BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Sean Harris, Eric Yakes, Love Is Bitcoin ep403

Episode Date: March 16, 2024

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/BigSeanHarris https://twitter.com/ericyakes https://twitter.com/LoveIsBitcoin21 BOOK ME for private one-on-one sessions on my website! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more. https://www.btcsessions.ca/ 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Nunchuk Wallet and their Honey Badger plan is a best in class assisted mutisig setup with built-in inheritance planning and NO KYC. Check them out today! https://nunchuk.io/ SEEDOR is one of the most robust metal backups on the market today. Get your SEEDOR starter set today! Use this link for 5% off. https://www.seedor.io/discount/BTCSESSIONS?redirect=%2Fcollections%2Fprodukte For US based customers: https://www.seedor.io/btcsessions Canadian customers: https://link.thecryptoboutique.ca/BTCSessionsSeedor Start9 is your Bitcoin & lightning node, and full personal server - enabling you to take back control from the gatekeepers of your money and data! Grab Server Lite,One or Pro today and become truly self-sovereign! https://start9.com/   Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions  HodlHodl is a NON-CUSTODIAL, NON-KYC solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION

What's going on everybody? Welcome to this show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. Got an awesome panel today, a couple returning guests and a first timer, and I'm very excited to have them all. I hope you guys have been having a good week. I hope also you've been eating up this delicious dip that we're having right now. The first, I mean, it feels like the first actual longer than five minute dip. A lot of them have been very brief, but hey, enjoy it while it last before Sats get much more expensive. Anyways, this is live, of course. Anything can happen, so I defer to my friend Bill here. Live, okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live. thing sucks.

If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share all those things. They help a ton getting this in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, I am first going to pull up timechain calendar. To check out where we are in the market. And simultaneously, I'm also pulling up the live chat. anything you say from here on in will be live for the world to see for better or worse.

But back to timechain calendar.com, we're sitting at $68,291 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 1,464 sats. In terms of fees, next block, you're looking at 19 stats per byte, anytime six sats per byte, and Bitcoin mined, 19.66 million of them. That is 93.6% of the entire supply and the halving. is only 35 days and 19 hours out. That puts it in around 11 a.m. on April 20th, 420, Poetic. Shout out to sponsor the show, obviously.

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You can check them out at Start9.com. And if you're looking at that server pure, use code BTC sessions with a plus sign at the end, that will get you 18% off. Anyways, enough of my rambling. Let's get our guests in here and get rolling. So I want to welcome to the stage, Flow, aka Love is Bitcoin. Mr. Eric Yakes and Big Mr.

Sean Harris. I'm going to give us a shuffle here really quick. But welcome to the show, everyone. Let's do a quick round of intros for anybody and familiar. Altasa to Eric. First, multiple returner to the show. Welcome back, man.

Can you intro yourself? Yeah, I think this is a, what is this? Round three, I believe. So, yeah, I'm getting more and more bullish every time. I'm Eric Yakes. I'm the author of the seventh property. It's kind of how I started in this industry. And I'm from Denver, Colorado. And I'm a part of the space, Denver, which is a new Bitcoin community that's launching.

And I think that there's a few guys in the chat right now who are talking about the space. So that's kind of becoming the biggest part of my identity. That's pretty awesome, man. And I got to say I've got my signed copy of your book up on my shelf. It'll be held near and dear forever. But honestly, if you haven't read the seventh property, I firmly stand by my position that it's one of the best books written on Bitcoin out there. So grab yourself a coffee.

Yeah. Let's rotate down. I'll toss it to flow. Welcome to the show. I feel like I was just, you know, in your presence not long ago because I was. It was just a, what, two weeks back? now maybe that we were in Madeira for Bitcoin Atlantis. But welcome to the show.

Can you give yourself an intro for anybody unfamiliar? Thank you so much for having me here. I'm Flo Montoya. I'm a Bitcoin artist. I work in Lobby's Bitcoin magazine. I give life to the character of Libby. And I also work for Panties for Bitcoin. Awesome.

And I've got to say, Panties for Bitcoin, they are the best family. They are so sweet. They're amazing people. Love them. It's been great working with them. It's very different from any other experience I have had with any company. Yeah.

They're fantastic. Yeah. Awesome. Well, welcome to the show for the first time. And we'll bump down the line one more time to Mr. Big Sean Harris. Dude, welcome back. How are you doing? And give yourself a little intro for anybody that might not know.

Thanks, Ben. I, so this is my third time as well on the show. You don't include Christmas shows. And what I do in Bitcoin, I am Ben Perrin's hype man because he deserves all the hype in the world. He is going to be in Satoshi's work. So as well as being Ben's hype man, I'm also part of the meme factory. And we make the funny memes. We do the laser eyes.

And we're doing the having party in El Salvador that's coming up pretty soon. So I'm really excited for everything that's going on. But Bitcoin is only getting better because of guys like Ben. So thanks, Ben, for everything you do. You're too kind. And I'm stoked to see you down at the having party in just a couple of weeks here. It'll be my first time to El Salvador. So I can't wait.

And what's that website? HavingHavingParty.com or Bitcoin. Bitcoinhavingparty.com. Bitcoin having party.com. If you were uncertain, if you were going, well, now you're going. You go get a ticket right now because it's going to be awesome. It's going to be a blast. Awesome.

All right. Well, let's get into it. Anybody that is joining the show that is unfamiliar, you never been here before, don't know what's going on. Simple premise to the show. This is called Why Are We Bullish? Each one of us comes with a reason for being bullish in and around Bitcoin. And the reasons can take any form.

It could be as simple as a new video. article we read it could be a news item it could be a new app or a new device that we're hyped about it could be really anything so the flow of the show is that number one somebody's going to drop a reason why they're bullish this is their chance to rant on it and get us all hyped up and as excited as they are uh number two altogether we're going to riff on that reason comments questions whatever rabble is we want to go down and then finally number three we're going to rotate to the next person until we've all had a turn. So reason, riff, rotate, simple. Uh, once again, I'll say to the guess, don't drop your reason early. Wait until I ask you your reason for being bullish so that you

uh, uh, you still have things to say by the time we get to you. Um, so with that, um, I'll kick us off this week. And I gave this one a little bit more thought this week. Usually it has something to do with, you know, a new item that I've been working on or a tutorial that I've done or, you know, some bit of tech that I've been working on. I guess to a degree it is that, but it's also been some stuff that we've seen building in the news and something that happened this week as well. So I guess I'll preface this by saying, governments like to steal money from people in many different ways. You know, you've got your typical taxes, you know, coercion. You've got more insidious debasement of the currency, but you've also got instances of just blatant corruption and misappropriation

of funds, right? Like you pay your tax dollars that's supposed to go to certain things and then some politicians just literally steal money or it's or it's so opaque that you don't know where the money is gone. You know, we've had examples of this in Canada. One of the, one of the, ones that's hitting the news more often lately is we had this horrendous app called a RiveCAN that people basically had to have on their phone in order to go into and out of the country during the pandemic and and the people had guesstimated what the app should have cost to make which i mean it was broken as hell the entire time anyways and barely worked uh but they spent they actually don't exactly know how much was spent on it because the reporting and where all the money went is just so

so completely it was fraudulent right like they hired in you know buddies that ran a firm out of like a basement of a cabin that did you know they're called an IT firm but they don't actually do IT and there's like two guys and they paid them 60 million dollars. to make this app that just did nothing and was broken half the time and could have been put together for maybe 50K. And so, you know, that's one example. But realistically, it's kind of everywhere. You've got the current system, which for the average citizen, equates to draconian surveillance

where even the tiniest transactions need to be cataloged and reported. Your $600 Venmo needs to go. somewhere off to the IRS. But at the same time, it's just fine and dandy if the Pentagon misplaces $2.3 trillion. Like, whoops, we just failed our sixth audit in a row. Whoops,ie, Daisy. And that's kind of the existing system

where it's like rules for thee, but not for me. I believe we're starting to see an inverse of that system being built in parallel. I believe that we're getting to a place where it will be possible to have overt and simple auditability of funds whenever there's a government or even like a corporate entity in place that has responsibility over funds for large amounts of people. And that precedent is kind of being set in real time right now. So one example is a number of the ETFs have publicly listed Bitcoin addresses. And so you can kind of see all of the funds sitting there. And it's kind of cool.

