BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH: Vivian C, Vee, Gary Mahmoud ep419

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

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What is going on, everybody. Welcome to the show. Another Thursday this week, day early, because I'm flying tomorrow, but another episode of Why Are We Bullish. We've got an awesome panel, very excited to have them all. A returning guest and a couple brand newcomers that I'm very happy to have. So we'll grab them in here just momentarily. I hope that you guys are all having a great week as well.

It's been, there's always plenty to talk about. So we will get into it momentarily. but of course this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live.

The fucking thing sucks. If you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share all those things. They help a ton getting this content in front of more eyeballs. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a quick look at where we are on the market.

right now. I'm bringing up timechain calendar.com and simultaneously I'm going to bring up the live chat. Everything you say in the chat from here on in is live for the world to see for better or worse. Back to time to calendar. We're sitting at $68,421 per coin. A single US dollar will snag you 1,462 sats fees. Next block, 26 sats per byte, rather, anytime fee eight sats per byte and in terms of Bitcoin mind, that's 19.71 million of them, 93.84% of the total supply. Quick shout out to sponsors of the show and then we'll bring in our guests and get ourselves rolling. Coin well is on a mission to enable independence by being one of the easiest and quickest ways to purchase Bitcoin in Canada and the U.S.

The best part about it, every buy goes directly into your own self-custody. They never hold your coins. You can add a Bitcoin address as part of onboarding. There's a transparent 1% spread, no hidden fees, no withdrawal fees, plus they have KYC free sales and bill payments on their website. They're also a publicly traded company under the ticker BTCW on the TSXV. Check them out over at Bitcoinwell.com. Check out my full tutorial on how to use them.

And you can check out the links in these show notes down below and sign up today. Linkai.com has some of the best hardware on the market today to secure your Bitcoin. The cold card queue is an absolute powerhouse and is my daily driver. And on top of this, they have plenty of other goodies including the Mark 4, the tap signer, open dimes, the block clock, and much more. If you head over to their website, make sure you use code BTC sessions at checkout to get a nice discount. Links are in the show notes down below. All right, let's get our guests in here.

and I can see that we've already got nearly 200 people between Twitter and the live stream on YouTube. So let's pump those numbers up. Let's give us a share and get everybody going. But let's welcome to this show. I'll bring them all in and we'll do some intros. I want to welcome Viv and V and Roger. I'm very excited to have you all. Thank you guys for being here.

Let's do a quick round of intros of who are you and what do you do. So I'll pass it to V first. Welcome to the show first off. give yourself a little intro. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me. And thank you so much for your tutorials. We've been really important in my self-custody journey and building and running.

No, it is. So I set on the Stack Chain Magazine core staff. Stack Chain Magazine is a physical print Bitcoin-only culture magazine that exists to give a voice to those who have opted out. It's filled with articles, art, and memes, four plebs, by plebs. I love it. And my very own, I'm going to call him my very own because he's like my first hire, but Selly is over there at Stack Chain with you guys holding down the fort, it would seem.

So is he good or is he like just crapping up the joint? Like is he a new thing? He's definitely a force of positivity, bringing us, you know, bringing us together, bringing clubs together and pushing the magazine forward and really supportive of all bitcoin businesses and artists so we're really lucky to have him and most of the most of the team are stack chainers so sely brings his unique perspective and we need that from him so we appreciate that he's part of the team love love to hear it yeah no he's an awesome guy well uh i'll toss it down to roger next roger good to see you We saw each other in person in El Salvador, but first time on the show here.

So welcome and give yourself a little intro, man. Did you hear me, Raj? Yes. Thank you very much, Ben. Really happy to be here. My name is Roger 9. I did. Yeah, yeah.

Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? me. Yeah, there's just a delay man, so it's okay. You guys are frozen. There's a delay. Okay, okay. Kenyon came, yeah?

Well, okay. I just in the private chat, I said I let Roger, I let him know to log off and log back in. But we'll jump to Vib next and then we'll get Roger in. Vivian, welcome back to the show. Good to see you again. Give yourself a little intro while Roger does his log-in, log-off. Of course. Of course.

Thank you for having me back. My name is Viv, a.k.a. Vtc. BF. I do marketing and PR work for Bitcoin companies in the space, and I'm the host and producer of the podcast called Live with Bitcoin, where we dialed into the human set of Bitcoin by chatting through personal transformation stories. I've just helped produce Bitcoin Asia in Hong Kong for Bitcoin Magazine. So that's a project well done.

And I'll be continuing leading the production side for that conference as well. Yeah, lots to do. Lots to happen still in the space. Thank you for bringing me back. Yeah, awesome. Sounds like you've been busy. That's great. I'm really glad.

I'm going to bring it. I see Roger backstage. I'm going to bring them back in here. Roger, do you got us? Oh, I don't know. The audio, I think, is quite. Here, well, what we'll do, we'll keep on rolling with him. I think we're not hearing his audio, but I'll do that backstage in a sec here.

But we're going to get rolling with reasons for being bullish here. I'm going to quickly let Roger know where the settings are for his mic and audio settings. But in the meantime, I'm going to get rolling with my reason for being bullish, and then I'll help Roger in the back end as we discuss a little bit. So I'm just going to quickly kind of go through a quick post on primal here, on our rather on Noster. and my reason for being bullish is in and around kind of scaling on Bitcoin and some of the cool tools that are being brought to light here. And I'm a huge fan of Mutiny wallet. And so I love the guys over at Mutiny. I love what they're building.

I like what they're able to do with the tools that we have today in making the transition of somebody that is just coming into Bitcoin accessible, in terms of transactionally and making sure that it is economical for them to receive their first, you know, dollar or something like that of Bitcoin, but then in the same app, be able to easily scale up to full self-custody when they're ready. And so I want to highlight something that they just announced today that I thought was kind of cool. So I'm going to bring it up here on my screen. This is Mutiny's Noster account, but they said announcing Harbour an e-cash desktop wallet for better Bitcoin privacy. So I'm just going to read through what they have here really quick. So they say privacy for common person is a value worth fighting for. When we see a lack of

freedom tools, we must build them into existence. They don't appear on their own. Much has been said about privacy at Bitcoin at the Bitcoin protocol level. For now, we build it on higher layers where we can be more nimble. E-cash is a tool available today that combines Bitcoin to bring new levels of common privacy. Cashew and Fetamint are two existing implementations we're interested in. Harbour privacy. All communication runs over Tor. Mutiny is not the middle of any connections or transactions. Funds in the wallet get a privacy score to show how the mints provide privacy over time. More to come on this in the future. And they say, instead of reliance, relying on a single mint with your funds, spread the risk over dozens or more.

Harbor manages this for you, showing you a single balance while connecting mince for you. A mint can go offline with minimal impact on you. It's automated. Running as a desktop app unlocks the ability to long running processes in the background. Move money in and out of mince on your preferred schedule to maximize your desired level of privacy. Harbor makes suggestions, but you are in control. move money in and out of Harbor using lightning or on-chain transactions. We love Bitcoin. We love privacy. We hope Harbor gives everyday people more privacy and peace of mind.

