BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Zoomer and Boomer Bitcoiners UNITE! ep170

Episode Date: May 1, 2021

In a week of more athletes getting paid in Bitcoin and institutions like JPMorgan announcing Bitcoin funds, today’s similarly diverse panel of young and… well-established… guests riff on what has them feeling bullish 🐂. 👉 Gary Leland (AKA The Bitcoin Boomer): Host of the Crypto Cousins podcast, organizer of the annual BitBlockBoom conference, and advisor at Swan Bitcoin. https://twitter.com/GaryLeland 👉 Nik Cantmine: Social Media Manager at Bitcoin Magazine and host of the Bitcoin Kindergarten Live Q&A show. https://twitter.com/nikcantmine https://twitter.com/BTCKindergarten 👉 Surfer Jim: Lifelong surfer & entrepreneur seeking to advance worldwide adoption of the hardest money known to man. https://twitter.com/surferjimw 👉 William Clemente III: Finance major currently interning at Bitcoin Magazine and writing about Bitcoin and On-Chain Analytics. https://twitter.com/WClementeIII 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: LEDN Bitcoin backed loans –  get $25 free https://bit.ly/397rlLN Get Wasabi wallet for Bitcoin privacy https://wasabiwallet.io/ Cobo Vault: secure your Bitcoin! https://bit.ly/2GgMFlH BillFodl: get your wallet backups in solid steel. https://privacypros.io/btcsessions Bitrefill: use Bitcoin to purchase gift cards https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/?code=O04UMic9 LIGHTNING tips: https://tippin.me/@BTCsessions Audio-only version of the show: https://anchor.fm/btcsessions Telegram channel: https://t.me/btc_sessions

Wasabi wallet and fairly private. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the stream. Another Friday, another awesome episode of Why Are We Bullish. We got a killer panel today. We got Gary Leland. We've got Surfer Jim. We've got Nick Camp Mine and we've got William Clemente.

I hope I didn't just screw up his last name. But anyways, it is an absolute killer panel. I'm stoked to have everybody here. As always, this is live. can happen. So a quick disclaimer from my friend Bill here. We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live. And thing sucks. Now, always love having you guys here live in the chat. We're getting close to 100 people already in here. I see the chat starting to go. Make sure you hit us up with messages.

I'll be pulling them into the show live, of course. And, um, yeah. Be sure to smash that like button, give this a share and get even more eyeballs in here. But without further ado, of course, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. And this is your daily session. All right. So before we bring in our guests, we're going to take a quick peek at the market just to kind of see where we're at. Been a pretty good day. We were up like three and a half grand.

We're sitting around 57K. We are at $1. will buy you 1,753 sats continue to stack them while you can. 89.03% of all Bitcoin have been mined. And in terms of fees, next block is still going to run you about 157 sats per byte. If you're willing to wait around an hour, 29 sats per bite might do you. So you might want to exercise some of that low time preference if you're getting some transactions through.

And this weekend, keep in mind that there's going to be a downward difficulty adjustment. So blocks should come a little bit faster. weekends are tend to be slow. So maybe time to move around some Bitcoin if you need to do so and save on some fees later on this weekend. Keep that in mind. Before we grab everybody in, of course, shout out to sponsors to the show, lend.io, you can use your Bitcoin for a variety of different things there. So for me, it's mostly been if I need dollars and I don't want to sell my Bitcoin, but it's more of a cash flow issue. I can use something like their Bitcoin back loans where I can use Bitcoin as collateral to get Canadian or U.S. dollars into my bank account within a day.

And then when I pay back those dollars, I get back the same amount of sats, which is kind of the important number to me selling, of course, increased capital gains. And you're always worried about having a buyback at a higher price. So be sure to check them out. Of course, they've got their savings accounts and their B2X offering. Check it all out down below. Up next, we've got the COBOLT, one of my regularly used hardware wallets. I love it because it's 100% air-gapped, meaning you don't plug it into anything connected to the internet.

It's all done offline via QR code. And this thing is pretty badass when it comes to working alongside something like a cold card and a multi-sig setup. That's what I tend to use it for. Super easy to operate. So check it out. I'm using the pro just for reference with the fingerprint scanner and rechargeable battery. Links are below. Of course, I do live on Bitcoin.

One of the ways I do this is bit refill. They can get me pretty much any gift card I can imagine and I can pay on. or via Lightning Network, and I do earn SaaS back in the process, which is nice when you're already living on a Bitcoin standard. So be sure to check them out. And it does help with privacy a little bit as well. If you're using Lightning in particular and you're picking up gift cards, people can't see exactly what you're purchasing there.

And finally, please be careful backing up your wallets. Of course, paper may not be the best option, get it in something that keeps you some piece of mind like a piece of steel like the bill foddle over on Privacypro's. dot i.o uh you know fire damage water damage or just accidentally throwing out the paper uh i've heard some horror stories over the past year so be careful but with that let's uh get rid of this screen and let's start bringing people in we have gary leeland surfer jim we have will clemente and we have nick can't mind guys welcome to the show how you guys doing you're doing all right yeah yeah thank you for having us sweet uh awesome well i'm i'm stoked to have you guys

on. As always, this is why are we bullish. And here we go by the three R's. Really, really simple. We're going to give a reason why we're bullish. Then all of us together will riff on that reason. And then we'll rotate to the next person. So really, really, really simple, really, really casual. And of course, we've already got the chat going. So again, you guys that are in here like this, give us a share. And we'll pull in your messages. There's already, Nick has a face. He does. does indeed have a face. So, yeah, we'll be pulling those in. But I'm going to get us started with a reason for feeling bullish on my part.

And I don't want to be selfish here, but I kind of got two reasons. So I'm going to throw them both at you guys. And you can riff on whichever one you want. But just a couple of things catching my eye this week. So I'm just going to share my screen right here for a second because I have a couple things pulled up that I wanted to touch on. So one thing that has me bullish is the IRS is trying to get help hacking hardware wallets. And the reason that has me bullish is because it's only going to add to the resiliency and anti-fragility of Bitcoin and in particular privacy and security solutions

for Bitcoin. And so the part where they're talking about this, they're asking contractors to come up with solutions to hack wallets, in particular hardware wallets, in the interest of their investigations. And the quote here says, the decentralization and anonymity provided by cryptocurrencies has fostered an environment for storage and exchange of something of value outside of the traditional purview of law enforcement and regulatory organizations. There is a portion of this cryptographic puzzle that continues to elude organizations, millions, perhaps even billions of dollars exist within these wallets.

And then they go on to say that this may prevent the forfeiture and recovery of funds when it comes to anything they're trying to get their grubby little hands on. So that has me bullish because the more that you try to attack Bitcoin, the more resilient it becomes. And so I think that if they do find vulnerabilities, they'll quickly be patched and routed around. And we've seen stuff like this with Tesla contributing to BTC pay servers, responsible disclosures. This is a little bit more adversarial, but I think in the end, still a good thing.

The other thing that had me bullish was it's more of just like a gotcha around the shit corner happening. But there is this article that just dropped where they're talking about like Ethereum mooning to 10K. So I ran the numbers as any good Bitcoin or would. And so if Bitcoin only gets back to the all-time high, we just experienced a week and a half ago or two weeks ago to 64.5K, ETH would have to quadruple, almost quadruple in that time just to hit 10K. And then the bag holders from the top in 2017 would just break even on the amount of sats that they lost over that time frame. So literally, if you've been holding your Ethereum since the absolute top in terms of sats back in 2017, which was actually halfway through the bull run, you've been underwater for since mid-2017 and you would just break even.

Heath would have to effectively quadruple and Bitcoin barely move for you to break even. So again, just kind of crunching the numbers and showing that, you know, Bitcoin, just stacking stats is kind of the way to go. And I think that that can be lost on a lot of newcomers. But the more we go and we crunch the numbers, the more it becomes evident. And hopefully people will begin to see that over time. I think some people will have to be burned in the intern. But hey, what are you going to do?

So what I'm going to do is now is I'm going to pass it down the line. I'll let people give their thoughts on whether it be the IRS thing or the Ethereum thing. But Gary, I'll toss it to you. Do you have any thoughts on either? Well, I could go into both of them. But the IRS thing really gets me. I had not seen that yet. And I feel like I pretty much keep up all day with what's coming out in news.

But why does the IRS think they should be able to hire people to hack into our personal private items? I mean, if you can hack into a criminal's wallet, you can hack into anyone's wallet. I mean, why is that okay? hey, that's what's got me confused. Why would the government or anyone say, oh, yeah, let's let them learn how to hack into the bank's money, which I'm sure they can. But that's really got me confused. I don't know how bullish I consider it, but I have to agree with you, I guess that anything that attacked Bitcoin, you know, makes it stronger because that's just the way it is. So I guess I would go on that.

On the Ethereum one, my God, I don't understand these shit coiners. and the stuff that they believe. I just can't even understand it half the time. I mean, it seems like to me it's all pretty much black and white, but I guess so many of them are new that they don't realize what's happened before and what will happen again and how they'll lose if they just sat in Bitcoin instead of doing this wheeling and deal

and they probably would have made it ahead, which some people do make a lot of money in chip coins. But those are usually the people who are teaching other people how to make money in chick coins. seems to me. Yeah. So on both of those, I don't know how bullish

a second one is either. So I don't know about the bullish part. So I'm confused on the bullish parts, but I think they're really good articles. I think it's the just the contribution to people eventually making the right decision, I think, is my

angle that I'm taking. But I take your constructive criticism. Well, you know, I think all people who are new to Bitcoin, not all, I think about, but I think a large amount of people who are new to Bitcoin that come into Bitcoin, whether they came in in in 2017, 18, 19, 20, 21, they immediately want to go explore shit coins. And then when they lose a lot of money and have a lot of bags, then he realized they

should have stayed in Bitcoin to be able to. You know, so I think that's kind of a natural progression for a lot of people to think, you know, gosh, if this went from five cents to $56,000, maybe I can get one that'll go from five, six cents to $100. You know, so unit bias, yeah. Jim, how about you? Any thoughts on either the IRS thing or the, the lack of historical context for a lot of Ethereum fans? Yeah, it's weird to see an advertisement from the government for hackers. It seems odd, almost like a spoof.