Like you can just track and you know exactly what the address is and where everything is. But more importantly, this week, you had, even though it wasn't everything, you had El Salvador say, hey, look, here's one of the Bitcoin addresses. and we're going to put some of our funds in it. So citizens now have some auditability into El Salvador's Bitcoin Treasury. And so now you're in a situation where everyday citizens can load up and follow the balance of a companies or a nation's Bitcoin treasury on their smartphone. And just like in real time at any point, just whip it out and be like,

Oh, yeah. So El Salvador has this much Bitcoin sitting in their wallet right now and just see that. At the same time in tandem, you're having technologies being built because obviously Bitcoin isn't entirely private. It's actually quite bad for privacy. But you have tools being built to offer individual citizens far greater privacy. Things like, obviously, we've had coin join for quite some time. Lightning from a sender's perspective gives some additional privacy. Liquid in terms of the amounts being sent gives some obfuscation there. And then you have systems like Fedemint and Cashew that use these

Xiaomi and eCash systems, which are basically near perfect privacy for small community funds. And so I'm of the opinion that individuals, individuals as we try to do should always be innocent until proven guilty. There should be the assumption of innocence. And with that, should be afforded the utmost privacy at the individual level, whereas those whose jobs it is to safeguard and properly allocate funds

on behalf of many, many people should be held to the utmost scrutiny and absolute transparency at all times. And I hope, and I kind of think that this may be where we're headed over time just because of Bitcoin's incentives, because it is possible to demand this of governments and companies to show this type of information publicly without compromising their security. And it is possible to give individuals privacy on a very basic level back and forth for their day-to-day expenditures. So that's why I'm bullish because I see a precedent being set by these large entities. And I also see a precedent being set by individuals building tools for the everyday person. So that's where I'm at. And I'm curious, your guy's thoughts on this and whether you want to poke holes in it or whether you think that we may be headed that way, I'm curious.

Anybody who wants to jump in? I can easily jump in on that. And I think that's a pretty, I wasn't expecting such a cool reason for why you're bullish. That's, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's some bullshit, hey? You know, I thought there's going to be some sort of, you know, number go up type, you know, and that's all good stuff. But, yeah, the privacy tech.

Yeah, it's, it's pretty cool, man. And I think that, like, I think about this a lot. And from the economic perspective, you know, I, what Bitcoin did it is it pushed, like, up until all prior forms of money had these very expensive forms of verification. It's very costly to verify gold and to audit banks, whereas Bitcoin kind of created this ability to, you know, in economic terms, it lowered the marginal cost of verification to, you know, approaching zero, very close to it. And I think that that's, what's really interesting is that's just, it's a product of

cryptography and it's a way that we can leverage cryptography. It's like your point about using things like Chom Uni Cash Banks, that's something else to where we can take the idea of a bank which prior to Bitcoin using these cryptographic systems it's very expensive to audit a

bank. It's very expensive to actually verify that. It's like the only way you can really do that is by executing a bank run or something and like really proving that the reserves exist within the bank. And we're using cryptography with these novel technologies to lower the marginal cost of verification even for that scenario. So that's like a step beyond just what Bitcoin does for verification. And that's huge. That's massive. It changes like the incentives for how we can

verify institutions and, you know, custody Bitcoin or shared custody forms of Bitcoin. And I think that by doing that, we can create these banking systems that function. you know, in the best interest of the users because it increases information transparency in the entire system. That allows us to actually audit things because it's not that we can't do it. It says it's economically expensive to do it in the prior system. And like that's the problem that we're solving with all these technologies. And yeah, it's crazy bullish. Yeah, that's awesome.

I don't know. Floor Sean, do you want to dive in? Any thoughts? Yeah. Like coming from a Latin American country, we see corruption all the time. So this is something I've been dreaming of, like, the moment that you can really, like, follow the money, truly see what they do with it, when they move it, and how they spend it. And it's so beautiful that it's happening, like, extremely bullish. And I can't wait.

I hope to see a moment where much, many more countries embrace this. And that's all I can say. Like it's super beautiful and it's so much it's something we need actually. It is. And it's it's kind of interesting to think that you like you said, follow the money. You could in real time audit a government. And if they do anything shady with the funds,

immediately you've got how many citizens eyeballs on that wallet going, oh, well, these funds went here. And now they went to this wallet. And it seems that this is a service that does it. You know, like you have that transparency and instant questioning of whatever the hell is going on, which as it should be, as it should be when you have an entity that is so powerful and has so much responsibility. Yeah, they deserve that type of scrutiny, right? I mean, in Chile, for example, we don't even, people don't know anything that happens with the money. Like you don't even, when you go to the supermarket or whatever, you don't even see how much is paid in taxes and how much was the, yeah, we don't, like the law actually says it has to be like the full price in the store.

So then nobody pays attention. Like in the last piece of paper you get, of course, it's the detail, but like really small and nobody reads it. And then so nobody has like the actual feeling of how much of their wealth of their money is going to these guys. And then they talk to you in some big numbers like our currency has like a lot of zeros. So it's like I don't know how much that is. And we spend this much. And it's like super hard for regular people to really feel it, to really know like, whoa, that's a lot of money.

And yeah, I cannot wait for more transparency and to have them accountable. Yeah, absolutely. that's again really good points and let's hope that you know as as as as things continue to to happen i do think that there's this going to be this sovereign individual thesis that plays out to a degree where people jurisdictionally shop for where they get the most bang for their buck and one of those things that people may be looking for is how transparent are you with your treasury like if there are taxes involved in living in this jurisdiction. Do I get to actually see where this money is going? And do I get to look at what you're doing? Or is it all opaque? Because maybe I'll opt out.

So yeah, I don't know. Sean, what do you think here? Yeah, I had a couple thoughts because you started off saying how governments can steal from us or they do steal from us in a multitude of ways. And it just has me thinking, you know, one of the things when I was first starting to learn about Bitcoin, I started to learn about all those ways that we get stolen from and how we could get stolen from, you know, and one of the things that always pops into my mind is what happened in Cyprus back in 2013 when they had the bail in, which was basically anyone that had over $100,000 in their bank account or an equivalent of that. If you had more than that, it just got siphoned away and taken to the government. And so it was amazing to me how they justified that.

