governments and trying to keep the status quo safe. Okay. But now those same strategies, again, like to your point, Opti, not only are they fundamentally inefficient, they're fundamentally uncreative, and they just, they don't have any good ideas. So you're seeing the same strategies over and over and over again, but the environment has changed. They don't realize that. They're in this like this bubble where everything they say they view as holier than now

as this kind of like scripture level truth. And they don't consider that everyone else can see something different. I saw somebody in the chat, maybe Jaime, mentioning the Krugman suite from today, where actually he's telling people that inflation is way down, you're richer than you think. I don't know, you fucking moron. I think it's possible that people are not as rich as they think and they can't afford groceries. They can't afford food. They're living in fucking tents under bridges.

They're coming here for school. They can't put food on the table for their kids. They can't send their kids to school. They're pretending that Uber eats is a fucking job when the employment numbers come out. None of that shit makes any fucking sense. None of it does. But because the information environment has changed, we can see it now. We can talk to each other about it.

We're on Wari Bullish. We're shooting the shit. We're talking people in the chat. We're on Twitter. We're on Noster. We're making podcasts. We're making videos. Everyone can look at this stuff.

The unique thing to me about Bitcoin in this environment. in this environment is that, you know, there's a lot of people who say Bitcoin is like this zero interest rate phenomenon, right? When people have tons of money throw around, it goes into these liquidity vacuums. And Bitcoin is a good one. I will admit that. But the thing that Bitcoin has going for is that it's not only a lottery ticket when things are good. It's a lifeboat when things are bad. And there's not many assets like that that have the lottery ticket and lifeboat on either side of the coin. And when you think about Bitcoin during a down economy, like you said, both you guys mentioned it. The solution is here. I can show you what the,

problem is and now I have the solution for you too. It's very easy. It's simple. There's a little bit of history now with this thing. You guys mentioned the building that's going on. And Ivan is like whispering to the accelerationist crowd. Accelerate.

Like these guys want to see shit blow up. And I think that like honest to God, listening to the media talks, you see Freeland today tweeting about Canada's AAA credit rating, Ben? She reaffirmed our AAA credit rating. People can't put food on the table, man. Yeah.

These guys, if we did nothing in Bitcoin, If we ossified now, all we'd have to do is let these guys do what they do best and we'd be fine. And I think the way that we're building and the way that I see the sort of the ecosystem growing, and I'll talk about that a bit in my reason as well. But like there's no reason not to look at what's going on around you and think that it may have been a lottery ticket during the zero interest rate environment, but I think it could be a lifeboat now. People will want to get on.

And like you said, Opti, the water's warm, baby. Come on in. Come on in. We're ready for you. Yeah. Is that, oh God, that that Krugman tweet, I got to read it really quick. Because I won't have anything fucking better to do than send out stupid tweets. Dude, that's his job.

That's his job to make shit up. He's a Keynesian economist. I love. He's disconnected from reality. Like, I have no idea. That was one of the things that I had no idea once I got into the Bitcoin space, that how much economists are completely. completely disconnected from reality.

They think that this thing, money is something virtual, like the points in a game, and you can build 2% on top of a building every year until whatever, they have so much more. But if you do that in a reality, put 2% on top of every building. At some point it will collapse. You don't know exactly when or what you're connected to reality,

and money is connected to a reality. They are so out of touch. So yeah. Yeah. I'll read the tweet. So Krugman tweeted out. He said, over the past couple days, I've had several conversations with smart people who follow the news and had no idea that inflation is weighed down. Presumably hasn't broken through all at all to the wider public.

And I think one of the best replies was this guy, Julian. fairer, I think is his name. He said prices are higher and rising. Everyone is still poorer, probably has something to do with it. And then he said in quotes, I don't get why people aren't able to casually calculate the second derivative of prices of a basket of goods in their head and then fail to give government credit for that arbitrary number being negative. Like, and Savadine, I think, retweeted him and was, oh yeah, he said, the queen. to Central Fiat economist tweet. People are idiots for letting the

economic reality they experience shape their worldview. They should base their worldview on bullshit fiat government statistics instead. Wait, that was Sailor? That was Saved, Dean. Yeah, of course. I was going to say, that sounds a little too toxic for Sailor.

But like, it's so funny that again, the people that are that somehow can make a living commenting on on the state of our economy are the ones that are the most disconnected from it and are saying why aren't what you why aren't you why aren't you happy that things are getting expensive less fast when everybody can't put food on their fucking table and might lose their houses like like what a dumbass take anyways yeah it's it does seem to me like the world.

that large is is is hitting that that breaking point. I've seen a few um videos kind of comparing um kind of comparing like the the how bad things were how bad things are now like in terms of how much you have to work in order to like actually feed a family and all that comparing it to um like the great depression and I will say some of those videos well funny to watch were not uh like the math was not like accurate. But nonetheless, it does point out that when you've got a media apparatus that is telling you that everything is great and fine. It takes longer for people to be like, no, everything's fucked. I'm fucked.

And thank you very much for telling me the opposite because now I know that you're trying to feed me lies. So I, you know, like people are getting it. People are realizing that something is completely broken. and and I wonder how much more they will hear the government and the media telling them that they're good without really, really pushing back. So anyways, yeah, Opti enjoyed that, enjoyed that riff, that topic there. But I'm going to, conscious of time, I'm going to keep rolling here. We're going to do a rotation. Ivan, I'm going to toss it to you next and I'll queue you up.

And yeah, I'll start you with the same question. I ask everybody, why are you bullish? I was preparing for this question and a lot of things came to mind. But I would say that I'm so bullish on the bear market right now. And what I mean about that is, come on, bring the price of Bitcoin down. I would love it. You cannot do anything to dilute the Bitcoin Maxi Building Club because the only organization right now that is outperforming Bitcoin

is actually the builders on top of Bitcoin because Bitcoin is unmovable. So everything that you build on top is your extra effort or your extra value. And it's no wonder that micro strategy is outperforming Bitcoin. But guess what? Every single podcaster that is building on top of Bitcoin is also outperforming it. Every single person that is building an app that is on Bitcoin is outperforming it

because you're providing value on top of the value that you already accrued. So everything that they do, they will not be able to dilute us in any shape or form. That means that if they bring the price of Bitcoin down, that means that we will actually get even a bigger percentage of the whole value in the network. And when everything else goes to shit and they destroy everything, the builders will continue to build. But we will have so much more to work with than right now. So that is really my reason. I am so bullish on the bear market.

