BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Tatum Turn Up, Tarantula, Raj Patel ep437

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

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What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show, another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish. Very excited. We've got awesome guests waiting to join us here. I'm also happy to be doing my, I guess, my first one back from Riga. I was in Riga for Baltic Honey Badger. Unfortunately, I fell ill halfway through that. So I saw one day of the official conference and then I saw a whole lot of the inside of a hotel room. But the stuff that I did see was great. And I got to check out the Noster content in the two days prior. So I feel like it wasn't a total loss. So I'll give a nice hat tip to everybody over at Hoddle Hoddle that put together an excellent event.

And for what I hear, the second day was no exception. despite me not being able to see it with my own two eyes. So other than that, I'm back in the saddle. I'm feeling better and I'm raring to go. And yeah, of course, this is live. I defer to my friend Bill here regarding that. We'll do it live. Do it live.

I'll write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. Now, if you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share all those things. getting this content in front of our eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Now before we dive in, we're going to take a quick look at where we're on the market right now. I currently have pulled up timechain calendar.com and I am pulling up the live chat now over on the right hand side of the screen. Everything you say from here on in will be live for the

world to see for better or worse. Back on timechain calendar.com, we're sitting at 59,000, $80 per coin. A single U.S. dollar will snaggy 1,693 SATs. A whole lot of the same fees I've been seeing lately low, four sats per byte priority and any time. So, you know, it's not bad if you transact regularly. Miners, not so keen on that. But hey, you know, such as life. And in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.74 million of them, that is 94.03% of the total supply. We're going to do a quick shout out to our sponsors here, and then we'll dive right in with our guests. We'll see you in a sec. Bitcoin Well is on a mission to enable independence by being one of the easiest and quickest ways to purchase Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S.

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And you can check out the links in these show notes down below and sign up today. Speed wallet is a Bitcoin Lightning Wallet built with simplicity in mind. Spend and receive with ease, claim your own lightning address, shop your favorite gift cards, and even earn rewards when you spend. Head over to speed.app to download the app on your mobile or desktop today and use the link down below to get 5,000 sats for free and have the chance to win even more. All right, and we are back in. Before I bring in our guests, I just got to let everybody know. This is official from Yellow. He wants you all to know that 58K is communism.

Break free. Green skies await us above. So you can hold that statement close to your heart. And we're going to bring in our guests now. So I want to welcome to the stage. I'll do a quick roll call and then we'll do some intros here. So I want to welcome to the stage. Raj, Tatum, and of course, huddle tarantula.

Welcome all for thank you for being here. Very excited to get bullish with you guys on a Friday. Let's do a quick round for those that are unfamiliar that are watching in the show. Who are you? What do you do? And we'll just do round robin here. So Raj, I'm going to toss it to you first. Can you give yourself a little, a little insult to this?

Hey, Ben. Thanks, nice. It's good to be here. So I'm a founder at Speed Bitcoin Lightning. We work on Lightning Network, try to develop the APIs apps, try to push in as much innovation as possible on the Lightning Network. And yeah, that's it. Awesome, awesome. Well, I'm glad to have you, man.

First time on the show, but I'm sure you've got plenty of reason to be bullish. So I'm going to get forward to it. Awesome. Tatum, I'm going to toss it to you. I mean, my right hand for the Christmas show as regular. You need no introduction, but for everybody. that's currently watching wondering who the hell this is what are you going to tell him what's up youtube it's your boy tatum turn up before we get started don't forget to smash that like button

and subscribe to btc sessions he paid me to say that um no he didn't actually um but i'm tatum i am a degenerate minor uh it's a toxic relationship that i can't get out of but i love it reluctantly. Hosted between two A6 that may or may not still be a show, who knows. But yeah, I'm happy to be here. And yeah, come to the Christmas special. I'm the guy behind the computer every year wrangling people up. And it's so fun.

I love it. Favorite tradition. Well, I'm glad that you're a part of it regularly. I don't know why you subject yourself to wrangling Bitcoiners for six plus hours once a year. But I'm glad you do. And I'll continue to get that. free labor all day maybe yeah awesome and i'll toss it over to tarantula it's been some times since we chatted man uh good to see you but i'll let you give yourself an intro for everybody watching

uh who are you what do you do man uh how to tarantula aka ht i mine bitcoin off grid i am trying to you know, decentralized Bitcoin further than just via the node distribution and trying to make it available to everybody everywhere in regards to decentralized power. Awesome. I love that. I love that. Some of the stories you've told me have been fantastic. So I'm glad to have you.

How's your wife doing, man? She's good. She's great. Nice. We just had a nice little family road trip through August with the kids and every single. and everything through Western Canada and it was a good time. So we're,

I was seeing some of your pictures from that it looked absolutely beautiful. Your travels are crazy. I love it. Yeah, it was wild. It was, it was cool. I've never been like that far out on the coast.

So it was, it was beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So yeah, guys, we're going to dive pretty much right in.

Of course, for everybody watching, if you're unfamiliar with the show, This is Why Are We Bullish? Simple premise. Each one of us has come with a reason for being bullish, something we're currently excited about in and around Bitcoin, and that reason can take many different forms. There are no barriers to that. So the flow of the show is, number one, somebody's going to get to drop their reason why they're bullish. This is their chance to rant and get off their chest what they're currently buzzing about. Number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason.

So discussions, comments, questions, whatever rabbit holes, we want. I want to go down. And then finally, number three, once we put a ball on that topic, we're going to rotate to the next person. So reason, riff, rotate until we've all had to turn. Nice and simple, easy, peasy. And I'll get us kicked off today and then we'll get through the guests immediately after. Mine's not going to be super complex or anything, but it's in and around a topic that I'm

continuing to be more and more passionate about. And it has to do with, again, building your local community and, like, truly, going all in on Bitcoin can mean a lot of things. And a lot of people still see it as just like a savings vehicle. But when you really, really go all in, that means you don't have fiat to use, as is often the case for me. That's the goal, the end goal. And so you're in a position where obviously you must spend your Bitcoin.

And, you know, there's services and things that can help you navigate that. But I think that the most resilient way that one can truly become like a self-sovereign Bitcoiner and be able to be confident that regardless of who wants to tell you no, you can still live on a Bitcoin standard. And that's establishing peer-to-peer relationships with others where you can just directly pay for their goods and services with Bitcoin itself. without even navigating through a service. And so I've begun trying to build that out in my hometown with the sat market and bringing together all the bitcoins and kind of building out from there. And a lot of them already have skills and companies and products that they make.

And so it's no brainer for them to be able to just accept Bitcoin already. And I've started to see that pop up in my everyday life more and more to the point where I'm now kind of starting to look down the list of things that I regularly get, not just like using gift cards and stuff, which is great. That fills the purpose for me for a lot of things. Or using like a local service to be able to pay bills or things like that. Again, Bitcoin well.

That's awesome for me. But like the things that I can get now just directly from people I know with Bitcoin, I'm just going to kind of list off some of the things that I've, I'm now able to just obtain directly with Bitcoin from a guy or a girl that I know. And so when it comes to things like food, beef, chicken, eggs, jerky, honey, jam, all the types of stuff, dairy, a whole plethora of different things I can just get directly and locally produce, things like that. So I'm very excited about that. I also now have a personal trainer that comes to my house a couple days a week and paying him directly in Bitcoin. Yeah.

