BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Tatum Cave, Jacob Parrish, Shane Hazel ep296

Episode Date: October 15, 2022

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What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show. Another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? We've got a killer panel today. All new guests first time on the show. So, yeah, very excited to have everybody on. We'll do some intros momentarily. In the meantime, though, let's, of course, this is live.

Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Fuck it. Do it live. I can write it and we'll do it live.

The fucking thing sucks. If you have not already, like, subscribe, share, all those things, super helpful getting this content in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC Sessions. This is your daily session. So before we bring in our guests, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. We're sitting at $19,116 per coin. Single U.S. dollar will pick you up $5,000. 231 sets, 91.33% of all Bitcoin have been mined.

And in terms of fees, a little bit of a spike, 16 stats per byte next block. If you're willing to wait a little bit, sub 10sats per byte, probably do you. Shout out to sponsor the show, coincugate.com. These guys just have the best damn hardware out there. I love my cold card mark four. They've got the open dimes. I got my block clock micro delivered just the other day. I've of course got my other block clock behind me.

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So check them out, Privacypros.com.com slash BTC sessions. With that, I'm going to stop rambling. I'm going to get everybody in here. So we got Tatum, Jacob, Shane, gentlemen, welcome to the show. Very excited to have you all. I think a round of intros are in order. So I'll just toss it down the line and you can give me a quick, who are you and what do you do? Let's start with Tatum, man. Good to see you. I think you were pulling my leg when I was in New York and you said you were right there ready to hang out. Yeah, I really sorry about that little backstory.

Ben said, hey, who's in New York? And I, for God knows why, reason, said, no way, I'm here. I wasn't. I am in Louisiana and he tagged me. He's like, let's get a meetup. And I guess this is our meetup because it didn't happen in New York. Didn't make it up from Louisiana. That's okay, though.

Absolutely. But yeah, thanks for having me. My name's Tatum. I am a bitcoiner, graduated with a degree in Fiat and still chose Bitcoin. And I have now made it into the mining industry. and I'm also the host of Between 2A6. Sorry, had to plug it. Your new favorite interview show.

But I'm bullish on mining and that's what I wanted to talk about today. But I'm just happy to be here and talk to other bitcoinsers who are still bullish in this time. Dude, I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty excited to see the show. The like clips that you've been dropping here and there have been, they've been giving me some good chuggles. So, and you, I don't know how the stars came to align, but you got some, some pretty recognizable faces right out the gate, which is all. Yeah, I don't know either, but I'm not, not fighting it. And I'm just letting it roll. But we got, we got some, some heat in the chamber. So I'll stay tuned, subscribe on YouTube. But yeah, thanks for having me, man. Yeah, no worries, man. Awesome. Shane, you are up next. You had me on your show recently. and I think it was quite possibly the most epic intro to a show ever.

There was American flags and guns and all kinds of shit. It was great. I have to meet with Bill O'Reilly swearing up in the storm. I was going to ask you beforehand. I forgot if we could swear. And I was like, well, if Bill Riley's here laying it down for a... Oh, yeah. You can say whatever the fuck you want here.

Yeah, man. Welcome. Let people know who you are, what you do. Oh, man. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, I guess. My name is Shane Hazel. I run the podcast, Radical, a look, I guess, more at Austrian econ, libertarianism, and Bitcoin, obviously, as it applies in those spaces. And I'm a bit of a naturalist as well, kind of a hippie, a weird thing for a former Special Operations Marine with a lot of combat experience. And once in a while, I kind of run for office.

I think I'm coming up on my last three weeks and I'm retiring, running for governor down here. in Georgia. And Bitcoin is the basis of the platform. So, yeah, I mean, we got to meet down at Bitcoin 2022 and didn't have enough time on the rooftop at the Swan Party. So I guess we're making up for it here.

But really just absolutely stoked to be hanging out with, you know, Bitcoiners because, you know, you don't want to be the smartest guy in the room. And I guarantee you, like, for me, knuckle dragging, crane eating retard. This is the place for me. Like, I can come in here and I can learn as much as I can, so I appreciate it. Awesome. I'm glad to have you, man. And Jacob, man, I get to see you in

person in like a week here, less than a week. I'm so stoked. Let people know who you are, what you do. Yeah, we're super excited to have you as well. And thank you so much for having me on here. Yeah, so I'm Jacob Parrish. Back in college, I started a web company. So I was a graphic designer in front of web developer. And late, late college, I started diving into politics. religion started paying taxes so i made me question money and uh after that uh around 2011 i was actually introduced to bitcoin from my older brother um we have a bit of a bitcoin family there's four siblings we're all in the bitcoin we got my parents and bitcoin and uh so i'm really grateful for him to introduce me to that in uh in 2013 i moved to uh charlotte north carolina

and started a bitcoin charlotte this is this is our logo and uh we got kind of a rep for the t-shirts in Miami we had a somehow people liked us quite a bit and I think that's where I met maybe Shane briefly but yeah so I've been hosting meetups ever since then pretty consistently especially through like 2017 we had a couple big meetups then we had safety and come on we had Jimmy Song come in and we had some really good turnouts for then and that was a bold old market time for sure after that some life stuff I kept the meet up going, but there was very few meetings for a couple years. And then back in 2020, November 2020, my sister, Liz Parrish, moved to Charlotte. And we had a rejuvenation

of the meetup. And so we want to take it to the next level, have more socials, more meetups here. And last year, we had our first hoddle wean, which was a brainchild of a conversation we had with, it was me and my sister and Bitcoin Began. He's a local here. His birthday was in October, and we started talking about, oh, man, I think my sister actually came up with the name, Hot-Aween. And so we hosted that last year. We had a pretty small event. We had two nights of it. We had pumpkin carving and three speakers the first night. Second night, we had a party at one of the bars down here in Re-Raw. And we had a blast. People dressed as the best Satoshi Nakamoto. And so we got all sorts of crazy. costumes it was it was super fun and to finish this intro my I am knee-deep in

planning this event which is next weekend which Ben is opening for us so I'm really excited to hear his talk because it's one of the two talks I'm gonna hear the whole night because I'm gonna be in the workshops the whole time so I get to hear his opener but a Halloween is a conference we're her running here and oh it's a celebration but there's speakers workshops and then a party and also a a feast, but I can dive in more of that later. That's great. Dude, I'm really looking forward to it.

It's going to be a lot of fun. And I'm excited that my wife's going to make it down with me. So yeah, awesome. Well, everybody watching, if you're unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish? And pretty simple. We go by the three R's here. Somebody's going to drop a reason why they're bullish. Then together, we're all going to riff on that reason.

And then we're going to rotate. So reason riff rotate. That's pretty much the flow of the show. And I am going to get us started this week with my reason for being bullish. And so I do one-on-one sessions online from time to time. If somebody has come across some sort of tutorial and maybe, you know, they need a little bit more handholding than just watching. They want to be able to like interact and ask questions and troubleshoot on the fly like as they're going.

then they might like book me and sit down with an hour or for an hour with me and walk through something. So anyways, the session I was doing earlier, the guy had a keystone wallet. And he was like, hey, I'm working from this, have a few questions and then some other topics. But I figured, well, I better update my keystone to like the latest firmware and everything. So I go online. I update it to and, you know, they've added additional features and everything. And so then I was like, oh, maybe while I'm mad at all, update some of my other hardware to the latest firmware. And so I go and like I had already just updated my cold card like last week, but then they added additional like NFC functionality.

So, you know, now you can tap NFC on your cold car. So I got another update there. And then I was updating my foundation passport because they've updated and now they have like special accounts for like, post mix out of Whirlpool if you're doing coin join and a few other things there and you know update for their multi-sig and all that and then a device I haven't touched in a while but the block stream jade that had another update and you can like scan in QR codes with a little camera on the back and like import different lots of updates there the seed signer also had all these updates they they're like oh you know

now we've got it down to it basically an instance where the firmware on this used to be like, you know, a couple gigs or something like that. Now that it's like a few hundred megabytes and it runs like a breeze and it's just, the whole thing got a lot quicker and again, new features and everything implemented it. Anyways, without rambling too much, I'm very, very excited because of the amount of working and building that is happening, even in the midst of a bear market, which actually, to be honest, this is when most of it happens, right?

But it's just literally everywhere I look, there's just continuous updates happening. On the same front, I'm, you know, I'm updating all my all my stuff. and I'm taking a look at at my node again for the first time in a while. And I hadn't looked at the interface in a while, but holy shit. I just synced it and took a look and there's it's there's so much additional stuff here. They have a full marketplace for apps, like App Store kind of kind of like Umbrole. Um, you know, Um, Um, roll's got its app store where you can, you know, download all these different apps. But, you know, my note is following suit and saying, okay, you can add stuff. You can add additional apps.