And that is really the reason, because the value is. going to the builders. Everybody that is here for the price will, I hope that they get right, really. Because you will do stupid shit, get leverage, get short positions or whatever. That's the casino. And if you're here to build, you're absolutely certain that you're going to outperform Bitcoin and everybody else will be glad that you did so because they will use the value on top of Bitcoin that you're giving to them. So that's kind of my point for being bullish. I like that.

And it plays to what Opti said earlier, the stay humble, stack stats, stay solvent. That's a key part. That is a key Bitcoin lesson that way. I think I retweeted simply earlier. And it was to a tweet like that, stay humble, stack stats, stay solvent. I think those are kind of, we've had a bunch of Bitcoin lessons through the cycles. Like if you go back to 2017, I think the major lesson, it was the first bull market where the ending lesson was finally Bitcoin only. It really solidified that for a lot of people and probably brought forth the first set of like vocal Bitcoin only people.

Except that birth to laser eyes, right? That was really the origin of that was 20. That was the next one though. Yeah, that was like 2020, I think. Yeah. But the 2020, I think the lesson, because like a lot of people took that lesson of Bitcoin only in 2017 and gradually learned through that bear market and then came into 2021 with the, okay, great, I'm Bitcoin only.

I get it. I'm good. But even with that lesson, there was more learning because how many people got fucked on leverage. How many people said, yo, I'm going to, I'm going to lever up and I'm going to get myself in a position that I can only stay in for so long before I have to go one way or the other. And how many people had parts or in the entirety of their stacks wiped out chasing yield in some way, shape, or form instead of just staying humble and stagnant sats? And so, Ivan, when you say that the people that are, the people that are,

building the people that are that are here right now through the bear market and and the price becomes irrelevant those are the people that again will get the opportunity to shape not bitcoin itself because obviously like the the bitcoin is bitcoin and and it is what it is but the ecosystem around it the tools that are built around it they're the ones that are going to come out the other side of this, the ones that had the wherewithal to, one, stick with Bitcoin, even through the bare markets and not speculate on shitcoins, but two, also be responsible about it and not get into gambling away the fruits of their labor. And to have the wherewithal to, I think the most important thing, create value. I think that's going to be kind of the lesson.

of this coming of this coming market is that you you can't just bank on number go up you have to also carve out your niche and be good at some and it doesn't have to be a bitcoin thing it can it can be providing value to your community and the people around you in some way that people actually are willing to you know for the time being part with their dollars, but part with their sats to pay you for your services. And if you can, if you can make it through that provide value, save in Bitcoin, spend less than you earn, then you're going to, again, have that power to shape things going forward. And those people that don't stay humble stock sats, go Bitcoin only, that don't stay away from leverage, that don't provide any value,

at some point you may be forced to sell a bunch of your stack. And that's unfortunate, but that's the reality of it. So like learn what your skill set is. Learn where you can provide value to the people around you and hone in on that. And whether that's a Bitcoin related thing or whether it's just an entirely different skill that you do for fiat mining now and sat mining later, doesn't matter. provide that value and stack those sats and stay humble. Yeah. And when you provide value, you're thinking about how can I give?

If you're here, I want Bitcoin to pump in price. You're thinking about I want to take. I want more. I want more. So what do I get? So the builders are thinking, how can I give more? So something will come back. It's inevitable.

And I don't think we should. should ask when is the Bitcoin price going to go up for me. But think about what can I do for Bitcoin. Like a famous speech, ask not what Bitcoin can pump for you. Ask what you can do for Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's inspirational.

I might, I got to get some Kleenex. I don't know about you guys. I would just also add that it's funny. Like I think the whole net producers thing, Ben, you're absolutely right. I think Bitcoiners are net producers on the whole. And there's been so much chatter in the last four years from naysayers about how toxic, about how narrow-minded, about how, you know, over-focused on the wrong things that we are. But I just think like you're at the point now where you can just point to the scoreboard on most of these things, right? Don't spend your time.

Like we mentioned earlier with the Noster Twitter thing and like spending time in this kind of negative flywheel. Don't spend your time there. Give them the scoreboard and just carry on because they're not going to win. You know, like they're just not going to win. You can see this all over the place. There's just not been any victories for any of these other teams, whether it's, you know, shit coins or NFTs. I would even say ordinals fell by the wayside at this point.

All these things that people tried to add or shift Bitcoin to for their own benefit. Like you said, I've been trying to take from Bitcoin. They failed. All of them failed. And you would have just been better off thinking about how you can contribute to the cause and add to your own stack while trying to, you know, not get wrecked during. an extended bear market, which we're in now. So yeah, it's been, it's been fun to see.

I really enjoyed this bear market as well. It's been the most fun one that I've been through so far. Yeah. It's been the most dramatic. Holy shit. Sometimes I just, I just have to like, I get on, I get anxiety because I'm like, everybody is like at each other's throats. And I'm like, I like that person.

I like that person. And they want to kill each other. And everybody's, everybody's a fucking fed. everything is a sigh off. Like, it's all happening. And I'm like, oh, man, like, this bear market is like, you can tell where we are in, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel for like things to do right now. And this is why Ivan's point is so, you know, it's so spot on is because like,

it's very easy to get wrapped up in that and just start typing and fuck this guy. But like I've started myself to there's been a few times where I'm like I'm typing a response and then I'm like what I'm doing? If I hit if I hit send right now, this then spirals me into multiple replies and it could be 20, 30 minutes, an hour. Who knows? How long am I going to focus my energy on this? And I put down the phone. I'm like, all right. Let's let's go work on a tutorial or something.

that's you have to you have to like the only thing more scarce than sats is your time and and like you know if if twitter's fun and you're enjoying or the you know like great then go ahead but if like if you're getting stressed out from it and they're like oh take take a couple days off nobody gives a fuck like it just show up again they'll be there hop over to nostril a little bit seems to be a little bit happier at the moment. Who knows? I mean, that'll shift as it becomes more mainstream. But like nonetheless, like do things that make you happy,

that make you productive and that provide value for the people around you. And you'll be better off. I don't know. Opti, how do you feel? Yeah, well, I want to touch on the last thing. And I said this before we started the show, it's like, more people should follow the 72-hour rule. Log off your Twitter for 72 hours and someone else will do something else stupid.