And it's great. I'm super happy about that. When I was in Vancouver just recently, do my road trip, there's a barber there and I just rolled up and was able to pay in Bitcoin. People referred me to two different barbers to check out while I was there. Earlier in the spring, kids threw a toy into the toilet and flushed it and who did I call the Bitcoin plumber in Calgary and deal with my shit. That's awesome. I love that. Even beyond that, I've got tradesmen that have done various things for me.

So actually a childhood friend of mine who has kind of ventured lightly down the Bitcoin rabbit hole with me. me as well. He's accepted Bitcoin for a variety of things, either in part or in full, for a number of things that I've done. So he did my basement, like the entire rental of my, it was an unfinished basement, and he finished the entire thing, paid parsley in Bitcoin for that. Bro, that's strong. Yeah, that's, it's awesome. My kitchen table, we're looking online, seeing like crappy tables that we could maybe order. And then I'm like, all these are going replacing immediately. Same guy, call him up. He gets like solid oak bases that he stains and he puts like a piece of quartz on top and like puts it all the, and it's the thing weighs like

350 pounds or something. It's not moving. Like it'll still be standing if the house ever burns down like this. And so like again, Bitcoin. My wood backdrop from my studio, he did that. And I can paying Bitcoin. Even the, I had a different contractor do our back deck, our backyard and our, and our, our, our, our, our fence like a couple years ago. And while I didn't end up paying him in Bitcoin, he was very curious about what I did. And he was very, he, I think it was more so, he, he didn't quite get the wife approval on that one. But he was, he was considering accepting partial payment in Bitcoin. And beyond-

You got to respect your ladies. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you got to walk that tightrope. But, you know, now I've got, I've got multiple, I've got a few people that are working in the background for me doing various things like communications and contracts, doing content management and in various forms. Obviously, they're Bitcoiners. They're working on a Bitcoin show, and I'm paying them directly in Bitcoin.

And then the cherry on top was the other day we had a cleaner come to the house. And she's come a few times. And she's kind of an independent contractor. And normally she just wants like a bank transfer. Well, the other day she's cleaning. And she sees all my Bitcoin books sitting on the shelves. She's like, are you like done with some of those books up there? Like have you read them all?

I'm like, yeah, I mean, I've read them. She's like, is there any way I can borrow a few of those? And she snagged three Bitcoin books to take home and go through them. Yes. I have so many Bitcoin books. I want to do like I don't know how, but I want to make like one of those free tiny libraries that you see pop up where they have like kids books. You just give one, take one. I want to do that with Bitcoin books because like I have a ton.

Also like right here on my floor, I have like. maybe 10 brains mining books. I don't need all of them. I could just like give them out. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I got an idea for that actually.

Yeah. Do it. Yeah. You know, you see those little tiny, they're like, it's like a big giant mailbox with a, with a plastic window.

You could just put one out there. If your neighborhood is, you know, not too bad, you know, just fill it and just put a sign on it. I feel like the Colorado government wouldn't like that too much you get a locking mechanism that's a zap to unlock

like a you know like a 100 sat like zap to open kind of thing that'd be hilarious and of course unfortunately that would keep out the no corners so I suppose that's counterintuitive but yeah yeah I guess So it would have to be quarters or something like that. But it could always spit out an LN URL at the end. But yeah, so that's why I'm bullish. That's what I'm excited about is more and more of my life is being directly able to be funded in Bitcoin with no go-between, with no third party. I just live.

And the people that I live in and around also are beginning to at least. dip their toes into that Bitcoin standard. So I'm stoked about it. And I don't know. I'm just curious in general, I guess, to go to the conversation on this particular topic. You know, what have you guys yourselves seen in your endeavors in and around people adopting Bitcoin, not just as a like a savings mechanism, but also kind of using it day to day? What have you been seeing as of late? What things have been interesting to you in that realm?

I'll jump in here because this is something that I've been actually working on myself because I always like to say oil your kill switches better have them not need them than need them not have them and that's just you know building a circular economy and being able to function comfortably if you know doomsday scenario happens and everything goes to hell and back And part of that was for me was also learning how to spend my spin my Bitcoin. And of course, originally I had, I was in this like fantasy scenario like, oh yeah, I'm going to fake my death. And then I'll have to put my coin to get all my like. But then I was like, actually, this is this is like something good that I would happily still do as a known, a live person.

and I've been kind of, I got kind of set back whenever I moved across the country because I just didn't have like the community that I did back home. And so any progress that I had made down south whenever I was home was kind of just wiped away. Luckily though, I moved to Denver and found a ton of bit coasters and through them through Denver bit devs and and several. conversations over drinks. We founded the space, which didn't mean to do this, but shameless plug for the space. It's a physical Bitcoin hub

that we're building here in Denver. And I just kind of thought that it was a cool idea to have like a go-to place for Bitcoiners who want to be there and we're going to have like a workbench and like conference rooms, co-working space.

Kind of like Bitcoin Park. Yeah, it was basically kind of founded to kind of rival Bitcoin. part Bitcoin Common. Sorry guys. But when we were at the founding meeting, when we were at the founding meeting, it was actually really, really cool because a ton of people from all around Colorado, not just Denver, came. And they were talking about like what we can do, what they can offer. And there are several people just at that meeting that were like, hey, I'm a rancher over in, I don't even know where. I still don't know anything, but Denver and Colorado. But, you know, direct peer-to-peer beef for Bitcoin. And I was like, oh, I actually have just shaken one of those guys' hands. Like, that's crazy. Like, I see people buying beef on Twitter with Bitcoin all the time.

Like, I actually see that now. And I haven't partaking it because his MOQ is a little higher than, you know, my budget. But it's really cool to actually see stuff like that happening. and it's really encouraging to see sat market. I have a dream that that's going to hopefully happen here one day where the adoption is wide enough that, hey, we're putting this farmer's market. There's like farmers markets all the time in Denver.

You can't drive down the street and not see a ton of tents set up in a park where people are selling art or selling like cutting boards or food or anything like that. It's like, I want to have one of those that we can put on and comfortably, you know, have it to where people know what to do or at least maybe have like an entrance booth like, hey, you know what? Here is a couple thousand sats for you to learn about use and learn about here and stuff like that. So it's definitely, I hit a reset for sure whenever I moved, but that minor setback was a major comeback. and hopefully, you know, I'm able to, you know, actually participate more now. Also, I do have my laptop charging this time. I had thought about that because the same exact scenario is going on.

It is plugged in and we are powered. I am not dying in the middle of the show this time. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, no, again, it's really cool to see. And I think maybe that move, it's just brushing you up on the skill set. of building out those relationships wherever you are locally, right?

Absolutely. Again, I think that it's a more positive thing than a negative. Raj, I'm curious to get your take on some of this because dealing with speed, I'm sure, dealing with that, you get a bit of a unique insight to, like, it's designed in such a way where it's meant to be very transactional, right? like lightning is that's inherent in it.