You can even, it looks like you can even add. I mean, look at this. There's, there's so many different things you can add. And you can customize application versions. You can do all these different things with it, which just wasn't there the last time I interacted with it. And everything's coming so far so quickly. I'm just excited the fact that with all of this competition, with all of these different, you know, I just held up like six different hardware wallets. And those are just a, you know, a few of the ones that I have. But they're all holding each other's feet to the fire, right? Like there's competition there to bring the most innovation and the most convenient way to interact or the most secure way to interact with your Bitcoin. and it's causing them to continue to iterate and build even more secure environments,

but also make the UI and UX better. And you're saying the same thing with things like Umbrole, you know, comes out the gate with this super easy to interact with interface for running a node and all these Bitcoin applications. And then all these other node applications are like, oh shit, we better make what we're doing a lot prettier and easier to use. And so you see these updates Like my node looks great now

You're seeing like RASPy Blitz Which previously was all command line Now has a web UI like Ui Umbril and My node And same thing with like Ronan Dojo It used to be all Like the command line interface And now it's like oh we've got a nice looking

actual way to interact with it that is it looks and and i've got to say runan dojo's uh the way that they look and i'm going to pull it up here because it's so pretty i have to show it but ronan dojo looks beautiful like they're the aesthetic that they have of their their node set up is pretty badass, I've got to say. But it's just, there's been so much innovation around all of this stuff that, again, like, I've got, you know, all these nodes running and I'm constantly experimenting with all the stuff that it really strikes me how much is being built and how many options people have.

First time I ran a node, it was like, I mean, you can, I've had Bitcoin Core or Bitcoin Q. at the time. But then in terms of like a physical box, I think it was called like the bit seed or something like that. You had to like log in through your your like system admin panel like through your router or something. And like I had no idea how to interact with it. And now it's like, oh, you can get something to plug it into your router and just type in umbrile.

dot local and on your browser and you're right there. So I mean, this is a long, ramly way of just saying, everybody is working so hard to build so many incredible things and we have so many options in this kind of, again, like free market is building on itself and just presenting us with so many great options.

And this is with a fraction of the global population using Bitcoin. Imagine as it grows and more and more people use it, how much more innovation there's going to be around this stuff. It's going to be incredible. So anyways, that's my reason. And I'm going to kind of open it up to you guys, either commentary on things that you've seen in regards to things that are being built and kind of the pace of innovation here or even like i don't know if you have any questions about any of the stuff i was talking about but i'll open it up to anybody who wants to dive in yeah i um i want to say that i share the same

sentiment uh as far as like the building and stuff as far as the hardware devices go i can't speak too much of that because i um i don't use cold storage keep everything on exchange just kidding guys gotcha um no i uh you you you you you Your videos actually were the reason that I wanted to get into the coin kite and you said that you had too much their stuff. I can't stop shopping. But I mean, and also I got a crypto cloaks, a little sleeve for you pay me. At broke, stay rich. Sorry, I think my mom's watching.

But like the building is very evident. and even specifically I look at Umbrell I first built my node with Umbrell I think in January and I wasn't using it all too much

because I didn't feel like I didn't have too many uses for it and as time went on I learned more about it and it was like okay I do have some uses to this now it's like a daily driver because I just looked at, I had to look and see how many applications I have now that I actively like go through and play with is 24 from the umbral store because I just like they have something for literally everything that's, you know, aiming to get as self-sartran as you can. You know, they, they just launched fairly recently like their whole media server,

uh, line up the whole new section that I've been kind of playing around with, um, you know, osa Plex server and I mean just like bear market is the time to build and you can see that the players who are building are building building um because I remember around this time last year we were getting close to the top and everyone in their mother was launching a new coin and new nfti project and this is going to have all this utility and it's like first of all shut up um The second of all, like, where are they now? Like the same people who are dabbling in all these quick, get rich quick schemes are now quiet because that's all it was at the time.

So it's the people who are still building right now who are actually making things, you know, move a little smoother. And I think that as time goes on when we do start getting back on that climb, like you said, as it expands, there are so many people who are way qualified to build on Bitcoin in some level and they just don't know it yet. And I think that there's going to be a natural accumulation of those people that's going to just snowball effect. And this snowball is growing really big. It seems like it's growing relatively slow, but that's just where the market goes.

But I think it's just going to continue to snowball to where the growth is going to be, you know, quicker than we can even. keep track of. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wild to see. And you're right. I think what tends to happen is the people that are building in the bear markets, they obviously

are there for the bull markets. They benefit from them. But the ones that seem to benefit the most during the bull markets are the kind of like shit coiny, I'm going to get rich, like, like flashing. things that get thrown in there.

And so it's like it's very boom and bust for them, right? But the ones that are, you know, they're keeping their head down. They're building. They're working. Those things stick around, right? Those things actually survive the bear markets. And so if you want to actually survive, you have to have something viable that isn't just like some pump and dump bullshit.

It has to be useful and continuously useful through a bare market. for people that stick around. And spoiler alert, Bitcoiners are the ones to stick around through the bear market. We're not, you're not really going to see a bunch of NFT jokers, uh, sticking around when they're,

you know, $600,000 dollar picture of, uh, like a pixelated art picture is now worth 10 bucks. Even though they still can't sell it for 10 bucks, but it's technically, I've got a price tag of that. Um,

you know, I, I think, I think Bitcoin has kind of shifted us to the right mentality of like, you know, low time preference, you know, build for the long term, kind of ignore the volatility of people and their perception of what Bitcoin is valued at and just build it for that longer term when it becomes obvious. So I don't know.

Jacob, did you have anything that you wanted to throw in there? Yeah, I just wanted to say, I think it's great. All these devices, all the different nodes, heat building. We need more and more and more. I mean, if we're going to give this to the world, we need options. We need different ways to express ourselves. And I just think it's awesome.

I didn't see the one on there, though, that is embassy, which is the only one I have. And so I've been very caught up with community and meetups and everything. But after all this, I really hope to dive into some of these and understand it a lot. more. But embassy is one thing that I'm very excited about. They were at one of the conferences I went to recently and they're able to get to, they now allowed developers to develop for their little app store, I guess. So, but yeah, I just more. We need more. This is great. Like, and it's, it's just happening so fast, I can't keep up at all. Like, there was a time in the past where I knew everything that was going on. It's just not even possible now.

I love it. I do have an embassy on the way. So that's going to be a video soon. By December, and this is, I guess, just a function of basically tailoring my everything I do around doing tutorials. By December, there will be seven different nodes running on this shelf. right now there's four right now i've got i've got a raspy blitz an umbral ronan dojo and mineode all sitting there uh the start nine is going to be uh start nine embassy is going to be there

i don't know in the next month or so uh i'm going to be grabbing a noddle down at um pacific bitcoin and then i've got this awesome like metal crypto cloaks uh i think I can't remember the name of it, like the palace or something like that. Anyways, it's an awesome, like, node case. And I've got all of the internals, and I'm just trying to decide what to put on it. I might do, it was a fork of Umbrell. It's the Run Citadel. So I might do that one.

I don't know what else I would put on it, though. I think those are kind of the main ones. But, like, it's insane. The fact that there's, like, seven different, like, OS. Yeah. Builds that I can just run on my, and they'll just, I'll just leave them there because then I can easily jump to each one

whenever there's questions or updates and I can cover them. And then the other node that I'm going to be running is, I got myself a little like a think pad, a laptop. And I've got another thing, like a little nook computer like NUC. Yeah, so I grabbed one of those.

So I'm going to do, I'm going to learn how to just like, make up your own node on on one of those and and run it so i think you i fairly recently i tweeted about uh about trying to do that on like run a node on like stuff that you have laying around and i've actually been very curious about um building a node out on a nook um because i mean everything is kind of built out for raspberry pie convenience but i mean i know you can fairly easily but I want to follow up with you on that because that sounds that sounds exactly like what I want to do as well

yeah it's I mean don't these little nook computers like they were typically used a lot in like office settings right like and then everything went laptop and now there's just not a whole lot of demand for that type of thing right so you can get like I found an I7 nook computer

no computer with like it's only got a 500 gig hard drive in it but I can swap that out and it was like used for 280 Canadian dollars so probably what that's like maybe two just over 200 US I mean it's pretty pretty solid so I'm gonna yeah I'm gonna experiment with that see what I can do with it but like you can technically build it out yourself, but it looks like I'm going to have to get brush up a little bit more on my command line skills and sort through that. I mean, the other option, too, is to just have it as like a regular Linux computer, have Bitcoin core on it, link up things like Spector, Sparrow, and run L&D.

And, I mean, you can do that. Yeah, I don't know. I'll have to look into it. but I'll let you know it was was running bitcoin core is you know any computer you have laying around any you can run bitcoin core and you're at node yeah right yeah it's people forget how accessible it is like you don't you don't have to have specialized hardware you can just download bitcoin core and then there's so many great wallets that you can just download and say connect to my bitcoin core node that's on this machine and for i think i had i had some trouble whenever

I was actually trying to do that, and that's where I kind of ran into the trouble, except because I downloaded Specter on my PC and was trying to, I had trouble connecting my hardware device, getting it to recognize a hardware device. But it was also, I found the path to my core, on my local network that was running on my pie. And so I tried plugging it into my pie. I tried plugging it into my PC and couldn't really get it. But I think Spector since has updated to where it's a little more streamlined now.

So I kind of want to play around with it. I need to brush up on my command lines as well, too. Yeah. Yeah, I'm learning. Shane, I don't know. What are your thoughts on how things are going? What's being built out? What have, you know?