But they thought that was okay that they could just steal all of this wealth that people had worked for over their whole lives and then just take it. And so there's so many different ways that governments will justify themselves and stealing our wealth. And they won't stop if there's nothing that doesn't stop them. And that's what's so great about Bitcoin is Bitcoin is this thing that's fully transparent. And if you look at the Federal Reserve, it's been around since 1913 and how many, times has it been audited in 111 years? Zero times it's been audited. Because I mean, how would we even audit it? Like, who would do that anyway? Right? It's almost impossible to audit at this point. It's just so far, so far gone. And then you look at El Salvador and yesterday,

Naibu Kelle post, he goes out and posts and he goes, this is our wallet. He posts a picture from Mimpool, right? This is our wallet address. This is how much Bitcoin we've moved in there. And what happens? They get a bunch of people giving them more Bitcoin. It's like not only is transparency good, but people are starting to reward you for being transparent. And so you have these countries that are grasping on to the power that they have. You have these other countries like El Salvador that are realizing, well, we don't have any power.

We don't have any influence in the world. And Bitcoin is this one chance for us to gain, to, to, to, to, to, make this shift and it's at this opportune time. And so as more countries start to understand what Buckele has understood, it's going to be really fun to see this game theory play out and watch how it will go from, it'll be the sovereign individual thesis that countries will focus on providing a good country for their citizens instead of being so worried about having power and control and surveillance over their citizens because people will just decide to move to whatever country treats them best.

And so I think that's as you don't get stolen from, as your country actually gives you freedom money, then you will want to live in a country that facilitates what that helps you have a better life. And I think that's that's the good thing about governments not stealing from you versus government stealing from you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's funny. You know, I did see some of those random additional tips come in. It's hilarious to think that everybody regularly at every possible legal way always tries to prevent giving the government any more money than they want to scrape away from you. And then you kept an instance of a government actually doing something that benefited some people and being transparent about things.

This may or may not be one of the first times that a number of regular citizens freely gave additional money to the government. But it is it is hilarious. Remember when that one ETF? I can't remember which one it was, but they posted their address too. And then people started sending them Bitcoin as well like a month ago. It's like they're now over collateralized in their own ETF. I think I understand the the sending extra money to the ETF less than at least maybe maybe like with El Salvador you're like well you know they're doing a good oh for whatever reason yeah but like the ETF like I mean please don't give them more money yeah come on this we don't need anymore they can print more fiat and buy some more sats themselves from the suckers that will accept it If anything, it's an accounting nightmare for that CFO.

Yeah. Making his day hard. Yeah. So, yeah, it was pretty funny. But anyways, I'm going to, I don't want to dwell on my topic for too long. But, yeah, I do think it's an interesting dynamic. And I do hope that we trend towards that. I know there'll be deviations from that.

I know there'll be resistance to that. But I hope that kind of the free market that, Bitcoin allows for and this sovereign individual thesis in jurisdictional arbitrage and and jurisdictional shopping will encourage this type of behavior more and more over time to a point where we get to a world that if a government isn't publicly posting its Bitcoin treasury, it's it's very clear that they're probably doing something funny with the money. So, yeah. With that said, we're going to do a rotation here.

And I do have to give a couple of shoutouts in the chat here. Number one, Adam Meister was in here. I think he still is, but absolute legend. Been around forever doing shows. It was awesome. And actually was kind enough to be one of the first shows to invite me on as a guest like seven years ago. So, yeah, so shout out to Adam.

I also want to give a shout out to Tip, who is an absolute legend. Is Tip coming down to the halving party, Sean? Yeah, she's going to be there and she's doing a live performance. Oh, the performance called Dawn, if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken. So it's going to be her performances are, they hit different. Yeah, I'm super stoked for that because I couldn't see her on stage because they had me working all the workshops in Madeira so I didn't get to see her her live one there but I will be front and center for that one and then yeah last show up but I see Jaime there in in the chat

and he's one of the nodes of the me premiere Bitcoin educational camp and awesome dude and he's been part of the local sat market here in Calgary as well so yeah Yeah, anyways, enough of my chat chilling here. But anyways, we'll do a rotation. I want to toss it over to Eric next. And I'll just cue you up with this simple question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? I'm bullish for two reasons.

First and foremost, there is a lot of hoddlers of bitties out there right now. And I think that that's one of the most bullish, if not the most bullish thing that's happening in Bitcoin right now. Number two is Bitcoin communities. And I think I kind of broke the only rule of not alluding to my bullish reason in the beginning. But I did. And I think that, look, out in Denver, we've got the space emerging. And there's, we got a lot of strong, strong lads and ladies that are supporting this, you know, bottom up Bitcoin community. And it's really cool. I think back in the fall, some of the guys got together and we're like, why don't, why don't we build our own, you know, Bitcoin Commons, Bitcoin Park type place and how do we do this in a really member-owned way?

And within a matter of months, we've organized this large community of people who want to all get involved with membership, but we're talking to companies that are looking to sponsor and support it. And it's not just us. This is happening all over the world. And I think that like the ability for people to organize around a shared sense. of values, promoting freedom, promoting Bitcoin, promoting open-source technology, and the fact that this model can be replicated all around the country. And it's such of, it's something that's happening so rapidly.

I think that that's also one of the most bullish forces. I think that a lot of the education is coming at the local level and a lot of advocacy as well to people in the broader community is coming at the local level. So yeah, I'm really excited. We also have Tatum Turnup as our intern. So that's another very bullish aspect. I mean, if anything, he'll, you know, he can be used as human shield because he always has his vest on, right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, totally. It's very important. Yeah, but the problem is he got his car stolen, so how's he going to get around? It's so funny, man. He moves out to Denver and he's like, I'm coming to Denver. And then, yeah, he's just, he didn't have a car. for like a whole month and I'm picking them up and driving them around everywhere. And then like within two weeks of getting his car out here, the thing gets stolen.

I was like, oh, shit, man. Didn't they find it and it was like full of drugs or something? Yeah, it was like it was in a very dark place. Yeah, it was just Tatum. Tatum did a deal and it went bad. He just didn't want anybody to know. No, that's, I echo the community thing. Like I think that one of the most important things to help Bitcoin, whether the storm that could be coming in terms of top-down attempts to stamp it out, is having local communities.

Because like, what's the first thing that gets attacked on and off-ramps? How do you prevent being attacked? You have a local community that you know and you don't need on and off-ramps because you're just always on. you're always using Bitcoin. You are always utilizing it day to day. And if you need goods or services, you go to the person that you've created a one-to-one connection with. And you say, hey, man, can I pick up some eggs?

Like, how, I try to stamp that out, right? Try and have the government say, hey, you guys that are friends, if I fucking find out that you go get eggs and give this guy some sats, you're toast. Like that's that is unenforceable. And so, yeah, I mean, communities are so important. That's just one example of how they'd be important. But there's many avenues that that could be explored there.

Yeah. And I think like you, I feel like it was on the last one, the last where we bullish. I feel like we got into a similar conversation. I think you asked the question you were like, you know, is the adoption of Bitcoin going to come from, you know, these bottom up movements that are emerging around the world, is this going to be some sort of top-down nation-state form of adoption? Yeah. And I think when we're getting into that conversation, it's just like, you know,

it's coming from all angles. And I think that, you know, because Bitcoin is money, because it's economically aligned with the interests of society, it's something that everybody has their interests aligned with adopting it in some way, shape, or form. And that's why it's so easy in any conversation. to be like, well, the game theory works out in favor of Bitcoin. And the game theory works out because it makes sense for the world to have something like Bitcoin.