And I actually went and I downloaded it. It's still very early, but it's in alpha. And so I had to do some like command line stuff to install this, which I am not well versed on at all. But I managed to get it up and running. This is just like on like Cignet, which is just like, more or less test net coins, so it's not real value. But I'm starting to play around. So it's pretty cool. I'm excited to play with it. And I'm excited by the idea that we have new tools coming about that, again, one,

in the realm of scaling and two in the realm of privacy can help users from the beginning. And so the fact that somebody can boot up this wallet, send in a regular lightning transaction or a regular on-chain transaction, and once it lands in the wallet, they're getting privacy and they're getting cheap instant transactions. I think that's a fantastic thing. Of course, there's tradeoffs when it comes to fetaments, but they're trying to minimize those trust tradeoffs as much as possible so that when you're just using your spending. in cash and you have just a little bit of your stash in the wallet there. You know, that might be an okay tradeoff, especially just with the tools that we currently have at hand. You know, I'm excited to play with it.

So I'm curious your guys' thoughts on in and around like how important is Bitcoin privacy to you? What kinds of, you know, have you played with things in and around Bitcoin privacy? And secondly, have you ever played with Mutiny Wallet? So I'll kind of leave it open to anybody that wants to jump in and comment. And in the background, I'll help Roger as well. I haven't used Mutiny Wallet. It's come up in some of the conversation with our friends.

And there's been some conversation around the FedEx. And so I'm really curious for examples on how that could be used in community settings. Yeah, it's pretty cool. There's a lot of Fetamint talk right now. You're starting to see it get built in and baked into certain wallets. There's like the FETI app itself, but then Mutiny is using it as a backend so that you can just receive a lightning transaction right away and not have to get lightning channels and all that. They've done a pretty interesting job of it. And the cool thing about Mutiny is you can receive.

via lightning to a fetament. And then when you've got enough funds there where it makes sense to open your own channel, it's just like a single button to do that, which is kind of cool. So I'm, you know, I'm a huge fan of those guys. Yeah, very cool. Yeah. Viv, do you have any thoughts in and around this? Have you played with any, like, mutiny or any privacy tools previously?

In fact, I've, interestingly, I think I've met a few team members. of Mutiny in Madeira in March, and they seem very cool people. I haven't played around with it, and I may have to wait a little bit longer until they don't require any coding skills to get up and running. But I'm sure it's not that hard to manage.

I'm just very non-technical. And I think you absolutely have a point where we have so many amazing tools that are on the horizon, and how can we have them talk to each other, and how can we, as you, users to seamlessly use all of them and have a really great time supporting all these business on the ecosystem. And this is what I'm really looking forward to see in the next 12 months, 12, 12 months

to two years. And I think this is where a lot of businesses are thinking about the problem of how can we embrace the network effects and support all of these great tools that have different edges of their own and have them talk to each other. So as users, we can use them all, essentially. Yeah. I like something I want to tag on to that you said there, how all these tools can just, you know,

the idea of them just working together seamlessly of being able to send from one type of wallet to a different one without having to figure out how you're going to navigate that. I think we're starting to see that. I think lightning is the glue that holds all of this together, you know, going from on chain to lightning to fendiments to liquid whether any of those be custodial or non or community based i mean i i in a recent tutorial i think i was using was i i think it was even might have been mutiny um or some sort of other e-cash mic or some uh e-cash uh wallet or something but I was able to send from like cashew to mutiny to the Fetty app to Aqua which uses liquid. I was able to just string transactions together and none of the wallets even like it didn't matter that they were all using different backends.

They just, the value just went. And that was really cool to see and I think that's where we're headed. It's very exciting. And if you think about how many people, voluntarily give up their privacy for convenience. It's a real thing. And if we can somehow combine the two on the Bitcoin network and remove the barrier of entry of having to figure out

all these network and chain and those words that are just really intimidating for a starter, then the adoption rate can be exponential from there. Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm curious if Roger can, if Roger's mic is working, Roger, can you hear us? We can't hear you, unfortunately, not yet. Play around either mic a little bit,

but if I start hearing your audio in the background, then I'll swing you in. But there's a settings wheel down at the bottom, and then you can choose audio and play around with different mic options. But I want to address a comment in the side here. Does Mutiny use a different path than green? I couldn't move over.

of my mutiny seed on green. Yeah, it's a little tricky when you're dealing with migrating from something like green wallet to mutiny to all these different wallets. And this will probably be the next thing to tackle. I'm glad that you mentioned this, Matthew. But the tricky bit is all these wallets are using different things in the back end. Like how green wallet works is going to be quite different from how mutiny works to compared to something like Phoenix.

And if there's a seed that's associated with like lightning channels and then there's a seed that's associated with a sediment and then there's a seed that's associated with like a liquid wallet, it's not exactly going to transfer over seamlessly. And so maybe in the future there'll be something like, oh, I have a seed phrase and it might ask you a quick question of, hey, what wallet were you using? previously and then it will intuitively know what to do to transfer over those funds appropriately. I hope that it gets to something like that or even less where it'll just kind of check a bunch of different standards and then say, oh, there it is. And then pull in the balance into the appropriate

backend. But that will take time. Yeah. So it makes sense that it wasn't super seamless to just transfer over your seed. But transactability, I think, is pretty. much getting there. So I'll double check on Roger here. Do you have audio yet? No dice. No dice. I don't know what happened. We could hear him before. It's okay. If all outs fails, well, if all outs fails, we'll bring him on again for sure. That's okay. But he's just in the back end here. Roger, give me, give me a quick hello. No dice. No dice. Nothing. That's okay, Roger. What we'll do is we'll get you on, I'll get you on another show here as I know, he's dying. Roger, we'll get you on another show and we'll play around with your audio and we'll get it

working. But we'll, we'll do it ASAP. We'll do it in the next few weeks here. We'll find a, we'll find a slot and we'll get you in. But Roger, I'd very much appreciate you. Roger killed it in El Salvador. He did a set on stage for everybody and the like people were going in. insane. If you've not seen Roger on stage, it is a sight to behold. It's magnificent. So anyways, Roger, I'm so sorry that your mic was not playing well for you. But we will get you on for sure, man. I'm saying, Roger. It's all good. That's all good. Well, I'm going to put a bow onto my topic here. Everybody in the chat also, give Roger a little hello and his his handle is in these show notes as well so give him a follow so that when he's on next time he'll you can make sure that you tune in for him because dude's a legend all good

all good cheers roger i know he's dying that's okay we're gonna we're gonna jump to the next topic though and um i'm i'm gonna say uh everybody in the chat of course keep uh keep those likes those shares, everything going on. But I'm going to, V, I'm looking at you now. And I'm going to say a quick, I'm going to say a quick, why are you bullish? And I'm going to let you take it from here. And yeah, what's on your mind? What's exciting for you? Yeah, thanks. I thought if you guys can hear this time, so if I get distracted, it's the store. I'm bullish on the continued growth of those stackade magazine. And our fourth print, Third full issue titled Log 4, which is going to be available July 18.

Our print size of 210 copies of our previous issues all recently sold out. And so with Log 4, we've had to broach subjects around related growth and specifically print size. We've witnessed the magazine go to the secondary market as Club started to hold all, like, hoddle the magazine's collectibles. And so Block 4, which is our second anniversary issue, will be the first to go to 420 copies. And I have high hopes that all the magazines will be opened and enjoyed with an extra copy, purchased to treasure for those who want. Thank you. Dotchammagism.com.net also works.