And so I'm sure you see a lot of interesting things happening on that end. But I'm also curious about just like in your own experiences, what you've seen on this front. Yeah, Ben. So at speed wallet, right, our focus from the day one has been to make it a spending wallet. It's a hot wallet. You know, it's not some wallet on which you store your like, you know, life savings. You know, this is supposed to be like the $100, $200 wallet that you carry around and use to spend right that's been the idea and to make it like

really really easy straightforward make sure that the experience is more than the transactions will never fail that had been our goal so when it comes to like some of the unique trends that I see is you know I think we have a pretty good cluster of users in gaming industry now like people who are actually live streaming the gaming you know they do accept the lightning rewards or lightning like tips on there you know they'll put the L and URL static QR code hopefully we have a bolt well very soon so you know yeah that's awesome yeah so that's awesome yeah so that's that's one area where we are so Ben you know as of today or I would say like

a six months back or a year back we had lot of Bitcoin lightning users, but they would be spread off all across the world. And, you know, it was very difficult to find, kind of create that economy, right? Well, where you have like a group of people transacting, you know, with each other using the lightning and they have a reason to do that, right? That cluster is very important and it would stick. And we see that happening in the gaming sector. So really excited about that. are trying to reach out to like game streamers and influencers and see if more will be willing to put up the LNURL's static QR code and start accepting the lightning payment.

We will give them an offer that they cannot refuse, you know. It's unique too in that I feel like once they see it, like once a gamer, a gamer is maybe used to being able to like get a tip or something on Twitch, but it's like it takes some time to get access to that money, whereas like, you know, you accept a tip and then instantly it's like, oh, I can just, I can just like use this right away to buy like a gift card for whatever I need, whatever locally or on my favorite stores or something like that, or I can save it.

Or the fact that they can also, if they do want to save it, you know, it can accrue value over. time. So it's got this kind of like cool dual purpose and it's so quick. I think it's just unique in that they can move it around very, very simply. I've got to think that there's a reason that these gamers that are used to getting online tips are the ones that see it and and try it out are gravitating towards it. Also on that note, I used to stream on Twitch and Twitch for one is just it's extremely hard to blow up on. Like there's,

it's, it's, it's almost every big Twitch streamer. There's almost like some degree of nepotism in there, like amongst the community. And even if you do try to make it from the ground up and you, you do have a little bit of a following and you are able to get donations and tips, first of all,

like you said, it's a wild garden. So like you have to grind, grind, grind, just to get there, just to maybe, possibly get tips, but then when you do Twitch, anyone that's the middleman, especially Twitch, is taking a ton of that stuff. And so like when you have something like zap, zap dot stream, which is

a master client for streaming, which I love using, if someone sends me a thousand sats, I get a thousand sats. I don't get, you know, a hundred sats. A hundred sets. That stream gets 900 or something like that. But it's direct to me ready to go whenever. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're actually on zap. Zap.Dstream right now. So, uh, oh, sweet.

I didn't know you were streaming. Yeah. I've been streaming to Nostor for, I think, all of this year and a good portion of last year. I'm trying to remember when I started doing it. But yeah, I just pointed it into restream and it goes there. It goes, it goes up number. of places, but it's very clear with what happened to Nico and simply Bitcoin this past week, and it's happened to me before too, that like we really need to examine, like, you can't put

all your eggs in one basket. And, you know, ideally, the world needs to shift to platforms where you just can't be taken down, where you actually can build something and feel confident that that's still going to be there the next day, not arbitrarily rug pulled on you. That's just terrifying. I cannot imagine how he must have felt this past week. Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah. Anyways, I digress.

Hottle, I'm curious. Your thoughts on kind of the living the life walk and the walk and using Bitcoin day-to-day. What have you seen? What are your experiences? So what I've seen that makes me feel more bullish about Bitcoin in regards to this is I'm seeing more individuals inquire about it in general and also business owners implementing it. I know a couple, like you said, you can get your beef and pay directly in Bitcoin. I know two ranchers who actually started their own websites and started marketing the ability to purchase their products in Bitcoin. And these are people that are not directly affiliated with guys like Texas Slim.

So it was an independent adoption. And to me, that is one of the strongest signals where it's not. any type of convincing involved from somebody in the space already or anything like that. It's just them being curious and actually doing the legwork to figure out what exactly this is and why it is important. And that tells me that more people are actually starting to wake up and understand what is happening around them in regards to the economic state of the world. as a whole. And so to me, you know, seeing that is very exciting, I'll say. And then as I said a moment ago, I am experiencing more inquiries about it just in general. Like I have a shirt that says off-grid Bitcoin mining and constantly I get people coming up to me now saying, well, is how does

that work if it's not you know if you're off grid and then these questions that I get are unlike questions I ever got before I never had people approaching me like publicly and just inquiring about these things in general so it it tells me that people are starting to wake up and see the sats for what they're worth and I think that's extremely bullish whereas you know over the last so I've been doing this for the better half of a decade now, off-grid and other situations. And from where I started to where the inquiries that were in the beginning, which were virtually non-existent, to where things are now, and how frequently I'm getting them,

I think that it's a sign that we're starting to pick up in regards to the adoption S-curve. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, again, as more and more people recognize the, it's a weird, like, gradual process, but as more and more people recognize the value of Bitcoin and get curious and learn, one, they'll first obtain some, but because they still have Fiat, they'll maybe just save the Bitcoin. But as they get more and more, they'll maybe start trying to use it here and there. And eventually, you get to a place where you begin to have less and less Fiat. And so you inherently need to use the Bitcoin.

And on in the inverse of that, the people that also recognize the value of the Bitcoin are going to want to accept Bitcoin themselves. And they're going to incentivize people too. I was going to say just add one more thing is that another thing that makes me pretty bullish on Bitcoin is what Mr. Patel here is doing with the Speed wallet. giving the ability to swap sats for stable coins. There's a lot of people out there who are concerned about the volatility of Bitcoin in general, just because they haven't been involved long enough to understand its actual nature,

and that price discovery is going to be something that, you know, it's long and drawn out. And so seeing implementations like that get me excited as well, because now you have individuals who may have been kind of weary of, you know, getting into this. And it, you know, this being connected, like he has a stable coin connection and swapability on his wallet, I believe. This gives people the ability to kind of go back and forth seamlessly and quickly without them actually. having to do a whole bunch of other steps and they can do it in smaller denominations. And so if they do get scared, they can just, you know, step over to there real quick. And then if they're starting to feel better about it, then they can step back into the orange, you know.

So I think that things like that are a good way to spread awareness. We were in the chat a little bit over the last 48 hours, and I was making the statement about stable coins being U.S.D. 2.0, and it's kind of a shit coin in itself. But I do understand that the actual ability for people to move back and forth seamlessly when they get anxious about what's happening is a plus overall. And he agreed with me himself that, you know, as time progresses, these things will fall to the wayside as more people start to understand Bitcoin. But it offers them the ability to kind of, you know, take a step back and then one step back and then two steps forward in, you know, an easier way that may be less intimidating than what people are used to. Yeah, fair enough. couldn't have been said better. Can I add something?

So, yeah, I mean, if we look at the rest of the world, right, most of the people have always looked at their currency, always in the reference of US dollar. Like, you know, if I look at it, like, you know, back when I was in India, Indian rupee was, like, worth how many dollar was what it was worth for me. So, you know, it's super easy for me to understand US dollar, Bitcoin, you know, is little, would require education and, you know, like some more sophisticated or technical user or, you know, somebody who is plugged in into the internet to kind of really, you know, take step into it.

