BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Rob Warren, Brian DeMint, PastorCoin - Unveil Their BULLISH Secrets ep361

Episode Date: August 26, 2023

In this panel show, Rob Warren, Brian DeMint, and PastorCoin reveal their secrets for being bullish on Bitcoin in today's markets. All the latest news, tech and BTC trends, this panel show has it all. Tune in to find out why we're bullish! FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/BikesandBitcoin https://twitter.com/BrianDeMint https://twitter.com/pastorcoin 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Nunchuk Wallet and their Honey Badger plan is a best in class assisted mutisig setup with built-in inheritance planning and NO KYC. Check them out today! https://nunchuk.io/ SEEDOR is one of the most robust metal backups on the market today. Get your SEEDOR starter set today! Use this link for 5% off. https://www.seedor.io/discount/BTCSESSIONS?redirect=%2Fcollections%2Fprodukte For US based customers: https://store.bitcoinmagazine.com/collections/hardware/products/seedor-safe-starter-set Start9 is your Bitcoin & lightning node, and full personal server - enabling you to take back control from the gatekeepers of your money and data! Grab Server Lite,One or Pro today and become truly self-sovereign! https://start9.com/ Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions HodlHodl is a NON-CUSTODIAL, NON-KYC solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION Free video tutorials not enough? Need some extra hand-holding when mastering self-custody, multisig, coinjoin, running a node, or other skills? Book me for a private session on my website! https://www.btcsessions.ca/ Been watching the show for a while? Like what you see? Help me cover my video costs by sending some sats over on my Geyser Fund page! https://geyser.fund/project/btcsessions

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. We're back. We're home. We're doing the show at a regular time. Sorry to those of you while I was doing the show over in Europe. It was morning time. And some of you may not have liked that.

But I understand. We're back to normal. I'm home to my studio. I did the news with Nico yesterday. It felt good to be back. And I've got a great lineup of panelists today. Super stoked to have them all. And they're all returning guests.

So very. excited about that too. Good to catch up with them and see what's new. Of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my good friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live. And thing sucks. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share, all those things. They help a ton and getting this in front of more eyeballs. particular, if you're on YouTube and you hit that like button, takes a second. It feeds the algorithmic gods to get this in front of more people. And that is very helpful. Anyways, without further ado,

I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we dive in, let's take a look at where we are in the market at the moment. As I pull it up, sorry, I was kind of flustered here. and wasn't fully prepared as I should have been. But nonetheless, once I get my screen going, and there it is, this is timechain calendar.com. We're currently sitting at 26,086 U.S. dollars per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 3,833 sets. In terms of fees, next block, you're looking at 18 stats per byte. If you're willing to wait a bit, 10 sets per byte should do you.

Don't be sending any transactions below. say four and a half, five sats per bite, because those are getting purged from the mempool. And in terms of Bitcoin mined, 19.47 million of them, that's 92.7% of all Bitcoin have been mined. Shout out to sponsors to the show, hoddlehottle.com if you're stagging stats and you have a few priorities in mind like peer to peer trading, instant self-custody, no KYC. This is a great place to do it. You can sign up with nothing more than an email address once you're in. Scroll down. Choose a currency, a payment method, an amount. You can start viewing offers. immediately. They also do have a peer-to-peer lending thing in which nothing's ever re-hypublicated.

And these are the guys behind Baltic Honey Badger, which is just around the corner. I'm really sad I can't be there this year. It is my daughter's first day at a new school, though. So dad hat on for that one. Either way, check out Hoddle, Hottle. Link is in the show notes. When you do stack some sats, you're going to want to secure it with some good hardware. Coin Kite kills it. I love my cold card Mark 4. I've got a ton of their stuff. The tap signer, sats card, block, clock, open dimes. Come on out soon. The cold card Q1 before the end of the year looks badass.

If you want to reserve it like I already have or pick up anything else, head to Quincite.com. You can use code BTC sessions for 5% off everything in the store. Don't forget solid backups. Cidor is one of the most robust steel backups on the market. They've got their disc and capsule design. It keeps your seed frays safe from the elements like fire, water, corrosion, all of that. They have a starter set, which allows you to.

with your giant ass mallet, basically set up your seed phrase. Two seed phrases in total, and you can be all set. And at any time, you can always get more discs and cylinders. So anyways, check them out. Links are down below for that. Last couple shoutouts, Nunchuk, if you're looking to dive into assisted multisig, these guys have you got you covered. I am using them myself as well.

Basically, you can set up a multi-sig in which they'll hold one key and you hold the rest. It's all done via mobile. they walk you through the whole thing. You use tap signer, cold card, a ton of other hardware. It has baked in inheritance planning. And the whole thing is K-YC-free. You don't need personal information to set it up and have it work for you. So check them out.

Links are down below and I've done the tutorial as well. And finally, start nine, your sovereign computing solution. You can set up your whole Bitcoin stack, core, lightning, mempool, space, a bunch of other stuff, your data, files, photos, passwords, all that kind of stuff, Noster relays and clients. Anyways, they've got plug-in-play devices. They're awesome. I'm running the Start 9 server pure,

but you can go anything from the light version all the way to what I'm running. And I love it. It works seamlessly while I was traveling, too. So check him out. Anyways, guys, enough of my rambling. That was Start9.com. Let's get in the guests.

So I want to welcome to the show, everybody returning. So we'll welcome Pastor Coyne. We're going to welcome Robert Warren, and we're going to welcome Brian DeMint. Thank you guys so much for being here. Very excited to have you all. I think like a quick round of intros would be fantastic just for anybody who's unfamiliar.

So maybe I'll go to, I'll go to, let me just do a little swap around here. So I'm not going to do it. It was all strange on me. I don't know. Anyways, Pastor Coin, I'm going to go to you first. Can you give yourself a little intro of people know about yourself? Yeah. So I go by Pastor Coin on Twitter or X.

I will know it's Twitter and I can't do this man I'm a boomer now it's Twitter forever it's hard yeah it is hard change is hard so I'm a pastor in to the communist tribes of Canada please pray for me because it's getting weird here and yeah I'm a bit coiner but I'm a Christian first and I love Jesus and I think Bitcoin just is a is a godly system so that's why I am here to promote those things. Dude, I'm glad to have you. Very excited to chat and see how things have been gone for you. Let's rotate down.

Rob, good to see you, man. What's new? Let me know who you are. Awesome, awesome. Well, pleasure to connect with everyone. My name's Rob Warren. Find me on Twitter, Bikes and Bitcoin. I am a Bitcoin miner, a card-carrying member of the Electrons Anonymous crew,

as I think we are quickly becoming known because of our dire, dire obsession with hash. The good kind, not the other kind. Now, I'm currently starting a new gig since the last chat. Join the team over at Riot Platforms as the manager of mining projects and operations analysis. So very, very exciting. There are lots of fun with some very, very smart people in the Bitcoin game on a turbo large Bitcoin mining site, 750 megawatts of installed capacity in Texas. with another gigawatt on the way outside of Dallas. So yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure to connect with everybody.

I can't wait to jump in. Awesome, man. Do you walk around with a carbon emission meter like Pierre? I emit immense amounts of carbon. Actually, I know that on Twitter I'm bikes and Bitcoin, but unfortunately, I do not have a motorcycle currently. Something about having a child under the age of a year made my wife, want to support us getting a second vehicle.

So I was doing this all proud. I got a truck and it is a Toyota Tundra, which I think I may have to take out an unchained loan just to pay for the gas for it. But I could not be happier to be contributing to the carbon of the world. Well, welcome, man. I'm glad to hear.

And we'll toss it over to Brian as well. Brian, good to see you, man. How you've been and let people know about yourself. Good to see you all. be on with you guys. Yeah, so my name is Brian DeMette. I'm the chief marketing officer for the Orange Pill app, and I wrote this book called Bitcoin Evangelism.

And that's it, man. That's why I'm here to hang out with you guys. I'm freaking bullish all the time. This is my favorite show. So getting to hop on is like the perfect end of the week. Yeah, it's a great way to end the week. Your book is adorning my shelf here. and it's got its nice home there.

And yeah, man, OPA, I was using that as I was traveling around. And it was cool to link up with some Bitcoiners while I was on the road. So awesome. Well, guys, let's dive into it. Anybody that's watching that's unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish. Really simple premise of the show. Each one of us comes with a reason for being bullish, something that we're excited about in and around Bitcoin. The flow of the show is super simple.

a person is going to drop a reason why they are bullish. They get to explain it, rant about it, whatever they see fit. And it can be anything. It doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be one specific thing. But anything in and around Bitcoin. Number two, altogether we're going to riff on that reason, questions, comments, rabbit holes, whatever we end up doing.

And then third, finally, we rotate to the next person until we've all had a turn. So reason, riff, rotate, simple as can be. Other than that, everybody in the chat, thanks for being here. keep your messages coming. The chat is live through the entire stream at the side of the screen. For better or worse, this is live. Again, anything can happen. Bill can attest to that.

So I'm going to kick us off here. I'm bullish and I need to be kind of specific here on my reasoning because there's a video I want to show. And I'm going to preface this by saying, never trust a politician. However, I find it encouraging when politicians outlines certain lines of thought and the populace begins to react positively to them. In particular, reactions to like anti-CBDC sentiment, anti-C central bank digital currency sentiment, general disdain for central banks, general disdain for government overreach and control over people's lives, and people

that are talking about more personal responsibility, more of a kind of live-and-let-live mentality, all of that kind of stuff. And so the person that I have in mind right now is kind of making the rounds because he's the frontrunner. In fact, he won the primary in Argentina. And Javier Milai, I believe, is how you say his name, Milai. Anyways, he's been on a rant.

He's been doing all kinds of interviews and everything. And he's very, like, he basically wants to shut down the central bank. He thinks it's actually absolute garbage. He thinks that central banks are effectively, it's a scam, is what he said. And he sees inflation as a hidden tax, as all of us kind of, I'm sure on the stage would agree that it is something to that effect. And he's also very favorable and seems to understand why.

Bitcoin, although he is trying to dollarize the nation. I can kind of understand why he might do that first. But anyways, I'm going to play a clip that I put on, I uploaded of one of his talks. It's probably one of the more subdued clips of him. But it gives a good kind of overview of his thoughts. So I'll show this. And then we'll kind of dive in and chat about thoughts here. So here we go.

But there are people that ponderance like a kind of a kind of a kind of alternative monetary. You think is possible in Argentina that discussion? A bit, what is the point?