But I would, number one, I don't think they can. do it. I think the encryption is too hard. So that's kind of silly. Anybody who would attempt it is probably not smart enough to do it because anybody's smart enough to do it, probably wouldn't want to because they know they're wasting their time and they may not want to work for the government either and help them out. So it's kind of laughable to me. So in a weird way, I kind of agree with you. It's bullish because the right people hear it and they go, okay, you know, let's just double check, you make sure across our T's and dot our eyes and make sure that, whoever they hire is not going to beat us.

You know, so the wallet manufacturers and whoever else has to do, you know, they're constantly working on it already. They try to hack their own stuff and they're smarter than these other dudes. So it's weird. The whole thing's weird. You know, Ethereum, what can we say? Ethereum is a joke to me. It's a big convoluted crazy contraption that they can change the rules as much as they want.

And in the end, they're moving tokens around that are trying to represent value. and it's pegged against U.S. dollars and other things. And they talk about smart contracts. They talk about all these things. But everything is tied to this token called ether, which is like a money or a thing of value. It's not the smart contract. The ether is not the smart contract.

So these other blockchains are trying to be money even when they say they're not. And all the trading and all the defy is just moving. moving Chuckie cheese tokens around between all of them that are, you know, they're given value because the market gives them value. But all the people involved are hoping for that $0.25 to $25. And I'm going to get rich just like those damn Bitcoinists did that would hide it from us. And they wouldn't tell us about it keeping it from us all those years. And now they're rich and we're not.

We're going to show them. It's just a joke. And so many other coins are on Ethereum. So when the underlying protocol is supporting all these other lesser crappy ones, it's just unfortunate. I think you're right. People new to the space are going to explore. I did it. I was fortunate enough to pay attention to very good signal while I was investigating.

And I didn't go very long investigating. I was luckily steered right back to Bitcoin very quickly. I did not lose my shirt in shit coins. And I just, I don't touch them. It's just not worth it. And you look at any chart compared to Bitcoin. It's one thing compared to the US dollar. But now go back and look at that thing you think it's so great and compare it to Bitcoin.

And you'll see how crappy it really is. You should have just bought the Bitcoin, right? We all know that. I love it. Let's pass it to Nick. Nick, what are you feeling on IRS slash the Ethereum thing? So for the IRS one, I think it's really bullish because it's going to expose maybe some weaknesses and some hard wallets that we couldn't see already and it's like a fresh new pair of eyes looking at it so

you know a lot of the people who are probably are have been doing this stuff for years or like people who work at manufacturing companies like working on these hardware wallets like you know you kind of like get into like the thought process of like you know how you go about things and like this just like i said brings in a whole new pair of eyes different way of thinking on how to crack this stuff And if they do crack it, it doesn't matter because it's going to produce better hardware wallets. I think a lot of people should be shifting over to multi-sig once they hit like a certain amount.

So it's like if you crack one hardware wallet like cool, it doesn't matter because your coins are in multi-sig. You know, you can just opt out that key, upgrade it or get a different one and you know, your money is completely safe. So I think it's bullish. I don't really see any downside to it. I like what Jim said. Like the people who know you can't really like do this stuff, like they're just wasting

their time. Like they could definitely better allocate their money and time than spending it on that. The whole Ethereum thing, it's so annoying hearing like the crypto traders on Twitter and like all the crypto people say, oh, Ethereum hitting new all time high, but it's new all time high in US dollars. It's not anywhere near all time high in BTC. like I saw a thing it was like and I trolled them from the Bitcoin magazine handle a little bit like Coin desk the block and a coin telegraph are all putting out articles saying like new all time

high and I like I went on the Eith versus Bitcoin chart and I like plotted those tweets in there and I was like are you sure it's on new all time high because it doesn't look anywhere near but yeah I think I don't really pay attention much to Ethereum outside of that like it's just a total scam. It started off as ETC, like Ethereum Classic, and then I went to Ethereum and now it's on Ethereum like 2.0 maybe and they're working towards

3.0 or they're working towards 2.0. It's all over the place. I've no idea which version they're on, but I think Vitalik said he's going to issue like another new version after that. So he's just trying to keep the Ponzi going. Yeah, buy this interim shit coin before I release my real shit coins. To me, the Ethereum Classic

fork to Ethereum, whatever, was enough to, I would think. That's why I say, a lot of those people just don't know what's going on because they're new, and they're just looking for that, you know, that shiny object, I think. Yeah, 100%. Nick, I'm glad you brought up multisig too. Somebody in the chat was like, would you even know if somebody cracked one key out of a two of three multi-sig and what could you use as an early warning system? Well, I mean, the thing is, if it's in multi-sig, unless somebody knows that particular

hardware wallet is part of a multi-sig, then they could crack it and see zero funds and not know that it's associated with a multi-sig because it wouldn't show them that vault unless they also had access to the vault backup. So effectively, like you could put like a decoy amount of Bitcoin in just the regular hardware wallet and then have your main stash in a multi-sig. And then if you see any of the three keys have a movement of those decoy funds, then that would be your early warning system. And then you could get all of the multi-sig out into a new multi-sig. So, yeah, I mean, you could set it up that way. And I think multi-sig is fantastic exactly for this use case, because if they do crack a single wallet, like you said, Nick, well, good for you, I guess.

But tough shit. The bonds are gone already. But yeah, let's get the last bit of thoughts here. Let's toss it to Will. Will, any thoughts on the IRS thing, on the Ethereum thing, whatever you want to add? Yeah, man, I don't have too much to add that these guys didn't touch on already. You know, I think the IRS thing is bullish because like Nick said, there are any flaws in these hardware wallets. They'll be exposed.

And then it'll also kind of, you know, wake up the importance of multi-sig and using the right hardware wallet at least. So I think that's a net positive. And then in regards to the Ethereum stuff, I mean, all Bitcoiners know that, you know, the unit of account that you're using really kind of opens your eyes to what's really going on. But I think from someone who is still operating in a U.S. dollar basis, like a lot of these traders, I think some of these coins, although obviously, you know, they're not a good long-term hold than anybody who doesn't know what they're doing shouldn't be trading in them. For some of these traders, they don't care about the fundamentals. They're just operating these low liquidity coins and they can kind of play around and manipulate the price. And while Bitcoin is either going down or going sideways, they can kind of, you know, they can get some more U.S. dollar returns in the meantime.

So I think when we see Bitcoin go sideways like this, that's when you really see a lot of traders flip over into these low liquidity coins. And you know, you see them start to pump. That's what it really is. traders are like, okay, Bitcoin's going sideways for a while. I'm not going to get much gain out of here. So I want to move it into these coins that I can artificially pump them myself. So, but yeah, anybody who, you know, retail traders, somebody who's just looking to buy and hold something for the long term, don't mess around and all that. Don't mess around in trading, especially. Don't use leverage, just buy Bitcoin and hold. I think that's what it really just comes down to. Nice. I love that. Yeah, you heard it. You hear you guys. It's so much easier to just

stack sats than to try and not only are you trying to outrun the capital gains if you're moving from Bitcoin to something else. You're trying to also outrun the performance of Bitcoin on top of the capital gains you just experience. So why fuck around with it? Why bother just stack sats and relax? But we're going to move on to our next reason for being bullish. Lots of people in the chat. Thanks for dropping them in here. I'm trying to pull them in as I see them. There's a lot of people in there though. And we're getting close to 300 people watching live. So give this a share, give this a like.

We'll get even more people in here. But we're going to jump over to Gary. And Gary, if you want to give us your reason this week for being bullish, I'd be more than happy to hear it. Well, you know, it's really, there's so many reasons to be bullish right now. You know, really, there's so much bullish news

coming out. It seems like every day. It's amazing to me that Bitcoin is going faster than it is because of the amount of bullish news. And I had two pieces of bullish news myself, but then I opened coin telegraph and saw something else I want to switch to. But I do want to say one of my pieces of bullish news is that my friend, sailor, Jim here, was attacked by Chimuth Patio, whatever the hell of the name is. I mean, when a bit coiner sitting there pretty much mining is a little bit of a little bit of

in business can get attacked to me viciously by a billionaire shit coiner, you know they're scared. You know that's positive for Bitcoin. And I haven't seen you since then, Jen, so I wanted to make sure. And that was just crazy to me. I mean, that was crazy to me. But that's the way shit coasters are, you know. And by definition, he's a shit coiner. Maybe he doesn't just doesn't understand.

So that was what I was going to go with. But also, I thought it was pretty bullish when Tesla sold off 10% of their Bitcoin this week. That necessarily wasn't bullish. But the fact that Elon said that he's never sold any his Bitcoin, I thought that was pretty bullish because we didn't know that Elon had any personal Bitcoin. But we should have known because my real reason for being bullish, sorry I have so many, my real reason for being bullish, I just opened up Colin Telgraf and saw this article, micro strategy sees up to 52% revenue surge as sailor. The man, the bull machine says, confirms more Bitcoin buys ahead. That's bullish to me.

This guy is the perfect example of a bull. I mean, and he's buying, I mean, is this guy got a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin and he's buying more? I mean, you know, that's a bullish sign to me. So that's my real one there. I love it. His dollar cost averages on like a biweekly basis put my entire lifetime stack to shame. It makes me a little bit sad. But that's okay.

I mean, there's definitely conviction there. And you can tell the people that have done their research in advance. Now, you know, I don't agree with Saylor on every aspect of how he views Bitcoin, particularly. it not becoming like a usable currency down the road and that it won't be replacing other things. I think that's just another stop along the road after store of value is like an absolute given for everyone. But his research into the kind of the base case for Bitcoin came along so much quicker

than most people that I've seen. but I guess it's because he was planning on putting skin in the game and he did. So good for him. I don't know. Let's toss it to Jim and see what he had to say about any of that, including what was the name that you gave somebody. I never can't remember his name. I can't pronounce his name.

I'm not being rude. I just have a hard time with the name. Chomoth, papaya. No, that's not his real last name. No, no. That was actually a couple weeks ago. but that was just weird. I was just upset with Bitcoin magazine,

not the magazine guys. I should be clear about that because Nick had nothing to do with it and some of the other great guys that I love over there. But the people doing the conference, I thought it was all Bitcoin. And then I heard he was a speaker and Novigratz was a speaker. And they got a lot of speakers. And they're not all like super loyal to Bitcoin like everybody on this call.

