BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Yusuf Nessary, Isabella Santos, Joe Carlasare, Sam Callahan ep248

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/YusufBWB https://twitter.com/isabellasg3 https://twitter.com/JoeCarlasare https://twitter.com/samcallah 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shakepay is the easiest way to buy Bitcoin in Canada Sign up now and get $30 free after your first $100 purchase! https://shakepay.me/r/BTCSESSIONS LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $10 free with a savings balance of $75 or more for 15 consecutive days! https://start.ledn.io/btcsessions Keystone Wallet: secure your Bitcoin! http://bit.ly/KeyStoneSessions BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards, earn sats back while you shop. https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 BITCOIN tips: https://strike.me/btcsessions

What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show, another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? We've got a jam-packed panel this Friday. Lots of phone people on here coming to chat about what they're excited about in Bitcoin. As always, this is live. Anything can happen, so I defer to my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. We'll do it live.

Do it live. I'll write it and we'll do it live. sucks. If you have not already, of course, like, subscribe, share, all those things, super important. And let's get this thing rolling. I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. All right, before we bring in our guests, let's take a look at where we are in the market right now. Bitbo.com. We're sitting at 46,381, 97, 85. It's all over the place. Dollars per coin. A single U.S. dollar will pick you up 2,155 sats, 90.48% of all Bitcoin have been mined. I will note, little side note,

everybody was celebrating the 19 millionth Bitcoin having been mined a tad early today. A lot of these reporting sites are a little bit different. So the only way you would know that is if you actually ran the numbers on your node, you can do that. It's a simple command. But anyways, maybe I'll make a video on how to do that soon. Other than that, in terms of fees, a little high. Damn, 17 stats per byte for the next block. But if you're patient, about an hour, one sat per bite, should do you. Shout out to sponsor the show, Shepay.com.

If you're in Canada, easy way to stack sats. You can do e-transfers, no deposit, or withdrawal fees, thin spread. And there's a link down below. If you use that link to buy your first $100 with a Bitcoin, they will give you $30 for free. Same deal if you refer friends. and you can shake your phone every day for free sets. They also have a Satsback Visa card. Be sure to check them out.

Again, links below. lend.io, you can use your Bitcoin for a ton of different things, in particular if you're in a pinch and you don't want to sell your Bitcoin, but you need dollars. You can use their Bitcoin back loans, deposit Bitcoin, dollars to your bank within 24 hours, pay back the dollars, get back the same amount of Sats. They also have savings accounts for Bitcoin in USC,

and they have their B2X offering if you're feeling bullish. You can check them out down below. Bit refill makes living on Bitcoin super easy, I would know. Tons of different gift cards and you can get them all with Bitcoin, both on-chain and lightning. You earn SaaS back as you shop and you can earn even more SATs back with the referral program. Check them out. Keystone, one of my favorite and most used hardware wallets. It is 100% air-gapped, meaning you never plug it into anything internet connected,

all offline via QR code. That keeps the keys to your money, safe and away from internet connections. Highly recommend upgrading to the Bitcoin-only firmware, and it works beautifully with Blue Wallet, Sparrow, Specter, a ton of different ones, and it's awesome in a multi-sig as well. So be sure to check them out. And finally, if you're backing up any important Bitcoin wallet, get it in solid steel.

Pieces of paper, don't cut it, friends, you know, fire damage, water damage, all that stuff. I've heard horror stories. So get it in steel. This is how I back up all my important stuff. Privacyprose.com. Check them out. With that, I'm going to stop my ramble.

I need to bring in my guests. We got Sam, we got Isabella, we got Joe, we got Yusuf. Welcome, everybody. We've got some smiling new faces here. So I think we'll start just by doing a quick round of intros. We'll let people know who you are and what you do. So Sam, I'm going to start with you. Can you do a quick little intro for yourself?

Yeah, what's up, everybody? My name is Sam Callahan. I'm a Bitcoin analyst at Swan Bitcoin, and I do a lot of the research for Swan. I do a lot of the content. So a lot of the writing that you see come out of Swan. Usually I have a hand in that some way. And yeah, I just love Bitcoin.

That's what I do. Well, I'm, dude, I'm glad to have you here. Thank you for making the time. And next to Sam on my screen anyways, the lovely Isabella, I got to meet you last year at Bitcoin 2021. So can you let people know who you are or what you do? Well, I'm a TV host and a reporter for Bitcoin magazine. and Ola TV.

I fell down the rabbit hole right after the Bitcoin conference back in 2021, selling coffee. Actually, not selling coffee, handing out free coffee. So it's exciting to come a long way. It's a good community. Awesome.

Well, I'm glad, and I'm excited to hear about your fall down the rabbit hole. A lot has happened in the past year. So thank you for being here. Yusuf, good to see you again, my friend. Welcome to the show. Can you let people know

who you are, what you do. Likewise, hello to everybody. My name is Yusuf Nassari, co-founder, and director of philanthropy for the Built to a Bitcoin Foundation. Six years ago, I was orange pulled by my co-founder, Ray Yusuf, who had a crazy idea. He wanted to build schools around the world utilizing Bitcoin and spreading Bitcoin education. So that's what we do. On a daily basis, I get to do what I love in all thanks to Bitcoin. Awesome. Well, yeah, and perhaps, well, I don't know what your reason being bullish is this week, but perhaps we'll hear a bit more about that momentarily here. Well, yeah, thanks for being here, man.

And Joe, making your way over from probably the last time I spoke with you on what's the app. Now I'm losing. Love house, of course. Yeah. Good to see you, man. Let people know who you are, what you do. Good to see you, Ben.

Hi, everybody. It's Joe Carlos, sorry. I am a commercial litigator at Smith-Ommon-L-LC based out of Chicago. I'm also co-chair of our firm's crypto practice group, but I am a diehard Bitcoiner, and I really try to help a lot of Bitcoin companies. They represent Bitcoin miners in the space, developers. I also do some regulatory work occasionally. So yeah, and I also host a podcast myself inside Bitcoin with Neil Jacobs.

Awesome. Well, I am so stoked to have everybody here. Everybody watching, of course. Thank you for being here. If you're unfamiliar, this is why are we bullish? Really simple. We go by the three R's. somebody's going to drop a reason why they're feeling bullish.

Then altogether, we're going to riff on that reason. And then when we wrap up that topic, we're going to rotate to the next person until we all get a turn. Really, really easy, really chill, laid back. And so I'm going to get us started here. And so my reason for being bullish is peer-to-peer Bitcoin transactions and purchase. And so this is kind of in the vein of privacy and recent moves to encroach on individuals' privacy over time. So, you know, we've seen some totalitarian-esque things here in Canada, where I am. So that's obviously been a concern here.

We've just seen some stuff in the EU around an attempt. not a done deal yet, but basically a vote in favor of demanding additional information regarding unhosted wallets, which I hate that term, but basically any wallet that is not actually an account with a regulated exchange, if you're sending to or from a wallet that is not in the control of a trusted third party, then all of this extra information would be necessary. And so what I'm bullish on is is platforms that have enabled that not to be the case. So for those that value their own privacy, would like to, you know, transact with Bitcoin in a peer to peer fashion, we've seen lots of platforms to begin to pop up.

I mean, one of the first ones that I ever used in terms of like straight peer to peer was actually Paxful, was one of my early, oh, I can like transact with somebody and use things like gift cards and stuff like that, which is super awesome. I've also done videos on things like, and I'm just going to, I may as well bring it up here, But, you know, I covered BISC, which again is kind of a decentralized peer-to-peer exchange where you can buy and sell Bitcoin across a lot of different ways. I just covered hoddle-hoddle at the beginning of the week. But there's one other one that I'm just starting to poke around with is it's called Robosats. And it's actually, you access it through Tor.

So you have to use Tor browser. but it's really interesting like it's you do like a lightning deposit to to as in like an escrow and there's it's it's very interesting I'm playing around with it and there's no like adding ID and all this stuff so there's no honeypot of information

and don't get me wrong like I I'm in Canada I use things like like shake pay you know I love Swan you know I love what strike is doing and stuff like that. But I think it's important to have these things accessible for when shit hits the fan. And that could be in a variety of different ways.