You don't have to argue with the person on Twitter. He will be there. when you get back. Anyways, that's a totally other tangent. But as Joey said, and I've been trying to say this to as many people as possible, because it's just so obvious. And at this point, it almost feels cliche. But it's very obvious to me, and at least to all of our friends out there, that Bitcoin is so

obviously winning. It's head and shoulders above everything else, whether it's in price, whether it's in hash rate, whether it's in adoption levels. Like, there's nothing that comes close to Bitcoin. And I really do think, like, a lot of people are doing themselves a disservice by continuing to, you know, like double down and talk shit on shitcoins. It's like we've shifted the conversation like Ben was saying, you know, 2017 was definitely the era where like it made sense to battle the shit coasters. Like there was still that contention like, oh, there's Bitcoin, the shit coin. And now what?

We're five, six years out of it. And it's just like, it's so obvious to anyone paying attention that Bitcoin is very clearly winning. And we should focus our energies more on the real fucking enemy, which is the ultimate shitcoin, which is fiat currencies and central bankers and their ilk. So like I totally agree with Joey. Like it's it's so obvious to me that Bitcoin has so clearly won as hard money, digital hard money, you know, hard cap money. Digital money for the digital world. Like it's just it's so clear to me that this is the case that like any of these distractions by shitcoiners is just like, all right, bro. like cool like have fun it have fun in your sandbox because no one gives a fuck and you know this

and then moving to this bear market um like i've been said you know i am i've been saying this for a while like i'm so bullish on this bear market i think it might be the most bullish bear market just by the sheer amount of builders and then also like i said in the beginning the amount of corporate attention whether that's good or bad it's like you know say what you want about conier but He's got a line that I love. It's like, everyone's going to say something. I'd be worried if they said nothing. And that's where I'm at right now.

Like, all press is good press. Let them talk about Bitcoin bad. Let them say good things. Let them embrace Bitcoin. Like, whatever. It doesn't matter. Honey Badger doesn't care. And this bear market, in my opinion,

I think it's been one of the most important bear markets in the history of Bitcoin because of so many of us Bitcoiners that finally took the plunge full time to Bitcoin. and we're totally invested in this. And this is why, Ben, as you said, you know, you can tell that everyone is like just worn out from the bear market. You know, our net worth has been decimated for two years. And we're just sitting here like, how much poorer can we get? Like, how much worse can this get?

Like, it doesn't matter because I'm not going back to Fiat. Like, that we burnt the ships. And there's so many of us that are on the same page. So it's like, I think a lot of our friends and all of us that congregate on Twitter, we're all kind of feeling the same thing, but like no one really wants to say. It's like, man, we're all fucking, we're like, fuck, we're all in on this and like, holy shit, how much longer can we do this? And like, you know, the meme, and I stole this from Vikingo. So shouts out to Vikingo on Twitter. The iteration of Matt O'Dow, stay humble, stack sets. I think it's like it's the perfect, not only illiteration, but it's the perfect ending to the meme. Stay humble, stack sat, stay solvent guys. And it's kind of what I said in the beginning. I've had so many friends that. wreck themselves when they thought, you know, we were going to 100K. Everyone, everyone drank the plan B cool lady, including me. And, you know, we all got fucking wrecked.

And my shining grace is basically, you know, how Foss says it. Like, don't be too smart by half. I'm no financial wizard. All I know is stack, sats and take it to cold storage. And even in even around like the 50, 60Ks, I think we were all feeling like, I remember conversations with friends where we were all sitting here like, man, you know, should I take like an unchained loan out on my Bitcoin? Like, oh, can I, you know, can I leverage this? How can I make, how can I stack more sets? And I very like clearly remember the moment of like having

those conversations and then be like, no, like even talking to myself in third person, like, no, opti, like stay humble. Like, don't be a fucking idiot. Like, you've worked very hard for this. And I've told this story before. Like, before I went all in on Bitcoin, I was literally digging ditches, guys, like legitimately doing manual labor to stack sets. And now, and this is why I love Bitcoin so much because it legitimately changed my life for in every aspect. I say it all the time, you know, like I'm fitter than I ever been. I'm happier than I ever been. My finances are in a better place than I ever been. And I can really only attribute it to, you know, all the Bitcoin memes out there. And I know there's more Bitcoiners like us that are

all in that have dedicated everything. We, you know, burnt the ships behind us and we're like, okay, like I finally have a nest egg and I can go all in on Bitcoin. And I think that's why we're all kind of like, holy shit. Like, you know, we know Bitcoin isn't going down, but still there's like the mental thought of like, fuck, you know, like some of us have family and kids and, you know, like some of us have like real business and bills and shit. And we're like, fuck, man.

Like, we went all in on this at the bottom of the bear market. Like, what kind of fucking idiot am I? And then you just like double down. You're like, nope, like, I am right. Fuck all you. It's like the meme, you know, that's a crowd telling you like you're wrong. You're like, no, fuck you. I am right.

Mike, this is the feeling that I'm getting it. And, you know, we say, Nico says it all the time. Like Buckele and Sailor will get vindicated in this next bull run. But really, like, all of you guys out there, all of us, like, it will really be shown to the whole world, to our friends and family that we were right. We made the right decision. You know, as the saying goes, you have to risk it for the biscuit. And I think moving forward, like, again, one of the things that I'm so excited for is to see

how much more human capital is going to get. released and just seeing what everyone's doing out there like man you know just because you don't work in bitcoin doesn't mean you're not a bitcoins or like provide value use your skills however like whatever skills you have use them to your best of abilities double down work overtime saving bitcoin and in time if that's not what you want to be doing well you know you need to have some savings and some capital and right now it's at 25k and you can still potentially get yourself a solid stack of bitcoin while all of our friends are fucking spending sats left and right just to survive. It's like this is the opportunity that we all were waiting for

at 69K. Like every one of us was like, man, I hope Bitcoin price goes down again so I could sack some more. And then it goes down. We're like, no, not that low, bro. Like, I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. I don't want to be this broke. But I am just so bullish on like my friends that are building again, just the amount of conversation that I'm hearing around Bitcoin. You know, even hearing like, look, guys, I don't have a wife or anything. So like, I still talk to Norma girls. And even hearing them talk shit about crypto bros, I'm like, this is so fucking bullish.