So we're really inspired by the bitcorners who reach out to us to contribute to. to the magazine and as interest in contributing grows, our excitement to be a place to feature the best artists and writers in the Bitcoin space just feeds the overall momentum of the project. Some of the contributors for Log 4 include Maxis Club who designed our front cover featuring some stackchainers and stack chain magazine clubs on the bridge of our Citadel spaceship,

boldly stacking where no one has stacked before. And Manifesto will be on the back cover. Art by Flo Montoya will be there, an interview with Lena Sash with a little hodler comic, an article by artist, Hodel X-hold on the experience of Bitcoin Atlantis, and several point of view pieces by some of our core team and their spouses that traveled to El Salvador for the having party

and those that have been involved in stacking sats on the chain for the last two years. Since actually July 18th date is also the second anniversary of Stackchain, which is a really long Twitter thread, of N plus one Bitcoin buys and means, which to date has collectively stacked over 8 million USD in Bitcoin, which at an exchange rate of 69K, USD is about 116 Bitcoin in the diamond hands of clubs. So being bullish on Stackchain magazine is also about being bullish on my friends

on bitcoins who are building, meaning, creating art, and sharing their voice. As part of the stack chain magazine crew our team of 12 mostly stacked the bearer of 22 together and they include loco who's a musician meamer and creates original uh bitcoin only content and music anthony our pleb wrinkler and stack chain spaces host sally who we talked about a little earlier sidak or creative director robert our strategic advisor tachira our head designer waldo our lead editor an author of charts for pre-pointers, Sat Porter, our technical advisor, John, who is our proof of ink entrepreneur and distributor of Stackchain magazine, George, our chief, our chief initiator, and Bob, our Stack Chain Fire Starter. So the magazine operates by consensus. There are no ads or sponsors,

which allows us Max Freedom, and I think lends itself to the irreverent vibe and punk rock undertones of the magazine. We use a three of six multi-sing Bitcoin treasury, which uses Munchuk's collaborative wallet feature. The funds that are raised through the sale of the magazine cover our printing costs, supplies, and the gifts that come with the magazine. And a small portion of the profit currently goes to Tchira, our lead designer. As we grow, we hope to offer shares of our profits to our contributors. So Stackchain Magazine is a project that grew from our friends. and having fun, stacking stats together. And so our larger community of stack chaners

contribute content every issue and notably the means, which are pulled directly from the chain and give you a sense of what we're about and what makes us laugh. Log 4, you can find us in person at the club party coming up, Pianey Lane, Pocket State, Wine Mixer, anywhere the NoHughan is, their Twitter handle is at NoHugh

at proof ofink.com, stackchain.net. And really on our stackchain magazine.net or dot com site, you can read some of the articles that have been published. I love it. That's kind of cool, too, that you guys, again, it's all done through consensus. And, you know, there's, there's, you're not, you're not held to, you know, sponsors and things.

things like that telling you what to do and you basically just publish what you actually want to publish you're not beholden to anybody really cool that you guys are using the nunchuk three of six for the the treasury the the um just your region multi-sig thing that's that's super awesome and the nunchuk guys are are killing really well as a collaborative wallet it's been pretty fun especially since all of us you know live in different locations to have that kind of convenience like you all discussing earlier. Yeah. Yeah, it's super awesome. I also got to give Sally a shout out because he made,

I wonder if it's up here yet. I don't know, but he made a shirt. There we go. There's a, he made a Sessions shirt with the BTC Sessions Shades, which I've got to, I got to get my hands on one of those. And I think, I think he's got another drop. coming at some point with another session shirt. So I'm looking forward to it.

But yeah, you guys are, I got my first round of issues, Selly, I ordered some and he shot them over my way and they are proudly on my shelf now as my collectibles. So I'm very excited to have them. Awesome. Thanks for reading them. They're really, really beautiful. I get really excited to be part of this project with my friends.

Yeah. It's cool that there's so many creatives in Bitcoin. And I think we see it in many different ways, right? We, whether it be articles or whether it be actual physical art, or whether it be creating videos and things like that. And I guess to kind of segue and get VIV's take on, on, you know, Stackchain, but like, I guess broader speaking, if you haven't, you know, yet had the pleasure of having a pristine copy of Stackchain magazine on your shelf, which you should do.

Maybe your take on kind of that broader, you know, creative people in Bitcoin, what you've been seeing in and around that. 100%. You know my drill. I'm all about like the human side of Bitcoin and the cultural set of Bitcoin. And this is something I've been really glad. see in the past, increasingly so in the past 12 months how create, there's so many more creatives are starting to come in the space, contributing their expertise, contributing their

arts and creative work. And there's, we're starting to see a cultural shift between, from talking about technology, talking about tutorials or economics to something, to, to a broader set of content where we talk about life, we talk about music and build, build arts on top of the Bitcoin standards. This is something I'm really excited to see. We just had the virtual creator summit hosted by DJ Valerie B. Love last weekend and that was a huge success. There's so many people tuning in and the insights coming from creatives in the Bitcoin space were incredible. And they've walked a path of building a voice, making it a business, using all the tools that are building on Bitcoin standard. And it's incredible to see us getting together and share those values up front.

And if you're a creative or thinking about being a creative, either in the Bitcoin space or not, maybe this is or take this as a side. Like start working on something right now. You don't have to wait to achieve your dream in the future when you have enough Bitcoin. and we all know that's never going to happen. But oftentimes it comes down to that leap of phase. It comes down to that having the courage to get started somewhere and don't be afraid of not being perfect. Perfect is a myth and we all improve so much along the way with our creative work and just work in general. So if you're a vid, creative, coming into the space, take us a sign to start,

I mean, broadcasting your arts and your music and your creative work into the world. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Man, some of my videos sucked when I started. They were so bad. But, you know, over time, again, you're right. Perfection doesn't exist. People that really look like they know what they're doing is because they've done all of the wrong things leading up to that to learn what not to do.

And it's a process over time. Like, you know, there's every time I think I put together a tutorial after it goes up, I'm like, oh, crap. I forgot to put that one thing in or I said something slightly wrong or like, there's always something. But you're right. Just start doing something, getting it out there and iterating too. Like don't just get stuck in the same kind of thing. Try and level up a little bit over time and add new things in, try new things always. you know it can be daunting but it it builds and and you get pretty good after a while as long as you put in put in the work in the elbow grease right

yeah for sure i've been really inspired to see um all the different art menus be so accessible to creatives because i feel like that really inspires people to go ahead and and make something and submit it and i hope that that that I mean, I see it continue. I hope that we see it more print. It's nice to have, it's nice to see the creative efforts of people in the physical world, especially since, like, I spend so much time on, you know, interfacing with my screen. So just to switch over. So that is a gift.

So I agree with you. Yeah, yeah. I've got in the realm of again the the the physical world and I guess we're you know in the vein of people being creative and and and making things for others there's there's something great earlier on tonight on God I'm trying to remember what the the auction the art auction site is scarce dot city are you guys familiar with fractal encrypt the the Bitcoin artist that made the big dial that Sailor has in the background. And he did a really cool one for Madeira that was all reflective in glass and everything.