Shit could hit the fan. But it's nice to have these options accessible. And I just see some good progress being made with these types of platforms. And so, yeah, that's why I'm bullish today is that, and I've been on a bit of a privacy kick here the past, especially month, month and a half here. But this is just one more tool in people's tool about belt, where they don't maybe want to have their information

everywhere all the time and have people begin to peer in their financials. Because I know a lot of people will look at, you know, overreaching governments and stuff like that. But it's also on a personal level, you can become a target if anybody and everybody, and everybody can become privy to how much Bitcoin you own. And that's a, you know, you don't want that information everywhere because people can find you. People can come and learn where you live.

And it's a legitimate danger. And I think it will only become more of a danger with that type of information. So we got to be careful. And I'm glad that things like this exists. So I'm going to open it up to everybody, whether it be you want to add comments on this, your thoughts or questions around any of this type of stuff. So yeah, anybody that wants to jump in. What are your feelings in around peer to peer?

I'll jump on that. I'm super bullish on that, to be honest with you, because I feel like the whole world is just like one big advertisement for Bitcoin with the censorship and the seizures of foreign currency reserves. They're starting to understand that other assets have those risks. And so more and more people are going to look at Bitcoin as a safe haven't. but it's important that we have tools that promote that available for people specifically in those jurisdictions.

So very, very bullish on that because back in the day, I mean, it was local bitcoins. And now we got a lot of easier, you know, better UX, like BISC and Paxful and the more options, the better in my opinion. So and then you have, I think Jack Dorsey is working on decentralized exchange as well. So, I mean, these, these tools are coming and it's just, it's good for Bitcoin. It's good for Bitcoin that we have more on-ramps that can work around these rules and regulations in case governments continue to infringe upon the rights of their citizens. So super bullish.

Awesome. Anybody else want to jump in here? Yeah, I think it's great. So, Ben, you know, my view, when I hear something like this, it's awesome that it exists because the mere fact that it exists is a check and balance on regulators who are going to say, oh, well, we're going to find a way to do this or try to play some shenanigans and undermine someone's privacy. So like the mere existence, even if it isn't broadly adopted, I think is a pushback

against a very authoritarian state. I'll also say just along the same lines, I was really encouraged this week because it's e-cash bill dropped. I don't know if you saw that from Representative Stephen Lynch. And it's not Bitcoin, but he's talking about a digital dollar and the way he wants to create it is building some pretty strong privacy safeguard. So although it's not directly related to Bitcoin, I think it does show. that people in the government at higher levels, congressmen, senators that are friendly to Bitcoin,

they're being aware, cognizant about how important privacy is. If you don't have privacy with your money, you have nothing really. It's the most basic freedom. So super bullish. I like that. Yeah. And I'll add on to that. I mean, with my experience being on the ground, you know, folks don't truly understand, unfortunately, what financial sovereignty and financial inclusion really looks like, right? I'll give a shout out to our guy, Alex Glassstein, and his new book, you know, know your finance or check your financial privilege, which on my recent trip to South Africa, I read in its entirety. And financial privilege is something that is real and true, especially when you're able to venture out and be on the ground. As far as, you know, peer to peer,

I mean, that's the first line of the white paper, right? I think that in its actuality in Genesis, Bitcoin was peer to peer and is peer to peer. The beautiful thing about having so many different platforms that are out there, it just proves the fact that Bitcoin is not uniform. It is adaptable to be able to work in any kind of climate or environment. And that's the beautiful thing. Regardless of the financial situation that you are facing in your country, Bitcoin can become this universal translator of money, so to speak. And this is a quote that I've heard Ray speak about all the time is that utilizing Bitcoin in its true form, is made for the 100%, not just the 1%.

I love that. Isabella, I don't know what experience you have so far in the past year in terms of different ways of obtaining Bitcoin, but like, do you have feelings on peer-to-peer and different ways of obtaining Bitcoin? I think I like it because it goes back to how gold was treated back in the day when we used to trade gold. You know, there were so many layers how there is now,

I feel like with the USD we kind of lost that like the true value of gold and like transferring money peer to peer back how we used to now we have to go through all these different layers like we have to if you want to give a check we have to go to the bank and then the banker has to approve that you have the funds and then it goes all the way and I feel like Bitcoin kind of gets rid of that because it's truly yours it's your money and giving it I've been using stripe and I've noticed that it's easy. wait like I transferred somebody like Bitcoin money for to Mexico like if that was if I were to do that with US dollars I would be like if I want to send a hundred dollars they would be receiving $20 because of all the fees you know what I'm saying yeah it's like yeah I was going to say and and like what you're talking about in terms of it that was one of the the chinks in gold's armor, you know, having been a store value for 5,000 years, was, was the need to add, you know, basically technologies on top that allowed it to be more transactable around the world. But in doing so, they created the ability to break that peg, the ability to say, well,

it used to be this many dollars per ounce of gold, while we're going to take that away now. And now we're just going to take all the gold and your dollars are just paper. And so with Bitcoin, you're right. Like it can be truly yours and have all of the features of, you know, the features and beyond of the current financial system without any of the detriment of actually perverting the supply or the ability or access to have it and own it. yeah like you don't need to ask for permission to give your like to pay somebody money and i feel like that's what it's come down to you know and back and obviously you guys saw with what happened with the inflation and everything it's just the perfect money and and and uh you mentioned strike and again hats off to uh jack mallors and and what uh what he's working on there because again like

obviously strike being custodial but like the seamless ability to transact with anybody anywhere and transfer that value whether they're using strike or not is is kind of the killer use case here so yeah absolutely any final thoughts on on this general topic of peer to peer before we we give ourselves a little rotation here i'm sure period of peer is going to come up many times in this conversation. I assume so. All right. I will let it roll then. Again, shout it to everybody

in the chat right now. I know there's a bunch. I don't know. I wonder if David is here. There is, if anybody's unfamiliar here, there's my biggest fan, David Wong. He might not have made it this week. That's

sad. David Wong, he is always in this side chat. And he comes every Friday. I don't think he's missed a show in months and months and months. He hates Bitcoin, but he's always here for the show. He's always here to tell us how wrong we are. And I love a cool guy. Yeah, yeah. So David, I don't know where you're at, but, you know, I miss you this week. Maybe we'll see you back next. Either way, everybody in chat, good to see you guys. I'll start trying to pull in some of your comments now that I'm done with

my topic. But we're going to give it a road. rotate. So I'm going to jump over to Sam. And Sam, you can take it away. Let us know what you're bullish about. What are you excited about this week? Well, this is going to roll right into what you guys are just saying because I just did a deep dive into the problems that lightning and strike solve, which is the correspondent banking system and cross-border payments. And you wouldn't believe what it just train wrecked is still. Like, it is terrible. And I know Jack Mullers has talked about this, but, you know, when you're talking about an average fee of $25 to $35 to $300, you're talking about average two to three day waits and worse up to 10 days if it's in a more remote jurisdiction. And it's just so much rent seeking of intermediary banks.

And then you contrast that with the lightning adoption that we're seeing. And just lightning compared this improvement, this massive improvement on cross-border payments. And they've been waiting for this innovation. for a long time. Like I like to dig into these international organizations a lot, like deep into their research. They've been trying to fix this problem for literally decades. And there's all kinds of problems, barriers to entry for new entrants to innovate in this area due to high fixed costs of running these intermediary banking system. And when you have lightning, I mean, it just fixes everything. And so you're talking about a industry that expected to grow 250 trillion.

dollars by 2027 in cross-border payments due to the increased connectivity and globalization of the world. And lightning is just like a Ferrari compared to a horse and buggy right now. I looked into Swift, who is doing a program right now, and they're bragging about getting the wait times down from two to three days to one business day. And then you have lightning on the other side, which is instant. And peer to peer and take those banks away, I mean, it's incredible. And then And if you talk about the lightning growth we've seen, we've seen, you know, I think over 3,600 bitcoins are locked in lightning right now. So $160 million.

That is like 200% increase over the last year. You have like 20,000 nodes with active channels right now. Also like over 90% increase over the last year. And so what we're seeing is that they're starting to wake up to the fact that this is the future of cross-border payments. And then you have an actual use case or case study with El Salvador. And after two months, you know, the financial inclusion that this provides as well because, you know, only 23% of El Salvadorans had bank accounts. And now 60% do after two months because they have a cell phone.