Like I'm so hyped that it's even in their lexicon and their, like, the public consciousness. You know, we have Bill Burr talking about Federal Reserve. We have Lewis CK dunking on Bitcoiners. Like, this is our meme world and everyone else is just lip-it, guys. Like, it's only a matter of time until the liquidity and the supply match real-time, like, uh, What do you call it? Demand for Bitcoin.

And I say it all the time. You know, the Bitcoin price is a real-time metric of people's understanding of Bitcoin. And guys, I don't know if you can tell, but it's 25K, which means no one understands what the fuck Bitcoin is. And this is the asymmetric opportunity of a lifetime

and just do whatever you can to build Bitcoin businesses or trade your fiat for Bitcoin. Like, this is the time. Like, this is what we were born for. What's the mean? Like, too old to explore space? Like, too, I don't know. I don't know. Perfect timing for hard money or whatever.

Too young to explore his face, but just old enough to get shot by an IRS agent, right? Hey! I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay, I got two things to say, and then I'm going to toss it to Joey for his reason. So, number one, okay, I'm going to, I want to reminisce on Opti you were talking about like those moments when we should have known. it was like the top of the bull run. Yeah, I should have been. Like I remember my moment vividly. And I shouldn't have because I was loaded.

But I was sitting in my kitchen with my good friend Dave, who has come to, he always comes to all the events and everything. He's been to all the conferences. And so a couple of you guys have probably actually met him. But anyways, we're sitting there. And I remember, like, through the bull run, he'd swing by. And if we had had an all-time high since I'd last seen him, then we'd share an all-time high riot together. And so we'd pour a couple glasses of rye.

And so on this specific one, it was like, it must have been, you know, probably like 58K gang, somewhere around that realm. And I remember sitting there drunk off my ass. and and I was like, I remember the words that I said, it's like a cheat code for life. Like thinking like we knew it was going to be 100K and like all these things are going to happen. And like at this price,

you go and do this. And like, again, like Ivan alluded to like if you're planning for certain price points, then you're planning for what you're going to do with the fiat. when you know like you're not in the bitcoin mindset you're not in the i'm going to provide value and spend less than i earn i it's the you know hopefully my bags are are big enough that i'll be able to unload a little bit and get you know x y and z and that was what was happening then it was like the oh we know everything it's going to a hundred and two hundred and three like that was

like the mentality of like you know the the the the plan be mentality I guess was was like it was pumping through everybody's veins and it should have been every single person you know it's it's impossible to do when you're in it but every single person should have been like wow what did I just say out loud myself included everyone was guilty of it but here we are and the other thing I was going to say was Bitcoin is is a double-edged sword because in every form of market, you're both vindicated and dumped on by different people. Because when it's a bull run, you're vindicated against the no-cointers. For two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that too. But like when it's going up, when it's like a solid year of green candles and you're celebrating, yeah, you're telling all the

fiat economists like, yeah, you guys were all idiots. Of course this was going to happen. But you know who's dunking on you for the time being is the shit coiners because they still exist and they're you know because it's like penny stocks everything's pumping for the time being and then when it turns around it's the bear market sure you get to dunk on the shit corners and be like see i told you everything was fucking going to zero it was all trash you guys are wrecked but then what's happening to you on the other side the fiat economists are going of course it was a bubble this was bound to happen of course Bitcoin is is wrecked. Like that, that you're you're you're able to give it and get it from two different groups of people depending on the market. And so like, you know, I guess you just got to

take the victories where they come and then just kind of like sit back and and knowingly accept that some people will just have to go through another cycle to kind of realize what's up. But anyways. I wonder Bitcoiners are crazy. No wonder we're all bad shit crazy. We get no peace. There's never a point where everybody's just like, oh, you were right. No, there's always somebody trying to dunk on you.

One day, one day there will be that moment, but there's always going to be speculative. Yeah, there's going to always be speculative bullshit. So there's always going to be somebody being like, you should have bought this stock or whatever. Anyways. Okay. Gentlemen, I'm conscious of time. I'm going to rotate here. I'm going to toss it to Joey.

And I'm going to cue it up. And same question to you, man. Why are you bullish? Take it away. I'm going to keep it short. Not about drive chains, but just the reaction from the Bitcoin community, specifically some of the heavyweight OGs on Storke's BIP campaign and Layer 2 Labs BIP campaign. We mentioned this on our show the other night.

Len and I've been talking about this a lot. And I'm sure you guys talk about it as well or think about it and chat about it with your buddies in Bitcoin. I don't care what the BIP is. I don't care about drive chain. I don't really want to talk about it. But it's amazing to see that in a world where, like we mentioned, literally every quote unquote authority figure,

authoritative institution, government, interest group, they're all fucking wrong 100% of the time. Batting 1,000 going the wrong fucking way. All of them. It never stops. And in Bitcoin, you can go back to, 2017, like you guys mentioned, that

ICO kind of nonsense, the B-Cash, Ninja Launch, all that shit. We were right about all that coming through 2017, 18, 19. And then when the lockdowns happened, we were right about that too. And we write about a lot of other things, not related to Bitcoin for a long fucking time in that space. A long fucking

time. That is a curious group. It's a skeptical group, and it's a group that takes time to weigh the costs and benefits of everything presented to them, whether it's about Bitcoin or something else, It never fails. These guys always do the work.

And I've been really happy to see the high signal from Bitcoiners about drive chains. And I'll point to a couple of things. One in particular, if you had Pierre Rochard and your bingo cards tonight, you're drinking again. So I'm going to bring them up as Opti did. Yeah, exactly. So he like, you know, when those guys, when him and Bittstein release a podcast, okay, you got to stop what you're doing. You got to turn on noted. You got to listen to whatever shitty class.

music they pick to start the show. And then you got to listen to what they talk about. Okay, you got to listen to those guys. And then you got to listen to whatever they put at the end. I don't know if you guys listen to that one about drive chains. I was laughing my ass off. Pierre put in like an like hastily cut

part of some Twitter space with Paul where they're yelling at each other. No one is talking. Like they're always talking over each other. There's no signal there at all. They're just fucking arguing. But that's like that's an important thing. And Pierre and guys like Francis and DK, you guys, I think a lot of new Bitcoiners in 2017 that ICO crazed didn't have

that kind of signal. There was no campfire then. In 2020, when the price dropped at COVID during COVID, you know, I know a lot of people who loaded up. I loaded up. I'm sure you guys loaded up. But I know a lot of people who panicked, Seoul didn't know what to do. When it came to whether or not to embrace stuff like drive change, ordinals, NFTs, whether

to buy Ethereum on proof of stake, all that stuff, right? the hive mind, the immune response in Bitcoin is incredible. And I have never been more bullish on pinning down and tapping out scams as they enter the ring one after another after another. Because I think that we're in a position now. We can do that no matter what the scam is. And I'm so happy to be part of it. I'm sure you guys are too. So that's why I'm bullish.