You know, so I don't know. I thought it was more like Gary's conference, the Big Block Boom conference. And I learned it wasn't. So I sent out an upset tweet about it, and then he answered. And the community rallyed behind me because they thought he was beating up a regular dude and he should know better and whatever. You know, he's supposed to be for the downtrod. And then he belittled me as if I was one of them.

But, you know, I don't know. So anyway, what Gary said about, what was it? Elon and Michael Saylor, you know, I thought it was weird that they, that Tesla sold some stock. but I can relate to the idea that they had to show their shareholders that they can sell whenever they need, and it was a profitable sale, profitable in dollars, right? I would not want to part with the sets myself, but they're a corporation and they have shareholders

and they've got regular people that don't get this yet. So I can get that, and what Gary said, that Elon didn't sell his own. That's obviously a good sign. And Michael Saylor, you know, relentless, what you said about the amount, he stacks in a day or a week. Oh, man, I just could dream forever. I'll never have that many. But what are you going to do? I'm very happy. I'm happy with what I have and I'm happy to be here.

And I don't know, it's hard to find not bullish news in my world. Maybe it's because I filter it. So I only hear the good stuff. But everything about Bitcoin is bullish to me. You know, what I think, though, on the Michael's on the Elon Musk, you know, situation about Tesla selling the Bitcoin. okay, let's say they were trying to prove this in board members or some attorneys or whatever, that it is a, they can move their money out of there as liquid. I think what's even more important is the example that it's set for other corporations who may be thinking about investing in the Bitcoin. And if that argument comes up or if that conversation comes up, yeah, this is make believe money. Can we get our money out of this Bitcoin when it goes up? Now, here's an example of a corporation taking not $100 or $1,000.

I mean a major amount of money in liquidating it very easily. And I think that's probably a pretty strong sentiment. The network didn't even react, right? Because it's not like they sold it like on the day it was announced. They had previously made that sale. And there wasn't like a sudden destruction of markets. They were able to liquidate it relatively easily. I think that's the reason we see these sideways trading action and some of the dips were seeing.

have expected us to just go on a steady upward trend, but there are people that are selling large amounts, and that slows the upward rise. And then you hear about it. So you're right. I think Tesla didn't buy a sell just last week. They sold and then they announced it last week. And when we saw the dip a week or two or three ago, it could have been part of that. Yeah, 100%. Nick, any thoughts on discussion here? Not on that discussion. No, no. What about the the surfer gym attack from Chmoth. Did you get to partake in that? Did you see it?

I stayed off Twitter that day. I saw it going on. I didn't want to get involved in the drama. Personally, my view is like he should not be acting like that. And Jim, the entire conference team was not happy with him, just letting you know, like, they were behind your back on that, just letting you know. One thing I would like to clear up is like speaking for myself, yeah, there are some speakers at the conference that I don't personally like and I personally don't think should be there. There are a lot of great speakers, though, and I think a lot of people have forgotten that.

You know, we got Chad Saylor, we got Senator Cynthia Loomis, we got, you know, Alex Gladstein. We got a really, you know, solid group of people there. And when all the people came up, when they agreed to come on and speak, like I was talking with the conference team about this because, you know, the Bitcoin magazine team, a lot of people have been blaming them. The Bitcoin magazine team is not the conference team, two different teams, two different goals. Like, you know, so, but when these people are on stage, they are only going to be talking about Bitcoin.

They're not going to be shilling any shit coin up there. I guarantee you they will probably, you know, in the after hours, like late at night when they're, you know, shilling shit coins, new. It's not like, we can't stop that. But like when they're on stage, like, I promise you they will only be talking about Bitcoin. And if they don't, we will deal with them. When BitClout, we'll see about that.

I think all of us are on BitCloud. I don't know how we got on there. I don't know. I don't know. I haven't looked. I've never been to the site. Yeah. Yeah. I think they just like copy and pasted everyone's Twitter over. And it's like they're trying to lure you in because like you have to sign up and verify it through your Twitter. And when you verify it through your Twitter, it tweets out that you verified it.

And they really try to suck you into it by saying, hey, look at this free money you can claim. don't claim it. Don't claim it. It's a total scam. Oh, man. Yeah. Let's, uh, how about you, Will? Do you have anything to add in regards to, uh, the frequency of, uh, sailor and musk's stacking, uh, anything along those lines? Yeah. So in regards to the liquidity test, um, I think that's a bullish thing. I think, um, Jim is right. Some of the selling that we saw in the last two weeks, um, did come from, Tesla and you can see that on-chain via the age of the coins that were sold. So the coins that were sold throughout the entire dip were actually really young coins.

So Glassnote has a metric called Coin Days destroyed. So the way you can think of this is if you have a coin in a wallet for one day, it has one coin day, right? If you have a coin in a wallet for 10 days and it doesn't move, it has 10 coin days. The second it's sold or moved out of the wallet, then those coin days are destroyed. And so you can look at that and then run a moving average over it, or you can take a ratio of it with the volume on the network. And you can get this metric called dormancy. And so dormancy was going down throughout the entire dip that we had throughout the last, whatever, two, three weeks. So what's that saying is that older, the older hands, the older coins weren't moving.

The coins that were being sold were new market participants, possibly hedge funds that were rebalancing at the end of the month, things like that. it wasn't long-term holders that were taking profits. So that actually paints a bullish picture because you're seeing weak hands, you know, holders without conviction selling into wallets that were older, right? So you see this trend of weak hands selling off into strong hands, which is bullish. And then in regards to the liquidity thing, I think, you know, that's very bullish as well. In the last 24 hours, we did, let me see, we did about 27% of volume is fake. So we did about $140 billion of volume across derivatives and spot.

You have to keep in mind all the leverage just got wiped out in the last week. So usually that number is a lot higher, right? So even though we really don't have any derivatives volume right now, that's still a lot of liquidity. Bitcoin's extremely liquid. And so Tesla's selling or any size sell like that really isn't moving the market as much anymore. especially if they do it in small increments. So I'm sure you all remember when Sailor had talked about when they buy, they make like micro buys, right? They make very small buys every couple seconds and they probably have some kind of like

algorithm doing it, right? And so that it doesn't, you don't see this huge spike in price, right? They don't just go on exchanges and then just market buy 200, you know, 200 billion or whatever, right? They do it in these very small micro transactions over time so that they don't really affect the price that much. And so I suspect that Tesla did the same thing and they're selling, which yet probably had something to do with the price decline. But I wouldn't say that it was solely them. And we also didn't see any huge price decrease, which aside from everything that had to do with the liquidations, which we can get into later on.

But as a general thing, I don't think it was mostly Tesla. It was probably hedge funds that were rebalancing. And then as well, just in general, you know, new market participants that just got freaked out, right? They're like, oh, this thing just dropped. I think we dropped like 15, 20 percent in an hour when we had all those liquidations. People probably freaked out. And they're like, all right, I'm just, I'm up, you know, I'm up to 300 percent on the year. I mean, in the last, you know, 12 months.

So I'm just going to go ahead and cash out here. And so we saw, you know, those strong hands coming and scoop up those coins. And did you, were you looking at the, I think it was like a five minute candle or something, the big spike. It was like a $1,500 spike within like a few minutes. Right around the time people were hyping up the rumor that Facebook had bought and then clearly they didn't. Yeah. So yesterday, right around 4 o'clock, I was sitting on the exchange liquidations because I'd seen all the stuff about Facebook. And you saw the speculators really rush in and they must have thought, you know, they were going to front run some big event.

and they're maybe expecting something like when Tesla announced they bought and we went up 20% in a day. So you saw all these speculators come in. And then we had this huge wave of within, I think 20 minutes, we had about $20 million worth of short liquidations. And that was what that huge spike up was in price yesterday right around 4 o'clock after the market closed and Facebook was about to report their earnings. And then right after that, we saw a big, not as big, but a big, long liquidation train within the next 10 minutes. So don't play with leverage. You heard it here first. I agree.

Awesome. Okay. Well, let's keep it running here. Lots of people in the chat still. Thank you guys all for being here between, we've got like 260 people watching live. Hit that like button. Give this a share. and let's keep rolling.

I'm going to toss it over to Server Jim here. Dude, please enlighten us. What has you feeling bullish this week? Oh, boy. I consume so much content and something just gets me excited every hour of every day that I couldn't think of one thing.

And I was just contemplating yesterday about Bitcoin, just sitting, just daydreaming. And I went, It's amazing. Bitcoin's still working. It just keeps going. So I just tweeted out, Bitcoin is still working. And, you know, of course, lots of people love that because it's just 10 minutes. It's like a heartbeat every 10 minutes. And then I started thinking about, well, how is it possible that this thing's still going like this? And it just makes me so bullish to think about the trail, you know, the the stumbling blocks that were overcome, the people that came and went, the people that came and stayed that were so. critical to the trajectory of Bitcoin and all the important things that have been done with the code and with all the support like the wilds, all these different things. Yeah, a giant ecosystem is 12 years and it's just grown immensely. And then you sit back and go, and it's like the tip of the iceberg.

Like so many people have no clue this is even really happening to any great extent. They might have heard about it, but they just don't know the significance yet. And boy, that is just so incredibly bullish. I don't know how you can't be bullish when you kind of get, you got to get to that point. But boy, when you do, you just go, oh, $60,000 Bitcoin's cheap as hell. What are you kidding me? Oh, compared to where it's going to be in 10 years for anybody young, like our Zoomers that are on this call. Oh, man, you get one Bitcoin.

You're going to be one of the wealthiest people in the world in 10 to 20 years. Like top 1%, hard to comprehend one Bitcoin. Less than 60 grand right now, 57,000. I'm looking at the chart. It's just, I don't know how I can't be bullish. I don't know how anybody can't be bullish. It's all those people that just don't know what Bitcoin is yet. And they're just clueless.

It's really, I don't know, man. I can't shut up about it. I know I piss people up because, no, look at this. Look at this shirt I got. Warning, may spontaneously talk about Bitcoin. Because that's what I do every day. I just can't shut up, man. I'm so freaking bullish.

I can't stop. I don't know. It's great. I love that. sentiment. It's so true. It's easy to forget when you're in the thick of it and you're just like on Bitcoin Twitter all day. But when you really step back and you just talk to like normie friends if they're still tolerable, if they're still tolerable, you know, like you talk to normie friends and you're like, we are so goddamn early. Like nobody has an inkling of how

important this is and how much it's going to change things. Like they still think of it. like a stock that just did well this year. It's totally true. They don't understand. You can tell them the words, it's a protocol for money. It's the best form of money humans have ever had. It's the tool all humans need. It's here.