And mobile phone penetration in these developing nations is 83% compared to, you know, less than 60 with bank accounts. And so everything is pointing me towards like this is incredible. bullish. And once you understand the problem, you understand like why Jack Muller is just like so pumped up about this. And I think more people have to understand this issue. And, and when you talk about, you know, what this means for the world, it's like widespread benefits of increasing economic growth, financial inclusion, increasing international trade. And it's just going to bring us into this world where we can send money freely and instantly with anybody in the world with a cell phone and internet connection and I'm just super bullish about that.

I love that. Yeah, I mean, I'll let others jump in before I say anything so I don't know if anybody wants to comment on fame here. I agree with everything you just said. So you've been... I think he covered pretty much everything. So in numbers out there, I was like, yeah. I'm doing that too. No, it's great.

And the interesting thing about it is that, you know, you mentioned the fees and like, why isn't this been solved? And the thing I keep thinking about is that they don't want to solve it. They don't want to fix it. And all these great minds in Bitcoin like Mallors and others, we're coming along and say, we'll do your job for you. We'll make this easier for the people. So it's really cool, really cool, the way to develop. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'll second that, Joe.

And that's exactly what I was going to stay. I think when we look beyond just North America, the amount of trapped money that there are in countries around the world, this machine is chugging along as a well-oiled machine. I think everything is happening the way that they wanted to, to Joe's point, right? The intermediaries want to be there right in the middle, taking and suffocating, you know, dollar by dollar, you know, percentage point to percentage point from here and there, from a son of two refugees of Afghanistan,

you know, for my family to send money overseas, you know, via Western Union or money gram or what may be every single month for years upon years, the amount of money that went to the intermediaries and not to the hands of my family members is a crime. It's criminal. And so now we have this lightning network that decreases those costs, decreases the speed and the time for people to be able to attain that financial liberty right in the palm of their hand.

They don't want this to happen, right? They're actually looking, you know, they want to keep their job. And this is something that's going to, you know, this is a disruption that's not going to go away anytime soon. And we're ready for it, baby. We're bullish on this. Sam, I'm with you, brother. It's funny because, you know, with the advent of this, it means all those rent seekers will actually have to provide value if they want to continue getting any sort of reward for being present. So, I mean, again, like it's very much in line with the, a lot of the concepts that Jeff Booth discusses in his, in his book, Price of Tomorrow, how, how technology is, is driving the marginal cost of things like this to zero, right?

Like, pretty basically transactionally, there's, there's no longer a real need to have any real cost to transmitting value. in particular small amounts of value. I know with lightning that obviously if you're locking up large amounts of liquidity, you're going to be getting small fees through that and everything. But it reduces that friction by such an order of magnitude that, you know, it makes it so much more accessible to everybody. I'm going to put forward one question to kind of whoever wants to jump in. But maybe for those that are watching that haven't been playing,

with lightning yet. What are some ways that you've utilized lightning, like in terms of what kind of wallets or does anybody run a node? I'm just curious in terms of panel. What's your exposure to lightning? Well, I'm not going to lie. I haven't tried lightning yet.

You have because you're afraid. Yeah, that's lightning? It is. That's why it's so fast. I'm not even. No, yeah, then I'm bullish on that. And it doesn't charge any fees. Like for me, I'm like, my respects, Jack, because the fees, when you think about it, then I'm like, yo, now you're trying to be like a bank right here.

You know what I'm trying to say? I don't know. I feel like when they don't use fees, it's fair. You know what? I'm bullish on you not realizing that was lightning because that's exactly what we want for newcomers coming into Bitcoin is to not notice whether or not they're. using on chain or lightning because right now like people that have been around for a while you distinctly know like oh i'm using lightning or i'm using like main chain bitcoin but that is the goal that is the goal exactly what you just said there is oh i actually i don't think i've used

lightning but you did and it was fast and cheap and you were super excited about it that is lightning and that's a i've done very happy about that comment there but yeah now i feel like i'm an innovator because honestly you don't understand how awesome it is like i've made everybody get it i'm like addicted to it because you can buy super easy you can send money it compared to like the other ones that i was like damn yeah this is this great i love i love the passion because again it's like a a stroll down memory lane of first getting into bitcoin as people are alike that's the beauty behind it i feel, right? And to your point, to not fully understand that it was lightning, that's the goal that we all should, you know, potentially want to be able to achieve. From the technology perspective, it's obviously there. We respect it. But functionality is really what people strive for, right?

To not be concerned about the technology versus the functionality of it, I think that's where the mass adoption can truly come in, right? If you're sending funds to a friend using Venmo or cash app before it was lightning integrated, and, you know, via Fiat, you're not really worried about what's happening on the back end, right? You're not really concerned about the technology. You're just a concern about the money getting there, right? And I think to Isabella's perspective there, that's the same concept. Like, it should be that simple and easy. Oh, I'm using strike.

I save money. It's fast. It's easy. It's convenient. Boom. No fees. That's, I hope, where we can get to as we continue moving forward. That's why we're all bullish on this.

Yeah, and just to add one other point, aside from everything everybody said, going back to our first topic, privacy, right? So I'm actually was involved in some litigation with Lightning where folks were sending some stuff back and forth. And it's really hard, guys. Like, I don't know if anybody's experience with it to figure out where money is going and how it's flowing. I consider that a positive, the fact that has these privacy benefits. I won't comment specifically, but I will say that I agree with you. to answer your question i use i like moon wallet i think that's a pretty good wallet um i like umbril for beginners especially it's very easy to run a lightning node using umbril um cash app cash app integrated

lightning so i think that's amazing and i think actually that trend of exchanges adopting lightning is is fantastic and i think you're just going to continue to see that um you know the more the more exchanges the more companies that interact with lightning, the more efficient and reliable. It becomes the better liquidity increases and the more products and services that are going to be built on top of it. So incredible for growth in general. And then just one other thing, Guy Swan talks about this sometimes. But if these exchanges have users that have their Bitcoin, not in the custodian with them, but locked in lightning channels, it's a lot harder for hackers to get the Bitcoin.

So that's like another little benefit of these exchanges. If they start to actually have their clients Bitcoin in the Lightning channels, I think we're going to see that one day, but it's actually going to be better for security as well. So awesome. That's great. Yeah, I'll echo you on Moonwall. I really enjoy that one.

Of course, I'm running an umbrella node and, you know, set up all my channels and everything. And that's fun to tinker. with. And then I also really like what Breeze wallet has done too. They're a good, like, non-custodial, relatively easy to do lightning wallet. And they've also integrated podcasts, which is a cool thing where you can you can basically set a sats per minute and then listen to a podcast from your Bitcoin wallet and be paying the podcaster per minute of listen sats, which is super cool because then it's like, if you're really good, then you get more money for somebody listening to your entire podcast. But if you suck, then they turn it off after three

minutes and you've got to make better content. So it actually, in theory that if we're on a set standard of people like paying for value, it encourages better quality content over the long run. So hats off to Breeze and the other podcast platforms that are doing and stuff like that too. So yeah. Anybody else have comments in and around lightning, wallets, anything like that before we do a rotation? Yeah, I just want to add really quickly

in the world of philanthropy, like running an NGO, you know, being able to get funds in, you know, Lightning Network has made that extremely easy for us. When Twitter launched, you know, tips via its platform, that really allowed folks to be able to make those micro-transactions and just send 2,000, 3,000 sats worth of with a Bitcoin to us and allow us to be able to do our work in a much more seamless, fast, and easy way. I mean, so like it's also changing the traditional world of philanthropy as well, too,

by allowing the donors to be more connected, so to speak, to the work that's being done. And Lightning has made everything easier for us, from the fees perspective, the speed of it, obviously. and also the convenience, right, for folks to be able to send over a few thousand stats here and there versus having to donate large increments and be hit with the fees on top of it. It's changing the game in so many different ways, from remittances to commerce to even the world of philanthropy. So the sky is the absolute limit.