I love that, man. It's, I think you're right. Bitcoiners are it's the scrutiny it's I mean it's it's what we it's literally what we talked about today is the vitriol

that you that you see on on Twitter and and these other forums it's also rooted in a group of people that scrutinize everything

and really try to examine things and so So, you know, part of me, it's exhausting, right? It's exhausting. It's not easy. It's fucking hard. And sometimes you got like, sometimes you just don't, you're like, I don't know. Like, what's this new thing that I have to figure out and have a position on?

Holy shit. But like at the end of the day, it comes down to we're dealing with something that could completely change the trajectory. of humanity, right? Like it's no small thing to have a person be able to take the fruits of their labor and distill it down into a digital form and store it for all eternity if they wanted and not have it debased. That is a powerful thing that we have here. And so it's it takes a certain type of.

person to defend that. And the second we forget about that, the second that we don't look at everything, I mean, look at, look at tap root, right? Like, you know, there's, there's, there's some very useful things with it. But also there's, there's some tradeoffs there. And I think a lot of people didn't realize that it's not just hard forks that you got to look out for. Like, you got to realize like, hey, the soft forks have implications. And if you want to undo a soft fork, that's a hard fork. And so I think, you know, we've got some PTSD in and around the fork wars, in and around the fallout from Taproot and the unexpected consequences of like how widespread, you know, shoving JPEGs on the block stream, on the blockchain.

No, go go use Blockstream for that. Oh, conspiracies go out of the chat. No, if anything, Blogstream has given them an outlet for that if they really want it. They should just use that and say. But nonetheless, like, you need to scrutinize everything when it comes to this, this technology that will affect generations beyond your lifetime. And you can see it in the way people, again, like I'm going to throw back to, you know, I just got back from Europe. I was gone for most of the summer, but like you can see it in the architecture there, like the difference between like they were building things for generations yet to come

with their own blood, sweat, and tears. Whereas now they're building shit on borrowed money from a generation they'll never meet. And it comes through with the work that they've done. And so like you see these buildings in Europe that have been standing for hundreds or thousands of years and they're beautifully adorned and they're built with the most meticulous of vision. Like you look up at the top of some of these

churches and monasteries and stuff and the detail in the top of a peak that nobody will ever be able to actually see is still immaculate. And you look now and it's like a, you know, a cement box. And so Well, you can't even get the right

You can't go to Tim Horton's Get the right top like in your coffee Let alone a fucking church Like a 20 story You can't We fall in so far Ben Like there's nothing we do now Has any staying power

It's by design And this is why to Jaime's point in the chat The social layer The social layer is about reminding people What you're giving up Demands that you get something As high quality in return And Bitcoin is that high quality return

That you should be looking for Not Fiat That's where that's where this is. Yeah. Again, like the architecture reference, those people knew that those things were going to be around for generations. And so they gave a shit how they built it and how much care they put into it. And the buildings that come around today, there's whatever, this shit's going to be probably imploded in a decade or two. And then it'll be replaced with a new high rise, made a glass.

Who cares, whatever. But now we actually have something that's going to be around for generations. and generations. And that's why people are so passionate about this. That's why people are willing to get on and scream at somebody on a Twitter space for three hours. Like this is where that passion comes from because this shit, it doesn't just matter for us.

It matters for our kids. And that's important. It matters for our grandkids. But it matters for like our great, great grandchildren. And it's going to be there. And they're going to be able to look back and be like, wow, those people five generations ago were, we're building. and arguing about this before it became ossified as it is now.

Like how crazy must that have been to be there, to know a world before Bitcoin existed, before like the lifeblood of our, of our fruits of our labor came to fruition. And somebody could just corrupt it at the push of a button. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I want to toss it to Ivan and then toss it to opt to get your thoughts, but Ivan, I'll all queue it up for you first.

I don't know. I'll just let you riff on wherever you see fit. Yeah, about us recognizing what would be a scam, what would be a problem in this whole ecosystem. I think we should also accept it humbly and actually embrace it because I'm a huge fan of David Goggins, that there is no finish. line. And if we become complacent, that is where things will have problems. So yeah, I'm literally just finishing his second book right now. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely let's embrace the attacks from whatever shape or form because when we deal with it, when we face them, that means that we are stronger on the other end and us expecting all let's again number go up and things get easier and easier that is where

problems occur like yeah it's not nice obviously and when you see problems occurring in the system when you're in the middle of it like three months ago or something when the fee spiked yeah it wasn't nice from the whole ecosystem and somebody took a victory alive prematurely, but everybody in the space worked on that particular problem because that was a pain point at that current time. And at the other end, maybe we need to do even more, but everybody in the ecosystem was dealing with that particular pain at that particular time. And it's so good that this is constantly attacked. Because when we get to the point that all the attackers actually capitulate,

then they come on our side and then you become this indestructible thing. But I don't think that we should ever expect the attacks to stop. And also, I don't think that it will be here. healthy the attacks to stop because that's where you become vulnerable. And when you go through something like this, and whether it's a debate, whether it's a shouting match or whatever, we're doing like the miners are doing. We are hushing it out.

And at the end of that, you come with the proper result. So that's kind of my thoughts about this. Let's embrace all the attacks. Yeah, it's frustrating sometimes. Yeah, but we should never ever stop and let's again build on top of it. Love it. Toss it to Opti. Opti.

Hold on. Before I go, I have to give you guys some of these. Wow, I was literally getting shivers while you guys, you know, goosebumps while you guys were talking. Like, that's the kind of energy. Jeez. Let me compose myself right now. I need buttons for that shit, man. I need that board.

Holy shit. All right, hold on. I got one more for you guys since Yella's been roasting me all day. One sec. Don't stop believing. God'll do that feeling. Ben, I'll give you the lowdown on what I'm doing, what I'm using later after we get off. But anyways, to start off this point to Joey's point, I might even said this earlier.