The point is that the first that is that the bank central is a staph. It's a mechanism for the which the politicians

stafed to the people of the people of the taxionary. The Bitcoin what is the

return of the money to the creator original, What is the sector private? The money is an invention of the sector private

to resolve problems what has been in a economy in a economy of that would be the double coincidency and

the indivisibility and then appears the paper like a question of a question of portability because in reality you've had

different moned so you've the lino the trigo the sal the same there comes salary

the the superstition of if the salt in the the table and that evolutioned and the monedas that the money's that they were the individuals, they they were the money for the transactions chis, the gold for the transactions

grand. And that's, you know, it was, like, it was a a problem, so, what, they had? They'd have it deposited and they'd get them a, a comprobant of that that was there. And then, in 1,445, in the first Congress of Genoa, the, the states,

they appropriated to, you know, to to have the exclusivity to to be it. That's the course of that is the clave. Because the

because the course of what is what the political robartes with the impuesterer. The Bitcoin

has a algorithm and a day will get to a different quantity and there's more. And it

can't compete with other monies. Of the other. And what

is the interesting? What is the world? The world is the world.

But what is the problem? The problem is that the states not to want to cede that the course of forcoso, because of the course of force,

so they stafed with the imposterousin. So the Bitcoin is the reaction natural front of the staph, that are the banks central, and that the money will be private, and the contra-cara is that the politicians not to be able to permit to go to the course-forso. What is what you what you have, when you have economies with high inflation

and the problem of the staph is more clear, So, even to to discuss, as I plan I directly, eliminate the bank of central. So again, this is one of more, I think it's an earlier interview of him,

not more like more of the recent ones where he's gotten really animated about stuff and, you know, any types of collectivism, he just he completely blasts. He's very libertarian slash minarch

meaning like the absolute minimum amount of government necessary, just like basic needs of maybe like police and fire and stuff like that for for emergencies and, you know, maybe like a military in case somebody attacks your country. But outside of that, he's very like, let's just leave people alone. Let them live their lives. But yeah, he seems to he seems to have a line on why Bitcoin. He's very knowledgeable about kind of the history of money. Um, you know, he may be the next president, uh, of Argentina, which is wild, um, especially since they're the country that just signed a restructuring deal with the IMF that included that they had to, uh, be as adversarial to Bitcoin as possible in terms of their financial institutions. Um, and so I would love to see him get in and just, and just shit kick that whole IMF deal. and and and and and and maybe go down the route of maybe not bitcoin legal tender but encouraging people

to use things other than government created money um so i'm curious to hear you guys thoughts uh have you have you seen this before if you heard of this guy have you you know what are your initial reactions here anybody can dive in yeah you know that was a very tame video from him there are some where he is saying words that as a good family Christian man I won't repeat but he's calling people names he called the like liberals he's calling them like like their like their dog crap and you know right the interviewer's like surely not all of them he's like yes all of them you know like this guy just says whatever he wants and I I tend to this is why I like guys like Greg Foss because he just he just says it like it is and although you know we don't have to agree with his

language he he's right in a lot of what he says how do i bring gregg foss into this what have i just done sorry gregg a thousand bitcoiners yeah so right anyways what i like about this whole situation is not just him but i love seeing this tremendous divide among politicians now i mean you got clowns and morons like Justin Trudeau and Joe Biden running the show in North America, then you got Javier Malay in Argentina just setting the place on fire, saying stuff that if anybody in North America politicians said, it would be just you can't imagine it. You can't imagine it. So this divide is growing and you love to see it and I love to see it because it's, it's finally pushing back against against the circus, right?

What we need are some some strong, maybe a little bit insane men to storm the circus tents and just rip it down. I love that. Rob, what are your thoughts here? Oh, my, you know what? I've never seen that clip. And to be honest with you, I wasn't expecting us to go to 1455. and it struck me immediately that this is a guy who sounded more like a monetary academic than a politician. And it reminded me that there are only two reasons why anyone ever gets into Bitcoin, at least two that I know of.

So correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think I am. But correct me if I'm wrong, you either get into Bitcoin because you're greedy or because you have to. And you get into Bitcoin because you think number go up is coming and you're going to, you know, stack. like a maniac and you're going to be looking down from your citadel and all of your friends who did not huddle. Or you get into Bitcoin because you have watched your wealth evaporate. You've had to flee a country for almost purely humanitarian reasons. And there's been this really fascinating expansion of the Bitcoin space where there has been this kind of initial unfriendliness. You know, the Bitcoin progressives kind of showed up in the space and was like, what's going on? This is

this is an anarcho-capitalist and predominantly conservative space. And they showed up and they said, nah, dude, we're here for fundamental human rights. And at least personally, in my own hometown, I see different people showing up to the meetups who are not just interested in Bitcoin for the greed and the number go up. Or I'm in it for the technology, bro. But really, because they have to.

And Canada learned that lesson through illegal seizures of people's funds and bank accounts, something that you're more than familiar with. But Central and South America, who have been the tail end of the whip of world monetary policy, either through the United States or through the IMF, the International Monetary Fund, countries that have destroyed their currency, destroyed the wealth of their people, trying to suck off the teat of the glorious IMF who would give them a billion dollars and enslave them for the rest of their financial futures if they would just build this dam in the middle of the Amazon. It is finally coming to a point where I think we can see in real time what this community actually looks at.

like in practice, that it's not just all these sort of prototypical crypto grow number go up dudes. It's people who are coming in and saying, okay, I love the technology. I'm into this. And maybe I do like the number go up. There's an absolute necessity. And it's Bitcoin not just as an asset, but it's Bitcoin as a monetary tool. Are they living and breathing anti-fragile network? Yeah.

Yeah. I totally agree. And you see some of that with, I mean, I've begun kind of doing more work with, with the, with Gladstein and and and and the the HRF and I see it now more often than not people coming in saying like listen we can't get money to journalists we can't get money to dissidents or or whatever it may be we need a mechanism through which we can send them money and it's and it's from a it's from a perspective of of a of a again, general freedom as opposed to anything about monetary debasement. Like there's elements of that in some people's stories, but a lot of people, like I spoke with a woman from Nicaragua last year at one of these events. And she's asking questions about, you know, we set her up with a wallet,

taught her how to use lightning, all that kind of stuff. And she's like, wow, this is amazing. Like how do we, you know, what do we do once it gets there? like and that's the common issue is you know once it's on the ground once you once you move the money how to then you you get put it to work to get the things you need um but we're discussing all this and then in in in passing i mentioned the 21 million cap and she was like the the what and so she had no idea that it was a cap supply and it could never be changed by any individual or any politician and and her eyes lit up and she's like wow this is useful in an entirely different

way than I originally came here so it's like people are coming to it for very different reasons now but it can be useful in multiple ways for many different people and um again pastor to your point about seeing this divide i think it's a it's a divide between a top down mentality of control and a bottom-up mentality of personal responsibility. I think that's the division that we're seeing. But I want to toss it to Brian and let him have his say, you know, have you seen Javier before? What are your thoughts here?

I've been following him a little bit. Yeah, that was a great clip. I hadn't seen that one. I watched you and Nico do a breakdown on him from Simply Sessions. And one of the things we're overlooking here is the third street, right? he's potentially going to be the third streak of hair. And I just want to remind everybody that Ecclesiastes 412 says a cord of three strands is not easily broken.

So that's a really important thing to keep in mind here. But for real, I mean, that was for real. But moving on to why it's bullish, right? Because that's something to come. But the Henry Ford quote, we always come back to this, right? Henry Ford said, it's well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking or monetary system. for if they did, I believe there would be revolution before tomorrow morning. We're seeing the dawn of this.

This is happening. That's what these guys represent and pair that with. What did Fed Chairman Powell say recently when he was before Congress? It was his worst showing ever. When he doesn't have a script in front of him, he actually said that inflation is whatever people imagine it to be. So take that fact. Take the fact.

Compare what Henry Ford said with the fact that the Fed chairman said, it's a faith based system and now consider what is the most popular song in the world right now. And I don't cuss. I'm quoting. Okay. I don't cuss. I'm quoting. But it says, your dollar ain't shit. That's what the quote of the most famous song in the world says. So we have a faith based system where the greatest awakening of politicians and the most mover, the movers and shakers in the political realm are shaking the monetary system. The culture is being shaken from the most popular art. is being produced right now. We are winning.

Like this is the dawn of the new age. We are privileged. We were born for such a time as this. We are so privileged to be in this point. And as Bitcoiners, as the one championing this cause, freaking bullish, Ben,

I'm so pumped. I love you brought that up because, I mean, it just makes me think of so many things. Yeah, it's, yeah, we're seeing it everywhere.

And it's so there's a lot of things that you would never hear, you know, a run of the mail person say, just a few years ago of, of, you know, the word inflation was, was hardly ever thrown around. But the word, you know, hearing the term fiat money or fiat currency, nobody had ever really spoken that word other than, you know, a few Austrian economists and, and, you know, certainly nobody on mainstream television is certainly not your buddy, you know, that has become familiar with the difference between fiat and other currencies.

It's, there's definitely a global, you know, globally people's eyes are being opened to the fact that the money is broken. And it's happening in pockets everywhere with all different types of people. And some of people are regular, you know, blue collar workers that go to work every single day and they realize that they're being cheated and they're starting to understand how because there's great resources there to actually learn about it if you find it and get. on the right track. And then you also have people in government that are figuring it out that are going, oh, geez. And they, you know, I do believe that there's an element of a politician will say anything to get elected and maybe some of them see this as giving them an edge down the line for

as the tide's turn. But I think others are, you know, are just going to be fed up with it and see that it is BS. And who knows, maybe Javier is one of those. maybe Pollyev and Canada is one of those. Maybe, you know, Robert Kennedy is one of those. I don't know because I can't see inside people's heads. But at the end of the day, I think it kind of doesn't matter.

Because if the talking points are what sits in people's minds and they realize like, hey, central banks are a scam, I am being stolen from. And when you get elected on that premise and you do nothing, the people still have pinpointed what the problem is. And they have a mechanism for which to escape it. So I think that's why I'm bullish, not because, hey, there's another politician mentioning Bitcoin and saying that central banks are bad. But that the public in Argentina in this case responded to it so well that. he is leading. And that's impressive to me because it's the public sentiment that matters to me. And, and geez, that's a shift. So, yeah. Then if I could interject too on not just what's

happening in Argentina, because you said, you mentioned a few American candidates, a few United States politicians or presidential candidates. With Orange Palap and Satoshi Action Fund back in June, so not that long ago, we went to the Capitol. We gave 535 copies of the Bitcoin standard to every congressman and senator. Great pairing between Mateo coming up with the idea and then Dennis Porter executing it, knocking out of the park. But the coolest thing was because the feedback we got beforehand was like, these guys aren't going to read it.

They don't read the bills that they get put in front of them that they vote on. I agree that that's not, that wasn't what the hope. The hope was all of these guys had six to 10 staff members that are these young college interns. And when we went in, this was the really optimistic thing. We go in and we hand it to the staffers and we said,

hey, can you give this to the congressman? It's just a gift so he can learn about Bitcoin. A lot of them would say, I would say about 20% of them would actually verbally say this. They would say, you know what? Is it okay if we give it to Tim or to Sarah or to Jake on our staff? Because he's the one that the congressman is actually tasked with studying Bitcoin. That was the most bullish part.