That's fantastic. Yeah, it's, I agree. I don't think we've even come close to feeling the impacts or the implications of what's possible down. the road were just scratching the surface. I played with my first lightning wallet in 2018 and could not understand for the life of me what I was even doing. And now you can, and now, and now I have a guest that used lightning and it was just Bitcoin. And that's the exactly overall, which is fantastic. And I love that so much. So everybody in the chat, again, thank you so much. A quick question from, um,

said didn't Cracken just enable lightning on their exchange? And yes, they absolutely did. You can now do deposits or withdrawals of up to 10 million sats on Cracken. They finally rolled it out, which is great. I can't wait to see more exchanges do this and normalize it because I think it's needed. And every time I see an exchange that is charging like a flat Bitcoin rate for withdrawal where it's like, oh, you're charging like $20 for a withdrawal. Like they set like a flat Bitcoin rate and and that's just it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think that lightning is is an excellent tool to be rolled out. So with that, let's let's wrap this one up and let's give ourselves a rotation. So I'm going to jump to Isabella next. I'm going to let you take it away and get a little rant on what you're excited about in relation to Bitcoin. Go ahead. Well, in honor of the 19th million Bitcoin being mine, I think it was today, if I'm not mistaken.

It's in and around now, yeah. Yeah, some like either today or tomorrow will be it. I think I'm bullish because it's limited. It's scars. You know, like there's a cap. There's no way that some president. like Biden can come up and just decide to print random bills because he doesn't have enough paper to give out to his people. You know what I'm saying? Like that for me is what gets me

bullish on Bitcoin. Obviously, so many different other reasons, but right now that's one of them because it gives it value. It doesn't devaluate a Bitcoin. And that's why Bitcoin is worth so much today like back when it when it started back in 2008 where it wasn't like even worth one dollar fractions of a penny yeah like fractions of a penny that being scarce has giving it value which is also why gold back used to have so much value because you had to mine it you had to like work for it it it wasn't just giving out to you because you can print it and decide to put president's face on it I like your topic because there's, I don't know if you saw this swirling on Twitter, but Greenpeace and Chris Larson, who's like the co-founder of Ripple, are trying to change,

are trying to change Bitcoin, which is like, it's so as to me. I saw that. I was like, why? Just create a coin so it can flop. Well, and not only that, but you, you zeroed in on kind of what, makes Bitcoin work, which is proof of work. You aligned it with gold. You have to work to dig the gold out of the ground and actually have that value, which in itself is scarce. There's a finite amount of gold on earth and it takes a lot of work to get it. At first, you could pan for it in a river. Now you've got

to get a lot of expensive machinery and dig deep into the earth. And the same concept was true for Bitcoin, easier to mine at first and increasingly difficult over time. It basically took the concept of gold and took it to the extreme of there is an actual limited value and we're going to here's the issuance schedule and it cannot be perverted even by supply and demand we know the issuance no matter what we know the the schedule you know more or less of of how quickly all of the bitcoin will be mined and so you know you hit the nail on the head when you say like, you can't just, you can't just make it. You can't just say, well, you know, there's some expenses or something came up.

And so we're going to paper it over. We're going to create a bunch and we're going to reallocate value to where we think it should go. And, you know, if ever there was a reason to be bullish on Bitcoin, it's exactly what you said. It's scarce and you can't fuck with it. And even even the co-founder of Ripple can't fuck with it. So I think that's incredibly bullish. I love that telling me. But I'll open it up to everybody else comment on.

I don't know. Yeah, every time I think about like how few Bitcoin there are out there and there's these statistics that, yes, there have been 19 million mines, but we've got millions of them potentially that are lost. We'll never actually get to 21 million Bitcoin. You know, it's never actually going to be mine. I just think about you have billions of people on the planet. And if this goes where we all know what's going, they're going to be scraping over

little Satoshis, right? They're going to be so valuable. They're going to be pieces of gold themselves. So anytime I hear that stat about the 19 million, I just think, man, I got to get more Bitcoin. Somebody tweeted out today. I wonder if I can find it. Somebody tweeted out today just from like Clark Moody's dashboard, the issuance like when the last Bitcoin will be mined. And it's like the year 2139 or something. Yeah, like 2144. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, I can't remember what the stat was specifically on when he screenshoted it. I think I have it here. Hold on a sec.

I want to pull it up because I did the math. And I was like, okay, so let's assume, like I have a daughter. And she was born in, she's turning five this summer. So, so, you know, let's say, you know, she around the same age as my wife has, her own children. And let's project out just like a nice even number, 30 years per generation. And so I figured it out. My great, great, great grandchildren will be born shortly before the last sat is issued. So my kid will have kids. They will have kids. They will have kids. They will have kids. and they will have kids by the time the last Satoshi is mined.

And that blows my mind. Like, again, like the original tweet from the Bitcoin doctor was, you won't be around when the last one is mined. And I was like, well, who will be? And it will be somebody so far removed from me that they'll be like, you know, maybe they'll watch this show back and see this and be like, wow. You know, that was, that was, that was how. The dynasty was born.

I hope anyways. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Like, I don't think people realize how early we still are. And that's one of the reasons what I wanted to prove how coolest people are about Bitcoin. So by that time, the last Bitcoin, that is mine, obviously, Bitcoin probably one sat will equal one U.S. dollars. So it's insane. I don't think.

U.S. percent. Will be. Okay, you got to dream big. You can't be, you can't be realistic, you know. I mean, back in the day, people thought that one Bitcoin was going to be 5K, and people thought they were delusional. I think one sat as one dollar at one point, it will, like,

because dollars will become so worthless that it won't even be in the realm. But I think what we may see is kind of like Weimar, Germany, where they got so devalued and then it became like a novelty to go and buy physical like I was working on Amazon. I was like, how do I get some marks? And they actually cost money now because it's like novelty item of like this was so worthless that now we're selling it for more money than that they're even close to what they were worth last. But yeah, like it's it's pretty, it's pretty mind-blowing to genuinely look and not only the fact that it's how far out it is and how many generations it will affect by then, but the fact that we even know this information, that we have

a monetary system where we can say in and around this date or in and around like this year, we know that the last Satoshi ever will be mined. And that's pretty profound. I can project out to the monetary policy that will exist when my great, great, great, grandchildren are around. That's insane. And that's amazing. It's such a good tool. Think of how, how better informed people's economic decisions will be over those five generations

of people because they just know what the issuance of their money is. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, the scarcity is everything. But like what you're saying, it's about the credibility of the monetary policy. right, which is a function of Bitcoin's decentralization, which is what makes Bitcoin different, which is why I don't even want to talk about ripple because like, fuck those guys. But like, that's what makes Bitcoin different.

And like when you can look out and you know exactly what the issue in schedule is, because you can trust that it's never going to change. That's the only reason why 21 million, you can trust that. You can trust the code. And it's never changed its entire history. And just look at the chart of the monetary policy. This is an issue and schedule of Bitcoin. It's programmatic.

It looks like it's from an algorithm. And then compare that to Ethereum's. And that's all you need to do. And it just looks like a human's controlling it because it changes very randomly. And that's what makes Bitcoin different. Are you talking about ultrasound money right now? Yeah, I don't even want to, you know. But people need to understand that.

people need to understand that the 21 million is a function of Bitcoin's decentralization. And that's why it's different. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and again, in the grand scheme of, I saw another good tweet today. I can't remember who put it out. So forgive me here. But again, people came to change the block size of Bitcoin.

They failed. People are coming to change the proof of work algorithm of Bitcoin. They will fail. But eventually, people will come to change. the issuance of Bitcoin and they will also fail. So, you know, I think we've kind of seen the track record of trying to change Bitcoin and I think we've already seen how it will pan out for people. Regardless of how dicey it may seem at the time, I think that, you know, if if it failed so

spectacularly at a time five years ago when Bitcoin is even less decentralized than it is now, I think we know the outcome moving forward. But my question is like, why do people try to change it? Like when they know that it's so successful, like, why do they think that they can make it more successful than it's going? That's what I don't understand. Ego. Question. Yeah.

Yeah. Ego. Or malice, right? Like in this, right? Like, do people miss, you know, a lack of understanding of the efficient? and sees that Bitcoin brings? I don't know. They don't understand it, maybe.

I think we have, it has a lot to do with control as well too. And since your point, ego is underlying there as well. I think a lot of people are not used to having the sovereignty and the freedom that Bitcoin provides for people. It's something that's very uncommon and unknown to them. And, you know, sometimes you feel threatened by something you don't understand, right? And so you want to change it to a way.

that you understand it and to make it, you know, make it your own. That's just my personal belief of like, you know, but Bitcoin is like indiscriminate, right? It's universal. You know, it could be what you want it to be in a sense that it can benefit your life in a multitude of ways. But the math is the most important aspect of Bitcoin itself in my perspective. That math, you can't change math. You know, one plus one is never going to equal three, right?