The game theory only works out for fiat money for minority groups of people in powerful positions. It's drastically misaligned with the interests of people for the vast majority of the world. And it's that powerful aspect that pushes it not only at a top-down level where there's, you know, very selfish institutional incentives to want to adopt Bitcoin. and that's great. But also at the bottom-up community-based level. And when we're hitting from all angle, every angle, you know, that's what makes it inevitable. Yeah.

I just got to give a shout out to the best comment of the show so far. Dom says that Tatum's car is unable to utilize any offer. That's great. Flo, what's the community like down in your neck of the woods? What's it like down there? It's really starting, I think. It's small. There are people who have been in the space for many years.

There was like a Bitcoin ONG or something like that. I don't quite remember the name. But the thing was, me and my family, because we are all very hardcore Bitcoiners, never got too much involved in it because the scene was really cheap coinery. So that was like, eh. We didn't pay much attention, I guess. Last year we actually said, like, okay, this is important. Like all what you guys have said, like we need to be more part of this.

And actually it's been better. And also, well, Chile has like a very weird Bitcoin history because at some point, for example, all the exchanges that were operating here got their bank accounts shut, like from one day to another. like all together at the same time. So all banks were, of course, talking about this. So they had their accounts shut for one month. This was a lot of news.

So people were like, oh, this is really a scam and blah, blah, blah. And they actually had to sue the banks. And luckily, the judge said until the sue is like over, they had to reopen the account. So the banks were only closed for one month, but that got really bad publicity. And since then, the second effect, it has been that since then, no new company could enter the space because no bank would open a new account because they were all in this thing. So I think that's also been something very important in how this has developed. And it's been slower than in any other country I've seen in Latin America at least.

And also, I think sometimes when you have a lot of privilege in financially, you think, oh, what can I do with my money? I don't want to lose value. When you are like very extremely not privileged, like you are the opposite, like, okay, how can I survive this? I look for alternatives. When you're like in the middle, I think it was the case of my country, I guess you don't, the question doesn't come that easily into people's heads.

Like they are like, okay, this is good. If we compare with the next door country, like, it's not that bad. But also I don't have that many savings so that I can think of how to invest this. Education, financial education is not that cool. So I don't know if you lost me or if I know. You're still there. Okay, so I got a really red thingy. So yeah, yeah, Chile is a very weird thing.

weird country in that regard. So I'm curious when that came about, so when they shut down all the bank accounts with these exchanges, was there a little bit of people trying to troubleshoot and doing peer-to-peer? Like did any of that come about or was that just not really thought? No, it's really small. Even today, we try to do peer-to-peer all the time. year all the time. I'm getting paid in Bitcoin. So, of course, I'm one of those person that has to sell Bitcoin to spend for their needs. So that's really hard. I'm

always asking around like someone want to buy. It's, yeah, it's not very much. Yeah. But I think, again, it's growing, but at that moment now I did. Interesting. I guess it just speaks to the fact that we need better and more accessible tools for peer to peer, right? We need it to be easy so that anybody can, without having to be technically literate, can find others to exchange Bitcoin with. So, yeah, that's very interesting to hear. Also, apparently we are alive in the Don't Stop Believing space right now. So maybe I'm going to do a shill and tell everybody to come down to the half,

having party if we're in there right now. So yellow. I hope you have air horns are going something like that as I'm saying that. But yeah, no BSB spaces. Anyways, I want to toss it to Sean. What are your thoughts on community? I mean, you're obviously big on it. What, you know, in and around what Eric is saying here.

Anything you want to go down? Yeah, I think one thing that kind of got brought to my mind is I think that there still needs to be more Bitcoin education in the Spanish language. I think that's definitely something that I've noticed is there's still is a lack of education in Spanish. There's there used to be a lack of education in the English language. You know, when when I first got started in this in Bitcoin, like in 2017, there wasn't a ton of Bitcoin only podcast and and articles, books that you could read. So I think as more education comes along, then more people understand And people should be upset in Chile when they're, when they're shutting off these Bitcoin exchanges.

They should be upset. They should be asking themselves, well, why are they doing it? But a lot of times they're just so wrapped up in the Fiat world that they think, oh, that's good. You know, like those are, that's for criminals. And they believe the propaganda that they're fed. So I think going along with what Eric was saying, it's good to have, it's good to have that social layer because you, If you are the only one that understands what's going on, you can kind of feel crazy at times. So, like having other people around you, like when I first started going down the rabbit hole,

for probably the first two years, I didn't have anyone that I could talk to about Bitcoin with, no one in my family, none of my friends. So you start to go a little crazy. And then you get on Twitter and you go, okay, there's actually people who see what I'm seeing that's going on right now. Like, we're all getting stolen from. and the government's treating us unfairly. But then when you start to meet up with these people, and that's why I love, you know,

I've gone to a lot of different conferences, and I go to our local meetup out here where I live, and I've gotten a lot of different local meetups, even in Europe when I was playing basketball out there. And it's fun because there's people that are aware to the issues that are going on, and as you talk with those people, you can come up with new solutions faster than they can block us

from creating those solutions. And I think that's what's so great about that social layer that is very overlooked. You know, a lot of people say, like, you know, nothing's going to stop Bitcoin. But if the people just decide to give it up, like, that's how we lose is we just don't keep working at it. We don't keep working on it. We don't keep spreading adoption. And we just fall prey to Fiat and the monster that it is.

So as we continue to spread that education and then all of it, then we actually give ourselves more freedom by giving other people that freedom as well. So it works both ways. Yeah. Yeah. It's a compounds over time, right? Like as you said, there wasn't a lot of, you know, back in the day. There was nothing to really find, you know, there'd be the odd podcast that you might be able to find.

I think I remember there was one or two podcasts that had anything about Bitcoin. and I would have to wait each week to listen to like the one that I liked. It was Trace Mayer's Bitcoin Knowledge Podcast. And I was like, it would wait every week to be like, can somebody just tell me how awesome Bitcoin is in my ears for all I need? And then it's like you'd never get through it all. There's more Bitcoin content that gets put out there than we can listen to. Yeah.

Back in those days, you'd have to listen to the Altcoin podcast. and you're trying to figure out what's going on. And then they would talk about Alkcoins for like 50 minutes. And then 10 minutes they talk about Bitcoin. I was like, oh, this stuff actually makes sense. Yeah. I remember my disappointment when Epicenter Bitcoin just became epicenter. And they started chilling like Ethereum and all the other trash.

And I was like, guys, come on. Even though I hadn't quite honed in on why Bitcoin only yet, I still threw me for a loop and I was like, I don't know about this. Yeah. Yeah, when I was first learning about Bitcoin and, you know, I understood the problems with central banking really well. And, you know, when I was first pitched to me, it was like, oh, it's this new blockchain technology.

And that didn't make any sense to me at all. Like, okay, well, the same arguments like this was going around today on Twitter because of the Vanguard CEO saying, you know, it doesn't produce cash flows. It's a speculative investment. It doesn't have any fundamental value. And I had that exact perspective. I'm like, well, if it's some sort of technology, how do I value this technology? Once I understood, oh, this is an alternative form of money, well, that's not something that produces cash flows.