But there was, he made these really cool. He made 21 of them, but there were the, or 21 or 210, I can't remember. But there are these mirrored keys with a backing. and they're all numbered and everything, and it's supposed to be like a, you know, private key type thing. Anyways,

they're really, really awesome. And one went up for auction, uh, tonight. And actually I tried to throw in a couple bids on it, but, uh,

it escaped my, my threshold of what I was, what I was about to spend. But I think Nico from Simply was also in their bidding. Um, and then somebody ended up taking it, uh, this,

this piece for, I think, 3.3 million sets, something like that, which is pretty solid. But he, his glass, a circular kind of dial that he made for Madeira, that thing went for many Bitcoin. I think he, I think he, I think I saw tears in his eyes. I think he had, he woke up and he had a good cry over that when he realized like, you know, that that was going to go for that price. But, you know, hats off to fractal. And again, like anybody making cool things in the Bitcoin realm, again, I think if you put

in the work, it does show through. And over time, people begin to appreciate it. And, you know, it's not easy, but you can get to a point where if you're creating something of value, people will recognize it. So yeah, I'll say that. But Viv, I want to double check. I didn't like steamroll your reason for being bullish by by signaling into the artistic stuff. Did I? No, not necessarily. No, not necessarily. But yes, actually along the line. So you're good. Okay. All right. So I'm going, I'll then I'll cue you up with the same question. And I will say to V, thanks for your reason and for highlighting all the stack chaners that are in the chat right now.

I got to meet SIDUC down in El Salvador when I was there for the having party. And I see a bunch of stack cheners in here as well. But yeah, well, I think we just got some, V just got whatever lightning strike that just cut her connection momentarily. But either way, Viv, I'm going to toss it to you, and I'm going to cue you up with your actual reason for being bullish. So I'll let you take it away. All right. Well, this time I'm on why are we bullish? The reason why I'm bullish is how there are so many mentions of Bitcoin that are coming from the world that is outside of Bitcoin.

So mention of Bitcoin just everywhere and random places where you don't expect them. to be there and then they're right there. And then you're like, wow, this is where we are now. And now I'll go into a little bit details on this. And I don't know if anyone watched the series on Netflix called Beef. This came out a while ago, quite a while ago. And it became, it kind of went viral and it became really popular. And a lot of people were talking about it.

And in that TV series, Bitcoin Prize actually served an important plot twist. of how Bitcoin price went down and then the main character lost a lot of money and needed to go do something. Of course, it was kind of portrayed in that little bit negative light, and then it was during the bear market. So it was an accurate representation of the Bitcoin Prize at the time. But still, it served as a main plot twist of why and motivated people to do certain things that they probably wouldn't be doing otherwise. And then another example, even just this past months, sometimes when I tune into like terror reading, terror readers on YouTube and talk mostly for positive intentions because you cannot be giving off a really bad reading if you want subscribers in a way. So mostly for positive intention sometimes. And even this past months, I've heard three different mainstream YouTuber who are tarot readers mentioned Bitcoin.

And they seem to make distinction between Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as well. So they would talk about how the next month for certain signs and how their finance will evolve. And they will talk about, you know, this is a good time to invest. And they talk about maybe that's cryptocurrency and maybe that is Bitcoin for you. They would actually make a clear distinction between Bitcoin and crypto, which is great to see. because even though a lot of people in our space don't necessarily make that distinction, and this happened to three tower readers that I tuned into the past months, and all of them have more than 100,000 subscribers on YouTube from like a global scale.

I think this means something, this means something, and especially when we work in the space And then when we're not expecting something, when we're just consuming content online, we're just walking around in the park, we're on the street. We don't expect to see a Bitcoin sign every single shop we pass by. We don't expect a TV series actually talk about Bitcoin to the extent that we understand it. But I'm starting to see more and more mainstream content in general, starting to make mentions of Bitcoin,

starting to use it as kind of a plot twist or use it to push how the plot, lot would progress. And I don't know a lot. I don't know about other people. And I had people who disagree with me. And I want to hear your thinking, Ben, on this. I do, I personally believe in their exposure. I believe in their exposure effect.

And I think for most people, if they see something outside to an extent that they get familiar with it, then we're all humans. And then the emotional gravitation towards something that's familiar, it's always going to be there. And a lot of some people may say that oh, that's like bullshit. You cannot just like something just because you see it enough. But personally, I think that's there's a grain of truth to that at least. And if more mainstream content or just random YouTubers mainstream talk about just different things, travel, food, talk about like tarot cards, then people are going to start getting curious.

Yes. People are going to start getting, oh, like if you're saying that this is a good month for investing, then you mentioned this Bitcoin thing. So what is Bitcoin? Right? Like, how can I make some money? And it's that simple. So this is why I'm bullish to see more and more Bitcoin mentions outside of our Bitcoin little bubble on Twitter and beyond. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're absolutely right in that people, even myself, I required multiple touch points of seeing Bitcoin. I mean, it was a little, I was curious in the first place, but it took me seeing it multiple times, you know, over an extended period of time to start

to say, yeah, maybe I'll take a peek. And it's, you know, it's, you get a little curious or or whatever, but it also does kind of change minds just the familiarity, right? Like, it's, it's no longer like, ah, that, you know, I, you hear about it once. That's probably a scam, whatever. And then, and then you dismiss it. But just seeing it in very different places and, and perhaps seeing it from somebody that you, you know, watch or frequent their content for an entirely different reason. And then Bitcoin gets brought up.

And you go, huh. Well, if this, if this other person that I really enjoy what they think about, these other things, and I enjoy their other content is interested in Bitcoin, then it stands to reason that maybe there's something of interest there for me as well. And I think we see a lot of that. You're right. Like it's to the point now where it's kind of popping up everywhere. Like back in the day, it used to be if Bitcoin was mentioned in one place anywhere,

Bitcoiners would lose their collective minds. It'd be the most exciting thing ever. Now it's like you miss them. You don't even realize, oh, so-and-so was talking about it, blah, blah, blah. You know, now it's entered, it's entered the vernacular of an election cycle, which is kind of what, like, I feel like I'm living in a simulation seeing those types of clips. You know, it's, it's mentioned in TV shows. It's regularly on the news. and it's almost like where Bitcoiners themselves are a little numb to it,

but the average person that hasn't touched Bitcoin yet, it's being normalized. I suppose that Overton window is completely shifting into, oh yeah, of course, Bitcoin exists. I don't have any, but, you know, I've heard of it. You know, maybe I'm curious. Is that what you're hearing from your, I imagine you have a swath of normie friends like myself? Do you ever, has their attitude?

changed a little bit towards it? Well, their attitude changed whenever there's a bull market, right? Like, they get a little bit, naturally, like the number go up, freedom go up, perspective. You are going to get most curiosity from the price, from the price going up. And that's natural in a way. And people, whenever it's full market, people are starting to fomo a little bit more. And I'm very, I think there's a lot to expect for this upcoming. market where we're seeing a lot of mainstream mentions where we are getting people curious

again with the price going up and we've and Bitcoin has done so much the past few years and the ETF is launched now you have institutional investors and people from all over the place starting to pay closer attention to Bitcoin then it's almost scary to think about what what it means for Bitcoin when all these people kind of rush into it at the same time. Maybe the 1 million, it's not that far from us. And now we're referring Bitcoin to like zero point, how many million and it's a genius move.