It wasn't that the congressman was out there championing it. They have people on their team tasked with understanding this stuff. So just the inside baseball of that was really eye-opening for me of you study it and then you talk about it. Those guys are in the, we're studying it phase. You guys have you seen these videos going around of people like crying in their car because they can't pay their bills and they're like the country's broken. The money's broken. Like what's going like and they're confused and they have despair and it's really depressing. And I see these videos from, I should be looking at the camera, I see the videos from Americans and from from Canadians and from even all over the world.

And like Ben, you're right. The narrative is changing. And that's the most important part that people don't realize is it doesn't really matter what so-and-so says in some high office. What matters is what's the narrative and where is it going. And right now this narrative is changing and shifting. I recently ran a small group study of my book, my new book coming out, the Bible and Bitcoin, shameless shill. And in this book, I have a study guide in it.

So you can go through it and study it in small groups with your Christian friends. And so I did a beta test with my congregation. And you should have seen the jaws dropping from just your average Christian person who knows, man, something's not right with the money. It's broken. Everything's so expensive. They're confused. They don't know what.

As we're going through this study, the jaws hit the floor when they realized, oh my God, like literally. Wow. It's a scam. Yeah. It's a scam. The whole freaking thing is a scam.

And when that light bulb goes off, Bitcoin is easy. Once that light bulb goes off, it's like, and you show them Bitcoin. Here's what Bitcoin needs to go, well, that's the solution. It's not hard to figure it out once you see how big of a scam Fiat money is and how immoral Fiat money is.

So I think Habier Malay is just another brick in that, let's use the Bitcoin analogy, another block on that chain where the narrative is shifting and people are realizing it's getting to a boiling point. Something has to change and people feel it. And I think that's the biggest victory. the most bullish thing is your average normie is saying the money's broken. Awesome.

Yeah, I totally agree. And don't let me forget at the end of the show, I always do final thoughts and recommendations. And Pastor, if at the very end of the show, you can show your book and let people know the launch date. I know it's coming up soon. We'll give it a good chill so everybody knows where to grab it for those that are interested. I'm excited to give it a read. So and congrats on that, by the way. It came together nicely for you.

Yeah. Yeah. First time writing a book and self-publishing. So we'll see what happens. But yeah, it was a fun process. That's fantastic. You should bring it down to thank God for Bitcoin next year and have it as one of the ones that they have at the event. Yeah.

So actually, Jordan Bush, he wrote the first. forward. Oh, yeah, perfect. I love Jordan. Jordan fantastic. What a great guy. Cool. Awesome. All right. Well, gentlemen, I'm going to round out this topic. I don't want to take up too much time on mine, and I want to do a rotation. And so I'm going to go, I'm going to go to Rob first, and I'm going to just toss you the question that we're all going to eventually get here. Why are you bullish? Take it away, man. Oh, my goodness. Don't get me started. If you thought I was bullish in the bull market. And if you then thought I was bullish at the bear market when we were all having fun staying poor, you would not believe the bullishness that I am experiencing right now.

Because the things we are taking for granted right now are absolutely earth-shattering to the Bitcoin world of 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Earth-shattering. You know, Bitcoin was existential when I was kind of cutting my teeth in the Bitcoin world, cruising around. the subreddits and not even on bitcoin twitter at the time and you were seeing people having their huge uh huge fights about you know the chain wars the hash wars you were having roger verr posting blowing people up you were having beatash rage quits everything then was really existential and the etf that everybody would talk about was a meme it was this meme that was just kind of floated into the universe that just didn't have a snowball's chance because we were more worried about existential

things. We're about to have a chain split and have to figure out how to essentially recustody our stuff so that we could sweep our BCH. Thank you very much, Eric Borgheese and ShapeShift. Thank you very much to Roger Vair for that donation of Bitcoin that has been huddled since. But it's so boring. It's so boring. You know, like at the beginning of the bear market, everyone is kvetching, they're self-immolating, they're whining at each other. And everything is fine, but they're crying. It's like the everything is fine meme. But they're not. Everyone's freaking out because they, in some way, shape or form. Nobody likes to watch their net worth get, you know, immolated to the point of, you know, non-significance compared to where it was.

But the kinds of stuff that has happened just in the last six months is so far beyond anything that would be conceivable to somebody sitting, you know, myself included, somebody sitting in 2016 and 2017. It doesn't make any sense. Publicly traded Bitcoin mining companies, home mining companies, people buying buying and selling ASICs on the secondary market and using it to heat their houses, people schlepping ASICs out into the oil fields so that they could get rid of this excess natural gas applying for ETFs, presidential candidates talking about Bitcoin, single issue voters revolving around Bitcoin, if you could sit there in 2017 and you could write a post. And there was this very apocryphal

post back on Reddit back in the day. And it was this like time traveler meme. And I don't know if you've read it, but it's the guy that was writing this time traveler, me telling everyone to stop, stop, stop, stop using Bitcoin. And it was describing this dystopian world post hyper-bitcoinization. It's actually the origin of the term Bitcoin Citadel, but it was used in a disparaging way. It was used to essentially describe these people who had become ultra wealthy that lived on these mountaintops, basically armed guards 24-7 and nobody could get access to them while the sort of huddled masses were dying, assembled around them in the, you know, the cities

and suburbs that they were in. You know, that's the origin of the meme. And that was the kind of predicted future from the doomsayers and the dystopians. And to be in a place now where everything is boring and you have more than seven, eight ETFs being approved and people suing the SEC

and publicly traded Bitcoin companies and a slew of ways to self-custody and folks who have gone through the self-custody and gotten wrecked because they haven't done the right thing. And to have all done that in the public sphere and somehow continue to survive. I think that that's one of the greatest things on earth is that you should, as a general principle,

you should never take for granted the kinds of things that you didn't have back then and that you have now, you should always be counting your blessings. And I think that that because things are so boring right now, just undeniably boring, we're all just sitting here, like, waiting for Trump's mugshot

so we can make some memes. Like, I don't know, maybe a lot of change. And like, maybe a new country will pop up and say something about like, I don't know, like you want to make Bitcoin legal? Like everybody blinked when Riot said that they were going to buy over a hundred million dollars of Bitcoin miners from MicroBT. They were like, yeah, that's pretty sick. Over a, are you?

This was like small potatoes in the minds of people who were just like, yeah, I guess that's what we do now. Like, yeah, you're good for you guys. Like, we're really proud of you. But it's so boring. And all we're doing right now is building the launch pad from which we are absolutely going to rocket into. to what comes next. And so that's why I'm super excited

is because if you've made it this far and you're very likely class of like 2020, 21, 22, you made it. You know, cue the as we go. You made it. Like you survived. Like you have made it through the pain and the strife and your mom complaining to you

that you told her to buy $500 a Bitcoin and now it's only worth $340 a Bitcoin. You made it. You're here. And this is such a brilliant place to be because everything is kind of ascending from this point. And so I couldn't be more bullish because this is kind of where we are, but now we're doing the journey with so many more people.

I love that so much. It's easy to forget, but it brings me back to the days where the tiniest, most insignificant little shops would start accepting Bitcoin. And it would be like top page Reddit first post, like everybody freaking out, like a thousand up votes. And everybody's super excited. somebody goes and like pays with Bitcoin at a coffee shop and it was like whoa or like when was it new egg.com which i had never heard of before really all of a sudden they had they were

taking bitcoin and it was like i can buy all of these things with bitcoin and like you know when whenever any company made a mention of bitcoin or said that they might look into it or and and like in contrast the other day there was like oh the Europe has like a spot Bitcoin ETF and everybody's like oh yeah

that's cool like I mean I kind of don't give a shit about ETFs to be honest like in in the long run of things because I don't want to hold an ETF but like back in the day it would be like everybody losing their minds

and like again Canada's had like what six seven Bitcoin ETS for like two years or something. All of this stuff just gets kind of, you're right, it all gets glossed over. And, uh, and the bitcoins of 2015 would be, would, would be in hysterics over like 5% of the news that we see every single day now.

This is wild. I don't know. What do you other guys think? Um, I'm just checking to see if new eggs still takes Bitcoin because. They do. Wow, they still do. Okay, that's cool. I think cheap flights as well. Is it cheap flights or flight? There's some airline, I think it's cheap flights or something like that. But they also take Doge too.

Yeah, that's unfortunate. I mean, it's unfortunate for them mostly. Yeah. Yeah, I'm bullish. I've never been so bullish on the scarcity of Bitcoin. the finality of supply. There's this guy on YouTube named British Hoddle, hodel, however you say. I don't know if you've heard of this guy. If not, check him out.

Every time I watch this dude, I'm bullish, and he's always talking about finality of supply. Finality of supply. And it's like the stuff, the money that's coming in the Bitcoin, that's going to start flowing in the Bitcoin, dude, there's only 21 million of these things. That's all I have to say. there's only 21 million.

After that, it's done. Yeah. That's crazy. Like, think about that for a minute. We've never had an asset like this ever in human history. Where if demand goes out of control, you can't just make more. I mean, you're going to have exchanges saying, sorry, guys, get on the wait list, get to the back of the line. We don't have any for you.

it's going to get crazy yeah yeah 100% uh Brian what do you think are you equally bullish uh for rob's reason Rob that that's such a good insight man I mean I actually never really thought about that as as a reason to be bullish is the is this maturation if you want to call it that um because if we're not excited and and maybe a little bit jumpy to the ups and side, then we're not going to be so excitable and jumpy to the downside, right? Like it keeps you more even keel. And I'm fine with the Bitcoin market that's more even keel, that it's about the substance, right?

Because like Faster said, the 21 million guarantees that the buying power of it is going to go up. Like that's not what we're worried about. It's the iterative steps of Bitcoin. We know that more people are using it today than they were yesterday. We know there's more connections on the Bitcoin social air. We know that there's in Austin right now, there's a giant conference of more Bitcoiners getting employed, making more connections. Like all these different things are happening under the surface. It's the duck with the, you know, on the pond and his feet are moving.

We know that's happening. So that, man, that's an incredibly bullish insight. Like I said, I hadn't really thought about. And yeah, you pair that with what pastor said with the limited supply. Something I write about in my book is this, I call it capital flow inertia. at what theoretically what happens if you get to the point if all the bitcoin get sold right now there's no bitcoin what happens if if the price of the last bitcoin sold was 30,000 there's no ceiling to what the price of the very next bitcoin could be if every bitcoin goes into the hand

of somebody with high conviction then the next bitcoin could be sold from 30,0001 to 100,000 the next right like it's a bid market for the next bitcoin so we're not, I don't even like to think about it as far as price. And I think we're kind of all in that same boat. We think of it in terms of the buying power, the buying power appreciation of what I can get with my Bitcoin is going to go absolutely bananas because right now people aren't freaking out. And that means that when the market does start to get crazy, people aren't going to

let go with their Bitcoin for $55,000. They're not going to let go of it for $75,000. They're going to say, no, I will only let go of this when I can buy stuff with it. That's the only market I'm selling into is to buy food, to buy this, to buy like, like that's where Bitcoiners will sell. And that doesn't take place even on an exchange, right? That is highly held, highly, highly, highly secured, highly illiquid Bitcoin that makes the price and the buying power go absolutely insane.