But going into the US dollar is super easy, like converting somebody and bringing them on. And if we can do that on the lightning network itself with the Bitcoin rails underneath it, I mean, that's awesome, right? I mean, then they are, and they are just a step away from Bitcoin. There is easy interoperability. They can swap in and out. That's what, you know, we're trying to do. Yeah.

And, and I mean, just the very active of, because naturally what happens, obviously, as many people have experienced themselves. over their Bitcoin journey is, you know, some people, they get worried or they try to time things. And typically those things happen when, you know, at the most extreme ends of the price movement. And so like, oh, Bitcoin's dropping. I better, I better like go to safety of the US dollar while it's dropping. And then inevitably what happens? Like, you're doing that in and around a lower range. And then inevitably, of course, Bitcoin's going to accrue value over time. and you end up realizing like, oh, I think it's more just I need to get a hold of my own emotions

around this stuff. And like if I, if I'm just want to hold on to some Bitcoin for a while, then it's better to just take, take my hands off the wheel there and just let this thing be a little wonky because we know that in the long run, you know, it's, it's there to preserve the birth of your labor. The irony of finding safety in USD against Bitcoin is that that's going to end up. At least for me, earlier on in my journey, I was like, oh, Bitcoin is dropping. I better, you know, sell it all for USD until, you know, I feel a little better and it's going up. And now I'm like, oh, okay, well, now I've actually lost technically some Bitcoin because I tried timing the market.

and then same thing happened, same thing happened, same thing happened, end up with just like little to know Bitcoin versus what I started with. And I was like, huh, I wonder what would happen if I just kept it all on Bitcoin? But I also do understand too. I learned about this with one of my Indian friends who created, they changed the name and I can't remember what it is now. but he was from India and moved to the U.S. and was basically trying to create some sort of money transfer system on Bitcoin and Lightning Rails. And it ended up being a really cool product. And I'm really upset that I can't think of the name. But like you can text basically. All you needed in India on the receiving side was a phone to receive.

and anyone from all over the world could send USD to India via Bitcoin and Lightning Rails. I was like, that just sounds like a lot of extra steps. But then I realized, okay, I was born into the US dollar. I grew up using the US dollar. I got a degree in the US dollar. I have a banking in finance. I know it's crazy.

And so the only thing that I know is the US dollar. I do know that it is inherently bad. I guess when you look at a Fiat standard, it's like, okay, Bitcoin is the better U.S. dollar. I don't want to compare U.S. that came out wrong. But it's like that's the step, that's the next step. But whenever Bitcoin is the better U.S. dollar. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Can I get that quoted?

Thank you. But I realized after talking to him and also learning about Zimbabwe, Argentina, and hyperinflation over there. Their refuge was the U.S. dollar because it was the better currency than what they were using. And it's like they've always been exposed to the U.S. dollar not necessarily directly, but in some capacity because of how borrowing, trading works, everything like that. They're not automatically going to just be like, oh, our currency is dying. Let's skip over the U.S. dollar because that's probably bad too and go to the next best.

No, there's a layer of learning there. And I've also seen that in my studies with developing nations in Africa and how they honestly, in some degrees, they prefer stable coins for transactions. And not necessarily the preservation of wealth is not the forefront of their mind. It is transacting and making sure that they are able to. to it is it is the preservation of wealth is there but it's not okay how can i use bitcoin to preserve my wealth it is going to go up into the right forever that's like 25 steps ahead of where they are because they have not they've just not been exposed directly to the u.s. dollar their entire life and that's kind of their escape so to speak um when they face hyperinflation yeah well jens i i

think on on this topic in general we're seeing a a lot of great things in and around people, again, recognizing the value of Bitcoin, but in various different ways and beginning to integrate it either as a payment rail or as a mechanism for receiving tips or, again, as I am and others that I'm seeing accepting Bitcoin or using it day-to-day to obtain the things that they need. And I just love that trend. And so, yeah, I'm glad we could chat on that. I know this topic, we went down some rabbit holes here, but I want to do a rotation.

So I'll put a bow on this one. And we're going to jump to the next topic. And Raj, I'm going to toss it to you. I'm going to cue you up with the same question everybody gets. Why are you bullish? Okay. I think about it. Okay.

So we are probably about two months from the presidential election, right? And if you look at both the candidates right now, obviously, like, if Trump gets re-liked, he made a commitment at Bitcoin Nashville to have more friendly regulations and, you know, have Bitcoin as a national strategy cassette and all that. So I think I expect him or his administration to be more favorable. and let's say if we have Kamala Harris right I mean if she gets elected I mean we might think that it would somehow turn out to be unfavorable but I believe that it'll be even more favorable you know she is going to create a massive fiscal expansions you know with yeah two $25,000 housing credits $6,000 check credits And you recently saw this, I mean, I could not even believe myself when I saw that news.

California Senate approving $150,000 for first-time house buyers, undocumented immigrants for a down payment. I mean, that's so insane. I mean, I could not even believe myself. And I think, you know, if she comes, that will probably expand. So, yeah, I mean, we're going to say billions and millions of getting printed. it again and I think that's going to be very positive for Bitcoin as well. So I'm very bullish. I love, I love whoever the next president is is good for Bitcoin.

Yeah, exactly. I love, yeah. If it's good for Bitcoin, it's good for Bitcoin. If it's a bad nominee, it's still great for, I love that the silver lining you painted around a horrible administration is blinding. This dark cloud is going to grow. many flowers after a porous rain. It's like it's, but it's true though. It's it's there's there's a bunch of a bunch of dudes on Twitter they're all all about like just accelerate just like rip the bandaid off get the bad policies through so that people can actually migrate the thing that will

save them from those bad policies quicker. And their reasoning for that is like well if you're in a bad relationship with somebody or a friend of your years was in a bad relationship and they were like emotionally abusive and screaming at each other all the time and they know there's no there's no chance it's going to work out whatsoever it's it hasn't it hasn't been a good relationship for ages um would you want that person to drag it out forever and ever and ever or would you want them to just i just call it quits let's break up let's have a fresh start and begin rebuilding our lives and so that's that's kind of their stance it's like yeah get Give me the admin that's going to just pump the trillions and trillions out that money printer

and make people realize how necessary Bitcoin is. Yeah. I'm curious between Hoddle and Tatum here, you know, how they stand. Obviously, like, never trust a politician, but I guess in this framing, you don't really need to. Yeah. I don't really care about what regulations they want to implement or do or say. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and building it anyway. Yeah, 100%.

And I mean, it's great for those that already are, you know, those of us that have already been living that Orange Life, hopefully spurs more into doing it. But Tatum, it looked like you had something to say that too. I have a lot to say in some things. I'm not, I don't know if I should say, but, like, my history with, my history of politics is like, I used to be very into politics from a national level all the way to a local level. And then I slowly started realizing, even before getting, you know, sucked into the Bitcoin culture, thanks guys again. I can't leave now. but even before then and more so after I started I got orange spilled and did more research

about just everything within the government federal spending XYZ I slowly then very quickly started realizing oh especially on a national level it does not matter what I choose someone is already basically chosen to win and it does not matter what they say because they're just going to do whatever they want. And we've seen that too many times. And I think it's awesome that Trump is pandering to Bitcoiners. And I think it's awesome that Kamala is starting to come around to crypto. And I think it's awesome that RFK has been such a big proponent. But at the end of the day, they're all still politicians. At the end of the day, Trump has already launched four NFT projects with the literal promise of future games, which sounds like an unregistered security.