It's going to change humanity. It's going to change incentives. It's going to reduce governments, reduce wars, bring about worldwide prosperity, give people much more free time. Prices of everything will come down. Like, it affects everything. They can't. They can't grasp any of that.

man, it's way too much. That's like a fire hose for everybody. They can't get that. Yeah. It takes a while. Yeah. It's it's hard to even fathom how how much impact this is going to have on the world. I don't know. Let's let's get a boomer or let's get a zoomer opinion on that. Let's let's dive down to to Nick there. Are you are you feeling what Jim is saying? Yeah. I remember when I first the very first day I found Bitcoin was either October and November 2017 around like $6,000 and it completely blew my mind and I looked up on Twitter. I just looked up either like Bitcoin or crypto because I looked up crypto probably because I didn't know better at the time. But I saw this tweet and it just like it it made me so bullish and like I was like, okay, I got to look into this. And the tweet was something along the lines of like, for all the newcomers, like, this whole ecosystem has been building right under your nose for the past like, you know, nine, ten years or whatever.

And you couldn't see it until now. And as I dug more and more deeper in the Bitcoin, I was like, holy shit, there's so much to this. Like, it completely, it completely changed the way I thought about so many different things. and I think that that happens to so many different people and like they're going to be so many smart and talented people who come into this space who have that like you know lightball moment like holy shit Bitcoin's here to stay it's going to change the world it's going to be revolutionary

I can get rich off of it at the same time so you know they have an incentive to get into it and they're going to come into the space and they're going to provide so much knowledge and value to the space. They're going to forward it so much. I can't wait to see whoever the next Jack Mallors is because he's going to do like extraordinary things. Like Jack Mallors did extraordinary things. I want even, you know, better than that.

And that's like, that's extremely hard to beat, you know. So also like when you get in to Bitcoin, it's like the even more bullish thing is it's like we are so early that, but like there's still so much upside. And you got to act fast, especially in a bull run, because like a few weeks ago or months ago now, maybe, like one of my friends I grew up with hit me up. And he was like, dude, should I buy Bitcoin? I don't know. It's, it's $34,000. You know, should I just buy Doge instead?

And I was like, no, stay the hell away from Doge. Just buy Bitcoin. He didn't buy Bitcoin. And now we're at, what, $57,000? Like, it's like Bitcoin. you can't wait for it and it's like Bitcoin is just screaming at you like I'm important pay attention to me and a lot of people aren't but I think as number goes up like Jim was saying it's just going to attract so many eyeballs and so many people are going to get into it get completely fascinated and obsessed

with it and then they're just going to want to talk about it all day every single day 24 seven Will, what do you do when everybody is talking about it all day, every day, but that's because they're just using it and dollars don't exist anymore? What's your schick after you can't examine the Bitcoin charts anymore as your thing? It's a good question, man. I don't know what I'm going to do with myself and I can't stare at the glass dough charts all day long. I guess you still could.

I mean, you'd be more of an economist. a better economist than we have today for Fiat, right? Yeah, you know, the cool thing is about the on-shane data, this is the way you can kind of think about it. If you could right now see everybody transacting, like everybody on the street handing each other $20 bills, $5 bills, and you could see all of that transparently on a ledger and you could cluster all those different entities that behave the same, different ages of them, you know, how convicted they are in holding their money. like how, how heavily they save or are they just spending the money as soon as they get it. You can track all of these things through the on-chain data, right?

And so as, as, you know, Bitcoin becomes more relevant and becomes, as we all believe, the global money, you'll be able to track the behavior of all the, and I don't say this in a way of forensics, right? Because we have like chain analysis who they actually are going through and figuring out who you are and the behavior of what you're doing. but we can get a general trend of the behavior of different entities without knowing your identity and seeing the behavior of what the economy is doing. So I find that fascinating. In the sense of we are just talking about the upside, you know, we have to remember we tend to get caught up like we were saying in our little Bitcoin echo chamber, right? And if there weren't people on the other side of the trade, there would be no upside.

If the majority of people weren't on the other side of the trade, there wouldn't be the giant upside that there is. So I think in a way you have to look at that as a good thing. And also I kind of see it as a filter, right? Because the people who do their due diligence, excuse me, and actually do their homework, when we get on the other side of this thing, they're going to be the ones that had adopted Bitcoin earlier on. And they're going to see the price appreciation, right? So in that regard, I see Bitcoin as this huge filter to filter out all the people that, you know, they just want to do these get rich quick schemes.

They just want to know, you know. What do I buy, right? And nobody cares about actually looking into why, you know, sound money is important, all these things that Bitcoiners have researched and, you know, put in hours of listening to podcasts, reading articles, scrolling through Twitter all night long, you know, going down different rabbit holes and understanding things. And so those people are going to get filtered out. Those people are going to be on the laggard end of the adoption curve, right?

And so when we get to the other side of this thing, the people that are going to be able to allocate capital are going to be people. that are critical thinkers and independent thinkers as well. Gary, what helped you get over that hump when I don't necessarily see as many boomers that have the type of epiphanies that you and Jim do here? What was it for you? Well, for me, it took me, I think, the typical three times. I missed it at 100 and I missed it at 1,000.

but luckily I got into three thousands you know and started so I blessed my stars that I saw it the third time but it you know the first two times it was explained to me as online stocks and I'm terrible with stocks I've lost so much money doing online stocks that when I heard it I was like ah forget that now at the first time the first person would have explained it as an internet protocol I would have sat down and listened to a little longer you know but it wasn't explained that way so um in my opinion But, you know, I've noticed so many of my boomer friends now are moving into Bitcoin. And I, a lot of my friends are doing well financially. So I'm having friends $10,000, $20,000, $100,000, $150,000 worth of purchases as their first purchases. So let's face it, a lot of boomers, you know, have been paying on their money. and they've got some in savings and they've been investing it. And like I said, the people I talk to are putting money into Bitcoin. And maybe I talk them into dollar cost averaging.

You know, like I have a good friend of mine. I put into dollar cost averaging and with Swan over there. And I think he started with $100 a week or something like that. Next thing I know, he told me, I talked to him a month later and it was at $500. And I talked to him a month later and he bought $100. hundred thousand, you know. Yeah, so he kind of saw it move pretty quickly. And he's still buying.

He's going, hey, you know, called me the other thing goes, how low you think this is going to go? I want to get some more. And I said, well, I would think that if it got to 54, that would be the bottom. And so I don't know. I haven't talked to CB Box. I think it got to 57 maybe. So I'm not sure if he got any enough.

The thing is he's way up. And he started buying in, right before Christmas, I think. You know, he made his big purchase right before Christmas, and he's way to hell up. So people, I think, have a hard time realizing how early they are. And that's the big thing.

And I'm like, Jim, oh, my gosh, I can't go to a place. Don't ask me about Bitcoin if I've met a party or an event. And I'm kind of like going, I'm sorry. I'm probably giving you way more information than you wanted to have. If you just were wanting to know,

how is it doing or something? And then an hour later, I'm like, through with him. But I think that's the thing is people have got to, at some point, there's going to be a point where they realize that they're not late. Because as I always say to them, when I talk to them, they say, am I late? I go, you know, the people who bought it 100 said they were late because they could have got it at a dollar. And the people who bought it at 1,000 said they were late because they could have got it at $100. And the people who bought it at 10,000 said they were late because they could have got it at $1,000.

Literally, no one. one's bought it pretty much and said, you know, this is the best time in the world to buy this stuff. I'm really early. They don't say that. I didn't say that. Jim, no one's, you didn't say that when you want your first one. But you went. No, it was expensive.

Yeah, you understood the deal. You understood the value. You understood the proposition that was being offered to you. And you went for it. And you were right. And you knew you were right when you went for it. And then when you've been in it for a while like we have, you know, when you see it go from in 2017 from 19.

thousand down to under 4,000 and then you go back up to in the 60s you know you're going okay nothing's facing me anymore you know and I'm yeah nothing's great my wife didn't see all that happened you know that was all behind the scenes that's a good thing yeah well yeah it's a good thing it was but now it's really kind of funny because she'll see it go from what was it like 65 few weeks ago or a month ago down to 56 or whatever she's going what's happening I said, you just got to get used to this. I said, what are you going to do if we have to drop down to 30, honey? You're going to have a heart attack.

You just need to get used to this. But like I said, we're early. And I'm on Jim's thing. And I just think that the more people that can get into, what I think is what every damn, you know, Maxillus is going to think. You know, so I'm not going to go on any further because everybody knows what I'm saying. Yeah, I agree. everybody everybody always thinks they're late when they first start but nobody is ever late is really the rationalization here no one is ever late you're never too late to get what if i just tagging real real quick yeah um so so glass note has this metric and it's called entities right so they basically just cluster together different addresses and and they say okay they you know they like really smart way smarter than any of us like data scientists clustered

together these addresses and saying, okay, that looks like one entity, that looks like another entity. And so then you can plot out these entities basically on what looks like a logarithmic adoption curve, right? And so if you plot that out into the future, and probably by 2024, 2025, we're on track to have about a billion entities on the Bitcoin network. So one entity can be one of us, right, with a hardware wallet. It can also be a corporate treasury. It can be, you know, any kind of institution, family office, right? But we're on track for a billion entities by 2024, 2025. And then if we follow that logarithmic curve out, in the next two years, we're on track for another billion. So like we're all saying, you know, it's hard for, it's hard for humans to

really wrap their minds around exponential patterns. And that's what we're seeing here. It's, it's a, it's a network effect. And these things are exponential. They're not linear. And so it's hard for a lot of people to really wrap their minds around, you know, I can't buy this thing here, it's so high. And then it, you know, it doubles, triples in the next month or two, because the amount of, and if you're just looking in the last couple months, we're seeing like this huge parabolic just shoot right up in both users, like the entities I was referring to. You can also like call them users if you want to. And also accumulation addresses. So addresses that have received at least two funds, I'm sorry, at least two transactions,

but they've never released their funds. So they're just, just steadily stacking. And we're seeing this huge parabolic increase in both of those metrics. So we're kind of in. Each cycle has this like parabolic stage of adoption about midway through the cycle. And we're seeing that. And that's just going to keep persisting until Bitcoin takes over as global money. And, you know, it's just so early. And it's hard for people to really wrap their heads around it. But we're just at the beginning of that S curve, right? You know, you think about technology and adoption curves. We're right at. at the beginning of that S curve.