Maybe I thought I said it and I didn't say it yet. But I really do believe that like the Bitcoin only signal is so strong now as if you're a newbie coming into the space. Like I really don't think that people have the excuse to be shit coiners unless they are acknowledging that they are going into the shit coin casino and they're gambling. Like, hey, if you knowingly go into the shit coin casino and you're doing it with intent, then hey, by all means, you know, have fun staying poor, whatever. like this is not what we're here to do but as we were saying you know in 2017 when i joined twitter when i joined bitcoin like we had to go through all the shit coin accounts to like i used to say like i don't know how i got to the center of the titsy pop and i'm in the middle of the target here but like i somehow found the signal and just latched onto it and that was like my saving grace i asked myself one question you know

like what is bitcoin i have to understand bitcoin before i can figure out what these other shitcoins are and now I think due to all of our efforts, you know, whether it's Joey, whether it's sessions, whether even Ivan working for Breeze and stuff and everyone else out in the chat that makes Bitcoin content, it's just like the Bitcoin only net has gotten so big that and not only so big, but we've all iterated and we battled each other and battled these ideas for so long in the public square that like we're all getting better at talking about Bitcoin. We're all getting better at spreading the Bitcoin signal. And I really don't think people have the excuse to become shit-cointers because of all of us just talking about Bitcoin and being Bitcoin only and

just doubling down on that mission. And I'm just like it's, I don't know if I'd say like, you know, Loki, it's just fulfilling, but like it's just so beautiful to be a part of like what you guys were saying. You know, like I didn't dedicate my whole life to Bitcoin because it's something that I have fun with. Like it really gives you purpose. And it's really one of these things where I feel we can build a long-lasting legacy. And I really do believe that, you know, what we're doing here is Bitcoin is akin to what the founding fathers did with the Constitution. Like, this is what we're building.

We're building something that can last. We're building something that will fundamentally change the fabric of the world. And this is why I sacrifice everything. I've dedicated everything to Bitcoin because I really do believe in the message of fix the money, fix the world. Once you understand what the problem of the world is, which is obviously as a Bitcoiner, we boil it down to the Fiat money printer or Fiat money in general and the fact that they can print this much money for perpetual wars as possible. And all the fucked up shit in the world that we don't like, sorry, yellow is yelling at me for cussing. But hey, this is the why are we

bullish? And we do this shit live. Anyways, like we are really building the monoliths that will last forever. And again, I said the stupid quote earlier of like, we are too old to explore space. And, you know, we were born too late to build the Coliseums. But we are here at this specific moment in time to usher in the Bitcoin standard. And if that doesn't get you fucking goosebumps, like if that doesn't get you excited, if you have lost your way through this bear market, because I really do feel like a lot of us has lost some focus here and you know we're all going at each other's necks and it's like fuck you it's like no fuck you like what's that one that one uh dog meme of like uh johnie hey tony fuck you what's your name what's your name fuck you know like i really do feel like

we're at that moment of the bear market and it's happened before and it happens in cycles guys and it's part of the process. You know, like we've said it in the past. One of my friends, St. Bitcoin, he, I don't know if he's the first one to say it, but he basically was the first one that I remember saying. And he said, like, Pleb sharpens Pleb or Iron Sharpens Iron. And throughout this whole process, damn, I'm broke.

I will never recover from this. I really do feel that, like, personally, through the 2023 bear market, like I wouldn't take anything back because I've grown, I've matured every battle, every obstacle that I've had to go through this year, every, you know,

price dip that I had to like sit myself in the mirror, you know, take a hot or a cold shower and fetal position and be like, oh my God, is it over? Like, it really builds character.

And, you know, David Goggins book and the reference, like, I absolutely love David Goggins. you know, stay hard. Like, he's an absolute legend. And I really do love that kind of mentality when it comes to Bitcoiners and how we should be looking at this.

Like, this shit's fucking serious, bro. Like, I don't know about you guys, but every, basically every ill of the world is sponsored by the Fiat Money printer. And we're taking away that power and hopefully ushering in a better world. And if that isn't something you wake up excited to fight for, if you don't look, at the world burning around you and not getting excited and not crumbling at the fact of like the sheer, I don't know, pessimism of everyone around us. Like, we have purpose.

And kind of back to what Ivan said, you know, like the best way to get this message across is living a good life. And if the whole fucking world is burning, guys, and you're living a good life, you're happy, you're fit, you're prospering. Like, it's only going to become so much easier for people to be like, what the hell are they doing? How are they so happy? Like, this is very serious and you should take it seriously. And I brought up my friend Tarantula. I was on the phone with him. And we were like, low-key joking about like, oh, shit, like, you know, I need to get into like the gym and like legitimately

work out like I'm going to war. And we're like, yeah, like that's what you guys should be doing. Like, that's the energy that I think Bitcoiners should have. And we're like, man, it's just hard not to get bullish throughout all of this stuff when you know there's other people like that. And Joey, I'm so glad you brought up noted because I wouldn't be here without Bittstein and Piero Schard. Like they are the ones that, you know, like Stefan Lavera, the noted podcast, Marty Benton and Matt O'Dell. Like they're the reasons why I got orange-pilled in the first place and then went down the rabbit hole even farther. And man, like I never even looked into the drive chain shit. Like I was just like, you know what?

Like I just saw some tweets of them and I'm like, hey, you know, I don't want to outsource my thinking. but this makes perfect sense. Don't care. I'm here for hard money. I'm here to ensure that the world has a solid store of value and that we can transact freely in a world that is heading very clearly towards a dystopian, tyrannical future. And that's not the world I want to live in.

You know, God willing, I have children and a family soon. I don't want to leave them a world like that. And so this is why I wake up. And, you know, to be fair, I do forget some of this stuff every once in a while. You know, you wake up. It's still a job. You wake up like, fine. I got to work today.

But it's like once you remember why you fucking huddle, guys, it's so much easier. It's, it's so awesome to just be a part of this. Be frontline soldiers with you guys. And of course, guys, like, I'm still human. I'm not perfect. But like, I try to live up to the principles of Bitcoin, principles of truth, principles of honor, you know, not fucking defrauding people. Like being someone that other people can look up to, someone that my family can look up to

and be proud of. Like, I think this is what Bitcoin. is bringing back to the world. And we all know the meme that Claus Schwab said, you know, we will all owe nothing and be happy. Well, we will flip this around.