I have a bit of an admission. I haven't started running a node yet, right? So I came into Bitcoin, I think late 2019. And when I started talking about nodes and, it just is one of those things that kind of terrified me at first. I am not an IT guy, right? I come from things from more of a cultural side. I look at, you know, the way things interact.

And so I think that space is one of those things where people in the Bitcoin community have been very inviting. They're like, hey, man, you can do this no matter what on any computer that you have. And when you're ready, let me know and I'll show you. And I think between that, just the opening of this community in terms of having, there it goes. I told you it would do it, right? When we have this community that has just such, I don't know, prolific backgrounds that are all coming together in this space and they're extremely helpful. I don't know you got to watch out for, you know, the jackasses out there that will try to,

you know, run schemes and all that kind of stuff. But for the most part, once you find your people, those people take care of you and they are absolutely like a hundred. They're, they're so, excited to help you figure out what's going to be best for you. Like, give you those training wheels, give you that first push, you know, and get you, get you up and running. And so I think one of the things I'm excited about because of all this tech, like I've found obviously cold wallets and, you know, some hot wallets and all that fun stuff that I really like that you can treat as active savings accounts, checking, you know, basically so you can kind of move around out there in lightning or even on chain. And for a guy that, you know, didn't want to, you know, really take a

chance with this Bitcoin because I'll tell you right now like I've lost some Bitcoin in the very beginning and it I mean it hurt so um to see this passion and I think this is probably also important is you have a entire environment now this this this this you know that's very complex environment where we were where I was saying you know you've got people that come from tech you've got people that come from energy backgrounds you've got people that come you know from I don't don't know, software, firmware, you've got people that used to be investors, like this giant background. And what you have in this space is different from a lot of other spaces where people go to their nine to five job or their career where they spend tons and tons of hours away from

their home, away from their family and everything else. And they hate, you know, their, they're, you know, Monday through Friday, whereas this community, it's producing even in the bear market because of passion, right? And this, this is really exciting because when you, you have the brains first and foremost that exists here and the energy that's behind those brains that now has a passion behind it that's just going to work itself to death right like you're going to have this community that just that got in when they were like I don't know five into bitcoin because they had parents like me that homeschool and now they're just like totally consumed and they're they're just like whatever it is that is their passion they're just boom like a laser beam focused

and they've got all these other little laser beams like helping them out. This is what is going to drive us, you know, like in the fact that we're seeing it now in a bull market where we, you know, obviously come way down from, you know, quote unquote historic highs against fiat bullshit. We're going to see this this take off because as we do more and more and more and more and more and this passion feeds technology and more and more comes from the bear market. when times are good and these people have done well and that bitcoin you know obviously is a deflationary asset is now in the hands of people that did well in the bear markets and they're going into the bull markets oh man you want to talk about just the rocket ride to buckle up and get ready because this is going to bleed into other populations as it surges and it's going to be like that I don't know. I talk about things sometimes from a military perspective. And obviously,

Tatum, you understand that with your bullproof best, right? He's wearing that vest because when things go through, you know, like a projectile, they tend to have this, you know, kinetic energy. And they, on the outside, they pull, right? They're pulling. And that vacuum space is pulled into it. That's what Bitcoin's going to do to the community that's in the, I don't know, kind of in the wings looking at it going, huh, I wonder what the stuff is. And as that stuff starts to pull on the back side of it, it's like a hyperbolic round. It is going to just, I hate to use the word suck, but it's going to suck everything and everybody in the technology and the different brain power trusted that are out there into the space. And it's going to be extremely well funded in the right hands with the

people that have, you know, the right time preference and have really dead. dedicated themselves and they start to see fruition. I don't think they're going to stop. I don't think they're going to get comfortable. This is just one of those rides where you want to see it through to perpetuity and as far as you can, right? Like none of us are going to make it 2140, but I sure wish, you know, some of us could, right?

Like that's, I think that's why I'm so bullish because even guys like me have found homes here and not so much in the, you know, the tech side, but the tech side has just been so inviting to be like, look, dude, whatever you need to learn, like we're going to guide you in here at whatever basic level you need and then we're going to grow you. And I think that is absolutely the sign of not only a great community, but a leadership type community that you don't find in a lot of places in this time in place for sure. That's awesome. You just mentioned 2140. How cool would it be to be around to see that last block, that last one set block.

reward get printed i i would just just to be in that moment would be really unique um and it's and it's interesting because like nobody truly understood the implications of of the first bitcoin block right like it was it was it was it was such a long shot that anything would work out that like nobody could truly appreciate what was going on there um and i mean there there will be milestones but like I think and I hope that when that does tick over and that last block, I think humanity as a whole will understand and truly appreciate the implications of what has been built. And I see that last block reward, that last one sat block reward as being like a celebration of human innovation and like a free. from the the the the the the shackles of fiat um and what it brought upon humanity and and the

i i guess dissolution of nihilism that it brought the disillusion of of of um you know short-term thinking and and wealth uh you know wealth erosion i i i I imagine being in that moment, a hundred and, you know, 120 years in the future, that it's going to be, while not having much implication in terms of economics at that point,

because the block reward will be largely meaningless at that point, it'll still mark like a, wow, a hundred and, you know, 130 years to get to this point, look at all that's changed since this thing was invented, and how little people understood it in that first decade, two decades.

That'll be an incredible moment, and I wish I could be there to see it. I never really gave too much thought about that block, but like there is like a final subsidy block that's going to happen. And there's a lot to think about like what is that sat going to be worth? What is that final sat going to be worth at that point in time? I'm like, man, I don't know. That would be, I mean, what I'm trying to think what the, I wonder in our lifetimes, I mean, I'd have to pull it up, but like how low the block reward will be in my lifetime. Like if I'm in my, you know, 80s or something like that, just looking at the average lifespan, will the block reward be at that? There's a, there's a graph.

It was an artist. I actually saw him at, um, the Miami conference, but he made like this wood burned kind of, it looks like a clock almost. And it had like the block height, the year, the block subsidy of every having and stuff. And so if I can find that, I'll send it to you because it basically shows you like what rewards are going to be when. It might be on the, um, on on on the bidbow. Yeah, it's one of the most beautiful pieces of carpentry you've ever seen to, right? And another thing that we talk about in this space is, you know, as this passion kind of holds on to people, right?

Whatever it is that they're doing, you're going to see, like, the real art return. And to complement the technology. And that piece, that wouldn't, you know, calendar, call Lee, I stopped and talk to him as well. And I was just like, this is incredible what you've done here. And he's like, well, you know, it just really just did, you know, this stuff with a CN. and you know, Woodburner and I was like, you just like you just did this. I couldn't stop looking at it. There was so much to digest.

Yeah. Hard to take in really a masterful piece of engineering and art all in the same. And I guess it's kind of one in the same as you look through the space. But yeah, you're, you're, I saw some of the comments down there and, you know, like, oh, you know, the 2140 is going to be so commonplace that nobody's going to think anything. I don't, I don't think. that for a second. I think there's going to be giant parties. It may be more of an independence day around the world at that point. I have, I got to think that. I mean, maybe some people will take it for granted and all that fun stuff. Like a lot of, you know, people do today with any type of, you know,

freedom or right. Not that there's a ton of it running around, but there's obviously a birth of a renaissance here that I think we're seeing that obviously, Ben, that you kind of allude to there. I'll take an approach on that with I never actually thought about when 2040 when that happens but maybe it's going to be like a 1999 thing where it's like oh no we didn't program for 3,000 everything's getting like just break the whole world yeah it's funny because I mean at at least with this one there's you'll you'll basically see the you know the At one point, the transaction fees will eclipse the block subsidy, and it'll just be like a gradual replacement.

And so long before, it will just kind of slowly begin shifting that way. I was just looking in, and so by, I was just looking at the future halvings. And it'll, it'll officially, the, so 20, 40, So another 22 years here. I'll be, I'll be, you know, getting close to 60 at that point,

something like that. So when I'm 60, the block reward will drop below, will drop below 10 million stats. So it'll be like 90, you know, 97 million stats or something like that. or sorry, 9.7 million sats per for the block reward.

So I mean, by the time I'm 80 or so, that'll be, you know, in the tens of thousands of sats. Yeah, it's, it'll be, it'll be weird having, seeing block rewards being like 10,000 sats. And at that time, too, that is what we say at the meetups a lot is, um, or we're like to say, is around 20, around 2040, about 98%, 99% of Bitcoin's released. So I kind of like to say that because I, you know, 2140 is the end. But the kind of the end is coming up in our lifetime where this is all going to be released.

Yeah. In our lifetime. So get it now. Like we're in a really sweet spot. Here's a lot to newcomers and like there's only 21 million. So here's the dates. So 95% will be in 2026. 99% will be in 2035.

And 99.9.9% will be in 2048. Wow. I didn't even realize it was that much. Wow. Yeah. The last 0.1% takes like just under 100 years. I've always thought that it was the craziest thing. like whenever we passed 19 million, fairly recently I want to say it all meshes together at this point. But in 13 years, we got 19 million Bitcoin and there's only 2 million left, but we're going to be dead before we get to those 2 million. And it's just like, that's insane.