It's all about perspectives. I do like that. I do like that. The, oh, Bitcoin is only 0.069 million or whatever. I think that's a fantastic way of. of measuring it. It's so cheap. It's not even the full million that it's for sure going to be. Yeah, it addressed so much because there's one of the common misconception is Bitcoin is so expensive, right? Like why can I, why don't I buy $10,000 doge coins if I, 10,000 doge coins if I can only get like a little bit of Bitcoin? Like the the notation still makes a huge difference in human psychology. And we cannot escape how we're human.

And women as well just happen to that and change the, change the perspective of how we refer it and really kind of double down the potential Bitcoin where it's actually going to to most people. And don't forget and like I remind myself this all the time that we weren't at least I guess for all of the audience that are tuning into the show, they're probably not going to be they're probably not Bitcoiners since first. Let's face it. So there were one point where.

we were not a Bitcoiner and we had a life before Bitcoin and then now we have life with Bitcoin. There was a point where it required us multiple touch points to finally get curious with it. There were times where we were maybe ignorance of the whole Bitcoin world and we're not paying attention. There are so many people out there, they're almost same place and us Bitcoiners that if we're we're in this for a prolonged period of time, then we kind of forget that we were once not Bitcoiners. So when we tried to orange pill people, then we can show up as a little bit, kind of didn't have that perspective anymore and that can actually hurt the effort. We're trying to do orange peeling others and have that kind of concept in mind, have that

compassion in mind that they're walking they're on their past figuring out bitcoin and help them help other people at their level it's it's very important to orange pill others oh and the other sorry the other um bullish um reason why i'm bullish is next week it's gonna hit one year anniversary of live with bitcoin podcast so i've been doing that for a year um consistently and tremendous support coming from the community and thank you very much and that makes me bullish because now I feel like people are paying attention to life with Bitcoin, paying attention to how can we live better lives, better lives with Bitcoin. And the point is live and then the Bitcoin is a means to an end.

And Bitcoin is a tool that will get us to more happiness, freedom, connection, and all the good things. I love that. That's fantastic. Have you, I mean, you've had a number of guests on now. Have you had an interview that was particularly impactful for you that you really enjoyed? Well, they're all really, I have amazing guests who are very open to me. Because I ask personal questions and they opened up to me. And even we went through like even things like trauma and like truth and God and all these very heavy topics that they're just,

I'm just really grateful how honest and open they're willing to talk about stuff and record, right? And I would mention two of the conversations that I really resonate with coupled with the time, the kind of the set of puzzles I was going through at the time. First one is the one with Paco de la India. He traveled to 40 plus countries on Bitcoin and took him, I think, 15 months, more than 15 months. It was legend. And we talked about the power of manifestation. So we were talking about how to manifest things and the process from zero to one and how you make things happen just by your sheer whale and effort. He said he started the trip was $200.

And that was a and then he traveled 40 countries, 40 plus countries on funding from resourable. receiving support from the community. And that was mind blowing like $200 for 40 plus countries. You would never think that was something that's even possible. I would barely make it to the airport with this. Exactly, exactly. Case and point, right? And then the other one was really interesting with the most recent one,

was Ione Epoberg, a Swedish medical doctor. And then we talked about psychedelics. And then we also talked about, dug into one of his tweet on how to become attractive men. And then we were walking through all the methodology of, you know, the steps and what do you mean when you say these are the steps? And yeah, that was a great conversation too. Was one of the steps be Swedish?

Better. Well, I hope not because it's not a very populated country. But the four steps are, be comfortable in your own skin. Yeah. Know where you're going. Have fun while going there. And then the fourth one is Hidal Bitcoin. Awesome.

That's great. Great advice. Yeah. No, great. Yoni is awesome. I've met him a bunch of times. And I have his book on my shelf. actually right here i'm gonna i'm gonna give him a show uh i love the cover art for this one too uh it's

it's uh abundance through scarcity but uh really cool and i got the like the hard cover and everything um but it's uh he's a he's a pretty thought-provoking guy he's very interesting and very i think well-spoken um yeah i'm i'm super glad that you had him on so that's that's really cool and paucco Parker is awesome. Yeah, definitely. All of my guests are amazing, and you will have to come on the show sometime, Ben. Thank you.

I wish I could have more guests on and do more episodes because I have a two-week show. So it's every couple weeks. Some people call it bi-weekly, but bi-weekly also means something else, apparently. So it's every two weeks I release. So in a year, I actually can have, at most, 26 guests. Wow.

So it's a really, I wish I could do more on top of everything. But I'm having so much fun creating content. I knew I would have fun with it even before I started, but to have this much fun and to have this much growth and support from the community that's beyond my imagination. So thank you for everyone who tuned in and reached out personally that told me your feedback of the show. that's why I encourage everyone who have an idea, like act on it today. And oftentimes it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't come down to the skills.

It doesn't come down to the experience, but it comes down to courage. And it comes down to the power of execution and how consistent you can be. Act on your idea. Don't wait to achieve your dream. Start today. And you'll be surprised. Yeah. I would echo that absolutely.

Well, thank you. I'm really glad we got to chat a little bit about a couple of your guests there, too. Now, obviously, with this show, we have had a hell of a time because poor Roger with his mic, crapping out on him, and then V with the lightning strikes, taking out her power. She did message me on Twitter and said that her power went out. So, but we do have another guest in the wings here that last minute, I asked him if he wanted to join us. And he was more than happy to. He's never been on the show before.

But he's, he's an awesome dude. And I'm doing some work with him. So I'm going to welcome him up here. There he is. Good to see you, man. This is Gary, but I'll let him give a little intro. Gary, thanks for doing this last minute. I know it's just out of the blue, but I appreciate you joining us.

You can hear us. Your sound is okay. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah. Great. Yeah, it all works, I guess. You can hear.

You can see, that's pretty much the name of the game. No, I'm happy to help, man. I doubt I can offer anything as profound and as insightful as Vivian, but I'm happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, no worries. No worries. Yeah, we just, we had a hell of a time. One of our guests,

He does performances at Bitcoin event. He does music and everything. I got to see him in El Salvador. But he was on, and his mic was working before, and then it just crapped out on him partway through, and he didn't even get to talk on the actual show. And then V from StackChane magazine, she had a bit more luck.

She came on. She did her whole reason for being bullish and everything. We got through it. But then there's a big storm going on where she was. and her power just went out. So we're, you know, let's hope that, you know, you're really gutsy coming on here because anything can happen. Yeah, just assume that anything I say is exactly what both Roger and V would 100% agree with.

Yes, yes, exactly. So welcome to the show. I mean, I know you've never been on and I'll give the little spiel again so that you kind of know what's up. But more or less, each one of us kind of gives a reason for being bullish. Just something that we're currently interested about, excited about in and around Bitcoin. It's a chance to kind of rant about and get whatever offer chest that is currently kicking around in the old noggin. And then we just kind of do a quick little group discussion on what was said. So, Gary, I know this is the last minute for you, but I think you might have something that you're currently bullish or excited about in and around Bitcoin.