And part of that, oh, nothing and be happy is literally make you broke, poor, or wait, no, poor, stupid, and literally destitute and have no hope for the future. Well,

this is why we're going to fucking win because we're going to have capital, we're going to be fit, and we're going to have fucking optimism and hope for the future. And you can't kill that. Like there's nothing that anyone can do to kill this idea, especially with all you soldiers out there that are continuing to double down on the Bitcoin standard, continuing to show up every single day. You know, even, even, you know, the white blood cells attacking each other Bitcoin.

Hey, it's all making us stronger. This is why we'll win is because, like, you know, the Fiat, corporate press can't even can't even be good critics in regards to Bitcoin. The best critics I know are my fellow Bitcoin friends. So like, hey, you know, if our critics out there can't shoot us in the heel like our Bitcoin nurse will, like we fucking won, bro. Like it's already over. Like it's done. Like it's only a matter of time until the world understands that Bitcoin is the way. And hey, we have built this stuff for everyone, you know, whether it's us on the media front, on the propaganda front is like to say.

Or, you know, like Ivan, a part of breeze, like building the tools, like minimizing the friction so that people can hold Bitcoin. that's all that really matters. Getting people to download Bitcoin wallet and transact in Bitcoin. All the rest of it is noise. And from every metric, I'm seeing more and more people come to Bitcoin and more and more people wake up to the problem that is inflation, that is the debasement of currencies.

And they are asking for a solution. Well, hey, guys, we got that solution and it's Bitcoin. I love it. Opti, I have to tell you something. Look, me. So my wife, Lisa, she thoroughly enjoys hanging out with you when we hung out in Miami and everything. But also, I can tell you when she watches this show back, she's going to fucking hate you. And you know why?

The reason why is when she's clipping up stuff, I'm always like, can you grab like two to three minute clips? Oh, and I ran for like 15. He sounds like a guy who's like talking at a wedding But didn't write anything down Like that's what he reminds me up It's like I have one more thing And then So let me tell you about this one time

No shit take the mic Take the mic You can't fake passion And that's what we got for sure At Lisa I'll tell you when she gets to this episode Or she'll tweet at you and be like Fuck you Opti

See this is my problem I am not, I'm not succinct. I am long-winded and I yell and I, you know, I fluctuate my voice a lot, you know, like, I wish I could be like sound bites, but I'm high-level regard. It's like you, I love how you like you bookend thoughts with air horns is my favorite part. Yeah, listen. That's cool motherfucking boy. Perfect.

I love it. I need the soundboard. It's going to happen. Wait, wait, one more, one more. You're against Bitcoin. You're against Bitcoin. freedom. I love it.

Had to add it in there. Awesome. Gentlemen, this was a blast. I like to finish up each episode with just a quick round, really quick. Any final thought you want to throw out there and any recommendation you want to throw out there. And what I mean by recommendation is if there's something that you've come across, whether it be a book, a pod, a website, an app, a device.

or just some general lesson or piece of life advice you want to throw out there. There's something that you think people watching may find value in. This is your opportunity to toss it out there. So I'll start us off with just kind of final thoughts here. Yeah, I mean, we're, bear markets are tough. You know, they, they, this one is is the longest, right? Like it is, I think I saw some, some tweets the other day. It's, it's the longest bear market that we've,

And holy shit, can you ever tell? But on the other side of that, especially people that've never been through like a full cycle, oh, God, the vindication is so sweet when you finally get and you're like, okay. I remember listening to live streams and everything as we finally, finally pierced that previous all time high from 2017. when we hit it in 2021 near the end of the year. And it was, sorry, when we hit it in 2020 near the end of the year. And like, everybody was just ecstatic. And I remember at the, the, in the morning American Hoddle tweeted out like a video of him. He was like popping a champagne bottle like six day and a half giving it a chug on his lawn.

And like, so I don't get a fuck. I waited so long for this. Like it feels nice when you come out the other side of that. And the camaraderie of being like, hey, I got through all of this. I held my conviction. I continued to do what I thought was right. And hopefully I also built something meaningful in the downtime. And I think this turnaround will be no different.

Like coming out the other side of it and being able to look across to the people, that you've kind of weathered this from, weathered this with, and be able to say like, you know, there's this mutual understanding that you, you don't necessarily have with somebody that hasn't experienced a full cycle with you.

And it's like this weird, unique bond of like, holy shit, that was four years. And I think it's, it's, I think there's a possible, that a lot of us are going to think of our this time in our lives, especially when,

when like the havings held actual significance when it came to like the fluctuations of Bitcoin, you know, before the havings are are much less of a meaningful impact. I think a lot of us are going to look back at this period in our lives and say, we'll think in epochs. We're going to think in like four year chunks of our lives are like, holy crap, remember that cycle? That was wild. And some of us may carry that on beyond where the epochs are actually meaningful in like a monetary and cyclical sense for Bitcoin. I think that may be something that like there's a bit of a culture for in the future. But yeah, I mean, my piece of advice for everybody is, is value your time during what seems like a bear market that goes on forever and spend it

doing things that build yourself as a person. And that doesn't just have to mean like monetarily and getting your your, you know, getting your financials in order. But it means like physically, you know, where are you at right now? spend some time on that. Like look at, look at your health because like, you know, if you stack a bunch of sats and you're not around to enjoy them with your family

later on in life, then what the hell are you doing? Yeah, there's generations to come, but like you'd probably like to enjoy the generation that you're growing up with. So focus on that. Take the time. Eat healthy.

Go to the gym. Get some U-time in there. Get some something that's going to, that's not just going to build your stats. but build your body at the same time. Anyways, that's my piece of advice, I guess. Opti, let's get the Cliffs notes of your final thought. Hey, we're in sync.

We're in sync because I was going to say the same thing. It's like, guys, just put your horse blinders on, stack sats, provide value, build skills right now. This is the time before it gets crazy that you want to be stacking sets. And like, tune out all the bullshit. It's kind of what Ben was saying, you know, hardly will form. you into the person that you will need to become to usher in these sets. So what's that mean? You know, get fit mentally, get fit physically.

Get outside, touch some grass, lift some heavy things, get your body moving. Because I really do believe that you guys are walking billboards for Bitcoin. And, you know, hey, take a shower, groom yourself, smell good, look good. Like this is a one of the, it's way more important than just yelling at people autistically on Twitter. Like be a shining example of being a Bitcoin. and people will look to you for your leadership, for your understanding of the world, because I have one fundamental metric of what's going on.