I go back to, you know, look at some of Satoshi's, some of his post and emails and stuff that were shared around. Like, the forward thinking was beyond comprehension. He gave everything a thought, including one of my favorites is, you know, he was talking about mining with, is not wasted energy if you're using it. for heating your house or something like that. And like you didn't need to, you weren't heating the house with whatever they were mining with back in 2010. But I mean, now given it at this point in time, 13 years later, haven't heard from him in what, 10, 11 years or something like that.

People are heating hot tubs with miners. So what else is going to be uncovered by him that we're seeing was just way ahead of its time? Just something to think about. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of which, I just got a, I just got an S-9. That's going to be my space heater from my office.

Totally not profitable. But, hey, I'll be making some stats while heat in the office. Exactly. Good thing, dude, in Canada. To your point earlier there, Ben, with the, you know, 10,000 stats and what? Was 244 that you said? As 2044, it drops below, it drops below 10 million sats per block.

Yeah. And so I think it would be closer to, oh, that'd be, I don't even know, but, yeah, so it'll be like 9.7 million sats per block reward. It just makes you, I guess even, I don't know, more low time preference, right? When you look at it that way and you start to go, oh, my gosh, 2044 is not that far away. And maybe it is for some other people that are a lot younger in the space. But like 20 years, man, boom, just goes so fast. I'm looking at, you know, 10 million sats.

And you're just like, well, man, today it might not seem like a ton. But, I mean, we're talking in 20 years from now. I mean, 10 million sats. And oh, man, you get stingy. You know what I mean? Don't keep that. 10 million stats. block reward right now, 6.25, 6.25 Bitcoin every 10 minutes, and look how much competition there is to get that.

I'm imagining that the competition is probably going to go up between now and then, vying for 10 million sats. That's pretty wild. And so the value, the purchasing power of 10 million sats by then. is yeah i mean i mean it makes you rethink i mean if you're looking at you know um you're coin kite or fold or you know maybe even listening to like fountain where you're just racking up sats you know whether whether you're traveling listening whatever it is it's just like man every one of those is going to count in a very near future yeah yeah i i think about that all the time it's like i i love fold um to use the taiton turn up link if you want to get 5,000 free shots

But, like, sometimes I'll get just a terrible spin and just have bad luck. And I just got 200 sats on like $100 purchase. I'm just like pissed off. But then I'm like, I'm not trying to like sell this or anything. Like this is, there's no telling what that 200 sats is going to be way on down the line. And then I've also, you know, gotten, I've had some lucky spins that are 50,000 sets. and it's just the amount i think in total i've just passed um i think one and a half million sets since i've been using it it's like that's insanity of depending on your time preferences

mine is below the floor like i'm i'm rich and that's that's where that's where my head's at and it's just something really cool to think about over the course of your entire lifetime all of your purchases that you will have ever made with that card if you hold on to those sats will likely in turn be free oh you be you're going to essentially be getting paid if you look at it in the future to pay with that card yeah yeah yeah it's pretty wild okay i i don't i i feel like my my topic took up a considerable amount of time here so i apologize for that but it was a good i didn't want to like derail a conversation it felt pretty good. But we're going to do a little rotation here. And Tatum, actually, I'm going to go to you now,

and I'm going to ask you why you are bullish. What's top of mind? What are you excited about this week? I am bullish on it. Whenever Ben was asking me about this, he was like, just pick a topic that you're bullish on. I'm like, well, crap, I got to pick one. But the main thing that I'm I'm bullish on is the is mining altogether for various reasons and every day is just a little more bullish for you know how much I learn what what new things are being built in in the mining space how are people you know using their miners on top like what's the secondary use that they're getting from I saw someone make freaking beef jerky with an S9 I was like who would have thought And it was fun things like that.

And then like crypto cloaks is consistently coming out with like new shrouds and stuff to to fit different models to include PSUs. And I'm just like Uber bullish on on it, especially now because the AIC market is dynamic with the price of Bitcoin, obviously. you know, whenever Bitcoin was at $65,000, people were wanting to get the top of the line minors at the time for, you know, they were S19J pros, about 100 terra hash were going for around 10,000, something around there. And those same ones are about two, two thousand or I'd say roughly around like $2,000 to $3,000 today. and the big the big thing that you have to do the the catalyst to understanding mining is looking at it from your personal goals and your personal viewpoints and not letting other people tell you like oh don't get that because of this this this don't get that ace it because of this this this don't run that firmware like what do you want a lot of people who got these miners at the top and spent boo-coodles of money where they're essentially relatively speaking worthless now than what they bought them at bought them as money printers and i mean look no one really got into mining not thinking that it was just money printing um because you know up that up that ramp it it really was like you were you

were profiting really well whenever you realize how the market works and what this machine is actually doing, that's when your conviction kind of changes. I got into mining on the come down of prices. It wasn't like where it is right now. And I essentially started getting really upset. Like, oh, crap, these prices are dropping. I didn't have a minor at the time. So I was like, why am I upset? I just think like the industry is crashing. But now I'm like, please, for the love of God, I would love for the prices to drop even more so I can just get as much hash rate as I because one thing that I always see on all these websites that analyze minors is profitability. And the thing about profitability is it's personal to you, it's personal to your goals.

Ben, you said that S-9s are non-profitable and, you know, in the major sense, they're not. However, in my terms, they break even once I hit my first. and I get my first set from running that minor. And it's a matter of like, are you only going to run it if you can break even? Are you going to stack this generational wealth, depending on your time preference, and your power calls given they're not just through the absolute roof? But where, you know, some S-9's on Brainspool, every block that they hit around like 700, 700 SAT, something like that.

That's nothing. But in a period of time, that's going to be a ton. And you're also running it for the option of KYC free Bitcoin. It's also just a faucet. You have fold in other Bitcoin rewards programs, fountain that you have to do something to get that reward with a minor. I mean, you are doing something, considering proof of work, but it's something that you can plug in.

And essentially, in a pretty light sense, you just leaves it and it's just a faucet dripping into a wallet. And I think that that is the biggest thing that makes me bullish about it is the how it's changed my conviction altogether. And it all circles around the finite supply to the point where I have a tattoo of the finance supply formula on my arm. because like in 2140 like we were just talking about they're going to be fighting tooth and nail who knows how big how high the hash rate is going to be at that time for one set for four years and i'm getting 740 780 like every now and then i think yesterday i got like 16,000 sats just because i was running ns nine um so it's just all circled circles back to that. That was a little rant, but that's where I met with. And also the

advancements of the machines that are coming out, the next gen's, I mean, 100, I was freaking out whenever the XP's were announced, the 8-Miner XP's were announced for 140 tarahash. I was like, oh, crap, this is a huge jump. Like, this is going to be crazy. The hydro models that, what's minor is releasing, like 250 tarahash? And that's exciting. I want one really bad, but it's, I can't find like an exact price because they're obviously very bulk order right now. And I think they just released like a couple months ago.

But I think it's floating around like $15,000. Holy much. Yeah. It's crazy though, because I was looking earlier at the near the beginning of the year at miners, just starting to dabble around. But yeah, like even not even near the beginning of the year. like in, you know, March or something. And the S-19s were, they were like 10 grand.

Yeah, there was, I, I remember seeing one listing. I think it was November last year because I took a screenshot of it. That was when I started, like, dabbling into it. And I was like, I need to keep this for reference, just, you know, because I think this is a pretty good base price, $14,000. And I wouldn't think to buy an S-19 for, $14,000 now. Yeah. So, and then, like, I'm looking even just, okay, so I'm, I'm just looking at the Kabumrax

telegram right now. I just got a notification too. Yeah. And so, but I'm looking at, like, some of these and, and like the same, like, S19J pros, like 100 terra hash. Some of them are, like, used, good condition like two grand two grand for an s 19 um for a hundred tarahash like and and again i was looking at those they were up up near 10 like this year at you know six months ago it's amazing how quick it changes yeah yeah it's it's wild but the the crazy thing is like watching everything this past year it was really interesting the dive dynamic that happened when everything got shut down and all the sudden everybody thought that s-9s were near the end of their life cycle and then they had this second wind and all the sudden

s-nines were profitable again but would that have been the case if everything didn't if everything didn't shut down do you think it you know never really thought about it because i mean whenever the china ban happened that was um that was before well before i was kind of of into mining. But I never really thought about that, but I don't think, like, I, the hash rate recovered extremely fast. But I think that it would have still been, I honestly think we might be, I don't think we would be too much higher right now if anything happened, if it didn't happen.

I think we'd be close to the same hash rate right now, which I don't know where we're at right now. I think we're floating around like 220. Is that right? I'm looking at BIPBO and it says 276. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, because obviously the, I mean, that's why we got a 13% difficulty. But, geez, I did not think we were that high hash rate. But I really think we would be still right around where we are because that dip was insanely quick. If you look at it on a completely full scale, it essentially just looked like someone like who just poked it and it came right back back up because Bitcoiners are their brains are built different and they knew exactly

what to do and how to react. Was it scary? Absolutely. But now we are consistently hitting all-time highs again like right before. And it took, I think. maybe two months. I want to say last, if I think, if I remember correctly, the scale that I was looking at, I think it took two months for it to hit another all-time high after it just like was slashed. But yeah, I don't know. Also, the thing about can something like that happen again? Absolutely. Will the impact be larger? Absolutely. Because at the time, you know, I think the, I think the kind of average hash rate per machine was maybe around like we're kind of skirting the 100 tarahash kind of consumer market. Now we're going it.