So those two things paired together is like, man, I'm thinking about this. It's like, it's like, it's really, really exciting. I love that the, the idea of. that world when there's just the idea of exchanging, the idea that anybody would exchange their Bitcoin for another currency just starts to kind of go up the window and it becomes more and more difficult. And then it becomes a game of when you need goods and you're living on Bitcoin, then you become a lot more, you know, especially if you've experienced, you've experienced, you've experienced,

it's like a vast appreciation and the purchasing power of it over time, or you have a good knowledge that, hey, like, if I save, then that's all I have to do. I don't have to like, there's no additional step to save for retirement like now where you have to consciously a lot money and put it aside and then roll the dice on whatever gamble there is that you probably don't even understand and you put off to somebody else. Instead, you just do what you're good at. You spend less than you earn and you save in Bitcoin in your currency. And I love the idea that there'll be a point where it's like everybody's thought process will be,

do I need this? Do I actually need this? Do I want to spend the money or should I save for a later day? Do I just hold on and what do I actually need? and that forces, first of all, people are much better off for later in their future. They're able to more accurately look into the future and plan, not just for themselves, but for their kids and their grandkids, future generations and build a nest egg there. But number two, it forces anybody creating products and services to really up their game.

Because if somebody is going to scrutinize their purchases like that, then you better be on the top of your game because you've got to convince somebody to with Sats. That's going to be a hard sell if the money is actually worth something and continues to be worth more over time. And that's a world I would like to live in instead of trying to get my money out of my pockets before it goes down in value. This is why I think everybody misunderstands the Bitcoin fixes this meme. Like I'm totally convinced that everybody uses it, but they think they're using it in one way, but they really use it in another. When people say Bitcoin fixes this, they are often talking about like Bitcoin repairs it, right?

Like it, Bitcoin fixes this. It's like some hammer that just bangs on the world and the world is fixed. And that's dumb because that's not what, that's not the best way that you can read the idea to fix. You can read the idea to fix as in like repair, but you can read the idea to fix as in to like set solidly. To fix something is to like fix it in place. And this is honestly, this is what I think the Bitcoin fixes it means. Wow. Actually means.

And I think this is why you get folks and we've got two, two folks here are a perfect. cases of it. This is why you get folks who have this strong Christian religious conviction that are diehard advocates of Bitcoin because to have faith in something is to have a fixed perception, a fixed belief in something that is based on something. It's not something that kind of vacillates with whether you're living in 1,500 or 1,500 or 1,700 or 3,200, you know, AC, you know, after Christ's death, you know, it's something that is fixed. The values that somebody operates on is set in standard. And what we've been living in is we've been living in a world where these things are not set in standard. They're vacillating. We make monetary policy decisions

based off of people who are making expectations-based decisions off of what they say to us, trying to get us to modify our behaviors in the market, while we look at them knowing that they're lying to us, but waiting to hear what they say in terms of, of how we should change how we respond you know if you're going to change the rates up if you're going to change the rates down they don't make that decision based on like an actual formula or algorithm that they are cranking all this information into they're making this decision in a in a basis that is far more survey oriented that's why it's called expectations based policy it's not called based in firm truth and algorithmic certainty policy it's called expectations

based policy which means if i can BS you and i can change your expectations then i can unfix the way that you behave in the world. And this is why people are sick of this, is because they want to return to, they want to return to certainty, whether it's in their lives through their religious convictions or personal convictions, their values convictions,

and especially through their money convictions, which touches the way that we engage and trade in all these other ways. Wow. Yeah, that's good stuff. I, just to kind of round this out,

I again to to chat about kind of further down the line how how this manifests think of you know right now it's you know if we were to get to a Bitcoin standard um like I was saying the the the the future value of the currency kind of encourages more productivity uh and and more efficiency in terms of what people can accomplish in order to create products and services to encourage people to spend their sats. But they're always fighting against that urge to save for a later date because people have that absolute certainty like, hey, there's this number of coins and there's this many people. And so I think that that kind of equation of the population of earth times the pace of human innovation and productivity divided by 21 million is kind of our measure of of how wealthy as a species we can become. And it's and it's a circular thing because again, And it encourages that productivity.

It encourages people to build more stuff, but make it as reasonable of a price as possible. It encourages people to plan for the future because they know that their money is going to be worth more, which in turn, if they have that certainty into the future, they're much more likely to build and have families, which is something that we're going in the total opposite direction right now. Nobody wants to have kids. They can barely support themselves. They can't move out of the parents' basement.

because rent is insane. They'll never afford a home. Think of the inverse of that. Everybody, all of a sudden, the productivity of humanity goes through the roof. People are able to very easily afford a home and everything that they want. They begin to have families. You have people like that much more population, solving the world's problems, and creating better and better more productive means or better means of productions,

better products, better services. And it just, it snowballs on itself because the incentives of the money are there for a better society. Yeah. Jesus said, you'll know a tree by its fruit. And what has been the fruit of the Fiat experiment? WTF happened in 1971. That's been the fruit. Just go look at the charts. The fruit is devastation.

Divorce. obesity, you know, Safedine does a great job in the Fiat standard of unpacking the fruit of Fiat and what exactly Fiat money has incentivized within the human race. And the fruit is rotten. I mean, you just look at you look all over. They just built a new school down the street for me here. And we're at the park with the kids the other day and pushing them on the swings. And I'm like, is that the new school?

and this lady next to me, she goes, yeah, yeah, that's a new school. I go, man, that looks like a jail. I mean, that's just like aesthetically an ugly building. Like, I don't want to send my kids there. Yeah. Why would anyone send their kids to such a dark, depressing punishment looking like a box? Yeah. But this is the fruit of fiat.

Yeah, 100%. I have a friend who, he's kind of a mentor of mine. He runs a commercial building company. I mean, multiple $100 million company. They build high schools, public schools, middle schools.

He actually told me in a conversation, the design is to be designed after prisons. That's how they're just, that's crazy that you said that. Because verbatim, he told me when we were going out to lunch one day, uh, that that's how they do it.

It's for security for your safety, for your security, right? It's, it's designed to do that. Now, one, you know, if you want to give them a benevolent reason, you would say, oh, it's for safety. I mean, at best, how scary is this?

It's to prevent from an active shooter, right? Like that's at best. And that's so sad, right? Like just how the fruit of the Fiat system is the guy that has no family structure and is going to go do something crazy like that. And at worst, it's like this idea that you're kind of brainwashing kids that they're in prison, that there's no escape from this system. I mean, but they're actively verbatim by the CEO of a construction company that is built multiple public schools. They're designed after prisons. So confirmation of what exactly what you do.

Why can't you make a safe building that's beautiful? Yeah. Why is that not an option? To make a safe building that's beautiful, you have to fix the people. Yeah. It's easier to build a wall around a bunch of kids and treat them as things you have to keep in a box. like their eggs you don't want to break in the fridge than it is to build eggs that don't break and don't want to go breaking other eggs.

Yes, right. There's that famous quote, right? It's easier to build strong, it's easier to make strong children than repair broken men. Yes. Yeah. I don't remember who was who said that. One of historical abolitionists said that it's easier to make strong children than to repair broken men.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah, what a great quote. Yeah, and I'll kind of start rounding this out, but, you know, to the, I guess, how do you say that, to the comment on just building and the way that things look, I mean, time preference plays into that so much. And I said this on the last show that I did before I came home. But, you know, myself and my wife both were commenting on all the buildings that we would see over in Europe that were. built in a prior time back when there was sound money. And the thing that kind of shines through is that the people who were building those old

castles and amazing pieces of architecture that have stood the test of time for hundreds or thousands of years, some of them built things that they would never see the completion of in their lifetime. They were building for their children or their grandchildren or some other future generation that they may never meet. And they were doing it with money that existed and was already earned. They were doing it with things that they were building through the fruits of their own labor. And contrast that to today where it's let's throw up a building in a month and we're going to fund it out of the pockets of our grandchildren.

It's the total inverse, the total inverse. And so I can't wait to get back to a time where. instead of stealing from our future generations, we build things for them. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Anyways, gentlemen, I think we'll round out that topic. And I want to do another rotation.

Pastor, I'm going to toss it to you now. And I'm going to cue you up with the same comment, same question. Why are you bullish? Take it away. Oh, there's many reasons. and I was out working today and I was thinking, man, what am I going to talk about on DTC sessions? Why am I bullish? Like there's what can I, what can I land on?

And before I give my reason, I just have to say, yellow just commented back there. He said that Pastor Coyne is giving me ice cube vibes. And I, that's the highlight of my day, frankly. I do like that. Here it is. There it is. Yes. Yellow.

He, he, he, you know what? He's secretly watching from backstage. Oh, there is. He typed that.

He's got another laptop going here, but, yeah. Wow. That just, that's, that, I'm bullish on that comment right there.

Has he been sitting on your lap this whole time, Ben? He has, yes. That's why I have the sippy, because he, he wanted some juice. And so I've been,

sharing with him i'll say this ain't nothing to it jesus christ made me do it okay made that that's uh but no i'm um yeah that that's crazy i to to to give ice cube vibes is um that's really the goal of what i'm going for so okay anyways why am i bullish um i'll land on this i'm bullish on bitcoin's separation of money from state that means that makes me so bullish. And even as you were talking, Ben, about Javier Malay, you know, I had to be quiet because, you know, you told us don't give away you're bullish before you go. So I had to be quiet. But what we see there is a politician who's coming on the scene and just saying like, let's just tear the whole thing down. The system sucks. Just tear it down.

get rid of the central bank, bare bones, you know. And, okay, I'll put it this way. The Bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If you haven't noticed, it's really hard to trust people anymore. Right? The last three years have really, really, I mean, living in Canada, this wasn't always the sentiment, right? When I grew up, we didn't lock our doors. I felt safe in my neighborhood.

I generally trusted people on the street. Not anymore. It's not like that anymore. People have become very isolated, cold. I often say COVID killed customer service. Because even in these customer service industries, it's like, man, these people just, and I get it. The money's broken.

You want me to tip 20%. And that's just so that you can pay your rent. So I get it. It's broken and it's hard for everybody. But when you separate money from state, what you're doing is separating money really from people. Because the government is not this faceless, lifeless organism. It's just a group of people doing things, whether you like it or not.