And it's like, you know, the coyote ugly and the roadrunner. Like the moment we are in time is coyote running off the cliff and bitcoins are the ones that have looked down to their feet and realize they're off the cliff. Well, we have aligned with natural law, which means you will prosper, you will live good. And with living good, other people will look to you. So on that note, TLDR, we need more fucking Spartans in Bitcoin.

Act like it. be honorable, live a good life, and other people will want to hold Bitcoin as well. So, hey, I agree with you, Ben. Thanks for having me on, bro. Love it, love it. Ivan, tossing it to you. Final thoughts, recommendations, whatever you want here. Taz, take it away.

Yeah, I'm going to stick with the builders team. A little bit of a shoe, but for the people that don't know what's happening underneath the surface, Yes. We finally managed to make a webinar about Breeze SDK. And what always Jeff Booth says, if you can see what the builders are building, we made it in such a way that even if you're not a programmer, you can see the implications how this is going to change the landscape. because now you can actually have no knowledge about how to build on the lightning network. But if you know how to build an application, now you can just plug in the lightning network.

And everybody that's out there, whether it's in Africa, all around the world, it's going to be onboarded on the Bitcoin standard without KOC, without AMA, without all those fiat crap. And like when the bull market comes eventually, it is going to bring so much more people that are outside of our echo chamber that really need to understand deep what's going on. And I'm so excited about that

because we will proliferate that consciousness. And the builders that will build on Bitcoin will be not only Bitcoin, I love it. I love it. Yeah, hey, guys, if you haven't checked out what's going on with Breeze, you probably should. And the SDK stuff is super interesting. I went to dev day, hack day, whatever it was in Prague.

And that was super cool. You know, I'm not a developer. So certain things were over my head, but like the shit that like they built There was a build that happened in in in the event like in a one hour period like an app was effectively built out in front of us And it was pretty wild so a long time. I would say in the webinar we build this in 15 minutes. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly and and you're right and and and the only reason it took that long is because there was questions happening as it happened right like it was and so there's there's a lot of super interesting stuff that's happening and when somebody can build out like you're saying an app in 15 minutes like at its very basic level think of think of what people will be able to do with that think of the lightning landscape as it

is now which already comparatively to when I first started tinkering with lightning is insane but think of with these tools as they are right now what they're going to look like in a few years. Think of the next cycle. Think of the next bear market when people are bitching about, oh, you know, Bitcoin won't scale to like, you know, it's, it's only currently scaling to a billion people. It needs like eight times that. Like that, like that, this is what we're going to hear. Or like, what if eight billion people want to do 10,000 transactions a day? It's just not going to be able to do that. Like, we're going to hear these hilarious arguments. And again, throw back to Andreas Antonopoulos.

Bitcoin will continue to scale. How did he say it? It will continue to scale ungracefully into the future. You know, you bump against a wall. You figure it out and then you move, then you just power through that wall. It's, yeah, anyway. So, yeah, Ivan, I'm glad you brought that up.

Toss it to Joey here. Also, final thoughts, recommendations. Take it away, man. Sure, get in the gym. get under the barbell, do your fives, drink full fat milk, shut the fuck up, and keep growing your stack. This guy gets it. I love it. Awesome.

Gentlemen, thank you so much. Everybody watching, of course, all of these guys, their Twitter handles are linked in these show notes down below. You can follow them there, and then from there, follow everything else that they're up to. And guys, love to having you, and you're welcome back anytime. Thanks for having us. Thanks, man. Yeah. Cheers, guys.

All right, everybody watching. Thank you so much for being here. Of course, everybody in the chat. Thank you. It's always a blast having everybody. You know, McLevin, he loves that whole milk. Absolutely. Simmer following up.

Yeah, with the whole milk. Guys, thank you so much for being part of the chat. Thank you for being here. Of course, this was an absolute blast. I got to give a couple other shoutouts here. First of all, I want to give a shout out to everybody over on Noster. So again, I'm still figuring out, get piping the live stream in here. But here's the stream over on Noster in terms of the chat and everybody.

Now, I got to I get to give some thanks to the zappers out there. So Verberchia zapped me 420 sets. The grinder zapped 121. Verberchia again, zap with a, a solid 10k sats and said Brave New World, wild hustle zapped 221, and Lastus zapped 2.1K. Thank you guys.

That does, like, sats are precious. They mean a lot. I really do appreciate that you're zapping any sats my way. Thank you so much. And of course, I want to say, again,

thank you guys for watching. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button. The like button just below the screen. if you're on if you're on youtube if you're on nostrid give this a share give it a little repost that's always super helpful um and yeah it helps the show get in front of more eyeballs you can help the show in another way you can hit up the sponsors that i mentioned down below all hottle coin kite cdoor nunchuck start nine they're all down here um apart from that hey are you going to

pacific bitcoin because if you are uh i'm hosting my workshop series there it's going to be a blast i've got two workshops that I'm doing there. Number one is I'm doing a workshop on Nunchuk wallet on mobile plus the tap signer. How the hell do you work those two things? Plus, how do you set up a multi-sig with tap signer and Nunchuk? So that's going to be in the morning from 9 to 12. And then in the afternoon, from 1 till 5, a 4 hour deep dive on the cold card. How do you set it up?

How do you use it with sparrow wallet on your desktop? Do air gap transactions, wipe and restore. And then on top of that, we're going to get into some of the advanced features. It's going to be an absolute marathon. I've got deals. If you go to both workshops, you can grab tickets there. Or you can just go to whichever one applies most to you. And on top of that, you can also pre-order the hardware is for pickup at the actual workshop.

Where the hell do you find this? Just go to my website, btccessions.ca. It's over on the right-hand side or under in-person workshops. And yeah, that's for Pacific Bitcoin. You can also book me for one-on-ones if you care to do so. But in terms of Pacific Bitcoin, that is happening October 5th and 6th in L.A. The workshops will be on Saturday, October 7th. And hey, if you still need tickets for Pacific, you can use code sessions for 21% off.

And yeah, hopefully that'll help you. But nonetheless, thank you guys for being here. I appreciate you all. awesome and everybody in the chat. Thanks a bunch for being part of the show as always. Anyways, guys, I'm going to log off here. I had a blast. Thanks to the guys.

Make sure you follow them. Again, they're all on the show notes. And that's it. Have a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. I'll see you guys next time for your daily session.