So I'll toss it over to you. Why are you bullish tonight? Well, I mean, I feel like I'm bullish because I can give you so many different reasons. You know, we could talk about, I guess, some of the latest news. There was that medical company that just put a bunch of their books up on Bitcoin. And for the life of me, I can't remember the name about off the top of my head because I'm a 46-year-old father with two kids and I just gave them dinner. But I was grateful and I put a little bit of money in that company is kind of a thank you. Just a tiny little bit of the stock just to say, hey, thank you for doing this and being on board. I did that with Michael Saylor and Microstrategies as well.

But I mean, gosh, I feel like I'm bullish just long term because I, there's part of it that's just hope. I have to be. I want to be for the future of mankind. You know, the Fiat currencies, they last, I think it's around 150 years or so on average. They kind of go up and then they go down. And every single fiat currency is prone to be. manipulated all around the world. And finally, for the very first time, we have something as everybody knows that it's verified, not trust.

We don't have to trust the people in the suits and ties or whatever costumes happen to be of the day, pulling the levers and telling you how much your dollars are worth or whatever else you have, shells or pieces of leather or whatever. This is something that's verified by everybody. So part of it is hope for my kids. I first bought some Bitcoin back in 2013. and there's a lot that I didn't know back then. And I've gone through the shit coin, forgive my French, the shit coin phase like everybody else has.

And over the course of reading, listening to Michael Saylor, Robert Breedlove, Safi DiNamus, I've really been, you know, 99.99% sure. I never say 100 for anything that it's the future. And part of me wants it to be, and most of me generally believes it'll be. but I wish I could tell you that I have some specific inside information of the latest thing. I don't. I just made my kids dinner right now. That's all I know right now. I love it.

I mean, you're right. It's the first time in especially in the realm of fiat currency. And even before, even when we had hard currency with gold, it was impossible. for any one person to independently verify the supply. It was more difficult for people to verify what they even held in their own hands and harder to secure it. And gold's physicality necessitated certain abstractions to be made

and those abstractions in the form of paper money. It was impossible to verify that the paper money actually was being represented one to one with what was supposed to. to be underlying. And we saw that with with with the rugpole that was Nixon. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's entirely different now. Right. Like you can still abstract Bitcoin and even you know to a degree some of the stuff I was talking about before with with like fettomints and liquid and certain things. They are you know, I won't mince words. They are

abstractions of Bitcoin. They are not, you know, you're not holding actual Bitcoin. if you've got e-cash in a in a you know an e-cash wallet even though it's denominated in sats but the the main difference there is that if if something starts to go awry it's you can actually see it happen in real time or or find out very quickly and it will be concentrated in in smaller pieces instead of an entire world relying on a single entity to remain true to their word, you know, you split up that risk if you're using things like that. And at the end of the day, if you choose to, you can default to the base layer. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, it's this huge phase shift in how we do money.

I don't think the world has any clue what has hit it yet. They're still figuring it out. That's the crazy thing. I mean, we all say we're all in the space. We all say it's still early. You know, I have friends that say, well, you, you know, you got in when it was at, you know, this amount of money. And it was a lot less back then. Well, it's too late for me. It's so not too late for you. The amount of people that I talk to who are incredibly smart people, definitely smarter than I am, who are very knowledgeable, professional people in their various professions, who are thoughtful people who have never been considered even buying on an exchange or buying an ETF or even dabbling it. they're just terrified of it. If all these people I know who really know what they're doing,

they seem to have good lives, they're responsible, they have good families, everything, if they're not in it yet, there's so much growth for this. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, I mean, we're in the very early innings, very early innings. It was, it was Mike, actually. So I guess I'll take a step back.

anybody I'm familiar, Gary is working with me at Bitcoin Mentor. And so, you know, in and around education. But I'm referring here to Mike Cook, who is my co-founder for Bitcoin Mentor. He was out just the other day. And, you know, he was out somewhere. And I can't remember exactly what he was doing. But somebody working at where he was buying a bunch of stuff, asked him what he did for a living. and he said that he, you know, he co-owns a Bitcoin education company.

And the response he got was, that's still a thing. And so, like, this is kind of where the average person is at. They might have seen it, but, like, you know, a lot of people still, like, it's not in their purview right now. It's not visible to them. And, you know, we can forget that as Bitcoiners that not everybody. has their finger on the pulse of what Bitcoin is doing at any one time. And it comes in waves, but it's just weird to think when you're in it every day, that there's people that just not a clue, not a clue, nor do they, you know,

they're upset about the current system, but they're not quite sure why. They haven't figured out what is actually wrong or if they're pointing fingers at something for being wrong. It's very service level. They have not done any digging beyond that. So yeah, I don't know. I'm curious to hear Vivian's thoughts on kind of where we're at currently as well. Interestingly, one of the YouTube video I was watching today, they were talking about a third way solution.

So what is the third way solution? So it's not this or that. It's a completely different thing that are just so out of whack that you would never have thought about, that are not even along the line remotely with the two options you had before, were multiple options you had before. So it's just solution out of nowhere, basically. And it reminded me of Bitcoin. It's not a Bitcoin video,

but I was talking about how in life we have these problems where we have options, and then we thought those are the options, the only options we had, but that's not true. Like we can have something as a solution that's just completely not on a different, not on the same scale and come in and serve the purpose and fix the problem. And I was thinking about Bitcoin and then the left and right parties and fighting over each other and trying to take control of a nation or the consensus and how Bitcoin just erode out of nowhere and be able to develop in a way that can have the potential to solve all

not have the potential to solve many of our problems that we're facing the society today. I would say it's so incredibly early, the fact that we're only at 0.069 million for Bitcoin price, like that's a good indicator, I would say. So that's why the, and that's exactly why the mayor exposure effect would work really, really well for the mainstream audience. It's over time, the more they see something, the more they will get interested and get curious. And it really depends on the day.

Sometimes they're looking. Sometimes their senses are open and they're taking signs from the universe. When they're seeing things, they're actually paying attention. But most of the time, we're not. We're just going by our lives and a little bit of autopilot sometimes

and we're not really thinking about what we're seeing around us. So you need to, it's a numbers game too, from a statistic perspective. you have to show up enough time to hit the probability where they are paying attention and where they are inducing thoughts of, and emotions of curiosity. And wait a minute, like I see this enough now. You need to hit a quantity to really have the qualitative shift in people's mind.

And it's true for everything else too. So we're actually, I would say we're actually very early. but I get that. I think that I'm into this way too late, but I'm also grateful to have gone into it the way I did with so much time spent on it and it's just really grateful to have stumble upon it to this point.

So in years' time, everybody will be all the same votes. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I, the nice thing, is, given how early we are, and Gary, I'm hijacking a little bit of your reason here, but I think it's an equal reason for being bullish in and around this, is that I've noticed a lot of people that come in brand new, they learn a lot quicker nowadays. They come in, they do their initial, like, you know, playing around a little bit of gambling and stuff, with all the alt coins and all that kind of stuff.