Uh, never mind. Um, at the end of the day, RFK went to a card dot said that Charles Hoskinson is a crypto guru. He also went to an Ethereum conference right here in Denver, Colorado, said that he was buying Ethereum. At the end of the day, Kamala is still Kamala. I hate politicians. No one's going to save me. I know that Bitcoin is permissionless and I know how to use it without them. I'm just going to keep going. And I know that I'm still going to face repercussions for whatever the administration, whatever decisions they make because I live in America. But that's one thing that I can control is my Bitcoin and my node and my relays and my self-sovereign server.

So sorry, I went off. So these are four, Tatum. Yeah, I had a friend watching. I sent the link in a group. chat and he said is he loading a mag on camera? I was like yeah. Yes.

Normal stuff here on my end. I love it. Yeah, I mean, again, there's no good. It is hilarious. Like the NFT, like the fourth.

Is that the fourth one? I think it is the fourth one. Yep. Oh, Lord. I, yeah. It's, It is what it is.

I mean, like, it's not out of character. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, hey, it is what it is. And again, at the end of the day, the big corners that know what's up can just continue to live in their lives.

The state can continue to bankrupt itself and try to print. paper over the losses until that no longer works and uh and and and we'll still be standing as that as that whole house of cards falls down so there you go i will say though i i will say that wouldn't even like me disagreeing with raj that was just my uh feelings coming out but while i do dislike politicians um i do agree with raj that either one will end up being a good thing for Bitcoin, whether it hurts for a little while or the Band-Aid is ripped off. So, yeah, just to wrap that up and bring it back to the point. Yeah.

Yeah. Basically just giving us, one will give us a little bit more runway to build some stuff. The other one will be like, all right, let's do this thing. Let's go. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Cool. Well, I'm going to, unless there's anything else that anybody felt like this, they missed, I'll put a bow on that one.

So am I good to go on that or unless anybody had any last second thing? Cool. So I'm going to awesome. Thank you for that, Raj. I'm going to put a bow on that topic. We are going to come up and we're going to do another rotation here. But before we do, I'm going to do a shout out to our final sponsors as well. And we're also going to give away some sats.

So everybody that's watching, get out your lightning wallets. Tatum, you can't have them. and get out your lightning wallets and be ready to scan the QR code that's going to be up on the screen after the break. We will see you momentarily. See you guys soon. CoinKite.com has some of the best hardware on the market today to secure your Bitcoin. The cold card queue is an absolute powerhouse and is my daily driver. On top of this, they have plenty of other goodies including the Mark 4, the tap signer, open dimes, the block clock, and much more.

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Anybody that's been watching the show last few months here, you're familiar. We're on the Bitcoin Well dashboard. Of course, they're a place in Canada and the U.S. You can get your Bitcoin. But we are going to be throwing a coin in the Bitcoin wishing well. And you're going to have the chance to win somewhere between 500 and potentially a million sats. And all you need is a lightning wallet with LN URL enabled. You can scan the QR.

Whoever gets it first gets it. So there's one winner. And yeah, so we're going to go ahead and do that now. So I'm going to play now. I'll redeem. I'm going to enlarge this a little bit on the screen so it's easier to scan for you guys. But off it goes, there's 500 sats for whoever scans it first. I will leave it up for the food.

I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. That would be the worst. But whoever does get it, drop a note in the chat, let me know, or a tweet or a Noste note or wherever you are. And yeah, let me know if you snagged them. But congrats to whoever does. And we are going to be right back in here. So awesome.

Yeah, I got it. You get it. Yeah, I didn't get it. He's fucking speedwalling right now. That's crazy. Oh, man. That is awesome. The chat is way too slow, you guys.

Look at that. A guest rug pulled you. You got a quick call. That's hilarious. Fantastic. Speaks to the name Speed Wallet. Yeah. Oh, man.

Well, I mean, that was perfect. Awesome. Well, we're going to dive into the next topic. Tanim, I'm looking straight at you. And I'm going to ask you the same question. Why are you bullish? All right. So this is virtually the same answer that I have given every time I've been on the show.

But it changes why every time. But I am bullish on Pleb Miners. And that is coming from, there we go. Yeah. Right, you just took the words right out of my mouth. That is coming from basically a lot of, a lot of, A lot of learning that I've done on mining in general, but also mining on a larger scale, a lot of learning I've done there. And also one of my main crusades right now in Hidal Tarantulas also talks about this too, but centralization of mining in block template generation.

And I originally, you know, when you think about decentralization, there's really, there's really two ways of looking at it. Physical and digital decentralization. Physical decentralization is when, you know, you have someone, you have minors all over the world, people plugging in space heater S-9s or bit axes or Apollos, anything like that, making sure that there's always still going to be something. in case the government says no more of this or you know massive storm wipes out 300 megawatts or something like that. But then on the more scary side is digital decentralization where the block templates are basically just being white labeled by one entity bit name. And it's it's like a it's why I plug HT cool. there's like a there's an analogy somewhere there but i don't know because like bitcoin mining is where it is because of bitmain but also it is being held at gunpoint because

of bitman as well um and so it's like okay i can you know plug in an s9 in my apartment i can plug in a bit axe or actually bit x a little bit different but like you know oh i can you know convert my shed outside to have, you know, 10 S19J pros or something like that. But if I'm hashing to a pool that's just been white labeled by Bitmain and I'm still abiding by their block templates, then I'm actually not helping the problem as well. But doing a lot of research on solo pool and ocean and. Bitax and all of these little bitty

in the grand scheme of things relatively speaking to like Bitmain little bitty projects are going to end up snowballing working it together and going to basically save the security of Bitcoin mining itself because Bitcoin miners aren't

there's always the same they secure the network and to a degree that is true to a degree it's not exactly, it depends on how you look at it, but when you are almost aiding in a 51% attack that's just sitting dormant

that you're actually that Bitcoin miners are the weak link in the security of the network because reorgs could happen which I think that's a little more unlikely but the main thing,

censorship. You're you could be you know whoever higher up could call Mr. Bitmain and say, hey, I don't want this address. It's one of my addresses to have any any transactions. And they block that address from having any transactions in their blocks. And then I'm censored by everyone who is knowing or unknowingly aiding in those templates being pushed out. But there's also now ways where, like, say that did happen. And, you know, one of all the pools that Bitmain's templates are being propagated in won't ever pick up that transaction. My transaction will sit in the MIM pool and there will be a pool that will pick it up. It may be a little longer.

It may not be next block. But now we're at a point where, okay, we know there are some people who are running miners who are the, actively putting their footprint in the hash rate, i.e. Ocean, for instance, that you can see what templates are being built, that what templates are being hash towards. And you can know that my transaction, if anyone, Ocean's going to pick that one up because I know that Ocean has it in their mempool. So all over the realm of physical digital decentralization, I am bullish on PLEB miners, and also just hold in chat one Zeta hash by 20 by the end of 2024 I promise you that's going to happen I have some stats on the line with Adam O from upstream data but I am bullish because when one one domino falls they all fall except for the plebs because those aren't in the domino line yeah that's yeah I agree I like the two things that you mentioned I have both of them directly behind me this is like my S9 minor uh for my space face heater over here and actually right above it is the nerd axe that I did a video on recently.