It's something that it hasn't happened in centuries. It's this very novel thing. And that made a ton of sense to me. I just didn't realize for the longest period of time that that's what it was. It was just some weird tech. And I look at YouTube videos and look at how the blockchain's organized. And I'm just like, I don't really know this is. And then like once you get into Bitcoin, too, it's like I probably spent.

a year and a half, two years, just spending my free time digging into all the other all coins and figuring out what are the other consensus mechanisms and why are these ones better. And it takes so long, or at least back in that point in time, it was a lot harder to get led to the right resources and say like, oh, this is what makes Bitcoin unique. This is why none of these other coins can replicate these properties. This is what's fundamentally solving the problem. And yeah, but there's like the spider web of knowledge that people, can get let into. And that can take up a, it's a huge opportunity cost of time where it's like,

no, you could have actually ended up getting a lot deeper into some aspects of Bitcoin, which are more valuable. Yeah. One of the easiest things to realize is there's 21 million. And so if there's any altcoin that you add to that, then now there's more than 21 million. You know, like there's 21 million plus whatever else thing you're using, you know. And so it's just at the simplest level, it's just like there's 21 million and that's it. And that's so much, it's so easy to understand if you can think about it that way, you know. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an interesting thing trying to figure out the, the why of first of the why of Bitcoin and then the why of why is Bitcoin different from every everything else. And it takes time. But I will say

that since, I think since 20, like the run in 2021, I have seen some people make some of the quickest course corrections from first coming in, finding Bitcoin or sometimes coming in through some other like Ethereum or whatever, and then they get in and they start consuming some content. And as long as they get led to the material that explains why Bitcoin is different, as soon as they go down that path and they actually consume it, there's kind of no coming back from that. It becomes very difficult to parse this cohesive narrative that has been painstakingly put together over the course of years, but has remained relatively consistent versus the ever. shifting, you know, whack-a-mole of like, now we do this, we do this because Bitcoin can't do, oh, it can. Well, we do this now. And we're ultrasound money. We're whatever. It's never shifting. And so, like, when you have a narrative that changes every other week and then you have

this relatively consistent, like learning trajectory of what is Bitcoin, how do we understand it, and how is it evolving, it becomes a lot more clear, even though Bitcoin is different things to different people, the qualities of it have remained consistent. So yeah. But with that, I think I'm going to put a bow on this topic as well. I've enjoyed that. Again, the community angle, I think, is very important. And building out stuff local and finding the Bitcoiners around you is incredibly important.

There's a lot of good ways to do it too. You know, BTCMAP.org, finding all the Bitcoin businesses around you, going to your local meetup and actually making connections with people. OrangePill app is sweet for, like, local specific finding other bitcoinsers. Satmap.app.app is another like finding merchants website. So there's a lot of different things that you can do to kind of find the Bitcoiners around you. And then if you don't have a meetup, make a meetup and find Bitcoins around you. and start. And if you don't have merchants around you, I mean, if there's a bunch of Bitcoiners in a room and a meetup, you all do something. You all have skills and services and goods that you offer.

Why on earth would you not accept Bitcoin for them, right? You all know that it's better money. Why would you not just accept it? So yeah, hold some people's feet to the fire. A lot of people just don't even make that connection. Like, I got to go fiat mine and then go buy Bitcoin. Well, not necessarily you can just cut one of those steps out of there if you want. So anyways, we're going to do a rotation. I am going to toss it down to flow now. And I'm going to queue you up with the same question. Everybody gets.

Why are you bullish? I have so many reasons to be bullish. I'm always bullish. I'm always bullish. I'm a perma. I have a bitconer family so that it's always optimistic in here. where I live but I'm just getting down to one thing since I started working with Bitcoin companies I've really gotten very bullish about like people building and the idea of spend and replace and what we were just talking about it's very like the

community aspect but then this merchant side of it and also like the idea of maybe you can leave the Bitcoin standard now, like today. You don't have to wait too many other people start doing it, and then you start doing it. It's okay. It's not that easy to start it when you're a few people, but yeah, I'm bullish on BITES. I got distracted. But yeah, I think since I started working with these companies, the thing was I just got very bored of Fiat companies, it was very awful to like getting these conversations about like just to readjust your

salary because of inflation and everything. Like in terms of the inflation here, your salary gets down a lot like each year. But if you convert that to, for example, US dollars or whatever, it's like much more. And nobody, like you have to fight for that. It's not a race. It's like I just want to get paid the same as when we started. Like, I'm not asking for more. Yeah, that mindset and everything like that.

I just, and I didn't have any time for my art. It was a very hard place for me to be at that moment. And I said, like, I have to quit. I'll quit my job. And I'll find something in Bitcoin. I don't know what. I don't know how. Because I don't know how to do, like, I'm not, I don't know,

computer scientists or whatever. It's the first thing that you think when you're, like, building in Bitcoin or I don't know how to make a hardware wallet or stuff like that. Luckily, I found amazing people who saw something in me. And I've been living in the Bitcoin standards from that moment on. I have a lot of support. I'm not going to lie. Like, I have a lot of support from my family.

So I'm trying to get there and walk in the road. But it's something that's got me very bullish and that I hope. more people get to do and to feel and to experience and not be afraid of because you spend some sats you're going to be like the pizza dude and yeah i mean if you're spending fiat that's fiat that you didn't convert to sets you know you just don't have the exact timing of how much it was but um but yeah that's that's i think my main reason today i i like that i like well number one that you can, that you said, you can be on a Bitcoin standard today. You can. You can.

You're right. It's not necessarily always easy. There's additional hoops to be jumping through. But on an ideological level, as you mentioned, if you're not spending Bitcoin, like, if you don't have to spend Bitcoin, and this is a paraphrased from a quote of Francis's Francis Puliott's panel in Madeira, if you don't have to spend Bitcoin, you're short Bitcoin. Because that means you have fiat to spend. And so like every dollar that you're spending is the opportunity cost of when it could have been sats.

And so I know that that's not a comfortable place for some people. And like that fluctuation from day to day or week to week or month a month can be difficult to navigate with cash flows and things. like that. But I mean, I've been doing it for four years, you know, some months it kind of sucks where you get a paycheck and then shit drops and you're like, oh. But, you know, what's the meme? Green, green, green, red. More often than not, you're doing pretty well. You know, once in a while, there's a year that kind of sucks more often than not. But the majority of your time, you're quite happy. As long as you provide value for others, you spend less than you earn and you

save in Bitcoin. And so if you can if you can kind of master those skills as being on a Bitcoin standard forces you to do, then you're well off. So even if it's temporarily painful and it causes you to need to adjust your habits, the newly formed habits will greatly improve your life moving forward for years to come. So I'm a huge advocate of just jumping onto a Bitcoin standard if you're in a position where there's some resources where you can make it happen. And if not, start building them yourself, build that local community and you can at least partially get onto a Bitcoin standard right off the hob. So yeah, I don't know. I would say to it, I think it's really interesting. You know, being on a Bitcoin standard,

you know i personally maybe i'm a little bit short bitcoin because i'm i'm not uh i'd still pay a lot of my bills all my bills and dollars but um i would say what's what's interesting about it at least so far is this is also what kind of you know there's a lot of the degens that come in that want to flip two hundred dollars to become a millionaire or something like that but with bitcoin we're just worried about okay i just want to I want to earn my money. I want to earn more than I spend. And then I want to save that in Bitcoin. And so for us, it's not, you know, the biggest thing that people say all the time is that Bitcoin is the speculative asset. And for most hardened Bitcoiners, it's the opposite of a speculative asset. It's our savings. And crypto, like all those cryptos, people are flipping in and out,

trying to find when the pump is, when the dump, but get out before the dump happens. And with Bitcoin, you don't see that very often. You see most bitcoinsers, what are we trying to do? We're just trying to increase our stack of Bitcoin. And yeah, sometimes we end up having to spend it. Maybe we have a business that you're trying to start, and that's savings. You know, that's what savings is. And, you know, and so that's how I look at Bitcoin is it's not this speculative asset.