But then they managed to get focused a lot quicker. And I think that's a testament to the educators and the people that have come before. And, you know, I think Safedine is one of the people that really kicked that off by writing the Bitcoin standard. And, you know, that came out, you know, a lot of people, like I feel like it's been around forever, but it came out in 2018. You know, he wrote it through 27. And so like 2017 was was a year where there wasn't an extensive catalog of reasons why Bitcoin is different from other things. And Savadine really kind of booted open the door with that book and opened up a lot of people's eyes and just was able to do it in a very concise manner.

And from that sprung so many other resources and talks and videos and everything. And yeah, I think it's just an incredible. Testament to to what has been built in terms of concise educational resources over the years. I imagine you guys would echo that. Oh, yeah. There's so much you can go to. I mean, somebody, Bitcoin podcast, everybody has their favorites. But I mentioned some of mine at the beginning.

And I just, for me, it's a great thing. I'll put it on. I go for my walk in the morning, go for a drive. And I just, I learn. I learn as much as I can. And it's so, I mean, the word is so overused, but it's so democratic in the sense that anybody can just find the information. You know, to touch your fingertips, just go get it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, again, I know that this was a kind of impromptu and quick and disjointed episode given that we've had a couple of guests, have unfortunate circumstances. But, Gary, I do want to give a tip of my hat to you for jumping in and helping us with an additional reason for being bullish here. I know it was a quick, you didn't get the part. take and the other topics, but thank you for coming in. No, thanks for having me, man.

Happy to be of service. Yeah, and we'll get you on an actual full-length episode next time so that you can have a conversation. Maybe we'll get you and Roger and V all the same episode so you can actually hear from them as well. But I'm going to, you know, I'm going to start rounding out a little bit. But I like to finish each episode the same way. And usually that is with just any, any final thought that you might want to get off your chest,

but also with a recommendation. And these recommendations can take any form. It can be, oh, I watched or listened to a podcast recently. That was really good. I read a book, read an article, tried a new app, tried a device, or even just like a general piece of advice that may be helpful to those that have tuned in or listen later. And so I guess my final thought here would be in and around consuming content that that that that Bitcoiners make and and not always the same content, but branch out and listen to something that

you had you know, hosted by somebody you haven't listened to before. Read a book by somebody you're less than familiar with. Again, Viv, you brought up Yoni Appleberg, you know, give a read to his book, Abundance through scarcity, or take a listen if you have not yet to Vivian's podcast. You know, like branch out and listen to new sources in and around Bitcoin and you might find something that you quite like. So that's kind of my takeaway and my piece of advice rolled into one. But I'll toss it to Viv here and get your final thought or recommendation as well.

I'll first make a couple of echoes with your previous point. And now we have increasingly increased amount of educational content. And a lot of the things to you, Ben, like you've been so great at making tutorials for people like me who just have no clue when I have a new device and still need to goad through all of that. And you definitely make it a thousand percent. less painful than what it would otherwise be. So thank you so much for that. And speaking of consuming content, interestingly, a thought experiment I'm trying to do right now is to take an educated stance on if there's free will. And so I'm reading, like I'm reading a book and basically the 400 page book, excuse me, is talking about how, it's talking about how there's no free will.

taking a and I'm like listening to the audio book of something else to gain a different perspective so I can kind of pick my own stance. It's just and I think because now we know as Bitcoiners, Bitcoin has so many layers of meanings and how we can interpret Bitcoin in so many ways. And one thing I also love to do is to consume content and think about general questions in life and think about how does it echo with Bitcoin. Yeah. How Bitcoin, the Bitcoin, how the Bitcoin philosophy can be adapted into whatever topics that are just non-Bitcoin related and vice versa, right?

So it's a don't trust verify process, but with not just with Bitcoin, but with Bitcoin and everything else. And this is like pretty much life with Bitcoin, what life was Bitcoin is about. And I would say my piece of last note would be think about how, how. Think about how for those people, we are trying to orange pill. Think about how we can get them some Bitcoin to their name first. Psychologically, we are more tuned to losing something we already have than gaining something that we don't yet have. So if they already have some Bitcoin to their names, then they're like, oh, I have this. And what is it?

I better try, make a little bit effort to think about what is the same. that I have were to say the least to figure out how do I spend this as money and then they're going to realize oh I can actually spend this as money or if they sit on it for a while and then they're like oh it's going up like why it's going up and then they you want to lead them to a pass where they get curious themselves to because there's something at stake to their name so maybe we were when we're trying to entrepreneur give them not like five dollars not ten dollars if you know give them a significant amount, like let's say $100 if you can, or time block it, $50, where just an amount where they would feel like it would make it a worthwhile for them to

figure out at least how to spend it. And then they're going to figure it out from there. And it's going to be a spectrum. I think especially over time when we're seeing a major attraction of institutional and retail and more people coming into Bitcoin in general, it's not going to be. not all of them are going to be going down the Capitol and going O-in and don't have a chair, sort of thing. A lot of them will, it's going to be a spectrum where people still do that, but they are going

to be people that don't understand what Bitcoin is, but buy it anyways, just to see, oh, like, what's going on? It's why people buy Doge coins, why people buy other coins, Outcoin. They don't really understand most of them. I bet you, I kid you not, most people don't know what these things are. They've never read the white paper. They've never investigated all the utilities. So there's going to be a spectrum, and we need people on everywhere on that spectrum

to really have our community flourish the way we wish going forward. I like your tactic of, you know, give them some actual skin in the game, like, you know, that all of a sudden $100 matters to somebody. I know that you can't do that for every person. But to pair with your idea, Francis Pooley, I did a chat at the Canadian Bitcoin conference that I was at a couple weeks ago. And one of the things he said is he said that orange-pilling somebody is actually doing them a favor. And so, like, you know, and it takes time and takes effort. and like one of the only thing more scarce than Bitcoin is your time.

And so he said, so I now, I primarily all orange pill people based on like how much I like them and how much they bring value. And so if you really like somebody and you think that they create value in the world for other people, then yeah, maybe it is worth it to orange pill them and send them a hundred bucks and have them be like, oh wow, this is actually kind of interesting and start that those wheels turning. I think those two things paired together are great. You know, if somebody is like, you know, giving you hard time and is like in direct opposition to it and, you know, you're not even, you know, good friends with them, then yeah, don't send them $100. But if you care about somebody and you think that this would be good for them

and that they'll start to learn and they'll put in some effort, then absolutely, like go that extra mile. It's a really good karma to, successfully orange pills of mine, I would say. Yes, 100%. 100%. Actually, you know what? I was just talking to my sister today or the other day.

And she's now, you know, a few years ago, she was curious. And then she put in like 500 bucks. And now she's looking at it. She's like, oh, wow, this is actually worth a lot of money now. And like comparatively to what she put in. and now she's she let me she's like oh well it's it's gone up a bunch and I'm like well it's all perspective it was looking at the chart and she's like oh yeah it's gone up a bunch and she had it on like the one year and I was like okay zoom out and she's like well I need she zoomed

out to the five year I was like no really zoom out and so I got it to zoom out to like the whole the whole lifespan of Bitcoin so far and I was like do you see that little spike in and around 2017. She's like, yeah, I see that. I was like, well, at the time, that looked like the one in 2021 and kind of what's happening now because it's still kind of doing its thing. I was like, but do you see the one in 2013? And she's like, no.