Yeah, 100%. It's going to be crazy to watch a play out. I don't know how everybody's going to handle it, and they're all going to handle it differently. And I'm curious to see, I'm a little worried about how some of my friends will handle it, because I feel like some friendships will flourish, and others will potentially be destroyed.

unfortunately. But, you know, some people just lean certain ways and, you know, want to paint what I view as one of the best innovations that will help propel humanity into the future and make us the most efficient that we possibly can be. But people don't want to hear it if everything isn't equally divvied out to everybody. I suppose. So, hey, we're going to keep it going, though. I want to keep it upbeat.

Again, we've got tons of people in here. Hit that like button, give this a share. Lots of people in the chat. Keep that up. Keep those messages coming in. We're going to toss it to Nick. We're going to get his reason for being bullish this week. Take it away, dude.

So my reason for being bullish this week is this either happened. I think it happened last week. the mayor of Jackson, Tennessee announced that he was going to look into adding Bitcoin mining to the balance sheet of the city as well as pay their employees in it. Now, I can tell he is very new to the space because there's just a certain style of way you talk about

the space and like crypto and Bitcoin. You can just tell he's new. Plus he was talking about like Ethereum and like and stuff. I'm going to give him a little pass because he's new and he's figuring himself out. I know I went through a shit coin phase. You know, he's just going to go through his.

But it is pretty damn bullish to have yet another mayor of a city who's a bitcooner and is trying to adopt a Bitcoin standard. And it's like, I'm so young. And I am looking at my future and like, where do I want to live when I'm older? I can tell you who I don't want to live around and live with. I don't want to live with a bunch of commies.

I don't want to live with a bunch of socialists. That's for damn sure. I want to live with other Bitcoiners and other like-minded people who have the same values and beliefs as me. And I think as more and more cities and states adopt Bitcoin and people start to live on a Bitcoin standard, they think, you know, like on a Bitcoin standard. like all the commies are going to be driven out because they're going to be like oh bitcoin you know uh it's boiling the oceans you know it's it's doing this it's doing that like they literally like

they let i put out a tweet about this earlier like everything that they uh blame bitcoin for that's what the current system does like the current system is so corrupt and awful and just doesn't work and like they blame that for being bitcoin and like i don't want to be around that i want to be around on more like-minded people. So when I think of like, okay, where do I want to build my dream citadel after, you know, we moon and like over the next 10 years, it's like my options are opening up to where I want to go. And like my, the competition between states and the U.S. is going to come back thanks to Bitcoin. And it's like they're going to want my business.

And it's like, well, if you're going to want my business and you're going to want my business and you're going to want me spending my Bitcoin there, like, I'm going to step back and I'm going to see who's going to treat me the best. And I'm going to go and vote with my money and vote with my feet on whoever is going to treat me best as a citizen. Yeah. Well, we're seeing the sovereign individuals start to play out, right? You're seeing, I mean, it started with the most nimble, which is individuals. Then it moved to now companies and treasuries are cluing in, but also municipalities cluing in. I'm wondering what the first U.S. state is going to be to say that they're starting to think

about putting Bitcoin into treasury. I mean, maybe Wyoming, maybe Texas, maybe Florida. I don't know. Do you have money on any particular one? I got my money on Texas. I think Texas probably. Texas, Florida, Wyoming are all good shouts. Tennessee, I think, is kind of under the radar.

but I see what's happening in Tennessee, and I think Tennessee can definitely be a state that does it. Definitely won't be California. Won't be California. It won't be, you know, Portland. Is that a state? I don't know. Oregon, yeah.

Yeah, but I'm bullish on states that are adopting Bitcoin. It's very, very bullish to see. Like, if you would have told me when I got into Bitcoin that I'd see this, this quickly, I wouldn't believe you. Like, when I got into Bitcoin, people were saying to me, like, dude, you know, the institutions are coming, right? Like, institutional buyers are going to be buying this stuff. And I'm like, I'll believe it when I see it, you know.

And now it's like, oh, another mayor adds Bitcoin to their balance sheet. Okay, you know, when's the next one? Yeah, 100%. Gary, what are your thoughts on kind of this progression of Bitcoin ownership going through all of these different phases from individuals to companies to now small level governments. Where do you see this going? Well, I think this is a natural progression. Then we start seeing states and then we start seeing countries and then it's over.

But I don't know if Texas will be the next one to make it into treasuries. For a city in Texas to have Bitcoin in their treasury or to have anything in their treasury, there's a Texas Treasuries Act or something. I know I don't have the name right. And it lists on it what a city can invest their money in. And it's an old act. So Bitcoin is not on this list. And in Texas, the government only meets every two years.

And it's finishing up right now. So I want to meet again. They'll have all next year off. So I would think that someone else with that amount of time would leapfrog ahead. of Texas because they may not have that act in that state or tech they may be able to buy Bitcoin in that state where right now I've had a talk with the mayor we were talking about it and they said until you get this act taken care of we our hands are tied he goes if you look at the list that's very short what the list can do now Texas though on the other hand has going through

the house right now a bill to make Bitcoin accepted as legal tender and I think some other cryptos too So they are moving just that particular scenario of holding Bitcoin as a treasury is not being acted unless the state can do something different than cities can do, which I don't think they can, but I'm not an expert on that. But I have talked to a few people who are about the bill, and they've all agreed, yeah, that cities can't buy it. But yeah, I think that it's just a matter of time. And I think people have said this forever. small people, big people, corporations, states, countries, then it's over. You know, and then the game ends. And now, and I think we're even starting to see some countries, you know, that there aren't flaunting it. But I think a lot of people say that what, Iraq,

North Korea, Venezuela, and there's probably some other countries mining it. I was surprised with the way the United States, you can just print as much money as they want. They just don't print another couple trillion to buy a buttload. I mean, when it hurt, They can just, they don't have to worry about mining it. They can just bring a gun with $3 million. Now, Jim, what do you think in terms of, you know, how does this play out in the end? Like, does it, does it get to country level and it's all over? Do central banks just throw in the hat?

Do they start adding to treasury or did they, is it like, is it like tooth and nail fighting to the very end? What do you think the end game is here? Oh, I have a lot to say about this, but before I say anything, I feel like you skipped Will. Yeah, well. And he's supposed to go next with his most bullish. And so if he responds to Nick, he's going to go twice in a row. But I don't care. It's your show.

All good. Let's get Will's thoughts. And then we'll jump to Jim. And then we'll jump back to Will. Isn't Jim nice to really help you out there? I know. So cordial. Let's go ahead and let Jim go, to be honest, because I'm going to go off on a whole tangent,

and it's going to take the conversation in a whole other direction. So let's let Jim go first, and then I'm going to start rambling. Your response right into your bullish rant. So there you go. So to answer your question, I find it interesting how we all do this. We talk about states. We talk about governments. We talk about these entities that only change, that only do things after a human being

makes a decision. So it always, always, always blows down to some people somewhere saying, do this, don't do that, other people taking orders, believing they must, getting paid to do whatever they're told. So when you say a government, it's going to put Bitcoin on its ballot sheet. So a couple of things are going to happen. The people who do that are going to have to figure out what to do. They're going to have to figure out, okay, if we do this, we're sticking our necks out. We got to figure out how to hold it. So custodial solutions will get big. Then they've got to figure out how to spend it and then the accountability will start because it can be made much more accountable. So now these people that used to skim off the top and pay their buddies under the

table and do all this crap that government gets away with, they're all going to go like, oh shit, we can't get away with that anymore. What do we do to ourselves? We shot ourselves in the foot. We tipped over our own gravy train and we're now going to starve. Oh, so this is the beginning of shrinking governments. They won't be able to get away with the same crap. It's perfect. And I hope they all decide to do it. And why would a central bank do this? There are people running the central bank. They'll do it because they will then steal it. They will divvy it up amongst themselves. Why would a central bank buy Bitcoin when they could print as much money as they need in the crappy fiat currency? Because the humans that run it are going to figure out, oh shit, the jig is up.

We got to get some of this other money before they come after us with pitchforks because we're gonna. They all deserve to be hung or in jail forever or something. They've destroyed lives across the planet for over 100 years. The central banks are the central banks and the central bankers are the most evil people at the top of all of this. It's just absolutely disgusting. We are tax slaves to them manipulating currency we are forced to use. The jig is up. you bastards.

I wanted to say something else. But yeah, you're going down, man. I might not get to see it. But Will and his generation, his kids and grandkids, they're going to live in a much better world. I am so excited for you guys, man. It's going to be good. I love me a good Jim rant.

That was great. Let's toss it to Will. Will, feel free to take whatever tangent you like with this. Yeah, so firstly to respond to, you know, what Jim was just saying. I completely agree. You know, a lot of big corners want this stuff to happen within the next five, ten years. But it might take a lot longer than a lot of us expect that this might take to play out, right?

And we just kind of have to just stay the course. If we look at just the history of different empires or fiat currency, sometimes even though clearly, you know, they're flawed all along. It takes a lot longer than you would expect for the collapse of them actually to play out. So, you know, I hope Jim's around. for it. So he can see what he wants to happen. But yeah, there's always a possibility that I might be, you know, I might be the age of some of these guys when, when this stuff plays out. So time will tell. But if you think of it just as this natural state, you know, of the way things flow, I mean, eventually, eventually they're going to have to, eventually they're going to have to give up their way to,

give up their way to the inevitable Bitcoin adoption that we know is going to happen. And then to get to my point about why I'm bullish, obviously I'm going to start ranted about the data here. But what I'm seeing on chain is just the fact that coins are being moved to a liquid addresses. So what that means is that so glass node clusters, we were talking about the entities earlier. They cluster them into liquid, highly liquid, and illiquid, right? And so 78.3% of Bitcoin supply is in these entities that are labeled illiquid.