And I think once people truly understand this and come to the realization and have some humility to be faced with, then they won't truly be able to see the benefit that Bitcoin possesses. I, thankfully, in a fortunate position, am able to see how Bitcoin can truly change people's lives, beyond speculation, beyond investment, beyond wealth preservation for that matter, right, as a functional daily use. in different parts of the world. And so maybe they should take a trip with me. Peter Schiff, where are you at, bro? Any time. Road trip. Yeah, you're right.

I think over time, people will come to learn and accept. And then, you know, eventually it'll just be a given. People go, oh, of course, this is the way it needed to be. But we're in that interim where, you know, people don't like the idea that they can't just change it if they don't like it. But again, that's not how Bitcoin works. It's either you use it or you don't. You can come or you can go.

And a lot of people think that they can show up and say, this needs to change. It doesn't and it won't. What needs to happen is you need to decide, are you going to use it or not? And if you don't like the way it is, then you're, you know, there's the door. You can fork it. You can create whatever else you want. you can use that. And we'll be here.

My node will continue to run proof of work. And there you go. I'd say just one more thing is that, I mean, it's good for Bitcoin. It's an attack on Bitcoin. And whoever, they're going to fail and they're going to get humiliated. And it's going to highlight all of Bitcoin's strengths. And everyone's going to see it for what it is, which is in immutable money. And I think it's good for Bitcoin.

I think they're stupid. Very concise there, yes. Awesome. Well, let's wrap this topic here and we'll do a little rotation again. Everybody and fumble in the chat. Oh, fork off. Indeed. Indeed, fumble.

Yeah, so we're going to rotate to the next one. Yusuf, my friend, you are up. Excited to hear you chat here. What are you excited about, my friend? Hey, man. I'm super bullish on Bitcoin because of next week. We're going to hopefully I'll be able to see you meet you all in person and, you know, at the biggest Bitcoin conference in the world in Miami, Bitcoin 2020. I'm just really excited because I'm ready to learn, man.

I'm ready to listen. I learned so much about Bitcoin at the last conference and since then as well and the people that I've been able to meet. And that's what I love the most about Bitcoin is the community that it comes with, right? It's that peer-to-peer kind of interaction and conversations that you're able to have in person. They said that last year wasn't going to be a possibility due to the pandemic. And so many people were able to come. It was a huge success. This year, I can only imagine what it's going to be like during the day at the conference, in the evening and other places.

And so I'm really excited, nonetheless, to hear so many amazing speakers at the conference itself. and like the folks at BTC media and the conference are like family and so I'm really, really excited to be amongst the entire Bitcoin community for sure. What's going to be the big news story? What are we going to be talking about? Any guesses, predictions? I mean, how do you talk last year? Like that was one of the moments that I will remember for the rest of my life in particular

because everybody there got how important. important that speech was almost everybody i'm sure there maybe a couple not but and meanwhile the rest of the world had still has no clue how momentous that occasion was um so i don't know i don't know how do you how do you talk that is that that was a story it was like it's insane i don't honestly i can't comment too much on it because i work there but it's going to be amazing. Like the amount of work and sweat that is taken, we just had a meeting today and they were saying how this conference for this year has been so organized. The attention to the detail that it's focused on, that it's worked for in like the past four years. I feel like this one's

going to be probably like I feel like every year has to level up. You know, you have to learn from your mistakes and this conference is going to prove that it's it's going to be. be insane. Like, I'm nervous. I'm worried. I'm wearing my 2021 shirt in solidarity. I got my 2019 one upstairs. It's starting to crack though. But yeah, no, I'm super excited. There's, there's it's it's like it's like a family reunion when you go to these things, right? It's like yeah, you you walk in and especially over the past few years like, you know, Bitcoiners don't always get that I'm so lucky because I every Friday I get this interaction, right? I get to have these conversations.

And, you know, I'm sure you guys find ways and, you know, you talk with people all the time and through your work and everything. But like a lot of Bitcoiners, they just don't get that. Their day to day is, you know, their regular friends and family, you know, still living in in Fiatland. And these, these conversations are difficult to have. and there's resistance to them. And so you just kind of have to sit and, you know, you take in your podcast, you take in whatever you're listening to, whatever content you're excited about. And then you finish a great piece of content and you just, you have nobody to discuss it with.

And then you get to something like this where people from around the world are coalescing in a single spot that are all excited about the same thing. And it's, it's euphoric. And it's amazing. And like, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, obviously there's, you know, before we came on, we were talking a little bit about like, you know, you got to avoid the time vampires and the people that, you know, will spend 30 minutes talking your ear off about why there should be done is indeed necessary.

But, you know, like you gravitate towards the signal, right? You find the people that you can grow from. And, and again, the vibe is contagious. And I really hope that I have a moment like I did last year because that was, it was something else being there and witnessing that moment. And yeah, I don't know about you guys, but like I was looking around and there weren't a lot of dry eyes in my general vicinity, myself included. So yeah, I don't know. What's everybody excited to see? Like what's everybody wanted to see?

well that's one thing that you mentioned the community because before like I used to think I was an outsider like I really didn't know much about bitcoin until I actually started meeting the people that believed so blindly in bitcoin and it I don't know like I'm trying to express how I felt it was like everybody wanted to bring everybody up and you don't see that in like the real world I feel like the real world, everybody's like competition. But no, like with the Pleds and everybody that is part of the Bitcoin community, they want to see you succeed. Like they want you to be great.

Like the ability of people sharing Bitcoin and like knowledge about Bitcoin so other people can join is just really like the tip of the iceberg of the community because they want everybody to be part of this movement to create a better future for everybody. Yeah, I think it's unique. I think, yeah, well said. I think everyone's Bitcoin journey is very unique. And that's the beautiful aspect about Bitcoin.

Like it brings so many different people from all across the world that speak different languages, that have different cultures. And yet we are all coming there, you know, with a common purpose and a common mission, right? But we all have our beginnings from different places. And so that's why I always say that Bitcoin is beautiful because it's universal. It doesn't matter where you're from. You can still benefit from it, but also be able to work with it for others to be able to benefit as well. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I just echo everything you guys said. I mean, it's just nice being around Bitcoiners because I was out to dinner with my family and friends. And they're all like, man, everything's so expensive, you know. And then I just look over at my dad, just make eye contact. he's like don't start you know and that's good but at bick pointers we would just like yeah let's go like yeah like how do you explain to like non-big corners about bitcoin like you can't really have a conversation about it without getting like fired up it's it's it's difficult it's definitely there's an island and there's yeah you know the island of yeah yeah yeah exactly it's it's

how how deep down that rabbit hole you get before how much time do you have. Right. So it's good to be around Bitcoiners. And one thing about the industry that's cool that I haven't seen really in other industries is like competing companies are like fans of each other and they pick each other up. Like obviously competition's great and we push each other for sure. But I mean, I'm a fan of every competitor of Swan.

Like they're some of my friends and we want the whole industry to succeed. And like we are early and we are building. We are the builders. And so it's really exciting just to be in an industry where everyone supports each other. And, you know, we are the remnant, as Svetsky would like to say. And then Joe, like to answer your question, I don't know what the announcement's going to be. They say it's going to be bigger than El Salvador. Yeah.

So I mean, I guess it would be like another nation state maybe, like a bigger one. Or there's the Apple rumors, which, I mean, I could see. I could see that. I don't know. But I think it's going to be big. I think it may, I think it may be some form of legislation in the U.S.