We just said we're going into the 250 tarash machine consumer. It's not consumer market yet. But there's going to be, if that does happen, there's going to be a larger impact. But I do not doubt that it's going to be an even quicker rise back up. Yeah. Damn. That's going to be wild. I don't know. Shane or Jacob, did you want to jump in with comments, questions, and around the mining space?

Yeah, I can say something real quick. I just, I'm not, I don't follow mining very closely at all. My brother actually mines in a near Charleston, South Carolina. And me and him were able to do a private tour when we were in Texas of a massive immersion cooling. And, you know, I'm with these. people a lot with the meetups talking about things and it's even for me it's very surreal to go oh this internet magic money is now like this is it like and it's massive like tubs and tubs of these of these uh the top miners in the world just lined up you know football fields long and it's very real so anyone that's hearing this

and that is not um into bitcoin yet or think that's like kind of in this in the cloud or that this isn't connected to the real world. It very much is. And I know it's kind of a tangent a little bit, but man, it's exciting to see stuff like that and how much money is being put into it. And when we were talking to the guy there, he, the people he was trying to get parts from,

he couldn't even get, they didn't understand why he would ask for so many things. This is for Bitcoin, but why are you doing this? He had massive orders of all these, you know, the cooling systems, systems and the pipes that they're running in this thing. And it's just like, it's just really surreal, especially when you've been around for a while. It's like, oh, my gosh, there is massive buildings out here, just, you know, server farms just for this network.

Yeah, that's not bullish. I don't know what it is. Yeah, the one thing to speak on what you said about how, like, if you don't think it's real, like, it is. The coolest thing to me, it kind of, it was almost kind of scary. Terra hash is like the common term when you're talking about hash rate now, except when you get into global hash rate using X a hash. But like per machine, tarahash. When you break down how many hashes a terra hash is and then how many hash is an X a hash is

and put all the zeros out there, you realize just how freaking many miners are going between these XP's that are just like, churning out 140 terra-tahshash at a second down to some people who are still running USB miners just for fun just in case i mean it's all completely random where they're doing a couple giga hash but drawing out the entire numbers of the that scale will blow your mind and if you don't if you don't know if you go to mimble dot space slash mining i think back in april they they released their mining dashboard and it's one of the best sources of just like general information about the mining industry the different pools hash rate difficulty yeah there you go and they just have so much so much good

information to help you visualize mining as a whole yeah it's got it's got the hash right here at 282 x a hash yeah and to your point on that that number right if we're looking at at a scale. We're not, obviously not looking linear. We're looking at this exponential climb when you talk about the difference in your rate of hash. Right. So if you're, you know, there's a great chart out there somewhere where it talks about like time in seconds versus, you know, millions, billions and trillions. And, you know, if you're in the millions, you're talking about 13 years. If you're looking, I think is it, is it billion? No, I'm sorry, a couple months, three months or something like that in millions of seconds. And then in billions of seconds, you're all the way up to 13 years.

And at trillions of seconds, you're already up over 30 years. And so if you start to look at that in terms of the amount of hash rate, the amount of power and what's being done in those calculations, I mean, it's absurd. I think to your point earlier, too, Jacob, you know, and Ben is when you guys were talking about, you know, as we came into 2020 and things kind of got nuts, right? I think a lot of people in the space knew that this was an economic meltdown that was starting to happen after Brexit in late 2019. And COVID was kind of, you know, this on top of it, uh, excuse to kind of keep people home and all that kind of stuff. I'm not saying it wasn't bad and terrible and killed a lot of people. Like I'm not saying that, but at the same time, when you start to understand that this

Keynesian cycle, it was inevitable. When we see what Fiat does to the world and how it's going to die, we're going to continue to see these absolute madmen go out of their way to do terrible things to disrupt the economy, disrupt our lives. And so, you know, wink, wink, nudge to everybody that's out there. This is going to continue to happen. I mean, we've got some crazy brinkmanship that's going on in Europe, some of the South Pacific. We've got new silicone factory, chip factories and stuff like that coming online here in the United States over the next couple of years. But this turmoil, you know, if you think you're going to get rid of some of your old processing power, you may think again because some of that might come in real, real handy here in the very near future as this thing continues, the Fiat system continues to come unglued because I don't think these guys. are done with their games and if you've got a stockpile of you know this this material laying around for people that are like you guys coming in and getting very very convicted in bitcoin you've got

you've got another way to make some more sats and i think that's uh i think that's the lesson out of 2020 2020 2021 is you know the supply chain and the fiat games aren't over uh and that means that that anybody that's holding hardware that can do some hash, you've got a mountain of stats sitting there just waiting to be sold. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And does anybody want to throw in any more comments in and around the mine? I'm just going to kind of go on a tangent a little bit here. I'm very excited because I've got a What's Miner M30 Plus and a black box coming.

So Steve Barber lives not far from me like 10 minutes away. So I grabbed one from him and he's bringing it down from like Lloyd Minster or something to Calgary. But anyway, so I'll be I'll be doing some videos in and around that. And then I'm also, again, with the little S9 that I've got here, I think I'm going to put it outside and then take some crypto cloaks mining pants and vent it into my office. I actually have the, I got a shroud that it's not ducted right now, but I've been working on getting like, I want to do an attachment for my window just to put some, some ducts from the two into and put like a little vent on it. Because I mean, it's, it's a singular S-9. It's not, you know, going to be big crazy operation just to get the heat out. But then, oh, wait, I'm cold now.

Let me just take that hose back in and heat. Yeah, yeah, exactly. If I, if I, I feel like I'll be that much warmer when I realize my heat is being generated by hatching on the Bitcoin network. It just make me warm and toasty and. Oh, wait, you're a little, you're still a little cold. Go get some more miners. Hey, look, more hash rate, you know. Yeah, exactly.

Awesome. All right. Well, let's, let's do a rotation here. We're going to toss it down. down to Shane. And dude, I'll just ask you, why are you bullish? What's what's on your mind? So I, like I said, I like to look at a lot of cultural things, economic things in the way the world works. And a while back, Elon Musk had been talking about the world's population, decreasing being a giant problem for humanity, right? Like, this is a giant problem because

the less brains, the less passion you have working on things like Bitcoin. to help, you know, really free the world and do some major things. I think the harder, you know, we all have to work. And obviously it puts us a little bit more behind a power curve. This past week, I think it was Jimmy Song that came out with a really great article where this idea has invaded and come into the Bitcoin space now, where he talks about the depopulation rate. And what I like to take from that in terms of perspective is a lot of also anti-fragility.

And I say this because when this space is, you know, changing faster and leading the world into a better culture, it's leading the world into a better understanding of time preference, which obviously just trickle down, whatever they're doing. as a homesteader and as a guy that has a generational family out here for this space to be embracing that and in taking that understanding that, hey, listen, we're going to need kids that are, you know, that are growing our society that, you know, outproduced, you know, just me and my wife. So, you know, if you've got two, three, four, five kids, you're looking at this as also anti-fragility for this community. If this community is reproducing faster than a lot of the other communities, and this is now a value, what you're talking about is making a very hard, a very resilient,

a very independent type of people. And it's not that you are all consolidated in one place, right? You know, obviously there's some great things going on in El Salvador, obviously Charlotte's got their share up there. But in reality, what you're doing is you're spreading an infection. among a fiat population that's looking for hope, that's looking for a understanding of how to beat the rat race of the shit coin casinos that are out there. And so when we've got, you know, guys like Jimmy Song in this space that are just giant audiences

and presence that are talking about this and you've got the, the Bitcoin homesteading communities that are growing and flourishing and teaching people how simple it is to be very anti-fragile in the space. And at the same time, you know, the homeschooling communities here, this is what gets me super bullish because now what we've got is not only a passionate people, but we've got people that are getting harder over time in terms of independence. And for me, I know we're already at an hour or 10. I'm going to keep this as a little shorter because I had some other points, but I want to bring up this, for me, this wealth of passion and knowledge and resiliency and independence is that infection of hope that people need.

Like this is what people are looking for in this crazy-ass time right now. And I don't know, for me, if we've got, you know, more and more people coming into the space and they're looking at this culture as a beacon, you know, what, you know, I think, you know, back in the day Ronald Reagan talked about a shining city on the hill. We were not the example. and we have not been the example, obviously, and leaving people alone and not taking their stuff and not hurting people. But this culture will be exactly that because none of it pays off.

None of that nonsense from the Fiat system where you go out and use force and coercion through the state and that incentive. None of that pays off anymore in this culture. And this culture, I'm telling you, this is what gives me such driving hope. and arts catching up to it. Technology is obviously pushing it. And I don't know. I see it and I just,

I get so excited about how this culture is giving their time and their love and their technology and their independence to others at a gift, an open source gift. Here you go. We'll even wrap it up in a hug when we see it, you know, these conventions, whether it's, you know, Hot-Oween or, you know, BB or whatever it's going to be. But that's to me, I mean, obviously, that's, that's kind of where my heart is at and why I'm super, super bullish on where Bitcoin is going, especially, you know, when we've been, I don't know, hovering around that 20,000, 19,000 mark for as long as we have. Like, this is amazing.