And so if you're able to separate money from people, you're able to separate money from sin. And that is the most bullish thing I think I could imagine, separating money from sin. Now, that means I can't defraud you. I can't lie to you about the transaction. The honesty is built right into the system and you can't escape it. You could be the biggest scumbag on the planet. You could be the biggest scammer on the planet. But if you send me a million Satoshes, you send me a million Satoshes.

And that's it. It's done. The transaction is over. So that is incredibly bullish. Money is the thing that we store our energy in, our time and energy. If that becomes corrupted, everything becomes corrupted. Like, your, your most important commodity, your most important, how can I say, asset maybe, is your time. Once your time is gone, it's gone, man.

And the thing about time, you don't know how much you have. It's like you're born, I feel like you ever see that meme of Boomhauer from, it's like you're born into this world, man. It's just dust in the wind, you know, that means. Look, you're born into this world and God gives you a lot of time, but he doesn't tell you what it is. He doesn't tell you what it is. You don't know. So this is the most precious thing you have. And if you're going to give that precious thing, your time to do something to earn a money,

man, that money better be worthy of that time. That money better be worthy of the value of that scarce time that you don't even know how much. of it you have. And when that becomes broken and corrupt, I mean, what do you expect is going to happen? Of course society is going to begin to crumble. Of course people are going to begin to do crazy stuff. Man, I was driving behind the grocery store yesterday. I've never seen this in my community. I've lived in this community my whole life, man. I've never seen this stuff in my community. This guy is behind the grocery store laying on, I thought he was dead, man. I have to stop and call 911 and be like, hey, I think there's a dead guy.

here. And so they're like, go check. I'm like, this is, praise God, he was alive. But people are resorting to crazy stuff, drugs and violence. There's a lady walking around. I live in the suburbs, bro. I cut my grass. Okay. I have white shoes with green stains on them. People are walking around trying to break into people's houses. And when you corrupt value, You corrupt time. You corrupt people. It's a disaster. And so when Bitcoin comes around and I had this revelation of, oh, my gosh, this thing is capped at 21 million. This thing fundamentally, what's the word I'm looking for? It fits the biblical box, if you will, of God's monetary policy, which is simple.

is god's mon you want to know the divine monetary policy are you ready i'm going to give it to you this is the from heaven to your ears this is god's divine monetary policy you shall not steal okay it's not that difficult it's not it's not it's not this crazy thing you shall not steal you shall not defraud you shall use a just in equal measure in weight just don't be a crook that's it so i'm bullish on bitcoin's ability to separate money from sin i'll stop there before i preach a whole sermon i feel like sunday came early yeah yeah you're sending us in i love it it's uh it's giving me the feels um i i want to pastor i want to kind of even even like tug on that string a little bit more.

You were saying, you know, that how how precious people's time is and how you shouldn't be dedicating your most precious resource to something that is less, is not as finite as your time. And I think, you know, money is a mechanism in which we communicate our values. Because like you said, it's time. is the most scarce thing that any person has. And so when you go to work and you spend hours and hours of your time every day, every week, and you are rewarded for that in a monetary unit, you expect as, you know,

you spend those monetary units according to your values. You know, what do you value? What do you think is important? What am I going to spend my money on? Maybe I'm going to take my kids somewhere. Maybe I'm going to purchase something. Maybe I'm going to donate to a political party. Maybe I'm going to do a vast array of things with it.

But those are my values. And I'm taking my time and I'm funneling it into a mechanism that is conducive to my values. And you expect to see a semblance of your values reflected back to you from the world. but what people don't realize is that with the push of a button, a central bank basically erases the populace's values. They reallocate your time so that your values aren't reflected back at you. So there's this like, that's why people have such a hard time pointing a finger at what's wrong. They don't understand like, I'm doing all this work.

I'm doing all these things. I'm working towards trying to make the world what I want it to be. And it seems like it's just not happening. And I, you know, I talk to my friends and my family and we all kind of want the same thing. We're all working. And why is the world not being forged the way we would like it to be? It's because there's a group of privileged people that get to say, nah, not those values. Ours.

We're going to press this button and our bidding shall be done. And so it makes sense. sense that when the mechanism through which we convey our values is inherently broken, the values and morals of the people become broken too. And I think this is that breakdown in society where you see people don't have morals. They don't have values there. You said you don't trust the average person walking down the street. Maybe that's because we've had five decades of people's values not being reflected back to them.

So why have morals at all? Because you're not going to see them reciprocated. There's a brother who goes to my church who lived in Argentina. He was born there, lived there for a good part of his life. And he's testified to me of just the devastation of central bank money printing. We're starting to feel a little bit in the West. But he comes from a place where they felt the full, the fullness of the devastation of a central bank. money printer gone haywire. It's not a small thing when a man works his whole life,

gets married, has children, and then overnight, everything he's worked for is erased. Because somebody with a button in some building said, we need to print more money for whatever reason. This is not a small thing. This is a grievous, grievous injustice and in an evil that gets, doesn't get as much attention as it should. And so I preached this recently at church, and it got some good feedback. But, you know, as the church, we need to step up more. We're good at picking out injustices, right?

This is bad, this is bad, this is bad. But we've missed kind of the big one. We miss the money printer and the devastation that can cause the failings. It's bad. it's really bad. Someone's going to mean that, but it's bad. It's bad.

It's, I mean, as a moral person, whether that's a biblical morality or, you know, somebody that just has a, you know, an American sense or a Canadian sense of morality, which is based on, you know, Judeo-Christian ethos, if I walked out front of my house and my neighbor was being robbed at knife point, it would be my moral duty to do something, right? to either grab my gun and fend him off, call the police, do something, yell at the guy, just so there's somebody else present to do something. It's my moral obligation.

If I walk back in my house or keep doing what I'm doing, I'm violating some form of morality of I'm doing. I'm doing something evil on behalf of my neighbor. I'm turning a blind eye to his suffering. The problem with the money printer is it's insidious and it's unseen, but the principle remains the same. And so if we don't say something, obviously we're preaching to the choir here, even everybody in the chats that we're preaching to the choir,

but it's our moral duty and obligation just with as much conviction as if somebody's being robbed at knife point to do something, we must say something when they're being robbed in a sneakier way. Right. So when the central bank prints a bunch of money, what you were just talking about reminded me of the Canaan Abel story, right,

where God comes. and says, hey, where's your brother? And he's like, am I my brother's keeper? Am I responsible for him? Is he my problem? And God's like, yeah, because you killed him. It's the same thing. Oh, so why, my neighbor's getting right?

Am I my brother's keeper? It's the same thing. Yes, you are. I want to black pill us and then I want to white pill us. Because there's, you know, my wife and I, we've got this beautiful little baby girl. She's less than a year old. and everything that we're talking about is this idea of, you know, kind of moral responsibility, grounded decision-making. And it just, I had this moment after she was born, holding her and seeing, as I'm sure all of your parents have,

you know, all the potential and the joy and the fun that this little child brings into your universe. and then this momentary panic of, oh, crap, the zoomers are not in a good way. All these high school kids that I see, you know, I live by a couple of schools. And so, you know, periodically school lets out. And you see the kids walking, walking to the Walgreens to go get some snacks or the gas station or walking back home, cruising around, doing their thing. And they're just not in a good way. They don't carry themselves with any sense of pride or esteem.

At least I don't see them. Maybe it's just the kids in my neighborhood. They seem to be confused about who they are or what they believe in. They have all but given up the idea that they will enter into a workforce that they can contribute and receive something of value from. They've been told that they are not one thing or another thing, but a cacophony of things, and they can just kind of pick who they are from the hat,

the Dr. Seuss hat for that day. And so they walk around not knowing who they are outside of the world, past the tip of their nose or through their fingers on a phone with a social avatar. And it's terrifying. You think, well, not only is it terrifying because living in the world, you see people, and you don't want to see people kind of zambified, especially kids in that kind of way, but the underlying pain that you kind of see there is it,

it just looks like they're alone. They just look alone. They look so lonely that in this world of hyper-choice and sort of hyper-go-go-go, go, go beyond the treadmill, everyone's got to catch their break. the best thing that you could possibly do to have some moments, some infinitesimal moment of glory is win the lottery or be chosen by Mr. Beast to be in a video. It's almost the meme of like some guy walking up these YouTube videos where guys will walk up and pretend to be homeless and ask people like, oh, could I have some fruit out of your, could I have some fruit out of

your basket and people will brush them off. And the one guy who says like, oh yeah, yeah, feel free. Like take some, take some vegetables, whatever. The YouTuber turns around and gives the guy like 500 bucks or something, right? It's almost like people are just kind of waiting to be picked up by the YouTube algorithm and the YouTube gods to be someone who is fortunate enough to have been sort of just given, just dropped this thing in front of them. And it's really scary. And it's really something that I feel terrible for these really young kids because they're

just, they just look so alone. And when I think about what we're doing in the Bitcoin space fundamentally, and it's the same thing in a religious community, it's the same thing in like a cultural community. It's the same thing in just the neighborhood that you have and knowing your neighbors is that if you're not alone, if you're playing the Bitcoin game, fundamentally, the mindset shift you have to make is that you are going to play a game where you are going to behave by a certain set of rules. And you accept those rules to be appropriate and to be ethical. And so you abide by them. And from that, you kind of have set the foundation. You know, you've built your you built your castles on steel and not sand.

And what I'm so optimistic about, I told you I was going to wipe pill you. What I'm so optimistic about is that even though I see these kids and they're hurting and they're sad and they're alone and they think they identify as an attack helicopter and they think painting their nails is going to make them happier, they think dyeing their hair is going to make them happier. And they don't know any better. So you can't chastise them for it. You know, it's the zeitgeist of the Zuma age. I think how optimistic it is that, you know, us as folks, who have only slightly more life, you know, ahead of them, who are not yet sort of old and don't have the energy

to really dive into this fight and work for these sorts of things, that we can all hop onto these calls, and you see it. You see people that are Christian and Jewish and Muslim and people who are black, who are white, or in the inner cities, who are rural, who are living in rural Wyoming or inner city, Pittsburgh, or Chicago. And they're all sort of grocking this Bitcoin thing. And what they're deciding is that they're all going to play,

a game together. And they agree to the rules of that game. And that game supersedes any of these sort of superficial things that might change you on the surface. And while that person might be different from you, and they might be strange to you if you don't live around them and you don't see them every day, you still have the opportunity to live in a world where something is shared. And that's why I'm really optimistic. And pastor, hearing what you say, I think it's so beautiful to hear it from your perspective and can imagine you kind of standing up on a Sunday morning, you know, preaching this to your congregation is that you have that community there and you're offering them a tool where the pain that might tear apart something like a religious community, the

stresses of having financial BS pop up when somebody changes the rates or somebody decides they're going to do something different or Justin Trudeau decides he's going to seize your bank accounts because he doesn't like what you're doing. You don't have an opportunity to reestablish and establish in a deeper way these communities that can agree on something. And only when you have that, can you actually start to engage with people where you're not scared to talk to your neighbors? I've seen it a hundred times. You talk about the guy kind of laying on the road, and it's, you know, you're better than most for even stopping to try to check in on this person. And it's, it's really so deep from that because what you said probably in your head, and I won't editorialize,

is that, you know, this is a human being. This is somebody who I have some moral necessity to check in on to make sure that they're not heard. But most people don't see that, at least now. Most people don't see that and they don't say to themselves like I share something fundamental and valuable with this person and I have a responsibility and I think that we've got the opportunity and I I just love watching the culture of Bitcoin expand the way it has because that's what we're seeing take place right now. Yeah, that thing was crazy man like I was like hey are you okay man and he didn't move. I'm like this guy's dead so they got the lady on the phone keep asking keep out I'm like I think he's dead lady like he's not like hey and he just like remember the in different

WWF when the Undertaker would like, he just like sat up. Hey, I'm good, bro. And then he went back to sleep. I was like, yeah, I think he's alive. But it was really weird. Or the zombie apocalypse is starting. By the way, did anybody see the Undertaker moment of Rockstar Dev at Bitcoin 2023?