So they have no history of selling. So like Glass node looks at these entities. They say, okay, you have on average, you move like a very marginal percentage of your coins. You know, on aggregate, you're just continuing to buy and nothing's coming out. You're just like a black hole, right? And so 78.3% of coins are either lost or they're in these entities that have no history of selling. And throughout the last year, especially since, you know, midway through

March when we had the liquidity crisis, we've just seen this insane drawdown in liquid supply, meaning like these strong hand holders that have no history of selling just completely are just scooping coins off the market on levels that we've never seen before. And so, you know, obviously there need to be some big players in there. It's not just all the PLEBs at this point, you know, the liquidity and the size of the market cap we have now. It needs to be institutions and those kinds of players that are doing this to really make a big impact on the charts that I'm looking at. So I think it just goes to show you after March when we had this huge liquidity crisis,

people began to really kind of change the way that they behaved with Bitcoin as an asset and really started to recognize it as this kind of, you know, macro, you know, legitimate inflation hedge. And, you know, throughout all bull runs, you see liquidity go up over time. So, you know, people are selling out or they're trading, doing all this in and out stuff, right? But what we're seeing is just consistently throughout this bull run and just completely coins are just moving right into these strong hands. Every dip is just getting bought up by these really strong hands. So it's very bullish because, like I said, these addresses have no history of selling.

So, you know, that's a really good thing to see. and people talk about is this cycle different? Well, in a lot of ways, the behavior of the holders that we're seeing is different, right? People are behaving completely different, especially in a bold market. You know, obviously you see accumulation in bear market, but never to this scale in a bull market. So if, you know, let's say, you know, towards the end of the year, usually I think what happens is someone like people have to pay taxes or rebalance in December. And that's why we usually see the bull.

run die down at the end of the year. But, you know, when you're talking about institutions are very bureaucratic, sorry. So they, you know, they take three to six months plus for them to go from deciding, okay, we're going to take a position in Bitcoin to actually being able to make that buy. Right. So the, we had this rare opportunity as PLEBs to front run all of this money that's probably coming in towards the end of this year. Right. And there's nothing they can do about it, you know, and they're just watching the price run away. but they have to go through all these hoops and regulatory things to jump through. And so if we get to the end of the year when the cycle would normally die down

and we see then this huge wave of money come in then. By then, they're probably going to foam-mo in because they wanted to take the position six months ago and Bitcoin did 5x, 10x by that time. We might see, my base case is kind of a double pump like we saw in 2013 where we see, you know, this huge parabolic increase and then just based off of the fact that I was just saying institutional money probably won't come in until Q3, Q4. And so that's when I really see this huge second spike up. And who knows, you know, we might see a prolonged bull market just based off of the data and the behavior of the market participants because these people

are not selling. And even the newcomers, and not recently, but like in, in late last year, a lot of that was probably Michael Saylor. But these, I know I'm kind of contradicting myself because earlier I said it was the newer coins that were selling, but I'm talking like the last couple months, but the last like three to six months towards the end of last year, those holders, they're not selling. And the ones that are just steadily accumulating. So yeah, I think it's very bullish setup for the end of the year. I'm done.

That was great. I like that the sentiment of the average PLEB is infecting institutions, right? Because, I mean, that's kind of the playbook of the PLEB is just stack and never sell. You just accumulate and you just try to accumulate this pristine beautiful sound money, this pristine collateral that you never want to part with. and you just accumulate. The number that matters is not the dollars, but rather the number of sats in your wallet.

And so to see that playing out and people that are stacking, four institutions getting that, people like Elon saying, well, you know, we tested liquidity, but like, no, we're going to continue to stack sats, whether it be on the balance sheet or through the accumulation through selling vehicles and accepting Bitcoin as payment, that will continue. to go on to our balance sheet. I love seeing stuff like that. I love seeing Sailor

drop insane amounts of money going like balls deep right out the gate and then continuing to DCA afterwards. Like it's it's so funny because you would have thought, well, there's this position and no, he's never done. And I can't wait to see more of that. But Gary, do you do you see this playing out in your circles as well? Yeah, I do. But I'm speaking of Sailor, she said what always gets me about him as a quote i think i read where he or saw on tv where he said he bought his bitcoin before micro strategy did um his personal of bitcoin and he bought 17 000 bitcoin or something and woke up at night in a sweat because he thought he didn't buy enough he was scared he didn't buy enough so anytime i hear something talking about michael bion and i'm going

oh my gosh you're more bitcoin than i could ever think about buying me wakes up in his sweat thinking that he didn't buy enough and then he goes to starts buying it with this company. You know, the thing you were saying a few minutes ago, well, about the people or the companies, you know, taking a while to make their decisions to buy Bitcoin and then not selling their Bitcoin quickly because it takes them a while to do. I think you were saying, how is that affected with the new capital gains taxes that are coming out?

Doesn't that even reinforce hotling, you know, the Bitcoin, because no one wants to pay those high capital gain taxes? Yeah, I'm completely on board with you. I think it's one of those things. It's short-term bearish for the people that are going to get freaked out by, but it's very long-term bullish because I think it has this huge incentive for people just to hold on to their coins, right? Why would, or at least just borrow against them?

We have all this infrastructure now where you can borrow against your coins. So, yeah, I think that's bullish as well. And just to, it's very short, but just to tap in on what you're saying about Sailor front running, we saw the same thing with Tesla in the on-chain data, right? Like the week before Tesla bought, you can track like the stable coin flows to exchanges. And Tesla bought about one and a half billion dollars, right? We saw over $3 billion of tether was moved in the week before Tesla announced. And that was like the all-time high spike we ever saw by far.

So someone had some kind of knowledge or it was like Elon and his executives or something. but someone was front running them as well. So, yeah, I think you bring up an interesting point there that not only are we seeing the institutions, right, but it's the people that are front running the institutions as well. Yeah, and I don't know, maybe it's not illegal in Bitcoin where it might be in the stock market, but I feel like they can say, okay, this is going to happen. I know the giant purchase is getting ready to be made. I'm just going to go ahead and buy some and take advantage of it personally because it's not illegal for them to do.

so you get more Bitcoin taken off the table. I love it. Jim, do you think that Pleb culture is infecting institutions? Do you think they're taking a page from your book and others' books? I think that, you know, again, you have to think about the fact that it's always individuals making individual choices, even if it's on behalf of an organization. So some people see the memes and they see the laser eyes and they, some people are getting curious and they'll tune into this broadcast.

Some of these people are in government. Some of them are in securities trading and all kinds of, you know, yeah, we have an effect actually now. I think we really do, us crazy maximalist, toxic, whoever, whatever you want to label us. I don't think it could, well, I don't think it could be stopped at all. I don't think anybody could ever stop Bitcoin at this point. But it really is starting to seep into the general regular culture. And those are some of the same people that run those other big institutions.

Or they're at a holiday dinner with somebody who's raving about Bitcoin and they're like thinking, how that again. And then maybe their relative says something that clicks and they're like, uh-oh, I better go into the office next Monday and take a look at that a little more serious. So one by one, people are going to get it and whatever it takes. And sometimes it's some toxic pleb meme or whatever. You know, it's not going to stop. That's for sure. Hey, while I'm talking here, I really was curious about Will. I know that you do a lot of this analysis.

You're a young guy. You talk very eloquently and very intelligently about this space for so few years in it. I'd be curious if Ben wouldn't mind a minute or two introduction about it. how did you get involved in finance at such a young age? And then how did you click into this chart analysis stuff? You know, it seems like a specialty of yours and you seem pretty good at it. So I just haven't heard your story. So I don't want to take up the thing here.

But no, go. I was curious. Sure. So thanks for the kind words, first of all. Yeah, so around last year, you know, when the big liquidity crisis hit, I was like every other kid just looking and I was like, everything looks cheap. Let me make a couple of, you know, quick bucks here. And, but I, I didn't want to just, you know, all my buddies were just blindly throwing

their money into stuff. And I wanted to really understand what I was doing because I'm somebody who, um, I'm very skeptical. So if I'm going to do something, I really want to understand it, right? And so I started looking into like different types of investing and what really clicked with me was the, uh, you know, the kind of like free cash flow based value investing, where you're just predicting cash flows into the future. I thought that was like very logical. But what happens is, is you come to realize that you're making the assumption that the measurement that you're making calculation with is sound money, right? And it's not, it's like you're measuring a house with the ruler stick that's changing every day. It's insanity.

And so that's what really led me down the rabbit hole to, you know, what is sound money, you know, what's the most sound form of money that exists? And then that really led me towards Bitcoin. So I think I bought my first Bitcoin in like the end of August. And then since then it was just you know, should be dive down the rabbit hole. And then I ran into, I'm sure everybody's familiar with Willie Wu. He's kind of like the pioneer in the on chain analytics space. He made like, you know, over half of the metrics that I'm even looking at. So he's been a huge influence on me. I've just kind of like watched every video of him that I could get my hands on. I've been home from college. So I've been just kind of stuck in the house. That probably has a big, you know,

piece of it, the fact that I've just been on my computer all day long. But yeah, Willie Wu, a lot of him, and this guy, David Poil, as well, he's a pioneer in the on-chain analik space. But like I said, I just find it fascinating because, you know, you can track everything that's going on. You have in traditional finance technical analysis where you're drawing lines or you're using moving averages, which, you know, they work sometimes, right? But your lines don't matter if a whale wants to step in and, you know, buy a billion dollars of Bitcoin. Your lines are just going to get completely invalidated, you know. No one cares about your-models are destroyed.

Yeah, exactly. So the interesting thing about the on-chain is that you're actively tracking the capital flows. And it also, so, for example, like Plan B has a stock. to flow model, right? And it says 2-88, right? That's his average value for the thing. But, you know, the models that I'm looking at, I have the benefit where I can say, okay, well, my predictions are changing day to day based off on what I'm seeing in these different, the models that I'm looking at. So I can kind of actively change my prediction based off of this, you know, what I'm seeing in the data day to day to day because it's changing constantly. And you can really get a good sense of,

you know, everybody's bearish last. week, right? And everyone's like, oh, we're going down. We're going to go way further. We're going to go, you know, down to 30K or something. And all the on-chain valuations, there was really strong on-chain support at 47K. And so I was like, this thing's not going down 47K. It's not that I'm like really smart or anything like that. It's just I'm looking at these models and these models are saying that that's the floor. So in that sense as well, it kind of, it gives me affirmation that, you know, you have, this asset that's kind of going exponential, but the capital flow is completely backing that up. And so when people talk about Bitcoin's a bubble and all these different things, it's not

because the capital flows are completely backing that up. And when you can see that, then it makes you know even more convicted on that asset. But thanks for asking. I'm glad he did. Yeah, it is interesting. It could be, again, you're basing it not on just, you know, not just on trying to interpret a chart, but rather actually seeing where money is going and what's happening with actual analytics there. These are all things Bitcoiners intuitively know, right?