Yeah. It's, I like your point in and around the depopulation. Because that kind of ties in with the Fiat mentality, right? Like, when it was. when you could have a family and you would have a you could have a single breadwinner that goes out and works and somebody at home like raising the children and like you you weren't as worried about affording a home or a vehicle and being able to pay for you know of a large family then that was kind of the norm there is you know there's lots of people like my my parents age or or grandparents age where they were one of many, many siblings. And now families are a lot smaller because people are looking oh Jesus, I can't even afford

a house, I can't afford both people have to be working full time just to afford living, let alone having a kid and then they need to pay to put that kid in daycare. And like it's just

the Fiat system causes this fiat mentality, which causes this fiat depopulation, which further exacerbates fiat land. This is this, it's, and it's just this, this, this self-fulfilling prophecy. It keeps on snowballing and then get into a system where, oh, like the, the fruits of your labor are stored in a mechanism that actually stores it. like in terms of the percentage of that monetary base remains constant over time.

It's not being diluted. Yes, there's volatility around what the world at large that doesn't understand Bitcoin values Bitcoin at. But you're still, you have a static percentage of the entire monetary base based on the contractual agreement you've had with an individual giving your goods or services to them in exchange for that Bitcoin. And that as it kind of extrapolates out, well then all of a sudden, hey, I've got X percent in this mechanism of storing my fruits and labor. All of a sudden, things are priced more appropriately in that people aren't looking for places to store their wealth, thus driving up the cost of homes and other assets. so it's more easy to obtain those things. And then you can more accurately or more easily have maybe one person doesn't need to work

and you can have a single breadwinner yet again. Maybe all of a sudden it's not so scary to have five children because it's, you know, you can afford it because the value you're giving to society is not siphoned away from you. And so I look forward to seeing those shifts as as Bitcoin becomes more of a mainstay of society. But I don't know, Jacob, what are your thoughts on this going to? I mean, you're organizing an event that is in the midst of this kind of culture. So what are your feelings here? Shane, Shane teed me right up here.

Like, basically what he said he's bullshit about is where I was going to lead to. without getting into that, the way Bitcoin changes. What I get really excited about is all the things, Bitcoin is not really the thing that excites me. It's all the things that are coming after. And that's why I got to it in the first place. It was this indirect way to see everything that I wanted to see in the world happen. So better education models like homeschooling, unschooling type ideas.

You know, parenting, peaceful parenting, ideas around that, homesteading, which I'm extremely interested about. So I feel like I need to talk to Shane later about that and get some tips. There's people communities here in Charlotte that are trying to do that as well. And Bitcoin falls right in line with it. You know, better food choices, political stuff like that. So, yeah, my kind of story, I was getting more of my personal journey recently and community about how that leads to these things. But the punchline is that this is the excited, bullish part.

that I'm really here for is are these things, especially like non-aggression principle type ideas as far as, you know, political stances and just dealing with your neighbors. And then privacy. I imagine this type of like glowing box in the future that we have. That's like your power, all your private communication, your financial system, and everyone just connected to each other, and we're all like helping each other out and decentralized. Like that's Web3. to me. And so like these embassies, the things you showed up in the beginning, and they're so exciting to me. So, yeah, so without getting too far into some of my story, yeah, dude, I'm right with you on that. That stuff is the reason I'm here. Awesome. I'll jump to

Tatum here, ask him his thoughts, and then maybe we'll dive into. Oh, yeah, I don't want to take up too much time, but I mean, that is something that I've, I've been very recently, actually, I've realized how much my reason for Bitcoin, like why Bitcoin has changed since I got into it. I got into it because number go up. Awesome. And now I'm utilizing it to look at where I'm at on a privacy level. I've been playing around with a bunch of different. you know, it's kind of scary once you learn how much surveillance is on you via whatever it may be,

even just like your Twitter account even. So I've been trying to formulate kind of using Tor more normally to kind of play around with that. I'm looking at different services for their alternates for big data that that takes my stuff. And I would have never cared about this if it wasn't for Bitcoin. But Bitcoin has changed, changed how I look at politics, at the sovereignty, at relationships, just interpersonal. It changes everything. So that's all I got to say. I agree wholeheartedly with what you'll say.

Yeah, that's great. It does take you down a lot of different rabbit holes, like the privacy aspect, everything. Yeah, absolutely. So, well, let's, I mean, given that Shane's reason kind of played so well into Jacobs. Jacob, I'm just going to let you take it. Let's just segue right into yours and kind of blend them. Yeah, so it's a little bit of a personal story with, which leads to what I just said, but basically building during the fair market, but more regards to the community, I've been in this space a long time, and I kind of kept to myself and lurched, especially during the Reddit days, our Bitcoin.

Love that place. It was so fun to look at and read. And I basically was that guy in my soccer team and my close social circle that was just bringing this up all the time. But beyond that, I never really got involved. I built some stuff with my web company regarding Bitcoin, and I talked a lot with my social circle. But other than that, I didn't really get involved until

2021 and I decided to go to a conference. The whole time before that, I just, I always thought conferences equal blockchain and suits. Like, there's no way I'm going to these. This is not me. I don't want to be there. And finally, 2021, and shout out these guys behind me, they, you know, the governor was, was happy with it. I was going to be in Miami. I was like, dude, this would be fun. Let's go have a party. And it was huge for me. Like, connected you, I immediately connected with people that were had the same ideas around, you know, these things beyond Bitcoin as well, all these freedom ideas and all these, everything I mentioned before. So that really got me going.

And then I, so I went to BitBlock, boom, and I went to Tab Conference as well. And so in Miami prompted me to write this article about freedom and stuff, which is nothing big, but it was that impactful for me. Like I felt like I needed to say something about it. And this year came along, and I've had a hell of a journey this year. I went to El Salvador twice, and Bitcoiners are coming there from everywhere. We didn't set out to meet any particular person. I did have a connection with Jimmy's song from our meetup, so I messaged him, but it wouldn't have mattered.

We went to Hope House. He was there having a meeting. I ended up getting to talk to Max Kaiser, and then I met all sorts of random plebs. Along the beach, I'd apply to Bitcoin. and, or Elzante. And it was just great. We met this one guy who had brought his whole family there and they were investigating whether they should move there or not.

He was from Germany. Locals, the guys from, I think they were in Dallas, but this whole family, they were El Salvadoran and they were thinking about coming back because of the changes that had made. And they have all sorts of, I figure what they're growing at tobacco or something up in the mountains. But then that led into Bitcoin Miami, which we brought, you know, more community. We had a big crew.

come down from Charlotte, which was awesome. And they had a music festival. They had a Bitcoin music festival this next year. I mean, just that was, so I love music. I love going to shows. And the Sound Money Festival, I don't know if you guys were there, but it was really surreal. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of Steve Aoki, but he was on a Satoshi stage.

And I was like, look what Satoshi. Look what you did, man. Like, we got one of the top DJs in the world. with all these weirdos that like Bitcoin. And so this just kind of comes back in the community. And I went to Bit Block Boom. And this is when I had a lot of conferences recently with Bit Block Boom, you know, Start 9, crowd health.

They're actually one of the sponsors for our event. And they're doing decentralized health care. And then another conference, Black Bitcoin billionaire. and then the one that I want to lead or end with here is the Nashville grassroots, which brought all the organizers from all over the nation to one spot. This is so decentralized of a thing. Like this is happening everywhere in the world. There's little groups popping up, and they're all talking about this.

And it's really exciting. And they're talking about this. Bitcoin brought them there. number go up most likely but now they're here and staying these guys are passionate like they traveled from all of the nation to get to to uh national which by the way is awesome a bitcoin park if you haven't been there is is awesome they have two side by side buildings which are two stories apiece they're really really uh well done there's courtyards around it and uh so i got to meet all these organizers and bounce ideas off each other and but mainly it was just cool just hanging out with people

doing the same stuff that i was doing and uh but yeah so all that that just to say that communities here, man, and building during the, oh, I've never built. I never really started building into this. I'm proud of myself and I finally doing this. I feel like I'm a part of this. And I just encourage everybody else to do it because it feels really good. And some of these guys, like this guy in Michigan who created a lake in his yard. He calls it a Satoshi Lake now.

He also bought a bank vault and host meetings there. Kansas City guys are hosting block parties up there, Kansas City block party. And that's just to mention a few of what people are doing all over the place. And it's just really exciting. But yeah, these people are meeting and that will eventually lead them to the changes that Shane mentioned. You know, especially with having more kids and not being scared to do that. It always drives me nuts when I feel like people don't have a valid reason for that. But there is a valid reason because their money sucks.