They had like a coffin for Fiat and Rockstar got inside of it and filmed the video. He pops out of the casket. and he starts throwing the like all of the cash that was in it all. It was great. Yeah. Awesome. Well, Jens, okay, I'm conscious of time and we have one more rotation to do. So I'm going to jump to the next topic.

And Brian, sorry, it took a while to get through, but we got on some good rabbit holes there, and I wanted to flesh him out. But, dude, it's you're up, and I'll cue you up again with the same question. Why are you bullish? Okay. I'm going to rapid fire right here. And so I'll cut into my time a little bit by one last thing on pastors.

I went what pastor was saying. And even what Robert was saying there. So my kids, I have 10 to 5 year olds, four kids in between that age. They were playing Monopoly the other day. And my 10 year old kept stuffing his money under the board. And his sisters all said, you can't do that. You can't hide your money. And so we looked up the rules.

And you, in fact, cannot, the rules of that game are you cannot hide. the money. My five-year-old raged quit the game because my 10-year-old was hiding the money. A five-year-old understands that if the rules of the game aren't fair, you don't play the game. And so tell me how much, I mean, I ask people all the time if they're pro-fiat. They don't know, they don't say they're pro-fiat, but they're championing the cause of pro-fiat. Tell me how much currency of the U.S. dollar is in supply right now. And they'll say, oh, the M-2 money supply. M-2 money supply.

You don't know crap. That's not an accurate figure. That's a guess, right? The money's under the table. We shouldn't play that game. A five-year-old knows not to play that game. The separation of money and state, when the separation of the church and state happened, people confuse what that was.

Not pastor obviously understands what that means, but many people say that that means that the church cannot be involved in politics. No, it means the state cannot be involved in the church. Just like Bitcoiners can still be and money can still be involved in politics. It will. We will still lobby politics. The politics, the government can not. not be involved in the money.

And so that's just one little caveat on that. Twit Twaff, he gave a shout out to the movie in time. We were talking about the preciousness of time. Go watch that movie and think about, they talk about time as currency. That's the whole premise of the movie. Go watch that movie. It's a Justin Timberlake movie from whatever, 2007 or something like that.

And then one other thing on that point, time is uncertain. Pastor kept saying that we don't know how much time we have. We don't know how much time we have. Time is uncertain. Fiat is also uncertain. That's what makes Bitcoin so incredible. It is certain. It's a tradeoff for the uncertainty of time.

Bitcoin is the only way we've ever been able to capture the uncertainty of time with a certain element. So if I'm unable, so if I capture some of my time with and I stored in Bitcoin, I might die tomorrow. I'm enabling my family to regain, recapture the time that I spend. can have security in that. It's an insurance policy. Bitcoin's an insurance policy, essentially on the uncertainty of time. And Fiat has never been able to be an insurance policy on the uncertainty of time because it itself was also uncertain. Wow. That was my, that was my wax poetic on that point. What am I bullish about? Ben, I've got to give you a shout out, man. My Bitcoin evangelism just hit number four of all the books on Amazon and the

world on inflation. It's actually, if you think about it, it's number four on the chart. The first three books are all the price of time. It's all like different versions of one book, which is a book on inflation. So technically Bitcoin Evangelism is the number two book on inflation in the world, which is crazy because inflation is such a hot topic right now. Ben, you were the first like really big show that ever invited me on to your show. So pastor, as somebody is launching their book, you're in a good spot right now, man. You kick that, you kick that thing off and I can't I can't say you know thank you enough for giving the platform for this book just getting out there and and just really I mean hopefully orange billing a lot of people it seems like it has um what I'll say I'm I'm bullish on to the metrics for the Bitcoin social layer I run the marketing for the orange pill app if you want to say like oh the price of Bitcoin is steady the metrics on how many people are are signing up for a social network specifically for Bitcoiners are just to make. connections with other Bitcoiners to zap them or buy stuff or make economic connections on the

Bitcoin social layer. It's a freaking hockey stick right now. It's absolute bull run time. When you look at the charts, I get to look at the charts for how many people are interacting, how many messages are going on, how many people are signing up, all that kind of stuff. The connections between Bitcoiner has never been higher. We have more tools. We have Noster. We have Orange Blount. Twitter is a great space for it. We have so many tools at our disposal. those metrics are going absolutely bananas. But if you want to talk about the buying power, and this is maybe the thing we can riff on for the second,

you know, last two minutes or whatever, but analog versus digital, we want to talk about the appreciation of the buying power of our stuff. There's never been a historical case or historical precedent where the digital disruptor of something didn't at least 10x, more commonly 100x, it's analog predecessor, right? Look at paper maps. Paper maps, and it's more.

most robust year of sales did about $40 million of sales ever. How much economic activity do digital maps account for? The answer is hundreds of billions of dollars every year in economic activity. Uber doesn't exist. Lyft doesn't exist. DoorDash doesn't exist. UPS, Amazon logistics do not exist without digital maps. And not only does digital maps, does it just give you more functionality?

It enables new types of commerce that didn't. exist before. Now, when maps were only paper, it wasn't that humanity only had $40 million worth of need for navigation. What happened was better maps unlocked the true demand of navigation. So what is the true demand of economic exchange between people? We don't know because we've never had a worldwide digital currency before. So when people talk about a hundred trillion dollar Bitcoin market cap sounds absurd, you know what? That's not. We don't know. We have no way to quantify that because we've never seen a tool that allows economic activity to exist on this level. There's going to be new forms of economic activity that exist because of a digital currency

that is truly native to the internet. That's what makes me bullish if you want to talk about the buying power of Bitcoin and not just the interpersonal connections, which I think is equally bullish. I love that. I love that, man. Okay, I can I, I want to comment on, on your first part, the connections in relation to OPA and X and and and and and and and a Noster and and all of this. Um, we're talking earlier about, you know, in relation to my topic about how there's just, you know, there's, there's, there's these pockets of people popping up all around the globe and in different places, but also in in different types of people. And, and they're, they're kind of everywhere. But this, this digital connection that we're able to do.

in this day and age, it brings together everybody. So you're kind of having, it's not like just having, in terms of how the worry of, oh, they'll just ban it or they'll just stop it from happening. How do you stop a collective of people that has no border, that is literally just an idea that has transcended all borders, orders, all economic classes and all types of people, all types of employment, men, women, again, Christians, Muslims, Jewish people, like all religions, all like, it's transcended

all of these differences between us. And there's people everywhere that are honing in and realizing how Bitcoin can work for them and how important it is for different reasons as well. And so, again, that social layer connecting an entire society that is just beginning to develop around the globe. And our numbers are larger than entire countries already. You know, small countries, we are bigger than them as a collective. And soon it will be, you know, some of the larger nations, on the planet, soon it will be entire continents that we are larger then.

And we are the minority soon to become the majority of people in the coming decades. And it's going to be an exciting time and that social layer is going to make it happen for sure. But yeah, I'll step away from the microphone. I'll let other people take it and give their comments on both things that you mentioned. I love this point that you make, Brian, because it's like, Everyone thinks that the, you're so early meme is dead, but they don't think about the fact that the panic that set in, there's a historical example, the panic that set in with the advent of tractors. So you think about the development of the tractor in the U.S. You know, there was a time where, you know, 80% plus of people in the U.S. farmed.

That's what you did. And you didn't farm because it was the cool thing to do, you know, it was in vogue, like going to your we work every day. you were going to your farm every day, you farmed because you had to stay alive. Because that was how you did it. It was subsistence. You know, you didn't have the luxury of just necessarily going to a supermarket and picking out, you know, pears in the middle of, in the middle of winter. And then the advent of the tractor was initially seen as something that could be scary

because not only were you having just insane amounts of work being done by the single machine, but there was this moral panic of what's going to happen to all the farmers. It's the same thing they're saying with AI. AI is going to put everybody out of a job and you're just going to be replaced by an AI. But that's not what happens. The pie gets bigger. Technology helps make the pie bigger. It helps humans continue to flourish.

If I could rip on this and turn it specifically to what I know best, which is the mining space, in 2017, I totally believed when people told me that mining is not profitable, it's not a good idea. You should not do it because, you know, you're not going to make any money. you're going to go bankrupt. It could not be less true then, and it could not be less true today. Mining is not even beginning to get turbo competitive in sort of a traditional business sense, because we haven't even discovered fully what mining is good for. We talk about, okay, you're going to, you're going to mine Bitcoin, you plug in,

you put electricity into a machine, that electricity produces revenue in Bitcoin. That's only half of the equation. The rest of the equation is living all the way on where you get that electricity from, and then what happens on the other end of that machine, which is heat. And the innovations that people see now, there's always these innovations that pop up and everybody gets so excited about. They see the work that Eric is doing with gridless compute in Africa, where he is putting mining machines on generation sites that he produces in various countries in Africa,

or generation sites he purchases in various sites in Africa. You see what's happening in the Albertan oil. fields where folks are taking waste natural gas, stranded natural gas, they're running it through gen sets and they're mining Bitcoin with it. You see people who are setting up hosting facilities all over the U.S. You see people going down South Teet Tapu Dam and Paraguay and picking up these gigawatts of excess energy that they have. And what does that really speak to?

It doesn't speak to this like, oh, Bitcoin mining is so so competitive. You can't actually make any space in it. What we're actually seeing happen right now in that space is that people are getting creative with their inputs and they're getting creative with their outputs. And it's the same thing is that the pie is continuing to get bigger. Mining is not so simple as you plug your machine into the wall, you pay 10 cents a kilowatt per hour, and you power your machine and you pay a bill.