Like all the plebs know that all these things are happening. Like the dips get bought up and, you know, the cycles far from over. And they all intuitively understand what's going on. But to kind of see the nuts and bolts of what's actually making that work is very fascinating. Yeah, 100%. I'm going to, I'm going to, I know Nick. you've been listening for a while. I know there was a lot of shit discussed in between.

I'm just going to let it. If you have thoughts on anything, whether it be the previous topic or anything that will just dove into in terms of like analyzing on-chain stuff, feel free to chime in. Yeah. One of the things like he said at the very beginning talking about like is a cycle different. I think one of the things that our boys. Dylan BTCization brought up in an article he wrote recently he was talking about how this cycle can be different because when you get up to the top like or

throughout the cycle and you know just throughout like Bitcoin in general like people don't need to sell Bitcoin they can just take out a loan against it to you know fund whatever they want and then over time as long as they don't take it out as like the top of the market and we crash back down like they're not going to get liquidated and they can just keep taking loans out against their Bitcoin and you know finance their lifestyle by a car, buy a house, do whatever they want. And that's just less and less Bitcoin off the market, you know, no more people just dumping their Bitcoin because they think it's, you know, some Ponzi scheme or like not a, you know, they think it's fake money or,

you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever your reason may be. Bitcoin is just cemented itself as like, you know, a huge financial asset now. And people really, really want it. There's extremely high demand for Bitcoin. We're going to see, you know, huge prices. And I don't look at like any on-chain stuff myself. I know Dylan sends me a bunch of charts and stuff. And they're all super bullish.

And after Will's talk, like, Will, I'm just curious, like, what's your price prediction for the end of this year? Like, you can get as stupid bull tart as you want or just, like, you know, put me in my place and say something not that high. Well, like, I'm curious to, like, to your thoughts. I got to say, at least 300K. I think that's kind of at this point. That's kind of conservative, I think.

I mean, I don't want to throw out some crazy numbers because then people are going to hold me to it. but 300k is very reasonable. If you're right, you're going to be like the whiz kid of Bitcoin. You're going to be on all the talk shows. How did this young kid call it? We got the recording right here. We can play it. Let's get a gym prediction.

What do you think? Oh, man, I'm not good at this stuff. I want to believe. You said you're so far for it. Yeah, right? I want to believe so much of this analysis, the stuff that Will looks at. I watch Willie Wool all the time.

You know, I listen to traders. I just like to hear what they say. I don't trade myself. I listen to all the smart people talking about all the ancillary effects that are out there, the big businesses that are going to buy in, you know, the bond market going to crap. And people looking for yields and the money printing. There's just too many things that make it impossible for this not to go up. and, you know, I don't know.

I lost my train to thought that for a second. Yeah, you know, I'm just, like I said, all night, I'm bullish as hell, you know, like I can't believe the price isn't going up faster, to be honest. You know, the exchange rate to crappy fiat dollars because they're just going in the toilet. So, I don't know. And there's so much fiat that, and just value in general that can go into Bitcoin. there's like 80 trillion in cash like around the world like 100 trillion in stocks like 281 trillion in real estate um like 11 trillion in gold there is like when we when we were talking about how early we are like

bitcoin's only 1 trillion and all those other numbers like they have like all that money in stocks like how much was it? It was like a hundred trillion globally in stocks. Like a lot of that's held by people who would rather probably just hold the money and not take on the risk of investing. You know, when it comes to gold, a lot of people don't want to hold a shiny rock. They would rather just, you know, have it on their phone or, you know, a hardware wallet or, you know, I think some people will keep their Bitcoin in a bank just because they're not ready for personal responsibility and like, holding their own money that way. But like all these other stores of stores of value have flaws in them.

And Bitcoin just embraces like all the aspects of good money and more. And it's just like the perfect store of value. So I think over time like those trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars are just going to flow right into Bitcoin. Yeah. It all gets siphoned away, right? Like it's just who figures it out the quickest to make those moves? Ben, you know, I think.

Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, no, no, you go, you go. I was just going to say, you know, I suspect a lot of these models are probably going to get invalidated because of the behavior difference that we're seeing in the market participants this time around. And then also we have the derivatives market, which has never been around in any previous cycle. And, you know, I'm sure everybody's familiar with, you know, Preston Pish has been talking like crazy about the contango. And that's super bullish because it's basically like a second halving event. Yeah, 100%. I think people don't realize how

or are forgetting how quickly shit can move when it really gets frothy, when things really get moving. Like the move last bull run in 2017, it was, it took forever to hit 10K it felt like because we kept on getting close and close. But once we decisively broke that,

in two weeks were at 20K. And so I think that, especially with the types of buyers that are coming in, I think this shit can move pretty damn fast. And I think that when we see, because I remember I was working OTC in 2017 when all of this was happening. And I remember the day of the all time high, I'm sitting in this little office. there are shoulder to shoulder people that all have literally stacks of cash just like tens of thousands of dollars there must have been half a million dollars

sitting in this office just held in the hands of individuals the bank across the street had to call head office to get more cash because they were drained from all of the people going into the bank taking out cash and coming across the street to the OTC desk to pick up Bitcoin, but then also a ton of shitcoins. And it was at that point when everybody was like, this is it. It's hyper-bitcoinization.

Everything is going to take over. There's no looking back. And that's when it flopped. And I think maybe we haven't quite escaped that yet, especially when I look at the shit-cornery that's still going on. I think we're still doomed for cycles. but those cycles are an absolute gift, right? Because once you've seen it once,

it's literally just a cheat sheet for life. You know exactly what plays out if you see that top happen and it come down. You know exactly how to handle the following three, four years leading up to that, which is spend as little as possible, spend less than you make and just stack sats like crazy. If it's not nailed down, sell it.

Like you know, You know how to handle it. And so, yeah, I think that we could easily see, I agree, you're like 300K sounds at this point to many of us, conservative. To some people in the outside world, it sounds insane. But I think that's why we see it go way crazier than that. I think it goes above that and then all of a sudden it doubles from that in a very short period of time. And that's when you see everybody going, oh, it's hyper-bitquinization. It's all here.

It's all going to happen. And then it doesn't. And then we have to wait until next time. A big different time here, though, than when you were working on the over the OTC counter. I mean, the amount of new Bitcoin being produced is cut in half. I mean, we have corporations like microsat. I think this is kind of a different world than it was then. So I think Will could be right.

I'm not predicting that high, but I think Will could be right. And it could be even so high. They have to know that everybody's scared to say it because we'll sound like idiots. It could be. I lean towards, and I think Jim alluded to this a little bit, maybe unwittingly, but everything comes down to actual humans making actual decisions. And actual humans tend to be, while they'll have more restraints in the confines of an actual institution, there's still emotions that play there.

And I mean, we've seen it play out with a couple treasuries or one in particular when we saw that double spend fud and one of these companies just dumped their entire position. They spent millions on Bitcoin and they were celebrating that they sold it for a $200,000 profit, which was hilarious. But I think we do see a bit of that. I do think it will be muted comparatively to last time. but who knows? I have really no idea. This is all speculation, but yeah,

I don't know if anybody has any final thoughts there. I'm going to start rounding this out, but I'll just do a quick final thoughts from everybody. Maybe I'll just go in order Gary, Jim, Nick, Will, any final things that you want to put in here? Gary, anything you have? Yeah, I want to go over something real quick that Nick said that I think is real important.

Nick, I believe you said something about how a lot of people, will get into Bitcoin with banks because they'll want someone taking care of it for him. And I think that's a really big thing that not many people are paying attention to. As a society, most of us are used to someone taking care of our money. You know, we quit hiding it under mattresses long, long ago and start trusting banks. No matter how much they screw us, you know, we still kept putting it in banks, you know. So I think when banks start actually offering to store Bitcoin, which, you know, I don't think banks are going out of business.

I think there's a lot of smart guys with a lot of money there. And I think they're going to adapt. And I think they're going to start selling and storing Bitcoin at their facilities and charging bigger fees than you could do themselves. But I think there are so many people that would take advantage to that market that would buy Bitcoin from banks that the banks would hold them. And they felt like they were doing a safety deposit box type with their Bitcoin. So I think that's a big move. But I think we're in the bullish time I've ever seen. I agree with you.

That time in 2017, when it went from 10,000 to 19 was like two weeks every day. You know, you were up another 10%. But I think we haven't seen anything yet, though. I mean, there's so many things that can happen that we haven't seen anything yet and anything can happen. But I don't know. I feel like the big one's coming, Martha. I love it. Jim, how about you? Any final thoughts on anything today?

Well, as I've been saying all night, I'm super bullish, very excited. It's frustrating because it takes longer than I wanted to. You know, I want to retire. I want to be able to live off my stack. I hear people talk all the time and they're never going to sell. I think that's a little silly, you know, you can sell at a rate where you'll never deplete your stack if you start at the right time in life. and you can still leave tons to your family, you know.

Why not enjoy it? You know, I fully expect to whoop it up at some point. So I wanted to go up quick so I could just start traveling and enjoying my life a little more. But, yeah, I guess the only other thing I want to say, you know, I go by surfer gym because I identify as a surfer since I'm 13. And I'm fortunate enough to be very involved with a project here on Long Island called the Long Island Surf Park. A good friend of mine since high school decided we need a surf park on Long Island. So for the past six years, we've been working on it.

And I built a test tank based on the metrics given to us by the pool designer. And we run little mini waves and test it out and make sure it's going to work good. And it's been a fun experience. We have land. We have site plan approval. And we are waiting on permits to break ground. So we're hoping by next summer we're going to have a working wave. pool on Long Island. You can go to the website right now, long Islandsurf park.com.