It's actually our savings. And people, most Bitcoiners, yeah, maybe we come in here for the gains, but then we realize there's actually a revolution going on here. And we use it as our savings. And I think that's what's hard for a lot of people to understand too, is they go, I need to buy one whole Bitcoin, and I need it to go to a million dollars right away. And it's like, or you could buy, you know, a thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin

and then just keep having reoccurring buys every single month from your paycheck. And, you know, when you explain like that to people, then it becomes a lot more manageable, because it's not this huge thing that you have to overcome to get one whole Bitcoin. It's like just get a little bit at a time. And as you get more, then you understand why it is our savings. And it's not this speculative asset. Yeah.

Sean, also, just so you know, rest in peace, your notifications. I'm a little bit short Bitcoin, Sean Harris. That just went out to the Twitterverse. That's awesome. We all are. Everyone is except for a sailor. We'll see what kind of replies we get by the end of this. See what happens.

Eric, what are your thoughts here on? Yeah, I'm a little short Bitcoin as well. And as in terms of like from like a financial perspective, it's like, I, you know, I was talking to some of the guys who are, you know, like to get on zero type me being movement and like I get it and I think that ultimately when you dig into the details of what it is it's you know it's meant to what you're saying just like there's a certain level of wealth that enables you to you know start living this kind of a lifestyle and everybody has this balance between needing something that does have some sort of short term liquid

stability and then something that's long term savings that actually is going to protect your wealth and everybody wants to optimize for that. But what I caution everybody with is one of the worst positions you want to be in is a point where you do have to, you're not able to afford to pay for something that's very serious, whatever that is. Like, wealth is insurance. Wealth is a way that we can self-insure ourselves for all these little risks that come about in life. And when you are subject to a large exposure of Bitcoin, you want to make sure that all your major risks in life are very well insured,

whether that's directly through your wealth or some sort of other means because that's also important too. And your time is much more valuable than Bitcoin. Yeah. It's again, yeah, you just don't want to be in a position where you're on the sidelines when suddenly you're able to afford many less sets than, I mean, we've seen that already in the past. I mean, just this year alone. It's crazy. kind of I mean I don't think anybody assumed that we would have breached all time highs pre-having yeah um like that I mean adam back back in the fall saying a hundred K by by having which like to me I was you know I kind of

chuckled at it and you know and now all of a sudden everybody's like oh holy shit that's actually like in my having like you never you never know like a lot has happened in a single month like even in Madeira we went I think when I got to Madeira it was like 50. That was like that was a couple weeks ago. And now we're in a dip at 68. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's bearish at 60. It is it is hilarious to see. And yeah, I don't know. Like it's, I saw something in the in the chat here. Somebody's saying it's hard to save in Bitcoin. FCA have regulated.

to the industry, only 10% of income allowed to be invested in crypto unless you're a high net worth individual or certified. What I would say to that is fuck those guys and go use peer-to-peer exchanges. Go use hoddle-hottle. Bisk has a new version of their exchange coming out pretty quick here. Robosats is another option. I think in Europe, Peach is an option. But like just find ways peer to peer to obtain Bitcoin.

Like I would never, never let another individual tell me how much Bitcoin I can own. Like quite honestly, go fuck yourself. So, you know, I would take that approach. And if somebody's telling you that you can't own a certain amount of Bitcoin and you and you do indeed want more, go get it. It's yours to get. Unless it's a spouse, right? Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How many of us have had that conversation? You're not buying it. We don't need any more. Although I will say, you know what? I'm very proud. I'm very proud of my wife, Lisa the other day.

We're going through. So like in Canada, when you get a mortgage, your mortgage, it's not like you just get your interest rate for the entire term. You have to renegotiate every five years, even if it's fixed. Yeah. Does it change with the fluctuation rates? Yeah. Yeah.

So like you know, we have a rate that's like two point something. And next year it gets renegotiated. And we're looking and we're like, okay, well, this is what the payments are probably going to be. And then you have the option. You can pay a lump sum up to a certain amount without getting penalties. And we're kind of looking at it. And then Lisa's like, yeah, but like we could just. hold the Bitcoin and the amount of money that that would go up versus like what we would save on our monthly payments.

Why don't we just hold the Bitcoin? Fuck it. I was like, I mean, I've really twisted my arm here. Of course. I don't know. I don't want to. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, yeah, it's I think, I think people are, are starting to.

weigh those opportunity costs in their day-to-day lives. I love to see it. Proud husband, too. They co-to see the ultimate opportunity cost. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I like the chat. David Rong, Sessions' wife, launching a speculative. Flow, I also wanted to, because I'm seeing bitties in the chat constantly,

Can we explain that? So, I mean, it's the new unit, right? It's a new unit, yeah. I mean, Sats is the standard. And when Adam back chills bits all the time, I'm fucking out. But I could probably, you know, I could get on board with bitties. Sats are for nerds. Yeah, I need a handful of bitties is what I need.

I'm catching on. Okay, well, with that, we're going to do one more rotation. We'll put a bow on that last topic. And Sean, I'm going to toss it your way. And same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? Yes, I am bullish because something that I like to call the proof of work outside of Bitcoin. which puts me in like a Bitcoin Zen mode.

And the proof of work outside of Bitcoin is just, and this is similar, very similar actually to Eric Amflow's reasons, is I just see so many businesses that are Bitcoin only that are being built that has nothing to do with actual proof of work. You know, we talk about what Adam Back did. But the actual proof,

there's proof of work that goes into building this layer that we're building, which are all these businesses and all of these tools and the apps and everything that we need on top of Bitcoin. And it puts me, what I said, it puts me at a Bitcoin Zinmo because whether Bitcoin goes up or down, every time I look on Twitter, there's another, there's something better that I'm looking for. Like, oh, I wish Bitcoin could do this or I wish I could do this with my Bitcoin or, you know, like a nun check. Like I can multi-sig my Bitcoin and I can use those little digital.

tap signers as my keys to multi-sig. It's amazing all of the things that are being built on top of Bitcoin. And this is something that I truly believe. And I know I hype you up a lot, but it's true, Ben, because I really believe that with Bitcoin, you're only as powerful as you can understand how to use your Bitcoin. I think you have very limited power in Bitcoin. if you only know how to receive Bitcoin and send it to cold storage. That's powerful.

It's very powerful. But if you don't know how to set up a business and put it on, you know, have a BTC pay server or have any of those things, you don't have people in your group that know how to do that, then it makes it harder for you. You know, you can earn KYC free sats. And there's so many different things about building on this layer that are going on right now. You know, even things like a like what happens when you've done. what happens to your stats and there's so many different things that are being built on top of bitcoin this

proof of work layer that's going on right now that i'm super bullish about and as bitcoin becomes the bedrock of our financial economy every business will have to plug into bitcoin and so we're seeing that slowly happen and i'm that's why i'm so bullish about bitcoin because you know this is truly a transformation that's going on and it's taking place and if you're not paying attention you're you're not even aware of all of this building that's going on because it's happening online you know and and so you could be living your life and there's plenty of people that we all know they have no idea of what's going on right i'll tell people that i'm that i'm throwing an event you know with a meme factor we're throwing an event in el salvador and they'll say what oh why

el salvador they don't even know you know don't even know that a country has made bitcoin legal Tinder. So how would they know that a nunchuck is doing multi-sig? Right. And so it's like how many things, and I see new businesses built every day. And to me, that's one of the most bullish things is that there's always a gap and there's always places for us to get better at using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, which will ultimately lead it to being our unit of account. When stats are the standard. And when that and one day people will wake up and things will be priced in in stats instead of in And they won't even understand how it happened. And we're just watching it happen, you know, in the background.