We now have mining operating in such a way where miners are literally only buying electricity when it makes sense for them to buy electricity. And that gets crazier when you think about the people who produce electricity want customers. So people who produce electricity are now not only the producers of electricity, but the consumers of electricity. You have large, large, large folks

in a space like ERCAT, which is their regional transmission organization where the price of electricity varies over the course of the day, and Bitcoin miners turn off so that they can give that power back to the grid. If you wanted to do that 15 years ago, what you would have to do

is build a 100 megawatt. watt power plant and when you needed 100 megawatts, you would turn it on and you would be very inefficient. You would ramp it up. You would give electricity to the grid. We're doing the opposite. This stuff was unheard of that you could be like an inverse peaker plant and give 100 megawatts back to the grid in this space like mining. And we haven't even begun to really go down the rabbit hole when you're looking at implementations like people heating their houses, people using the output of a mining machine, people using the water. There's a lot of these immersion and these water cooled machines, that's useful water. There are loads of places on earth where you need to cool

something or you need to heat something and that becomes a totally different game when you can monetize that whole process. I had a guy hit me up on Twitter a couple of days ago and he was showing me these devices, these load banks that they run on large ships. And on large ships, they have these huge generators that they have to keep running at a certain level of output because otherwise they aren't kind to the engine. It creates this kind of undue. wear on the engine. Your engine wants to be revving at a certain RPM. If it's lesser, if it's more, it tends to screw with things. So on these boats, they literally have a subset of products that are just called load banks. And the sole purpose of that load bank is to waste electricity by heating up a coil

and cooling it with seawater and dumping it back into the ocean so that they can keep the engine operating at that stable load. Because sometimes I don't need all this electricity. So I just dump it into heating up the ocean. Implementations like this are just creeping out of the woodwork and the pie is just getting bigger every single day. So I don't think you could have made a better point on that, Brian. And as always, I have to rant a little bit on Bitcoin mining and talk a little bit about that world.

Love it. Pastor, do you want to dive in here as well? Oh, sorry, I meet it. There we go. I got you. Here I am. Yeah, I think about this often. And I think about, and it's just a fun thought experiment.

But I've heard it said that Bitcoin is going to do to money what the internet did to information. And, you know, I remember when the internet, when my first experience with the internet at least in the mid to late 90s, you know, you'd have to make. sure your mom wasn't on the phone with her friend, Gabbin for three hours. Mom, get off the internet or get off the phone. I want to see that baby dancing gif or whatever. I don't know how old you guys are, but that was like the first thing. You download the baby the baby gif and just watch it over and over and be amazed by it that you could have this thing going on.

But yeah, so back in those days, I could have never imagined what the, what the, what the internet would have become. I would have never imagined I'd be sitting here talking to people on a laptop device and it would be quick and HD wasn't even really a thing. So thinking about what Bitcoin is going to do to money, it's like, what's next? The possibilities are endless. I love Robert's point about the pie getting bigger.

That's what happens. That's what, sorry? All Brian. Whatever. Somebody said it. The pie getting bigger. I love that because that's what happens. Innovation doesn't destroy human life.

Innovation improves human life. But we need to have the vision to be able to see that, right? Like with the horse and carriage, they couldn't see the innovation of a combustion engine, of a vehicle, of a truck. what you could do with that thing. It was like, no, no cars because then our buggies are, who's going to build the buggies? You're going to put us out of business. No, innovation makes human life better. And so we need to embrace technology.

And in the Christian sphere, this is sort of, I'm kind of budding heads with people because a lot of Christians were not good at accepting innovation recently, not in the past. in the past i could i mean just type in christian inventors my favorite is willis carriere presbyterian who invented you know what he invented the greatest invention of all time probably even better than bitcoin i know that's heresy the air conditioner okay if you live in a hot climate you can thank a presbyterian for for that uh well not all presbyterians just willis carriet but um yeah christians we used to be at the forefront of technological innovation now we're not it's sad so i hope bitcoin can kind of change that uh but we need to view um we need to view the future

view the future with optimism not with pessimism my gosh i'll just say this and then i'm done if you're a christian you know the end of the book man like jesus wins we win good wins evil loses why are you so pessimistic about the future i hear it all times are only going to get worse. Why? That's not true. That's not true. We have the greatest message of hope and salvation. Like, it's good. Jesus wins. Life is going to get better. The whole promise of Christianity is eternal life for crying out loud. Imagine believing. Just, I'm done after this. Imagine believing you will have eternal life and things only get worse. Why would you want that? No, things will get so much better.

That's the promise of God. Things will get better because Jesus is renewing the creation and making it better. So jump on board the Ark of Christ and let's build a better future. Amen. Awesome. Awesome. I love it. Gentlemen, I think the time has come.

We're going to start rounding this out. I like to do a little something at the end of each episode. I'll just do a quick round of number one, any final thoughts that you may have, anything that you want to sum up, anything you didn't get to get off your chest, whatever it may be. And number two, my challenge to you guys is to provide some sort of a recommendation for people that you think might be cool for them to check out. And this can take many forms. It might be a book or a podcast or a video that you watched. It might be a website that you think is really cool. It might be an app or a device or a company or some sort of product that you've tried that you think is awesome.

Or it just might be a piece of life advice that you think people should come away with from this show. So I'll get us started off here. I think the takeaway from this episode for me is it's an. optimistic message in that we see kind of again, and I talked about it earlier, these pockets of bitcoins that are that are kind of dispersed everywhere, but are beginning to come together. And we're seeing it happen in many ways. And we're seeing that recognition of the broken system and how we need to transcend it coming about from a lot of different people everywhere.

And that's exciting to me. And they're all being connected through this social layer. And that's a beautiful thing. And I think it accelerates with time. And I've seen it with people that, you know, I do these one-on-ones with people and the pace of learning and recognition of what Bitcoin is, how it works and how you can become self-sovereign with it. The pace is moving already, in my opinion, at breakneck speed. And it's about to get faster. There's going to be newcomers that far surpassed many of the.

the OGs in terms of knowledge in and around Bitcoin in the coming years and already have been. And so I think my recommendation for people watching, we are in, you know, we're still in the bare market here in terms of, you know, we haven't not like bumping up against all time highs and all, you know, there's not the hype or anything. So a lot of people watching right now will be people that have been around for a little bit. And my challenge to you, my recommendation to you is don't stop learning just because you've been around a little bit and you think you kind of get Bitcoin and you think you're good. You know, you learned how to stack sats. You learn some Austrian economics. You stack some sats. You secured it with a hardware wallet and you you're pretty much good.

Well, challenge yourself a little bit. Learn something new. Find something that you haven't tried before and tinker with it and become a better bitcoins or find a new book that might, enlighten you further on some of the topics that interest you or some of the tangential topics to Bitcoin that are complementary. So yeah, my recommendation is a broad one, but keep learning. Don't assume you know it all and deepen your Bitcoin knowledge

by diving further down the rabbit hole. With that, I'll do a rotation. Pastor, I'm going to toss it right back to you. And again, like any final thoughts you may have, and if you have a recommendation to toss out there, feel free. Are you just setting me up to recommend my own book? Is that what's happening? I think so, yeah.

I'm going to give you the spotlight here so that you can hold it up again too. Okay, great. Yeah, so final thoughts. I guess stack stats and do what you love. Don't really, you know, get, don't, don't get too emotional with it, right? price go up, price go down, whatever. Just stack sats and do what you think God wants you to do with your life and enjoy it. Don't waste it.

Don't waste your time. And of course, yeah, so I'm going to show the book. It's called the Bible and Bitcoin. There's this gray line through it that says not for resale. That's just because that's how Amazon publishing gives you proof copies. But anyways, that won't be there. So it's called the Bible and Bitcoin. a theological exploration of human time, energy, and Bitcoin.

And it is for Christians. I wrote it in Christianese because we need a, I thought we needed a book about Bitcoin in the language of the average Christian. And so that's why I wrote it. I wrote it as the book I wish I had when I was asking questions about Bitcoin. So that's why I decided to create this thing here. So it's an easy read. There's pictures in it, color.

It's very visually nice. I think there's a picture of Trudeau where it says the budget will balance itself. So I have to throw shade at the tyrant in my own book. So yeah, in the back, like I said, there's a study guide. You can see the study guide, six-week study. you could have a small group in your church, go through the book, read the scriptures, and have a discussion. And it's really a pill, a tool for you to orange pill. I guess it is a pill in that sense.

You're a Christian friend. So it's very easy to read. It's digestible. It's not too long. There's pictures. There's QR codes for documentaries and further learning. And Ben, I have to show you love because you show me love. but more so because of Jesus says I have to love everyone, so I don't really have a choice.

No, that's not true. I do love you because for that reason. It does say here, podcasts, BTC Sessions, number two, recommendations. So I hope that BTC Sessions gets a lot of Christian play from the recommendation. And yeah, so that's it. Pick it up on August 31st on Amazon. And if you want to read chapter one for free now, you can go to the Bitcoin and the Bible and Bitcoin.com. You can get chapter one for free right now.

I love it. I love it, man. Well, congrats on that. I'm excited to see a launch and I hope a lot of people pick it up. And Yellow wants to know. He says, I'm Greek Orthodox. Is it okay for me? Yeah.

Yeah, it is, it is, oh, I am Protestant, but it is compatible with all shades of Christendom. So Orthodox, Catholic, it is compatible. It is for you, yellow. Maybe I will print a special yellow cover edition just for you and send you one because you made my date tonight. So there you go. He seems excited about that. There is. Awesome.

All right. I'll toss it down to Rob. Rob, final thoughts, recommendations. Go ahead. Beautiful. I want to, well, first off, thanks has always been. You run the best recurring show that I know of on YouTube that is pumping out this brilliant information to people's brains every week.

Thanks. And I don't think people fully appreciate how much you have to do to do this kind of stuff. It all just looks like, you know, glitz and glamour and fancy hair of which you strike all the boxes. But I would say, you know, it's expanding on this. this idea of making the pie bigger and expanding on this idea of, you know, what is your moral or your ethical obligation? And it's hard to go through kind of a phase shift as a human, right? It's easier when you're a kid and like you're changing every 15 minutes, so you're going to

try new stuff. But it's harder as you get older to change your frame of mind or to look at things in a different way. And it's especially harder to advocate for something that you might pick up that's new or strange or different and sort of in the cultural world, right? You might see this, like they talk about it in like alcoholics anonymous groups all the time. When people choose to be sober, oftentimes they wind up not being able to bring a lot of their social life and their friends and oftentimes even family with them that you become something new. And so I would say that if you

really, if you really are picking up what all of these insane bitcoins are putting down, if you really are exploring this thing and there's no there's no moral obligation to accept it. immediately. You know, everyone has to do their own research and get to where they are on the road in their own way. But if you really believe it, figure out how you expand the pie. Just figure it out. Just think about it. It doesn't mean that you have to be trying to orange pill everybody at Thanksgiving. It doesn't mean that you have to be standing on the corner with a billboard saying buy Bitcoin or doing some grand gesture. There are all sorts of very, very small and quiet ways in your life that you can expand the pie of not just the Bitcoin ecosystem, but the Bitcoin ethos,

the way in which that one might behave as a Bitcoin. And I think that that's something that a lot of people maybe get disenchanted. They say, oh, well, how can I contribute? There's all these, am I going to start a podcast? You know, every Bitcoiner needs a podcast. Am I going to write a book? It seems really hard. Maybe I'm not an expert in anything.