I do have like an M30 plus, but again, like it's just currently I don't have a use for the heat that would like even begin to make sense with my power costs to use it. So, you know, just run it outside. Yeah. Those things are running a puddle. on that what's minor? It will. Be smooth.

Yeah. Well, maybe, Tarantula, I'll let you tag onto this topic first before I give any general thoughts there, but So Tatum is absolutely 100% correct.

I have been talking about the Achilles heel in regards the Bitcoin mining being at the pool level and it being a bottleneck and it being the perfect kind of target for legislative action is that's kind of like what he's talking about when you get into blacklisting and white listing addresses and so to see more people come out of the woodwork and start building like ocean and demand pool like even I myself am undertaking the task of establishing a pool.

It makes me more bullish on the future in regards to what's going on out there with Bitcoin. Because right now, all the pools are proxies for Foundry or Ampoo. And it's really disconcerting to individuals who understand the nature of how this actually works from a nuts and bolts perspective and the direction with which it could go and how easily it could happen considering most of those entities that are established with these proxy pools and the BIDMA and pool and founding themselves. You know, they operate under a board of directors, essentially, and they're fiat incentive driven. And so I worry about the way that they make decisions. If something's going to come along and put pressure on them, someone or some entity,

that, you know, there's not a lot of doubt in my mind that they'll bend the need pretty quickly in regards to be in so that they can maintain what they're, what they've established and what they're doing. And so I'm really happy to hear Tatum bring this up. It was, this is a topic that me and him, we can go on for a long time about this. But it's extremely important and it is absolutely necessary that this starts to spread the awareness and individuals being willing to take on the risk of operating a pool independently. because to me personally, you know, if it doesn't happen, it's not that it's only a matter of time before Bitcoin is captured at that level.

It kind of already is from a corporatocracy standpoint. So the bottleneck needs to be broken and seeing all the different individuals out there like public. on demand and other players trying to come into the game that makes me happy. It kind of warms my heart. Yeah, 100%. Now, I'm curious, I don't know, like a lot of people, myself included, were very, like, mining to me was very foreign. It was like my major blind spot for ages. And I'd say it's still not. at all, like anywhere close to one of my strong suits. I'm like moderately familiar with certain things and like mostly from the PLEB minor perspective. I'm curious, Raj, if you've had any experience even like little home devices or like, or if you know of other people mining in another capacity or maybe yourself, like where are you at

when it comes to Bitcoin mining? Well, back in 2017, I did set up a mining. rig and yeah, that was about it. Yeah. Do you know what you had? No, I don't remember. I think it was a minor. I think it was a minor from Bittman. Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. Well, I mean, hopefully we see, again, as Tatum is mentioning, hopefully we see the return of people, you know, getting their hands dirty and starting to play and learn. Again, like if people watching this are curious about like some some low cost just like learning devices to to kind of get yourself going again like bitax.org can you know walk you through a number of different things just to

just to kind of show you what's involved in general and like i don't expect to be a uh making sats hand over fist here like this this is this is very much like a learning activity and it's definitely a hobbyist activity for sure Yeah, yeah. And you can think of it as maybe like a forever lottery ticket. Like it's very unlikely that you're going to make any money or anything. But if you can solo mine and then that's your lottery ticket in lieu of if you're a somebody who does buy lottery tickets, kick that habit, get yourself a bit axe or a nerdax, which I ended up getting mine when I was at BTC Prague.

but, you know, I think maybe like 180, 190 bucks or something like that for one of these things. And then you can just kind of leave it humming away and maybe one day you'll look out and you'll hit a block and all of a sudden your under $200 device is just gifted you a couple hundred grand or something like that. And that just happened like, what, a month ago, month and a half ago? something like that. It was fairly recent. I think it happened yesterday as you. I think there was one. Yeah, it did happen last couple of days as well.

Really? I think I read somebody. Yeah. I think so. Oh, crap. Yeah, they've already hidden the block with those things. That's fantastic. Well, yeah, you should, again, something like this is great.

Like the, you'll never, you're never, going to win the lottery lottery ticket is like the nerd minor that is for sure just like playing and i got one of those ticking away and it's more of a conversation piece that i have sitting out in the living room so somebody to come over and be like what is that little thing and then i can tell them um but in the the same realm is like the nerd acts bit acts type thing um you know you've got things like uh the future bit which is a little bit more of like a sleek nice looking thing you can have kicking around and it has a dual function. I love future bits. Yeah, and you can run a node with it too, like, you know, and you can link wallets to that node and everything. So it's like a, it, it goes beyond just the,

the mining part of it. So you can, you know, more justify getting a fancier device. And then Brains has their little Bitcoin mini miner as well. I haven't played with it myself. I do have a future bit on the way that I'm going to play with. But hopefully, I got my hands on one of these and learn a little bit further. But like, I mean, these are all promising things. I think it makes things a little bit more accessible. And I think I like FutureBits approach where they dual purpose it, where you have like some functionality out of using a node.

And then it's also a little bit of a minor. It's almost like we're moving back to the start of Bitcoin where a wallet was a minor, was a node. Like it was all kind of one thing before we put those out. It's like we're revisiting that to maintain decentralization, which is hilarious to go full circle like that. And I think that that paired with, it's like direct competition with, I don't want to call them bad actors because they're not, they're like what I'm talking about basically is like Pubco's.

for instance. How Trancholid did, had a debate in Vegas at Uncomascapable last year between public and private mining and it was one of the greatest, absolute greatest presentations I've ever seen, would encourage everyone to go back and watch that. But Pubcos are very, it's super interesting to think about publicly traded mining companies because what I think it was Ben Agnon said at that debate was that when a company goes public, they effectively turn into a whatever industry they are, they turn into a profit company. And their main goal regardless is to increase their shareholders value.

And when you're a mining company and a large portion of your revenue is mining and mining rewards, the that's not they don't care about the ethos and the the decentralization they care about the profitability

of whatever pool has the history of giving you X amount over this time yada yada with your hash rate or whatever and yeah you can change the pool whatever

whenever you want and they don't care they're going to change it whenever it's beneficial to them to whatever pool that they're able to go to and it's like a double-edged sword really with Bitcoin because it is permissionless,

but that's also kind of enabling the problem that we're seeing here. But at the same time, publicly traded mining companies expanding, growing is also kind of in a roundabout way, causing PLEBs and their small scale mining to expand and grow. And if both sides, if both sides are growing, then that's the entire network that is like forcing itself to to grow. So it's just a big expansion, which I think is in the end a good thing,

but it doesn't come without, you know, holdups and speed bumps and things like that. Yeah. I, Tatum, you'll be happy to know I'm working on a model right now that is absolutely going to wreck anybody Pupco larger on a grid. It's kind of a hybrid setup type of build out in regards to a data center, but essentially utilizing a small fraction of the power from the data center, let's call it 5% with the specific application of certain type of text deck. I can offset the cost of the other 95% of the operation to the extent that you can put any ASIC in there

Indefinitely, regardless of network difficulty level, and it will still, you will still be able to keep all that Bitcoin from that and remain solvent under any circumstances. Interesting. We'll have to hear more. Maybe this will be the reason. You might need to talk after this. Well, like, you could put S-9s in there right now and run them all at 10 cents a kilowatt-hour. and still remain solvent with what I'm trying to build right now. Awesome.