And we can participate. And we are participating in the happening. And so that's why I'm bullish. I love it, man. I think, again, the Bitcoin-only businesses. And not only that, like, there's businesses catering to Bitcoiners, obviously, that are, that are Bitcoin only. But there's also just regular day-to-day businesses that are incorporating Bitcoin in various senses. Accepting it and everything like that is great.

But, I mean, look at the success that any Bitcoin, any company has had by allocating Bitcoin to their treasury, just by using it as a savings mechanism. Like, look at how much growth Tahini's has had. Yeah. You know, like to quote, to quote American Hoddle, he was, he was shitting on financial advisors around the globe and saying, why are you underperforming Tahini's restaurants? Like, and it's true, it's true. Like there's a pretty simple tactic again, and I say it again and again, provide value for others, spend less than you earn, saving Bitcoin.

Like, it's a pretty, pretty easy equation there to figure out if you can provide value first. And so, you know, and again, the builders in the Bitcoin space, some of the applications and some of the services, like, first of all, BTC pay. I'm glad you mentioned them. Just this incredible open source project being funded by the community. and they've brought so much value to people being able to trustlessly and independently be payment processors for themselves, cutting out those middlemen. But I mean, even in that same space, you got Parker Lewis with Zappright. And like that, that's an amazing tool too.

Like, again, non-custodial, just like plug in your wallet information. And it's just like a nice looking page where people can go and, and make payments and you can send out invoices. You know, you've got the team at Mutiny and everything that they're building and in and around making lightning as self-custodial, but as seamless and obfuscated to the background as possible. So you can just download a wallet,

of course, in the app stores, but, you know, in the advent of top-down coercion to be removed from app stores, just as a web app and be able to manage your Bitcoin Lightning non-custodially.

All this automation of lightning is insane. And even Bolts, I got to give a shout out to Bolts because they're building incredible stuff where you can effectively the end game of what Bolts is doing is somebody being able to say, I accept Bitcoin.

And it doesn't matter in what form. You just basically say, here's an invoice and it'll say to the person paying. How are you paying? Lightning, on chain, liquid, probably more in the future. And it will simply interpret what the person who the merchant is wants to receive, what the person who the payer is wants to send, and it just does it in the middle, non-custodial.

That's where we're headed, where it's like, if you go to the grocery store, they don't give a shit if you're paying in cash. or credit card or debit card or gift card, they just receive the money. And that's, and in the way that they want it eventually, now we're going to receive it in the way that we want it instantaneously with organs in the background where we don't even notice. So you're right.

Like the Bitcoin builders that are building out this world, it's going to be seamless. And it's already getting there. I'll let other people jump in. I just like to get on those little... Can I say something? Yeah. I think that there's also a very cool perspective in this trade of, like, when you buy something with Bitcoin, I was listening to, I don't know, I don't remember which podcast it was,

but they were talking about this subject. It was very beautiful because when you are, when you are a bitconer, you are producing something and you want to sell it for bitcoin you immediately give your best like i think that when you're asking people to give them their to give you their their bitcoin um you have to give your your ultimate best effort and and and provide the best value you can and i think it uh because otherwise like you're cheating everyone is a scammer they say I'm taking your Bitcoin. So I'll give my best effort.

For me, I don't know, as an artist, but I see it in the companies I work. I see the effort in Panties for Bitcoin. I see when we are doing the marketing in Lovis Bitcoin, like so much effort we put behind everything we do because we know what we are asking people for. We know how valuable that is. So we give our best effort.

And I kind of see that in other companies where I don't work. Like, I have that feeling too, like that when I pay with my Bitcoin, I'm receiving the best value that person can give at that moment, at least. And if they can improve, they will improve the product, you know? Like, it's something that is sticking my mind from that podcast, and it's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. It, there's an artist. actually when we saw each other in person and Dave was there with that roller of

Madex's art, Madex, one of my favorite things that he says is if you're a merchant and you accept Bitcoin and you sell your products or goods of services for Bitcoin and they're not top notch, you will not retain that customer beyond the initial sale. If that's are precious and people start to think more. more carefully about where they allocate the fruits of their labor. And so moving forward, like the incentive structure is such that you need to be so good at what you do or what you make that it entices people to separate themselves from their sats. And that's a monumental task as it should be.

And it's not a monumental task nowadays to separate people from their dollars because they don't give a shit. They'll just spend, they'll buy the same trinkety shit, have a break. and then literally go back and buy the exact same one knowing that it's crap and it's going to break again so like it's just everything is disposable because so is the money and so i think we're getting away from that i think we're getting to hard money and hard products yeah i love how it it's it kind of shapes us apart from this consummism like to understand that this, yeah, hardcore consummism is part of, it's not stupid when you have melting money.

Like if it's melting in your hands, spend it and have something that has a little more value in a way. And then you're like, you are in that mentality all the time. So why would you hold the money? You just buy stupid plastic stuff all the time that gives you a little joy for a moment. And then another one, another one, it's like an addiction. So I love that this is going to bring us back to quality stuff. Like I remember like my grandparents, I don't know, refrigerator that ran for like all the years I could remember. And it was always working.

And then you could like fix it a little bit and it still worked. And now everything is like, let's throw it in the garbage because it is garbage, you know. So yeah, I love that. Sean or Eric, do you want to dive in here at all? Yeah, I think I, you know, I think that one thing that's underappreciated, too, about Bitcoin companies is, you know, this idea, once Bitcoin becomes your opportunity cost, a lot of entrepreneurs are taking on a ton of risk investing in people, time, energy, things that could be invested towards accumulating more Bitcoin, but instead they're taking on risk in a way that supports Bitcoin. And not only do I think that that's going to be much more valuable for them in the long run, but I think it's something that makes Bitcoin itself much more valuable. I think that this idea that we have 21 million Bitcoin and we can send it to anyone in the world is,

as we've realized over time, is a much more complicated problem as Bitcoin gets more demand and becomes more expensive based on fees. We're trying to figure out all these different ways to scale it. But in this infrastructure, whether it's a lightning network, whether it's more trusted solutions like eCash or some of these other technologies that are on the horizon, there's all these other, there's these very, very smart people working very hard and, you know, sacrificing quite a bit to be building out of future that, you know, if you think Bitcoin's just going to become digital gold, you know, that's very valuable. It's going to be much more valuable based on that. But if you think Bitcoin is going to become freedom money, then these technologies need to be built. And Bitcoin's going to be a hundred times more valuable if it can achieve that size of market with money. And so, yeah, not only is it, I think, valuable to be doing as an entrepreneur,

but I think that, you know, the future of Bitcoin and really just how much further its adoption spreads really depends. It's on the backs of these guys who are working on solving these really hard problems. And yeah, it's totally badass. Agreed. Agreed. Well, I don't know, Sean, if you have any last things to tag on here before I go into kind of beginning to round out. But I'll give you the last opportunity here in regards to this specific topic. No, I mean, I guess I would just say, you know, that Bitcoin,

It just doesn't it never stops amazing me about how much continually gets built on it and there's like there's no one really out there like there's no CEO of Bitcoin. There's no board of Bitcoin and yet people it's this thing that just continues to grow. And so I never get worried about it. I never get worried that government will ban it. I never get worried that it will just lose momentum. because I can see that the idea of Bitcoin is out there. I can see that by how many businesses are being built on top of Bitcoin. And so for me, I don't get worried about if the price goes down a little bit

or if we're in a bare market, I understand what's going on in the bigger scheme of things. And that's that Fiat continues to debase itself. And Bitcoin, there's only 21 million. And so the idea of Bitcoin is out there and it's never going to stop. It's only going to go stronger. Love it. Well, I think that's a good note to begin rounding up on. What I like to do usually at the end of the show is just do a quick hop over to each guest.