But there's something that you can do. And it can be small and it can even just be you learning for yourself. And that's enough. That's enough of a place to start. is with yourself to continue to expand that pie because you then become somebody who can carry that kind of knowledge into the world. And so my recommendation is the follow up on this, which is that I highly recommend, I highly recommend going to YouTube, and you'll have to forgive me for a second, Ben, going to YouTube and searching if you are not, if you're of sort of like 20-20 forward

in terms of Bitcoiners, searching who Andreas Antonopoulos is, and go and listen to a bunch of Andreas Antonopoulos videos. And they're not beautiful. And you're thinking, like, what is this middle-aged-looking IT guy with a funny accent doing, talking about Bitcoin, and how the heck is he doing it with this degree of proficiency? Go watch a bunch of Andreas Antonopoulos videos,

and you'll see stuff, I'm sure you'll learn things from it, and you'll think it's brilliant, and then come back here and watch a bunch of BTC sessions videos and think to yourself how much the pie has freaking expanded. Because there was nobody six years ago who could sit you down in the space that is the internet universe. There was nobody who could sit you down and who could walk you through step by step how to do things

that were just beyond the pale in terms of technical accessibility, whether it's the tools or whether it's the systems or whether it's how to live on Bitcoin. There was nobody doing that. And so in that space, you have these people who can kind of carry on and expand in these really beautiful ways. So that's my recommendation. Go watch a bunch of Andreas Antonopoulos videos.

I promise you that you will find them engaging and you will love them and you will pick something up from them that is of great interest. And then come right back here and see how that kind of message is carried on and just see how big that pie has gotten in such a short time and see how good the lighting is and see how good the production is and see how fabulous the hair is now. And so that's my recommendation is that we don't just we don't just always, you know, because this is a young space, you know, 14 years, 14 years of kind of doing this. We're babies. We're babies. We're a teenager. Bitcoiners is run by teenagers, right? You don't always know. And everybody

kind of learns the big like where we come from. They all want to, uh, they all want to like, you know, study Adam back and they want to learn about the cypherpunks. But look at the cultural evolution that we've made. It's insane. It's insane. Even, even what's happening here with guys writing books so that they can take it back and evangelize and speak to their congregations and speak that language. It's insane. There was nobody that was like Jimmy's song. It was like one dude in a room talking to six people who were like, what's a Bitcoin? Jimmy, can we break for lunch yet? And he's just And on it, he's doing his thing. And just what has emerged from that space is so beautiful.

So I would highly recommend that. Don't just know your technical history, know your cultural history, and be appreciative of the people who are putting in the work to continue to build this stuff. And continue to make this pie bigger. And at the end of the day, think about how you can do it yourself. That's great. I love it, man. I'm getting hungry with all this pie talk. I know.

The whole chat is, you know, it's been in terms of Avery Hoddle. It's big pie energy in here. very big pie energy. I love it. That's awesome. Awesome. Well, Brian, I'm going to toss it to you finally. You get the last word.

Final thoughts and recommendations. Go ahead, man. Beautiful. Let's go. kicking us off for the weekend. Andreas Antonopoulos was the guy that Orange Billed me. So absolutely spot on, Robert. I mean, his stuff is beautiful in its own right, as you were alluding to.

Now, while I'm walking away with, a few things here. The Bible and Bitcoin.com. The first chapter is free. I feel like that was, we breezed over that. Go out and get the first chapter free. Like, come on. You got to taste it a little bit and then go buy it. So that's huge. Robert, I was on a call with Robert Bree love the other day. I still can't decide who's the more handsome Robert. You're like dashing my friend. Very, very, very distracting. I haven't even put my hair down yet. But yeah, man, as far as recommendation, I have to talk about the Orange Bill app. I started Orange Bill app as a customer.

Last Pacific Bitcoin, I just was walking around the conference, and I got the pitch about Orange Pill app from Mateo, the founder, and I just signed up as a customer. And the relationship kind of fostered after Pacific Bitcoin, and then I got to step into the chief of marketing role for the app. So first of all, there's a lesson there. Show up to things in Bitcoin. Go to conferences, go to meetups.

if you're looking to work in Bitcoin, that's a huge thing that you can do. Show up, be present. Create some form of content. Create some form of value in the community. And that's your resume. Nobody has a doctorate in Bitcoin yet, right? Like it hasn't been around. Like there's no PhD or a master's that you can go somewhere.

Nobody cares about what your college credentials are for Bitcoin. What your credentials are to go work are those things. I have this Twitter feed that has really good engaging content. and I have, you know, whatever it happens to be. I have a certain skill set of you're able to present and explain Bitcoin, whatever it happens to be, then go to those in-person things and that's where you make the connections. I literally just signed up for this app.

And I signed up because I believe in it. And I think that if we want hyper-bitcoinization to happen, the online portion of hyper-bitcoinization is happening. That's unstoppable. We have all these things in place. We have places that are accepting Bitcoin. We have people that are engaging and connecting with one another, like we said, X and Noster, Nostra is unstoppable as far as being, you know, a decentralized type,

so form of social media. But we're missing perhaps the, the full breadth of the in real life connections. If we want hyper-bitcoinization, if we want a circular economy to materialize, we have to foster the in real life connections. And that's literally what Orange Pill app exists for. You can go find Bitcoiners that live near you. You can go find events that are close to you. Um, you can go into the app, completely anonymous.

if you want. The cypherpunk said that that privacy is not anonymity. What the cipher, if you read the cipherpunk manifesto, it's that privacy is anonymity until you reveal your identity to the people you want to reveal it to. It's your choice to reveal that. And so that's what you have with with Orangeville app. You can be completely anonymous. Then you can either reveal your location. If you want, if you don't want that you don't have to, you can set up meetups, whatever you want to do. But the in real life connection is going to be absolutely critical. There's two futures, right? We should have an optimistic model and a pessimistic model. And I'll leave it at this. The optimistic model, the CBDCs come out. Bitcoin's the world's best

check on the CBDCs. The CBDCs can't be as tyrannical as they want to be because Bitcoin is this free market option that if the CBDCs are super tyrannical, people will just flee to Bitcoin. So the government has to kind of keep them only kind of sucky. And the future, the future is bright. the Bitcoin economy flourishes and a rising tide lifts all boats. Those earliest to the Bitcoin economy that are buying, trading, selling, exchanging their goods and services and their time for Bitcoin, those people benefit the most from being earliest to the economy, not just the earliest holders of Bitcoin,

the earliest active in the Bitcoin economy. So if you're just sitting there hoddling Bitcoin, cool, I love it. But spending sats, finding ways to spend sets, If you spend your stats, buy, replace them. That's fine. But spending stats is a critical piece of that. So that would be a recommendation right there is find places where you can foster that, that circular economy.

But who are the people that adopted the internet economy? They benefited the most. Those guys that were the earliest adopters of the internet economy, what do they do for fun now? They send rockets into outer space just for kicks and giggles because they have so much freaking money because they were the earliest to that economy. The same thing will happen in the Bitcoin circular economy. early to it will benefit the most from all of the connections that they have. The more nodes on the network of the social layer, the more connections you have.

That's the optimistic model. The pessimistic model. I think that the value proposition of in real life connections and the social layer connections of Bitcoin are even higher in the pessimistic model. Say the CBDCs come out and they tell you you can't eat meat. You can't send your kids to school where you want to send them to go, you know, where you want to send them to. You can't say what you want to say. All those things happen. And guess what?

The value proposition of in real life connections will never have been higher because now every rancher's hand that you shook is somebody you can buy meat from. Every computer guy that can fix your computer that accepts Bitcoin that you know in person, you can still you can still do that. Somebody that a babysitter that will watch my kids for Bitcoin, those connections are censorship resistant. Or it's actually the most censorship resistant type of connection. Yes, you can censor in real life connections.

You have to do it by putting them in jail. You have to expend a lot of time and energy to do that. What's the highest form of punishment for people in jail is solitary confinement? So let's take that and invert it. What's the best way to make yourself anti-fragile? What's the opposite of solitary confinement? The most robust social network you could possibly have, that's how we become anti-fragile. We have anti-fragile money.

We have things like Noster that make us online anti-fragile. Make in-life, in real-life connections. That is a form of freedom technology is a handshake. Wow. I love that. Yes. Hey, guys, by the way, my wife just said, you need to wear a sign that says buy Bitcoin and stand on the corner. That's, I mean, that might be some people's path.

I love it. Guys, this is a blast. I really feel like this is a good rip. Lots of fantastic points. Lots of great rabbit holes to go down. And yeah, I had a really good time. So, of course, as I always rounded out, you were all fantastic.

I had a great time. Thank you for your time. Again, the most precious thing we have other than Sats. I appreciate you all coming on and giving your time to myself and the viewers. And you're all welcome back anytime. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you guys have a great weekend.

Awesome. Cheers, guys. Have a good one. And everybody watching, thank you so much for being here. This is a great one. I'm so glad to be home doing the shows live here. And yeah, I had a fantastic time. So thanks, everyone.

Of course, don't forget, do like, subscribe, share. All those things, they help a ton. They get this content in front of more eyeballs. Thank you, everybody in the chat that's been here all night. Really appreciate everybody. David Wrong. It's good to see a world of Rusty. I know that Becca was in here.

McLevin, Yellow, as always. Good to see you, man. Again, everybody, thank you for coming out and keeping those comments running throughout the show. If you want to help out of the show, of course, all those things like subscribe, share. You can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors. Those were Hoddle, Hoddle, Coin Kite, Cidor, Nunchuck, and Star 9. And you can also hit up my website, BTCSessions.ca. That's where if you're going through the tutorials, you're learning something new,

and you need a little bit more handholding instead of just all the free stuff, which I encourage you to go check out all the free stuff. But if you need like a one-on-one to get set up with something, you can book me through the website, BTCSessions.ca. And if you really liked what you saw, same website, just up up the top, there's a little tab that says tips, and that'll take you to my BTC pay server, where you can shoot me a dollar, buy me a coffee,

help me run my node, help me with the streaming software, with hardware that I do videos on, all that kind of stuff. And you can send sats over either on-chain or via the Lightning Network. And I appreciate everybody that's been doing that. Thank you so much.

And with that, I'm going to round it out. Thank you guys so much for being here. And of course, I will see you guys next time for your daily session. Thanks, guys. Have a great weekend.