But yeah, that's basically my bullish guys. I love that. There's so much, again, like, I've got to echo the community sentiment. Like, it's crazy that now, like any Bitcoiner could, likely go anywhere on earth and say, hey, where's the Bitcoiners at? And they would find someone that would just go and hang out with them, go grab a beer, go hang out, go grab a coffee, whatever. Like anywhere on earth, you could go and you'd have at least somebody to go meet up with

and to go hang out with. And that's pretty unprecedented. Like that's a pretty unique thing. Like, I mean, every, I think every city, every place I've been to, it's so easy. Like I went down to Costa Rica and I was just, I was with family and everything, but I was like, oh, there's probably some bit corners. Obviously, there'll be some bit corners here. So I just tweeted out, hey, who's in Tamarendo? And, you know, I ended up meeting up with two, two people like separate nights.

both ended up being actually Canadian expats that left when shit was hitting the fan here but they were both like yeah we've you know we live down here one was from Quebec one was from Ontario I think and and yeah I just got to hang out with some awesome bitcorners there same like when I was in New York and Tatum was like pretty close but couldn't quite make it there was but like six or seven of us went out for

went out for drinks. It was a blast. It was awesome. You know, just there's been so many places that I've been and just it's so easy to to reach out and find people. And I really can't wait to get down towards El Salvador and and see what's going on down there. That one is going to be an interesting one, I think.

I feel like I don't really know what to expect, even though I've seen. seen a good amount of, you know, oh, I'm in this location or, oh, I've seen videos and stuff like that. But, you know, you don't really experience it until you're actually there. So I'm very curious about getting to El Salvador. That's one of my bucket list items for 2023. So, but yeah, like, it's just so cool that you can go anywhere on earth. And you instantly have a connection with somebody.

And you know that in some way, shape, or form you're going to hit it. it off. So I love that. You don't need to be high profile either. I mean, you have a lot of followers. You can hit up a meetup on meetup.com or there's all sorts of chat groups. I mean, it's not hard to go and connect with these people wherever you are in the world, which is, I think is really, really awesome. Yeah, absolutely.

Tam, what have you, what are you thinking about community-wise with Bitcoin? I mean, that's one of my favorite parts of it all. I actually It is insanely easy I was on a Twitter space Last year It was a choice Twitter space

And I can't remember what The conversation was about But I raised my hand And Brian Harrington Was talking And I asked him some questions And I said that I was down in New Orleans And he was like

Oh no way I know so and so and so And so I'm going to get you all in touch Next thing I know I'm going to a Bitcoin policy meetup in New Orleans with people who have, I had no idea even existed like a couple hours ago. But now I'm actually meeting up with them again after we get off of this call. And I made a tweet about it actually today.

That meet up, I did not enjoy it because I was in a new city. I had no friends. and I just like I let my own reservations hold me back. But between then and now, I've gotten really involved with a lot of different groups of people. I've met a lot of people. And I've realized that if I just go for it, that the community aspect is really great. And so now, I mean, this media, that I'm going to tonight.

I'm so excited about it. It feels like I haven't I haven't been to a Bitcoin meetup since that one. And this one feels like a lot different because I have allowed myself to, you know, get engaged with the community. But it seriously is one of the biggest things for me. Like while you were talking about Bitcoin Miami, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you were talking about Bitcoin Miami. I wanted to say that I was actually a recipient of one of Steve Aoki's cakes in the face. I might have gotten a video of you. I was nearby. Well, I was going to try to find that picture.

And I found it. It was in a thread of all the people that I had waited to meet that I ended up meeting. And I mentioned how I only knew these people from really sketchy group chat. or Zoom windows and I've never seen any of them in real life. I don't know how tall they're going to be, but I seriously consider them some of my best friends because I talk to, there's a good handful of them that I talk to just about every day. They support me and everything that I'm doing.

I'm seeing how they're growing in the space. One of my friends, Jim Chuchuk, he was like, hey, you live next to the, oh yeah, he was in New York. Sorry, guys again. He was actually in New York. But he was like, you live relatively close to the New Orleans airport, right? I was like, yeah. He goes, can I pay you to pick me up?

I was like, brother, no, I will, I'll go there and wait for you all day, all night. Like, let's hang out, grab a beer. And we did. And now I'm just like watching him go to Guatemala and do work with Lago Bitcoin. And he's asking me how between two A6 is going. And I just consider him one of my best friends. And I would have never known him. if it wasn't for magic internet money.

Mm-hmm. I wonder what this leads into, and I'd be curious what you guys think, we have all these meetups and they keep getting in every single town around the big cities. They're going to start merging together. Do they merge together? Is it just become like church?

Like, it just happens all the time. You can just go whenever you want, and there's sometimes bigger events, like conferences, which conferences are totally saturated. But yet people are going to them, people are showing up. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I don't know what, I was wondering what you guys thought about that. I think Jacob, and Tatum kind of to kind of pull this thing together is, is when you see this happening, right?

Is it's happening because Bitcoiners know they're all kind of working to be better selves, right? Their best self, right? And it's a journey. So we don't really look at like where people are coming from. much as where they are going. What is their potential? And so very quick to not be those really judgy people. It's more of like, how do we find solutions for this guy and bring them into how,

you know, how this is going to do, you know, how is it going to work? How is it going to have more conviction? How is it going to add value to this space? And when you start to see other people as valuable again, it's not like your enemy and not as like this, I don't know, whatever it is that they want you to be more. you know, mad and divisive over. It's, you start to see people as very, very, very valuable in this, in this movement. And you're just like, man, I don't care where he came from.

He's on that path. And I'm going to forgive him for whatever, you know, whatever he thinks. And I'm going to help him find his best self. That's a incredible culture to be a part of. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many different people, like, uh, I've seen people on just about every end of the political spectrum, different races, religions,

like, but at the end of the day, they're Bitcoiners, and Bitcoiners are Bitcoiners, and they're fighting for the same reason. Like, Bitcoin is valuable to different people for different reasons. Maybe it's access to actual hard assets that can be used. maybe it's the first time they've been able to store wealth legitimately. Maybe it's a number of different things. What happens behind the scenes when you're not interacting with Bitcoin? I don't know.

But we're all learning from each other on the Bitcoin side of things and learning. You're right. We're just not judgmental as far as I've seen. I've seen. Never mind. But I mean, like the people who are actually willing to talk. and listen. Like, I, it's, it's insane. It's almost like you just have that immediate, it's like a fraternity. Like, oh, you're a bitcorner. I'm a Bitcoiner. What's up? And then it's like,

now let's get to know each other because we, we kind of have that link. And we're on the same team. Yeah. Yeah. Very easy to have conversation. Like, you end up in a conversation with a Bitcoin or and instantly there's going to be some sort of. And it's not always necessarily Bitcoin related specifically. You just, you kind of hit each other's vibe right. away and you just it's very easy to converse. I love that about hanging out with Bitcoiners. I think it's awesome. So yeah, I'm looking forward to next week.

That's going to be a lot of fun coming down to Charlotte. I've never been to Charlotte, but I hear there's some awesome people down there. So that's going to be a lot of fun. And Anders and Pubby are going to be down. Guy Swan and his brother are going to be down. You guys might make me make the trip up. I literally was about to say, like, I don't might as well. I might go join you on bring two ASICs along.

Yeah, I didn't talk about it much. I don't know how much time we have, but we've got a lot of stuff planned. So very briefly, we have, so the cattleman's piece is the first night. That's going to be different cuts of meat. I think serve the buffet style. And that's paired with the beef initiative, which goes back to Shane's point, which is, you know, food intelligence and Bitcoiners are, you know, thinking about questioning everything now because the money was so wrong. What else could be wrong?

And so that's what that night's about. It's going to be a good time. I think we're going to have Texas Slim speak for a little bit, but other than that, it's just going to be some food and some good vibes. The next day, we have BTC sessions been kicking us off at the McCall Center. It's a church. So we have an upstairs and a downstairs area And I'm going to probably call it the coin it dungeon down there We're going to do the workshops

But that's going to be for the meat of the day And then we have a good little break there And then we put a lot of energy into this party The party is advertised towards bitcoins And there's a whole separate campaign Which is advertised just to Charlotte And that we did not mention Bitcoin Just to Charlotte.

We're just trying to this Trojan whoresome Just get them in You're going to get there and be like What the fuck? So we'll see how this goes. We've never attempted this. Things are looking pretty good right now. I think it's going to be a really good time.

But we have a lot of stuff lined up there. It's going to be quality. We have your mama's big fat booty band, which is based at Asheville, which is nearby. They're a long established band. It's going to be funky music. We have two DJs surrounding them. Speak Easy, a photo booth room, a fortune teller, and Hidden Satoshies we're putting around. It's one of our sponsors, helped us.

with that and a karaoke room dedicated karaoke room which is really badass this place has a has a really cool karaoke room if you're into that sort of thing i'm gonna probably avoid that area but i'll be in there that's my jam i'm gonna go hit some karaoke me and stepan lavera almost hosted a karaoke night for bitcoin 2020 before it got canceled oh man that's been fun to see i feel like we still need to do that maybe i'll see about bitcoin 2023 Well, we haven't come next weekend. Yeah. Awesome.

All right. Well, gentlemen, I'm going to start rounding us out here. What I always do at the end of each episode is I like to get just any final thoughts you may have. And also a recommendation. And this recommendation can be anything that you found helpful in your Bitcoin journey. It could be an app, a book, an article, a podcast, a video, a device, really just any thing that you think somebody should check out if they're watching this. So I'll kick

us off. I've actually got two things that I wouldn't mind recommending but I'm also going to shill on behalf of one of the panelists in a second too. But the first thing I want to shill is this. It is a

I guess like a graphic novel. It's called the Time Chain Codex. I've been one to I've seen this a couple of times. I need to check it out. It's cool. So all of the art is done via AI. So AI inputs, all of this done AI.