I would assume maybe like a super PAC, something along those lines that would push Bitcoin adoption for the largest economy in the world, so to speak. I mean, what other country can we possibly see that would have, that would be bigger news? Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. It's, it's tough. It's tough. Because, like, when they say we're going to top that announcement last year, I just, I can feasibly think of things that would top it, but I couldn't feasibly see them happening is the issue. So I just, I don't know. I'm all reserved judgment. I can see something like El Salvador making an announcement, an additional announcement. This might not be the big one. but like right now I think they have something in place where if you like put up three bitcoin you can get residency or something like that maybe they like wipe that out and they actually incentivize you know bitcoiners to come or they kind of like they've been doing a lot of a freedom legislation let's just call it uh in the world will be there okayly will be there okay is going to be there. Yeah, there's rumors that a lot of the administration is going to be there. So that's kind of another like I don't think it's going to be the big one, but I think you could see something like that.

isn't maller's like his announcement or i guess his announcement is on the first the first general the first g-a day isn't it i don't know because that's wednesday right is that on wednesday or thursday thursday is like industry day and then thursday is the first g-a-day so i feel like and then you have friday because i thought i found fit yeah yeah yeah And I thought that Mallors was doing his speech on the Thursday, if I was not mistaken. So which, you know, leads me to wonder, would they do the major announcement on the Thursday? Or would they save it? Because like the one thing about last year was the one thing I wish would have happened is Mallors finishes his speech and that's it.

And like, Dave Bailey comes out and it's like, thank you guys so much for being here. I really value all. But then, like, after that, it was like, Winkle Boss Twins came up. And then, like, that comedian came up. And, like, people were just, like, not. Like, I remember I was walking back from, like, the food trucks. And the comedian was on stage. And he was, like, I don't know.

People were, like, riled up or something. And, but all I heard was the comedian, like, screaming back at the on. No, you suck. So I was like, oh, this is going well. I guess I better leave now. know. But yeah, I thought Jack was the last speaker. I didn't even know there was people. I was so, like, hyped up, you know? Oh, yeah, me too. I went outside and then I saw like all the Bolivars throwing everywhere. Yeah. And everybody's like, oh, this is so illegal. Bitcoin, they're such badasses.

No, that's what he was on after was Logan Paul or or, uh, uh, Logan Paul was there? Was it Logan or what's the other one? Well, I don't even care. It doesn't matter. One of the Paul brothers was there, like the boxing one. Anyways, he was on stage and he was chilling whatever his like NFT drop was or something. And then his boxing match or some, yeah. Anyways, stuff that was like nobody cared about after Jack's announcement kept going. And it was like, should have just like bookended it there, been like, there you go. They couldn't possibly get better from here.

It is done. And off to the party. Like that would have been perfect. I don't know. We were singing sea shanties in the swan dome afterwards. So it was pretty awesome. Yeah. That is pretty awesome.

What an announcement. Yeah. Either way, I'm pretty excited. I'm going to get in on Monday and I'll be there till the 11th. So I've got a good week in Miami Beach. So I'm excited. And there's lots of little satellite events. I'm going to hit my first beef steak,

which is like super exciting for me. And then there's a screening of the Great Reset and the Rise of Bitcoin from Pierre Corbin. That's going to be on the sixth. So I'm going to that screening. And yeah, he rented out of an actual theater for it. So yeah, there should be lots of fun stuff. That's a documentary. I haven't heard that.

Yeah, yeah. It's like an hour and something long documentary. So he's screening it. There's like the Human Rights Foundation dinner is like, I think from like five to seven that night for anybody that's going to it. But then immediately thereafter right at seven, that screening is happening. And it's like the cost of a regular theater ticket. I think it's like 13 bucks or something to go see the movie. So if you're around, go see it.

It's pretty good. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, let's round out this topic. And then let's barrel through to Joe.

So everybody in the chat, of course, keep the comments coming. And I saw that somebody, I just got to bring this up. Somebody was like, hey, I'm having problems with Meta Mask. And then I got to give a shout out to Fumble. He said, if you have problems with MetaMask, you must smash your face into the keyboard. Yes, I apologize. we don't really have good

you know good guidance on Ethereum wallets other than don't use them here on this channel but thank you fumble for filling that in there I appreciate it but yeah we're going to rotate and I'm going to toss it to Joe Joe you are our last guest

and please enlighten us what has you yeah guys what has me absolutely bullish this week even more so than normally is the absolute dumpster fire that's going on in legacy markets. I don't know how many of you follow it very closely, but it is a hot mess. For those that didn't catch it this week, the U.S. Treasury yield curve inverted.

It was the first time, the 10-2, that specific duration inverted since 2019. And in the past, the inversion of the yield curve has been a very strong indicator that a recession is coming. What I think is most interesting about this and why I'm so bullish about Bitcoin with respect to this is because all the projections that the Fiat maximalist talked about coming out of COVID, they have not come to fruition. We're barely chugging along, trying to keep the economic engine working. They spent trillions of dollars

of that toilet paper money we talked about, and now we're slipping back into recession, it seems like. And I see this mess of a system where you've got the yield curve completely broken, you've got the credit markets broken, you've got legacy just kind of chugging along, can't figure out where it's going to go. And then you have this pristine, perfect growing system

for all the reasons you talk, about today right next to it. And it's almost too perfect, right? It's like poetic that you've got this system falling apart on one side and this other system rising to fill the need that we have in the world. So looking at all that's going on, I still follow a lot of the legacy markets, traditional markets. And the reason I do, because every time I learned how fundamentally broken it is, it makes you want to get more excited about Bitcoin. So for me, there's nothing more bullish than that. It's usually most weeks, but this week in particular with the inversion of the yield curve. It's got me pretty amped up.

So I'm going to dive in here and I'm going to ask you questions for not only myself, but also for individuals that are watching this that are like, that sounds bullish in like a backwards way, but I need to understand a few things. Okay. So when you talk about the two and the 10 year treasury, first of all, can you explain effectively like, you know,

why those are important, what like what people are buying when they're buying like a two or a 10 year treasury and then what inversion means and why it's so messed up yeah so to make it real simple like when a bond right is effectively you're loaning someone government money right you're loaning your paper fiat in exchange for a yield and when the yield on the shorter duration the two year mostly we're talking about when that rises higher than the longer duration that's messed up and you may say okay I'm an investor. I'm going to have, I'm going to expect more compensation for taking on more risk of rising inflation, uncertain economic environment. So I'm going to expect a longer duration to pay me more

yield, right, because it's a longer duration. Pretty basic. When you have the short term paying more than the long term, that causes all sorts of problems. It causes problems to the banks because what banks do is their profit margins fall. Effectively, they're borrowing cash at short term rates and they're lending it at the long-term rate. So the banking system has all sorts of havoc. And, you know, you have the Fed, okay, which they're setting the very, very short-term rate, the Fed funds rate, the overnight rate. They've only hiked, right, like 25 basis points, like 0.25%. And with a minimal hike like that, you see the entire treasury curve for all these different durations reacting. So in the credit markets, the fixed-income markets, it just wreaks havoc. And it's not what you would expect to see in a healthy,

economy that's flowing and assessing credit and risks the proper way. So what causes these yields to invert? Like what is the actual, like that's the symptom, but what is the actual underlying cause of those yields inverting? So the underlying cause for long term is usually growth expectations that they think like, you know, the 10 years usually do you think the U.S. economy is going to be really bullish long term. for the short term, they're all responding to the Fed, right?

So the picture you have painting is that, yes, we think the Fed's going to hike because they're concerned about the inflation we were talking about earlier. But at the long end, we just really don't believe in the growth narrative. We think that it's more likely we end up in a recession. So it's telling you a lot of information if you compare these two different durations. And historically, when there's been inversion of the yield curve, it has signaled the recession. So, again, the takeaway with how this is all relevant for Bitcoin is that, We got so little bang for the buck.

Despite all of this money, money printer go burr, stimulus going into the system, we are like creeping into a recession when two years ago, all the academics, the experts, the scholars, the people in positions of authority, they said, we'll have a strong GDP, strong growth. The economy is going to be healthy for a long, long time because we're spending all this money to promote it. You're not seeing that. You're seeing exactly, you know, minimal.

It's kind of like the patient that's, you know, on the operating table. you got to inject more and more of the drug to keep them alive. And pretty soon he's going to be comatose. And there's nothing you could do. So I see that like as sort of the, we're in the final days of like a transitionary period to something else. What that's something else is going to be something, you know, I think it's Bitcoin. I think all of us on the on the channel think it's Bitcoin. But to me, like you have a solid system juxtaposed against a very weak, brittle, fragile system.

And that's the key takeaway. And that has me bulge. It's it's it's it's kind of bringing to light the idea that that it doesn't matter in terms like you can't create value to nothing like printing money does not actually bring value to an economy. You're you're reallocating wealth. But the value of that economy is actually the productivity of the people within. And I mean, we just had multiple years of of severely. you know, diminished productivity because shit was shut down. And so you pump trillions of dollars into an economy that basically has less stuff.