Any final thoughts that you may want to get off your chest. But more importantly, I love to get recommendations. from the guests of something cool that the viewers can check out. And this could be really anything. It could be a new video or article that you checked out. This could be even just like a piece of life advice that you think would be useful or more specific, an app, a device, really anything that you think would be great. So I guess final thoughts.

I mean, we focused in and around a lot of the. I mean, the theme of the show very much was kind of community driven or communities holding those in higher places in the community to be responsible for them and be transparent. And so I think in and around the community aspect of this, my recommendation is going to be once again, to be a part of your local community, to find the bitcoins around you, to make those connections. If you're a bitcoiner and you're of the mind that you're just gonna have to hide away

and never speak to anybody and never tell anybody that you're at all interested in Bitcoin, I mean, like I understand to a degree the worry, given the growth of Bitcoin and then the value of Bitcoin. But at the same time, I think Bitcoin survives and thrives when Bitcoiners band together. And so I encourage you guys to go to your local meetups, create one if you don't have one, and begin the process of figuring out, like, everybody, when they get into Bitcoin,

they want to figure out how they can contribute. And so what better way to figure that out than to be in a group of Bitcoiners and actually chat with them? and understand what other Bitcoiners need. And I think this is how we grow. This is how we win. And this is how all of the communities that we're seeing pop up now, that we've kind of seen pop up over the past number of years, whether it be Bitcoin Beach or Bitcoin Island or Bitcoin jungle,

like all of these kind of hubs that are beginning to proliferate around the globe, that's because Bitcoiners got together and brainstormed and built something cool. And I think when we have this ground up permissionless way of connecting, then that's when great things happen. So let's make more great things happen. So yeah, that's my recommendation. Meet your local bitcoins. Eric, I'm going to toss it to you. Any final thoughts or recommendations?

I echo that sentiment. And I think that as you're looking into communities, and whether you want to replicate your own community outfit or you're just looking for one yourself. The space Denver is most likely to be the best one. And you should definitely check out our website, Denver.Space, as well as our Twitter at Space Denver. We're looking for members. We're looking for sponsors.

I love it. Yeah. Go check it out. And I mean, Tatum will be there to protect you. He's got a best. That's right. Just in case. So, I mean, hit it up.

I've not been to Denver. I'm going to have to check it out. Yeah, we can do a, we'll do a podcast with me, you and Tatum, or between two A6 and a session between two A6. Yeah. Last time I was a guest, he embarrassed me. So I came back for his next episode and stole Joe Nakamoto's vape and blew it and Tate. face. I remember that one, yeah.

But yeah, that's great. Let's toss it down to flow. Final thoughts, recommendations. Yeah, like you said, pay attention to the communities. I really check out what people are building and pay attention to what artists are doing. Bitcoin art is growing so much. It's beautiful there. and actually my last piece was inspired on huddlers and yeah it was like we are we are talking about

more and more and more about this stuff and I love it and spend and replace and stay ungovernable perfect great advice Sean off to you last final thoughts and recommendations yeah my recommendation as for a book other than the seventh property by one and only Eric Yakes is I've actually just got done and finished, or I just finished reading a book by 50 cent called Hustle Smarter, Hustle Harder, which I know kind of sounds a little corny, right? But it's a really good read, especially as a lot of us are looking to become entrepreneurs or become owners of businesses.

I think ownership, this is one of my thoughts I've been thinking about lately, The ownership is very underrated when you can own what you actually do that no one can control your time. They can't control your wealth. And when you work for somebody else, a lot of times, they kind of have a little bit of control over you. So I like 50 cents book a lot. It's been teaching me a lot as I'm in my own world trying to earn more and trying to have more ownership over the things that I actually do. And so ownership is very underrated, in my opinion, not just owning your own Bitcoin, but owning your own work. And so I think that's definitely a recommendation I make.

Hustle Smarter, Hustle Harder by 50 cent. And the last recommendation is obviously come to the halving party in El Salvador, April 3rd to the 5th. We're going to be there. Ben's going to be there. Anyone else who's not going to be there, you're going to miss out because we are dedicated to putting on the best having party every four years, every 210,000 blocks. And that is what we will do from here until 2140. And so we're so excited to get this started. And really come on down to El Salvador. It is Bitcoin Country. And go to BitcoinhavingParty.com. And that's where you're going to be able

to get your tickets. And come to El Salvador. That's where the magical moments will happen. And we'll be doing this every four years. We can't wait to get it started in less than a month. I can't wait until my uploaded consciousness in the avatar gets to party with you at the 21stabic party. Yeah. We'll be dancing. We'll be making everyone else dance. Absolutely.

Well, that's great, man. And I can't wait to see you there. It's going to be a lot of fun. and again Eric Flo, Sean, thank you guys all so much for being here. I appreciate your time. I appreciate you getting bullish with me on a Friday evening. And yeah,

have a great rest of your weekend. You're all welcome back anytime. Love getting bullish with you, bro. Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Eric. Thanks, Flo. No worries. You guys.

You guys later. All right. And everybody in the chat, thank you for being here as well. Much appreciated. glad you guys could spend this Friday evening with me as well. Speaking of events, of course, you know, we've got the having party coming up. If you're in the Calgary area as well, we've got the Saturday market coming up in eight days, actually.

So a week from tomorrow. So if you're in Calgary or if you're anywhere in Alberta or for that reason in BC or Saskatchewan, or if you're in Montana and you want to cross the border and come up, please do. We're building up our local Bitcoin circular economy. We had one back in December for the first time. We're having one again in a week. And we're building up to a big one in July and we'll talk about that in the coming weeks. But please do make it out.

If you want to come, it's free to attend. Just show up. Have a pocket full of sats and get ready to support local merchants. If you still want to be a part of it, if you have a skill, a service, a good that you would like to sell for Bitcoin and you can get to Calgary, reach out immediately reach out to Dave at BitcoinBrains.com and let him know that you would like to be a merchant ASAP before we run out of space. You can also find out about it and all these other events at bTCsessions.ca.ca. There's an events tab. or just BTCSessions.com slash events. You can find the Saturday market there. You can also find info about the having party in El Salvador.

And some of the other events I'm going to be hitting up, which includes the Canadian Bitcoin Conference in Montreal in May, the Azo Freedom Forum in Norway, and the BTC Prague in June. So you can check all those out. Those are all on the events page. Anyways, guys, with that, I am going to round out everything. Thank you guys so much.

for being here and have a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. See you guys next time for your daily session.