You can see a lot of cool 3D renderings of what it's going to look like. And it's going to be exciting. We're building what we hope is a world-class wave, at least seven feet tall, really good for even an expert surfer. And of course, we can make them really small for anybody who wants to come and learn. And my buddy, Chris, who's in charge of this whole thing, he's been paying attention to me, rant about Bitcoin for years. And I was happy to finally get through to him when it was around 11,000. So he's a super happy guy that he got himself some. And so he's a Bitcoiner now. So we're going to have a party of Bitcoin is at the surf park when it opens. So that's

awesome, dude. Doing Satoshi's work. I'm going to have to swing by there. I've only ever gone surfing a couple times, but maybe you can teach me a trick or too. Absolutely. Everyone's invited. Well, Jim, I'll be headed up there sooner or later when you get up to be a surfer. He started out in the Carolina coast surfing a long time ago, man. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Nick, any final thoughts for you before we wrap? Nothing really too much.

Just thanks for having me on. I love your show. This was a really dope talk. I talk to Surfer Gym all the time. I don't get to talk to Gary or Will too much, so it was really nice talking with them and get into pick their brain on some things. Yeah, I guess one thing I'd,

say is like as this bull run goes on we're going to hit like you know huge new all-time highs like we were talking about earlier and like people are going to make really life-changing money and I'd say like take a step back you know take a breather take a chill pill and like assess what you really want to do with your money don't make like really poor decisions that you're going to regret later on Nick you got a show the kindergarten come on yeah Do it. Do it. Actually, I just listened to a badass one. So I'm going to be doing some videos on Lightning soon. And I just listened to the Lightning channel set up and everything. I can't remember his name that you interviewed. Nate? Yes. Yeah. That was excellent. I loved it.

Yeah. So me last year, me and my buddy Optimist, we started this podcast called Bitcoin Kindergarten. And we did it because Jeremiah or Jeremy on Twitter, I forgot how to pronounce his name. And I feel really stupid. because I always say that. But he was talking about how he wanted, like, a radio call-in show for Bitcoin where people could just call in and just have their questions answered. And he was saying, like, hey, I think Nick and Optimus would be really good for this. And we were like, well, we can just do it for fun, do one episode and see how it goes. And we started this, like, Discord channel where people can just come in on Wednesdays and, like, ask questions.

And we got some noobs in there when we first started. and we minted some bitcorners. Anastasha on Twitter, she's probably like our most successful person. Now she's like a toxic maximalist. And we've had some other good people come in, ask all their questions. And now they're maximalists.

They buy Bitcoin and their life's better. And right now what we do is like every other week, we have like a pro from Coinbeast come on. So the episode you watch with Nate, a pro from Coinbeast. is like they have like a certain expertise and you know some field like so we had denver bitcoin come on and like just smash mining fud we had um two feet come on and talk about like bitcoin taxes and you know like how to how to avoid them and stuff and then we had mate come on

and talk about lightning so after that we just kind of opened the floor and everyone else can talk and just ask their questions and just you know share their thoughts on things um we've got like 20 to 30 people show up every single week. So it's a pretty lively show. And yeah, if you're interested, just follow at BTC kindergarten on Twitter and then join the Discord. And yeah, we'll see that. And what was going to be one show is now what, 80? Yeah, something like that. Someone's been a year. Yeah, we've been doing. I'm pretty much always there on Wednesdays. That's why Nick and I talk all the time. I just love talking Bitcoin. So, you know, it's a Wednesday night. What else am I doing? Hang out with the guys on Discord, you know.

Everybody go check out Bitcoin Kindergarten. Honestly, if you haven't been in there, if you haven't listened to like the audio podcast version, just go find it wherever you can. It's a great listen. And it's great to be part of the chat too. So, yeah, check them out. And then finally, we'll toss it to Will.

Any final thoughts for the evening, dude? Yeah, so first of all, I just wanted to say, it was really nice talking to you, Gary. And Jim, you know, this is the interesting perspective that I don't always get to hear. And it's awesome to see, you know, you don't need to get everything, but you just need to know enough, right? And so some things stick with certain generations, other things stick with others. And it's awesome to see the things that stuck with you guys and what really, you know, made you guys rock Bitcoin. So that was really cool for me to kind of hear your guys thought process.

And Nick, you know, it was good chatting with you, man. I know we don't keep in touch too much, but it's always good to hear from another fellow zoomer over here. If we're showing stuff, I just wanted to throw this out of life for anybody listening. Next week, Pomp and I, Anthony Pompiliano and I are starting a Bitcoin research and analytics. You call it a firm or whatever you want to call it, but we're going to start putting out kind of retail and investment grade Bitcoin analytics starting next week. and we're going to kind of see where it goes, but if you're interested in that, I'm sure myself and Pomp will probably be posting something about it within the next week. So check that out.

And for anybody listening, you know, like Nick said over the next year, you're going to see a huge appreciation in your spending power. And just stay focused on the long term, right? Keep that low time preference. We're all in this for the long term. And we have a rare opportunity to, like we had mentioned earlier, We're at the beginning of that S curve and we can build generational wealth here. All you have to do is just hold.

I think the difficult part is not holding through 30% downturns. I think the difficult part of holding is holding when your stack goes up 10x. That's when you really get tested as a holder rather than holding through the downturns. And so just understand what you really have here. You have a piece of Manhattan real estate in 1600 and hold strong to that. But yeah, thank you guys so much. I'll shut up. But thank you guys so much.

And this was really fun. I don't know if I agree with you on that because I've seen 10x and I'm not close to selling. Hey, can I just say one thing? Will, for anybody like your parents or anybody, their generation, same with you, Nick. If they're wondering, you know, this is for kids, this is, you know, I'm too old for, whatever, they might be thinking. My DMs are open. I'm sure Gary would be happy to talk to any of these. older guys, you know, we've got the same decades of life on this planet. We can relate to a lot of

the same things. We were lied to about all the same things for all those years. You know, so it's really hard to turn that around. Decades of indoctrination, you know, it took me months. I watched Bitcoin go from under 1,000 to almost 3,000. And I was like, no, it's running away from me. It's getting expensive, you know, because I was just so unsure. It took so long to really think it through, months of study, study, study, because I had nobody to talk to. There was no boomers I could go and DM. So tell anybody that's curious, you know, reach out to us older guys. I'd be more than happy to help anybody try to understand it. So. Thanks so much, Jim. And I think I think you bring up a really good point here that this will be a whole other conversation, so I'll keep it short. But just the fact that, you know,

you guys have always grown up, like you said, in this incentive structure with inflation, and you've been taught to think in this way that inflation is, you know, part of our monetary policy and central bankers are essential to our economy. I think for the younger people, especially that we've grown up with technology first and foremost, but also that we're coming up and we're saying, oh, there's this traditional system and this new system. Well, obviously this one's better. It's not even a thought for us, right? But you guys have had to reverse the train of thought that you've had your whole life and then go into a new. So it's a completely different dynamic there. So thanks so much for that, Jim. Yeah, anytime, man. I want to convert everybody, man. I'd like

my whole generation to get it. Some people will never well, but it doesn't matter what generation you are, though, really. No, true. I talk to the kids that are 25 and they don't know what Bitcoin is. You know, so it's not, it's not. Maybe it's more apt to be seen on boomers because they're the ones that didn't grow up with technology so they can't even hardly use their phone except the flashlight. Hey, Gary, how about this angle, which one of the things I'm really excited about. Here we are on a call with these two young guys, right? For the rest of our lives, we're friends with these guys if we want to be.

Like, I don't know, I feel like my circle of friends is going to grow with all these younger people younger than me that are going to keep this thing going that I get to hang out with for the rest of my life, watch them prosper. They watch me prosper. You know, like we uplift each other. It's awesome, right? No, it's terrible. It's terrible.

It's terrible. Here's what happens. Here's what happens. I can tell you, because I've been through this. I've been into tech since 96 when I started my first e-commerce site. You go hang out with your friends your own age. I go to a party with 66-year-olds, 67-year-olds. I got no one I can talk to anything about.

Nothing. So I can't even talk to them. They might go, oh, what do you think is better? real or you know so and because you're hanging out with young people you're like thought patterns and what you find interesting way is way different than everybody your age so every time we leave a party my wife goes you had a terrible time didn't you and i'm going yeah and 20 years ago i'd have had a great time with all these same people so actually it's terrible it ruins it ruins your night life unless you want to want to go hang out with 25 and 35 year olds every night which i don't have a problem with it's just my wife doesn't get into hanging out with young kids. No, I don't, I didn't mean it that way. I just meant that this ecosystem. She yelled that, she yelled that wasn't true.

We're at the older end of the scale and the good part is that there will be so many people coming in, young and old that are younger than us, that will give us tons of new people to relate to and hang out with. I mean, your conference is a perfect example. You mix a whole bunch of people together,

like-minded people, and brand-new Lifelong friendships have developed. And, you know, it may not be the people of our generation, but I feel the same closeness to some of these younger guys than I have to lifelong friends because we see eye to eye, you know, it's awesome. I agree. I'm just saying when you have to, when you go to an event that's all your peer group, age one.

That's totally different. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. I don't know Nick and Will for a long time. I got at least 20 years left. Yeah, yeah. They talk about the, you know, like the last game, the last basketball.

basketball game. I'm clueless. I don't know who plays. I don't know who plays. I don't know what teams are in first. It's not part of my world. I don't care. You know, so I'm standing there. Like a lot of, God, yeah, when somebody's going to talk about Bitcoin so I can try me. No, it's not going to happen unless I bring it up. But I get you. We need, we need the zoomers to to host a party, an absolute banger. And then then you need to extend an invite to both Gary and Jim here. And I need to get back to college first for that, man. Yeah. Guys, I want to say thank you so much for coming on.

We had a why are we bullish pump. We're at like 579 right now. Yeah, I saw that. Go team. I really enjoyed having you guys all on. This is always the best part of my week. Everybody that's watching, I have all of their Twitter profiles. If you want to go give them a follow, they'll be in the show notes.

And yeah, that's that. Guys, I'm going to cut your audio and video now. But again, thank you so. much for being on the show and you're all welcome back at any time. Enjoy it. Thanks guys. Thank you. Nice meeting you guys. See you. Bye, guys.

Take care. All right. So everybody watching, thank you so much for being here. As always, always the best part of my Friday. I love chatting Bitcoin with a bunch of other Bitcoiners. As always, hit like, subscribe, share, all of those things help so much. They help get this and content in front of more people. Thank you all for being in the chat. If you want to help with the show in another way. You can hit up the sponsors I mentioned previously down below. Lennon, Kobo, BitRefill, Bill Fottle, all linked in the show notes. And if you really loved what you saw, if I can pull it up here in a second, you can always hit me up with a Bitcoin

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