And it's basically it's a future civilization that is linked into the Bitcoin blockchain being broadcast from Earth. But there's somewhere in the Andromeda Galaxy. And they're linked up to the time chain. And they're basically sending out broadcast communicating like, what the time chain is and like how it you know how it ties everything in with truth and and and uh it's it's it's pretty astounding anyways well worth checking out it's called again the time chain codex you can actually download it from swan but uh fractal encrypt on twitter is the one that uh that helped put it

together and yeah i'll i'll share that momentarily um the the other thing i was going to mention too um is i had him on the show last week but uh a book from uh brian de mint just arrived uh bitcoin evangelism so um dude was so well spoken on the show um and it's like this is a good like hefty book and I've kind of been flipping through it. And it seems like it was well researched. And I love that he pulled some of the best information from some of the best people and kind of put it into a singular resource. So while we're checking out.

And then the last thing, sorry, I kind of have a few things I wanted to show. But the last thing I wanted to shill here is I don't, the chat may not be familiar with Tatum, based on the best comments. So I just wanted to drop the trailer for the first episode of between two ASICs. I'm blushing. I'm just going to play it here so we can all enjoy. Why did you agree to this?

I still don't know. Fair enough. I'm so looking forward to that. Oh, man. Yeah, check it out if you want. I'm excited for it as well. Thank you for the shill. Yeah, no worries.

I think this kind of content is needed. Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it. I'll toss it to you then. Any final thoughts that you have? Anything that you'd like to recommend that you think will be useful as cool for people to check out? Take it away. Yeah.

kind of going off my topic of mining just go to Mimpool Dufface and explore the whole in the time. They have the mining data has so many useful

visualizations of the mining industry globally. You can also, I mean, beyond that, they also have the lighting dashboard in beta. And there's just so much information on here. It's really, really fun to just learn. It promotes you to kind of do your own research as well. Like it gives you kind of like, it almost pulls you in a bit and you're like,

okay, now I know what to look for. It's not like, I don't know what I don't know. But Memple is one of my favorite projects out there. And as far as one more recommendation, and of course I, I I feel honored to do this on BC Sessions channel, but get a hardware wallet. If you already have one, get a different one and just learn and play around with it. He actually inspired me to kind of do, explore different hardware wallets and actually dive into hardware wallets. I wasn't lying to an extent of before I had cold storage. I was actually keeping everything on exchanges until BTC sessions.

thanks then. But I started out with a treasurer. I thought it was great. There's various thoughts on it. It just came out with a Bitcoin-only firmware. The UI is amazing. I was like, I want a cold card

because this video that I'm watching looks really cool. And I started researching cold card. It was amazing. And I played around with that. And I learned so much new stuff. I've downloaded Sparrow, downloaded Specter,

There's all sorts of different things that I wouldn't using with my treasure because it was just a native suite. But get your hands dirty is what I'm trying to say. And just learn by doing. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people think they need prerequisite knowledge to start doing these things. No, the medium that you're utilizing is the educational resource. Like actually doing it is how you get educated.

So just dive in, ask questions when you screw up. Well, you're learning. You're actively learning what you're doing. So yeah, great recommendation. I'll toss it to Shane. Dude, any final thoughts and recommendations from you? Recommendations. I'm going to stick with the hippie-dippy stuff a little bit.

The open-mindedness of our people is pretty easy to kind of understand. But I think there's a lot of people in the population out there that really doesn't get it. There's a great book out there. It is the immortality key. And it has to do a lot with psychedelics and psilocybin. Very specifically towards the end. And it's one of those things where if people are closed-minded and they can have just an entry, just the right of, you know, right person, right.

right time, right shaman, like all this kind of stuff, you start to open people's minds in, in a more gravitational towards this concept of love, of forgiveness of, you know, this very, right now, very present type of situation and your creativity just will, it'll blossom. With that being said, then as your mind is opening, for those people that are trying to understand what world you're living in, I'll tell you what. self-hloid almost he had the Bitcoin standard first but I think the best part of that was the fact that it introduced a lot of people to the Fiat standard which kind of gave them a much better understanding of what it's doing to our culture what it's done to our food what's done to our health

what's done to our our religion our societies all these other things that have been decayed once you start to see that door opening I think you can start to make adjustments and so I think it's all about opening people's minds. It helped me open my mind considerably considering that and do a lot of healing. And then I think, you know, lastly I'll say, my next chapter is a, it's a PTSD chapter and it's called Brave. And it has to deal with exactly that. It's going to be trying to heal, not just veterans, but a lot of people out here in the mountains of North Georgia, where we're going to do a lot of things around all of this and try to be an example to this community. So that's what I would recommend.

And I appreciate Ben, Jacob, and Tatum. Thank you guys for hanging out, man. What a great opportunity just to make some new friends. And I don't know, share all this kind of stuff for the, just an outstanding group of people. Thank you.

Awesome. Love it, man. And again, that book was The Immortality Key. Is it Brian C. M.R. Rasky. Yeah.

Moreski. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Now I'm going to have to grab that. and take a little dabble in it. Yeah, I think that would be great. Awesome.

I'll toss it over to Jacob. You get the last rip at it. So any final thoughts and recommendations? Yeah, so you guys queued me up pretty well here. So I want to say go to your local meetup, but one of the things that we host is a book club. It's on Twitter spaces, so any of us anywhere can join it. and the next book we have is the seventh property oh that's a good one and i have not read it i'm

i'm not very far into it maybe 40 pages but it's awesome and uh we have one member i'm close friends with here who said this is the book to read sorry sorry safety but this is the book to read i i have that same since but uh so we've been hosting this book club for a while and um really excited to have this one it's going to be on november 14th i think we're going to do it at six, we've been doing 6 p.m., but I think we're doing 6.30 p.m. I think we'll get a little more people on Monday on number 14th. We've been doing these this year and attempt to hold us accountable to read all the Bitcoin books we have on our shelves. So it's been going really well. I'm really excited about it. And yeah, so seventh property, number 14th, join your local meetup.

It's not ours. Go somewhere else. I love that. Speaking of that book, Eric Yakes, is the guy who wrote it. He randomly, at Bitcoin 2021, he came up to me and he was like, yo, man, I wrote a book. I just released it, but anyways, I'd love

if you gave it a read. And so I was like, sure, what's it called? I bought it on Amazon, like, this, as he was talking to me. And I gave it a read. And, like, he hadn't really, like, not many people had looked at it yet. It was brand new.

He was just kind of, hadn't even like made a name for himself yet but holy crap what a read like it it dives equally deep into like history of money kind of stuff but then I find it goes even deeper into like the situation we're in right now with how our our fiat legacy system is structured and then it goes deeper into the technicals of bitcoin than like the bitcoin standard did it's just I feel like it's like the the Bitcoin standard is is very accessible for a lot of people. The seventh property, I think I'd say equally accessible.

Maybe, maybe some of the technical stuff might be a little bit more difficult, but like it is fully fleshed out. It's like a good extensive read. And I, I don't know, I can't say enough good things about it. So yeah,

it doesn't seem to have any fluff on it and the, uh, the first 20 pages. I thought were amazing. Like they tell you, they show you in a graph, this is what we have, and they break it down, and this is what it is. And I've gotten into the history part next, but I mean, I got another 200 pages to read. But so far, it's awesome.

Yeah. Eric's such a cool dude. Yeah, he's great. I love him. Yeah. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I'm going to wrap it up here. Thank you very much for joining me.

I appreciate this. This is a good, like, damn near two hour rip. So I appreciate all your time. Everybody that's watching, all of their Twitter handles are linked down below. So give them a follow and then you can find everything that they're doing through that. And yeah, I'll leave it there. Guys again, thank you so much. And you're welcome back anytime.

Thank you, Ben. Thanks, Ben. Cheers, guys. I'll see you soon. Awesome. And everybody watching, thank you guys so much for being here and being part of the show and keeping those comments coming. I really appreciate it. go check out everything these guys are doing because it's again it's all awesome definitely

worth following all of them on Twitter and following up with all that stuff um what else do I have to tell you well uh of course like subscribe share all those things really help getting this in front of more eyeballs uh you can of course also hit up the previously mentioned sponsors coin kite shake pay leaden bill refill bill fottle they're all down here um I said I was going to be in Charlotte coming up next week. So hopefully I'll see some of you guys there. But I'm also going to be in LA for Pacific Bitcoin in November. And I am running a workshop there. So I'm going to do a cold card deep dive. It's four hours, four hours of cold card goodness. So we're not just covering the basics of like setting it up and doing transactions. No, we're going to dive into some of the features there.

So like if you want to have like a good in-depth knowledge of your cold card and what it can truly do, This is for you. So be sure to check it out. They're on the website, BTCSessions.ca. You'll see an events page and you can check it out and grab tickets there. I'm only doing 15 spots for this because I want time to actually address every single question and go one-on-one with people. So yeah, feel free to check that out. And finally, if you really enjoy the show, you can always drop me a Bitcoin tip on my strike page.

Strike.comme slash BTC sessions. type in any amount you want. Hit the tip button, you'll see a lightning invoice or if you tap to the right of regular Bitcoin QR code. With that, I'm out. Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, and I will see you guys next time for your daily session.