And very few people that can even afford that amount of less stuff. And so what do you do? You widen the wealth gap. The rich just got massively richer than they ever were. Because, of course, if you, if you see what's happening. happening and you understand you're good of money, well, you're going to take the dollars that you just see, you've seen them create 40% of, you know, in like a calendar year, and you're going to take those dollars and you're going to dump them into some sort of asset, whereas the people that are

living hand to mouth and are basically paycheck to paycheck and in loads of debt are, they in no way can benefit from this. And so, yeah, the wealth gap. We see it in Canada. We see a like, Like our housing market in Canada since the cost of the average home in Canada since 2015 has doubled. In 2015, it was 400,000 Canadian. It's 800 and something thousand Canadian is the cost of an average house in Canada now. People like my generation will, if this continues, will effectively be the last generation where it's not. normal to buy and own a home because, you know, most people I know right now would not be able to afford a house, you know, in any reasonable way.

No, it's ridiculous. The prices are insane now. Yeah. My sister's in our way. They make it impossible for you to have a roof over your head. And then they wonder why are there so many, like, homeless people. Yeah. It's wild.

It's hard. Well, I mean, I'm glad, Joseph, that's actually what I was going to say for my bullish, but then I switched to lightning. So I'm glad you brought this up because what makes me really bullish is just how much of a shit show the legacy financial system is right now. I mean, it's absurd what they're doing. And then if they print so much money, when you have this huge debt burden, most of that goes to the interest payments or it's used unproductively.

and it doesn't create any economic growth. And that's exactly what we're seeing, right? And then just came out this week of how much fraud, it's not really surprising, but how much fraud was with these programs, these PPP programs. They're not actually being used productively. And I think people are going to be really shocked.

Like last time we did all this QI, there was like a 10 year gap kind of or, you know, whatever. There was before we did a lot of it. And now we're talking about like another, a year go by, and then we're going to have to print money again. And they are going to do that. Right? diminishing returns.

Exactly. The stimulative is working less and less. Yeah, they're going to do it because the other option is austerity. And these politicians, they just don't have the stomach. They want to get reelected. They're not going to cut spending. If you just look at the trends, they're not talking about cutting spending. They're actually just increasing.

And now that they printed trillions, like a billion here, a billion here, it just doesn't matter anymore. So when you look at the financial system, it's concerning, first off. And then luckily, we have. have Bitcoin, but it's like you have this decrepit spaceship from 1971 that is just broken with these astronauts in it. And they're trying to fix it by just like taking axes to the inside of it and just screwing it up. And then on the other side, you have the most amazing spaceship that just continuously improves. And, you know, we're talking taproot and lightning. And it's just

getting better and better and better. And you have this dichotomy and this contrast happening. And it's super, super bullish. But also kind of concerning. I look at like a covered wagon versus a spaceship that is. Yeah, that's true. They have a cover? Right. Yeah, it's true, though. Yusuf, do you have anything you want to add in?

I don't know if you. Yeah, I mean, God bless Joe and Sam trying to explain this, you know, in the sense that imagine trying to explain the traditional financial system to rule communities and community members around the world, not even just around the world, but here in the United States, right? or North America, for that matter, it's not just concerning, Sam, it's like frightening to be able to see the futures of this, right? And for us to be able to sit here and talk about it in a place of privilege, imagine those folks that, you know, can't look three weeks down the line, three months, three years, Joe, right? It's like we have to kind of be understanding and

empathetic to other people's situations. Like, what kind of, what kind of future are we creating for our five-year-old children, our seven- and eight-year-old children, to look forward to? You know, to have housing prices double in a matter of, what, seven, eight years? You know, that's, it's unreal. Here in Houston, Texas, where I live, you know, a lot of folks think that Texas is a much more economically savvy place to live in, which it is, of course. But yet, the housing market here has been booming because the inventory is low, the demand is high, you know, it's basic economics 101. But what happens when there's so much flow of money and not productivity or the work that goes along with it happening at the same exact time? We're getting this like conundrum of another recession in a matter of two generations and less than two generations.

Like how are we going to be able to come back from this, right? And that. Yeah. Sorry. I was going to say, imagine those millions of people that you're talking about that don't have the financial privilege. Their destiny and their fate is determined by people. people that are unelected sitting in a room deciding whether we're going to hike or cut interest rate.

Is that a better system or an open, transparent, fair code that everybody can audit? What's the better thing? Let me go beyond that. Let me go beyond that. Imagine having your destiny, your financial destiny being chosen by someone from a different continent. Like, I was just in South Africa just days ago. And the South African RAND is an inflation rate is at 37%.

That's a government regulated number. It's definitely higher. Because in the townships that I was visiting. the unemployment rate plus the inflation rate, you have to take into factor, right? You have to take into consideration. So these folks are literally sitting at me, asking me the question, why is the South African Rand at exchange always compared to the US dollar? And it's like, it's a difficult question I can of course answer, but how can they, like,

it's incomprehensible to that. Why is another country's currency controlling the currency of me and my family here in South Africa, or Rwanda, where the country? the Philippines, El Salvador, whatever it may be, right? So like, how do we explain this to folks, right? On a level to where they can, A, comprehend it, but B, here's an alternative. Here's a solution. But we're still so early on that journey.

So it's like we in the Bitcoin community have this obligation, I feel, where, you know, we're all educators, so to speak, on what Bitcoin truly is, whether we're orange-pilling people at Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas or, or, you know, eat or whatever may be, you know, to like to continue that process. But it is frightening, not just concerning in my eyes. A lot of people are desperate. Desperation creates this, this level of, I need to support my family. And I'm willing to do anything and everything, even if it's something that's nefarious or illegal in order for them to be able to eat today rather than worry about what's happening three years down the line. Yeah. It's,

true that man yeah it's hard it's hard you see like the inflation rate in spain germany netherlands but all double digits and those are more developed nations and you just can't even imagine what it's like in emerging markets and i'm super sympathetic to that i mean it's part of what drives me to work in bitcoin um and in like going back to the housing stuff i mean the youth are hopeless right now. You can feel it. The American dream is just gone after COVID. It's just out of reach for so many people.

And so when we talk about like fourth turnings, I listened to a Neil Howe podcast recently, and he's like, well, there is a silver lining of fourth turning. It's not all pessimism. It's not all chaos. It's that it breaks this gridlock and this inability to think about long-term problems. And all of these economic situations,

they get reset after a fourth turning and it allows us to build out of that. And so we are in a fort turning, I think. I think it's pretty safe to say. It's a chaotic time. But I do think that with Bitcoin and people in a community like this who's thinking about these things and educating, I think we will come out of it in a better place. At least I hope so. But also to add on that, I feel like the people are not at fault because the education system, doesn't teach about financial situations.

Like so many people my age are so financially illiterate that it's disgusting. Like they don't even have like $5,000 U.S. dollars to their name. And it goes back to their education. You can't think somebody like, you can't blame them for not knowing because there's not like enough people to teach them. Like there's people that don't even know. I know like maybe for like the Bitcoin community. it's easy. Like, you go on YouTube.

You can find tutorials to teach you about the basic stuff. But I feel like there's some people that just don't have that luxury of, like, reaching out and trying to educate themselves on stuff that is supposed to be basic, you know? Well, I mean, Fiat education, right? You get out of school. And I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I finished high school. And there was a lot of stuff that I never used again and a lot of stuff that really could have used. It would have been nice to know how to make a budget and pay taxes and like all of those

responsible adult things that come with being an adult. And I didn't get any of that in high school. And so like for the big chunk of most of, well, all of my 20s, I was not, you know, like my parents, you know, did the best that they could, but like they were not well off. And they went through the same education system that I did. And so, you know, it wasn't until I came to Bitcoin that I started paying more attention and actually starting to understand money a little bit better and being more responsible. And most people don't, they just don't get that.

And so, yeah, like you leave high school. And they're like, great, go drop tens of thousands of dollars and get a degree. And as you walk into this building for the first time, There's going to be people set up pitching you high interest credit cards to rack up some additional debt on top of that student debt. The whole system in and of itself is not set to educate yourself to be financially savvy. So the people that managed to make it through that minefield somewhat fiscally responsible, it's a miracle.