I was like, well, there was one in 2013. If you look really close, there's a barely decipherable bump on that straight flat line. that looked like 2017 and 2021 back when it happened and so it's all a matter of perspective when you when you stay like oh it was so cheap in 2014 2014 it was like people were in despair you know because it had just been the end of 2013 when it was you know 1200 bucks and it went down to 300 or you know 200 or whatever it was you know It's all relative and people would absolutely love to get themselves some peak bull run Bitcoin from 2013 right about now. Sure.

Or peak bull run Bitcoin from 2017. People would love to buy the top of 2017 if they could have, right? Yeah. And I think we're going to see a repeat of those sentiments again and again. But Gary, I'll toss it to you for you. Your final thoughts, recommendations, anything that you want to toss out there that you think is worthy of people's attention. Well, real quickly to what Vivian said about, you know, throwing somebody 50 bucks or 100 bucks. I just did that for a very dear friend of mine.

He did me a favor when I was after a while came by, checked at the house. And I just, I gave him $50 in Bitcoin. And I said, you know, here you go. We talked about a little bit. And he's a very dear friend of mine. And I'm happy to give him 50 bucks more, you know, if it'll help bring him along this road. But the flip side of that is something that I've tried to instill in my kids. You know, we're sitting here talking and I assume a lot of the audience listening already is sort of pro-Bitcoin in a way.

But for people who maybe don't know much about it or maybe anti-Bitcoin for whatever reason they have, me, some dumb schmuck like me sitting here talking. He's not going to make a difference. You have no, you don't know me. You have no reason to trust me. I'm just some talking head on a screen. And what I tell people in this is the same thing I tell my kids, I want them to be. able to think for themselves. So that is the most important attribute that I try to instill into my kids. I have my own ideals, my politics, things that I believe passionately in. One of those is

Bitcoin. I don't want my kids to follow my lead just because I say so. I mean, I would love if they shared many of the same things, but I want to think for themselves and I want them to push back in me. So for anybody who I'd say, learn about Bitcoin, I could recommend things like we talked to before I mentioned Robert Breedlove and, you know, his nine part sailor series at the beginning of his podcast. You get to listen to Michael Saylor go on for, you know, 15 hours. Amazing things that come out of this guy's mind. You know, I learned so much listening to it. And that's great. And he's wonderful. So listen to that. Read books like the Bitcoin standard, but also go find steel man the best argument or arguments you can against Bitcoin. In all

sincerity, go find the best arguments, push back against it and see if those make more sense to you than the ones for Bitcoin because if you are going to get into this, I mean, I'd have to say, as cliche as it sounds, it should probably be for the right reasons. If you are trying to make a quick buck in Bitcoin, you are going to lose. You're probably going to get burned. I know I am not smart enough to time the market of when to buy and when to sell. But if you're in it for the long term, I promise you, you will be happy 5, 10, 15, 20 years down the line in these longer increments.

But again, don't take my word. word. Find the best arguments against it and think for yourself. Good advice. Your allocation of Bitcoin should very closely reflect your knowledge of it, I would say, you know, over time. As you become more familiar with what it is and how it can change the world and, you know, how likely it is to persevere through everything that gets thrown at it, you know, your conviction will become stronger and you'll, you'll, you'll likely have more and more of your net worth sitting in Bitcoin to the point where you're a crazy person like me that lives on it. So, you know, here's to the crazy ones, I suppose.

But with that, we're going to round out again, Gary, Vivian, and from afar, V, and Roger 9,000, that couldn't make it to the end of the show. thank you guys so much for coming on being a part of the show. I really appreciate both of you and I really appreciate Roger, who will be back and Vee, who, you know, was able to get her reason for being bullish out this evening and hopefully is weathering the storm at home. Thank you guys so much. You're welcome back anytime. Thanks, Ben.

Yeah, thank you guys. Thanks, Vivian. Nice chatting, baby. You too, Gary. Nice meeting you. Cheers. All right. everybody thank you guys so much for being here and being a part of the show and and and the various

guests that flitted in and out um of course be sure to smash that like button uh and follow and all those good things um and i'm going to do a quick shout out to our sponsors here for the end of the show but stick around because i'm going to chat about where i'm going to be in just a few days here So one minute and we'll be right back. Multi-sig and inheritance planning is hard to beat Nunchuk.io and their Honeybadger program. On your mobile device, they allow you to set up a full multi-signature vault.

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uh tomorrow evening with mrs sessions and we are headed to the oslo freedom forum put on by the human rights foundation uh out in oslo norway and uh this has consistently been one of the most impactful events that i attend each year um this will be my third time and also but fourth time at the Freedom Forum because they did one in Miami when the rest of the world was shut down. And yeah, I can't wait to go back. There's so many amazing human stories that happened at this thing and it's part of the reason why my wife wanted to be a part of it. It's going to be a very exciting time. Harrowing stories there, but one of my favorite things about it is that it is, it's not a Bitcoin conference, but Bitcoin is there because it's a useful

tool in the context of human rights. And so, yeah, I encourage you to watch some of the live stream and everything. And if you're going to be there as well, let me know. I'm getting in, obviously, a couple of days early and there are a couple of days later. And then I myself, my wife will be heading home to the kids as they're with the grandparents during this. But then I will be moving on to Prague, very excited to head back to BTC Prague. Man, what a beautiful city and what an incredible event.

The guys organizing this are, I mean, it went so well last year. And one of my favorite things about it was despite being a large conference, it was incredibly Bitcoin only and very focused on quality content. And I think they nailed it. They absolutely nailed it. So if you haven't gone, I highly recommend it. I'm going to be doing a keynote there. I'm also going to be doing a little chat about circular economies on one of the side stages as well. And yeah, so highly recommend if you haven't gone, you can find it on my website,

BTCSessions.ca, and that'll link to where you can go. But also, if you don't have tickets yet and you want a 10% discount, you can use a code, just BTC sessions. That'll get you 10% off. If you're one of those last-minute ticket buyers, But either way, hope to see some of you in Oslo or Prague or both. And it should be a really good time. And finally, Gary was on here.

He was too humble to bring it up, but he's part of Bitcoin mentor. And he is an excellent teacher, as are the rest of the team there. This is the company that I co-founded with my co-founder, Mike. And basically, you can go there. You can get one-on-one help with anything you need in and around Bitcoin. Of course, there's all the free tutorials on the channel. be sure to check those out. But if you need that extra handholding, if you need somebody to walk you through, there's no better than the people at Bitcoin Mentor. We had 350 people applied to be mentors. We

whittled it down to just 16 and they're top notch. So reach out, book a session, and they will help you with whatever you need. They can be found over at Bitcoin Mentor.io. And with that, I'm out. Have yourselves a wonderful rest of the week, a wonderful evening, a wonderful weekend and next time you see me well there's going to be a tutorial drop in tomorrow on an updated tutorial on mutiny i was ranted about them earlier yes because i'm currently working on another tutorial uh and then you'll be seeing some content come out from uh from oslo and prague which i'm very excited about as well so i'll see you guys soon have a wonderful evening and uh i'll see you guys next time for your daily session huddle by bitcoin