Well, that's maybe this will be a subsequent topic for another episode, I suppose. But, I want to keep it with you because I'm going to put a ball. Yeah. I'm going to put a bow on Tatum's topic, but I'm going to funnel directly into your topic. I'll key you over the same question. Why are you bullish? Excited to hear it. Well, it kind of is in line with what Tatum said.

PLEB miners, every year I see more of them implementing S-9s and M-20s, M-30s for heaters. I see people that I've never seen before in the space, you know, buying A-6 and deploying them for other purposes just besides, you know, mining, like if you're heating a water heater, heating their ducousy, creating heat for their house. It's application of this is on the rise and that just further decentralizes our hash rate. And then we have, you know, the guys that at BitX that are putting out what would appear to be like a hobbyist type of device. But these things have proven that they can hit a block recently. So that's going to drive adoption of these types of things for people who aren't having access to 240 volts power and they want to be involved. They want to learn and seeing more people putting together devices like this and marketing them makes me extremely bullish.

And it makes me really happy to because the individuals out there who are, you know, that are doing this, that are. that are buying them they're actually a lot of them don't necessarily know anything about mining and this gives them a cost-efficient way to learn about how these things work in regards to our network and bitcoin as a whole and so i feel that the more education and knowledge that's out there and the more people that are involved in obtaining that it's it's just overall better for the entirety of Bitcoin. And so it's these recent developments and you know, people that are grinding to get this type of these type of products out there and seeing so many people just go out and jump on top of them like these bit axes sell out like that.

So they can't keep they can't make enough of them fast enough. And so I in the beginning of the year said that we would hit a Zeta hash by the end of the year. So I should have jumped in on that bet with you and Adam. But I never had a doubt in my mind that that would happen. But seeing things like this and seeing more people become involved from different levels, just it makes me so much more bullish. Well, I love that. And again, to the, to the like say, Bitax, like these types of products, it makes

it so that, you know, before it would be like, okay, well, you know, somebody just takes a literal S-9 and just like add some different fans and then shoves it in a 3D printing case. But these are different, right? Like this is taking like and like taking a large but relatively newer, efficient ASIC and taking those chips and like creating a smaller device that is still equally effective. efficient, but using less power that enables these things to be able to sometimes hit a block, right? And so that's a whole different ballgame than just like cramming a large, previously expensive ASIC into an enclosure, right? Yeah.

I think they use different chips across. I got a little lost whenever they started coming out with newer models. But, I mean, I think I want to say that I heard they were using. Dang it, I don't even know now, but it was at least a J-Pro chip the last time I heard of, but I need to look at what their newest newest ones are using. Yeah, they got a brand new one that just, I don't even know if you can get it yet. I was going to say I have a report to make on the original BitX that ran the S-17 chip. I have had that thing on forever now and it still operates.

So just want to give some accolades to the guys over there who are building because they build an efficient, you know, strong device. And I respect that highly because, I mean, as a what's minor maximalist, I'm all about quality in regards to my ASICs. And the way that they have put together this, it, you know, it's good quality. And the fact that I got one that is running an S-17 chips. And it's testament to how well they've designed and put out this device. Because the S-17 was the worst thing that Bitmain has ever produced. Even worse than the XP? Come on. Man, I mean, 60% of your fleet would fail after like four months with the AT-17.

So, and they just constantly find ways to not warranty anything. So, like, so many people went insolvent because of the T-17 and the S-17. But, yeah, I have one with what I have one of their original designs, and it still runs. Like, it's never been on. It's just goes. So kudos to those guys. also i wanted to say that the chip that i i was thinking about saying was from the s 21 i was like oh no that's what i thought no i read i thought yeah the one that they just announced uh like

the supra 10 days ago as 21 pro so they they're making bit action with bm 1370s at one to 1.2 tarash that's crazy jewels per tarahash yeah yeah 15 15 uh 15 which On scale, that is insane efficiency. That's crazy. Oh, yeah. Now I want one. It's worth it. On my desk here, it's, I need the newest.

I need the greatest. As you should. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. I guess my only question to you, Trenfellah, is if you were to encourage you, counter a bitcoiner, they've pretty much, like, they've only ever just kind of obtained, used,

you know, they've got Bitcoin wallets, things like that, but they've not set foot in the mining space yet. Is there kind of a default thing that you would say to, to get them to dip their toes in, like for this kind of plug mining stuff?

Or does it kind of depend on the person? Like, what's your response there? Well, um, I, I try to figure out who my audience is when it comes to somebody asking me, ask them, what is your motive for this, right? And then once I figure out that, then I'll kind of advise based on that motive.

So if it's profitability, then I tell them that, you know, you're going to have to become extremely creative. and you're going to have to learn how to do different things with this ASIC that may be outside the norm of just plugging it in and letting it go, depending on what their power rate is, because if offset cost of operations in power for implementing an ASIC for an alternative purpose, is money saved there, and that's SATs saved there.

And so then if it's not just about profit, then I'll tell them, You know, if you're trying to learn ASICs and prepare and about this in general, then I'll send them over to one of my vendors and say, buy this ASIC, you tell them that you'll take it used or even just buy a broken, a couple broken ones and then learn how to fix it yourself. And then like that's the main way to actually level up your skill in regards to Bitcoin mining is to take somebody else's loss that they weren't able to do it.

and you build it yourself back from that. And I've seen more people become successful with their mining endeavors by just buying something that's either broken already and then learning how to fix it, or basically I'll tell them to just buy something that's used and works and don't be concerned if you break it, you know, because it's already used. You might get it for $2 a tariff.

and so it's not going to be, you know, a big loss or anything. In fact, the knowledge that you'll gain through that experience is going to be more valuable than your investment was into the actual equipment. And so that's kind of how I lead people when it comes to how they want to get involved and what they want to know. I couldn't agree with that more because, crazy enough, the pill that I took to send me down this crazy rabbit hole of Bitcoin mining was searching for cheap ASIC miners for between two ASICs. And I ended up finding two S-7s on eBay, which S-7, I think is two or four tarahash, I want to say. And because like I literally just need something to look like it. I wouldn't go to like, you know, get an actual spend a couple hundred dollars. And you just need a

love exactly i saw two of these things for 40 bucks the guy was like hey i'll 10 extra dollars i'll throw in a third one i was like nah he's like all right i'll do it anyway so i had three s-sevans and i'm like i kind of want to figure out like how this works and just start tinkering started playing around with it and that literally like all it all you had i had to do was get my hands on an asic miner and if anyone ever wants to learn about mining that is my main thing that i always say is just get your hands on something, whether it is, I wouldn't recommend, you know, getting a brand new minor to learn about it. Go on eBay, find some scrap for under 50 bucks. You can still do that. And then next thing you know, you're going to try to figure out how to get 240 volt into your

apartment and, you know, no one's going to get for noise and stuff. Or they'll shut your electric off because they're seeing the meter spin and the electricity is included in the apartment and now you've raised some serious questions. Why is the panel off on your electric panel? What's going on here? What is that there? One last quick note on that. Last year, my first winter in Denver, I figured out that my rent was all inclusive. And so I was like, of course, I'm going to figure out how many when 10 minors I can put it. I was plugging in all my S-9s. I plugged in a B-9. I plugged in a B-9. It ran it profitably. And then we got an email that said, hey, we're going to investigate this massive spike in electricity.