So, you know, I hope that will change in a big. coin standard, I have to believe it will because it will be much more difficult to, to, to bullshit when you can't just like push a button and fix the financial irresponsibility of those at the top, you get to witness it and watch it firsthand, like what the, what actually happens when people screw around. And that's something that's been lacking for quite some time. So, yeah. I think what I'm going to do now is I'm going to start wrapping this up.

What I do like to do at the end of each, at the end of each episode, is just do a quick round of final thoughts, but also, and I'm going to put this as a bit of a challenge to you guys, I would love you guys to, if you can, each recommend something that has been helpful to you. It could be a video that you really liked. It could be a book. It could be a podcast or an article or something that has been valuable to you. And it doesn't specifically have to be Bitcoin, but hopefully like it relates in some way, shape, or form. So we'll get some final thoughts and recommendations.

I'm just going to give my recommendation right now. It's a book I'm reading through right now. I find it very interesting. and it's called the nomad capitalist. And it's about, you know, looking at alternatives. And while I'm not saying that everybody needs to like move from the country that they live in, it's also not a bad idea to be privy, especially in the age of the sovereign individual, of different jurisdictions and how you might be treated differently in different parts of the world.

And so I think that's a valuable piece of knowledge. knowledge to be aware of. And yeah, so nomad capitalist, check it out. But I'll toss it to Sam. Sam, do you have any final thoughts about anything that was said today and maybe a recommendation if you have one? Final thoughts are just, it's nice to meet you guys. And I was probably seeing Miami.

I think we covered a lot, so I'm not going to like go into it. But I am like kind of the content guy at Swan, so bear with me. I can't just give one recommendation. And I want to give like a couple for, if there's beginners listening, you know, I think the bullish case for Bitcoin is one of the best intro pieces on Bitcoin. You can read. I think there's a conversation with Marad on Pomp's podcast, which there's a transcript and a podcast that's really good, too, if you're a beginner.

So I'd recommend those two. If you're more savvy and you want to know what's going on right now, I would go read Lynn Alden's piece about the fraying of the U.S. Reserve currency. It's a long piece, but it's fantastic and very pertinent to what's going on. today as well as Luke Gromyn's recent podcast with Grant Williams and Preston Pish. And then lastly, is a book not really recommended to Bitcoin, but the psychology of money by Morgan Housel is a fantastic book, just about investing in money. Those are my wrecks.

Damn. You get the content guy in first and he'll just rattle off enough for everybody. That's awesome. Joe, I'm going to get you next because I know you might be in a bit of a, pinch for time. So any final thoughts and recommendations from you. Yes, again, looking forward to seeing everybody in Miami, Sam, Isabella, Yusuf, Ben, love this. This was a ton of fun. Really appreciate you talking with me tonight. So my favorite Bitcoin piece, and it's on Bitcoin Audible, you can get it on Medium, but I think it's one of the best piece of Bitcoin writing period is Jeff Booth,

the greatest game. Fantastic. If you haven't, I'm surprised sometimes how many people haven't read it, go check it out. It's just incredible. It talks about why Bitcoin is likely the heir apparent to the crumbling legacy system. So again, it's Jeff Booth, the greatest game. With that, I'm going to jump, guys. Thank you so much. This was awesome. Good to see it. Take care. Awesome. Isabel, I will jump to you next. Any final thoughts you may have? And anything that's been helpful to you that you've enjoyed. Well, for sure, the Bitcoin conference happening April 6th to the 9th. And also the Bitcoin Macs, magazine YouTube channel so you guys can see how early we still are with the Bitcoin Street

interviews. As a book recommendation, I feel like there's so much for us to learn. Like I am, I just started back in last year. So it's overwhelming how much I have to read. But currently, Svetsky gave me a really detailed list of what I have to read in a specific order. So right now I'm reading like the 21 lessons and holy crap easy to read like I like how it is it's like fun and it talks about like this dude is like he was like honestly I didn't really understand it like but I always keep reading like learning and learning and learning and I feel like that is super true that's something that actually stuck with me you will never fully understand bitcoin Gigi is incredible I've got to meet him a couple times now and he's just such a great guy

So I'm so glad that you brought up. I even like tweet about the things that he says. And I'm like, can somebody actually say where I'm getting it from at least? Because he's amazing. Yeah, he's fantastic. I love Gigi. Because there's some books that are just straight up boring and you're like, yeah. Yeah, no, he's got a gift with words.

Yeah, he's like fun. Like keeping it up. Yeah. You can find a free PDF of that one on Swan too if anybody wants it. Yeah, yeah. Well worth the read. I really enjoy it. Yeah.

A side note before I jump to Yusuf here, I don't know if anybody's ever done it, but there's, so there's a, a VR, a VR version of 21 lessons. And it's literally like, it's somebody like created a cave that you go into and that there's a rabbit that goes down it. And as you walk through the cave, etched into the stone are the 21 lessons as you go. So like you go literally down the rabbit hole and you get to read like the individual lessons as you get to them throughout the cave. It's it's hilarious. I'm trying to remember specifically where it was. But like I have an Oculus and back when nobody could see each other and for some reason everybody foamowed into like, you know, VR. VR.

Like whatever. Yeah. So that was a thing that I found. So yeah. That's pretty cool. I digress though. I'm going to toss it to use of last. Dude, any final thoughts and recommendations you may have?

Final thoughts is I'm extremely bullish on what we're doing in our Bitcoin community, universal community, so to speak. I'm bullish on next week. I'm very excited from Miami. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak here. For me, my recommendations are beyond just literature. You know, check your financial privilege is something that's very fresh on my mind. It's a deep dive and it goes in depth.

and it really spoke to me because of the work that I do around the world and what we do at the foundation. But more importantly, you know, listening to podcasts and seeing interactive podcasts, like BTC sessions, of course, but our community is filled with an abundance of educators. And many of them have different philosophies and ideologies, and that's totally fine. And I think if we continue to like welcome those kind of conversations that may be difficult at times or uncomfortable, we will only get to be able to mature and grow as a community. And I think that's what I hope we can strive for and be able to strengthen because as long as we have a strong foundation, pun intended, we'll continue to be able to grow together and be able to learn together and truly be able to see what Bitcoin's potential has for the future. So I'm very excited.

Dude, thank you very much for that. And thank you to everybody on the panel. This was an absolute blast. and obviously all of you are welcome back anytime. And I get to see you guys in like three days or something, four days. I'm so excited. So I will be seeing you guys soon. And yeah, thank you very much for being on today.

No, thank you for having us. And especially thinking of me, I don't know about you guys, but this was my first panel. And it was fun. I was like, okay. I'm glad you had a blast. It's yeah, no, it's always awesome to be on one of these things. And it's, it's really fun to have everybody on and chat and get excited.

So thank you all very much. And I'm going to kill your audio video now. But again, I will see you guys in a few days. And thanks, guys. Thanks, man, so much. All right. Everybody's still watching. Thank you so much for joining me on Friday for Why Are We Bullish.

Again, favorite time of the week. I just get to hang out with Bitcoiners. Chill out. chat Bitcoin. What a dream. What a dream job. I can't believe this is what I do for a living. It's insane.

As always, like, subscribe, share. All those things really, really do help. If you want to help out the show in another way, you can always hit up these sponsors that I mentioned down below. Those are Shake Pay, Leden, Bit Refill, Keystone, Bill Fottle, they're all down below. Also, if you're looking to get tickets to the conference that we've been talking about,

a few days left, you can hit up B.TC slash conference. And, you know, they're not cheap tickets, but if you are getting some, you can use the code BTC sessions and you'll at least get 10% off. So if you're a straggler and you're just getting your tickets now, then hopefully that can help you out a little bit. And then finally, if you really liked what you saw, you can always drop me a Bitcoin tip at my strike page. That is strike.

me slash BTC sessions. You don't have to be a strike user to do so, by the way. But you get there, you type in any amount you want, you hit the tip button. You'll be greeted with a lightning invoice. Or if you tap to the right, you'll see a regular Bitcoin QR code. With that, I am out. Have yourselves an awesome weekend and often awesome day or evening, wherever we may be. I'll see you guys next time and possibly in Miami for your daily session. It's funny.