And we might have to increase rent next month if we don't come to resolution. I was like, I'm just going to push all this under my bed. Yeah, I have no idea what's happening there. That's crazy. You know, I was giving them a run. I was going to say what you do is you set up direct circuits wired directly into the split. pole breaker, a dual pole breaker, and then you just remove the panel completely, and then you just, you know, slot the breakers individually down the panel. And then whenever, like you said, when they

come, there's, like, it's just wrap it up and toss it under the bed. And you can usually expand those panels. You just have to make sure that you're conscious of the load itself and in the size of the panel, because you might have 20 or 15 breakers in that panel. And it's like you might have few more slots for more but the way they build electrical panels all those breakers aren't consuming at one time so if you actually know what you're doing in regards to electricity i would if i was yeah you want to be understanding what you're doing here else you could very easily end up smoking yourself right out of your boots um but um or consult with somebody who you know and trust verifiably can trust who's an electrician to guide you through how to set something up like this, there's a lot of

sets that can be had for virtually no cost. That's awesome. All right, well, gents, I'm conscious of time, I'm going to start rounding out the show here, but there's a thing that I like to do at the end of every show. Really, really simple. I like to just go round Robin one last time and just quickly ask each person for any final thoughts that they want to get off their chest, like kind of like a takeaway from the show. And then more importantly, perhaps a recommendation. And that recommendation can take really

any form. Maybe it's a good book that you read. Maybe it is an app or device that you played with. Maybe it is a life lesson that you've learned just in general. Anything that you think might be helpful in somebody's Bitcoin journey, a movie, a blog post you saw, anything. So I'll let you guys do with that for a second while I do mine. So my general, I suppose, takeaway or main thing that I want to pull from the show is people stepping outside of their comfort zones, I suppose, because that comes in with the mining. But it also comes in with the idea of beginning to use Bitcoin differently. than maybe you have before. And so I guess this kind of plays across all of them.

But you should always be trying to grow as a bitcoiner. Like try not to stand still. A lot of us will get to a point. We know are a few things that we know, feel pretty good about that because those were big hurdles to get over. But then once you're comfortable and you set up, you don't do anything new. You don't progress.

And so try to get yourself unstucked. from that point and choose an aspect of Bitcoin that is new to you that you can excel in. And maybe this is like upping your security game just around your stack. Maybe this is beginning to use it in a more day-to-day manner and like seeking out merchants or becoming a merchant accepting Bitcoin yourself. Or maybe it's some of this pleb mining stuff that we're talking about. Or maybe it's something like run a node. Whatever it may be, just don't.

don't sit there and be sedentary. Go out, learn, and level up because it's always gratifying when you do. Always be learning. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And in terms of recommendation, I'm going to say, just on the topic of the Pledliner things, the nerd acts that I got over here was a lot of fun to set up. I did do a video on it.

So if you want to try one of those out, check them out. And the other one, the tiny, tiny one that's really cheap is the nerd miner and also a great learning tool. Just to kind of like tinker and see how it works. Definitely worth peeking at. So those are fun because they run on Wi-Fi too. Yes, exactly. Yeah, that makes them pretty simple. So yeah, with that, I'll toss it over to Raj first.

Any final thoughts, takeaways that you wanted to reiterate? And if you have a recommendation, that'd be awesome too. Yeah, thanks, Ben. I think it was really great to learn more about solar mining, plant mining. Really excited about that. One thing that I would like to share, which, you know, I kind of have more conviction about is is that we may not repeat exactly the same Bitcoin, you know, cycle of, you know,

quickly pumping up and then, you know, crashing down 80%, maybe not this time. Yeah, I believe all the CTF and financialization, more liquidity and people being able to speculate on the derivatives instead of, you know, kind of, you know, buying it directly would help taper the pump and will provide a cushion or a bottom to the crash. And we might see more gradual and sustained, you know, trend of Bitcoin with lower volatility overall. So really looking forward to that. And yeah, I would say in terms of recommendation, the broken money book by Lean Alden.

I definitely strongly recommend that awesome book. I got it up on my shelf, you can't quite see it. I'm honestly really shocked that he didn't say, I recommend speed wallet. And the volatility is part of the fun, sir. Raj recommends you're faster taking those sats next to them. He recommends being ready with your speed wallet whenever there's a giveaway.

Yeah. That was all right. I respect the hell out of that, Raj. I also love the, like, pleasant sound that played as they were snapped away. I do like the sounds in the wall. It's great. Awesome. Well, thank you for that, Raj.

I appreciate it. And Tatum, I'll toss it to you next. Any final thoughts, takeaways, and a recommendation that you got one. Yeah, so I'll go ahead and preface what I say with this. I'm a comedian. I make jokes all the time and I talk in satire. So think about that whenever I say things. So the first thing I'll say is sacrifice convenience until then you're not free.

The second is oil your kill switches. It's better to have them and not need them than need them not have it. And then my recommendation comes from a lyric in a song, one of my favorite songs by Kevin Gates. It goes, I got two phones, one for everyday activities, and one in case I need to pick my death. So that's my recommendation. And remember, I'm just a comedian. Silly. But also, another recommendation that's a little more serious to go to, like I said, go on eBay and find an ASIC minor for under 50 bucks that, you know, even if it's just for parts, do it.

And actually get it in your hands, take it apart, see if you can put it back together. because that will unlock so much potential that you may not have know that you have. Like, before I started into mining, I honestly kind of wanted to push it away because it was just like super confusing. I saw people like, H.T. I'm like, I can never be him. And then I went down the rabbit hole and realized I don't want to do anything else with Bitcoin. So it's also just a good skill set to have. That's awesome. Love it. I'm going to toss it to you then. Final thoughts, recommendations is all you.

Final thoughts is that I have to see how things are progressing in regards to mining. And a recommendation is like Tatum said, go ahead and get an ASIC and then find a way to offset your costs. Don't be a cuck to just profits only, like Pocco's. And know, just know that the obstacle is the way. Hey, winter's coming up, baby. Winners coming up. Awesome.

Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me on this show. It was a blast. I had a lot of fun. Everybody that's watching, make sure you check down below. give these gentlemen a follow to see what they're up to do. And I'll just leave you guys by saying you're all welcome back anytime. Thank you, sir. Thanks for having to spend.

Appreciate it. All right. And everybody watching, thank you for being here. Of course, again, follow everybody that was on the show. They are down below. You can check them out there. Do those other great things, like subscribe. share they all help the show you want to help out the show as well previously mentioned sponsors are down

below and the last thing i'll toss out there is if you've been uh checking through the channel doing the tutorials and everything and uh you're you're leveling up but you've hit kind of a block and you're trying to learn more but there's there's something that you can't quite get around um be sure to reach out to my team over at bitcoin mentor.io we've aggregated uh a incredible team of educators that are waiting there to help you through anything, whether it be as simple as wallets, to hardware, to multi-sig, to lightning, to running a node, home mining, like we discussed, all those great things. You can reach out, again, Bitcoin Mentor.io. You can have a free 15-minute call to chat about what you might be looking to learn about. And then if it sounds right for you,

then you can go ahead and book your first session. Anyways, with that, I am out. Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, and I'll see you guys next time for your daily session.